Episode 17: When the World Isn’t Built for You: Neurodiversity & Mental Health

In this episode, Athena Cordero sits down with Jennifer Cork, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Doctor of Social Work, author, and keynote speaker who is also as autistic. Jennifer brings both professional expertise and lived experience to a powerful conversation about neurodiversity, mental health, and what autistic individuals truly need to thrive, especially during life transitions.

Jennifer shares her journey from elementary education into social work, disability services, and eventually private practice, where she now works almost exclusively with neurodivergent children, teens, and adults. She explains why many of the challenges her clients face, such as anxiety, depression, burnout, and trauma, cannot be addressed in therapy alone, but are rooted in systems that were never designed to support neurodivergent minds.

The conversation explores masking, emotional regulation, anxiety‑based behaviors, and how autism often presents differently in women and girls, leading many to be misdiagnosed or diagnosed later in life. Jennifer also discusses the curriculum she developed to address critical gaps in mental health care for neurodivergent clients and the research behind her book, What’s Your Anxiety Level?

As the keynote speaker for the April 14th Regional Captain X Conference, Jennifer previews her talk on navigating life transitions while supporting the mental health needs of autistic learners, highlighting why the transition to adulthood is one of the most vulnerable and overlooked periods. This episode offers clinicians, educators, parents, and autistic individuals practical insight, compassionate understanding, and hope rooted in possibility.

Highlights

• Jennifer shares insight as both an autistic individual and a licensed clinical social worker.
• Clear explanation of neurodiversity and neurodivergence for parents, educators, and clinicians.
• Discussion of anxiety‑driven behaviors and emotional regulation challenges.
• Why autism often presents differently in women and girls.
• Exploration of masking and its emotional impact over time.
• Preview of Jennifer’s keynote and clinician training on life transitions.

Key Takeaways

• Many mental health challenges stem from systems not built for neurodivergent minds.
• Anxiety in autistic individuals is often misunderstood as behavioral issues.
• Autism in women and girls is frequently missed or diagnosed later.
• Masking can help navigate systems but often leads to burnout.
• Life transitions require intentional planning and explicit supports.
• Autistic individuals need to hear possibility‑focused narratives.

Thanks for listening! Follow us on Facebook and Instagram | www.cahelp.org | podcast@cahelp.org

Transcript

00:00:09 Intro 

The relentless pursuit of whatever works in the life of a child. 

00:00:18 Intro 

Welcome to Fostering Futures with CAHELP, a podcast dedicated to our relentless pursuit of whatever works in the life of a child. 

00:00:26 Athena Cordero 

I'm your host, Athena Cordero, inviting you to join me and countless others as we share our unique perspectives and expertise in the world of special education, behavioral health, social-emotional well-being, and community. 

00:00:39 Athena Cordero 

Follow us on Buzzsprout, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts. 

00:00:45 Athena Cordero 

Welcome to Fostering Futures, everybody. 

00:00:47 Athena Cordero 

I'm Athena Cordero, and today I'm talking to Jennifer Cork. 

00:00:52 Athena Cordero 

And Jennifer, you have some really exciting things coming up that we're going to talk about. 

00:00:57 Athena Cordero 

But before we do that, I want to give listeners a chance to get to know who you are. 

00:01:02 Athena Cordero 

You are on the spectrum, and you are a clinical social worker. 

00:01:10 Athena Cordero 

Tell us a little bit more about your background, like the job you do, the role you do, like what you get to do for work. 

00:01:16 Jennifer Cork 

So I am a licensed clinical social worker and also a doctor of social work. 

00:01:22 Jennifer Cork 

So I have a private practice. 

00:01:25 Jennifer Cork 

I live in Salem, Oregon, and I serve, I'm licensed in Oregon and Idaho. 

00:01:31 Jennifer Cork 

Idaho's where I grew up. 

00:01:33 Jennifer Cork 

So, and so along with my therapy practice, 

00:01:38 Jennifer Cork 

I also do a lot of community education. 

00:01:42 Jennifer Cork 

I do consultation. 

00:01:44 Jennifer Cork 

I'm A registered supervisor, so I can supervise other social work associates. 

00:01:50 Jennifer Cork 

And so I do, in social work, we talk a lot about micro, macro, and meso practice. 

00:01:58 Jennifer Cork 

So I'm a social worker that wanted to do all of that, not just 

00:02:03 Jennifer Cork 

not just the micro practice, and especially for the neurodivergent community, a lot of the things facing individuals, whether they're autistic, have ADHD, or intellectual disabilities, or some have all of those, the issues that often bring them to me in my office can't be solved just in my office, because a lot of it has to do with systemic issues. 

00:02:31 Jennifer Cork 

And so 

00:02:32 Jennifer Cork 

Micro practice is that one-on-one work. 

00:02:35 Jennifer Cork 

Mesopractice is more at the community level. 

00:02:38 Jennifer Cork 

And then macro practice is that the systems. 

00:02:41 Jennifer Cork 

So I started out, my bachelor's is actually in elementary education. 

00:02:50 Jennifer Cork 

I just wanted a job that made a difference, that made the world a better place. 

00:02:54 Jennifer Cork 

And that as a first generation college student, 

00:02:58 Jennifer Cork 

raised in a more conservative community where the expectation was that you get married and have kids and you stay home. 

00:03:05 Jennifer Cork 

Yeah, seems like an acceptable place to start. 

00:03:10 Jennifer Cork 

But then No Child Left Behind passed while I was in college. 

00:03:14 Jennifer Cork 

And the full implications of that bill weren't clear until my senior year when it was too late to change my mind, I felt like. 

00:03:22 Jennifer Cork 

So I graduated, but I didn't want to teach kids to take standardized 

00:03:29 Jennifer Cork 

Right, yeah. 

00:03:30 Jennifer Cork 

And so that along with just living in an area that was kind of inundated with teachers, not enough jobs to go around, I ended up in a special ed classroom. 

00:03:41 Jennifer Cork 

And then I moved from there to working in disability services. 

00:03:46 Jennifer Cork 

So I did that for about 3 1/2 years when the Great Recession happened and the state started making cuts. 

00:03:54 Jennifer Cork 

And so my husband and I were... 

00:03:57 Jennifer Cork 

All of it. 

00:04:00 Jennifer Cork 

So my husband and I were both working in jobs that, we're social services, the state was cutting. 

00:04:06 Jennifer Cork 

We thought one of us needs to go back and get a master's degree so that if our jobs go away, one of us at least was employed. 

00:04:14 Jennifer Cork 

And so that's when I started a social work program. 

00:04:17 Jennifer Cork 

So I continued to work in disability studies. 

00:04:19 Jennifer Cork 

So by the time I graduated with my MSW, I had 10 years. 

00:04:24 Jennifer Cork 

serving the autistic community and children and teens with disabilities. 

00:04:30 Jennifer Cork 

And so I knew I wanted to continue serving that community, but in the mental health setting. 

00:04:36 Jennifer Cork 

And so that's, I've been doing that since 2014, seeing almost exclusively neurodivergent clients. 

00:04:45 Jennifer Cork 

And so it became immediately apparent 

00:04:48 Jennifer Cork 

that what was bringing my clients in with anxiety and depression and PTSD, that a lot of it just had to do with the fact society didn't really understand or adequately support them. 

00:05:00 Jennifer Cork 

They're trying to exist in this world that's not created for them. 

00:05:04 Jennifer Cork 

That causes anxiety and depression and sometimes PTSD. 

00:05:08 Jennifer Cork 

And so I started doing community trainings just at a local basis almost as soon as I finished 

00:05:15 Jennifer Cork 

my MSW through my local chapter of the Autism Society of America. 

00:05:20 Jennifer Cork 

So I wanted to expand on that. 

00:05:23 Jennifer Cork 

And then also I had kind of created my own therapy curriculum because that's another thing I discovered in my social work 

00:05:35 Jennifer Cork 

my master's degree is that there's not a lot of mental health resources for the neurodivergent community. 

00:05:43 Jennifer Cork 

And so... 

00:05:44 Athena Cordero 

Okay, I'm sorry. 

00:05:45 Athena Cordero 

And you're a busy lady, but I want to make sure that the listeners are following too. 

00:05:51 Athena Cordero 

So when you say neurodivergent, for the average listener or someone who hasn't had a chance to really look into that, can you explain to us what that means? 

00:06:00 Jennifer Cork 

So when we talk about neurodiversity, everyone's neurodiverse because all of our brains are different. 

00:06:07 Jennifer Cork 

When we talk about neurodivergent or people who are neurodivergent, we're talking about people whose brains developed a little bit outside of the norm. 

00:06:17 Jennifer Cork 

So that can be used very broadly. 

00:06:19 Jennifer Cork 

So sometimes that's including any kind of 

00:06:25 Jennifer Cork 

any kind of difference, like even mental health, like someone with anxiety, their brain may be wired a little different, so that term can be used there. 

00:06:33 Jennifer Cork 

I'm using it a little more narrow. 

00:06:36 Jennifer Cork 

So people who during the neurodevelopmental period, that their brains are developing a little bit 

00:06:43 Jennifer Cork 

outside of what is considered typical. 

00:06:46 Jennifer Cork 

So that can be, I'm usually talking about ADHD, autism, intellectual disability, dyslexia, things like disabilities like that. 

00:06:59 Jennifer Cork 

And so. 

00:07:01 Athena Cordero 

Okay, so that's helpful. 

00:07:03 Athena Cordero 

I mean, that's helpful. 

00:07:04 Athena Cordero 

And so now. 

00:07:05 Athena Cordero 

So now talk to me about this curriculum, because you're right. 

00:07:08 Athena Cordero 

Usually curriculum is created for a particular type of... 

00:07:15 Athena Cordero 

Yeah, so talk to me about the need you've seen and then what was that like, would you create? 

00:07:20 Jennifer Cork 

So while I was in grad school, I started doing research on what would be the most appropriate or evidence-based treatment modalities for, I think I started out with autism. 

00:07:33 Jennifer Cork 

And I remember doing a paper on that topic and barely finding enough resources to meet criteria to write the paper. 

00:07:43 Jennifer Cork 

That was how little that there was. 

00:07:45 Jennifer Cork 

We're talking about, you know, 10 to 15 years ago. 

00:07:49 Jennifer Cork 

It was not that long ago. 

00:07:51 Jennifer Cork 

And so what I found was that cognitive behavior therapy or CBT seemed to be a promising intervention. 

00:07:58 Jennifer Cork 

And so I just kind of jumped in and 

00:08:02 Jennifer Cork 

I did as much study on CBT as I could, along with critics of criticisms of CBT. 

00:08:08 Jennifer Cork 

And then using, you know, my 10 years experience, my ed degree, what I had learned about CBT, I created a curriculum also based on the fact that most, especially the children and teens, but even some of the adults that were being referred to me, that most of them were struggling with. 

00:08:30 Jennifer Cork 

difficulties with emotional regulation and impulse control. 

00:08:33 Jennifer Cork 

Like a lot of them, especially, are going into the fight response, having these big anger outbursts, and everyone's missing the fact that these are sudden anxiety, that people don't have anger issues, they have anxiety issues that are coming out in a fight response. 

00:08:52 Jennifer Cork 

And so 

00:08:54 Jennifer Cork 

What I created really focuses on helping people identify and understand their emotions, communicate those emotions to others, and then what do you do about it, finding healthy coping skills. 

00:09:09 Jennifer Cork 

And so after that, it's just a lot of repeats and working on generalization. 

00:09:15 Jennifer Cork 

I involve a lot of natural support systems with, depending on the age, you know, getting that client 

00:09:23 Jennifer Cork 

permission. 

00:09:24 Athena Cordero 

What do you mean? 

00:09:24 Athena Cordero 

So when you say a natural support system, what do you mean? 

00:09:27 Jennifer Cork 

Like parents, teachers, coaches. 

00:09:31 Jennifer Cork 

So trying to create something that could be used across the board that would be easy to explain and understand. 

00:09:37 Jennifer Cork 

And so my second reason for getting my doctoral degree is that what I was doing was working really well. 

00:09:44 Jennifer Cork 

And my husband kept encouraging me to 

00:09:47 Jennifer Cork 

I should write it and publish it so that other people could benefit knowing that there wasn't enough resources out there. 

00:09:54 Jennifer Cork 

And so I kept saying, nobody's going to publish me. 

00:09:57 Jennifer Cork 

I'm nobody. 

00:09:58 Jennifer Cork 

And so then finally I was like, let me get a doctoral degree. 

00:10:01 Jennifer Cork 

I can do more studies. 

00:10:02 Jennifer Cork 

And I specifically went to a university who they didn't do a thesis. 

00:10:08 Jennifer Cork 

They did a capstone project. 

00:10:10 Jennifer Cork 

And so this was my capstone project. 

00:10:12 Jennifer Cork 

So then after graduation, then I sought publication and my book 

00:10:17 Jennifer Cork 

came out last October. 

00:10:19 Athena Cordero 

What is the name of your book? 

00:10:21 Jennifer Cork 

So I have a copy here. 

00:10:23 Jennifer Cork 

It's called What's Your Anxiety Level? 

00:10:26 Jennifer Cork 

Whoops, let me find my camera. 

00:10:27 Jennifer Cork 

Cognitive Behavior Therapy for Neurodivergent Children and Teens with Co-Occurring Anxiety Disorders. 

00:10:34 Jennifer Cork 

Awesome. 

00:10:34 Athena Cordero 

Awesome. 

00:10:34 Athena Cordero 

So what we'll do is when your episode goes out, we'll make sure we put the title in there so folks can find it. 

00:10:41 Jennifer Cork 

Yeah. 

00:10:42 Jennifer Cork 

So and it's through Rutledge Press. 

00:10:45 Jennifer Cork 

Okay. 

00:10:47 Athena Cordero 

Okay, so with all, that was a lot. 

00:10:50 Athena Cordero 

That's A lot. 

00:10:50 Athena Cordero 

You're busy. 

00:10:51 Athena Cordero 

Like I said, you're a busy lady. 

00:10:53 Athena Cordero 

With all of that, talk to me about when you even first understood, you know, that you were on the spectrum. 

00:11:04 Athena Cordero 

What was that like for you? 

00:11:04 Athena Cordero 

How old were you? 

00:11:06 Athena Cordero 

What was that experience like? 

00:11:07 Athena Cordero 

Just first understanding what that even means. 

00:11:11 Jennifer Cork 

So 

00:11:12 Jennifer Cork 

I, like I said, when I started working with autistic people, I really didn't know very much about autism at all. 

00:11:20 Jennifer Cork 

Like a lot of people, Rain Man was what I knew. 

00:11:23 Athena Cordero 

Okay. 

00:11:25 Jennifer Cork 

So I'm starting at 0 and I'll hit. 

00:11:28 Jennifer Cork 

Okay. 

00:11:28 Jennifer Cork 

And then over the years, you know, I learned a lot, quite a bit about autism. 

00:11:32 Jennifer Cork 

And, you know, especially when I entered into working in mental health, I'm working, you know, 

00:11:39 Jennifer Cork 

When I was doing disability services, I worked more with younger kids. 

00:11:44 Jennifer Cork 

when I moved into mental health, I'm working with older kids and teens and adults. 

00:11:48 Jennifer Cork 

And so I did start seeing some things, but I didn't, that I related to, I have pretty significant social anxiety of sensory issues, but I also 

00:12:00 Jennifer Cork 

kind of pushed that aside. 

00:12:02 Jennifer Cork 

I didn't want to be one of those people that's like, oh, everyone's a little autistic. 

00:12:06 Jennifer Cork 

Yeah. 

00:12:07 Jennifer Cork 

And so I also was working more with, the kids and teens and higher need adults, people that needed. 

00:12:14 Jennifer Cork 

weren't their own guardians, weren't able to live on their own. 

00:12:18 Jennifer Cork 

And so their autism looks very different than mine. 

00:12:21 Jennifer Cork 

When I moved to Oregon four years ago, I started seeing more adults that were low support need, high masking, you know, people that were professionals or, you know, various jobs and things. 

00:12:37 Jennifer Cork 

And that's when I started 

00:12:39 Jennifer Cork 

not being able to ignore what was relating to as much. 

00:12:43 Jennifer Cork 

But also I was in the middle of my doctoral program and doing a deep dive on what the research says autism and ADHD looks like in women and girls. 

00:12:53 Jennifer Cork 

And then it, you know, just became apparent that I needed to go get testing. 

00:12:58 Athena Cordero 

And so you, I appreciate you said it like that though, because 

00:13:03 Athena Cordero 

I looked up, a couple of things. 

00:13:05 Athena Cordero 

I've had the opportunity to interview some folks here at our organization and talk to some others. 

00:13:11 Athena Cordero 

And it does, I have heard a few times now that it looks different in women and girls. 

00:13:17 Athena Cordero 

And at first I almost felt uncomfortable talking about it like that. 

00:13:23 Athena Cordero 

But there are differences and I, you know, you shouldn't feel uncomfortable. 

00:13:26 Athena Cordero 

Can you talk to me a little bit about 

00:13:28 Athena Cordero 

maybe what some of those, what are some of those things? 

00:13:31 Athena Cordero 

Like what might you see differently in a young girl or in a woman that is autistic that you wouldn't necessarily see in boys or men? 

00:13:40 Jennifer Cork 

Well, what the research is pointing to, and I'll add that I initially was kind of embarrassed because I had been working with autistic people for 20 years before I started to suspect and then eventually got my diagnosis. 

00:13:55 Jennifer Cork 

And so how did I not? 

00:13:57 Athena Cordero 

Yeah. 

00:13:58 Jennifer Cork 

How did I not identify this? 

00:13:59 Jennifer Cork 

But then I realized that most of the research I was looking at was less than five years old. 

00:14:05 Jennifer Cork 

And so a lot of researchers are starting to call this female presenting autism. 

00:14:12 Jennifer Cork 

Not that everyone that presents with these traits is female, but it's because we mostly just were testing boys, we missed. 

00:14:22 Jennifer Cork 

these traits. 

00:14:23 Jennifer Cork 

And so now that they're studying how autism presents in female, we're seeing so things like autistic girls do tend to be more social than that stereotypical male presenting autism. 

00:14:43 Jennifer Cork 

But it's still like if you pay attention, like I know the book Autism in Heals by Jennifer Cook used to be O'Toole. 

00:14:52 Jennifer Cork 

I think her, she's remarried and has a, I don't remember her last name. 

00:14:58 Jennifer Cork 

But the book says Jennifer Cook O'Toole. 

00:15:01 Jennifer Cork 

She talks about, you know, 

00:15:05 Jennifer Cork 

girls look like, autistic girls look like they're playing with the other girls, but if you pay attention, they're kind of mingling and not truly joining in. 

00:15:14 Jennifer Cork 

We also do a lot more socialization for girls, like teaching how to act. 

00:15:22 Jennifer Cork 

And you'll also see a lot more of that female presenting autism. 

00:15:27 Jennifer Cork 

These are like the perfectly behaved children. 

00:15:29 Jennifer Cork 

And I certainly fell into that category, like the rule followers that don't ever want to be in trouble. 

00:15:36 Jennifer Cork 

They that they, you know, just work really hard to 

00:15:44 Jennifer Cork 

to not be a problem for anyone. 

00:15:46 Jennifer Cork 

You see that heightened sense of social justice. 

00:15:51 Jennifer Cork 

And so I know the psychologist that did my testing said most of the adult women he was testing for autism were in jobs like social work, nursing, special education, early childhood education. 

00:16:03 Jennifer Cork 

It's like we see the problems in the world and we can't ignore them. 

00:16:06 Jennifer Cork 

We've got to do something about them. 

00:16:08 Jennifer Cork 

And that was certainly something that I felt very strongly at a pretty young age. 

00:16:14 Jennifer Cork 

age. 

00:16:16 Jennifer Cork 

there's also some differences is that sometimes the special interests that autistic women and girls will engage in, they aren't as unusual maybe as that stereotypical male presenting. 

00:16:30 Jennifer Cork 

Like we aren't obsessed with trains or. 

00:16:34 Athena Cordero 

Gotcha. 

00:16:34 Athena Cordero 

Okay. 

00:16:35 Jennifer Cork 

But it's like horses and 

00:16:38 Jennifer Cork 

Anne of Green Gables, maybe like things that other girls are also interested in, so it doesn't stand out. 

00:16:46 Jennifer Cork 

And so those are some of the things, I think, speech patterns that can present differently. 

00:16:57 Jennifer Cork 

There's a difference between top-down and bottom-up processing. 

00:17:02 Jennifer Cork 

And so 

00:17:03 Jennifer Cork 

Bottom-up, it's like you have to tell the whole picture, and if you pay attention, you'll note that I'm doing this a lot. 

00:17:10 Jennifer Cork 

I can't just like answer a question. 

00:17:12 Jennifer Cork 

I have to give you like all of the background behind it. 

00:17:16 Jennifer Cork 

And I know I see that a lot in therapy is that sometimes someone will come in and be like, you know, oh, people are too sensitive these days. 

00:17:26 Jennifer Cork 

And then it will take them 20 minutes to get to like the two-minute story of why they made that comment. 

00:17:33 Jennifer Cork 

But if I stop and interrupt, like, come on, get to the point. 

00:17:36 Jennifer Cork 

then you'll see like that a shutdown or because their brain has to go on the journeys. 

00:17:45 Jennifer Cork 

That's the way they process things, so they have to share it in that way. 

00:17:50 Jennifer Cork 

Sir, those are just a few of the things. 

00:17:54 Athena Cordero 

That's really interesting, though. 

00:17:55 Athena Cordero 

I did notice that you give a lot of the information. 

00:17:59 Athena Cordero 

However, for me in this setting, that's perfect because I would be asking all the follow-up questions anyway. 

00:18:05 Athena Cordero 

You know, typically I would ask you, what does that acronym mean? 

00:18:08 Athena Cordero 

What do you mean by, you know, these type of symptoms versus these? 

00:18:13 Athena Cordero 

And I do. 

00:18:14 Athena Cordero 

I jump in and ask people to give me more. 

00:18:16 Athena Cordero 

And I haven't had to do that with you, which is perfect, actually. 

00:18:20 Athena Cordero 

Another thing I wanted to ask is I read a lot about masking. 

00:18:24 Athena Cordero 

You mentioned that just a couple of moments ago. 

00:18:27 Athena Cordero 

What is that like? 

00:18:29 Athena Cordero 

Is that something that you're, that, you know, anybody maybe on the spectrum, wherever they are on the spectrum is aware of that they're doing? 

00:18:36 Athena Cordero 

Is it intentional or is that something that kind of comes with managing 

00:18:42 Athena Cordero 

being on the spectrum. 

00:18:43 Athena Cordero 

I'm not sure I tried to look into it a little bit. 

00:18:45 Athena Cordero 

It sounded like something I really wanted to hear from a person rather than reading it, you know? 

00:18:49 Jennifer Cork 

Right. 

00:18:50 Jennifer Cork 

Yeah. 

00:18:51 Jennifer Cork 

I think that's a little bit different for everyone and something I've been processing myself and, you know, what does that look like for me? 

00:19:00 Jennifer Cork 

So I know for some people, it's like a very, 

00:19:05 Jennifer Cork 

something they are doing very mindfully that, this is now I have to look like this and act like this and that it can be very exhausting and take a toll. 

00:19:16 Jennifer Cork 

So I've had clients, for example, that, when one woman I remember was going to college and 

00:19:26 Jennifer Cork 

working a part-time job, and she had to plan a two to three-hour break between college and work because she would have to come home after college and sit in a dark room with no noise for two or three hours to be able to then go to work and perform. 

00:19:44 Jennifer Cork 

The masking and trying to fit in and present as neurotypical took such a toll that without that break in the dark, she wasn't able to do both of those things. 

00:19:57 Jennifer Cork 

I know other people have described it. 

00:19:59 Jennifer Cork 

There's a book called The Journal of Best Practices that was a late diagnosed man. 

00:20:05 Jennifer Cork 

I think it's about 15 years old or so. 

00:20:10 Jennifer Cork 

But he talked about putting on personas or, you know, now I'm the perfect best friend guy and now I'm the perfect boyfriend. 

00:20:18 Jennifer Cork 

And that for him, 

00:20:21 Jennifer Cork 

that was easy to do. 

00:20:23 Jennifer Cork 

And I think you'll see a lot of autistic people, there's a lot of autistic actors. 

00:20:28 Jennifer Cork 

So Dan Aykroyd, Daryl Hannah, Anthony Hopkins, I do not know that. 

00:20:34 Jennifer Cork 

And I think that comes from like, we're always kind of acting, trying to fit into this world again that was not meant for us. 

00:20:42 Jennifer Cork 

So for me, being very rule-based, 

00:20:45 Jennifer Cork 

I would go into social groups and try to figure out what are the rules here. 

00:20:50 Jennifer Cork 

And then when I know the rules, I just follow them. 

00:20:52 Jennifer Cork 

And that takes away some of the anxiety. 

00:20:56 Jennifer Cork 

I don't feel that toll from masking in a way that other people do unless I'm going into a situation where I don't know the social rules. 

00:21:06 Jennifer Cork 

And that is extremely stressful for me. 

00:21:10 Jennifer Cork 

So I know that I have people that I trust, mostly my spouse, but... 

00:21:16 Jennifer Cork 

where I'll be like, okay, we're going into this new situation and now this is just our routine. 

00:21:22 Jennifer Cork 

Like he'll sit down and explain to me like all the social rules, like, you know, like when we moved, we had to go to a different place to get the oil changed. 

00:21:31 Jennifer Cork 

And so he like explains like where I drove and what they would do and what I should say and. 

00:21:38 Athena Cordero 

Got it. 

00:21:39 Athena Cordero 

Yeah. 

00:21:40 Jennifer Cork 

And then he like, I think took me 

00:21:45 Jennifer Cork 

He took me and then after that, I was able to do it myself. 

00:21:49 Jennifer Cork 

But the idea of just going into that blind is terrifying. 

00:21:54 Athena Cordero 

I'll be real honest with you. 

00:21:56 Athena Cordero 

I think a lot of us feel like that. 

00:21:58 Athena Cordero 

I just want to go and do the same thing every time. 

00:22:00 Athena Cordero 

I don't want to have to think about this. 

00:22:02 Athena Cordero 

But that is kind of where the anxiety comes from then, right? 

00:22:05 Athena Cordero 

Is having to figure out that new 

00:22:08 Athena Cordero 

transition or that new situation. 

00:22:10 Athena Cordero 

And I think that is what your keynote is about, right? 

00:22:14 Athena Cordero 

It's talking about, I think I have it here, it's talking about navigating life transitions and still supporting mental health needs for autistic learners. 

00:22:23 Athena Cordero 

Talk to me without giving away too much of your keynote. 

00:22:27 Athena Cordero 

Talk to me a little bit about that. 

00:22:29 Athena Cordero 

When you say navigating life transitions, give me an example maybe of 1. 

00:22:35 Jennifer Cork 

I think one of the hardest life transitions for autistic people is that transition to adulthood. 

00:22:44 Jennifer Cork 

I think it's difficult not just for the autistic person, but their support system as well, like letting go. 

00:22:51 Jennifer Cork 

And I've seen that really go terribly. 

00:22:56 Jennifer Cork 

Or, you know, not just like sometimes for everyone, but you have that 

00:23:03 Jennifer Cork 

That failure to launch, I think that's much more common in autistic adults than it is for the average non-autistic or allistic, sometimes the term is used, adults. 

00:23:17 Jennifer Cork 

So it can happen to anyone, but maybe you've been good in school, but then you go to college and it's a little different and the supports are less substantial. 

00:23:30 Jennifer Cork 

I could talk about university issues. 

00:23:33 Jennifer Cork 

I will avoid going on a tangent there, but the universities are often not very supportive of neurodivergent students. 

00:23:42 Jennifer Cork 

And so, you know, you've been doing well, you do think you've got this, you go out for the first time on your own and you fail. 

00:23:50 Jennifer Cork 

That can cause autistic burnout that some people just 

00:23:55 Jennifer Cork 

just really struggle to recover from. 

00:23:57 Jennifer Cork 

But also thinking about the fact one of the traits of autism is insistence on routine and distress when the routines change, you're suddenly like without her your routine. 

00:24:10 Jennifer Cork 

You know, this was a time that was really difficult for myself as well when I went into a period where I didn't leave my house for six months. 

00:24:20 Jennifer Cork 

And so I was able to pull myself out of that. 

00:24:23 Jennifer Cork 

And it was partially because I had a good support system that I had rebuilt for myself, but not everyone has that or they, no fault on the support system, just can't seem to get past that. 

00:24:38 Jennifer Cork 

So I think that's probably the time when I would say that there's the most risk for poor outcomes. 

00:24:46 Jennifer Cork 

But even like, 

00:24:49 Jennifer Cork 

we do, we have a lot of knowledge when, early childhood education and K through 12 education and disability services on transitions, like giving, transition warnings and picture schedules. 

00:25:06 Jennifer Cork 

We've got all of these tools. 

00:25:08 Jennifer Cork 

And I'm seeing that we're not necessarily making sure people know how to use those independently. 

00:25:14 Jennifer Cork 

So 

00:25:15 Jennifer Cork 

even sometimes simple transitions then later on can be difficult. 

00:25:20 Jennifer Cork 

I had a guy that I was working with that lived with parents. 

00:25:26 Jennifer Cork 

They loved to go camping at their cabin in the summer, and then they expressed that every time, like, he loved to go, but every time he would come home, he'd have these huge meltdowns. 

00:25:38 Jennifer Cork 

And so I kind of guessed that 

00:25:42 Jennifer Cork 

that it was because he, it was that transition, like back home from camping. 

00:25:48 Jennifer Cork 

And so I said, that morning that you're going to leave, sit down, write out everything you're going to do. 

00:25:54 Jennifer Cork 

You're going to pack up and clean up and load the car. 

00:25:57 Jennifer Cork 

It's going to take this long to drive home. 

00:25:59 Jennifer Cork 

Like, what's he going to do after? 

00:26:00 Jennifer Cork 

Watch a show, take a nap, whatever, and see how that goes. 

00:26:05 Jennifer Cork 

And they came back, it worked perfectly. 

00:26:08 Jennifer Cork 

They acted like I was a genius. 

00:26:10 Jennifer Cork 

And I'm like, that was a pretty standard intervention. 

00:26:15 Jennifer Cork 

But nobody had taught the family to use that independently. 

00:26:19 Jennifer Cork 

And he had moved past any sort of disability supports at that point. 

00:26:27 Jennifer Cork 

And so they didn't know. 

00:26:30 Jennifer Cork 

That's one of the things I want to talk about is how do you make sure people know how to do this themselves because you're not going to be there. 

00:26:37 Jennifer Cork 

The support services aren't going to be there forever. 

00:26:40 Athena Cordero 

It's really interesting you say that. 

00:26:43 Athena Cordero 

I just was having a conversation with a couple people about, because I have an adult child, right? 

00:26:50 Athena Cordero 

She's 20. 

00:26:51 Athena Cordero 

And I remember when she, when I was pregnant with her, everybody gave me all of the advice, new baby, first baby, everything from feeding to sleeping to schedules to playtime, you know, tummy time, all the things overwhelmed with information, advice from, you know, loved ones, friends. 

00:27:10 Athena Cordero 

I've got nothing on how to adult, be the parent of an adult. 

00:27:14 Athena Cordero 

There's not that same amount of, advice that you get when they're smaller. 

00:27:21 Athena Cordero 

And I remember I asked him, I finally asked somebody like, how come this wasn't in the brochures? 

00:27:26 Athena Cordero 

You know, where was the how to parent an adult? 

00:27:31 Athena Cordero 

You know, all that influx of advice and support. 

00:27:35 Athena Cordero 

And not that, 

00:27:36 Athena Cordero 

I don't get help or talk about it, but it's nowhere near like when you have a baby. 

00:27:42 Jennifer Cork 

Right. 

00:27:43 Jennifer Cork 

Absolutely. 

00:27:44 Athena Cordero 

Yeah, it's that transition where it's like, oh, she's got adult kids. 

00:27:47 Athena Cordero 

Like, she's not, you know, yeah, that's, you're going to have to figure that out. 

00:27:53 Athena Cordero 

But it is a huge transition. 

00:27:55 Athena Cordero 

And I can see how needing a routine, needing to see what comes next, 

00:28:01 Athena Cordero 

would be very difficult in that time of life, especially because we don't always know what's going to come next. 

00:28:08 Athena Cordero 

As adults, it's not that scripted. 

00:28:11 Jennifer Cork 

Right. 

00:28:12 Jennifer Cork 

Well, and I think that's a really good point is that transition to adulthood is hard for a lot of people, regardless of their neurotype. 

00:28:20 Jennifer Cork 

But when you throw in the, you know, change is hard. 

00:28:25 Jennifer Cork 

to autism, it definitely increases that risk during that time. 

00:28:30 Athena Cordero 

Wow. 

00:28:31 Athena Cordero 

I have learned in this little bit of time, you've unpacked a lot for me. 

00:28:36 Athena Cordero 

So thank you. 

00:28:37 Athena Cordero 

I appreciate that. 

00:28:38 Athena Cordero 

I do want to talk a little bit more about the conference. 

00:28:41 Athena Cordero 

It is April 14th. 

00:28:45 Athena Cordero 

And again, you're going to be the keynote speaker. 

00:28:47 Athena Cordero 

You're talking about navigating life transitions while supporting the mental health needs of autistic learners. 

00:28:55 Athena Cordero 

And I think we have some more information after this episode. 

00:29:00 Athena Cordero 

You guys can stay tuned for more info about the actual event, like how to register, things like that. 

00:29:04 Athena Cordero 

But it is April 14, 2026. 

00:29:07 Athena Cordero 

I want to play a tiny 

00:29:09 Athena Cordero 

game. 

00:29:11 Athena Cordero 

Just to end our time together, I'm going to say a sentence starter and I want you to just finish the sentence for me. 

00:29:20 Athena Cordero 

OK. 

00:29:22 Jennifer Cork 

And this is. 

00:29:23 Jennifer Cork 

Can I mention that the day before, so April 13th, that I am doing a training just for mental health therapists. 

00:29:33 Jennifer Cork 

It's 6 hours. 

00:29:35 Jennifer Cork 

It is credentialed for continuing education. 

00:29:39 Jennifer Cork 

I can send you a flyer with the information, but it's for treating neurodivergent clients in the mental health setting. 

00:29:48 Athena Cordero 

Perfect. 

00:29:49 Athena Cordero 

That's perfect. 

00:29:50 Athena Cordero 

We'll make sure to put that flyer, this flyer, and the title of your book on our landing page so people can find that. 

00:29:59 Athena Cordero 

That's perfect. 

00:30:00 Athena Cordero 

Okay, let's call this what I wish people knew about autism. 

00:30:04 Athena Cordero 

Okay, I'll give you a prompt and I just want you to finish it. 

00:30:07 Athena Cordero 

I have a couple of them. 

00:30:08 Athena Cordero 

So the first one is, I wish teachers knew. 

00:30:13 Jennifer Cork 

Oh, that autism looks different for every person. 

00:30:19 Athena Cordero 

I wish parents understood. 

00:30:25 Jennifer Cork 

But that's a tough one. 

00:30:31 Athena Cordero 

Sorry. 

00:30:32 Jennifer Cork 

I think that a lot of parents understood that, if they're worried about doing a good job, they're probably doing a good job. 

00:30:40 Athena Cordero 

That's great. 

00:30:41 Athena Cordero 

Actually, I love that. 

00:30:42 Athena Cordero 

I love that. 

00:30:43 Athena Cordero 

Okay, two more. 

00:30:44 Athena Cordero 

I wish clinicians stopped. 

00:30:53 Jennifer Cork 

I think I wish clinicians. 

00:30:55 Jennifer Cork 

would stop saying that they were affirming anew about autism just because they read one book or attended one training. 

00:31:03 Jennifer Cork 

Okay. 

00:31:05 Athena Cordero 

Fair. 

00:31:07 Athena Cordero 

Okay. 

00:31:07 Athena Cordero 

And the last one is, I wish autistic kids heard. 

00:31:13 Jennifer Cork 

From more autistic adult song on the possibilities. 

00:31:18 Jennifer Cork 

I'm, you know, I remember reading 

00:31:23 Jennifer Cork 

Dr. 

00:31:23 Jennifer Cork 

Kerry Magro has a book that he put out called Autistics on Autism, I think. 

00:31:29 Jennifer Cork 

And it's a lot of essays from, I believe it's students that are applying for his, this scholarship program that he has. 

00:31:40 Jennifer Cork 

And I couldn't read the essays, like I had to let it kind of space them out because it was one after another student. 

00:31:50 Jennifer Cork 

saying that they had been told when they were young that they would never do things like go to college or work or, and here we're all of these very bright, intelligent people that were doing those very things. 

00:32:06 Jennifer Cork 

And so not every autistic person is going to go to college. 

00:32:09 Jennifer Cork 

There are people with very substantial support needs, but you know, just because you're autistic doesn't mean that you're 

00:32:18 Jennifer Cork 

doomed to be a low achiever. 

00:32:20 Athena Cordero 

Right. 

00:32:21 Athena Cordero 

And just like you said, what did you call it when you're not autistic? 

00:32:24 Athena Cordero 

Not every holistic person is going to go to college either. 

00:32:30 Athena Cordero 

It's not for everyone. 

00:32:31 Athena Cordero 

So I do for whoever's, you know, has a chance to listen to this. 

00:32:37 Athena Cordero 

And they know a younger person who might have heard something along those lines or is feeling like that. 

00:32:43 Athena Cordero 

I hope this is a great example. 

00:32:45 Athena Cordero 

You are very, very much dwell achieved. 

00:32:48 Athena Cordero 

with years of experience and a lot of great advice and interventions to offer others. 

00:32:55 Athena Cordero 

I hope people take you up on this six-hour training on the 13th. 

00:32:58 Athena Cordero 

It seems like it's a lot of good information, but it was a pleasure, a pleasure talking to you. 

00:33:04 Athena Cordero 

Thank you for giving us all the examples, and I hope that you have a beautiful time at the conference there in for a treat, for sure. 

00:33:12 Jennifer Cork 

All right. 

00:33:13 Jennifer Cork 

Thank you so much. 

00:33:14 Athena Cordero 

Thank you. 

00:33:17 Outro and Ad 

Before we wrap up, we want to remind you that if you or someone is facing a crisis, help is available. 

00:33:25 Outro and Ad 

You are not alone. 

00:33:27 Outro and Ad 

If it's an emergency, please call 911. 

00:33:31 Outro and Ad 

For immediate support, you can reach out to the Crisis and Suicide Hotline by dialing 988. 

00:33:38 Outro and Ad 

Remember, taking the first step to ask for help is a sign of strength. 

00:33:43 Outro and Ad 

Stay safe, take care of yourself, 

00:33:46 Outro and Ad 

and take care of each other. 

00:33:48 Outro and Ad 

Until next time, be well. 

00:33:52 Outro and Ad 

We're sitting down with Paul, Coordinator for Children Deserve Success at SBCSS, for a powerful conversation about advocacy, stability, and the behind-the-scenes work that changes outcomes for foster youth. 

00:34:04 Outro and Ad 

Looking at real insight, real impact, and a few why don't we do this everywhere moments that really shine a light on the needs of our area. 

00:34:12 Outro and Ad 

See you next time.