A Mall in Limbo and an Owl on the Rise

A redeveloped mall can look like progress and still leave everyone asking the same blunt question: where are the tenants? We dig into the latest around Columbus Place, formerly Leigh Mall, including the incentive agreement that went sideways.

Next, we head to the Woody's on the Water building where a planned restaurant is dead in the water. The headline is simple, but the structure is not: the Army Corps of Engineers, the port lease, and a city-owned building create a maze that scares off would-be restaurant developers who want a longer runway to justify big upgrades like docks and site improvements. We kick around what it would take to fix the lease terms and what risks the community faces if the property just keeps drifting year after year. 

Dean Burrows Jr. from MUW Athletics joins us to explain how Division III sports, free admission, sponsorships, and community service hours can build a real fan culture in Columbus. 

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Transcript

Cold Open And Sponsor Reads

SPEAKER_00 0:01

I don't know what he has come up with today to talk about. I'm not asking you to hide anything. You know, no, put it out there. Let the people see it.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

I've never not worked in a hospital working department.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

You can't argue with anybody when they're putting facts in your face. Zach, that's a hard question. I have no answer for it. From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch. This is Between the Headlines.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

This week on Between the Headlines, we have a full episode. We have new information about the mall, about the property out there near the marina. If you were hoping to have a high-end stake, there are updates. Also, things happening to the dial a bus building in East Columbus and things happening with a link. All kinds of stuff. But first, retirement looks different for everyone, so your plan should be built around you. For over 40 years, Financial Concepts has helped people create retirement strategies that fit their lives. Our team in Columbus takes the time to understand your goals and build a plan that works for you. Wherever you are in your journey, we're ready to help. We plan retirement. Financial Concepts is a registered investment advisor. This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, a bank headquartered right here in Columbus, Mississippi. That means your banking decisions aren't made hundreds of miles away by someone who doesn't know you. They're made here locally by bankers who know your name and care about the community. At Bank First, we're more than bankers. We're your neighbors. Whether we're cheering in the stands, catching up at a local pancake breakfast, or celebrating milestones across our community, we're part of the moments that matter most. Stop by your local Bank First branch or visit BankFirstFS.com to learn more. Bank First is a member FDIC and Equal Housing Lender, Bank NMLS 454063. In the heart of the friendly city here in Catfish Alley Studio, historic downtown Columbus, hello to you. My name is Dave Chisholm. Your host across the table here is Mr. Zach Player. Zach, before we begin today, I want to thank those who wished me a happy birthday on Facebook. It was wild, dude. There's a lot of people that I didn't know, and normally I respond individually, but it was so many folks. I just I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

So you're now older than me.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Uh yeah, young and okay. Yeah. So uh anyway, thanks for listening, y'all, and thanks for being a part of the conversation that we're having

Columbus Place Incentive Deal Breakdown

SPEAKER_02 2:34

here. And that conversation begins today uh as it relates to Columbus Place, formerly Lee Mall. There are some updates there, and a lot of it is financial. Zach in a mustard seed nutshell. Can you tell me what the agreement is?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

I'm gonna try. Basically, there's there's the incentive was based on two things. It was based on increased sales tax and increased property value that hull's development would bring. And the deal kind of went uh astray because Hull never could provide the baseline for the uh sales tax, so they couldn't define what growth was because they didn't know what was already happening. And that's their incentive agreement. So you would think that they would want to get that thing fixed and get that thing redrafted in a way that w that they could get that money. It doesn't make any sense that they wouldn't be uh getting off their duff and making sure this new rebate agreement was inked and signed unless somebody's playing games or somebody's wanting to sell something. Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Yeah. Um as I listen to this, a couple things come to mind. One is this agreement is in paper, and both parties need to be in agreement because if they are not, that means the lawyers are gonna end up getting the money sooner or later if they're not careful, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Um that part's interesting, but um Well, I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think that the city or county, either one, have any obligation to pay on that rebate deal because the the the there there isn't one. The the information that Hull was supposed to provide on their end of the bargain they never did. So whatever.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

And and whatever. But there's some confusion on the county side right now. It's like why would they want their valuation to be lower instead of higher? And there seems to be a belief that maybe uh uh your boy, Mr. Hall, and uh his uh Grand Papa. Yeah, so you're gonna say that I'm not. Um and and his uh senior VP of government relations, John Moharen, they might be at cross purposes because Mulheran is pumping the we've we've built it, it's gonna be great, we're trying to get the right tenants, they're gonna be high value tenants, and y'all are gonna love this place when we get it finished. And we're yes, we're having trouble getting tenants, but it's a long process, and we're committed to that process. That's what he's saying. On the other hand, he's saying, I didn't realize we were appealing the value of our property there. I didn't realize that we had appealed to the tax assessor's office. That was Mr. Hull, who seems to think, well, we've put $24 million into this, but uh, we don't think it's worth eight.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

That's wild, dude.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

You've got conflicting reports from within the same outfit.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Well, and and one of two things is true, in in in my opinion. Either they are operating at cross purposes, those two, and pulling against each other. Or Mulheran is the front man for the sleight of hand on flipping this mall and getting it to be somebody else's problem.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

So, yeah, I think I think therein lies the rub of what people are really wondering about. All this stuff with the agreements and the the the figures, uh it it it makes people's heads spin, but what they want to know, are we gonna get tenants or are these people playing games with us? Well, and part of it is e economical, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Right. The line from the whole group through Mulheron up until this point has been we could fill this mall with uh low value tenants tomorrow. Um that we're turning away people who, you know, want to sell broken Rolex watches in the concourse, you know, that that kind of thing. That is not an actual example that he has given. That's me being semi-hyperbolic. But you know, you know what I'm talking about. That they could fill this thing up with people who they would have a revolving door of low-value tenants all of the time. Um and I believe that that's probably true. But so they've set the bar higher to where they can get better higher value tenants, they know that process is gonna work slower. Okay. It's working awfully slow, and they're having a lot of problems. And so the question now is I know you don't want knockoff cell phone salesmen filling up all your build buildings or filling up all your space. But is there a space between where they've set the bar and where they and what they don't actually want? Is there a space between right there where they could start getting some wins in that mall?

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Like some medium value tenants for for lack of a better way.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

I g I guess. I mean, I'm not and and I'm not a I'm not an expert in this space. I'm not even a I'm not even a proper layman in this space, but it seems to me common sense says if you've set a bar at a certain spot and you're not getting anybody that you don't necessarily want to lower the bar to where you don't want to be, but if there's a space between, do you try that first before you uh hold the line and double down or just give up on the place?

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Well, I mean it's quite simple to me that a vacant building brings no revenue and no value. Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

So I mean But but I mean, okay, so they they remodeled the back of the they're remodeling the back of the mall, they remodeled the back of the mall, and they pivoted from trying to get commercial tenants in that spot, and it's like, well, we're we're gonna rent it to offices and and and medical and and different things of that nature. You'd think you'd get some bites on that, but I don't guess they have.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Well, it probably price. I'm a businessman. I mean, how much is it gonna cost for me to put my business in?

SPEAKER_01 9:30

And if you're and and and if you're uh if your rent is pricing people out of the market and you're not getting tenants that can pay that kind of rent, eventually you've got to face the reality of we need to do something else. So is that something else, like I said, adjusting and trying to get wins, or is that something else offloading that property to an uncertain future uh with a with a uh an unknown owner?

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Which would drag it on for more years. Uh-huh. Certainly it would. Yeah, he needs to put something back there. It doesn't have to be a bomb shop, but he needs to put something back there.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Well um and and just full disclosure for our listeners, um I've spoken with uh Mr. Mo Mr. Moharen before about getting him and Mr. Hull on the show. Mr. Mulheran says we listen to the show, we like the show. One of these days when the time is right, we'll come on there.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Come on, we'll be nice to you. I promise we'll look at it. Open invitation. We're begging you. We're just we're bored here. We're good stuff to do.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

And a good faith conversation because again, it's it's like I said, I'm not an expert in this field, not even a proper layman. So let's get the people who do this for let's let's get the people who do this for a living to come in here and explain to us and explain to our listeners uh what exactly is going on and how come a middle ground uh won't work for the old Lee Mall, now Columbus Place. Come soothe. So open invitation, Mr. Moharin, Mr. Hall.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

Yeah, come on in, come soothe our spirits as we await the long-expected advent of um whatever's gonna be out there. And

Woody’s On The Water Lease Roadblocks

SPEAKER_02 11:19

speaking of what's gonna be out there, what's gonna be out at the Columbus Marina area? That's our next topic for today. And and by the way, as I I read the um the article regarding the old Woodies on the water, it refers to it as the marina. Just for point of clarification, the Columbus Marina is a separate business. When we talk about this, we're talking about the old Woodies on the Water, yes. That big restaurant up on Stilts that used to be there, and many of us want it back, but it may not be there for quite some time. What's the latest?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Well, um uh Mr. Mantooth backed out of the deal, and uh it was on the basis of the uh length of the lease. The way that that is structured, from what I understand, is you have um uh the Corps of Engineers owns the land, owns the the the ground. Which means you and me own that in a roundabout way. In a roundabout way. Um so the Corps of Engineers owns the ground, uh leases it to the port. Now that building is a city-owned building that they are trying to sell. So it's all very convoluted in that way, and the last two deals have uh gone sour because of uh the the obstacle that is created by uh uh the Corps of Engineers and their lease to the port. Uh according to uh city attorney Jeff Turnage, uh the the primary obstacle was the length of that lease uh for for Mr. Mantooth. Uh he wanted a guarantee that after that 14 years expired, that he wanted a guarantee that it would renew for 25 Corps of Engineers wouldn't play ball with him, so he he backed out of the deal. Now, in reality, um, and this, you know, I was it was it one of those situations where you know he came in here and wanted to come uh to make that into the optimus prime of of of steakhouses, a little something for everybody. But uh I don't know if in Mr. Mantus's case this might not have been a um a case of uh what my what my dad, what my father usually says of me, where his um alligator mouth overloaded his humming bird ass. But um such is life. The um thing that the city is trying to do now, though, because this Corps of Engineers lease and the Corps of Engineers problem or complication has uh cost them now two uh potential suitors for that Woody's on the water building. There there is an effort to redraw that lease or at least propose a new lease uh that the Corps would go along with that would be a lengthened term, maybe change some other things. I understand that's a laborious process. I don't know much about it at this point, but I do know that that is what's in the work, what is in the works right now. That's not going to get Mantooth back to the table. However, uh the goal is if that lease is redrawn and the terms are different, maybe the length of time is different, longer, then um they may not have a they may not have as much of a problem with the next suitor for the Woodies on the Water.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

We'll see if that happens. I tell you though, 14 years is to me for a restaurant is not a short lease because fourteen years is longer than most restaurants.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Well, you gotta think about I mean it's not just the restaurant. If you if you look at what these uh last two folks are wanting to do, you know, they're wanting to put docks out, they're wanting to develop that land a little bit and and and use the land around them to to support and uh uh enhance.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

And doc positions have to be approved. Yeah, that's correct.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Anything they do that land has to be approved. And uh I can imagine that if you're gonna put that type of investment out there that you would want as long a term guarantee as you could get.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Well, the the land is protected for a reason. You know, I've said this before. Conservationist David Chisel. Well, I mean, I mean it it's true. I mean, that is a national park level place out there. You've got so many native birds and I mean the fishes and the ducks and the turtles and the snakes and the alligators, they are there, trust me on that. Um the Army Corps of Engineers has a duty to keep riffraff out of there. Now, DJ's not riffraff. I didn't say that. Don't don't act like I was trying to say, but the more people you have out there, the more trash, the more noise, the more traffic, uh, the more things that you have to patrol and work around to make sure that people don't destroy things as happens. Right. And so they gotta look out for it. And and second to that, uh on the city side, you're gonna have to be friendly to business.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Um I am told how much friendlier can you be to business to sell something for a hundred thousand dollars and only require a thousand dollars of earnest money? Okay come on.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

All right, look.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

They've been very friendly to suitors of that building.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Gee, a hundred thousand dollars is a steal, no question about it. It's halfway between zero and two hundred thousand, one of those arbitrary numbers. Great, I'm happy about that. That's a bargain. But what's not a bargain is when roadblocks are set up on Wilkins Wise Road and half the folks going home don't make it home. You you see what I'm saying? I'm not saying it's okay to drink and drive, but is that kind of thing fair to a business? Because I am told that's why Woody's on the waters no longer. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Well, don't drink and drive, I think, is is the way to go there. But I mean, the the city is not the reason, the port is not the reason that these deals have have gone uh gone south. Um the unique circumstances of DJ Mantu's plan notwithstanding, the cited reason is the Army Corps of Engineers. And maybe that's valid, maybe that's not, but if something ever is going to go out there, it sounds like taking the step to try to get that those lease terms different is probably the way to go. So maybe that works out, maybe the next suitor comes in with a good plan and the you know the wherewithal to back it up and we move on and we have something out there at Woody's on the water.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Well, the old office bar and grill has Marty's steakhouse now. Did you know that? Okay. They uh that's actually uh Marty used to work at uh old Hickory now. She's going out on her own. So that vi that building is no longer vacant. So if you're wanting a good steak, not endorsing it, but just saying if it's the steak you're looking, we've got steak places, but it's the steak over the water, I think, that that most of our people miss. Just that whole ambiance. Maybe something will become of it.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Well, speaking of DJ Mantooth, he's still in business with the city in another way.

Dial A Bus Building Commissary Plan

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Yeah, I I drove past that this morning. Uh as the story goes, he has won the contract to re-roof and to remodel the old dial a bus building.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Or at least the part that's gonna still be standing.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Yeah, yeah. Uh half of it uh needs to be pushed over, although part of it's already on the ground, as I saw. Um it's it's not a pretty building. And uh congratulations on winning that contract, but what what are we doing with this structure, Zach?

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Well, uh, you know, I don't hate this idea. They're they're gonna remodel it, um, re-roof it, and uh the c the plan as it stands right now, of course, hasn't been approved. They haven't gotten uh they haven't gotten this in the budget yet, but this is something that's gonna be part of the budget discussions for this next fiscal year. Um they want to make it into a a commissary of of sorts. So, you know, where your toilet paper is gonna be, where your paper, where your uh office supplies and and those types of things, your uh that that type of thing is gonna be there, and then they'll have a purchase clerk that you know looks at the budget, buys it all, keeps the thing stocked, and then when department heads need certain things, they'll go to that purchase clerk and say, I need this, it's in their budget, it's already there, and um much more easily tracked, should save the city money, and it beats the system that they have right now, where all of the department heads are making separate purchase orders to Jim, who is then having to Jim Brigham, the CFO, who is then having to make sure that all of it is still in the budget, and then let's order it from Amazon and let's get it here and let's do this. It's just a it's just a nightmare to track in that situation, whereas this stuff's already gonna be there, and when it runs out, it runs out.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Boy, where to start with this. Okay. First off, Zach, this building is 3.5 miles from City Hall. Okay, you're telling me when that copier runs out of paper, they're gonna go all the way down there, burn seven miles worth of gas, and then come back after lunch. I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Um I think every time they need a ream of paper, they're gonna go out there. I think it's gonna be larger quantities than that.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

So it if if I'm reading this right, the major complaint is we're just having trouble keeping up with the receipts and keeping the books clean and making sure we have a good tabulation on our inventory. Ergo, it needs to be put in a central location and it needs to have a bureaucrat overseeing it so that when people need stuff, here they come, they get it, they sign the papers, and it's clean.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

The operation and trying to make sure that uh the city isn't overbuying the suc these goods. And and now there is a valid argument that can be made here that you know, in their audit every year for six, seven, eight years, maybe longer, the city's been cited for not being able to keep up with their trucks and their land. And they still don't have a system for that. Every year their audit, you go ask Jim Brigham right now, he's gonna say, We don't have a system for that yet. We're working on it. And he's been saying that since he got here. And those are that that's their trucks and their land. And they're, you know, so I mean, they can't keep up with that. How in the hell are they gonna keep up with their toilet paper? Is a valid question. However, this isn't an effort, at least where these types of goods are concerned, to consolidate it, to be able to quantify it, to be able to have one person who is tasked with the job of go put your hand on X or tell me where it went, and that's your job to know. And right now that's the CFO and the department head, and I obviously anything that any time that you add bureaucracy, um, it has the chance of getting less efficient. But this at least is being done in good faith, I think, as a means to being more efficient in this regard. And and I I hope it works out. I like the idea in principle.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Okay. Dave Chisholm here thinks it should be a house. It would make a great house to be on the tax rolls right there instead of um building it into a dirt cheap as it will be. What else on the agenda today? All

The Link Expansion And Regional Tension

SPEAKER_02 23:59

right. That said, lots of things happening at the link. Um I hear there is an announcement forthcoming, and that announcement will be something to do with the site in Starkville. It will be the expansion of one of the existing industries. We don't know as of right now what it will be. We've got ideas. What say you, Zach?

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Well, uh I've I've got several things on this, but first, let's and I and I don't know. I didn't sign an NDA on this, so uh I I I suppose I can speculate, but that's all we do on the show anyway. There's there's there's there's two major things out there at the North Star Industrial Park. One of them is an Amazon last mile facility. The other one is uh Garen Manufacturing, who that which makes clothes. Or this project is called Project Jacket. It's a $200 million expansion of an existing business.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

So you're 50% likely to be correct regardless of your guess.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

So I've I've I've I've given you all the facts as I know them, and that is all that I will say. I don't know anything, nobody's told me anything off the record. I know what's been in the paper, but I also have common sense and and can use context closely.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Well, unless they're saying project jacket to cover up, then it's that other place, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Well, I don't know. But uh $200 million expansion is a big deal.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

All right.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Um it's they asked for fee and lieu for it. Uh fee and lieu starts at sixty million statutorily. Uh you can't do a fee and lie for anything under sixty million, and that's the So we know it's in excess of sixty million. Yeah, we know it's gonna be in the two hundred million dollar range, so that's three and a half times the minimum what you need for fee and lieu. And what that does is it lets the business uh pay a third of the taxes that they would normally pay for ten years in lieu of paying full taxes.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Congratulations to Starkville and Octiviaw. Zach, is it legally okay to talk about a fee and lieu agreement in a an executive session?

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Okay. I was unaware of that. That's interesting to me. So what else about that?

SPEAKER_01 26:12

I mean, other than So this is obviously we know that Octavol County and Startville and OCEDA have all given their notice to the link, two-year notice that we want to reconsider your contract. And we're doing it because there've been a lot of turnover at the top. We, you know in in Lynn's words, she likes Joe Max. Don't think they should have got rid of the Rainmaker, should have given Ian Vasey a uh a better hearing than four months and then a mutual parting of ways, um, shrouded in some mystery. And now you've got Merrill um Fisakerly as the CEO over there. And that hire for some reason and everything that happened before it, you know, really chapped Lynn Sproul. And we know this, she said it. Um well this was Merrill's first opportunity to go over there and say, here's your Phi and Lou project, which doesn't happen over in Octoballcan. That kind of investment industrially doesn't happen over there very often. So this is a big deal. Um Lynn's response to that was interesting. Um where she says, We're very I mean, tickled to death to have this. We're very excited to have this kind of investment, very excited to see a company that's already here, who's wanting to be here, and not only wanting to be here, wanting to expand, it's a hell of an endorsement for our community, etc. etc. etc. She's right about all of that. But then she adds Um, you know, where the county is like this is a real good real good show of proof uh for us from the link that they're paying attention to us. Lynn says, you know, yeah, it's a big win, but it ain't an ADI. And it ain't an SDI. Oh so is jealous much? Well, I mean, I'm not gonna say that, but I mean it sounds like she's setting up the you know, give me an SDI or give me death kind of uh uh uh dichotomy here, where $200 million investment in an industrial expansion is a big dead gum deal over in October County. It's a big deal here. Hell, we had in Lowndes County same week there was a uh a $4 million. This this $200 million expansion is going to give them a hundred extra a hundred new jobs, etc., in Octoball County. Well, uh DRC Industries is wanting to make a four million dollar investment in property that they're leasing from Apex Ammunition over at the old uh coroner's office in uh on Yorkville Road.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Um and this is right there outside of New Hope. Yeah, this is an industrial um uh Kentucky-based custom industrial packing manufacturer gonna bring 50 jobs, $4 million investment. I do not see Trip Harston or Stephen Jones or or or any of the Lowndes County residents or leadership with uh rending their clothes, covering themselves with sackcloth and ashes, and saying, well, if it's not an ADI or an SDI, then we don't want it. Then that doesn't show the link isn't showing us what they need to show us.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

And I feel like I I I feel like that this is I feel I I feel like Zach.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Just say it. I have great respect for Lynn Sproul. We both do, but so um and and and that doesn't change based on what I say here. And we've we've agreed and we've disagreed, and I I believe we share mutual respect, and I hope that doesn't change. But come on, man. Like I understand giving the notice and I understand wanting to see what the well what the link accomplishes in the next two years before you um sign on with them again. I get that. I I get the setting up a probationary period where you want to see can Merrill lead this thing.

unknown 30:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

You can where you can see whether without the personality of Joe Max Higgins, can the link proceed as it has. I understand completely why the county and the city want to give themselves an exit if that turns out to be not true. But can we call a win a win and can we and and and and and can we at least give Merrill a fair hearing? Because I think that we're with a quote like that, it sounds like to me that Lynn Spruell, who is an intelligent and fair and reasonable person in my experience, is not willing, potentially, to give Merrill Fisakerly a fair hearing, and I think that that would be a mistake on her part.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

She is certainly a brilliant woman. And they've got smart. I think both of them are.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

I think Merrill and Lynn are.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Well, uh that yes, but but but for Lynn specifically, and for all of the leadership in Octivihaug County, they're super smart and they're playing us. Okay, I've said this before. No, no. I'm I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna say it today. Listen, a lot of people who are paying attention to these things and listening to between the headlines, reading the papers, they're saying, you know what? The people of Starkville are starting to get a little big for their britches. There's a little bit of a Napoleon complex happening over there. And either they're going to just bust wide open, get a car factory, and it's gonna be holy smokes, they are the absolute king of central Mississippi. Or maybe, just maybe, they realize, you know, we kind of need more train tracks, and we kind of need a river, and we kind of need some of that stuff that they have over there in the friendly city. I'm just saying the regional approach is what's going to win us those big deals, and I think it's a mistake that they're making.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

I I mean I agree with the last thing you said that yeah, the regional approach is the best way, and I think it's a mistake for them to decide now. That and that that's my point. Um uh Lynn deciding now how the next two years are gonna go and setting up unreasonable expectations for this is what a win is or it isn't good enough. Because they I d I do believe that Arctaball County putting themselves in a and start well putting themselves in a position to where if the link falls on its face or they start or they start producing diminishing returns or they don't uh execute the way that they used to, and it's a problem. Having having an exit door, having the uh the the power to renegotiate that contract or look for others, I think that's smart. I've thought that was smart all along. But a quote like $200 million is uh great, but it's not an SDI, it sounds to me like she's already made up her mind, and I um I think that's a mistake, and and that's all I'm gonna say about it. As far as start will being too big for its bridges and all that, and all that stuff. That's those are the uh opinions of David Chisholm. But uh don't decide now what the next two years are gonna look like and be open-minded about what can happen, and understand that a $200 million win is not a little win anywhere. It's certainly not a little win in Octabah County, given its industrial development history. So this is something that should be comprehensively celebrated, and there shouldn't be a backhand at the link offered at the same in the same breath.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

We'll leave it at that. I mean, my my only thought of the matter is if I'm over there in Starkville, I would be probably renegotiating that as well just because you know, if something does get built out there on Cinco, they might just move over here and live anyway. So it's it's win-win for them either way, but we've got to have smart leadership. And hey, if you're listening, I know y'all have got opinions out there. Hit us up, tips at cdispatch.com. I'd like to keep this conversation

W Athletics Strategy For Community Buy In

SPEAKER_02 35:09

going. At this time, we are pleased to welcome into the studio the assistant athletic director. Uh, he's in charge of athletic engagement and and public engagement, if I recall. And his name is Mr. Dean Burrows Jr. Sir, thanks for coming on today.

SPEAKER_04 35:24

Thank you for having me. Appreciate it and looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Well, uh now you're uh now you had another job last year, didn't you?

SPEAKER_04 35:32

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Okay, like uh talk talk to us a little bit about uh your success as uh the men's basketball coach at the W before you took on this new role.

SPEAKER_04 35:40

So last year actually I was doing both. I was interim assistant AD and the head men's basketball coach. Okay. So um the years prior to that, I was just just, I say in quotes, uh, just the men's basketball coach. But no, we we moved down here in September of 21. I got the job two weeks before the season started and uh had 22 guys I did not recruit. Makes life very interesting. It leads to a lot of it leads to a lot of nights questioning yourself. Uh my wife and our four kids were back up north in Delaware at the time. So we uh we got through that year. It gave me a lot of perspective and it taught me a lot that I did not know about myself. And then I was able to start bringing in guys that I knew that played for me at other places that I was recruiting. That first year we went to the USCA national tournament up in Richmond, best year in program history at that point. The following year was our first as a NCAA Division III, right? Took a step back, not gonna lie. Then in 24-25, we took another step forward, made the postseason in the conference, and then this past year, the kind of the perfect storm, if you will. We made the dance, uh, beat Webster not once but twice. They were undefeated going into that last regular season conference game at our place, really put one on them at the at our place, and then took at the line in the semifinals, and then uh was able to win by one against Webster on their home floor to go to Atlanta and play Emory in the NCAA tournament.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

So Well, I guess how uh I know you're not uh specifically on the basketball side anymore, but but uh how much of a draw is it when the new basketball coach is talking to kids, when you guys are talking to athletes that we're making NCAA tournaments uh in basketball and in in other sports, we're competitive and we're competitive right away pretty well because Division III is fairly new uh here. So I mean I guess how uh how has that worked out in getting athletes on campus?

SPEAKER_04 37:35

So uh men's golf went back to back with conference championships a few years ago, and then with our team this past year, that's three conference championships in three years as an NCAA Division III member. So internally, you're you're very excited for your colleagues as coaches, you're excited for your student athletes, but then internally, if you're a competitor, which most coaches are, you're like, all right, my turn. You know, we have to do our part to get to that point. But now in this role, we can we we have a history at the Division III level across many programs. Right. Um baseball's had success, golf has had success, um, you know, other sports have had success as well. So it does help for sure to show that things can be done here.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Okay, well, but uh going now to the side that the the side of the street that you're working right now, when you look out into the bleachers, you've got a successful basketball team that uh goes to the dance. How many people are out in those bleachers with those free tickets watching?

SPEAKER_04 38:34

Well there's a good amount, but we can always have more. We would always like to have more. And you're right, with our all of our home events being free to the public. Um, you know, I talked to Renee Sanders at United Way a few weeks ago, and that's one thing she always hears is there's nothing to do. Well, there's a lot to do, yes, but our events are free. So um we really did have a really good uh support from the home crowd. It made our court a home of court advantage, if you will, as well. If you look at our record since our we've gotten here, it's really been you know night and day between home and away. So Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Well, I mean, I guess uh what kinds of things are you doing to to build up that engagement, build up that excitement, to get people to come and watch the sports? And not only that, but to get the community more involved in identifying with the WW athletics.

SPEAKER_04 39:26

Okay, so really for me, it started when I first moved down here and trying to understand I was the outsider, you know, coming from the north, moving down here, trying to figure out and learn about the area, about the town that our university's in. So talking to people, and they had made mention how other college athletic teams in the area had done a lot of community service. So for us, that struck a chord. That's something I did at my old school with my team, but I really took it to another level personally here. Um, this past year, our team, men's basketball, did 600 hours community service. The year before, almost 500, you know, not just in this community, but throughout the core of the state. And really we wanted to do is do that first, serve, get to know people, connect. And then what we've seen in turn is people coming to games, like the kids that we go and meet at the schools on Fridays in the morning when our guys don't have class, we're getting them up at 6:30, getting over to these schools, Annunciation, West Lownds Elementary, Cook, Stokes Beard, and they're getting the kids off the bus and spending some time in the classroom with them, uh, eating breakfast with them. So, you know, that's something that we will continue to do, not just basketball, but our department last year served the community 4,000 hours as a department. And we won our conference student advisory athletic council uh um community service award. So that's something I challenged our department yesterday at our retreat. You know, RAD said 4,500 is the goal this year, and I was like, let's take it up to 5,000. So, you know, but I think that was the first seed, if you will, to plant that to try and get folks to come to the games. And then again, we are Division III. The experience that you're gonna have at our place isn't what you're gonna see if you go west on 82 or east on 82. It just comes down to resources, it comes down to manpower, but you're gonna have a good time, you're gonna see a product that people don't realize that how good our level is at the Division III level.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Trevor Burrus, I agree. I don't think they realize at all. I went to the W. I've lived here most of my life, and to be frank, I did not know you had a golf team, uh, for instance. And so I mean, what all just in a nutshell do you have going on that's available to the public?

SPEAKER_04 41:39

Aaron Powell Yeah, we have 17 intercollegiate athletic sports. So, I mean. Yes, sir. Men's and women's soccer, um, they play right over here at the Roger Short Complex, those are free. You know, men's and women's basketball in pool gym, they're free. Now we don't have an on-campus track for for track team or for uh a stadium for baseball. That's something that that's a priority for our athletic director and for our department. You know, we have softball field, we have a beautiful softball field. It's it's on campus, but it's across the railroad tracks. If you're familiar with our campus, um, you know, our tennis team, they did really well this past year. Hayden's done a great job of building that up in just one year. So we're looking forward to seeing what that looks like, you know, moving forward this year. You know, um, so no, we we we we have a lot of good going on over there, but I mean this past year we had four. We have 17 sports, like I just said, excuse me, but we had four conference players of the year. So almost a quarter of the conference players of the year came from the W.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

There's a a school, I think it's in Clarksville, Tennessee. They had these banners out showing their mascot, and it's the governors. Are you familiar with that? Austin P.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

uh. university.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Austin. And and I was driving through there and I was thinking, you know, why doesn't Columbus in the W do more of that? Are we in Owltown? Because I just don't see a lot of gear out there. I don't see a lot of fanfare. We just don't know because it hasn't been promoted by our city.

SPEAKER_04 43:07

No, and so you might have done some research, but that's something, you know, our town is kind of what it was a plate off of when it came to my mind. Like when I first came down here, I I really did fall in love with this town. Um, just how friendly, like I coming from the north, I thought, oh, this is just some gimmick, you know, the friendly city. But no, like the people were very, very friendly and welcoming and and bringing me in. But like, I'm like, why can't this be a smaller version, if you will, of maybe Stockville, Tuscaloosa? And and and you're right, like that's something I have a marketing mind. I don't not a marketing major, excuse me, but I have a marketing mind, and I get excited about that. And and that's something that I'm really focused on is you know, if people aren't coming to campus, how do we bring it out to the community, whether it's pop-up shops or or different things like that? We do have a bookstore on campus, but maybe not everybody can get to that bookstore. So there's some other legalities that you have to go through for merchandise. And licensing and things like that, but that's something I'm really trying to focus on and do a dive on.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Well, we had a a a conversation not too long ago, and you uh mentioned something. I don't want to say this wrong, but you mentioned something about some sort of owl iconography, maybe at Maine and Fifth.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

Well, that that's a goal, but we we've had we have talked to the people that we needed to talk to, and that goes to the Department of Transportation, the city, and things like that. So I don't know if that's gonna happen, but maybe something closer to the campus we might be able to do. But yeah, I mean that that that intersection would be perfect for a big old owl head. And if you go back and listen, I have it saved on my phone to talk to sponsors about and people around town. D3 Datacast does um men's women's college basketball for um for division three level. And let me pause there. The division three level of NCAA Athletics is the biggest in terms of member institutions out of Division I, Division II, and Division III.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

They have the most quantity of schools.

SPEAKER_04 44:57

Yes, sir. We have over 400. Wow. Yes. Uh men's basketball had 405 programs this past year.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

And so the outfit you mentioned, they do like apps and broadcasting and things like that.

SPEAKER_04 45:07

Yeah, they do podcasts like the one that you gentlemen have. Um, they do selection shows, if you will, for the NCA tournament. But I say all this because they gave us a 0% chance of winning the conference tournament when it started. So I I dial into that. I'm not a big believer in motivation. I think that's a myth. I'm more into your daily habits, but that's the coach speaker.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

You can still do bulletin board material.

SPEAKER_04 45:27

It's well, we have conversations about, and of course, our guys found out about it, not through me, but they follow that stuff. But anyway, those two gentlemen who had that podcast when they did the NCAA selection show, the bracket reveal, they said basically, quote, the W has the best logo in Division III. And we really do have a cool logo.

SPEAKER_03 45:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:46

Um, you know, so like that's that's out there for the nation. So for me, I'm like, ah, we can play off of that. Um, if you go back to 2025 on um, I don't know if I can mention this or not, Barstall Sports, they had their NCA college football reveal for the game when they brought it back by EA Sports. If you go on there, one of the gentlemen, I don't know who it is, but it wasn't Big Cap, but it was the other guy, another guy in the back, he had Al's Athletics shirt on because I had sent them some gear because when we played McNeese State, we played McNeese State. They made the NCA tournament that year in almost beat, Kansas. Well, they were given, you know, McNeese the go-around on on social media, everybody was nationwide. So we got some good marketing out of that. So I'm like, you know what? Barstow mentioned us, that's a pretty big deal. Yeah. So we sent them a box of gear, I did, and they had it on for the college football uh when they were playing it on the live stream. So like just little things like that.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Well, I mean, how are you I guess how is the message resonating? How often are you in front of potential community partners, whether they be sponsors or other organizations? Um how often are you doing that and and how's that message resonating? How are they responding to that?

SPEAKER_04 46:52

So we started our sponsorship campaign, if you will, for this uh for this 26-27 year. We started that July 1. It runs the fiscal year. And as of two days ago, my boss had given me a goal that he wants, and we're at 90% of that goal already in terms of sponsorships. Okay. Now, for me, again, how I'm wired, that I'm I'm I'm stoked about that. I'm excited. We're more than appreciative. We have some great partners, and and and again, it's not just going out and asking for money. Like we really want that to be a partnership, and there's got to be alignment, you know, in terms of what they want and what we want out of that partnership. And our goal is always to keep the student athlete experience at the forefront of everything we do. So pouring into that, and that's what this is for is you know, the sponsorship levels. But to answer your question, Zach, um, to to kind of land the plane with that, it's it's almost daily, to be honest with you, getting in front of people and and and having those conversations and and and really showing them what we have to offer. Again, we can't offer what they're offering over on 82, and that's fine. We don't we're not trying to be them, but we we bring value to the table.

SPEAKER_02 47:55

We're still at the price point can't be beat.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

No, no, and we're still a startup. Let's be honest. Like this is the 10th year of athletics returning since they started back up. We're still in our infancy and we're accomplishing what we are.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Well, talking about the the the the value of the product, uh why free? Are y'all are are y'all leaving revenue on the table?

SPEAKER_04 48:20

I think we are free. I I think we are, to be uh to be honest with you. If you're looking at as far as a business decision goes, we are leaving revenue on the table. Does that change in the future? That's a conversation to be had about. Well, we do have we do have concessions. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

We do have concessions, so it's not just come there and concessions at basketball or you have concessions at all of the spoken.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

In in the indoor venue at Pool Gym on campus, we do that. We have concessions there. At softball, we have concessions as well. So kind of the the the brain child that I'm trying to work through right now, maybe I'm letting the cat out of the bag. It's not official, but I really out at baseball, we draw really good with baseball. We play our home games right now at Columbus Christian Academy at their field. So it's a little bit distance from from our campus. Not bad, but it's still um a little bit of ways away. And what we're gonna try to do this year is have I'm gonna reach out to some local food trucks and have them see if they want to come out, you know, and highlight them basically on that food truck Friday, if you will, and let them get the business and help promote them, you know. And it's I feel that's a win-win. You know, it's it's us promoting them and them serving a need for you know the fans at the game.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

So yeah, hands down. People will come just for the tacos, if nothing else. Exactly. And probably see some good hits while they're at it.

SPEAKER_04 49:34

Yeah, I mean, our baseball team's really done a good job. Like, and that's that's something we talked about yesterday is you know, there's obstacles everywhere. Every business, every institution, every athletic department has obstacles, but we can't let that be a mindset. We got to figure out how to overcome. And our baseball team's really done a good job of, you know, they don't have a home field, but they have darn near 40 kids on their roster every year, and they, you know, they're competing for conference championships. They're right there neck and neck. You know, they had the conference player of the year last year in Zach Johnson, like the kid was a player. So like, you know, we're we're not making excuses. We are who we are, we're not shying away from that, but as you are who you are, you always want to try to improve and get better as well.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

Well, how how close is the W from having the and this may be a a more of a question for your boss, but uh how close is the W for having uh uh the resources they need for a home baseball field?

SPEAKER_04 50:25

There's some work going on. I can say that between him and some folks locally. Um, you know, uh it it'll benefit a lot of people, not just the W, not just baseball, but it would it would benefit the community. So that's a work in progress. That's kind of where I can leave that at right now. Okay. I know the folks who we're looking to partner with, they're eager from what I've been told. I'm not directly involved in that. Sure. My boss is our baseball coaches, but I know the folks that we're working with are eager to bring that out, um, if you will. But yeah, I I just know that it's moving forward. Let's just go put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

Pitch a little idea to you. Many years ago at Mississippi State, you could just drive a trailer out in left field and barbecue. Yes, and do whatever you want to. It was so much fun. They still do it, but it's commercialized and it's very expensive. There may be a market there for something just like that, telling you.

SPEAKER_04 51:20

You're 100% right. So out at our ballpark, well, Columbus Christians ball field, um, in right field, there's kind of a grass area behind the fence. The only problem is when it rains, it's it gets pretty bad out there. So, but during the conference tournament when our guys hosted this past year, it was mostly my players, our basketball players, they had their trucks out there, and it was really cool. So, like, you're right. Like the the the idea is there, and hey, if it's not broke, don't you don't think that's a good idea?

SPEAKER_02 51:45

There's not gonna be any beer out there at Columbus Christian, though. No. No.

SPEAKER_04 51:50

No, there won't.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

So you say. Just play. So uh well that that gets me to think of another question. How much of a um how much of a push is it for the sports, the athletes from each sport to support each other? Like y'all are going to baseball games, baseball's coming to basketball, you know, y'all are going out and watching the golf tournaments and that you can and things like that. So how much of that is is um happening, how much of that is encouraged and pushed?

SPEAKER_04 52:25

Our student athletes do an incredible job. Like, and I'm not just saying that because I'm here, like we talk about that a lot as a as a department and with our student athletes. Like they do a really good job of supporting, and honestly, they probably support athletics more so than any other organization, which is kind of understandable, let's be honest. My goal this year is to get and figure out how do we draw in just the traditional student who's not a student athlete? You know, how do we draw them and where are we missing the boat there? When you're coaching, you kind of, you know, you can't do everything. So, but now that I'm not coaching, that's a that's a draw. How can we partner with student orgs on campus and not just get them the games, but what can we do to help them and benefit them as well with their orgs? Is that our student athletes becoming members of those orgs, which we want? That's the beauty of the division three model. It's not just a business, it's not just your sport. You get to be a student, a true student. You know, some of our student athletes work like real jobs on top of practice, travel, games, things like that. Some are SGA presidents, some are, you know, a part of these student orgs, some are in you know, fraternities, sororities, and different organizations on campus. So that's the beauty of who we are. But that's an obstacle I really want to overcome is how do we get those kids there? Where are we missing? Having those conversations. And I'll be honest with you, how do we get alumni back? Like, and I'll be honest, like I've had alum come in, they want to see something or whatnot, and we're doing a walkthrough on a game day. And I was like, give me a few minutes, and you know, we'll go, and then we go talk. Hey, you sticking around for the game today? No, we have season tickets over at the other place. Oh, okay. Like, you know, you know, so again, I get it. I'm never gonna tell someone how to spend their money or what to do. Like, that's not my job. I don't think that's any of our jobs, obviously. But you know, it's just like interesting. So what we are focusing on, and our alum are important. Let's not let's not, you know, they're important, but how do we focus on younger families, families with kids, because it's free. How do we get them? How do we get them out? Not only out once, but how do we keep them coming back? How do you develop diehards who grow up maybe wanting to go and play a sport at our place? So that's something that I'm excited about. Like my wife this summer, because usually as a college basketball coach, you're on the road all summer recruiting and doing things, and and I and I love what I'm doing right now, I really do. But this was that first year of not being out there and and recruiting. So I come home one day and I just sit down, I'm tired, and she goes, You're bored. And I'm like, not really, because work and and there's always something to be doing, that's just who I am. But in terms of like understanding my schedule, because you're just so used to just going, going, going. So in that regard, I'm like, eh, kinda, but no, like that's why I've thrown myself into everything. Like rev generating at all levels is uh is a real thing in 2026. So our plan this year was to roll out the sponsorships, let's get that going. And then next year there's other ideas that I have and my boss has that we've talked about to roll out in terms of doing some more things as well.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

So maybe festive halftime activities, well, baby races, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 55:35

No, no, no, and you're 100% right, and you're hitting on the point right now. So, like, you know, we're open to that. We've had uh, I think it's called TOTS, and I've never seen it because it's always halftime of one of our games. The little kids coming out there and dancing and dribbling to some synchronized music and things like I've seen it on video, never been there for it. So we have that. One of the things I'd like to do for men's and women's basketball games this year is, you know, I want to start on campus with maybe someone in the music department singing a national anthem. Maybe that opens up to a children's choir, someone in the community to sing the national anthem before every home game. We're trying to work with uh the soccer clubs here for the youth and their directors of you know, ball shaggers during the game or mascots that walk onto the pitch with the uh the athletes prior to the game like they do at the World Cup and the Premier League. So little things like that, but no, you're 100% right. Stuff like that. You know, we do have some contests. Again, I was coaching, so I don't I don't know what's going on with with all that. But now in this role with game day and stuff, like that's what we want. And you know, I'm gonna be going around asking businesses for um some gift cards as well. If they can't sponsor us just this year because, you know, maybe the price is too high, maybe things are not ideal for them yet, which I respect. Maybe there's a way they can benefit and help us with gift cards and we can promote that, you know. So, but no, you're right. You're on to something.

SPEAKER_01 56:52

All right.

SPEAKER_04 56:53

Is anything you want to add? No, um, I appreciate this opportunity first and foremost. Um, like to add that we've hit it on already. Our events are all completely free to the public.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

Now, if I've never been to one of these, what is my entry level like? What is the first game I need to go to?

SPEAKER_04 57:10

Hmm. I would say men's or women's soccer. We have two new coaches, um, and they've done a really good job of already in the offseason of building their rosters and what they're going to put out there on the field. So, you know, coming over to the to the um the soccer complex, excuse me, seeing them up close. December 5th, it's a Saturday. It's a conference game, men's and women's basketball doubleheader. It's the men's basketball ring ceremony. We have that scheduled um for prior to the game, kind of like what they do in the NBA. And then also we're partnering in that day, it's the 10th year of athletics coming back to the W. So we're gonna be celebrating that uh milestone, if you will. And then later on in the year, we have an Easter egg hunt that's free to the community over on the softball field. But a big one that we started, this is gonna be our fourth year, Thursday, October 29th, in our gym. It's uh fourth annual hoot and hoops. And what that is, it started out as basically an introduction to the men's and women's basketball teams. Then with that, competitions, things like that. After the first year, I was like, no, we got to do something with the community. So we little kids come into the gym, we have stations set up, teams, student orgs, organizations throughout the community come in. Little kids can come in and trick or treat. They have their costumes on, they go trick-or-treating, there's coloring sheets for them that leads into them going on to the court with the men's and women's team shooting and playing some games and things like that. So it's really cool. And then we do contests um for the little ones, for the students. Um, the the players have contests, and then we do a local VIP celebrity game. We've had the mayor out there.

SPEAKER_02 58:48

Um this is getting so much plan. I don't think I can handle it.

SPEAKER_04 58:53

It's really a good time. Um, and I'm looking to take it up. Last year, Doug had the coffee truck out there uh as well. So, you know, shout out to those guys. They're they're great partners, um, Doug and Dow, great friends as well. But, you know, that's a big event. And and again, it's free. And um, you know, everything we do is basically free. At some point, could we potentially capitalize on some revenue? Yeah. But right now, you know, that's always gonna be an event that's free because it's it's fun. We're gonna be doing some free camps in the spring when the kids are on after spring break. We get back from spring break and I think it's intercession or intermission, whatever that extra week's called. We're gonna do, you know, nine to twelve, you know, free camps on campus for the kids. Because again, we we want to we want to develop that base.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

So David, do you think that you can guard Stephen Jones one-on-one?

SPEAKER_02 59:44

Uh upon advice of counsel.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

He'd blow right by you. He'd blow right by you.

SPEAKER_02 59:51

That is uh most certainly true. I do know my limitations. But hey, if you're listening today and you say there's nothing to do here in the friendly city, this segment has proven you wrong. Our special guest today has been Mr. Dean Burrows Jr., Assistant Athletic Director for W Athletics.

Three Things To Know And Closing

SPEAKER_02 1:00:09

That said, Zach, three things need to know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

All right, the Columbus Lounds Convention and Visitors Bureau has revamped and expanded the African American Cultural Trail, which now includes 24 current projected historic sites like the R. E. Hunt Museum and Cultural Center, historic markers, and buildings across the city and county. Uh, if you're interested in going through that trail and knowing about those sites, pamphlets outlining it are available at the CVB office. Number two, the Hitchin Light Farmers Market will celebrate its 50th anniversary from 7 to 10 a.m. Saturday, in addition to the Market Standard Fair. The celebration will include live music, a splash pad, and games like giant checkers.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

What about pin the tail on the dinosaur?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:56

Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:59

I saw that because on the way here I saw the guy putting the uh tail back on the dinosaur pro sport. Y'all take care of our stuff. We need to have nice things. Sorry, Zach. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:09

Well, I agree with that wholeheartedly. Uh number three, uh, this is across the river, but I think regional enough. Hamilton star Leslie Odom Jr. will open the annual Lyceum series at Mississippi State University this year. His performance is set for 7 30 p.m. September 11th in Bettersworth Auditorium with tickets available on the university's website. Hopefully, in this performance, he won't kill the former Secretary of the Treasury in a dull.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:35

Okay. Good stuff. It's been a fun show, Zach. Reach out to us. Tips at cdispatch.com. You can also follow me on Facebook or ex at D Chisholm Double Zero and leave a public comment. Keeping it real here in Catfish Alley Studio and Historic Downtown Columbus, your host has been Zach Player, and I am David Chisholm. Y'all stay friendly out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

I'm just a simple old country boy, but uh I think that makes sense. I've stepped out and I've said what I had to say.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:05

You've been listening to Between the Headlines with Zach and David. That's what old people do.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:12

That it is.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:16

This is Peter Rimes, publisher of The Dispatch. One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom. Typically, we try to keep news and opinions separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government, and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners. The Dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity, and our reporting will always reflect that.