Own Your Niche - Dennis Meador

In this episode The Change Agent Podcast, Eric and Dennis examine how professionals differentiate themselves in crowded, price-driven markets and why authority, trust, and precision positioning matter more than raw visibility.

Dennis “DM” Meador has spent more than two decades working alongside attorneys and professional service firms, observing how digital search and market saturation have reshaped how expertise is perceived and purchased. His work now focuses on helping legal professionals move away from commoditized competition and toward authority-driven positioning through targeted podcasting and content ecosystems designed to attract the right clients rather than the most attention.

The conversation explores the strategic use of podcasting not as a vanity metric exercise but as a trust-building mechanism. Dennis explains why highly specific content aimed at narrowly defined audiences consistently outperforms broad messaging, and why a smaller, highly qualified audience often produces better business outcomes than mass exposure without conversion.

This discussion also addresses how trust is built through audio, why intimacy and consistency matter in long-form conversations, and how answering real client questions in practical terms creates credibility before the first direct interaction ever occurs. The episode highlights how thoughtful content strategy can move relationships from discovery to confidence before a single sales conversation begins.

This is a conversation about influence built on clarity, the economics of trust, and what it takes to stand out when expertise alone is no longer enough.

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Dennis Meador and LPN Website

Dennis Meador on LinkedIn

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome back to the show, everyone. This is Eric, your host, and today's guest is Dennis DM Metter, helping lawyers discover clients, build influence, and grow practices that actually last. Welcome DM to the show. Appreciate having you.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Thank you very much for having me. I, you know, you've been grinding all day. I've been grinding. So here we are with hours of conversations underneath our belt, but we are ready to wow more people, so let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Yeah. Uh to start off with, what a niche uh about what you do. And I I know that we've talked a little bit before the podcast started, but um tell me a little bit about what you do. Tell the audience a little bit about what you do and let them get that feeling for what that niche is, because when I was looking at it, it's impressive.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

So, yeah, what we do is we call it turnkey podcasting. We do it for the legal industry. So we have two sets of people that we work with primarily. One is people who support the legal industry. So we have a number of shows that are for the lawyer life, is what we say at legal life, lawyer life. Um, anywhere from personal finances, dressing, mental health, you know, all that kind of stuff, life as a lawyer. The majority of our clients are law firms and attorneys with personal brands or wanting to, you know, cultivate their own business. That is probably 90% of our client base. Um, I've worked personally with attorneys for about 22 years. Most people, you know, especially attorneys, they at that time offer their condolences. And um, but I've enjoyed working with them. They're people who tend to be more rooted in logic. They tend to be more um open to discussing. They don't see a counterpoint as the beginning of an argument as much as it's just the desire to find a place to meet in the middle. So we we have those two people. We do what we call turnkey podcasting. So when we bring on a client, we find out what their client, what we call ideal client profile in the marketing world, the it's the ICP. I always remind people it's not insane clown posse. It's ideal client profile. And essentially what that means is who is your client? Who is the person that your your micro niche or whatever? And here's a good illustration that I like to use is let's say you're a family attorney. Now, being a family attorney, you can do custody, you can do divorce. There's really a lot of stuff that kind of falls under family, but mostly when you hear family, it's divorce and custody issues. But divorce is a pretty broad range as well. Some people, they don't have very many assets, they don't have much going on there, and they just want to be rid of each other. And that's probably a$500,$1,000 thing. Now, some attorneys love that. Churn and burn, get them in, get them out, one-day paper, no fighting, yeah. But some attorneys are like, no, if I'm doing a divorce, I want$5 to$7K in the bank before I even file a paper, and then it's going to be$450 an hour from there. I'm probably going to make$20,000,000,$25,000. Or depending on the assets and the issues and the arguments and how far it goes, it could go up from there. So what we do is we're like, okay, who are you wanting to work with? Well, I work a lot with uh women who are in you know high asset marriages, who her and her husband are fighting over custody because he's the primary breadwinner. And but they want custody, they, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's who they work with. So what we do then, we find out their client profile, their jurisdictional profile, and then what we call their brand profile, who they are, and we build a show. We then, each show is about 17 to 21 minutes, seven to ten questions, and it deals with a very specific issue. So it might be, you know, this episode is I haven't had a job for 20 years. My husband makes seven figures. How do I prove that I can take care of my children? And the attorney just answers seven, eight, nine questions. Now imagine yourself in that situation. You're scared, you're worried, you're frustrated, and then an attorney gets on that's been doing it 20 years, that works with people just like you and answers your exact question. Yeah. That's what we're trying to cultivate. We then take that podcast because a podcast is just like a piece of paper. It sits on the ground unless somebody picks it up and watches it or listens to it. So we take, we edit it, we make it look good, we do everything you're supposed to do on all that end. And I've got a great team that does that. Then we create shorts and reels, we create audiograms. One 30-minute session creates about 30 pieces of content. We then take that content, we distribute it for them over 10 outlets every day. So in 30 minutes, they're getting 30 days of one post a day on 10 different outlets plus two to three pages of content. We do one episode, two episodes, or four episodes a month. We're also getting ready to add to our ecosystem because I don't see this as a marketing program. I see this as an ecosystem with podcasting at the center. And with that, we need to always expand the ecosystem. So come January, we have two new streaming networks that we're launching, one called LPN Life, so the legal life, and that's all our shows for attorneys. And then LPN answers, answers from attorneys to people. That's all of that. So you can download it on Roku, you know, Amazon, all that stuff that you download, just like a Netflix sort of app. And then we're also getting ready to do podcast matching for shows and guests in the legal industry to match them up. A very white club, sort of like I want this very specific, you know, knowledge set. We go and look and go, okay, here's three people that fit. You can interview them, or you can just pick one, boom. So what we're what we're doing is just creating something that our clients have very little time, but a lot of results come out of it. We're trying to maximize the time of our clients because let's be honest, professionals aren't sitting around going, man, I wish I could just shoot videos all day. You know, right? They they they don't have time for that. They want to be in front of clients, they want to be handling what they're supposed to be handling. And so we come in, we're like, we need a little bit of your time. You want one show a month, we need 30 minutes. You want two, we need an hour. You want one every week, we need two hours. Not bad, because if you do two hours a month with us, we're posting three times a day on all the outlets. We're putting up an episode every week, we're doing two to three pages of content every week. You know, we're putting you on the network. I mean, there's just there's so much to it. So we're just spidering out with that. And I mean, we've enjoyed it. Like it's been one of those things that we've we've seen growth with our client base, our team. I'm 19 months into this from our official launch date of May 1st of 23. We're about 200 clients, we're about 60 people on the team.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

You were you ready for that? Yes. I mean, I guess in terms of ready, like everybody wants that. And in terms of you want to be successful, but like speed of success can come quick, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Uh well, my background, like I have three companies before this that I took from less than a mil to four or five million in a year to three years. So I'm used to this sort of trajectory. What's different this time is because I failed because of the trajectory growth before. And it wasn't always failure as much as I just made decisions that long term didn't yield the results I thought they should have. But because of the lessons I've learned, for example, I could probably be at double to triple the clients. I have two salesmen. That's it. We've closed in the month of December, which traditionally in marketing is your lowest month of the year, is our second best month. We're already at 23 clients added just this month. So it's just like I already knew, I knew it was coming. I spend more time holding back growth than I do pushing it. Just today I had my sales guys. I was like, guys, instead of meeting, let's go ahead. I want you to kind of give me a breakdown of the year, what you saw, what you experienced, blah, blah, blah, what your percentages were, what you're looking forward to, what you're dreading next year, what you wish I would have done differently. Just be brutally honest. And I got one back, and this is a guy that actually recruited me into mark into legal marketing 22 years ago. And he's he's one of my sales guys. And one of the things he said is I've noticed as the year has progressed, I went from explaining the product to and why they should do it to showing them what they want to do already and just helping them understanding and signing them up. And I really like that. Well, what salesman doesn't like that, right? I wish I could do rebuttal more and get more people to tell me no.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Yeah, right. Yeah, I was just talking to someone earlier uh on the different podcast about the word no. And it was uh in terms of uh your your previous uh commitments, you said you took companies into the multimillion dollar ranges. Um that kind of lines up with a question I had in my head, which was what was something that you were trying to solve before you got with LPN?

SPEAKER_00 9:29

I I've always been trying to solve the problem of the commoditization of professionals throughout my career because that's what I've seen. As children, doctors, lawyers, accountants, we there was a reverence for them in society. And once Google kind of hit, and we're just like, oh, there's 400 attorneys in my area, like I can just pick one, you know? Like that cachet has slowly just descended and heard attorneys, like, I can't tell you how many conversations I've had in the last five years because I know I've talked to enough attorneys, I can usually guess what they're making based on their market and case type. And I started noticing five years ago I was I was I was consistently higher than I had been. So I would say something like, and and then I started kind of doing it on purpose because I'd be like, okay, so you are a divorce lawyer in Atlanta, and you focus on like, you know, with custody and kind of ugly. So um you know, you're probably doing what, like 475, 525 an hour somewhere around? And almost to a T, this is the response I get when I ask that question. And I wish I used to. Any more though, with how competitive it is and all the younger guys coming in and setting up their practices, I'm at 350. I used to be at 475. That is a bad indicator of your industry.

unknown 10:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

And so what I've tried to do is say, okay, you're only going to make more money by bringing people to you differently than you've been doing it. Because if you're depending on the concept of divorce lawyer Atlanta, guess what happens when I type that in? 25 results, 25 different names, or 20 different names with five of them of directories where I click through and get a couple hundred names on each directory. So now I just call and I just when everything else is equal, the only differentiating factor is price. And that's what's happened to a lot of professionals. And so what you have to do is you have to change the way people come to you and approach you. That's what I the term I use is authoritative positioning. You have to change the approach so that instead of calling you and saying, How much is your rate? The last guy was 4K for a for a retainer, but if you can do 3,500 at 300 an hour, I'll hire you. That's the kind of conversations a lot of attorneys have. But if they have gone and they typed in a very specific question and then they watched a podcast, they saw a couple short videos, they went to your website, they see you've got pages dedicated to people just like them. Now you've elevated your authority to their specific problem. And I don't just want a divorce attorney, I want the divorce attorney that helps guys with beards and funky glasses get things the way they want them to be. Right?

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Everybody's got that unique experience, right? They've they, you know, not to cut you off and I apologize. No, no, go ahead. They when that when I try to put myself in their shoes of you know, I need something, I'm a very specific individual. I have a very specific, in my opinion, I have everybody's got their opinion that they are to the world around them, right? And then they find through this venue that there's a unique solution to me. And I believe that, hey, if unique matches unique, I'm gonna win this thing. Um that's the psychology, I believe, behind it. Am I right?

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I tell that to everybody. I'm like, because it's like my salespeople will be like, hey, I got a really unique situation with this attorney. And I'll be like, every attorney is unique, every attorney is special, every attorney has a problem that we've never had before. Tell it to me. Oh, yeah, let me answer you like I did the 370 other times I've answered this in the last three months. You know, it's like we I we feel like, and it's okay, but we feel like, and the other thing is we are our whole life is tailored to our wants and needs now. Our algorithms are only showing us what we pretty much like. Yeah. You know, when we go to a restaurant, we can say, you know, like I think twice a year I go to a restaurant that says no changes or substitutions. If I go into like across the street, there's a Mexican place here on the island, um, and it's a it's a family from Arizona that owns it. And like I go in there and I'm just like, okay, I want this, but I want this meat in it that doesn't go in it, and I want these toppings from this one that doesn't go in it, and they just call it a DM order there. It's like, oh, I got a DM order. And then the cook is like, what are we doing this time? But we're all used to that. And then lawyers they try to be like, hello, I graduated from law school 22 years ago. I want to make mock trial in law school. I can help you. And people are like, okay, well, let me talk to the next one. Hello. Yeah, let me get out of here with that 80s commercial set. Seven years ago, you know, it's just the same thing over and over to most people. So that's why this approach, we've seen so much success with it, it's not about being a great podcaster. It's not about getting numbers on your podcast. I tell my clients, you're better off with 50 views where 10 people call you and seven of them hire you, than five million views where no one does. If you do the math, it's like a 20x ROI difference.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yep. And in fact, uh speaking about that, that's a good segue, and I'm glad you brought that up. Uh, because you talk a lot about that in some of your uh how ROI is beyond the downloads, right? And so in your experience, uh trying to get trust and this could be podcast specific, it could be anything, really a conversation just in general. How do you get trust to actually go through uh and get delivered through audio? Uh, because it's a very intimate platform we're on. We put our headphones in, we're talking individually to individuals, we're in the car, we're walking with them as they go to work or wherever they might be going. And it's that moment, like you said, unless they pick it up, it's stale, right? It's just a thing on the ground. But if they pick it up and they start listening, uh, that's the moment that we get to build trust through audio. And uh, how in your experience, uh, do we get that?

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Um well, again, through hyper-specific content, answering very specific questions for a very specific situation. But also you think about just podcast. Let's just talk about podcasting. What other way do you know where you can get a potential client to sit there and listen to you talk for 20 minutes?

unknown 16:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

What do you got? What is it? What is it? But it's how much? Okay, five. Yet with a podcast, they'll put it in their ears, they'll go for a walk or a jog, they'll do housework. It's, you know, and that's the other thing. Audio for podcasting, it's the lowest friction form of media that exists. Because you think exactly what you want, you listen, so that's where the trust is. The trust is in the fact that it's right there, accessible, answering very specific questions that you need. And the trust is built by the attorney saying, Well, in the state of blah, blah, blah, this is how it's handled. You know, I had a client, I've had a few clients, but one in particular. And obviously, I won't say name and the exact situation for privacy issues, but they went through this, this, and this, and how we handled it was this and this and this, and the result was this. And the person's like, Well, that's the result I want, and that's almost exact the situation I have. And then they listen to two or three podcasts and they hear two or three different stories like that, but not the same. Now they're trusting, they're listening, they're learning. And what I tell people is with this sort of marketing um way of doing things, the no and the like is established through the content. And the con and then the contact of the business is confirming trust. They literally just want to see, are you the same person that I just listened to for you know an hour total in three different podcasts that I listen to? And so, you know, I tell an attorney, if you're kind of gruff, be kind of gruff in your podcast. Don't put on like this sort of like soft, gentle guy who's like, oh yeah, oh, definitely we can help you with that. And then they come in the office and you're like, what do you want?

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Yeah, who I sounded for.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Five grand, you got it or not. Like, be be real, be authentic, because that's the only way at that point that you can lose trust is to not be who they follow who they listened to already or watched already. Oh, and I think that I I just to tag on to the authenticity thing with AI, that is going to be the secret sauce. Is just we're going to see a generation of business owners that are going to pull away the facade of success and um and specifically in the fake it till you make it, they're going to pull away the facade of showiness, of look at what I've accomplished. They're going to pull, but they're also going to pull away the facade of, oh, I got to hide my success. Because a lot of people that have had success, they kind of hide it. But this founder-led marketing and this personal branding that's really become a thing now, it's pulled back that and it said, hey, I'm just a person like you. I mess up, I fall, I get back up, I keep going. You know, you were talking about leadership. I've been a leader since I was, well, I'm the oldest of six kids. So really my whole life. But I had my first business when I was 14, my first business that took off in my early 20s. I was a pastor, a youth pastor at 16, and a pastor, missionary, evangelist, blah, blah, blah, up until 36. I've always been in positions of leadership. But what I've learned about it is if you just be yourself at all times, then you don't have to, like, there will be people that will reject you for being yourself, and there will be people that will reject you for being fake. You're gonna be rejected either way. You might as well stay in who you are. Because no matter how good you are, how talented, how caring, there will always be critics. There will always be somebody who comes up behind you and is just like, ah, you know, why didn't you do it? And you just have to be like, well, and the other thing I've learned is everyone criticizes until the wind comes in, and then all of a sudden they knew you were a genius the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah, there's two two things that uh crossed my mind as you're talking. One of those is my uh enjoyment of stoicism, uh, and the point that you were Yeah, yeah. Uh is I don't lie because I don't have to remember anything. I think that was a quote by Abraham Lincoln. Uh keeps you safe, something like that. Um then I lost my other thought, other thought. So uh sorry we'll just keep no no, it's it's my fault. It's it's uh no worries.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

But um Do you want to swing over to Stoicism real quick?

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

So, Ryan Holiday, I'm sure you're familiar with him. Okay. Um, and you might might or might not be a big fan, probably depends on how deep you are into stoicism. If you're like, you know, a Sunday church stoic like I am, then you probably like him. If you're like a Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night Bible study visitation kind of uh stoic, you probably are not too big on him. And we'll leave it at that. But I, as I said, I was in church for about 20 years in leadership positions the whole time. And around 36, I stepped away, kind of stepped out of the church life, a couple of different reasons. Won't really get into that. But a few years after I stepped out of church, my sister, who is I'm the oldest of six kids, but it's his, hers, and theirs. So this is my full-blood sister, who I've been super close to my whole life. Her husband died in a work accident. She had a three year old and a five year old, and she was pregnant. So I think it was that maybe it was a five and a seven year old. At the same time, my marriage was on its last legs. I got married when I was 19, so I've been 21 years, and my kids were getting ready to graduate high school, and we both just knew we were. Going to do the next shift together. Just hadn't been a good thing for a while. I had nothing. Like before, I could be like, well, just you know, there's a plan and don't worry about it. But honestly, at that moment, I myself couldn't say things like that to my sister. And I just I remember just kind of sitting there and I I've I've kind of followed Tim Ferris for years. Four-hour work week. That's what kind of got me into my lifestyle. I travel a lot and I run my business from an island, blah, blah, blah. So he had mentioned Ryan Holiday, and I read the book The Obstacle is the Way. And that book was the book that got me through that time in life because I learned to embrace and go through obstacles instead of trying to find a way around them or to see them as something that I could just never overcome. And there's a lot more lessons in that book. But stoicism for me has been a loose philosophy that has helped me in times of confusion, frustration, things like that. I'm just not so stoic I need to sleep out on the rock out on the rock and you know uh three times a year to prove that I can do it. So that's just not my vibe.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Yeah, yeah. For me, uh, you know, I found it I I think in like many people, I looked for it in times when I needed it, right? I needed answers that I couldn't find, you know, I didn't have answers to think that I was going through. I had a um uh and it's uh amazing to me uh that I can get wisdom uh and and direction through someone else, right? So it's um one of those things I just think we ought to keep close. I think everybody who's listening to podcasts or just in general going about their life should be listening uh to some form of stoicism. Um hopefully it works out for them as well as it's worked for us.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Absolutely. Well, and I mean here's the thing. I always I always I always lead with I would say, are you familiar with CBT? And they're like, what? I'm like cognitive behavioral therapy, it's the most accepted form of therapy that we have. And they're like, Oh, I think I've heard of that, yeah. And I'm like, that's what stoicism or stoicism is or CBT is based on stoic principles and philosophies. And then I talk about it and they seem to be so they're not like, oh, so you're like reading Plato? You know what I mean? Like in their mind. So when I say it's CBT, but it's like the the root thing of it from a from like back in like philosophical times, then people for me seem to be a lot more like, oh, well, can you send me something on that? You know, unfortunately, uh stoicism has become very much a bro vibe thing, you know, where you got a lot of tech bros and crypto bros, and they're just like you know, big jerks, but they're like, I'm a stoic, and you're just like, I mean, okay, like I'm not gonna say, but you're not you're not representing the brand very well, in my opinion, that type of person.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah, yeah, that's true. And I think that these things really go a long way to really like kind of help us lead first, uh, which is us, uh help us lead ourselves first.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

There's great Buddhist principles. The the year before I really got into stoicism, I was studying Buddhism. And some of those principles, there's some really great, and that's the thing. First of all, as you study world religions, and I did for many years, but I studied them through the filter of I'm right, they're wrong, let me pick them apart. So then once I kind of left church, I would take a year and I did like Islam, I did um Buddhism, and then uh then I did Stoicism. And so I I feel like in all these different religions and things, we can, you know, there's like core tenets and principles that go across, but when you can find one that seems to philosophically top to bottom not have the idiosyncrasies and hypocrisies that tend to be in religions, because religions are to gain followers and to gain prestige mostly. Whereas, in my opinion, and my understanding, philosophies are more empowering others to have a good mindset and way of thinking. When I give you religion, I'm giving you a set of rules and formats that you need to follow so that you have to follow me. When I give you a philosophy, I'm giving you a mind frame so that you can lead yourself. Yeah, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Well, yeah, that's a great clip. Right there. Uh in the terms of using uh philosophy or uh past histories, mistakes, things like that, you know, how do those things have they influenced your success today with what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 26:42

They're the core of who I am. I'm sorry. Yeah, I mean keep the jets cool. Yeah, for the most part, but you know, I have, you know, I was like from eight to thirteen, my mom like dated like uh crack dealers, heroin dealers, gangster disciple leaders out of Chicago. Our house was literally like drive-by shootings, party every night, things like that. So I always tell people like I'm natural-born, trauma-built, but like all of my life, if you look at it, it's like I I have I'm a kind of a tattoo guy. Most people would obviously assume that looking at me.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

I've got mine.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

But on here, I have embrace your journey. And so, and this this is a lot of thorns and roses and all of that, you know, sort of thing. And for me, I always remind myself, in order to be here, I had to be there. Yep. And that's it. Like, whether it's hard, whether because, dude, I've been in like not intensive, but I've been serious at in therapy for like 10, 12 years now. I had a nervous breakdown at 36. I believe that you must monetize every moment. Again, 16 years old, I was a youth pastor. 18 years old, I was out on my own. 19 years old, I was married. In my early 20s, I started a business. I always had at least one or two businesses, plus a ministry, full-time, all three. Worked 18 to 20 hours a day, seven days a week, nonstop. And then at 36, my body and my nervous system went nope. I spent a year and a half in bed. And that changed a lot for me. But for me, it's like I embrace the hard times in my life because I wouldn't be able to spider hyper-aware a whole company in my head and know my next seven years of plans with hyper contingencies and branches off. And if this happens, I do this, and if that, like literally, I can do that. I could sit there and be like, ask me a question about this. What would I do? And I could just sometimes me and my wife, and it doesn't have to do with this business, but like my wife likes to play this game, or she'll be like, okay, what if you needed to make$10,000 in 30 days? How would you do it? And I'm like, okay, where am I? I'm here, okay. And what's my seed money? Do I have any seed money? Yeah, you have this much money. You have to turn a thousand into 10,000. So I'd like to do these mental exercises. And I'd be like, so well, what if that didn't work? Oh, I'll just do this. Well, what about and she's just like, Do you have a do you have plans for everything? I'm like, I guess. But we have to do that, you know, because when you have trauma, you're always looking and saying, okay, like if that window has a bullet come through it, I got to go out that door. But if I know out that door is where they are, then I gotta go out that door. But if they're at both of those doors and that window's being shot, then I gotta jump out that window and hop over that fence. And worst case, I can get up in the attic and pull it shut, hopefully, in time where they don't hear it. And I think we have a thing up there that can lock it, and they'll just assume it's locked and they can't get to it. And like literally at nine years old, those were the thoughts I had. So how do you think I'm gonna think at 48?

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Yeah. Yeah, you're already trained.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, and people are like, why don't you? And I'm just like, listen, if you were constantly thinking about five to seven things at all times, wouldn't you like to just think about one for a couple of hours here and there? And there's like, oh, you know, or like you talked about the hyper awareness. We travel a lot, and like my wife's like, oh, we gotta watch for this and watch for that. And I'm just like, I've never been pickpocketed. I've traveled all over the world. I've never why? Because people notice the people that notice. Yeah. Yep. You know, they're not gonna go, they're they're not likely to go after me because they see I'm likely to know they're trying to go after me. If I see somebody that's shifty kind of making it my way, and I shift back and I move my wife behind me, and I cover this, and I take my shoulder bag and put it behind me, and I look them in the eyes, they're not gonna come pick my pocket.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

But to the person who's absolutely true, you know, holding on to the train, you know, thing or whatever. So yeah, I certainly understand that. Um, let's wrap it up, Eric, because I, like I said, do have a meeting in a little bit. I I've really enjoyed our conversation. Hopefully, we can maybe have another one someday soon.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Yeah, absolutely. Damn, I you know, catching up with you quickly and then uh being able to develop something where we can get online and do this has been enjoyable. Uh applaud you for all that you've accomplished and all that you guys are doing. Uh certainly hope to get more conversations with you so we can learn more.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

All right, my man.