From Kettle Colours to Cardboard Myths: Truth in the Coffin Business

Death isn't a topic most of us eagerly discuss over dinner, yet Mark Sui, owner of Coffin and Casket Victoria, brings a refreshing perspective to this universal experience. His journey into the funeral industry wasn't planned—it began when his family migrated from Hong Kong and formed an unexpected partnership with an Italian stonemason. What started as building monuments evolved into supplying coffins, caskets, and funeral accessories across Australia.

Mark pulls back the shroud on industry misconceptions with candour and occasional humour. Ever wondered why caskets have split lids? The answer is refreshingly practical. Think cardboard coffins are environmentally friendly? Mark explains why that's largely marketing spin rather than reality. His insights challenge us to rethink what we've assumed about death care practices.

Perhaps most moving is Mark's long-standing partnership with the Rebecca Jane Foundation, where he donates coffins for babies whose families face financial hardship. This seven-year commitment reveals the human connections forged in an industry often perceived as morbid. As Mark reflects on emotional resilience and future innovations in memorialisation, his message becomes clear: without understanding what truly matters in honouring those we've lost, even the most advanced technologies remain empty gestures.

Have questions about death care you've always wondered but never dared to ask? Email ask@ladyofdeath.com.au, and your curiosities might shape future episodes of this illuminating podcast.

Have questions about death, dying or the funeral industry? Email ask@ladyofdeath.com.au to have them answered in a future episode.

Transcript

Introducing the Lady of Death

Robyn 1:56

Today , my guest is Mark Sui . Mark runs a company called Coffin and Casket Victoria and they supply , obviously , coffins and caskets , urns , accessory for funeral homes . You know , like the trolleys they use all that sort of stuff that is associated with what goes on behind the scenes in a funeral home . So welcome , Mark .

Mark 2:18

Hi everyone , and although my name is Coffin and Casket Victoria , I'm not limited to supply only in Victoria . I do a couple of interstate clients , and at the moment too .

Robyn 2:32

Ah good point .

Mark 2:33

We're based in Victoria . That's how it is yeah .

Robyn 2:37

Okay

Mark 2:38

Tell me about yourself who you live with family pets .

Mark 2:44

Obviously . I have a wife , four children the eldest one is doing her VCE this year , Year 12 , and then Year 11 . I think it's easier to remember the school year than the real age , because I have too many ! Year 9 and then Year 2 a

Mark's Journey Into the Death Industry

Mark 3:04

boy . G ot two dogs , got a four or five-year-old Kelpie and recently have a puppy .

Robyn 3:12

Oh really , what sort ?

Mark 3:14

A husky crossed Poodle .

Robyn 3:18

Wow .

Mark 3:18

Yeah , it's a funny combination . A lot of people say that . (R: Okay , okay) , yeah , yeah , it's only 12 weeks old , so still a baby .

Robyn 3:29

Oh , like lots of , yeah , lots of stuff going on there .

Mark 3:32

Oh , yeah , yeah ,

Robyn 3:34

Se ek and destroy age right ?

Mark 3:36

Yes , yes .

Robyn 3:38

Tell me , how did you come to work in a , you know , in an industry like this , like where did your journey in the beginning start ? You know , it's not exactly sort of something that you know when you were at school or uni, you go 'oh well , I'm going to go into the coffin business' , you know .

Mark 3:57

Yeah , well , I , actually , in my Year 2 , I , you know , I write and writing that my hope for the future is dealing with funeral homes and dead people . (R: Oh really ? ? ) N o , of course not . No , no , no , no , but it's a long story . I , well , I'm the one who came here to study by myself when I'm 15 , and then (R: from where ? ) From Hong Kong from Hong Kong (R: yeah) yeah , which is a long time ago .

Mark 4:38

Mmm, and then soon after , you know , a few years after my whole family migrated here , father always run a business , import-export , all this shipping thing . He planned to retire here because we sell all our assets in Hong Kong when they move over here . But then we met with our neighbour which turns out to be an Italian stonemason at that time .

Robyn 5:08

Right .

Mark 5:10

So , yeah , he talked to my father . They get along , all these old people in that generation , they just naturally talk over coffee and get along . And that Italian guy said "well , you know , I'm doing tombstone , I'm building headstone in the cemetery . This is my job . Would you be interested , you know , to establish something ? " . And my father said , oh , why not ? You know , I'll do it as an investment . So we , you know , after yum cha , my father , with this Italian guy , they came back and my father told the whole family that , "oh , I'm going to invest in a business . And we asked , oh , what sort of business are you investing in ? He said , oh , I'm not too sure , but something to do with building a stone in the cemetery . And then we say , what ? Yeah , like what ? Building tombstone in cemetery ? (R: Oh) , yeah , so that's how we started 25 years ago . I remember that it's Year 2000 .

Robyn 6:21

So was he actually involved in doing it , or was he just like the importer , or

Mark 6:27

No , no , because the Italian guy that they , you know the , the business is already established .

Mark 6:33

So they , they , they got the team , they got the subcontractor who building it . They got , yeah , um , but like 25 years ago we used to quarry granite locally and cut and polish everything here . So it's got a big warehouse with a saw and polisher big factory . But then , like anything else , my parents have a good connection with China and they say , well , you know it's , it's heavy industry . Why don't we just do it in China and import like so , yeah , so they they ended up exploring that and yeah , and about three years after we start importing from China the stone (R: Right) , and about 10 years , yeah , probably like 2010 , I think most of the like 93% of the monument here in Victoria is being manufactured and imported from China . (R: Wow) , this has changed the whole face of the industry .

Robyn 7:47

So how many people still have , like you know , stonemason work done and big monumental graves Like we used to see monumental graves around a lot ? How many people kind of still do that ? Is it still ?

Mark 8:03

Oh , a lot , it's still quite a lot , yeah , yeah . Greek is currently the biggest market for headstone .

Robyn 8:10

Oh , wow .

Mark 8:11

Yeah , greek Orthodox . Any race with a high religion tradition will still build a monument . Okay , Buddhism , Muslim , Jewish, Orthodox, yeah , the other one who currently yeah .

Robyn 8:31

So do people go like direct to you or do they go through the funeral company ? How does that ? Because you know , like we have the funeral and then obviously the person is buried at the time , but you can't put up a monument when there's a grave . What's the process ?

Mark 8:54

The interesting part is in Victoria we can't link up all these cemetery, funeral homes , stonemason . Basically is three different industry and we can't force people to buy product . Like if you go to a cemetery you have to use b funeral homes and c stonemason . You can't do that , it's totally independent . But saying that , you know there's always connection between the three and this is how this is part of the reason how I got into the wholesale coffin business too . Yeah , so in my 30's I can see the demand of monuments decreasing year by year , so that I need to actively exploring what else can I do with my connection with all these funeral homes . And this is how the wholesale coffin and casket coming in , because this coffin and casket product is probably the most necessary product that everyone have to use to conduct a funeral .

Robyn 10:07

So share with us about how people react when you tell them that you work in this type of business , like it's not exactly like you're selling cars , although they do take you to your final destination .

Mark 10:17

Yeah , Well , I think , first one like first of all , it's we as the children being in shock that we are entering into this sort of business . (R: yes) Because the Italian guy you know , selling part of his shares to my father and they can see us importing the stone here from China . We're changing the way of doing that business . And soon after he said , "ok , well , you know I should retire , you know , I just leave it for your family to do it , because you know it's too different from what he can manage already , like five , six years after . So we ended up like our whole family running a business together and running a business that we have totally no idea of . We don't know the sizes and measurement of different cemeteries , different area . We don't know how to run a business in Australia . We are just like fresh off the boat at that time .

Mark 11:35

Well , there's a lot of things for us to learn and manage . At that time I remember I probably , like I have to physically went down to the cemetery and measure monument with a tape measure myself , especially as a Chinese background, we are more traditional and superstitious , so you always have to travel to cemetery , always have to go into funeral homes to talk to families . This creates a lot of awkward moments at the start , (R: right) , yeah , but fortunately , you know , cemetery in Victoria , like in Melbourne , is quite beautiful . They have a really really like park-like setting , unlike many other cemeteries in the world .

Robyn 12:31

Right .

Mark 12:31

So it's still quite . You know , after a while , after a few years , I got used to it and you know I just bring my lunch and have my lunch over in cemetery and talk to the worker . You know , have a laughter . You know people work in this industry is . You know they, they always very optimistic , funny, you know we enjoy a laughter all the time . You know we see so much of life and death and you know we , we always have a mentality that you know why not laugh about it ? N o matter how big the issue is, just , you know , just laugh about it . No big deal it's true .

Robyn 13:15

he true because you know , a lot of people think that our work is very morbid and stuff like that and we all have . I

Coffins vs Caskets: The Differences

Robyn 13:24

think you know the laughter part of it keeps us all balanced , it keeps us all sane , and no disrespect for anyone who has died . It's about you know what we do in life and stuff that we talk about and laugh about . So I'm just going to take you back one step here and just ask you to explain to people what the difference is between a coffin and a casket ,

Mark 13:48

Okay , a coffin, well , the most uh general distinction is coffin is more a diamond shape , which is uh shoulder width , uh shoulder is the wider part of the box and then go all the way down to the legs , which is the thinnest part , whereas casket , most of the time , is described as a rectangular box .

Robyn 14:18

Right . (M: Yeah) , and you often see caskets that have a lid split in half . Why do they do that ?

Mark 14:27

Well , it's actually the other way around . Traditionally it's all flip-open cover . Most of the coffin and casket is flip-open cover , but because the coffin with the diamond shape is too hard for the hinges to go , well , that's why it becomes split lid . (R: ok) So the lid is actually come off completely .

Robyn 14:54

Yeah , but you know , in a casket , when they have , and you often see it in the movies and stuff , where they have half the lid open in the caskets . Why did they do that ? Why don't they have the whole thing open ?

Mark 15:08

I don't know , I don't know whether I can say it here , but it's quite funny . It's more practical in general . Yeah , (R: okay) , you know body preparation involves a lot of things , (R: Yep) , and the more you show , the more work you need to put into it .

Robyn 15:29

Okay , yeah , yeah .

Mark 15:31

So it's practical to cover the underneath half , because people are more when they do a viewing . When family do a viewing , they will want to focus more on the face .

Robyn 15:44

Exactly . I mean , they're not really worried about seeing their legs , right ?

Mark 15:48

Exactly , exactly , yeah .

Robyn 15:50

They just want to see the face and hands generally , you know that upper body part .

Mark 15:56

Yeah , so it's more for a practical reason ,

Robyn 15:59

Right , okay ? So , and which one do you think is the more popular to go with now ?

Mark 16:10

With a high cremation rate, the popular one is always the simple coffin (R: Right) . We use a material called MDF . It's an artificial timber board , but when they burn in the crematorium it's actually really quick and with low ashes remaining . Compared to a traditional solid timber casket , you have increased the ashes amount by 60% .

Robyn 16:45

Wow , that's a lot . (M: Yeah) , that's a lot . What's your thoughts about you know , this new big thing about cardboard

Debunking the Cardboard Coffin Myth

Robyn 16:54

coffins . What's your opinions about cardboard coffins ?

Mark 17:00

That's another interesting question . A lot of people say cardboard coffin is more environmental friendly , which is totally a myth .

Robyn 17:13

But it's not , is it ?

Mark 17:14

No , it's not the way it's manufactured . It's high energy manufacturing . It's manufactured far away , you've got high emission during transportation

Robyn 17:29

And you've also got so much glue in it . (M: exactly , exactly) .

Robyn 17:33

Like . That's not good for the environment .

Mark 17:40

Yeah , packaging . You know high wastage . I can show you a list of how it's not environmental friendly . So this is definitely not well, this is only a marketing thing , like a selling point of it . (R: yes) It's not true . On the other hand , most of the people choose to sell this product or choose to accept this product , is because of the cost , because it's cheaper , (R: right) , yeah , so if there is not a significant price difference , then I'll say it's just a ripoff . (R: Yeah) , if you find someone trying to sell you a cardboard coffin with anything else than cost , I think it would be a rip off .

Robyn 18:30

I think , yeah , it's an interesting topic , because when I'm meeting with families talking about what their wishes are for their final farewell , you know , often they'll say to me l"ook , you know , I just want a cardboard box . And we start talking about what's involved in a cardboard box and they end up sort of saying , no , don't worry about that . Yeah , I'm good without it , you know .

Mark 18:54

And particularly if you have circumstances where the body needs to keep in the fridge for a long time . (R: Yes) , it's not ideal for cardboard , because they absorb a lot of moisture .

Robyn 19:07

That's right .

Mark 19:08

And it softens the cardboard over time . Yeah Well , put it this way If the family choosing to use cardboard box will actually go to the crematorium to see how this box going into the crematorium , they will never choose that again .

Robyn 19:27

Yes , yes I totally agree . You know , that's what people don't see . That's the stuff that people don't see . (M: Yeah) , and you know , I totally agree with you .

Mark 19:39

Yeah , and it's unfortunate that people's attitude to what their passing loved ones shift a little . Well , put it this way If you're treating your passed loved one as a problem , (R: right) and you will just trying to think of what is the cheapest way to deal with this problem , then really it's no different from you know , a garbage dump , but we're talking about, you know , there was a human before with dignity . So , yeah , when we talk to family , when we're advising family , yeah , it's very important . Well , it's very easy to being drift away from what's the real meaning of conducting a funeral .

Robyn 20:45

Yeah , yeah , and that's a whole subject in itself .

Mark 20:50

Yeah , yeah . To us it's more a journey than a problem .

Robyn 20:57

Right , (M: yeah) , so from talking to funeral directors , do you think people are you know it's now coming down to very much a cost-conscious thing when they choose a coffin ? Like , are they all going, I was very surprised quite early when I started looking into this that the least sold coffin is actually the cheapest coffin that a funeral home will have , Because it's almost like they don't, the family , don't want to be seen to be doing the cheapest , but the second cheapest one is

Value in Funeral Choices

Robyn 21:30

actually their highest seller . Do you do you think that people are now and that was a long time ago like that's not now ? Do you think now people because of the economic climate climate that they are now much more conscious about how something costs rather than anything else ?

Mark 21:51

I don't think it's about how much money in the pocket, in a lot of cases it's the family couldn't see the value of what they paid for . This is the main . I think this is the main issue that everyone I've been talking to a lot of funeral directors , people working in this industry about this, it's about it's always about value , like it's very similar to the tombstone building that we've always been doing . People still spend like $20,000 , $30,000 for a tombstone .

Mark 22:34

(R: Wow really ? ) Yeah , completely personalised design . We're happy to spend like eight hours on the design for one particular client on that , because they want to achieve the value that in their mind , to represent who that person really was . (R: right) Unfortunately , a lot of process of modern funeral become so standardised , so you walk in , you're all doing the same thing without asking questions why I have to do this or that . It's just go in , go out . And then , if people don't see the values , the next thing they will ask is the price , (R: right) Yeah , like , well , let's do a little comparison . Like , if you're buying an iWatch nowadays , yeah , you will compare different brands , Apple's or Samsung or whatever . You'll see the function of it . This is all values that you know, that's suitable to your own personality ,

Robyn 23:46

Right

Mark 23:47

Whereas a TV, TV is a relatively older product and they don't offer as many models as they used to , (R: true) , and because of that , you just look for a cheaper one . So the price go down, it's not that people don't have money to buy TV anymore . They can't show the value anymore . (R: The value) , yeah , this is happening exactly in the funeral industry . You see , boutique funeral director , truly personalised funeral that reflecting who that person was . They're probably charging , like I don't know , anything from $15,000 to $20,000 for a funeral , but family walk off happy and they're just like attending a wedding , (R: right) . They know they farewell their loved one in a very good way .

Robyn 24:49

In everything that they ever wanted for them .

Mark 24:52

Exactly .

Mark 24:53

Or on the other hand , you have a $3,000 funeral that you walk in , walk out , you cry or you do whatever you want and you walk out the funeral and you feel empty . You don't really feel that you are healing from your wounds . (R: Yep) , because something hasn't been fulfilled . (R: Sure) , yeah . But with a lot of retail-trained funeral homes , they set up all these standards for you know how a funeral should be conducted and you know our rules , compliances , all these compliance things limit what we can do , (R: yes) , and what we can offer to the family . But you will still see , you always still see people in the industry think out of the box and trying very hard to create the last loving memory for families , but a lot of them just can't be bothered . .

Robyn 26:08

ll have to say , as a funeral celebrant , one of the things that I love seeing is when people are writing on coffins . You know , you have a nice white coffin and then they'll come up and they'll write messages on that coffin and I always kind of think that's a really cathartic thing to do for the family . They're sending that family with those wishes and stuff like that and I quite , I quite like that whole um personalisation thing and you know , I know that you know there's there's many different types of coffins and stuff now , but have you ever had any like strange requests for coffins ? Like , has anyone ever approached you and said , hey , I'd like something . . .. ?

Mark 26:49

Oh , just a month ago , around a month ago , out of the blue , a funeral homes funeral director contacted me and showed me a picture of like appliances , like a kettle and a toaster . (R: right) And I say , "well , you know I don't sell appliances , why are you showing that photo for ? And he said , well , just look at the color of the kettle . A family want exactly the same color on that kettle . And you do it . I say , yeah , I can't see why not . A family want exactly the same colour on that kettle . Oh right , can you do it ? I say , yeah , I can't see why not . So I go to the guy I work with . You know , we mix the colour and match it and painted the coffin into that colour and the family is really happy with that .

Robyn 27:42

Yes .

Mark 27:43

And I just joke with that funeral director . I say , "well , is that something ? Is the death , something to do with that kettle ? (R:right) They say "no , no , no , no . It just happened that they love that colour and they can't find a colour chart to show me , so they just show me the whole kettle .

Robyn 28:09

And I think , you know , I think we kind of only limit ourselves to our imagination .

Robyn 28:11

(M: Oh , yeah , yeah) , I remember very distinctly a funeral that I did of a man where and I'm talking probably 15 years ago , and they spent $10,000 on his coffin it was going to be cremated . And I just couldn't understand that . At the time you could purchase a coffin probably , you know , at the basic level at then , about $500 . And yet they spent $10,000 on something that you know that was just going to be burnt . And I just I've struggled ever since to try and understand the mentality behind that , because to me that money could have been used for so much good in memory of that person .

Mark 29:07

Yeah , well , but when you think about it , every single part of detail is part of that memory . You think about a wedding . You know , all this decoration in the hotel costs you I don't know , $8-10 grand . It's just for that memory , for the night , (R: Right) , and after that most of them will be thrown away anyway . (R: Yeah , true . ) So when you think it that way , yeah , it's just about how , like what sort of value you see in the funeral .

Robyn 29:40

Right .

Mark 29:42

If your value is to create that lasting memory , then , yeah , there's no , no such thing as expensive or cheap . You know , everything is just worth it .

The Rebecca Jane Foundation Partnership

Mark 29:55

Even they spend ten thousand on a , on a , to burn . We have people um crafting a ferrari on their headstone , (R: right) , yeah , it's just a personal preference .

Robyn 30:10

Yeah , it's that link to what was important to them too .

Mark 30:13

Yeah , it's like anything else in life your diamond ring , your mobile , your personalised mobile phone , your personalised car . You know it's the value you're trying to create .

Robyn 30:25

Right , right .

Mark 30:26

Yeah .

Robyn 30:27

So one of the things I always ask people is what is your why ? Why do you do ? I know you fell into this kind of but why ? Obviously you had the choice not to do it . Why do you do ? What is your passion in your business ?

Mark 30:45

Yeah , oh , why do I do the business ? Yeah Well , I'm just a very ordinary guy . I run a business so that I can support my family , right , and to serve the customer . Yeah , yeah , and well , you know , this is the journey of my career .

Robyn 31:11

Right .

Mark 31:11

You know , I come out first grad from uni and this is my , is the journey of my career , right , you know I come out first grad from uni and this is my first job .

Mark 31:16

I I haven't had a single job interview in my life (R: wow) yeah , so I don't know whether it's fortunate or unfortunate , but um , that's it . You know , and throughout all these years I accumulate a lot of knowledge and experience in the funeral industry , not just locally . I attend international conferences about funeral industry , how cemeteries are run overseas , how cemeteries are run overseas , different kinds of chemicals and supplies you use to conduct a funeral , how to work on bodies . So , yeah , I accumulated a lot of knowledge and now I can easily talk to different people about all these post-life issues .

Mark 32:11

(R: Right) yeah , it's interesting that people, like ordinary people, know so little about this area .

Robyn 32:22

I know , hence the reason for the podcast .

Mark 32:26

Yeah , they do have their imagination , they do have their thinking , but most often you come back with a no , (R: right) , yeah . So at the end they can only follow what's the standard , which is pretty boring and yeah , there's not much value in it . (R: Sure , sure) , yeah . When we say value , we say we're trying to achieve family's imagination , we make it true .

Robyn 33:00

And it's emotional value , isn't it as well as financial value , it's emotional value of what you do for that person .

Robyn 33:10

ell I'd like to tell people a little bit about and I'm actually not quite sure now how I actually connected with you in the first place , but I invited you to the launch of the Rebecca Jane Foundation and , for those listening overseas , the Rebecca Jane Foundation is a charity in Australia that I founded in 2018 .

Robyn 33:32

And we help families who are in financial crisis to be able to have a simple but beautiful farewell for their baby , and on the launch night that I had invited Mark to , he came up to me and he said "Robyn , I would like to donate all the coffins for the babies to be able to do it . And that has carried on for the last nearly seven years now , where in metropolitan Melbourne and where you can , and even in Adelaide now you know , you supply the coffins for us , which has saved us such an immense amount of money . And then your wife , Jenny , came on board as our note taker for our board meetings and she was on there for a couple of years , and so we've had this beautiful journey and friendship develop over the last seven years , where it all came from a simple sentence of "Robyn , I would like to donate the coffins for your babies .

Mark 34:37

It's my pleasure to do that , yeah .

Robyn 34:40

It's just amazing . Last night I was talking to one of our board members , Ashley , and when I told her that I was going to be talking to Mark today , she said to me "oh , you're not going to tell the story , are you ? And I said I'm sorry , but I have to tell the story . So , uh , when uh , Mark and Ashley and I had to meet , we met actually at uh Mark's uh warehouse and you know , I forget because I've worked in this industry for 23 years and I forget that not everybody's used to seeing racks and racks of coffins and all that sort of stuff and poor Ashley's face when she walked in . Not only was it overwhelming that there were all these coffins there , but one of the range was called Ashley and she said and I just had to get out of there , you know and I , you know we laugh about it now because we tell everyone who wants to come on the board uh , you know , as an observer or or whatever they role they are, we always tell that story because I think it humanises that, you know , while we work in it and we're all very comfortable with it , people from outside the industry and Ashley comes from an accounting type background and you know she's the company secretary of the foundation, she's also my niece , I must add , but she's the policies and procedures and all that sort of person . When I first talked to her about starting the foundation , she said where is all this written down ? And I said it's not , it's all in my head . She said right , we've got to put it down . And so you know she's been while, you know , while it was my brainchild , she's actually been the practical person behind it , but of course she's not in the industry and you forget that not everybody's comfortable with being around a coffin .

Robyn 36:39

ou know I don't think we kind of like . I know there's been some and I've certainly seen some on the internet and stuff where people have actually , I sent one through recently to a friend and someone had sort of shaped the coffin to be a seat , so it was , you know , at their desk and it was going to be eventually , you know , flattened out .

Mark 37:03

Yeah , I totally feel that . Yeah , I remember when I first attended the Embalmers Association conference . It's a three-day conference . They have talks , they have product introduction section , they have practical . They actually use body donated to conduct a certain practical section . Wow , while I was very fresh , I'm not in that area . The first conference is really a challenge for me because they have morning session as a practical session and during all their lunchtime they talk about oh , can you remember how they cut off that artery and all that thing ? And I just couldn't remember how I finished that lunch .

Robyn 38:01

That's right and that's you know , when I used to train funeral celebrants and we would do a live-in at a private place , because I said we can't go to a conference centre where there's other people there when we're sitting , you know , over dinner talking about funerals and all that sort of stuff . Like people sitting next to you do not want to know that sort of stuff when they're enjoying their dinner .

Mark 38:23

But then after a few years I realised you know what . What is being professional , being professional is

Emotional Resilience in the Industry

Mark 38:31

you really own that passion about what you're doing . It doesn't matter what it is , you just love your product , you just love your skills . You just hunger for extra knowledge within the job you're doing . You always like 100% focus on what you're doing without noticing oh , it might feel awkward for people around us .

Robyn 39:00

Great , and I'm sure you know people listening in when we have lunch together must kind of think , oh , they're a bit weird , but you know , that's okay , I can deal with that . So what about you now ? Do you now have any , you know ? Have you decided whether you want to be buried or cremated , and has working with coffins made you choose one for yourself ?

Mark 39:24

That's a very interesting question . Um , yeah , I haven't really thought about that interestingly , but I know that I will love to be together with my wife no matter how and where .

Robyn 39:44

Yep .

Mark 39:46

Yeah , so I'll leave the ball on her ground . Whatever she wants to do , I'll just follow .

Robyn 39:53

Right right , (M: yeah) . What do you think are some of the biggest challenges you face in your work ?

Mark 40:01

I guess to find good worker , good employees .

Robyn 40:07

Mm-hmm .

Mark 40:08

Yeah , always a challenge here , not what people don't understand this industry enough , (R: right)

Mark 40:18

So any decent working person , it's quite hard to get them into the industry, but on the other hand you don't want anyone that too fresh , because it takes a lot of um , emotional preparation and you know it's very particular, y ou do need to learn for a while and nowadays you know you just don't want to, the worst thing is you invest six to nine months of your time to train someone and they decide well , you know it's still not for me , and they decide to leave . You know it's just yeah it's very painful yeah .

Robyn 41:04

So how do you stay emotionally resilient and maintain a healthy work balance in this field ? Well , four kids will do it for you , I guess .

Mark 41:15

It's mainly the two dogs . The kids are grown up now they have their own things to do, I'm just being the driver . Well , I'm generally quite happy with the working environment . Yeah , I deal with a lot of independent funeral homes only . (R: Yes) , so , unlike the corporate , you know , this is the real people , real family running a small , humble business .

Robyn 41:44

Families , looking after families , right ?

Mark 41:46

Exactly , yeah , you can talk to , you can relate and you know you go there , you know them by name . It's always a good laugh and you know , yeah , that's actually kept me , yeah , quite healthy that way . Yeah .

Robyn 42:02

So do you have any thoughts about where you think ? Like you know , future technology is going to go in the way we remember and honour our loved ones .

Mark 42:16

Yeah , well , before we go to that , I think people need to have a good think about what is the real values of memorise their loved ones . If they can't sort this out ? There's a lot of technology out there , yeah , and I've seen a lot of new products in in the last decade in around this funeral industry

Robyn 42:49 Mark 42:51

But I think they are missing their targets , (R:right) , yeah , if you can't find out the true values of memorising your loved one , then all this product is just a gimmick .

Mark 43:06

None of them will work , because these values unless it's hard to describe , this value is buried in most of our hearts . We can't describe what it is , but we know it's right or wrong .

Robyn 43:21

Right .

Mark 43:22

You either hit it or miss it . So I see a lot of products, you know they shoot ashes like fireworks and you know they make it into a pot plant and they soak it into water and freeze or nitrogen or this and that yeah , well , a lot of this product coming from marketing people . They will choose one marketing slogan or gimmicks like 'environmental friendly' , let's say .

Mark 44:03

They will take only that and trying to put into their product and invent something that suitable to fit into the gimmick , but it's it's not actually touching the value of it . (R: Yeah , yeah) , yeah . So I come across a lot of new products , but so far only a handful of it I think it will really work , (R: will go) , it will connect to the main like the core values of

Rapid-Fire Questions to Close

Mark 44:37

what a funeral should be like .

Robyn 44:39

Yeah , good note to finish this section on .

Robyn 44:49

To wrap up our sessions , as a big fan of the Actors Studio , I'm going to take a leaf from their book and ask a series of questions to each of our guests . So , Mark , what is your favourite word and why ?

Mark 45:03

Um Love and why ? Love is like a reactor of a nuclear plant . This is what keeps everything going .

Robyn 45:20

Beautiful .

Robyn 45:22

What is the thing that you are most grateful for in your life ?

Mark 45:28

My family . Yeah , it's, you know we're nothing special than any other family in Australia , but then yeah also , this is like what it keeps me going .

Robyn 45:45

Right . If you could work in any other role rather than what you do now , what would it be ?

Mark 45:57

A taxi driver .

Robyn 46:00

A taxi driver . Why ?

Mark 46:04

Why ? Because I don't know . Maybe you know I like , I love driving , but you know , when I got stressed , there are a couple of times that I got really stressed out and I wanted to just , you know , leave everything and just drive by my own to somewhere , but I couldn't pick a destination . Right , I wanted , you know , just make a three-hour drive to somewhere , but I couldn't pick a destination . So , yeah , taxi driver , someone tell me where to go , and I quite enjoy the drive .

Robyn 46:44

What is the sound that you love the most ?

Mark 46:47

Oh , it's strange , I actually prefer silence .

Robyn 46:52

Okay , perfect answer , perfect answer . If you could have dinner with one person , living or dead , who would it be ?

Mark 47:01

Hmm , that's another interesting one , Jesus .

Robyn 47:09

Okay .

Mark 47:10

Yeah , there's still a lot of unanswered questions in the world . But you know , if I need to pick someone that would answer the question , yeah , I think He's quite reliable in that way ,

Robyn 47:25

What do you think is the most important lesson you've learned in your life so far ?

Mark 47:31

To run a business .

Robyn 47:36

And directly from the actor's studio . If there is heaven , what would you want God to say to you when you're met at the pearly gates ?

Mark 47:45

Oh , to talk to me ? mm-hmm , how many more people are you prepare to bring with ?

Robyn 47:56

How many people you're prepared to bring with with you .

Mark 47:59

Yeah

Robyn 48:00

Right , uh , thanks so much for your time Mark Sui . So what can I call you the eternal bed supplier ? A s we wrap up this podcast . (M: Yeah) . I f you have a question you would like to ask or any other related occupation you'd like to learn about , please drop an email to ask@ ladyofdeath . com . au and we'll look at possibly doing a podcast with the questions that you've always wanted to know but never knew or were game enough to ask . Sorry , did you want to say something ?

Mark 48:34

Unfortunately there is no end of financial year sale for this kind of bed .

Robyn 48:38

Right !

Robyn 48:43

This is Robyn O'Connell , the Lady of Death , whose philosophy is organising your final farewell is not about wanting to die . It's about wanting to reflect who you really are in your goodbye . Thanks , Talk to you next time .