Reps. Rob Roberson & Andy Boyd Discuss Future of MSMS, MUW

We bring two sitting Mississippi legislators into the studio for a candid discussion about what’s really happening with the Mississippi School for Mathematics and Science: why a top-tier STEM residential school can post big academic wins while students and staff deal with aging buildings, unreliable heating and air, and years of deferred maintenance. We keep the focus on facts, tradeoffs, and what “good stewardship” of Mississippi tax dollars should look like when the stakes are kids’ daily lives. 

From there, the conversation widens to the Mississippi University for Women and the political gravity around university consolidation. With a shrinking population and tight budgets, we ask what happens to smaller campuses and whether the state saves money by closing schools or just creates new problems when buildings and communities are left behind. We also dig into collaboration and program overlap, including how shared services and smarter specialization could reduce duplication without turning education into a winner-take-all fight between Columbus and Starkville. 

We finish by taking on K-12 consolidation and the emotional core of it: schools aren’t just buildings, they’re community identity. You’ll hear a blunt debate over incentives versus mandates, administrative bloat, trust in government, and why technology and online learning can’t replace a real teacher in a real room. If you care about Mississippi education funding, MSMS, MUW, and the future of public schools, hit subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave us a review with your take on what should happen next.

Transcript

Cold Open And Education Stakes

SPEAKER_03 0:01

I don't know what he has come up with today to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

I'm not asking you to hide anything. Yeah. No, put it out there.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Let the people see it.

SPEAKER_06 0:10

I've never not worked in a hostile working department.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

You can't argue with anybody when they're putting facts in your face.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Zach, that's a hard question. I have no answer for it. From the opinion page of the commercial dispatch.

SPEAKER_05 0:24

This is Between the Headlines is Mississippi University for Women on the chopping block. You are listening to a special edition of Between the Headlines here in Catfish Alley Studio. And today we will talk with the key players in the Mississippi legislature. We'll talk about MSMS. We'll talk about the W. Other schools. You don't want to miss today's special

Local Sponsors And Supporters

SPEAKER_05 0:50

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Why MSMS Sparks A Fight

SPEAKER_05 1:58

We are pleased to have in the studio today for the very first time two sitting members of the legislature. We have across the table from me the gentleman from Lounge, Mr. Andy Boyd, representing New Hope and Lounge County and other parts of the area. Also, Mr. Rob Robertson, District 43. That's Octibihawk County and surrounding areas. I won't get into the Mississippi State. Oh my goodness, the the maps. If you want to see the maps, you'll just have to look them up. It gets kind of crazy. But we are. Well, it it just it's bad. But look, we're so glad to have both of you guys here taking time out of your busy schedule to talk education. That's high on the agenda today. Mr. Boyd is co-chair of a select committee on specialty schools.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Right. Which MSMS is considered one of those.

SPEAKER_05 2:51

Yeah, and Mr. Roberts is on that committee. Mr. Robertson is co-chair of a committee on consolidation. So lots to talk about here.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

So I want to jump right in. You guys have uh both been uh quoted in the dispatch multiple times in uh very opposite positions on the future of MSMS and uh uh Mr. Boyd Homefield Advantage here and as the co-chair of that committee. I mean what is the point of the Select Committee on Specialty Schools as you envision it? And how do you think that that should affect MSMS, its location, its funding, its future?

SPEAKER_06 3:38

Well, I'm gonna take Rob out and we'll go from there. No.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Look. To dinner.

SPEAKER_06 3:45

Yeah, to dinner.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

We're gonna go out to dinner.

SPEAKER_06 3:48

Well, my wife tells me I'll ramble and I'll tell everybody that. And so I brought some notes that I think maybe as a community, and Rob and I talk about this a lot. We're really not on opposite sides of the table. Rob loves kids. In fact, I'm gonna brag on him. Uh I think it's 455,000 kids in public education, and Rob chairs that committee. And so I want to kind of bring this down to the 250-ish for at least for five minutes or so here for the kids at MSMS. And maybe be a little bit more focused. And so I brought some notes, and uh I thought maybe we could talk about that in some unison and and maybe find some facts that uh people aren't aware of.

SPEAKER_05 4:29

It's about 250 kids, these are juniors and seniors.

SPEAKER_06 4:32

Juniors and seniors at MSMS from all over the state of Mississippi. Um, we'd love to see it expanded. Actually, in fact, we talked about that in in session. We had a bill before us that got hijacked some kind of way. You know, maybe in a lot of things to talk about there. But I want to I want to be focused in dot. And I I wrote my first question here, why do we need to talk about fixing MSMS? And this is they might need some tender-loving care, but listen to this. MSMS has a budget of 6.1 million dollars, 232 students, 15 national merit finalists this past year. I've got four other sister state type schools, $12.2 million budget, 300-ish, 302 kids, three national merit finalists, a sister state, sister school, $13.7 million budget, 404 kids, seven national merit scholars, uh finalists, another state, $34 million budget, 250-ish kids, four national merit finalists.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

I'm assuming we're talking about Alabama, Arkansas, possibly. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 5:52

Another state, $15.7 million, 280-ish kids, five National Merit Scholars.

SPEAKER_05 5:59

That's a lot of bang for your buck right there. That's a lot of accomplishment. And and with I mean, pennies on the dollar, if you ask me, do you disagree with that, Rob?

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Well, my biggest issue is that that we to suggest that we don't have smart kids that are deserving that that that is another brainer. I mean, we we both agree that that we're getting a lot of bang for a buck. But here's the reality.

Funding Blame And Building Decay

SPEAKER_02 6:22

We were putting these kids in, in my opinion, pretty bad situations to live in.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

We have uh buildings over there that are falling apart. That and that's that's got a lot of contributors in this. The state of Mississippi has ignored uh the the needs that are there. Now, the the the gorilla in the room, so to speak, when you're dealing with this is how does that connect into to MUW? How does that connect into your local community? And you have to have all of those pieces of that puzzle brought in to to help and f reinforce those types of situations. And that comes down to a leadership issue sometimes at the the the city, county, and the university level.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

So is the city, county, and university not providing the funds to build better buildings at MSMS?

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Well, I haven't seen any. I I mean, but the state of the state hasn't. Right? Whose responsibility is it? Well, the reality is it's all of our responsibilities. It's not just the state's responsibility. So the bottom line is, which is part of the reason we're getting into the this conversation about specialty schools and how do we make them better. We're talking about expanding that whole idea across the state. And we have two very good ones that we're we have examples of, but I'm not proud of the way these these examples have developed themselves out. My position is if we don't have conversations, and these are hard conversations, it's about money. And when you start talking about money, you start talking about the nitty-gritty as to how this is going to operate, how this is going to work. And sometimes you have to have an agitator come in and start scrubbing the top layer of what we're trying to accomplish. Absolutely, and I don't mind being that agitator. If we don't do this, we won't have these schools in the future. That's just the reality that we face. And that means as communities, we come together and say, okay, how do we want to approach this? What do we need? What's the game plan? And we really haven't done a good job of that, we honestly. Um now, I think that we're starting to. I think that's make it a lot of things.

SPEAKER_06 8:31

Absolutely. And uh and I I want to thank Speaker White, Jason, as I would call him, maybe I I'll, you know, in in this, in this, in this landscape, uh friend of mine, friend of Rod's for sure, and uh allowed for this committee to to to uh to come about. And and uh I was actually thanking him for some money that he'd given uh the state had given MSMS this year to uh a little extra money, and uh he said, What do you think about a select committee? And so I thought it was a great idea. And and so but I want to go back and talk about funding. You know, what it's state money, it's our tax money, and I think we should be learn to be and should have been and should be always good stewards of that money. And uh, you know, to say that, you know, you've been bad, well, you're the one that funded us. I I would say who's responsible for that funding for the last 30, 40 years, and uh and to say that, you know, since we haven't given you the right amount of investment, in fact it's $7.9 million over the last since 1994 in in all those schools, uh all those buildings over there, and say we're gonna let that fall down and become a desert and say, here's $100 million or whatever the number is, we're gonna build some new buildings. We might have some disagreement there, but I I just I don't feel like it would be the right thing to do. It would be the right steward of our money. I I think we could find some uh construction management type people, have hard conversations. I I do appreciate the conversations. And Rob and I talk about this all the time as friends.

SPEAKER_05 10:03

We love kids, and uh, you know, maybe we could spend thirty million dollars, repurpose, remodel buildings, and Nora Miller's proposal was a heck of a lot cheaper than the proposal that came out of Mississippi State. Do you disagree with that?

SPEAKER_02 10:17

I disagree with the reality that MUW has got other issues besides MSMS. And we can get into that bigger conversation, but that goes into your other committee. That's it just is what it is, and and I don't know where that's gonna land. One of the questions you have to ask yourself is if you were dealing with something at your own home property and there was a building out on your property that you didn't know whether or not you were gonna keep or not, are you gonna invest in it?

SPEAKER_05 10:45

Yeah, I mean the historical societies definitely do make us hang on to these buildings and make us pay a lot of money for restorations that they're not really that pretty, and frankly, some of them aren't really that historical. I think we maybe need to have a conversation about loosening some of those restrictions.

SPEAKER_06 11:05

I think we just had a chance to come out leadership, did we not? We did, we did. Yeah, yeah. Well I wanna I wanna I want to say one more thing. I'm I'm I'll kind of shut up and let maybe y'all talk a little bit. But I the reality is well, two things. My oldest son, Lee, I hate to bring him up here, but you know, he went to EMCC back. Well, he's 43 and played baseball down there, you know, in in a dormitory situation that maybe wasn't the best, but I he would tell you those two years. If you're listening, Lee, make sure make sure you you say this. Uh, those are the two best years of his of his life. I mean, they they they built relationships long term. So I don't think sometimes brand new sparkling buildings and cars and and whatever you want to call it are are the best thing for our children. I think taking care of them. It spoils them.

SPEAKER_05 11:54

I mean, they need air conditioning. They do.

SPEAKER_06 11:55

They do need air conditioning.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

And to your point, we have had major AC issues for this this whole time that I've been chairman anyway.

SPEAKER_06 12:02

But let me let me let me run this by you.

Small Fixes Versus New Campuses

SPEAKER_06 12:04

Because I've talked to some validation people at uh MSMS in the last week or so and and you know, and try to encourage them to stay encouraged. And and uh but I I got a list of items from uh an MSMS person of wants and I'm back up. I went through two weeks ago and wound up in the robotics room, and I can't pronounce this teacher's name, and uh had students in there, and I said, What would make you happy? And I'm sitting there thinking, she's gonna need a you know, $100,000, half a million dollars. And she said, five thousand dollars. Took me back. I'm sitting there thinking, you're kidding me that I we can't find five thousand dollars. Five thousand dollars. So I got a list on it for her robotics lab. Okay, just equipment and things like that. Equipment and stuff like that. Five thousand dollars. So I got a list of items from another person at MSMS. It was 33 items total of wants and needs, and they they they all weren't equipment, but I mean just 33 items. Uh it totaled $388,000. Let me say this. If you took out three of the items, those three items were $200,000. No, $300,000. So 88 30 items totaled $88,000. I'm sitting here thinking, would that not make everyday teaching environment a lot better? And and that that's on me. That's on us, that's on our local community, you know. Uh what you just said. I think sometimes we need to be aware of these things. So 33 items total 388, 30 items totaled.

SPEAKER_05 13:51

So what I'm hearing is surgical fixes as opposed to the big sledgehammer. Maybe so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

What do you think, right? I'm I'm an open book when it comes to this. Uh my bottom line is I want some stuff fixed. And I don't want air conditioning and heating systems to have to be uh worried about constantly. I mean, last year, y'all, we had to send kids home for two weeks because the the heating work wasn't working. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_06 14:15

But we had spent $800,000 on a system.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

So it wasn't we didn't try to fix it, it just didn't.

SPEAKER_06 14:22

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_05 14:22

But isn't that that go back to the fact that that Cooper Hall is this historical thing and they can't gun it? Yeah. That's a bunch of garbage. Maybe so. That you could push that thing over and build something brand new.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

We had a similar situation in Starville with a with a hospital that I focus around at. Um and and as whatever's gonna happen to that. Well, one of these days it maybe it'll fall down. I don't know. I'm I'm I'm I'm very uh encouraged that maybe at some point we may get.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

We're talking about Felix Long for uh anybody that's confused.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

And and so to I was confused. Go ahead. To your point, there there are some I I live in a house that's over a hundred years old. I love these places, but the reality is to be good stewards of the money that we're supposed to be spending, and what you know, you have to ask start with the position of what is in the children's best interest. Whatever the Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

What is in the children's best interest? Where should MSMS be? And should there be two uh specialty schools within 30 miles of each other doing essentially the same thing?

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Trevor Burrus Well, how do you know they're gonna be doing the same thing? I mean you're you're taking the position that that Columbus only has the right for this. No. That is the position you take. You know where I live. I'm taking it. Yeah, I'm clicking. But that is I'm taking it. That is the position.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

But but here's I'm pushing back on it as as somebody who lives where you live.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Well, here's the other side of the coin, though.

SPEAKER_03 15:51

And somebody whose wife works in this district. Uh works in Starville. It's a CSD. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

The flip side of that is if if it had been in Starville and the better location was in Columbus, would you have that same position? You wouldn't. The bottom line here is when you have these conversations, it needs to be had in in the big picture. I'm not suggesting to you that MSMS needs to go anywhere. What I am suggesting to you.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

But you were a proponent of MSMS being relocated.

SPEAKER_06 16:19

Where where is the other option? But maybe some of us should have stood up over the last 30 or 40 years, and it's not happened. And I and I feel like I've been that mouthpiece for a year or two, but I'll tell you this. This is on me.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

So I just I disagree. You have come in and been a very strong advocate for for to try to place this and give perspective to this. So I'm not gonna let you say that. Well, you're you you have been very strong advocates.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

You you said something a while ago, Rob, and I wanna and I want to cut uh back over

MUW Future And Specialty School Overlap

SPEAKER_03 16:51

to it. Um y'all start talking about historical buildings, but the um it sounds like, and we're gonna switch over to how these two committees are gonna interact here. Um it sounds like the future of the W is where we're really at here.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

There there's a lot of conversations being had. Um I wouldn't I wouldn't say that that there's decisions made. So let's be very clear, there's no decisions that have been made. But when you're looking at these issues, and here's the truth, the MSMS may outlast us all, right where it's sitting. Um and there may be other opportunities that we're able to plug in for that. Keep in mind the Bridge Act that we passed last year is having discussions about how do we take and doing these the the hub idea of where you bring in kids from other places. Lowndes County could easily be that hub for a part of the area. There can be overlap, where Starwell has a a place to place uh play in that as well. Um but we're looking at Delta State, we're looking at uh other places around our our state that can have that that mechanism that works. I want us to be in a position that where we support. And for that matter, MSMS could go one direction with with the the math and science side of it, but you may have the utility of a university in the back door that does uh cybersecurity, um larger ideas when it comes to computer type.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Right. And I and I understand that those are different things, but uh they're so similar in fields of study that you might be competing for the same kids 30 miles apart, but that's not my question. Okay. My question is uh consolidation on the select committee, and I read through it's K-12 and IHL. Okay, so are you crazy? I am crazy. I want to deal with the K-12 later, but let's talk about the IHL part right now. Um uh last legislative session there uh not this past one, but the one before, so 25. Um, it was pretty common knowledge that you guys were trying to close three universities.

University Consolidation In A Shrinking State

SPEAKER_03 19:07

And the W was one of them, Delta State was one of them, and Valley was one of them, and uh there was a concern that there was going to be unholy hell raised if y'all closed an HBCU before you close something else, and the W seemed to be the something else.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

When you discuss these, those are the low-hanging fruit. Okay. It's it it would you say that they're not?

SPEAKER_03 19:30

I I mean they are the smallest.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

They are the smallest. So you concede that we are grabbing for fruit here. I concede that any time that you look at a state that has less than three million people and you have as many universities and K through twelve, so let's be very clear that we're looking at this, that you're gonna have to do something.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

And whenever your your population is shrinking, and that's for a lot of reasons. Sometimes it's because we're we're having fewer children. Uh sometimes that's because people are moving. Uh but we do at least have uh part of our Golden Triangle has been growing. We do have growth in our area. Uh that's for a big reason. Uh the we've got a lot of development that's going out on our supersite. So, in my opinion, we are in a positive position from a growth standpoint point uh for the state. But whenever you still look at that, the question you have to ask is can we keep open the IHL system as it sits today? My honest answer is probably not. And not because I don't want to, not because my heart is is is poised at trying to co chop these things down, but you've got to look at this from the standpoint of what can you do best and where is the money better spent?

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Okay, so let's talk about this low-hanging fruit then. Is the W by itself Can I lose problematic to you, or is it necessary to um close a non-HBCU in order to close an HBCU?

SPEAKER_02 21:01

All right. For those of who don't know, uh HBCU is historically black university. Um I think first few times I ever heard that I was scratching my head and wondering what that meant. Um the the short answer is it shouldn't. We should be looking at this in the terms of what is in the best uh best scope for the state moving forward. And if you want to look at who's graduating more kids, especially in the the HBCU arena, with uh I'll tell you right now, Mississippi State University, Ole Miss, and Southern and Jackson State are are by far putting more children uh uh in those communities um with college degrees. I mean, it just they just are.

SPEAKER_05 21:46

I'm I'm genuinely curious, does it save the state a whole lot of money to close smaller schools and let vines grow up over the buildings? I'm thinking about Mary Holmes College over there. We're talking about unintended consequences.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Well, you've got to ask yourself if if moving forward over the next ten and keep in mind this is not something that's going to happen next year. These are going to be conversations that need to be had over the next five, ten. What I would love to have seen, and I've said this before, I would have loved to have seen uh the two universities that are closest together here find some collaboration on some things. I will tell you right now, I would love to see uh Mississippi State University get in the dental business. I'm just telling you, there are opportunities out there for us to rethink how we're uh doing this and how we are moving forward. When when and I and when I say the dental business, and I'm talking about teaching dentists.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Um I I would love for us to, instead of us having to beg for our children to be able to get into a uh uh a medical practice or medical uh dental practice, and they have to go to four states just to figure out how to get in. We have a huge amount of of, in my opinion, uh gap in services for our state, and that's going to get bigger over the next few years. Um I would love for us to look at some other opportunities. Now keep in mind the MSU may have and or the W or whomever may not have any interest in this whatsoever. But this is a it's for us to have these conversations, we've got to start spitballing how this looks, what we are doing, and if we've been doing what we've been doing is not working. And if the W needs to grow in a different direction, look, goodness knows, three years ago we talked about a different name uh for the W. Those of you who were not involved in that, um that was one of the more interesting, and it was not talking about closing, it was talking about changing the name. And so And then it devolved into talking about closing.

unknown 23:59

It evolved.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

So it it's one of those things. You're on the hot seat, Rob. Well, listen, this this is this is good. This is what we should be doing. This is if I genuinely care about Columbus, Starbucks, West Point, these communities, then not talking about this stuff is the worst possible.

SPEAKER_06 24:19

Absolutely agree with that. I want to go back to my numbers, though. In a $7.3 billion budget, half of that, I think I'm right, Rob, is in uh K through 12 education. And there's another what You're there, you're there, you're gonna per people. It is a lot of money, but but on the other side, instead of fussing and fighting, to me, why we can't come up with another million dollars if we're talking about MSMS for their just their operating budget, and then have a that's plan one, that's year one, that's tomorrow, and then have a three to five year outlook, whatever that is, from them, with education involved, money involved, business people involved, the legislature involved, actually get around the table and have a have a talk instead of just you know us talking about it. Right. And then say ten years down the road, we want $200 million in new buildings and we want to be we want our building to be on the middle of uh an island somewhere. I mean, that ought to be what we're talking about. And so I I I want to say a million dollars, million and a half dollars in an operating budget should be doable. At the W, probably Rob had a child at the School of Arts. I bet you I'm gonna get the same response down there when we go visit and the deaf and blind. I bet you a a little low-hanging fruit thrown there away would make their day-to-day lives better. I bet you the W, I mean, MSMS could write a check for uh maintenance out of an extra million dollars. And I bet we could find some shared services, either via the W, Mississippi State, whoever. Preach brother. And that's what we need to be talking about. And we need to be grown-ups around the table and and figure that out. And uh whatever that may, you know, I I I do think we need to take care of what we got, and I don't think big brother ought to be after little brother.

SPEAKER_05 26:18

Do you suppose, Andy, that that we can gain a lot of funds to be redistributed by these consolidations of the K-12 and elimination of a lot of those administrative positions?

SPEAKER_03 26:31

Because did you just say something about redistribution of money, David? The chairman of the Lowns County Republican Party just said something about redistributing wealth from government to other parts of the government, not the other direction, just so we're clear. It's a slippery slip.

SPEAKER_06 26:52

The answer to that, if I'm being truthful, it's probably yes. And uh, but I don't know how to go about it. I I've not studied it. I I've looked at MSMS quite a bit over the last several months, and uh but we have smart people in our legislature, believe it or not. And and and I but I do think grown-ups around the table, and maybe without cameras and and mics in a, you know, that they can come. I mean, have have all the parties I think you could figure things out. And and uh reality is we probably do waste some money. And uh we need to find that money and spread it out.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Let me be the agitator again.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

Well, let me ask you

Leadership After The MUW Name Fight

SPEAKER_03 27:30

something. Uh uh one more thing about the W and then I want to switch over. How much of the W's the viability for you, for you, Rob. How much of the future of the W's viability rests on this president hire that they're about to make?

SPEAKER_02 27:50

I think leadership is vitally important. I think that that having someone that's tough enough to tell their people that they need to cool it, let's come up with some solutions instead of of of a constant complaint. Because when we went through the name change, y'all, I've I've never received so many emails from angry people in my life. You heard it on between the headlines. Yes. I mean, it it was it was it was and and it honestly it was ridiculous because it really didn't mean it didn't really mean much for the the future except for possibly not identifying yourself specifically with a gender. That's was the basis for for swapping that name. Now, I'll be the first to tell you, I in my head and heart, it'll probably always be the W. That being said, we've got to redirect and ri fix what it is that we think the goals should be. And I would love for that, and and there's got to be conversations uh from the neighbors, whether it be MSU and the W getting together and having these conversations. And for argument's sake, some of those were had a few years ago, and at least from my standpoint, uh they they devolved and and didn't go anywhere because of uh of a lot of political angst that were going on. And it had that process that thought process of Big Brother eating a smaller area. I almost said something I didn't want to say. But um I but I do think leadership is hugely important, not only in that arena, I think across the board through K-12 as well. We have a huge vacant spot for real leaders in this in that arena.

SPEAKER_06 29:41

Well, I want to make another point before I get out of here. You know, I ran the hardest thing I ever did, and the best thing I ever did by far, I ran the YMCA. I was lucky enough to be able to run the YMCA for 11 years. And uh, you know, an old building downtown had some new buildings in and around, old building downtown. We'd have some meetings, we'd go into a room with all the directors and all, and uh, you know, how are we gonna fix this old building? And we'd come up with numbers, you know, millions of dollars, and man, it made me sick. And uh, you know, knowing if we don't change, we're gonna die. And uh, you know, one day the youngest guy on my board, Rob Graham, came into my office and said, for I believe the number was $350,000, we can do this, this, and this, and this. And I'm gonna tell you, that change made a huge difference in the downtown Miami City in my attitude, and I think the community's attitude. And and so sometimes having real conversations about not just everything new, finding best ways to spend our money uh make a big difference. And uh so I hope we can go about it. I I don't like to see smaller, less affluent communities, and that Columbus is not that one. Uh, you know, just be stepped on and uh because their needs there, and you know, we've got some places in our state that are struggling, and and and I hope we find ways, K through 12, IHL, MD, all these acronyms that we can get together in a room and figure out a a good way forward. And uh it's gonna make somebody upset a little bit, but maybe not a lot. And uh so I hope we come up with that rock.

K-12 Consolidation And Community Identity

SPEAKER_02 31:32

I think that that part of what you're running into especially in the K th K through 12, well, not really. I mean IHL too. Um because we've done it, the way we've done it is the way we're gonna do it. Which makes no sense. Which makes no sense whatsoever. And anytime you have something somebody like me come out there and start talking about, oh, maybe we should look at at uh school choice, maybe we should look at some other things. Quite a bit, apparently. Um but but when you have these when you have these things that come up, there are emotional responses. And then there are real responses. I I don't mind dealing with the real responses. I don't mind having conversations about what that looks like. Uh the emotional responses, on the other hand, um there is in 2026 that there is not a bone in my body that genuinely does not want to hurt first of all, I would never hurt a child, but we're trying to help children. And it honestly feels like from my perspective, because I I know everybody has theirs, but from my perspective, I'm trying to treat each child as an individual, and it honestly sounds like from the people, especially from the emotional side of it, they want to treat children like herds.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

Well, I think that there's a lot of I think I mean a school is a and and I say this as somebody who I obviously knows the value of of consolidation when it needs to happen. Right. But uh a school is a huge part, a huge center of a community. So when you're talking about consolidating schools, the unspoken part of that is somebody's community is going to lose their school. Right. And I think that a lot of the emotional part of that comes with what happens what happens to our community identity when our kids are going to another community to lose schools.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

And we saw that very clearly when we were consolidating in Octoball County.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Right.

SPEAKER_06 33:37

Schools may be one thing in buildings, but maybe sometime there there are other things to consolidate. Administratively.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

Other than the school itself. Trevor Burrus, Jr. I don't think that we need to go out here just as the school choice argument each kid needs to be. No, I think we did. I think we did. Just with the school choice argument. You're you're I we're we are identifying children and what their need is. Maybe we need to re in terms of of of policy, think in terms of what communities need and how we need to plug those types of situations in.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

I understand and appreciate what you just said, but I want to I want to cross-examine that a little bit. Um purely Robbs, Mississippi. There are eight IHL universities. How many should there be?

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Well, this is one of them.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

Eight.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

I don't think eight. I mean, I and I appreciate where he's coming from. I I don't think eight is the number.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Do you think five is a number? Six?

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Well, I don't know that that that I'm ready to say a number. What I'm ready to What I'm ready to do is look at these things and see what works. And from that standpoint, if if I told you to keep all eight open, we're going to have to raise taxes, I'm pretty sure that there are a vast majority of the population would say uh we're paying enough.

SPEAKER_05 35:09

Do you think that online school and uh just technology in general has kind of led to some of this thought?

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Yeah, I mean, yeah, a little bit. I I I don't think you can take the place of a real teacher in a real room. You cannot. I just don't I've I've heard all of the the conversation. Well, I mean we may eventually get to where you're you know what you're saying. I don't believe that's where we need to head. I think that it's it it harms Listen, I think. It's so detached. Oh gosh. It's so you're there. You're there.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

And I mean I have four children and they grew up in a in a time frame where they don't remember a time when they didn't have a cell phone. They don't remember a time that they weren't attached to something. And somewhere along the way, I think we're losing part of our humanity by that connection to these. I I agree with that. Go to some grass. It's okay. Go do anything other than be on the silly phone and be disconnected. So to your point, I think that that is a terrible idea to go to that. Now, are we headed that way?

SPEAKER_05 36:20

Well, we're going to to cybersecurity, which is quite ironic because on the same page of the newspaper, MSMS or somebody in Startville was going to do cybersecurity according to maybe one of your plans, but they also got hacked the same day. Like it was literally. Well, it was a nationwide hacking. It was OCH and Campus P.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

OCH was involved before that, though. Right. But cybersecurity is a niche little thing. Like I mean, well, I mean, you the I I would tell you that that 35 years ago the internet was a niche little thing that was was a that I didn't understand so before I go too far down this road. Um so the reality is that a lot of these things, and I'm not suggesting to you that it'll be focused primarily on that or not. It's these are things that need to be discussed and flushed out further. Um and listen, I get the distinct impression that we still are in our heads with Columbus and Starville are at odds with each other. And I will tell you this.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

You're saying that that's not true.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

No, I don't think that it's it's it's it's true at all. I think that that that there may be some things that happen in Starval that I don't want to happen. There may be some things that happen over here that I don't necessarily want to happen. But it's not because we are at odds with each other. We're just trying to figure out what the best possible outcomes should be.

SPEAKER_05 37:39

And we we don't really want to build your school over there, just being real.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

And that's the You don't want to build the shining beacon on a hill?

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Uh at the frog pond. Well, I'll tell you this: if you're not willing to do that, then you shouldn't be willing to do it here.

SPEAKER_05 37:54

Well, but we'll do our own bonds here. If the legislature does it, you've got the other 81 counties helping pay for it. We have done our own bonds. We have bonded.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

But it was $4 million in state uh assets, so four or four million dollars in state money that's gone to it so far. Yeah. But plus the state assets of the land that diversity of the buttons money that any other community goes after.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

I just chose to put it toward my school.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

Well, I I I want to go back to and and I want to I do want to visit the uh startwell high, but I want to uh a second part of my question from a while ago. And I don't know the answer to this. How many public school districts are there in the state right now?

SPEAKER_02 38:31

There are under 144. This has been a moving target for a while. I've been saying 144. It's probably 143 when you start including depending on how you install.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

So are there 140 some odd? Right. How many should there be?

SPEAKER_02 38:45

At least half of that. Or at least 82. I mean, th this I had a bill dropped a few years ago saying that every county should have their uh it should be uh their district, and whether that be consolidate from a administrative side or whether that be consolidate from just a building and those types of things. What I would love to see, and and and you can look this up. Texas has fewer school districts than we do. And and it's just to me ridiculous that we're dumping all of this money into an administrative nightmare, and it's gotten bigger and bigger and bigger. And and listen, we have some fantastic leaders out there. I I will tell you right now, Dr. McGee uh over in Starble is one of my favorite people. He he's innovative, he thinks outside the box, he's trying to figure out ways to make things work. So leadership is so important in that arena.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

Well, you were nodding, Andy. You seem to agree with where he's coming from here.

SPEAKER_06 39:42

I can't speak to it like Rob can, but I, you know, just sitting back here looking big picture. I mean, 140 school districts, I mean, and and all the administration. I I just I don't know whether it should be per county or numbers of kids or or you know how how to break it up, but I'm telling you, he we would all have our hands full.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Would you cast a vote on a bill that would consolidate Lowndes County and Columbus? Probably not.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Probably not.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

Why not?

SPEAKER_02 40:10

We didn't have enough information today. I mean, in fairness. Right.

SPEAKER_06 40:15

I'd have to look at the numbers. Uh I I'd have to look at that. I I just I don't think so. Let me ask you. And so that's part of the problem. Here we are getting into our our neighborhoods and our and our It's tough, but should it be somebody else? I'm good with it.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

Should there be I understand? Well, I think that's what we all are.

SPEAKER_05 40:35

A voluntary option for this, like incentives, or does it need to be compulsory?

SPEAKER_02 40:40

I would I would like to throw some carrots out there to lead us into this because I think if you get buy-in from your community, like we listen, it took us a long time for for Octavol to do what we did. So I'm not suggesting to you that it's that it's easy. I'm just suggesting to you that we we're gonna have to do something. And whenever you have kids that that and we're graduating uh the graduating class is 50 kids, and we're putting all of this time, energy, and money into to an administration, uh, an administration that half a million dollars a year for for such a small group of of children, and those are valuable kids. Those kids are worthy of us fighting for them uh in the best possible way we can. But but what should not happen is because the grown-ups can't get in a room as Andy said a few minutes ago and and bang this stuff out. And sometimes you have to have the misinformation gets in the way too.

SPEAKER_06 41:45

People start saying this and this and what's the reality? And so I th I do think get getting around the table, uh, maybe with these mics turned off and people can maybe say a few things and uh and mics on, it can be either way. But I think getting adults in a room where there's not he said, she said, you could hear it. Right. We could come up with some of the things. Nobody trusts the legislature. Right, which uh, you know, it's funny. Uh good people down there. And I and I laugh about that. You know, I've only been in there a few years, but I I've met some really good people, and uh, I think most people have the right heart but sometimes getting there, you know. But we to back to Rob and and 455,000, I think, public school kids, half our discretionary budget goes to K through twelve education. That's something to be talking about. It should be always. But you bring a bill up, I mean, and it affects your district. It's tough. Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

And and that's what we were getting at community identity and different things like that. You could have a school that is very obviously struggling in the middle of uh, you know, a soybean field, right, and everybody around it knows that it's struggling, but it's theirs. It's kind of like that old saying that I won't say on here. Yeah, well, if it's he may be one, but he's ours.

unknown 43:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Well, well, and and and trust me, I've heard that quite a bit lately. But the the the the bottom line is that if we're not willing to change, then those that are willing to that that are supporting that need to go and support it 100% and not ask the rest of us to to have to go in and keep it up if you're not willing to change.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Okay, so that brings me to my final question for you.

Starkville’s Big Build And Career Tech

SPEAKER_03 43:31

And and it I'm not gonna come at you like David would come at you for it. I'm gonna be a little more surgical here. Why is Startville an example of how to do this? And why is a hundred and twenty-seven million dollar school uh that you want to be uh that you've told me before that you want to be a school that draws kids in from wherever they'll come from. Why is that the example?

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Why not? Okay, well, I mean, we've got to have some examples. Okay. And we've got to have the ability to mean that.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

What makes Startville an example and what makes that investment the culmination of that example?

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Trevor Burrus We stepped up.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

I mean, sometimes listen, no, whenever I got in politics years ago, I had a I won't I won't use names, but I had someone I was 27 years, 28 years old, uh full of spit and vinegar, thought I knew it all. And I went to a still there. It's still there. Still pretty much full of both. It meant something. But I went in and talked to him and I said, You look, I'm looking at running for state representative. I'd really appreciate your your um your support. And this gentleman looked at me and said, Well, I I'm still in the process of we're trying to look at you know leaders out there and we're trying to get somebody uh to to run as well. And I looked at him and said, We'll go find them and I'm gonna beat him. And as it turned out, I did. But I remember thinking, as I've gotten older, especially, looking back at that, maybe I could have handled that differently. Maybe I could have been a little bit better. But you know the difference is volunteering, being the one that jumps out there to do it first, you may not be the best, but by God you did it. And you're the one that stood in there. And and so from a leadership standpoint, what we're what I'm trying to propose and promote, and I would encourage uh Lyons County to do this as well. And you've got some great leaders with the gentleman here with me today. We have to find those opportunities. What is it that we could be the best at? What is it that we could do? Y'all we've got a uh we've got so many opportunities between here and Starwell, whenever I'm heading back home. Instead of us getting into the argument of uh who's gonna be the best place, uh best space for MSMS, why don't we be the best we can be at whatever it is that we're doing? And instead of us having conversations about why you shouldn't do something, I want to know what we should be doing. If if vocational education is something we used to call it vocational, God help me, we're calling it so many different things now. But career tech, career career tech, whatever the whatever the new buzzword is, we need to be preparing these kids to to get jobs in our community. And there are so many different opportunities that are whether it be the steel, uh the helicopter, the whatever. And there are jobs out there that pay I mean, if you told me that I could make $60,000, $70,000 a year when I got out of high school, I would have I would have been. I wouldn't have gone to law school at this point. But but the bottom line is we should be supporting each other in terms of what we can be the best at. And I I I I dislike this attitude that if 50 miles up the road they're doing X, we should uh well we should do this too, or we shouldn't do this because they're doing it. We should be connecting ourselves and having conversations about what it is and what it means to be the best.

SPEAKER_06 47:10

And I think about I'm I'm 60, almost 69. And uh but I think it's imperative, and that and that's why we're a little bit on different odds with the school choice thing. But I I I consider myself a neighborhood guy. I've had actually two jobs and this this part-time job, and and you know, I've lived in two homes, I've had one church. Does it feel like part-time job? Yeah, but I I think sometime we have grown and gotten so big, and maybe that's administratively, I getting back to some neighborhood type schools, um thought processes, you know, uh where mom and dad are paying more attention, and uh if if something needs to be done at the school or the church, mom and dad figure out a way to get it done. And we're not asking the state to do everything. And I I don't mean it quite like that, but I think sometimes smaller Any of those days gone?

SPEAKER_02 48:05

I know. I mean, it I I I've scratched my head wondering sometimes. I mean, I I don't disagree with I mean, getting parents involved, getting man, I can remember uh my mother, I think she would almost choke me every time I brought of uh something else home that she had to drive me around to to get people to donate money to X, whatever X was. But they did it. But they did it. But they did it. Or we would have a cleanup day uh there where we went and picked up trash and I'm I don't know how great of a job the kids did, but but but you had those days. I don't know that have we moved past those times?

SPEAKER_03 48:40

Look, man, I agree with everything that you're saying, and I had a very similar raising. Um whose parents' responsibility is it to go fix the uh go fix the buildings at MSI?

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Right, right. I would tell you the people that are sending their kids there probably should have a little more interest in it. Uh first of all, I'd start there. But I will say this those buildings didn't just magically implode. This has been a Right.

SPEAKER_06 49:10

I I have 1994, $7.9 million.

SPEAKER_02 49:14

That's not a lot. No, it's not. And and to well, I I think one of the young ladies I I went up and spoke to some of the kids of I think it was last year, and one of her reasoning behind keeping MSMS at the W was because the Board of Supervisors gave $100,000 in 1980 something. Um and I I said, well, I think it was a hundred acres. She said, I'm a big thing. She said money. Uh and I said, Well, what have they done for you lately?

SPEAKER_04 49:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

And I've discussed that actually. You and I are in a complete agreement on some of this. I I just think that it's interesting that the the Board of Supervisors spent, was it, $50,000 on a a a advertising conglomerate to come in and lobby for them. I would have much rather them give the money to MSMS, because I don't I don't remember. I mean, we were already having discussions. Andy was up there working night and day to give have conversations about what this looked like. Um I I would say the money would have been better spent giving it to those people.

SPEAKER_06 50:22

Well, I just think it needs to be and I think you said this somewhat, uh it doesn't need to be a political ping-pong

Depoliticizing MSMS And Next Steps

SPEAKER_06 50:28

call. And we probably shouldn't be having this conversation. And I and I think maybe the conversation, but I just think we're talking about things that could be 90 percent handled by a little money for day-to-day operations, and then and then again and again and again, sit down in a room and figure out a way forward, a better way forward. And I would tell you, I've talked to a couple of people in their foundation in the last couple of weeks, and uh, you know, just having some positive energy from the state and us and whoever else, I think that would uh encourage them to go about their business a little bit differently and maybe more enthusiastically. However, I think they've given a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. So I mean, we're talking about some pretty smart people that probably in pretty smart places that have the ability to maybe help. And so uh I appreciate this conversation and I appreciate Rob. We we we we chit-chat uh quite a bit about MSMS and and schools and kids and and uh the whole gamut. And you know, I joke him about, I mean, he gets pretty stressed out, and and um you know, I want to go back, you know, chair of the education of the state state of Mississippi uh in in in in the house, half a million kids or so. That's a lot of responsibility. And you know, so uh and now on consolidation. I mean, I I we do need to have these conversations, but I I think they need to be in in a temperate environment again, and and uh if you know if you don't change a little bit, you're gonna die. I think that's in the business world or whatever we do. And uh but I I like the way he said about the emotional responses. Everybody's got a you know tablet and their phone, and but I think sometimes before they uh say something, they need to think about his part-time job or my part-time job or y'all's job. I think there's ways to go about things. And of course, y'all y'all have a y'all y'all in the business of of news and and uh but I I think we're gonna go about this in the right way. And uh I'm confident and and I appreciate more than the leadership of my house knows the support they've given us in the last year or two. And uh so I I hope we can move forward and and uh keep it in Columbus. And uh and uh but but I mean that maintaining. That would be my point. And you know, and so and I I I I I intend to uh continue along this path.

SPEAKER_03 52:47

Well well, I don't want to say to both of you guys, I know that we've asked a lot of you know a lot of questions today. We've I appreciate y'all's candor. I appreciate y'all's willingness to come in here and sit behind these microphones and have this discussion because I I agree with both both of you that it's incredibly important to get these things out here and exchange these ideas and and give context to them. And and y'all done a great job with that. And I I you know I I know that in some ways y'all are working together, in some ways y'all are at cross purposes here, and and but I really appreciate the conversation that we've had today.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

Thank you for having me. And and I I listen, anytime Andy calls me, I'm gonna be there. So we we're we we're always uh gonna try to to help each other where we can.

SPEAKER_05 53:29

Iron sharpening iron here in Catfish Alley Studio in historic downtown Columbus. Our special guest today have been Mr. Andy Boyd, who bears in his hand a scalpel and a surgical knife, and Mr. Rob Robertson, who bears muriatic acid and some perhaps a sledgehammer, who knows? But we thank both of you.

SPEAKER_03 53:54

He said that I didn't, Rob.

SPEAKER_02 53:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:56

It's been good.

SPEAKER_02 53:56

I've been I've been called far worse and told I was doing far worse.

SPEAKER_05 54:00

So thanks, fellas.

How To Reach Us And Wrap

SPEAKER_05 54:04

Reach out to us, tips at cdispatch.com. You can also follow me on Facebook or X at Dchishishm 00 and leave a public comment. Keeping it real here in Catfish Alley Studio and Historic Downtown Columbus, your host has been Zach Player, and I am David Chisholm. Y'all stay friendly out there.

SPEAKER_02 54:23

I'm just a simple old country boy, but um, I think that makes sense. I've stepped out and I've said what I had to say.

SPEAKER_05 54:31

You've been listening to Between the Headlines with Zach and David. That's what old people do.

SPEAKER_04 54:38

That is.