EP 5 | Healing Against the Odds with John Buckland

Meet John Buckland – The Man Behind the Science

With over two decades of experience spanning elite sport, medical science, and advanced nutrition, John Buckland is the go-to expert for those ready to take control of their health and performance. From cancer recovery to athletic peak, John uses the life-changing power of peptides, nutrition and movement to deliver targeted, personalized strategies that get real results. He’s worked with Olympic champions, special forces operatives and individuals battling chronic illness - helping each one rebuild from the inside out. 

In this episode, we dive into the science behind peptides, who they’re for and how they can transform the way you feel, move and perform (and so much more!) Join us for a conversation about resilience, recovery and rewriting your health story. 

And if you'd like to connect with John, you can find him on Instagram @johnbucklandcoaching or @ministryofiron

If you loved this episode, it would mean the world if you’d take a moment to subscribe, leave a review, or share it with someone who needs to hear this. Your support helps this podcast reach more people who are ready to take control of their health and start thriving.

You are stronger than you think, healing is possible, and we'll be here every step of the way. Until next time—take care and keep going.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Katie: Welcome back to the Healing Chronicles podcast. Today's episode is a special one and honestly, a little bit emotional for me too.

[00:00:07] Amanda: We are joined today by someone who's not just an expert in health and transformation, but someone who's walked through the fire and rebuilt their life from the ground up.

[00:00:16] Katie: John is my coach. He's the reason I made it. Through bodybuilding preps with Crohn's disease, photo shoots, flareups and mindset meltdowns. And today he's here to share his. Story of overcoming kidney failure, heart disease, and coming back stronger to win bodybuilding competitions, and help hundreds of others heal too.

[00:00:37] Amanda: So if you've ever felt like your body is broken or that healing isn't possible for you, this episode will change your perspective. We talk peptides, resistance training, mindset, PCOS, chronic illness, and everything in between.

 Katie: It's raw, it's real, and it's proof that your diagnosis is not your destiny.

 Amanda: So how did you meet originally? 

[00:01:02] John: originally I was a, a coach for bodybuilding. Uh, when I was. When I first met Katie, and she contacted me through a friend who I'd done work with. So I, at that time I was working with the military and we were teaching the military, physical trainers how to be better trainers and work with operatives that are going out to conflict zones, that kind of stuff.

So we worked with those guys to improve their strength, physical performance, and they could then teach these guys how to, be better soldiers realistically. And this was with Navy and all the way through to special forces. And it included things like nutrition. Uh, and it was, it was good because we ended up going onto their, sort of syllabus and we started teaching the military, as their sole provider.

And at that point we were also inviting. Civilians onto our courses where I've got clearance, come onto the course and then also learn similar things. And I think through one of those guys that came on the course, who knew Katie, he referred Katie to me for her goals. And then we started speaking and became Katie's personal trainer, sort of coach, uh, for her endeavors in bodybuilding and bikini.

So, and that's where it began. I went down to Essex and met her there, and we, we sort of struck it off and then it began from that point. So it's going back quite a long way. 

[00:02:21] Katie: Many moons... Wow. 

[00:02:25] John: Yeah, 

[00:02:26] Katie: Amanda was in the army for a while. 

[00:02:29] Amanda: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's interesting how it's like all of our stories are intertwining somehow.

[00:02:37] John: I must say I really enjoyed working with the military. Um, it's a very different level of, uh, interaction and it's, for me being there for such a long time, I was there for quite a number of years and learning the way the guys operate, uh, it became like a family going back there every so often.

'cause I was doing repeat courses, so everything had like a level, there's a level one strength and conditioning and so on. Uh, we'd go back to all the bases, some abroad and see the same guys. And it was like a really nice family environment as well. So it was nice to go back and be welcomed and feel part of the team to be fair.

So, it was a really good learning experience and obviously you end up working with a lot of people. And even today, I think, uh, I was contacted by a guy who, uh, I did a co a nutrition course with in 2006 and he recalled me from that. Course, and we're gonna do some more work with him now. So now he's in the, the role of being a, a chief in his department.

Um, yeah, he wants me back again. So, um, clearly I was memorable then, so, but it's a really nice way of looking back at some of the influences you can have on people and pay it forward. So it's, it's kind, he, he managed, managed to affect quite a lot of lives, which has been really nice. 

[00:03:53] Amanda: The, um, brotherhood of the military is like no other.

[00:03:58] John: Yeah, 

[00:03:58] Amanda: yeah. That I've experienced. 

[00:04:00] John: Yeah. It's, it is very interesting and, um, it's a very strong bond. And also working with guys, I think that's so important for those guys to, to have that. Um, because I worked in the areas of, uh, soldiers coming back from conflict zones who'd been injured severely. So they had, they'd lost limbs and there was a special, place where they would go for rehabilitation, both physically and mentally after their, their, uh, injuries.

And that was a really nice place to work as well. So, uh, because you learn a lot about the human condition, and sometimes understanding the difference between, uh, a successful, recovery and one that isn't quite successful is very interesting. And what makes the difference between those two, those two situations.

So there's a lot of learning going on from my perspective. 

[00:04:47] Amanda: Yeah, that's okay. That's something that I'm super interested in hearing more about. Um, and maybe kind of comparing notes on your experience with that kind of, setting versus I. My experience with the Canadian military would be interesting to compare the two.

[00:05:04] John: Yeah, yeah. I think, um, but you learn personally from it as well, so, um, when I was working with the guys that had the low limb injuries, they'd lost a leg. you get things like phantom limb pain, even though the limb isn't there, it's still painful. The nervous system is thinking it's still there.

So we do work with, um, putting a leg into a, a box with a mirror in it. So the brain sees two legs because the image is reflected. So the brain sees that leg and then the pain dissipates. It feels there's a whole process that goes into that. But the end result is that, that person feels that they can deal with the pain because the leg is still there.

So they can have itchy legs or an itchy leg that isn't actually present. So when they see the leg in the mirror, they can scratch that leg and it relieves the itch that isn't really there. It's a psychological neurological itch, and it's really interesting how that affects the way the brain operates.

And then years down the road, I tore my bicep off. Um, power lifting was doing strongman, and uh, obviously I had it reattached. And then to train my bicep, I would use the mirror technique because I couldn't use the, the arm was in a sling, but so I didn't lose muscle mass. In the same way I would do by being immobilized.

I would train the other arm but use a mirror and my brain would understand that they're both being used. It's so interesting. So those kind of like learning wild. Yeah, it's, the brain's very interesting when it comes to like applying techniques to help people recover. and that was one of the really interesting ones that we found was, uh, the brain's very smart, but we can use the way it sees things to be a benefit by sort of tricking it slightly.

So that was a really nice outcome. So, um, yeah, you learn personally from that and they can use it further down the line even for your own benefit as well, which is what I did. 

[00:06:47] Amanda: That's, that's insane. Okay. Let's go back to your journey.

Okay. And start at the beginning. when you were diagnosed with. Kidney failure and heart disease. 

[00:07:01] John: Yeah. So it was a place where I was heavily into bodybuilding and I was pushing my weight up as far as I could go with it because in the off season for bodybuilders, when you are competitive, when we are talking about an extreme sport, so I just wanted to separate out the fact that the bodybuilding lifestyle is.

In, in most cases a healthy way of living. Um, but when you become to a competitive level in even most sports, it becomes unhealthy because you are pushing the boundaries all of the time. And for someone competing in bodybuilding, you are pushing consistently and you are pushing against the body's will to, to do what it wants to do.

Homeostasis is not something you're looking for, and health isn't the main goal. It's being as big as possible. So at that point, I'm pushing my weight up, eating lots of food, and. At that point, you start to like develop things like sleep apnea so you don't breathe properly 'cause your necks big and you're really heavy.

Um, and you are expecting to be uncomfortable because walking around with an extra mass on your body is never great. but it's one of the objectives of getting more muscular. and then you'd go through a pro process of then dieting down to get into a competition, uh, appearance, through changing the way you eat and a little bit of training.

So with that in mind, the desire to push hard and put the feelings to one side is great in most cases, but in a lot of cases you are ignoring some of the signals your body is telling you, which is what I did. So I reached a, a very high body weight and my body was unhappy with it. So, without Really understanding.

I was doing my blood work, so I was doing blood work and blood markers regularly and everything was in a good place. But then within a, a sp space of three months, my kidney function dropped, from a normal range of an EGFR of 90, uh, to about 30. So it dropped significantly, which is now is renal failure.

When I was diagnosed with that there was also other tests done at the same time, and they then came back and said to me, you've also got heart failure. and it's severe heart failure, which is diagnosed as an ejection fraction, which is most of our, Our left ventricle fills with blood and you pump out with the squeeze of the heart, you pump out around 70% of that blood.

So there's original residual part of blood left in your, in that chamber of your heart. Um, mine was pumping out like 32% rather than 70. So it's basically heart failure. So, uh, at that point is because the load I've been putting in my body was too much. It was just like we've had enough and, things started to break down.

 but at that point when I was feeling those things. My mindset was to push on, push hard, and you just do that as an athlete. Um, so it's masked by that desire to be the best, and at that point, diagnosis comes in and it just changes your life in an instant. so, you know, when that happens, it's like you readjust everything.

And I think at that point you have a serious decision to make, which you have to process for a while. and at that point it was looking at where my outcome would be if I was to continue doing what I was doing and realistically without any sort of change in lifestyle. It was around six years I had left.

So I be around, which is not a lot of time. So you then have to make a decision about what you're gonna do with that knowledge and, and you either change or you don't. So, um, it was interesting, but I think the situation. Allowed me to discover much more about my state of mind, my mental health, and also as in like the strength of a personality where, you know, I could redirect that ability to push hard into working to get better.

 and in spite of lots of information to the contrary, I believed I was gonna change it and, and basically re reverse it. And that was part stubbornness 'cause I wouldn't let go. And, um, and yeah, that's what I did. So it was a big shock. It's a big shock of a, of an event. You know, you, you just sometimes believe what you're doing is gonna be okay and it won't happen to you kind of thing, but it does if you're not doing the right thing.

So yeah, that was a diagnosis, gave me sort of six years to live and, uh, I set about immediately changing things, 

[00:11:28] Amanda: That I can relate to that so much in the way that you described that, your mission was to be the best to put on size, to push yourself past your comfort zone. And I could relate to that so much in the military mentality because they're, you're taught the same and you're taught to train past the pain and you're taught to keep going even though you wanna stop and ignore those signals from your body.

And that's so interesting to to hear you describe it because it just puts me back to where I was when I was training and ultimately that mindset of pushing yourself past the signals from the body is what ended me in the same situation with a chronic illness. Right? 

[00:12:16] John: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, um, there's a, a.

Sort of ideology or, or principle, which is, you know, 24 7, there's no rest days. Keep pushing. And if you don't work hard, you know, you're not gonna make it. But there's also that time where you have to recover, you have to take breaks, you know, and that is considered to be possibly a weakness. Now in some of the things you see on Instagram and the fitness industry, particularly if you're not, if someone was, someone's gonna outwork you.

You know, you've gotta be the hardest person working work, hardest working person in the room. And to a point, you do have to work hard. But there has to be balance. And I think we can get very caught up. If you're at that mindset where you can push hard, then you, you can go astray with that a little bit and it leads to a breakdown of your health, which is what, you know, that happened.

[00:13:05] Amanda: Yeah. and then I think for a lot of people, when we get to that breakdown point, We, we look at things in a very black and white way where we're either achieving and we're progressing or we're not. Yeah. And it can be like we spoke about in our last episode, talking about this all or nothing mindset where we're just, you're either winning or Yeah.

Your old news, you're forgotten. 

[00:13:30] John: Yeah. I think we've got this very basic duality. It's like those two things, it's on or off and there's so much in between and that's the place where you have to spend some more time thinking about what is really important. uh, it is so easy to do particularly, and this is why I think the message that we send out to people about even what success is, where that lies is so important as well.

And it's all contextual as well. So, you know, it is for some people, very easy to push past the pain barrier, keep pushing. but I do find that there's a. Also head in the sand kind of attitude for people where, you know, when I, I get clients on board now, I'll say to them, you know, let's do a blood test.

That's the first thing I ask you to do is so I can see what's happening under the hood. Even for people who aren't in sport, they may be regular people. I'm like, let's do a blood test. Let's see where things are. And a lot of people don't wanna understand. They don't wanna see it. They don't wanna know.

Yeah. So there's that kind of like, I don't want to understand where I'm at because I'm gonna have to change. Because change is difficult. And if you're comfortable with what you are doing, even though that may be uncomfortable, it's familiar behavior where you feel comfortable in it. So you regress to that familiar behavior because you've always done it and you don't to.

Be told by a situation or a person to change because that's very difficult. And then it's, that's growth, which is a different kind of growth, which is very hard. 

[00:14:52] Katie: Mm-hmm. so you've gone from being chronically unwell. So essentially, well you won a bodybuilding show, right? 

[00:14:58] John: Yeah. 

[00:14:59] Katie: So what do you think really helped you shift out of the dysfunction and like back into health?

[00:15:06] John: Well, firstly I had no choice. It was like, this is where I think the word rock bottom is so important because the, you've got let nowhere left to go. You make a decision, either be a victim or you can change. and that. Takes a significant amount of effort and, and bravery as well. 'cause you have to accept the fact that you've done this.

It's like the acceptance of saying, why did this occur? And many people would ask me, why did this happen? And it's, was it bodybuilding? Was it eating too much food? And give me a reason. And it's, it's, it's always multilayered. There's a number of things that happened. So, you know, my personal. Perspective on achievement and my addictive personality.

They're all parts to play in this whole ball game, but you get to that place where you have no choice, you change or where you don't make it. So it was like, I'm gonna make it. I've got other things that are more important to live for. And um, that's what was the challenge is like, I, I need to turn this around.

And I'm actually quite a, I experiment with things anyway. I'm a very curious guy. So I had another, another job to do. It was a task where I was like, I'm gonna reverse this kidney failure and I'm gonna do everything I can to do it. And that became my mission. So I, I switched missions to that. And I find that when athletes particularly get injured, they're like, oh, they see a negative in that I'm gonna lose my muscle mass, or I'm not gonna perform as well, or I'm not gonna compete.

And it's like. Yeah, but you have a new mission, which is now to get healthy and to fix yourself. So now your training protocols, the way you see things, changes for the end goal. The end goal is now different. It isn't to win your race or to win your show, it's now to get better. 

And if you can make that change and go, now my goal is different, you can apply the same intensity and level of performance to that goal. I think that is what helped me push through from that situation and ending up reversing, the process. So, but it didn't come without struggles because people will tell you it's not possible.

[00:17:12] Amanda: I was gonna say you were probably faced with people in that, in that scenario where they told you that you weren't. Yeah. Going to get better. 

[00:17:20] John: Yeah. It is an impossibility. the level of kidney failure you have is irreversible, so you're gonna basically get smaller and weaker and you're gonna lose the things that you have over time.

And that's basically it. and there was plenty of discussions I had with consultants, uh, in the renal department, nephrologists. We had conversations and, we, we argued quite considerably about various topics. And at the end of the day, my response to them was, these are my kidneys, not yours, and I'm gonna do all the things that I've learned to do research wise, to do everything I possibly can.

And it's like, make it's make or break I now have learned, I spent time researching. 'cause deep down I'm a geek and I spent I met my head, head in books, learning as much as I could with all the most recent research about what to do and how things would work. And what I found at that point in time was that almost all medicines, which we can talk about as we go through this, a license for one purpose, but they're never used for that purpose.

They're used for something else. So it is such a broad spectrum. So there's a medicine made, this is what it's gonna be used for. And in fact, the company has then released that medicine and it has a completely different application in practical sense. And through research I found that there were many me medicines like that.

And some of those things I applied to my situation, which the consultants didn't know about because they're, they're specialists in that area. So a nephrologist is gonna be nephrology, whereas. Another person who works in, you know, uh, maybe sexual dysfunction is gonna be sexual dysfunction. And some of the medicines like Cialis was pivotal in me regaining my kidney function.

But yet, and, and nephrologist would not understand that at all and has no scope to go research that either. So they were learning new things at the same time, which was quite interesting. Um, so it was growth all round. 

[00:19:15] Katie: And then you get some people who consultants that just had absolutely no idea. 

[00:19:21] John: None. No.

And they'd sitting Google stuff in front of me. So I'm, I'm saying, they're saying, you gotta stop taking that. I'm like, why? Well, it's a herb and herbs will ruin your kidneys. What is it I'm taking? And they had no idea what it was. They're Googling it and I'm like, you spelt it wrong. It's like, it's not, I'm, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.

These are my kidneys anyway. So it was very interesting. So, um, but we struck a balance at, at points where they could see my, results getting better. And they were like, okay. Um, yeah, well we, I said, you can be part of the journey with me or you can, we can argue the whole time. It's entirely up to you. So we got on board with stuff and you know, we can be experimental together and that's what actually up happening.

So it was kind of cool in the end. So 

[00:20:03] Katie: It was super emotional when you were on your bodybuilding show too. 

[00:20:07] John: Yeah. Um, it was interesting because, um, it's something I wanted to do and I thought that was never gonna happen when this obviously diagnosis happened. It was like, there's no way that I'm gonna be able to, be in the condition I need to be competitive.

There's a whole section of the dieting phase where you drop body water through water regulation and um, sodium cycling and this kind of stuff, which is very heavy on the kidneys and that clearly would not be a, a practicality for me in that state. So, I thought that that life was over for me. So to be able to get back and do that was really interesting.

And the one thing, and usually as an athlete, you think about your end result, your goal and set targets for yourself. And realistically, the whole situation of going through this, this show and going to the, to the championships and stuff was when you win your, your, your category, you get interviewed at the end.

And the main purpose for me was to be, not win, to win the show, but win. So I could stand in front of the microphone and explain my journey to everybody that was watching. That was the purpose. So it was kind of like a secondary thing to win, but winning gave me that, that. Ability to speak, which I took,

So, yeah, it was an interesting, uh, scenario, but it was great. So yeah, I was very happy with that. 

[00:21:28] Amanda: in the moment of receiving your diagnosis and receiving that prognosis of, if you keep going this way, you have six years to live, what was the guidance that you were given from the doctors and the specialists in that moment as far as what you needed to do and what your life would look like moving forward?

[00:21:50] John: It was, that was very interesting. And it's a very, it, it can be quite demotivating because what we find in, in this, uh, our medical industry over here, they're, we're very, they're very cautious. So what happens is the advice that is given is always the worst case scenario because they've covered all bases.

So it means that if something doesn't go well and you do end up in the wrong place and you die, for example, they've covered that base. So it's like, you know, we are gonna give you this treatment, or we're gonna off offer you this, sort of solution. And, but it comes with these risks and it may or may not work sort of thing.

So what unfortunately happened in the first instance was I was given the wrong, advice and given. I, I, at that point in time, I was drinking like five liters of water a day, um, as a, as a large guy. And they said, we need, now, they didn't tell me about a water restriction at all. They didn't mention that.

They just said, we don't want you to eat no more than two grams of salt a day. So that was al already. Eating two grams of salt a day means I have to like. Look at all of my nutrition completely and remove sodium in every sort of given place. so the meals that I was prepping for the week had to be completely changed.

Uh, so my, my diet changed entirely. there are foods that you have to eliminate because they are stressful for your kidneys and some foods you can put in because they're great for your kidneys. But I wasn't told about the water restrictions, so I carried on drinking five liters of water. And then, I was given the wrong dose of diuretics, um, which ended me back up in hospital, super dehydrated, 

And my, my kidneys were worse for it. So, um, what they'd, they'd kind of done is just look at the, the textbook rather than looking at a guy with my statistics. And looking at my needs specifically, they went, this is what we're gonna do. This is what the, the guidance is, off we go. Um, so I ended up drinking.

There was no more than one liter of water a day and no more than two grams of sodium a day, which was a massive change. That was really difficult. 'cause after drinking five liters a day to drinking one was very difficult. So, I took it upon myself to weigh myself before I trained. In the gym and weigh myself afterwards so I could see what weight I'd lost through water, uh, loss from sweating and perspiring.

Um, so on the days that I trained harder, which wasn't that hard at that time, 'cause we have to reduce stress. if I was training a large body group, I could drink more water that day because I'd sweated more out, which actually helped me because not drinking was very difficult, um, because you, you become thirsty.

Um, so that, that diagnosis was, was what it was. But then the advice I was given was not specific for me and it, and I ended up in the hospital a couple of times because of it, and then they re revised it and said, then why are you taking this? Who thought to do this? It was you last week, so and so on.

Yeah, it's you mate. Um, so yeah, they sort of, yeah, they decided to pay a bit more attention because I, I was coming with questions as well, which, uh, I wanted answers to. Um, and then we, we got it right. So, that was the, the initial treatment was we're gonna do this and we're gonna manage your condition, but it is gonna get worse.

And eventually you'll be on dialysis and then it's kind of end of life and you're not gonna get a kidney 'cause you're too old. It's highly unlikely. And even in that place, you may get a kidney. It can last between five and 10 years if you're lucky. It all depends. But then that was never an option for me anyway, because.

In my mind, realistically with my my age, I was like, I don't really think I deserve a kidney either. So if as a younger person, serious, honestly, it is like, yeah, at that time I was 52 years old and it's self-inflicted to a point. So I was being very pragmatic about it. And if as a younger person, a 23-year-old who needs to have a kidney, I would prefer those guys to get it rather than me.

So, you know, that that wasn't an option. So me doing the right thing and fixing myself was the option I had, and that was the way I was gonna go and not even think about that. and then most of the things that I did was research myself. And that's where you take responsibility for your own health and not leave it in someone else's hands.

And that's where the, the healing came from. 

[00:26:03] Amanda: Was there a moment, was there a moment before that kicked in? Like were you, are you a stubborn enough person that you were like, absolutely not, and just went, you know, full into I'm gonna learn about this? Or was there a moment where you bought into that belief of that?

Very low hope kind of prognosis. Yeah. 

[00:26:27] John: There was, there were moments where you would think, this is it. I'm, I'm done for. But there were very small moments. 'cause as you mentioned, I'm, I think there's a stubbornness in anybody who's been in the military or work that way and has that desire to be the best and push hard.

There's a stubbornness that you, you have, and I discussed like the, the coming to terms with possibly dying and what that meant and how to approach it. Um, because most people are scared of that kind of thing. So it was like, well, I, I need to start thinking about what this means and how I'm gonna describe this to other people.

And when I spoke to my clients about my situation, it was interesting how people around me responded to me. Having this situation, I may have six years to live. And watching that was very interesting. So I wanted to understand how to manage, how I was feeling, but also the people around me, how they were feeling about the information I had to tell them.

Because originally I wasn't gonna tell my clients anything because I had to go to the hospital so often it was affecting my, my work with them. Mm-hmm. So I didn't wanna give them a boohoo story. I wanted to give them a success story where I changed it around. But it ended up me being completely transparent, which was really good 'cause it helped me on my journey, it helped on theirs.

And I learned how to deal with their emotions as well as my own. Um, but I learned to sort of understand that. But there was still a stubborn streak in me, which I would not let go of. I would, I decided I'm not gonna let go of it because it's what I've got left. It's all I've got left and I'm gonna use this and it's gonna drive me to do all the things I need to do.

So that stubbornness was really, was really useful. It probably put me in the, in the first time round, but then I used it as a positive.when I had a different focus. So yeah, there's to be said about stubbornness in the right place at the right time. Yeah. So 

[00:28:12] Amanda: yeah, same stubbornness, but your trajectory changed you.

Yeah, completely. You 

[00:28:17] John: just switched directions. Yeah. And as I said before, I'm, I'm like, I like experimented with things all my life with the way that things would affect me. So I'd see things in clinical research and go, that sounds great, but what is it like in practice? So I would use things and go, right, I'm gonna try that and see what responses I get physically or from, uh, a body fat perspective, or is it gonna improve my, my vo O2 max?

That kind of stuff. So I've always been experimenting. So I decided to be, disassociate slightly and go, you know what? I'm gonna be my experiment and I'm gonna do this, and we are gonna see what happens. And then I can apply that stubbornness to my, uh, disassociated sort of per perspective of we're gonna fix this and yeah.

This is what we're gonna do. But there were moments. Um, I think one of the things that I found as I was researching, you see the clinical trials that have happened before and for a man, when you have kidney failure, what we see in kidney failure in, uh, adolescence, the rate of decline is very similar.

Until guys and girls get to adolescence and obviously boys start producing testosterone. And testosterone directly relates to the decline in, in kidney function. So your testosterone will decline naturally as you're going through the stages. So that meant for me that I'm gonna become less masculine, I'm gonna lose my muscle mass, uh, growth hormone declines.

So things like the things that I think most guys clinging onto, which they find very interesting and very like important for them is masculinity, libido, appearance, um, and the capability physically and all of that was gonna disappear. As I went through the stages of, of kidney failure. So that was something I had to get my head around because it was likely to happen.

And if you go around and say to yourself, I'm gonna take testosterone to try and stop that happening, then what you could do in effect is increase the rate of decline. So there's a, there's a way of looking at the situation and being wise in how you can potentiate the testosterone you still have without taking exogenous testosterone and making it worse.

So I, I, I likened it to, um, when ladies go through the menopause, obviously I'm never gonna experience that, but I've, from experience ladies have said that they don't feel feminine anymore. They feel like they've lost their, their identity as being female. And I, I'd sit there and think I'm gonna lose my identity as a male because I'm losing my masculinity.

And all the things that made me, me and how other people saw me was like Big John. I didn't give myself that label, but other people did. And they see you a certain way and I'm no longer gonna be Big John. I'm gonna be small, John, I'm gonna be less muscular, John. And that kind of like psychological change is something that was a very interesting and difficult to deal with.

[00:31:05] Amanda: you just, you just spoke to that way of thinking, where at at least you were educated enough and had enough foresight to know that it's not as simple as just, okay, there's a reduction in testosterone.

Let's take some synthetic testosterone. and I think that's such a common trap that people can fall into to think of things in such a linear and dualistic way that, oh, I'm lacking in this. I'll just take some of that and, The more that I learn about nutrition and healing, recovery, all of this is, it.

It's really not that simple. It's so much more complicated. It's, and the body works in systems, not in this, um, simplistic sort of way. 

[00:31:48] John: Yeah. And there's always, there's always a, a knock on effect. You know, there's, we, our body pulses and we have, um, you know, negative feedback loops. So you do one thing, something else changes, in response to that, especially hormones as well.

So it's, um, an interesting path to understand. and there are much better ways of when you research it, as you said, when you put your mind to, being. Able to understand the information that's in front of you and then make a wise decision that's so important. And that isn't the kind of thing that we are taught by the medical professionals.

They don't have have any interest in that whatsoever. So that's on you to do that. Um, so it took a great deal of research to, to one, work out what the best steps for me were nutritionally and then lifestyle wise, training wise, and then obviously 

[00:32:37] Katie: psychologically as well. 

[00:32:38] John: Yeah, psychologically, because you know, there's people around you that want you to, I remember going out to eat with someone and it was interesting.

They got really upset that I couldn't eat the food that we were having sushi. And we asked a waitress if there was salt in the, in the rice, was it just boiled rice or sticky rice? Is there salt in it? She couldn't tell us went to find out. And there was salt in the rice, so I couldn't eat it. And that person got really upset because I couldn't eat the food and I was ruining their experience.

So I said, if I was in a wheelchair. Would you be still upset that I couldn't get into the restaurant I needed help up the stairs? She's like, of course not. Well, I'm now in a position where I have an illness and I have to work around it appropriately. So Interesting how that the psychological impact was sometimes lessened or greatened by the people around you who didn't understand.

Interesting. 

[00:33:30] Amanda: 

 people have such an interesting relationship with food and I find that they project their experience and their relationship with food onto other people. Yeah. So just that experience of. You can't eat this, therefore the experience is ruined.

[00:33:48] Amanda: Yeah. It is such an interesting Yeah. Perspective. 

[00:33:52] John: I was kind of, I was a bit gobsmacked, so that was actually coming out of that person's mouth. Mm. It was, I was taken aback, which was, I really can't believe you're saying this and that I had to go away and process that for a while. It was, it was incredible.

Yeah. 

[00:34:06] Katie: and with that said, you've worked with so many people that have or had chronic illness now, so how do you explain inflammation and dysfunction in a way that almost makes sense to the everyday person? 

[00:34:22] John: Usually I start with the way food affects you. So they're having symptoms, inflammatory symptoms, so the, the bowels aren't working or they've got joint pain, something is not right.

 and systemic inflammation that, you know, if you have, someone's got asthma, for example. Um, or even arthritis, there's those kind of situations or someone's over training, there's inflammation there as well. So it can be from a disease perspective or a, a poor nutritional perspective. And I explain that inflammation is a natural response to the environment you are placing your body in.

Whether that's eating the wrong food, training the wrong way, or as a process of aging and to a degree. And we need to reduce that inflammation through a number of protocols. And, there are some really useful ones out there which will help us to reduce inflammation really well. Um, and 

One of the things that's really interesting that cold plunges have become super popular, which athletes use consistently, which is great. So if you are competing, if you are doing high rocks or you're doing CrossFit and you are doing a number of days in a row, then that's cool. You can get into a cold plunge after your performance and reduce inflammation with the cold plunge, which is great, and you can then perform better the next day.

But while you're in training for that competition, you wanna become as strong and as powerful and muscular as possible. And getting into a cold plunge post exercise, you're trying to build some muscle and strength. Reduces your ability to be inflamed. And that inflammation is the signal for the cascade that comes afterwards to grow muscle and to get bigger and stronger.

So cold plunges, post-work workouts are really a bad idea. So it's where you apply that stuff. And we've got other things like peptides, which can reduce inflammation that don't do any of that. They don't reduce your ability to grow muscle or strength or any of that. So they work way better and way they're much easier to do with less pain than going into a cold plunge.

So I think there's understanding what it is by explaining the process of inflammation, how we get it, and then what we can do to reduce it. And again, that's lifestyle change as well. 

[00:36:32] Amanda: do you see that, whole cold plunge trend as like.

A way that people are attempting to just forgo the rest and recovery portion. Like they just wanna speed it up because nobody wants to rest. Nobody wants to prioritize recovery. 'cause that's not the fun, sexy part, right? No, 

[00:36:52] John: no, I think they want, yeah, wanna shortcut and there are things that do help you.

And, and there's no doubt that I've, I've said to guys that have gone to the CrossFit games, to, you know, coal plunge after their session because they're bruised, a battered and it does help them, but it's gotta be applied, you know, practically in the right way. Um, and out of that context, it's not that great.

So, I think that if someone has. They have cold plunge on their program because it gives them some mental fortitude that they can get into a really cold, ice bath. Then there's some benefits there, but as long as they understand what it's doing for them, and if it is for mental fortitude, you can go out into the garden and sit into a cold plunge and it's great for you, then cool, go ahead and do it.

But don't think it's gonna be great for your improving muscle mass or performance while you are developing your skill or your, performance ability. Your demonstration of your skill and your performance is one thing. Developing it in the gym or training for it is entirely different. So, um, but I think's a little bit of a, a fad and they come around every so often and people buy little pods and sit in it and Yeah.

But I think it's a challenge for people. They like to, I think humans as, as we, we need to be challenged, you know? Mm-hmm. Having a very boring rum life is quite difficult for many people and doing stuff that challenges you. Is innate in us. And I think that's another way that people find as a challenge.

And they've done something and they've achieved something by sitting in the coal plunge for a period of time. 

[00:38:15] Katie: I feel like a lot of people did that because they thought it would benefit them physically. And then it just kind of shifted into this more so mentality thing of like, I can sit in there for three minutes, like 

[00:38:29] John: Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna do this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, see how far I can go, which is pushing yourself again, but is it gonna be a benefit to someone? Probably not. Would you 

[00:38:38] Katie: say, would you say it's a benefit to someone that is dysfunctional from an inflammation perspective? Yeah. 

[00:38:46] John: Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna bring down inflammation without doubt.

Yeah. but it's gonna be peripheral, so it is gonna be that the extremities like joint and muscle rather than anything internal, you know, it's not gonna affect asthma for example, you've got underlying level of inflammation in the lung. Getting into a cold plunge will do nothing for that. So, you know, it might bring down inflammatory markers in other areas of your body, but that's, you know, not gonna do anything as a signal to certain things, but not for it.

No. Uh, systemic inflammation, it's peripheral. 

[00:39:17] Katie: And that's, I suppose, where peptides would come in, right? 

[00:39:19] John: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, things like the healing Peptide, BBC 1 57 obviously is a healing peptide, brings down inflammation really well and it's systemic, so it is gonna work everywhere. So, uh, that's not gonna affect your ability to, to grow muscle or change the way you respond to stimulus.

It's just gonna do all the stuff you want without it affecting that in a negative way. but then other people have got the built, they've had views on whether, that's appropriate or not. You know, they much mother get into a, an ice bath because it seems more natural, perhaps. 

[00:39:53] Amanda: I think that the opinions on peptide use right now are interesting because just like everything else when it comes to nutrition, science, exercise science, I feel like people like to go to extremes versus exploring nuance and appropriate setting and situation. Yeah. They like to paint something with one brush and say, this is good or this is bad.

[00:40:18] John: Yeah. I, I've had a conversation quite a few times now and I did a post on on my Instagram page and it was a lot of athletes wanna, because say natural, I wanna be a natural athlete. Can I use l-carnetine? And, and l-carnetine doesn't work orally whatsoever. It's pointless where stomach destroys it.

So using it intramuscularly with a, an injection, uh, has amazing benefits, increases VO two max increases biogenesis of mitochondria. It's a whole bunch of things that it does. It's amazing. So it's a real benefit. Uh, but it's, it's. 100% synthetic, but it's identical to the l-carnetine you find in food in your body.

So there's been this, this like, I don't wanna do that stuff because I'm not gonna be natural anymore. But then we look at creatine, which has now become like super, you know, effective and people use it all over the world. Uh, most research, you know, supplement ever, and it's completely synthetic. It's the same, it's, it's just as synthetic as l-carnetine is.

And then if someone's taken vitamin D, which tends to be made from lambs wool or sheep's wool, and affected by UVA radiation. that's not natural either. So if these guys have been taking creatine and vitamin D, for example, V three, you're not natural because you're doing other synthetic things.

It's only because the administration route is with a syringe or a needle. They feel like they're taking drugs, and that's a misunderstanding of what they're doing. You know? So I think that the idea of, uh, peptides is sometimes skewed. So you can take BPC 1 57, for example. It's way more effective if you do it subcutaneously or inject it into a muscle or even directly into a tendon, for example.

Um, it's way more effective than taking it orally. It does work orally, but nowhere near as well. But I know a lot of people would feel like less, like they're doing something non-natural if they were to take a tablet rather than have an injection. So it, it's interesting how people feel about certain things, you know, like 

[00:42:12] Katie: the goalposts just keep moving, isn't it?

Like where do you draw the line? 

[00:42:15] John: Yeah. It, it's so interesting. Yeah. and it's like you, they might have a, a pretty amazing footballer that that club has just paid a million pounds for and he hurt his ankle, he sat on the bench and they'll give him a cortisone injection and some ibuprofen and say, get on the pitch.

That's the prime example of drugs in sport. But you'd say as a natural athlete, but it's clearly not. So there's a fine line of like, the way you perceive things, uh, as to be natural or not. it's so interesting.

[00:42:42] Amanda: it's really interesting because in that situation that you just described, like a cortisol injection, whether it's for an athlete or just a person who has chronic shoulder pain or an injury, you know, that's an example of reactionary medicine.

It's you wait for the injury and then you're, using something to dull the pain or lessen the inflammation and it's okay. But do, do you think it's something to do with, like, if you're being proactive and you're choosing to say, use peptides in a proactive way to help your body, to strengthen your body, somehow that becomes, I.

Just viewed in a different way. 

[00:43:23] John: Completely. Yeah. And it's, it's really interesting because a lot of people have, like for example, you might have an issue with visceral fat and there's um, very many types of peptides, which are growth hormones, degrees to go. So these peptides will cause your pitu gland more growth hormone.

Taking exogenous growth hormone, your body's making more. You are stimulating your body to make more growth hormone, which we know declines as you get older. And we will see in some, uh, you know, older people, they get like a, a visceral fat deposition, which is the worst kind of fat you can have around your organs.

And we know that there's like different types of growth hormones to greater Togo that will work specifically on visceral fat. So you can combine, for example, BPC 1 57, bring down inflammation for that person who may be inflamed because carrying excess body fat also causes inflammation, um, from the storage of body fat.

So that's gonna help to bring that inflammation. But not only that, BPC 1 57 increases your growth hormone and receptor, sensitivity. So now the growth hormone you make naturally endogenously is gonna be more effective because BPC now is gonna make that much more productive. But if you are actually adding in another peptide, it's gonna help to reduce visceral fat.

Then you are doing two really amazing things to then make your health way better and there's literally no side effects. or you can. Not do that at all, and then try and lose the body fat by other means, which is cool. Um, but we can use what we have in front of us to make our lives much more effective and much better, live longer and live healthier.

 but then people have a, have a different view on that. So, um, but the facts still remain the same. So you, as you could say, you could take that proactively. You have a visceral fat issue. But if you take BPC 1, 5 7 on a regular basis, a very small amount of bedtime, for example, that's gonna help you to eliminate that visceral fat, increase growth, hormone sensitivity, it's gonna make you sleep better.

So all the things that we know about sleep are gonna be improved because inflammation goes down, whereas hormone sensitivity goes up, growth hormone helps you sleep and you're gonna start to heal your body in all aspects, because sleep's better. growth hormone's working more effectively. Inflammation's coming down, and.

BPC 1 5 7 has been used globally. Now I think this is where when my, my first met Katie, we were doing our show. She was competing and she had hurt her shoulder and reactively. We used BPC 1 5 7. you have to remind me what year that was, Katie. 'cause it was a while ago. And my old brain isn't functioning as well as Oh, oh.

Um, too long. It was a long time ago. Yeah. Let's not talk about how old, old we are. Um, so, uh, and then, or how old I'm, anyway, and, uh, we used BPC 1 5 7 for the shoulder. And Katie's Crohn's started to get better. So we'd work really hard to get to a place where Katie was losing body fat. But at the time she was using oral prednisolone, which we know is very difficult for body fat loss, water loss, and so on.

And because the Crohn's were starting to alleviate because of the BB 1 57. We didn't have quite enough time to get in the show condition we could have done, but at some point if we continued or started earlier, um, we could have possibly come off of be the whole, uh, prednisolone thing and achieve something different.

[00:46:45] Katie: So Yeah. And it's amazing that there's been a lot of studies since that show exactly. That in Crohn's patients, so, 

[00:46:53] John: yeah. Yeah. So it was almost like by accident, which is where most medical discoveries come from. Mm. It is why licenses, uh, for medicine get changed all the time because they're applied to a certain condition and then they realize it's actually way better at something else.

And we found that out through trial and error with the shoulder, and that's exactly what we did. So, um, and then, you know, there's lots of research in our BP 1 57 healing heart, um, cells and all sorts of stuff. It's, it's incredible. So,post, um, heart surgery and stuff, so it's, um, yeah. So anyway, we're back on peptides again, so 

[00:47:27] Katie: I feel like it's such a.

 it's such a large area, but it's also an area that is just not discussed enough in the slightest. Um, and I dunno why, 

[00:47:39] John: no, I'm not sure. I think people think it's new and there's a, a general distrust of pharmaceutical companies, especially since we've had the in incidents with a particular virus.

Um, the trust in medical companies has, has gone and in, in trust in pharmaceuticals generally is, is lacking, which is completely understandable. so o obviously I've wor I've worked in medicine for many years, but also now worked in, with health and nutrition as well. And there's a place. If it's right for both things.

and peptides bridge the gap. So again, with the, the peptide scenario, there's also, you still have to be doing the right things with your nutrition, with your sleep and all the other things. We're gonna heal our bodies. This is an additional thing we can use to be really practical and help us once we've got other things in place as well.

So it isn't just like peptides are the fix all. They're great at some things, they work in some areas, but the underlying pro process is to get everything else right with your food and nutrition first, and then they're gonna be more, everything's more effective when you are doing things right as a human would need in the first place.

[00:48:45] Katie: Mm-hmm. So, 

[00:48:47] John: yeah, 

[00:48:47] Katie: because I know, I know, and I know that you believe that, resistance training is one of the most underrated tools for preventing disease and also supporting mental health to some extent. But even when it comes to things like menopause, it's just. Again, it's just not spoken about enough.

[00:49:07] John: No. Um, I think as people get older, particularly females, they believe that they're becoming less able because they're feeling. Less able because of the menopause. So they'll lose muscle mass, bone density, and so on, and they'll feel that the, the testosterone levels dropped slightly. Uh, e progesterone disappears and you feel less capable and less like you want to go to the gym.

And then metabolic, you know, dysfunction ensues because you start to go to sarcopenia, lose muscle mass, and these are the sink holes for glucose. So this is where you're gonna store your carbohydrates. and, you know. It's gonna help you to not have the inflammation that comes from carbohydrate intakes.

They're gonna be stored effectively, muscles and liver, uh, uh, where they are used and if you have more muscle mass, but more importantly, strong muscles also store more carbohydrates they don't have to be huge. Just the different glycolytic fiber types. As you train your fiber types develop differently and the different fiber types will use more carbohydrates and store them.

So as someone moves into menopause, it's even more important to train because we know that carbohydrates and the misuse of insulin and all that sort of stuff, that's the right, that derangement, um, leads on to other issues which have now been sort of, kind of incorrectly termed Type three diabetes, which is Alzheimer's and dementia and that kind of stuff because of the effect that that.

Carbohydrates and the sugars have on the brain. So as we move into menopause, it's super important that someone trains. Mm-hmm. And you know, that's, it's, it's a real blessing, when I train elderly women, because they still make huge progress and they're still super active and they're super able. And when they start getting stronger, that's, we're reversing that aging process of muscle and they're storing carbohydrates better and everything works better.

It's great and sharper as well. There's a whole bunch, there's loads of evidence to support it. Um, but I think sometimes the gym's an intimidating place, which we need to change for, for, for people, particularly females, but it's, it's fundamental, for having a healthy life is the resistance train in some form or another, doesn't mean to be a bodybuilder.

Um, it's hilarious how people think they're gonna go to the gym and just. Olympian body builders like in three weeks or something. 

[00:51:31] Amanda: That, that still makes me laugh when I hear that and I still hear that on a regular basis. Yeah. From friends, from clients like, but well I don't wanna get bulky though. And I'm like, believe me, it's not that easy to get bulky.

In fact, it's quite hard to get bulky as a woman usually. Yeah. And, but it's so interesting that I have this kind of theory about how we've been taught as women to try to be as small as possible to try and have as low body fat, or body weight as possible. Yeah. And I think that's starting to shift now.

I have a 16-year-old daughter who has a gym membership and you know, her TikTok feed is all about like that gym life, which is um, great. I think it's fantastic that kids are starting earlier and, and learning earlier. But if I think back to when I was younger. Even though I started training at 16, my underlying goal for probably the first 20 years of my training was to be smaller.

[00:52:39] John: Yeah. 

[00:52:39] Amanda: Was to be thinner, leaner way as little as possible. And it wasn't until I hit my mid thirties that I actually changed my. My outlook on that and was like, actually, I want to weigh more. Mm-hmm. Because I want to have more muscle mass because I know what that muscle mass is going to do to protect me and my longevity in Yeah.

For the rest of my life. 

[00:53:04] John: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I think the earlier we can start, the better. I think there's, there's as much as like social media influences people sometimes in a negative way. There's some really other positives about it. Um, you know, some of the phrases like strong, not skinny are really useful because that is exactly where people should be trying to get, um, and to be strong.

Um, because being weak is dangerous, you know? Um, one of my clients who is 65, she thought she'd failed miserably at one point because she was jumping onto a, a, a block and stepping off. So doing, you know, dynamic jumps and she jumped onto the, to the block and basically slipped off of it and fell over and then rolled onto her back and then stood up.

And I was just elated, elated that she was able to roll on that she could do that and get straight back up again. Because I'm like, do you understand what's just happened? She's like, yeah, I messed it up. I said, no, you didn't. This is exactly why we're training because you are strong enough and resilient enough to fall over off like a a seven inch step, land on the ground, a roll up and stand, and you haven't broken your hip.

And you haven't broken you, you're in a really good place. And that was a really good example of how the resilience of strength training and having some strength and muscle mass and bone density so important. And I don't think she could quite understand how excited I was and why, but I was so excited that she fell over and got back up again and I said, you know, you are not gonna be that person that breaks their hip and be in that percentage of women that die in a a year later.

You're not gonna be that person. Yeah. On my watch. And um, yeah, that kind of thing really excites me. so I think, you know, the whole, um, menopausal situation, Is very also not talked about properly either. Mm-hmm. Um, I have a client at the moment who is clearly perimenopausal. We've got all the symptoms.

She is very, very depressed. really depressed and it's working to try and get our health service to work with her. She's 42 and because she's not 45, it's a massive uphill battle for her to get any support or help. so I went to the doctor's surgery with her. Uh, this week we had an appointment and even though I quoted the NICE guidelines, which is what the, in England, we go on the NICE guidelines, um, which suggests that even though blood tests may be in the right range or low, that symptoms Trump.

The blood tests. And in spite of that, they still were refusing to give her HRT, even though she clearly needs it. And they're gonna write a letter to consultant and all this kind of stuff. And it's like, how long is this gonna take? This has been three, four months already. And it's unsustainable. And interestingly enough, because I went with her and I posed as her partner because we were gonna have some obviously intimate conversations about her symptoms, the the doctor was like, well, I know why you are here.

And I'm like, why is that? Well, obviously you know her libido's low, isn't it? And I was like, yes, it is. And that's exactly what she said. And she just thought, there's one reason why I'm there, because of my own interests in that part of the relationship. And I just was so taken aback. And I said to her, is it unreasonable for me to want to be part of my partner's health journey and see her fit and well?

And she was like, no. And I said, well, why don't we move forward with this? And when I created the nice guideline, she kind took a little bit of a backseat and realized that we knew what we were talking about. but even still was fighting tooth and nail not to help us. And it was incredible. And this is the state of some of the, the inconsistencies with the healthcare service that we have in this country.

 and for someone like her to try and get to the gym and getting some gains in that place is really difficult because she doesn't feel like she wants to go to the gym. And that's where some of the issues are. but we could turn it around. We're gonna get it, we're gonna get there in the end.

[00:57:06] John: but it's just very interesting that the, the, the current thinking is not where it should be for us over here anyway, in this, in this country. It's not great. 

[00:57:14] Amanda: yeah, so, and North America is no different. I'm not, I think this is becoming a worldwide problem and mm-hmm. I don't know how. I don't know how we turn this around with our healthcare.

It, it almost feels like we're at, definitely in Canada, we have such a huge doctor shortage and such poor quality of care that I feel like we're on the verge of, of collapse, of, of breaking, and maybe that's what needs to happen before we can start building something real that actually helps people. I, 

[00:57:46] John: I, I used to get quite a little, well, a bit frustrated by the fact that there was a, a big gap between what the healthcare service was providing and what my clients needed and what people need generally.

And I was kind of like a little bit, I know, frustrated the fact that I would have to step in and help them because I shouldn't need to do that. But actually it's, it's really actually important because we can make better decisions, more informed decisions, rather than just seeing this person as a number or as a, just a patient and, and then, you know, give them some medication and out the door.

Whereas we can do way more for them. and when they want to like apply themselves, we can be such a pivotal point in their journey back to health. It's actually a blessing rather than the issue that I thought it was. So it's actually giving me a lot of satisfaction to be able to help people like that.

[00:58:36] Katie: Yeah. And you've helped so many people that have like PCOS and autoimmune conditions, obesity, hormone imbalance, and I'd love to know what mindset patterns you see most often in, in kind of like those struggling to change. 

[00:58:52] John: I think it's, some people, they, they say they want to change, but they don't.

They, they'll talk a good game and they say they want to do these things, and it's like, but when rubber hits the road, they're not really fully bought into it. and it's sometimes I see a lot of people. Um, so let's talk, the obesity thing is a, is a really easy one to talk about because people become the fat person.

They become this identity, which is, they've always been fat. They're gonna be fat. And they own their fatness almost to a degree. And it's like, well, I can help you change that. And they'll see other people being successful. And then they feel the pressure of, what if I don't make it? What if I'm not successful?

And there's a fear of failure that comes along with their situation and they're thinking, but what if it doesn't work for me? Everything I've tried doesn't work for me. This may not work for me, so I'm not even gonna bother starting. And it's like, well, let's have a look at your blood, see what's going on, see if there's any dysfunctions, if there's any things that are missing that we can help, you know, put Right.

And they also have the, who am I? If I'm not the fat person? They're actually like, their identity is being this person now. So a lot of people that I've met who are disabled, and some of the guys that came from the Army who have got limbs missing, they. They're now that person when they're in the military, for example, I've, I've gone sideways a little bit here, but it's to, to prove a point or to explain a point, is that they were a highly skilled operative.

That was their thing. They were highly decorated. They were that person, they had identity in the military, um, and they could progress through their, the ranks. Then they leave the military and they're injured. They've got a leg missing, and they're like, well, who am I gonna be now? Well, what is my identity?

I'm not that, that Marine or that Special Forces guy anymore. I've lost all that. So who am I? Oh, I'm the guy with the leg missing. And they actually become that person. And if you try to help them, they don't wanna know because they wanna stay, that that's a new identity that they feel comfortable with.

And similarly, some of the people that I try and help, they've become this, you know, I can't do this because I have this problem. I can't do that because I'm overweight unless it ever works for me, and it becomes who they are. So it's like you've gotta try and change their belief mechanisms to say, this is not who you are.

This, the person you are is completely different to where you are living your life. And sometimes they're becoming that is very, very difficult. Um, but as soon as we get a bit of traction, that changes and, you know, when you see someone actually progress and move forward, it's, it's a real blessing. And they, the character changes as well.

So it isn't just about the physical change you see in somebody who is overweight or has PCOS, and is, you know, struggling. It's the change in their character, um, because they're not that girl anymore or that guy and one of the girls recently, um, thing we discussed, she came to the gym and, uh, for the, the first time about two months ago, she didn't wear a hat and she had a hoodie on.

We were halfway through her workout and she took her hat off or took her hoodie down and it was the first time she's been to the gym without wearing her hairpiece or a hat or covering her head because her hair's now growing back. And it was, she had about the same amount of hair as I've got, and it was, it was for her horrendous.

So, you know, that was a, a situation where she wasn't identifying as a girl with PCOS particularly, so she could then go, I wanna move forward with this. And then did. So there's guys that are really wanting to change and they're invest in it. And there's the other people that are really unsure and then don't know what it's gonna mean for them if they do change and they're attached to it, you know?

 I think when we see a lot of people talk about, I'm a 911 survivor, uh, I thought you were called Dave. You work in a bank? No, no. I'm a nine 11 survivor, so that's their identity now. And it's really hard to let go of, and I see that in some people with illnesses. So we've gotta try and work on their psychology as well.

[01:02:44] Katie: Yeah, we did a lot of that work when, uh, we first met, didn't we? Yeah, I remember vividly. Yeah. Um, and not allowing Crohn's to be my identity. 

[01:02:56] John: Yeah. Because it was, I think remember you were saying, I've got Crohn's and I'm like, don't own it. You're making it, you are owning that stuff. You're saying it's mine.

I have Crohn's, I have this, this is mine. And it's like, no, we are not, no, I'm not having that. So even the language we were using at the time was different. So it doesn't have to be yours and now it isn't, which is amazing. It's so cool. And it's like, you know, I don't have kidney failure. It's not me. I'm not, I'm not a kidney patient anymore.

I'm not. So it's like that change in language is so important and it's, uh, it's powerful, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, but I think the more we share our stories, the more other people can be inspired by us. So, um, all the steps that I've been, I've made and what we're doing now by doing this podcast is talking about the steps we've been through our experiences, and then showing what you can do, which is completely positive and it's so important to send that message.

 because our lifestyles could have, we could have ended up in a different place entirely. And I think the more we talk about where we're at and what we've done, the more it's gonna help other people. So, and they have our guidance now as well, which is what we didn't, we didn't have that for ourselves a lot of the time.

We, we did, we did stuff blindly and had to research things ourselves. It took a lot longer. 

[01:04:12] Katie: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:12] John: So, yeah. 

[01:04:13] Katie: What's one thing you wish more people understood about healing? That doctors don't always tell you. 

[01:04:20] John: It's your responsibility, you can do it. Mm-hmm. if you are able to understand the cause.

I think the thing is, it's like there's a really good saying, which is if you want to get well, you have to remove the things that made you sick in the first place. So it's identifying those things and then removing them. So I've got somebody who wants to come on on board with me and I said, are you still smoking and still drinking?

Yes. Well, you know, unless you give those things up, then they're the toxic things in your body. You're not gonna get well while you are still polluting your body. So we need to work on the addictions you have, which is psychological and sometimes physiological as well. We need to work on those things first before your health will improve.

So you've gotta give up those things that made you sick first, and that's super important. 

[01:05:13] Katie: We talk a lot about that, don't we, Amanda? You can't heal in the same environment that made you sick. 

[01:05:18] Amanda: yeah, I think that,going back to what you said about identity, of being sick, of being a sick person, I see so much of that in the chronic illness, communities online.

And, like you said, I think it's, I think it's most rooted in fear of not, not reaching those goals, not achieving that. Because we, we tend to like to stay where we're most comfortable. Yeah. Even if that. Comfort is discomfort. 

[01:05:48] John: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, I, I tend to, like, when I have clients come on board, even regular gym going clients, I'll do a, a character profile so I can see if they're an avoider and what or what kind of person they are so we can see their avoidance, um, or if they're competitive.

So I can use that information to, to use them to challenge them, um, but in the right way. 'cause if someone's an avoider, they're just gonna shut down and go back into their avoiding behavior they're comfortable with and then not move forward. So you've gotta be way you work with those guys is very different to the guys that are very competitive and always want to succeed at stuff.

 you have to challenge them, but they have to have a level of success as well. Otherwise they'd bemo be motivated. So the way you work with 'em is, is very different. so I think that understanding that person, um, and what they require is also super important. so the psychological aspects of.

Developing strategies is so, so rooted in their success as well. but identity is very interesting. and that's where I thought I was gonna lose mine. So having the situation I was in, I was gonna lose my identity completely. Um, I had to come to terms with the fact that I was gonna be a different person possibly, and then how is that gonna affect the people around me?

Um, and how that would that affect me generally? So I think there is a fear of, of failure, again, in aspects of even healing and getting better. 

[01:07:16] Amanda: That part's really interesting. Can you walk us through how you use psychology and how you would classify new clients, in and how you would, uh, work with the different classifications?

[01:07:29] John: Yeah, so I'll give them a pretty standard test, which will ask 'em a number of questions, and it's a multi-choice kind of thing, so it's pretty simple. Uh, but they'll come upon a scale of, uh, avoider, procrastinator, or competitor, that kind of thing. So I get an insight into what can possibly drive them.

 and it's interesting because one of the ladies I work with is super competitive. but yet when I set her challenges or set challenges for her in the gym, she wouldn't attempt them because her fear of failure was so great. She wouldn't want to go there, but she's super competitive and she really wants to win stuff.

But in light of the fact she might fail, she wouldn't even attempt it. And the comment was, um, set me tasks, but don't tell me about 'em. Set me goals and challenge me, but I don't wanna know what they're, so then she could be unwillingly, sort of challenged, but then be successful without only know the result if she's been successful.

So it was kind of, it's very interesting. and so you don't wanna turn a client off. So, uh, going through that process of understanding who that person is and then trying stuff with them, you can see them as you talked about, go back into their familiar behavior because it's comfortable for them. So, an avoider, I have a few of those.

 so when I start getting 'em to do certain exercises, there's one, a leg, a leg press exercise, for example. I have, uh, I've put a measurement on the side of the leg press so I can see how far they're bringing the leg press down. There's a measurement, like a tape measure on the side of it. And when I, when the, the, the, the avoider starts putting weight on.

She'll bring it all the way down, put a bit more weight on, which I know she's capable of, comes down halfway and I'm like, that's three inches less deep than the last set you did. No, it's not. No, it really is. I've just seen it. I can film it for you. No, no, no, it's not. And she'll completely disagree with the fact that it's not coming down all the way.

So then it's like, okay, right. I need to make a strategy now of how I'm gonna deal with this person and where she believes things are happening. 'cause the perception is she's doing the same amount of work, which is actually not So, dealing with that person's, goal setting is then very different to the competitive person.

So it just allows me to then pitch my sort of like, goals for that person's development very differently. One of the things I see it's, I think it is because a lot of people can do their normal daily life, not be challenged. And for me, when I say to people, come to the gym with me, this is like the one time in the week, sometimes they get to be brave because they're not challenged really in any other way physically, particularly.

So it's when you're under a lot of weight on a leg press, you need to be brave because you think it's gonna fall on you. So I'm like, this is your chance this week to show some bravery, which is a human trait we needed like through our, you know, development in the planet. So this is a time to be brave and challenge yourself.

And some people rise to that challenge and some people don't based upon their characteristics. So the challenge has to be appropriate to that person's character. And then that sort of like teasing that out takes a while and then when you get spot on, it's kind of cool. But I found that when I speak to CEOs, so quite powerful guys who.

Get spoken to in a very respectful way, consistently because they're the boss when I speak to them. That's not how I speak to them. And nobody speaks to 'em the way I speak to them. And they're horrified, absolutely horrified. And they're like, you can see their face going, you can't speak to me like that because, and I'm like, because of what?

Why I'm challenging you. And it's like, you know, I've had a couple of guys who need help and they're CEOs of companies. So when I work out who they're as a person, I'll then change the way I speak to them. So I have one guy's blood test results, blood, and I said to him, in your role, what do you do? He says, I look at strategy for different companies and I work out what we need to employ as a strategy to get that company to work.

See where that company's gonna be in five years or maybe six years, and is it gonna be profitable? And how are we gonna change different departments to make it work? And that's really cool. So I said, so I talk about strategy and companies and how things are gonna take place and how they're gonna manipulate things to make it function.

So I said, if you've got a company that has got, the HR department is like really on its last legs, the sales team are underperforming. We've got really like nobody in the warehouse pulling their weight. The management team's terrible. Um, and then paint a picture of this particular company. Where do you think this company's gonna be in five years?

It's always gonna go bankrupt. It's gonna, it's not gonna be there anymore. Well, I said, would you invest in that company? Not at all. No. It's just pointless. Okay. Well these are your blood test results. This is your HR department. It's in the red, here's the sales team not performing. You are that company. So I'm telling you now, in five years, you are gonna be bankrupt.

That's your body. We are gonna be bankrupt in five years. We need to form a strategy right now. And they're like. Um, but it's their language. You just 

[01:12:52] Amanda: put it in. Yeah. You just put it in language that they could understand. 

[01:12:55] John: We need to save this company, we gotta do something now. There's no time to mess about.

And then I'll say to them, what you don't change, you choose. And then we'll end the conversation with them and even to think about it. And, but no one speaks to them like that. And I'm, I am, I think, um, one of the guys, um, this has always hits a man very hard. So we've been having a nice conversation about life in general and stuff.

And I'm like, so, um, you know, how's work going? That kind of stuff. And I'll drop in. Do you still get an erection in the morning and

there's silence and, sorry, what? Do you still get an erection in the morning? No. No, but that's normal. 'cause I'm like, I'm 43 and I'm like, okay, I'm 54, I'm good. Okay. Um, that's a, that's a sign about your libido, that's a sign and that kind of stuff digs straight into a man's macho image in there. I said, when you go home to your misses at the end of the night, you have a long day at work.

I'm sure she likes cuddles, but, um, you've got a relationship you need to work on. Intimacy is super important. What do you think is gonna happen in your relationship? There's no intimacy. Obviously, it comes in different forms as well as I'm digging in and no one's spoken to a CEO guy like this ever.

[01:14:09] Amanda: Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:09] John: And he feels almost offended by it, but it's like he can't get away with that comment. And it's like, it's, it's a sign that you need to do something about your health because you are still young. You still have a life to live. You still have a, a family and a wife and there's things you need to be doing as a person.

And that kind of conversation, when I realize who that person is, I know where I can take it. And I've never speak to an avoider like that because they're just gonna close up and never speak to me again. Probably never speak to or have seen me again. So it's like that kind of understanding of who that person is also is a shortcut to like, earning the right to speak to people that way.

So I wouldn't speak to everybody that way, but when it's appropriate, it wakes people up because they've just been doing the same thing for the last like 10 years. So it's so interesting, but that then I have a safety net because I, I pretty much get an idea of how they're gonna respond. And it may seem harsh, but it's a wake up call for lots of people.

 I 

[01:15:09] Amanda: think that just perfectly illustrates the fact that like you're, you're doing the work to learn about your clients and work with them in a way that's going to benefit them and recognizing that they are bio individual, they have, you're not just giving them a one size fits all protocol.

And I think that the practitioners who get the best results with people are practitioners that understand that, that people need to be treated as individuals and you can't just give somebody, just hand somebody a protocol and expect them to just follow it because you said so. 

[01:15:42] John: Yeah, it's, it's similar, I think it comes from a background in strength conditioning because when you look at an athlete, you may have an athlete that's very, very strong.

But not very fast. And then you have an athlete that's very, very fast, but not very strong. So you look at their qualities physically and also mentally, and your training that you, your, your needs analysis is, it's like a diagnosis of what that person needs to become a better athlete. So you wouldn't give a strong athlete more deadlifts and more strength work to do because they're already strong.

You give them speed work and a different type of training based upon what they need. Um, and that's a foundation of how to get the best out of an athlete. And similarly, when we start looking at someone with health issues, we have to do the same thing. Nobody is the same, although with the same species.

And we respond similarly to diffs a similar, you know, stimulus. There's still big differences. And we have to like, be good and un courteous enough to look at them as a single person and work on those needs for that person. And then it, it works really well because they see the change for themselves.

 but, um. I think when they're comfortable with that, they, they can ask questions as well. I think that questioning part is really important. So, but I think you earn the right by being open, honest, and working with that person, showing an interest in that person's needs allows them to be open with you as well.

So it's a, it's a, a two way street, I think, if you develop that relationship by understanding who that person is before and when you start. and I think that's probably where a lot of my successful people has come from is I've landed a good ability to create, a good rapport with people and trust with them.

Um, so there have been, you know, incidences where, people have been very honest about their, their health issues. and I sometimes take a look at myself in the mirror thinking, I'm surprised that someone even approached me and talked to me about that. You know, I've got young guys talking about low testosterone levels and low li issues, and I, looking at my, my demeanor and sometimes my appearance, I'll be the last person I speak to about that.

And then I have females talking about like, yeah, you know, um, I'm saying a certain like contraceptive, I feel really bad on it. what do you think? And I think that has come from being completely honest about my journey, buys a lot of trust in that person. because we're all adults as well and we can speak openly about stuff and there's no embarrassment, you know?

So I think that's the way it works really well. So understanding your client, doing some, some psychometric tests and seeing what they're kind of like as characters allows you to be, to temper with the way you speak and what questions you ask. 

[01:18:22] Amanda: if someone feels broken or dysfunctional or like their body is working against them, what's the first mindset shift that they need to make? 

[01:18:34] John: The belief that they can change. They have the power. They, they are in control of their destiny.

 I think that if you have the belief that you are in charge of your own life. You can try stuff. It's like trying and failing is not a problem. You know, you've got options if you believe everything you are told by people who don't know, you don't take the time to understand who you are.

 then you're not gonna believe. You can actually change and you can. There's small things you can do and you are made out of. And one of the things I talk about, this is obviously, uh, physiological, but you're made out of like food, water, air, and light. That's what makes you who you are with the DNA that you have.

So you reproduce based on your DNA, but even that doesn't control you. You know, so, you know, you, you express parts of your genetic code depending on the circumstances you place it in. So if you are filling your body with all the right things, your body is gonna express all the good genes that you have, you're not gonna stimulate the negative ones.

So they're, they're covered a lot of the stuff that we have in our, in our genetic profile. you know, we may have like genes for pancreatic cancer or, you know, something else laying dormant in our genes that have been passed down through our family, but we're not expressing them right now. We haven't stimulated them.

They're covered in a, in a protein sheath. and they're only stimulated if we do certain types of things. So the environment we place ourselves in or we create inside our bodies is super important. And obviously food does that, and the environment does that. So you're in control of where you put yourself, what water you drink, what food you you eat, and what air you breathe.

That's all you know, up to you. And you can change that. And there are many times where, I will say to somebody, oh, I've, I've felt broken. You know, and it's a journey. We're all on a journey. You know, you may feel, you know, broken or damaged or, you know, flawed, but we're all flawed. So, but it's now what we choose to do with it.

And you have the. Power to change if you really want to. And if you are willing to do that, then you know, I'll help you. So, it's making that step. It's like a brave thing to do. Sometimes. It's scary. I, I talk about, uh, my clients all know I've been, I. Seeing a lady I'm working with now, uh, called Ella McChrystal, who's a therapist, and she's an amazing lady and she's helped me through, I think one of the things that is really fundamental to this conversation actually, is that I started to see Ella, I wanted to work with her in business, and then I realized that I should actually go and spend some time with her as a, as a client, because I've worked so many years on my body, I needed to do some mind work, you know, work on my actual like character and my mental processing and where I'm at.

And, uh, I spent, I've been, uh, with her for four years and the initial sort of like therapy sessions we were having was about entirely different subject matters. And then I got my diagnosis and the things that I learned about self-reflection and my mental state and how I view things and the way my brain functions and me as a person allowed me.

To be more resilient when I got those diagnosis, because that built me from the character base and my, you know, um, psychology upwards. And that really helped me get through those issues. So that was super important and I think that, I've explained and I've been completely open about my journey with that part of my life as well.

 and from that, many of my clients and people who know me have gone to see, seek like some help as well with, with counseling, because we're all flawed. We've all got things we can work on and we can all deal with things better. And I think that a lot of the times that we are triggered. Um, what we tend to do is people is go tell your partner or someone, don't press my buttons.

Can you avoid doing that? Please don't do that. It's gonna trigger me when instead we should be able to allow those triggers to happen, but deal with them so much better so they're no longer triggers. And know rather than avoid them, we deal with the triggers and they're not triggers anymore. And I think that is super important as well.

And I think that the development that you can show that you've put work in both mentally and physically, really help that person see who you are and, help them to grow and say, you know what? This is possible, you know, you've done it and I can do it, and also you are there to help me. So I think that mind switch is about I have the power to change if I want to, and that's, that's that bit of stubbornness as well.

[01:23:04] Amanda: Yeah, I love that. And that's, I love your holistic approach, that you're not just looking at one thing. You're not just teaching people how to lift weights in the gym. You're helping them with their, their mental health, their mindset, their belief in themselves. It's, it's amazing. 

[01:23:21] John: Yeah. Thank you. just on that, my brand I started in my mind years ago was called Ministry of Iron.

Um, the idea being that iron the weightlifting is a purpose for ministry. So I can then help people through iron, and that's how I engage with them to begin with. so it isn't just about weightlifting. Yes. So that's a, a, a medium that allows me to touch people, uh, to touch their lives and change them, hopefully for the better.

So yeah, it's never been just about weightlifting, but that's, that's the reason. So, yeah, that's, you call, you picked upon that. 

[01:23:53] Amanda: Yeah. So how can people get in touch with you if they want to reach out? 

[01:23:57] John: So I've got an Instagram account, which is, ministry of Iron, which is kind of like the bodybuilding fitness kind of page.

And I've got John Buckland coaching, which is the health side of things where I deal with people, and you can get to through me, through Katie as well, through KLK nutrition, uh, so we can talk about, you know, all the health issues we talk about um, menopause and PCOS, endometriosis and arthritis and all those kind of things we can deal with, 

So yeah, I'd be happy to help help anybody. Beautiful. Thanks for having me as well. This has been really nice. I've really enjoyed it. I told you it was gonna be a powerful one. John's story is a reminder. We all need that. Even when it feels like your body has failed you, it's never too late to rewrite the story. And if you're curious about peptides strength training or just need someone in your corner, then John is one of the best. We'll leave his details in the show notes.

[01:24:50] Amanda: We will be back next week with more honest conversations about healing. Until then, stay strong, stay curious, and keep going.