Ep. 38: For Parents: Big 6 Theory, COVID Developmental Effects on Kids by age, Hannah Rinehart, LPC

I'm a father of 4. This episode blew my mind. Listen as Hannah explains the Big 6, the COVID developmental effects on kids, her lemonade stand story, parenting tips & hacks, and much more. If you're a parent or know parents, don't miss this one. It's critical and I assure you'll glean several important nuggets.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Okay, we have a very interesting topic here. I've always loved this one because I knew something didn't make sense when we were in COVID. A very critical time in kids' lives, right, where they needed to be around people. They needed to socialize. They needed to be doing all these things out and about, and we pulled that away from them. So today's episode, I have licensed professional counselor, Hannah Reinhart. Thank you for being here. First off, thank you so much. We're going to have an awesome episode and you focus, your practice focuses on children, adolescents, children,

SPEAKER_01 1:01

adolescents, families, and women.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Okay. Awesome. So I want to get, I want to get right into it. How did COVID impact developmental needs for kids?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

So the CDC would say that there's like an increase in 25% with anxiety, depression worldwide. But I would say what I saw in my office was 100%. And what I saw even professionally, like personally, professionally, like, I mean, I don't know any friends that weren't impacted with COVID. You know, there was no one walking around that was like, I'm super chill about this

SPEAKER_00 1:35

and it

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doesn't bother me at all, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Right. So I feel

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like even that statistic is really underrepresented.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

And that's from what? That's CDC. Yeah, that's

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like CDC. That's just like common statistics is COVID increased anxiety worldwide 25%. And so I think we're walking around this misnomer, too, that maybe it wasn't as big of a deal as it actually was. And I was always surprised when I was meeting with people and talking to people that the people I thought would be maybe– incredibly anxious, weren't as anxious. And the people I thought that would respond and adapt to COVID well did not. So it's almost like it unarmed us so much that we did the opposite of what maybe our natural instinct would

SPEAKER_00 2:19

be. The opposite. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

And so I think it's something that you really have to kind of wrestle with. How did you respond? Are you okay with that? And then how do you walk past this and get back to maybe who you were before COVID or like a new normal.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

So this is, we're not, we don't even know the ultimate outcome yet. It's still to be determined. So, all right, then let's, let's take a child. Think of any case in your mind. We don't need to know the name. Somebody who came in sort of unpack for us, tell us a story of how a child just got I don't know, the short end of the stick, or I'm not even sure how to say it, but they came to you and really got affected negatively by COVID. Well, I think

SPEAKER_01 3:09

there's so many things because COVID disrupted our routines. It isolated people. It limited early childhood interactions. Preschools closed, and those stayed closed way longer than... traditional schools did caregivers were wearing masks. So children didn't learn like even responsiveness or emotions, like emotion regulation, watching adult caregivers, you know, like, so like when you're a young two year old, you're watching your caregiver and you're seeing how they interpret emotions and stuff. And they could not see that. Um, And so I think there's just so many things that maybe our kids missed young that they're still kind of catching up on.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Can they ever catch up?

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Is that a thing?

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yeah, I think they definitely can. I mean, there's things that as parents we can do and can purposely do

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that

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would really help increase emotional regulation and resilience

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in our kids. And we're going to get into that stuff. If you just had to take a wild guess, we don't need data, stats or anything. Who... who was more negatively affected adults or kids?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

I don't know. I was thinking, um, Like as we were talking about this, about a lemonade stand that our family did in the middle of COVID. So like July. So, I mean, not right when everything started, but kind of well in to things. And this was an outdoor thing. You know, we had some of our neighbors. We were raising money for an adoption that we were doing. Okay. And I look around and my daughter is putting papers on the ground six feet apart in our driveway, taping them. down to the ground and she's writing, stand here, stand here, stand here. At that time she was eight. And I just was kind of, my mind was blown that a, she had noticed, you know, like everywhere we went, it was like, you're allowed to stand here. You're not allowed to stand here. You're allowed to stand here. You're not allowed to stand here. And she had interpreted that, you know, process that and was putting that to like, those instructions out for all of our neighbors and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Oh my goodness. And that

SPEAKER_01 5:19

was just something she'd observed. You know, like that wasn't something I said, Hey, I need you to go put six foot markers in our driveway so that when someone comes to order a cup of lemonade, they don't stand too close to each

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other. So I

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think there's just so many things that like these little kids were taught adult things, even just by observation that they weren't really ready to,

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Yeah, right. I'm intrigued by the facial thing that you said. My mind never even went there. So if a child's being told by a caregiver, whatever, command or whatever. No, don't do

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that. Don't touch that.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

But they can't really see because the mask is on. So what happens there? They don't know how to react?

SPEAKER_01 6:02

It's caused learning delays, like speech issues in a lot of kids because you can't see how things are supposed to be enunciated. It's caused emotional delays. It's difficult for some kids to interpret emotions. I mean, there's research to show that by five years old, a kid can accurately interpret a parent's emotions. just by like the way they respond. So like if a parent is deeply angry

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and

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they're telling their kid, no, I'm not, no, I'm not. The kid knows that they're deeply angry. So like if you take that and you combine that with a mask or something, like they're so confused, you know, like they might be being told one thing, but they're observing something else or their, their observation is kind of limited.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

That's incredible. Okay. this topic was so interesting to me personally, and now you've just taken it to a whole new level. So, so I mean, I was, I, my, I'm, my mind's blown. I never even thought of that. So facial, oh my goodness. All right. By five, they're supposed to be You said what they should have by five. Give me what you should have in sort of the next category. Maybe is it five to 10 or five to 12?

SPEAKER_01 7:26

So ages two to five are probably the most important for learning like socialization and stuff. Cause that's when a kid's learning to share. That's when they're learning to like interact with peers, take turns. They're understanding what's socially acceptable, what's not. So a bunch of our kids were taken out of those environments. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yeah. During

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that time.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Right. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Especially like if you were an only child and you only had your parents around or, you know, like think about like families that didn't have. Yeah. Other siblings or whatever, like they're impacted even more significantly than maybe a family that did have siblings. Yeah. The reduction in social skills is going to lead to more anxiety, low self-esteem, difficulty forming relationships.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Right.

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And so it's like we have to intentionally enter in that and engage in that and make sure our kids have those skills.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Right. And that's the stuff that you're saying that we can do. But this has to be intentional.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

So, um, there's a therapist that I love called his name is Adam Young, and he has spent his whole career researching what kids need to form secure attachments with adults. So he breaks it down into six categories and he calls it the big six. Okay. And he says that there are six things that every kid needs to have like optimal brain development to be securely attached and to grow into a functioning, healthy adult, which is what all of us want our children to be. Right. You know, So the first thing is attunement. And that's literally like tuning in. Like a parent is able to tune in and accurately assess what their child is feeling. But the key is that the parent isn't distracted by their own stuff.

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You

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know, their own emotions.

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Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Their own issues. Like how much are we like kind of listening to our kids, but then you're like, oh my gosh, I got to go pack the car, make sure we got everything for carpool, make sure I got the chairs in there for the game we've got to go to. You know, like there's always stuff that as adults we have to

SPEAKER_00 9:28

do. Or it's, what do you need?

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Right? Oh my gosh. Okay. So the

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first thing is being attuned.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Attuned. All right. Got

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it. Which is... Easier said than done, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:43

This is so helpful already. If we just like hit stop right now, if I could just walk upstairs and go, I just want to have, I want to practice this. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. So the first

SPEAKER_01 9:54

thing, the second thing is responsiveness. So like, how are you responding when your child is sad, mad, afraid? Are you dismissing it? Like, Hey, that's not a big deal. Wipe it off. Suck it up. You know?

UNKNOWN 10:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

It's going to be fine, which maybe it is. Or are you offering care, concern, comfort?

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Right. So it's

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like they may have stubbed their toe and they're crying, which may not be a big deal to you. But to them, it's a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

It's like probably their whole life.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Their whole life, their whole world. So can you get down on eye level? Say, I'm so sorry, buddy. Let me give you a hug. Okay. Do you need a Band-Aid? Are you okay? Move on. But that still offers care, concern, comfort. Responsiveness lets them know that you see them and you care about them as a person, human, you know,

SPEAKER_00 10:42

what are bad? Let's stay on responsiveness. What would be bad practices on that? Totally

SPEAKER_01 10:48

ignoring. You know, like, you're fine, no big deal. And then I think you can swing the other way and be, like, so responsive that you're, like, totally absorbed in your child's life and you don't have your own. You know, like, I think there's two ends of the spectrum. So I'm kind of talking about, like, a

SPEAKER_00 11:03

healthy

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middle ground. You know, not like your child not running your life, but also you're not totally ignoring them or shaming them for… Crying over something that you don't think is that big of

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a deal. Does minimalization come in here? Like, oh, it's no big deal. You just stubbed your toe. Totally

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dismissive. Minimize.

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What does that do to a kid if you're minimizing?

SPEAKER_01 11:26

What would it do to you if you were minimized?

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Right. Would it... Would it 10X it for a kid because their brain's smaller? Right. It would destroy me. Right. It may not look it because I'll put on a mask of the world that I'm not destroyed, but it would destroy

SPEAKER_01 11:42

me. But it would still hurt. Yeah. Absolutely. And so I think it does the same thing to our kids.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Right. And they're forming. I'm formed already, unfortunately. I mean, I know you can change, but for sake of the kid, they're still like.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Right. So that's where they're learning. Forming it. Are my needs important or are they not? Do I matter or do I not?

SPEAKER_00 12:04

And that would send a

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message. Whether it's something you're clearly stating or not, it's still sending them a message and it's still communicating like your needs matter or they don't matter. Your wishes, your wants, your desires, your emotions, you know, those things matter or they don't matter.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Okay. So that's okay. That's incredible. So we have a two minute, we have responsiveness.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

The next one is engagement. So are you able to have a genuine desire to understand your child's heart and pursue them?

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Okay. And so

SPEAKER_01 12:34

that's like talking to them, you know, looking them in the eye. Um, if they hate soccer and you're like, you're going to play soccer no matter what, you know, like, are you listening to them? Are you not saying they have to make every decision, but they still, Still good to say, still good to vote. It is their, you know,

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it's their

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life.

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And then what, and then is it, I'll always also want to understand the flip side. So then what's bad engagement in this case would be like,

SPEAKER_01 13:01

I mean, then I think you can be too engaged. I know better. I'm bad. You can either be like dictator and like, you're going to do what I say, no matter what I'm the parent.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Which sometimes you, you need to make the, you know, you need to be the parent, make the decision. And then there's the other side of like too engaged and like, you having no life, you know? So again, I think it's this like middle balance of, um, there's another statistic that talks about as parents, we only have to get it right. 50% of the time.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Oh, that's incredible. I just felt better. That immediately made seriously.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Really? So like 50% of the time is still a positive interaction with your kid. So I'm not thinking you're going to be perfect and everything's going to be amazing and, you know, like you're never going to have a bad day. You're never going to be tired. You know, whatever. I'm a mom, too. I have four kids. So I understand what it's like to be overwhelmed, stressed out, late for carpool, all things. Right. But you want to get it right about 50% of the time.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Okay. That is

SPEAKER_01 14:01

so cool. And so that's focusing on loving and supporting. Like those are the two things.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Okay. Key

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things that we want to love and support.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Love and support. Love and support. Love and... Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. 50%

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of the time. 50%

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of the time.

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Recognizing that there'll be bad days. They'll have bad days. You'll have bad days. Yeah. You'll screw things up. You know?

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Absolutely. That

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will happen.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Absolutely. So 50% of the time to get an outcome of like...

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Feeling securely attached. Feeling like an adult really cares about me.

UNKNOWN 14:30

Oh.

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And ironically, your kid only needs one adult to securely attach to them to be able to securely attach to others. One.

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Really? And does it matter if it's mom? It

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doesn't matter if it's mom or dad.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Really? Oh my gosh. This is so cool. Okay. Then what happens? Yeah, no, that's okay. So I have a thousand questions and I'm trying to make it into one. So what happens with the absolute just... the parents that are just so far off. They have no hope. They don't even want to hear this message. It's just a horrific... It's like DFAX hasn't been called yet, but if they were called somehow, it's just so terrible at home. Is that child 100% just no chance, or do they still have a chance to become...

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A securely attached adult?

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Well, I think that they still have a chance. And my prayer would be that maybe a teacher is attaching or a coach or, you know, someone else. Like there's some other adult that's like present in their life.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Right. Because the child doesn't know this. They don't know. I need to find one person. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Okay. But I think that's why it's so helpful for us to keep our eyes open, you know, for maybe a kid that's hurting or like isn't as... paid attention to or, you know, whatever. Um, cause it is important for every person to feel valued and cared for. Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Okay. So yeah, we're, we're episode 43 today and I would say at least a handful that I can, that come to mind of people that I've interviewed have had this significant pivotal point in their life that was brought on by a mentor who engaged. Ah, so here's the clinical side of the Stacy Miller's of the world. All these people that are saying, yeah, this guy came into my life, embraced me and wouldn't let me go.

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And that's what changed.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Oh my goodness. Okay, cool. So we have, Attunement. We have responsiveness. We have engagement. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Then we have ability to help them regulate during moments of distress, fear, or anxiety.

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Have them regulate. Okay.

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So that's teaching them how to handle when something bad happens.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Okay. So in my

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world, it's called co-regulation. So if you are a regulated adult, then you can help your child to be regulated. So say they're freaking out and having a full-on meltdown. If you have a meltdown too... What is that going to do?

SPEAKER_00 17:13

So the dentist, that's what reminds me of the dentist, right? If I go in and I'm freaking out. And you're all

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stressed and you're all anxious,

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they're

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going to be all anxious. But if you're calm and you go in and you're like, hey, buddy, I know this is not super fun for anybody, but I'm going to be here. I'm going to hold your hand

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and it's going

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to be okay. So you stay calm and regulated. That teaches them how to be calm

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and regulated. Same thing with at home situations at home.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah. And they're watching, you know, like they're watching. How are we responding?

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

And how are we coping? And are we trying to escape or are we trying to be present? You know, like how are we handling these moments of distress? Cause we all have them like you're in traffic. Are you screaming and cursing or are you calm? You can be frustrated, you know, but like, sure. How are you handling it?

SPEAKER_00 17:59

What do you do when you do fly off? What's the best way to come back for whether it's seeking forgiveness or apologizing? What's the right thing to do there?

SPEAKER_01 18:10

One of the things is willingness to repair. That's another category.

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Of the six?

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yes, of the six.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Oh, okay. What was this one one more time? I have ability to have them regulate.

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To regulate during moments of distress, fear, or anxiety.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Okay. Moments of, okay. Fear or anxiety.

UNKNOWN 18:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

This is so good. Okay, so we've got attunement. We've got responsiveness. We've got engagement. We've got ability to have them regulate during moments of stress, fear, or anxiety. Okay, four or five.

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Five is strong enough to handle their big emotions.

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So are you

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able to handle them being sad, angry, experiencing negative emotions without shutting them down or telling them that those emotions are bad or wrong? And so often as parents, I think we do that. We're just like, stop yelling or stop, you know, you're embarrassing me, right? Like, don't act this way in public. You're

SPEAKER_00 19:01

embarrassing me. Right.

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Which I get, you know, like no one wants to have a kid that they have to carry out of target because they're, you know, screaming, but it happens.

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It happens.

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You know?

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Right.

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And so like, how are you going to handle that as a parent and how are you going to help them handle that?

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And how do, how do you, let's use that scenario. That's a great one. What's the right way to handle them? Cause I, wow. So I,

SPEAKER_01 19:23

I too have carried children out of stores screaming, you know, like sometimes they can't pull it together.

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Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

I get that. That's okay. Maybe there's a lot of noise in there. The lights are weird. Big store. It's overwhelming. Whatever. They can't have what they want. You're not going to buy them the$200 toy. On a Thursday

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afternoon. On a Thursday for no

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reason. I get it. But in that scenario, I would take them to the car, and then I would try to help them calm down. So whether that's getting a cup of ice-cold water, like sensory, like helps calm down your senses.

UNKNOWN 19:57

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Listening to calming music, maybe doing some deep breathing with them or like a game of I spy, which is grounding,

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you

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know, helps them be back in the moment. But I think the important thing here is so often we want to discipline our children when that happens. And I'm all for discipline. But when they're in those moments, they are not thinking clearly.

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So

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their brain goes what we call offline. So this is your prefrontal cortex. When you lose all ability to regulate, your brain flips a lid and you have no ability to think.

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So that's a literal term?

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Literal think.

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You flip a lid? You

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flip a lid. Really? So you're losing all your ability to regulate yourself.

UNKNOWN 20:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

So what we want to do is help them kind of bring that down. So when you do the calming, the breathing, all those things, then they're able to engage this prefrontal cortex, which is then when you can discipline. Hey, buddy, we can't do that. We cannot act that way. We cannot behave that way. We need to discuss what we're going to do differently, give a consequence if you need to, whatever you need to do.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

But

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disciplining them, which is so often what we want to do, when they have totally flipped their lid, is like the least helpful thing we can do.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Really? So it's delayed. You delay until the lid goes back on, so to

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speak. Until they're calm and you're calm, you know, because so often like we're upset, we're humiliated and embarrassed.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

They're upset. Right. And so we're just disciplining out of anger, frustration, embarrassment, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Wow. And it

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doesn't work well for anybody.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

No, never. Oh, my goodness. That's awesome. Okay, great.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Well, let's say you do.

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Yeah.

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Then the last thing is willingness to repair.

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Okay, there we go.

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And so that's when you fail, not if, but when are you able and willing to repair this? Are you willing to ask for an apology? Are you willing to do something that repairs and creates that secure attachment?

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Okay, and what does that do with a kid? I can guess, but I don't even want to guess anymore after hearing you announce because my guess is... Wow, okay. So that's

SPEAKER_01 22:13

going to help them learn how to do that as an adult. That's going to help them learn how to do that with you as a parent, with their siblings, with their classmates, and then as an adult. So we all mess up. We all make mistakes, and we all need to be willing to own our mistakes.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah, yeah, okay. So I would think that also helps with like... not having things open ended, which is

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right,

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which could be very challenging. Like there's no closure on anything. So like everything's just, I've got all these things out there that are, that need repair. They might even be resentment, whatever they are. It

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can turn into resentment.

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If you don't learn how to close that

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loop. Yep.

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Is that okay? Wow. All right.

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Because it becomes the elephant in the room. Then if you don't, It's all these untied

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ends.

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And then that just builds up and builds up and builds up and creates resentment. Between you and somebody else, with you and your kids. It doesn't go anywhere. Unless you close that loop, it doesn't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

And then I would think the kid would take those patterns through life and have that in relationships. Where you have all these relationships that crash and burn, but you never make them right.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Well, and they never learned how.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

They never learned how. Oh my. So important almost is a rule of thumb. Like don't go to sleep with an unopened. Is that sort of accurate?

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Don't let the sun go down on your wrath.

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There you go.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Right. Like it's advice as old as time. That's

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a good one. Okay. That's a game changer. So these are the These are the big six.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

This is called the big six. And Adam Young has a great podcast that talks about all these things and unpacks it even more. He has a new book that's coming out. Okay. These have been so helpful for me in my life personally with my kids, but also in counseling.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Yeah. Okay. Adam Young. Awesome. That's incredible. So then what happens to sort of bring closure to this? What happens if all this stuff is denied? Meaning like socialization and all these other things that we're talking about through COVID. Let's spend time on what happens and are you 100% in trouble if the parents don't intentionally try to fill those voids? Well, in

SPEAKER_01 24:41

my job, I have to hold hope a lot. So I think if I didn't have hope, I would have... burned out and quit a long time ago. So I don't think anyone's too far gone or... Too far without repair. And even in the counseling room, that's what we're doing, is building a healthy relationship, building give and take, someone that listens, someone that's attuning to you, someone that's responding. We're doing all of these things.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

And

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so even if that's the only space that it happens, it's going to be better than it not

SPEAKER_00 25:13

happening. Wow. What's happening when somebody had this done? They'll say to me, Just to make sure I understand what you're saying or to clarify what you're saying. It seems like it's intentional, but it's actually awesome. What is

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active listening?

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Huh?

SPEAKER_01 25:32

So you're listening and then you're stating back to someone to make sure that what you

SPEAKER_00 25:36

heard was

SPEAKER_01 25:37

correct. And then that gives the person a chance to clarify. Correct. Say, no, that's not what I said.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Really? I'd be wrong every time if I had to start doing that. The

SPEAKER_01 25:47

first thing we learned in grad school, active listening.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

No way. Which sounds so easy. I would be like, I don't need that class. I'm good. And meanwhile, it's probably the worst thing. The

SPEAKER_01 25:57

first skill is you feel blank because blank. And so you have to pick a feeling word and you have to pick why. And then the person says yes or no, or you're so far off. No, I don't feel anxiety. I feel... Is

SPEAKER_00 26:10

that from the feeling wheel? The famous

SPEAKER_01 26:13

feeling wheel?

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Wow. Is that important with kids to do? Is that something I could start doing with my kids?

SPEAKER_01 26:19

For sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

That's incredible. Okay. This is awesome. All right. Let's move on and get into the elephant in the room. Tablets, phones, switches, how they impact us, how technology in general impacts Zero to two. No screens. No screens.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

No screens.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

What do you do when their brothers and sisters are on screens and they want it? Phone. Phone. I mean, in my experience,

SPEAKER_01 27:07

a two-year-old's not going to sit down and really watch TV. Like, my kids haven't really paid much attention to, like, a show or whatever. I think a phone is way more enticing to them because they can hold it. Oh, yeah, it is. You know? Like, they can touch it. They can play with it. It's way more interactive than putting on a Bluey or something. Yeah.

UNKNOWN 27:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Honestly, I think if you're limiting screen time for all your kids and you're only watching one show a day or something, it's not going to be that big of a deal for a two-year-old to occasionally watch it. I think the bigger harm is the personal devices, the tablets, switches, phones.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Smaller handheld they can scroll through. Okay. Then as we move up through the ages to zero to two, none, what's sort of the next?

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah, two to five, you're not supposed to have more than an hour a day. And that's all screen time. So that's phone, TV, computer, video games, everything.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Wow. Or what? Like what are we

SPEAKER_01 28:07

looking at? I mean, so again, it's kind of the socialization stuff. Like tablets and things are so isolating. And that's the thing that I see constantly. more and more like the kids are not able to regulate their emotions because they're numbed out watching something. And then when you take that away, it's taken away like a drug, you know? And so their response is anger, frustration, being overwhelmed and they get emotionally flooded, which is when they're flipping their lid, their brain goes offline

SPEAKER_00 28:36

and

SPEAKER_01 28:37

then you've got a kid that's melting down.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Hmm. Very familiar. Okay. That's two to five. What, what, Let's go up. What's the next category and suggestion? Then it's

SPEAKER_01 28:47

like 6 to 12. And then it kind of varies because so much school is online now. And so that kind of skews the recommendations, actually. So if you find stuff kind of pre-COVID, it's still like one hour a day. But then now it's like six hours for 6 to 12 because so much of their computer time is online. And even in the classrooms, aren't they doing stuff on computers? In the classrooms or homework has to be online, digital days, all the things. So really what's being even instructed by school is against what the recommendation

SPEAKER_00 29:24

is. And this is– these numbers, these suggestions are for their– cognitive

SPEAKER_01 29:32

brain development,

SPEAKER_00 29:33

brain development. This is not like if you're violating these numbers, you're going to have like physical eye problems or is it mixed together?

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah, you can. So like there's, you know, addiction overuse, there's information overload. Like there's so much stuff out there. It's more than any of us can actually process.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

What's that? What's the second one that you said?

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Information overload. So like there's more available at our fingertips than our brain can actually process. Whether that's news, whether that's emails, like think about how many emails and texts and calls you get in a day. Plus you add in like the news is pinging this update, this update, like your brain can't keep up

SPEAKER_00 30:12

with

SPEAKER_01 30:12

all that.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

So you go into what, what happens, you know, in like flight mode or fight mode.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

I just totally flip your lid too. You know, we're all walking around like, what is happening?

SPEAKER_00 30:23

So we have flipped lids, all of us, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:27

All the time.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

And then you wonder why

SPEAKER_01 30:29

people are mad at each other. away

SPEAKER_00 30:31

and can't regulate our own emotions and flying off the handle. And wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Like there's just too much coming at us.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Yeah. Too much.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

But yes, there's eye issues that come like sleep disturbance from all the blue light stuff.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

So that's a real thing. It's a real thing. It's a real thing. Yeah. And what is that? Can you have it?

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Um, like, so having, yeah. So having computer phone time too close to bedtime will keep you from going into a deeper sleep. And keeps your body from producing melatonin, which helps you sleep. So then you sleep worse. Yeah, it's definitely a real thing.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

All right. So that's two to three hours before bed. None of the blue light to any of those. Certain screens that say that they limit blue light. Does that work? Yeah, they have

SPEAKER_01 31:16

blue light filters. I mean, you can try all this stuff. I think it probably depends mostly on the person. Can't hurt, right? Yeah, I don't think it hurts. And there's special glasses you can wear at night when you're watching TV that have like the red. Have you seen those, the red lens

SPEAKER_00 31:28

ones or whatever? No better way to isolate from your family members than to get a pair of glasses. Yeah, yes. So there's all the things. You know,

SPEAKER_01 31:37

there's all the things. It just depends on what you want to invest in and what you... How important TV

SPEAKER_00 31:43

is to you, I guess. It's so incredible. It is. It's wild. How much

SPEAKER_01 31:48

are you willing to pay

SPEAKER_00 31:50

for? Yeah. But so the point is, I guess, is like try it. You're better off using it than not using it. Probably. Because the reality of it is we're probably not going to adhere to these numbers. I mean, would you– like where are you– In those parameters? Do you try to be in those parameters? For

SPEAKER_01 32:12

screen time? Yeah. Yeah, we do. We do try to limit screen time. We try to watch like 30 minutes a day or less with my kids. Really? Unless it's like a Friday night movie or, you know, something that's more of a special, you know, special occasion. Yeah. But... I don't know. Have you read the book Habits of the Household?

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Yeah. Justin Hurley. I had him on in the beginning, episode 11, I think.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

He talks a lot about, you know, making habits that are family habits instead of the isolation. And I think this is a great place that that applies. You know, like, are you gathering together to watch a show or does each kid have a TV in their room? Oh, that's awesome. You know, like, are you gathering together for a family movie night and it's like a community building thing? Or are you each on a tablet watching something separate? You know, like, how are you... going about I'm not like you can't ever have technology but

SPEAKER_00 33:03

right is

SPEAKER_01 33:04

it something that isolates each person of the family even from each other or is it something that brings the whole family together

SPEAKER_00 33:10

yeah because I

SPEAKER_01 33:11

think it either is one or the other

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Right. You know? Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

There's not really a middle ground.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

How could there be? Right. So it's

SPEAKER_01 33:19

either everybody has a TV in their own room, everybody has their own tablet, everybody has their own switch, you know, and they're all just doing their own thing and there's like little to no regulation or it's something that like we have a computer and it's on the kitchen counter and that's where you're going to do your homework around everybody or you're going to sit and everybody watches the show and you have to vote on it or, you know, it's a family thing versus each individual.

UNKNOWN 33:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. That's a great family habits. That's an awesome concept to come up with all together.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

But it's like, if you do that, it's going to kind of regulate the screen time.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Just by that choice.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Yeah. So I think that's important. You know, it's like, what habits do you want to have in your household? And then. it kind of shakes down from there.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

It's shakes down from there. Okay, cool. So I think another good nugget that you mentioned is TV's not in the room, in the rooms. That's okay. So, so I'm encouraged. I have a little bit of encouragement in here now because we're like, that's one role. No budging. Nobody's getting a TV in their room. We don't have one. They won't have one. But in the other, I could see lots of room, uh, Yeah. Okay. Cool. So moving on anything, this, the six, so the big six, that's critical. And I would guess in your practice, that's a big

SPEAKER_01 34:48

cornerstone. Like if I have someone that has come in and then is an adult that has a lot of childhood hurt, that is something that we will kind of work through and figure out, you know, like where are their pain points from their childhood or their adulthood? Where's harm been done? How do we repair those things or grieve those things or, you know, whatever we need to do so that then they can move forward and try to create those things. big six in their adult relationships.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Okay. So this, now this is starting to sound like if you, the dog training, the dog analogy, it's more training the owner than the dog. I mean, is that what this is? So like

SPEAKER_01 35:34

helping parents learn what's important and

SPEAKER_00 35:36

what's not. So if a child comes in and presents with these things, is it a first natural thing? maneuver for you guys to go, well, what's going on at home or do you, or do you wait until a couple of sessions?

SPEAKER_01 35:52

No, I'm big about incorporating parents from the beginning and also just doing assessments of like,

SPEAKER_00 35:58

um,

SPEAKER_01 35:59

We love like the wheel of wellness. So it has all these different parts of social, emotional, educational, spiritual, you know, like we want all the pieces of the pie to be healthy. We don't want it to be like 90% mental health.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

And then everything else is, you know, small or whatever. Like we want to create a healthy whole person. And so that involves looking at. How much are you sleeping? How much technology are you using? How much caffeine are you drinking? Do you eat three meals a day? Do you exercise? You know, all these things play a factor and play a role into how we're functioning.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Yeah. Fascinating. Okay. Wheel of wellness. Did you call it? What is that? Tell me about that a little bit. I never even heard of it.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Yeah. So it's literally just a wheel and it has different, I think it's like eight different parts and different categories

SPEAKER_00 36:47

of somebody's life, like of their,

SPEAKER_01 36:49

of somebody's life. And so it's, um, like educational, spiritual home, I think like help, um, exercise, um, sleep you know all these friendships

SPEAKER_00 37:02

yeah

SPEAKER_01 37:03

you know all these different categories

SPEAKER_00 37:04

and these are things that you're looking at and assessing the patient so

SPEAKER_01 37:09

like i had this girl one time who was coming in for panic attacks like panic attacks all the time jittery like in session just jitter just shaking shaking already on medication she can't figure out why her anxiety is so high so we're looking at all the stuff i'm teaching her coping skills

SPEAKER_00 37:24

yeah

SPEAKER_01 37:25

And I keep asking her like about her diet, about exercise, about, you know, water, all these things. And, um, finally I was like, do you drink a lot of coffee? I'm like, I cannot figure out why this girl is like shaking in my office. And she goes, no, I hate coffee. I was like, okay, do you drink water? What is happening? And she goes, oh no, I hate water. She goes, I do drink a case of Mellow Yellow a day. And I was like,

SPEAKER_00 37:52

oh,

SPEAKER_01 37:53

there we go.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

No way. A case of mellow yellow. Well, if you

SPEAKER_01 37:58

stop that, you might be able to come off your Lexapro. Just

SPEAKER_00 38:01

saying. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

So it's things like that. You know, I view myself as a detective. You know, I'm trying to figure out what's going on. And if there's anything that's kind of off that needs to be tweaked.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Like what skills can I help teach? Yeah. Not saying I have all the answers, but there's things that like maybe are simple, you know, cutting out a case of Miller yellow.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

That's, that's remarkable. Did she do it? Did she cut it out?

SPEAKER_01 38:31

She did.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Thank you. And what was the result?

SPEAKER_01 38:35

She feels way better.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Imagine that substituted for water, right? That's really cool. So what percentage thinking, what percentage of people of kids actually, let's say I'm kids. What percentage that come to you on one or several medications? My understanding is like, it's usually a couple that work together. So what percentage do you look at and you're like, oh my gosh, this is so much easier to fix than medicine or like unpack that a little.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Yeah. So best practice is medication and counseling combined. That is not always followed. You know, sometimes someone will get medication and they'll never go to counseling,

SPEAKER_00 39:17

never do the counseling.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Um, so there's so many things that, like I said, go into a person, you know, that medication can't fix everything. And I've had people where like their vitamin B is really off and that's why they feel anxious or their vitamin D is really low and that's why they feel depressed. You know, like there's so many different things

SPEAKER_00 39:41

that are

SPEAKER_01 39:41

at play. So when I meet with someone, I ask them to go get a physical and get their blood work check and I have certain things that I ask for and I want to see those results because... I may be treating them for this thing and then they're really like their hormones are off and that's why they feel so exhausted. You know, like that's contributing to their depression. It may not be the whole of their depression, but if they're down in the whole physically and I'm up here trying to teach coping skills, those things... are going to feel so overwhelming to them. So exhausting and so discouraging because they're already exhausted. Yeah. Right. So we need to make sure that physically they're where they need to be so that then we can teach and address other things.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

So if you had one thing, you know, all of this, and again, we'll stay focused on the kid, the children part. If you had one thing you wish that can just go away, like can be wiped off of earth. Oh, Or a couple of them. One is too hard. Just one. I don't know. It seems more glaringly obvious now in talking to you of what's really happening with all this stuff. I just see numbers all over the place. 20% of kids this. 8% of parents this. Caffeine this. What's a thing?

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Well, and like, are you familiar with Jonathan Heights, The Anxious Generation?

SPEAKER_00 41:07

The Anxious Generation? Yeah, we were just talking about it yesterday, actually. Yeah, so

SPEAKER_01 41:10

that, I think, really sums up a lot of the technology issues. Yes. A lot of the, like, parents are overprotecting kids in the real world, but underprotecting them online. Yeah. So I don't know if I have one thing. I feel like I have a bunch of things. Okay, a couple. Yeah, let's talk about a couple. But, you know, I think... being engaged with your kids, you know, and like being engaged with them. What are they doing online? Who are their friends spending time with them? Like being intentional, you know, like back to that big six, like, are you pursuing their hearts? Are you trying to get to know them?

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Um, and that is hard, you know, and that is not always convenient. And we are parenting for who we want them to be as adults, not who we want them to just be today. Easy as a kid.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

That's a huge thing right there. So say that one more

SPEAKER_01 42:01

time. Parent as you... Shut up and sit down.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Because I'm your dad.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Because I'm your dad. And this is annoying. It's annoying that you're doing this. So don't do it. Instead of either explaining or teaching them something to do differently. We need to help them learn to make wise choices. It's not like they come... already knowing that you know like we have to teach them we have to parent them we have to actually engage with

SPEAKER_00 42:42

yeah parent is like a verb like it's active

SPEAKER_01 42:45

it's active it's not a passive thing

SPEAKER_00 42:48

that's really cool let's let's take one example i want to dig deeper into this parent the way you want them to be as an adult so let's take a situation and explain that a little deeper.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

So I'm thinking I want my kids to be able to do laundry. I want them to know how to drive a car. I want them to know how to study and make good grades. I want them to know what it's like to eat healthy. I want them to know what it's like to listen to someone and not talk over them. There's all these skills that if you look around, you're like, those are my favorite friends. Those are my favorite people to be around. Why? Those are probably the people that are caring. They're genuine. They look you in the eye. They listen to you. Those are the adults that you like. How do we teach our kids to have those skills. Cause those adults didn't just show up that way.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Wow. That's a game changer. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

I feel like so often we're taught just like discipline them, you know, like teach them don't get in the road. Yes. Like don't, you know, don't do these things, but like we need a little longer term perspective.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Yeah. What do you do with a kid? I won't give any, but any names, but he's in this house.

UNKNOWN 44:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

So we have the road out front that you came in and it's a community road. We're not on a two lane road or anything like that. Right. So we're inside a neighborhood and we just can't get him to understand when he crosses the road to stop and look both ways. And we try and it worked great with the kid, the two before him. Is it an age thing? Maybe. Why will he not? And yesterday was like, not a close call. But if he would have been crossing three more seconds later, it would have been a very close call. What, what do you do there? Like you can't stop them from going across the road, right? What options?

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Part of it could be development, you know, him not understanding.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

So he's four. He's, he's like a mature four. And we've had fours that were closer to threes. Yeah. But he's more mature in a lot of areas. But in this area, we just can't get him to understand. Do you know why? You've got to look both ways.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Like, why does he... Why does the road fascinate him?

SPEAKER_00 45:07

It's just when he's crossing to go to his friends. It's just he won't...

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Like, he's just too...

SPEAKER_00 45:11

He'll just run right across. He's so excited. Right across. Or coming back. He's so excited last night. Like, he was so excited to fly home because it was getting dark and he didn't look.

UNKNOWN 45:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

I don't know. Maybe he

SPEAKER_00 45:22

has to have a

SPEAKER_01 45:24

buddy with him. You can't cross by himself until he's trustworthy. That's a great idea. Until he can slow down enough to make that decision. But maybe make it a rule that he has to have his older brother with him or something. He can't go by himself. But I think trust is earned. And so I think you could explain that. You haven't been able to trust him to go across the road until he can prove that he's trustworthy.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Then he has to have accountability.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

What about shy? Like that's one of the biggest things I hear in the, just with kids. And I know some of them, they truly come out of the womb. Yeah. Just connecting with people and, and, and the opposite holds true. Right. The reverse holds true. So like what's going on there is that they really didn't come out shy. You don't come out shy. You learn shy. Yeah. Are you hearing things that are making you shy? Is it a real thing? Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 46:19

no, I think it's a real thing. I think people are more introverted or extroverted. Okay. We all have that kind of natural

SPEAKER_00 46:25

born that way. Yeah. I think God makes

SPEAKER_01 46:27

us, you know, introverted, extroverted, whatever. Like that's your personality. But then I do think you can parent and make children more one way or more another.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Um, like my oldest daughter, we, um, her first summer doing ballet, she was terrified. Um, Wouldn't dance in front of anyone. Stood in the corner, cried.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

What age?

SPEAKER_01 46:47

At three.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

At three. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

We're doing like this little summer recital and she won't dance. And so I had the choice then either say, okay, ballet is not for her. You know, we're just going to walk away from that, cut our losses. Or I could keep putting her in that, exposing her to that to prevent that from being an anxiety, to prevent that from being something that she deemed as bad or was afraid of.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

So. I signed her back up and made her keep doing

SPEAKER_00 47:16

it. Love it. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Because I can either avoid the anxiety and it grows bigger or you can lean into the anxiety and it grows smaller.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Oh my. So

SPEAKER_01 47:27

avoidance creates more anxiety. And you can Google like anxiety cycle and stuff, you know, but like avoiding anxiety makes it bigger. Okay. So I made her keep doing it and she did it for six and a half years and loved dancing on the stage and it became her thing, which is amazing. And not every story turns out that way, but, um, this is my kid who probably is more predisposed to anxiety. And so, you know, if she says she's afraid of elevators, then I'm going to purposely make her ride them, you know? We're not going to avoid that. We're going to lean into what it is that you're afraid of. As long as it's a safe thing. If you're afraid of snakes, okay, fine. We don't have to go

SPEAKER_00 48:06

hold

SPEAKER_01 48:07

snakes or whatever. But if it's a safe thing, we want to continually expose to that anxiety instead of pulling back. I think our natural inclination is to pull back and protect our kids from things that scare them. And that is not always the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Huh. Very helpful. Okay. What age is... Is it appropriate or when do they start learning about death? And I ask the question based on like, hey, don't jump off there because you'll die. Or they'll say like, why not? It's fun. Uh, because you'll die, but I've noticed we have two, four, six and eight. So throw the two out. It's not relevant. The four and six year old. It's absolutely irrelevant. Like saying, because you're going to die, that means nothing to them. Yeah. Is there an age where they do start understanding that? And you can use that in parenting to say like, Hey, don't hang upside down because if you fall nine feet on your head, you die. Yeah. They like laugh at that, you know?

SPEAKER_01 49:09

Yeah. I mean, I think probably it's, it's more of an abstract concept, you know, like heaven, hell, death, you know, life, like they can see people. So they're alive. They maybe haven't lost someone, you know, to know that like that person was there and they're not there anymore. So part of it might depend on life experiences because a two year old may understand death if their dad died, you know? So it might just be part of life.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

Yeah. Experience. What other things can you do in that case? Let's just assume that they don't understand. So I'll

SPEAKER_01 49:41

say like you'll get really, really hurt. Like.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

You might have to go to the hospital for a really long time. You could explain, like you could break an arm. You know, you can even show them pictures. Like you could fall and like hurt your neck, you know, hurt your neck and like. show them a picture of like a big neck brace or something, you know, like you could use like a visual, not to terrify them, but to like, this is what I'm talking about. Like if it's more of an abstract concept, it might be hard to explain, but sometimes pictures are helpful.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

Wow. That's, I mean, there's so many great nuggets in here, but that for me personally is awesome right there. Show them pictures. Cause then they perfectly relate. I don't want that.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Right. I don't want my neck to be in a race or whatever, you know, I don't want my arm to be in a cast.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Oh, that's so good. I can't wait to go and try. There's so many things in here. I'm going to try. I feel like I have your book ready to be written when you are ready to publish it. Just ask me for the notes. Cause I either take them on the laptop or, or this pad is full of from each episode. I take notes. Okay. Incredible. Incredible. All right. Um, So the last thing we're going to talk about is, is, is the connection of bullying and signs. I'm most interested in signs of when a child's might be bullied. It's not guaranteed that they're bullied if they're doing this or that. What does it look like? I'm sure. Do you work with?

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's definitely, and there's so many statistics for this of like kids that have been bullied and yeah. Like the National Center for Education says about 20% of students ages 12 through 18 report being bullied at school.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

20%? Yeah. Gosh.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

And then about 20% of students report being bullied online. And in my experience, that's been the bigger issue. I've definitely worked with kids that are bullied at school, but I feel like the internet and social media, Snapchat, all these platforms have created more online cyberbullying type things. Which is dangerous. Which is super dangerous.

UNKNOWN 51:53

Oh, man.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

But then even kind of underneath that, I feel like social media has created not necessarily bullying, but it's this feeling of kids being always left out. And that to me applies to like a bigger percent of the population than, you know, like the 20% that's being bullied. Like, yes, that's a definite thing. That's a problem. Yeah. But I would say every kid I talk to. has that feeling of being left out, being excluded, being not invited to this party, but all their friends were. And they see the pictures on the internet. And they see the picture. Everybody had fun. And so that's the bigger thing. How do we help our kids learn to navigate that? Because I don't think social media is going anywhere. I don't think Snapchat's going anywhere. It's part of culture. And so how do we help our kids navigate disappointment, navigate not always being included, navigate being left out? That's the bigger issue, I think. And that will apply to all kids. That's not just going to be. And

SPEAKER_00 52:48

how do you even attack that?

SPEAKER_01 52:51

Well, I mean, how do we handle it as adults? Cause we're not always invited places, right? Like,

SPEAKER_00 52:56

and

SPEAKER_01 52:56

maybe discussing with them, like, yeah, a bunch of my friends got together, but I wasn't included on that thing. And that, that hurt my feelings, but I'm still going to be friends with them. And, you know, like teaching modeling, like healthy disappointment, um, healthy relationships showing that you're not invincible. I think so often as parents, we feel like we have to be like perfect, have it all together. And, um, never show our kids our human side and I don't think that's right you know like they need to know that you have feelings you have emotions you're you feel left out and like this is how mom and dad handle it and so we want to help you we want to listen to you we want to attune to you practice that active listening and teach them how to handle those disappointments because they will happen it's not if they happen

SPEAKER_00 53:38

they will

SPEAKER_01 53:38

happen

SPEAKER_00 53:39

and then the other part is you hope that they're sharing it like that's a good thing that you're sharing it I love it keep sharing it

SPEAKER_01 53:45

yes I want to help you with this I want And

SPEAKER_00 53:47

don't beat it down. Embrace it.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

And don't shame like, oh my gosh, you wouldn't want to go to that party anyway. Or I wouldn't have let you go to that party anyway. Or whatever. How often do we dismiss these things instead of saying, that really sucks. I'm really sorry. And those are some of your good buddies. I'm really sorry they were not.

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Yeah, I'd minimize it. I'd say like... Oh, it was, it wasn't out in the woods or

SPEAKER_01 54:11

it wasn't as fun as you think it was or, you know, whatever. Like how many times do we totally minimize that instead of just hearing their heart and that like, yeah, they feel left out.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

That makes them sad.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

If you want to feel left out, have a wedding or if you want to, like when you get in that age where you start, why wasn't I invited to that wedding? Like planning a wedding. is impossible to include everybody or you have 7,000 people on your list.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

Same for a birthday party and you know, everything else like you're just, and so like they're going to experience those things. So how do you help them

SPEAKER_00 54:46

learn to navigate those things? That is so, so, so helpful. Okay. What else? So in the, in the bullying category, I have two other questions after this that I just thought of, but in the bullying category, does behavior change for a child?

SPEAKER_01 54:58

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

Like isolating, um, withdrawing, maybe depression shows up, but that's where you've got to be really protective online. You know, back to that, like we overprotect in the real world under protect online. So like, how do you make sure that you are involved in that, protecting them online, making sure they're not on things that they should Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

They should not be on social media right now. And then, of course, they're exhausted. Of course, they can't focus in class. You know, like it's this whole spiral.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

Yeah. Would we focus? No. Can we focus when we're up? But

SPEAKER_01 55:55

that's back to where, like, you do need to be a parent and you need to make those calls. So how do we protect them online? How do we help model healthy relationships?

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

In the real world?

SPEAKER_00 56:06

Yeah. How

SPEAKER_01 56:06

do we help them have relationships in the real

SPEAKER_00 56:08

world? Right.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

You know, it all kind of goes together.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

Yeah.

UNKNOWN 56:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

So what ages are common to see bullying? Does it start? Do you know?

SPEAKER_01 56:19

Like this says it starts around 12. And I would say that's probably too, like middle school, you know, like, and I've seen it happen younger, like upper elementary school. I think it depends on the school. I think it depends on, you know, just like the culture of the school. city you're in too like it's just it's different yeah for every place but I think around 12 is probably common

SPEAKER_00 56:39

okay so if it's happening younger it might be like something different

SPEAKER_01 56:44

I mean kids are mean you

SPEAKER_00 56:47

know yeah

SPEAKER_01 56:47

kids can be mean

SPEAKER_00 56:50

for sure you know I mean yeah

SPEAKER_01 56:52

And honestly, it kind of depends on your definition of bullying too. Like some parents are like hyper with that word. And, you know, somebody said a mean thing to my kid, they're being bullied. And then other people are like, never. never would call it bullying. And you're like, no, that's, that's probably in the bullying category. So it's,

SPEAKER_00 57:09

it's a spectrum. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:11

But I think around 12 is probably the most common, but I've seen it happen younger in elementary school for sure.

SPEAKER_00 57:16

Do I remember reading an article and I don't know if it's relevant. So I'm going to ask the expert and it said, if your kid all of a sudden doesn't like going to a place that they liked going.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

Can that be one of, but not the only thing that's happening?

SPEAKER_01 57:32

Yeah, that could be a thing, but it could also be a learning issue it could be a friendship shift and you know like they their best friends suddenly started hanging out with somebody else which wouldn't fall into the bullying category but it still would be a social you know issue so I mean there could be many things which I think is why it's so important to talk to your kids

SPEAKER_00 57:51

and get

SPEAKER_01 57:52

to know them

SPEAKER_00 57:54

start you just have to start like getting involved and then other doors will open but if you're not I just think, like, I don't know, when we were kids, nobody was talking about any of this stuff. It was like, get on the bus, go to school, don't ask why. It's because I said so. Come

SPEAKER_01 58:10

home and do what I say.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Right. And then it was, you don't have any emotions. Those are just, we don't have emotions. Right. If you want to get mad or da-da-da-da, like...

SPEAKER_01 58:20

You're allowed two emotions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Yeah. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

Right. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 58:26

All right. So we'll shut the door on bullying. It's just a, it's terrible. I hate even reading anything about it. Like it never mattered. I never cared about that word before having kids, but now kids, it's like, Oh, to think of that happening.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

Well, I think it's important to get to know your kids' friends, too. You know, like being engaged and intentional in life.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

And their parents, too. And the parents.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

Like, who are they spending time with? And, you know, not just trusting because they're at the same school or whatever that they're on the same page with you.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

Right. Okay. Great tip. I love that. So you hear the phrase. We're coming out of bullying now. So you hear the phrase, but times are just different now. Are they?

SPEAKER_01 59:12

Well, we referenced something from the Bible time. Like, like some things don't change. Human nature doesn't change. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And so I think people are people and hurt people tend to hurt people.

SPEAKER_00 59:29

Hurt people tend to hurt people. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 59:32

Okay. And you know, I think that's why it's so important to work on those steps to create secure attachments and so yes maybe things are different like we have social media now we didn't have that when we were kids like there are different factors yeah but some things that we had as kids went away and new things replaced it so i mean things are always changing okay i just don't know if it's like so much worse now than it was then or you know all these comparisons like i think we live in a broken world and yeah it was broken 30 years ago and it We'll be broken in another 30.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

In another 30. And that's not going to change. No. Okay. So I just think of like the scenario of I'm going to let my kids go far off. Maybe not even know where they're at. Pre-driving. Like I'm talking 6 to 12-ish. Somewhere in there. Like head out. I know for us. It was head out for the day. We didn't have to say where we're going. And be back for dinner. And we would go. places that I think back of, we were living on the edge. Someday it's truly living on the edge. It's like, wow. If my parents only knew, but I didn't know that back then. I just thought I'm being a kid. So today, like,

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

and you were learning risk and you were learning. Oh yeah. Risk management

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

and all these things and getting hurt and how in a, yeah, all of it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

Decisions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:53

All that stuff. So now I think of letting my kids grow. do that right so now I'm a dad I let my kids go and just like if I said be back for dinner when I say our times truly different now like we have to worry about different things today right

SPEAKER_01 1:01:12

I think you have

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

to worry. Kidnappings everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

Well, yeah. But then you also have to worry about the people that'll call DFAX on you if you let your kids do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

See? So it is. The differences are too big.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

That is different.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

They're game changers. If that happens.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:28

I think there was more a culture of neighbor and neighbors looking out for neighbors and stuff. And I don't know if that... That still exists.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

Now it's almost like, what can I find wrong? That's the neighbor mentality. It's like, what are they doing wrong?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

Where can I call the whatever?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

So that is different.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Yeah. So you

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

have to learn how you have to figure out how to teach your kids risk and things, but maybe not the same as when we were kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

That's a

SPEAKER_01 1:01:55

struggle. You know, like how do you let them learn autonomy and how to, make healthy decisions and practice healthy risk without you being there right there all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:07

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

But then you also don't want defects called, you know, cause you're not watching them.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

Right. And they're too young to be like out hanging up off a tree three miles from your house. Right. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. Um, best age to get a phone. Is there any studies on that? Any data? Is it hard and fast or is it every kid's different? I, I know I'm asking from the other side, how can I tell my kid that they can't get one until they're 18? But

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

yeah, a lot of, a lot of studies are saying like 16, at least for social media.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

Is it

SPEAKER_01 1:02:48

like when you learn to drive needing a phone?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

Um, We currently have a flip phone for our house that's a household phone that we can leave at home with our kids. Interesting. And it doesn't have social media or access to any of that stuff. So if I need to run a quick errand, I have a flip phone I can leave. I can call my kids if I need to. But it is purposely not a smartphone.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:15

Just curious, do you learn that from a book you read? Where did you learn it? That's so

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

awesome.

UNKNOWN 1:03:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

Well, I just don't want all the technology stuff. I'm not totally anti-technology, but I'm definitely not super pro all the technology stuff. Yeah. So, try to be more in the middle. But, you know, the flip phone, we had to ask for it and we had to pay more money for it, which is hilarious. No way. Like, an iPhone would have come with our plan. You've got to be kidding me. We had to pay extra for a flip phone. But my husband and I, we wanted to do that. So, that's what we did.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:51

Oh, God. Wow. That's incredible. Just to have a non. And there's no capabilities on it to go online.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:59

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

Nothing. It's just a phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

You can text and you can call.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

And you can call. That's an awesome tip though. I love that. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:05

So that was our way to kind of, you know, practice a little more autonomy. We could leave our kids home to run a quick errand or something. We have a middle schooler who can be in charge, you know, for a little bit. But we didn't want... to leave a phone that has access to everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:24

Right. Yeah. Yeah. It makes perfect sense. Okay. Uh, last question, unless you have anything at the end that you feel I've missed or big topics, but you're going to come on again. I'm letting you know nicely that you're going to be on for multiple episodes. You were right. You said the six questions that we had was like, that might even be too many. Now I see why. So each one of those can be its own episode. Oh, my goodness. All right. The last one's really hard. You didn't have it on your list. I didn't send it to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:00

I didn't send it to you. I just thought of it through this. And I'm approaching it. From the point, my background was all guns. And I was an extreme gun safety enthusiast because it was of my living.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

Right? My job. So I learned gun safety from the best of the best of the best gun safety. We're in different times now. So this isn't about do you support guns or not. I think everybody out there knows that. I am not asking your opinion on that. I want to know. First question is, I send my kids off to a home. Yeah. Do you hear in your practice, do parents even have it on their radar to know that they might know the people a little bit? But did anybody ask, like, do you have guns in your home? And that's not a yes or no. I'm not sending my kid there unless there's no guns. Are they locked up? Do you hear that?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

I mean, I think that would be a great question, especially if you suspect that that's a person that would have that. But I've not heard anybody, like, asking that.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:18

Okay. So let's use this right here. Let's use this segment to let everybody know to just ask the question. Because it is... I think that's a great question. Insane what's out there. The dad's off to work. For whatever reason, he believes a gun should be loaded on or in his nightstand. Right? Forgets. One day. It only takes one day out of 50 years. One day. That's it. There was a

SPEAKER_01 1:06:45

kid yesterday that found a gun in his dad's car and died. It was on the news yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:49

Oh. Here. Okay. Here?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

In Atlanta.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

So what happens, we watched a video. I get crazy, crazy goosebumps. We watched a four-year-old. They put guns in a room. and put, unloaded, obviously, guns in a room, cameras watching it to see how the kids engage with the weapons. They need to study this stuff, right? So what does the kid do with a gun? I wish I brought one here on the show. It's obvious. They pick it up, and the way that they hold it first is to press the trigger this way so the barrel is faced at

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

them.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

That's just what kids do. I'm talking four-year-olds. I watch you with four-year-old studies. Mm-hmm. That's how they engage. They don't point it because of the way and the way it holds. It's this way. So it takes one chance to run out the door and forget that your gun was loaded, which that's a different episode for a different day. Gun safety. I just think the point of this, and I was curious to hear if that's in the checklist. No. So let's use this to say like, if your kids, no matter who it is, um, Engage that question.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

I think that's a great question to

SPEAKER_00 1:08:01

ask. Ask the parents if they lock their guns up. Because you know what it might do? It might have the parents go, why do we have to lock up a gun? I'm not even joking. I'm serious.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

Yeah, I believe you.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:11

I believe you. Some people think that having it on a nightstand is the safety. That's not the safety. That's not how that was designed. And that's not going to keep you. That's false security, right? So as we talk about the kid thing, like, okay, it's the, it's the know the parents. Like we are so big on that just because again, where I came from, like, what is your protocol for the weapons in your home? I need to know that. And if I can help you with it, I would love to help you. This is not to judge you. to say, ooh, you're doing the wrong thing with your weapons, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:45

Well, and I'm big on asking about technology and, you know, all the other things. Like how many times do your kids walk into a house and maybe they have the TV playing all the time and, you know, something's just going to pop on that you don't necessarily want your three-year-old to see.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:57

You

SPEAKER_01 1:08:58

know, so everyone has different rules and you really do need to know where you're sending your kids and what their family culture

SPEAKER_00 1:09:05

is. Yeah. Cool. Wow.

UNKNOWN 1:09:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

So that was an hour. That was 90 minutes. I can't even believe it. I don't, I feel like I didn't even ask you anything cause I have 19,500 more questions, but guess what? That's I'm curious as a parent on all this stuff. So, um, hopefully you'll come on for more episodes. Thank you. Um, and is there, is there anything you feel that just like, burning desire. You want to say kind of, no, I

SPEAKER_01 1:09:39

think we covered a lot. We covered it all. All

SPEAKER_00 1:09:41

right.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:41

I think we're good for now.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:43

So thank you for your time. And thank you just like for your willingness, vulnerability, openness to talk through these things. This is so helpful, helpful for everybody. So grateful for it. Thanks.