Lady of Death

Behind mortuary doors: What really happens?

• Robyn O'Connell • Season 1 • Episode 2

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Death may be universal, but what happens afterward remains shrouded in mystery for most of us. Terry Clifton, with his 38 years in the funeral industry, provides a rare glimpse behind the curtain in this fascinating conversation about the misunderstood art of embalming.

"I work with a scalpel, not a wand," Terry explains, dispelling the notion that embalmers perform magical transformations. Instead, he walks us through the science and compassion that guide his work. We also explore the evolution of the funeral industry from a secretive, male-dominated field to one increasingly welcoming women in all roles.

Whether you're curious about what happens after death or seeking to understand the funeral process before you need it, this conversation offers valuable insights from someone who's dedicated his life to caring for the dead and comforting the living.

Contact Terry on 1300 309 850
https://prestigefunerals.com.au/

https://www.facebook.com/funerals64

Have questions about death, dying or the funeral industry? Email ask@ladyofdeath.com.au to have them answered in a future episode.

Robyn

Hi I'm Robyn O'Connell and I'm the Lady of Death. In this series of podcasts, we're going to be talking to people that work in and around the area of death, from celebrants to those who work in a mortuary, to all sorts of other peoples involved in death and dying. It's really weird, isn't it, that we don't talk about death. We don't talk about all those things. So hopefully, over this period of time, you might learn something, but you might also have questions that you'd like to ask. So at the end, I'm going to give you an email address to send your questions to, and then, after we've done our first series of 10, we'll look at the questions and answers that come from that and then work out where we go from there.

Meet Terry: 38 Years in Funeral Service

Robyn

I want to know from you what you want to know about the industry that seems to be all cloak and daggers. It's not really. There's some good people in it. Yes, there's some shonky too, but, as you'll discover, the people that I talk to absolutely love it.

Robyn

My guest today is Terry Clifton, owner of Prestige Funerals, who is also an embalmer. So welcome, Terry.

Terry

Thanks

Robyn

Tell us a little bit about you. Who do you live with? What's your interests?

Terry

I'm a funeral director with just over 38 years experience. I'm married for the second time. I have two children from my first marriage and two stepchildren from my second marriage, live out in Broadmeadows and my interests, aside from funeral service, is Freemasonry, fishing and camping.

Robyn

My idea of camping sleeping under the stars is the five on the hotel.

Terry

The five on the hotel, yeah. You should have joined the Air Force.

Robyn

Terry is an embalmer, and it's an area that a lot of people are quite fascinated with, but don't know a lot about. So how often is embalming used these days?

Terry

It depends on the funeral home. For myself, pretty much every viewing that I deal with, I will make an assessment and decide whether I need to do any preparation. As far as embalming is concerned in a lot of cases it's just what we would call a cosmetic embalm, so it's just basically to clear any discolouration in the face, the hands or the extremities that the family will see. For a full embalm that doesn't happen as often, but it can happen. Obviously, for placement into mausoleum, a lot of the mausoleums require a full embalm with a certificate, or for repatriation work, so either going interstate via airlines or overseas repatriation, the requirement is that a full embalm takes place.

Robyn

So explain to us what embalming actually entails.

Terry

Okay, so what we're doing? We're doing a couple of things. We're preserving the body so that the body lasts, so that family can view over an extended period if required, or if there's a delay from the time of death to the time of funeral, so that the person can be viewed as part of that process of closure. It's there for purification, to make the body safe to the touch of the family and all the funeral staff, and it's just basically to try and make the viewing experience as positive as we possibly can.

Robyn

Right, because not everybody dies looking great, do they.

Terry

No, definitely not. Now, if you think about you know somebody possibly in an ICU environment tubes and all sorts of things, you know to help them breathe and stuff you know, and when they pass away, that's what you see. By the time the funeral home or the embalmer has done what they need to do as far as carried out their mortuary procedures, the person should look like they're sleeping.

Robyn

Right, are there cases where you just can't do anything?

Terry

Yep, there are cases. I try to provide the family that option, to have that closure in every case that I deal with, with the exception of a body that may be badly decomposed or if there's been some major trauma, ie a motor vehicle accident or something like that, if I'm given time I can pretty much make the body viewable if I've got time. But it's quite an extensive process.

Robyn

So when you say time, what sort of time you know for somebody who needs a lot of work?

Terry

So probably the longest time that I've spent preparing a body for viewing is about 36 hours.

Robyn

Wow

Terry

And that was spread over a four-day period.

Robyn

Wow

Reconstructive Work and Difficult Cases

Terry

So this was a guy that was involved in an accident with a train, and just putting him back together and preparing the body is what took the time. Basically, the reconstruction side of it was what took the time. The actual embalming itself wasn't too difficult Basically embalmed each part of the body separately and then putting him back together to make him viewable.

Robyn

So what does? I'll come back to this case in a minute. But what does actually embalming mean? What actually is it?

Terry

Okay. So modern embalming is replacing the blood and body fluids with a preserving agent, which in most cases is formaldehyde-based. Okay, so it preserves and purifies the body at the same time. So it's usually done arterially. So raise an artery in the body, inject the fluid by means of a mechanical pump to build up the pressure. That and it can mimic the heart. Basically, so it's pushing the fluid through, pushing through the circuitry system, and then you raise a corresponding vein to drain the blood out of the body. So that's the first part of the process, the arterial side of it. And then the second process is what we call cavity embalming, and that's where we make a small incision near the umbilicus and use a hydroaspirator or a trocar.

Robyn

What's that?

Terry

It's similar to go to the dentist and they put the vacuum in your mouth to take away all the fluid. Well, it's the same type of thing. It's a vacuum. Okay, so it removes all of the stomach content, bowel, bladder fluid from the lungs and all those sorts of things are removed, and then we replace them with a preserving agent as well.

Robyn

Okay, so it's quite a complex. So you would know the anatomy of

Terry

Most definitely, yeah. If you saw the course syllabus, you would think that we were studying to be surgeons.

Robyn

Right right,

Terry

it's quite extensive.

Robyn

In a way you are, aren't you

Terry

yeah,

Robyn

So you are using every part of the body to make something look better than than what it was. So, going back to that, that um, the guy that you were talking about, where, where you were restoring him, how, like, how much can be done, like if, if you've got, if you've got, you know, damage on your face, can you make it like look normal again, or you know, you've got to show this.

Terry

As normal as possible, and there's a number of factors. Number one is the actual case that you're working with, t ime, as I said previously, time is a factor. The skill of the embalmer, yeah Like there are some embalmers that are great embalmers, but when it comes to the reconstruction side they're not so hot. I consider myself fairly good in the reconstructive side.

Robyn

Yeah

Terry

So it's and it depends, yeah, like there's some finite stitching and things that need to take place. In this particular case, the fellow was actually a Muslim man by faith and he was being repatriated overseas. Family didn't believe that they would be able to carry out their traditional washing and preparation of the deceased, so they opted to do that. When they got the body back home to Iraq, before the deceased left my care, I invited the imam from his temple or his mosque in to have a look at him and he was just amazed at how much work I'd done, because he had seen the deceased with the family when they tried to do identification at the coroner's. So he was just amazed at what was able to be done and I actually received a phone call from one of his cousins from Iraq two days after the deceased arrived just to thank me for allowing the family to be able to carry out their traditional customs.

Robyn

So they would still be able to do things like wash the body they could.

Terry

Wash the body they could view and do all the normal preparation that they would normally do. But there was a lot of work involved. I suffered for a couple of days after I finished the work. My fingers were just really achy because of all the stitching that I had to do. My lower back was sort of, I had a couple of visits for some remedial massage just to sort of relieve the issues that I had by all that continual standing and bending over the body for that extended period of time.

Terry

But it's probably one of the jobs that's given me the most satisfaction in the time that I have been an embalmer involved in the funeral industry. But at the end of the day, that's what we try and do or what I try and do, sure most of my colleagues are the same. I s that we're trying to make that viewing experience as positive as we can for the families that we're dealing with, to give them that opportunity to say their goodbyes and provide that start, that grief process, provide a little bit of closure. Yeah, particularly in an accident scenario where families haven't had a chance to say goodbye, they haven't prepared for death. And and it's just a case of the person goes off to work or something like that and death happens

Robyn

... never comes back

Terry

and never comes back and they don't have that opportunity to prepare for the death as though like somebody with a terminal illness. So it's good to be able to give families that opportunity to say that goodbye and help them with the grieving process and to move forward at an appropriate time for them.

Robyn

Right, so what is your view on viewings Like, how important do you think viewings can be?

Terry

It's up to the individual family. A nd I also arrange funerals, so I get to talk to families and I probably give them a bit more of a perspective on what's probably right for them. And it depends also, like I was just mentioning, sort of the circumstances of the death as well as to whether the viewing is going to be positive. And to me that's the important thing is the viewing going to be positive for the family?

Robyn

Yeah

Terry

You know, as part of that grief process and I think that's the important thing, that, because I've worked in all aspects of the industry as far as arranging, conducting, embalming, you know, and just doing transfers and things with families and just transferring the loved one into our care, you see the highs and lows of emotion in that aspect. And if the family need that viewing to say their goodbyes or provide a bit of closure, yeah look, I've had particularly mothers that want to talk to their sons, you know, their young sons that have done something stupid and it's cost them their life, you know.

Terry

Yes, yeah, I've said to them. I said tell him exactly how you feel.

Terry

Go in, spend some time, get it out of your system and tell him how you actually feel. Yeah, and I've heard some amazing language come out of the viewing room. Yeah, but they've walked out of the viewing room and there's two words they say to you it makes it all worthwhile, "thank you, thank you,

Robyn

yeah absolutely And it's the same after a funeral service. Those two words, 'thank you', make it all worthwhile, it's all we need isn't it. Like you know, people kind of go as a funeral celebrant. How do you keep you know working in that thing? And those two words are so powerful.

Terry

Most definitely

Becoming an Embalmer: Training & Experience

Robyn

That you know that you've made a difference in someone's life and you know, when I was training funeral celebrants, one of the tasks that I set them was to write what they wanted on their epitaph. So what did they want on their gravestone? Not that many of them have gravestones these days, but you know what would they have on it, and mine was always going to be 'She made a difference' because to me, that's what we can do. We can make a difference to how somebody sets out on their grief journey by doing what we do well.

Terry

most

Robyn

I think a lot of the time, you know, this whole area is a bit shrouded?

Terry

Shrouded in secrecy

Robyn

and it's kind of like... but tell us how you became

Terry

I'd been working in the funeral industry for about 12 months or so and I was curious as to what went on behind the closed doors.

Robyn

Right

Terry

So the embalmer, I sort of had a bit of a chat with him one day and he said well, we'll organise for you to come and spend a couple of months working in the mortuary environment to see if it's what you want to do, because the course is quite expensive. So they didn't want to make that investment if I wasn't cut out to do the job

Robyn

Right

Terry

So I spent a couple of months there.

Robyn

So just let me ask is that a course that the company pays for, or do you have to pay for it?

Terry

The company that I was working for at the time. They financed the course and then it was just basically sort of a payback in time back to the company after the course was completed.

Robyn

Right so just to stay?

Terry

No financial exchange. It was just an agreement to maintain employment with that company for a period of time after the qualification was completed. So I worked in the mortuary for that three-month period and said to the embalmer" I reckon I could do this. He goes yeah, no worries. He said I think you're capable and have the right sort of temperament for the job.

Robyn

And that's a big thing, isn't it? In that sort of thing, one you have to be patient for starters

Terry

Most definitely yep, yep.

Robyn

But you also have to be a person who can not carry that home with you every day.

Terry

Yeah, you've got to walk out of the mortuary and leave it all behind. You know, I'm probably lucky now because my wife works in the funeral industry as well. Yeah, so I can debrief with her if I need to, whereas back then it was talking to my colleagues or finding solace at the bottom of a bottle.

Robyn

Right, a very common thing.

Terry

A very common thing.

Robyn

In the funeral industry, isn't it It's a sad thing to say, but it's still as common now as when I started 22 years ago. Are you the same?

Terry

I'm not sure if it's still the same, because I don't work in the big funeral companies anymore. I don't see lots of guys and people in the industry. It's pretty much me, you know. I have a business meeting and I'll stand in the bathroom and look in the mirror and we'll have our management meeting and away we go. So it's pretty much me. But I've found the fact that I can debrief with my wife helps me a lot. But as far as the finding solace in the bottle, that doesn't happen anymore. I sort of move through that phase, I think, which is for the better.

Robyn

Absolutely

Terry

Definitely for the better. But yeah, so after the three-month sort of work experience, to put it in probably the way that it was intended, I then enrolled in the course. Now, back in those days, it was a course run through international correspondence schools which were based in Sydney and we had mentors and tutors appointed to us by the Australian Institute of Embalming, which is a subsidiary of the Australian Funeral Directors Association, the AFDA.

Terry

So the course took about 18 months to complete all the theory. We had a series of 20 written examinations that we had to complete and then, in conjunction with the theory, was the practical work that we had to do. And pretty much like the way the course is run today, you need a funeral home or funeral director to sponsor you so that you've got access to a mortuary to carry out the practical side of the work

Robyn

Right

Terry

So there's a number of embalmings that you need to do and case studies to prepare you for that final practical examination.

Robyn

How long? Like it's about 18 months.

Terry

It's about 18 months to two years, just depending on how quickly you're able to get through your practical case studies as well.

Robyn

So how do you go about getting practical case studies?

Terry

Okay, so through the training, the RTOs that are around they have access. One's run by Nelson Brothers and the other is run by Tobin Brothers, so two quite large companies in Melbourne and they provide some mortuary support. But, depending on where you're from, there's companies that are involved with InvoCare and they have large mortuary set-ups in each state, pretty much.

Robyn

Right

Women in the Funeral Industry

Terry

So a lot of the students will do mortuary time and practical work through those bigger companies. I myself don't have any students or I'm not mentoring anybody at the moment, which is a nice change for me. It gives me a bit more free time because it can be quite time consuming depending on the number of students and the ability of the students. Sometimes you need to spend more time with one than you do with the other, just depending on their aptitude and their ability. But you make that assessment when you're training.

Robyn

So for somebody who wants. In fact, I met a lady the other day who said I just want to be an embalmer and she said I know it's really hard to get into.

Terry

Yep

Robyn

How do people go about getting into that industry?

Terry

It's basically knocking on doors, talking to the companies you know and probably the Tobin Group, Le Pine, through Invocare, or Nelson Brothers or some of the bigger companies in Melbourne just going and knocking on the door and talking to them. Because you really you need a funeral home to sponsor you, basically, so you've got access to that mortuary environment to do your practical work.

Robyn

So when a company is big enough to have their own person, they don't normally need them to be able for somebody to have that opportunity, do they? So they've really got to go to the bigger companies.

Terry

Got to go to the bigger companies, yeah. Like a lot of the smaller funeral homes, don't have embalmers on staff. So I myself and there's a number of others in Victoria that do a bit of trade work, so we'll get the occasional phone call from a funeral home that needs somebody embalmed.

Terry

So they'll ring one of the trade embalmers and we'll go off and do the body preparation for them. Um other company some of the smaller companies will will use the bigger funeral homes to do that and they'll transfer the deceased into the care of the bigger funeral home to have the mortuary work carried out.

Robyn

Right

Terry

So some of the funeral homes will do that. There's an organisation in Melbourne that's specifically there to provide support to smaller funeral homes by doing embalming transfers, providing general funeral director's assistance or FDAs for services, right. So it's sort of a little bit of a niche market within the industry, but the amount of work that they're doing there is obviously a need for it.

Robyn

Sure sure. So what age do normally people kind of go into that sort of? Have you noticed?

Terry

How long is a piece of string? You know, it's probably. I would suggest probably people in their mid-20s.

Robyn

Oh, really that young?

Terry

That young, yeah,

Robyn

wow

Terry

And lots of women at the moment seem to want to be embalmers.

Robyn

Right

Terry

I don't really know what the attraction is to women, but a lot of women want to be embalmers at the moment.

Robyn

And that's very different from when you.

Misconceptions About Embalming

Terry

When I joined the industry it was very much a male-dominated industry. Women were seen to be in more the administrative-type roles within the funeral home. Doing the secretarial work, receptionist, those sorts of activities, very few female funeral directors or funeral directors assistants. When I started back in 1986, doesn't sound that long ago when you say it fast, but that was pretty much the way it was. It was a male-dominated industry

Robyn

It was. Even when I started 22 years ago. It was still, there weren't many female arrangers around, compared to now.

Terry

Yeah, and probably the changeover has probably occurred with the introduction of Francis Tobin funerals, white Lady funerals, right Nightingale funerals, you know. So probably with them starting up, probably Francis Tobin was the trailblazer there. You know, as far as putting a female name out there with the funeral industry, you know there's other people, you know there's like Louise King down in Geelong. She does a lot of work from that female perspective. There was Gabrielle Walsh, you know.

Terry

So females that got into the industry and most of them had previous experience within other companies and then moved out on their own and it's probably, you know, raised the awareness of the number of women that actually work in the industry. And you know, I don't know, I suppose the advertising for them is you know, a woman's compassion, or you know more empathy and stuff which I dispute.

Robyn

I agree.

Terry

I dispute that advertising gimmick that a woman has more compassion than a guy. You know I personally do a lot of funerals for babies. Yes, and one of the companies, one of the corporates that I work for. There was a lady who was very prolific in the number of children's funerals and baby funerals that she arranged and I was actually number two on the list at the company, which surprised a lot of people that, yeah, we've got this Aussie ocker bloke gets out there and shows a bit of care and compassion, but at the end of the day, I'm a father, I'm a parent as well.

Robyn

That's right.

Terry

The emotion is there and the connection is there with the families.

Robyn

What do you think are some of the biggest misconceptions people have about embalming?

Terry

I suppose people think of the Egyptian mummy, and that's their concept of embalming. Where that was the ancient style of embalming. They don't understand the modern concept of embalming. Where that was, okay, the ancient style of embalming. They don't understand the modern concept of embalming and there's no need for them to understand it either, but it's just that perception that embalming. As soon as you say embalming, it's like oh yeah, Egypt mummies wrapped in a bandage, you know, and it's sort of unfortunate and it's probably just lack of education and things. You know. Look, we're talking briefly about before, about the funeral industry and sort of how it wasn't really spoken about. But when I first started in the industry, the two taboo subjects were how you got here and how you left, sex and dying. They never discuss them.

Robyn

Right

Terry

Now it's everywhere. It's on the TV. They talk about all the and the radio. I never heard commercials for funeral directors. Now some of the companies are out there and are major sponsors in some of the biggest talkback radio communities within the network.

Robyn

Yeah absolutely.

Terry

So the veil has been lifted a bit there. Some funeral homes are trying to educate the general public by having open days and information sessions and sort of bring people in from the general public to have a look at the goings-on in the funeral home to try and dispel those myths or the rumours that are out there.

Robyn

And that's the very reason for this podcast is to do the same sort of thing. You know, because there is all this kind of mystery about it and everything, and it's not, and the people who work in it are just everyday people like you and I. Yeah, you know, we're not some weirdo, you know?

Terry

No, look there can be a level of weirdness, but I don't know some real estate agents that are weird,

Robyn

that's right, that's right.

Terry

It's just the same with every industry. There's always going to be that different person there, but it takes all sorts of people to make up the industry. You know the majority of people that I know in the industryl they come for a very short time and go, or they come for a long time.

Robyn

And it gets under their skin and they can't leave it.

Terry

To me, and it has been this way for many, many years. It hasn't been a job to me for years.

Robyn

No

Terry

It's my vocation. Yeah. And it's been that way for a long, long time. I don't consider it work.

Robyn

I know I feel exactly the same way.

Terry

It is not work. I go out and I deal with families and look after them at probably one of the lowest times in their life. And once again we go back to those two words when you walk away from that family and they say thank you. I've had families that walked in and they've been as grumpy as all get out. Yeah, but part of that grieving process, through the steps of grief, you know grumpy, grumpy, grumpy, you know don't want to really talk to you At the end of the arrangement conference they want to hug you they want to trust you, they want to be your best mate.

Terry

Yeah. Because you've put things into some sort of perspective with them and given them a bit of a hand up as to (what's the word I'm looking for) how to sort of cope with that grief mechanism.

What Happens After Death at Home

Robyn

And they also have that feeling of somebody else guiding them in a place where they just don't feel that they know where to go at all. And I remember just recently talking to a young man in Western Australia that I was helping, my girlfriend's brother passed away in Western Australia and he was saying to me "I just didn't know where to go. And you've made everything, even though I wasn't there, just by talking to him I was able to say these are the steps that you need to take and these are the things that you need to think about. You know, do you want a church service? Do you want a celebrant service? Do you want? You know, these are the things that the funeral director is going to ask you and it's probably worth having a discussion with the rest of the family about.

Terry

Yeah, I had a phone call on Friday night, a mate of mine who lives in Adelaide, we've been mates for 34, 35 years. Anyway, his daughter rang me up to let me know that he'd passed away at home and just wasn't sure what she needed to do or what the next step was. The ambulance had been to verify that he had passed and they had left, and it was a case of you know. Her thoughts were what do I do now?

Robyn

Yes, so that's a very good point that you bring up there. If somebody does die at home like that, then you know I got asked this question yesterday. If somebody dies at home, who's the first person that I ring?

Terry

In most cases, you would want to ring an ambulance to confirm that the death has occurred,

Robyn

But they don't take the body away,

Terry

They don't take the body away no but in some cases, particularly if the person's under palliative care at home, there'll be the palliative care team that can come and verify that the death has occurred.

Robyn

Yes.

Terry

If the person hasn't been going to a doctor regularly and things like that, the coroner may need to be involved. Yes, so the next port of call would be the ambulance service would contact Vicpol and they would arrive and do their brief.

Robyn

So Vicpol is Victorian Police,

Terry

Victorian Police, yeah. So they'd do their initial investigation as to whether it's going to be a reportable death to the coroners or whether a GP or specialist doctor who's been treating the person. If that's the case, can issue a certificate. And sometimes that may mean a phone call by the police to the coroner's staff to talk to them, explain the circumstances surrounding the passing, and the coroner's staff may be happy to let the funeral director contact the doctor concerned and arrange the necessary documentation through them.

Robyn

So if somebody dies of a heart attack and they've been treated by the doctor for the last and they've seen the doctor only two weeks ago the heart, you know, is still continuing to have problems and everything else and they die of a heart attack, then the doctor's got to sign off to say yes, you know, and he's got to have seen him in the last three months my understanding.

Terry

Yeah, pretty much so. Yep, that's right. Yep, so the family would then contact the funeral director of their choice, who would transfer the loved one into the care of the funeral home, and then they'd follow up with the family to meet with them, to make all the arrangements for the funeral service and also liaise with the medical facility to arrange the medical certificate, cause of death yeah, which isn't a death certificate. It's just a certificate which allows the funeral director to go ahead with the disposition of the body. So, whether that's a burial, cremation or whatever the case may be, right, okay, so that certificate itself is not a death certificate? Yep, it's just a certificate that verifies that the person has passed away and that the funeral director can now go ahead with the necessary arrangements for the funeral service.

Body Preparation vs. Embalming

Robyn

So just explain to me what the difference is in somebody just having a body preparation as opposed to being embalmed. So if they go to a funeral company that doesn't have an embalmer on staff and their staff prepare the body, what does that actually mean?

Terry

Okay. So in most cases the body is going to be washed and groomed dressed in clothing, if clothing is provided by family. If no clothing is provided, normally a burial shroud will be placed over the deceased, and this is the way that I operate. Yeah, there are some companies around that, if there's no viewing required, the body is placed into the coffin, as it is and away they go. I'm very big on dignity and respect.

Robyn

Oh, so am I.

Terry

Very big on dignity and respect and you know whether there's a viewing or not taking place. If at all possible, with the exception of the decomposition or major trauma when a body leaves my care, they're suitable for viewing if necessary. Yeah, like I've attended funeral services now and the family have come up to me and said "oh, aunty Liz from Adelaide's here (right), she hasn't seen her brother George for x, is it possible she says goodbye to him?".

Robyn

Yes, yeah.

Terry

I know that I can lift or open that coffin up with confidence, that George is dressed, he's shaved, his hair's been combed, his mouth's going to be closed, his eyes and features are going to be set, his hands are going to be, hopefully, in a suitable position, otherwise I'll move them at the time. Because, you know, in transport from the funeral home to the location, the body can move a little bit. (Yeah). But I'm confident you know that Aunty Liz can view George if that's what she wants.

Robyn

Right, right, okay so, but staff working in the funeral industry can may be required to dress?

Terry

Some companies, part of the requirement of their funeral director's assistants is that they do basic mortuary work. (Right right), so that's part of the requirement in some of the smaller companies.

Robyn

But it's a very different thing, isn't it than embalming?

Terry

Oh most, definitely.

Robyn

Yeah, it's just purely washing

Terry

And there's no, no invasive procedures as such. ( yeah) so the only invasive procedure may be the suturing of the mouth to close the mouth, you know, so that you know the body's not laying there with the mouth gaping open, and that may be the only invasive procedure that that person will be trained in. And somebody well, if I am, I myself I've done it quite a few times. I've gone out to smaller funeral homes and I've actually taught the staff basic mortuary preparation. So the dressing, the washing, how to put the eye caps in to close the eyes, and so the eye cap's just a small plastic cap that goes over the eye. It's got little perforations on it so that when you lift the eyelid down, the little perforations stick to the back of the eyelid so that the eye doesn't come back open. (Okay), so you can do it with cotton wool as well, or absorbent cloth. You can just put a little piece underneath the eye or on the eyeball and it just sits on there. But the eye cap works a bit better because what it also does is it fills out the shape of the eye again. (Right right, right right.) So as the body dehydrates because the eyeball has a lot of fluid in it, the eye can actually change shape and can get that, I suppose the best way to describe it is like fish eyes. If you go to the fish market, look for fresh fish. Their eyes are full. You can tell if a fish has been there a few days because the eyes are sunken in. So they've got that concave sort of shape.

Robyn

I'll never look at fish in the market again the same way now, Terry.

Terry

But you know, it's probably the best way to describe it so that people understand what you're talking about. And so when you put that eye cap in, it gives the eye back its normal round shape, (Right) Because if you don't put the eye cap in or put something in there to fill, that contour in the eyelid itself will follow the shape of the eyeball. (Okay). So you get that sunken look (Right) On the eyelid, so the eye cap goes in to avoid that. And then we have things like expression formers. You know, if the person doesn't have, we haven't got their dentures. Or, as the case is in a lot of instances, particularly elderly residents of nursing homes they haven't worn their dentures for quite some time. (Yep). So the shape of their mouth has changed and the dentures no longer fit. (Right). So you'll put their dentures in and you look at it and you go, no, that doesn't look right. So you'll take the dentures back out and you'll use um, you know and sometimes it's just cotton, cotton wool or or an expression former just to give the face back, that definition,

Robyn

So does it help you to have a photo of the person?

Terry

Photos are good, sometimes (mm-hmm), other times they are the bane of your life. Yeah, If you think about it, in most cases, when's a photo taken?

Robyn

At a happy occasion.

Terry

At a happy and special occasion, and particularly from a fan scenario, they've spent a couple of hours with their hairdressers getting their hair done. If it's a family wedding, the makeup's been done and they look a million dollars. (Yeah). When we get them, unfortunately, they don't look a million dollars.

Robyn

And they're also 15 years older.

Terry

Yeah, 15 years older and, as I say to people, I work with a scalpel, not a wand. (right), I'm not a magician. (right), I can do the best that I possibly can, once again, to try and make that viewing as positive as we can.

Robyn

Yeah on on a negative point of view. I guess have you ever had a situation where people have sort of said that looks nothing like?

Terry

Yep definitely have. Yeah, I had an incident with my late wife. We had a viewing. I was busy with another family and my wife it was her first ever viewing at the funeral home and I've got everything set up anyway. I left her with the family. I went off to deal with another family that I had. A couple of moments later there was a panicked knock on the door. I've excused myself and she said to me "the family said it's not their loved one. I said what do you mean? She goes. They reckon it's not Dad. So of course, the bottoms dropped out of my world, thinking oh my God, what do we do now? So I went down, spoke to the family, went in and had a look at the deceased, confirmed the identity of the deceased that it was their father went and checked our register to see how long we'd had him. We'd had him in our care for about two weeks. So what had actually happened is, after he came into our care, he was embalmed pretty much straight away, because they knew that there was going to be an extended period between the time of death and the time of funeral. So the formaldehyde that we use in the embalming process dehydrates the body. So what had happened is poor old Joe was laying in a coffin. He'd been in a coffin for about 12 days or so and the dehydration had started to take place. So as he dehydrated, the wrinkles and things in his face were pulled out and it looked like he had a facelift. (Right right). So he looked a lot younger than what he actually was at the time of death.

Personal Questions with Terry

Terry

Yeah, so I went and spoke to his eldest son and I said "has Dad got any tattoos or identifying marks on his body that we can formally identify him with w ith you?" said, oh yeah, he's got a anchor tattoo on his collarbone. So I went, I said "give me a minute. So I went and I undid the tie and the shirt, pulled the shirt back, had looked sure enough, there's the anchor tattoo and his name was corresponding with who we thought it was. So I went and got the son and I brought him down and I showed him the tattoo. Everything was fine after that, just that initial reaction from the family and my poor wife, you know her first ever viewing. She was traumatised but we got through it. We got through it.

Robyn

It's interesting, isn't it? Because I had a similar experience with my aunt. When my aunt died and I hadn't you know, I went and saw her with my uncle and to me she looked nothing like she did, right, and he just kept saying "you look so beautiful, you look so beautiful. So she actually looked like she did years ago, (yep), and he was like absolutely enthralled and I just kept thinking 'that's not the aunty that I remember' and it was her, but it was just that she looked so beautiful and he was just absolutely over the moon.

Terry

Yeah, and I've, like I've been, I've been to viewings for other companies and dealt, looked at, looked at deceased and thought why have they used so much makeup?

Robyn

Right, I want lots by the way, I want to look gorgeous,

Terry

Okay all right, we'll see how we go. I'll make a note of that.

Robyn

You know that wand thing. You've got to use that on me right?

Terry

Right the wand. T there I've got a lady who's a very close friend of mine, whose husband I conducted a funeral for earlier this middle of last year, and she all, every time she sees me, she reminds me that when the time comes, I'm not to put bright red lipstick on her, and I, quite often, when I go and visit her, I take a couple of a couple of lipsticks with me that are bright red in colour and ask her "now, which one do you want me to use? I'll put it aside for you. And she keeps threatening me she's going to come back and get me. But yeah, it's just, you know, it's, I don't know, it's probably my humour that gets me through.

Robyn

I think that's true of anyone who works in the industry.

Terry

At work or out there at the coalface funeral director mode, and away we go. Yes, if you see me away from the funeral director mode, I'm probably more subdued than I used to be when I was younger. (Right). And it's probably because I would like to think that families won't second guess about ringing Terry when one of their loved ones pass away. ( right). I don't want them to think, 'oh, he's a bit of a clown. Do we really want Terry to look after mum', you know? I'd rather them think, 'yeah, Terry's the right person'.

Robyn

Stable and all that thing.

Terry

And in one of my roles within Freemasonry Victoria, I get the opportunity to speak to families and give them advice on funeral service. Yep. So I don't turn them into funerals for my own business all the time. Quite often I will send them to smaller independent funeral homes in their locality, and that's just part of what I do.

Robyn

And people don't realise that, you know there is more than one company that can provide all female staff and all that sort of stuff. I mean, we don't kind of you know, but they don't have big advertising budgets and things like that, and it's people like you and I who can connect them with the right people for them, you know. It's always an interesting area to work in when you're talking about people about, you know, because we plan everything else, but we don't ever plan on dying, and it's you know. Um, I've said many times that you know talking about sex won't make you pregnant, just like talking about death isn't going to make you die

Terry

no, exactly yeah,

Robyn

And that's our problem, that we don't have those conversations about death. So our time, this, this could go on for hours, but our time is almost up.

Robyn

To wrap up our sessions, as a big fan of the actor's studio, I'm going to take a leaf from their book and ask a series of questions of each of our guests. So there's seven questions, and they are random questions that you may have to think about for a second, but I want to know:

Robyn

What is your favourite word and

Terry

Compassion. ( Why?) Because I think I'm full of it.

Robyn

I can think of other things you're full of as well, but we won't go there, okay.

Terry

I went to the bathroom this morning.

Robyn

What is the thing you are most grateful for in your life?

Terry

Family.

Robyn

If you could work in any other roles rather than what you do now in the funeral industry, what would you be?

Terry

Probably a nurse

Robyn

nurse Interesting. I could see you as a policeman, actually, but okay.

Robyn

What is the sound that you love the most?

Terry

A welcoming voice.

Robyn

Right, I've told my husband that it should be my snoring, because I'm renowned for that apparently.

Robyn

If you could have dinner with one person, living or dead, who would it be?

Terry

Queen Elizabeth II (why?) I found her to be very gracious, very caring, and for her position in community and life. I think she was very much with it.

Robyn

She was amazing, wasn't she - just amazing?

Robyn

What do you think is the most important lesson you have learned in your life so far?

Terry

Forgiveness.

Robyn

And directly from the Actors Studio. If there is a heaven, what would you want God to say to you when you're met at the pearly gates?

Terry

Welcome

Robyn

Love it, love it. I was interviewed by somebody once and they said "no, I'm not going to get there, I'm, there's a. There's a hot rock with my name on it downstairs.

Robyn

Thank you so much for your time. Terry Clifton, what can I call you? Funeral director, embalmer, extraordinaire something?

Closing Thoughts and Contact Information

Robyn

As we wrap up our podcast, if you have a question you would like to ask or any other related occupation you'd like to learn about, please drop an email to ask at ladyofdeathcomau and we will look at possibly doing a podcast of the questions you've always wanted to know but never knew or were game enough to ask. This is Robyn O'Connell, the Lady of Death whose philosophy is 'organising your final farewell is not about wanting to die. It's about wanting to reflect who you are in your goodbye.'.