PJs and Pokey: Reflections, Perspective & Our Sisterhood

Episode Summary:
Curled up in pajamas with bowls of popcorn (affectionately called "pokey" by their late mother), sisters Kellie and Erin launch a brand-new PJs & Pokey series—an ongoing space for relaxed, heartfelt conversations about what they’re learning, how this journey is changing them, and the moments that matter most.

In this first PJs & Pokey episode, they take a step back to reflect on the unexpected lessons, deep conversations, and personal transformations that have unfolded through the first four episodes of The P-I-G. What began as a podcast to explore life, love, loss, and legacy has evolved into something far greater—an opportunity to reconnect, heal, and better understand each other in ways they never anticipated.

Through tears, laughter, and raw honesty, they discuss:

• Beating the Podcast Odds—Most shows don’t make it past episode three, but THE P-I-G is thriving!
• Memorable Moments & Takeaways—From Chris Howard’s powerful insights on legacy to Marcus & Jason’s personal journeys through love and loss, and Wendy Cohen’s unimaginable strength in the wake of her daughter’s tragic abduction and murder.
• Healing Their Sisterhood— After grieving in very different ways, maturity and launching this podcast has reconnected them in ways they never expected. 
• Lessons from SXSW—Strangers deeply resonated with their message, validating the importance of storytelling, connection, and sharing conversations about life, love, loss, and legacy.
• What’s Next on The P-I-G—A look ahead at upcoming episodes, including family stories, expert insights, and listener experiences.

“The greatest gift of all, the greatest gift that she gave either of us, is each other.”  This episode is raw, real, and deeply personal. Whether you’ve been with them since Episode 1 or you’re just tuning in, it’s a reminder that healing happens through connection, conversations change lives, and sometimes, the greatest gift of all is each other.

Chapters

• 0:10 Welcome to PJs and Pokey
• 1:28 Celebrating Our Podcasting Milestones
• 8:51 Takeaways from Chris Howard Conversation
• 16:30 Marcus and Jason's Powerful Perspectives
• 24:23 Wendy's Story of Devastating Loss
• 35:13 Our Sisterhood Reconnection Journey
• 43:26 The South by Southwest Experience
• 1:12:13 Upcoming Episodes and Building Community

Transcript

Kellie: 0:10

Welcome back to the PIG. I'm Kellie.

Erin : 0:13

And I'm Erin. Today, we're bringing you something new: our first of many "PJs and Pokey episodes. What in the world, you ask? Well, even though you can't see us, we're cozied up in our PJs with an overflowing bowl of pokey, what our mom called popcorn when we were growing up.

Kellie: 0:32

These special sister chats are where we're going to let loose a little bit, talk about what's on our minds, share thoughts about past conversations, dive into what we've learned along the way, recap listener feedback, explore future topics and so much more.

Erin : 0:49

And wow, we already have a lot to unpack. Today, in addition to some relaxed, fun and raw conversation, we'll be revisiting key moments from our first four episodes, talking about what this journey has meant to us personally and, of course, sharing highlights from our incredible time at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas.

Kellie: 1:10

So, if you're no t in the the car, out for a hike or listening on the go, hit pause, get comfy and grab your very favorite beverage. Welcome to PJ's and Pokey on The P-I-G!

Kellie & Erin: 1:48

Okay, Erin, knowing you as well as I do, and in honor of our many P-I and G words, I sure hope you're sipping on a pina colada or a pineapple mojito right now. I should have made a pineapple mojito or a pina colada. That would have been absolutely perfect. P is for perfect. That would have been absolutely perfect. P is for perfect. Yes, P is for perfection, something that I am so trying to let go of as we dive into all of these incredible episodes on the PIG. But seriously, can you believe we've already recorded and released our first four episodes? It seems like just yesterday we were exploring this possibility as the boxes story really started to unfold, and wondering how in the world and going to get started. Yes, we had a way.

Kellie & Erin: 2:50

A nd conversations about what this was going to look like, and it shouldn't surprise either of us that it really hasn't looked like what we thought it was going to look like. No, it hasn't looked like. And we it was . Yes, no, it hasn't looked like. We're going to talk about that today. You know some of the lessons that we've learned along the way, and I want to apologize in advance to our listeners if they hear us crunching in their ear, because I ! (Kellie) A nd to tell you that I can't stop eating this popcorn. It's so good. Oh my goodness, I'm sorry. This pokey, this pokey, it's delicious. We are eating different popcorn, we are in different parts of the United States but enjoying it together. And yes, I'll try not to crunch In our listeners ears. o(Erin) Ha, ha. (Kellie)

Kellie & Erin: 4:12

(Erin) So will mute my microphone when I shove handfuls of popcorn in my mouth and if you're like Marcus, you'll have I-- like all down the front and Scott. In fact home-- I keep telling him I'm going to get him one of the hood Checkers with Mom; the front. You just like pour all the popcorn in the hood that you're wearing backwards. spent so much time at the lake in our 20s and 30s when I was in my water skiing heyday and we wore life jackets upside down and backwards so we could float in the water while drinking our cocktails without spilling them everywhere. It reminds me of horse like feeders. You know that they just strap onto the horse, like the feed buckets that they just strap onto their neck(Kellie) I Brilliant, actually, we all need that for popcorn. But anyhow, our poor listeners already are like what have we gotten ourselves into with this episode five? Well, Reis this is going to be a lot of fun. This is where we're going to play and have a good time. So why don't you tell the listeners the story of Pokey. So Pokey is what our mom called popcorn and it was a favorite. I remember so many nights of her and I especially after you had left home, scott had left

Kellie & Erin: 5:40

(Erin) I home I have so many memories of popping popcorn and playing . Scrabble with mom that was,... ... checkers, that was what we did so much. But she loved popcorn. She absolutely almost always made it on the stove. She made stovetop popcorn. She had one of those stovetop popcorn poppers where you would crank The P-I-G, you know, and(Kellie) Yeah you'd put in the oil and the popcorn and it would pop on the stovetop. So that was

Kellie & Erin: 4:57

really fun. I now have an air popper I know you do as well and that's how I make my popcorn. But that's how we grew up eating it was stovetop popcorn. I think I actually may have inherited that original stovetop popcorn popper with Erin handle. I think that's what I used for a really long time and I know that Reese and Lily probably have memories and recollection of that particular popcorn popper when they were growing !. Now I have one of those old fashioned ones that you 20, a nd and you put the oil in the bottom and it has that dome over the top and it like pops that way, and so, anyhow, that's the pokey that I'm eating today. I love that. I will say that mom would absolutely love

Kellie & Erin: 5:45

this Cozy chats, popcorn, storytelling, podcasting it's totally her vibe and it is so fun to be on the airwaves just like she was, in a different way and sharing these moments with you. So I love that we officially launched PJs and Pokey on the PIG in (Erin) Oh honor. Yeah, and I couldn't agree more, and we're going to have a lot of fun with this. To kick things off today, I wanted to share something with you. So to honor my insatiable intellectual driving force, which more I words, I pulled some fun podcasting statistics to celebrate the fact that we're even doing this at all, and, erin, you're going to love this. . A also I Texas

Kellie & Erin: 8:06

(Erin) I 90% of podcasts don't make it past episode number three and of the 10% remaining, 80% don't make it past episode 10. So we're halfway there. That's a huge accomplishment. And 90% won't make it past number 20. And I know we're going to do that and go so much further. On average, it takes two years and 100 episodes before podcasters start seeing real results. Only 11% of all podcasts ever launched anywhere around the world make it to 50 episodes. (Kellie) HARD WORK

Kellie & Erin: 9:38

(Kellie) To here's the good news We've made it to episode five. We're already seeing results and receiving incredible feedback. We have the best accountability partners in each other and, above everything else, we're doing this from our hearts, with a strong vision of purpose, intention and gratitude. Oh, wow, that is so incredible. Well, I will say that I am very proud of us for being in In Episode One that have made it past episode three athlete, and and, yes, like you said, we are well on our way to go. Above and The beyond Boxes Episode, I am so deeply touched by the response that we have already received, both from people we know who knew about this project and have supported us through its infancy into launch, and also I know we'll talk about this, we referenced it in the intro about all the new people that we have Episodes Two shared just Three in the last couple of weeks, especially at Marcus South by who is in 20+, and the incredible response we've gotten. So I'm very proud of being, us.

Kellie & Erin: 11:23

(Erin) Thank you so much. I am really looking forward to this conversation as we relive and recap these four incredible episodes that are already behind us. Episode, I am so deeply touched by the response that we have already received, both from people we know who knew about this project and have supported us through its infancy into launch, and also I know we'll talk about this, we referenced it in the intro about all the new people that we have Episodes Two shared just Three in the last couple of weeks, especially at Marcus South by who is in 20+, and the incredible response we've gotten. So I'm very proud of being, us. And it was

Kellie & Erin: 12:37

(Kellie) Yeah am very competitive in nature, and so those statistics drive me to keep putting one foot in front of the other and reaching our next achievements and to keep things going. But more than that, more than the statistics, is knowing how many people we have already touched through these episodes and how much more is yet to come, and the hearts that are going to be changed, the The that roject going to be impacted, and the continued conversations of life, love, loss and legacy episode we are going to have. We are just getting started. We are just getting started, and everything that you just talked about really is giving us fuel to keep on keeping on when the going gets tough, and whoever said podcasting was easy was full of it. This is hard work but, if anything, it has proven to me how much strength, resilience, perseverance has been (Erin) I in who you and I are as human beings, and that comes from all of the upbringing that we've had, the mother who raised us, all of the experiences that we've had in life, through love, with loss, and everything that we've experienced. And we're going to talk a lot about that, not in today's episode, but we are going to lay a little bit of a foundation about where we're going in future episodes.

Kellie & Erin: 9:38

To kick off today's PJs and Pokey episode, I thought it would be really great for us (Kellie) It talk about some of our biggest takeaways from the first four episodes, what stood out, bit, but us and what really resonated. So, to just give a quick recap for listeners who haven't listened to the first four episodes, and we do encourage you to go back and listen to them. Episode one we talked to Chris Howard, former athlete film and television producer that we've been working with on bringing what we're calling right now the boxes story to life, and that is really the legacy story of what our mom did, knowing that she was going to miss very meaningful milestone moments in our lives before she died 30 years ago, and so we'll talk a little bit about that conversation with Chris and takeaways that we had from that. Episodes number two and three were a two-part series with my husband, marcus Straub, who's a 20-plus year life and business coach, a remarkable warrior of a human being and all the experiences he's been through in his life, and your boyfriend, jason, who is one of Chris's best friends and also was the person who really brought us to where we are today. And then our fourth episode with your dear friend, wendy Cohen, whose daughter, lacey, was abducted and murdered over 20 years ago in Fort Collins, colorado. These are four really, really powerful episodes. So, erin, I'm going to kick it off to you to get us started. Thank you so much. I am really looking forward to this conversation as we relive and recap these four incredible episodes that are already behind us.

Kellie & Erin: 11:23

Episode one with Chris Howard was remarkable. Bringing this story to life with him and his palpable passion Merging for Veterans the timing Players and the potential impact that this story can have on others is really incredible. He shared with us really openly about his personal life, love and loss experiences and through that, shared several different types of loss, and we have talked about from the beginning how loss is not just (Erin) Yes. Loss comes in so many different sizes and shapes and forms, and Chris shares about the loss of his football career as a star athlete at the University of Michigan and then being drafted into the NFL and then, so injury, having basically being forced into early retirement. He shares the loss of his father, the loss of his first marriage. Really incredible to have a conversation with him about the impact that working on this(Kellie) Yeah project and us has already had on him and his own viewpoint of legacy and what that really means. (Kellie) So, I thought it was great when he was talking about legacy as an ever-present reminder

Kellie & Erin: 12:43

of somebody's life and love when their absence becomes part. W ow. The . Right, that absence could be through the shifting of relationships or, obviously, death and Erin. But I loved that concept that he really explored and wanting to really bring that to the forefront with other people through storytelling and particularly through the Boxes Project with you and I, air, and I want listeners to go back and listen to the episodes so that they can really hear directly from Chris about that. But I also really loved his exploration of grief as an opportunity for growth, to self-evaluate, to look at who we were and who we want to be, and that it's okay for grief to inspire and encourage us to accept change and to channel that into something really powerful versus being something that can sink you. (Erin) I love that and, along with that, really how we can allow loss to reshape us, to become more confident and strong and to build and

Kellie & Erin: 13:53

expand our empathy. h s i a I g i o a s n o m d i c a t i can t g i g a s a y."(Kellie) .... s....

Kellie & Erin: 13:56

Grief and loss in all of its forms allows us to be and to become more human. It does, and I think that we're going to talk about this in just a little bit. But that statement right there of grief allowing us to be and become more human is really an integral part of what's happened with you and I through the launching of this podcast, working on this project, really being open and honest about the disconnect that started to become a part of our lives and the reconnection that we have nurtured and really been very purposeful in creating through this whole process. So I look forward to exploring that even more. That theme came up in episodes two and three with Marcus and Jason, and also in episode four with Wendy, and I think that those common themes across all the episodes is one of the biggest takeaways for me so far, and it'll be fun to continue to see how those themes take shape as we go.

Kellie & Erin: 20:45

(Erin) As last thing that I thought was so awesome about that episode with Chris was learning about the merging veterans and players, the MVP program that he's become a part of, and understanding how similar service and sports actually are and how veterans and athletes have, together, through this incredible program, learned to travel the road of loss and change and releasing expectation, together with such incredible support and encouragement. Yes, that MVP program is"comparison really incredible and I had no idea that it existed, and so that was really wonderful to learn about, and there are details about the MVP program in the show notes from that first episode. So I do want to encourage our listeners to go back and, of course, listen to episode one, but click on that link and go check out the incredible work that Merging Veterans and Players is doing. Yeah, in sneak peek, we're going to have experts from MVP on future episodes of the podcast. So, without giving it all away, we do want to encourage you to stay tuned for that.

Kellie & Erin: 16:30

So, episodes two and three with Marcus and Jason wow, the men behind the women, behind the woman behind the boxes. I have to tell you, erin, I shared this with so many people at South by that we're going ahead, to talk about South by specifically as we keep going, but what a breath of fresh air to hear the depth and the breadth of the stories that these men strong, authentic, resilient, vulnerable men shared with us as partners, fathers, leaders. They talked about their careers, they talked about being fathers, what that means to them. They talked openly and honestly about their past relationships and their relationships with us. The loss of family members and parents in a way that I don't think you often hear men talk about, especially publicly. I completely agree. It was really impactful and I know that it was impactful for listeners. We've gotten a lot of feedback on that so far. ...

Kellie & Erin: 23:28

(Erin) I was a really incredible conversation and there are so many key quotes and takeaways from those episodes. One of the things that Marcus said and I wrote it down when you choose to and I just think that is so beautiful it is a choice. And so often in the moment, especially when you're in the throes of grief, it doesn't feel like you have a choice to do anything else but grieve. But through the time and work and effort you can realize that you do have a choice on how you view that grief and that loss. And that was a really beautiful statement that deeply resonated with me. It's a powerful statement and as we talk about all different types of loss and the different types of grief that come with different types of losses and this is very poignant because you and I have been very open in the fact that through this process we have learned, with empathy and understanding and I would say more have become fully aware than learned that due to our age difference I'm seven years older and you are the exact same age now 47, that mom was when she passed Seven years ago, I was 47. So I get it that was such a weird milestone but that we processed our grief very, very differently, and we talk about this in the episodes coming up until now, but I also think it's going to be part of this conversation, especially as we take a dive into the reconnection that we've experienced as sisters and how awesome that has been and what a gift that has been as part of this journey.

Kellie & Erin: 19:41

I think that Marcus's work as a professional coach over the last 20 plus years and his gift is really playing in the nuances of people's lives. Right, you know, there's what people tell you with their words. There's what they tell you with their body language and tone. There's what is told to you through the assessments that they take and the specific circumstances that they're in, whether that's personal or professional. That concept of being able to turn grief into gratitude anytime you choose to is something that I know I have embraced in my life and that you have embraced in your life, and I really hope that our listeners are able to grab a hold of the power of that nugget(Kellie) I'm of wisdom, because that really is wise Erin absolutely and to understand that there are no rules when it comes to how different individuals move through and to the other side of grief.

Kellie & Erin: 20:45

As you referenced, we're all raised differently, we have different behaviors and beliefs, and so embracing that concept and giving yourself permission to move through that space in "he timeframe that you need to take to move through that space and giving yourself grace and permission to grieve the way that you need to grieve and I love that Wendy actually said this in her episode which is don't make your grief my grief. You know, comparison is the thief of joy. I know that is a quote that you and I have shared in so many different aspects of our lives over the years. Comparison is the thief of joy and even comparing my grief to your grief is not a healthy thing to do. We need to give ourselves permission to grieve the way that we need to grieve. Yeah, that's really important, erin, and I would say another one of the great takeaways I had from the episodes with Marcus and Jason was this concept of regret, and in Wendy's episode it was the concept of guilt. So we'll talk about that in a minute because they're two different things.

Kellie & Erin: 21:59

Laurie there was a point where Jason talked about having some regrets and Marcus then talked about comparing regret to road signs and that the road signs exist to direct you in different places. You know, exit here, exit. You know so many miles ahead and that if we can see regret as a road sign and, I think, guilt too. So if we take that kind of analogy and we apply it across the board, if The P-I-G the process of life, love, loss and legacy we have these emotional road signs regret, guilt or uncomfortable lack of confidence, whatever it might be if we can use that as a sign to stop, take a deep breath, reflect, tap into our empathy and our emotional intelligence to say is this how I want to feel moving forward from here? Is this in my best interest? Is this going to be helpful for the situation? Is this going to affect other people that are around me my spouse, my sister, my children, my grandchild now and use those road signs to help us make better choices as human beings that create a ripple effect and have a positive impact, not just in our own lives internally and externally, but in the lives of everybody that we touch on a day in and day out basis.

Kellie & Erin: 23:28

I Pop, that. That's incredible and so beautiful. I completely agree. The All P-I-G, of that resonates with me and I love it. a t f o t l t m a p part pf their living legacy . A I s i i M w R a l L j l.; T. A(Erin) Before we move on to episode four and Wendy, I also want to take a minute because we do share stories of life, love, loss and legacy, and there was a lot shared in that episode about loss and legacy and grief and so many things around that. But one of the things that I really want to make sure that we point out, that was so incredible and that hopefully resonates with our listeners, is both Marcus and Jason's extreme passion for family and fatherhood and the impact of that commitment and our understanding of how important being an active and engaged father actually is, and they share really openly about that passion for family and fatherhood and it's a really beautiful gift. I'm going to tag something on here, erin, because I believe this is an important thing for us to bring to the surface. We have alluded to it in a few of our early episodes, but I'm just going to talk about it openly and honestly and upfront. The reason that family and fatherhood are so important to you and I is that we have a biological father and we have an adopted father. .

Kellie & Erin: 24:56

It's father relationship is a really painful part, quite honestly, of our experience, especially for me, because I'm seven years older. I The had Boxes a very close he was my hero relationship with our biological father. That changed very dramatically when our parents got divorced. I was about 11 or 12, which means you were four or five super young. Our mom went into her throes of cancer as a single mom.. A nd talked about her history in the first episode, but our connection to and our father, with our biological father really ended at that point. It became, I will say, very, very strained and he divorced, some choices Mom that are Pop his choices alone, because we were children, right, referenced, were kind of along for the ride and we were in the throes of a really tough situation. It was very hard and we'll probably spend some time really unpacking this, because it's a huge loss in my world and I know that it's a big loss in your world. At the same time, within a couple of years of that situation unfolding, we had the gift of a stepdad coming into our lives, which brought a stepbrother, and when they came into our world, they and our grandparents had experienced a devastating loss because Lori had died in a car accident with her two best friends.

Kellie & Erin: 26:27

Lori is Pop's daughter and Scott's sister, six years older than me, 13 years older than you. When we all came together, it was just this instant family and we really all filled this very special place of emptiness in each other's hearts. I don't know how to describe it other than it was really more of a spiritual and emotional experience. It was all about feeling and presence and connection, which is the very core of the PIG podcast, He's and through that process, you and I were eventually legally adopted. In fact, I was adopted over the age of 18. So I graduated high school with one name and went to college with a new name, a new driver's license, a new birth certificate and a new social security (Kellie) He.

Kellie & Erin: 27:18

And Pop who I look forward to having on many episodes of the boxes because we have a lot to discuss and a lot to explore In every sense of the word has been more of a father than I ever could imagine anybody else being. We are not biologically or genetically related, but we are the epitome of"high family and of fathers and daughters, and I feel so unbelievably blessed to have him in our life, to be loved to the depth of his being as daughters and to have had this experience. So all that to say and that was quite a tangent that this concept of family and fatherhood and watching Marcus and Jason specifically put fatherhood, like I feel it in my heart and life as a mother to Savannah and now Kiki, to Rain, her daughter, and I know you feel the same way with Hadley and Weston and their relationship that is evolving and growing with Jason, and also Harper and her relationship that is evolving and growing with you. So, anyhow, fatherhood is a big deal. I could spend many, many hours just talking about that, but anyhow, that was a huge part of that episode for me as well. Well, I really want to thank you for sharing all of that. It was a beautiful tangent, so don't apologize for that. I am happy that you dove into that and, as you stated, I know that we will have more discussions about this and that part of our journey, those chapters of our lives, because there is a lot there and there is a lot to unpack when we're talking about life and love and loss and legacy.

Kellie & Erin: 32:55

(Kellie) Speaking sure, it's so fascinating to me as we have been on this journey together and we've had so many conversations since Lacy started working on the boxes project with Chris and really having deep, meaningful conversations about our past and 17, childhood and our upbringing and how differently we experienced ... only the loss of our mom that we have discussed, but we experience all of that early childhood very ... t here of our age difference and so, while you had so many years and a true upbringing by our biological father. I did not. I didn't have those formative years with him. I was so young when our parents got divorced and when mom married pop and we did become the instant family that you referenced. I was six years old and so he really did raise me. I am his and I know you feel that way too. . ( and. a w t w t I of .(Kellie) .

Kellie & Erin: 30:32

I'm so grateful for all of the things that Pop has done for who he is, for the man he is, for the father he is, for the incredible grandfather that he is, for the husband that he was to mom, for the husband that he is to our stepmom Katie, for all the things. He was an incredible physician. He was just an amazing pillar in our community, so well known and respected, and he still is. He's a really remarkable human being and I also look forward to having him on Lacy's podcast as a guest and having conversations with him and for introducing him to our listeners so that everyone else can be a part of celebrating the incredible human being and the incredible man that he is. He has left just as much of a living legacy as our mom left her legacy while she was alive. But you know, especially we've been really talking about this project, the boxes and the gifts that she left behind when she knew that her life was coming to an end, and the bravery and the courage to embrace that wholeheartedly. So we have so much to unpack there. I know you and Colorado I are both really high eyes and so we can get off on rabbit trails and tangents. So that is a sneak peek (Erin) Yeah what's coming up and we'll talk about some of the episodes that we have planned that are really going to start highlighting some more of our personal story and and this podcast. We want to keep reminding our listeners that this isn't just our voice about our story. This is all of our voices about all of our stories, because hearing the stories of others helps us create a meaningful connection to our own. But we are going to weave in others' stories and expert advice alongside our own experiences that have been really broad and they have involved a lot of loss, a lot of resilience, a lot of hope and a lot of healing.

Kellie & Erin: 32:55

Speaking of those four things, we Lacy would be remiss not to talk about our most recent episode with Wendy. Her daughter, lacey Jo Miller, was abducted in front of their home under a streetlight by a 23-year-old young man January 17th 2003, who pulled her Lacy over impersonating a police officer and it takes some time to just let that reality sink in. You know I can't think of many things. There are a lot of bad things in the world c"hat that is just an unbelievable reality. And one of the heartbreaking things in that episode for me with Wendy was and we talked about this a moment ago with this road sign of guilt was how do I deal with the fact as a mother that I was just 30, 50 feet away when my child was taken by somebody who my child believed with every ounce of her young being was somebody safe and that she did all the right things. She knew enough. She did all the right things. She knew enough and Wendy talks about this in the episode and Lacey was 20 years old and there was a car behind her with a flashing light and she knew enough to drive to a lit area and, like you said, parked under a streetlight across the street from her home. She had mace, she did all of the things that I will speak of. As a mom would have thought to educate and train my child to do Absolutely Her unwavering strength through that grueling 10-day experience of knowing that Lacey went missing and then them eventually finding Lacey's body at Poudre Canyon and for people who don't know, poudre Canyon is a remote canyon north of Fort Collins that runs up into the mountains.

Kellie & Erin: 35:00

The river flows all the way through Lacy. The fact that they found her was even a miracle and listen to the episode to get the full story. But her strength through all of that, her intentional connection to the man who abducted, tortured, brutalized and killed Lacey's brother, who they went to church with Wendy and Mark and the family and were there that very next day after she went missing and were praying for her and then building a relationship with his mother and encouraging her to help him make a choice to do the right thing, and the peace that all of that has brought to them. I have such incredible respect. I cannot put myself in the shoes of Wendy because, as high as I have trained my empathy to be, Lacy I have not been there. Now we have girl, and imagining so much about her life and her legacy. a(Kellie) I'm sure it has been. her in that way. Yeah, it's so interesting and that conversation with Wendy Lacy's was very powerful. It's a very heavy story. It's a story, though, that deserves to be heard.

Kellie & Erin: 36:25

I knew Wendy and I knew Lacey, Wendy-- that happened in my community as part of,! the time, the church that we all were attending. It sent a ripple through that community of shock, of fear"oh I was just Eerin's five years older than Lacey. It really is one of those stories that you see on the news, you see on Dateline or any true crime show, or you read about it or hear about it. It's a classic. That doesn't happen here, it doesn't happen to us, it doesn't happen to anybody we know, and it was very real and we knew the family. It's hard for me to go back to that place.

Kellie & Erin: 39:30

(Kellie) So, I that we heard that Lacey was Erin missing , none of it made sense and we couldn't believe that it was happening. So I want to echo everything that you shared. The depth of that loss is unimaginable and unless you've experienced it, you just have no idea. I also,(Erin) Oh as a mom, I cannot put myself in Wendy's shoes and it's impossible to imagine and think of that happening and my heart breaks for her and for that loss. But I am so deeply inspired by her resilience, her forgiveness, the love and grace and strength that she has shown literally from day one, and I know it hasn't always been easy. But it's really beautiful to see where she is at now and to listen to her beautiful remembrance of who Lacey is, who she was as a little girl and imagining just so much about you know her life and her legacy. Imagining just so much about you, know her life and her legacy I'm sure it has been, you know. I'm so in awe of Wendy's gratitude and how she continues to celebrate Lacey's life and, at the same time, hold on to this beautiful little girl that she raised and all of the wonderful attributes about who Lacey is, who Lacey would be today. I remember right after our conversation with Wendy and talk about needing to go for a walk. But I laid in bed that night and I was thinking about you and that's what came to my mind was, oh my gosh, erin's 47 now. Lacey would be 42 now. That means that Erin was only five years older than Lacey. That could have been my sister, that could have been me, that could have been anybody, and now I have a daughter who is the same age that Lacey was when she went missing. It's just really incredible how time passes and it allows us to put everything into this bigger, grander perspective. I completely agree, time is fascinating, so I have a question for you, erin.

Kellie & Erin: 39:32

So, before we move into what this journey has meant for us as sisters in these first episodes, is there anything that has come up that has changed the way that you think about love, loss and legacy in your own life? Oh yeah, there's actually been several moments and I I Lacy have personal takeaways from each episode, each conversation with Chris, with Marcus, with Jason, and the beautiful thing for you and I too is that we get to have all sorts of side conversations and recap, and there's always key moments for me. I shared one of them a little while ago. That quote from Marcus of you can turn grief (Kellie) That gratitude as soon as you choose to. That is something that I think will resonate with me for a Lacy long time. It was that impactful. You know, I also have the privilege of recapping and having conversations with Jason, and said, "she's being a guest.

Kellie & Erin: 40:37

He did share with me, Erin he listened to the episode with Wendy, how difficult that was for him to listen to, but how grateful he was for her honesty

Kellie & Erin: 43:25

(Erin) I her vulnerability, and one of the things that he shared was how beautiful it was the way that Wendy talks about Lacey, because she talks about her as if she is still alive and it's so true that you know she just talks about her as if she's in the room and how meaningful (Kellie) Because was. It was a Erin perspective that, even though I know it The and Boxes I heard it to see how deeply it touched a listener of the episode was really incredible. That is really incredible, as you were sharing that So, I was thinking about Wendy talking about the streetlights, how Lacey turns on and off the streetlights and plays with energy, and she even this wasn't included in the episode, but she even said she's going to mess with you. When you're editing, you pay attention, you watch out. Yeah, she was like if your microphone's cut out or there's glitches, I just want you to know that that is Lacey messing with electricity. I had so much fun playing with Lacey as I was editing the episode, and so that was another way of a living legacy, like showing up, and I thought it was so interesting that she talked about the streetlights going on and off, and that's where Lacey disappeared, was underneath a lit streetlight and that her light went out that night, but that her light has stayed on through two decades,(Erin) You're and so . I just thought that was a really interesting concept. Thank you for sharing that. That's actually really beautiful and poignant and I love that. (Kellie) (Kellie) I think where that really started, was W E

Kellie & Erin: 41:40

I heard it to see how deeply it touched a listener of the episode was really incredible. That is really incredible, as you were sharing that So, I was thinking about Wendy talking about the streetlights, how Lacey turns on and off the streetlights and plays with energy, and she even this wasn't included in the episode, but she even said she's going to mess with you. When you're editing, you pay attention, you watch out. Yeah, she was like if your microphone's cut out or there's glitches, I just want you to know that that is Lacey messing with electricity. I had so much fun playing with Lacey as I was editing the episode, and so that was another way of a living legacy, like showing up, and I thought it was so interesting that she talked about the streetlights going on and off, and that's where Lacey disappeared, was underneath a lit streetlight and that her light went out that night, but that her light has stayed on through two decades,(Erin) You're and so . I just thought that was a really interesting concept. Thank you for sharing that. That's actually really beautiful and poignant and I love that. (Kellie)

Kellie & Erin: 42:55

So when we come back, erin, I want to take a dive into what this journey has meant to us as sisters. I can't wait. We'll be right back. I love reflecting on all of this. It's wild to think about how much has already happened in just four Whitey. But as much as we've been talking about our guests and the impact of their stories, there's another part of this journey we haven't fully unpacked yet, and that is us, absolutely. Because, let's be real, erin, this podcast hasn't just been about the boxes, which we talked about in the first episode, and the gifts that our mom left us and our guest stories, which we really highlighted in episodes one through four, but it's also been about us as sisters, co-hosts and two people who have lived very different lives but who have always been deeply connected at the heart, yes, and this project it has challenged us, stretched us and brought us back together in ways I don't think either of us saw coming. So let's explore that and talk about what this journey has meant to us. I think the first thing we need to say is that we are both strong, independent women who, despite our differences and our difference in age, have always maintained a profound and deep love for each other. But we've also had moments in life where we've just lived in different worlds, where, as I mentioned in our first episode, I feel like we let life get in the way instead of love being at the forefront. You're exactly right Seven years apart, different experiences, different phases of life, and at times it felt like we were close in spirit and always connected at the heart, but, like you said, living completely separate realities. I think where that really started, erin, was.

Kellie & Erin: 45:14

I was that kid who had the perfect sixth year of living. I was born on June 25th, so Christmas was always my half birthday. So I was four and a half and then I was five and a half and then I was six and a half, and when I was six and a half I actually got a pony for Christmas. It's actually a really, really Allen story. So I was expecting a little sister, mom was pregnant with you and of course, I got up early on Christmas morning and ran in to see what Santa left and unpacked the boxes. ? !

Kellie & Erin: 45:46

And we grew up farm kids and so we had horses, chickens, sheep I raised sheep for 4-H. We had cows, cats, pet Chris,, The rabbits, kittens, dogs, podcast-- you name it. We had it. I always wanted point-- horse. Grandpa had this incredible horse, whitey, and if anybody has ever watched Yellowstone, we kind of grew up in a miniature version of Yellowstone. Our great-grandfather came to Western Colorado in the early 1900s with his three sons. Our grandpa was the youngest. He came over on the boat when he was Rita two years old. His two younger brothers were born here in the United States. So we(and were from this big, hot-blooded Italian family. I think that's about all I need to say. .

Kellie & Erin: 48:50

(Erin) I lived on the farm, all of our cousins were around and I was six and a half and all I wanted was a pony for Christmas and a little sister for my birthday in June, and that's exactly what I got. I remember Christmas morning that year [Insert tears.] and. (Kellie) I Don't was so disappointed because.. y ou you can't Erin a pony and that's all I really wanted. tears, I remember Alan, our father, had said to me after we got all done. And presents hey, you need to start your chores, go get your coat and boots on and go out and get the paper. And I'm thinking what the fuck it's Christmas morning, I just want to play with my toys. I'm thinking what the fuck it's Christmas morning, I just want to play with my toys. I'm sad I don't have a pony, but you know, I want to play with my toys. So I begrudgingly went and got my coat and my boots and I walked out the front door, started trudging through the snow and Snowball. My pony was tied up to the tree in the front yard. I will never forget that moment as long as I live.

Kellie & Erin: 47:28

That paled in comparison to my birthday gift, which was you, and I think that, through the process of working on this (Erin) I with Chris the Boxes and, developing know, podcast, through all the conversations that we've had leading to this point, I would love to hear from you, because my feeling is that this is the first time that you've really recognized, and I've been The Boxes communicate, how much it meant to me to have a little sister coming into my life. That's all I wanted, so much so that when our mother's parents, rita and John, came to visit right about the time that you were supposed to be born and back then you know, we just had estimated due dates, not like spot on technology driven due dates and they took me to the store to buy a present for you. And I bought a pink elephant and I remember Grandma Rita saying are you sure you want to get a pink one, because it could be a boy? And I'm like, uh-uh, no, it's not, it is a girl. And just like Wendy's mother knew that she was having a girl, I knew that I was having a girl, I was getting a little sister, I was having a girl, I was getting a little sister. .(Kellie)

Kellie & Erin: 48:50

I love that story just as much. Every single time I hear it I wish I still had that pink elephant. I am so grateful to know about how desperately you wanted me and I feel like I have felt that from you every day of my life. Sorry, don't apologize, we're both. You know, erin, you and I both shed a lot of tears and the fact of the matter is our listeners are going to hear us cry and I think it's important that we're honest and real with our emotions, because life is real and it's emotional and I think emotions are a really beautiful thing and, quite honestly, I think they're underrated.

Kellie & Erin: 49:31

I don't know that we always give ourselves enough permission to feel and express our emotions in the way that we need to. I think that is true and you know one of the comments that we have made maybe I should say it this way one of the realizations that you and I have had as we've embarked on this project and on this journey that started with the boxes story and evolved into our decision to start this podcast, is that, in all the ways that mom made it a point to show up in these milestone moments, through leaving the boxes, all the gifts, as we've lived our lives and we've gone through these periods where we've been really close and then more distant, we've worked together in different capacities and then had our own careers and done our own thing, and just through the ebbs and flows of life and love and marriages and divorces and kids and all of the things, and now living in different parts of the United States this past year that we started on this journey that marked 30 years since her passing, in all of the things, the realization that you and I have had is that it has felt like from beyond that mom finally called bullshit on any disconnect that you and I have had and that the greatest gift of all, the greatest gift that she gave either of us, is each other. That is probably the one thing that, if I had to choose, the one thing that I am most grateful for through this journey, it is that it's the realization that you are my greatest gift and that I am yours. You are my greatest gift and that I am yours, and I don't ever want to take it for granted. And we know that nothing in this life is promised, but our sisterhood is and our love for each other is, and I'm very grateful. I'm very grateful too, and in fact, when you were talking, erin, I thought purpose, intention, gratitude. We are being very purposeful, very intentional and very grateful, not for just the gifts and this opportunity, but finally for each other in a way that I'm not sure we have before.

Kellie & Erin: 52:10

For me, the deepest level of gratitude I have through this whole experience has been consciously choosing to embrace this experience with authenticity and raw vulnerability, just like we talked about those men showing up in episodes two and three. I have so much respect for that, but I have a deep level of respect for how we have done the very same thing. We agreed to go on this journey together, not knowing what it was going to require of us and what the road was actually going to look like. It was blind faith. There was hope, there was anticipation, but the clarity that has come through our conversations and through looking through pictures and going through boxes and unpacking memories has been more than I ever could have imagined. So it's been very healing for you and I to go on this journey. (Erin)

Kellie & Erin: 53:10

But here's the thing we were both open and I know that one of the things you and I both hope for other siblings who hear this podcast, or somebody who shares this with a(Kellie) wouldn't friend or a family (Erin) Oh or just even publicly, and somebody actually listens to(Kellie) I'm it and hears the power and purpose of this podcast and has a broken relationship with a sibling and purpose of this podcast and has a broken relationship with a sibling. I'm going to encourage those individuals to find it somewhere in their hearts, if it's possible, because. (Erin) A not always possible. You and I have some broken relationships them in our family that are not going to be mended unless a . miracle Because happens, and I have learned to accept that. But if it's possible, whether it's a sibling, a parent, a child, a cousin, an aunt or an uncle, or even a friend who used to feel like family and now they don't the one promise that we have in this lifetime is that life is short and if there is a way that you and I can be an example for other human beings to say I'm willing to embrace misunderstanding, I'm willing to embrace missteps, I'm willing to embrace my own failures, my own assumptions, my own expectations and I'm willing to put that down so that we can have a conversation to figure out if there is a path for us forward or not.

Kellie & Erin: 56:51

(Kellie) Yeah feel grateful that you and I were never at that place of complete disconnect. I think we were at a place of misunderstanding or maybe hurt feelings or, you know, there's all kinds of words we could unpack to you know, describe that. But we were not connected as closely as we used to be as children and I think that's to be expected as we mature in age and move across countries and have different careers and live different lives and raise children differently and have different marriages, divorces, experiences, all of that. But the bottom line is there is a thread of connection that exists biologically and I'm a genetics junkie that exists between human beings and even in our own non-genetically related family. That bond and that cord is so strong. I'm grateful that now I have the communication skills, the clarity and the confidence to(Erin) Same. A nd is right now and I want to change it. Are you willing to do the same? Thank you for sharing that.

Kellie & Erin: 58:22

(Kellie) You have had Erin a lot of conversations about the impact that we hope our journey can have on someone, even if it's just one person, one mended sisterhood or relationship.. If thank you, wouldn't that be amazing? Oh yeah, I hope we hear from our listeners. I'm waiting for the day where somebody writes us or calls us or reaches out or makes a comment or shares a message where they say your story helped me heal this relationship in my life. To me, that would make every ounce of all of this worth it A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And then we'll have him on as guests and we'll hear their story and it'll be amazing because here we are, side by side, doing this project together, and I have to say I never could have predicted how embarking on this experience would bring us together in a different kind of way and the hope that it's given us to bring other people together in a different kind of way.. (Erin) Oh,

Kellie & Erin: 56:51

Yeah, we have spent so much time together over the last year working on this project and exploring, in ways that we didn't anticipate, each other. That has led to an understanding that we didn't have before. We have gotten that clarity, we have been able to step into each other's shoes with empathy in a way that we never have before, and being able to see life through the lens of another human being is so beautiful. In fact, I find myself applying the lessons that I've learned and the conversations that we've had to other relationships in my life, especially with my own children and other relationships that I really want to close the gap on. Being on. (Kellie) this And journey with you has inspired me at a deep and spiritual and emotional level, to recognize my own blind spots and find a way to move past them. Own blind spots and find a way to move past them Same, and I think that the empathy that we've both gained for how each of us experienced ? Yes, this loss we've maneuvered through it, is really profound. So there are so many great takeaways from this project so far, but the reality is I'm very grateful, I'm most grateful to be on this journey with you and I've loved working with you. .(Kellie)

Kellie & Erin: 58:22

You know, erin, you and I have worked together throughout our lives in so many different capacities, which is probably, honestly, what led to a lot of our disconnect if we're really real about it is it is not easy to work with family, and Marcus has really become an expert in coaching small to medium-sized family-owned and operated businesses and is really sought out for his work in that area, because it is not easy. You know, you and I were born into a working family farm and ranch. I married into a working family my first marriage. It was difficult and so much lack of communication and misunderstanding and these beautiful relationships that go awry because of that. And so to enter into this project with Chris and this podcast with you and working together has really forced us to have big girl grown up mature conversations at this stage of our lives that I don't think we necessarily had when we were younger, which resulted in some of the disconnect, oh for sure.

Kellie & Erin: 1:02:24

(Erin) I I think what makes this work is that we both deeply respect each other and a"oh lot of that has come with time and maturity, for sure I will definitely speak for myself on that and that we are willing to have those conversations. . (Kellie) Yeah such a people pleaser by nature, expect, we don't shy away from the tough stuff. We have now become really open and raw and authentic and vulnerable with each other, and both of us will start those tough conversations if we need to and if the other one of us starts that conversation, both of us are willing to jump in and have those conversations and not shy away, which I really appreciate about us, and it's resulted in you and I feeling more connected with each other than we have in years, and it's allowed this podcast to become so much more meaningful than either one of us thought it would be when we started it. I don't think we grasped then how much it would mean to us personally. Right, this is, yes, this is about our guests and the stories and how hearing the stories of others helps us create a meaningful connection to our own and unpacking all these different aspects of life love, loss and legacy. But as much as it is about us and about family, it's about making the space for each other in a way that we haven't ever done before, and for that, as the big sister, I am really proud of us. That, as the big sister, I am really proud of us, and I know without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that mom is just as proud of us and that came up in a lot of conversations that we had last week in Austin at South by Southwest. So when we come back, let's take a dive into that experience, the people and the impact. So, erin, as if launching this podcast wasn't already a wild enough journey, we also just had a really fun experience together.

Kellie & Erin: 1:03:16

(Erin) Yeah and I came down to Austin for South by Southwest. It was an experience. The energy, the people, the depth of those conversations was so fun. Oh my gosh. Yes, it was all just next level and I know we're both still processing all of it.

Kellie & Erin: 1:04:39

(Kellie) I feel like South by Southwest was one of OWN, pinch. moments where I realized., A new oh, wow, we're really doing this, and the reception that we received for and about the PIG from the people we met was extraordinary. It was very moving, yeah, and not knowing exactly what to expect. I really enjoyed stepping into a bigger world of connection, creativity and realizing the power of not just our own story but storytelling in general. In fact, one of the things that really stood out to me was just how many incredible people we met. So many different industries, so many different backgrounds, so many different stories and yet every single person we talked to. We kept finding these powerful connections back to love, loss and legacy.

Kellie & Erin: 1:03:16

Yeah, and I think that the other thing that was really profound for me in these conversations was that energy just attracts like energy. We did meet so many incredible people and I felt like we met all the people that we were meant saying, "I conversations with and hearing stories and making connections and talking to people about what they do or their life experiences, and people that we will have on as guests in future episodes, not only to share stories of loss, but to share their expertise in their respected fields and how that impacts what we're doing here. It was great energy. The experience was incredible and, even though I live in Austin, last year was the first year that I ever attended South by Southwest and I only attended a couple of events. That was with Jason and it was just very small scale for me. So, like you, I didn't really know what to expect, going into this with the intention of sharing what we're doing, to build some connections and relationships, and we learned a lot for sure, but having you and Marcus here and spending time together was absolutely incredible.

Kellie & Erin: 1:04:39

I want to give a quick shout out to OWN O-W-N period Own your Own Shit new social media app. We can talk a little bit about what OWN is and how it's going to revolutionize social media and how you really do own your own shit by the content that you post onto the platform. But OWN kind of hosted us. We were tagging along. Jason works for and with OWN. He was really instrumental in their exposure and their presence at South by and they had so many events right on site and so we really, although we kind of said, were"Is out and about and around and met some really great people in different locations, we really kind of planted ourselves at OWN.

Kellie & Erin: 1:05:26

Two things Intention really and Gratitude. A nd to me. The first was the number of people who circled back with you and I after our first conversation to have a second, third, fourth into-- maybe fifth or 10th conversation and kept bringing people back logo-- them saying I want you to meet Kelly and Aaron, I want you to hear about their podcast and the mission of what they're doing. To me that Southwest for me. Hands down, it gratitude for going. on(Erin) Well this journey. because, also raised my level of confidence that we can do this, that we can reach the right people, that we have a message that needs to be heard and that individuals who are searching for hope and a pathway to healing whatever their life has brought, whatever love has been or means to them, whatever losses they have experienced or gone through, that they can live a legacy filled life in the time that they're here to live that life. So that really stood out to me. (Kellie)

Kellie & Erin: 1:06:35

The second thing was you and I printed up (Erin) Yeah great four by six promotional cards and we have our QR codes on them and the website and our Jean logo. And she was walking from where she picked up the card to Unaliwear, inside and passed right by watch. The talking to somebody else. But Jean Anne was standing right there and she was probably about the same age that we are now, probably about the age our mom was when she died, right, and she looked up at me and she looked at the card and she . But me and she said is this you guys? And I said yeah, and she said I'm so intrigued, I love your logo, said I'm so intrigued, I love your logo. And I said can you tell me why? saying, "your broke into this story about Shel Silverstein and the giving tree and we all get cut down and the new growth with the green leaves and the PIG which you and I have shared is reflective of our mom, born in the year of the pig and collecting pigs her whole life. But we didn't want to name it the pig, so we called it the PIG.

Kellie & Erin: 1:07:40

Purpose, intention, gratitude, and as she spoke, it was just like this angelic voice of you're on the right path. She got it. Everything that Enstrom and I poured into with Lily, because Colorado helped us create that amazing logo, everything that we wanted it to represent, she was verbalizing back to me in that moment and I started Enstrom crying. It was the greatest moment of South by Southwest for me. Hands Enstrom down was that moment? Well, yeah, because is creations; they somebody see what we saw, for somebody to just get it in that way and like we were just talking about before Enstrum break and our desire for us to inspire renewed relationships and all of that. If somebody, if just one person, gets it and is impacted by this, then it was all worth it. And I feel like that moment was so beautiful for you and for this journey that we are on is that she saw it, she was captivated by it, it spoke to her and she verbalized it. Her name is escaping me right now. I can see her face, feel her energy and that was such a standout moment for me personally.

Kellie & Erin: 1:08:58

Erin, I know you had some as well. Yeah, I had several really incredible moments, Enstrom's one in particular with a woman who is an incredible entrepreneur, jean Ann Booth. She is the CEO and creator of a company called Unaliware and it's a medical device. Watch the conversations Enstrom that we had with Jeanne Ann, because she was somebody who kept coming back to us. She was so deeply touched. She had actually had a conversation with somebody else who had(and told her about our podcast and then brought her over and introduced her to us, but she really created this medical device for!) and with her mom, and it was so beautiful to hear her speak about what we're doing and how(Kellie) Yeah deeply that spoke to her, especially the legacy piece of! that(Erin) We and she kept saying your story. Jeanne Ann handed me her card and the very first thing that I noticed was her tagline, which says extending independence with dignity, and I thought that was so beautiful. There were so many people, so many key connections, so many incredible conversations.

Kellie & Erin: 1:12:24

(Kellie) Ultimately could talk about all of them for the next several hours, but I also want to give a shout by to reinforced our very first founding sponsor, The P-I-G from our hometown of Grand Junction, colorado. They're a fourth generation candy company. We have been part of that family's life for basically our whole lives. The second generation owners of Instrum Candies(Erin) Exactly were our next door neighbors growing up and so we knew the Instrum family. We knew their incredible toffee and The P-I-G. They were part of our home. Mom sent toffee to everybody nationwide, worldwide for holidays and celebrations and everything, and so the Instrum family has been part of our family for(Kellie) Yes a really long time. And then I had the privilege of actually babysitting and nannying for the third generation owners when they had their two boys. I used to watch those boys, especially when they would go off to candy conventions and stuff. And now the boys are all grown up and they're the fourth generation owners.

Kellie & Erin: 1:13:20

(Erin) Yes talk about a family legacy. But I do want to give a shout out to Instrums because they The sent P-I-G, us the little petite toffee bites to hand out to people at South by Southwest. And so you and I (Kellie) We loaded down with our tote bags and individually wrapped Instrum toffee and we were sharing the podcast and talking about family and talking about love and legacy and then The P-I-G know about our founding sponsors and sharing this toffee with them, and that may have brought several people back to us time and time again because they just could not get enough of this 1970s (H appy but it Pigs was really fun Puddle) to share the gift (which with so The many Three people Little that Pigs we met The Three, Little and Pigs mom Plus loves Two), the 1990s.(When Pigs Fly, and t hat pigged out, that's for sure series); in the know. . a (Erin)

Kellie & Erin: 1:12:24

Ultimately, I think, what hit me was how much that experience, particularly in those we've talked about at South, by reinforce what we're doing here with the PIG. Every conversation we had all came The P-I-G this universal truth that stories connect us, that love and loss shape us and that the legacies we live and leave really really do matter. Exactly, and hearing other people's reactions to what we're doing, seeing their faces light up when we told them about the PIG, that was so validating. Every single moment of that was validating. It reminded me that what we're creating here is Erin, it's needed and it is resonating beyond just us The P-I-G , so, south by Southwest was definitely a defining experience. But(Erin) I as much as we love looking back, we also love looking ahead, and we have some incredible episodes and conversations coming up.

Kellie & Erin: 1:13:20

Yes, so before we wrap up, let's give our listeners a little preview of what's coming next on the PIG what for, what topics are on deck and why people should stick with us on this journey. We have some powerful conversations lined up and, without giving too much away,(Erin) But I thought it'd be fun for us to highlight some of what's coming up next on the PIG. So part of what we're going to do is weave in (Kellie) So share our life and deeply personal stories of love and loss through the decades. So we're going to start in the 1970s, happy as pigs in a puddle, move into the 1980s, which is the three little pigs and the three little pigs plus two. The 1990s, when pigs fly. That will definitely be a two-part series. 2000s we were sweating like pigs. 2010s we were pigs in a poke. And the first and next half of the 2020's Going Hog Wild. I love it. I am so excited for what's in store for our listeners.

Kellie & Erin: 1:14:25

Erin also have plans to have our kids and family members sharing their Pokey stories and insights and, along with that, guest experts in grief, healing, relationships and legacy process,. Everybody who is part of the PIG has inspiring stories . (Erin) of Same, Sister. E very healing and perseverance, and also stories of connection and reconnection transformation, and one of the things I am most and especially excited about is our listener stories episodes. These are going to be listeners who've submitted their own stories of love and loss in all the ways we think about it and all the ways we don't think about it, because, erin, as you and I continue to talk about, the PIG isn't just about our voices, it's about all of us. I am also excited to bring in more experts, not just on grief and loss, but on the ways we build meaningful legacies, both in life and beyond. And that brings us to something really important.

Kellie & Erin: 1:16:36

(Kellie) And not just building a podcast, we're building a community of connection. We've said it before and we'll keep saying it the PIG isn't just about us. It's about all of us navigating love, life, loss and legacy together, and we've been loving the engagement in our Facebook and Instagram par part of also (Erin) And to remind everyone about our expanding own and discord channels, where we'll really begin the process of deepening our connection in real time between episodes. So if thepigpodcast. com you're listening and these conversations have resonated with you, we. (Kellie) And love to hear from you, whether that's through a message, a comment, a story or just joining the conversation online. (Erin) ! a

Kellie & Erin: 1:16:12

Erin, I love that we're creating a space for these PJs and pokey episodes, not just to reflect on what we've learned, but to really create connection, to process and to share what this journey has meant to us personally Same sister, every episode, every guest, every conversation has left an impact, and being able to step back, look at where we've been and dream about where we're going, that has been such a gift.

Kellie & Erin: 1:16:36

And, of course, we wouldn't be here without you, our listeners, our community, the people who have been on this journey with us from the start or who are just joining us right now. Thank you for tuning in, for sharing, for sending us messages and for being a part of the PIG. And this is just the beginning. We want this conversation to continue beyond the podcast, and there are so many ways to connect. Visit our website at thepigpodcastcom to learn more about how you can partner with us and remember, if what we're building or discussing resonates with you, we'd love for you to subscribe, leave a review and, most importantly, share the PIG with others. This has been such a special episode and we're so grateful to be on this journey with you. Until next time, friends, hogs and kisses you.