Fostering Futures℠
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Our mission is to engage and expand our audience by delivering thought-provoking material that focuses on key areas crucial to the development and well-being of all youth. Through our discussions, we aim to provide insights that are not only relevant but also transformative.
Join us as we explore innovative approaches in special education, Social Emotional Well-Being, and Community. Be ready to be apart of a community committed to making a positive impact.
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Fostering Futures℠
Foster Youth EP 7 - Helping Students Show Up: Child Welfare and Attendance in Action
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In this episode of Fostering Futures with CAHELP, Athena Cordero sits down with Renee Castillo, Director of Child Welfare and Attendance at Apple Valley Unified School District, to explore how attendance, stability, and student well‑being are deeply connected.
Renee shares her experience across nearly three decades in education, including lessons learned from her time in Vermont and how those insights shaped her work supporting students today. The conversation breaks down the true role of child welfare and attendance moving beyond compliance to focus on connection, trust, and removing barriers that prevent students from accessing school.
Athena and Renee discuss the unique challenges foster youth face, including placement changes, mandated appointments, and trauma that impacts both physical and emotional attendance. They also explore how schools and districts support families through interventions, home visits, and collaborative efforts with community partners before ever reaching formal processes like School Attendance Review Boards (SARB).
This episode highlights the importance of relationships, communication, and empathy in supporting students and families, while offering real examples of how schools can create stability, build trust, and ensure every child has access to learning.
Highlights
- Renee explains the full scope of Child Welfare and Attendance (CWA) beyond compliance.
- Insight into how trauma impacts both physical and emotional attendance.
- Real examples of supporting families through homelessness and crisis.
- Breakdown of interventions used before formal processes like SARB.
- Emphasis on building trust with families through communication and relationships.
- Discussion of challenges schools face in supporting attendance today.
Key Takeaways
- Attendance challenges are often driven by barriers, not neglect.
- Emotional disengagement can impact learning just as much as physical absence.
- Building trust with families is essential for long-term success.
- Early intervention and communication prevent escalation to punitive actions.
- Foster youth need consistency, stability, and strong relationships to succeed.
- Schools, families, and agencies must work together to support student outcomes.
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00:00:09 Intro
The relentless pursuit of whatever works in the life of a child.
00:00:18 Intro
Welcome to Fostering Futures with CAHELP, a podcast dedicated to our relentless pursuit of whatever works in the life of a child.
00:00:26 Intro
I'm your host, Athena Cordero, inviting you to join me and countless others as we share our unique perspectives and expertise in the world of special education, behavioral health, social-emotional well-being, and community.
00:00:39 Intro
Follow us on Buzzsprout, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.
00:00:45 Athena Cordero
Welcome to fostering futures everyone.
00:00:47 Athena Cordero
I'm Athena Cordero and today we have Renee Castillo.
00:00:51 Athena Cordero
She is the director of child welfare and attendance with Apple Valley Unified School District and Renee, how long have you been with Apple Valley?
00:01:01 Renee Castillo
Well, I worked in education for about 27 years now.
00:01:04 Renee Castillo
I started as a teacher with Apple Valley Unified School District and then around 2012 or 13, I went into a similar position of
00:01:15 Renee Castillo
Wasn't called child welfare in attendance at the time, but covered some of the same areas And then went to Rio Vista as an assistant principal and then I moved to Vermont for three years and Yeah, it was great and there I was a principal of a school ironically named Barstow Elementary School.
00:01:35 Renee Castillo
That isn't ironic and
00:01:39 Renee Castillo
Then we decided I had a great experience there and the education system there is very different.
00:01:45 Renee Castillo
But I brought back a lot of skill, especially around social emotional well-being for kids and dealing with students with challenging behaviors.
00:01:53 Renee Castillo
And so when I returned to the district in 2018, I was the coordinator of student services.
00:02:02 Renee Castillo
And we also brought in some BCBA and behavior management at that time.
00:02:07 Renee Castillo
and then promoted to director of student services.
00:02:11 Renee Castillo
And then when our child welfare and attendance person retired, I moved back into this position as a director.
00:02:17 Renee Castillo
So I've been with the district or within education for about 27 years now.
00:02:21 Athena Cordero
So I have to ask, because I had no idea you lived in Vermont for three years, what do you think, and I know it's probably hard to answer, but what's one of the biggest differences you've probably seen in education in Vermont versus here in California?
00:02:35 Renee Castillo
They are,
00:02:37 Renee Castillo
a lot less litigious.
00:02:40 Renee Castillo
Okay.
00:02:41 Athena Cordero
Give me an example.
00:02:42 Renee Castillo
So like there's, there are not so many legal requirements kind of restricting what you're allowed to do.
00:02:49 Renee Castillo
Okay.
00:02:50 Renee Castillo
The students, they really,
00:02:53 Renee Castillo
incorporate the outdoors in everything, their PE, just their lifestyle.
00:02:59 Renee Castillo
They are very outdoorsy people and they allow, like we had an outdoor classroom that was down by a stream that students could be outside for hours doing their writing and language arts work or,
00:03:13 Renee Castillo
For PE, we were able to go skiing and snowshoeing and rock climbing.
00:03:19 Renee Castillo
And that wouldn't happen out here just because of all the legality around students potentially getting hurt.
00:03:27 Renee Castillo
So there was that as well as our special education was all inclusion.
00:03:33 Renee Castillo
So our special educators would go into the classroom and support students that way.
00:03:38 Renee Castillo
And that's really where I learned a lot about zones of regulation and social-emotional regulation with students through the amazing behavior support person that worked at our school.
00:03:51 Renee Castillo
And so I took that knowledge and how...
00:03:54 Renee Castillo
they addressed behavior and brought that back with me.
00:03:58 Renee Castillo
And we've been trying to implement some of those practices into what we do to support students in Apple Valley.
00:04:05 Athena Cordero
That's so interesting because especially in a time where technology, social media kind of takes over if you let it,
00:04:16 Athena Cordero
to have a school setting where you can get closer to nature outside, I can't even imagine, what kind of impact that must have on student learning.
00:04:28 Athena Cordero
I'm sure it's an amazing impact, but I would like, I want to see it, just to see what it looks like for them.
00:04:34 Renee Castillo
Yeah.
00:04:34 Renee Castillo
It was amazing.
00:04:35 Renee Castillo
It was, the kids out there are truly blessed to be able to have those opportunities.
00:04:39 Athena Cordero
That's awesome.
00:04:40 Athena Cordero
And I'm a little jealous, I think right now.
00:04:42 Athena Cordero
Yeah, just a tiny bit.
00:04:43 Athena Cordero
Okay, so I could probably ask you a thousand more
00:04:46 Athena Cordero
questions about Vermont, but we won't do that.
00:04:49 Athena Cordero
We really wanted to talk about child welfare and attendance today.
00:04:52 Athena Cordero
We're going to look at how maybe our foster youth, what the experience might be like for them.
00:04:58 Athena Cordero
But I do want to know more about it, you know, and just kind of give a broad understanding of what it is and then maybe narrow down just a little bit, okay?
00:05:10 Athena Cordero
So
00:05:12 Athena Cordero
First off, why is it that child welfare and attendance impacts student outcomes so much?
00:05:19 Athena Cordero
Like, what is the impact that has on student learning, student outcomes?
00:05:23 Renee Castillo
Well, I think the focus of our department is basically to maintain
00:05:28 Renee Castillo
a supportive access to school and to make sure that the student's overall well-being is taken care of.
00:05:35 Renee Castillo
So we do that through safety with supporting school sites with any disciplinary measures.
00:05:42 Renee Castillo
Our office in general will take more formal bullying complaints where if parents are feeling that maybe it wasn't handled
00:05:51 Renee Castillo
at the school site which most often it is handled but sometimes it doesn't stop or maybe it needs another set of eyes to do some investigation right we do that at a more formal level through our district or through our department and then for attendance we oversee I oversee enrollment and I'm in communication with the school sites and the principals regarding truancy and chronic absenteeism and then
00:06:20 Renee Castillo
I do wellness checks with our nurses and our district police department.
00:06:26 Renee Castillo
We will go to homes and if we haven't had eyes on students in a while, we want to make that connection.
00:06:32 Renee Castillo
Then we want to have a discussion about what those barriers are and see how we can help to get the students back in school.
00:06:40 Renee Castillo
And then
00:06:41 Renee Castillo
like kind of last resort, we have our SARB process, our truancy and SARB process, which if, you know, we've tried everything else to improve attendance and work with families.
00:06:50 Renee Castillo
If we just can't seem to get that attendance improved, we'll go ahead and follow the SARB process.
00:06:58 Athena Cordero
So you mentioned barriers that could be preventing students from attending school, right?
00:07:05 Athena Cordero
When it comes to foster youth, are there different, I would imagine, barriers
00:07:12 Athena Cordero
for our foster kiddos when it comes to attendance.
00:07:16 Renee Castillo
Sometimes they overlap with just the general population, but a lot of times they'll have high absentee rate due to maybe a change in placement or to sometimes they have mandated appointments, either court appearances, doctor's appointments, counseling, visits.
00:07:36 Renee Castillo
And so we have really no control over those things.
00:07:41 Renee Castillo
So those students might experience that.
00:07:44 Renee Castillo
And then they also have kind of not only the physical absence, but the emotional or the engagement piece of being in the classroom.
00:07:52 Renee Castillo
And a lot of times that stems from their trauma.
00:07:56 Renee Castillo
Yeah.
00:07:56 Renee Castillo
You know, that's a trauma response.
00:07:59 Renee Castillo
Sometimes they're not intentionally trying to not pay attention, and it could look like that from the outside in.
00:08:06 Renee Castillo
that you know they could very well be kind of scanning their environment for safety because of you know what they've experienced prior to coming into school.
00:08:16 Athena Cordero
That's interesting I don't think I've ever heard anyone explain it as a difference between a physical absence and an emotional absence really when I get I get what you're saying but you're right just being there
00:08:29 Athena Cordero
in person doesn't necessarily mean you're in the moment.
00:08:32 Renee Castillo
Correct.
00:08:33 Athena Cordero
And if you've come from, you know, a tough situation or you've, you have some trauma that you're struggling with, you could absolutely kind of sit there and just zone out.
00:08:43 Athena Cordero
How, how would, you know, classroom teachers, aides, like, how do you spot that?
00:08:50 Athena Cordero
You know, how do you get ahead of that if a child is there physically, but they're not, you know, they're not really there.
00:08:57 Renee Castillo
I think it depends, sometimes if the student's been in your classroom, which is another reason why school of origin is so important, because you're maintaining those consistent relationships.
00:09:07 Renee Castillo
If you know a student, you're able to pick up on things, maybe like a change in their mood, that change in their engagement.
00:09:17 Renee Castillo
They might be withdrawing.
00:09:19 Renee Castillo
They might no longer partake in activities that they used to enjoy doing.
00:09:25 Renee Castillo
You may see maybe even some aggressive behavior start to develop.
00:09:29 Renee Castillo
So I think if you have that relationship with a student, you're able to check in with them, make sure everything's okay, make sure they're safe, see if there's anything that they need.
00:09:38 Renee Castillo
And then also, you know, use your other resources that you have at your school site or within your district or even within our community to get a student connected with any support that they might need.
00:09:49 Athena Cordero
Yeah, so.
00:09:51 Athena Cordero
Thank you for the example, because what I'm what I would like to do, what I'm trying to do is imagine myself in the classroom as a teacher, and for the kiddos that have been with me for a bit, and I can kind of...
00:10:04 Athena Cordero
point out their personalities or their habits in class, I feel like that works.
00:10:09 Athena Cordero
Athena's a little quiet today, or Renee is acting a little more talkative than usual, not wanting to pay attention or whatever.
00:10:18 Athena Cordero
But if I know that this is a new placement for one of my students, that they're in foster care, I don't know.
00:10:26 Athena Cordero
I don't know what's usual or typical for them.
00:10:28 Athena Cordero
Is there anything that I can do as a teacher?
00:10:31 Athena Cordero
to kind of help to check without knowing, I guess, or anything I can put in place to support that.
00:10:37 Renee Castillo
I think just make it, trying to make that connection with the student.
00:10:40 Renee Castillo
Yeah.
00:10:41 Renee Castillo
Getting to know them just.
00:10:44 Renee Castillo
on a personal level, like what do they enjoy?
00:10:46 Renee Castillo
What kind of, do they enjoy sports?
00:10:49 Renee Castillo
Do they enjoy gaming?
00:10:51 Renee Castillo
What shows do they watch?
00:10:52 Renee Castillo
Do they participate in any activities?
00:10:55 Renee Castillo
Having conversations and getting to know them and then just checking in, you know, after the weekend, hey, you know, did you have a baseball game this weekend?
00:11:03 Renee Castillo
How did that go?
00:11:04 Renee Castillo
You know, just starting to build those relationships.
00:11:07 Renee Castillo
Letting them know that you're a trusting adult that they could come to if they have anything.
00:11:13 Renee Castillo
Because you can imagine being in foster care, the trauma that was behind that, and then all of the people that they don't have a connection with that have released, came in to control their lives, right?
00:11:23 Renee Castillo
Like they've been removed from their family by strangers.
00:11:26 Renee Castillo
They've been placed in a new home with strangers.
00:11:29 Renee Castillo
They're possibly at a new school with strangers.
00:11:32 Renee Castillo
And so being able to trust people is probably very low on the priority list with him right now.
00:11:40 Renee Castillo
And so being able to just slowly and being
00:11:43 Renee Castillo
patient, you know, letting them know I'm here for you, you know, if there's anything that you need.
00:11:48 Renee Castillo
And then getting them even connected with other people at your school site is really important.
00:11:54 Renee Castillo
And then over time, even just exploring options like, hey, you know, if you need a break at all here, here's something, you know, just let me know or here's a signal we have, you can take a break and just letting them having some compassion.
00:12:09 Athena Cordero
Yeah, it's also very
00:12:14 Athena Cordero
similar to the normal classroom setup, when you're looking at things in terms of tiers, like what you offer everybody, what you have to offer a few, what you only offer Athena or Renee because of what they need.
00:12:25 Athena Cordero
But those are very practical things, just asking, how was your weekend?
00:12:30 Athena Cordero
Who knows the last time, someone took an interest even so simple and what that conversation might, kind of lead to or the comfort it might lead to.
00:12:39 Athena Cordero
And that's something that we can do, right?
00:12:41 Athena Cordero
That's something we can all do.
00:12:42 Athena Cordero
It costs no money.
00:12:43 Athena Cordero
Right.
00:12:43 Athena Cordero
It takes 20 seconds.
00:12:45 Athena Cordero
Exactly.
00:12:46 Athena Cordero
Yeah, exactly.
00:12:47 Athena Cordero
Okay, I love that.
00:12:49 Athena Cordero
You did mention SARB a minute ago, and I want to go back to that because sometimes
00:12:54 Athena Cordero
When folks hear CWA, child welfare and attendance, they think of compliance or rules or truancy or things like that because something has happened and now there's some trouble and there's accountability.
00:13:07 Athena Cordero
And that's not necessarily it because just a second ago you gave the example about maybe bullying or what children might be experiencing on campus that need.
00:13:16 Athena Cordero
a specific department to look further into.
00:13:19 Athena Cordero
And so I do want to talk about the compliance piece a little.
00:13:25 Athena Cordero
But what I'm hearing is that's not the whole story, you know, behind child welfare and attendance.
00:13:31 Athena Cordero
It's not just accountability.
00:13:33 Athena Cordero
But what is the SARB?
00:13:34 Athena Cordero
What does SARB stand for?
00:13:36 Athena Cordero
What is that process?
00:13:37 Renee Castillo
It's the Student Attendance Review Board.
00:13:39 Renee Castillo
Okay.
00:13:39 Renee Castillo
And so like within our district, we have the truancy letters.
00:13:44 Renee Castillo
So they'll receive multiple letters.
00:13:48 Renee Castillo
For unexcused absences, kind of putting it on the radar of the parent, just letting you know that your student has 3 unexcused absences.
00:13:56 Renee Castillo
And so just asking them to work with the school and give them the name of.
00:14:03 Renee Castillo
administration, counselors, and resources at their specific school site that they could reach out to for support if they could be of any help.
00:14:13 Renee Castillo
And then if the attendance still doesn't improve, the schools will do a SART meeting, a Student Attendance Review Team meeting.
00:14:21 Renee Castillo
And they'll invite the parent, and that's where they really want to, at the school level, want to speak with the parent, find out what the barriers are, and then utilize whatever resources we have in the district or connections we have within the community.
00:14:34 Renee Castillo
We also have family center coordinators that have very close community connections.
00:14:38 Renee Castillo
And so it's just working with them, hearing what they need and giving them that support to remove those barriers.
00:14:45 Renee Castillo
And then we monitor and if attendance still doesn't improve and we've pretty much exhausted all the tools in our toolbox, then it has to become
00:14:56 Renee Castillo
a little bit more punitive, and it does go to the SARB panel, which basically is myself, the district attorney, probation, and we talk with the parent and we outline
00:15:12 Renee Castillo
the communication that we've had with them, the attempts to resolve the issues, the supports and resources put into place to remove the barriers, and just outline that according to law, they are required for their children to be attending school.
00:15:27 Renee Castillo
And they get placed on a formal contract for that.
00:15:30 Athena Cordero
So in all honesty, Renee, that sounds intimidating to me.
00:15:35 Athena Cordero
It is, right?
00:15:36 Athena Cordero
It does sound like I'm sitting down with the authorities
00:15:40 Athena Cordero
talking to me about why I can't get my kid, your kids, in school like they should be.
00:15:46 Athena Cordero
And I know nobody wants to get to that place, right?
00:15:50 Athena Cordero
Especially for you all who have to sit there and outline that for them.
00:15:54 Athena Cordero
And I would imagine some circumstances absolutely look neglectful, and then some circumstances probably look like,
00:16:02 Athena Cordero
Wow, they're having a tough time, but we have to do what we have to do.
00:16:05 Athena Cordero
We still have to go over this, right?
00:16:07 Athena Cordero
What are some things that, if you can give me like some specific examples of interventions that you've seen work where it looks like a family is right on the border of probably having to go to that more formal process, but it kept the kids from entering that.
00:16:24 Athena Cordero
Are there any interventions you can share that you've seen that have been really helpful?
00:16:28 Renee Castillo
Like I think of,
00:16:30 Renee Castillo
One family in particular that we've worked with over the years, they were struggling under McKinney-Vento, the homeless act.
00:16:38 Renee Castillo
And they were doing the best with what they had.
00:16:43 Renee Castillo
Their living situation was probably not one that anybody would want to be in, but the students' basic needs were being met.
00:16:50 Renee Castillo
They had food, clothing, shelter.
00:16:52 Renee Castillo
They were being cared for in a loving way.
00:16:56 Renee Castillo
And we provided transportation to their school of origin.
00:17:02 Renee Castillo
And we also got them in connection with our family center coordinators in the food pantry.
00:17:06 Renee Castillo
So we made sure that they always had food.
00:17:08 Renee Castillo
They had electricity, they had running water, they had heat.
00:17:12 Renee Castillo
And
00:17:14 Renee Castillo
We just had that communication with the family.
00:17:17 Renee Castillo
I mean, communication is key.
00:17:18 Renee Castillo
And a lot of times when families are in that situation, it's not something they're proud of.
00:17:23 Renee Castillo
They don't always want to share that information, which is completely understandable.
00:17:27 Renee Castillo
And that's why those trusting relationships are so important.
00:17:31 Renee Castillo
This family in particular, our school police
00:17:36 Renee Castillo
found out about their situation and actually asked if he could bring me over just to show how they were just making use of their resources, not in a way to report them to CPS or anything like that, because homelessness doesn't mean a student's being neglected, correct?
00:17:52 Renee Castillo
So in no way were we looking at it from a punitive measure, but to look at how they were just making use of their resources.
00:18:05 Renee Castillo
And so that parent felt that level of trust with us.
00:18:08 Renee Castillo
And so anytime their situation changed or a different need came about, they were willing to communicate with us.
00:18:14 Renee Castillo
And so it really helped us, no matter where they were living, to stay on top of it and make sure their kids had a seamless...
00:18:22 Renee Castillo
access to their education and any other resources that they might need.
00:18:27 Renee Castillo
Unfortunately, not that long ago, something not even related to their homeless status or anything occurred, and the students were removed from the home and are now in foster care.
00:18:39 Renee Castillo
But still, the parent maintained the relationship with us and advocated for them to remain at School of Origin, even though they're living in Victorville in the neighboring city.
00:18:51 Renee Castillo
And through connections that I have through as the foster youth liaison with San Bernardino County, I was able to kind of track and monitor where they were in that process of removal and get in contact with the social worker.
00:19:05 Renee Castillo
And we were able to reach out to the foster family and get transportation set up so they could remain at their school of origin and maintain that level of consistency.
00:19:17 Renee Castillo
And their foster family was
00:19:20 Renee Castillo
more than cooperative and has been since.
00:19:22 Athena Cordero
That, wow, I'm trying to walk myself through that story, right?
00:19:27 Athena Cordero
As you're sharing it with me, and it sounds like somewhere in there, I don't know where, you all were able to take a family that probably didn't trust anybody, you know, and offer them that, and them accepting it,
00:19:47 Athena Cordero
They didn't feel like they had been tricked, into, oh, great, now there's this compliance piece and we're going to be punished because we shared so much with you.
00:19:57 Athena Cordero
It was really looking at it to see how you can help them with the resources they had, make the situation as positive as you could, right, for that family.
00:20:06 Athena Cordero
And of course, things happen, whether they had control over it or not, which
00:20:12 Athena Cordero
kind of hurts more when you think about it, especially when they're trying so hard with what they have.
00:20:18 Athena Cordero
But I mean, at least you are able to keep track and follow them through and, kind of stick it out with them is what it sounds like.
00:20:26 Athena Cordero
Do you, as I'm listening to you talk right now, how do you not take that stuff home with you?
00:20:33 Athena Cordero
You know, and I imagine you do, you have to, right?
00:20:36 Athena Cordero
How do you balance that just for yourself, you know, in this role?
00:20:39 Renee Castillo
Yeah.
00:20:42 Renee Castillo
It is hard not to take it home or to spend your weekends thinking about, especially when families are experiencing homelessness, right?
00:20:49 Renee Castillo
Because your hands are tied as far as what you can, you can't help everybody, especially when it's a financial situation.
00:20:58 Renee Castillo
Just getting them and knowing that I'm doing everything that I possibly can, exhausting all the resources, getting them in connection with who I think might be able to help them more than I can.
00:21:13 Renee Castillo
That helps because I know that I'm doing all that I possibly can, but that's within my control.
00:21:20 Renee Castillo
And then I just have my own kind of self-care, exercising and kind of like a self-meditation and just taking time to make sure that my
00:21:31 Renee Castillo
mental health and physical well-being are taken care of too.
00:21:35 Renee Castillo
And that helps to go back to work and be refreshed.
00:21:37 Renee Castillo
But even just the success stories, like, just knowing that if you set up transportation for a student and they showed up at school or when their family situation changes that they call you to tell you.
00:21:50 Renee Castillo
To me, that means everything because that's trust.
00:21:52 Renee Castillo
A lot of times they don't know me because I'm at the district office.
00:21:56 Renee Castillo
I'm a phone call or I'm a stranger showing up at their doorstep to check and make sure their child is okay.
00:22:02 Renee Castillo
Often getting confused with Child Protective Services because child welfare and attendance sounds so similar.
00:22:08 Renee Castillo
So sometimes they see a police officer that automatically for some families puts up the guard and then they see a strange lady standing at their door, possibly two if one of the district
00:22:20 Renee Castillo
nurses are with us.
00:22:20 Renee Castillo
And so it's all about, you know, how you how you interact with people and your body language.
00:22:30 Renee Castillo
Yeah, your demeanor, your tone, your facial expressions, you know, how you're standing, all of that kind of stuff plays into a knock at somebody's door.
00:22:38 Renee Castillo
And so I think it's just really important to be aware of all those things.
00:22:42 Renee Castillo
And when a family shows that they're willing to share information with me,
00:22:49 Renee Castillo
with that even that beginning level of trust that makes me feel really good because now I know like, okay, now we can work together.
00:22:56 Renee Castillo
You're going to trust me that I'm really only here to help you.
00:23:00 Renee Castillo
even though I'm a stranger.
00:23:01 Renee Castillo
So I always try to encourage even that, like the principals, they're so busy managing their schools on the day-to-day and everything that happens.
00:23:08 Renee Castillo
But, if they're able to either come with us or do a home visit first, because, how meaningful is that when a student or a parent answers the door and your principal's standing on your doorstep, right?
00:23:20 Renee Castillo
Or your assistant principal.
00:23:22 Renee Castillo
you care enough to show up at my house.
00:23:24 Athena Cordero
That would, and again, I'm just thinking about myself, right?
00:23:28 Athena Cordero
If I was in a really tough situation and there's someone at my door that I don't know, it would kind of feel like the law is at my door, right?
00:23:37 Athena Cordero
But if that person was there with my kid's principal, you know, or assistant principal or counselor, whatever,
00:23:44 Athena Cordero
I think I would probably be a little less defensive because my family.
00:23:50 Athena Cordero
So at least if I'm talking, I can look at you going, this, like, what's been going on.
00:23:56 Athena Cordero
That would kind of ease me into opening the door a little bit more.
00:24:00 Renee Castillo
I could see that.
00:24:02 Athena Cordero
Okay, so there probably is some misunderstanding on the family's part about what
00:24:09 Athena Cordero
a director of child welfare and attendance is really there to do for them, actually, not to them.
00:24:15 Athena Cordero
Is there anything that you think schools misunderstand, you know, about child attendance or absences that you wish that they could either look at it a little differently or have the time to look at it a little differently?
00:24:29 Renee Castillo
Yeah, I work, we work very closely in our school district.
00:24:33 Renee Castillo
I can only speak to my school district.
00:24:36 Renee Castillo
We're not a huge district, so we have that ability.
00:24:40 Renee Castillo
And so we spend a lot of time working one-on-one with each other.
00:24:45 Renee Castillo
So they have a pretty good understanding of my role and how I can assist them in different things.
00:24:49 Renee Castillo
Okay.
00:24:51 Renee Castillo
Excuse me?
00:24:54 Athena Cordero
But, sorry, I have a problem.
00:24:59 Athena Cordero
It's okay.
00:25:01 Athena Cordero
So let's pause for a second, then Jake will be able to find it.
00:25:03 Athena Cordero
You can go ahead and drink.
00:25:04 Athena Cordero
Yeah.
00:25:05 Athena Cordero
And then he can cut all this out.
00:25:06 Athena Cordero
We'll be all right.
00:25:11 Renee Castillo
Oh, sorry.
00:25:12 Renee Castillo
It was okay.
00:25:14 Renee Castillo
All right, which one were we on?
00:25:18 Athena Cordero
It was about the school's misunderstanding what families deal with, with attendance challenges.
00:25:24 Athena Cordero
And you were saying that you guys are small enough, you meet one-on-one, they understand your role really well.
00:25:34 Athena Cordero
Okay, that's okay.
00:25:36 Athena Cordero
Do you want me to ask the question again?
00:25:41 Renee Castillo
Yeah, let me find where I wrote because I feel like I had some, I can't think right this, okay, for that one, I'm like, no way, I know I was like, oh, because that one took me a minute.
00:25:54 Athena Cordero
And I think the way I had it on here is I asked what was one thing schools misunderstand about foster families dealing with attendance.
00:26:01 Athena Cordero
But I would, I'm just gonna, we could just open that up to what, you know, they might misunderstand about families dealing.
00:26:06 Athena Cordero
What number did you have it under?
00:26:07 Athena Cordero
That was under 5, under family and caregiver partnership.
00:26:13 Renee Castillo
Okay.
00:26:13 Renee Castillo
Yeah.
00:26:14 Renee Castillo
Okay.
00:26:15 Athena Cordero
You got it.
00:26:15 Renee Castillo
Yep.
00:26:16 Athena Cordero
Okay.
00:26:16 Athena Cordero
You want me to ask the question again?
00:26:17 Athena Cordero
Yes, please.
00:26:18 Athena Cordero
Okay.
00:26:19 Athena Cordero
So just in listening to, you know, how we're describing that family sometimes might, I don't know, be a little less trusting, a little defensive when they're thinking about child welfare and attendance, you know, and having people come to my home and check on my child, they probably misunderstand a little bit that you're actually there to support first.
00:26:40 Athena Cordero
You don't really want to get to that point any more than they do.
00:26:44 Athena Cordero
Is there anything that maybe the schools or administrators or teachers, just on the education side might misunderstand as well about, foster families, just families in general, dealing with attendance challenges?
00:26:59 Renee Castillo
I know not only our foster youth, but a lot of these, a lot of our parents are kind of in survival mode.
00:27:09 Renee Castillo
especially foster youth with their trauma backgrounds, a lot of the students are having it like a trauma, they're dealing with an immediate trauma response, right?
00:27:18 Renee Castillo
The students were taken from their family, no matter what the situation, that's still their family, that's still their parent that they love.
00:27:27 Renee Castillo
and they're taken and they're placed with strangers.
00:27:29 Renee Castillo
And so whatever the abuse or neglect was on top of everything else they're dealing with, they've got that trauma response.
00:27:38 Renee Castillo
We also have students that are not in foster care that are dealing with depression and anxiety.
00:27:43 Renee Castillo
And our families are really struggling with how to support their students.
00:27:49 Renee Castillo
And oftentimes students have refusal, school refusal.
00:27:53 Renee Castillo
And
00:27:54 Renee Castillo
The parents will say, I just can't get them to school.
00:27:57 Renee Castillo
And especially as students are older, you can't just pick up your student and put them in the car and get them to school.
00:28:06 Renee Castillo
sometimes I go to the homes and the students are bigger than their parents.
00:28:11 Renee Castillo
and they're like, I don't know what to do.
00:28:13 Renee Castillo
And so it's getting them connected with those resources, whether it be foster care like wraparound services or student getting them connected with counseling, either through their own private insurance or even through our school district.
00:28:28 Renee Castillo
We have options available for them.
00:28:30 Renee Castillo
Some of our schools even have
00:28:33 Renee Castillo
licensed therapists at them.
00:28:35 Renee Castillo
And so getting them in connection with that support to help deal with that.
00:28:39 Renee Castillo
But when you're at the school level, if you're not at the home or you're not having that communication with the family for whatever reason, you don't see the struggle that's going on and how desperate sometimes the families are.
00:28:53 Renee Castillo
They want the support.
00:28:54 Renee Castillo
They want their student to go to school.
00:28:55 Renee Castillo
They just either don't know how to get them there or have tried everything that they can and it's just not working.
00:29:01 Athena Cordero
That's interesting.
00:29:02 Athena Cordero
So, you shared when we first started talking that you've been in education for about 27 years.
00:29:08 Athena Cordero
And I know you started off as a teacher, maybe not necessarily focused on attendance, but I would imagine that you've seen some patterns from them till now that have changed a little bit.
00:29:20 Athena Cordero
What do you think is probably one of the most
00:29:23 Athena Cordero
I don't know, one of the biggest differences in attendance, child welfare and attendance today than maybe like 25 years ago when we probably weren't even calling it, you know, referring to it that way.
00:29:35 Athena Cordero
Are there any differences now or anything that's gotten more challenging that you can point out?
00:29:41 Renee Castillo
I think there are definitely higher levels of depression and anxiety amongst our students.
00:29:47 Renee Castillo
And, you know, one of the
00:29:50 Renee Castillo
one of the things that I have noticed, and I don't really know the reason behind it, and it's not a finger pointing or a blaming, but I have come across where it seems like there are some parenting skills that aren't there or aren't strong enough, or maybe some boundaries about, you know,
00:30:12 Renee Castillo
being a parent versus a friend type thing, where the reinforcement of expectations of consequences, whether positive or negative consequences, students aren't being maybe held accountable.
00:30:27 Renee Castillo
And that's not in every family or in every household, but it does come up.
00:30:30 Renee Castillo
And
00:30:32 Renee Castillo
so we'd like to support parents through, different trainings that either are offered through the SELPA or offered through our school district to help them with those things.
00:30:43 Renee Castillo
But we have no control over that, right?
00:30:45 Renee Castillo
We can offer it and the parent has to be willing to accept that.
00:30:50 Renee Castillo
But some of those types of things, that makes it difficult because that's totally out of our control.
00:30:55 Athena Cordero
You know, it's, thank you for sharing that because I had a conversation
00:31:01 Athena Cordero
with my own mother not too long ago where we were talking about the healthy fear kids used to have of their parents.
00:31:09 Athena Cordero
Not fearful, afraid to breathe, but a healthy fear, almost like a fear of disappointing them.
00:31:16 Athena Cordero
And how we don't see it like that, you know, really anymore.
00:31:21 Athena Cordero
And the same as I was telling her in the classroom, I remember having a healthy fear of my teacher, you know, the kind of the same way that I did
00:31:28 Athena Cordero
of my parents where I didn't want to disappoint my teacher.
00:31:33 Athena Cordero
You know what I mean?
00:31:33 Athena Cordero
Behavior wise, academically, I looked at it a little different.
00:31:37 Athena Cordero
Whereas now, even in my time in the classroom, kids are equipped with so much more information now that there's like a there's more power struggle than I've ever seen before, you know, whether I was a student or in the classroom as the adult.
00:31:57 Athena Cordero
the power struggle is off the charts.
00:31:59 Athena Cordero
And then the adults have a really hard time with how far to go in that struggle because you're the professional, you're the educator, not the parent.
00:32:09 Athena Cordero
And it gets rough, you know, in there.
00:32:12 Athena Cordero
And so I get what you mean.
00:32:13 Athena Cordero
You know, the skill set, yes, but the environment, the context too is
00:32:20 Athena Cordero
I mean, just way different than it was, you know, 223 decades ago.
00:32:26 Athena Cordero
So that's got to be challenging, you know, in the classroom and also during those trainings where you're trying to help, you know, give parents like some confidence in their, you know, their authority as the parent, right?
00:32:39 Athena Cordero
I can't imagine what that feels like right now.
00:32:42 Athena Cordero
I mean, I'm very fortunate, I guess, to not have that type of.
00:32:47 Athena Cordero
structure.
00:32:48 Athena Cordero
I'm still a little, you know, have a healthy for my mom right now.
00:32:52 Athena Cordero
Exactly.
00:32:53 Athena Cordero
I still, I still kind of watch, you know, what I say, how I say it in front of her, even though I'm an, I'm an adult.
00:32:59 Athena Cordero
In those trainings, do you hear parents saying things like that or, you know, admitting to those things?
00:33:06 Athena Cordero
Or are they, are, you know, are they there just kind of
00:33:11 Athena Cordero
confused by why this is such a struggle for them and why they're hearing it that way?
00:33:15 Athena Cordero
Like what's the response, I guess, you get from parents in that setting?
00:33:19 Renee Castillo
Well, like one of the things I like to, so let's say a student's not attending school.
00:33:23 Athena Cordero
Yeah.
00:33:24 Renee Castillo
One of my first questions to the parent is, does a student have a cell phone?
00:33:28 Renee Castillo
And oftentimes, 9 times out of 10, it's yes.
00:33:31 Renee Castillo
And I say, do they have it right now?
00:33:33 Athena Cordero
Yeah.
00:33:34 Renee Castillo
Yes.
00:33:34 Renee Castillo
And I said, and I just, I try to equate it to, being an adult and having a job.
00:33:40 Renee Castillo
You don't get a paycheck until you go to work and you do your job.
00:33:45 Renee Castillo
Well, a cell phone is not a right.
00:33:48 Renee Castillo
It's A privilege.
00:33:49 Renee Castillo
And so you have certain expectations as a child and as a student that we need you to do.
00:33:56 Renee Castillo
And it's the job of the parent to enforce those things.
00:34:00 Renee Castillo
And so, if they don't go to school, maybe it's they don't get to have their cell phone.
00:34:06 Renee Castillo
Yeah.
00:34:07 Renee Castillo
Or they don't get to play their video games or, because you're, I mean, you could go down a whole rabbit hole of applied behavioral analysis about this, like the function of the behavior and the consequences.
00:34:18 Renee Castillo
You know, what, right?
00:34:20 Renee Castillo
And so like here we are positively reinforcing the fact that they're not going to school.
00:34:24 Renee Castillo
Now we have to compete with that when they do go to school.
00:34:26 Renee Castillo
Like we're competing with the fact that being at home in your night
00:34:30 Renee Castillo
comfy bed in your jammies, playing your video games, or laying in bed, texting your friends late at night.
00:34:36 Renee Castillo
Those are all powerful, powerful reinforcers for kids.
00:34:39 Athena Cordero
They are, yeah.
00:34:40 Renee Castillo
So being able to compete with that to try to encourage a student to come to school is really difficult and takes everybody to be on board.
00:34:48 Renee Castillo
And being a parent is hard.
00:34:51 Renee Castillo
Yes.
00:34:53 Renee Castillo
You are not always their friends.
00:34:55 Renee Castillo
sometimes they hate you.
00:34:57 Renee Castillo
And that, what, that's kind of our job as being a parent is, making, putting those boundaries in place and holding fast to them.
00:35:05 Renee Castillo
Because we know as adults that this is in the best interest of our children.
00:35:09 Renee Castillo
At the time, the children don't know that, you know, I was the same way when I was a teenager, you know, but I had that healthy fear or respect for the authority figure, whether that be my parent, my teacher, whoever it is.
00:35:22 Renee Castillo
And I do see that.
00:35:23 Renee Castillo
missing.
00:35:24 Renee Castillo
And I don't know, I haven't gotten into the science of like what that's about, but I just know it is hard being a parent and you have to have, the willingness to
00:35:37 Renee Castillo
tough it out and to stick to it and be consistent because the worst thing we can do is not be consistent.
00:35:42 Renee Castillo
Because then this kids are smart.
00:35:45 Athena Cordero
They are.
00:35:46 Athena Cordero
And they pay such close attention, like attention that we don't realize that they're paying.
00:35:51 Renee Castillo
And they know how to manipulate us.
00:35:53 Renee Castillo
I mean, they really do.
00:35:54 Renee Castillo
It's like innate to them.
00:35:55 Renee Castillo
I don't know.
00:35:57 Renee Castillo
And they know, you know, if I wear my mom down, she'll eventually give it to me.
00:36:01 Renee Castillo
She's already kind of worn down.
00:36:03 Renee Castillo
Like she's got a lot going on.
00:36:04 Renee Castillo
She's got, you know, everything, all of her adult
00:36:07 Renee Castillo
Problems and issues and things that she has to face on the day-to-day But then also this this challenge of having to get me to school right and I'm winning right now Then so.
00:36:18 Athena Cordero
That's so funny in a not funny way, right?
00:36:21 Athena Cordero
Like it's like like ironic funny Even the conversation about the phone and I totally agree with you Those things are privileges and and that's come up with my mom too.
00:36:33 Athena Cordero
And I think What I was trying to
00:36:35 Athena Cordero
not make her understand, but show her the difference was when I was in school, the phone was not even in, it didn't exist like that.
00:36:43 Athena Cordero
You know, for a kid my age to have a phone, be like, do you have a job?
00:36:47 Athena Cordero
You know, like, what do you need a phone for?
00:36:49 Athena Cordero
So for her, it wasn't even a matter of rely, you know, parents didn't rely on it themselves, you know, at that time.
00:36:58 Athena Cordero
And now they do.
00:36:59 Athena Cordero
They also rely on the cell phone and are used to relying on it in their own
00:37:04 Athena Cordero
lives for their own things and communication.
00:37:07 Athena Cordero
So now if I take that phone from you, I'm cutting myself off from you too a little bit.
00:37:13 Athena Cordero
And they're not used to having that.
00:37:14 Athena Cordero
Whereas my mom went all day long, you know, 8, 9 hours if I had an after-school program or activity.
00:37:20 Athena Cordero
without talking to me unless it was an emergency.
00:37:23 Athena Cordero
And then she'd just call the office and say, I need to talk to my kid or go up there.
00:37:27 Athena Cordero
That does not exist anymore.
00:37:29 Athena Cordero
You know, that's, it's kind of unheard of.
00:37:31 Athena Cordero
And so I'm trying to help her to see that.
00:37:33 Athena Cordero
And she's looking at me going, well, everybody needs to get a little tougher, you know?
00:37:39 Athena Cordero
We just need to, we just need to get over it a little bit.
00:37:42 Athena Cordero
Somebody's gonna have to go first, you know, and being tough and it should be the parent, you know, she's looking at me and I agree with her, but she can't, she cannot,
00:37:52 Athena Cordero
You can't ignore the fact that the context has changed so much.
00:37:56 Athena Cordero
So I would imagine you guys probably get some looks.
00:37:59 Athena Cordero
You know, when you're trying to explain that tough love piece, there's probably some looks like, yeah, sure, you try it.
00:38:05 Athena Cordero
You know what I mean?
00:38:05 Athena Cordero
You try it and see what happens.
00:38:07 Athena Cordero
But I do appreciate that that's part of the training.
00:38:10 Athena Cordero
Because it really does come down to that.
00:38:11 Athena Cordero
You're still the parent, you're still the authority.
00:38:14 Athena Cordero
They still should look at you that way and try it first, you know, before you roll your eyes at me a little bit, kind of like that.
00:38:21 Renee Castillo
And one of my favorite parent trainings is parenting with love and logic.
00:38:26 Renee Castillo
Yeah.
00:38:26 Renee Castillo
Because I mean, it does it in such a loving, compassionate way, but it still allows you to set boundaries and not totally drain yourself as a parent emotionally doing it.
00:38:35 Renee Castillo
And it's very, it's pretty simple to interact.
00:38:38 Renee Castillo
So like I am a huge proponent for that parent training.
00:38:42 Athena Cordero
I like it.
00:38:43 Athena Cordero
And to me, you're also showing your children how to set boundaries.
00:38:49 Athena Cordero
Yes.
00:38:50 Athena Cordero
You know, you're modeling for them
00:38:51 Athena Cordero
So when they become adults, they have their own healthy boundaries and relationships or jobs or, it's how people treat them.
00:38:58 Athena Cordero
It's a skill set you want to give them.
00:39:00 Athena Cordero
You want to have that young so that they know how to do that when they are adults.
00:39:05 Athena Cordero
Because I know if I didn't do it and someone was taking advantage of my kid and I'm going, why didn't you just say no?
00:39:11 Athena Cordero
But I didn't,
00:39:12 Athena Cordero
You know, I didn't show them that.
00:39:14 Athena Cordero
That would hurt.
00:39:14 Athena Cordero
That would like hurt me to my core.
00:39:16 Athena Cordero
Sure.
00:39:17 Athena Cordero
So I appreciate that.
00:39:18 Athena Cordero
That is a great training.
00:39:19 Athena Cordero
And if there's any information about that, if anybody's listening, we could probably put that on the website with this episode to show folks how they can get a hold of a Love and Logic training.
00:39:30 Athena Cordero
Okay.
00:39:31 Athena Cordero
Okay.
00:39:32 Athena Cordero
I do have kind of a fun thing I want to do because I imagine that you do see a lot of things.
00:39:41 Athena Cordero
You guys are always working to figure out how you can help folks.
00:39:44 Athena Cordero
And sometimes it might get a little exhausting.
00:39:47 Athena Cordero
So for a second, I just want to kind of play queen of the world, okay?
00:39:51 Athena Cordero
And I want you to finish the statement, okay?
00:39:56 Athena Cordero
If education, child welfare, and courts worked seamlessly together, now finish the statement, okay?
00:40:09 Renee Castillo
we would have consistent, clear communication, know what the rights of students are within each agency, and be able to advocate them, advocate for them together for seamless transitions.
00:40:27 Athena Cordero
Could you, as you're saying that, I'm trying to imagine all the different transitions, right, and all the different things.
00:40:32 Athena Cordero
And if we could have it that way, what would you say would be,
00:40:37 Athena Cordero
even just a first small step, for districts and families to get to that point.
00:40:45 Renee Castillo
I think, especially for students in foster care, I know the child welfare system is so overwhelmed and impacted and has a very high turnover rate.
00:40:58 Renee Castillo
And that's kind of where part of the problem
00:41:00 Renee Castillo
and disconnect is because students may come in with a specific social worker and then the next day it's somebody else.
00:41:07 Renee Castillo
I'm also kind of setting up that lack of consistency in a relationship for those poor kiddos.
00:41:15 Renee Castillo
Just being able to communicate with the foster youth liaison, just if it is changing, just so we all know, just to make sure we all know that what the students' rights are.
00:41:29 Renee Castillo
I have encountered some social workers that aren't aware of the right to school of origin or having that communication.
00:41:39 Renee Castillo
I think just communication in general
00:41:42 Renee Castillo
If we could find a way to do that so much better, we would be able to knock out a lot of the issues that come into play for any of our students, whether it be parent to school or parent to school district or parent to teacher, having that communication or within our other agencies for like our foster youth and the social workers and the court system and really understanding who
00:42:09 Renee Castillo
What role do each one of us play for this student?
00:42:13 Renee Castillo
And what are our responsibilities to this student?
00:42:17 Renee Castillo
And what are the processes?
00:42:20 Renee Castillo
Because I don't know all the processes that Children and Family Services, what they have.
00:42:26 Renee Castillo
And I'll ask if I, because we have a wonderful district liaison through CFS that answers so many questions for us.
00:42:33 Renee Castillo
They are priceless, their job.
00:42:36 Athena Cordero
Shout out to them.
00:42:37 Renee Castillo
Yes, absolutely.
00:42:40 Renee Castillo
They make my job so much easier by a lot, but they're kind of that bridge to get that communication if they can.
00:42:46 Renee Castillo
Yeah.
00:42:47 Renee Castillo
But even the court system, they, the way they,
00:42:52 Renee Castillo
maybe put stuff in court.
00:42:53 Renee Castillo
I don't have a legal background, but yet I'm still required to read court documents.
00:42:58 Renee Castillo
I try to interpret them and make sure that we're putting protections in place for students or only allowing certain people access to information.
00:43:08 Renee Castillo
But every judge writes those differently.
00:43:10 Renee Castillo
And so, you know, there are so many different little pieces to it.
00:43:15 Renee Castillo
But I think ultimately, if we could find the time in our day to be sure that we're communicating with
00:43:22 Renee Castillo
even if it's the foster youth liaison at the school, and then we can disseminate that information out to the school sites and to the people that need to know.
00:43:32 Renee Castillo
We could help create more consistency for the students and make sure that they're staying in placements where they have connection.
00:43:45 Athena Cordero
I think you, and throughout our whole conversation, you've said it over and over again, and you hit it on the head, is if we look at it as what we are doing for the student, or for the family, the work we're doing for the student.
00:43:59 Athena Cordero
You've said that over and over again, Renee, and I think if we constantly keep that in the forefront of our minds, that it's not about
00:44:08 Athena Cordero
how many times you've repeated the policy or, you know, explain the legal consequences.
00:44:15 Athena Cordero
It is what are we doing for Athena, you know, for Renee, for their families?
00:44:20 Athena Cordero
I think that's probably the, like you're explaining right now, if we could just come out the gate with that mentality, it would probably make a world of difference, just in kind of being a little humble, you know, in that process.
00:44:35 Athena Cordero
But I imagine that seeing it every day,
00:44:39 Athena Cordero
all the time could keep us, not keep us, but kind of stop us from starting our day thinking that, sometimes.
00:44:45 Athena Cordero
But that's a good reminder.
00:44:47 Athena Cordero
And I appreciate you explaining it that way, even in the conversation.
00:44:50 Athena Cordero
And it's not that you're,
00:44:52 Athena Cordero
scripted and saying, you're just naturally saying for the student because that's where you see it coming from.
00:44:58 Athena Cordero
And I appreciate that.
00:44:59 Athena Cordero
I'm sure your district appreciates you for that.
00:45:02 Athena Cordero
I'm sure they could shout you out right now too for a lot of things that you've helped with.
00:45:07 Athena Cordero
I want to thank you for sitting down with me today.
00:45:10 Athena Cordero
There was a lot that I learned about CWA that I did not know.
00:45:14 Athena Cordero
And some things that I would like to share with others, my own personal life, on how they can look at it.
00:45:19 Athena Cordero
And I'm sure that there's some families who would give you a big hug right now, if they could.
00:45:25 Athena Cordero
And thank you as well.
00:45:27 Athena Cordero
Thank you.
00:45:27 Athena Cordero
No problem.
00:45:28 Athena Cordero
You should come back, maybe bring somebody else from the district next time, see if we could sit down and talk to them too.
00:45:33 Renee Castillo
Anytime, you let me know.
00:45:35 Outro/Ad
Before we wrap up, we wanna remind you that if you or someone you know is facing a crisis, help is available.
00:45:43 Outro/Ad
You are not alone.
00:45:46 Outro/Ad
If it's an emergency, please call 911.
00:45:49 Outro/Ad
For immediate support, you can reach out to the Crisis and Suicide Hotline by dialing 988.
00:45:56 Outro/Ad
Remember, taking the first step to ask for help is a sign of strength.
00:46:02 Outro/Ad
Stay safe, take care of yourself, and take care of each other.
00:46:06 Outro/Ad
Until next time, be well.
00:46:09 Outro/Ad
In this episode of Fostering Futures, Athena continues the foster series with Mark Toddhunter, behavioral health counselor supervisor at Desert Mountain Children's Center.
00:46:19 Outro/Ad
Together, they dive into the mental health realities of foster youth, exploring trauma, grief, identity, emotional regulation, and the power of stable, caring relationships.
00:46:30 Outro/Ad
A powerful conversation on healing, attachment, and how one consistent adult can change a child's future.
00:46:37 Outro/Ad
Don't miss this impactful episode.
00:46:39 Outro/Ad
See you next time!
