MLK Protege, Bloody Sunday Survivor

My good friend Jack was at an event watching John Suttles share his story. Jack called me right after the event and said “Jeff you HAVE to get this guy on your podcast. His story was so amazing I walked up to him afterwards and got his number for you.”  Wow, Jack was right! And then some. Mr John Suttles shares his story of surviving Bloody Sunday, being a protege for MLK and whats most interesting and encouraging is the way he approaches life without the hate he deserves to carry, but refuses to. He learned how to read the hate from a very specific process taught to him by Martin Luther King. It completely blew me away and it’s gonna do the same for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Folks, welcome to episode 48. I'm calling this one a conversation that absolutely needs to happen. And I've got a good friend here, John Suttles. John, thank you so much for coming. How are you? It's good to be here. Thank you. And we've got so much that we're going to talk about. So John is a Bloody Sunday survivor. And if you're not familiar with Bloody Sunday, I encourage you to start off, just Google it. And there was a point in time where this was real. This was actually happening. And I know for me personally, it's so hard to get my brain wrapped around you trying to do good, walking over a bridge. And this is where I want you to pick up and finish that story, what was going on.

SPEAKER_00: 0:47

Well, like you say, it's hard to wrap your head around it. But it is an experience in my life that always up front. And that Sunday morning, I woke up with excitement about going to Montgomery. to talk to George Wallace, who was the governor at that time of Alabama. And, um, I had, um, 16 years old, I had my little gear on, which consists of a windbreaker, thinking I'm ready. Yeah, you're ready. And my uncle, he was living in a bungalow. He was living on the left. I was on the right with my mother. And he came out and said, and he called me, oh, boy, oh, boy, where are you going? I said, I'm going to Montgomery to talk to Wallace about this voting

SPEAKER_01: 1:48

thing.

SPEAKER_00: 1:49

He said, oh, yeah, you tell him I said hello. And so... It started in a conversation like that, and he said, well, you're going to need a bigger coat for that. Wow. And if you're going down Highway 80, you're free with that windbreaker. Okay, yeah, got it. So he reached in his closet and pulled out his Army jacket that he had fought in the North and South Korea War and told me to wear that. Wow. Man, did it feel good when I put it on. Yeah, yeah. And it had no blood on it from the Korean War. But at the end of the day, it had a lot of blood, my blood on it. And it's hanging in the interpretive center of the National Park down in Selma today. It's there right now? Right now. Oh, wow. And when I talk about it, Back it up a little bit. We started off that morning, John Lewis, Jose Williams, and myself, and all kinds of people, students. And we gathered in the church front yard there, and so we started off. And somebody had came and told, we had had a report to say, there's a lot of state troopers and sheriffs and policemen at the foot of the bridge. And John and Jose said, well, we're still going. And so we snaked our way through the city to the bridge from the church. And it was a... Crispy morning, so to speak. Kind of cold for Alabama, their standards. And we get to the top of the hill. Then we could see the troopers, and they're blue and gray, and the... the sheriff, Jim Clark, and these guys, they always dress kind of intimidating, if you know what I mean, with a lot of accent on their dress. Sure. And so we marched on. And mind you, now, we knew that chances are somebody is going to get hurt. We knew that. Yeah. But it didn't outweigh the purpose

SPEAKER_02: 4:28

of us. Because it was peaceful, right? Yes. What you were doing was peaceful. Yes. By every standard, peaceful.

SPEAKER_00: 4:33

All the time. Okay. Nonviolence was preached at all of the mask meetings. And in fact, if you couldn't rise above, couldn't do that self-cleansing and be nonviolent, you're not going to come in and wreck this movement. Yeah. That was our thing. Yeah. And when we got to the... Well... Going down to the foot of the bridge, the air just stopped moving. I don't know if you've ever been in a situation where things get so thick, the air. Yeah. And you knew that this time is sort of different. And we were singing and we were chatting, but... when we saw all of those troopers along with the sheriffs and the local police, we knew this was different. Hundreds of them. Oh yeah. Like hundred. Okay. And how many of you guys, it was, uh, the news report was 600, 600. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and so we kept marching and we get down to the, um, foot of the bridge and, um, One of the guys, I think it was McLeod, who was the leader of the troopers, he said, I'm ordering you guys to disperse. There'll be no march today. You turn around and go back to your church. And we said, well, let us pray first. And by the time we kneel down. They had a strategy for us. When we kneel down, they start throwing tear gas, and it surrounded us on the bridge. And no matter where you was located in the line of marching, you was just in a tear gas cloud-like. And it... Then they started beating us. If you tried to get up and run from the gas, they would beat you. The posse men, they was on horses. And they had nice sticks about, I call them bats.

SPEAKER_02: 7:02

Yeah,

SPEAKER_00: 7:04

sure. Batons or

SPEAKER_02: 7:04

whatever.

SPEAKER_00: 7:05

And they beat us. And I was very, very close to John Lewis, about from here to the corner of your studio there. 20 feet. Yeah.

UNKNOWN: 7:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 7:18

And, you know, I was down on the ground, John Lewis. You could hear young people screaming. You could hear old ladies screaming. You could hear people like myself screaming. And by the time I decided to get up and get some fresh air, it was... like too late because when I raised my head, a posse man hit me on the head and knocked me out. And the next thing I knew... It was one of those... Yeah, one of those sticks. He was riding a horse. He was just riding, coming by and just... And you can hear the thump of the stick that he had. All of them had a stick, and you can hear the thumps on the heads. And John Lewis suffered it more than anybody because he was the good trouble chief, so to speak. And they knew it, and so they singled him out and beat him. And just like they beat us, but once they knock you out... And when I came to, I was at the bottom of the bridge... And there was a hearse, not an ambulance. Ambulance. Yeah. And they threw me in the back of the hearse and took me over to Good Samaritan Hospital where I received treatment for stitches and intoxicated with tear gas.

UNKNOWN: 9:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 9:03

And so that's how that morning went. And my mother, she never knew about it. She would have held me back had she known that I was potentially going where I may not come back home.

SPEAKER_02: 9:21

Yeah, for sure. The second after you get hit, a couple seconds after that, does it cross your mind, I wish I didn't come here?

UNKNOWN: 9:32

No.

SPEAKER_02: 9:34

Okay. That's the power of this. What did cross your mind?

SPEAKER_00: 9:38

Am I going to die here? Really? At 16? At 16. I know, right? But that was the reality, like you said, back in those days. That's exactly what was going on. And they knew it, the enforcers, the sheriff, the police. posse's and and the highway patrolman's they knew what they was what to be expected they wanted to intimidate us that way and you know every day they had a new way of intimidation but we was at a point that you know bring it bring it on you know including death how many people died there None, thank God. None. None. Good. But John Lewis almost lost his life. As you know, he suffered from a terrible concussion.

SPEAKER_02: 10:40

Concussion, right? And that's John Lewis, the Georgia congressman, right? Yes. Just so everybody has a, yeah, just so everybody knows. Okay. Yes. And you were friends with him at the time? Yes. You guys were about the same age?

SPEAKER_00: 10:51

He was about four years. He was in school. He was like 19, 20. I would say at the

SPEAKER_02: 11:01

most. A

SPEAKER_00: 11:01

little bit older. And that was the attraction for all the young people because the older people was with Dr. King organization, SCLC. And the younger people was with Student Nonviolent Committee.

SPEAKER_01: 11:18

And

SPEAKER_00: 11:19

that's the one that John Lewis was heading up.

SPEAKER_02: 11:21

Yeah. Okay. In our pre-interview, you opened my eyes. So I'm learning as much today as I think a lot of other people out there. Because I really did not know the difference of some of these terms. So you said civil rights is not what a lot of people think it is.

SPEAKER_00: 11:41

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 11:42

So what is civil

SPEAKER_00: 11:45

rights? Well, it's all about... It's got so many antennas to it. You know, you have... It's about gay rights. It's about white rights. It's about black rights. It's about white lives matter. Black lives matter. It's all... It's about America. And, you know, we grow... from mistakes, and we try to be there when a big mistake happened. There's a lot of people that take upon themselves, this is just how America works, and it doesn't have anything to do with color. And they take it upon themselves, like myself, and there's something I can do. to help my fellow man. There's something that we all feel when our citizens are attacked, whether it's verbal or physical. I had this conversation with you before. And when that happened, people of all races, all colors, all, they come together. And it's a great thing that America is just, we're still growing. And I know that at some point, it's going to be all right. But you have to go through these growing pains. And some people will say, well, John, that's not growing pains to go through what we're going through. But yes, it is. If you... If you look at it and you think about it, being such a young country, we go through these growing pains, and then you have people with these big ideas. They come and want to make it another way. It's not going to ever. Right. It's going to be what we want it to be.

SPEAKER_02: 14:08

Yeah. Did we learn from it? Did we learn from this?

SPEAKER_00: 14:11

We did, but you know what we did? What? We sat down and got too comfortable. It's like, oh, John's going to be all right now.

SPEAKER_02: 14:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:21

Oh, Jeff's going to be good. Yeah. No. Chris is going to be all right because, you know, Chris went out and did all of that and everybody recognized that that was wrong and now we have a law to do that and da-da-da. Yeah. But you can't relax, right? Because we are such an open space and ideas, and we encourage intelligence here in America and ideas. And so when that happened, it bring in different attitudes, right? And people have a right to have an attitude about whatever they want to talk about. So says my grandmother way back in the day. But yeah, that's basically what civil rights is. It's all about what you want to... be remembered of and how you say hello to your neighbors, how you walk down the street and you see John or Chris come in and you decide to do some body language that everybody know when you go to the other side of the street, oh, you got some issues. Somebody got issues. And I bid you if you would just keep going. And handling your business.

SPEAKER_02: 15:49

Yeah. It's going to be all right. Incredible. You talk about self-purification. My mind, I don't say this a lot, but my mind is blown. And the posture you have towards it, the story's incredible. Tell me where that came from, this concept of self-purification. Because I would think I'm sitting here with somebody who has so much hate. And that's not the case.

SPEAKER_00: 16:16

Correct. That is not the case. I remember the night that Dr. King came back into Selma after we had got beaten up. And he invited me over to a home that was on the west side of Selma where he was staying. And we were sitting there talking. And I had this big old white bandage on my head. It was just humongous. He said... I told him about the story of my mother. I told him about my mother emotions. And she did not want me to even be at this mass meeting tonight. She did not want me participating in the movement anymore. Because I was... The baby of the family, right? So mother is very protective of all her children, especially the baby. And so he understood that. And then we got on to the nonviolent thing. Because I was telling him, my brother, when he saw me, he wanted to take all the bricks. And he would. He would take a brick and throw it in a crowd. Yeah. he wanted to go out and find somebody and hit him a white person and hit him with a brick. And I'm like, no, we can't do that. Cause I'm afraid for him now, you know, you go out, Hey, you know, and, and so we all, um, have to be, uh, each other's caretaker that way. Um, and, and Civil rights is no different. We have to be a caretaker for your rights. I often think if I see you surrounded in the neighborhood of, let's say, the black neighborhood and people have some ill feelings and they want to hurt you, I would have to step in because of who I am. And that's self-purification. That's what that do for you. You realize that I have some demons that Jeff don't have anything to do with while they're on my back. Chris don't have anything to do with why they're there let me that's what Dr. King and I was talking about let me go within myself and If I choose to let them stay on my back, I have to get away from certain people in certain spaces. Sure. And if I want to be part of this movement, I have to be able to be nonviolent. And that's what self-purification, it attracted me because I was young. But, you know, I was one of the kids that liked to read, and I would pick uh, people like John Lewis, I would, uh, pick their brains and, you know, these guys was, uh, being educated and, and, and another level, uh, than I was. And, and I was interested in knowing the philosophy and what they felt about this, that, and I got a earful and especially that night on the, um, the, uh, self purification. Sure. There's a formula for nonviolent. It is, um, It's facts, negotiation, self-purification, direct action, and dialogue. Direct action. You can't change anything. You can't do what you should do if you can't dialogue.

SPEAKER_02: 20:36

And this is what he taught? Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 20:39

A lot of people have forgotten about that. And this was part of his... Montgomery, I'm sorry, Birmingham jail letter. He talked about self-purification. He did? Yeah. And he was speaking directly to the clergymen. And they wanted him to accept some stuff they wouldn't accept. And he suggested that maybe they need a little self-purification. And so those bullet points, I try to share them with people. They work if you put them in motion.

SPEAKER_02: 21:29

Yeah, yeah. So... This is part of your message. This is what you're out there doing now. Yes. Is teaching. Okay. Teaching this. That's great. All right. I'm going to read off a list of things that happened in the 60s. And then I want to go through and hear it through your own eyes. So these are key dates. So in 1963, you have JFK assassination. 64, you have the Civil Rights Act. 65, voter rights. 65 also Watts riots, right? 65 also Selma bloody Sunday, which is where you're, you're a survivor of that. And then two more in 68, you have the MLK assassination. And in 68, you also have the RFK assassination. What was going on during that time? Let's go back to the beginning, the JFK assassination. What do you, what do you recall? What do you know about it? What, what, Where were

SPEAKER_00: 22:29

you? To me, it was good times. Not in a morbid way, but just people came together. Americans came together in the 60s. More than people talk about.

SPEAKER_02: 22:48

Really?

SPEAKER_00: 22:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 22:50

Wow. That's cool.

SPEAKER_00: 22:51

And the young people, that's why... It came together because of us. All people? Everybody in America. So black and white. Black and white.

SPEAKER_02: 23:03

And

SPEAKER_00: 23:03

whatever else. It started just like that. Just like that. White kids were saying, well, you know, I had problems with this guy over here when I was walking down the street, but you're not this guy. That's you and I dialogue. That's. talk about it let's let's grow our hair you know the hippies yeah yeah yeah sure uh and and so that that period was um amazing and it was full of trauma like the the kennedys yeah and dr king and all of that and But what's most important, I think, more important than those that fought for those rights, lost their lives, and what they wanted is what happened, for people to come together and start dialogue and start talking, start seeing each other. Yeah, yeah. With their own eyes. Right. And listening with your own ears instead of having someone come and tell you. Tell you, yeah. Because you know and I know if we start a rumor today and we go out and tell somebody on the sidewalk, and by the time it get downtown, it's probably been changed 100 times.

SPEAKER_02: 24:27

Sure. Sure. Wow. And that's what the 60s. So what changed at all? What did it start? What was the thing? Who struck first or what struck first?

SPEAKER_00: 24:41

Well, I think because of how it was all twined together, especially down south. I can say that and know that we struck first. Because we took more of the hate and all of that and helped people. Look, I'm not as bad as you think I am. You hear people say we got more in common than, you know, it's a fact.

SPEAKER_01: 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:23

And so we had to convince them with our blood, sweat, and tears. And I think we did. And then we got too relaxed. And then people started hating people again for no reason. In what time

SPEAKER_02: 25:42

frame?

SPEAKER_00: 25:43

About? I think the 60s is when everybody thought that You know, it was okay to go and shoot somebody or assassinate somebody because they wasn't for what you believe in. Yeah. And then America stood up and said, that's wrong. We're not going to allow that to happen. Sure. And so it quieted down and it rolled over to the 70s and the 80s. And the 80s is where things got lost. And people start doing stuff that wasn't a part of what we represent.

SPEAKER_02: 26:29

For example?

SPEAKER_00: 26:30

For example, you had intelligent people being, well, let's say, you had young people not knowing what we had fought for. And didn't care. All they wanted to do is get theirs. I got, you know, I got to go out and do this. Yeah. And then the... The dope came on the scene. It's like back in the 60s, the hardest thing we ever did, well, we did acid and marijuana. But these kids, they're doing all of the cranking, all the other stuff. And what you have to do is, if you can, get them away from it. Mm-hmm. But that's part of the problem in the 80s, what happened there. And those attitudes come from substance abuse, whether it's alcohol or drugs or whatever, and everybody was into it.

SPEAKER_02: 27:45

Yeah. With the JFK assassination, what were the theories and all that? What do you recall from that?

SPEAKER_00: 27:54

Wow, that was a hard one. I was in school and the teacher made the announcement and said, the president been shot. And we was like, whoa, because we kind of, kind of like a young man was telling us today that all of the history And he was one of the first ones and high up to recognize that these civil rights, human rights, and all the rights of individuals We need to look at that more closely because we are a country of a melting pot. And a lot of people come to this country to get away from all of that. And so that's why he was shot. I'm sure that was the reason. But it hurt our community really bad emotionally and emotionally. And then we had to pick the pieces up and keep going. The Kennedys was a friend to us, our community, and we had to get past that, and it was hard. But we did with the help of people like Johnson.

SPEAKER_02: 29:28

Yeah, so he comes in, and then let's pick up there. So LBG comes in. LBJ comes in. Did you know right out of the gate what he stood for, or was there a time of like, oh boy, we might go backwards? What was

SPEAKER_00: 29:46

all that about? It was never a time like, oh boy, we might go backwards. But we did, though. You did. London being, he, I don't think he understood it. Yeah. I think that he was a great politician. He could look and see, okay, this needs to be done. I need to, you know, if I'm thinking about my legacy, I need to get this done. And I think Dr. King helped him with that. So he and Dr. King became good friends, and so he grew like that. And he turned out to be one of the– most significant, uh, players in, in civil rights.

SPEAKER_02: 30:32

Sure. Cause what happens next? What, what, what, what, what the two big things that happened back to back then is civil rights and voter rights. So let's go right into those. Like, is that because of his work with Dr. King or how did all that play in together?

SPEAKER_00: 30:49

I think, I think it was a little of all of it. Uh, you know, um, like he, he must've learned something, uh, from, uh, The Kennedy? Yeah. And he learned something from King. And he had some influence on himself. I mean, with him. He used his capabilities to figure out a way to get it done with Dr. King. He didn't want it to, so to speak, but he was just like... Lincoln, you know, a good politician, if you're faced with some rhetoric and you want to fix it and you recognize it, a good politician would figure out a way to get it done. A good person. We'll figure out a way to get even

SPEAKER_02: 31:51

more than a good politician. Even more than a good. Yeah. All right. So what happens now? Does voter voter rights comes back? Voter rights and civil rights. The Civil Rights Act. Is this like, wow, we got it figured out now and everything's just incredible. And this is a great. Is that what it feels like, or were they just two things?

SPEAKER_00: 32:12

It was two things. But that's it? Yeah. You know, I think that, you know, like people, the voting rights is, a lot of people say it's under attack. And I believe that to a point. But I also know that if you want to vote... If you understood what the vote is all about, if you understand our civics in this country, oh, you'll go to vote. And that's what my message to the kids last week is. If you don't believe in the system, then you got to help your nana, your granddad. You got to go vote. Because here's what the vote do. The vote give you an opportunity if you see a street that need repair. And it's been there for years, all your little life. And nobody is trying to fix that hole in that street. When someone start running for mayor, you have to figure out, okay, which one is going to fix this hole?

SPEAKER_02: 33:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 33:34

And that's why you have to vote. Or which one is going to help my nana? Which one is going to help my granddad? Which one is going to make my life better? And that's what you have to do. And when people look at it that way, they usually go

SPEAKER_02: 33:54

and vote. They usually go and vote. And that's another big part of your message. So the voting part and then the self-purification MLK thing, which is so incredible. All right. Then comes on the scene in the same year is the riots, the Watts riots. Right. What's going on there?

SPEAKER_00: 34:11

Well, you know, from history, it looked like people was kind of on the edge because rights was being threatened and they thought, you know, Dr. King had took care of that. Them folks down in Alabama, when they got beat, they took care of that. And when all those clergymen came to Selma, Alabama and walked across the bridge, they took care of that. And when that young man, Jim, I forget his last name, walked 54 miles on one leg. Wow. Yes. And happened to be a white guy. They took care of that. But... What we did is pass the baton to you so you can finish the race. And they didn't do it. They dropped it. And didn't turn around to pick it up.

SPEAKER_02: 35:09

And that's... And that's what we have. That's what we have. So what sparked all... What was going on out there in Watts and what was going on in Selma at the same time?

SPEAKER_00: 35:20

When they... Just like Black Lives Matter, when... They was thinking that, hey, something ain't right here. We need to get this done. They thought maybe, maybe they thought that violence or confrontation instead of dialogue was the way to go. Yeah. But it's not. It goes back to that self-purification again. Yeah. Wow. And you have to convince others. That's what we do. We try to help our fellow Americans to understand how I am, understand how this works, understand. Let me help you today so you can live tomorrow independently.

SPEAKER_02: 36:19

Sure. If you had to just take a guess, this stat is probably not out there anyway, but just if you had to take a guess, while all this is going on in the country, it's so easy for me to sit and just go, It was all black, all white, and 100% of both hated each other. But I can't believe that that would be the case. What was the percentage? Did you have white friends? Oh, yeah. Okay. So if you had to throw a number out, was it like it was just half of both? Population? Yeah. Yeah. Everybody didn't hate the

SPEAKER_00: 37:02

other side. That's the only way we got it done because everybody didn't believe in all that hate.

SPEAKER_02: 37:06

Well, that reminds me of today. What's going on? Same thing. Social media will tell you to hate it. I should hate you. Right. If I listen to what my social media says, my posture towards you should be... I'm not even going to think about having you on my podcast if I follow social media. Right. I want other people to know that I want people listening to this to know that, that like, they're just framing it up to try to create hate. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 37:35

Okay. Because that's, uh, older man told me once he said, um, this, this guy was giving me a problem and, um, in, in my personal space. And I invited him out and only then when I took the posture of like, okay, If you're going to get in my space, me and you are going to have to whatever. And then he removed himself. And I was really hurt because I was trying to help the

SPEAKER_02: 38:10

guy.

SPEAKER_00: 38:11

Yeah, sure. And the old man said, you know, young man, he said, what you just experienced is some people's job. They get up in the morning and say, okay, who can I go– and harassed today. And that's the sad part about it. And, you know, they're going to always, but they're not the mass of the people. There's a little chunk that get up every morning and say, well, let me go and do something to John today. Right. I didn't like the way he looked at me yesterday.

SPEAKER_02: 38:49

And then that example that you're giving right there, that has marketplace It has marketability and dollars on it from the media standpoint. So that goes out to the media. That then takes the normal person like myself sitting here, right? Seeing it and going, everybody's doing that.

SPEAKER_00: 39:11

That's how everybody's acting. Right. And so it takes on a different character, right? Sure it does. By the time it gets to you, it's back. And the burden can be so heavy for you to do something. And if you don't have the ability to go inside and do that self-purification, get this off of me, I'm going to... There's been many times... I'm not an angel. I'm just saying. Yeah, sure. If you think about it, you can get it done. You can... Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Of that little hate he just put on you or she put on you, you have to give that back to that person because that person don't understand. In fact, that person lived. He got up this morning looking for you. Right.

SPEAKER_02: 40:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 40:22

Because

SPEAKER_02: 40:22

that's his job. That's his job. That's his job. All right. I want to come back to this. So we're at 19. We're at the Watts riots. Okay. And from my understanding of it, selma was like a little a a snapshot of what the riots in watts were so that was a that was a massive event for you guys but small as it relates to time right that was one day right but then watts what did that communicate back to you all

SPEAKER_00: 40:56

well what what it did is is Flipped it, right? They believe that when the young people in California understood what was happening down south, they say, well, the heck with that. Let me go out and hurt somebody. If everybody is about hurting someone, let me have my little piece. And that's what happened. Let me go and steal these sneakers. Let me burn this building down. let me let them feel some pain, whoever they are. Whoever they are.

SPEAKER_02: 41:33

Yeah. And what was, what actually, explain what you know of the riots, the riots at Watts. What was going on?

SPEAKER_00: 41:43

That's what I know. I know that they felt like we was under siege down in the South. Yeah. And white people was at, At any point they wanted to take a life, they can do it. And they would put you in jail for nothing. So the media would take those and run them to the headquarters and flash them across the country, right? So people would see them like you were saying. That's it. And that was ratings for them. And without thinking, hey, wait a minute, how is this going to affect John? And that's the way it is today, too. And it's just, ooh, when they sit there, they run a negative story, real negative, and they do it with a smile. Now I'm like, come on, buddy. You can do better than that. You don't have to smile. You can tell a story without smiling. You don't have to endorse it. And that's what was going on. And so when they got the news that Bloody Sunday was actually really bloody or we was in jail all the time, we was being beaten up all the time, and so they decided, well, I guess that's the way life is right now.

SPEAKER_02: 43:16

So folding the tent, so to speak. Yes. Were you, at that point in time, were you just, when all that's happening, did you say, well, we're in trouble? Or were you still fighting? What was your posture? Still fighting. Okay, so you're all in.

SPEAKER_00: 43:34

All in. I've been fighting since I was 13. And I am a senior now. So you're still, you're still fighting. I love it. I'm on the, I'm on the battlefield.

SPEAKER_02: 43:45

You're on the battlefield. We all are. Right. So in nine, so in 65, now the third big event, which we talked about was Selma. So the significance in Selma is bloody Sunday. Anything else big in and around that year in time in Selma? What was it like? What was life like? Well,

SPEAKER_00: 44:08

I, I, I, um, I look back on Selma during that period and I think about the spaces and places I was in and how I came out of it. Selma was, it was a great town to live in. I mean, as long as you stayed away from that side that want to hurt you.

SPEAKER_02: 44:39

Was it physically that side? Like when you say that side, like they're the people over there, we're the people over here?

SPEAKER_00: 44:45

No, as long as you don't run into those people where they, quote, call me troublemaker, but on the other side. those are really the troublemakers. Right. You know what I'm saying? But it's not

SPEAKER_02: 45:00

everybody on that side, and it's not everybody on your

SPEAKER_00: 45:02

side. So it's a small... They would get them some substance, beer, wine, whatever, and get in a pickup and just wanted to raise hell. And can you tell who those people were? Well, they more or less was the crowd or the people, the group of people that... It exists today. But we forget that they... I don't want to just put everybody in a box. But those type of people, like I said, the old guy told me, they are going to always be there. They get up every morning looking for something. And they have a chip, so to speak, on their shoulder. They may think that... Why are you... I put myself... I remember living in a space apartment and all the ladies, she said, she said, boy, take my garbage. No, ma'am, I live here. I do not take garbage. You probably should call the office. And... That was just her mental. Sure. She see a black guy? Well, maybe you come to take my garbage out. No, ma'am. You know, I am not doing that. You know, you can call the office. And I did it with a smile. And next day I saw her and I asked her how she was doing. And it kind of surprised her that I would say that. But that's the kind of stuff that gets not... Worked in if you do the formula and you get rid of it, you know, because this little old lady, you have to say God bless you, you know, because you don't know. Wow. You don't know what you just said. What did

SPEAKER_02: 47:08

she respond to you when you said that?

SPEAKER_00: 47:10

Just looked at me and smiled.

UNKNOWN: 47:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 47:13

I mean, and... From going to take my garb, from telling you to take our garbage out, I mean, that's a big change in two days. That's

SPEAKER_00: 47:21

a big change, isn't

SPEAKER_02: 47:22

it? That's a big

SPEAKER_00: 47:23

change. It was always there. It was always there with the little old lady. She just didn't know how to express it. She didn't know how to come out of that little shell, that hateful, that little small place she's in. Yeah, right. And... You know, and believing in everything she saw on TV.

SPEAKER_02: 47:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 47:45

And here on the radio, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 47:47

So it's 100% learned. And I want to just be very clear on that. Like, you can't come out of the womb and hate anybody, right? No. So you're learning in your life. There's no social media back then. News outlets, obviously, television, radio. Was there anything else happening? Were there other kind of movements? Or how else did these people learn hate? Well,

SPEAKER_00: 48:13

when they come around you, the haters, you can almost see it dripping off. You really can. I used to tell my supervisor in Minnesota, we were having political talks or hate talks, and I said, well, I kind of grew up with that. And I can probably spot a guy a block away or a girl with some of that in him on his shoulder. And that's kind of true. Yeah. Because it's like living in an environment– For instance, if you live in an environment where there's harmful things, little critters on the ground, and you have to be careful where you walk, for instance, like a snake in tall weed. I grew up that way. And I'm more tuned in to the snake than people who live in the city. You see, because I deal with that snake every day.

SPEAKER_02: 49:28

Yeah. So, yeah, what does a day look like? We'll get back into the timeline, but what does a day look like for you now? You said you're in the battlefield. What do you do? Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 49:38

Well, I promote my code every chance I get. I ask people to go down, and when you get to Selma, make sure you go in the interpretive center and check out. Can we find that online? Yes, absolutely. Where can you find it at? The Interpretive Center of Selma, Alabama. I don't know what part of that will help you because that interpretive center. But if you just look on the interpretive center in Alabama. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 50:15

Here it is. I got it. I got it pulled up. Okay. Cause we're going to link out to it. So yeah, here's an article. It made sense for John Suttles to join in on the fight for voting rights as early as the sixties. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 50:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 50:25

Oh, here's a great article. Okay. And then we'll find your thing. Cause I want to link to it. I think that's very special and, and use it in when we promote this, the social media. And you said that it's, it's, you call it a jacket, right?

SPEAKER_00: 50:39

Yes. It's actually a coat jacket. And the kids in Alabama, they call it a raincoat. And whatever you want to call it, but they did this documentary on voting, the little kids did. And they said, and the producers said, well, out of all you have seen, who would you like to meet? Where's Mr. Suttles? And... One year at the Jubilee in Selma, a little kid, I was standing, taking pictures with the coat for the people that came to the city, and the little guy, he said, he said, Is that the coat you had on? I said, yeah. He said, well, how old are you? I mean, because he's like, whoa. You know, and that's exactly what everybody in the room just cracked up. I mean, it was so innocent. I love it. Yeah. And I'll never forget his face. He was really serious. Sure. Right. You know. Mrs. Southers, how old are you? I was telling a story about the code and Bloody Sunday and And he was like, whoa, you must be really, really old.

SPEAKER_02: 52:04

Oh, it's great. And that's March 7 every year, right? Yes. So March 7 every year, that's a big thing that you do. You go there. So I want to also let everybody know that. And I'm sure they can find plenty of information on that. Oh, yeah. Okay. Incredible. Wow. All right. So 65. Bloody Sunday's over. 68. Now the world gets absolutely... MLK assassination. Yes. What's going on? Where are we at? What's all that? What's

SPEAKER_00: 52:37

going on? Well, instantly you ask yourself, oh my God. So who's going to stop all this stuff now? You're forgetting that you're part of it. So maybe you should jump in. And that's where people like myself come in. But you have this anxiety. Well, when we get another leader, what is it gonna be like? How is he gonna handle this, or she? And then you come to your senses, so to speak, and say, I really don't need a leader. I've been taught. Like I was telling Chris, I said, you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

SPEAKER_02: 53:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 53:28

You just have to keep it oiled. Keep it rolling. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02: 53:33

And that's one of your big key messages is what he taught you about the self-purification. That's incredible. So what was his actual title or responsibility? What did he do during those times?

SPEAKER_00: 53:48

He was a full-time preacher

SPEAKER_02: 53:51

here in Georgia. Yeah, but he had another title, right? Or another passion. I'm not even sure what it's... But he was a civil rights... Activist. Just activist or

SPEAKER_00: 54:04

head of the... He was head of Southern Conference Leadership. That's it. SCLC. SCLC. There you go. And he was also... He was a Georgia boy... And so was John Lewis. He was an Alabama boy. And John and I, we would always talk about the good times in the South there. And, you know, the last time we was together, we– I was helping John with the pilgrimage. A lot of kids come from California and all over the country just to see the formula, the format. Like the young man asked me that day, he said, I figured everything out, but what I need is the formula. How do I do this? I know I can do it, but give me the formula. And he was about 16. Yeah, my age when I got. And so my wife and I, we looked. It was like, whoa, these kids are ready. You just got to show them. He understand. I don't have to reinvent that wheel. All I got to do is keep it oil and keep it rolling. Wow. Yeah. That's the young kids. That's where they at. Yeah. And people, like I was telling Chris, when those young people decide to make a move on you, best thing to do is move. You got to get out of their way because they're coming. Yeah. And I've been telling people that for a long time. And I know that... They don't believe it. But if they keep living and people don't get it right, the young people is going to come. And just like we did down in Alabama in my time.

SPEAKER_02: 56:24

Yeah. What are the big mistakes we're making now that we haven't learned from history?

SPEAKER_00: 56:33

They keep telling the story about how... how they did it, how they did it. And you talk, you know, most of the young people, they will leave you with the impression that they don't want to be bothered with you, but they really, really need you. If you sit them down and you realize right away, you need me and you need to guide, give them the formula. Give them the formula. That's what they need. The

SPEAKER_02: 57:08

formula. All right. That's awesome. So you get the news. MLK dead. Right. What's going on for you personally and what's going on with your, I'm going to call it your movement because you've been a fighter your whole life as you've referenced. So what's happening? 1968.

SPEAKER_00: 57:29

I thought instantly, well, what's going to happen to my hometown now? I was in Minnesota. What's going to happen to the people that Dr. King would automatically lift up just by saying hello, white and black? What's going to happen to them? What's going to happen to the country? You know, if someone had that kind of hate or feel that way to kill people, Dr. King, what's really going on? Am I safe to talk about who I am and where I'm from and my beliefs?

SPEAKER_02: 58:17

Is

SPEAKER_00: 58:24

someone going to be out to do that to me? So all of those things come across your mind. And then you settle down. And you say, okay, well, so be it. You know, I can't just sit back and not do anything to help other people understand what needs to happen to make everybody okay and comfortable again. Big. Yeah. And that's what we gave up. A lot of people don't want to take the time. to do that but we we should and we better because it depends on our democracy the democracy depends on us doing certain things at certain uh period in in our life um and civics is one of those big big big thing to do yeah get involved

SPEAKER_01: 59:27

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 59:27

and uh john lewis used to call it good trouble I love that. Good trouble. Good trouble. Yeah. Get in some good trouble. Oh, I love that. Good trouble. And when you get in good trouble, you got it. That's what it is. It entails all of that that we've been talking about. Yeah. And a lot of people don't see it that way until, you know, like my communication skills may not be the best. the skills that that person, that would open that person up so he understand what the trouble is, but your communication skills may be the one. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And so when we all collectively try to make it a better place. Sure. That's what

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:19

happens. It's a great message. Does anybody fully replace MLK? No. They just... They just can't. They just can't replace that kind of human being.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:32

Exactly. Yeah. And that's probably good because, like I say, we know what he left us with, right? He gave us the formula. You have the formula. It ain't about all that other stuff. It's about... Dialogue and love and

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:56

coming together. Facts, negotiations. Boom, boom, dialogue. Yes. Direct to action dialogue, yeah. Direct action. Direct action. Boom, wow. All right, so I'm sure there's a period of time then when maybe some stabilization happened. So MLK, 1968.

UNKNOWN: 1:01:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:19

Was it a year? Was it five years? What happened until there was stabilization again?

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:27

Well, you know, things haven't really settled down since then. Think about it. Okay. It's been up and down. It's been up and down. And, you know, you have somebody come along and say, well, we're going to do this. We're going to. We want to extend the voting rights. We want to extend this. We want to do this for the seniors. And they'll do it this period, and the next period, it'll go back up. It's right on the green board. There it is. We've got to deal with that again. But see, that's the beauty of it. That's what I was telling you earlier. You never, ever get done. And that's why you have to take the young people and give them the formula and how we did it. And if you take the formula, you can figure out how to do it for yourself. But you got to have the formula, which is you got to get along. You got to talk to people. You got to live together. That's it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:41

That's a strong message. What happens also in 68RFK? What's going on then, again, for you and in the community? What message does that send out?

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:54

Well, it sent out to us, the black community, that everybody that was trying to help us rise up... Is gone. Is gone. People just... decided that, okay, we're going to kill that one. We're going to take care of that. And at a point, it come to you like, okay, so if that's the case, then let's... Let's get together again and see could we make an announcement by the masses of people. And that's what's going on, so to speak, now. The mass is always popular. Because people in America, we sit back and we watch because we don't want to be wrong about it. We always want to be right. Always. And those of us that do that. Yeah, sure. And so the people are saying, man, it was surprising to see the senior citizens out in Arizona saying they want to talk to their congressman. I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. That's the job he told us he was going to do.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:20

And he need to do it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:21

And

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:22

you know, they're going to hold you accountable. Sure. That's

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:25

what America do. Yeah. Have you been out speaking since like basically your whole life or when, when did you get into that schools and stuff like that? So you've been out schools. What do people mostly bring you on for the bloody Sunday or just civil rights in general or something different?

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:44

Well, uh, both of those. Uh, and, uh, Most people want to hear about the Bloody Sunday. Yeah. And the kids, they're sort of that way, but they actually want to hear about the formula. How did you do that? Why? You know, how did you feel when you was going to jail like that? And when that guy hit you, how did you get back up and go back out there?

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:17

Without... Yeah. I mean, there had to be hate somewhere along the way.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:23

Well, what it was is disappointment. Yeah. Disappointment is like, guy, why are you hitting me? I mean, can we talk? I mean, you want to talk about it? You want to know why I'm here? Yeah. Right. Don't you? I know you do, but, you know.

UNKNOWN: 1:05:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:41

But, you know, that's that pocket I was telling you. Get up in the morning and say, okay, well, let me see what kind of stuff I can get into. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:51

yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:51

Trouble,

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:52

but not good trouble. The bad trouble. The bad trouble. The bad trouble. So, all right, some general questions about that time in history. I mean, it's true you'd have different water fountains. Mm-hmm. Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:08

Was

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:09

that just normal?

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:10

That was. Did you see a problem with that? Oh, absolutely. That's, you know, like those of us that did the history and read about people and stuff, events and all of that, you knew it was wrong.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:32

Yeah. So during the time doing it, you knew it was... I know you looking back, it was wrong. Yes. But as you're doing it, like you're in two different lines, two different fountains. Yes. You're like... This is so insane. This is so

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:45

insane.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:46

Did you ever see a day where you'd have one fountain that

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:48

everybody would drink together? What's in that fountain that got white only? Let me taste that. Is there something different in that water? Right. Right. You know, for instance, like my mother, she worked on the other side of town from the East Selma. I lived in the East side. She worked for a white lady on the West side and she was made and she washed her clothes and, and, uh, iron her clothes and cook dinner and she would come home. She had, uh, she was asthmatic. Yeah. And, um, and one day, um, She came home crying, and her feet was, she had her shoes off, and I was like, what's going on, right? And so she told me that the bus was too full for her to get on, and there were seats up front, but the guy wouldn't let her sit down in the bus. She said, I'll stand. And he was like, the aisles are too full for you to stand. So she had to walk, and that just blew me away. How far? At least four or five miles. And I was like, oh, no, this ain't right. It's worse than the water. But they all equally is not right. And so I got involved. At that point, I got involved in the civil rights movement. And here I am.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:26

Hmm. Did you get to know during the, like during that bus, the bus sacred, we'll call it like the segregation, I guess is what you refer to it as, right? When it was, was that was the same time as the water fountains, right? What other kind of stuff was happening there? And what other kind of people did you get introduced to that were fighters for those causes to try to Because there's a lot of key characters during that time.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:55

Yes, that was always someone willing to put themselves in harm's way to better other people. And you didn't have to look very far. And we had a young principal, a school teacher, his name was Reverend Reese. He was the one. that stood up and demanded that the buses had to allow people of color, black folks to come on and sit in the front. Dr. King used to tell a story about, don't the municipal and all the controllers, don't they know that if you want to keep a person down, you do not let him sit in the back and watch you drive the bus. Because guess what? Now he know how to drive the bus. That was some of that. purification, Dr. King. He would, he would tell us stories like that. And, and you'll be, I went just like you. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:15

Like incredible. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:16

Yeah. Now I see you shifting. Now I see you turning. Now I see how you take the money. I see, I see everything from the back. And, and, uh, when it's time, uh, for me to come up front is close up. And, uh, Ironically, I drove a bus in my career for the city of Minneapolis. Yeah. That's something. Oh, wow. That's so cool. Yeah, right. Wow. And did outreach for the state, for the city. Yeah. And that's what I do

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:52

now. So who was pushing to have that, like, Were there key people, key names out there that were pushing to have the bus thing broken up, the waterfront thing broken up?

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:04

Oh, yeah. You know, Dr. King, Reverend Reese, he invited Dr. King to Selma because he had dealt with Rosa Park and Montgomery. And so we... We knew all about that right there. It's like, okay, we know how to get it done because we got a formula now. We have a formula that they used in Montgomery. And it is such a brain burn for people to think 95% of your business is black. But you got 95% of your bus empty and they can't sit in the seat. And guess what they do? They stop riding your bus. And guess what? Your bus is sitting on the side of the road now in a pasture someplace rotten. And the bus system had never came back from that boycott.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:10

No way. What would happen if you just went out and started your own bus business? I thought of that. You were going to just get crushed?

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:18

No. They'll probably do a parade for me or something. Really? Because that is something that poor people need. They need public transportation. Yeah, right. And to get to and from.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:39

Especially older folk. to go to the drugstore or to go to the grocery store. You know, because the little old ladies that live by themselves, the husband passed five years, ten years ago, and now she's taxed with taking care of the whole household. Yeah, for sure. And she has to go shopping. She don't drive. And, you know, all the people love to be independent. And so now, if you got a transit that helped them get from A to B, they love it. And that was part of the outreach I did for the Twin Cities. That's

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:28

so neat. What other kind of stuff was going on in that decade, the 60s?

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:35

I know the 60s not only did it Bring all the young folks together, but as I was talking to Chris earlier today, the music brought us together. The music. It was the music. There was a song... From the 60s, it was called, It's the Music. And it was the music. Right. And, you know, we all used to get together and hang out in a park. Yeah. West Bank of the University of Minnesota. And we were hippie down. We was all just, it was just, you know. And the bad part about it, everybody thought it was all free love. No.

UNKNOWN: 1:14:23

No.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:23

They were just young people, just happy to intermix and tell stories about themselves or talk about your family and listen to good music.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:36

Yeah. Do you have an all-time favorite song ever, something that means so much to you from those days?

UNKNOWN: 1:14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:45

There's so many. Or band. I like the way Led Zeppelin and those guys, Gene Page and all those guys on the rock and Jimi Hendrix on the R&B. I love some songs from Marvin Gaye and James Brown and And Jerry Butler was more of my mom's speed, but I was with Jerry. I needed me some Jerry Butler. Yeah. And some Sam Cooke, right? Oh, awesome. Yeah, and when he did that Change is Gonna Come, that was our anthem in the civil rights movement.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:37

Change

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:37

is Gonna Come. Still? Still. Is it still being used?

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:41

Oh, yeah. Everybody that, especially social issues, when people think of a thing, they want to play A Change Is Gonna Come. I love that. Okay, cool. And it is one of those songs that will be around forever. Ever. Yeah. And Judy Blue Eyes. Yeah. I know a certain person know that one. Oh, yeah. That's music, man. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:15

History and music, those two. If you ever have a question, you just ask him. It's funny. All right, let's talk a little bit, a couple more things. So we'll fast forward some of the stuff that we're seeing today, some of the things, the bigger issues. I'm going to ask because I just truly don't know. So it's probably going to be very, very basic stuff. So I want to get a good understanding. What are some of the lies

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:43

today? The biggest one is people in denial. That's a lie. Of what? Anything you ask them about it. Well, you know, you want things... I sit here and talk with you about America. Mm-hmm. you always want it to be successful. Because if America do good, so do you. And right now we have growing pains again. But that is to be not forever. And all we have to do is endure the pains right now. Because people... that have, well, let's just say it, people that's being abused now is the people that need it more than, and they are out to help other people. When you get a guy that haven't been elected by us calling the shots, you know, How is that going to work for you? That's not good. And now you got the seniors all bothered because you didn't come and talk to them. You didn't come and explain anything. If you're going to do something like that, you got to come and talk to us. That's our money. We put it in there. You didn't put it in there. You may be pretty rich, but you didn't put that money there. And that's the kind of stuff, you know. You don't have to be a politician to know that. You know that from all these years I've been living. And I don't have to hate you to tell you that. That money is my money. Hands off. And I told my congressman and my senator how I wanted that money to be distributed. And they are the ones that wrote the law. And you can't go break the law like that. And we are a land of laws. And boy, I tell you, if you don't believe it, you go out there and hit somebody with your automobile and try to get away. Citizens is going to arrest you. That's what we do. Right,

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:20

right. Yeah. What about, what about the topic of DEI? It's like, yeah, that's crazy. I want to know though. I want to,

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:30

I see both sides. Right. I mean, you know, you, to say DEI is, is man, that's crazy. That that's, that's sort of like, uh, we don't need water anymore.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:49

You need different thoughts at the table.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:54

And however you're going to get them to the table, as long as you're not hurting anybody. Right. Bring the people on and let's see, John, what do you think about? We're thinking about engineering. We're getting ready to put this brand new bridge

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:13

on

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:14

400. What do you think? Yeah. You got, you know, you got some intelligence about this. How do you think we should go about this? Yeah. How do you think we should take this to the community? How do you think, you got to have those in, you know, everybody can't be the boss. Right. So you got to have some people that have knowledge of what you're doing and taking it to the people. You got to take all of your ideas seriously. In America, that's the way we do it. You got to take it to the people. And, you know, DEI, if that's what you want to call it, call it that. But here's what I do know. You're going to need them. Sooner or later, those people that you think that don't deserve to be where they're at, oh, you're going to need them because that's the way the world is.

UNKNOWN: 1:21:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:15

They have ideas that you can use. Yeah. And you have ideas that they can use. And who knows? Maybe you'll put together a couple of ideas from you and them and it'd be the best thing in the world. For sure.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:30

You know. So is it more diversion of, or is it more like diversity of thought?

UNKNOWN: 1:21:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:38

That's what it seems like. I don't care who it is. I want diverse thinkers. Like I interviewed a guy, Chad Foster, who's blind and became very, very successful in business. So he's blind. He's in boardrooms. Right. His point is, I can't even see what you look like. Right. So I can't care what you look like. Hallelujah. I want diversity of thought. Right. And that can be despite or because of or whatever. Right. How anybody looks. Is that true?

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:11

Well, that's part of that formula, right? I would think it is. Oh, of course it is. But you can't just move a person because the person looked this way or that way. Like you say, the guy was blind. But he sits in the board meeting, and he hears all these ideas, and he don't have a clue of what you look like. Right. And that DEI. So I think that that's what board members probably should stand up and say. Hey, all I'm looking for is great ideas. I don't care who got them.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:01

Yeah, I don't care if

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:01

you're pink. Pink. Bring it. Bring it on. Help me solve this problem.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:09

Right. Are we off our rockers at some point? We get too relaxed. It seems like it's just getting crazier and crazier.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:22

Instead of stopping it, when it's very young, we always want somebody else to do it. And so today we passed that debris in the road. You say, well, somebody's going to

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:40

grab it. Somebody's going to grab it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:41

Grab it and throw it on the side. What a great point. And then tomorrow you come back, it's still there. Right. And this time it created an accident, so it got bigger.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:53

Oh, that is such a good analogy. I love that, the garbage analogy. Yes. All right. what other lies are are people hearing like social media is such a disaster it can be so good but man when it's evil it could be tremendously evil because a piece of content gets out there that could be completely false and now everybody's got it like this because of the algorithms what kind of stuff like what kind of stuff do you hear that's just really causing divide and it it's probably not even right or could be just completely made up.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:29

Yeah. You know, like you say, there's, there's a lot of the, uh, I, I don't deal with the social media that much. Um, I, uh, I only, uh, uh, uh, look at it when, when it, uh, created some problems. Uh, and, uh, I tell my wife, I didn't even know you could do that, right? Where did this guy, where is he getting off saying that? I didn't even know if he could, can he really talk about people like that? Can he lie like that on people? And the answer is yeah. And, you know, I think that, you remember, that was about, it was about 10 years, maybe a little, yeah, a little longer than that. We suggested that we need to take a look at this internet and maybe put some laws together. And everybody got, oh, the First Amendment, oh, Lord, don't do that. I know. But we would have been smart if we had tackled that then. See, now it's out of control.

UNKNOWN: 1:25:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:41

Just like the garbage on the road. Yeah. It's out of control.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:45

Beyond belief.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:46

Yeah. It's

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:47

beyond belief. So I want to wrap up on this one. In order for the message, you said we just need the formula, right? That's the main thing. It doesn't matter that the guy is gone. His formula lives on forever. So for the formula to live on forever, there has to be Truth associated with it, right? Because we're getting flooded with all this stuff. Hate him because of this. Okay, great. That sounds good. I want to focus on the truths and I know there'll be several or even many. So your legacy, your truths, you got a shot to speak at. I don't even know. It might be millions of people. right now on a platform, walk me through what are the truths that the younger generation needs to embrace for this hate to continue to go in the right direction instead of the wrong direction.

SPEAKER_00: 1:26:46

Yes, I totally agree. And I understand. And it's just like I told the students last week at the high school. I said, I told my story. And I told how I dealt with it. And I told about the people around me in those days. And we talked about the people that abused me physically. And I said, don't just take my word for it. Please do your research. Go and find out that John Suttles tell you the truth about whatever he was saying. And The kids, you could just hear them. Oh, yeah. And then all of a sudden, big smiles everywhere. So they had to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So that's my message. If I tell you it happened this way, I'm putting myself out and I'm telling you right now, if you don't believe it, go and dig it up. And it's there. Yeah. Yeah. No matter what, it's there. Wow. And, you know, a young kid, I was telling about the time I was interviewed by the FBI. And he said, wow. He said, well, what did they do? Did they put you in jail or what happened? I said, go and look it up. I said, it's on the FBI vault. It's in there. They got my name next to John Lewis and Jose William. And they talk about, they was trying to interview me and I was on the march. So he was like, really? So I'm sure he's satisfied now.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:33

Yeah. Incredible. Wow. Thanks for taking the time to come out and share all this. Thanks for inviting me. It's remarkable. And I'll say, so you're a living testament to, That we can, like, I can sit here and sense that with all you've been through, you don't have hate. That's, that's like a miracle at the least to say like a bare minimum, it's a miracle. I mean, it's incredible. So self-realization. I mean, I love this phrase. I love it. I love everything that you're about. Self-purification, right? So the self-purification. So I just can't wait to get this message out. out to the world.

SPEAKER_00: 1:29:22

All right. And, and that, that, that is you and I doing our thing and doing our part. Yeah. Uh, and, and there's crazy, crazy times right now. Yeah. People have to know that there's people like yourself and me out here, um, you know, talking to the truth, the real, they say, and the kids call it talking to a hundred, uh,

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:46

Talking to 100. Yes. All right. Well, we talked to 100. I want to shake your hand. It was incredible. Thank you. Thank you for a great interview. Appreciate it.

UNKNOWN: 1:29:53

Thank you.