The City's Petty Policy PLUS Birney Imes Asks: What is Columbus' Mother Tree?

Power doesn’t just show up in big scandals; it hides in procurement rules, town halls, and the shade over a park bench. We start with Columbus’ new requirement that newspapers secure audits or expert affidavits to qualify for city legal ads. On paper that sounds like due diligence. In context—coming after public complaints about coverage—it feels like a pressure valve on the free press. When the government can target one business, they can target any business. 

Then we pivot to the refreshing tone change from Columbus Municipal School District, specifically a fresh leadership style from new Superintendent Craig Chapman

Then, retired publisher and Columbus tree board member Birney Imes brings stories of replanting storm-hit parks, building a native-species arboretum along the Riverwalk and designating a majestic centuries-old bald cypress as the city’s “Mother Tree.” Beyond beauty, trees are infrastructure: cooler streets, soaked-up stormwater, cleaner air, calmer nerves. Partnerships, small grants, and community hands can turn a walk into a living field guide and a playground back into a refuge.

If you care about press freedom, school stability, and the everyday design of a livable city, this one brings receipts and roots. 

Transcript

Opening Banter & Episode Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:01

I don't know what he has come up with today to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

I'm not asking you to hide anything. You know, no put it out there. Let the people see it.

SPEAKER_06 0:10

I've never not worked in a hospital working department.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

You can't argue with anybody when they're putting facts in your face. Zach, that's a hard question.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

I have no answer for it. From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch. This is Between the Headlines.

SPEAKER_05 0:29

This week on Between the Headlines, when is a paper not really a paper? The City of Columbus has some thoughts on that, as do we. Also, on the move from magnet schools to grade span schools, the Columbus Municipal School District has had a town hall, and there's things that we need to know about that. And in the studio today, none other than Mr. Bernie Imes. Retirement looks different for everyone, so your plan should be built around you. For over 40 years, Financial Concepts has helped people create retirement strategies that fit their lives. Our team in Columbus takes the time to understand your goals and build a plan that works for you. Wherever you are in your journey, we're ready to help. We plan retirement. Financial Concepts is a registered investment advisor. Benton's Maintenance Mechanical makes easy work out of plumbing, electrical, heating, and air conditioner problems. You can book an appointment by phone or online, and rest assured they will show up at the appointed time. Call Bentons at 662-657-2583 or visit them online at BentonsInc.com. That is BentonsINC.com. This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, a bank headquartered right here in Columbus, Mississippi. That means your banking decisions aren't made hundreds of miles away by someone who doesn't know you. They're made here locally by bankers who know your name and care about the community. At Bank First, we're more than bankers. We're your neighbors. Whether we're cheering in the stands, catching up at a local pancake breakfast, or celebrating milestones across our community, we're part of the moments that matter most. Stop by your local Bank First branch or visit BankFirstFS.com to learn more. Bank First is a member FDIC and Equal Housing lender, Bank NMLS 454063. All right. Welcome back, welcome back. Good to see you today, Mr. Zach. I um I have read that there's a little bit of a can I say the word feud going on? It's always something.

SPEAKER_04 2:38

Always something. I, you know, it's it's definitely it's definitely petty.

What Is A Paper Of General Circulation

SPEAKER_05 2:44

Petty. Now we're all right. Let's let's let's back up here. We're talking about this deal with the hurdles that the City of Columbus has put forward uh basically to say you have to prove that you're a paper and that you're a legitimate paper. Right. A paper of general circulation. General circulation before uh you are eligible for us to put public bidding advertisements in your paper.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

No, no, for you to bid on the legal ads. So the the uh city, county, all the public bodies, they'll run certain ads for certain things and have to they're required by law to run those as legals. And these are the ones that are going to be the small print, it's the resolutions and the ordinances and the and the job postings and the special meetings and different things like that.

SPEAKER_05 3:31

But they're in there for good reason because you've got contractors out there who can probably do most of these jobs or some of these jobs, and if they don't know about them, then you've got an oligarchy of contractors who could potentially monopolize them.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

That's one of the things. And and just putting it in the public square of the city's business and what's going on, that's part of the accountability for public bodies to have the requirement to publish these in a newspaper, in a print newspaper of general circulation. And and that's the law. Okay, so let's just let's just kind of bag up because it's kind of it's kind of technical. To be a general circulation newspaper, there are several qualifications. You've got to have broad paid circulation in a particular in this case in the city. You've got to print at least once a week. A certain amount of your printed space has to be dedicated to you know news of general interest or general interest content instead of advertising. And it goes on for for a bit, but there's two general circulation papers in Columbus. Okay. And it's and it's been that way since the packet opened. There's the dispatch, there's the packet. We're five days a week, the packet is weekly. Uh by any metric, both of those papers are general circulation, newspapers.

SPEAKER_05 4:54

They're both for sale at the gas station.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

Correct. And they're both being bought enough by a diverse enough uh portion of the uh population to where you know people generally know what's in them.

New Bid Rules And Their Origins

SPEAKER_05 5:06

Got it. So why then all of a sudden are we going to say, you know, uh we we've got to have standards here and we've got to make sure that eligibility requirements are met interest.

SPEAKER_04 5:18

Before we go into the why, let's go into the what actually is happening right now. So the city is now per a split vote Tuesday, uh going to require newspapers, the dispatch and the packet if we want to bid on uh the city's lit printing the city's legal ads, which is an annual bidding process. So they open it up the way they've done it before, it's like, all right, it's time to bid on these legals, and so the dispatch sends in theirs, the packet sends in theirs, and the lowest bid wins by law. Well, now they're saying, okay, well, you got to prove your general circulation, and in order to do that, you're either gonna have to get an independent audit, or you're gonna have to get an independent journalism expert to sign an affidavit saying that you're a a a general circulation newspaper. First of all, and in fairness, because we're gonna criticize this decision, or I am, it needs to be noted on the front end that they can legally require this. There's statutes that Jeff Turner to city attorney is citing. There's attorney general's opinions that specifically say you can do this. You can vet these papers and you can vet these papers in these ways.

SPEAKER_05 6:36

But all of a dead gum sudden.

SPEAKER_04 6:38

Right. All of a dead gum sudden. And and this it's really not all that sudden. So let's let's go back a year. It's the election. Remember the election last year? Boy, oh boy, don't we? All right, so first of all, let me say this, and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna criticize the packet. The packet's not here to defend itself, uh, and I'm I'm not gonna make qualitative arguments for or against any organization uh in our business. However, I will say this. They do things a little differently than we do. Well, sir. Um their standards for what is publishable differs from the dispatch's uh standards for what is publishable.

SPEAKER_05 7:26

Yeah. I mean everybody listening to the podcast today knows that. Right. Uh if you were to generalize, you may not say it, but I'll say it. People might read the packet to see who's going to jail. They might read the dispatch to see who voted for what in the council meeting.

Last Year’s Bids And Political Backdrop

SPEAKER_04 7:43

Right. The packet and the dispatch have exercised different standards on sourcing for stories, how anonymous sourcing works. We have very stringent must-do this. They have different standards on that. And okay, so you can make an argument as three members of the last council did publicly, uh, there was dissatisfaction with the way they did business. And so in their turns, Joseph Mickens, Stephen Jones, who's the mayor now, and Pierre Beard, all three made public complaints at city council meetings for the way that the packet was covering issues that involved the city generally, issues that involved them. The fake news media. Well, I can hear that. They took issues with accuracy or what they saw as accuracy issues. And then they also took issues with stories printing in the packet that involved them or their ward or their project or whatever. And uh they weren't seeming to get an opportunity to speak to that story. And that those were the specific complaints that they were making. So, long about that time, the bid process last year comes up. And this is all well documented, happened in public, we printed it, the whole bit. The packet had the lower bid of the two of us, so by law they should win that bid. Well, there were council members that didn't want to give the packet that bid and said as much and wanted to give us the contract instead. Jeff Turnage at that time said, Well, that's illegal. We can't do that. And it was like, Well, then let's reject the bids and get them to rebid. And the hope of that was that we would now knowing what the bids were, we would either undercut or match the packet's bid. And they would have a legal basis to give us the contract. And yes, it was because of what they were printing in the packet. I don't care what they say now, it was because of what they were printing in the packet. Or at least you could I mean the circumstantial evidence there is overwhelming that it was what they were printing in the packet. And um the dispatch didn't change its bid. So we came in again, we had the higher of the two bids, sending the same number. Yes, send in the same number, packet gets the contract. And so this is an effort to keep the packet from getting that contract, or to make it harder for the packet to get that contract.

SPEAKER_05 10:17

That was definitely um hearing you say that that's a high road approach because the dispatch could have gone in there knowing what they had bid last time and undercut that, right potentially won it. But that's just not uh the way the dispatch wanted to go.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

And I mean Look, I I'm not interested in carrying any water for the packet, and business is business, and yes, we're competitors, but I mean right is right and wrong is wrong. And this is putting it in sports terms, this is a helmet to helmet targeting the city of the packet. I mean, the the the public seeing the the newspaper whine about new standards for bidding. This isn't an across the board thing. The city isn't saying, okay, well, we're re-evaluating our uh bidding process across the board and we're gonna start, you know, looking at different things right here. This is very specific to this industry, and they're making it pretty clear that it's very specific to whether the packet is a general circulation newspaper. And they're trying to mince words and question the definition of a general circulation paper to where they can oust the packet out of that definition.

SPEAKER_05 11:30

Slippery, slippery slippery.

Audits, Affidavits, And Press Freedom

SPEAKER_04 11:32

So let's just say that they're that the packet or the dispatch goes out and gets an audit or an expert. First of all, you know, that's going to cost money. And these ads, we're talking about these ads, it's this is not a bunch of money for these ads, it's less than$10,000 that these ads generate in a year. And so you're asking these newspapers to go to probably at least as much or more expense than than the than it's worth in revenue to do this. And the city has the right on the other end to accept an affidavit or not. Well, we don't like your expert, so we're not gonna accept your expert as your expert. Well, we don't like how you did your audit, so we're not even gonna open your bid. It just opens a lot of doors for the city government to say to a business, we're not gonna do business with you, we're going to make, we're not gonna make this a fair fight, you're gonna remember who we are now when you're writing about us. And I'm gonna tell you that is dangerous. And two wrongs can't don't make a right. So the city can be mad about what the packet's ethics are, what the path packet's coverage is, but it doesn't give them permission to use government mechanisms to punish a business. That's that's bad government. And I have been on the business end of this with the city of Columbus, so I know of what I speak. And um I I won't again go into all of that again. That's that's it, man. Quit being petty. This is not a middle school. This uh the city is not run by 14-year-old girls. Like this is a situ or just 14-year-olds, period. Uh this is a situation where everybody in it is an adult. Government's supposed to work the way it's supposed to, and you're not supposed to single out businesses to punish them because you're unhappy with what they do. And especially when you're talking about the freedom of the press, you're not supposed to single out these guys and punish them. You can disagree with, you disagree with them publicly. I didn't think there was anything wrong last year when Mickens and Jones and Beard said, if you're writing about me, call me. I thought that that was a perfectly legitimate complaint, if I'm being honest. But that's different than saying that is different than saying because you didn't and I'm in power, I'm fixing to mess you up. And, you know, Jones, when I'm talking to him, says, well, this isn't what this is about. It's not about, you know, this is about the fact that we're just trying to do everything right and above board because we got this auditor, state auditors investigation going on, et cetera, et cetera. But in the same, without taking a breath, he says, but you can't do these types of things and lie about us and expect to be rewarded on the other end. So he's saying both of those things without taking a breath in between. Did Jim Burnage squirm when he said that? He wasn't in the room. But but I guess it's murky, murky water. But but look, and I mean, and I get it. I get that you want to be treated fairly. Well, who does? So treat people fairly. Do unto others. We we quote Bible verses a lot in city government in Columbus. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you, is the golden rule for a reason. And I think that uh I mean, I know Stephen knows that rule, I know Jeff Turnage knows that rule, I know the city council knows that rule, so apply it. That's what you expect. Is so if you expect it, then give it.

SPEAKER_05 15:09

Well, to their credit, Levine Harris and Jason Spears voted nay on this issue, and Jason.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

The reason's very similar to what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 15:19

Yeah, I mean, he said uh basically this is a bad precedent, and we don't want to go down this road. Zach, I've got to say one thing about this. If the mayor or any member of City Council wants to stand behind the microphone and say the packet is a crap paper, don't buy it, they lied about us. That's freedom of speech. They have every right to do that.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

I agree with that.

SPEAKER_05 15:43

But when they pick up their pen, right, and they begin to enact a policy that says by law they're gonna have to do this or that or the other, that right there is bullying, and that right there is when you get into really, really shaky legal ground. And that is the crux of what we're talking about today. It's not the it's not this whole notion of um, well, they just don't like the packet and they're picking on it. No, they are setting the standard for something that's really gonna hurt anybody that doesn't agree with the city. You can't use the arm of the law to pick on small businesses.

SPEAKER_04 16:23

Right. You can't. Anything that they can get away with doing to one paper, they can do to the other paper. Anything that they can get away with doing targeting a specific business punitively, they can do it to your business too. That is kind of the way that all of this works, and I don't really understand why people forget that so easily. They look and they see and they're like, you know, people are looking at us like, well, y'all are the beneficiaries of this if if it's not about the dispatch, it's about everybody. Yeah, it's about the point. And the point is if the government can use its mechanisms to specifically target and punish a business for for any reason, then they can do it to all of us.

Big Picture: Government Retaliation Risks

SPEAKER_05 17:11

Zach, I want to change gears and talk now about something that is near and dear to uh the parents of the city of Columbus. The winds of change are nigh upon us. We've got uh formerly one, two, three, four, five, six schools, uh one of them, Franklin Academy, is now closed. Fairview will be closed, and the story is that the City of Columbus Municipal School District on the early elementary level is moving from a magnet system where you've got different emphases. Fairview was the aerospace place, Stokesbeard, visual and performing arts, cooks. You went there, uh Cook Elementary, if you uh were into technology and communication and sale, as I understand it, health and human services with an emphasis on leadership. Interesting stuff, but I'm not sure how effective it was. Long story short, now we're going to a more traditional, these two grades are at this place to look to just kind of lay it out for folks. You've got pre-K and first would be at Stokesbeard, second and third grade at Cook, fourth grade at Sale, and fifth and sixth grade at Hunt Hunt. All right. So um there was this meeting, and did any new information come up last night about this change that's coming?

SPEAKER_04 18:39

A couple nights ago, but not no, uh it's it's the these are more listening sessions, town hall sessions that uh new superintendent Craig Chapman is running. Uh he's gonna do it at at different schools. He did at Fairview this week. Um and it's just facing the parents, listening to their concerns, answering their questions, and um but before we go into uh kind of why that is refreshing, they passed some time ago, they they passed this bond,$36 million bond that they were doing these renovations at different campuses, and part of that plan was that they were going to close Franklin and close Fairview and do this grade span in the remaining elementary schools. And, you know, some of that's cost cutting, some of that is due to, you know, enrollment loss in the schools and trying to justify the buildings that you have open. And part of it had to do with the condition of the buildings. They kept the the three elementary schools that they're keeping for uh the pre-K4 span is uh that need the least work. Yeah, the ones that need the least work, and the other two were just gonna be it just wasn't gonna be cost effective to try to keep them going and and and get them up to code and et cetera, et cetera. So and that was all explained-ish back then. Um however, now we're coming up on it. They c closed Franklin last year, uh, moved the fifth graders and sixth graders into Hunt when Hunt opened up. Um Fairview's gonna close at the end of this year. So next year, this is gonna be full grade span district wide, it's gonna be um uh fully implemented. There are concerns about you know what this is gonna mean for kids adjusting to a new uh new environment.

SPEAKER_05 20:38

Yeah, there's a lot more peers now.

Shift To School Grade-Span Model

SPEAKER_04 20:41

And there's gonna be you know, there's concerns about how that's gonna affect student achievement, you know, benchmark scores, accountability ratings for the schools, uh, you know, d mental and emotional health of the students. Um I'm gonna tell you something. By all accounts, Craig Chapman, uh he's been in the district forever, but new to the full-time superintendent, untethered by the interim tag, came prepared to that meeting, he answered their questions honestly, he was forthright, he wasn't afraid of questions, and if so and you know, he's going back and forth with one of these parents for several minutes, and and you know, some of these parents were coming at it from a pure curiosity, some of them were understanding what was going on and just asking follow-up questions. Some of these people were mad or scared or worried, and uh they were definitely critical questions.

SPEAKER_05 21:37

They had the mama's tone behind it.

SPEAKER_04 21:39

Yeah, buddy. And uh Mr. Chapman, to his credit, chested up to every single one of them, treated every one of these people with respect, and told them the truth. Now that is refreshing. Let me tell you why that's refreshing. When they were doing this bond, this was back in the Ellis era, there was a concerted effort with the School district leadership that Ellis was a part of. They knew they wanted to consolidate campuses, but they really didn't want that information getting out before the vote. Uh they knew what work they were going to try to do, but they weren't really willing to commit to it on paper because maybe they wanted to change that later after they got that money. Superintendent would be up in front of people. The one I remember, there was an exchange club meeting where uh Ellis didn't even show up and they sent the CFO of the school district up there, and it was very clear that she had been told this is what you can say. I was there and I started asking questions that weren't on her script, and you could tell, like you could tell she one knew the answer, and you could tell she couldn't say it publicly. And this was during a campaign for hey, school district patrons, will you give us thirty-six million dollars to where we can do something that we're not gonna define for you? Ellis, when when when he was pressed, he would do his PowerPoint presentation, and when he was given follow-up questions, he wasn't always prepared, and he wasn't ever really particularly interested in looking somebody in the eye and telling them a truth that they didn't want to hear. They were sticking to that script, sticking to that script, and we had to continue to press them hard before finally, maybe a week or two before the election, he finally sat down with us, acknowledged that they were going to consolidate these schools, bond or no bond, and that this is what they were gonna do with the bond if they got it. So we had to wrestle them to the ground to get them to tell us that back then. Now you've got a guy who is in an environment where people are worried, people are scared, people are are having a hard time understanding, and people who haven't stayed plugged in or just now learning about, oh God, you're gonna close bear for you? What are we gonna do? And uh he's looking them in the eye, he's chessing up to them, he's telling them the truth whether they like it or not, and he's doing it in a respectful way that that that is getting the right narrative out there. And if he doesn't know the answer to the question, he's going and looking it up.

Town Hall Takeaways And Leadership Style

SPEAKER_05 24:29

And so You can't beat that. You cannot. What I am hearing is a description of two different styles of leadership. Correct. Uh the first one being let us concoct a plan and put it together and feed it to the peasantry when they are ready to receive it. Okay. Right. Uh the other is okay, let's put together a plan, let's get some public input, and um you know, it may not be well received, but we're gonna pitch it out there. We're gonna let them hammer us because we're strong, we're confident, and we're accountable to them. And we're accountable, and we're gonna choose to let it be that way intentionally. And you know what? Nine times out of ten, the latter ends up being the better way to go. Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

And you're not gonna ever have uh consensus. I mean, after that meeting, there were people who were going on Facebook talking about sending their kids to private school, whatever. People acting like they've heard this for the first time, whatever. But from what I understand from our people who were there, from our reporter who reported on it, there were people who came in with real concerns who felt like at the end that their questions had been answered. Their their their anxieties weren't completely assuaged, but they felt they felt better about the situation and the direction it was going in because they felt like they got an answer to their damn question. And that matters. Yes. And good on Mr. Chapman for for doing that.

SPEAKER_05 26:04

You know, this is a lesson to be learned. I mean, it it doesn't just apply to school leadership. I mean, whether you are the mayor, whether you are the chief of police, give yourself an occasional public opinion bath. Okay? Hear what the people have to say, let them holler at you a little bit. Yeah. Let them get a little irate and ugly. They'll take an aspirin and get over it. Yeah. Or not, and business will go on, but the people will be better served as a result of it. Leadership 101, you heard it here in Catfish Alley Studio with Zach and David. After the break, special guest, Mr. Bernie Imes.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yeah. The Good for Business Podcast features interviews, tips, and tricks from owners, operators, and innovators. Here are the inspiring stories of growth and life lessons from guests in Mississippi and around the world. Hosted by entrepreneur, fundraiser, and real estate broker Colin Krieger, the podcast is based right here in the Golden Triangle community.

SPEAKER_05 27:03

Since 1935, Lowndes Farm Supply has supported the Greater Columbus Trade Area with products and knowledge for the farm, ranch, and garden markets, along with lawn, hunting supplies, outdoor clothing, and boots. Go check them out at 69 Co-op Road in Columbus. We are feeling the burn here in Catfish Alley studio today. Pleased to have as our special guest Mr. Bernie Imes III, who is the retired publisher of the Dispatch and now member of the Columbus Tree Board. Welcome aboard today. I gotta say, I did not realize that we had a tree board in Columbus. I did not know that.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

That's too frequently the case. Uh hope hopefully that that will change. And uh I do thank you, thank you guys for the opportunity of being here and and talking about something I really love. Um before I start, though, I want to have you guys thinking about something. Is there a tree in your life? Is there a mother tree in your life that you played under, you climbed as a kid, uh, you sit under with your children now? Uh I think most of us do have a mother tree. Um So I want y'all to think about that.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

Oh, I'll answer that question right now. My uh at uh my grandparents' farm growing up, there was a it it was a tree of a sort. It was a big hollybush kind of thing. And we would crop make me and my sister would crawl under there and uh, you know, make it a fort or make it a hiding place or whatever. And uh my my parents recently moved out there to that farm and they expanded the house, and uh, in doing so they had to cut down the tree. And when my sister and I went to see the house for the first time, the very first thing that we noticed was that tree was gone, and we were just like tearing up is like, look at how big this kitchen. It was like you cut down the olive tree.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

What about you, David?

Community Trust Through Straight Answers

SPEAKER_05 29:09

Well, my front yard has an enormous oak that's been there probably 70 years, and and you know, I do everything I can just to think about okay, how can I keep this healthy because I have no idea how my yard would look without that thing. It's just been there forever.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

My grandma, my beloved grandma, when my parents were building our house in the well, in the early 50s on Chickasaw Drive, she planted two rows of pine trees along the road to kind of buffer the house from the road. By the time I came along, the trees were grown, and we had a great neighborhood, a bunch of kids, the Waters Kids, the Brislands, the Jollies. And our house is where we met to play, but but we had a neighborhood bully, and the only thing that that neighborhood bully was scared of climbing a tree. And we would climb up in those pines and we could go from one tree to another. Like a squirrel running from a dog. Like a squirrel running from a dog. And uh, you know, the those trees were uh, you know, our our refuge. When I when I had kids, we we used to go I used to take my children when they were young down to the W. This is before Clyder Rent built that College Street entrance, and we had just epic games of freeze tag down there on the front campus of the W. But there's this huge magnolia right there in the corner of 11th and college that's since been trimmed up, but we could all climb up in that tree and be in that tree at one time.

SPEAKER_05 30:46

Is that the one that somebody ran into with a car one day?

SPEAKER_03 30:49

I'd be hard. This one is behind a fence. Okay. Right there on the corner. And I think they've limbed it up.

SPEAKER_04 30:56

So so it's it's uh Well looking at it uh I guess logistically, uh I know a lot of people don't know that the tree board exists, but now that we do, what what is the function of the tree board?

SPEAKER_05 31:10

Yeah, what's their authority like?

SPEAKER_03 31:12

Well, I've got uh some legalese to I can read to you. It's the ordinance. Um let me distract you w with one story that I think is important too, uh, about trees and um I I'm really preaching the gospel here, but uh you guys know the Chinese proverb about when is the best time to plant a tree? Twenty years ago, when is the second best time to plant a tree now? Yeah. Before we married, Beth was a worked as a framer, a picture framer for Bill Baxstrom. Baxstrom had a place out on Airline Road, uh just past the Humane Society on the left. And one day Beth was going to work and the city was planting these waist-high trees all along Airline Road. And she thought, why in the world are they doing that? And if you ride out Airline Road right now, you'll know the answer to that. Uh it's a beautiful tunnel created by these gorgeous live oaks that that line it. And uh I've had so many people, it seemed like I wrote a column about it and I had so many people uh say things about that. Uh sometime later the county wanted to cut trim those trees because they couldn't get their equipment under it. And commercial heads prevail, thank goodness. I think Robert Smith, I was told, intervened, told the county they could go around by Dylan Norris and go out that way. For sure. So uh anyway, that just kind of reflects some attitudes that we have about uh well that attitude is definitely prevalent.

SPEAKER_05 32:53

I mean, you gotta have paper and you gotta have lumber to build houses, but I find it gotta have oxygen too. Yeah. Well, there's also that. And and and to your point, I just trees in Mississippi are treated like a commodity. Yeah. It is a problem. Have you seen the amount of clear cuts out there lately?

SPEAKER_03 33:13

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:14

Yeah.

Guest Intro: Bernie Imes On Trees

SPEAKER_03 33:14

Yeah. But I'm I'm we're about you know kind of preserving, protecting, uh, championing the trees that are growing downtown that we all joy enjoy that are part of this community. Uh when I was growing up, the the streets were tree-lined everywhere, and we've cut so many down. It's a tragedy.

SPEAKER_05 33:38

Uh have either of y'all been to Hilton Head in a while? Well, I always thought of Hilton Head as like there's not going to be trees, it's just gonna be golf courses everywhere and it's gonna be hot. No, it's like a jungle. There are trees everywhere, and I was told uh by a tour guide that they have a tree czar. And if you want to cut down a tree on Hilton Head Island, you have to go through her, and most of the time she says no.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Well, I think it'd be wonderful if Columbus had a tree czar. And uh and they're not gonna say we do, right? They're not gonna say no. Uh I mean they're gonna say yes sometimes. There are some trees that are and Columbus is a big prime example. We've got a lot of great trees in terrible places. If you're gonna plant a live oak, uh don't plant it up against a building because it's gonna soon outgrow that spot. Uh speaking of live oaks, if you've ever been to Ocean Springs, they build their sidewalks around their trees. They build sidewalks ramps over the trees so they don't disturb those ancient live oaks that uh you know define the city.

SPEAKER_04 34:56

Well now, so is there so is it just the downtown district that the tree board applies to or Well I'll read our mission statement that I downloaded today, uh printed out.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

It says our mission is to enrich the quality of life by promoting the benefits of trees and plants and the development of sustainable urban ecosystems through education, community planting, and maintenance.

Why Urban Trees Matter

SPEAKER_04 35:23

Okay. So if if I live on if I live on College Street and I've got a tree in my yard that I want to cut down. Right. Um Do I have to come to the tree board to get y'all's blessing?

SPEAKER_03 35:41

Uh I'm I'm not clear about that. I know uh in earlier times the city always consulted with the tree board before they cut trim trees or cut trees that are public trees. You know, on the media. Uh I don't think, you know, on private property you do. I I don't know. Um you know, it's long and short of it. But in those days, the the city and the tree board had a really good working relationship. There was a forester on the board that knew trees and would uh the city would consult, and sometimes they would take them down, sometimes they they wouldn't, and they would, you know, talk to the homeowner and say, this is really not a problem, and we need to leave this tree.

SPEAKER_05 36:30

So I'm I'm hearing that um that you're in charge of putting together an obaretum, can I say it right, uh, for the Columbus River Walk. Is that true?

SPEAKER_03 36:42

Yeah, we have three projects going underway that that that I'm really, really proud of. The board is, and these are ideas that came from board members. Uh one of which, and we did this Monday, is we wanted to replant three neighborhood parks. Um Sim Scott, Hank Aaron, and Townsend Park all got zapped by either the tornadoes in the 18 or 2019.

SPEAKER_05 37:08

2019. And it's so hot out there because there's no trees.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

There's no trees. And there were straight line winds that took care of Southside, I think, or hit one of those parks um, you know, in the early 2000s. And those tr those parks are all devoid of trees. We planted 17 trees there Monday. So that's project one that I'm real happy we've done in those those three neighborhood parks. Um one of our members, Mac Thatcher, who works for uh Mossy Oak actually, uh suggested we make an arboretum out of the riverwalk, which is such a good idea and such a simple idea. Basically, you're identifying the trees that are along that riverwalk. And uh we we'll have tags with little information about the tree and a QR code. So there's we've identified 30 different species along that walk. So hopefully that will engage people with trees and and you know and so what percentage of those 30 species are non-native, do you know? The bulk of they're all native.

SPEAKER_05 38:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

They thrive in this c climate, they support wildlife, they support birds, birds eat bugs, you know, eat insects. Uh they're just you know, yeah, we're very much on the native tree.

SPEAKER_04 38:39

Now on the river walk arboretum, uh are there going to be any trees potentially added?

The Tree Board’s Role And Mission

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Well, not uh we haven't gotten that far. But uh and another we haven't gotten that far, but uh y that's a that's a thought. Um but we're identifying native trees exclusively native trees. The third project we're we're working on, uh one of our members, Caleb Aldridge, suggested. He said Columbus needs a mother tree. And I thought, well, that's a curious thought. What what does that mean? Yeah. You know, a tree that and so uh memory glands. Yeah, what what yeah. You said that, not me, David. Uh I was walking uh our morning uh my morning walk with our uh Scottish deer hound Mary uh two days later, walking through the soccer park, and there's this massive ball cypress down there. It's about 75 yards southwest of the playground, right in the middle of the park. And I've since measured it with a friend's help, and it's 23 feet in circumference. And I talked to a forster uh later and I said, We're guessing this tree is between 300 and 500 years old. And he said, easily.

SPEAKER_05 40:03

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

So that tree witnessed the founding of Columbus, it witnessed the coming and going of the Choctaw and the Chickasaw. You know, it's just a monument there, still growing. It's got hit by lightning, and you can tell it's going in a lot of directions, but it's alive and well, you know. So unless somebody comes up with a better idea, we're gonna be able to do that. That's gonna be the mother tree.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

Okay, those are pretty cool.

SPEAKER_05 40:31

All the good fish are around the bald cypress. Yeah. But you can't plant them next to a sidewalk. They'll push that thing clean out of the ground. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:41

Now y'all got grant money for the park trees and y'all are seeking grant money for the arboretum?

SPEAKER_03 40:47

Uh yes. Uh Susan Wilder included us. There's a grant that was in the works to do a tree inventory of Friendship Cemetery. I we you know, that was something unbeknownst to me was in the works, but she and so we piggybacked onto that, and that plant that paid for the for the neighborhood trees. Um I approached the CVB and um Main Street, and they said they would help with the arboretum. And uh unbeknownst to me, the commercial dispatch ran a um editorial saying what a great idea it was. I did see the editorial, but I didn't know it was coming. And um Steve Ellis, uh Steve and his wife Kay do these barn concerts out on Mac Davis Road that are well attended, and they designate a good cause that they all their concession money goes to support this good cause. And he said, we'd like to designate the arboretum as our first good cause of the season. Okay. So right now, those are the three uh So if someone wanted to sponsor a plaque, they could do that?

SPEAKER_05 42:03

Well, we have we're not that far alone. Well keep us posted, because that sounds like a fascinating opportunity. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 42:10

And as a citizen, whether it's just from an awareness standpoint or whether it's direct engagement with the trees of the tree board in uh Columbus, what what are the best ways for for citizens to get involved with with this mission?

SPEAKER_03 42:28

Um Well, there are four vacancies on the tree board coming up. We're on a rotating basis. So you know that that's one thing is they could apply to be on the tree board. Um there are really no vehicles that I can think of at the moment. That's a good question. If if you want to get involved with trees and kind of the nurturing of them. Um but yeah, that's a good question that I can't quite answer.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

I mean, would that be would that be something that you feel like the tree board could start m promoting advocacy for once creating those vehicles and advocating?

SPEAKER_03 43:07

I think we we really want to I mean these are treasures.

Parks Replanting And Riverwalk Arboretum

SPEAKER_05 43:10

These are, you know, f treasures present day or future treasures, and I think the more awareness and the more engagement we have, they are, and I think the biggest threat, if you will, to these treasures is just quite frankly, um someone who inherits an estate and for a few thousand quick bucks chops all of grandpa's trees down. And I'm not gonna sound like a Republican saying this, but how do we combat that? Because it to me that's a problem.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

That's a different problem than what we're engaged with. I mean, you've got land and that's an asset, and you want to, you know, you've got a crop on that land, and some people see timber as a crop. And you know, but you know, the fight the Good fight that we're wanting to carry on is is here in Columbus, here in this community. The community's got so many great things going on. And I think the trees and the floor and the fauna present a subjective message to visitors about what kind of community this is. And part of that is you know, we've kept the medians on Main Street beautiful, and I think that sends a great message out there. But I think we can do more.

SPEAKER_04 44:29

Well, I had somebody one time ask me why I thought urban forestry was important. And I said, well, let me let me just tell you this. Drive east in the early morning in a town that doesn't have it and get back to me.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Go to a public park. Where are people gathering? Are they under the tree or are they out in the open?

SPEAKER_05 44:48

And if you're on a motorcycle, do you notice the temperature change when you go into a pasture versus through a wooded area? Yep.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

Is there anything you want to add, Bernie? There is something I was going to read to you. And this is legalese, but this is this is in the ordinance, uh the city ordinance, and it really touches on things. Um the intention of this uh things that are important with trees. The intention of this chapter is to aid in the stabilization of soil by the prevention of erosion and sedimentation, to reduce storm w stormwater runoff. A mature tree will intercept a thousand gallons of rainwater a year. We get about 55 inches a year. Uh but just the the leaves absorb it, I mean you know, catch the rain and the roots.

SPEAKER_05 45:42

Got a pothole? Plant a tree.

The “Mother Tree” And Local Heritage

SPEAKER_03 45:46

Uh reduces stormwater runoff and the cost associated with with therewith, and replenish groundwater supplies to aid in the removal of carbon dioxide and the generation of oxygen in the atmosphere, to provide a buffer and a screen against noise pollution, to provide protection against severe weather, to aid in the control of drainage and restoration of denuded soil. Um it goes on and on. But uh one thing I do I mention, and that this may or may not make the cut, but there's uh Nature Conservancy publishes a really good magazine. Um there was a study in Louisville, Kentucky, where they've planted in 2019, they planted 8,000 large trees over a four-mile, four-square mile area. This is in a neighborhood just south of Churchill Downs that didn't have many trees. 750 people participated, and after six years, just six years, they researchers found significantly lower levels of inflammation. The C reactive protein, I don't know what that is, but the C reactive protein that's a signal for inflammation, but huge decrease in inflammation just in that short of time, uh just from being around the trees. And they absorb pollution, uh there's just all manner of good things that they do.

SPEAKER_05 47:14

I gotta tell you, I I was privileged before your your mother passed away uh to go out there um to the estate. Uh-huh. And um just the volume of trees and the the uh diversification and the careful planning and placement.

SPEAKER_06 47:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:32

I mean, it's it's it's not willy-nilly, and it pays real dividends. So I can see how that would have fostered an appreciation for greenery. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:43

Well, one one more quick question, not sure I asked you, but uh timeline on the arboretum getting these uh labels up and they're designed, everything there's gonna be a big, big sign, uh, you know, welcome to the arboretum and kind of an orientation.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

That's been designed, it's ready, and the the tree labels are ready. We just haven't pulled the trigger and sent them to the company that's gonna produce them.

SPEAKER_04 48:08

Okay. So we've once all of that's done, y'all are gonna have a grand opening and an announcement, ribbon cutting all of that? Yeah, I guess. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 48:16

And I uh the and uh let me get a plug-in for the river walk too. I was talking to Frances Glenn at CVB, and she said they did a recent um survey or focus group or something, and they were looking for what are the identifying um, you know, features of Columbus, what are the best things of Columbus? And every single person mentioned the river walk, and it is a real treasure that we need to, you know, take care of and and appreciate.

SPEAKER_05 48:46

And it's here, here. Keeping it green here in Catfish Alley Studio. Thanks for joining us, thank you both. Yeah. All right, we'll take a break and come back with three things you need to know. All right, Zach, what are the three things that I need to know tonight?

SPEAKER_04 49:04

All right, before we go, number one, February 27th is a big day in Columbus. It's the last day to donate canned soup for the March of the Mayor's food drive, and it's the last day to buy a$5 raffle ticket for a chance to win the Luxe Dinosaur Sculpture in support of the fossil park. You can drop off cans at City Hall, Fire Station 1, or the municipal complex. You can buy raffle tickets for Luxie at the Main Street Columbus office or various other downtown locations. Number two, Londs County has deeded the remainder of the old Sheriff's Boys Ranch property on Motley Road to the Lowndes County Industrial Development Authority to help better serve the Cinco Mega Site with water and sewer. Most of the 320-acre property was deeded over to LCIDA a couple years ago after the Palmer home lost its lease to run programs there. The remaining 62 acres of that lease has now been released and deeded over to the Development Authority.

SPEAKER_06 50:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:04

Number three, two Columbus men and a Laurel man are under federal indictment for allegedly conspiring to rig bids for sports equipment being sold to public schools in Mississippi. Gerald Lavender, owner of Sports Specialty on Highway 45, and John Burt, both of Columbus, as well as Jack Purvis Jr. of Laurel, they're all accused of agreeing in advance who would win a bid for a certain school, then the others would submit intentionally higher bids to make sure that happened. The ploy affected at least 44 school districts and cost taxpayers millions, according to the U.S. Department of Justice. Well, you know, we had a lot we had another case like this that involved a Starville person uh not too long ago, uh similar kind of deal. And you know, this is something people don't people don't think about it, but it's taxpayer money that we're talking about. And anytime that you don't have a fair bidding process, it costs taxpayers. So I'm glad to see the U.S. DOJ uh dealing with this issue.

Funding, Partnerships, And Get Involved

SPEAKER_05 51:12

Well, I mean, we cannot afford to be Minnesota. We can't afford fraud, we can't fli you know, we were talking about uh just the the newspaper bids. I mean, that's a that's a small amount of money, but all this stuff adds up. And it's very, very real, you know, parents who either under their breath or out loud complain about the cost of uniforms and football helmets and all that. These issues matter, and we will be following that story very, very closely. So that'll do it for today. We thank you for listening. Uh we'll be signing out here from Catfish Alley Studio, historic downtown Columbus, your host has been Zach Player. My name is David Chisholm. Y'all be sure to follow us and spread the word, keeping it real. Y'all stay friendly.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

I'm just a simple old country boy, but uh I think that makes sense. I've stepped out and I've said what I had to say.

SPEAKER_05 52:05

You've been listening to Between the Headlines with Zach and David. That's what old people do.

SPEAKER_06 52:12

That is.