It Almost Took Everything: Chad Womack on Kratom, Shame, and Recovery

Some addictions don’t look dangerous—until they are.

In this powerful and deeply honest conversation, we sit down with Chad Womack as he shares how a legal, widely available “wellness tonic” quietly turned into a daily kratom addiction that nearly cost him everything.

What began as something accessible—something that felt manageable—slowly became a cycle of dependence, secrecy, and shame that impacted his identity, his relationships, and his life at home.

Chad opens up about:

•  How kratom and kava products can mask early signs of addiction 
•  The subtle progression from use to dependence 
•  The emotional toll of secrecy, shame, and disconnection 
•  The breaking point that led to detox and treatment 
•  What recovery looks like when you choose honesty over hiding 

This conversation is not just about addiction—it’s about awareness. It’s about recognizing what we don’t always see in ourselves… and having the courage to face it before it’s too late.

If this episode resonates, we encourage you to share it with someone who may need to hear it.

🔗 Resources & Support

If you or someone you know is struggling with substance use or dependency, support is available:

• Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration National Helpline: 1-800-662-HELP (4357) — free, confidential, 24/7 
• National Institute on Drug Abuse: nida.nih.gov 
• American Addiction Centers: americanaddictioncenters.org 

To learn more about substances discussed in this episode:

•  Kratom and its effects: nida.nih.gov/research-topics/kratom 
•  Kava and safety considerations: fda.gov 

You are not alone—and support is available.

Transcript

A Story That Doesn’t Look Like a Problem

Kellie 0:04

Some of the hardest stories to tell are the ones that don't look like a problem at first. The ones that start small, feel manageable, even helpful, until they're not.

Erin 0:14

In today's conversation, we're stepping into a story that challenges what many of us think we know about addiction, especially when it comes in forms that are legal, accessible, and often marketed as safe, even beneficial. What Chad shares is not just about substance use. It's about what happens when identity begins to unravel, when purpose feels lost, and when shame quietly takes hold behind the scenes. Because for Chad, this wasn't just a habit.

Kellie 0:40

It became something that affected his sense of self, his connection to his family, and that nearly cost him his marriage before he made the decision to face it head on. And what makes this conversation so important is how easy it is to miss. Products that are sitting in plain sight, stories that stay hidden, struggles that people carry in silence.

Erin 1:01

But this is also a story about what happens when silence breaks, when truth replaces shame, and when someone decides to speak, not because it's easy, but because it matters. Because of the people listening right now who may be closer to this than they realize.

Kellie 1:16

Welcome to The P-I-G, where we explore life, love, loss, and legacy through real conversations and meaningful stories with purpose, intention, and gratitude. We're Kellie and Erin, sisters, best friends, sometimes polar opposites, but always deeply connected by the life and love of the woman who taught us that facing our own challenges takes bravery. Our mother Marsha.

Erin 2:09

Today we're sitting down with Chad Womack. Chad is a husband, a father to his 17-year-old daughter, and someone who has spent over 25 years in the bar industry before transitioning into real estate. But more than anything, he's someone who recently made the decision to speak up about something that almost took everything from him. What started as a legal, easily accessible product, something marketed as safe and even beneficial, quietly turned into an addiction that led Chad to spend 45 days in rehab and confront a loss of identity, purpose, and control. And what stands out most to us is this Chad isn't here out of obligation. He's here out of intention. He's here because he wants people to understand how dangerous this can be, how easy it is to miss the warning signs, and how something that's sitting right next to the register at a gas station can quietly take hold in ways most people don't even realize. He's also here as a husband, as a dad, and as someone who is choosing to rebuild, to take ownership and to use his experience to help others who may be struggling in silence. Chad shared with us ahead of this conversation that he's an open book, that nothing is off limits, because he believes the hard conversations are the ones that can actually make a difference. And that's exactly what we're here to do today. This is a conversation about addiction, about awareness, about identity, and about what it looks like to come face to face with something that almost takes everything and choose to speak anyway. Chad, we are so grateful that you are here today. Thank you for joining us.

Chad Womack 3:51

Absolutely. Yeah, and thank you both. Even listening to you say that, it's it is a very serious subject. I don't tend to take myself seriously at most times, but this is very serious. And as you said, I am an open book. I'm here to discuss all of this with full transparency, complete honesty, and let you know exactly how it affected my life and the lives of so many others that have reached out since. So thank you so much. This is a big space, and I'm I'm happy to be here.

Erin 4:23

I think first and foremost, we want to know you. We want to meet Chad, not just in the story, but you know, before we jump into your story, can you help our listeners understand who you are today, what life looks for you right now? And, you know, and then we'll kind of backtrack a little bit and talk about what's different about your life today than it was months ago, a year ago. But I'd love for you to just give us a quick introduction into Chad.

Chad Womack 4:52

Yeah, I'm Chad. I've been married for 20 years in May, May of this year will be 20 years. I have a 17-year-old perfect daughter. She thinks I'm still cool, so that makes her perfect. I have been in Austin for maybe 34, 35 years, born in Atlanta. I would live there for 11 years and then moved here. Went to a very small high school north of Houston in Livingston, Texas, and then went to the oil fields for a few years, was a surveyor. But to come to where I or how I ended up here is I always wanted to be in the bar business. Always. I was obsessed by it. I threw some really good parties in high school and thought I would parlay that into a career. Yeah, I kind of figured. I just didn't want to bring it up.

Kellie 5:39

Professional mixologists.

Speaker 5 5:41

Yes, yeah, yeah. So I did that. I moved to the island of St. Thomas for a year. I lived there for a year in the Caribbean. I learned to bartend. Yes, it was like cocktail the movie. No, I'm not Tom Cruise, but I tried to be it one time. That's a true story. I came back from there and convinced my twin brother to quit Dell and start our bars. And that's what we did. We ended up opening 13 over 25 years in different states. And humbly speaking, it was great to us. So it was really, really good to us. That's a long-winded way of saying I am living now in Austin with my wife, with my daughter still in the house. Thank God. She's about to leave for college next year. And just doing what I can in real estate. Yeah.

Erin 6:22

I love it.

Kellie 6:24

Let's talk about the journey, Chad, from you sold the bars, correct?

Building Success—and Early Warning Signs

Chad Womack 6:30

Yes. Yeah.

Kellie 6:31

And then transitioned into real estate. Let's take a dive into where things really started to shift for you. The story is there's this successful guy, right? Father, husband, entrepreneur, very successful. But something was going on behind the scenes that nobody knew about.

Chad Womack 6:52

Yeah. And I'll I'll say I got my real estate license in 2015, so 11 years ago. And so why I did that, I own a handful of rental homes. I just got my license so I could buy those myself. So it wasn't just something to jump into after I sold the bars. I'd already been licensed. It was just a natural progression because I was always the one who negotiated our leases or looked for properties. And then with our rental homes, I would always buy them. I would always draft the leases and vet tenants, all of that good stuff. So and we still have those homes today. But my point of bringing that up, it wasn't just like, and not to say you were implying this, I wasn't just grasping for straws. I was like, okay, I'll just go into real estate, keep doing this, focus primarily on it since I've had my license for so long, and then kind of go from there. And so that's that was that transition. But yes, I'll answer your question about something going on behind the scenes. So being in the bar business, I was always a drinker, always. I was always a drinker. I started drinking in high school. And looking back now, it was heavy drinking in high school. Then I just thought I was just doing what everybody did. You know, you grabbed a case of beer, you went to somebody's dear least. I was in Livingston, sorry. Uh we we weren't fancy at all. I wasn't even joking when I said I threw some really good parties. My mom at the time was married to someone that they traveled all the time. So we threw some really good parties. And then I just started drinking, drinking. I never really touched drugs until I hadn't smoked any weed. I hadn't done anything until basically college. I had messed with some psychedelics, but nothing pretty heavy. So that period of time, let's just jump to when I did get into the bar business. I say this so humbly, we experienced some tremendous success. It was my myself, my twin brother, and we have one more partner and best friend, just the three of us that were partners for 25 years.

Erin 8:43

Wow.

Chad Womack 8:43

And we just started everything on our own. We never had investors, always self-financed. Nobody would loan three kids, poor kids, honestly, with no connections, money. So our first bar, we literally opened. We got the break of a lifetime. The comp troller shut it down. I'll be short-winded here. Anyway, we opened our first bar and just started. It was the three of us. Two would bartend, one would work the door during the week. And then on the weekends, our girlfriends, honestly, at the time started bartending. We just started hiring our friends and we just started buying one bar per year every year. And then started, we got a lucky break and started being able to get bank loans, then SBA loans, and we were great about paying our bills. So the banks really loaned us money. So we had some tremendous success. And this is all public knowledge, and this as a point to the success. First Houston bar for the first seven months that we were open, we were the highest grossing liquor license in the entire state of Texas.

Erin 9:41

Wow.

Adderall and the Productivity Trap

Chad Womack 9:41

Honestly. And so we basically had lightning strike three times. So when we had one of our bars, the show The Real World in Austin, that was their main hangout. So we were featured on eight of 13 episodes for that bar. Exploded. We just exploded. We were smart with our money and just started reinvesting our money into other businesses. And then my brother Brad, I don't even know if I could say that. Well, sure, I can because I yeah, I like to mess with him. He became the bachelor and he was the bachelor twice, and that really ramped up our exposure. Yeah, it just was something unbelievable. And that never really slowed down. By that time, we had developed a name for ourselves. And so we were in a position that landlords started coming to us. We were considered anchor tenants. We were one of the first businesses at Rock Rose at the domain when it was dirt. We were able to expand into Nashville. We were able to expand into Houston. We grew a company from three people to 300, sometimes up to 350. And again, we never had investors. So it was really good to us. But then I started drinking a lot. I always was a heavy drinker, like I was saying. And I also had a rule that I would never the three of us would never be drunk in public. We would never be drunk at our bars. We just thought it was unprofessional. But don't let me fool you. I made up for that on other times or at other times. Then the biggest issue that the first issue that I had with drugs was Adderall. It was introduced to me during South by Southwest. I was working so much, so much. And I started taking Adderall. I had never even heard of it. And as I don't know how much you know about it. It's 100% the limitless pivotal. You know, you can get things done. You're organized. You have energy. You know, there were times, no exaggeration, we'd have three hours of sleep and wake up again at six to load in at seven for bands. This is just here in South by.

Erin 11:42

Yeah.

COVID, Stress, and Family Crisis

Chad Womack 11:42

You know, so that's what that's what introduced me to. And I realized I personally, I loved it. I loved it. I had never done stimulants like that. I'll just throw this out there. I personally do not like cocaine at all. I hope that's okay to say this on here. I I just don't like it. It makes me irritable. I just didn't like it. So I was never that guy. But after all, it's prescribed. And so there's that false sense of, okay, I'm doing okay. I never could get a prescription for it because I literally told my psychiatrist and doctor that I would abuse it and don't prescribe it to me at one point, honestly. So I guess honest to a fault. But it it became a problem. It became a problem. And so I was just doing it socially. Then we just backed off to we would just grow our businesses during the daytime. And so we were rarely, if ever, there at night. It was just Brad, Jason, and I and our director of operations that would meet every now and then, not even that often, at least once a week, to just grow the business as a whole. And so you have all this freedom and you have all this time. I personally just started just taking advantage. I... you know, I have to call myself out. I became complacent. I became pretty arrogant on our success. I was really a disservice to our team, if I'm being honest. Like I think that, well, I'll just stick to myself. Was that a common sentiment? I don't know, but I can only speak for myself. And again, this is a business that I started. I was obsessed by this business. I just can't tell you how much I loved it. I loved taking care of people. I loved when they came in and they were from out of town, and I showed them something that could have been significant to them about Austin. I just loved it. And I had two partners that were the same way. We just were just, I don't know, we just worked so well together. So to cut to the chase, and why I'm grateful or been nice to do this interview, thankfully so. Feel Free. Let's just get to it. This was a monster that I uh I'm here in this location for a reason. I just talked about this with somebody else. So aka therapist, and I don't mind saying that either. So four years ago, and you're right, Kellie. So I had I had tremendous success. Things are going great. We were taking these trips, we were just things were great. I don't I don't like to talk about money. I think it's gross. Things are just good, things were going well, and they still are. Everything's going well. But instead of doubling down and really getting to work, I let it go to my head, maybe, but I would not outwardly so, just by maybe internally, I have to admit. When COVID hit, I will say it threw a wrench into everything. I said I wasn't going to get emotional, but during that time, my daughter had a uh brain tumor that had to be removed during COVID. I had five businesses that were shut down in two different states, 300 employees out of work. We were playing paying, when I say we, we were paying Brad Jason and I were paying our upper management and furloughed all the rest of our team. We were still playing, pay, I keep saying playing. We were paying rent on five spaces that were all prime properties. You can imagine what that cost. We were not taking a single dime in. It was stressful.

Erin 14:49

Yeah.

The First Experience with “Feel Free”

Chad Womack 14:50

It was really stressful. Do I use that as a crutch? No. I I want to say this to your listeners and and to you also because it's important. I take full accountability for this. I take full responsibility for every single thing I've done. Some people say, and I think it is that addiction is a disease. My thought on that, and my wife hates when I say this because she says, Well, that means you chose. I chose to ingest what I ingested. I chose to go and buy what I bought. I chose to take myself away from time to do this. Was I pulled away? I don't know. I can only say I'm accountable for this. So, but yes, COVID really put some stress on us, some some heavy stress. That's when my wife, who said I wasn't gonna get emotional, my wife very quietly said, I'm gonna reinstate my real estate license and go to work while you just try to figure out what you're gonna do with the business. She's a an amazing partner. So anyway, yeah, so she did. I'm not doing this for theater. It just she's she's been an amazing partner through this whole ride. While, like I said, our daughter was going through the scariest thing of any of our lives. So but we got through it as a family, and I, I bring that up so because I'll bring up something later. So we got through it as a family, and frankly, I do to my wife. My wife got us through this. I was not the leader through this situation. My wife was. So shortly after that time, we were hosting a golf tournament. My company was, and I won't say who because this person is an amazing person, highly, highly functioning, successful person. Great. I mean, just I'll just leave it at that. I hope they never even think that they had anything to do with my situation because they don't. But this product, feel free, was brought to this golf tournament and asked, Hey, would you mind if I handed this out to the golfers today? And also, would you consider getting them in to your bars? And at the time we were even in the middle of selling them, which I don't think they knew that, but still, and they said, Okay, and here's a couple, also. And I took one, so this is what I get really passionate about. So I if I tend to ramble, please, and you can even leave that in there. Like I said, I don't care if I look stupid or not or sound stupid.

Erin 17:09

This is why you're here.

Chad Womack 17:10

So this is to look stupid. I knew it, it's a hit piece.

Erin 17:17

No, so just trying to make ourselves look really good.

Kellie 17:20

No, no, no. Welcome to the P-I-G.

Chad Womack 17:25

Exactly.

Kellie 17:25

It's not a cop show.

What’s Inside—and Why It Matters

Chad Womack 17:27

Yeah. Oh, okay. No. So he or they introduced this, we took them, and I felt great. I felt great that day. And it's weird now looking back, knowing that I felt great. I can remember that feeling. Okay. So didn't think much about it. We went on. I mean, that was like I said, we were in the middle of selling the bars, and so I didn't really think much about it. But I caught myself over that next probably year. I wish I could remember what year this was, probably like four years ago. Over that year, just every now and then I'd stop in and I'd buy one. If I were on the way to an event or one thing to mention, and it's funny because I owned bars for so long and I love talking to people, I actually have a pretty significant issue with social anxiety. I really do. And that's why my Adderall use got out of hand at the time. Because, you know, I don't know. I just I don't want to blame it on anything. I don't want to say that's it, or especially falsely, but I do. My my twin brother Brad, we were walking through uh Brad's obviously, you can publish this. We call him Hollywood because he knows everybody rightfully. So, but we were walking through this wherever we were, and everyone was stopping him and all that. And he he noticed we were walking out and he said, Man, you have you have an issue like kind of meeting people, huh? And I was like, it's not that, it's just I do get a little nervous. So I don't want to use that as a crutch, but yes, so it started with Adderall, then feel free, it really massed that. And I'm almost reluctant to say that because I don't want anyone to think that they can just go out and buy it and like, oh, I can handle it. Chad was an addict, you know. Chad was an alcoholic, he had that in him. There's some truth to that. I want to say, again, as far as countability, I have some type of gene. I don't know what it is, I'm not smart enough to know. I'm an addict. I've been an alcoholic, I've been addicted to Adderall. Now feel free. I've got to take my licks, I've got to accept responsibility and say, yes, this is within me. So anyway, so I would find myself buying a few along the way. And then maybe two years ago, it was the first time I Googled it issues with feel-free or addiction to feel-free. And there's just a list that comes up. If you were to do it right now, sitting at your desk, there is a list that just comes up of issues, people who can't stop. And so, what feel-free is it's a two-ounce tonic. It's sold in a blue bottle, it's legal, and it is a mixture of Kratom and Kava. Kratom is the ingredient that is so can be so addictive. It is derivative of leaf in Southeast Asia. There's zero regulation. I know for a fact because I've stopped at the one, and again, I'll call myself out across the street, actually, two blocks down behind me. I could walk in right now and show you two bottles on this screen. Anybody can buy it, but it's predatory marketing because it's right next to the register, typically next to five-hour energy shots. This is sold as a wellness tonic. Yes. Okay. And just like everybody else, very innocently, I took it and I did. I I mean, I felt great. So then it just ramped up faster than I can explain. It went from two bottles to four bottles to six bottles to then even eight bottles a day. A day. I was spending Erin up to $2,500 a month on a gas station tonic.

Erin 20:54

Wow.

Chad Womack 20:54

The professionals and people within this unfortunate community now label it gas station heroin. So that's how addicted since I came out open about going into rehab, a treatment facility, then and I made that post about this is what I've been doing because I really want to help people. You would not believe the amount of people who have reached out to me and said the same stories. This isn't me personally, but I have been waiting for gas stations to open in my pajamas just to buy two bottles. I am worried to tell my partner that I am addicted to this and I've been draining our account. I have been trying to quit for three, four, five months, and I'm petrified of the circumstance. I'll stop with this one. I was just in rehab last year for X, and now I just can't look at my family in the face, say, I have to go back for this. Something legal. Yes. And I'll be the first to say it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. This is a gas station tonic that is legal that I had to look my wife. And daughter in the face and say, I don't know if you know the pain to talk to your daughter and say, 'I'm going away for 45 days during your most important year of your life,' because I have been buying a gas station tonic. It's embarrassing, it's humbling, it's heart and gut wrenching. This has been absolutely terrible. I'll get the word out about what it is, and then any questions you have, I'd love to answer because I really want to get this stuff, or in particular, feel free, completely off the shelves. I really do. There's just no use for it. There's no use for it. No good use.

Erin 23:27

And I know it's not easy to look at this situation and to look at yourself and to look at your family, but man, I'm so proud of you for really speaking about this because there is a different level of accountability and truth that comes when you speak it out loud. And so I just really want to thank you for sharing so openly about that. I am curious to know, and then Kellie, feel free to jump in here too with anything, any comments you have. But when you first started taking feel-free and you said it it's kratom and kava, correct? So I would love to dive into a little bit more and you know, break down what exactly this tonic is. But when you started with just a bottle, two bottles a day, and even pushing it up to, you know, four, I mean, clearly there was a time where you felt like it was safe, you know, and you liked the effects of it and it wasn't really having a negative impact, maybe on your day-to-day living. So I'd really love to explore that feeling of safety at first. And then when did that shift begin to take place? And what was that like when things began to shift? I'm sure that has a lot of layers to it. So you feel free to peel those back and unpack that. But what did it give you at first? And when did you start to realize that it was actually taking more than it was giving you? Does that make sense?

Chad Womack 25:04

Makes perfect sense. Whenever I first started taking feel-free, it would make me feel so it's a mild opioid. And so it gives you this slight kind of it makes you talkative. It gives you a little bit more energy. Again, I'm not a doctor, obviously, but it just makes you feel good. It just makes you feel good. It's, you know, some people use it, and I may have told you this story for back pain, kratom in itself. A friend of mine told me that their chiropractor sells this in his office right now. Dear God. Exactly, for back pain. So if that tells you anything in mild doses, dear God is right, Kellie, seriously. So in mild doses, it's a mild pain reliever, meaning it just makes you feel good.

Kellie 25:48

Calms the central nervous system.

Chad Womack 25:50

100%. Yeah, that's exactly right. So that's what I was taking it for at first. And then I noticed I would, and for the record, now the dosage has been split in two. So that one two-ounce bottle is supposedly two servings. They have a line across the middle of the bottle. Okay. I started taking two back to back. And this is another thing that your listeners will probably say, Well, yeah, you were abusing it. Yes, I was. I never started with just half of a serving, quote unquote. Or you know what I mean, half a bottle is one serving. But I did start slot drinking two back to back. So, in answer to your question, Erin, so it was great. Everything was fine. And then I noticed about midday, it was just that little thought that, oh man, maybe, yeah, maybe I'm gonna have a couple of more, you know, maybe I have an afternoon meeting I'm going to that this would help with. Or I'll be the first to say, also, if I have a choice between feeling happy or just bored, then I'm gonna choose happy, unfortunately, like most addicts do. And then right around that time is when my wife said, because then it started getting up to about six, and I'll I'll explain the differences of behaviors between low and high doses. But that's when Dillon, my or Sonny, my wife had asked, uh, because she budgets our money every month, and so she's looking at everything in fine detail. And I remember the first time she's she asked, she's she's like, What is this? You you can't be spending, you know, 60, 70 dollars every single day at a gas station. What what's going on? And she was genuinely curious. She's just like, and at the time I said, Yeah, I know it's these feel-free things. I and I'm not playing innocent, I knew it had started to get to be an issue. You know, I it's these feel-free-free things. I'll just stop. I get it, it's way too much. And I really didn't stop. And so, Erin, again, in answer to your question, I did notice that shift. And I think the shift came maybe two years ago is when I really noticed that this was an issue. I just told my wife I would quit, but I didn't. And so just to get to it, so in low doses, like I was saying, you're talkative, you feel good, in high doses, you turn, frankly, mean, you're irritable. It's intense mood swings. And one of the number one common side effects is isolation. I've had more people say, I didn't want to be around my family, I didn't want to do anything, I never wanted to leave my house. That's exactly what I started doing. I mean, I didn't want to do anything. I'll save you from the list. And not only that, for me personally, it exasperated these feelings of insecurity that I'd already had. I think I mentioned this in our initial interview from selling the bars and and just being at home. I just, I didn't have a quote unquote real job anymore. And so it really, really worked. It did a lot. You hear my voice cry? No, it did a it did a lot to me. And so, yeah, Erin, that's exactly the ramp up is it went from being, okay, I've got this. This is nothing. I'm gonna take a couple before dinner to six to eight. And the next thing I know, I'm just hanging out in our the equivalent of a guest room, game room, whatever. Just hanging out, basically doing nothing, not watching T, everything completely out of my personal DNA, being lazy, zero ambition, not wanting to hang out with my family, my family, you know, much less friends, but my family, you know, like my wife Christmas shopping alone. Just things that are just unfathomable to me now. Yeah, and making up excuses to do those behaviors. I'm talking about the isolating, and then just saying just mean things that anything I could do to not have to go and spend time with anybody that I loved and cared about. It's it's just it's it's unconscionable. I don't... I don't know.

Kellie 29:46

Can you take us back, Chad, to that period of time where this really set in? Because this is a really pivotal moment for you when the bars sold. You already had your real estate license, you had rental properties, you had that stuff going on. But when the bars sold and this started, that period of your life, the way that you describe that really lays the foundation and sets the stage for where you got to. And we're gonna get there and what you decided to do and how you have come out climbing the mountain on the other side. But there's a lot of loss in that space. And when we talked previously in preparation for this episode, I think we listed out about a dozen different kinds of losses that just became part of your identity and your reality during that time. Can you take us back to that space in time?

Chad Womack 30:45

Absolutely. It was pivotal to say the least. So, as I said, so we had had the bars, you know, in some form or fashion for 25 years. We ended up opening 13. We had five going at the time that we were approached to sell our entire portfolio, which we did. And so when we sold, I'm sure you know that process takes a while, you know, and it's the same group didn't buy all five. I think people think that, but it was chopped up after negotiations and things like that. So so here I am. Let's just get to where I'm basically at home, everything's sold. There, yeah, there's a lot of loss. So, as I've mentioned probably 10 times in this episode, I was obsessed with a business. Like my girlfriend in high school gave me a bar business book to study. That's how long I've been talking about this. I would read books, I was obsessed by it. I and I only say that again because it's all I wanted to do, you know, it's all I wanted to do. And I say it so humbly, I did it really well. Yeah, and the guys that I did it with did it really well. I mean, each one of us brought something different to the table. So we had this partnership. And if I I'm I'm terrible at type A stuff, I'm a very creative person, but if you want me to talk to an attorney, I tuck my tail and run and send in Brad or Jason, and they're amazing leaders, and sometimes I fail on that. What I'm getting at is so everything sells. So I'm at home, and again, it's only worth noting because this has a point, because we did well on the sale, so I didn't have to run out immediately and find a job. So, and I'll just leave it at that. But it is a very important point to the story. We didn't make life-changing money like some people think we did, and that's another thing I want to clarify. I wish I did, but uh, we didn't, not anywhere close. So somebody asked me that, a good friend. I was like, I don't know who told you that. Completely false. No. So here I am at home, and I'd already been consuming feel-free. I'd already been drinking in excess. You know, there were a few times I was hiding my drinking, which is always an issue. Drinking alone, always an issue. So I realized, okay, my bars are gone. I'm not the bar guy anymore. Everybody for 25 years in the city of Austin knew me and my partners, but me as the bar guy. Okay, so that's gone. Business owner, gone. A lot of people strive to be just a business owner, bar or not. I did that and I did it well. Gone. My twin brother, best friend and business partner, moved to Scottsdale, Arizona to start a new career. I talked to him probably 10 times a day. My wife will tell you it needs to be cut down to once, but I talked to him probably 10 times a day. He's my mentor, somebody I look up to, one of the only male figures, if not the only, that I've ever had to look up to in my life, a role model. So he moves. I'm not a twin anymore. I know I am, but you know what I mean. I'm not, I can't just go.

Kellie 33:38

Space is created. Yeah. I was a nanny for twin girls in college, so I get it. There's something about twins.

Chad Womack 33:45

You know what's ironic? Yeah, our business partner is identical twin, also. Honestly, he knows as well, but his brother was smart enough to stay out of the bar business. But he he really was my business partner, best friend, salt of the earth. I mean, I have to be completely transparent about something. And our last business that was open was the first time we failed miserably at a business that fell on my shoulders. Again, it's it's a long story. It fell completely on my shoulders. We were building that during COVID or towards the end of it. Banks would not loan any bars any money anymore for obvious reasons. Very first time we had to take out investors and it failed. It has a good ending, kind of. But long story short, we paid all of our investors back, all of them, every pendant. But Brad, Jason, and I lost a lot of money. Again, this was on my shoulders, and I was a terrible leader. It had a lot to do with drinking, it had a lot to do with the drugs that I've mentioned here. That same business partner, best friend, looked me in the eye one time and said, I won't be business partners with you again. And it hit. I told you I'd be fully transparent. I don't know if he would be now as far as partners with me or not, but I have to be transparent with everybody to let you know how hard this has affected me and how hard this has hit. But that same person is still my best friend, salt of the earth. I've said this before. When someone who is uh considered salt of the earth or maybe tells you something like that, it lands because they don't exaggerate, they mean it, yep, and they're impeccable with their word. I walked away from that mate meeting, like, yeah, I failed. Rightfully so. Like it's making me sweat now. But I need, I'm not this supreme bar owner business. I made a business fail by my own actions, and that same person that it affected, who I love today, and he loves me today, said that. And so I lost him too for a while. Like I lost him. So there's that loss. And so I'm sitting there at home. I'm probably complacent and arrogant by my bills being paid. And I'm watching my wife, who got her her real estate license during COVID just to support our family, worked so hard. And I'm home on a Tuesday at 3 p.m. or Thursday at 1 p.m. And I'm cutting my lawn for the third time this week, or I'm driving through the car wash. And honestly, I just started driving around just because I couldn't be in my house, yet I didn't know where I was gonna go. It was a loss of everything. It started really chipping out our relationship. And to her credit, man, to her credit, she just said, It's not the money. I just want you to find purpose. Like, this isn't you. You don't sit at home, chat. You you don't, and she didn't know that I'm probably just consumed six feel-freeze and I have zero ambition. And what I was taking at first to mask this, then all of a sudden it was take to escaping the side effects, which it made them worse. It's addiction one-on-one.

Kellie 36:44

What I hear in that too is that it's stealing not just your purpose and your time, but your identity as a human being, as a father, as a brother, as a business partner, as a husband, as a son, all of these areas of your life, but it was slowly eroding away at the human being that everybody knew as Chad.

Chad Womack 37:11

Kellie, that's that's so spot on what you just said. When you use the word thief, it took everything. It took everything, and I didn't even realize how bad it was getting. Yes. So long story short, I lost my identity completely, completely. And then I was so insecure. I I'm reluctant to say this. Like I just start lashing out at my wife indirectly and directly by just saying, like, and I'm I'm so supportive of her. It's almost like I was envious of her career, maybe even not of her career, maybe envious that she was busy because I'm looking at myself just saying, What wallowing, wallowing, and I was real good about just reminding her and myself, well, look what I've done. It meant nothing because I said this earlier. I don't know if I said this on this podcast. I'm I'm a traditional person, so I hope this doesn't offend anybody. And I but I feel like a man should provide a home and education and things paid. And I not that a woman should work, I don't mean that at all. But instead, where am I providing peace and protection and happiness for my wife and daughter in their home? Because I looked and realized I'm just providing a house, right? It's not a home anymore. If they're just walking through this house wondering what mood I'm in, then I'm providing fear, the exact opposite of protection, safety, you know, and stability. Yes. And I hope that wasn't a fit. Like when I say I'm traditional, it's just me. Like I just I'm glad my wife works. I'm just saying because it fulfills her. I'm just saying it. I realized all of these things, yet I was too I I use the analogy of a I've had a dirty filter for years, uh right, right above my brain.

Erin 38:56

Yeah.

Chad Womack 38:57

Honestly, and thank God I've changed that filter.

Kellie 38:59

Yeah.

Erin 39:00

Well, and also compounded by the fact that there was a certain amount of secrecy going on, right? And so there was also a loss of honesty and communication and a true partnership because you shared, right? That you were being secretive about it. There were things that you weren't being forthcoming about, which again is contrary to who you've typically been and shown up as for the people in your life. And so I think that that also deserves some recognition, right? From the fact that that was another layer of loss within the safety of your home.

Chad Womack 39:42

100%. I'm I'm glad because you know, I don't want to skip over any of this. And it is important to me to be transparent about that as well. You know, here we are, where as I said, May will be 20 years of marriage. And we have always had tremendous trust. I mean, we we really have had the relationship that we've just had trust. I'll just leave it at that. I've never had to look through my wife's phone, vice versa. We have each other's passwords. It's not even thought about, if that makes any sense at all.

Kellie 40:12

Yeah.

Chad Womack 40:13

And here I am because she, yeah, yeah, I'll say it, because she's budgeting our money. I start manipulating and and lying and lying about where I'm getting the money or how I'm spending money. Or, you know, alcoholics are extremely intuitive, and we can make stuff happen. I'm not saying that to even be funny. You know, we're very conniving and like I said, manipulative. And then I would come home, there'd be nights I'd be sitting up in bed, sweating, like breaking out in sweats. My wife laying next to me, like, you just told her you were going to quit. You just told yourself that you were going to stop this stuff. And I can't, this is for a legal tonight, y'all. This is this isn't for it. All addicts are addicts. Like, if you're addicted to something, I'm no better than anyone addicted to meth or heroin. I was doing the same behaviors that they do, and literally the next morning waking up and go and buy two more. So, yes, I was lying, figuring out ways of getting cash without her knowing. And this is someone who I mean, yeah, I'm sure you can hear it in my voice, someone who works hard for our family. Like, where am I being a partner? It doesn't matter what I provided for the last 20 years, it doesn't matter. None of that matters. It's what matters today. What if she started doing that? Yeah, she's a saver and not a spinner. We would not have anywhere close to what we have right now without my wife's budgeting and the way she handles our fine nothing. Yet I'm taking for my family, you know, honestly. Like, and I hope that no one gives me sympathy for that because I'm being transparent. I want people to basically comment and say, Yeah, it's shady, it's dishonest, and it's it's terrible you would do. Yeah, it is. It's all of those things that I have to take full responsibility for it. Terrible.

Kellie 41:56

What did shame do to the inside of Chad?

Chad Womack 42:01

I only chucked, I laughed because I mentioned I was meeting with a therapist earlier and I still do, probably once a week. There's a shame cycle. I don't know if you're familiar with it. There's a lot of things that I don't like waving this flag because we all have it. I carry a lot of shame from years and years ago. And it's something that I try to work with, nothing that I've done myself. It just years and years ago, and this shame cycle has wreaked havoc on me personally for years. It just keeps you repeating, or not you, it keeps me repeating these ridiculous behaviors. You know, it could be anger, it could be addiction, it could be isolation, it could be depression, it could be all of these things, but it's just this vicious cycle because when you're experiencing shame or feeling shameful about something, I personally, it just makes me want to mask that shame with a behavior again to make myself feel a little bit better for a few minutes, maybe a few hours. Then I start getting right back into shame. You know, I start resenting myself, and then the resentment turns to shame because I'm sure you know resentment is the number one reason for relapse. Number one. And so it's just a cycle that keeps going. I and that's why I'm being so honest right now and transparent because Kellie, I'm tired, I'm tired of shame.

Erin 43:26

Yeah.

Kellie 43:26

You know, whenever I made that post about, and I'm sure we'll get into it about rehab. Whenever I made that post, I asked my daughter first. I went to my daughter and said, "Do you mind? I'd like to get this out. I want to start helping people." And I'm not embarrassed about actually, I said, "I'm embarrassed about this, but it's more important to help people. Would it bother you and your friends?" And her exact response is, "No, I'd be proud of you." And she wants to learn more about it. And so so I made that post. So the reason I made that post, the reason that I'm calling. everybody back that's called me the reason that I've emailed back the reason I'm so gracious to be here is I'm tired of shame. I I'm so tired of shame. Like look man this is my story. I don't know what else to say. I've got a lot, a lot of things that nothing's in the closet or hiding nothing. This is me. This is me. And so that's the only way I'm gonna get rid of shame is to talk about it. Well thank you, Chad. The reason I asked the question is so many people are sitting in that space. They're not even sure how to identify it or name it or connect with it or honestly embrace it so that they can do something different. So thank you for talking about you know how that felt or feels inside of you because acknowledgement is the first step toward I don't have to live in this space anymore. I have a choice I have agency to choose to feel differently just like I have agency and choice to choose to do differently.

Chad Womack 45:08

Absolutely and I appreciate you saying that because it's hard.

Kellie 45:12

It is not easy. It is hard.

Chad Womack 45:15

Yeah, no...

Kellie 45:15

It takes bravery and courage too.

Chad Womack 45:18

It does and it's funny because I mentioned I was insecure it's it's funny how again I think I said this on another podcast but as insecure as I can be sometimes I'm I wouldn't say arrogant but I do get to the point I don't really care what people think about me. It's more like this is just me and this particular subject really it's affected me so negatively. And I'm sure if if we have time we'll get into it like the last three months of my life have been a hell that I don't wish on anybody and I do not want anybody else to go through. And so I have to do what I can to mitigate anybody else's experience or the symptoms for me

Breaking Point and Entering Treatment

Kellie 46:34

Let's explore it.

Erin 46:35

Yeah yeah I was gonna say maybe we jump in and talk about that breaking point.

Chad Womack 46:41

I'll do it yeah so things have been ramping up and I'm all downplayed. So things have been ramping up my wife and I have been basically extremely distant from each other. I've mentioned before I've been isolating I had probably said no to every event request or outing that you could think of and I just was not easy to live with. I just was not easy to live with over the holidays I wasn't easy to live with you know things like my wife Christmas shopping alone which this I thought about this whenever I was I was gone and it just I just don't understand I just don't understand I'll put it that way so I was just isolating and everything and then you know we would have maybe maybe two three days of it being decent and then another argument would break out and then another two three days and this this really started ramping up maybe in October and again I have to be I will be transparent with all of this I actually asked her if I could and she said yes it's important. So if people think you know bad of me or I'm sorry it's just how things were so and then I started getting really good about threatening a divorce with absolutely no substantiated reason no I think maybe I felt like she was close to leaving me and I wanted to strike first. I don't know I'm not a therapist I don't know and then of course I would try to you know I'd apologize and man looking back maybe I was trying to keep subconsciously keep her in a place of fear not physical fear but mental which is as bad because I was in a state of mental fear. I don't know so that was going on and going on and I just was not I I'll say it again I just wasn't easy to deal with and she was just hanging on man she she it got to the point she didn't want to be home she was going out a lot which I understand again I I trust her anyway going out with mutual friends and everything and and I get it and she was honest about it. I just don't want to come home and then we all went out one night and it was a group outing and things came to a head and when I say came to a head I'm not a yeller I don't I don't yell I don't I but man I'm good at just being cold or saying things that I just don't mean and and that night was no exception. I left the night I left the outing went home alone I was real good about that at the time and in my mind thinking that this was it I was just gonna leave my wife which I didn't want to and she came home sick of it and she said no I'm sick of it and my wife doesn't bluff my wife is tough and she's not dramatic. She's meticulous and impeccable with her word like I said earlier she called my bluff my bluff because I bluff and I learned the hard way that she wasn't playing at all. So I was asked to leave our house that was on a Sunday this is all in a feel free days I had been nonstop been drinking feel free I had non stop I had taken three I think before going out I knew that night that something was going to happen. I just felt it. I just knew... I just knew. I can't blame feel free on this was it a big accelerant absolutely absolutely it was and I wasn't in my right mind I had been drinking there's no excuse there's no excuse for this type of behavior towards your partner I'm no excuse no excuse so I was asked to leave my house and not return she didn't care where and I got it I got a hotel that night I came to my I asked my brother younger brother to meet me here well in this office he had never seen me like that things got real all I will say is things got real and I needed help that day that day that day and I'll just leave it at that anyway so he called up somebody who had connections to a treatment center. She met us immediately and I checked in the next day I went home and my wife insisted thank God on driving me there but I'll be the first to say it was because that was a goodbye. It was not a I hope you get better. It was a well I'm glad you're getting help for yourself. I love you goodbye it was 45 days the first part of treatment we could only have let me say this also so when I checked in the first thing they asked me and I won't say the name of the center but it's a it's a it was a great facility I just don't know but the first thing they asked they asked me were you taking 70H I had never heard of 70H Kratom I've researched that and what that is it's a highly concentrated form of Kratom that they say the withdrawals are worse than heroin honestly they told me that more and more people now are coming in for Kratom than many other drugs. I say that because again I bought two of those at a gas station before we went to the treatment center. Okay so I had to go to detox for two days I did not have withdrawals I wasn't taking 7OH. I personally had no withdrawals so I got out of detox in two days they were shocked. So I was in a 45 day treatment I went through the entire program two weeks I'm saying this part of it because I want to let everyone know what feel free almost took from me. So I could only talk to my wife in 15 minute segments once a day on a scheduled piece of paper. So the house got full and so it would get filled up quickly. So there were times that I would try to call her like five eight anyway it was it was hell. So I received an uh an email in there that this email was full of nothing but love. Nothing but love but also a reminder of what got me here and us here and a paragraph saying I don't want you coming home and we are going to get a divorce. So I'm in a center I'm sharing a room with two adults I've never done this in my life I'm saying this for a reason because there's a positive outcome I'm I just left what I consider to be my beautiful home. I'm comfortable I can talk to anybody anytime I want to check into sharing a room with two other adults rules on when I can use the phone I don't have my personal phone there's rules for everything when I can eat what I can eat and I just received this letter from my wife of 20 years. We we literally have an anniversary trip booked first of June with us my daughter and her friend we take a big trip every year this happens to be our 20th anniversary the whole time knowing I'm not going to be on the plane. I couldn't talk to her it was mental gymnastics at best and I had to make a decision that I was going to have to lean into this program because I'm doing nobody any good with or without my wife getting out and which I did. And the program was great. So I kept telling myself and repeating in these process groups great process groups that I am here because I just lost my 20 year marriage to my soulmate. I am now out of my 17 year old daughter's life on a daily basis when she's looking at colleges for a gas station tonic. And I just kept repeating that because it was that significant. So I did the program phenomenal program specifically to help with addiction specifically to discuss Kratom we discussed my marriage Dillon the warrior came to therapy sessions twice she never came to see me on family visitation. I bring that up because I'm not disgruntled she she supported me by not supporting me I get it she was like no no we've we've been down this road before no you're gonna show me what's different this time and not tell me she done bluff like I said anyway she came to two sessions they went well I checked out I did go first to one bedroom apartment and then I was asked home and things are great now. I was asked back home a week or maybe 10 days ago and I'll end with this I'm grateful for all of that. I'm grateful that I know what it feels like to lose my family. I'm grateful to have my wife say no we've been here before no I'm grateful that she didn't let me right back home. I'm grateful that I was addicted to Kratom I'm grateful for the treatment facility and I'm grateful for my brother's support who did come on Sundays because had it not been this hard I would have done nothing different. All addicts say this after rehab especially but I've changed like something clicked to the point I'm like I'll never take my family for granted again.

Erin 55:19

Thank you for sharing straight from your heart absolutely for all of that.

Kellie 55:24

You know you said something just now Chad that really struck me.

Chad Womack 55:29

If it hadn't been this hard nothing would have changed. I mean we only grow through challenges and some stuff that's hard.

Erin 55:37

Yeah 100%

Kellie 55:39

What changed inside of Chad - here I go back to inside of Chad - when you said to yourself looking in your own mirror it is time to tell the whole truth and own that truth so that I can move from this spot today to where I know I'm capable of being and the man that I'm capable of becoming.

Chad Womack 56:05

Kellie when I was in there this is before I knew that my marriage was going to be intact or not I literally said to myself I will do anything and everything to never go back to the mental space that I was in. I'm gonna say this in code and I'm sure I almost lost my life that Sunday I'm just gonna leave it at that. I said I would do anything to never go back to that mental space and that means everything. If I have to look someone in the face and say what I just told you or I almost got a divorce over this tonic let's go and sit and you tell me how hard it's been to get off of feel free for seven months I'll do anything. I there's nothing above this and I have to be honest about it. Because in the past there have been times I would say oh maybe I could drink on vacation I just told uh my wife the other night and she didn't ask she knows but hey is this going to be a problem with you because I can't have wine at dinner anymore or when we go to Hawaii I can't be drinking on I'm sorry and she's like I know and she's so supportive but in the past I would say I would no more of this no more of this lying even to myself yeah like literally anything I'll do to stay alive and to help people and to be mentally well again is exactly why Chad will you share a little bit about if you're comfortable being on this side of it now and conversations that I'm sure you've had with your wife and with your daughter are you comfortable sharing a little bit about what they've expressed from their perspective from their side what did this season of life look like for them I'm very comfortable sharing this. And again I hope it will help somebody else I could start with Sky. So I've mentioned this before I've I've been in treatment before for alcohol and Adderall as I was saying so you know that whenever I and she can sense things you know kids especially I mean kids are just they just know they just know and my daughter is extremely intelligent. I think everybody would say that about their kids but she really it truly is so she was picking up on things and the night before I left and I had to tell her because that's all the time this was so quick she just shut down and started crying and so she went to counseling when I went in and she talked to my wife and she's frustrated she's just frustrated is the best term you know she doesn't under understand I don't get a free pass. I didn't earn a free pass. I don't want a free pass because then frankly I would think it was insincere. She's frustrated she doesn't understand and even though she tells me she's not I bet she's embarrassed and then and she's talked to my wife about it and and she sat Dillon my wife down and asked are y'all gonna be together I just need to know that's heavy you know that's that's heavy and so and then my wife I'll try to get through this I really will you know she is incredibly hurt incredibly and she makes no bones about it. And she has she should be and I'm not saying this just to keep her around I promise you or for points I'm very blessed she's even here. I'm blessed that she welcomed me back because I mean I could list every emotion. She's incredibly hurt she has looked at me recently in in the past couple of months and literally told me that I broke her now think of that like I'm supposed to prop my wife up and for a man to hear for a partner I'll leave it at that to hear like it's just that that's just really hard. And so she's a tough one it's tough. She's broken she's mad she's frustrated she's confused she didn't believe me. Again she's just very tough in the way that whenever I would save some of the calls that we would have and she was like yeah I don't believe you you said this last time what do I say to that I'm like you're right and it's hard to transfer because I had never felt this feeling that I had going in because of everything but it doesn't matter it's the same thing. So yeah she's she's upset they say in treatment that it takes up to two years to gain full trust for a partner to gain full trust back. Frankly I think it may be four. And so yeah she's cautious but she also loves me very much and I know that but yeah they're both very she in particular is very hurt. You know and I'll I'll say and I hope I'm not rambling I left her to deal with our house our daughter our life our finances our responsibilities for two months alone even before then frankly because I was pretty much checked out but especially when I'm there and I can't do anything that's not fair. That's just not right. You know and and people in treatment say oh it'll be there when you get back and all that and she's capable no no no that's not no so yeah she's all of those emotions.

Kellie 1:01:02

Yeah, well, and you all went on a journey of learning and discovery together at the same time right this was new for everybody. While you were having the experience of popping open those bottles and choosing to drink the tonic which is marketed as you said earlier I've been in this industry a long time Kratom and Kava are marketed first and foremost as a wellness Alexa. This is going to help you you're gonna feel better Adderall schedule two drug prescribed but legal right so the journey of discovery was something that you all shared and in a way I think that's very very beautiful and as all of you continue to stay the course together every new day is a fresh start. Every new day the sun comes up and we have choices to make we can draw closer and every day the sun goes down and we get a rest in the day we had and the decisions we made and I just I hear you doing that and I hear you all three of you and your brothers and your family and your business partners embracing that reality of what can be now I commend you for that. And at the same time that you're doing that you're also bravely committed to bringing awareness to what this product actually is how easy it is to get and how quick somebody can go down the same road that you traveled.

Advocacy and Raising Awareness

Chad Womack 1:02:38

Yeah absolutely that's exactly why speaking with you and why I'm being so open. In fact and I told you all this and it's brand brand new but I'm working on something that I think could be a disruptor to that industry. And there's some people I know that are in much higher places than I but I think that it has legs and that's how important this is to me because again I almost wish I could show you on screen like how the emails and the text and everything because Kellie everybody says the same thing what you just said I don't know how this happened. I just don't know how it snuck up on me. And I think you can tell I downplay a lot of my I talk bad about myself a lot is what I'm trying to say but so because I admit that I have an addictive personality or whatever there's no way that everybody that has sent me these messages have that same personality. It's just impossible. And so yes to your point it just came from nowhere and it continues to be a monster and I am going to do everything I can but frankly I want to get it off the shelf. I know it seems a little ambitious but there's people that are much more powerful than I am as industry that I've started contacting over the past couple of days that we're just going to see what happens. I don't know. At least bring attention to it Michigan just banned it. I don't know if you can Google this but Michigan just banned selling Kratom legally oh wow so they either just banned it or it's on the on the books I can't but I think they banned it but my point is it's it's coming.

Erin 1:04:08

I think people are starting to realize... I want to say something really fast here Chad, because I think that it's really important to put some language around the fact that this is not a finished story. I mean you made this post that I saw less than two weeks ago right yeah and I felt so led to reach out to you and I do consider you and Dillon to be friends and my heart broke reading it knowing that you have all been walking this path at the same time and I said this in my initial message to you I'm so deeply grateful for your vulnerability. I also am grateful that Kellie and I have created this space specifically for this reason, right? For you to share your story and for us to have an impact on others. I also want to be sensitive to the fact that you are really fresh out of your rehabs day and this is very raw for you and for your family. I am so grateful that you are willing to peel back the layers and to have the conversation and to share so openly and authentically with us at the same time knowing that this is painful for you and for your family and this is this is happening in real time. And so I want you to know that we hold you so carefully in this space because I also know that I'm sure every day it's not like you're waking up now at home every day and everything's just like resolved. Yeah. Right?

Chad Womack 1:05:57

It doesn't work that way This interview is over. No joke.

Erin 1:06:03

But it's just there's something really powerful for me in this moment to realize that we're kind of walking through your healing journey with you in real time in this moment. And I just want to, I want to make sure that you know how much we appreciate the trust that you have in us to hold this space. Because then with that, I hope that you'll come back and we can keep having these conversations. But the story of you and your recovery and the rebuilding of trust and your family and those relationships and what's most important to you. This is a story that's still unfolding as we talk about it. And the fact that Kratom is still on these store shelves and the work that I know that you are going to do, that I hope that we can walk alongside you in this journey to, you know, getting it removed from shelves and all of the things because it is so important. That story's just starting to be told. I'll speak for both of us, but we're here to walk alongside you every step of that way.

Chad Womack 1:07:14

Well, that's I greatly, greatly appreciate that. And I could use the help. I mean, you guys have a huge platform, and you said it best. I mean, it's this is just getting started. And I and I was kind of joking about, well, not kind of, I was joking. This is a lifetime of work. I mean, recovery in itself is a lifetime of work. And that's the one thing that Dillon kept saying, and she had every right. She said, you always stop doing the work. You know, I get complacent or I get arrogant. Well, you know, since being out, I've gone to meetings, I've studied on things. I mean, the thing I'm doing the work, I won't bore you with the details, but it will be a lifetime of work. And I'm I'm so adamant and so serious about this and so passionate about this, that it really, everything else aside from my relationship to my family or with my family, has taken a back seat because I do want to focus on it. That's why when you reached out and I'm so grateful that you did. Is this raw, fresh, and new? Absolutely. But that's the exact time to attack this. It's the exact time. It can't wait. It truly can't wait. So thank you for saying that. And I'm I used this term too much, but I'm ready to roll and get this done. And it's something that I'm not going to slow down on. I'm just not.

A Message for Anyone Who Feels “Fine”

Kellie 1:08:30

Good for you, Chad, first and foremost. I mean, that's the first step, right? Is this the beginning of a new beginning? Yeah. And that new beginning has a new ending. It I find it ironic for those who know anything about Kratom and Kava, and you were in the bar industry. Yes, this is known as a gas station tonic, as a wellness tonic, but there are also across the country Kratom and Kava bars where people go hang out and they market them as alcohol free. Fascinating, right? And so there is a larger issue at hand that is gonna have to be addressed at a very big national level at some point in time. For somebody listening right now who feels stuck, ashamed, like they've lost themselves. What would you want them to hear? And what would you say to somebody who thinks that their situation isn't bad enough yet?

Chad Womack 1:09:33

That is such a good question. What I personally would say is that I didn't think so either. Let's say that right now you are drinking two bottles of feel-free and you know you think it's okay, or two a day is what I'm getting at. You know, not like me, two in the morning. The next thing you know, I just listened to this testimonial about this same exact. It's going to lead to something more. And this particular drug, Kratom, and drug, not legal substance, drug. This particular drug has a hook that is hard to explain. All of a sudden, it's not like you're itching for heroin or itching for adder. It's it's nothing like that. It sneaks up onto you too, you're almost drawn to grip one. Anytime you go to the gas station without thinking about it, then the next time you fill up, you may get three because you're not sure when you're gonna get gas the next time. It is highly addictive. It sneaks up on you without you knowing it. You don't even realize, you don't even realize the amount of dose, quote unquote, that you're increasing and the frequency until it is too late. And then you're gonna realize that you just wanted a little too more, too much, too much, too much. It will happen. Just because it's legal does not mean it's not a big deal. It actually makes it a worse deal. It actually makes it a worse thing because it's so easily accessible. If somebody's listening to this and has my number, they can call me and I'll say, I'll tell you exactly step by step how it got to me. It's terrible, Kellie. I mean, you know, and I know you know. It's so hard to explain. I was telling my wife that it's so hard to explain the difference between this and like, I don't know. It's just weird. It's just always in your head. It's it's hard to explain. And like I said, you can get it three stores leaving from here, you know, just within half a mile.

Erin 1:11:22

Wow. Kellie, is there anything else that you really want to address?

Kellie 1:11:27

I think this has just been a really wonderful conversation about a real situation by a real person living a real life. I think that that, Chad, is what makes it so powerful. You're willing to be real about being real and how easy this snuck up on you, how quickly it took control of your life, how deep and far it took you before you even realized how deep and far you had gone. And I hope that that gives people hope. Even if one person takes pause, walks up to their own mirror, looks themselves in their own eyes, and says, "You gotta get control of this before it takes control of you. There are options, there are people who can help, there's a place to turn, and you don't have to do it alone." I think that's what I heard at the core of everything today. So I'm grateful. We are grateful that you are willing to be here and to share your story, and also that you're willing to do the hard work from here forward and come back and let's have a con, let's keep having the conversation about this.

Chad Womack 1:12:43

I would absolutely love that. If you would allow me, I won't get too dark the next time. I feel like I did. I'm sorry. No, I would love that because I mean this when I say I'm confident when I say I should. But the work, like you said, there is a lot of work to do, but I'm going to do it. It's one of those things that I just know I'm going to do it. The work ethic and the ambition that I lost for a short amount of time whenever I was taking this stuff, ironically, has come back, I mean, tenfold. And to the point I was I met with my brothers yesterday, as I said, and I wanted to get them involved. But it's like, let's, I'm, I'm doing this, and these are the people I'm calling. And so I'd love to come back and speak with you. And I'll end on this also. If anybody contacts you and like to talk to me, or you can give out my number to anybody, that's how willing I am to discuss this. Because it a lot of times I forget something to say, or I don't say the right thing, or you know, I'm an open book, like I keep saying, and I will talk to anybody about this topic at any time. Because it's really destroying life, it's truly destroying lives. Not just a, you know, something that people say, it's really wrecking lives. So anyway, I couldn't thank the two of you enough. And yeah, maybe whatever time you would allow me back, I'll definitely come back. Maybe I'll bring Dillon and Skylar next time. They could tell you how mad they were at me.

Kellie 1:14:02

We would love to have that, you know, and what what great perspective. We're really proud of you. We know you have so many people in your life that are proud of you. And Erin and I are really good accountability partners.

Chad Womack 1:14:13

So I love it. Thank you so much.

Erin 1:14:17

Absolutely. But I do think that we should keep this conversation going. And I do think that it would be important to hear from your family or your brothers, right? We could do a sibling chat.

Chad Womack 1:14:28

That'd be awesome.

Purpose, Intention, Gratitude

Erin 1:14:29

Because I think it is really important to keep having these conversations. We've got to keep these lines of communication open. And I know I told you when you made that initial vulnerable public post on social media that the ripple effect of this, of your the impact that you are going to have just because you chose truth is such a powerful message. And I think that there are, not I think, I know that there are people that will see you and hear from you and hear about you and say, if he can do it, I can do it. And if he can choose truth, I can choose truth. And if he can overcome addiction, I can overcome addiction. And I just, I'm so proud of you. I will keep saying it over and over and over again. I am so proud of you for admitting it, for taking the steps that you needed to. I'm proud of your wife and your daughter and your family. This community loves you and this community will rally behind you. And there are going to be people who don't see it for what it is, who don't understand it, who may not necessarily support it, but cares about them, right? Like you just got to keep moving forward and doing what you're doing. Yeah, I agree. You know, we talk to all of our guests about their P-I-G, right? Our P-I-G is purpose, intention, and gratitude. I want to read what you actually wrote to us because it could stand true, obviously, today as well. There could be tweaks to it. I just love how every person interprets purpose and intention and gratitude for themselves or what it's really speaking to you in the moment. So I'm just gonna go ahead and read this because we asked you to share your P-I-G and then certainly feel free to expand on this. But this is what you wrote: Purpose. To help as many people struggling with Kratom addiction, specifically feel-free, get the help and information they need to stop. I want to get the word out that a legal, easily accessible product is ruining lives. Intention. I intend on stopping the sale of feel-free, at least in gas stations and wellness stores. I intend to force feel-free to have a label warning against the addictive nature of the tonic. And gratitude. I'm grateful that I've gone through this and have been challenged as much as I have over the last few months. I'm grateful that I'm alive. I'm grateful that my marriage is healthy again and that my daughter is proud of me. I'm grateful that I have an intense desire and newfound passion for stopping the sale of this tonic. Thank you for sharing that with us. And if there's anything that you would like to add or say about that, then I'd love for you to.

Chad Womack 1:17:29

No, um, I'm gonna double down on all of it. It's funny because I spent a long time lying, you know, like we discussed earlier. And one of the things that I said when I got out is I'm going to once again be impeccable with my word. And so if I wrote that, or since I wrote that, I'm going to do it. I'm going to follow through. I told my wife that I was going to follow through on the work. I'm going to follow through. I'm just going to be impeccable with my word. So nothing to add. I'm just going to follow through.

Erin 1:17:59

I love it. Chad, thank you. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you for sharing so openly with us. I really look forward to having you back and to following your journey and where this takes you. It really means a lot. But you are here today. So thank you so much.

Chad Womack 1:18:20

Thank you both. I'm serious. You have you both have a uh an energy that is extremely positive and it makes people or makes me want to open up. And I just appreciate also the comfort, you know, everything, the care shown. So this has been incredibly cool. In fact, I was extremely excited. I told my wife that coming here, I'm like, man, this is really cool. Yeah. So thank you both. And I appreciate you helping tell the story.

Kellie 1:18:47

Well, it's just the beginning of the story. There will be more stories to come.

Erin 1:18:51

That's right. But it's important. It's an important story that needs to be told. This seems very relevant right now. Yeah.

Chad Womack 1:18:59

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Kellie 1:19:01

This has been really, really great.

Chad Womack 1:19:03

Well, y'all, thank you so much. I'm serious. I really appreciate you.

Kellie 1:19:37

We hope today's conversation offered you insight, encouragement, or even just a moment to pause and reflect on the story you're living and the legacy you're creating.

Erin 1:19:46

If something in this episode moved you, please consider sharing it with someone you love. A small share can make a big impact. You can also join us on Instagram, Facebook, or LinkedIn and connect further at The P-I-Gpodcast.com.

Kellie 1:20:00

And if you're enjoying this podcast, one of the most meaningful ways you can support us is by leaving a five-star rating, writing a short review, or simply letting us know your thoughts. Your feedback helps us reach others and reminds us why we do this work.

Erin 1:20:16

Because The P-I-G isn't just a podcast. It's a place to remember that even in the midst of grief, life goes on, resilience matters, and love never leaves. Thanks for being on this journey with us. Until next time, hogs and kisses everyone.