Potholes, Plot Holes and Zombie Books

A brand new road gets paved, then a jackhammer shows up and the patch looks worse than what was there before. That frustration kicks off a wide-ranging conversation about Columbus considering a new ordinance that could require permits for utility repairs in the public right-of-way. 

From there, we head to Friendship Cemetery. When records are old, incomplete, or scattered across spreadsheets, books, and public deeds, even buying a cemetery plot can come with unsettling uncertainty. We weigh practical steps the city can take immediately, and the tradeoff of spending real money on ground-penetrating radar to reduce the risk of another painful surprise.

Then we step into politics, asking what fairness looks like when the Southern Poverty Law Center faces federal indictments and pressure lands on Senate candidate Scott Colom to disavow. We break down the difference between direct donations and independent PAC spending, and how narratives get built when campaign finance and national labels collide.

Finally, we bring in guests Max Brallier of The Last Kids on Earth and Emily Liner of Friendly City Books for a hopeful turn: school visits, Title I outreach, and why graphic novels can be a legit on-ramp to lifelong reading, especially for reluctant readers and some dyslexic kids. Subscribe for more local reporting and sharp conversation, share the show with a friend, and leave us a review with your take on what makes a city worth investing in.

Transcript

Cold Open And Week’s Lineup

SPEAKER_01 0:01

I don't know what he has come up with today to talk about. I'm not asking you to hide anything. Yeah. No, put it out there. Let the people see it.

SPEAKER_06 0:10

I've never not worked in a hospital working environment.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

You can't argue with anybody when they're putting facts in your face. Zach, that's a hard question. I have no answer for it. From the opinion page of the commercial dispatch. This is Between the Headlines.

Local Sponsors And Community Events

Utility Permits For Street Repairs

SPEAKER_04 0:29

This week on Between the Headlines, a new city ordinance could require permits for utility repairs. Did you know that is not already a thing in the friendly city? Also, would you like to be buried in Friendship Cemetery? There are caveats. Zach and I'll talk about that. And should Scott Colomb disavow the Southern Poverty Law Center amid their federal indictments? Plenty of things. Also, special guests in the studio today. We have Mr. Matt Brellier, author of the series Last Kids on Earth, and Emily Liner, owner of Friendly City Books. But first. Retirement looks different for everyone, so your plan should be built around you. For over 40 years, Financial Concepts has helped people create retirement strategies that fit their lives. Our team in Columbus takes the time to understand your goals and build a plan that works for you. Wherever you are in your journey, we're ready to help. We plan retirement. Financial Concepts is a registered investment advisor. This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, a bank headquartered right here in Columbus, Mississippi. That means your banking decisions aren't made hundreds of miles away by someone who doesn't know you. They're made here locally by bankers who know your name and care about the community. At Bank First, we're more than bankers. We're your neighbors. Whether we're cheering in the stands, catching up at a local pancake breakfast, or celebrating milestones across our community, we're part of the moments that matter most. Stop by your local Bank First branch or visit BankfirstFS.com to learn more. Bank First is a member FDIC and Equal Housing lender, Bank NMLS 454063. It is time for Columbus's favorite tradition. Join us Saturday, May 2nd from 9 to 5 for the 30th annual Market Street Festival in downtown Columbus. Enjoy over 200 arts, crafts, and food vendors. Enjoy fun activities for the kids, and catch live music on two stages all day long. Fun, food, friends, and festivities. Celebrate 30 years of fun at the award-winning Market Street Festival May 2nd in downtown Columbus. We'll see you in the streets. Welcome to Catfish Alley Studio here in the heart of the friendly city. I am David Chisholm, and across from me is the host, Mr. Zach Player, managing editor of the Dispatch. And the top headline today, Zach, we have proposed a new ordinance that could require permits for utility repairs, something that apparently Columbus does not have. So before we get into it, what what is the requirement and whose idea was it now?

SPEAKER_06 3:19

Okay, so uh the way that I understand it is if you want to put in new, if like you're the gas company or telecommunication or whatever uh utility company you want to go underground uh uh beneath the right-of-way, you've got to have um a permit, certain permits for installing new, but you gotta have access to the stuff that you've installed so you can repair it, whether it's an emergency or scheduled repair or whatever. Um so as it is right now in Columbus, the utilities notify uh Nathan Cotona, hey, we're digging into 7th Street, just wanting to let you know. And there's no momentarily. Yeah, and Nathan is uh was was very adamant about the things that are on the books that they're supposed to do, they're doing. So atmosphere saying, hey, we're gonna be here, here, and here on Tuesday just letting you know.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

They let you know, but but what I'm asking is in theory, could they just go out with a jackhammer right now and pulverize a street that's low traffic and you know because that's what it sounds like if there's nothing on the books to do it.

SPEAKER_06 4:29

Right now there is no permitting process. Okay. And that is what they haven't drafted the ordinance yet, but uh uh Nathan Catona, who's the building department director, uh and Jeff Turnage and and the council are now sort of in a cooperative effort to um uh uh uh draw something up that they can enforce. And uh what they're trying to do, uh what they're specifically trying to get done is they're specifically trying to get better record keeping for uh and better advanced notice and communication for where they're gonna be. Um uh for planning. For planning. And there's a big reason for that that I'll that I'll go back to in a minute. But uh one of the one of the things that's going on the most often is utility will come in, whether it be Atmas, ATT, whomever, um, they'll go and they'll drill a hole in the road, they'll fix their whatever it is underneath that they're needing to fix, and then they'll leave that hole open or they'll leave that hole unpatched until they get enough holes around town to where they can get uh the necessary economies for of scale to get them all patched at the same time cheap on one contract.

SPEAKER_04 5:46

And so the city gets blamed for that.

SPEAKER_06 5:48

The city does get blamed for that. Those are not the city's fault. They're not potholes. They're not potholes. They are utility work holes. And they are utility hole uh utility work holes that are being left open who have been opened by the utility company without a permit, who have and who have been left open for that have been left open for uh an indeterminate period of time that where where the utility company is determining, okay, this is when this is when we'll patch that.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

But for the time being, they just pour some slag in it and move along. Uh maybe. Maybe.

SPEAKER_06 6:23

And well, and so that and so that's the frustration. The other part of this frustration um is this. Uh City comes in, does a four or five million dollar road plan every two years. Okay? So they'll pave a brand new street, they'll pave streets, new overlay on this street, that street, that street. Utility company comes in on brand new asphalt and says, Oh, I got a line under there that needs repair. Hey Nathan, we're fixing to cut into this street that y'all just paved, and then they go right into it.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

And on the phone, they can hear the jackhammers in the background because they've already started on that stuff.

SPEAKER_06 7:02

And so uh and then with very little coordination or very little care or mindfulness, evidently, to what the city's road plan is. Fresh black asphalt. And then they're like, oh, we got a gas line under here that needs repair, jackhammer in. And then, to Rusty Green's point, when they do finally fix it in a month or two, they fix it with this uneven material that's right.

SPEAKER_04 7:29

Everybody's seen it.

SPEAKER_06 7:30

It is it lowers the value of this investment that the taxpayers have already made.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

That's right. My grandpa would say that looks like a monkey's butt sewed shut with a grapevine. Yes. Well, and you know, here's what I see. In Columbus, for the most part, we have concrete sidewalks, asphalt roads. Yeah. Pretty basic stuff. But we're kind of getting fancy now. You know, we've got these things that you're not supposed to run over. We've got traffic circles and we're starting to see bricks and and you know, walking paths here and there. You go to somewhere, I will say, for example, historic downtown Northport, all right, the Kentuck district. A lot of our listeners have been there. You don't go out there and just wheely-nilly dig those bricks up to fix a pipe. If you're gonna plan ahead, you gotta plan ahead. Otherwise, it's always gonna look like a jack leg.

SPEAKER_06 8:26

Right. And and and I don't think that I know that the utility companies and their repair work is important, and I don't think the City of Columbus is not uh arguing with that. They're also not trying to be.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

He does call them by name, though. There it is. I'm looking at it.

SPEAKER_06 8:40

They're not trying to be hostile toward any of the utility companies, but I think it is very reasonable to very clearly define what an emergency is. So when you say, Oh, I've got 29 emergencies, uh, do you have 29 emergencies or do you have one? And if you've got an emergency and a house is gonna blow up if you don't fix it, you gotta get down there whether the road is new or not. And I think I don't think that there's a single person in the situation that doesn't understand that, regardless of how it's put back. But you don't have as many emergencies as I think are being claimed.

SPEAKER_04 9:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:15

That's what you know the council is uh has some heartburn about.

SPEAKER_04 9:19

Regular maintenance.

SPEAKER_06 9:20

They get notified, hey, here's the streets we're gonna pave. So if you have any work to do there, then if you have any scheduled maintenance to do there, please do that now. So why are we not doing that? Why aren't we cool why aren't these utilities coordinating better with the city when essentially what they're doing is they're vandalizing taxpayer investment when they don't do that for their scheduled maintenance. And that's my opinion, but uh then you've got um and then giving them a standard and a requirement. When you do dig into a street, you've got to put it back like you found it. You can't put it back to your specifications, you've got to put it back to our specifications. And I'm I'm really uh I'm really encouraged by the uh fact that Nathan is pursuing this, that the council has seemed to get on board with this, and that uh Nathan is saying, but we want to be fair, we want to be reasonable. We look at Oxford, and Oxford has a 90-page uh ordinance with serious restrictions and serious penalties, and he called it, he's like, uh we feel like that's anti-growth. We want to we we don't want to be anti-growth, but we want to have a balance where we're protecting our our taxpayer investments.

SPEAKER_04 10:37

Yeah. And I'll I'll tell you, this is what the city needs to be looking into, things like this. Because to me, that is a whole heck of a lot more important than who has an RV in their driveway.

SPEAKER_06 10:49

Well, yeah, and they're not gonna they're not gonna do anything about that, I don't think. I think that guy has um they've talked to that guy, said, hey, we're not gonna make an exception. You're just gonna have to you're just gonna have to deal with your RV.

SPEAKER_04 11:00

We gotta get him on here.

SPEAKER_06 11:02

We think he'll come.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

Maybe we'll see. RV guy.

SPEAKER_06 11:05

But um Nathan is actively trying to involve representatives from the utilities that'll be affected. And they need to be a part of that conversation because excuse me, the gas lines are important. The telecommunication lines are important. Making sure they work right is just as much a part of um uh citizens' quality of life as the road you drive on, but not one is more important than the other, so they need to be working together.

Friendship Cemetery Plot Confusion

SPEAKER_04 11:32

Aaron Ross Powell And don't turn routine maintenance into an ad hoc speed bump that was not planned to be there to start with. Correct. All right, Zach. The next headline that really caught my attention had to do Zach. Um do you have any desire whatsoever to be interred into Friendship Cemetery over there?

SPEAKER_06 11:56

Um well, I mean, I've I I don't have a plot over there, and if I bought one, I wouldn't be so certain that it was mine anyway. So um, but or that it was empty.

SPEAKER_04 12:06

So just to give our listeners the backdrop, okay, if you wish to be buried in friendship cemetery, you have to one research a plot, apply for it. They'll look in the database, and if it's available, they'll say, okay, but then this is where it gets interesting. Yeah, they'll take your money.

SPEAKER_06 12:24

Like, remember the part where they take your money.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

They'll they'll they'll take your deposit, but then they say, let's go check it out and make sure. Make sure that this is important. We're gonna make sure that it is available. Okay. And what's interesting to me is their method of making sure said plot is available. Okay. I we were talking about the sonar, but apparently this involves shovels and like a a a poking rod.

SPEAKER_06 12:55

I d I don't know what exactly get in there and poke around a little bit specifically means.

SPEAKER_04 13:03

Is it like when you're you're seeing if a watermelon is ripe, you know, if it makes a a dull thud?

SPEAKER_06 13:09

Something like that. This one's right. Listen, man, uh in fairness to um the city and uh and Regina Bonner, who is the cemetery director, um uh that that's a difficult gig. And and I and and I wanna I I I want to give her credit. Um, she's dealing with very old records. Uh modes. So in mediums. She's yeah, she's got a spreadsheet um on a computer that is accurate-ish. She's got a couple of books over there on the shelf that uh, you know, look like the um uh old newspaper-bound books from the 20s, that the paper is all brown and stuff. Yeah, book of spills or something. Uh you've got um but you've got outside resources like uh Mona Vance, who might can tell you uh some things. Um so when somebody comes in to buy a plot, she's very honest about the fact that this is our best guess that yes, this is your plot now and there's nobody in it. Well, you have to This is our best guess.

SPEAKER_04 14:26

You have to be buried, what is it, seven feet or six feet seven? Six feet, I think. But but And so if there's something down there they can't say, well, you're just gonna be shallower than normal, right?

SPEAKER_06 14:38

I don't think they can. Um and in the situation uh within the past few years uh where uh there was a f a family and they were you know getting the grave dug up for a funeral and Oh yeah, we you made a story on this. Yeah, and then there was that fist coffin down there.

SPEAKER_04 14:55

Oh yeah, the that's the one that had the sight glass where the face was, right?

SPEAKER_06 14:59

Right. So what happened there was those people didn't buy that plot from Regina or the city. They bought that plot from an individual who was selling it, you know, independently.

SPEAKER_04 15:13

They moved out of town.

SPEAKER_06 15:14

Yeah, and then they put an ad in the paper and they bought the, you know, bought the plot.

SPEAKER_04 15:19

Um buyer beware.

SPEAKER_06 15:21

Yeah, and that's how they all found out that there was something in it. And the city, even though I don't know if they had a direct responsibility to make that right, um uh they took measures to make that right and and and and good on them for that. And I hope that it was to the satisfaction of the family. I don't think that uh Miss Bonner, and I don't think the city um views this with a lack of seriousness. It's a difficult issue, and it's one where, you know, in West Point and Startville and w where there are historic cemeteries everywhere, uh there's just that record keeping is not going to be perfect. And and you've gotta you you've you've gotta be mindful of that. But there's a few things that I think that are very easy fixes that they can do now barring an investment, um barring a larger investment. And one of those is um stop selling plots on the historic side of the cemetery. Uh Ms. Bonner herself, when we interviewed her, said we probably shouldn't be doing that. I think that's I think that's good intuition. Don't sell don't quit selling on the historic side of the cemetery. Uh because they've got better records for the newer side of the cemetery and they've got a better idea of what uh of of how not to sell the same light twice.

SPEAKER_04 16:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:39

Um so that would be a really good mitigator.

SPEAKER_04 16:42

Unless you're buying uh one of those lots where they dig it like nine or twelve feet deep and you get like stacked internment. You know, you can do that, right? I I I don't know. I mean, maybe I guess. Well, I mean, if your family gets along good, then that might be an option if they don't. Well, to your point about not selling new lots in the historic district. Well, what if I'm number seven to pass away in my family and num there have been six that have preceded me in death and they're already there. I mean you can't ban it all together, right?

SPEAKER_06 17:15

I mean, that is a good point. And that's a that's a very good point. I feel like I feel like there's gotta be a reasonable place where you can mitigate the chances of error there and keep from having to send a gravedigger out at night to see if they hit see if they hit uh a vault.

SPEAKER_04 17:39

Does our gravedigger drive a bicycle per chance? I'm still wondering where he got that. We don't know.

SPEAKER_06 17:47

That guy got that coffin on the casket guy. That's from that's from years ago. Um but you don't know if two people own the same plot. Um and that's probably even more of a uh a technical issue than the than the somebody than the plot being occupied. Um and I think that I do think that Ms. Bonner's office can do a better job looking at all of the data available before making a decision. She says we look at our spreadsheet, we look at our books, and that's what and and then we make our best guess. Well, uh if somebody thinks that they own a cemetery plot, they've got a deed filed with the Chancery Clerk's office, and that's publicly available, and that should be part of the research process because there shouldn't be two deeds filed on the same plot, and that's something that I feel like is um is is an easy step. It's available online. I mean, that's just something that that should be part of that process. So that's the that's the inexpensive or cost-free ways to just take more time to to do more research and and make a better determination, have better information. So that's just something that should be added to the process. But should, and this is a question because I don't know the answer to it and I don't know what my opinion is on it, but um for them to get ground penetrating uh radar to look at all of the uh to look at all of that ground and identify um everywhere where someone is or something is buried. Um that estimate is gonna that estimate that we were given um from a company that does that kind of work around in in Tupelo that Miss Bonner already has a relationship with, City already has a relationship, the Fuljam Tree Services. Forty grand.

SPEAKER_04 19:48

Forty thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_06 19:49

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

So as a taxpayer, the rod and the hammer.

SPEAKER_06 19:54

If you're a taxpayer, do you spend the forty are you okay with the forty thousand dollars if you never have the Fist Casket incident again as a result? Or um do you just keep doing the best you can with what you have?

SPLC Indictments And Campaign Pressure

SPEAKER_04 20:10

I think it's okay to leave a little bit of grass out there. I mean, you know, this is this is an interesting story. It kind of reminds me when I was six years old, my grandpa would take me to work and he was building a camphouse for Virginia Cox. A lot of our listeners remember Miss Virginia, and she was building an annabellum style camphouse on an Indian mound. Okay, an Indian burial mound, not particularly recommended, but um I just remember my granddad out there and he was trying to drive a stake in the ground, and he was he was muttering a few curse words, talking something about an Indian skull not letting the stake go down. Just saying. That reminded me of some memories right there. Be careful where you build and where you dig. Call 811. Zach, this last story we have before we bring the guests in here is is relatively complicated because it's got some layers to it. Basically, uh for those of you who've been following national news, the Southern Poverty Law Center has been in the headline because they have received federal indictments for um improper wiring, alleged improper wiring of money uh to the very same people um that they claim to be fighting against. And and and the purpose, before we dig into this, the purpose of our segment here today is not to dig into the this or that of the Southern Poverty Law Center. The internet can be the arbiter of those discussions, but where we come into play is Mike Hurst, chairman of the Mississippi GOP. Has called Mr. Scott Colomb, the candidate for Senate, to the table, and he said, Look, we need you to disavow the Southern Poverty Law Center because they've been giving you money, shall we say. Well what do we what do we start with here, Zach?

SPEAKER_06 22:17

Well, um to your point, um it's I I don't think that it's our purview on this show to dig into the veracity of the uh federal indictment against S SPLC. Uh the court system will take care of that in its own right. This is low-hanging fruit for Mike Hurst. He's trying to keep pressure on Scott, he's trying to keep his candidate looking good and the other candidate looking bad. I mean, this is the Republican Party.

SPEAKER_04 22:49

They're supporting Cindy Hyde Smith. Almost like it's politics.

SPEAKER_06 22:52

Right. It is politics. It is politics. And it's very interesting. Mike Hurst never does say SPLC has given money to your campaign. He words it um very specifically.

SPEAKER_04 23:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 23:06

Your campaign has benefited from uh the campaign arm of uh SPLC. No, there's a reason that he words it that way. There's a reason that he words it the way he does, as opposed to SPLC, you're taking money from SPLC and then turning around and you and and and this is what they're doing, so you should disavow them. Scott Cologne has received direct donations from uh in the amount of fourteen hundred dollars. Okay, um from two um SPLC employees, one from Mississippi, one from Maryland. Um they donated him as individuals, but you know, if I were to donate to a campaign, uh which which I don't I don't generally do that, but if I were to donate to a campaign, I would have to put Zach Plair, managing editor, the commercial dispatch. That's not the commercial dispatch given to whomever I would give to. That's Zach Plair doing it, and I have to list my occupation. So those are the direct contributions that are tangentially related to the SPLC that Scott Colomb has received according to his Federal Election Commission reports that he has filed. Now the PAC the that is associated with the Southern Poverty Law Center has spent eleven thousand eight hundred and four dollars since January first of twenty-five, between January first of twenty-five and March thirty-first of this year. Eleven thousand eight hundred and four dollars in support of Scott Cologne.

SPEAKER_04 24:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 24:41

Um and they've spent seventy-five thousand nine hundred and twenty-two dollars and seventy-four cents in efforts to oppose Cindy Hyde Smith. Now these are this is money that uh Scott doesn't have any direct control over. He may not even know about what they're doing. Um they legally can't communicate with him. They make the decisions of what who they're gonna oppose and how they're gonna oppose and who they're gonna support and how they're gonna support them. Yeah, the muddy waters of how that works.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

Sure. So what I'm hearing from you is that that there's not necessarily a smart connection between that. But there there is not necessarily other than let me ask you this. In in the state of Mississippi, if you are a black Democrat, is it just automatically assumed that you are in cahoots with the NAACP, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and other similar organizations?

SPEAKER_06 25:38

I think that there's considerably more nefarious things that are assumed that that are not true. Um there's not anything overtly the matter with being associated with the NAACP. Um there's nothing overtly the matter with being the ACLU.

SPEAKER_04 25:58

And I'm not making the statement that it is, but what I'm asking you is, is it fair for Mike Hurst to assume that because he's a black Democrat that he is guilty by association with being tied to SP.

SPEAKER_06 26:16

Super PAC numbers. Yeah, those super PAC numbers, and and he's trying to put political pressure on the opposition candidate to the one that he's endorsing, uh to change the narrative and make I mean it's a it's a political play, and that's fine. That's fine. I don't think Scott should bite. Because the the numbers are on his side.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

He doesn't have he should bite. And I'll tell you why. If I'm talking for his own political advantage, he has painted himself out to be a moderate Democrat, one that is in touch with the people of Mississippi. And I think if he um wants to do something to make some noise, make some headlines, and stand up in opposition to um not necessarily in opposition, but just create some distance between himself and an or organization that's facing very heavy scrutiny right now. That's just a lot of people.

SPEAKER_06 27:10

Well, I I have a requirement to this, but keep talking.

SPEAKER_04 27:13

I got one for you. I think that would uh benefit him politically. I do.

SPEAKER_06 27:19

I um believe in our justice system, and a federal indictment is a federal indictment, and I agree that a federal indictment needs to be adjudicated through our justice system. And I'm again, I'm not here to talk about the veracity of that indictment. What I am saying is an indictment is a charge and you're innocent until you're proven guilty. Where was the Mike Hearst email disavowing the president when he was convicted for 34 felonies? There is a cognitive dissonance here for the light most favorable to uh the position that you want to take. And I don't know whether you get that cognitive dissonance chip installed, whether it's at the DMV or whether you meet at the Masons and you put a cup in a bowl. But for you to say nothing, nothing about somebody who's been through the justice system, been convicted of 34 felony counts. Convicted, convicted. Um say nothing about that, think nothing about that, delegitimize that entirely because you don't want to think about it. But George Soros, who's never been even indicted for anything, is the devil, and Scott Colomb is the devil because he uh he is associated with him tangentially. And oh now we've got the SPLC, and this is this is convenient, this is juicy, let's let's tag him for that. That that that's that's dirty pull. And and and and if you believe something one time, you're supposed to believe it every time. So this indictment, this indictment is an indictment, and it's fine. And if Southern Poverty Law Center is convicted, if there are people who go to jail and Scott Cologne doesn't have a statement on that, condemning them under those circumstances, then I would be disappointed in Scott.

SPEAKER_04 29:10

To your point, I think a lot of people are are binary in the way that they they think of things. And and and I think one of the things that really makes this incendiary for people on the right is is the simple fact that it's convenient for them. No, it it's deeper than that. It has to do with with an organization that has taken businesses and people and organizations and has placed a label upon them. Maybe they they don't believe fully in um I don't know, affirmative action or DEI or something to that effect, and therefore they get labeled as racists or bigots. And and they place these labels, they did it to Charlie Kirk, and he's no longer with us. So there's a lot of rage generated at the Southern Poverty Law Center, and then you look on the news and there is not simply an allegation, but an indictment saying that they funneled money through uh ghost companies to the imperial wizard of the Klu Klux Klan. That's pretty spicy and it's pretty damning.

SPEAKER_06 30:24

Yet another example of cognitive dissonance when you um are saying that the that the Southern Poverty Law Center is the only one who deals in those kinds of things and that there aren't people on the right doing the same thing. Gabby Giffords would like a word, and that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Author Visit And Bookstore Spotlight

SPEAKER_04 30:41

All right, and when Scott Cologne says breaks his silence, maybe we'll have him on the show again. I think he'll come. That would be festive. All right, we'll take a break. Bring in the guests. Thanks for staying with us. Since 1935, Lowndes Farm Supply has supported the Greater Columbus Trade Area with products and knowledge for the farm, ranch, and garden markets, along with lawn, hunting supplies, outdoor clothing, and boots. Go check them out at 69 Co-op Road in Columbus. Thanks for staying with us on this episode here in Catfish Alley Studio. Right now we are pleased to have in here Mr. Max Browlier, who is the author of the series Last Kids on Earth, which has made it to Netflix, come to find out. Also a recent spin-off, The Last Comics on Earth, and also Miss Emily Liner, owner of Friendly City Books. Thank you both for being here today. Thanks. Thanks for having us. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 31:38

Well, Max, you've been uh but you've been enjoying the Golden Triangle for a couple of days. Now tell us uh uh you visited the schools and the libraries in the area yesterday. Uh how was that for you?

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Yesterday we did uh it's been great. We did uh four schools, two libraries, um, and they were great. Yeah, really. Uh kids are wonderful, librarians are wonderful, schools are wonderful. Um bookstore is okay, so so uh it's been it's been really great.

SPEAKER_06 32:06

Well, I guess what's your favorite part when you get out doing this kind of outreach and and and meeting with uh kids that may have been reading your books, or maybe you're introducing them to them for the first time. What's that experience like for you? What what's sort of the the reaction that you get there?

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Um I mean it's it's it's it's a great experience. My favorite part is like of uh probably being an author is talking to kids and doing school visits. And um you know, I spent a lot of time just sort of like locked away somewhere writing, and then when something comes out, it's nice to go and get a reaction and and actually see people who read books to read the books. Um the kids have been really, really great. I um there was uh a real um awareness of the books ahead of time, which was good. Um and um they all seem to respond well to you know what I say when I do my little song and dance slideshow thing. Um yeah, yeah, it's been really good.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

Do you think that kids these days read as much as they used to? I've always been worried about this now that we've transitioned to the gadgetry and the phones. I feel like we live in a post-literate society. You're an author. How is I mean, how's the market been with the younger generation?

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Aaron Powell It's it's uh it's strange. It's um I don't know what the word I'm looking for is, but it is they use kids used to read lots of different things. Like, you know, I would even a couple of years ago, I would go and I'd be like when I sign books, I'd you talk to the kids and I'll ask, like, oh, what are you reading and would you like to read? And it used to be a wide, decently wide variety of things. Um it's now like one or two different series that they all seem to read. Um you get lucky if they say it's mine, because mine's not one of those one or two. Um so it's like a real what is the word? Like a s shrinking of the sort of the range. The range, like of what they they take in.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

Um so has it gone more to uh nonfiction, to fiction, to um it's just a lot, it's a lot of graphic novels.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Um which is are great. I write graphic novels. But I think it's uh it's better when there's some sort of range in what you're reading.

SPEAKER_06 34:28

Aaron Ross Powell Well and w one thing, and um there is a split in uh my house, I'll I'll be honest with you. I'm more of the old style and and my my wife is an English teacher who uh says reading is reading and and and we don't judge. But um you know, and we have a 11-year-old who's uh you know into getting into novels but still uh really enjoys the graphic novels. I guess uh how how what has been the reaction, I guess, from from parents to you about you know the the graphic novel genre and how that fits into uh promoting literacy in young people? I mean how important is that to have?

SPEAKER_02 35:12

That's a good question. Uh from parents, I don't get a lot like a much reaction. I don't have from parents, I it's less of a you know, if if someone com if I go to a s if I go to a school, I don't end up seeing the parents, right? Right. And if it's like a library thing, the parents are probably not gonna be there if they're not into what I'm writing. Um But for so for last kids on earth, that's a mixture of prose and illustrations. And I actually I really like that format because you're still reading paragraphs and you still have to you you're still imagining like you know, you're forming pictures in your head of what you're reading. Um you're exercising that part of it. Um like with my so my daughter just turned nine, um and like at her so she likes um she likes Wimpy Kid. Um but like at her school, they have like a certain amount of reading that they do every day, and it can't be graphic. Uh they can read whatever they want to read after, you know, for for fun. But it's like the the 25 minutes or something she has to do every evening has to be uh more traditional um traditional prose. Um it's a it's a weird it's a it's complicated it's complicated and then um there's like lots of science and research about it that I don't totally know or uh that I don't know enough about. But I think a balance between the two is great. I think um that sort of reading is reading quote there, he says like that um I I I worry sometimes you went so far on that.

SPEAKER_04 36:52

Yeah, I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_06 36:54

Well I mean you're in the bookstore world, Emily, and you're I mean you're promoting books and you're selling books in your store, and I know that graphic novels are are are taking up a lot more of that uh uh children's reading market. I mean, what do you say uh with that?

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Um you know, when I from time to time we have parents come in who say, my kids just uh aren't into reading. I just can't get them to read. And then eventually I will hear them say a few minutes later, well, I don't let them read graphic novels. And you know, when you hear those two statements in close-we might have identified the problem, yeah. Yeah. And so I always describe um graphic novels as a gateway to reading um because it gets kids who might not read otherwise to pick up a book. And once they have the muscle memory of opening a book, reading the first chapter, and continuing the book, then they might go to something that's a little bit more traditional or something that's more mixed. Like I think something like the last kids on earth with the mixture of illustrations and um and writing um is a great next step once you've gotten your kids interested in graphic novels. But I will say one other thing that I've learned about graphic novels that I didn't know before. A lot of them, the font style that's used for the quotations is actually more dyslexic friendly than traditional fonts for books.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

I didn't know that either.

SPEAKER_03 38:22

Yeah. So um, a lot of kids who have struggled with reading, it turns out, you know, maybe that's actually the problem. And that is something that helps them overcome.

SPEAKER_06 38:32

Palatino Leno-type. Well, you know, I'm a bit of a I'm a bit of a convert on this, uh, on this issue because I used to be, you know, that hardliner old school with my uh with with Amelia like yapping at me all the time. It doesn't matter what they're reading, as long as they're reading, no, no, no, no. And then uh she got me mouse.

SPEAKER_05 38:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 38:50

And I and I and I read through that and I I didn't lose a thing. And I really enjoyed uh that experience. And so I I will read graphic novels now from time to time myself.

SPEAKER_03 39:02

And so I, you know, I'm glad you mentioned that because graphic novels are also for adults, and it's actually one of our most popular um genres at the bookstore. And for those of you who are listening, uh the book Zach reference is Mouse M-A-U-S. Um and it's probably one of the biggest graphic novels of all time. Um for good reason. Yeah. It's uh based on the author's experience in the Holocaust.

Building Last Kids On Earth

SPEAKER_06 39:27

Absolutely. Well, uh Max, tell tell us a little bit, without spoilers, uh about the uh Last Kids on Earth and the kind of the synopsis of the spin-off series. You know, what it's about, kind of how what inspired you to write it, those sorts of things.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Aaron Powell So The Last Kids on Earth, uh I've been writing it for it's the 10th anniversary of the first book now. Uh just freaks me out a little bit. Uh uh it's basically like an fun apocalypse, like a fun end of the world situation where uh it's about a kid who's a foster child and never really feels like he fits in and doesn't have a real home, and he wants a he wants this group of buddies that he's sort of always imagined having.

SPEAKER_04 40:09

Probably why my kids enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Yeah, that could be it.

SPEAKER_04 40:13

No parents.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

No parents. Um and so uh and then one day he's on the way to school and these portals open up and zombies and monsters appear. And pretty soon it's him um and his one one buddy. Uh they're the only kids, it seems, left left in town. And then um then they send out and they find two other friends, and they can sort of do all the things that you can't do when you're a kid because it's illegal for good reason. Like they you know, they they drive go-karts to through the shopping mall and um stuff like that.

SPEAKER_06 40:46

Yes, all sorts of things. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Catapults, uh yes, all like all the things, gadgets and um and so uh uh but then they have to uh sort of end up sort of trying to save what's left of our world. Um so it's like a sort of wish fulfillment fantasy with a lot of action, um monsters and a lot of like it's a lot of friendship. It's like really about finding a the group of people that you've always wanted. Um and um and then the last The Last Comics on Earth is a spin-off about like in between battling monsters and trying to save the world, the kids sit down and do what I did when I was a kid and they draw comics and um like they'll they take turns, like, I'm gonna draw this one, you write that one, and then and then they imagine themselves uh they create a comic series where they imagine themselves as like these sort of goofy, weird superheroes in a very strange world. Um and they and uh yeah, that that's very sort of bright and colorful and silly and fun um and funny. Last Last Kids on Earth is also it's like funny and mostly lighthearted, but it's gets a little bit serious too, whereas Last Comics on Earth is just like uh throwing everything at the wall.

SPEAKER_04 41:56

Okay. So I've got a couple of questions about that. When you talk to the kids in the schools and the libraries, do they recognize your work from the books more or do they recognize it from the Netflix series? And second to that, I want to know, did Netflix miss the mark? Like, did they embody your work properly or or is there some things that you could um say, well, I didn't really mean for it to come out like that?

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Um they uh let's see, that's good. I think it's a maybe half and half between the books and the Netflix series when I go to schools and what they recognize. Um it depend it depends like if it's um you know a school with like a lot of readers, then it'll maybe be on the book side if it's um if it's if it's a school, it's like you know, less so, then um you get more of awareness from Netflix. Um when Netflix did this series, I was I was lucky, I got very lucky, I got to be very involved in it. So um like I was uh one of uh five five writers on it, and I had a lot of say in the story and stuff. So um anywhere that they miss the mark, it's my fault. Like which is like sort of the thing that I remember when it we first started doing it, and you know, yes, you hear like sort of like stories about someone takes someone's book and adapts it and it turns into some. Bastardizing. And I was like, oh, that'd be that'd be the worst. But then once I was doing it and I was really involved in it, I realized um well now I lose the ability to blame anybody else if it's no good. So I was like, oh man.

SPEAKER_04 43:36

Well you could blame the CGI.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

Yeah, I could blame I could I could just make up some you know Steve messed it up. Um but like yeah, so it it became it was very stressful because I was like, oh wait, now it's like I don't have that rem removal from it. Um but um but I we I'm very proud of the show. Uh we uh it was it's pretty close to the books, which the we did the first three books. Um And uh yeah, and it came out sort of basically what I would have hoped for.

SPEAKER_04 44:05

Maybe they'll turn it into a pinball machine next.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

That's what I would we did toys. We did action figures, which was awesome. We did a video game, we did not do a pinball machine, which I would like. I have like a lot of arcade machines. Not a lot. I have like one big arcade machine in my house and like a like a tabletop Pac-Man, Miss Pac-Man. Um pinball machines I've like wanted for a long time. I want the Indiana Jones, the the that trilogy one. Stranger Things. Oh, actually, I played that. That's good. Um they're just so heavy. Like there's like no place in my I we I can't fit it. They're too big and they're too heavy. And also, I'm really bad at pinball as much as I love pinball machines. I'm awful at pinball.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

I now regret that I didn't introduce Max to Colin Krieger while we were here. I guess I still have a few hours left. He's uh man about town and he's got an an arcade. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 44:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Um but can I share a few impressions from the visits? Because just uh, you know, piggy.

SPEAKER_06 44:57

Well, I wanted to ask you first, uh, how did you guys I mean I know that through your foundation, you're making a lot of connections. You're bringing a lot of folks into town uh that uh you know you know authors and opportunities for for kids and adults to have uh to have interface with folks that are on the front of these books that are New York Times bestsellers like like like Max here. So how how did you guys get connected? And I guess how are you how are you doing that?

SPEAKER_03 45:25

Well, thank you. I mean, we were really lucky in this case in that Max's publisher reached out to us because they said um Max's publisher reached out to us and said, we are doing a tour of the American South. And um, he was in Louisiana before this. He's going to Georgia next. And his publisher in New York actually recognized the landmass with between New Orleans and Mobile. Mississippi. So yeah, you know, Columbus is perfectly positioned between New Orleans and Atlanta. I always tell people we're equally inconvenient to New Orleans and Atlanta. But in this case, it worked out for us. And um we've been able to do this about once a year. We've been able to bring in a big children's author. Uh, we've done Angie Thomas before. Um, we did Andy Harkness before, who actually has uh Starkville roots and was from California. So one thing I would do, I always make sure to do when we do these events is tell the kids before the speaker begins where they're coming from. Because a lot of these kids, I mean, haven't been on an airplane, let alone gone to California. You know? So when I say we have he's created a Netflix show, he's created the book that's in your hands, and he came here from California to meet you. I think it really reson sets in with them like this is a big deal.

SPEAKER_06 46:43

Right. Well, uh yeah. So what have what have been your impressions then, I guess, from the visit?

SPEAKER_03 46:50

Yeah. So, you know, and I I have the kids raise their hands if they are familiar with the show, they're familiar with the books. And at every school, um, you know, kids recognize the books. Um, we had one librarian at Cook Elementary who got every book she had in the library that Max wrote and had them all on display.

SPEAKER_05 47:08

Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

And some of the kids drew their own like comics that for their their welcome sign that said, Welcome, Max, and um like some kids contributed to it. It was really cool. One kid gave you a comic or an illustration, which was really cool. And then um when we went- It was good, too.

SPEAKER_05 47:26

It was really good.

SPEAKER_03 47:26

Yeah oh nice. Well, and then when we went to the libraries, that's where we had like the super fans who came out. And we went to Starkville last night, and the kids who were there when we opened for QA, every single kid had their hand up. And I will never forget this. The first little girl that Max called on, she asked him, dead serious, can zombies climb ladders? Because she was born at quickly. Because she was so worried about the integrity of the tree house.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

And I was worried, I was like, oh, did I at one point say they can't? And then probably in another book, but four four years later I had them climbing ladders. I'm gonna get caught in some sort of trap here.

SPEAKER_06 48:06

Well, what what question do you get when you're doing these kinds of things? What question do you get the most?

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Um what's my favorite book that I've written? I get all the time, but I don't have a good answer. I shouldn't make up an answer. Um because I never have a good one.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

I always think I'm choosing among your children. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:24

Your next one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

That is the one that I'll try to. The next one's really good. If you pre-order it, you'll you should you'll be happier with. Um I always say the first uh the lot first last kids book is like sort of the most special to me um out of the books I've written. Um I get a lot of Do I play Fortnite? So now I answer that ahead of time.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

Video games in general.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Yeah, a lot of video games stuff. So now I start my presentation talking about that because I get it out of the way. Um Are you famous? No. Um Are you rich? No. Um Not sure I believe in the two things. Um Yeah. But I think what what uh uh uh how long does it take to write a book, and they're always shocked by you know uh nine months or so, I said.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Which ironically, I'm shocked that you actually are so productive and efficient.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

I'm not. I'm shocked that you think that I am.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

How many books do you have coming out next year? Two, three, three. See, he's got three books coming out next year. I don't believe that either.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Like uh like 97% of the way to a mental breakdown. Um to go. You're good. Believe me.

SPEAKER_06 49:38

Well, let me ask you this one then. Um what's your favorite book that you've read?

SPEAKER_02 49:44

I don't have a good answer to that either. Um so by my daughter is just turned nine, and it's usually whatever we're reading together. That's like my favorite. Um like we do. Like I'll she's a good reader, but I still like I like to read to her at night. Um and so let's see, we did we did Sideways Stories and Wayside School recently.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

Oh, that's a classic.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

So I had read this. I think I'd only read maybe the because he wrote one in in the 70s, one in the 80s, one in the 90s, one in the aughts. I didn't realize that. There were four decades. And so the one in the 90s came out when I was a kid. Um and we went back and read them all, and it's amazing. It's now like my favorite thing ever. Um so so those we really, really loved. Um Squirrel Girl comics are amazing. Um like in my spare like when I'm just like swapping around, I like I like on more learned a lot. He's my favorite author. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

Do you find yourself reading more children's literature or adult literature?

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Um children's because of like reading like bedtime stuff. N in my spare time, um uh it's adult. Yeah. Yeah. It's only I don't I I feel like any it for any like children's stuff that I feel like I should read, like like should I should be aware of who this author is or whatever, I like force it into bedtime.

SPEAKER_03 51:05

Oh, that's hard. Two birds once them, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:09

That's that efficiently exactly. But then she never wants to read whatever. She only likes funny stuff. And like like so, like like I was like, I would uh I wanted to read the one on the Iving because I hadn't read it. And she's like, nope. She's like, she just likes goofy stuff.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

There are some books like that. I just take one look at the cover and I'm like, I can't read this without breaking down in tears. And that's one of those things.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

Yeah, she's just like, I don't boring me. Like I think this is I want something silly, I want something fun. It's funny.

SPEAKER_06 51:36

Was there anything either one of you guys want to add?

SPEAKER_03 51:39

Well, you know, one reason why our nonprofit does this outreach to our local schools is all of our schools here, all of our public schools in this region are Title I schools. And here in Columbus, every child is on free lunch. Um so they don't get these chances the the way that kids in major metro areas do, um, or kids in the suburbs do. Um and so this is a really special opportunity when we're able to expose them to an author and give them a role model of who they could be and what they could do when they when they grow up.

SPEAKER_04 52:15

Okay. So your your foundation is the Friendly City Book Foundation. Aaron Powell Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

So we've got the Friendly City Books Um Foundation, which we're working on becoming an independent 501c3. And um in 2023, we started a special project at the Create Foundation, and that's the Friendly City Books Community Connection. And one day, those two things are going to be the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 52:39

Great. And your bookstore is right there near Coffee on Fifth.

SPEAKER_03 52:43

Coffee House on Fifth. There are landlords now, and that's great. We love being next to each other.

SPEAKER_04 52:47

I wanted to ask have you talked to Grandpa Hull yet about putting something in Columbus place? I mean, he's looking for the right.

SPEAKER_03 52:55

I am so excited about the Aldi. That is a game changer.

SPEAKER_06 53:00

You saw how she diverted. Oh, yeah, yeah. Right there. Well, we thank we call that evasion. Let's pivot.

SPEAKER_04 53:08

You gotta learn to do that here in Catfish Alley Studio.

SPEAKER_03 53:11

I used to work in politics.

Three Local Updates To Know

SPEAKER_04 53:15

We thank both of you for being here. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Our special guests have been Max Browlier and Emily Liner. You're listening to between the headlines. All right, Zach. Three things we need to know.

SPEAKER_06 53:29

All right. Number one, Pilgrimage saw a substantial increase in ticket sales this year, according to the Columbus Lounge Convention and Visitors Bureau, with about a thousand tickets sold compared to roughly 750 in 2025. The annual tales from the Crip performances at Friendship Cemetery, those are the ones presented by the MSMS history students, drew eleven hundred and sixty-eight spectators over four nights. Number two, in sad news, a worker was killed Tuesday night at the new processed steel plant in Lowndes County. Elijah Jones, 20, apparently became stuck in a machine on the slitter line and died from blunt force trauma, according to the coroner. OSHA is investigating the accident. Number three. Oh, this is exciting. David, we gotta go. Guess who's back? Back again. Rubens on the River is expected to reopen July 1 under new ownership and management. Frank Loftus has partnered with TBT butcher shop owner Artie Sutherland, who also runs wait for this, Shrimp Pimp LLC to reopen the Friendly City Eater. It closed last August after 70 years of operation.

SPEAKER_04 54:42

Shrimp Pimp. There are so many places I could take that, but I shall not. It's been good to be here in the studio today. Here, Zach. Thank you as always for listening. Reach out to us, tips at cdispatch.com. You can also follow me on Facebook or X at the Chisholm Double Zero and leave a public comment. Keeping it real here in Catfish Alley Studio and Historic Downtown Columbus. Your host has been Zach Plair, and I am David Chisholm. Y'all stay friendly out there.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

I'm just a simple old country boy, but um I think that makes sense. I've stepped out and I've said what I had to say.

SPEAKER_04 55:20

You've been listening to Between the Headlines with Zach and David. That's what old people do.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

That is Peter Imes, publisher of The Dispatch. One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom. Typically, we try to keep news and opinions separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government, and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners. The Dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity, and our reporting will always reflect that.