Behind the Numbers: Han Li on SFUSD’s Budget

If you live in San Francisco, chances are you either went to public school, have a child in public school, or know someone who does. But even if you don’t, the health of our schools reflects the health of our neighborhoods, our tax dollars, and our shared future.

In this episode, I sit down with Han Li from The San Francisco Standard to unpack SFUSD’s budget crisis, the recent push for stabilization, and why school closures might still be on the horizon.

I hope that this episode will give you a clearer, human picture of what just happened and why it matters for all of us.

 Episode recorded: Friday, June 20, 2025

Articles by Han Li:

• SF’s school district says it finally figured out a budget to avoid bankruptcy  - 6/13/2025
• State warns SF schools: We’re not going to bail you out of budget armageddon - 5/7/2025
• SFUSD proposes major cuts to central office, slashing student services, curriculum unit - 4/15/2025
• Early retirements could spare SF public schools hundreds of painful layoffs - 2/25/2025
• SFUSD prepares for ‘painful’ cuts across schools, central office – 2/7/2025

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The Sunset Connection — exploring the stories and histories that connect us.

Chapters

• 0:00 SFUSD's Recent Struggles and Budget Balance
• 3:16 Han Lee's Experience Covering Education
• 7:19 School Closure Controversy and Leadership Change
• 13:10 State Oversight and Financial Restrictions
• 17:24 Public Education's Importance in San Francisco
• 21:52 Looking Forward: Enrollment and School Consolidation

Transcript

Jessica Ho - Host

00:04

Hello everyone, welcome back to the Sunset Connection. This episode dives deep into one of San Francisco's most talked about institutions the public school system. Back to SFUSD. The San Francisco Unified School District, also known as SFUSD, has been in the headlines a lot lately, though not always for the best reasons, from being placed under state oversight due to financial mismanagement to high profile school board recalls. It's been a rough few years, but recently SFUSD passed a balanced budget for the upcoming year, and that is a big deal, maybe a hopeful sign. Even so, what does it actually mean for students, for teachers, for families and for neighborhoods like the Sunset? To help us unpack all of this, we invited Han Li, education reporter at the San Francisco Standard. So welcome Han. 

Han Li - Guest

00:54

Hi Jessica, so happy to be here. 

Jessica Ho - Host

00:56

Yeah, so is this your first podcast. 

Han Li - Guest

00:59

Not really yeah, but you know I'm always like an avid listener to local podcasts. I'm so excited when you first launched this. 

Jessica Ho - Host

01:06

I'm so excited that you're here and I know you've been doing a lot of reporting on SFUSD and so I'm so glad that you can come and really help us kind of demystify the whole backstory of the budget and why it matters. And also you were a Sunset resident, right. 

Han Li - Guest

01:23

Yeah, I was living in Sunset during the pandemic for about two and a half years, because during the pandemic I need some more space, so I moved to the Great Highway area. Oh, interesting which is 48th and Ortega, so you know I had a good time there. But after the pandemic you know it's been the commute has been longer, so that's why I moved closer to downtown area. So I live in Richmond right now, which is still on the west side, not that far away, right right, do you miss anything about living on 48th Avenue? 

01:56

So at the time, because of the pandemic, and the Great Highway is fully closed to cars and it becomes like outdoor space, right. So, and during the time, we all work from home, we all we didn't have a lot of social events at the time, right, so I spent a lot of time walking, jogging there. 

Jessica Ho - Host

02:13

so it's, it's great I actually did not work from home during the pandemic. Uh, because I worked for a health care entity and so I had to go to the office. But I do remember the Great Highway and places like Golden Gate Park being sanctuaries where we could actually go out and, as long as we weren't near anyone, we could take off our masks, and it was really the only thing keeping me sane. So yeah, I totally get that. 

Han Li - Guest

02:36

Yeah. 

Jessica Ho - Host

02:37

What drew you to covering education for the SF Standard? 

Han Li - Guest

02:40

Yeah, so I've always been covering local politics, local government, right. And then San Francisco School District is also, you know, part of like a massive government entity that they have a lot of issues, they have a lot of problems, right. So I think, right, but last year I paid a lot more attention to it and, oh boy, it's such what a mess, right. And then every day I'm learning something new about this district and then I can give you like a little overview of what San Francisco school district is, right. 

Jessica Ho - Host

03:20

Sure. 

Han Li - Guest

03:21

So SFUSD, we know they have like about 50k students, so from kindergarten all the way to 12th grade, so you know there are tens of thousands of kids going to classes every day, right, and then we have about, you know, a couple thousand teachers and the total of like seven or 8,000 employees of the district, and then this district has about $1.3 billion every year of their budget, so $1.3 billion of their annual budget, and then, because of the financial crisis, they have to cut about $100 million, $115 million of it when you're covering this district. 

04:00

there are parents, there are teachers, right, there are students, there are different interest parties there and there are, you know, dramas and fights and everything right. 

Jessica Ho - Host

04:10

So every day I'm learning something new. 

Han Li - Guest

04:12

So that's like a basic overview of this San Francisco Unified School District. 

Jessica Ho - Host

04:17

Was there like a specific incident that drew you toward SFUSD? 

Han Li - Guest

04:21

Yeah, I think it was last year, so last year, when the state finally decided to downgrade the financial situation of SFUSD to negative, which means, okay, you've been overspending for years. If you keep doing this, you're going to go bankrupt. And that's why the state is coming in and basically give them like a strict control If you want to spend some money, I need to approve it first. So the state coming in, and that's like a major moment for a lot of reporters to kind of just jump on this because, oh, if the district is going bankrupt, what's going to happen to it? Nobody knows right. 

Jessica Ho - Host

05:02

What's going? 

Han Li - Guest

05:02

to happen to that thousands of families in the district right. 

Jessica Ho - Host

05:05

Yeah. 

Han Li - Guest

05:05

So that's going to have a major impact. That's why a lot more media attention are given to the district. 

Jessica Ho - Host

05:11

Yeah, so has your perspective on SFUSC changed as you've gotten deeper in the reporting and gotten to know, maybe, some of the parents and the teachers and even the district staff? 

Han Li - Guest

05:22

Yeah, I think I started to cover a lot more about districts since the you know lower high school and the school board recall back in 2021 and 2022, right, and that's a highly political period of time. And then, since I spent more time to look into the actual district issues since last year, I would say it's comparatively more stabilized right now after the chaotic school closure process late last year. So our new superintendent, maria Su, took over the district leadership, I think in October last year, and then she has been, you know, laser focused on the district budget and there's still here and there, there's still some scandals or controversies here and there, right, but largely the school board and the school district leadership are focusing on, you know, balance, the budget and, you know, student outcome, keep things, you know, very education focused rather than very political issues, right, so the district is largely stabilized, I would say. 

Jessica Ho - Host

06:28

Would you say that the shift really happened when Maria Su became the superintendent, or were you seeing the shift even before then? 

Han Li - Guest

06:36

Yeah, so I do think after Maria took over the school district leadership, the district is becoming a little less politicized. Less politicized because you know before when previous superintendent we have that super messy school closure process. 

Jessica Ho - Host

06:57

Yeah, tell me more about the school closure process. 

Han Li - Guest

07:00

Yeah, so the school district is facing a big financial deficit, right, and then also there is a reality of declining enrollment. So this kind of like a double reality is forcing the district to think about okay, we have fewer students, we have empty classrooms, then what shall we do with those places? And one of the solutions is maybe we close some schools, we consolidate some of those classrooms, right, and that's why we had that school closure process last year. And when you want to close schools, it's very personal because you know a lot of students might need to like go to different places and then you know they might be separated from their friends, right, Basically driving a lot of people to be very engaged and making this process very emotional, and that's why it's such a big mess last year. 

Jessica Ho - Host

07:49

So that was like a flashpoint and from what I remember it happened in September, like the beginning of the school year last year, so that was before Maria was even appointed the superintendent, correct? 

Han Li - Guest

08:00

Yeah, so actually the process started probably in summer or even longer than that, but the actual series talking about it it's like summertime. So it spent months deciding okay, there are some school needs to be closed here, or some of the requirement here, or some of the methodology right, but the process was never that transparent. And then in October I think, there was a bombshell. Okay, this 13th school are on the list. That list was published. 

Jessica Ho - Host

08:28

The list was published in October. Was that right when Maria was appointed, or was that before or after? 

Han Li - Guest

08:33

That's a really good question and after the school list was published, the previous superintendent was in that massive controversy. And then the massive outcry, massive backlash. 

Jessica Ho - Host

08:44

Right. 

Han Li - Guest

08:44

And then, I think, within maybe two, three weeks, he resigned and then Maria Su come in oh, got it. 

Jessica Ho - Host

08:51

So do you think that the school closure fiasco was part of the reason why the former superintendent resigned? 

Han Li - Guest

09:00

Definitely. 

Jessica Ho - Host

09:01

Is that what he said? I don't know if he actually said that. 

Han Li - Guest

09:03

Yeah, definitely. I think he was in that deep controversy at the time and within weeks he resigned yeah, or forced to quit, who knows. 

09:13

Wow. So that was a pivotal turning point. But what has Maria Su actually done differently since stepping in, and is it enough to stabilize the district? 

Han Li - Guest

09:21

After the superintendent quit and then Maria Su took over the leadership of the district, she immediately halted the school closure process and ensure everybody there will be no school closure talk in the next school year. So that's kind of like stabilizing everything. 

09:40

And it kind of like depoliticized and kind of removed some of the controversy about this. And then at the time a lot of people have a huge confidence in Maria because she's coming from City Hall, she used to work with youth and families and she has a lot of political support and political connections at the time. So there's a short period of honeymoon, as we say, like political honeymoon for her. 

Jessica Ho - Host

10:05

Okay, would you say that she's no longer in the honeymoon period now? 

Han Li - Guest

10:08

Well, it's San Francisco politics, right. So nothing can last that long peacefully. So because he has to make a lot of painful cuts, right? So I think the controversy is slightly coming back, but you know it's not as chaotic as the school closure process. It's not like that now. Yeah. 

Jessica Ho - Host

10:26

Like what made the school closure process last year so chaotic and what has she done this year to kind of prevent that chaos? 

Han Li - Guest

10:33

I think school closure is solved. No matter how you do it, it will be controversial, right, but this year because that's not on the table. So it automatically kind of like making the whole controversy a level lower, got it? You know what I mean? And then this year she has to lay off some people, she has to, like, cut some of the staffing to save money, and you know that's a painful process too, but she used a way to encourage people to choose early retirement. So it becomes like a voluntary process. 

Jessica Ho - Host

11:04

Yes. 

Han Li - Guest

11:04

So people would just voluntarily, okay, choose to retire and then the district save some budget, right. So that's like one of the key part of her accomplishment, I would say, or achievement, to kind of make this process less painful while also saving the money. And, as you can imagine, if she wants to close school to save money, no matter how she's going to do it, it will be highly contentious, no matter what. 

Jessica Ho - Host

11:29

So how long has it been since the SFUSD had a balanced budget? 

Han Li - Guest

11:34

I do want to clarify a little bit. Sfusd always has balanced budgets. Every year they will pass a balanced budget, right? The only difference this time is they pass a balanced budget to avoid bankruptcy. So before they pass their balanced budget, they keep overspending overspending right, and if they keep doing that it will lead to bankruptcy. But this year they pass a balanced budget will lead them to avoid bankruptcy. So that's the difference. 

Jessica Ho - Host

12:05

Interesting. And then they have to submit their budget to the state right for their approval. 

Han Li - Guest

12:10

Yeah, so for the bureaucratic process. It's a little complicated here. So Maria will submit this budget twice to the school board and the school board will approve it and then the state would maybe take a look right? So the earliest for the state to remove their oversight, to remove their restriction on local finance situation, right, will be December. So that will be the timing oh, you're free, you're no longer under my restriction or oversight that will be December. 

Jessica Ho - Host

12:41

How have things changed since the state has taken over local control? 

Han Li - Guest

12:46

That's a good question. I think one of the biggest differences is, no matter what your financial bending decision is in the district, you have to somehow get the state approval, like if you want to hire this position, if you want to spend some money on that right, the state needs to kind of look at it to see if this is necessary. Because they don't trust you, they don't trust your financial decision or they don't trust your ability to spend your money wisely. So that's like a really big part of it and that leads to a lot of frustration because you know teacher hiring should be something very local, because if an elementary school needs something, they know the best right. But because of this restriction right, that leads to a lot of controversy and teacher union has been protesting a lot on this too. But now because the district leadership and the state oversight, we call it like a financial advisor. 

13:43

I guess the school leadership and the financial advisor from the state. They kind of work together pretty well. Some of those restrictions are partially lifted right now and we're looking for maybe at the end of the year when the state oversight is fully removed. Then the district can retain fully control of their financial decision. 

Jessica Ho - Host

14:03

So is it like when the local SFUSD wants to spend something above a certain amount, they have to like get approval from the state. 

Han Li - Guest

14:12

Yes, that's the situation and that's what a lot of people, especially teacher union, are pretty frustrated with. 

Jessica Ho - Host

14:17

Yeah, yeah, that is frustrating. Yeah, and how many other school districts in California are restricted under the State Department of Education? 

Han Li - Guest

14:29

A lot of other districts probably. They all face, you know, declining enrollment, right or certain financial struggle. But facing a total state takeover might not be that common. 

Jessica Ho - Host

14:42

Right, so San Francisco, compared to other school districts, is not doing that well financially. 

Han Li - Guest

14:48

Exactly, yes, but because Maria is cutting $130 million in the budget this year and the state is like that's, you know you're doing pretty good, so that's like you know, one step forward. 

Jessica Ho - Host

15:03

In the right direction. 

Han Li - Guest

15:05

Exactly. That's one step in the right direction. 

Jessica Ho - Host

15:09

Yeah, that's that's important and, you know, for people who are that don't have kids that are going through SFUSD or have kids at all, right, I've been thinking a lot about how this impacts them, right, like, why should we care about, you know, kids that aren't our own? And I think one of the things that I've I wanted to kind of bring up is that just some statistics that really like opened my eyes about what's going on right now. We have in San Francisco about 800,000 people and we have an estimated about 100,000 kids, and 50,000 of them go to SFUSD, which means that about 50% or half are going to parochial schools or private schools, and then so parents are actively making the decision to not send the kids to SFUSD, and I think this really raises an alarm in my head. It's part of our infrastructure, it's part of our democratic institution that we have good local education for our kids, and if half of the kids in San Francisco are not going to SFUSD, what does that say about our education system as a whole? 

Han Li - Guest

16:21

I do think San Francisco does have a highest rate of kids going to private school in the Bay Area or maybe even California, right? And I think there are some reasons behind it. One is, of course, the public school district. They don't have a good reputation. Parents probably would think about, oh, I don't want to send my kids there, right? And the other reason is there are a lot of wealthy families living in the city. They can just afford private school. So that's also a reality in San Francisco. Everything is so expensive here and there are some wealthy families who could afford private school. 

16:54

And back to our first question how can someone they don't have a kid in the district, but still you know care about this, or you know what's the impact on them? Because, do you believe in public school? I think that's the fundamental question, right? Do you believe we should have clean water? Do you believe we should have, you know, some basic product provided by the government to give people opportunities if they want a good education? 

17:23

Not everybody can afford a 40k tuition fee per year in the private school, right? It's crazy. So you have to give people this opportunity, and that's why public education is so important and that's why SFUSD is attracting so much attention and so many people want to make it better, even though the reality is we do have a higher percentage of kids going to private school. But there are still highly engaged families living in the city trying to improve the school district and there are people without kids. They're still, you know, actively helping to improve the district right? So you know, no matter who you are, no matter if you have like kids in the district or not, you can still be part of it because you know, no matter who you are, no matter if you have like a kids in the district or not, you can still be part of it because you know it's for the betterment for our whole society. 

Jessica Ho - Host

18:10

I mean, they're going to be our future doctors, our future lawyers, right, our future AI overlords, we don't know, like. As for me, I don't have kids. I care very deeply about other people's kids right now, because they are our future, they are the next generation and, speaking of which, these school closures are not completely off the table. So, even though we're in a moment where we've taken one positive step in the right direction for SFUSD, which we should celebrate right, because it's been a couple hard years what does the future look like in terms of that conversation? 

Han Li - Guest

18:44

I think the superintendent is ready to reopen this conversation because she hinted to the reporters already that she basically said you know she will spend the next year reviewing all the classroom and all the empty classroom and you know how many students are going to certain schools, certain programs, and then she would think about maybe repurpose some of the school to special education or to the kindergarten education or transitional kindergarten. So that's kind of hinting. Okay, if certain school they don't have high enrollment or there are too many empty classrooms, right, they might reuse that space and make it into something else and that might lead to consolidate classrooms. Right, they might reuse that space and make it into something else and that might lead to consolidated classrooms, consolidated schools. 

Jessica Ho - Host

19:30

What is she suggesting this conversation happen? 

Han Li - Guest

19:33

I think it could happen anytime right now, because the next school year will start in September, I think, and then maybe that's the time she will look into this issue. But that's the reality of the district, right? There is a declining enrollment. That's the reality. And then you have empty classrooms. And what's the best way to provide quality education to the kids, right? 

Jessica Ho - Host

19:54

Yes, well, thank you so much, han. I really appreciate it. 

Han Li - Guest

19:57

Thank you, glad to be here. 

Jessica Ho - Host

19:58

And I will be sure to link all of the articles that you mentioned in the show notes. And if you're interested in reading more about SFUSD, head to SF Standard and look for Han Lee's articles. I learned so much from Han and I hope you did too. If you found today's episode helpful, please share it with a friend, especially if they're navigating SFUSD or if you just want to stay informed about local issues. Subscribe, share and come say hi, I'm Jessica Ho and this has been the Sunset Connection. 

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