Back to Business… But Not Back to Normal: Summer Reflections & What Comes Next

Eight weeks ago, we stepped away from the microphones with an invitation: go live a little more. Make room for wonder. Rest. Friendship. Courage. Adventure. Legacy.

Now we're back—and maybe not quite the same.

In this candid conversation between sisters, we look back at what P-I-G Summer Camp taught us, beginning with the childhood summer camp experience that helped shape who we became. From years spent at Camp Alleghany to two very different summers as adults, we explore why stepping away doesn't have to mean leaving your life behind—and why sometimes creating even a little space can help us return more awake to the life we're already living.

We talk about:

• The lasting impact Camp Alleghany had on our childhoods, relationships, independence, and understanding of community
• What wonder, rest, friendship, courage, adventure, and legacy looked like for each of us this summer
• Why rest and restoration don't require a month-long vacation
• The importance of protecting the life we're working so hard to build
• The devastating fires, floods, and personal losses that unfolded around us while we were away
• What those losses reminded us about grief, gratitude, hope, and living legacy now
• Some of the extraordinary guest conversations coming next
• Why we're finally ready to bring our children behind the microphones—and begin unboxing more of our own story

Because Summer Camp was never really about taking a break. It was about creating enough space to notice what matters—and deciding what we're ready to do with that awareness. 

And as we begin this next chapter of The P-I-G, we're ready for more. Learn more, explore resources & connect with us: thePIGpodcast.com

Watch the summer adventure video mentioned in this episode, find memorial and donation resources supporting the families and communities we honor in this conversation, explore additional resources & connect with us: thePIGpodcast.com/episodes/back-to-business-but-not-back-to-normal 

Transcript

Back to Business... But Not Back to Normal

Erin 0:04

Eight weeks ago, we stepped away from these microphones with an invitation. Go live a little bit more. Make room for wonder, rest, friendship, courage, adventure, and legacy. Today we're back, but maybe not quite the same, and definitely not normal.

Kellie 0:20

Because while we were away, life kept happening. There was beauty and restoration, but also significant loss in our communities, across the country, and unexpectedly much closer to home. Somewhere in the middle of all of it, we realized summer camp wasn't really about taking a break. It was about creating enough space to notice what matters and deciding what we're ready to do with that awareness.

Erin 0:47

This conversation between sisters goes places even we didn't expect. We look back at the childhood experience that helped shape us, reflect on what this summer taught us, and share a glimpse of the extraordinary conversations coming next. But we also crack open a door we've kept mostly closed, because after a year and a half of asking our guests to unbox their stories, the time has come to go deeper into our own.

Kellie 1:13

Welcome back to The P-I-G, where we explore life, love, loss, and legacy through real conversations and meaningful stories with purpose, intention, and gratitude. We're Kellie and Erin, sisters, best friends, sometimes polar opposites, but always deeply connected by the life and love of the woman who taught us that sometimes stepping away is exactly what we need to come back more awake. Our mother, Marsha. Hey,

Beach Banter & What Is “Normal,” Anyway?

Kellie 1:51

I love your beach background. Are your toes actually in the sand?

Erin 1:56

Yes, I am at my oceanfront property in Austin.

Kellie 2:00

Wow, that would be impressive to see. I'll have to come visit.

Erin 2:04

Please do. I have my Yeti that I'm going to just pretend has a mojito in it. And I am sipping my cocktail on the beach while we talk today.

Kellie 2:16

Well, you certainly look really, really cute.

Erin 2:18

Well, thanks.

Kellie 2:19

Sip one for me.

Erin 2:21

Done.

Kellie 2:22

I'm drinking a delicious mojito out of a stainless steel water bottle.

Erin 2:28

Yum.

Kellie 2:29

Grandma Millie would be so happy. If I drank a mojito in the middle of the day while we're recording, I would not make it through to the end of the recording. That's hilarious.

Erin 2:42

You want to meet me at the on the pool deck later and do a Zumba class?

Kellie 2:46

No, I don't want to do a Zumba class with you at the pool deck. That sounds awful.

Erin 2:54

It actually does. I'd rather just sit there and drink.

Kellie 2:57

Dip our little toes in the water.

Erin 2:59

Yeah. That sounds good.

Kellie 3:01

Well, that's a perfect kickoff to back to business, but not back to normal.

Erin 3:06

What's normal?

Kellie 3:07

Is there such a thing as normal?

Erin 3:09

Not for us.

Kellie 3:11

Oh. Sister, it is so good to be back with you. We have had an incredible six weeks of summer camp, which we're going to talk about more in depth. We spent the last six weeks away from these seats, away from these microphones, away from podcast editing. It doesn't mean that we've left the podcast. There was a lot of podcast work that still goes on behind the scenes, but we really took time to take a step back to do exactly what we've been asking our guests and listeners to spend the last six weeks doing and practicing right alongside us. And that is to wonder and to rest and to adventure and to focus on relationships and friendships and family and to be curious and to really think about legacy as a real-time everyday activity. We intentionally stepped away to live a little bit more. And as we're returning to the microphone today, I know we are both reminded of how fragile life is. We're going to talk about some events that have occurred around us and recognizing what other people are going through as well. At the same time, summer camp is ending. The podcast is returning. We have exciting new guests. We're going to bring our children and our family on the podcast this season. We're going to talk a little bit more about the unboxing of our story, especially as the boxes itself gets a little bit wider distribution. And I'm so excited to be back with you. This is just awesome.

Erin 4:56

I'm so excited to be back too and really looking forward to all of those things that you mentioned, the new guests and being joined by our family and continuing to unbox our own story and continuing to hold space for other people to share their stories. And just really excited for everything that this next chapter has in store for all of us. So welcome back, sister.

Kellie 5:24

I think

Why We Created P-I-G Summer Camp

Kellie 5:25

it'd be really great for those that have been with us the last six weeks, our listeners that have been following along and participating in summer camp. We alluded to it a little bit, but we didn't really talk about how summer camp came to be and why it's so meaningful and important for us based on the experiences we had in our childhood. Why we wanted to do something a little bit different at The P-I-G this year and take time off to go to summer camp.

Erin 6:00

Yeah, absolutely. I think that it's important. You know, we talked about taking quote unquote break from podcasting. And so many other podcasts do, right? They operate in seasons and they take breaks. And while we felt like we both needed and deserved a little bit of time away, whatever that looks like, and it looked very different for the two of us, which we'll talk about today. We love what we do here and we love our community and we love what we've created. And so we didn't really want to break from all of those things. And so for you and I, summer meant summer camp. We spent our childhoods at summer camp. And so we decided let's do a P-I-G summer camp and really take our community along for the ride. With what does that mean? What does that look like? And all of the things that you mentioned in the beginning, the wonder and the rest and the adventuring and all of that. Summer camp also taught us a lot growing up and became a huge part of not only our childhoods, but it really, especially maybe for me, because I spent so many more summers at camp than you did, really shaped me and who I am as a person today. And so hopefully we were also able to provide a little bit of that magic to our listeners and to our community to really create an experience that they wouldn't have normally had this summer. So I would love to dive in and have a conversation about really what the last six weeks meant for the two of us. And did we actually practice what we spent time asking everybody else to practice? And what did that look like? Because even though we're back behind the microphones and maybe a little bit more rested and so excited, I don't really want to put the campfire out, so to speak. And so, how do we keep those things burning? And how do we keep having some of the conversations that we started to have this summer and really carry these into the next season of the podcast?

Kellie 8:14

I want to say something real quick about what you just were describing because The P-I-G is not and probably never will be a seasonal podcast, but is very much a chapter-filled podcast. We had our first year chapter. We've had the last six months chapter, which has seen incredible growth. That's been amazing. We had the last six weeks chapter, and we're just going into a new chapter. And I think that summer camp, in the way that we approached it, can be something that people actually integrate into their lives on a daily, weekly, or sectioned kind of chaptered, ongoing basis. The whole point of what we were trying to get across is you don't necessarily have to take a month away like Marcus and I did. Not everybody can do that. Everybody, I believe, can actually do that if they plan and prepare and have the ability to plan and prepare and do that the way that we have prioritized over the last 16 years. It's not like, oh, we just all of a sudden decided we're going to take a month away. At the same time, there are hidden nuggets in what we put out in P-I-G Summer Camp that I think we should really talk to and really help people understand how all of those concepts that we learned at summer camp as kids can be embedded into everyday life. So I want to start with you because I had the privilege of going to summer camp for just a couple of years mid-high school. And then I went back for two or three years as a counselor. But my experience at summer camp was very, very different than yours because you basically grew up going to summer camp. And we were fortunate to be able to go to an all-girls summer camp in West Virginia that is owned and operated by an amazing, lovely family, the Dawsons. So Camp Alleghany in Lewisburg, West Virginia. Camp Alleghany is a heartbeat that beats inside of our chests and has ever since we were there. And I can't wait to talk to the family because it's such a beautiful legacy story. We'll have them on as guests. But we really built this summer camp series around attending Camp Alleghany, what we learned there, the people that we connected to, the friendships we made. But Erin started going to summer camp when she was a little itty bitty girl.

The Camp Alleghany Years

Erin 11:00

Yes. I was seven years old. And back then, camp really kind of made an exception. You had to be eight to start camp. But because my big sister was there, they let me start a little bit early. And so I was seven years old. And I think it's important for people to understand that Camp Alleghany has two terms, first term and second term. And each term is about three and a half weeks. And so our first summer at camp, and I was seven years old, we went to West Virginia. We were from Colorado. So we crossed the country to go to summer camp and we went for three and a half weeks. I don't remember saying this, but it's definitely ingrained in my brain because mom always said that when we got home and we stepped off that plane back in Grand Junction, Colorado, the first words out of my mouth were next year I want to go full term. And so from when I was eight until I was 18, I went full term. I went to summer camp for seven weeks every summer.

Kellie 12:20

You know, think about that. An entire decade spent at summer camp, we would be remiss not to share too, because this is freaking hysterical. That the whole reason we got sent to summer camp is because that first year that mom and pop were married, remember we all went to the pool and we charged everything to their account. Hot dogs, ice cream. They're like, it would be cheaper for us to send you to summer camp than to let you hang out at the pool in the summer. So no more of that.

Erin 12:50

Yeah, they were like, How many ice cream sandwiches can you seriously eat in a day? I was like,

Kellie 12:54

40.

Erin 12:55

Is that a challenge? All of them. I can eat all the grilled cheese sandwiches, all the hot dogs, all the ice cream sandwiches, and I can buy them for all my friends because you just charge it to your account. It doesn't cost real money.

Kellie 13:08

Right. Reminds me of David in Shitt's Creek, like with the write-offs. "Who writes it off?" "The write-off people write it off." You just write it off. Yeah, the charging people write it off.

Erin 13:20

Oh my gosh. That's hilarious.

Kellie 13:21

The innocence of children, right? So yeah, we learned the hard way. But it actually wound up being one of the greatest blessings. But think about that. A decade of going to summer camp. Think about the changes in a child between the ages of zero and 10, and then 10 and 20. A lot happens over the course of 10 years, and you went every summer for 10 years. Erin, having spent all of that time at summer camp, who do you think you would have been without Camp Alleghany?

Erin 13:58

I think that's an almost impossible thing to even imagine in my life. I think that, not I think I know that my experience at Camp Alleghany taught me so much about friendship and independence and gave me such a love for adventuring, right? Trying new things and trying new foods and just being away from home and taught me a level of responsibility that maybe I wouldn't have learned at home during those summers. When I think about all of the traditions, the the songs, the campfires, the activities, and just how much fun camp was. It was just so much fun. And it's where I fell in love with archery and riflery, and I did so much horseback riding, and I just I could talk on and on and on and on and on about summer camp at Camp Alleghany. I mean, I just it taught me so much, but I can't even imagine who I would be now if I hadn't had those experiences. It shaped me. It absolutely shaped who I am as a human being.

Kellie 15:22

I think one of the things too is to this day, you and I have a very, very, very close relationship with the Dawsons. So, right, Franny and Cooper were running camp when we were there, and their son Sam and his wife Bonnie were kind of up and coming and taking over. Then they took over camp. And now their daughter, who was one of my campers and one of your camp mates, yeah, in junior camp, Elizabeth and her family are running camp. And so when I think about my childhood or my later childhood and into my college years and my camp counselor years, the Dawsons just go hand in hand with these incredible memories that I have. At the same time, and this is part of a little bit of weaving in the unboxing of our story. I particularly was experiencing still a lot of tumultuous stuff in our family, our complex family story and family history. And so Camp Alleghany and the Dawson family, and even Hazel and Carrie, who ran the kitchen and cooked this amazing food for us, and these big hugs from these women that just loved us so deeply and so dearly, really became another family for me to feel very safe, secure, and grounded in a lot of chaos and complexity that was going on around us. And so I think that's another one of the most beautiful things about going to camp or having a camping experience like that is it creates community and connection. And to this day, you and I are part of social media groups, they have family camp, we'll forever be Grays versus the Blues. And any of our granddaughters or anyone that ever goes to Camp Alleghany will have that same experience. And I just am so grateful for the time that we had there. The canoeing, the horseback riding, the riflery. That's where I became a rifle instructor and just fell in love with that sport and continuing on in that. And you with your archery. But more than anything, the friends, the campfires, the songs, the camaraderie, the experience itself. Flying across the country, taking a train, jumping on a van, and then getting on a barge to cross the river. That was probably one of my very favorite things about camp was getting on the barge. Yeah. Crossing the river, getting off on the other side, the barge leaves, and you are stranded. And we then didn't have to digital detox. We had no cell phones, we had no computers, we had stationary pens and paper, and we were required to write letters home during rest hour, which what a gift that was too.

Erin 18:38

We'll talk about that later. But but yeah, I have thought so much about that, especially living in a social media world, right? And following Camp Alleghany this summer and seeing posts about the campers and their activities and thinking, wow, we just went there at a totally different time. And to your point, we didn't have to disconnect from anything when we went there. I think, and I don't know, I could be wrong because I'm not going to camp in this very connected age. And I'm sure that the friendships and the bonds formed at camp are just as strong today as they were when we were there. But we're talking about because we were just so deeply connected to each other from the moment we crossed the barge and landed on the other side of the river. Well, you and I both have friendships and relationships that have survived decades. And it's such an incredible gift.

Kellie 19:40

Yeah, it really is. So adults still need camp. And that was part of the reason why, with our heart so full of gratitude for the Dawsons and for Camp Alleghany and for our experience and for mom and pop investing in sending us to camp. It gave them a tremendous amount of freedom, which they took advantage of, which they took advantage of. Sending us away was an investment in their relationship. And we can look back on that as adults with honesty and gratitude. They were very purposeful and very intentional about that. But at the same time that they were sending us off so they could go play, have fun, rest, restore, work, travel, be together alone without children. They were also gifting us with all of those great lessons and the friendships and the memories that will last a lifetime. And so we wanted to connect our 2026 summer camp series to the summer camp experiences that camp taught us decades ago. So let's run through the six weeks that we did and I mean this is off the cuff and just talk about what comes to mind when we think about each one of these weekly concepts.

Wonder: Remembering to Look Up

Kellie 21:07

So the first one was wonder. What stopped you in your tracks over the last six weeks? Anything?

Erin 21:16

Yeah, you know, I actually made my own social media post about this because we talked in wonder about, you know, looking up. You know, we spend so much of our time looking down at our phones, looking down at our computers, and sometimes lose sight of what's right in front of us or what's up above. So taking those moments just to look up at the sky, notice the shape of the clouds, notice birds flying overhead, or just, you know, what does that look like? And so I happened to be in a restaurant and looked up at the ceiling and noticed that they had all these phrases and things written on the ceiling, like pipes and stuff. Stuff in this restaurant, right? That they had all this stuff painted. And I was like, oh, it was just such a moment where I was still inside. I was inside a restaurant, but I wasn't looking down at my phone. And I actually took the time to look up and got to receive all of these cool messages that this restaurant had just painted on their ceiling. And I got to be the recipient of that. And that was just one example of several moments in time over the last six weeks, but it definitely during that first week one where I took the time to be very intentional about setting down my phone, stepping away from my computer, and letting myself be in awe of something else around me. That's really cool. And sometimes it was just sitting outside in silence.

Kellie 22:56

Yeah. What changed for you mentally, physically when you had that experience of looking up at the ceiling and seeing all those messages and being like, oh my gosh. Because it felt like from your post and the way that you described that that it was true wonder. It was like, why am I not doing this all the time?

Erin 23:16

Yeah, like I've never noticed this before. And I've been inside this restaurant numerous times and never noticed that before. And so I think for me, it was just that. What else am I not noticing around me? Yeah. And let's just take a little bit of a lesson from that moment and to connect with the world around us rather than the world that kind of lives in our hands at this point in time, right? Via cell phones.

Kellie 23:49

Yeah. This

Rest: Stepping Away Without Running Away

Kellie 23:51

might be a great place to just interject before we continue on, real quick, that because you alluded to this in the beginning, our six weeks of summer camp were spent logistically very differently. Yes, they were. So the very kickoff, Marcus and I were leaving on our annual summer trip, and we're normally gone about three-ish weeks, three and a half weeks. This month we were gone a full four weeks. We've been working towards that for a very long time. We do do some work while we're away, some remote work, but we try to keep that to a minimum because especially with Marcus's career as a coach and a consultant, it is so intense day in and day out. You know, what he pours himself into, the client work that he does, what he takes on. He really needs to stop and rest, which is was week number two on a daily basis, right? Sitting outside, watching the sunset, you know, those kinds of things. So he's a great example of practicing summer camp in real time all the time. So we were away for the first four weeks and then back for the second two weeks, integrating back into. So a lot of what I'm gonna share in these concepts are gonna evolve around this time that we were away and integrating back home. Yours was different.

Erin 25:19

Yeah, mine was really different. I, you know, will very honestly and vulnerably talk about how I'm just at a phase in my life where I couldn't do that. I didn't go away at all this summer. I didn't take a vacation, I didn't take time off from really anything. And so, in fact, I would venture to say I was kind of busting my butt where I could to just survive this summer. And so it does look very different. And I know that that's the season of life that I'm in. It's just, it is just my reality right now. And so without being in a position where I could take a vacation, even get away for a weekend, that just wasn't an option for me this summer. And so I had to find ways to work these principles very intentionally into the grind of my everyday life. And that was not always easy.

Kellie 26:29

I imagine that it was not. So that's gonna be great to talk about because the last thing we want to do is send this message of, well, everybody should do this, and you have to get away, and you have to leave home, and you have to leave work, and you have to leave your family and your children and your people and all that behind. It's not about getting away, it's about being more present wherever you happen to be. Because life is different for all of us, and life calls on us to live it to the best of our ability every single day. Like, let's just talk about it from the perspective of the whole podcast theme, which is life, love, loss, and legacy. We just want to be real honest and open about that. Yeah. So, yes, wonder. I love that you looked up at the ceiling. I love that you were able to connect that to the summer camp series, and that you will continue to remind yourself, as Marcus would say, catch stop and redirect yourself as often as you can to find wonder in the ordinary things. I will tell you, we kicked off our trip. I had a hard time letting go. This is me. This is one of my issues, so to speak, is that I have a hard time releasing and stepping out of tasks, responsibility, follow-through, commitments, hard work. I think it's part of that older sibling, it's part of the caretaking, it's part of the repeated patterns, it's habitual. And so combining a little bit of wonder into a little bit of rest. About four or five days into our trip, my husband sat me down and said, I really need you to be here with me. And it was a moment in time where I had to really stop and be very honest, not just with myself, but with him, and practice some own internal wonder of, wow, I thought I was doing that, but I'm not really doing that. Take a hard look in the mirror and recognize that, yes, stepping away during this time is not just what we worked so hard to be able to do and committed to each other to do. But why am I having such a hard time doing that? And how can I shift my mindset and my behaviors so that I can give this gift back to the person I love the most because they need it as much as anybody, and my being present in that is a huge part of him being able to practice wonder and to really rest. Yeah.

Speaker 2 29:33

I've been running like a river after heavy rain, chasing every open rope, but they all feel the same. The night gets louder when I'm left alone, but your voice is a quiet that feels like home. Settle me down when the storm rolls through. Like you always do. I'm a restless fire burning to proud, but you can settle me. Fighting with a man, put it to the time. But you take my head and away it's gone. Turn the break into stone. Tell me that when the stone goes to my heart like you always do. I'll get to fire, but it's too bad. When it does, when I still wanna leave the only force down, just me down me down, let's talk to always do broth.

Erin 32:20

I love that so much. I would love to hear about what changed with you, both mentally and emotionally, and then physically, when you made that choice, when you did choose to kind of actually step away and be present. What did that look like? And what changes did you experience within yourself when you made the decision to do so?

Kellie 32:46

I think like anything, it's about emotional intelligence, right? It's about being both self-aware and socially aware and being able to self-regulate and socially regulate at the same time. Like I was super motivated intrinsically. Like I didn't need anybody to motivate me to want to be present. And I felt like I was being present from the very moment we pulled out of town. But the person that I love and care about the most saw something completely different and had to say, Hey, babe, I love you, but you are not here. Like you are somewhere else. And I think just that simple reminder and being open to it. Yeah. I think as human beings, often it's hard to sometimes get feedback from the people that we love and care about, about our own behaviors, actions, or lack of actions. Because even no action is acting. Thank you, Andy Andrews, right? Non-action is an action. And so it wasn't difficult, it wasn't challenging. I wasn't upset by it. I was very grateful for it because somebody cared enough about me to say, This is what I need, and this is what you need. You need this too. You bust your ass every single day, day in and day out, from sunup to sundown. I work so hard. Like I barely give myself a chance to sit in wonder and to truly rest, right? I have to consciously practice taking breaks, taking time away, going to eat, getting up from my desk, stop editing, shift gears, go outside, go play the piano, go be with the kids, whatever it might be. Again, I said it earlier. I think that that can sometimes be very habitual for me. Yeah. And I think that being reminded of it, I felt a deep sense of gratitude. And so what happened was I was then able to have those moments of wonder. I was able to take a walk and see things that I didn't see before. I was able to go sit down by the water and literally just watch the waves. Like if you've ever looked at the water and the way that light glistens and reflects on the water and just watch it like diamond crystals, it's absolutely mesmerizing. Like I could sit there and do that for hours. Yeah. But there were so many things that caught me in wonder. But that initial moment was a different perspective on wonder than just looking at something in awe. But actually, that stopped me in my tracks. And so if the question is, what stopped you in your tracks? That actually was the first thing, the first week, the week of wonder that stopped me in my tracks. So then it led into week number two, which was rest. I was able to start relaxing and letting go. And week number three, friendship. So moving into a deeper connection, not just with myself, but also with my husband. So what about for you with rest and friendship? What filled your cup?

Erin 36:11

Well, the rest thing I kind of alluded to a little bit earlier. I really didn't have a restful summer, quite honestly. But I chose to be intentional with taking moments for myself where I could when I could. You know, sometimes that's really hard to do. For me, it's like talking myself into giving myself a little bit of grace and knowing that I don't have to just grind all the time because I feel like I have to so often. And so typically my summer looks more restful. I spend more time at the pool or have time away. And this summer I didn't do that. I mean, it's August, and I have spent two days lounging poolside, which is my happy place. I'm like a lizard. I just want to bask on my rock. So that's been hard. But I also, you know, for me then that means resting where I can and having a conversation with myself that I am in this season of life that is just a season. It's not going to be like this forever. And so I kind of bottle up past experiences, try to be kind to myself and know that next summer hopefully looks a little bit different. Even what you talked about with, you know, the planning and the saving and arranging work and preparing not only yourselves, but preparing the people around you, you know, preparing clients and getting projects ready to be ignored, right? For a few weeks. And it does take a lot of prep time and work so that you can step away and rest. And all of those things are worth the investment that they take. Again, I'm just in a season of life that's not affording me to do that right now. And so rest looks a little bit different for me. I really rest at night while I'm sleeping.

Kellie 38:06

And that's okay as long as you're sleeping well. And the cool thing is, I know you sleep well and you have a good sleep ritual, which is really taking care of your seal.

Erin 38:14

I got a 99 sleep score last night. I was very proud of myself. You know, and then friendship, you know, this is something that I do try to prioritize is connecting with people. That is very important to me. And so whether it's just a quick phone call or a quick coffee or attending a little networking group or whatever that is, I need to connect with people. And this summer I was able to honestly connect with my closest people, right? My kids and Jason. And sometimes I feel like I try to be everything to everybody. And that stretches me too thin. And so I was very intentional this summer about just really carving out time for the people that are most important to me. That allows me a little bit of rest. I get to rest in that, you know, and with them. And really having adult children is so cool when they're people that you want to hang out with, and that you're somebody that they want to hang out with. You know, maybe not all the time, but you know, when it's like, hey, mom, let's watch a movie or whatever. Like, I'll never say no to those opportunities. And so for me, that really looked like building bonds and relationship with the people that are really most important to me that don't always get the best of me.

Kellie 39:46

And it's so cool to become friends with your adult children. Yeah, it is. And probably one of the greatest legacies we can leave is to get to know our children as the adults that they are, and for them to actually get to know us as adults on that same level in that playing field. That's been one of my great joys in the friendship, relationship, connection area. Yeah.

Friendship, Courage, Adventure & the Woods

Kellie 40:16

So courage was week four and adventure was week five. What about that for you? Like you don't have to go to Patagonia or escape to some faraway place or do something wild to have courage and adventure. What was that for you this summer?

Erin 40:31

You know, we talk a lot about just being curious. And so for me, that was where did I choose curiosity over routine? Right. And so maybe it's going on a walk but taking a different route. You know, still doing a routine thing, but just changing it up enough to where that also can create wonder. But then it's really, you know, it's doing something bold and different and adventurous. It doesn't have to be like you said, like going and climbing a mountain. It's just changing up the same old, same old. There were little moments of that for me throughout the summer, which was really remarkable. But what I really want to do is turn the mic over to you because I want to hear about you guys adventured. And I really want to hear about what that really looked like for you this summer.

Kellie 41:26

You know, probably the best way for me to describe that and share that with our listeners is to actually post the little video montage that I shared on social media on our website, and I'd be happy to do that. We left Grand Junction the day before a real tragedy here, and we'll talk about that in our next section. But we pulled out of town, we were all loaded up, and we were gone for 28 days. We covered 3,300 miles, six states. We are not interstate drivers, so we get on two-lane highways, back roads. We never are following a map, we hardly ever pick a place to stay because we just want to wing it. So that's kind of our courage and our adventure part of our trip, and it always works out. And we're glad we didn't. You know, this year we took a little bit longer to get to our destination, which is Cordelaine, Idaho. That's a place that's near and dear to our heart. We've been there every year. Marcus used to live there. That's where we've raised our kids, where we got married eight years ago this summer. It's just kind of our home away from home. So we stayed there for a bit and then we go into the woods of eastern Oregon. We camped in a tent by the river, checked out for 11 days. Our closest companion was Scott the Squirrel, and there's a children's book coming. I'm alluding to that. Because Scott the Squirrel decided the day that we set up our camp that we were impeding on his space in his territory. And I'm naming him Scott because he was all trouble for 11 days, and our brother's name is Scott. So it was just perfect. My most favorite thing. So jerk. Scott was a little avatar squirrel. I had another name for him, but that's kinder. Anyhow, he was a little avatar squirrel. He literally would jump through the trees like an avatar, the blue avatar, like the real avatar. And they would like the boughs would bounce like three or four feet up and down. I have videos of all of this. I will post and share. Anyhow, there's a large pole pine tree, super, super tall, like 50, 60 feet tall above our tent. Scott, little stinker, every morning, six o'clock a.m. camping in the woods, where you're supposed to sleep in. Next to a river where you're not supposed to hear anything, and it's just like the most peaceful sleep ever. Scott goes up the tree, starts gnawing on the pine cones on the very end of the branches. Sometimes he would gnaw a whole branch off and literally toss it onto our tent over and over and over and over again. I am not exaggerating when I tell you that Scott the Squirrel threw 50, 75, 100 pine cones or branches with pine cones onto the tent or onto the area where we were sitting in our chairs or trying to cook purposely. And you could literally see him tossing all of this, like looking at you, and then oh yeah, I have a video, I will share it. This is absolutely hysterical. So, anyhow, that was really funny. And then he stopped for about three days and we thought, Oh, well, this is cool. He's finally gotten used to us. No, the day before we left, he started throwing pine cones again and defaced pine cones on either end of the bench where we sit and pooped on either side. Like you people need to leave right now. So you're in my space. You're in my space. So that was actually a really fun adventure. We love to just sit in the woods and the wilderness. It's so good for your mental health and well-being. Some of our biggest adventures were carrying our chairs from our tent area by the river all the way down to the bridge. We had a place where we like to go bathe at night. We bathe in the river every day. So that's super fun. We saw a snake catch a fish, like real life discovery channel. Never seen that in our wild. Yeah, it was crazy. Got a whole video of that. Uh, we saw wolf tracks, fresh wolf tracks through the mud down the road on the day we were leaving. So that was really, really cool. I think one of the really cool things that happened to us in the wilderness this year is the people that we met. So, over the last 10, 11 years that we've been going to this one campsite that's secret. We don't tell anybody about it because it's a treasure. We have gotten to know the Forest Service crew really well. And Dick and Pam are in their 70s and they have grown up in that area. They run the Forest Service and they have literally become family. And we stay in touch all year round now. And so we can't wait to see them and spend time with them and reconnecting with the two of them. And Carla, who takes care of all the bathrooms, she's done it for 25 years, and just being able to nurture those friendships, even though we're away and in the wilderness, is very special to us. And then we also met some really cool people that camped near us this year and wound up having these very deep conversations about life and love and loss and legacy and just getting to know people randomly and why do these people show up in your life when they do? And why do your paths cross? And being able to lean into those moments and really allow the connection to take place for whatever it is, for however long it happens. Because I love connection and relationship and I love legacy, which is week six of summer camp. That part of our being away this year hit me pretty profoundly because we had some pretty incredible chance meetings with people that coincidentally went to college way back when with somebody I know here in Grand Junction or lives in the same community where Pop's best friend from Hanover College lives today. I mean, just really wild. Like, how does that happen in the woods of eastern Oregon that you know the same people? Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. So anyhow, we're all just goes. There's a little recap of our time away.

Erin 48:11

Oh, I love it. You and I spend so much time together. Work together so closely and talk all the time. And it was so exciting the couple of times that you got to check in, that I got to hear from you and just hear how everything was going. Of course, I live vicariously through you all summer, but I'm just, I'm so happy that you guys get to do this and that you prioritize it and take that time away. And you had so many incredible adventures. And so thanks for sharing it all with us. It's awesome.

Kellie 48:46

Well, I think the biggest takeaway is you may not be able to do what we did. And I I I really want to get that across. But the importance of taking an afternoon or a Saturday or putting your phone away for two hours, go on a walk without your earbuds in. Listen to the birds, listen to nature. Say hi to the people that you cross paths with. Go sit under a tree and just look up at the sky and watch the clouds overhead. Take the long way home. Go a different route, like you shared. Go sit by the pool. Take time out to call a friend versus text a friend. Things like this that actually allow our nervous systems to reset in minute to minute moments. It doesn't have to be this big getaway. And I even said on the video that I shared that we go every year not to get away. We go every year to protect the life that we're coming back to. I love that. That the daily choices we make and the vacationing choices we make should really be to protect this life that we are working so hard to build on a day in and day out basis. And our health and well-being in that matters. Rest isn't the opposite of productivity. It's actually part of our biology. We need to rest, we need to sleep, we need to recover. And we didn't call it wellness when we were six, 12, 16 going to summer camp. We just called it summer. Yeah. And so as adults, we have to reframe that. And so I'm hoping that that's what the summer camp series ultimately did, ultimately does. We're going to keep doing it every summer, is helps people prioritize because adults need summer camp too. I love it.

Erin 50:49

We've also got requests from people to please do P-I-G summer camp in person next summer. That could be fun. So stay tuned. That's really cool. Yep, very much so. Yeah.

Kellie 52:08

Now we're

Bringing Summer Camp Into Everyday Life

Kellie 52:09

home. There was another side of summer, and I think that especially given our values and our mission, and really the big conceptual way that we approached The P-I-G. It's important for us to honor some of the things that happened this summer that were not quite as fun as summer camp, and life still continues on. We spent six weeks talking about all the ways that summer can restore us, but the summer has also, this summer particularly has also been an extraordinary reminder of life doesn't stop happening just because we step away. In fact, locally in Colorado, when we left, the state of Colorado was on fire. Now we were traveling to the Pacific Northwest and through that whole area, and there weren't a lot of fires until after we were there and coming home. And the Pacific Northwest has been absolutely hammered. Three firefighters, Emily Barker, Nick Hutchardson, and Sidney Watson all died fighting a fire to save our community, the hometown where you and I grew up, and Marcus and I and our children and family all still live, Grand Junction, Western Colorado. There was a fourth firefighter, Nathan Matthews, who initially survived that burnover, but eventually died of his injuries. Six firefighters have died in entrapment incidences nationally this year. Four of them were right here in our own backyard. Devastating. So far, as of today, more than 46,500 wildfires have burned in the United States. 6.4 million acres. And we are not out of wildfire season. And wildfire season has become something that's happening now year-round.

Erin 54:29

Yeah.

Kellie 54:29

Not just seasonally. I mean, we're all living in a hotter climate. And there's more and more of that happening. And then, you know, we were in Court d'Alene, which is right next door to Spokane. And right after we got back, that horrific arson started fire in Spokane. And we know a lot of people who live and work in that area who call that community home. More than 900 homes were burned in that fire. So there's a lot of people restoring. They experienced a lot of loss at the time that we're out like playing in the world. And I think it's important for us to not belabor that, but to honor that. And fires were just one. I know for you and for Texas and for other parts of the country, it was flooding again. Yeah.

Erin 55:22

Which was crazy because so many know the absolute tragedy that unfolded in Central Texas last summer with the July 4th flood, you know, through central Texas, through the hill country. Ironically, connected to the summer camp, you know, and the flooding that tore through these camps and so many lives that were lost, including so many children that were just doing exactly what we just talked about. And I get all choked up about it still. There were just these little girls. Yeah. Right. It's summer camp who lost their lives and it was so devastating. You know, they really said that it was like this generational flood, right? And it was, it was catastrophic. Well, then this year it happened again. Right. Now it didn't tear through the summer camps like it did last year, but there were still so many lives lost and so much damage to property. There were areas where the flooding surpassed last year's generational flooding. And and it was so devastating. And it was so hard to be in Austin and being inundated with so much rain. Rain, rain, rain. And there we just wanted we needed the rain to stop because of all of the flooding.

Kellie 56:57

Right.

Erin 56:58

Meanwhile, the West is on fire. I was thinking about you and our hometown and all of the West and thinking, oh, I just want to send all of this rain to where it's really needed. Yeah. It has been devastating. And it was very hard to watch Central Texas and so many of these communities endure this again just one year later. Yeah. For so many families, they're still deep in the throes of grieving and recovering.

Kellie 57:32

And it will take a long time. Grief will last a long time. And recovery will take a long time. And so I think for us as sisters who camp is near and dear to our heart, natural disasters are near and dear to our heart. We want to hold space for those people whose summer didn't bring quite as much joy, happiness, adventure, fun, rest for them as it did for us. And on the heels of that, and we're just talking about a few events. These events are a drop in the bucket to what a lot of our listeners may have experienced in their own communities, in their own regions, where they live in their own homes. So we don't want to leave anybody out. But these are the things that have hit really close to home for us the fires, the floods. In Grand Junction, Colorado, just five days ago, five 17-year-old boys lost their lives in a very tragic car accident. Tristan Tucker, William Sims, Tyler Kersey, Braden Taylor, and Titus Gould. These five friends were enjoying a Saturday night out together in a car. Details of the accident don't matter, except that their car rolled off a cliff and none of them survived that accident. They were 17 years old and they were all slated to start their senior year of high school. And I want to bring that up because number one, it happened locally in our community, and we're going to post the memorial accounts and donation pages for all of those families on our website. So if people feel inclined to help support these families that are in deep, deep, deep mourning, that they have somewhere to go to do that. Sisters, this one hits kind of really close to home because 45 years ago, our older sister, Lori, and her two best friends also died in an accident together in this community. And this community rallied around Pop and our family and their families at a time when the most unbelievable grief that you will ever face as a parent is right in front of you. That phone call that you never ever want to receive. So I just wanted to mention that so that we honor the memory of those five boys, that we hold those families very close in our thoughts and our prayers, and that we provide a way for people who want to support them to be able to do so.

Erin 1:00:26

Thank you for talking about that. And it's just so tragic. And you know, Lori and her two friends that died in that accident were the same age as these five boys. But thank you for holding space for them. We will continue to do so. Our hearts are just with all of those families.

Kellie 1:00:50

Yeah.

Erin 1:00:51

With the entire community.

Kellie 1:00:53

And the community is certainly rallying, and these families will find a way forward and they will grow through this experience just like ours did and just like everybody's has to. I have other friends who have lost children just in the last months, and you know, watching them navigate that has been difficult. But I think that recognizing that loss is a part of life and that we don't understand the why, but we can hold on to wonder even in the face of loss. We can hold on to gratitude even in the face of grief. We can hold on to hope even in the face of walking that really hard road of healing, no matter what the loss is. We're talking here about loss through tragedy and death. But I think it circles back to that bigger theme that legacy suddenly means something different when somebody doesn't get enough years to build the one that they expected.

Erin 1:01:56

Yeah.

Kellie 1:01:57

And so to anybody who's listening who's going through a really hard time, the summer brought loss or tragedy or challenge or obstacle or trauma that you were not expecting, just know that we are holding space for you. And that we hope that The P-I-G continues to be somewhere that you can come to not just heal, but to find hope and to connect as you continue on your path forward into the next stage of life, living and legacy.

Erin 1:02:30

So beautiful,

When Summer Also Brings Loss

Erin 1:02:32

so with all of that and all of the summer camp themes and the legacy that we are living right now and creating, let's talk about what's next for us. Where do we go from here? Because Summer Camp really gave us space, and maybe that space also helped us realize that we're ready for something we haven't been ready for before. And so we have a lot of really exciting upcoming guests and things that we are really looking forward to in this next chapter. So a little tease of some upcoming guest conversations. We're gonna be talking with Hannah Banker, who has an extraordinary platform called the Birdie Launcher. Such a perfect time of year to have this conversation because birdie launching is the term that she uses instead of empty nesting. So, you know, when we become these birdie launchers, is our children fly the nest. And you and I are both in this phase, right? Where our children are leaving home and oh, mine are gone.

Kellie 1:04:24

Those birdies are launched, they're not anywhere near the nest. Out with you birds. They kicked us out of the nest more than we kicked them out of the nest. Feed it, nerds.

Erin 1:04:37

This is our nest now. But super excited to share our conversation with Hannah. And we talked about it earlier, right? Like the joy that we are experiencing now of having adult children and redefining what that parent-child relationship really looks like.

Kellie 1:04:56

One of my favorite things about her episode is when she says her son fired her because they rewrote her job description as a mother. And she came back later and told him to do something or whatever it was. And he's like, sorry, mom, that is no longer in your job description. I love that part of what she said. So I can't wait to hear it.

Erin 1:05:20

Yeah. Yeah, really incredible. And we are going to talk to, you know, Kim and Jenny and Joanne, and we're gonna have so many other guests coming up. Topics of loss, of course, and compounded loss. You know, Kim lost her son and her husband within weeks of one another and talking about continuing to live and love. And how do you find a way forward when life changes so profoundly, seemingly in an instant, right? And we just shared so many examples of that. Yeah. So holding space for that.

Kellie 1:05:54

And she's a great example of somebody who has turned her compounded loss. Into helping other people along that same road. And it's so remarkable to hear how she has healed through that and continues to heal through the process of helping.

Erin 1:06:14

Yeah, absolutely. You know, Jenny is another one, an upcoming guest. She's incredible and she's funny and witty and fun, but she's a dancer. And she has a very layered story, not just layered losses, but just a very layered story. She is an immigrant and she is a breast cancer survivor and she's a mom and had to reinvent herself and talks so much about how dance helped her find her way back to herself. And that's a really incredible episode that we can't wait to share. And what about Joanne? Tell our listeners about Joanne.

Kellie 1:06:52

Oh, Joanne's fun. So Joanne was a publicist that originally contacted us about having a guest on, and that is Dr. Becky Whetstone. And so that was really fun. But as we got to know Joanne, her personal story, and how the loss of her sister and a single statement that her sister made to her in the process of dying gave her the courage and the confidence to set aside everything that she was doing and finally follow her own dream and build the profession of her dreams. And so it's a really, really cool story that I can't wait to share. And then another one that I can't wait for is pet loss. Yeah. We're going to talk to a gentleman who lost his beloved Augie dog. And it ultimately led him to an Italian village that helped mend his broken heart. And so that story I think is going to reach so many people's lives because anybody who has ever had a pet, whether it's a dog, a cat, a bird, a fish, if you're our brother, it was an iguana, a snake, a weasel, tarantula, tarantula. But pets really become a part of our family, and especially, you know, man's best friend, the dogs. And so this is going to be a really beautiful story. I can't wait to share that one with him. We're of course going to talk more with Chris Howard about what's happening with the Boxes Project. And I think one of the things that I'm most excited about, we've alluded to it before, but we're really going to bring it to the forefront in this chapter is talking to the next generation, which is our children, for the first time. They're really going to sit behind the mic and share their perspectives on life, love, loss, and legacy. And these are grown adults between the ages of 20 and 29, you know, moving into that next decade of living, all cousins who have been a part of our very layered and complex family story. They've had their own layered and complex family stories and just life stories. And so to give them time and space to be able to share and unbox their own stories being Marsha's grandchildren. Yeah, I think it's going to be really extraordinary. I can't wait.

Erin 1:09:30

Yeah, it's really cool. And there's some really cool legacy threads woven throughout. Yeah. We talk all the time about how we see pieces of her in each of them. And so it's just going to be really beautiful. I can't wait to have these conversations. Yes. And like you mentioned in the beginning too, we are going to really start sharing openly with our community and our guests some more pieces of our story and unboxing our own story.

What Comes Next on The P-I-G

Erin 1:10:06

Yeah. This is big.

Kellie 1:10:08

You know, Erin, we've spent a year and a half asking other people to unbox their stories. And even though we've shared bits and pieces of ours along the way, or we've kind of alluded to certain things that are happened, have happened, but there are boxes, not memorabilia gift boxes. There are Pandora boxes. Some small ones, some medium ones, some big ones, and some really, really super extra large ones that haven't been opened here yet. Yeah. There are stories we haven't told, losses we've named without really unpacking what came before or after. And this isn't about exposing family secrets or settling scores, but about understanding what has happened in our lives, what it has taught us, what we've realized that we've carried both individually and together, recognizing what we've released, what we haven't, what all of it means now, and doing it in the spirit in the context of The P-I-G of purpose, intention, and gratitude, and that hearing the stories of others helps us create a more meaningful connection to our own. Almost two months ago, to the day you and I found out that our biological father died. Yes. And that was a really big moment. It was a big wave that had to kind of roll over the top of my back, especially because we have talked to our listeners quite a bit about the fact that I'm seven years older. I had almost a decade of life experience. I had a very close connection and relationship to our biological father. That changed in a very dramatic and profound way when I was coming out of elementary school. You were in preschool, but those memories really aren't there. So it's very different for you and I. Yeah. I think it comes back to me, Erin, to the point that I made earlier that taking time away isn't to escape our life, but it's to protect the life that we are already living and creating and to become more awake, more conscious in it. And like you said, to be very purposeful in the choices we make every day, day in and day out. So I am ready for the next chapter of The P-I-G. This has been a really fun conversation with you today. There's a whole lot more of this story to unbox, and I wouldn't want to unbox any of it with anybody other than you, our amazing guests, particularly our children. I'm excited for what's coming.

Erin 1:16:32

Thank you for adventuring with me. Thank you for sharing so openly and honestly. Thank you for cracking open that next layer of the unboxing of our story. I know that you weren't anticipating sharing that today, but I always love when you and when anybody just really listens to their heart and their gut. Let's go. Let's dive into the next chapter, the next season of The P-I-G, and I can't wait.

Kellie 1:17:04

It's gonna be extraordinary. We'll see you back here in a couple weeks with Hannah Banker. Love you, sister. Love you too.

Opening More of Our Own Boxes

Kellie 1:17:42

We hope today's conversation offered you insight, encouragement, or even just a moment to pause and reflect on the story you're living and the legacy you're creating.

Erin 1:17:51

If something in this episode moved you, please consider sharing it with someone you love. A small share can make a big impact. You can also join us on Instagram, Facebook, or LinkedIn and connect further at The P-I-Gpodcast.com.

Kellie 1:18:05

And if you're enjoying this podcast, one of the most meaningful ways you can support us is by leaving a five-star rating, writing a short review, or simply letting us know your thoughts. Your feedback helps us reach others and reminds us why we do this work.

Erin 1:18:21

Because The P-I-G isn't just a podcast.