Episode 1 - Potty Talk: "What Kids Wish We Knew About Pelvic Health"

Crystal Aden has been an Occupational Therapist for over ten years. She started her education locally at Victor Valley College (VVC) before then transferring to Loma Linda University where she obtained her Bachelor’s degree and Master of Occupational Therapy. She is a Nationally Board-Certified Occupational Therapist and is licensed to practice in multiple states. As an Occupational Therapist, she has worked for Desert Mountain Special Education Local Plan Area (SELPA) for over ten years serving special needs children in the schools while supporting districts, educators, and parents. 

In this episode of Fostering Futures, host Athena Cordero sits down with Crystal to explore pediatric pelvic health and the gentle, developmentally supportive approach of potty learning.

🔑 Highlights & Takeaways:

• Potty learning vs. potty training: Potty learning embraces the child’s natural development and pace, in contrast to the rigid, goal-oriented nature of traditional training.
• Understanding the pelvic floor: Crystal explains how this often-overlooked set of muscles plays a vital role in bladder, bowel, and reproductive health—and why everyone should understand it.
• Developmental readiness: Children typically aren’t physically or neurologically ready to begin potty learning until around age three.
• Common myths debunked: Early potty success isn’t always beneficial, and poop and pee challenges are deeply interconnected—poop drives the pee.
• Constipation first: Constipation is often at the root of potty issues. Hydration, nutrition, and awareness—not just laxatives—are key.
• Parental mindset shift: Move away from competition and unrealistic expectations; support and patience lead to more positive outcomes.

“Pee and poo don’t have to be taboo!” Crystal encourages families and educators to approach pelvic health with openness and curiosity.

This episode is a must-listen for parents, caregivers, and educators looking to support children with compassion and evidence-based practices.

Transcript

0:01

If she. The relentless pursuit of whatever works in the life of a child. Welcome to Fostering Futures with SEO, a podcast dedicated to our relentless pursuit of whatever works in the life of a child. I'm your host, Athena Cordeiro, inviting you to join me and countless others as we share our unique perspectives and expertise in the world of special education, behavioral health, social, emotional well-being, and community. Follow us on Buzzsprout, Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Welcome to Fostering Futures, everyone. I'm your host, Athina Cordero. And today I'm talking to Crystal Aiden about pediatric pelvic health and potty learning. Um, and so Crystal, just to give the audience idea of who we have with us today. You have a master's degree in occupational therapy. Um, you're nationally board certified, uh, occupational therapist. And you've been here with us, uh, at CAHELP supporting the Desert Mountain SELPA OTP team for over ten years. That's correct. Do you want to give a little shout out to OT/PT? Oh, absolutely. Our department has grown so much. We started out super tiny, and I think we're close to over 60 now. You guys are huge. We are a large department and loving supporting our districts. Awesome. Okay, so why don't you. Let's get into it. Why don't you tell us, why you're so excited to talk about this topic? Sure. So I love pelvic floor therapy and everything that it entails. And the pelvic floor, I kind of stumbled upon it in my own journey. And through that, I was like, why don't people know all of this stuff? Like, this is silly. It seems like some things that we just should naturally know that we don't. And I think you know, this is just a great idea and platform for me to be able to try to share that with parents and educators and, you know, all of us, just anyone who has pelvic floor, which is all of us. Right. And okay, so just even the topic, you know, pediatric pelvic health and potty learning. So potty training, potty learning is this like a tomato tomato thing or are they interchangeable. How do we can you define it for sure. So I, I absolutely say no, they are not interchangeable. And the reason why is, you know, let's really let's break it down. So, um, you know, training training is a very structured, goal oriented process, right? It assumes that there's some type of skills already in place. It's often rigid and formal, right. Whereas learning is much softer. Right. It allows some grace. Right. Um, it's broader. It's more informal. Um, it encourages like a gradual, um, acquisition of skills through experience, repetition, feedback. Right. So it's much softer, right? It is it allows us to approach it differently. It's definitely a more supportive approach and, you know, it allows us to kind of look at timelines as far as natural development. It fosters independence. It just it really is focused on the child and the child's pace to acquire those skills as opposed to, again, just rigidity and. Yeah, kind of it kind of, I mean, it does set a more positive tone. It reminds me of how we've gone from using the term maybe professional development to professional learning. It does have a different ring to the ear. Um, so I agree with you on that. Um, okay. So so let me just put myself into this mix a little bit, okay? I have two kids. I've got a handful of nieces and nephews, who are like my kids, and I've been through the potty training thing, you know, with them, I never used the words pelvic floor. I never used the words potty. Um, learning. I think the most I focus on was like, cereals in the toilet, and a superhero needs to get them, you know, excited about wanting to do it. Can you just kind of walk us through what this is? Sure. Well, so first and foremost, let's take a step back. Okay. So in order for us to even be able to talk about all that, we have to actually understand what our pelvic floor is and what pelvic health is. Okay. Because like you said, it's something that we don't really hear about. Right unless maybe you have something that that you potentially went to a doctor for, right. Right. So, pelvic health, really, it refers to the optimal functioning of the bladder, the bowel and the reproductive organs. And it really plays a crucial role in how those work. So the pelvic floor, actually, it's like a hammock and it has 12 muscles. It's three different layers. Right. And there's sphincters in between. So, it's really important for us to kind of keep in mind that there's so much going on down there. it's located between your two hip bones, your pubic bone and your tailbone. So that's kind of where it lies, and its main job is to support those organs that we talked about. Also, help in elimination. So that's with urination or defecation, so pee or poo. Okay. I'm very comfortable with those terms. I have to be very good. I love it. I always say pee and poo doesn't have to be taboo. Like, let's take it out, right? We don't make it weird about eating right. Sweating like this is just part of natural body function. You're absolutely right. Um, but all that, and then obviously reproduction. So those are the three things, that are pelvic floor and pelvic health kind of represents. It is like a canister system. So our pelvic floor on the bottom is like the bottom of the canister or diaphragms on top. And then all our abdominal muscles around it kind of acts as a canister system, and it really has to all work together. And what happens is a lot of times we have disconnection. And so we're doing damage to our pelvic floor and we don't even realize it. Okay. So it's definitely, you know, we can have things like urinary leakage. So you know where we leak and don't even realize it. Maybe some people, when they cough or they sneeze, or you'll hear women say all the time, oh my gosh, I can't jump on the trampoline, right? Or oh my gosh, quit making me laugh so much. I'm going to pee my pants like we don't. That doesn't have to be our norm, right? That doesn't have to, um, urinary frequency. So going very often, um, and then also urgency. So like you have to go right the second. So your kiddos, like, I have to go. They didn't tell you they had to go beforehand, but like they have to get to the bathroom, right? Oh right. They waited until it's an emergency literally. Or maybe they have urgency where their brain actually is sending them the wrong signal that they don't really have to go that urgent, but they feel it is. Wow. Okay. So, um, you know, some normal bladder habits. I think that that's kind of a, a good, a good little starting point for us is, um, we should, as adults, be peeing 6 to 8 times a day, roughly. Okay. Um, what she does anywhere from, like, every 2 to 4 hours. Okay. Um, we should be able to sleep through the night without having to get up to use the bathroom. Unless we're pregnant or over 65 years old. And we should be paying for a minimum of eight seconds. And that really? Probably closer more to that. 1520 I know it sounds crazy. I will sit sometimes inside our bathroom stalls where there's other people and like, I hear someone who's like peeing, like for you. And I'm like, oh man, they need some education, you know? Because that's going to tell us whether or not our bladder was really full right now. And just like everything in our body when it comes to muscles and everything else, um, you know, we want the muscle to fully go through that range of motion. Okay. And so when we're not allowing it to fully expand or potentially sending wrong signals to our brain, um, and rewiring, what does our body actually think it's for when it's really not gotten? So, um, so that's important. Um, and then for children, we're going to be looking for them, depending upon where they're at in the potty learning process, about every 1 to 2 hours. Um, and then we also want to avoid, um, night, uh, night time, like potty learning until they've actually managed daytime. So so those things should be separate actually absolute okay. 100%. And we'll get into a little bit of that but definitely should should be separate. So um, you know, we we really have to understand the pelvic floor before we can actually, you know, how can you understand, you know, how to operate a car and drive a car unless you actually understand that there's an engine and there there's tires, right? Like, you have to understand some mechanics, know your order to actually understand some of the principles and concepts. Absolutely. Okay. So I learned a lot just right now, um, to be honest. But I'm, I'm taking myself back to going through the potty learning, um, you know, process with my kids, my nieces, my nephews. And is that as extensive as I remember getting is just remembering it's bad to hold it. Um, and then there was also, like this unwritten rule in my family that your kids should be potty age by the time they were one, you know, they hit two and they still weren't potty trained. I mean, we didn't, you know, like bash each other, but it was concerning, you know, like we needed to get that done while they were a year old. So that kind of makes me wonder if there's some myths or misconceptions you can kind of clear up for, especially parents. Um, and talking about potty learning. Absolutely. So, um, first of all, we we tend to um, and I'm guilty of this prior to my education, um, praise things that we think art that the kiddos are doing early in development, right? We're like, oh my gosh, they started walking at nine months. And now that I know what I know, I'm like, no, push them down, let them crawl. They need those skills. Yes. Um, same thing with potty learning. So really we're teaching them at one years old. Their body is not ready for that yet, right? It really shouldn't even be considered until about three years old. Really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, three years old. Some kids can take up to four and five years old. Um, but, I mean, they have to have so many skills in place in order to adequately not just be able to void on demand. So they're having to send that signal to right, to be able to relax things in order to, to fully void. Um, but they have to be able to recognize what those internal signals are. Okay. Right. And think about like your internal signal. So we call interception in the OT world. So like the ability if your stomach's upset for you to interpret okay. Is it because I'm anxious or because I have to go poop? Or is it because I ate something bad and like, my day is done right? Like you, you learned those experiences over time to tell you what type of belly ache or, um, sensation going on in your belly. It is. Right. So that's really important to realize that before that. I mean, they're still just learning how to put two and three words together. That's absolutely right. Yeah. Um, so no, I would say potty training really, um, should not be done before the age of three. Okay. Um, it can take a lot longer, um, for them to learn different skills, and it every child's different. Um, I think another myth really is that potty training is a quick process. You know, it's not. You know, we might you might have that golden child, right? Who gets it done fast? I did not have that golden child I. Yeah. And that's, you know, that we can't put false expectations. Um, you know, in this area, we really once we start putting expectations, um, on that, then we set our kiddos up for failure and ourselves as well as parents. You know, we start to take it bad on us. Like, oh, gosh, Johnny over there. You know, his mom had him trained and and he was done in this time. And now I'm still over here and having to do this. And, um, you know, we want to be able to, um, just recognize that it's not necessarily a quick process. Right. Um, and then also another one, too, is that I hear a lot of times, um, you know, that my child's poop issues are separate from bladder, so they always want to talk about, oh, you know, about, um, urination, about, oh, you know, they're having accidents. But then and then when I start asking about constipation, they're like, oh no, no, no. Yeah. But, well, we're not gonna talk about that. Like, let's talk about this. And we what we say a lot in pelvic floor therapy is poop drives the pee. Okay, okay. So I want you to think about this. Think about this. As far as, um, you know, from a biomechanical standpoint. So you're inside, you know, your, your pelvic floor, if your rectum is full, right, and is very heavy. Right. And that rectum can expand quite a bit. And it's got compacted hard poop. It's pushing on the bladder. True. Right. Yeah. So a lot of times what's happening is the child again not quite understanding this inter perception and these, these sensations that are going on internally. They're thinking they have to pee or they are maybe leaking a little bit because that constipation is causing some of that. So we always try to address the constipation first before we ever address the urination. So it's it's a totally different mind shift. Right? I would not have thought about it like that, um, at all. But I get what you're saying. It's like you're trying to put positive connotation behind it. Less judgment, which creates a smoother process, you know, for you, for your kids. It does kind of make it easier, less, um. It doesn't feel like you're being competitive with other parents, you know, in this process. So I can see how that would change just the whole experience for for kiddos and their parents. Um, so now that I'm hearing you say it's actually good to start with constipation as maybe being the reason, um, for some of these struggles, can you give maybe some quick tips for parents, um, to support potty learning where they can keep that in mind as they're going through that? Absolutely. Um, so it's directly related to the constipation. First and foremost is going to be our water intake. Okay. Okay. So that's you know, that that can be really, really hard. Um, you know, this day and age, we have so many different options for drinks. And, um, you know, we really have to keep in mind, um, that, that we need to have nice hydration in order to have things flow appropriately. Right? Um, a lot of times, also, um, you know, parents will give their kids laxatives because they're like, oh my gosh, I know they have not pooped in a long time. And laxatives have a place and a purpose 100%. And I am not a doctor here to say this, but I'm just telling you they have a place and a purpose. But what happens is, you know, the colons body or colons are responsibility is to put water into your stool in order to help it pass nicely. What happens is when you're when you're compacted right and you can't get it out anymore and you take laxatives. Um. I'm sorry, your your colons. I say that again. Your colons responsibility is to pull water from your stool and try to use that. Okay. Okay. As a last resort of anything potentially before it expels it. Right. So its job is to pull the water out. A laxative comes in and says, hey, let's put water back into the stool in order to get it out, because we need to flush this way out. Flush it out somehow. Gotcha. So it's putting water back into the stool to flush it out. Well, what happens is those cells, right, are created to actually pull out water, but now you're rewriting and telling them, hey, no, no, no, guys, we're we're you're doing the wrong job. Put water back in. Right. Okay. So it can be really confusing. And that's when a lot of kids then tend to or even adults can tend to be reliant on laxatives in order to have normal bowel movements. You know, that makes so much sense as I'm hearing you explain it. Because we shouldn't be using laxatives for convenience, I guess, right? They're absolutely necessary for things like, I know, um, folks have gone through surgeries. If they're taking a medication that's going to cause you to have an irregular, um, you know, bowel movement or, you know, clog you up, they'll tell you, oh, it's going to stop you up. The medicine is going to make it more difficult. They'll prescribe laxatives, but that's because the medicine is causing your body did not work in an appropriate way. Right? Okay. So I can see that that makes some sense for me. And not to use the laxative as a way to, like, fulfill your own need for this to move quicker than it needs to and to recognize that what the medicine is doing is what we can do naturally. Right? Right, exactly. And that medicine is putting water back in. Okay. Right. And so let's just try our best. And I understand, you know, I empathize with parents. It can be really, really hard, right. Um, and I get that. Um, but dehydration is, is the number one cause for constipation. So really, even if we're having the child just do it frequently throughout the day. Um, also, just a quick little side note. Milk is actually creates like a mucus, okay. And it's actually more like a glue and binding. Wow. So if you're, if the kids if you're just like, oh well yeah, he has like four cups of milk a day, is that kind of fluid. It's actually going to create mucus in there. So it's actually kind of more binding. So you don't really want to count that necessarily as your your liquid intake. Um, and then um, you know, another thing too is just again, avoiding that nighttime push for dryness. Right. Let's focus on daytime before we focus on the nighttime. I think that that's a really, really important um, I think really that positive experience, that positive talk is really crucial for, for for parents to really understand, you know, think about it, um, like riding a bike, like if you went out there and you were having, like, the same expectations, let's say, for, you know, potty training, let's say if we were focusing on that potty training and then, you know, you're telling a kid, oh, man, you had an accident, Johnny, I want I really, you know, how are you supposed to ever go on, um, you know, to sleep over unless you can stay dry through the night, right. There's some of that shame. Not even intentional, but just naturally built in. Now, think about if you did that when a kid was riding a bike. Oh, man, you fell off, buddy. How are you ever supposed to go play with all your friends? Like we wouldn't do that, right? Wouldn't you? Wouldn't. They would make it two feet and fall. We'd be like, whoa! Celebrating the two feet, right? Like, let's celebrate, right? Let's change it again. It's a learning process. Positive, uplifting, giving grace. Okay. It's probably the biggest tip I can give parents. Okay, I'm feeling a little bit better about my mothering. I did jump up and down like a cheerleader whenever the kids went to the restroom, and I try not to make it a big deal. Um, you know, if it it went a different way. So you made me feel a little bit better. Okay. So. Okay, so, um, that's great for parents. I think they're really going to appreciate that. What about tips for educators in the classroom? Sure. No. I really feel for educators. Educators nowadays just have such a, a big role. Um, and I feel like a lot of times they feel like there's just not enough of them and, you know, around for all of their kids and not enough time, not enough support, everything. So I really want to empathize with them first. Um, but I think the first and foremost thing that they can do is really allow frequent bathroom breaks. Okay, so here's still I don't know. Oh, I know. Hear me out, hear me out. Okay. So what happens is, um, you know, we typically in school, you'll see a class will say, okay, well, we have, like, two bathroom breaks or there's a card over there and they can they're allowed to know three times, you know, a day. Well, let's let's talk about Johnny, who's seven, eight years old, who, you know, everyone just assumes has probably learning completely figured out. Right. He's not wanting to wear a pull up to school. God forbid a friend should see it or feel it or hear it, right? Yeah, so he's got underwear on, but he still potentially struggles a little bit. So now you've told him he can only do that 2 to 3 times a day? He has anxiety, right? When we have anxiety, everything tightens up, right? So do you think he's probably going to be focused on his work in class now? No, he's not going to be engaged. He's going to be that kid that's potentially probably getting up and down, that's asking to go do something else. It's constantly trying to avoid work because his brain is going back to, oh my gosh, I can't let myself in front of my friends, right? I need to use the bathroom. So let's allow them natural restroom breaks built into their day that they feel they get control over that, right? Um, and some children might need to go more often, you know, depending upon what they're drinking. Yeah, right. So we talked a little bit about milk also sugars. So sugary juices or anything else. Um sugar is a bladder irritant. Sugar sugar caffeine and carbonation. Oh, caffeine I know, that's why. It's why we have to pee after we drink coffee, though. No, you're right. It's because it's a bladder irritant, so it gets into our bladder. The lining is like, if I get out, I don't want you anymore. So we're having to pee more frequently. So those kiddos who are maybe only having juice. Yeah, maybe they do have to go more often because they have that irritation in their bladder. Again, it goes back to that having to have good, nice conversations with parents that they understand the importance of water as well. So you're you're reminding me of a thing I used to call the ghost pee, uh, when my kids were little, because they would say they have to pee, and then they would go and I'd barely hear anything. And I'm going. Did you finish? Take your time, you know, relaxes, you know, make sure you're done. No, I can't go anymore. And I'm going. But but they were jumping, you know, hopping up and down like they really had to go to the bathroom. A lot of that is making sense to me now. Yeah. And that very well could be that and and and rightfully so. You know our body you know we all know this. We're supposed to have water right. That's what our, our cells need. Right. We weren't designed to have fruit juices and everything else outside of just naturally inside fruit. Right. So yeah, it our body has determined, hey, I don't want to pull liquid from you in order to use for my organs. I want you gone and I want actual water. No. Exactly. So with that in mind, there's a lot of things now you can add to water. Is that okay, or is that still going to give us kind of that sugary additive that we don't really need. So I think the key is, um, and I'm not a dietitian. Okay. I want to put that out there. Um, but the key is to keep in mind that sugar is a bladder irritant. So if it has sugar in it and driving it to the water, then of course that's going to be a border irritant, right? Gotcha. Um, there is some um, like sugar added like non-sugar additive type things that can potentially do that. But I say it's better than and only that you can you can adjust how much. Right, right. So if you know if the the bottle says to squeeze one full squirt per two three ounces, maybe do a little half of that. Yeah, right. And the idea would be that our kids are drinking it, right. They feel like they still have the flavor. But then eventually over time we kind of decrease, decrease, decrease. No, you're right. I guess for me it's the same thing as when we were younger. Um, my mom wanted us to eat our vegetables, of course, but she didn't put glazes and sauces and stuff. She wanted us to eat the vegetables and enjoy the taste of those. The more you kind of add to it, you're kind of setting kids up for not enjoying the vegetable, like they need all the stuff on there so I can see the same rule applying. Get them to like water, you know, or appreciate the water, and then you won't have to worry about adding all the cute little stuff right to it. Okay, so I can't help myself, and I'm hoping that there's some listeners thinking the same. I'm hearing you explain all of this. You've got parents, you've got educators and tips for them. But I'm being a little selfish now. Um, what about just for adults? Like, what are some some things that we can keep in mind or for healthy. Um, let me say this. Right. For good pelvic health. Sure. So obviously water. Right. Okay. And over and over and over again hone in on that. Um, second is really going to be our seeding. Um, so our seeding and positioning is really important when we go to the bathroom. Um, and the reason why is let's say you go to a toilet and it's raised right and your feet don't quite hit the floor. Well, what has to happen internally in order for you to effectively avoid completely is all those muscles, again, all those layers of the muscle. You know, you got all these different muscles coming across back and forth. They all need to fully relax. You got to tell yourself you're in a safe place, and then it's going to go ahead and, um, and relax and void. Right. So what happens is if we're sitting upright and, um, we don't have our feet on the floor, we're having to use our core, which our core, a lot of that. Then think about where the pelvic floor is. Right. All of that is now tightening. So we're not actually being able to fully relax, which we need to know in order to fully avoid. So we want our feet on the floor a minimum, our feet on the floor. And that also relates to our kiddos as well. Okay. Um, so we want our feet on the floor. We also when we're having bowel movements, we actually want our our knees elevate a little bit. So squatty potties are the bee's knees I have heard okay so my mom bought my myself one. Um, I talked to my kids about using it. It does actually help. I agree with that. Yeah. Oh it it. So, you know, we're more designed to squat, right? Like that's kind of how we're designed. Um, and really, truthfully, I still squat to poop. I really, like, think about that. Right. Um, that's kind of when everything lines up perfectly. So raising the knees and leaning forward actually does help. If truthfully, does I say even do it when you're, you know, urinating or anything else to just to kind of get that same consistent posture you're telling your pelvic floor things are nice and relaxed, right. Good to go. Um, I think that that's going to be really, really important. Um, and a lot of our kids really struggle with that because, you know, toilets are made for us adults. So. Okay. For folks I know the Squatty Potty is right for folks who don't know what that is, and maybe they want to look up what it is or if they're, you know, thinking about getting one. Can you kind of explain what what it is and how that. Sure. So a squatty potty is just a brand. Um, but basically what most people know what that is. That's why we talk about that. So basically it's like a stool underneath your feet. So when you're sitting on the toilet, it's elevating your feet so that your knees are above your hips. Gotcha. So that's going to be the key right there. You could use whatever you can use step stool. The nice thing about um, squatty potties or things similar to is they also generally, um, have a little curvature around the toilet. So you can slide it back for like when the boys want to need to go and stand. Yeah. Um, that's kind of helpful. Um, but I, I let me tell you, even in our office, we have quite a few. And I pull that puppy out and I put it right in front of toilet every single time, whether it's number one, number two, it doesn't matter. Yeah. And I try to get people to understand, like, let's just keep it there because it's so important for all of us to be in an optimal position. And so what I'm hearing, Crystal, and I appreciate the information, but for those of us who are coffee drinkers and for those of us who are kind of grossed out by any yucky that could be on the toilet, like we have some stuff to figure out on how to make ourselves relax and sit in a position, um, that's better for us. Absolutely. Okay, so you've given us a lot of information today. Um, but I know there's actually more that you want to share. So are there some more potential topics that you could share with our listeners if you were to come back and talk to us? Sure. Yeah. I, I really think that, you know, it would be helpful to maybe gauge a couple different ones, maybe one for specifically speaking to those educators. Again, we gave talked just a very, very tip of the iceberg on some ideas, but really helping them kind of problem solve. Like how how does this look in the classroom? Like how can I best support my kids but still make sure that the kids aren't taking advantage of it? You know, using it as a task avoidance type? Exactly. So really talking about it, um, from an educator standpoint and how to promote bladder and bowel habits, um, in the school just for a better learning environment overall. Um, I think another one would be good would be specifically for parents, you know, so we touched a little bit of the surface, but really just being able to kind of speak from parent to parent, you know, and, and have those real conversations about what the home environment sometimes looks like and how it's okay if we get effectively it under control at home. Now, what happens is that can I have to go to rocks or I have to go somewhere else somehow where, you know, we don't have all the bells and whistles, like, what do we do then? So really talking to them and kind of problem solving some different ideas and suggestions. Um, and then lastly, I think, um, just one specific to autism, you know, it's that is just it's own population that observes just so much, um, you know, knowledge and, and expertise to really just try to help support because it just it, it, it, it really is a, um, there's so many sensory issues, there's so many, um, potential, um, you know, preferences when it comes to noises and sounds. And that really can affect overall toileting experience that I think it's a whole topic in itself that needs to be addressed completely separately. No I agree. You know, you're you're not talking, you know, just your typical things that, you know, that potentially could help you really have to kind of look at it from a much wider lens. Right. I agree, um, I think those are great topics for you to come back. So we're definitely going to get that set up. I think one of the things that is still sticking to me right now is in the very beginning, you said that you really shouldn't be looking at this any earlier than the age of three. And the first thing that popped into my mind was for parents who have kids. An age. Now you can have multiple kids potty learning at the same time. So I know that the next episode I think we should do is specifically for the parents and getting into what that looks like. Maybe we start there, love it. Um, and then get into those other ones to help educators and um, of course, of course, looking at it from the autism perspective. I love it. Okay. Thank you, Crystal, for that. That was awesome. Thanks so much for coming to talk with us today. Before we wrap up, we want to remind you that if you or someone you know is facing a crisis, help is available. You are not alone. If it's an emergency, please call 911 for immediate support. You can reach out to the Crisis and Suicide hotline by dialing 988. Remember, taking the first step to ask for help is a sign of strength. Stay safe. Take care of yourself and take care of each other. Until next time, be well. You. Next time.