Between the Headlines: Columbus
Between the Headlines dives deep into the stories shaping Columbus and Lowndes County, Mississippi. Hosted by The Commercial Dispatch managing editor Zack Plair and local businessman and commentator David Chism, this show goes beyond the front page to bring you the real conversations behind local politics, policies and people. Zack’s journalistic expertise and David’s insight deliver in-depth analysis, spirited debate, and behind-the-scenes context you won’t get anywhere else. It's honest discussion on what matters.
Between the Headlines: Columbus
Retiring Fire Chief Weighs in on New Chief, Department
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A fire department is more than sirens and turnout gear. It’s a workplace culture, a retention problem, a medical response machine, and a public promise that has to hold up at 2 a.m. We sit down with Columbus, Mississippi Fire Chief Duane Hughes as he prepares to retire after 31 years in the department, and he tells the truth about what changed and what still needs work.
We get into how the job used to run on “conditioning” and top-down control, why that mindset shifted toward empowerment, and what actually keeps firefighters from leaving. Hughes breaks down recruitment and retention in plain terms: money is the top answer, but benefits, leadership, scheduling flexibility, and real organizational support can matter just as much. He also explains why Columbus Fire and Rescue’s international accreditation matters, how performance indicators translate into better readiness, and why improved fire ratings can lower homeowners insurance premiums.
Then we pivot from public safety to community arts with Colin Krieger from Golden Triangle Theatre, who previews Hairspray at the Lyceum at Lee.
If you care about Columbus local news, firefighter staffing, EMS realities, severe weather shelter planning, or simply want a great reason to see live theater, this one’s for you. Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find the show.
Cold Open And Sponsors
SPEAKER_02I don't know what he has come up with today to talk about.
SPEAKER_07I'm not asking you to hide anything. Yeah. You know, put it out there.
SPEAKER_01Let the people see it.
SPEAKER_06I've never not worked in a hostile working environment.
SPEAKER_01You can't argue with anybody when they're putting facts in your face. Zach, that's a hard question. I have no answer for it. From the opinion page of the commercial dispatch. This is Between the Headlines.
A Career Spent In Columbus
SPEAKER_04Today on Between the Headlines, two special guests. First, Mr. Dwayne Hughes, Fire Chief, who's headed on out the road on April 16th. We'll be glad to hear from him today. And I suspect he wants to spill the fiends about a few things. Also coming in to talk about hairspray, a presentation of Golden Triangle Theater, Mr. Colin Krieger. But first, retirement looks different for everyone, so your plan should be built around you. For over forty years, Financial Concepts has helped people create retirement strategies that fit their lives. Our team in Columbus takes the time to understand your goals and build a plan that works for you. Wherever you are in your journey, we're ready to help. We plan retirement. Financial Concepts is a registered investment advisor. This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, a bank headquartered right here in Columbus, Mississippi. That means your banking decisions aren't made hundreds of miles away by someone who doesn't know you. They're made here locally by bankers who know your name and care about the community. At Bank First, we're more than bankers, we're your neighbors. Whether we're cheering in the stands, catching up at a local pancake breakfast, or celebrating milestones across our community, we're part of the moments that matter most. Stop by your local Bank First branch or visit BankFirstFS.com to learn more. Bank First is a member FDIC and Equal Housing Lender, Bank NMLS 454063. We're pleased to have in the studio today Mr. Dwayne Hughes, our fire chief, and has been so since 22. Is that correct, sir?
SPEAKER_02That is correct.
SPEAKER_04All right. But you've actually been in the department about 31 years and you're set to retire April 16th. Thank you for your service and thanks for coming in today.
SPEAKER_02Well, I certainly appreciate the opportunity to have served here in Columbus. I started in the department October 26, 1995.
SPEAKER_05Okay. All right. Well, um uh so how has the department changed, I guess, uh since you started as a firefighter? I know you served some time as an assistant chief and then uh uh chief the last four years. So I guess talk about that journey through the department over three decades.
SPEAKER_02Well as I said, uh October 26, 1995, I came in the department. Uh actually had to interview for the job in front of the mayor and council, uh Mayor Fannon at the time. And so uh definitely one of the things, questions I asked uh you had questions like what church do you attend? You're single, do you plan on getting married?
SPEAKER_05Stuff you can't explicitly know. No, no.
SPEAKER_02No, no, those questions are certainly not allowed now. But they certainly made for an interesting interview process.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02And um the department has definitely changed. Um one of the things back then, uh, first thing I was told is until you've been here five years, you don't have an opinion. And uh that's the way it was run. Um it was uh very scalar, top-down, authoritarian management. Um, and until you put your those five years in, you kept those opinions to yourself. You know, if you were told to take a five-gallon bucket and and walk three blocks and water plants, that's what you did. Never mind that it was 23 degrees outside and the plants died a month ago. That's what you were told to do.
SPEAKER_05So hazing, that's what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh conditioning is what it was called then.
SPEAKER_05Gotcha.
SPEAKER_02Definitely. But um, it it built character. I think uh what the older heads were trying to do was they were trying to figure out um if you will uh obey and follow these instructions now, then I can depend on you to obey and follow these instructions when we're inside a house and it's 900 degrees and I've got a wall falling in. And so um definitely we understood uh the the reasoning behind it. We do it differently now, but um, they had their own way back then. So that's probably uh one of the biggest ways the department has changed, and that um uh since certainly since I became chief, is uh we have what we call empowerment. Uh we allow individuals uh you don't have to wait five years to have an opinion. It may not carry much weight, but we're gonna allow you an opportunity to voice it. And uh we found uh more times than than often uh fresh perspectives actually help when it comes to the day-to-day operations.
SPEAKER_05Well, five years is kind of becoming a rarity for firefighters to make that mark now. I mean, you're seeing that, other fire departments are seeing that. Talk about that a little bit, the turnover and oh definitely.
Recruitment, Retention, And Pay Reality
SPEAKER_02Uh recruitment and retention in the fire service nationally is certainly a huge challenge. Um we used to first uh we thought of it as uh maybe generational, you know. Uh but I believe that it's it's deeper than that. I think what we have is a a cultural shift where individuals don't see the the uh long-term career in the in the gold watch at the end. What they're looking for now is um uh what satisfaction, what uh quality of life can I get out of a job? And if I can't get that immediately, um there's two, three other jobs out there. Uh you know, there there's no brand loyalty.
SPEAKER_05Okay, well, I mean, w d I understand there's no I understand what you're saying about brand loyalty, but when these people leave, I know you're doing exit interviews and and different things like that. I'm I'm not asking for any specific person or specific, but but just in the aggregate, when these people are leaving and you're asking them why, what's the answer?
SPEAKER_02Number one answer is money. And where are you guys at right now on my Well Um When I became chief in 2022, the uh average the firefighter starting out was making$10.88 an hour. You know, you had uh individuals in in some other departments that were maybe working a weed eater making twelve dollars an hour. So uh it definitely that was a challenge. Right now, uh the firefighters are making$14.75 around an hour.
SPEAKER_05And and that's not a 40-hour week, though.
SPEAKER_02That's a different Yes, it's a it's a different schedule. And and and to be fair, uh firefighters in Columbus are on 24 hours and they're off 48 hours.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02Uh there's fair labor standards uh money built into that that compensates for being on duty for a full 24-hour ship. Uh so uh there there's some advantages there, but certainly uh to expect an individual to be hired, come in, do a uh college semester for EMT national certification, uh go down to the fire academy for seven weeks, pass that and get a certification, and then reward them with a princely sum of ten dollars and eighty-eight cents an hour was definitely not something that was gonna keep retention.
SPEAKER_05Okay, well, but has retention changed at all since it's gone up four dollars?
SPEAKER_02Uh it it has, uh definitely, but um one of the more pressing issues besides uh the monetary value is what we'll I like to call uh eliminating turnover intention. Okay, so there are some things that we can do inside any organization, uh what I will refer to as organizational supports that may outweigh that uh dollar difference. You know, where you have that individual says, Well, I may not be making the salary I want, but while I'm here, I've got the this uh insurance benefit that's better than anywhere else. I've got uh supervisor that actually care about what's going on in my life. I've got the opportunity to do swap time. That is, uh, if I want to be off a certain day, and I've got an individual trained to the same level as I am that will come in and work for me that day, uh then I can work for him when he wants a day off. You know, that those are organizational supports and and perks. And those things have definitely uh got us out of the doldrum where we were five years, six years ago, we were down 26, 27 individuals.
SPEAKER_04And and for those who do not know if if someone in the department is on for 24 are they awake the whole 24 hours, I mean I know they're ready to go, but what is it?
SPEAKER_02Well, I know, but but I mean Yeah, and which I refer to the the fair labor standards because uh you you can't realistically expect that person to stay awake for 24 hours and respond and and and uh uh and be cognizant of what they're doing. So uh there there is downtown here at the Columbus Fire and Rescue. Um anytime after 9 p.m., we consider personal time. So uh but um we still maintain the same standard we've held earlier in that day.
SPEAKER_05So it's personal time until the bell sounds.
SPEAKER_02Until the bell sounds.
SPEAKER_05But their personal time is living together in the fire station.
SPEAKER_02That is correct. You still got that same uh sixty seconds to get on the truck if it's a medical call. We give you, you know, uh a minute and thirty seconds to get your gear on if it's a fire call. We're off that pad of the station within two minutes uh at that residence. So we we maintain that irregardless of whether it's uh 1 a.m. or 1 p.m.
SPEAKER_05Well now and uh eighty-five, eighty-six percent of y'all's calls are medical now?
SPEAKER_02That's correct. Okay we usually run around uh mid eighties percent uh being medical, uh, and then the rest are are fire or uh combination of other calls.
The 24-Hour Shift Family Dynamic
SPEAKER_05Aaron Ross Powell Well, I've always been fascinated by just uh you know in in 23 years working for newspapers, uh I've been fascinated, I've been around fire departments a lot, been always been fascinated by that lifestyle, by that, okay, so for 24 hours it's me and these two or three guys, and and and this is what we're doing. And I mean, having done that, and uh, you know, you always imagine yourself, if if I was living that, like, how would I hold up to that? And I guess so I'm asking you, having done that, like what is that like? What does that do? How does that change a person, an employee, like going through that process and living that way?
SPEAKER_02Definitely. A third of your life is spent with your second family. You know, and that's what we are, the their family, because you're stuck in a in a station. Uh may look like a prison cell. You're there. All the problems that you and that other individual have, you're bringing there. And uh you got to work it out for the next 24 hours. So um definitely when we do staffing, we look at personality types, we look at uh maturity levels, we we do all these things. It's almost as if you're preparing for a deep space mission because uh these individuals, you you sitting there and it's a slow day and you start getting cabin fever, and somebody uh picked up the wrong cookie and ate it, and it's on.
SPEAKER_05What about how many interdepartmental uh uh you know, or how many intradepartmental like boxing tournaments do y'all have to have? Do y'all ever like do it with the cops, you know, just kind of work it out?
SPEAKER_02Well, we we used to uh uh have touch football games with them, but we beat them so bad every time they quit, they don't want to play us anymore. And it got the same way in in basketball, we had to quit because they were bringing Mississippi State players over and claiming they were teenagers.
SPEAKER_04That sounds like something old miss would try.
SPEAKER_05Well, I do again. I guess looking inside the department with that kind of dynamic, uh I I guess how does upper manager, how do you uh step in and maybe resolve some of those issues as they go?
SPEAKER_02Trevor Burrus Like I said, uh when we start um staffing these stations, you want to look at the personality types, you want to look at maturity levels, you want to look at career arcs and and where the people are, you want to put somebody that's more seasoned and mature with a a younger individual and uh hoping that will rub off. But there are always going to be clashes.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh we handle just like we do in a family. If you got a problem with an individual, you go to that individual as a man or a woman and you talk it out. And if it can't uh be worked out then, uh we follow the grievance policy. Uh we go up through a chain of command, and usually what I do if it gets to my level, I I come to find out it was something that happened two or three weeks before that wasn't handled. Right. And it's coming up. So I'll get the individuals in the room and and I say, okay, um, we're gonna work this out. Uh and uh sometimes uh it's compromise, sometimes it ends up hug, there's tears. Uh but as I said before, it's a family. Uh and I think that's why we're so much different than other departments, that there's a culture that uh is ingrained within the fire service, especially here in Columbus, fire and rescue, where um we look out for each other because I may be mad at you and and I didn't speak to you half the shift, but when that bell goes off, it's my life is literally in your hands sometimes.
SPEAKER_05And correct me if I'm wrong, he holds one of, I think, three nationally accredited fire departments in the state. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_02I it will be two. Gulfport is is the other um department that is internationally accredited. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_05Okay. And uh so I guess tell me a little bit about w what that is and why that matters and how like uh a lot has been invested in that, a lot of talk is uh there's been a lot of talk about how important that is. So what is that, and how does the regular rank and file Columbus citizen experience an accredited uh fire and rescue as opposed to a non-accredited?
Accreditation And Lower Insurance Rates
SPEAKER_02Okay. Well, um basically international accreditation, and just to sum it up in a few words, uh fire chiefs around the world got together, sat down, and said, Okay, if you say you're good, what does that mean? Let's quantify that. And so they sat down and they came up with 150 performance indicators and uh measures that um they all decided on that um, let's say turnout time. If you say you're good, then when that clock goes off, uh a good fire department is off that pad within under two minutes. You know, or um, if you're if you're looking at other measurements, you know, um such as uh let's say uh equipment, uh your turnout gear, all of it is gonna be under five years, you know, service life. And so all these 150 items they sat down, and all the departments that meet those criteria, those basic criteria, are considered uh accredited. Uh so we could easily have gotten those performance indicators and and decided, okay, well, we'll we'll do this on our own. But the biggest part of accreditation is the peer element. You've actually got individuals that come in every five years and they look, and you've got to provide quantifiable data that says that you meet each one of those performance indicators. And they decide, you know, externally whether you meet those uh those bars or not. And so it keeps you honest, it keeps you in the loop of what's going on uh nationally and internationally as far as uh fire safety trends, and then where the average citizen uh gains. Uh you've got a fire department now that um as part of accreditation is tasked with identifying community hazards. So the individuals on the fire truck, we go out, we look at new construction, we look at where their chemical stores, uh, we sit down with community groups, uh churches, uh politicians, and we we determine what are the threats that we have in Columbus, such as uh, you know, you've got opioid abuse, you've got gun violence, you know, uh severe weather events, just to name a few. Uh and then uh you you come up with a plan of action to deal with those. Um and you and you do that collaboratively, uh, and you exercise those plans. So that's and uh also accreditation, because we're we're we're accomplishing that, that gives us a head up where it comes to the state rating bureau, which actually comes in and decides uh what the city's rating is on a one to ten, ten being uh not so good and one being excellent. So uh we've been able to uh once we became accredited, we went from a four to a class three. And uh we're set, if uh things continue, to go to a class two here within the next two years.
SPEAKER_04Does the average homeowner's insurance payer benefit from that?
SPEAKER_02Yes, they do. They see a direct result as far as their insurance premium. Uh when we went from a class four to a class three, I believe there was around a twenty-seven, twenty-eight dollar drop in insurance premiums. And if we can go to this class two, we may double that.
SPEAKER_05And that may that would be the there aren't any class ones in the State, are there?
SPEAKER_02Uh to my knowledge, there may be two, and I believe that would be Gulfport and the City of Jackson, Mississippi.
SPEAKER_05Okay. As far as I guess you could say controversial news if there were any coming out of the fire department in the last little while or even during your entire tenure, uh the business with the mold at the fire station, can that has that been resolved? What what what was that about?
SPEAKER_02Yes. Um We we talked earlier about culture. And um the fire department is a microverse, uh, a mini-version of uh American society. So um the issue wasn't mold. The issue was a power dynamic. And um, you had a change in the city administration. You had some individuals in the fire department that felt that they weren't being represented in that change, and uh they were verbal about it. And one of the ways that they were verbal about it was to come forth with the the um notifying about the mold there at station five. Uh when I heard about the mold situation, I got battalion chief, we went down. Uh we addressed the concerns as best as we we thought, but I knew that it wasn't about mold. There were some other issues going on there. Um generally I said we're a family. So in a family, when you have problems, uh we we come to each other and sp and we speak. But the immediate response there with those individuals was to go to the news media and uh and not voice those opinions within the family. Now, I'm not saying that's right or wrong because I'm a strong advocate in transparency and and I treasure the relationship that we have with the media. But um it did I the media wasn't gonna be the ones that was gonna be able to go down there and resolve a family issue. So it took some sit-down meetings, um, unfortunately. Um a very good captain decided to resign over the issue. But um other individuals that involved um they got it uh back into the process of making things right at Station Five. And I'm very proud to say those two individuals still with us, and they just recently one was uh promoted to captain, and the other was promoted from a firefighter to an engineer. So um that to me shows that um although there was some dissatisfaction that um they still chose to um keep and retain their talents here with the family Columbus Fire and Rescue. Now, um you got issues that come up like that all the time. Ninety percent of them, the public never hears about them.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02Uh because as I said, uh it's a cultural thing. But I think you have to, as a chief, take those whatever feelings you have, put those to the side and remember in order for this department to accomplish this mission of serving the citizen, you first have to make sure you take care of the firefighters that are there at that station. They're they're the ones the public doesn't see me. When the public has their worst day, it's those individuals that are there. And I want them there at their happiest and their brightest, able to serve. And you can't do that if you're stuck in a station 24 hours with an issue such as mold.
SPEAKER_05So y'all did it, y'all did replace the uh the mold effective. Yes.
Succession Planning And Replacing A Chief
SPEAKER_02Uh we actually had uh uh independent contractor come in and uh remediate the mold situation. Uh we had another that came in, replaced all the sheep rock and and and did everything. And then uh we sat down and we talked about it as a department, and I let each shift go in, look in the station, and and make a list of anything that they saw was deficient. And we would fix it before they they went back in. And uh there were one or two items, but other than that, uh I hate that it it it went the way it did, but I'm glad in a way because it it it allowed individuals that felt that they didn't have a voice, you know, to be able to voice their opinion.
SPEAKER_05Well, speaking of having a voice in a process, um I understand you uh have participated on some level in uh the the process of finding your replacement. Um I'm gonna ask you some questions about that. Uh I understand uh from I understand from city administration that uh the that the process is down to two finalists, one internal, one external. I think it's an open secret who the external person is. Um but I I guess how has that process gone for you? Um and where where are you on who it ought to be?
SPEAKER_02Well keeping in mind that I'm still a city employee until April sixteenth. Um there's certain things that I Can and can't voice.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02But what I will say is as as a fire chief in my career, the average span of a fire chief's career is 18 months. You know. Within that 18 months, uh they got buy-in from the city administration, they got buy-in from the department, and they're able to push those goals that they they want to see accomplished.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02And I was able to do that within the first 18 months. And uh at that point we started, I personally started looking for a replacement. Uh there were some things that were going on politically that held that process up on my side. And I did not feel that it was uh appropriate at that time to have an assistant chief. But once that situation changed, um I definitely knew that I had a year left and wanted to get assistant chief in so that I could work with them and prepare them to do that.
SPEAKER_05But that didn't but that didn't happen.
SPEAKER_02No, that that had that did not happen. Um and I I cannot answer as to why that did not happen. I I questioned it.
SPEAKER_05But you but you asked when this when this term started. Okay, so let me let me back up a second and zero in on this assistant chief thing. You have an assistant chief spot, right? Yes. Um in the last term or at the at the time where you were hired as chief, um you did not pursue that spot being filled.
SPEAKER_02I did not.
SPEAKER_05And you talked about the political climate at the time. Is there any part of that that you can elaborate on?
SPEAKER_02Uh nothing that I would get in depth to here, but I I will say that um it would not have served the department or the citizens to have gotten enough assistant chief at that time.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Um so what was different when the term changed over and and and you asked for that position to be filled? Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Well, we had a new administration that that came in. Um certain individuals that were present were no longer there. And then it felt like uh it was going to be an open process and that would allow for an assistant chief to to come into fruition. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_05And you but it didn't happen, and you say that you don't know why?
SPEAKER_02Um What I can comment on is that I asked for uh an Assistant Chief applications uh to be um accepted, and in which at that time we had three applicants that put in at you know uh their uh request to be interviewed for assistant chief. Uh this was um, I believe, October. Uh the process began in in in June, July, end of June, early July. By October, we had uh the applications in, and uh I asked uh for permission to go ahead and interview, and uh did not receive permission to to interview for those assistant chief's positions.
SPEAKER_05And then I remember when uh when you announced your retirement and set your retirement date, I do remember the the counsel saying at that time that the new chief, whoever that ends up being, would would be a part of the selecting the assistant chief. Correct. Um I guess how b without that succession plan in place, how much more difficult has it been to search for your replacement?
SPEAKER_02Well, uh when we talk about the uniqueness of the fire department, um part of that is succession planning. Uh in order for someone to move up, you've got to have someone move out.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_02So that goes back to uh what I was referencing about the effective span of a fire chief being 18 months. Uh when you start getting to the chief level, no one's able to move up until the fire chief moves out.
SPEAKER_04Sounds like church administration.
SPEAKER_02You couldn't have picked a better analogy.
SPEAKER_05That's exactly what's the Sunday school superintendent.
SPEAKER_02It is. And and and and just like in in the with that church analogy, you you've got some elders that stay a little too long in those positions and and they kind of things up. But anyway, it's all about succession. It's like shark's teeth, you know, it's it's a constant role. So when uh the fire department doesn't have that ability to um uh enact or allow the process to proceed as it it was naturally would, then that that puts a hold up in in certain things. And uh one of the holdups, as as we've seen, uh and and you said you were talking about controversies and thing, is uh without having a clear-cut successor, it becomes difficult, not only when you talk about choosing a fire chief or assistant chief, but if you um elevate one of the persons in the department to one of those positions, then you created another void. And it's like a domino effect. Right.
SPEAKER_04You know, so uh every passion that you create, you gotta fill it right.
SPEAKER_02That's correct.
SPEAKER_04So and then you have to deal with the guy that didn't get the promotion.
SPEAKER_02Definitely. And uh, but you know, uh you've always, you know, we've always had individuals that didn't get with the promotion. Uh one of the cultural shifts that um I've seen in my career is there was a time when if you just waited everyone out, um, you just put your years in, then you were guaranteed the position. And that's no longer so. You got individuals that are going out, going to the National Fire Academy, um, they're working close with the city administration, interdepartmental things, uh getting uh college degrees. They're working to um towards these positions. So uh when those positions come open, you have a highly qualified pool of applicants. So um it's no longer I I you know I did my 15 years. It's my turn. It's my turn. Yeah. What did you do serving the citizens of Columbus that would earn you this position?
SPEAKER_05Well, speaking of that, and I'm uh, you know, I think a whole lot of people saw this uh Facebook post for according to that Facebook post, I believe it was a former employee of the city, maybe the fire department, talked about there being uh four uh internal candidates for the Chiefs position, and only one of them actually got an interview. What do you what can you tell us about that and why that would have been?
SPEAKER_02Uh if and I believe we're s we're speaking about the same uh Facebook post. I actually spoke with that individual. Uh he had enough respect for me, called me the morning before he posted it and asked me if I uh had any opinions about him or opposition to him posting. Of course, he's a private citizen.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_02You're not gonna tell them not to speak. And uh and uh when it comes to opinions, I'm you know, if they're not going to go in city policy, I'm not gonna tell anyone not to post anything. But he had a very strong opinion. He worked very closely with the individuals that put their applications in, and he felt that they should have been given an opportunity to to interview for the position. Uh he also, um, and I don't think mind if he if I say this in in his stead, but he felt that uh the impression is that the uh appointment was was foregone conclusion.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02And that it was uh sort of a a disrespect to the individuals who actually done those things I just spoke about previously, that had put in their time and and gone to the classes, gotten there uh um credentialing and and were not allowed to come in and interview.
SPEAKER_05Trevor Burrus Well, I mean I guess what's your opinion of um a a lot of times when you've got uh uh especially internal candidates that meet the minimum qualifications, um they usually just unspoken rule that they would get an interview. W uh why didn't that happen this time? What do you how do you feel about that?
SPEAKER_02Well, um traditionally at Columbus Fire and Rescue um has always been internal candidates that were uh viewed for positions, and very rarely have um external candidates been can considered, uh especially for the chief position. Um I feel that um Columbus Fire and Rescue is a unique fire department. Not just because of the international accreditation, but because of the city that we serve. This is a unique city. Uh the the demographics here, the um, you know, the the things that go on in Columbus, you you're very aptly not to find them in other cities. Columbus was spared the ravages of the Civil War. So there's a lot of balloon-framed construction that still exists here. There's a lot of balloon-framed uh ideology that still exists here. You know. And so um you've got to um be able to come in and and have a fire department that's gonna perform the primary mission of the fire department, which is to protect the tax base. You know, that's that's that's our mission. Uh empty lots don't pay taxes. So we want to make sure that we protect the tax base. The other side of that is uh meeting the needs of the citizens that we serve. Um when you actually work in Columbus, when you actually know the history behind uh why these things were constructed the way they were constructed, or you know that um you've been to the the meeting with the business leaders who are telling you they need this and they need that, when you've attended the the church meetings and and and you've identified some of the issues, it makes it a lot easier. That um transitioning to the chief position is a lot easier. I'm not saying that it can't be done by an external candidate, but what I'm telling you, in my opinion, is uh the process is a lot easier when you have an internal candidate.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Are you supporting the internal finalist as your replacement?
SPEAKER_02I am definitely supporting uh anyone within Columbus Fire and Rescue to replace me. Uh that that goes without saying. Um you if you could get you could get the fire chief from uh New York City and come down. And he and he would have all the credentialing, he would have all the experience. I'm always going to support Columbus Fire and Rescue because that's my family.
SPEAKER_03Right.
Internal Versus External Leadership Fit
SPEAKER_02Um I know these individuals. I I I know their strengths, I know their weaknesses. And God bless them, they had to put up with me for 30 years. So any opportunity that they can have to get me out of the way, yeah, I support it. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_05It's an open secret that uh the external candidate is uh uh former uh Starville chief uh Charles Yarbross, somebody I know, uh live over in Starwell. He was my fire chief for a time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um I gu you know him pretty well.
SPEAKER_02Excellent, excellent, uh a good friend of mine. Uh we actually met, uh we started our careers uh about the same time. We met through uh mutual friend who's a former uh fire chief Martin Andrews, who introduced uh this was back in 1996, I've known him since then. He's actually associate pastor at my church. And uh so I I have a very good, rich relationship with Charles Yarborough.
SPEAKER_05Aaron Ross Powell I know not within Columbus Fire and Rescue, but given what you know about him as a person, given about uh what you know about him and his uh firefighting acumen and credentials in administration, uh how do you see uh Chief Yarborough adjusting if he is the pick for fire chief?
SPEAKER_02Trevor Burrus If if Chief Yarborough is is chosen to be my successor in that department, uh he the he he has no weaknesses. He did a fine job, excellent job as fire chief in Starful. If he was chosen to come to Columbus, uh I would only temper that with being that Columbus fire and rescue is different than Starful Fire and Rescue. Uh he would be starting at a at a disadvantage at a time when we're getting ready to have the piercestors come back in. Uh there's a lot of uh uh footwork that has to occur before then. Uh we've got the State Rating Bureau that's gonna be coming back in. He's gonna be coming back in at a time where he's immediately he he would have to hit the road running. And so um in order for him to do that successfully, he would definitely have to make inroads with individuals in the department that are key holders when it comes to that. Um of the best things he could do is if he was appointed a chief, in my opinion, is he'd have to go to that department uh with hat in hand and say, This is a situation, let me in the family.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Do you uh would you would you say it would be something like maybe the Miami of Ohio basketball coach getting hired at Duke?
SPEAKER_02I wouldn't say it'd be that. I wouldn't go down that.
SPEAKER_05Miami of Ohio was nearly undefeated. Come on. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_02So was Duke. But what I what I will say is this you have individuals that work at Columbus Fire and Rescue that don't do it for a salary.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02They do it because they feel it was a calling. And because of that, it doesn't care matter who's fire chief, the men and women of that department are gonna continue to work and strive towards excellence. Uh, as you said before earlier, there's always controversies, there's always hits. But what family doesn't have that? At the end of the day, we're gonna, they're gonna I have full confidence that whoever gets that chief position, they're gonna rally behind them because at the end of the day, they know that that person's success represents their success.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_04Is there anything else you'd like to throw in there today?
SPEAKER_02Uh the only thing I like to throw in is uh definitely some challenges that are facing the fire service. This tier five uh for the the PERS retirement is gonna have a detrimental effect as far as recruitment and retention. Um if you get an individual in and you tell them they're gonna work 35 years before they retire, that means you're probably gonna have a 60-year-old uh getting off at your house at two in the morning when your um carport's on fire. I don't see that being, you know, uh confidence inspiring. So um that that's a challenge. I think that there's some legislation moving to address that. But um definitely there. And then um there are some challenges that the City of Columbus has as far as what I I I'll I say is resilience when we come to these severe weather events. Uh we keep replacing uh the down lines, we keep replacing the the infrastructure. We may need to start it uh building back a little better, maybe burying these lines. Uh when we start doing these uh damming and and and diking events, retention ponds, maybe dual-purposing them, making them walking tracks or uh, you know, some uh ball fields around them, uh we've got to start using our money a little more wisely because um as we've seen in the past couple of years, federal dollars are drying up. Yeah. And it's up to uh local administrations to be a little more creative and and and frugal with the monies that are being spent.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Well, d how uh how helpful in the in the storm, at least shelter uh situation, how helpful is the Stokes Beard plan in in your mind?
SPEAKER_02Well uh very helpful because uh as it stands now, the only shelter that we have within the City of Columbus is at the um technology center. That presents a challenge uh to individuals that live in certain parts of the city trying to get over there.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02Um and so um having something a little more centrally located, a little more accessible, that that's that's gonna be very good.
SPEAKER_05And I think it several hundred on a first come, first served in a real bad situation.
SPEAKER_02So the the situation that we have at the Technology Center, the the deal is Columbus Fire and Rescue, we maintain a key to that building. Uh when Cindy Lawrence at EMA notifies us of a severe weather event, we go and open it up. And then the police department is tasked with uh monitoring uh while we're there. Well, that means that uh somebody from Columbus Fire and Rescue during a severe severe weather event has to make their way over there to open it up. That may not happen immediately if we're tied up on, you know.
SPEAKER_05Well, now uh y'all also have uh smaller shelters at each at each fire station that y'all don't really turn people away necessarily.
SPEAKER_02No, no, we never would.
SPEAKER_05But um how much are how much are people taking advantage of?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um we do have some individuals that um know they can't make it to uh the technology center in time, they will come to the stations. I've given directives that if they come, they're allowed in. But keep in mind these are concrete pill boxes. They they're unpowered. Once you close that door, you're in the dark, there's no ventilation, you know, so it it's not optimal. We um I think I'm getting ahead of myself, but um there's a grant that is possible the city has received that will uh provide generators for all the stations. And so we'll be supplying power to those shelters, you know, to change that situation. But until then, uh it's not something that I would call optimal. You know, there's no seating there, there's no um restroom. Uh i it's like going into a uh a cellar and closing the door and being in in complete darkness to all clear is called.
SPEAKER_04Now that's not exactly a good advertisement to say, hey, y'all need to be safe and come on and join us.
SPEAKER_02No, no, this is which is why we don't. But I will say this for the firefighters that and and the officers of other respondents in the community, uh, prior to this we didn't have anything. And if you're uh historian or you remember, uh we lost our number two fire station over at Prost Park during a tornado. It was destroyed. At that time, the only thing we did was um we would go lay under the fire trucks and and pray for the bed. You know, now with uh the individuals actually have a shelter that uh each one of the stations they can go to. The police officers, ambulance crews can park and come in, and we wait till the all-clear is given and then we go back out and render aid.
SPEAKER_05Well, just a personal question for you. Uh April 17th, are are you going fishing and nobody call me? I don't know you, this ain't my problem. Or or how is how is Dwayne Hughes, uh the citizen, going to continue to be involved in the city?
SPEAKER_02Listen. Uh my heart belongs to the City of Columbus. Um I was uh a young man when I came here, uh and uh Mayor Fannon took a chance on me. And I like to think that um in the ensuing years that I've repaid the confidence that not just he, but uh citizens have placed in me. So that's not a switch that you just flip off. Um you say you live in Starville.
SPEAKER_05I do.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Um I don't own any property within the city limits of Columbus. But I'm thinking about purchasing some property here and living here and and seeing where those uh residency uh requirements will will lead me in the future.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
unknownAll right.
SPEAKER_05What ward are you gonna move into?
SPEAKER_02Ha ha. That depends on the behavior of these councilmen.
SPEAKER_05Dwayne Hughes is watching you. Well, I really appreciate you coming by. I've always appreciated talking with you. Your your your your candor, uh, your transparency. Uh I know you're gonna be terribly missed. Uh so uh No, no, no.
SPEAKER_02That that that's Columbus Fire and Rescue has been here since 1840. It's gonna continue to be here. And and as a personal aside, uh early in my career, we we had a news reporter that was denied access to a scene. He was actually um detained, I would call it arrested. And uh a couple of years later, that reporter became mayor. I learned a big lesson then that I need to get a good relationship with the media. And I think that I hope that um that's been shared not only just with you, but with uh WCBI and and other regional news outlets, because um it's all about transparency. And uh if we keep a good relationship when I need you to get the the message out concerning severe weather or other things that's going on, uh we're on the same team.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So uh I'd end this by saying thank you. Thank you. I certainly thank you.
Hairspray Comes To The Lyceum
SPEAKER_04Yes, sir. Thank you for being in here. You've been listening to Between the Headlines with Dwayne Hughes, fire chief since 22, looking forward to the future. We'll take a break, and our next guest will be Colin Krieger. But first. Since 1935, Lowndes Farm Supply has supported the Greater Columbus Trade Area with products and knowledge for the farm, ranch, and garden markets, along with lawn, hunting supplies, outdoor clothing, and boots. Go check them out at 69 Co-op Road in Columbus. So now we have in the studio no stranger to anyone, Mr. Colin Krieger, who is here to talk to us today about the presentation by the Golden Triangle Theater Association Hairspray, March 20th and 21st, and also 22nd at the Lyceum at Lee, right?
SPEAKER_07Yes, sir. It's gonna be a heck of a show. We're getting going.
SPEAKER_05All right, so who are you playing?
SPEAKER_07I am playing Edna Turnbled, who is the uh the famous John Travolta's probably the most notable version of it people have seen out there, where I am the mom. The main character is Tracy Turnbled, and I play the mom that is very clearly a man. Everybody seems to ignore it for the whole show. So it's not quite a drag character or anything like that. It's just this big dude playing a woman. That's the half the other thing. Yeah, sort of like closer to Mrs. Dowflower, I guess, but it's not quite Medea either. It's just and it's John Waters wrote the original movie. I don't know if you're familiar with John Waters from Baltimore, but he did a lot of stuff with like he did have trans people, but just making making things uncomfortable is what how he described his movie-making thing. And that's what it was. It was just this big, just giant dude.
SPEAKER_05Well, give give us the just the the basic plot without any spoilers.
How Theater Builds Skills And Community
SPEAKER_07Okay, so I like to say the uh the Harrisbury is about growth. So there's there's a a plot about a uh the daughter kind of coming out of her shell and she's a little chubby and she gets on a TV show. And then the mom who hasn't been out of her house in tw 15 years getting out, and then various subplots about race relations in the 60s and those sort of things. And so it all comes together in a musical spectacular at the end. But a lot of it is like, hey, these, you know, this this mom and daughter are intolerant of people, and this mom and daughter are uptight, and this mom and daughter are just weird, which we're that one.
SPEAKER_05So within the last few years, you've gotten uh involved in Golden Triangle Theater, and now you're becoming a regular and a veteran. What's that process been like?
SPEAKER_07So it's been a little over two years. I like to say so. Sarah Wade is a realtor with me at her office, and but she's also the marketing director for the Golden Triangle Theater. And uh she tricked me into being in Oklahoma the musical. So I was obviously have no fear, I'm not shy, but uh had never been on stage before, never sung, and I like to use this analogy. My my brother's a pretty accomplished singer, sings in his choir and stuff. My dad was a semi-professional opera singer, sung with Plaza do Domingo, was famous for yeah, went worked for the New Orleans Opera Association and stuff. And so, you know, the line of like uh your your stepfather was an alcoholic, and that's why you drink so much, and then the other half of them are that's why I don't drink. Well, my brother was the one that sang, and I was always nervous to sing because like my dad, we would go to professional shows, and my dad would be like, Well, that guy was off a little, you know, and so I was always nervous, uh, and it's helped a lot. The that's part of the beauty of the Golden Triangle Theater is like everything that they're doing in the community, too. So, like I was there, did Oklahoma, and then I'm like, hey, my 20th anniversary is coming up. Do y'all have somebody who can teach me how to play piano and sing so I can sing my wife our wedding song? So I secretly did that with Isabella Powell from there and um and learned, you know, learned how to sing, learn how to play piano behind the scenes, and then surprised my wife, and then ruined all my friends' anniversary because I went through and sang a beautiful rendition and made everybody cry at my 20th anniversary. Um, and so that part of it's been amazing and the and the just the the energy that you get from being on stage. There's 40 people on stage total. So 40 XM kids. It's mostly college kids or some people uh trying to think. Ben Lang is worked for the district attorney's office.
SPEAKER_05He's Ben's a friend of mine.
SPEAKER_07Ben's, yeah, he's on he's Corney Collins. Yeah. Yeah, and he is a heck of a singer, heck of an actor like that. So these people are coming from all walks of life. And most of most of them are in that 18 uh 23 range, but there isn't a night that I uh don't come home just jacked with energy. Not just from singing and dancing, but just being around these kids and they're all so positive and happy about it and stuff.
SPEAKER_05So now Ben probably don't want me to say this on here, but my wife went to s high school at the Startville in the vicinity of when he was there, and that's what he was known for. We were acting dynamo in high school, from what I understand. So you can throw that at him when you see him again.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I will. Well, yeah, I know. We've been talking more and more because like I know a bunch of people in town, and I'm like, he said something about a case a couple weeks ago, and I'm like, you know, is actually talking to so and so, and she was trying to get out of this grand jury. And he's like, actually, I saw her there, she'd be a great juror. I'm like, Well, you know, she actually runs a nonprofit that's against domestic violence, and he's like, He's like, Well, now I have to get rid of her. I texted her, I'm like, You're out, you're doing good, you got cut. So uh And he like you know, yesterday he had some real tough cases, and he came in and like you know, we were talking about the how we have to deal with business while we're there because it's this kind of performance is over a month, two months is a hundred hours. Yeah, you know, and it's more for the tech people and the directors and stuff, but it's a lot. It's it's all it almost all at night, so it's good for me.
SPEAKER_05Well, now, how does this show compare as far as the spectacle, the preparation, the how involved it is to other shows that you've done in Golden Triangle Theater that you've seen Golden Triangle Theater try to pull off?
SPEAKER_07So this is the biggest cast. So part of the wonderful thing that Garrett and everybody at the Golden Triangle Theater are just doing is getting involved with the schools, especially the public schools. And so they're literally breeding a just a talent pool of kids. So there's kids that are kids, and again, I'm referring to kids anybody under 30, but there's there's kids who if they've gotten them from Going Heritage or going to Joe Cook and doing it, who are now coming to the shows and doing smaller roles who never would have thought about it before because during intercession, Isabella Powell and the rest of them are going out to the schools and teaching these kids for free, getting them involved, and then the kids come and do these junior productions of different plays, and then all of a sudden they're excited about going to school. The beautiful moment uh you probably found out about this too, but two days ago, like we're there at practice. One the kid gets his email from MSMS and he got an MSMS. And you're surrounded, you're like this whole group of stuff, and he wouldn't have been in the theater if somebody hadn't stopped by his school, and if he hadn't stopped by the school, he wouldn't have the extracurricular, and like the kids are sitting there same like singing happy birthday to somebody or cheering him on for getting an MSMS.
SPEAKER_04Here, here to that.
Showtimes, Tickets, And Why It Matters
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah. So anything you want to add? I think the most impressive thing that or that I want to impress on people is how hard these these again kids work. So there's a guy named So Jacob Vernon's one, probably the one of the most talented people in the show, but sometimes there's not a spot for everybody. There is not always a cross-stering giant man that a 50-year-old dude can play in a play. So there's a piece for me, but like he's my husband in the play. But he's one of the most talented dancers, if not the most talented, and he's singing. So he's also putting a hundred hours in, the same that the people who are getting all the credit in Limelight for, and he's back there every day, and there's tons and tons of people. Allison Jones is another one I can think of, who's uh she's a teacher in town, who's back there painting the sets and moving stuff and all this, and it's just I can't tell you. I go there for energy.
SPEAKER_04Tickets to see that are available at Golden Triangletheater.com.
SPEAKER_07Yes.
SPEAKER_05And it's seven o'clock Friday and Saturday, two thirty on Sunday.
SPEAKER_07230 Sunday seems to be the most popular show, uh, which is just and uh and I'm old. Again, that's what's been exhausting for me is I go to bed at nine o'clock. So people ask, like, hey Colin, how can you do so much in one day? I'm like, Well, I wake up at 5 30 and I'm like, ah, I don't want to go. And uh, so yeah, it's uh some late nights practice, and tonight'll be a long night rehearsing.
SPEAKER_05So all right. Well, thank you so much for coming. We're looking forward to seeing the show.
Three Local Headlines To Close
SPEAKER_04And Golden Triangle Theater presents hairspray. That's coming up. Thank you to Mr. Colin Krieger for telling us about that here in the studio today. Up next, three things to know.
SPEAKER_05Three things to know. Uh number one, Tony Perkins is officially official as Chief Marshal for Caledonia, the law enforcement veteran and former Lowndes County Sheriff's Deputy was sworn in Monday after serving five months as the interim in that position. Number two, the state's top spellers will return to the W March twenty-eighth for the Mississippi Spelling B. The top two in the B will qualify to compete in the National B this summer in Washington, D.C. This is the fifth year Columbus has hosted the state B. Number three, if you're in the market for some land to build a house on, does the city have a deal for you? Columbus is offering two vacant lots for uh on Fifth Avenue South for sale through sealed bids. The minimum bid for each lot is a thousand dollars, and the buyer must start building a single family home there within six months of closing. Deadline to submit a bid to the city clerk is two p.m. April 6th.
Outro And Editorial Integrity Note
SPEAKER_04Well, we thank you for joining us today. Find that one friend of yours that needs to know what's happening here locally so they can listen in, and together we can make our hometown a better place. Reach out to us, tips at cdispatch.com. You can also follow me on Facebook or ex at d Chisholm Double Zero and leave a public comment. Keeping it real here in Catfish Alley Studio and Historic Downtown Columbus, your host has been Zach Plair, and I am David Chisholm. Y'all stay friendly out there.
SPEAKER_01I'm just a simple old country boy, but um I I think that makes sense. I've stepped out and I've said what I had to say.
SPEAKER_04You've been listening to Between the Headlines with Zach and David. That's what old people do.
SPEAKER_00That is This is Peter Rimes, publisher of The Dispatch. One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom. Typically, we try to keep news and opinion separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government, and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners. The dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity, and our reporting will always reflect that.
