
k-ID Talks
Parenting in the digital age isn’t about control — it’s about guidance. In k-ID Talks, online safety experts share practical insights to help you foster healthy digital habits at home — without the screen-time struggles. Tune in and make digital parenting simpler, smarter, and more empowering.
k-ID Talks
From World of Warcraft to Saving the Children: One Gamer’s Mission to Protect Kids Online
Tune in for a powerful conversation between Nichlas Hellmark, Gaming Lead at Save the Children, and Kay Vasey from k-ID exploring:
- How a former World of Warcraft pro turned a tragic loss into a global mission to protect kids online
- What children really want help with—and why adults often miss the mark
- Why online friendships are real, meaningful, and sometimes life-saving
- The promise and peril of AI in children’s digital lives
- How to create safe, empowering spaces that meet kids where they are—without sacrificing their privacy
This is a must-listen for any parent, educator, or tech leader navigating the intersection of childhood, gaming, and mental health in an AI-powered world.
Let’s empower families and reshape the digital landscape, together.
Kay Vasey (00:00)
Hello, it's Kay here. And today I'm chatting with Nichlas Helmark, Gaming Lead at Save the Children International who's based in Sweden. Not only was he a former professional World of Warcraft player, he also launched the AI-driven Support for Children online project, which aims to enhance the mental health of children and teenagers through online gaming by leveraging cutting-edge technology and innovation. Nichlas also leads the strategy for funding and partnerships, focusing on initiatives that create a safe and positive digital childhood for children worldwide. Hello Nichlas, how are you doing today?
Nichlas Hellmark (00:32)
Hi Kay, good morning to you. I'm doing great today,
Kay Vasey (00:34)
Brilliant, thank you. I find your work so incredibly inspiring and I'd love to know what first motivated you to get involved in protecting children?
Nichlas Hellmark (00:41)
Thank you so much, Kay. I was sort of saying, I've been a lifelong gamer. My very first love was Diablo 2, but I quickly latched on to World of Warcraft when it came out. A while later when I was in uni, I had a breakthrough, basically
The group I was leading quickly became the best in the world. We were the first ones to complete a big event. And from that point on, I had endless offers to come and play for other groups and to lead these groups and be paid very well to do so. And for about six months I did. I had great fun.
My days were basically consisting of moving into a new group and getting them through the content and then moving on to the next group and learning to know them and getting them to the same place. But I looked back at it six months later and realised "when did I go outside last?" "what else do I have going on in my life?" I needed to change something, so I did summer interning for Save the Children. I called them up "I need something to do from 9 to 5. “What have you got?" I worked in finance for them for a number of years, eventually I'd completed everything I wanted to in the game. So I retired. After having retired I was still working in finance and I didn't feel that it was quite as fulfilling as I had previously. I looked back on my time in gaming and realized there's a lot of things out there that are amazing about gaming. And we could do a lot better when it comes to keeping children safe.
I went to my organization and asked, “I'd like to start up gaming on your behalf”. And that kicked off this entire journey.
Kay Vasey (01:56)
That is so cool.
have you got a pivotal moment perhaps in your career since you started as the gaming lead that has kind of shaped your approach to then protecting children?
Nichlas Hellmark (02:07)
The most pivotal moment I had is actually from before I took on this role. It's going back to the days when I was still playing professionally and I was leading groups where the goal was to sort of build the group over time. But we had a player that was a great guy. Everyone loved to be around him, he was amazing in his role.
He was really spreading joy about him. But over time this person sort of became less interested and he started picking fights with people that he had previously been super friendly with. And overall he just became an extremely toxic dude. And it sort of became clear to us, all of us, that, well, something's going on here. This guy isn't really in the best of places.
And we tried talking to him multiple times, we tried to change the schedule for him, we tried to change his role and things of that nature. But it seemed that no matter what we did, it didn't really help the problem. And it just became progressively worse, so nearly six months I would say. And then all of a sudden he just wasn't coming online anymore. And we were like, yeah, okay, he finally quit. Maybe he wasn't so happy with the game after all. But unlike so many other times before, he actually came online about three weeks later.
And he came online and we had a message from him saying hey this is so-and-so's dad I regret to inform you that he took his life so he's not with you anymore I just want to let people know because we know he really liked this community so that sort of kicked off the conversation internally and was like well what's going on here and we had a couple of people that were really close to him but unfortunately they weren't able to travel
So I talked to the dad and I essentially asked him like, hey, is there going to be a funeral? And I went to this funeral in Germany. So I go there and it's his family, it's his friends, he has a bunch of siblings. There's nothing out of the ordinary with this family. It's a typical middle-class family. And as I'm sitting there throughout the eulogy and talking to the people, it becomes so obviously clear that no one had any clue that this person wasn't feeling too great, that he was most likely depressed.
But to us who'd been online, we could clearly see the signs. And I'm convinced to this day that a single phone call to his parents would have changed this guy's life. So that sort of inspired some of the work that we're doing here as well. Because if we who were online with him could so clearly see the signs, and all it takes is to engage the protection system that is available to him, essentially his family and friends, then surely we can make something out of that when it comes to children as well.
Kay Vasey (04:20)
That's so sad. Thank you so much for sharing. I think it really highlights to me the importance of conversations, right? It's so important to have those open, honest communication lines
Nichlas Hellmark (04:31)
I would truly say also that what really struck us is that we felt so helpless. You know this person, you spend all your time with them. It's 10 plus hours a day easily. And yet you can't really do anything to affect them or help them in real life. So I think it really struck me that we need to do something about that.
Kay Vasey (04:48)
Yeah, I think sometimes parents underestimate the depth of the bonds that can actually be created online. Because it's not real. You can't touch these people. You can't hug them. You can't be in the same room. So how could you possibly have such a strong and deep friendship with these people? But I have a friend who used to be really into Halo. And when it came to the time to have his
He actually invited some of the people that he was playing with and all the rest of us were like, Isn't that kind of strange? You've actually never met this person in real life and now he's going to turn up at your wedding But he's like you have no idea how long I have sat talking to this guy as we've been kind of hiding from the enemy And you know, we we've shared so much together that I genuinely feel like he's part of my family And so I feel like he needs to be and I want him there at my wedding.
So I think the more that parents and families can have those lines of communication open so that they are aware of who their children are talking to online and also never underestimate the depth of those potential relationships which can be incredibly powerful. Both again though, really positively, but also potentially really negatively if the child gets drawn into a conversation with someone who's actually a bad actor rather than a good actor.
Nichlas Hellmark (06:04)
Absolutely, it's a generational issue. The younger the person, the less they will make this differentiation between their online life and their offline life, and they'll really see it as just an extension of each other. And of course, if you have a friend, why wouldn't you want them at your wedding? You can drop the online offline part of it.
Kay Vasey (06:21)
Exactly, do you feel that there has been an unexpected lesson that you've learned along the way and that has potentially changed the way you actually view the work that you do?
Nichlas Hellmark (06:31)
Yes, I think there's a bit of a societal story that says that, well, there's these people out there that really want something good for children and the world, and then there's these people who really don't. People who are in some way, shape or form evil, or are doing something that goes against their needs for children. What I've come to realize is that it's very seldom so easy. It tends to be that everyone wants to keep children safe.
but there's often different incentives that pull against each other and even among the companies who might not think about it there's a loving parent sitting at the head of it.
Kay Vasey (07:02)
What do you feel though are some of the biggest harms that parents should be aware of today when it comes to their children's increased exposure as they get older and are growing up online?
Nichlas Hellmark (07:14)
Yes, we pose this question to ourselves as well and we ask children, what do you think that we should be focusing on? What are the things that are the most daunting to you that we need to focus on? what came up was adults often focus on either the content that they're consuming, such as violent or overly sexualized games or media, or the amount of screen time, but children themselves are most of time pointing out that it's extremely harsh and hostile behavior they're exposed to by the players that's most impactful. We have a bit of a story. We go into the school system in Finland and Sweden and we have an excellent woman who comes in and she talks to the children first and sort of tries and talks to them about, well what does your online life look like? What do you want? What do you see the need to improve upon etc. And then she has a conversation with the parents and to this day after working for several years, they've never brought up the same things. Children always want to talk about things such as, how do we handle the conversation with our parents when it comes to age limits and screen time and such. But what they're not receiving any help with is sort of like, OK, I've been exposed to some kind of harm online. What do I do? And the vast majority of them wouldn't even go to talk to their parents. And then the parents are always there talking about,
How do I get my kid to play less or spend less time on TikTok or whatever it could be?
Kay Vasey (08:28)
Yeah, absolutely. I think there's always that kind of disconnect, isn't it? And that's what part of this, you know, these conversations that we're trying to have with experts like you is how do you power that parent-child conversation? How do you, from a parent's perspective, even start to begin that conversation and what to expect? And therefore also, from the very salient point that you make, please expect the unexpected in the sense that your child may be thinking completely the opposite to you.
and try not to overreact if they say something that's kind of at odds with the direction that you thought the conversation were going to go in and keep it as free and open as possible, So in relation to just the gaming work that you do, can you walk us through what does that look like? What's a typical day in your role and what does kind of protecting children look like on the ground from the gaming perspective?
Nichlas Hellmark (09:17)
My typical day can be a system of engaging with psychologists, caseworkers and the people who work with children all day to sort of understand what do children need and what methods are out there to support them. And we don't work together with legislators, other sort of society organizations out there and most importantly companies that have child-facing products to try and ensure that they're doing their job in keeping children safe and that there are adequate supports in place for children who show that they have needs. So one day I might be out meeting with the EU to talk to them about some upcoming piece of legislation that affects children and the other I might be sitting with some of the AI engineers for a large tech company to sort of guide them in what patterns of behavior to look for to detect self harm or to detect grooming behaviors targeted toward children.
Kay Vasey (10:01)
Cool, and are you working with game developers projects?
Nichlas Hellmark (10:06)
Yeah, a couple of them. It's everything from trying to sort of understand, well, how do we best come to terms with what are reasonable monetization techniques? What are reasonable ways to provide pop-ups to sort of remind people of good behavior? At what point and how is it reasonable to involve parents because children have rights that are independent of parents that increase as the child increases in age?
And it's a bit of a balance that we're trying to help them with.
Overall there's sort of this shift in society when it comes to what role do we want tech and social media to have in our society. And there's a big overall conversation about, what are the rules? Who should be in charge? Do we need to legislate about this? Or can we sort of try and use the carrot and stick to get companies to engage in what's best for consumers?
Sometimes we end up in that conversation about what is reasonable legislation to sort of set the parameters here. But sometimes we're able to work proactively and talk to companies ahead of time and try and work out, what do we think makes sense here? Or we can provide our expertise, but it also sort of solves one of the issues, which is that even if, let's pretend Google is changing their YouTube algorithm to provide less hostile material targeting children.
They can make the best algorithm in the world and just because society doesn't necessarily trust them, I don't think it would be well received. Sometimes we can step in and sort of bridge that barrier by providing our stamp of approval because we truly need work towards nothing but a betterment of children.
Kay Vasey (11:33)
Awesome, I love it. Thank you so much for the work that you do, it's so important. And what impact are you most proud of from your work so far and how do you measure that success?
Nichlas Hellmark (11:43)
What I'm the most proud of is unfortunately still under NDA, but by the time this podcast is out, the story might just be out there. I'd say something I'm very proud of though is how we as Save the Children as a movement have embraced our times and truly considered keeping children safe in the digital world as important a facet of child protection as keeping them safe from physical harms. We're 103 years old as an organization and if we want to be relevant in keeping children safe then we need to change with the times.
Kay Vasey (12:09)
And then from that 103 years of history to looking ahead, what initiatives are you most passionate about in terms of what's coming up, perhaps in the next one or two years? And how do you hope that those are going to change the landscape for kids online?
Nichlas Hellmark (12:24)
One of the projects is AI-driven support for children online. The basic premise is we know a lot about how children behave in the real world when they're suffering from harm or not being in a great place mentally
And we know the science to look for. We believe that we're able to translate quite a few of those into digital behaviors. And if we can do so, we can also start essentially developing screening procedures that will pick up on these behaviors. And once certain thresholds are met, that indicates that you're truly someone in need of support. We can also reach out to them and offer support entirely voluntary to them.
And one of the benefits of such a system is that quite often when you look at sort of the mental health space out there, by the time that you're willing to seek support, it's gone quite far, especially when we're talking about boys and men. We are unfortunately far less likely to reach out to someone when we truly need it. There's... I would say though, there's something to stoicism. There's something to the idea of being self-reliant and wanting to work through your problems on your own.
but among men and boys particularly, we see the signs far too late. And in a system such as this, in which you're looking for behaviors that are attached to poor mental health and reacting upon them, we're able to pinpoint when you need support far earlier than you would be willing to reach out. So if you take the school environment in Sweden has a pretty robust social welfare system, and we have a psychologist or a counselor in every single school out there.
And we know from such systems that you often need to ask a child multiple times, how are you doing? Do you need anything? Are you doing all right? Before they're willing to sort of engage with any help, it tends to be about three times. And by the time that a boy or a man has asked three times, it's going to be pretty darn late.
Kay Vasey (14:02)
So interesting. Is there one key area that sticks out in your mind that we need to focus on to keep kids safe or is it a multitude?
Nichlas Hellmark (14:09)
I'm going to bring up one threat and one opportunity here and they're both related to AI. What AI is truly doing is, or technology at large, this has always worked as leverage. It allows less people to do more. It allows those who want to do well to do more and it allows those who want harm upon children to do more. I'm truly worried about the extent to which AI is being incorporated to fraud. Children for various reasons to essentially trick them into thinking that they're talking to a real person. And the harms that they're trying to impose upon children can be very different. It's everything from grooming to essentially trying to extort them from money to just getting access to their digital currencies or means, which also has value in this day and age. But on the more positive side, the fact that technology works as a leverage to allow less people to do more.
It can also solve one of the sort of underlying issues when it comes to children and their access to mental health support. Going back to Sweden where I operate from, we have a pretty extensive child welfare system and if you're a child that is in need of mental health support to some extent, you call out the child psychiatric services and you get put in a queue. And these queues can be years and years on end. The needs are massive, and our resources to solve the issue has limits. So we need to figure out new systems that can enable us to do more with less. And the digital world has sort of solved this issue in a lot of other spaces. I think it has potential to solve it here as well.
Kay Vasey (15:35)
Such an important reminder. I think children can be very trusting, not only in real life, but also online. And so, you my own son was almost scammed by someone who was just complimenting on him on his gameplay. And they said, well, if you let me log in to your account, then I can give you loads of the currency of this, in-game currency. And so of course he was like, no problem. Just thinking, yeah, sure. This person, of course, someone who's just, with for hours and it's so nice to me. So yes, it's certainly out there. And so again, making sure that you have those all important conversations with your child, can help across the board in thinking, just make sure, it's fine to play with people, but please think, always think twice before you're actually releasing any personal information. Does this person need to know your real name? Do they need to know where you live? Do they need to know your password, if you're ever thinking about giving that kind of stuff out, maybe just come and check with me first. And I'm not going to overreact. I'm not going to judge you. I'm just going to probably remind you that it's maybe not a good idea because you've never actually looked this person in the eye in real life. So can you really trust them? But on the flip side, totally agree with you as well. Such an amazing opportunity to have trusted spaces where then kids can go and be fine out and get access to information that they may not otherwise be able to easily find in the real world as exactly as you say with their mental health support any other types of support any information that they may find it difficult to access can actually be delivered to them online so let's not lock them out let's make sure they're included and let's make sure we build inclusive spaces for them.
Nichlas Hellmark (17:17)
I want to pick on two things you said. One of them is the fact that well you want to keep yourself anonymous to some extent online and there's power to it. You can explore freely when you're anonymous, you can sort of reinvent yourself, you can start over if you want to. But at the same time this goes at odds with how many of the systems are developed today. To a greater and greater extent you have one true identity. You often tie your your Gmail or something like that to every account you have.
And at the same time children don't feel this disconnect between the online and offline world Why would they want to try and be someone else online or be anonymous online? And how does that foster those relationship buildings that you described earlier such as bringing one of your best online friends to a wedding? But it's also The story you brought up about how your child had been potentially scammed back in my days in the ancient days it feels like at this point
scams were prevalent and I think there's essentially a series of things that every single person is going to go through, seems there lessons learned online that they're going to go through. One of them is that someone is offering you something in value and it seems like there's no no hooks attached to it or anything but all of a sudden they pull the rug and you've been scammed. Back in my days if you did this it meant that you lost access to some virtual currency, alright you got to go play another hour.
But today the stakes have somehow risen too high. At its worst we have things such as financial sextortion, where a simple slip or mistake can truly harm you as a person. thus we can't really rely upon the old-fashioned approach of let them run free and try their luck and they're going to get bit a few times. We need to figure out ways to teach children these lessons without them suffering through that harm.
Kay Vasey (18:53)
Yes, absolutely. Times have changed and we need to keep up with those changing times. And if I could pass you a magic wand for you to solve one issue in online safety right now, what do you think that that would be?
Nichlas Hellmark (19:07)
I think the most important one to solve would be the privacy versus protection issue. It's so painfully clear to me that we all want to protect children, but not at the cost of our liberties. And if we could find a better way to build those protection systems without, for example, breaking encryption or requiring everyone to do privacy invasive age assurances, that'll enable many of the systems that could truly help children without adding any cost or hindrance to normal online behavior.
Kay Vasey (19:33)
I couldn't agree more and I think that's really why we're coming from at k-ID in terms of privacy preserving age-appropriate online experiences,
Nichlas Hellmark (19:40)
Well so far, historically, there's been very little opportunity when it comes to age assurance for children. You essentially click in a box saying hey, I'm above 13, and they have to assume that all the users are above the age of 13.
There's a limit to the amount of safeguarding systems you can put in place. You can't really limit adult-children interaction to the extent that you would like.
Kay Vasey (19:57)
Absolutely. Can I ask you then why do you think partnerships like ours between Save the Children and k-ID crucial for addressing online safety challenges?
Nichlas Hellmark (20:05)
I think what's important to remember is, it's tough to be a parent today. Society is changing more rapidly and the demands on which you as a parent must know and understand to be able to set reasonable boundaries on behalf of your children is daunting. Even trained professionals have a hard time to keep up and most of the platforms or ways of interacting that we see today were barely in its infancy or didn't exist at all when we were growing up. So to some extent
As parents, we are the ones that have to set the boundaries on something we don't necessarily understand entirely. And I think we need to re-evaluate how we as a society come to terms with new technology and digital opportunities, where I think k-ID has one of the solutions that could be useful to parents.
Kay Vasey (20:41)
Yes, and what we're really trying to do is really activate the global compliance engine that we are offering to developers so that they can actually incorporate safety and privacy by design. there's been a lot of talk around raising awareness of this issue, but very little tooling. if we're able to actually get the tools into the right hands, which are the people that are creating these online experiences in the first place, and then bring the parent into the picture saying, actually, not every 13 year old the same. My 13 year old may be way more mature than yours. So even in a country where my 13 year old is allowed to, for example, have access to voice chat, perhaps they were already bullied online. Perhaps they're just simply not digitally mature enough to have that feature. And I, as the parent, would like to go in and turn that off across all of the games they're playing in one seamless maneuver until we have had that all important conversation to make sure that they are actually ready and then enabled to have that feature turned on.
And so is there something in particular that excites you about working with k-ID I know from my perspective, I cannot wait to be starting to remix some of your reports that are perhaps otherwise long form written reports into visually engaging infographics, perhaps some animations. But is there something in particular that you're really excited about?
Nichlas Hellmark (21:58)
I would start off by saying that even I have a hard time going through all the reports out there. I would love for a short version that essentially says these are the five takeaways that you need to consider when it comes to your child. And as a parent there's so much information out there that it's even hard to sort of understand, what should I be reading? And quite often they don't even align with each other. But what truly excites me is to sort of work on that parental facing and child facing–information about what does it mean to be a child today, what are the considerations when it comes to this, what is normal behavior. We ran an experiment again in schools in Sweden and Finland where we talked to children about, hey, what do we think are reasonable age limits when it comes to games? And we sat them all down and we sort of got the entire class to work together in figuring out age limits for various games out there. And unsurprisingly, they were often lower than what we as a society have so far, set them as. But it was also a lot more child-focused. It was a lot more realistic according to them. I think bringing in children's voices when it comes to what are reasonable expectations, so sort of create that joint understanding among children. These are truly rules by children and for children. Could be super helpful in guiding parents towards what's right for their child.
Kay Vasey (23:12)
I couldn't agree more. It's so important to have those children voices as part of the mix. They are the ones playing the games as much as parents would like to say, yes, I understand what they're playing. Do they really? Unless they've actually sat down and opened up the game themselves. So is there on that basis something that you think parents can actually start doing today to create a healthier balance between online and offline activities for their kids?
Nichlas Hellmark (23:37)
I think the most important facet here is to make certain that when you're trying to get them to do more things in the offline world, offer them similarly valued activities. When they're online, especially in this day and age with nearly constant online gameplay, quite often they're hanging out with their 10 best buddies and having an adventure. If the alternative is go do your homework, that's not going to happen. But if the alternative is, why don't we get you guys to play badminton or football or whatever it could be? That's far more likely. And one of the things we know that truly make a difference in a child's life is the amount of exclusively online friends versus exclusively offline friends. You want children to have a good balance. You want them to have those people to hang out with online. But if they only hang out with people online, that sort of negates the likelihood or reduces the likelihood that they can engage in offline activities with them, quite often because they're not even on the same continent, So… ensure that children have really high value activities to do offline as well as online.
Kay Vasey (24:32)
Yeah, I really agree with that. think I was watching a documentary that was produced in the UK and it just kind of reminded people to say, don't hate so much on your children wanting to spend time online if you also never provide a fun alternative.
But going back to the story that you shared right at the beginning, which was very sobering about the child who committed suicide, how can parents recognize that their child might be facing online harm and what should they do next?
Nichlas Hellmark (25:01)
So I'm echoing the words of one of my colleagues who's a trained psychologist who meets with children regularly. And unfortunately it's very difficult because children are unique individuals and they might behave differently. But there's a couple of overall symptoms that we can look for. It's changes such as starting to isolate oneself. Maybe they've had an extensive friendship online that they've been engaging with, and all of a sudden they're just sitting there not talking to anyone. It could be that they will stop playing a certain game because they've been exposed to harm within that game and are sort of withdrawing from it. You're more easy to anger tends to be one of them as well. And overall these are things that if I was describing a 13 year old who was entering a depressive state they'd fit right in there as well.
The truth of the matter is the online world is not that different from the offline world. And this is a lot easier if you have an ongoing conversation and relationship with your child when it comes to digital activities. If you're trying to just understand a problem as it's already occurred, you're not going to pick up on those changes in your child. So try and have everyday normal conversations before things go bad about, well, what did you do online today? Who you playing with? How that game go?
And it doesn't take a lot to get a child to open up to you. It's one of the great things about children, especially the very young ones. They want to engage you in whatever they're doing. So take them up on it.
Kay Vasey (26:19)
Absolutely. And just looking back in time though at your own childhood, if you could pretend that you were a tween or teen again and knowing what you know now about the online world, is there some kind of advice that you would give to your younger self?
Nichlas Hellmark (26:33)
I would say enjoy it in moderation. Really enjoy the journey. And to my parents I would say...
Consider what the game means to me. The game isn't just a pastime that I waste my time on, it's one of my major social networks out there, it's how I engage with the world. And the usual age-old issue about... This isn't as common today, it used to be more common back in my days, but essentially the problem of, okay, you're going to come down and have a sit-down dinner with your parents and you're in the middle of a raid or some kind of thing that you're doing online with your friends. If you leave you're basically wasting their time or effing them over. So one of things I keep saying to any parent out there is just ask your kid how long does a game take or a match take in the game that they're playing right now and if it's 25 minutes then 25 minutes ahead of dinner you tell them hey we're going to have dinner soon and it's up to the child to sort of self-regulate and determine whether or not to engage in another game or not and there'll be a lot more understanding.
Kay Vasey (27:31)
1000% that is exactly what I have done because I understand because I've been inside that game and I have talked to my kids about what it what does it mean to get the Victory Royale? What does it actually and what does it take and so and do you think that I could do it? And of course, I cannot do it for toffee, right? But it gave me by sitting there trying alongside them. It gave me a new understanding of how actually hard it is.
Don't be that scary and clueless parent in relation to what your kids are going through. And exactly as you said, there is a lot riding on these games and they're so highly collaborative and strategic, that if any one player just suddenly leaves at any one point, it makes a massive difference to the friends that are online. So please have a bit more empathy when your kid is going through that kind of process.
So if you had one message to parents raising kids in today's digital age, what would it be?
Nichlas Hellmark (28:26)
Spend more time with your children online while they still want you to.
Kay Vasey (28:29)
Perfect. What is a myth about online safety you'd like to bust
Nichlas Hellmark (28:32)
That trying to remove children from the digital world would solve our problems.
Kay Vasey (28:36)
And if you could sum up your vision for the future of online safety in just three words,
Nichlas Hellmark (28:41)
Safe digital childhood.
Kay Vasey (28:42)
Brilliant. Thank you so much Nichlas.
Nicholas
Thank you.