Ep 601: The Butterfly Effect with Gilad Avrahami and Bernie Furshpan on hmTv

In this thought-provoking episode of The Butterfly Effect, hosts Gilad Avrahami and Bernie Furshpan explore the ethical implications of the multiverse and what the idea of endless possibilities can teach us about choice, responsibility, hope, and human connection.

Together, they unpack how concepts from physics, philosophy, consciousness, and imagination can help us better understand the impact of our thoughts and actions. From parallel possibilities and time travel stories to prayer, hope, collective consciousness, and the power of positive vision, the conversation moves beyond science fiction into the deeply human question of how we shape the world around us.

Gilad and Bernie also connect these ideas to the lessons of the Holocaust, resilience, antisemitism, and the responsibility to remain hopeful even in difficult times. They reflect on how envisioning a better future is not passive optimism, but an ethical act — one that can inspire courage, action, and the collective will to push back against hate.

This episode is a reminder that every choice matters, every thought has power, and every act of hope can create a ripple far beyond what we can see.

Transcript

Episode 601: The Butterfly Effect

Hosts: Gilad Avrahami and Bernie Furshpan

Presented by hmTv at HMTC

Gilad Avrahami:
Hello, and thank you for joining me today. I’m your host, Gilad Avrahami. I’m the Programs and Development Coordinator here at HMTC, and I’m pleased to welcome my co-host, Bernie Furshpan, the Director of Marketing, Public Relations, and Media here at HMTC.

This podcast is a production of the Holocaust Memorial & Tolerance Center of Nassau County.

On today’s episode of The Butterfly Effect on hmTv, please join us for a conversation about the ethical implications of the multiverse.

Bernie Furshpan:
I’m exhausted already, quite honestly, just thinking about that.

Gilad:
I’m a little bit scared, but I’m also really excited about this topic because I think the multiverse says a lot about even this single universe.

Now, if you don’t know the physics background, we’ll walk you through it. But what we want to get to today is the idea that there may be many other versions of yourself, and many other versions of the world, where different choices were made and different things are happening.

That can tell us a lot about the choices we make in this universe, who we are, what matters, and why we make the choices we do.

So Bernie, can you break down for us what we are really talking about when we talk about the multiverse?

Bernie:
What does that mean in physics?

In cosmology, which is the study of the cosmos, there are theories suggesting that the universe we live in now, at this moment, may be multiplied many times over.

It is sometimes described like bubbles in a bathtub. You see many bubbles, and they are almost touching one another. There are many theories about the multiverse. Some suggest that it may be layered in different dimensions rather than existing as physical bubbles. So instead of separate bubbles, it may be layers of dimensions that are here with us at this very moment.

There are other theories that suggest this universe may be the net result of all the multiverses. I do not know whether those theories claim it is infinite or finite. Personally, I do not think anything is truly infinite in this universe. There is a finite number and a finite end to this universe, even though it is expanding.

So this reality we are experiencing today could possibly be the net result of all these universes.

But somehow, according to philosophy, some religions, and some scientific ideas, we may have the ability, to some degree, to tap into other possibilities and change our experiences and our world.

That is what many people believe: that they can pray, wish, or hope for change. Somehow, it is as though another universe opens up, or we walk through another door, and other possibilities and events become available as a result of our visions.

Gilad:
Right.

I’m thinking about the times when I feel like I’m communicating with my future self. Maybe that is still just on a single timeline, but the thoughts going through my head are preparing me for the possibility of something else.

Or maybe I’m communicating with my past self, saying, “Why did you do it that way?”

To me, that is some kind of manifestation of this idea too — the idea that we have the ability to transcend what is directly in front of us and imagine other worlds and other possibilities.

We do this all the time. We create “what if” questions in history. We say, “What if this had happened instead?” Maybe it would have changed the course of human history. We can imagine an entire book or book series based on that possibility.

Fantasy stories do something similar. They may not even try to find a pivot point in real history. They simply imagine another world, and we place ourselves into those characters with complete ease.

I think we relate to the idea that it is limiting to believe that whatever exists today is the only thing that can be. Instead, we recognize how random and strange the universe is, and we place ourselves and the world into other versions that could exist.

Time travel stories are another great example. Someone goes back in time, changes something very small, and then comes forward again to find that something has changed. You encounter another version of yourself who is only slightly different, someone who went through almost the same things you did.

And I think you can almost have a conversation with that version of yourself. You can picture all the things that happened in that person’s life and say, “It is kind of me, but it is also not me.”

Bernie:
You introduced the word ethics, so the question becomes: is it ethical to think about these theories and practice these ideas?

In fact, most people do this all the time. We just do not realize it.

We are intuitive about these things. For example, prayer and hope. We use those words naturally in conversation. The Israeli national anthem, Hatikvah, is about hope. Hoping means visualizing something positive.

There is something intuitive about that.

Many people also become very upset if someone curses them. They say, “Take it back.” Why do we say that? Because intuitively, we feel that the words may have an influence in this universe that could be harmful or detrimental to us or our family.

I want to backtrack a little because this is something I have been thinking about for at least 40 years.

Quantum mechanics and physics have demonstrated that particles in the physical realm can move in and out of a particle state and then return to the state of a wave. A particle is something you can observe, but a wave is something you cannot see in the same way.

It is a little like light or electricity. A lightbulb is going on and off many times per second, but we do not experience it as flickering. We see a smooth experience of light.

In a similar way, science suggests that atoms may disappear and reappear so many times per moment. And it is in that tiny moment, when something disappears and then returns to physical form, that perhaps there is a shift.

A lot of people provide seminars and workshops on envisioning positive outcomes and then seeing those outcomes manifest. So how does that happen? How do we draw things toward us?

Maybe it is in that silent moment, when everything disappears and then reappears. Maybe our consciousness creates a vision, and then physical form manifests or brings toward us the things we are focused on.

So is that ethical? I think it is something we have always been doing. That is why we have a mind. That is why we envision positive things. That is hope.

Gilad:
That reminds me of the question: if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound?

If you are looking at light and cannot tell that it is vibrating or flickering, it is still doing that. It is still happening even if we are not perceiving it.

We are often constrained by what we see directly in front of us. On the topic of ethics, that can lead to a lot of issues.

The things we have seen most recently are more likely to inform what we think we should do next. If we heard about something in the news yesterday, we may become convinced that it is the main reason for what is happening.

There are cognitive biases, including recency bias, that show how influenced we are by what is immediately around us.

That can also constrain our ability to imagine other worlds or other possibilities. What I try to think about with the multiverse is that we are participating in something extraordinary. We have the ability to make decisions that shift things in one direction or another, even if we are not aware of the full world of possibilities.

You might be very focused on whatever is happening in your world at this exact moment, and not on the broader realm of what exists beyond it. That might prevent you from making a better decision, or from considering other people in your world.

One of the things we try to teach here at HMTC is not to think only about what affects you, but to consider what affects other people. That broadens our capacity for empathy, understanding, and learning.

The universe is not just you.

When you are a child, you do not even fully recognize that there is something outside of you. It takes time to realize that everyone else has this same “I,” this same sense of self. At first, you think you are the only “me.”

It is similar with object permanence. It takes time to realize that things still exist when they are no longer in your field of vision.

That is part of how we develop personally, but it is also part of how we make wiser decisions. We increasingly learn to recognize what is far away from us, outside of us, and still real.

Bernie:
Well said.

I like the way you tied that together.

People do have limitations in terms of what they can see and hear. There are frequencies we cannot see or hear, and there may be dimensions we are not aware of because we do not yet have the instruments to detect them.

So when a person envisions something, and then there is a manifestation of that thing, we may not even recognize it. We might look the other way.

For example, how many times have you had a song in your head, and then you turn on the radio or walk into a store and that song is playing? Or you say a word, and suddenly you see that same word on a sign?

It happens.

Gilad:
It feels like serendipity.

Bernie:
Exactly.

But what if you did not look at that sign? The coincidence was still there. What if you did not turn on the radio? The song was still playing, but you were not aware of it.

So if you are willing for something to happen, and you are drawing it toward you from all these possibilities, many times we may simply not notice the manifestation.

Let’s say you want to meet a certain influential person who could positively affect your career. A friend calls and says, “Come over tonight. I have some friends coming over.” But you say, “I’m too tired.” That person may have been there for you to meet.

There are so many possibilities happening all the time. With all these multiverses, the possibilities are almost infinite. They are always hitting us, but we are often not aware of them.

If you sing a song in your head, it may be playing in a million places, but you are not tuned into those places.

The point is that we do have some kind of influence. We just may not be aware of how we are impacting things. If you open your mind, heart, and eyes, you begin to see what we call coincidences. But maybe they are not really coincidences.

Gilad:
Songs are such an interesting example.

Almost any song that exists is a little different from some other kinds of creation. If you write a memoir, it is based on your own experiences. You cannot write someone else’s memoir.

But a song, or even a work of fiction, is something that anyone theoretically could have come up with. It takes someone singing something in their head, trying it out, and eventually arriving at it.

The whole concept of what arrives in our heads, how it gets there, and how connections are drawn between people is fascinating.

There have been cases where different people wrote nearly the same story. There are also mythologies from different cultures that never had contact with each other but developed similar flood stories, for example.

There are scientific explanations, such as the possibility of a major flood, but those explanations do not cover everything. Some mythological systems historically had no contact with each other, and yet people reached similar ideas and conclusions about the universe.

There is something in the human psyche, or perhaps beyond it, that brings people to the same ideas in astounding ways.

In the same way, we all have the capacity to come up with something, to look around at our surroundings, create stories, write songs, make music, and connect strongly with other people — if we are willing to venture out and do it.

Bernie:
So there is your butterfly effect.

There was a scientist, I believe from England, who studied animals. He trained a particular type of bird in Australia to eat a worm from the opposite side from how it usually did. Then the same type of bird in Canada began eating the worm the same way.

He called it collective consciousness.

There is your butterfly effect. Somehow, someway, according to science, we are all connected. We may not know exactly how.

This is part of the entanglement theory that Einstein referred to as “spooky action,” or spooky behavior. When one subatomic particle behaves in a certain way and becomes entangled with another, and then the two are separated across space, they still behave in connected ways.

That suggests the butterfly effect is not just a wave moving through space. It may be instantaneous. If you think something, perhaps someone else is thinking something connected to it.

As cultures evolved around the planet, many were isolated and separated from one another, but they developed in similar ways: music, instruments, weapons, food, structures, even pyramids.

When you really think about it, it is fascinating.

We are influencing other people, but other people are influencing us at the same time. Maybe we are all the net result of all these influences. Maybe that is what the multiverse is all about.

Gilad:
That is what makes it so beautiful when you discover something, or come into contact with someone who loves something similar to what you love, and you realize that you both came to the same conclusions or had the same thoughts.

It is a magical version of human connection.

But it also makes me think that the multiverse may not be quite as infinite as it sounds. It may contain an extraordinarily large number of possibilities, but it is still limited by the kinds of circumstances that could happen.

There probably is not a multiverse where, one second from now, I am suddenly in Antarctica. Physics still provides constraints, and those constraints guide us toward certain results.

So yes, many other things could have happened, but our world also guides us in certain directions.

We discussed this during another episode of The Butterfly Effect — that we should not necessarily be scared by randomness or by not knowing the outcome. We can use that uncertainty to gain confidence and power.

If you try hard enough at something, that is an important method of moving toward your goal. You may not know exactly how you will get there. It may involve many twists and turns. But you are guiding yourself, and maybe other versions of yourself, toward something more in line with what you want or believe.

That is where ethics come in.

The multiverse raises the question of free will. If everything can happen, then does it matter what I choose? Am I just one version among all versions?

But I do not think that means our choices do not matter.

As you were saying, if this universe is the net result of something larger, perhaps it all makes sense in a way we do not fully understand. The universe we are living in is not random. It has so much to do with what came before us, what still needs to come, and what we are working toward.

We have to recognize our power, even in our thoughts, to create habits and shape outcomes.

I also think about global warming. There are charts that show different possible trajectories. One line goes sharply upward, one is in the middle, and one is flatter. These are theoretical futures, and they are all influenced by the decisions we make today.

Over the next 100 years, we will decide which direction we go in. That chart will continue to change.

But the recognition that all those possibilities exist is something we can hold in our minds at the same time. There is not one definite course of action. There are many possibilities.

I think that is similar to how I think about the multiverse. We can also picture charts like that for our own lives. This path might take me toward one job, another path toward another job, another path toward something entirely different.

If we can hold those possibilities in our minds, we can take advantage of that awareness.

Bernie:
Absolutely.

You also mentioned time, and time is something created by people. There is no time in space in the way we experience it. We label time so that we can put things in order in our minds, organize experiences, and compartmentalize.

If this planet were not spinning, how would we determine what a day is? What is a minute?

A lot of what limits us is what we have created: time and even space as we understand it. We are not always thinking about other dimensions, or the fact that time may not exist in the way we imagine it.

It is something we fabricated so our minds can digest and comprehend what is happening.

We are limited by language, by ideas, and by what we have learned. To understand this bigger idea, we have to let go of some preconceived notions and try to see the broader picture.

On another planet, like Venus, a day is entirely different compared with an Earth day. So we have to see the bigger picture.

I think that helps us understand that what we think and what we do really does impact other people. And it reminds us not to give up.

Resilience is key. Whatever your message is, whatever your mission is, do not give up. When you hear ultra-successful artists or athletes speak, they often say, “Follow your dream, but never give up.”

That is true. There is an impact. You cannot let it go. Sometimes people quit way too soon, just before they are about to cross the finish line.

Gilad:
I think the moment people quit may represent the moment they stop envisioning the multiverse.

They feel stuck. They feel like, “This is it.”

Bernie:
They lose the bigger picture.

Gilad:
Exactly.

There is something much bigger. Whether it means you keep pursuing the same thing or choose a different direction is a question each person has to ask for themselves.

I was also thinking about the Holocaust in relation to this topic.

For the victims, it may have felt like everything was leading toward one inevitable conclusion. History looked that way for a while: person after person after person entering gas chambers. It was relentless, almost like time itself, and it may have seemed impossible to keep hope alive.

But so many people did not choose to stop hoping.

Bernie:
My father survived three years during the Holocaust. He told me that he always envisioned himself outside the war, after the war.

Every day, he kept that image in his mind.

I think that is powerful. If you think negative things, you are more likely to get negative results. If you are always focused on bills, or fear, or disaster, that thinking shapes your experience.

When I was a chiropractor, I had patients who were constantly in car accidents. It was almost as if they were always thinking about being in an accident. They were always afraid.

Fear creates negative visions and negative thoughts.

So we have to think positively, especially today with antisemitism. How do we apply this to what is happening in the world?

Practically speaking, this is not a good time for the Jewish people, for the world, or for humanity. But I believe we also need to think positive thoughts and believe that we will get beyond this.

I am a very hopeful person. I believe the pendulum eventually swings the other way. It may reach an extreme point, and I do not know when that is or whether we have already reached it, but it will swing back.

Something will pull people in a different direction. It always does, even though a lot of pain can happen before that occurs.

I think people are pushing back against hate, and the collective consciousness of pushing back hate will eventually create its own butterfly effect.

Gilad:
I hope you are right.

But it requires a lot of action, because the pendulum swings when people stand together.

We talk about being upstanders and about how many of these changes require critical mass.

Bernie:
I was just going to say that.

Gilad:
So much of that is human nature — reacting to what we see. But at the very least, this is the time to create the building blocks, not just out in the world, but in our own minds, of what we want the world to look like next.

If negative thoughts can lead to negative results, then we each have a responsibility to imagine and build a better future.

Even if this specific problem changes, a future driven by negative thinking will create more negative outcomes.

Each of us can take responsibility and play a role in making sure the future ahead of us is built from the best version of what we want the world to look like.

You used the word hope. Hope means we can envision a different world.

Bernie:
Exactly. We need more hope.

Gilad:
Yes. We need more love. If you cannot envision a world where things are different, then it will never be different.

Bernie:
Why do so many cultures and religions talk about hope, prayer, and positive intention?

We even see it on social media. Someone says, “I have a friend in the hospital. Please send your prayers.” Those prayers are visions for positive outcomes.

I think we need more people doing that.

When we are afraid and fearful, when we imagine doomsday, we create negative visions. That only draws more negativity.

We have to think positive things.

Gilad:
Beautifully said, Bernie.

Thank you, and thank you to everyone for tuning into this episode of The Butterfly Effect on hmTv.

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