EP 12 | The Intersection of Mindset and Health with John Buckland

In this episode, Katie sits down with John Buckland to discuss their personal health journeys, the psychological impact of chronic conditions, and challenges practitioners face in maintaining a flexible mindset. They explore their experiences from pre-diagnosis to now, emphasizing the role of mindset and flexibility in healing. 

The conversation offers raw honesty, insights, and practical tips on managing stress, overcoming mental barriers, and adapting to ever-evolving health journeys. 

They dive into topics like: 

• The dangers of ignoring warning signs
• The importance of changing one's environment and behaviour
• The psychological and physical struggles of sports performance
• and the profound effect of self-awareness on health. 

If you'd like to connect with John, you can find him on Instagram @johnbucklandcoaching or @ministryofiron

Transcript

In today's episode, I'm joined by John Buckland as we dive deep into our personal health journeys, the psychological impact of living with chronic health conditions and the challenges practitioners face when trying to maintain a flexible mindset.

Together we are going to be exploring how our experiences have shaped our approach to healing. Why mindset plays such of a pivotable role in our health and how we've learned to embrace flexibility in both our professional and our personal lives. This conversation is packed with raw honesty, insights and practical tips on overcoming mental barriers, managing stress, and adapting to change in our ever evolving health journeys.

So grab a cup of tea, get comfy, and let's dive in. 

[00:00:51] Katie: welcome to the podcast

I wanted to, gear this podcast around both of our healing journeys and what that looked like for both of us from pre-diagnosis right up until now. not only the physical implications, but also the psychological implications that happened and how we overcome them.

So, both have been pretty transformative journeys. Mm-hmm. Would you agree? 

[00:01:19] John: Yeah. 

[00:01:19] Katie: if you had to summarize your story in one sentence, how would you describe it? 

[00:01:24] John: Life changing. Yeah. Totally. Life changing because if you didn't change your life, you wouldn't come out the other side. So inevitably you've gotta be different in a lot of ways.

So physically and mentally and change behavior. It's your old life that's put you in that place. So you have to form a new one 

[00:01:44] Katie: And create space for that to happen.

[00:01:46] John: Yeah. And that involves changing your environment and the people you're around or how you deal with the people and situations that are around you.

everything changes. Doesn't mean everything disappears or the people you're around disappear. It just means that the, the way you deal with stuff, that everyday stresses of life have to change as well. 

. 

[00:02:07] Katie: And what was the moment or. series of moments where you realized that something had to change in your life?

[00:02:15] John: I think everybody gets to a point where if they've changed their life significantly, there are warning signs, but you can ignore them and they keep knocking. when something serious happens, you realize this is no longer something you can ignore. for me it was when I was, my biggest, my heaviest, and my strongest.

But my body was under a huge amount of pressure, because of all those things. it started to not function. high blood pressure, sleep apnea, not being able to breathe, and the cardiovascular effects of being so big. I wasn't able to walk upstairs effectively, and normal. Life was almost impossible.

Because it just became, so cumbersome and large and too big for my body, I didn't fit in anymore. there were cases where I was training, I'd just pass out and have to go, have to go to hospital because my body was rejecting everything I was doing to it.

[00:03:12] Katie: Do you feel like your intuition was screaming at you, but you didn't necessarily have the awareness around it to even listen ?

[00:03:20] John: Yes and no. you can ignore stuff, avoid it, because that's either a familiar behavior or it's easy. Because people like to avoid 'cause you're not facing something that may be difficult and making you change your life. you like what you're doing. You're doing it for a purpose.

So this is knocking on the door saying, change what you're doing. Otherwise you're gonna suffer. But you ignore it and push on. in the areas of sports performance, and the macho kind of endeavors of sport. We are conditioned to think, we've gotta push hard, it's gotta be difficult, and we've gotta suffer.

And that kind of grind is necessary. So when things get really hard and you are struggling, you're like, I'm just gonna dig deeper and push harder. Mm-hmm. Because there's a, 

[00:04:05] Katie: that's that mentality that's been drilled into us, right? 

[00:04:07] John: if you can squat and do 15 reps of squats and stumble off and sit down and breathe like, a steam train.

But if you do 25 reps, you're in bits and you can barely stand up. you work 25 reps and go until you can't do anymore. That's the mentality. So because that's gonna be better. So pushing hard is inbred into this sort of like macho idea of being physically able and being the best.

Absolutely. So you ignore the pain. Or the things your body is telling you. You're used to it and it's the grind that makes you a man and knows other stuff that's nonsense. So yeah, you can ignore stuff and this is what I did. 

[00:04:44] Katie: And how do you feel now? Do you feel like reflecting back on your journey, you were proud of those moments or do you have a different perspective on it now?

[00:04:57] John: Hmm. The perspective has changed and it was ridiculous that the whole. Mental aspects of not listening, not being aware, ignoring and pushing on was kind of stupid 'cause my body was screaming at me. But then you look back and think, what did I achieve in that time? Did I set out to hit my goals? Yes.

Did anything stop me? No. Which is a problem 'cause it should have stopped me. and eventually it did. I had no choice in the matter, but, I wanted to lift a certain amount of weight and nothing was gonna stop me getting there. So you look back and think, yeah, you had the determination and the grit to push through and do it so you achieve stuff.

So you're kinda proud of your resilience and battling through tough times, but you look back and think, well that was just ridiculous as well. Because of where it's put me, you know, was it worth it in the end? Not really. So, you know, you find value in the things which are much more important.

Which are, which are relationship. With other humans. because when you are training and competing at a level where it becomes everything you do, you basically ostracize yourself. And you become so blinkered, everything is revolving around your goals and not developing normal human relationships.

You're eating, you're sleeping, your training just takes you away from normal social engagement, which is not great. You know, that interaction for humans is really important. And you lose that because of the journey you're on. So even from that perspective, it's just a waste of a human to a degree.

when you realize those things are so important for overall general health and prosperity, when you get them back, you know how much they matter.And also, you can never do things on your own. You might think you're an island and you can just crack on. And I don't need anybody.

when people push themselves to a place where it's now obvious you can't make this on your own. It humbles you and you realize you need help. And that's what you have to seek. 

[00:07:02] Katie: If you could go back and do things differently, what would that look like?

[00:07:08] John: Ha, that's, interesting.

It's really easy to people, 'cause people wanna put a, a point on why did it happen? Why did you have these issues? And they say, was it the training? Was it the food? Was it. Your capacity to push. it's all of the things, drug taking, not sleeping too much food, constant training, all of the things we can list off.

These all played a role and so did my psychology. So having an addictive behavioral pattern, which has come from childhood, is also to blame. so if I could change anything, it would be the necessity to try and prove my worth in something that I thought mattered when so many other things didn't.

other things matter more. there's, a psychological aspect. I'd go back and change. the amount of food I was eating or the amount of drugs I was taking would change. this inherent desire to reach your goals as soon as possible is also, we seem to put like time limits on ourselves.

We've gotta get this by this point and we rush it and then necessary in many cases. Yes. So I would train some of that stuff as well.

[00:08:21] Katie: I always feel like we. Underestimate what we can achieve in five years and overestimate what we can achieve in five months.

[00:08:30] John: And people look, they want shortcuts.

they want packs and bio hacks and stuff and all this. And it's like the best hack is to do it right the first time round. Because if you try and do a shortcut, you have to repeat yourself, do it again. 'cause you didn't do it right the first time round. So save time and actually plan out what you're gonna do.

And if it isn't sustainable. It's not gonna work. sometimes we set off with these ideas that we're gonna do all these amazing things and not actually think about the consequences. Because it hasn't been planned properly, 

[00:08:59] Katie: And I think a lot of people do that in a multitude of areas in their lives.

[00:09:04] John: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:04] Katie: Not just training it then filters into work and relationships and there's just so much pressure probably due to Social constructs as well. But I feel like there's a lot of pressure that people put on themselves. Unnecessarily.

[00:09:20] John: I take no hesitation in saying that my situation was caused entirely by my own behavior.

My choices led to where I was. So for you, that was not the same thing. you were in a position where your health was compromised, but not because of your own choices and behavior. if I, that question of would you look back and change anything? Whole bunch of stuff I'd change.

But for you, because it wasn't caused by your behavior, 

[00:09:50] Katie: I think it was to a certain extent. Because I wasn't taking care of my body. I was an 18-year-old. Girl partying all the time and I had trauma from childhood, I hadn't processed that because I didn't know how to, even though they say there isn't a definitive reason why people develop Crohn's, I do think that there were a multitude of factors including alcohol eating disorder.

Mm-hmm. Unprocessed trauma. I think there was a lot that resulted in my immune system crashing. because I was so young, it didn't take much. Whereas as you get older, you become more resilient and that inflammation buildup might happen over a longer amount of time 

Being quite vulnerable as a youngster. I do think that there was a number of factors as to why that happened.

[00:10:51] John: I guess that in many cases, there's a responsibility that we share to do the right thing. And we can choose not to. Even if on the surface it feels like it was just an unfair turn of events. There are things we can all do better. 

[00:11:05] Katie: And I think it is a process it takes a long time to reflect and think, actually no, that happened because of X, Y, and Z. It's not gonna be like an instant thing where you realize or have that realization that your actions caused the consequence. Especially when you're in the moment, you're just completely blindsided.

[00:11:24] John: Hmm. I also think that a lot of the times we think the consequences of our behavior is solely affecting us and nobody else. Mm-hmm. The things that I was involved with, power lifting and bodybuilding are all quite individual sports . if you can call 'em sports, so. Because you are isolated in that moment when you're training or getting ready for a competition.

It's all about you to a degree and your development physically and emotionally to a point. You've gotta push harder to get, get these things done. You forget the outside environment and the people around you. And then for me, when I did get sick, then those people suffer too. So you have to take into account that whatever you do, it does affect others as well, you know?

[00:12:19] Katie: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:12:20] John: And that would be something I would like to, change is the impact that had on other people. it affected everybody in my life. it also made them judge some of their own levels of mortality as well. I have clients who are way older than me and then telling them.

I've now got heart failure and kidney failure and it may kill me in the next six years. Seeing how someone who I've grown to know as a client over a long time and we've become friends then has to contemplate the fact that they're gonna be burying me before them, which has never entered their mind.

I saw that happen in people's minds when I said to them, this is where it's at. And these guys are like 65 years old and they've never even had the thought of the confrontation of thinking, this guy's gonna be dead before I am. It's inevitable I'm gonna be leaving the planet before John is not the case anymore.

And that for them to deal with that was interesting. So I found that dealing with other people's response to where I was was also very interesting 

[00:13:27] Katie: Well they were probably scared to a certain extent. Because they probably look up to you as a mentor 

Healthy figure. 

[00:13:36] John: Yep. This is really interesting. 

[00:13:38] Katie: So when you found out that you had kidney failure and heart failure, was it at the same time? 

[00:13:43] John: Yeah, pretty much within, I think three days of each other. So I'd been taken into the hospital 'cause I'd collapsed again and then they'd run a panel on me.

And the interesting thing is a lot of, the guys in the bodybuilding and strength areas, do blood work regularly, so we check our blood markers My blood work for my kidney function was tip top. a month later it was in the bin. It changed that quickly.

So it was almost like the stress of everything building up over time got to a tipping point where my body was saying, no, that's it. You're done. So it crashed. It literally crashed. it was a phenomenal drop in, kidney function and then going into hospital having the work done, seeing the results and then having other scans and being told there's something in your chest, we dunno what it is.

we needed to get you back in for more tests And then to say you've got severe heart failure. Along with the kidney failure, comorbidities an inflamed liver, a swollen liver as well. And it was kinda like, wow, all my organs are just failing. And that was yeah, in a three day space a time.

And that just changes your life. 

[00:14:54] Katie: How did you feel whilst they were telling you the diagnosis? 

[00:14:57] John: Strangely expectant, because I've been pushing so hard for so long I'm from a medical background, understand anatomy and physiology and I know that there's always a price to pay if you push this hard and something's gonna break at some point.

even though I knew that was gonna be the case, I didn't really think it was gonna happen, but then it did. And it's like, well, I didn't think I could get away with this for this long. But, yeah, it's still a massive shock. And then telling the people around you 

[00:15:30] Katie: was that worse than actually receiving the initial diagnosis ?

Yeah, it was. Yeah. 

[00:15:35] John: Yeah, because they're not ready for either. I've got no idea. And if you play a big part in someone's life, even to the point that I'm a coach and I train people, I'm like a PT strength coach. The fact that these people rely on me, I see them every day. I see a client maybe five hours a week and over a year, it's a lot of time spent with somebody.

You get to know them and then you're saying, I'm gonna be gone, or This is definitely gonna end very soon. the whole relationship with training, it's like you're a figure in their life and it's a massive shock for them. it's incredible how much input you have on people around you 

[00:16:12] Katie: And also the amount of love that people have for you too.

 Yeah.

[00:16:15] John: when people think, why are they here? I have no purpose. It's when you realize What it means to other people if you weren't around, everything you say and do has an impact on others.

It's a massive impact. So it's a good teaching tool. 

[00:16:32] Katie: Did you feel in any way defeated at that point? 

[00:16:36] John: Yeah. 

[00:16:38] Katie: How did you overcome that then? 

[00:16:39] John: luckily I've been seeing a therapist for other issues and she'd built my resilience up significantly 

at this point, we started talking about how to accept death and what death means and all this kind of stuff, which was interesting. because there's many different ways you can look at what death means, and how it affects other people. it was. Interesting because as much as I was accepting of possible end results I was also rejecting them as well, I'm like, this is not happening.

There was maybe a 70%, yeah, this is real. It's gonna happen and I'm gonna have to ride the storm and get my life in order. There was also that 30% of me that would not believe it, like, nah, this isn't happening. And that stubbornness to fight it is what kept me going. 'cause I was stubborn and I'm like, I'm gonna fix this.

I'm not having this. And that's stubbornness is what, kept me. On the path to recovery. So I think, yeah, stubbornness also plays a part in our downfall, but also in our success as well. 

[00:17:47] Katie: Yeah, absolutely. And both of us have probably had those, why me moments? So what helped you shift your mindset to take control?

[00:17:59] John: I think it's, one of the things I put on the back of my branding, my clothing is enemy of average because I don't wanna be average, never have one to be average. What's average? that's just not where you wanna be in life. You want to put work into being the best version of yourself. . and I think that.

This would be, I'm not gonna be averaging this situation either. I've been talking to my clients for such a long time about how to lift their game physically, emotionally, mentally, all the advice with nutrition and stuff. And then I'm hit with something, whether self-inflicted or not. Now what I do reflects whether I bleed in any of the stuff I talked about.

All this stuff I've been saying the last seven to 10 years. Was that real? Well, now it's my chance to show that it is, and I'm now a witness to everybody else that you can actually do this if you dig in deep and do the right thing at the right time and allow yourself to be vulnerable to the fact that you've done something that you can now work on to try and change.

But it was like, I'm not gonna let this, why me overtake me? It's not happening. So I'm gonna beat you. 

[00:19:02] Katie: And where are you now in terms of your health and your heart and your kidneys? 

[00:19:08] John: Yeah. I had a number of conversations with the consultants who were doing what they consider to be the best of their job, but they worked through a very narrow band of ability to prescribe things their knowledge is specific.

That's why you have departments of respiratory oncology nephrology and stuff. a lot of the things that you can do to regain the health of your kidneys involve other things that would not necessarily be considered beneficial for that particular disease.

So I had lots of problems with those guys talking and issues and arguments and stuff, but, where I am now is I employed all the things that I could find studied, like crazy and applied the stuff that I knew would help me. within 12 months, I was discharged from. the renal consultant, he took me in on the day and said, I need to discharge you from the service.

And I'm like, what are you saying? he showed me my results and my kidney function had basically gone back to normal. So it had been in the bottom, There's, five stages of kidney failure, one to five, and five is dialysis, which is not a great place to be.

So you are basically being kept alive by machines and your quality of life is very low. and the people around you become carers, which is not great for those guys either. So we wanna try and avoid that at all costs. from that point, within 12 months, I was back to having a kidney function that was.

High normal, which was amazing. so it can be done if you change your life, like we discussed at the beginning, if you want to change your life, you have to want to do that, then you can reverse many of the things that you've damaged luckily, this is not a well known thought that you can actually do this with your kidneys, but you clearly can.

Yeah. And I did not even for one moment, doubt that I couldn't do it. And that stubborn belief in what I can achieve really helped me get through In diagnosis terms, if you have what's called an ejection fraction, which means when your left ventricle fills with blood, your heart pumps and it pushes out a certain percentage of that blood.

normally it's around 70%, 75%. So when my heart beats, it pumps out. 34%, so a massively reduced amount of blood volume coming outta my heart. which, and anything under 40 is really called severe heart failure. but also got like a damage to one of my, valves in my heart as well. So that doesn't work effectively.

So there are some issues going on. That period of time I then set about working on improving my cardiac function. there are many things you can do both through nutrition exercise and medication to reverse the place your heart's in, reduce left ventric size, bring down blood pressure, 

So I'm currently sitting at a much better EGFR. It's risen. it's around 40, so it's bordering on, not severe, but still heart failure. but I'm not living that life either. the diagnosis says I should be experiencing these symptoms of breathlessness, can't walk up a hill, I have none of those because I'm refusing to have them.

So they're like, How are you still deadlifting and spotting and training people? Because that's the life I'm choosing to live. I'm not having any other way. So I'm in a clinical case study where they're looking at my heart to see how it's still functioning, and we'll see the results in a few months 

I intend to keep pushing this is the witness I want to give to other people. the whole point of, doing what we are doing for both of us, for our conditions is to allow people, not just heart failure and Crohn's and kidney failure, but to like, tell people there's options and you can change stuff if you really want to.

Yeah. it's not the end of the road, 

[00:22:40] Katie: it's frustrating because the awareness is just not out there when it comes to this. that makes people fearful because they don't have the knowledge or they're not told about the alternatives.

[00:22:54] John: And this is where, the clinicians and the consultants were doing their best job, but I had to be in a place where I could apply my knowledge of medicine from my previous job roles.

And I can actually stand with them and have conversations at a high level and put my point across. unfortunately, someone who hasn't got the same level of knowledge would just be in the shadow of their, authority and go, yeah, I'll do that, And whether that'd be successful or not is questionable, you know?

[00:23:24] Katie: Do you think if you didn't have the knowledge that you have now, and you didn't have a medical background or anything like that, and you were told the same diagnosis, do you think that you would be in a completely different place now compared to what you actually are?

[00:23:41] John: Yeah, 100%. 

[00:23:43] Katie: That's wild. 

[00:23:44] John: Yeah. because of this situation, I've advertised the fact that I've been through this to pretty much everybody I meet I'm now working with people who have kidney failure, for a similar reason. we've employed a lot of the interventions that I used and their kidneys are recovering.

it's sometimes in spite of the advice they're given, so things are getting better and their kidney function is returning. I believe that, not doing the things I did wouldn't have been of any benefit 

[00:24:14] Katie: So what's one thing you learned the hard way that you wish more people knew?

[00:24:19] John: Self-awareness. Because we can just bumble along in life, thinking about what you want to achieve, get in the job, get in the car, setting goals, which is all amazing stuff. But we really do forget our impact on other people and even ourselves sometimes. so having self-awareness, leads you to be a better version of yourself if you allow it to.

This is where the challenges of life hit you and you can go, oh, why me? And boo-hoo about it. Or you can pick yourself up and go, you know what? I am capable and I can do stuff about this. 'cause you're self aware, you know where your value is, you know what you are able to achieve. Then you go get it.

Face it head on. Not hide from it. I know many people don't want to hear the results of their blood test. people wanting blood tests, they wanna start doing, you know, a competing bodybuilding. I said, well okay, we need to know where your health is right now before we start do a blood test.

And they don't do it. They don't wanna know. It's that sort of bury your head in the sand thing. I did that for points in my life. this is for personal development, emotional development and physical development clearly, and health.

So that self-awareness, being open to being vulnerable, to be taught something from someone else . really important. But I think also we've known each other for a long time as well and I've not been under any sort of negative health, consequences. For pretty much the whole time I've known you.

But I saw you go through hospital visits, seeing images of you with pipes stuck in your arms and blood taken And that was pretty horrific, even as, an onlooker. But then knowing someone going through that, then when you go to a place where you are in a position in hospital, you think back and go, now I've got some appreciation of where that person was.

You may say it and think it at the time, but when you start to experience it, you realize how lucky you are and how lucky you've been.. And your journey was also a pivotal point in mine. 

[00:26:25] Katie: Really?

yeah. It was ,. Yeah. 

What, from like a resilience perspective

[00:26:29] John: Yeah. All of it. All of it. Yeah. You know, it was on many occasions, he'd send me pictures of you being back in hospital, going through your infusions and stuff, and telling me about how you felt afterwards and the amount of bravery it takes to go and just get your blood taken and then have testing on you.

Oh, we've got a new medicine we're gonna try. Is it gonna work more? I don't know. We're gonna try anyway. See what happens. And it's your life hanging in the balance and your quality of life hanging in the balance. That's a big deal. 

[00:27:01] Katie: Yeah.

[00:27:02] John: So looking back, being in that position makes it real.

And then seeing someone else go through that and being incredibly brave and resilient. Yeah. 

[00:27:15] Katie: I think for me the turning point was I had 35 tests in a month and a half. 

[00:27:21] John: It's crazy.

[00:27:22] Katie: And they weren't like small tests. They were double balloon in endoscopy and tube up the nose into the stomach and whatever.

Slice in the neck to look into the liver. And I think every single time you go through something like that, you build a new level of resilience, which you don't appreciate at the time because you're going through it. In the moment, and you're pretty scared, but you don't realize just how much confidence and resilience you are actually building during these really tough times.

And I think it's true, when people say you only grow as a person when you're challenged. you can be challenged in so many different ways. when you're having to deal with something to do with your health, it's like no one else can really resonate with you.

unless someone is going through the same thing, that creates a level of loneliness, but you are having to support yourself from an emotional and physical perspective, 

[00:28:14] John: It's exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Those kind of procedures are Yeah. In incredibly difficult to go through, but also to then go through them on a number of occasions.

Doing it once you realize what you have to go through, and then doing it again and again Having to. Pick yourself up after the last one and then go through it again. is incredible. when I was going through these stages of kidney failure, knowing what happens is very interesting because for a guy, this is one of the things that made me realize what it's like to be a perimenopausal woman, women talk very often about how they lose their identity and they don't feel like a woman anymore and their hair gets thin and so on.

a lot of guys won't even consider that. when the wives are going through it. as I was going through these four stages of kidney failure, you lose your testosterone levels, you lose your muscle mass, you start to become unfit and completely fatigued 'cause your body isn't clearing the toxins.

you start to lose all of the faculties that you want to have as a man. libido goes down complications happen. your kidneys are so important to your overall wellbeing and you have to take that on the chin and go, you know what, I'm not gonna be the big guy I used to be.

I'm not gonna have the muscles, I'm not gonna have the testosterone levels. All the stuff that I consider to make me a man is gonna fall away. Who am I? Who am I gonna be? I've spent all this time building. Myself up to a place where I think I'm a man.

So where is my masculinity attached to? Is it my body, my performance, my size? Is it my sexual prowess? 'cause that's all gonna go, it's all gonna drop away. So what's left? And it's like you have to then sit and think, how am I gonna cope with that? And many people go through situations like that.

So the quality of life aspect is super important. And what I've realized was that through the journey of being a bodybuilder and a coach you get labeled by people. They give you like, almost like a costume to wear. I've never called myself Big John ever because I'm five foot six. And most bodybuilders don't think they're big anyway.

'cause they've got like some mo 

[00:30:32] Katie: body dys morphia, 

[00:30:33] John: body dys, morphia going on. So like, no, I'm, I'm tiny your arms are 20 inches. No, I'm tiny. it's stupid, you don't see it, but then someone will go, right, big John, and you get these labels of who you are, and then you almost wear that costume 

All the time. And then you're like, oh, my superhero cape's gone now. they're gonna look at me and go, you're no longer big. What happened to you? So all that imagery and attachment to what people consider to be masculine is gonna go. And that was also a huge deal psychologically to think about.

it also made me think about where you are and where you were with the treatments that would debilitate you. And then what the implications of progressing Crohn's would end up doing. Because that's gonna affect your quality of life going forward. Completely. 

[00:31:21] Katie: it's scary because. You can't predict the future and you don't really know what you should be doing. Not only because the support isn't there from medical people, but also you don't understand at that time why this has happened to you. So you then don't know what the right move is next to take.

So , receiving news that no medication is working and the next step is gonna be a stoma bag, and the implications that will have on your life. It's like you walk out of that consultation and you just break down. Mm-hmm. Because even though some people don't have a choice, I still felt like I had a choice.

Because I knew that. This wasn't gonna define me. And I knew that I wasn't gonna give up with this journey that I was on, and I wasn't gonna let it get to that stage. unpicking everything. And peeling it back like layers of an onion was such a difficult process because you really have to analyze what on earth are you doing in your life?

Whether that be psychological, emotional, like what stress is triggering these responses in your body? Or why has XY Z's done this to you to cause this effect within your body? What was that and why is this happening? And what can you do differently? What do you need to change in your current life to change your trajectory?

Because not that many people can sit there and be like. This is why this has happened. This trauma caused this, this is what I'm doing that's then causing this, affecting my body. I sit there with clients and this is what I go through because you never really factor in the big wins and the small wins and it can go into reverse.

They don't really factor in like, okay, well I've had a baby, then split up with my partner. I had X, Y, Z happen in my childhood. My mom and dad broke up. how has that actually affected me emotionally and what has that trauma done that I'm now bringing into my present day life and how can I change that and how can I change my perspective on that?

And it's like a lot of it is psychological and we know this and Neuronutrition is becoming thankfully quite a large space in the clinical. Area now, and I'm so glad they're looking into it because it's been so overlooked for so long. people just think it's what they eat.

Oh, well I'm eating healthy and nothing's changing. But it's like, what are you doing on a psychological front? Like, what's your work life like? What is your relationships like? Are you in a toxic relationship? how do you treat your staff at work? Or how do they treat you? 

there's just so many different layers to it, and that's what you have to start to unpick when you really want, a dramatic change in your health.

[00:34:11] John: Yeah. That's an awesome, point to make because I've got a number of clients who are looking to reverse their kidney failure and pretty much, they'll be doing a similar set of interventions That I did and the other guys are doing who are in this position. you can see the difference between the responses, the results, the outputs from these people, depending on how they've changed their scenarios and their lifestyles.

for sure you are doing the same thing this next person's doing and sometimes you may be even taking more medication, which has a more profound effect, but you're not getting the effects we're looking for. Exactly. 'cause you are still stressed. Yeah. You're still not allowing, you're not unburdening your body to give it the chance to breathe.

To allow these things to work. unless you change that perspective on stress, particularly if you have an autoimmune disease. kidney function is about removing toxins from your body. if you are stressed all the time, your body's pumping out cortisol, which comes from the kidney.

On top of the kidney. You have your adrenal glands and it's very closely associated to your kidney function. So if you are pumping out these cortisol molecules, your body is entirely stressed all the time, and it's having to deal with this level of internal stress and inflammation and so on. It's not giving it, you're not giving it a chance to heal.

At all. So that breathing space is so important and I think that, many people who want to get better, forget that psychological part. Where you have to unburden yourself mentally and your body at the same time. And the work sometimes is much harder. In the psychological part.

Because. old habits as the saying goes, die hard, and if you responded the same way to the same level of stress or to the same triggers that you've had for a while, then getting better is gonna take a lot longer. if at all. 

[00:36:08] Katie: And that's where accountability comes in.

Because you have someone that's got kids. And they work and they're a single parent and they've gotta cook and clean the house and look after the family and do everything. they feel so overwhelmed. They don't know how to create that space that they need to heal.

And that's where the accountability comes in. Mm-hmm. So that they have someone to enable them to create that space for them. Yeah. And they can have these aha moments and then actually action it. Because that's the hard part. Like it's all well in good saying this. Yeah. I realized that I got triggered here or there.

But then actually changing your behavior is the hard part and making that habitual rather than Just a ritual is Where accountability comes in. 

[00:36:57] John: But also I think my stubbornness put me in a position in the first place, but then you have to let go of that as well to a degree. Not the drive to be better and successful.

But to be open to help from somewhere else or someone else. I can take these, healing peptides and this nutrition on board and train less hard to give my body a chance, but. Stepping into therapy to really examine the way my brain functions and my behaviors, probably put me there in the first place.

Yeah. With my dysfunctional coping mechanisms. Yeah. Unraveling all that stuff was equally, if not more important than anything that I did in that whole process. when I talk about my therapist, I say, she saved my life. it's not a flippant statement. Because my life is 100% different because of the way that I've developed my coping mechanism strategies, for survival from learning about me.

that's the awareness I'm talking about. we've got these. Medicines now peptides that can help improve neuro, protective mechanisms and help brain function. And we learn behavior better because of them, but we've gotta start putting those behaviors in place for them to actually take effect.

And people are scared of going to a therapist. Well, 

[00:38:13] Katie: they've gotta be vulnerable. 

[00:38:14] John: So we're so closed off and put our head in the sand. the combination of things that we do. I don't think for any moment we're saying we've got this plan where we know what's gonna give someone the best chance of recovery.

simple as that. If I say to somebody, you've got kidney failure, I see where you're at. I know where we can go and I can give you the best chance of recovering, but you also have a responsibility To do these things. In your life. then that chance is way greater.

So it's like, I would never say that I'm gonna cure somebody, but through our journeys, we can give someone the best chance if they're willing to accept it, and then do the other things that are necessary as well. 

And learn 

[00:38:56] Katie: and take that forward. 

Because we're not always gonna be there to keep them accountable or to pull them up or whatever it might be. But how are they gonna actually implement these new behaviors and continue? And that's where our knowledge comes in and help because. making these habits habitual is just so important.

[00:39:21] John: So what was the pivotal moment for you that you thought to yourself, what I'm doing right now, medically with these people isn't working and we're trying medicines and not having any effects.

I'm feeling pretty hopeless. I know what the consequences could be if it doesn't change. what happened around that time for you to go, I'm now gonna do something different. And how successful has it been? 

[00:39:45] Katie: I think there was a number of times actually when I had these feelings. one was when I was put on steroids for maybe a year and a half. Started to have liver, kidney failure. so they put me on a biologic 'cause they were like, your Crohn's is getting to a point now where it's severe and we need to look at alternative medications.

Tried several biologics and was allergic to them. one of them was called Humira. I got a really bad skin infection with that. so it was kind of really difficult 'cause it was like, why is this not working on my body to start with?

I looked like I had boils all over my skin and I had, severe. Psoriasis on my eyelids as well. it was impacting me physically and emotionally and also appearance wise. it was really painful.

[00:40:37] John: Am I right in thinking that the biologics are really a way to disable your immune system?

[00:40:42] Katie: yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they do. Yeah. So the Humira injection actually suppresses your entire immune system, so whole body. So that wasn't working 'cause I couldn't cope with it 'cause I was in such a weak position.

So they moved me onto vedolizumab. So I would go into hospital as, you know, every eight weeks and into rheumatology and get put on a drip for hour and a half. that, was. Just targeting my gut. Better in terms of, I wasn't having any reactions to it, although my hair fell out and I would literally pass out every time I'd have the infusion in hospital because my blood pressure would drop so low 

I would just pass out whilst I was having the infusion. six years later I was still having it. It took about a year to start working. Which was crazy. And then six years later, I was still having these side effects and I still was suffering and I was still having flare ups and the hospital was still saying, we've gotta put you on Prednisolone as well.

And then I was like, well, I'm having these side effects. it was affecting my training, it was affecting my life. I didn't wanna socialize anymore and you want to put me on predisolone

you know what I look like? When I was on Predisolone, it was like, I was competing in bodybuilding and it was rough. Yeah. Like my a ALT was above 400. It was crazy. 

[00:42:05] John: Yeah. It was nuts. Yeah. 

[00:42:05] Katie: Yeah. So I just got to a point, I think it was almost like breaking point for me where I was like, this isn't working.

I've been going through it for, 11 years at this point? I just had enough and I knew I had the tools in my toolbox to help me heal myself. I just needed to do it. it's almost like you are kind of fear mongered by the hospital into thinking there is no alternative.

This is it for you. they don't even entertain other avenues. So I just had to put the trust into myself looking back, having this buildup of resilience over the years of going through all these tests, getting over all these trauma things actually amounted to me. Being able to have the strength to 

Break away and being like, do you know what? I'm actually gonna take myself off all this medication. And I'm gonna do this my way. And, it's so fulfilling now that I help other people do the same, because I don't want them to get to that breaking point that I experienced. 

[00:43:08] John: that point you made about feeling almost, if you don't follow. The medical advice, then you are doing something so heinous. 

You're throwing your life away. which is a really big thing to overcome. even if you're knowledgeable, you always have that doubt in your head that, you're doing something against the grain. unfortunately the medical industry not being disparaging 'cause it does great jobs, but they can talk as though something's a foregone conclusion.

It's like, this is what's gonna happen. These are the prognosis of where you're gonna be Then that's it. But I have a lot of conversations with people who just say, gps wanna put me on drugs immediately. And I'm, I'm like, okay, 

[00:43:48] Katie: You probably get it a lot with statins.

[00:43:50] John: And blood pressure medication.

[00:43:51] Katie: And it's like, why are you putting that individual on statins when the side effects are so horrendous? Yet realistically, it's only gonna add what, maximum 30 days onto your life. Possibly. why would you put that patient through that?

[00:44:04] John: So it's an interesting question Statins and blood pressure medication have their place. But what these people seem to forget, when I look at their blood work, I'm like, mate, your house is on fire. it's burning down as we're talking. And you want to go off to the lake and get a bucket of water and throw it on.

And your house will probably burn down by the time you've got the water you need. So the gps like going, okay, that's lifestyle. So your blood pressure's super high, your cholesterol is super high and you're in a real mess. So we need to get you to do more cardio, eat better food, all these things.

Those people aren't gonna do that. And at least it's gonna take at least six months for those changes to kick in. 

[00:44:44] Katie: And also they don't give them the support that they need To make those changes. it's all well and good. Like even when my gastro said, you need to change your lifestyle.

Okay, well what does that even mean? How do I start? where do I go for help? is there help? you don't even think of these things at the time. You're just like, yeah, yeah, of course. What does that look like?

[00:45:02] John: And for the people that have no idea what lifestyle change actually is.

the doctor will go, okay, I've got this patient that will be back in about three weeks with the same problems. I'll give him blood pressure medication and statins because I wanna get an effect. Whereas it would be better to do cardio and eat better and do the things.

But it's like right now your house is on fire and I've got a fire extinguisher right in front of me. Am I gonna send you off to the lake or give you the fire extinguisher? So unfortunately, a lot of people put themselves in the position through the lack of knowledge or education because they just don't read enough, or they just don't wanna do the work.

There's a combination of things. doctors sometimes are forced down this narrow like corridor of going, here are some drugs to help you not die now, but I want you to go away and do some changes to your lifestyle and in a few months they will be better and you can come off them. But that never happens.

That part never happens. So because the person doesn't engage with like more activity and cardio and stuff. So there's a difficulty on both sides 

[00:45:59] Katie: and then it comes into the fact of people are so hesitant to invest in themselves. 

[00:46:04] John: Yeah. 

[00:46:05] Katie: There's a real stopper for people. Mm-hmm. Like people don't even wanna go to the dentist. No, they don't. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And yet alone get a PT or, learn about nutrition, learn how to lose weight effectively for longevity.

Instead of doing these wild crush diets that are cheaper but ultimately they're spending more money 'cause they're having to keep going on them because they're just yo-yoing back to where they were before. 

Yeah.

[00:46:30] John: Yeah, they're And sustainable plans 

[00:46:32] Katie: And it's like they just don't want to spend the initial money to actually get that knowledge so they can implement it for their whole life.

Instead, they'd rather do smaller increments throughout their entire life and spend god knows how much more. 

[00:46:47] John: Yeah. I think it's that judgment call, about how much you really want something. And I think people can say they want it a lot, but they don't really want it.

And when they say to people, I want to achieve what you've done, reverse my kidney issues or whatever, or not be on medication for my Crohn's and have no symptoms. I say, that's cool. We can do this, this, this, and this, but it's gonna be a huge amount of effort For you to do that, but it will become normal.

that sometimes I think is some of the frustration I find because I know that person can be Well, I know it and I'm like, I want this for you so much, but it doesn't matter how much I want it, I can want it for you a thousand percent. you can't do the work for them.

telling our stories, letting people understand them is about hope and inspiration. the action comes from them. I just, you try and package Your story in a way that will inspire 'em to make those steps. And I think that is really, really important.

[00:47:43] Katie: how fulfilling is it when you get a client and they do the work amazing. And they get the results and I say to them you should be so proud of yourself. 

Because you are actually doing the work that you need to do and,you are getting the results and living the life that you wanted to live when you first came to me 

Yeah. And it's just so beautiful. 

[00:48:02] John: one of the things I found that was, interesting in my development as a person, it's been years. I remember the first time I heard someone say they were proud of me and I almost fell over because I've never heard it before. Never.

Like people talk about, like, no one's ever loved me and this kind of stuff. And it was the first time someone said, I'm proud of you. I couldn't catch my breath. I'm like, sorry, what? What was that? And that word was so interesting. I think a lot of people. Don't do things to make themselves proud.

And I think when we are in a place where we've helped someone accomplish a really big goal, we can be proud of them and they can be proud of themselves . and it's just so interesting where that lies, not in a prideful negative way, last year, one of my biggest achievements, obviously dealing with health and stuff, and that's improving, which is great.

And then I got diagnosed with like possible tongue cancer, which was interesting. And, had the end of my tongue cough, which was somewhat painful. and it was, I thought there be some like crazy, like technological kind of like surgery that goes into place. It really isn't that at all.

It's a guy. Or a lady, a nurse with a garden blow that pulls your tongue and they literally just stab you, with 17 injections and then cut your tongue off. It's crazy. And they stitch it up. It's like that's, its like medieval shit. 

[00:49:19] Katie: Does it go back?

[00:49:20] John: eventually? Yeah, but I tell you what, you don't wanna be when you got 14 stitches in the end of your tongue 

That's the worst. So that was a crazy set of, complications at this point in time, but it's like, and then I decided doesn't wanna do a bodybuilding show. And people would go, oh, you should be really proud of yourself. Or someone as old as you doing a bodybuilding show.

believe it or not, getting on an MRI scanner, was a massive deal for me. So it's like sometimes even the smallest things, it's like you had to be on an MRI scanner Ever it's been, so I had to go onto a jumbo one, like a proper one.

it was called a donut because I felt like one, it was just, it is a nightmare. They don't have it anymore, so there's no choice. So I have to go on a real MRI scanner and they're like, oh, we'll just give it a trial run.

Get on it. It's like I'm in there for three minutes and I'm panicking already. And they're like, we're just gonna be there for about An hour. And I'm like, get me out. This is it. I'm done I was so disappointed in myself 'cause it's almost like a physical thing I want to try and achieve.

But I just Couldn't do it. So I worked long and hard with my therapist. And then last year I managed to do the MRI scanner for an hour. And I even did it with my eyes open, which was like, I'm gonna nail this. and it's like that was the biggest thing last year as an achievement.

You know, I get a lot of pride from my clients succeeding. personally that was the biggest thing. sometimes it's the smallest thing that is the most rewarding even going through stuff that we've been through when we see our clients make even small steps 

We're like these nurturing parents so happy. This is working. 

[00:50:46] Katie: It's the dopamine hit that they get as well. Massive. That adds to the healing journey.

[00:50:51] John: Without a doubt. And they can pay it forward as well.

[00:50:53] Katie: What's one thing you think everyone listening should start doing today? To take control of their health. 

[00:50:59] John: wake up in the morning and think about what you're gonna do for yourself, but not in a selfish way. 

just take an extra five, 10 minutes to get outta bed and have a moment where you sit and think, what am I gonna do for me today? 

[00:51:15] Katie: Thank you. And this is that, this has been studies where patients have improved their chronic illness 

Just by taking 15 minutes out for themselves. Yeah. it's that accountability of someone saying, this is what you need to do. you don't have a choice. This is a non-negotiable. You need to do it. This is a boundary. and the results are incredible.

[00:51:36] John: When I tell some people to not train for two weeks, they are in a mess. 'cause they're like, can't train for two weeks. I'm like, no, nothing. Do nothing. Go on holiday with your family and just don't train. 

And they're like, sorry, what? They can't get into their headset. It's the hardest thing they've done in years. and it's like, but we are human beings, not human doings. So just be And that moment, or that 15 minutes or whatever it is, where you can just be, and it's you in the moment with yourself thinking about what you can do for yourself.

In a really positive way. 

[00:52:06] Katie: I think that was one of the reasons why my health kept spiraling because I was on this train of just work, gym, ride, sleep, minimal work, gym you get so carried away with your routine. You don't know how to slow down. And that is a skill in itself.

Yeah. That not many people know how to do, especially when you've got children and mm-hmm. You work and have so many things on your plate, knowing how to slow down and Yeah. It's a big deal. Mm-hmm. It's a big deal. 

[00:52:43] John: Yeah. But it is interesting as well, if you take breaks from training, for example, and you think, what do other people do with themselves?

Like, I spend maybe an hour in the gym, four days a week, and it's like, okay, now I'm not doing that. What am I gonna do with myself? I got all this time I can do anything I want. And it's like so many people say, I don't have the time to train. I'm like, what are you doing 

You are watching Netflix or Instagram or some other stuff. I mean, there's value to some of those things, When your screen time is outrageous. you can be doing something more productive. 

[00:53:16] Katie: let's zoom out and have a look at your schedule right now. 

and see what you can fit in and when,

[00:53:20] John: I wonder what the result would be if you said to somebody, we had a bunch of people in the room for example, say it's 30 people in an audience, and you say, what was your screen time last week? 

That'd have no idea. Right. Because it tells you But no one pays attention to it. Right. And it's, pretty huge. what do you think you could have done with those hours? Because they're hours, not minutes. If you'd have even spent that just on yourself. Crazy.

Yeah. So I had a two year abstinence. I came off Instagram for two years, for a whole bunch of reasons. And I think it was a different topic of conversation, but that plays into like where you are of your personal wellbeing And how you feel about yourself and where you fit in the world.

And our peer groups are super important in our development. And your peer group opens up. to the entire nation Of people on Instagram. And then you are comparing yourself to other people. Creating views and opinions about other people you don't even know. And some of them aren't positive.

And people are doing the same for you. it's really difficult sometimes to remember whatever comments you get, they're based upon that guy's or that girl's idea of who you are, not actually who you really are 

[00:54:29] Katie: and their own insecurities.

[00:54:30] John: So I think some of it can be, having breaks from that stuff and just spending that extra five minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes on yourself.

So important. fortunately that period of time when I came off Instagram was when I got that diagnosis, I just went, I'm done with this, I'm gonna stop this. came off Instagram literally felt freer straight away. And then I. Had time for myself, then I got the news and all those things took place it almost freed me up to allow myself to heal.

But obviously Instagram is part, again, this is where you learn to manage your stresses and deal with the stress that you are having in daily life. Instagram is a fundamental business tool for many people. And you can't not have it. And so social media, but it's having, strategies in how to use it effectively.

So it's a benefit rather than a negative part of your life . and I think there's no one doing that really .addictions, are usually a male problem. when we think about gambling, pornography, alcoholism, sex addiction in general, these things tend to be with men.

Addictions for women are really low now. We have Netflix addictions, social media addictions, and these tend to be more female than male, so it is hitting a different category of people. so interesting. how that has shifted but there's no one doing work on how to not be addicted to our technology.

It's crazy. 

[00:55:59] Katie: Maybe that's something else you can do. How not to do,

[00:56:02] John: Yeah. How to navigate technology .because it has its great points and it's, bad points.that's my answer anyway, I'd spend time for yourself. 

[00:56:11] Katie: People get sucked into the amount of misinformation with social media. And that just contributes to Negative health outcomes. 

[00:56:20] John: this is one of the problems with medicine a clinical paper comes out. Someone's gonna post the abstract, someone reads the abstract and they think they understand the entire part of the study.

And the study is multifaceted. when I was in medicine, we took a whole week of training to understand how to read a clinical paper. It is a skill because when you start to do medicine, you're speaking a different language. Everything's said differently.

when someone goes to the hospital, they're like, sorry, you said what? I understand what the consultant's saying because he's speaking another language. I think it's equal to three languages, understanding medical terminology. and then someone sees an abstract on Instagram and goes, yep, I fully understand that clinical paper.

Yeah. And then starts talking about it and it's like, there's another one just comes out 10 minutes later that says the opposite. And then it's just all over the place. And it's kind of feeding the wrong kind of conclusions about many things. And then we get very muddled up by stuff. 

[00:57:11] Katie: also people taking it for face value. they'll read a clinical study and be like, well, they're just so rigid in their opinion now, and they're so closed to, actually, a study might be in the mix right now that says something different. But what are you gonna do then?

Are you gonna Change your opinion? Like they're just so inflexible. And you actually. Taught me that because just because this paper says one thing doesn't necessarily mean it's always gonna be that way. There's always studies being done and the outcome might actually be completely different.

so as a practitioner, you've always gotta have that openness to things changing. 

[00:57:51] John: Yeah. completely. one of the things we were taught as a scientist is that you need to be ready to drop any idea or belief when there's in the presence of new, new information. Yeah. There's new evidence that supersedes your old belief system that's gotta go.

And so many people just can't do that because they're so invested into what they believe for the last five years or longer. They're not able to change their new belief. 

[00:58:18] Katie: And also a level of like, maybe a bit of embarrassment.

From not knowing Or being wrong. 

[00:58:27] John: No one likes to be wrong. But that's where you find the best, practitioners and the best coaches, the best, like medics will go, I was wrong. Or I don't know. And they're happy to say that. And I think the people that say I don't know, are the people you can trust because they're being genuinely honest 

it's not a lack of information. We haven't got enough evidence to support that. And there's a lot we don't know. So we can extrapolate data and see what we think it means. but that's why further research is needed. 

Or not understanding stuff entirely and not being able to drop the old premises that pressure is with medicine trying to argue against it when we are saying, I wanna do something different. I wanna try something else. There's a system of ways of doing things, which is so indoctrinated that you feel you're doing the wrong thing not to do it.

Yeah. So probably very interesting. 

[00:59:17] Katie: For people listening who want to connect with us more, what's the best way to dive deeper into what we do 

[00:59:23] John: find us on social media? if you go to Ministry of Iron, that is my, Instagram page for bodybuilding training and then . John Buckland coaching is where I work with dysfunctional people, from kidney failure to sexual dysfunction, PCOS, all kinds of different areas of dysfunction we can look at and help get people working better again.

So with the right interventions we can change that and on. KLK, 

[00:59:54] Katie: yeah. KLK Nutrition ,