Retired U.S. Secret Service Agent (Near-Death Story & More!)

What happens when a Secret Service agent stares death in the face—over and over again?

Meet Scott Bryson, a man whose career in the Secret Service reads like a Hollywood thriller. From high-stakes missions overseas to life-or-death moments on U.S. soil, Scott’s stories aren’t just intense—they’re jaw-dropping.

In this episode, he takes us inside some of the most heart-pounding moments of his career, including a dramatic hospital dash while leading the protection detail for Lara Trump—just as she was about to give birth.

Scott’s charisma, courage, and storytelling will hook you instantly. He’s built a massive following on Instagram and YouTube, and his podcast Beyond the Service is a must-listen for anyone who loves real stories of courage, chaos, and character.

If you like stories that make your palms sweat and your heart race, you’re in the right place.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

All right, folks, welcome back to another episode. I have Scott Bryson here, 25-year retired

SPEAKER_00: 0:05

Secret Service agent out on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok. You're Scott Bryson, BTS, right? Yes, BTS for Beyond the Service. Beyond the Service. Yep. And what a story we have here today.

SPEAKER_01: 0:19

Oh, my goodness. So each time I bring on somebody who's done this incredible line of work... It's impossible to interview you guys like the exact same way because your careers look so different. So I've had on Eddie, I've had on Derek and just looking at the three, you guys, all three retired secret service agents, such different careers. Yeah, man, you got an incredible one. So I can't wait to hear more about it today and share it. I appreciate you having me on. I'm going to just go right in. Tell me if you ever almost died on the job.

SPEAKER_00: 0:51

From sleep deprivation, probably. Yeah, sometimes it's not quite as sexy as the movies make it to be. There's a lot of boredom, which is a good thing. Believe it or not, boredom is a good thing with the Secret Service. But yeah, there was a couple of times when I felt really scared. I've been to Afghanistan twice. One time as a counter-assault team guy, worked with some SEALs. That was cool. So that was a little hairy, but I felt— Is that CAT? CAT, the CAT team. Okay, CAT. Counter-assault team. Counter-assault team. Sorry, a lot of acronyms. You're good. So worked with SEAL Team 3, I think it was, but I don't remember. But I mean, it was a little hairy because it's Afghanistan, but you had the boys, so you felt good. The second time I went to Afghanistan, I was a shift agent, so I was doing Karzai's Palace. When President Bush was in office in 08, leaving office, remember he had the shoes thrown at him in Iraq. Was it Iraq? Yeah, Iraq. And so we were in Afghanistan, so I had done Karzai's Palace as the side agent, and GRS, which is the global response staff for the CIA, they were my... It's so many acronyms. My QRF, my quick reactionary force, right? QRF, awesome. So if your audience is familiar with like 13 Hours, those guys was kind of who I was embedded with. And we were at like a CIA compound in Kabul. And we were there for like a week without... Telling the Afghanis because I guess they just didn't trust them. Yeah. So that was a little hairy and we can talk about. But the scaredest I ever was was actually in Jamaica when I thought I might actually die. I was working a two-man element, counter-assault team element with Jenna Bush. And we went down to like a shanty town. She was doing a documentary with Diane Sawyer, I believe it was, back in the day. Jenna was working for UNICEF and they were trying to make a documentary about behind the scenes type of stuff. And we went down to a shanty town, which was basically a drug Lord area. And, um, we went in like a three or four car motorcade and the people down there initially thought that they were going to get, they were getting raided by another gang. But they said the reason they didn't shoot us up is because they saw a bunch of white faces, you know, Kingston, Jamaica is no joke, man. Kingston, Jamaica. If anybody's ever been to Kingston, Jamaica, they, No, it's rough. And I've been to Cape Town. That's also a rough place. But, you know, you would think you would be scared to death in Afghanistan. Yeah. Not Jamaica. But I really thought we might not make it out that night. Well, we did. But it was a little shady. I mean, so what? Cars roll up on you? So we can't... Imagine like a really narrow road, just big enough for a car. Okay. Like a one-lane road. Yeah, yeah. But it's... shanty, like sheet metal or whatever, the stuff, you know what I mean? Like thin, like shacks is what it is.

UNKNOWN: 3:41

Yeah, shacks.

SPEAKER_00: 3:41

And it was very—I think there was some electricity down there. I can't really remember, but I remember being lit by fire. It felt like you were totally in a third-world country, even though it was Jamaica. I went to Jamaica for my honeymoon. Right. So there's that side, and then there's this other side. The other side. Right. So Kingston is rough, and it was just really tall. I remember really tall walls, and I just remember seeing shadows of people scurrying around, grabbing machetes, getting AKs. And I'm like, oh, we're in it, you know? And so my buddy John that I was with and myself were the tactical support, right? We had our M4s or whatever, and we had a counterpart from Jamaica Police, and he had a Glock with a 30-round mag. 30-round mag. So he was like, we shouldn't be down here. We're like, yeah, no kidding. We don't want to be down here either. It was like 10 o'clock at 9, 11. It was late, you know? It was like, it was dark. And so... We went down there, and I think it got de-conflicted pretty quickly because they saw Jenna get out. They're like, oh, that's the president's daughter. And then there's a news crew and lights and cameras. So it worked out. Wow. All right. Do all Secret Service agents walk around the president and wear suits? No. It's a good question. So very few do, actually. I had the privilege of doing– I'll try to explain these acronyms. PPD, which as you know, is Presidential Protective Division. So when you start with the Secret Service, you're in phase one as a criminal investigator. I started in the Charlotte field office. Some guys start in Dallas or Detroit or whatever, right? So you go and do your investigative time. Then you go phase two, five or six year mark, usually around the five or six year mark, you go to phase two. And that's when I went to PPD. Some guys go to VP. Some guys go to formers. Vice president, VP, vice president. Yeah, vice president. Some guys go to like, you know, Carter's passed away now, but like guys go to plain Georgia, or they did. You know, and some guys would go to California to Reagan or Bush 41. What are

SPEAKER_01: 5:43

those details called? Do they have a name for them?

SPEAKER_00: 5:46

Like satellite? No, they call, former, just a former, like former Carter or former Bush. And do those kids of those presidents still get protection? It gets a little tricky because they can do executive orders, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like any child up to eight, originally back in the day, it was when you left office, if you had a child up to age 16, they got it. You know, if you got, if you passed away, like Reagan passed away, Nancy Reagan got it because she never remarried. But if they get divorced or remarried, all bets are off. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. But then like, for example, like when Obama came in, Well, let's go back to Bush. When Bush came in, his girls were in, I think, high school. Yeah. So they had it through college, and then he gets out, so they didn't get it after that, right? Because he's a former, and they're in their 20s. I'm trying to remember how the Obama girls were, but they were smaller. Yeah. So we sort of watched them grow up and go. So, like, they got some stuff, I think, for a little while. And anybody watching this that was on that could correct me. But, like... A lot of it's got to do with age and stuff like that. Oh, we'll get corrected. Don't worry about that down in the comments. Sorry. We'll both get corrected. It's funny. Well, as you know, having a personality out on the internet, you're going to get a lot of opinions. Yeah. Well, can I just touch on one thing real quick to kind of segue into that? So when Trump got in this first time in 2016, it was different for us for that because he had grown children. Now, Barron was a different situation. But he had grown children, and he was a sitting president or president-elect. So I've seen that, too. So, for example, like Eric and Laura Trump and Don Jr. and all those guys and Ivanka, they all had it. But as soon as 45 was out, that dropped off, if that makes sense. That answers your question. Yeah, so it dropped off for them because they're older? Because they're older kids? Yeah, well, because, like I said, it was up to 16 back the way the law was originally written. So when Trump left office, you know, they're 35, 40, whatever they are. Yeah. Now, I will say this, too. And it's a little like every Secret Service agent's career is a little different. Yeah. So is every protectee. So like this last time when Biden and Kamala lost. We don't just like, okay, January 21st, you're on your own. That's not cool. So they usually get like a six-month lead way. Sometimes it's a year. It depends on the threat level, too. Like John Bolton, I don't know if you remember John Bolton, but he was the NSA for... I guess for Trump. I don't know if he... He was around back during the Bush years, too, but he was one of the NSAs for

SPEAKER_01: 8:31

Trump. Yeah, I remember

SPEAKER_00: 8:32

seeing him all the time. Kind of a war hawk type guy, and he has a high threat level on him from the Iranians. And so... right before I retired in 2022, I was still doing stuff to help them. Like this guy still got protection, but it's based on threat level. Based on threat level. Yeah. So there's not a black and white. It can get gray. They have it black and white on paper, but it gets gray. It gets gray. Yeah. Because even if you might disagree politically, they're going to try to do it. They don't want somebody to get killed. No. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. So I'm going to, you

SPEAKER_01: 9:03

mentioned Trump and Eric Trump, you ran his detail. We're Come back to you in Charlotte. So you get your gun and badge. You walk off stage. That's a cool feeling. You go to Charlotte. What was special about Charlotte

SPEAKER_00: 9:18

at the time?

SPEAKER_01: 9:18

Because you're unique to get your

SPEAKER_00: 9:22

hometown. Well, yeah, I was lucky because I was a cop. I wasn't a Charlotte cop, but I was a Concord City police, which is the next town over. So I had been a cop. And the boss down there– It's called a special agent in charge. You probably know that, but your audience might not. So the special agent in charge, the SAC of the FBI or the Secret Service, he or she is the boss for that office, right? And it's an investigative branch of the service. And that person wields a lot of power. And at that time, the boss down there was trying to build up his office with former police officers so that we could kind of hit the ground running investigatively and not have to train them up. Because you go through a six-month training academy, but one of the ASACs that worked down there was– love that guy I'll try not to use last names because I don't have permission you know I'll try to be respectful but this guy named Mike I love that guy um he was a big strong he was in his 50s and I was 20 something I'm like I want to be that guy so I mean he you know he's like early 50s tall fit and um And he's like, well, you know, Fletch is to turn shoe salesmen into cops. So that was kind of like what he– he didn't really hide from– he didn't do a good job of masking his emotions, but he's like, ah, that's for shoe salesmen to become cops. So anyway, basically they were trying to get a bunch of former cops in that office so that we could be up to speed and just kind of hit the ground running. And I started there, and I went to the counterfeit squad. And I did that for three years, and I enjoyed that because it was like street-level crime, but it was more like being a cop because it was a lot of guns and drugs-type stuff. Because if I'm a drug dealer and you buy drugs from me with counterfeit money, I'm not really going to turn you in because you ripped me off. I wouldn't admit that I sold you drugs. So there was a lot of bad, seedy people doing counterfeit money because they would rip you, which leads to homicides. And then I found myself on the Violent Crimes Task Force for one year, which was run by the ATF and the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department and the State Bureau. Like, you know, in Georgia you have the GBI. In North Carolina they have the SBI, which is the State Bureau. And so I was on that task force for a year, and that was fun because I was like– Ooh. Yeah. Ooh. Awesome. So you come on Charlotte, you're, you're there for a handful of years, five years at that point, looking

SPEAKER_01: 12:11

out towards your, towards your career. So you have a long career ahead of you. Were you thinking I am only secret service. I'm not moving anywhere

SPEAKER_00: 12:19

else. So were you open to like, Oh, if CIA calls, NSA calls, or if anybody else calls at that, that's a great question. Uh, which we haven't really talked about, but, um, No, I knew, so I have an education degree. I wanted to be a high school football coach, which I do coach now as a volunteer. I love coaching football. So I wanted to be a high school football coach, but I was a December grad. Sorry, I'm kind of building a story here. But I was a December grad, so I got hired at a middle school, which ruined me. I'm like, I am being a teacher. So that's how I found my way into the police world. So I went and became a cop for two years, and I knew all along that I wanted to be a Secret Service agent because I had met a guy when I was a sophomore in college. I met a guy named Bob. And again, I'm not going to use last names out of respect. Awesome human being. And I just had this thought. I don't know why at 20 years old– I had this thought like, well, FBI agents and secret service, they're probably just really cocky and arrogant dudes and they wouldn't talk to a kid like me. This guy couldn't have been nicer. I made him out of Christmas Eve service. He was home and visiting his parents for Christmas Eve. Nicest guy in the whole world. And I'm like, well, I'm an education degree. And he goes, dude, we're very diverse. We're not like, the Bureau is very specific, like accountants and lawyers and stuff. That's cool. But he goes, we're very small and we're very diverse. Stick with your degree. Don't get caught up in, you don't need a CJ, criminal justice degree, just whatever. Do your thing. So I'm like, okay. So I stayed the course. All my fraternity brothers, of course, made fun of me. Like, you have a PE degree and you're going to be a what? I'm like, yeah, right, dude. So I'm like, hold my beer. Watch this. So challenge accepted. So I went to the police department with the whole goal in mind of becoming a Secret Service agent because I... Listen, man, I'm a self-aware guy. I'm not the guy that's going to build your bridge or cut your brain open, right? I'm not dumb, but I'm not the sharpest knife. I'm like very middle of the road, and I'm self-aware. But so how am I going to take my skill sets and make money for my family, which you can make some pretty decent money as a federal agent. I was making$24,000 a year as a cop, and I'm like, that's not sustainable. So I was trying to see big picture down the road, you know, Six-figure income,$150,000, whatever it was. It varies, right? But like$100,000 to$200,000 is very good money for a person like me from where I'm from. And so I'm like, I can do that. So I had a goal in mind that I'm a patriot. I love my country. But I'm not completely like... You know, it's not just about the country. It's about my livelihood, too. So if I can check two boxes at one time, I can be a patriot and serve my country because I really regretted not being in the military. You know what I mean? So I'm like, I'm a civil servant and I'm going to serve my country, but I'm also going to make a good living for my family. And so, no, at that time I did not have any desire to go other places. The Secret Service was kind of like my goal and I got it. Yeah. So I was tickled to death. Yeah. Sorry, it's a long answer, but. No, it's fantastic. So

SPEAKER_01: 15:24

two acronyms you mentioned in there, just want you to explain those for the audience. I don't want to cut you off. You said FLETC and then you said ASAC. So tell me about both.

SPEAKER_00: 15:34

Okay. The FLETC is the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. It's in Glencoe, Georgia. There's one somewhere in... I went to the other. Did you go to Mexico? Artesia. Artesia, yeah. I think they're up to five now. Oh, okay. I know there's at least three or four, but I think that... I'm a dinosaur, man. I don't know. So it's like I went to FLETC at Georgia, Glencoe, Georgia. Glencoe, there was only one. And so, yeah. And so that's where I went down there. And you do three months there, and then you go to your... So like the FBI and the DEA, they all go to Quantico, and they're just self-contained. But like Border Patrol... CBP, all the things, Secret Service, ATF, whatever, fill in the blank. You go to Flat C for your general stuff, and then you go to your agency-specific. So I did three months up in Beltsville, Maryland, as you know all about. So it's a six-month total thing. And then ASAC is just the assistant special agent charge. So Mike, the guy that I was talking about, the guy that I wanted to be like. Yeah. Sorry, Mike, if I let you down. I'm 53. I'm not sure I'm in good shape like you were, but he's awesome. I love that guy. I think he's still with us. He's probably in his 70s, but he was an awesome dude. But he was... The ASEC, the number two guy. We'll try to tag him.

SPEAKER_01: 16:46

You do the same, too, once we get this episode. We'll try to find him out on social

SPEAKER_00: 16:49

media. He's great.

SPEAKER_01: 16:50

You mentioned military, and you said you regret not doing the military, which is interesting. I share that same feeling with you. Why do you feel you didn't do military?

SPEAKER_00: 17:00

Well, it was pretty simple for me back then. I graduated high school in 1990, so there hadn't been a war. since Vietnam, right? A major conflict. And so like, of course, Operation Desert Storm and all that hit in like 1991, but I was already in college. My thought was, which is kind of weird because both of my grandfathers were World War II veterans that were in the Army and they both survived. And I lived two and a half hours from Fort Bragg. So the fact that I didn't try to become Special Forces is like, I'm so mad at myself, but I didn't think about it then. You know what I mean? And so my thought was, You play whatever sport you're playing for as long as you can. I played college football. I was a walk-on, so it was a hard road, but I wasn't good enough to go pro. I knew that, but I was self-aware. I'm not going to the league, but I want to play ball for as long as I can. So you play whatever sport you're playing for as long as you can. You get a degree, you get a job, you get a wife, and you live happily. That's just what I thought. And then, of course, after 9-11 happens, I'm like, man. I would have loved to have been a SEAL. I don't know if I would have made it through. Those are hard programs. But I love my country, and I wanted to serve in that capacity, and I didn't. But I've served in a different way. So as an older man, I've taken solace in that. But ego, I think ego's got a lot to do with it too. You know what I mean? Sure. All right, you said you made it on your first attempt, which is pretty cool, Secret Service. So what if you didn't? Oh, you didn't pass the test right out of the gate? No, I did not. So first of all, I'm glad you brought that up. Sorry if I misspoke or led you down a path that's not true. So everything's been very hard for me. Mm-hmm. And this is kind of why I'm doing a podcast because I want to try to speak– well, the first thing I do, I speak truth to power. For 25 years, I couldn't really talk because of the Hatch Act, and I'm so tired of not being able to talk. So I want to speak truth to power. And it's sort of cathartic too, right? And then– I think resiliency and perseverance are things that are kind of lost. It's easy to lose this day and age. You can get defeated very easily with the world that we live in. And so I want to help people without sounding completely weird, cliche. Self-help. Yeah, but I want to help people. I really want to help people. Yeah. it was very hard. I took the treasury exam back then. It was called the treasury exam because secret service was under the department of treasury, which we should have never left. But, but 43, that's a whole nother episode, but Bush, you know, he created DHS. And so he put us over, I think he put us over there for some credibility, which whatever. So we took the treasury exam, which I did not pass, um, a lot of math, you know, and stuff. It was very hard. At least for me, it was hard. And, um, So they said you could reapply in a year. So I had to wait a whole year. Wow. So I could have probably been on the job a year earlier, but I didn't pass the test. I was pretty squeaky clean back then, and I felt like I would make it through the process, but I got to pass this big hurdle. So I took the Treasury exam, did not pass it, waited one whole year. Back then, we had to buy books, believe it or not, for you young people. I didn't have a computer, but there was no internet. So I went and got a book. The guy that was over the hiring department said, hey, go get this book and do math for a year. I got a tutor, a couple of tutor sessions, and I did some math, worked on this workbook, and I passed it the next time. But I had to wait a whole year. So I got into the Secret Service in December of 97. But it was a two-and-a-half-year process. It was a two-and-a-half-year process. I had applied with a secret service before I was ever even a police officer. I hadn't even gotten my police officer job when I had applied with a service. Interesting. It took a while. So

SPEAKER_01: 20:41

you passed the test, and you're saying two and a half years from after the test?

SPEAKER_00: 20:46

So a year and a half. So I took the—applied, applied, get the test packet, don't pass it. Don't pass it, yeah. So then a year goes by. So then— a year and a half after you took the test, it was still a long process. So my process should have been a year and a half, but it was two and a half. Two and a half because of the added year. Because it had to wait. Yeah, that's about right. Mine was almost two total, even passing it. Yeah. It's a lot different now. They've kind of sped it up a little bit, but I also think they might have lowered the standard a little bit. I hope not. I hope we get into that a little later in the episode. Well, I hope

SPEAKER_01: 21:24

they haven't. I think we share the same feeling there. All right, so you're going through your career. You're five or six years in Charlotte. What happens then? What did you want to do? Did you get

SPEAKER_00: 21:37

what you wanted to do? I did get what I wanted, and I had a very– Transparent conversation with my wife. I had worked really hard. I've always had to work hard, which I don't feel sorry for myself. It is what it is. Things just haven't come easy, and I've had to work hard, and I think that's what makes me appreciate the things that I have. And so I told my wife, I've worked my ass off down here, and I led the all-center red. I mean, I was locking people up left and right, and I said, if they don't give me what I want, because it's very political, as you know. It can be political. like sheriff's departments can be political. Police departments aren't as political because it's not elected. I mean, there's always politics in everything, but like elected positions are political. Well, the Secret Service is like a macrocosm of that. And it's not always, you know, it's not always, you know, there's some nepotism sometimes. Not always, but... I'm like, if they try to send me to somewhere I don't want to go, I'm probably going to go back to the police department. Are you okay with being poor? She's like, yeah. Wow. So, I mean, I'm just being honest. Like, I was like, and I don't know if I would have done that, but I probably would have. I'm pretty headstrong. You know what I mean? Like, I made it very clear. I want to be on the counter-assault team. And the only way to get to the counter-assault team is to go through PPD, which is the president's detail. So you wanted CAT. You knew you wanted CAT. I was CAT or bust. Okay, okay. That's what I wanted. Yeah. And so it worked out. So they said, oh, you're going to go to PPD, president's detail. I'm like, perfect. And then I got there. And, of course, you don't just go right to CAT. I was there for almost two years before I got to try out. Wow. Doing what kind of stuff? Shift work. So when you asked earlier, I think you asked, do you work– POTUS all the time. The answer is no. So when you go to POTUS, President of the United States, right? So when you go to the detail, you get assigned, as a junior agent, you get assigned to, like, back then, I'm not sure who's in there. Like, you got the National Security Advisor. You got the Chief of Staff. I don't really think the Chief of Staff should have protection, but they do, whatever. So I got Andy Card's detail. So I worked Bush for six or seven months, like, as a working shift agent, you know, like the close protection stuff, you know, that people call bodyguards. They're not bodyguards. We do not like the term bodyguard, but that's what the people think. But like the close protection stuff. I was a junior agent, so a lot of time, you know, I was hanging out with the press because there's always an agent with the press. Ever since Reagan got shot, they have a press agent, right? So a lot of times you're working the press or you might be working the number four guy, so you're kind of low, man. And I did that for a while. Then I went to Andy Card's detail. Cause it's like called a satellite. It's like a sub satellite. And then you get to go to your satellite, which is transportation section or the first lady section or the counter surveillance section or the counter assault team. And so you kind of, it's building blocks.

SPEAKER_01: 24:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:28

They don't just throw you to the wolves cause it's, there's a lot going on. Yeah. So Andy card, I have a

SPEAKER_01: 24:32

couple, three or four cards upstairs from him that he actually signed it in blue actually was his favorite color. Funny cause I'm holding a blue pen, but he would come in during the holiday season during the Christmas season. He would come in like two hours early before the start of his shift and hand sign

SPEAKER_00: 24:49

these cards for every single support at the White House. He's a really good guy. I liked him a lot. Yeah. Which is cool. He was really nice. Funny story about that is, so Andy Card is the chief of scores. Bush, whether you agreed with Bush's, I think I probably agreed with his politics more back then than I do now, but your Secret Service, you don't care. You compartmentalize. And that's one thing I do say about the Secret Service is guys are pretty good about compartmentalizing.

UNKNOWN: 25:13

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 25:14

One of my dearest friends was a big liberal, but I know he didn't vote for Bush, but he went and did his job every day just like I did. It is what it is. You compartmentalize, and that's what makes us, I think, set apart. So good men and women over there. So Andy Card was such a hard charger because Bush was a hard charger. Bush would literally be in the Oval at 6 in the morning. At 6 a.m., he was in the Oval. Well, that meant Andy had to be at work. Mr. Carl, I should say, at probably 5.30. So the Secret Service calls it pushes. You probably remember that term, your push, right? So it's just your shift change. It's usually 6, 2, and 10, but then, of course, you've got to build in time for the brief, so it's 30 minutes. So normally guys work at 5.30. If your shift starts at 6, you're going to show up at 5.30. Well, we were having to push at 5.00. To get him across to the house. Yep. So that means you had to be at work at 4. It just kept backing up. So day shift was brutal because you're like, it's the middle of the night. You're getting up at 3, 3 or 4 in the morning to go to day shift. I'm like, what? I'd rather work at midnight. Yeah, right. Day shift was terrible.

SPEAKER_01: 26:25

I remember some of the nights sitting on the back, whether it was the beginning, like you said, of a very early morning shift, day shift, or I did some midnights in order to save some hours going on a trip and stuff like that. But some of my favorite times were when George W., would come out and play back and forth with Barney. Oh, yeah. But the amount of time, like his schedule, I remember, 5.58, 6.02, 6.04, 6.06.

SPEAKER_00: 26:59

He was like clockwork. It's unbelievable. Some of my fondest memories... As a shift agent, and I'm not going to talk about tradecraft on here because you know that. I don't want to try to go to prison. I'm not going to talk about numbers or kind of like some of the nuance-y stuff. But it's not. What I'm about to say is not a secret. Like, if he's going from point A to point B, he's going to have guys with him. Right? That's pretty obvious. Everywhere. I would never want to be president because you're never alone. I don't know how the guy even comes up for air for one second by himself. I mean, never alone. So... Depending on what post you're on, and you know, you remember the post. Like, whatever post you're on, if he came down on the elevator, you led him over, or you trailed, or you whatever, right? So, like, if you were on, I'm not going to say the post numbers, but, like, if you were on post X, and you were the, okay, well, I'm on post X, and I know he's coming out. Like, you'd have to constantly war game. Okay, if I'm on this post when he comes out, I'm going to do this. And we had a little cheat sheet. You know what I mean? Because you want it to be, it's choreographed. It's completely choreographed. Especially, it's very sterile environments. But you don't, You don't want to do anything to upset the apple cart. So, and it's depending on your shift leader, like your shift, like your shift leader will make or break you. Like if you do something to piss him off, you're not working again. You know, it's like, so like this first guy had was a very anal retentive and I was like, ah, I'm scared to death, you know? So I want to make sure a little cheat sheet. So if I'm on this post, I do this on this post, I do that. So I love getting to lead him over. in the mornings, especially in the wintertime. He'd come out with his big old cowboy hat on and his overcoat, and he'd be outside. The thing I liked about him was he didn't make the guy. Now, the other guy would take Barney out, but like Bush would take him. Dale. Dale, that's right. I love Dale. But Bush would take him out to let him go to the bathroom like any other normal guy, and he'd take him out in the yard, he'd do his thing, and he'd go to the oval. Well, in the wintertime, he'd have his big coat on, his cowboy hat, It's cold as crap, you know, in January. And you'd lead him over and you'd walk through the oval. because you open the door for him. He didn't have a key to the place. We'd do everything. You'd open the door, and you'd get to walk through the oval to get out of the way, and they'd have a nice fire roaring in there. I remember that. I was like, man. It's like it's O Dark 100. This dude's sitting at his desk getting after it. I know. Were there times that you've spoken to him without him first speaking to you? I never spoke to him first. First of all, I didn't. The thing I liked about Bush, and we're just talking about as a human, not a politics, right? Like as a human being. I like the fact that he's pretty cocky, which I kind of like because type A personality, he's a ball buster. He really was. Very confident, but cocky, really. I liked it. He was very, it's hard to explain, but just a man, a guy's guy, really. And, you know, he would say something to you, I would respond. I think he probably knew most of us by face. He never knew my name. I wasn't a boss, but I think he knew my face. But one morning, it was early. it must have been summertime because he was dressed in like, he had on, it was funny, I'll never forget. I mean, he came out, I hope this is okay to tell. Like, he's sitting president, right, by the way. He came out and he had bed head. Man, his hair was everywhere, you know what I mean? And he was wearing a shirt, t-shirt that said Myrtle Beach. And I was like, that's where I grew up, going to Myrtle Beach, man. And he was taking the dog out to pee at like four in the morning. And I'm like, why is this man not asleep and let somebody else, I mean, you're the president, I would have somebody doing that for me. Right. And he's just like, and he said something to me. He mumbled something I don't really remember. And I'll never forget going, I'm in the elevator with the leader of the free world, and he looks just like I do when I wake up.

UNKNOWN: 30:43

It was great.

SPEAKER_01: 30:45

That's

SPEAKER_00: 30:46

awesome. And I was like, oh, Myrtle Beach or something. I forget what I said. And he's like, oh, yeah, Jenna got me this T-shirt or something. He probably didn't even know what it said. He's wearing a Myrtle Beach, dirty Myrtle. So he was. I mean, is it that real where he just goes down, lets the dog out, comes back up, goes back to sleep? A lot of times he wouldn't say, you know, he's just like anybody at five in the morning. He's tired, you know, but like sometimes, you know, some days we're in better moods than others. Like he didn't always, like he would, he would talk to like. I don't know. They're not called butlers. You know what I'm talking about. Like the guys in the tuxedos. I forget what they call them. Like the concierge type guy. Clarence. Yeah, yeah, I do. But he was very friendly to those guys. And sometimes he would say stuff. But, I mean, you know, we're there to work. We're not there to be their buddy. You know, I'm assuming that if you're the detail leader or the number two guy, he probably, I know he knows those guys by name. Yeah. Hey, Joe. Hey, you know, whoever. Oh, yeah, very

SPEAKER_01: 31:42

close. Yeah, very

SPEAKER_00: 31:43

intimate. Nick or whatever. You know, I get that. But, like, for their little worker bee. It was more of just being in proximity to hear him. And he would, you know, he's got that funny little laugh. Oh yeah. It's just, I could hear it. It's great. I just always

SPEAKER_01: 31:57

enjoyed it. That's neat. Yeah. So you go, you're, you're still, you want to get on cat. You're with Andy card. You have to do your two years. Then what you have to apply to cat.

SPEAKER_00: 32:09

You just make it known. So it's like, you're coming up on your time. Everything's kind of, revolves around time it's time charts right so you've done this time to do something else because they're building you up like they're not just going to throw you to the wolves and say hey you're going to chicago to do the lead advance you'd be like what you start off doing small stuff so the same thing with the ship work is so advanced work is one part of it and then the ship work is a different part um so like hey what do you want to do well A lot of people want to go to First Lady Detail because they, you know, FLD. We jokingly referred to that as fine living and dining because they were, you know, all those guys were the ones wearing the cufflinks and riding on her airplane, eating off of fine china. Meanwhile, I'm on a C5 going somewhere. But it's just personalities, right? And you don't necessarily get to do what you want to do. And everybody can't, like I had no desire to drive the cars. Like driving the car would probably be fun. But it'd also be stressful. And I don't think, I just didn't want to, I just, I'm like, I don't want to be responsible for driving. I'm a pretty good shooter. I'm pretty fit. I think CAT's a better fit for me. Or CSU, which I did both, right? So I didn't really want to go to FLD because I just, that just wasn't my thing. And I didn't want to drive the car. So I'm like, okay, I'm kind of pigeonholing myself here. But that's what I'm good at. That's what I like doing. So that, you know, and I did get to do, so you basically just tell your boss, hey, I want to do this. That's what I– one, two, and three, you kind of get your– you don't always get your preference. But you try to– a lot of it's got to do with timing and manpower, if I'm being honest. I mean, sometimes you don't get what you want because there's not space. So the thing with Cat is the guys, you know, they needed bodies. And a lot of guys didn't want to do it. A lot of guys couldn't do it. And so it was never a problem to get a tryout. And so I tried out, and I didn't make it the first time either. So we can talk about that. What does that look like? So I went to Cat. What do you call it? The– assessment, the counter assault team assessment made it through the assessment. It's heavy PT, heavy PT oriented thing. And then you got to make, so for people that don't know qualifications for secret service, uh, agents are 70 you got to be able to shoot 70 or higher which i think's a little low but whatever so you got to shoot 70 or higher for any specialty unit you have to shoot 90 or higher if you can't shoot 90 you're out and you were talking about on the course yeah pistol and pistol and shoulder weapons yep and you shoot the pistol out to 50 yards which is pretty far for a pistol regular guys shoot 25 yards which 25 is pretty far too with the pistol but 50 yards with a pistol, that's a pretty good poke.

SPEAKER_01: 34:50

So what hung you

SPEAKER_00: 34:52

up? So there's a course called the Tactical Firearms Course, and it's a combination of physical fitness, and then you have like– and I'm trying to remember, man. This was like 03, 04. You have to do– You have to do– of course, you're kitted up. You're wearing like 45 pounds of gear plus your rifle. So you have to be able to do three pull-ups, which doesn't sound hard, but with all that gear, three– Yeah, with 50 pounds of gear on. And they're very strict. You have to get your chin over the bar and dead hang, none of this kipping stuff. You have to be able to do three kitted pull-ups. As soon as your feet hit the ground, I think you get four minutes, and you run a quarter mile, and then you shoot a course. And you got to shoot 90%. With no break in between. No, no, you're huffing and puffing pretty good. And it's hard to shoot when you're, you know what I mean? I encourage anybody out there to try it. So it's very challenging. Brutal. Yeah, it was hard. And so it's called the Tactical Firearms Course. At least it was then. And so I shot it. And, of course, you don't know how much time has passed. You know what I mean? You know you have four minutes. You do these pull-ups. You run a quarter mile. Yeah. And then you shoot this course of fire with your rifle and your pistol. And it's moving around. It's not... Oh, pull. Oh, yeah. It's not static. You start here, and then you run here, and you run here. It's very... But long and short. Yeah. And you start off far, and you end up at the, I don't know, 7 or 10-yard line. I don't know. Pretty close. And then you finish off with a pistol. Well, like a dummy, I just shot really fast. I threw a bunch of rounds. And so... I was like, oh, man, I saw that. I'm like, I'm going to have to do it. They give you two chances. So I think a lot of guys make it the first time. Some guys don't. So you get a second. Of course, now you've got to do the whole thing. It's much easier to just do it the first time. A lot of it's got to do with it's a head game thing, too. It's psychological. So like, okay, dummy, you shouldn't have done this right the first time. So now I've got to go. And the second time, it was way harder because you're already gassed.

SPEAKER_01: 36:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:53

I go through the second time, and I slow way down. I'm like, okay, I got this. I shot slower. You know what I mean? But I missed it by one round. So I had more. I just barely missed. So I shot. Most courses of fire with Secret Service are 300. They scored on a 300. This course of fire, for whatever reason, was a 200. So you needed to shoot a 180. 180 out of 290%. I shot a 178. I missed it by– I'm like, isn't that one touching right there? And he's like, nope. And so they only give you two chances. Wow. And so there was 12 guys that went to class, and two of us washed out. And, man, I was devastated. And so the other guy elected did not come back through. We both got invited back because we had good attitudes or whatever. You know what I mean? And so I– He elected to not come back. I elected to go back. And then, like, that was in, I think that was in maybe, like, May. I think that was, like, maybe, like, April or May of 2004. And then I went back in, like, September, October.

SPEAKER_01: 38:05

So

SPEAKER_00: 38:05

six months. So I had to wait. And, man, I was embarrassed. Sure. just disappointed, all the things. Cause you think you're the only one, you know, it's like, then when you get on cat, you're like half the freaking guys there had to go to, you know, you think you're the only one, like no one says, how many times did it take you? You just made it, you know, who cares, you know? But at the time, you know, when you're, you see these guys doing this thing you want to do and you're so close, but yet you're so far away. I was just like, I was in a funk for a few months. Yeah. But, I believe that everything happens for a reason, and I won't get into it because it's not my story to tell, but my buddy John that I interviewed on my second podcast, I personally believe he was going through some stuff, and so I ended up going through his class with him because if I'd have made it, I would have been on. And John and I were buddies, but we became really tight during that six weeks, and I just believe it was meant to be. You know what I mean? I think everything happens for a reason, so John and I's relationship, went next level we're like he's one of my very best friends he's the guy you want your sister to marry you know how like nobody's good enough for your sister type yeah thing yeah this is the guy you want your sister to marry because he's just a good dude and so i i'm at the time it sucked yeah but in hindsight you look back oh that's okay this was ordained because we needed to help each other and anyway that's neat it was cool would you so you What do you do in that

SPEAKER_01: 39:35

meantime then? You just

SPEAKER_00: 39:36

go back to your old

SPEAKER_01: 39:37

position?

SPEAKER_00: 39:38

I guess I was back on cards detail. I can't remember. I think I was back on cards detail. Okay. Yeah. What's a day in the life of

SPEAKER_01: 39:45

somebody like Andy Card? Do you go to his house after he's done working or do you just meet him at the White

SPEAKER_00: 39:50

House? So you're doing shift work. It depends. Good question. So if you're on day shift, you pick him up. And you take him, or you go, the midnight guys go home because they're just watching the house. They go home, and then you take him to work. Okay. And then the afternoon shift comes to the White House and then takes him home. And then takes him home. And, of course, there's a lot of logistics I won't bore you with, shuffling the cars and all this stuff. But, like, there's a lot of logistics going to it, you know what I mean, that you don't think about. Like, I drove my car to his house, so those guys have to drive to his house. get my car, drive to the White House. You know what I mean? Wow. It gets very nuance-y.

SPEAKER_01: 40:26

When

SPEAKER_00: 40:26

he's at

SPEAKER_01: 40:27

home, him or anybody like that, just non-president, non-VP will say, what happens when they're at home

SPEAKER_00: 40:37

at night? Is there manpower there? Yes. I've got a great story to tell about this if you have time for it. We almost got burned up one night. It's great. Oh, my gosh. I forgot about this story. So we– It was like a construction trailer, like a small 10 by 20 construction trailer. I think it's what it was. It's what it looked like to me. You've got a phone and a computer and a refrigerator. It's very basic, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I could see his house. You've got to have eyes on, right? Sure. So it was like line of sight. So we're sitting there. It's a cul-de-sac. It was kind of a dog-led cul-de-sac, so it was perfect. So no one should really be coming down there unless they live there. So your spidey senses would go up pretty easily. It's like, hey, and then you would check them out, and they would– This was way back before Uber and all that stuff. Uber Eats. No one should really be coming down there, vehicular traffic-wise. So it was mostly you would learn the neighbor's cars and things like that. But, yeah, you'd sit there and watch his house overnight. One night we were sitting there. My buddy Jeff and I were sitting in there on midnights, and this pickup truck came down. The road. Kind of slow. Like, slower than normal. I mean, people have to go slow, but this was like two miles an hour slow. Too slow. This dude's up to no good. So we go out, and it was a construction-type truck, white guy. And I think he was drunk. I think he was drunk. I'm not sure. But he seemed like he wasn't very coherent. You know what I mean? He was on drugs. I think he was drinking. But I think what he was– he didn't know Andy Carr lived there. Now, I didn't know this at the time, but we found out later he didn't know anything. He just was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and he was looking to, you know how guys go around and steal stuff, like copper and all this stuff, right? He was looking to steal construction-type material because there was a construction trailer. He's like, oh, I'm going to go and break into this construction trailer. It's just petty theft, right? Well, he didn't know two Secret Service agents were sitting in there with MP5s or whatever. And so he comes up, and he was a real smartass right off the bat. I'm like, hey, how you doing? Of course, he didn't believe me. Because I'm dressed down. I'm not in a suit. I'm like, hey, Secret Service, can I help you? And he's like, yeah, right, right. Because it was over in Arlington or somewhere. I forget where Andy lived, but I think it was Arlington. And he was just a real jerk. This guy's up to no good. Oh, boy. And I'm like, okay, he's casing the joint. He didn't know to do it. Because it's 10 or 11 o'clock at night. He thought he was just going to break in and steal some stuff. I basically told him to kick rocks. And he was not. happy. So he left. I was like, man, that guy was a jerk. So we go back to watching TV and watching the house or whatever we're doing. And then a little while later, it wasn't long, it was like an hour, my buddy Jeff goes, dude, because we had a push car, you know, it was an old Crown Victoria, old hoopty, like a piece of crap. We didn't drive it much, but we had that for emergencies and stuff. He's like, man, is that car leaking gas?

UNKNOWN: 43:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 43:34

I'm like, probably, because it's a piece of crap. So we went out, and this is January, and it is butt cold. It's like 18 degrees, man. Yeah, yeah. And so we go out and look, because I thought the car was leaking gas. We're like, man, it smells like gas, bad. Like it stunk really bad. And then we started looking around, and there was gasoline had been poured all around the trailer. And that dude had gotten so mad at us that he had gone and left, and there was a park on the backside of the woods, and he had parked at the park and snuck up through the woods.

UNKNOWN: 44:03

Oh, my gosh.

SPEAKER_00: 44:04

And poured gas around that whole trailer and tried to light them. The only reason, it was so cold. It was spitting snow a little bit. Yeah. And it just didn't. Plus, I think he was drunk. So he couldn't get it to light. And so we're like, holy crap, we almost got burned up. But we had been complaining about not having enough lighting out there and cameras and stuff. And TSD, you know, Technical Security Division, is like, we couldn't. So after that, they put up. Proper lighting and cameras. I'm like, this joker snuck up behind us and could have killed us, man. Do you ever find him? Yeah, because I had taken... I tried to get his license. I'm trying to remember, man, so long ago. I don't think he gave me his license, but, of course, like any good cop, I took his tag down. Yeah. And we ran the tag. And they got him the next day. They arrested him. What did he get hit with there? Not what we wanted. We wanted, you know, like assault with a deadly weapon, intent to kill. He tried to burn us up. Right. He got some misdemeanor nonsense, but, you know.

UNKNOWN: 45:04

Oh, man.

SPEAKER_00: 45:04

It's a funny story. What a story. All right. At this time in your career, do you, are

SPEAKER_01: 45:10

you saying, I can't wait for the next cat test to come up or are you so frustrated and embarrassed that you're like, I'm not doing cat.

SPEAKER_00: 45:17

Oh no, no, no. I was, I was in it. Like I, you know, I got invited back the day I washed out. I got like, Hey, we'd like to have you back in the next class. Are you? Yes, sir. I'm in. I'm in. So I was just training, just trying to stay in shape. Yep. You know, cause I knew what I'd gotten halfway through the program or so. So yeah. I kind of knew what to expect. So no, I was... I wasn't that funky. I was just, at first I was like, I was disappointed. Yeah. But I mean, I got over it. Like I'm going, I'm going to like, there is no plan B. Like this is going to happen. It just didn't happen the first time, but this is going to happen. Yeah. So I was good with it. That's awesome. Yeah. So then let's fast forward up to the test again. So go through, pass it with flying colors this time. Cause I kind of knew what to expect. And I don't remember what I shot, but like I did well and it made it through the course. I'm like, if I can just get, cause that was a big hurdle, right? The tactical, that's a big hurdle. And I think, I think they did it at the end of the second week or something. Of course, the CAP program continued to grow. Once upon a time, it was like four weeks long. Then it went to five weeks. I'm like, when I went through the first time, it was a five-week program, and now it was a six-week. So I cost myself an extra week. So it's like, you know, it's a building block. I knew if I could just get– so that's the first major hurdle is being able to get through the assessment. Yeah. Can you do the PT? Can you do the shooting? If you can't, then we'll get you trained up. Then the next big hurdle is this tactical firearms course. Pass that, and then you're kind of– I wouldn't say easy street, but as long as you're paying attention, you're going to be fine until you get to CQB, close quarters battle, or I think they call it CQC now, close quarters combat, because you have to– you build up to live fire. And if they feel like you're unsafe, because they have a nice shoot house, and if you're not safe enough to do the live fire, then you're out. Wow. And that's very subjective. So I think that's also kind of a litmus test that they can, because a lot of it is you have to be a good operator, you know, tactically, you have to be a good tactician and all that stuff, but you also have to have the right, you have to be able to sit in a truck with four or five other dudes and get along. And if you're kind of a D bag, you know what I mean? Yeah. And there are some for sure. Yeah. I think they use a CQB as a way of weed. Like, Oh, I don't think this guy, this guy's not a good fit. Now. I can't prove that smart. I can't prove that. That's just in my mind. That's kind of, but you do have to be safe too. Right. So if you're going to, if we're going to clear this room and we're really shooting bullets and We need to make sure we can do it. Yeah. So, but I felt like, cause you get a lot of practice, you go through with blanks and Sims and all this stuff and you, you know, you ramp up to it. So I felt like I, you know, am I still team six guy? Heck no. But, but it's like, I felt like I must, I could, I felt like I could do it. Yeah. And we did. You didn't really lose too many people. Once in a while, you'd lose a guy. Yeah. But he's like, he's kind of a jerk. He should go anyway, yeah. Safety problem. So way back in

SPEAKER_01: 48:18

episode one and then episode 30, I had a retired Secret Service agent on who... I've come to learn that you're very, not just friends with, but very good friends with Derek Lyman. So I don't know your story, how you guys met. And I sort of didn't want to hear it until today to see how it fit in. So now we're at Cat. Now you're at the next test. Did you know Derek up until now?

SPEAKER_00: 48:41

I knew him. I knew him, right? Knew who he was. And we'd cross paths back in the day. Because he was from Atlanta and I was from Charlotte, so kind of regionally stand and post together. But he was a little bit ahead of me, a year or two ahead of me. So I knew he was on cat team. And by the time I got there, he was a team leader. He wasn't on my team. It's like– I don't know what it is now, but back then it was like– A, B, you know, squad A, B, C, and D. So there was like eight teams and there was two teams under a squad. So Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, and Delta. And so I was on Charlie's squad, which was team five and six. And he was the T.L., Sorry, Derek. He'll correct me if I'm wrong. I think Derek was the team leader for Team 5. Okay. And I was on Team 6. But we were under Charlie, you know, under that umbrella. So we could– because some guys are on leave and some guys are on advance. So you would mostly work with Team 5 and 6 like Team 1 and 2 would work together and 3 and 4. You know what I mean? Like occasionally I'd work with a Team 8 guy, but you don't get to know those guys as much because you're just– It's a different cycle. Like they're on midnights and you're on training and you're on days, you know, so you kind of work with the same group. So it's, you know, it's not a big outfit. I'll, you know, 60 guys, a hundred guys. I don't know what the number is. It's not a real big division, but you'd work with the same 15 or 20 people all the time. And so I got to know Derek real well. Yeah. So it was cat and you had a career together. Yeah. Like I said, he was a little ahead of me and then he, he, you know, he rotated out before I did because he had been there. You know what I mean? I think he did five or six years. over there yeah and then he left I don't think he went back to the shift I think he just stayed at Cat and then he went I guess he I think and when he left DC I think he came back down here to Atlanta to the

SPEAKER_01: 50:23

what is it called that Macon office oh yeah but it's a smaller not

SPEAKER_00: 50:27

a satellite like a resident office or domicile or something like that that's it yeah domicile and then he finished up his career I've got a cool picture with Derek I'll have to find it and send it to you he had rotated off and he was back in a business suit which we all hated and so we We came down and did an event. We did a cat thing somewhere down here. I can't remember. Probably Atlanta. Who knows? we took a picture. We were all still in our stuff, and then Derek was in his suit, but we let him sling up the rifle. He's standing in the business suit with a rifle on, which looked really weird, but it was fun. That's awesome. That's great. How many years did you do on CAT? Three. Okay, you do three. Is that

SPEAKER_01: 51:08

the normal?

SPEAKER_00: 51:08

No, it was kind of weird. So back before SOD was created, it was under a special program branch, which was under PPD, right? So it kind of got really... it sounds weird, but like, you know, a division's bigger than a unit, you know what I mean? And so it just grew. And so, uh, when you, when it was special programs branch under that branch, you had the counter sniper guys, you had the emergency response team guys, the, uh, the uniform division guys, you know, the canine, the mags, all the specialty units. And then the counter assault team was the only like agent element to that. Most of it was uniform division. And then you had the agent stuff, but, um, That was like an 18-month assignment back then. Yeah. And then, of course, in 18 months, you're just now getting good at your job. Right. But once it became Special Operations Division, it was like a three- to five-year commitment. So I went from doing 18 months to three years, which was fine with me. And in hindsight, you know, I might've, you know, stayed a little bit longer, but you know, three years was good. Some of my guys like Derek did, I think he did five or six years. He did maybe seven. He did a long time. He did even. Yeah. And I think one of the things I think the secret service gets wrong, like the HRT guys, the hostage rescue team for the FBI, they're real squared away dudes too, you know? And, and, Listen, as long as you can do the PT, as long as you can do the shooting, you can stay. Five, seven, 10, 12. That's your skill set. Why in the world would you make a guy that's good at that go do a computer stuff? I can barely email. That he hates and wants nothing to do with it. Why are we doing this? We're going to make you well-rounded. You're like... Right. I don't want to be well-rounded. I don't want to be well-rounded. I'm one-dimensional.

SPEAKER_01: 52:58

I love it. All right. At that point in your career... If somebody walked up to you and said, hey, I'm thinking about doing Secret Service, would you have said, eh,

SPEAKER_00: 53:05

stay away, or did you love it? Just right there. Yeah, I would have said, for sure. Eight or nine years at that point? Eight or nine years? Yeah. Did you love it? I did. I did try to walk away from the job a few times, which we haven't talked about. I don't know why, at that time, I felt like the Lord was calling me in a different direction. I literally... tried to go to Chick-fil-A. I wanted to make money, man. And I was like, I'm going to be an owner-operator. Anybody knows about the Chick-fil-A model? You know what I'm talking about. It's an owner-operator. They are making money. And so that's where I really thought my next thing was going to be. It wasn't. It wasn't. But I tried twice with Chick-fil-A, swing and a miss. No problem. I'm like, well, okay. I'm where I'm supposed to be. Yeah. So I did that around that time frame. I can't really remember. Like, you know, I'd probably say eight or nine years on the job, 10 years on the job. And then I tried to go to the CIA. I wanted to go to the agency because I had some exposure working with those guys when I was in London. And, of course, my trips to Afghanistan. And I really– and now the GWAT's really in full– you know what I mean? global war on terror, you know, like full, full, full steam ahead. And I'm like, man, I've got this skillset. I'm not, you know, an 18 or 19 year old kid that can go through buds. I'm not going to make that. And I'm too old anyway. And I don't want to be like, what, how can I do that without being in the army or the Navy? Yeah. Oh, the CIA has paramilitary, you know, and I had worked with him. So that's where I kind of, wanted to get to um which funny enough i applied with him three times over the course of 10 years because when you're living overseas that you can't apply so i was living uh in london yeah uh and i worked with them on a daily weekly basis i'd go downstairs and read cables and threat cables and about protectees and whatnot so i got to know some of the the people there and um the station chief there was a guy who'd been a station chief in Kabul, and I remembered him from my Afghanistan time. And he had also used to run SAD, which I don't know what they call it now, the Special Activities Division, which is like their high-speed ground branch guys, if people know about that. It's like they pull from all the, like, the Delta guys and the Dev Group guys. It's the all-stars. It's the all-stars of all-stars. And I didn't have the prerequisites. I wasn't even in the military, much less Special Forces, so I knew that wasn't really an opportunity for me. But GRS was, Global Response Staff. And so that's what I was trying to do. And I thought, well, maybe I'll weasel my way in. You know what I mean? That was my ultimate goal, and I didn't think that it would ever happen. But you don't know. If you don't ask, it's already know, right? And the GRS guys are squared away, too. So I was like... That's where I'm going. And so three attempts, 10 years, two no's, one yes. I finally got an offer. They're like, yeah, we'll take you. I went through the whole process. It was like my fifth polygraph. I'd have a bunch of polygraphs. I went through the polygraph. The agency polygraph was no fun. It's worse than the service by far. It's worse. I hate it, dude. I hated it. Come on. You know, polygraphs suck, but I think I had done like five in my life. But anyway, got through it, got the offer, and then I got promoted. I'm like, Lord, you have a sense of humor. I got promoted the day before the offer. You're kidding. I got a FedEx package in the mail with the offer letter in it in 2016. I had just gotten– I had 19 years on the job with a service, and I had– I've been trying to get promoted for a while, and I got promoted finally, and the next day I got my offer letter from the agency. To what?

SPEAKER_01: 56:59

What did you get promoted to in the secret

SPEAKER_00: 57:01

service? GS-14 on presidency. So Trump had just gotten elected in 2016, and I had gotten– I had put in for a spot that I just– I'm like, I'd been told no so many times. I had 87 no's. Brother, I had been trying to get promoted for nine years, and it just didn't happen. Yeah. Talk about thick skin. Like, I got it. And so I had been told no 87 times. I'm like, well, this is just going to be another no. I'm going to bid on PPD New York because they're standing up. Trump just got elected. His family lives in New York. They're going to pick New Yorkers. You're going to New York, yeah. And I got it. Al Story, my buddy, got it. The guy that I told you, the Georgia guy that you should interview. Yeah. Al got assigned to Don Jr., and I got assigned to Eric. I'm like, holy crap, I got promoted, and I'm moving to New York. It was really weird. On Eric Trump's detail. Who, by the way, is awesome. But we'll talk about that later if you want to. But that's why I turned the CIA down, because I'm like, I finally got a promotion. Wow. And it gets really nerdy talk with the money stuff. They're not law enforcement, right? The agency is not law enforcement. So the retirement program was there. I was going to take a pay cut, which I was okay with, but they had offered me like a 12 step five. And I had been like a 13, 10, like I was making good money. I was going to take a big pay cut, but then I got another pay bump. We're talking massive. Like I was going to have to go backwards, two major steps backwards. And I'm like, well, I can do that financially because the danger pay and all the stuff, right? Financially, the money's not going to be much different. The problem was the retirement. And I was within five years of retirement, and I was going to have to work 10. I'm like, I don't want to be doing this when I'm 50. So it wouldn't translate over? No, because I was 45 years old. I'm like, I can retire at 50, or if I go there, I've got to work until I'm 55. And being like war zone, I'm like, I'm a little old for that. So it was hard, like ego-wise, it was very hard to turn down. Wow. What was... What was a crazy question on one of those polygraphs? Oh, I can only imagine. I don't, I don't know. You said it's harder than secret service polygraph. I think it was. I mean, they were both hard. Yeah. Um, I mean, like a lot, some of it's just weird and mundane. Like the national security stuff. Do you remember the animal stuff? That was just huge when I went through. Like bestiality type stuff? Yeah. Do you remember how long they spent so long on the program? I don't remember, man. I've had five or eight. I don't really remember. But I mean, it was just like the lifestyle questions are weird. And then like the... The espionage. I mean, listen, man, that was easy because it's like, no. Did you ever walk out of one going, I aced it? No, I don't think I ever felt that way. The exact opposite, right? But I was always honest. I mean, you're not going to beat it. You just have to tell the truth and hope that what you tell them is okay. But going in and see when I went, when I did

SPEAKER_01: 59:59

mine, I never spoke to anybody. I didn't know anybody on the job. I didn't speak to them about like, what was your experience with the polygraph?

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:07

So I didn't know what to expect. And then you go in, you get brutalized for four hours. I think mine was even over four, four and a half hours. And then you come out and you're like, okay, well I got to find a different career because there's no chance. But then you hear everybody has that experience. Well, I think I failed it for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:24

Yeah. Well, I can remember my, my, polygraphed with the service, the guy, you know, listen, I'm 20 something years old. I don't, you know, it's a mind game, you know? And he's like, well, cause I had been a cop. So he was really harping on like integrity and like testifying in court. And have you ever lied? I'm like, man, I don't think I've lied in court. Like, I don't think I would do that. So, but like, he's like, well, there's something showing your integrity. I'm like, man, I, I mean, I've been a, listen, I've been a police officer for two years. Most of my stuff is like, My biggest thing is DWI. These aren't crimes of the century. I'm not going to get on the stand and lie, but then you start second-guessing yourself. Did I lie? They're showing some deception here. I think he was just trying to get me to confess to something I hadn't done. That's it. I was like, dude, I don't know what you're talking about. I've been a police officer in a small town for two years. I take stolen bicycle reports. And I pull over cars for speeding and write DWI. I'm not, you know, solving the world's crimes over here. So, I mean, I think it was just a test. Yeah, that's what they do. But I was like flustered. Oh, it was brutal. I remember sweating. It was awful. Do you remember when you went through, do you happen to remember what the drug policy was? I mean, I feel like it was stricter then. I've never done any drugs, by the way. I have, which most people, I'll never forget when I went to London my boss was like I don't know how he brought it up but one day he said if anybody ever says they've never smoked marijuana I know they're a liar so I'm like well I've never smoked marijuana I've done plenty like I've done plenty of other stupid crap but I have a very addictive personality so like I was scared I would like it, you know, and I would be, I knew I wanted to be Secret Service agent. I just thought you probably had a zero tolerance. You know, I didn't know. Like, that's why I never tried cocaine because I was afraid I would like it. And it's super expensive and I didn't have any money. So I'm like, well, I can't afford cocaine and marijuana is probably something that. So I just never did it. But trust me, I've done a lot of other stupid crap. But that was just one thing I never did because I just knew myself. And I just thought that the Secret Service, I guess I held them on a pedestal. Because people are human. People make mistakes, right? And so I think it was super strict back then. I know now they're still big on steroids. We washed a guy out back when I was in the Wilmington office. who admitted he was like a SF guy, real good candidate, but he had taken a cycle. It's like within the last six months, I'm like, dude, really? That's not that big of a deal. What's SF? Like Special Forces for Green Beret. I'm like, dude, come on, man. This guy's a great candidate. Whoop-dee-doo. But they're like, well, if it was six months from now, I'm like, you got it, man. Whoever writes these policies, to me, If you're doing cocaine or meth, you should probably be out. I did it 10 years ago or five years ago. I think a lot of it's got to do with the time. We asked this one guy, when's the last time you smoked weed? He said, on the way in here. And I'm like, this interview is over. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:48

And he was serious?

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:49

Well, he was honest. I appreciate it. He was like, I'm nervous, man. I'm like, you smoke weed on the way here? Yeah. I'm like, well, you're out. Move from CAF. You get the big announcement,

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:02

the

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:03

promotion. You're going to New York. You're not only going to

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:05

New

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:06

York. You're going to Eric Trump's detail.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:09

What's this all like? So, super scary.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:13

I'm always very careful how I couch this because I know there are as many people that love the Trumps. There's as many that hate them. And so, what I'm about to say has got nothing to do with Eric or the Trump family. It's got to do with the job itself, which I'm preaching to the choir with you. Right. I love it. But it's like... Being, in my humble opinion, and I know I'm biased because I did the job, but as a GS-14, you're an at-sac, right? You're like an entry assistant to the, you know, do you watch The Office?

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:39

Oh, assistant

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:40

to the region. Assistant. I'm like, this is so goofy. It is true. So you have the special agent in charge. Love it. You have the, in bigger offices, you have the D-sac, which is the deputy. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. Bigger offices, bigger layers. Special agent in charge, D-sac. Yeah. Number two guy, or three, two and three. Yeah. A-sac, right? Step in down a little bit assistant special agent charge and then you have the old act sack the assistant to the special agent not to be confused with the assistant to the regional manager so I'm like when I watched the office I'm like holy crap that's really true I lived it so anyway I love Dwight by the way he's my favorite character but um so I was the assistant to the special agent charge which is a little step down so you're you're basically you know a frontline supervisor and it is man you are balls to the wall you are big You have so much computer work to do administratively because you're running the schedule. You're running all the manpower. You're doing all the stuff. You're operational. You're busy. Now, a shift leader is in town. He or she's at the White House, and that is super hard. That is super hard because you're running a shift for POTUS, right? You're working the man every day. But guess what? You have an ops center. You have all the assets. You have all the things. You have all the toys.

UNKNOWN: 1:05:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:56

I'm not diminishing that. That is hard. I would say that's the hardest job in the Secret Service. However, comma, so is being a small detail detail leader. So I was considered a detail leader because I was a small detail, right? I was up in New York, away from all the assets. All the assets are in D.C. It's where the White House is. I'm in New York City running a detail with temps. Like I had no permanent people. I would have to email the shift. I need, I need, these are the, these are the manpower requirements that I need. Yeah. And they would send me, and it's a two week rotation. Now they couldn't always send me a guy for two weeks. Sometimes they would send me a guy for a week or sometimes they'd send me a guy for two weeks. So my schedule, if I needed 26 guys. Yeah. sometimes or 26 assignments or something. Like I might have 30 or 40 guys on my schedule because like you can, I can only send you Jeff for two a week. I can't send him to you for two weeks. And I didn't understand at that time. I will eventually later understand it when I'm running our surveillance unit. Cause two weeks is a big chunk of time to send, to be down a body. Yeah. And it used to make me mad. I was like, these jokers are just selfish. But I didn't realize until I actually had, okay, I get it. But it made your life really hard because I was me, and I had an assistant detail leader. I had a couple, ADLs, assistant detail leaders, and they would help me do stuff administratively and operationally. Because I'm the detail leader for Eric Trump, but then when President Trump signs an executive order that Laura's spouses get protection too because she's not blood, right? So Eric got protection, but then Laura, by executive order, got it. Well, I can't clone myself. If I'm with Eric in New York, how do I go to D.C. with Laura? So you have to have a number two or a number three, right? Right. And so those guys were temporary. Also, they're just rotating in. And then all your guys were temporary. I'm like, holy crap, it took me— I did that for 15 months. It took me that whole– almost a year to get– I built my detail up to about half. So they started bidding it out, and it was mostly New Yorkers that were leaving the field office. Like, oh, it's time for a go protection, so they would come over. So about half of my detail was permanent guys, which you wanted your own guys because they're your guys, and they're buying in. But some guys get sent to New York, and they love it, and then some guys are sent up there, and they hate it. So it's not always going to get– Somebody's best effort. Yeah. That didn't happen a lot. Right. But it does happen. Like somebody's pissed off their way from home for two weeks and they're working midnights in New York. They're not happy. You got to deal with a bunch of drama. So it can be hard. And then especially your operational. So it was just, it was a. It was the most challenging assignment I've ever had by far, not even close, but it was also the most rewarding because I got to know my protectees really well, and I'm sure the service didn't like that, but there's a human element to this. Sure there is. And when you spend that many hours with a human being, you're either going to gravitate toward each other or you're going to hate each other's guts. And Eric Trump is one, and I've told him this to his face multiple times. He knows it. one of the nicest human beings I've ever met. And this is what I never could, and I'm not trying to go political here, but what I never could really wrap my head around politics-wise is why people hate, I don't care if you like Trump or not, I really don't, but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree in any home. And if this guy's such a good dude... Is his dad that bad? Yeah. Now, he's a loudmouth New Yorker billionaire. What did you think? We're not electing the Pope. Like, what did you think we were getting? Who cares? Once upon a time, Hillary Clinton went to his wedding. He was the best thing since sliced bread. And then he put an R in front of his name. He's a villain. It's all fake. It's all fake. But anyway, aside from that, Eric is an amazing human being. Laura is too. Can I tell a quick funny story? Oh, please. So... My head's spinning. I'm freaked out. I've been trying to get promoted for nine years. I'm like, it's not going to happen. I'm not what the service is looking for. Bam, here you go, dummy. And so I'm like, careful what you wish for. So I find myself in New York. I go up, I get acclimated and try to meet them and work with them for about a week. Then the week leading up to the inauguration, you come back to D.C. and there's a bunch of training because it's all choreographed and everything. And then so January 20th happened, 2017. And... We're doing our thing. We're in town for a couple nights, and then we fly back to New York. Now, because it's such an interesting dynamic, you've got this president who is a billionaire from New York. He's now at the White House, but his wife is going back to New York with his younger son, however old. Barron was 10. I don't know how old he was, 10 years old or whatever. So he's going back to New York. So we flew on her airplane, not Air Force One, but the First Lady's aircraft, right? Because Trump... is now president. But his family's got to go back to New York because the party's over. So we go out to Andrews Air Force Base and it is a freaking goat rope. And so there's kids everywhere. There's people everywhere. There's cars everywhere. It's like, Al, I can't wait for you to introduce, for me to introduce you to Al. He was Don Jr.''s guy. He's got so many better stories because he It was like herding cats. He had five little kids running around. I had Eric and Laura. So it was totally different. It was wild. And so we get out to Andrews and we take off. And we're like, it's a short flight, what, 45? And so we're like decompressing for a minute. We're sitting beside it and we're like, ugh. I'm like, take our breath because it's getting ready to be on as soon as we land, it's on again. And we're going in dark, like legitimately and figuratively because we're landing at LaGuardia. at dark going to West. He's going to the city. I'm going to Westchester. I've never seen their house up there. You know, I don't know where we're going. I'm trusting that the guys waiting on me know what they're doing. Cause I don't know what we're doing. It's not a good way to do business by the way. So shame on the secret service for putting in the trick bag. But anyway, um, it is what it is. So, um, we, we were on the airplane. Um, and Laura, uh, She's not a protectee at this time because he's been in office a day. And he didn't make that. He hadn't done it yet. She's going to be, but she's not yet, right? So she's there. And so she's like, hey, Scott, can I see you at the back of the plane? I'm like, oh, what have I done? What have I freaking said? Because I've been with him for four or five days. I'm like. I probably said something out of pocket. I mean, that's just what I do. Sorry. What you see is what you get. Like, I don't really have a filter and I'm like, Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:43

So I go to the back of the plane and Eric's tall. He's six, five, you know, his big, he's kind of hunkered down at the back. He's tall. He's standing back at the plane and she's tall too. And, um, we're back there and, And then my boss, Neil Haggerty, comes back there. Oh, I said his name. Sorry, Neil. Neil H. Neil. Block that. Neil. Neil comes back there. And I love that guy. Anyway, we go to the back of the plane. I'm like, oh, man, I'm getting ready to get spanked. And she goes, I just want to let you know that we're pregnant. I'm like, do what? And she's like, yeah, we're pregnant. And I was like, okay. First of all, I was like, they're not mad at me. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. But then I'm like, then my brain goes like, okay, I got one protectee. I'm getting ready to have two. I'm getting ready to have three. What the heck? This thing just tripled in size and it's been. 24 hours. I was like completely overwhelmed, but I'm trying to like, Oh yeah, cool. No problem. I'm inside. I'm falling apart. What in the world is getting ready to happen to me? So that was crazy. And then we land at LaGuardia and everything was there. Good. And the other funny thing I want to talk about that trip was when we land, of course I have a protectee with his wife. Yeah. Pretty easy. I get my little two or three car motorcade. We're off. I look over my buddy, Al. is putting in car seats because they're little kids, man. And there's like, there's these secret service agents. Some have machine guns and some have car seats. I'm like, we are in uncharted territory, brother, because I had experienced this with the Bush girls and experienced this with the Obama girls, but they were High school. They were growing up a little bit, right? Right. High school and college. And they didn't have their own kids. They didn't have babies. These are babies. I think Chloe was like three or four. And I'm like, I looked over at Al. I'm like, bro, what have we done? He goes, I don't know what we've gotten ourself into. Because I'm from North Carolina, and he's from Georgia. You've got these two southern dudes living in a couple of fish out of water. I'm like, good luck, pal.

UNKNOWN: 1:14:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:51

And he's like, yeah, see you tomorrow. Maybe. It was crazy. Wow. It was wild. Car seat. And at the time, we were both, I think, legitimately freaking out. Like I was scared to death. But looking back on it, it's some of the best memories. Some of the best. It's

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:10

crazy. So, so, so cool. All right. So New York is, is, is Milani there?

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:18

Okay, so it's Melania, it's

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:20

Eric, it's Don Jr. Yep. Okay. And Ivanka. Well, no, Ivanka, she's still there, but she's moving to Georgetown, so she's going to be in D.C. So she'll be in D.C. Yep. Does this take you to New York? And Tiffany, too. There's also Tiffany that was Marla Maple's daughter. That's right. The second wife. But

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:38

she's not on the plane with you guys.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:40

No, because I think she was, I can't remember, but I think she was already in law school at Georgetown. Yeah. I think. Yeah, okay. So I don't think. I can't remember. She might have been. I don't remember. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:50

So you're new detail.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:51

There's so much going on, man. Yeah, it was just wild. You're in New York. I'm going to New York. There's all this stuff going on. But all I know is Eric's my guy. Yeah. and I'm worried about Eric and Laura, and I'm worried about everybody else. There's just a lot of white noise, and I'm freaking out, but I'm trying to be composed. I'm a secret service agent. Now I'm a supervisor. You've got to act like you know what you're doing. You fake it until you make it. I was like, what is happening to my life? So

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:15

were phones big bad? Where were we at in the phone era? Was it texting?

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:19

Was it still those old papers? No, this time I was iPhone. Okay. iPhone stuff. Now, I did have a– so I had my iPhone, but Secret Service had, like, the Samsung, whatever it was. Yeah. So I had two phones, of course, which was–

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:33

But you're texting. Like, we're texting.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:34

Texting a lot. Email. Well, a lot of texting, which was good. Do you

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:37

text with

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:37

your protector? Maybe. Like, are you allowed? Allowed. That's a funny word, allowed. I don't know what we're allowed to do, but I did. Because he didn't really– like, for example, put it this way. If you're– If I'm the special agent in charge of PPD and you're president, whoever, I'm not talking to you about your schedule. You've got two secretaries for that. Yeah, full-time. You've got the chief of staff. You have staff out the wazoo. That's where you get your information. Eric had an assistant, and I would get information from her. But then also, like, at night, it was like, what time are we, like– we leave and work. Like, are we going to dinner? Are you going home? Like, Hey, uh, he might just say, uh, on the way home, like I want to stop at restaurant X. So like, it's just easier for him to go direct to me. Then why tell Kim to tell me? Hmm. Makes sense. Hey, we're Hey, uh, tomorrow, like he might say, Hey, tomorrow, Saturday. So on the weekends they would go to Westchester cause they had a house in Westchester. I loved it up there, man. I love getting out of the city. He's like, Hey, um, he might text me. Um, we're going to go to, uh, we're going to go shooting tomorrow at nine o'clock in the morning. Nice. Okay. Cause there was a, he, he's a, they're very, uh, they're good shooters. Yeah. Um, the very good marksman and, um, Don does a lot of hunting, but they both, they're very good with shotguns and all kinds of guns. Like they like to go shooting clays and all the like skeet and all. So they had a range up there. It's like, Hey, we're going to go to, and I don't want to say the name of the range cause you could Google it, but like, Hey, we're going to go to our place. Yeah. And so it was just easier for him to communicate that with me. Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:18

Did they do... Well, actually, you had him and his wife, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:23

Yeah, and then Laura became executive director. So then, yeah. Yeah, so it was Eric and Laura, and then that was in January, and then Luke, baby Luke, wasn't born until September. Wow. And he was born on September 12th. Yeah. And she kept saying, oh, my gosh, I hope this kid isn't born on September 11th. And I was like, I hope he is. And she's like, heck no. And I'm like, no, that's a double-barrel middle finger to the bad guys. So anyway, he did come. Do you want to hear about that? Please. Yeah. This is a little dicey. I'll keep it very clean. Don't tell me you delivered a baby. No, God, no. Thank you, Jesus. I didn't do that. I have an apartment in Manhattan. Eric did his thing for the day, and then he was on this board at this range. He was on this board, and they had monthly meetings. I'm like, hey. At this point, I have a very good relationship with him. I talk to him. Like we're talking, he just down to earth and he'd bust my chops and I'd bust it. I mean, I think honestly, whether you're a politician or a movie star, these people, I think they really like it when people just treat them like normal. Yeah. I never kissed his butt. I never, I just, that's not my DNA. Dude, I don't want anything from you. I'm your guy. I think they really appreciate just cause they can tell when you're faking it. And I would talk to him. Not rough, but like I don't think people that are worth$200 million or whatever are used to hearing no a whole lot. And so there were things I would– and he was always very respectful. He would say, can I do this? Can I do that? I was like– and first of all, it feels weird for another grown man to ask me if he can drive himself to CVS.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:07

And I'm like, yeah. So I would do things I didn't really feel comfortable doing because he was just a cool guy. You know what I mean? Which is kind of off the subject, but just a really cool guy. But I would tell him no on some stuff. Like, we can't do that. And as long as I could articulate why he was good with it. But you can't say no without a reason. You've got to be able to articulate it, which is fair. So he had to go to this meeting. He didn't have to go. He was on the board at this. I'm like, hey, big man. That's why I call him a lot. Because he's tall, right? I would call him big man. I say, hey, big man. Yeah. You think you should go to this meeting tonight? You know, your wife's due. And he goes, ah, it's fine. And I'm like, brother, you should go to this meeting. Right. Murphy is going to get us. He's like, I'm good. I'm going to the meeting. Okay, bro. Oh, boy. So, like, I had worked him all day, right? So, my shift was over. Yes. I'm on my couch. trying to decompress. I never had much downtime, but I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to lay. I was watching The Sopranos. I'll never forget. I was laying on my couch in my apartment watching The Sopranos, and my AD, my number two guy, had him up in Westchester about an hour away. My phone rings, and it's my buddy Mike who's working Laura. As cool as a cucumber. I'm like, what's up, Mike? He's like, hey, Scott. I'm with Laura, which I knew. He said, and he threw so much at me so fast I couldn't process it because he was so cool. He wasn't ruffled or anything. That's why I had him working her because I knew he could handle it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:42

Because I can't be everywhere. And he said, hey, Scott, I'm with Laura. Her water just broke. I made her go into the bathroom at Panera and check and make sure. I'm like, wait. And I sat like, what? I immediately sat up off the couch. I'm like, what did you just say? He said, yeah, her water just broke. She thinks her water just broke, but I told her to go into the bathroom. I think he said Panera, some restaurant. Yeah, a restaurant. And we're at the corner of 5th and 60th or whatever. I was like, okay. And then I could hear her. She's like, yep, it broke. And I was like, okay, what are y'all doing? He goes, well, we're going to go back to the apartment. She's going to. Take a shower, change. I'm like, what? They're just so cool under pressure. And I'm like, okay, I guess I'll be over there in a minute. So I, of course, drop what I'm doing. I get dressed as fast as I can, get over there. And then, of course, we have to get Eric back from up north. Then we go to the hospital. So that was my baby Trump story. But I'll never forget Mike called me and said that, I couldn't process what he was saying about the bathroom. You know what I mean? It was like, Laura's water broke. Right. But I told her to go into the bathroom to make sure and we're at Potbelly's or whatever he said. I'm like, you're telling me too much, dude. Where are you? Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:04

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:05

It was great. Mike's the best. And he ended up leaving the job, and he got a big job in the private sector. So, Mike, if you ever watch this, I love you, buddy, because he was as cool as a cucumber. And then, of course, when Eric got back, I'm like, I told you, you big dummy, not to go up there. And sure enough, Murphy got you. So you get him back. You get to the birth. We get to the birth. We go to the hospital. Of course, that's 9-11. This is all going down on 9-11. And so she goes through the night, and she didn't have the baby. Of course, it takes a while to have babies most of the time, especially the first one. Especially the first one. And so it was the– I'll never forget. That was cool, man. I don't want to tell stories that aren't mine to tell, but I was part of it. I'm not trying to embarrass anybody, but I've watched three babies come into the world, and you have four of your own, right? So it's like I wasn't in the room, and I didn't want to be in the room, but I was in close enough proximity where you can hear what's going on. Oh, you know it. And I'm like, blast up. And I was like, oh. And so I'll never forget. You know, and she's a very tough woman, by the way. Laura Trump is as fit as a woman I've ever met. She was doing, like, soul cycling, all that stuff, flywheeling, all that stuff, even up to, like, nine months. Like, she's extremely fit. Yeah. And I can remember her coming out the next morning with the baby. She's getting real down the hall. She's like, sorry y'all had to hear all that screaming. I'm like, oh, I've been there, sister. It's good. And then she's like... Scott, that's the hardest thing I've ever done. I'm like, yeah, that's what I hear. Because she's like... extremely... When she works out, she pushes herself. She's not in there... She's almost like a CrossFit person. She's really getting after it. She's like, that's the hardest thing I've ever done. I'm like, yeah, I've seen it a couple times. It looks bad. This is great, man. This is so

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:50

cool. This is so much behind the scenes. Back to the opening where I said the careers are so different. Derek had an incredible, cool, wild, neat career. Nothing to do with being in a hospital to to have a protectee having a child yeah i mean this is wild yeah all right cool so it was good so we have luke luke comes into the world you're still on this detail are things starting to work out a little bit are you starting to like get

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:16

yeah i feel like i'm starting to get my sea legs you know it's like um this thing started in uh january it's now september i'm really starting to hit my groove i've got a you know i'm not i'm not 100 staff but like i've got I'd say about 50% of my members. I'm just going to make up a number because I don't remember, but I think I need 15 guys or 16 guys. I had like eight or nine that were full-time dedicated to me. So the scheduling and all the admin stuff has slowed. I was drinking from a fire hose for a while. I'd say the first two or three months, I was like, I don't think I can do this forever. There's going to be a burn. I'm not going to make it. And the agency never had that before. Bro, I'm not going to make it 18 months up here is what I can remember. I'm going to kill myself. Not really, but it's crazy. But it slowed way down. I could feel like it was coming back to normal because I was up here for so long. And so I had some help. A good friend of mine came up. I recruited a guy. I told my boss, I said, I need a guy that I can trust. Does it have to be a guy? on PPD right now. He goes, no, it can be anybody. I said, well, I want this guy who's in the Washington field office. Our wives are best friends. He's extremely competent. So I recruited him and I called him. I said, his name is Richie. And I've interviewed him on my podcast too. And I said, would you be interested in coming to New York and helping me? And he said, yeah. So thank God for Richie. So Richie came up and he took over the lion's share of the Admin stuff. He was still operational, too. But it was nice to have a guy that could do all this stuff while you're doing other stuff. Because I had to be on every trip. I took 134. I took out of town. I'm talking about New York stuff. Anything outside of New York. I did 134 trips on an airplane in 15 months. Oh, my gosh. Brother, I was balls to the wall. It was on. It was on. All with. And that's Scotland, Ireland, D.C., Cali. I mean, all their places. Dubai. We were gone, man. Oh, my

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:21

goodness.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:21

We were in the wind. Because they were in the golf courses. At that time, they owned 18 golf courses. We'd be in Miami today and New York tomorrow and back to California. I mean, dude, we were all over the place. Do a favorite. Oh, yeah, my favorite, hands down, and I told him because they really like it. Scotland's awesome, too. They have a couple properties. Turnberry, I think, is probably one of their favorites. My personal favorite, just from looking at it from the cheap seats, is Doonbeg. Doonbeg is in Ireland. And I just liked the– because I had spent three years in– three and a half years in London. In London, yeah. And I liked that pubby feel, the dark, the leather, and it was just like a little small– it was awesome. Wow. Doonbeg is my favorite. Did they have something over there? Yeah, that's what they have. They have Trump Doonbeg. Trump Doonbeg, okay. It's called Doonbeg. And, of course– Turnberry's awesome. There's a couple over there in Scotland that are cool. I'm drawing a blank on the names. They have got Doral down in Miami. Doral's one of their nicest properties. I'm not a Miami guy. It's hot as crap. It's nice, but I'm not much of a Florida guy.

UNKNOWN: 1:28:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:28

But they have some nice courses down in Florida. They have everywhere. They have like 18. I can't remember them all.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:34

What are some of their schedules and stuff? Especially when they're traveling that much. What stands out? What are they doing? How are they

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:43

working out? How's life? I will say this. Highly motivated individuals. Type A people. Both. Oh, yeah. Okay. I think most people, like Dana White, whoever, Joe Rogan, these are self-starters. They don't need the external motivation. You know, like a football coach pumping you up. You don't need that. Like, I'm in it to win it, bro. And I think that's why these people are so successful, because they work hard. And they have a tremendous amount of integrity too. They're not pulling the wool over people. You know what I mean? They're hard workers. They have ethics and they're grinders, man. They're just grinders. Yeah. And I think that's what sets them apart. Yeah. Unlike somebody like, and I'll, I'll use a report. I don't, you know, I'm not gonna pick on like Nancy Pelosi or who, you know, because I thought insider trading bull crap that they put Martha Stewart in jail for. They all do it both sides, I think. Right. I think Republicans and Democrats do all that stuff. But like, let's say somebody like, you know, Joe Biden, who is a career politician, some, Someone like Mitch McConnell. Yeah, you've got money, but it's because you've been a politician your whole life and you've made inroads, right? It's networking. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying that's illegal. But I'm just saying these people are hard workers and they grind. And attention to detail oriented. I can't speak so much for Don because I wasn't with Don very much. But like Eric... We'll take a red-eye from New York to Scotland. No, he gets to sleep, and I didn't. So he's like, I love that guy. He never quite got it. He's like, here's the trick, Scott. Here's what we've got to do. So as soon as we get on the plane, here's the other thing, too, by the way. Sometimes we would fly on the private aircraft, which was awesome, but then sometimes we would fly commercial, and they always flew coach. Bro, they are not. No way. Brother, they are fiscally responsible. And I'm telling you, I was like, dude, are you sure we don't want to fly business? He's like, no, we're a flying coach. I'm like, okay. So there would be occasions where we would get bumped up or something. But a lot of times, they're trying to find– just like us, man. They're being fiscally responsible and they are flying. Oh, it's awesome. I really– I did respect that about them. Yeah. Because they were not like– I mean, his dad's got a nice airplane, but he didn't always use it. You know what I mean? Yeah. So anyway– We'd fly. And he'd say, here's the trick, Scott. He's like, when we get on the plane, you know, you got to go to sleep before we take off. And I'm like, Eric, I can't. I'm protecting you, ding dong. Like, can you imagine me and I got my head on Eric Trump's shoulder with drool coming up on YouTube. Like, I'm going to get fired, dummy. Like I don't get to sleep on the plane. So he would go to sleep and then that joker, I think he's got narcolepsy or something. He could fall or narcolepsy when you can't go. No, when you can't. Oh, that joker. So he'd be asleep on the plane and I'm sitting there going, wow, this is awesome. And so like we'd fly all night and we hit the ground at like seven in the morning and we'd be off and running and he's going, I'm like, try to stay awake. Right. Can I get a coffee? But no, he would go to his property, and we would generally go get breakfast or something. And depending on the situation, if I had someone, I would go take a nap and come back. You know what I mean? I didn't have to grind the whole day sometimes. It depended. But we'd go in, and he would get with the GM, and we would go, and he would do the hotel stuff, and then we'd go do the golf course stuff. But he's all business. All business. No, he's not messing around. He's very nice to people, very firm but fair, right? Yeah, yeah. professional, but he, in my estimation, he was running the company. you get what I'm saying? Like I'm not trying to like, yeah, no disrespect to that. Like, but he was to me, he's, I know he's the little brother, but I think he's running. He's running the company. Yeah. So cool. How you like you, you heard all the calls

SPEAKER_01: 1:32:39

and just to be there and to be

SPEAKER_00: 1:32:42

in. Oh, I've heard some interesting things. That's for sure. Any that you can possibly share any phone

SPEAKER_01: 1:32:48

call. It could have been good news. It could have been bad news. Any, anything

SPEAKER_00: 1:32:52

stand out? I will tell you one that really kind of hurt my feelings for him. He did a lot of fundraising for St. Jude, Children's Hospital. Yeah, I love St. Jude. Yeah, I think they have a wing named after him. Like Eric raised about$20 million. This is before dad was dad, you know. And I'll never forget. I felt so bad for the guy. We were in a car. Of course, I'm riding right in front, so he's in the back. You hear– you're not eavesdropping, but you can't hear. The guy's right behind you. You can't not hear it. And so he's on the phone with I don't know who from St. Jude. And it was the first time that I'd ever really heard him get animated. I think it hurt his feelings. This is my opinion, right? I think his feelings were hurt. They were basically trying to cut ties because of the name. You know what I mean? Quit being a coward. Right. Wow. Quit being a coward. Because of the political name? Because of Trump. Because Trump was so polarizing. And so I don't know the nuance of it. I just remember that... He was like, are you guys kidding me? Like I raised all this money for, because he's a good person and he raised money for children. And then you want to like take the Trump name. I don't know how all that shook out, but I can remember. And we were actually, it was really weird too, because we were on the way to Connecticut to a park. Like sometimes like, I learned a lot about the business world. Not a lot, but I see glimpses into it. Sure. If your name's on that building, that doesn't mean you're necessarily on that building. Maybe you paid to have your name on it. You know what I mean? All these Trump things, maybe they just paid to have their name on it. Yeah. They don't necessarily own the building. And so we were going to, I think it was an apartment building or something in Connecticut, and he was going up there to do damage control because they wanted to break ties. It was like, so... A year ago when this guy was just a billionaire, you were good with him. Yeah. But now because he's a Republican, you're full of crap. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's very political. You know what I mean? And so I felt bad for him because he was trying to salvage some of this business stuff. Yeah. And then he's on the phone with this guy from– I was like, man, these guys– you know, people show their true colors very quickly. That's tough. You know, like the court of public opinion– Yeah. Can really make, you know, like getting canceled and all that stuff, which I don't care about. Some people do. So how many years? You're

SPEAKER_01: 1:35:13

in the service now how many years?

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:16

Like 19 coming up on 20.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35:18

Okay. So

SPEAKER_00: 1:35:19

I'm 45 years old. Like I'm long and like I'm good at my job. You know, I'm long in the tooth. Yeah. I feel like I'm hitting my stride pretty good. Then what happens? You finish out with Eric, or do you get moved? Yeah, and this is a long story. I won't do a diatribe on it. When I got sent up there, when Al and I got selected for that, it was an 18-month long-term TDY. So he left his family in Alabama. I left my family in Virginia, and we went up there on a long-term temporary duty assignment, which means they— Uncle Sam was going to pay for our apartment. We were getting per diem and all this stuff, right? Sounds good on paper, but in reality, it wasn't that good because it's just expensive up there. And I had two kids in college at the time. And, uh, you know, and the government, as you know, will of progress turned slowly. And so some of my vouchers weren't getting paid. I got to one point where I had$20,000 in vouchers outstanding. They wouldn't pay me. And so I was raising a little hell because I was like, I need to get paid. Like I've, You work to make money. You don't work to spend money. You sent me up here, pay me. So Al and I got to the point, we both got to the point where we had to take loans against our TSP. I had 20 years on the job. I've been saving my money, you know, for my whole career in like my 401k or whatever. And I had to take a loan out just to survive. And I was not happy. I mean, you do what you have to do, right? And so I just was trying to like say, guys, could you just please, pay me and i think because i got vocal about it one time too many they're like okay you're done and i was pissed because i was really the hard part was over yeah i had gotten it stood up like i had no admin help i was responsible for all the cars all the weapons all that anything you can think of i was responsible for i did all the surveys i did all the paperwork i did all this i really busted my butt to get it off the ground and then they Pulled the carpet out from under me, I felt like. So I did 15 months. I was supposed to do 18. I'm like, I'm good now, guys. And they're like, nope, you're coming back. I'm like, you mother effers. So anyway, when your boss's boss calls, it is what it is. And my boss, Neil, he had a lot of juice, you know. You remember that term, juice? He had a lot of juice. He was trying to protect me, but he couldn't. They're like, you're coming back. I'm like, God bless. Okay, I'm coming back, which is good because I wanted to go home. I missed home. When I went back, that was April of 18. I went from January of 17 to April of 18 up there. It was hard, but I loved it. Then I went back and I ran our surveillance unit because I had done CSU, counter surveillance stuff. Secret Service loves to say counter, right? It's not just snipers, it's counter snipers, you know, or assault team. No, it's the counter assault because you're countering something, right? So I went back and ran our counter surveillance unit under PPD's umbrella because now there's a CSD, there's a division that does the whole national capital region and there's a BP team and there's a PPD team. So I went back and ran the PPD team for a year. And I enjoyed it because I had done it for four and a half years, so I was pretty good at that too. I had done that for a long time, and I felt like I was pretty good at that. But I did miss my boys because your team. I built up my team, and then I missed Eric and Laura, of course. It is what it is. Everything has to come to an end. But I felt like my time was cut a little short. But it's fine. I did it for a year, and I enjoyed that. Because I was able to get back into my coaching of high school football and stuff. Oh, good. Getting back into that rhythm of doing that stuff I enjoyed. And then after that, they put me in the JOC, which is the Joint Operations Center. Oh, yeah. Brother, that place took years off my life. Normally, when you get promoted to go to the detail, that's where they put the baby. You're a brand-new supervisor. They put you in the JOC. And that's where you kind of cut your teeth because you're seeing everything. You're running the complex. You know what I mean? You and the lieutenant. You're the two guys running the whole thing. And there's a watch commander who's a captain, but they let you do your thing. You know what I mean? And so you and the lieutenant run the jock. Well, because I had started in New York, they put me in there on the back end. And I was like, I don't really want to do it. I don't want to do this. No one wants to do it. Somebody's got to do it. And, you know, you're running the complex. And it's good in one way because when you leave– like when I was running Eric's Detail, I was never really off. Like you worked your shift, but then you go back to your computer and you type for two or three hours. And I was eating one or two meals a day. I was getting one or two workouts. And, like, I lost a bunch of weight because I just– I wasn't able to do anything but work. You were never really off. You didn't sleep good because you were worried about your phone. Hey, I'm at the hospital with my water breaking or whatever. You never really could relax. That was the good thing about the jock was you're managing zero people. You're running the show when you're there, but at the end of the day, you're like, I survived. My phone's not going to go off because I don't have any people. The problem is that eight hours when you're in there, You are on the hot seat because you're running everything for the White House complex. And it's extremely stressful. And I hated it. But I will say, I will say as much as I hate it, I hated it. I never liked it. I didn't like anything about it. And I'm being very honest. I didn't like one thing about it. But I know it made me better. Because you see everything. And you're responsible for everything. So now I look back and go, I'm kind of like, I can say I did it. Which nobody, if you haven't done it, you're like, what, so? But it makes me, it was a major accomplishment. And I know it made me better at understanding everything. What would you say is surprising up there? Because I actually did it for a little period of time. I got hurt and they put me up there for a month or two. What surprised

SPEAKER_01: 1:41:25

me? Did anything surprise

SPEAKER_00: 1:41:27

you? Oh, yeah. I mean, I think what surprises me, surprised me is twofold. And I definitely got to be careful about this topic because it's the jock. You know what I mean? The drone activity in D.C. is surprising. What years were you there? 18 and 19. Okay, so this is a little bit later. Got it. The drone activity is a little, I was like, wow, really? Okay. From an operational standpoint, that was a big problem. for us, you know, people are just, You're

SPEAKER_01: 1:41:59

talking

SPEAKER_00: 1:42:00

public, just launching a

SPEAKER_01: 1:42:02

drone off the

SPEAKER_00: 1:42:02

street. Yeah, and it could be somebody innocent not knowing what they're doing. It could be nefarious. You don't know, so you have to treat it all the same. So that was a pain in the butt. The thing, which is part of the job, right? But the part that really was the most, I think, discouraging for me was somebody's got to do that job. I didn't ask to go in there, but you told me I'm going in there. So if you're going to put me in there, then you have to trust my judgment. Because I don't want to be in there any more than the next guy pushing me. No one wants to be in there. But somebody has to do a hard job. And if you're going to put me in there to make a decision, don't armchair quarterback every freaking thing I do. Because otherwise, you come in here, and if you think you can do it better, by God, come do it. Because I don't want to be in here anyway. I'd rather be at home at football practice. But you put me in here to make some decisions. I'm making hard decisions very quickly. And then, man, it's like you're working the problem. And your phone's ringing. We're 10 seconds in. I can't. I got to go. And then you're hanging up on bosses. And you're kind of talking sternly or rudely to people that you don't want to talk to that way. Because it's a fine line between being respectful and trying to do your job. You know what I mean? And you're in a trick bag. And I'm like, I'm trying to work the problem. I can't work the problem anymore. and debrief it I will debrief it but I'm working it right now and it was constant man so just the phone ringing I'm like brother do you think I'm not going to tell you of course I'm going to tell you I got to get through it first just the armchair quarterbacking was very that was just It's not a surprise. It was just disheartening. So it's like air traffic control. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:43:43

So you were the number one in charge. Yeah. Yeah. I just worked. I remember working one of the screens outside. I remember listening to some of the calls.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:51

Yeah, it's crazy. So you split duty. So you sit at the back of the room. It's really weird how the service does things. So as a GS-14... You're the pay grade equivalent of a captain, so like a captain. So the captain's the watch commander. But he or she's got an office. I don't know what they're doing, but they're not in the room. Right. Your pay grade is the equivalent of a captain. Yeah. But you're sitting at a desk next to a lieutenant. So the whole room thinks that you and the lieutenant, and probably the lieutenant probably thinks that y'all are equals. And it sounds really pompous. I hope I'm doing this justice because— I've never been big on titles. But there's a chain of command for a reason. There is. So you're sitting back there with a lieutenant, and everybody in the room thinks you guys are equals, but you're really equivalent to the captain who's not in the room. So you really have the ultimate authority. But that whole room, as you know, is UD. There's a couple of agents in there, but it's mostly UD. It's a UD-run program. Yeah. And you don't want to big league the guy. You don't want to, like, I'm in charge. You're both. You're both in charge. You're both in charge. But ultimately— It's going to fall on you. They're going to come to you. And so it got a little dicey because sometimes the lieutenant would want to do something. I was like, whoa. And I can't really talk about it because of the countermeasures and stuff that we would use. And then the guy, they were all ready to use their toys. They're like, guys, slow down. Once we do this, we can't undo it. Let's slow down. So I think that helped me because I was older. I was in my late 40s, and some of these guys were 30, younger guys, right? And they were itchy. I'm like, whoa, whoa, tap the brakes. Tap the brakes. Once we do it. If we do decide, we have to collectively decide to do this. And one time I had Lute. He's a nice guy, super nice guy. He made a decision without consulting with me. I'm like, bro, you can't do that. I'm not going to make a decision without talking to you first. You can't do that either. You can't cut my legs off because then the guys aren't going to respect me, and I wouldn't do that to you. And he was cool about it. He didn't do it maliciously. It's just like he got caught up. And I'm like, brother, listen, we have to talk. Maybe we agree to disagree, but in this setting, we're either going to go with A and we're going to do whatever, or we're going to go with B and we're not going to do it. But it can be a house divided. And he got it. But it was tough, man. Any close calls ever with Reagan being close by?

UNKNOWN: 1:46:29

No.

SPEAKER_00: 1:46:29

Uh, well, we're going back in time a little bit. Not, not when I was in the jock, thank God. But like one night when I was working, uh, Bush 43 as a shift, a young shift agent, I hadn't even gone to cat yet. Yeah. Um, because of nine 11, they have new procedures in place, right? With the aircraft and they can track time and distance and speed. That's like you have seven minutes or you have 10, whatever, you know what I mean?

UNKNOWN: 1:46:54

Um,

SPEAKER_00: 1:46:55

And they have different color, like condition green is normal, then condition yellow and orange and red. You know, it escalates, right? So they basically took all the guesswork out. So it's like, here's a chart, and if we meet these parameters, the jock AT, which is what I would do years later, he and the lieutenant are looking at this chart, and they're like, okay... Okay, well, we're going– because you don't necessarily have to go from green to yellow. You could go from green to red. Like, you might just jump all the way up, right? So they took the guesswork out of it because some of it was subjective, so they made it very objective. It was like, okay, oh, crap, we've got to inbound, and he's not talking. Got to go. You know what I mean? So one night I was working, and we did an EVAC on– well, we started to do an EVAC with Bush. And I happened to be standing on the post upstairs outside the residence. Here's the thing. When it comes across the radio, you're not thinking. You're doing condition red or whatever it was. Oh, crap. I got to bust into the private residence. But what you do is you take your key out, and I put it in the door, and the shift leader came up. And then, you know, I wouldn't have gone without him. That was the protocol. You wait on the boss to come up. And so I had everything, like I had the door ready. And he went in and got them and said they were eating dinner. He said, we got to go. We got an inbound aircraft. And this was cool, man. This is what I liked about Bush too, man. He's like, where's Barney? Where's Barney? He's worried about his dog. He's like, where's Barney? And where's Maria? The Barney part was funny because of Maria, the housekeeper. And he brought her with him from Texas when he was governor. And he was not leaving. Yeah. Without her. Oh, man. And I thought, man, that's the stuff that no one sees. It's incredible. Yeah. He might be a little off on some stuff, but he's got a good heart. Yeah. And he was not leaving without a housekeeper. So I thought that was cool. Wow. Yeah. That was at night. That was at dinnertime. It was in the summertime, so it wasn't dark out, but it was like 6 or 7 o'clock at night. They were eating. Did it resolve? Was it just an accident? Well, then we start doing our thing, which I can't talk about. Yeah. And then... I guess the airliner. It was a big aircraft. It was a commercial aircraft, and it wasn't squawking or whatever. And then they finally started talking. And they're like, okay, false alarm. But we went through quite a few of the procedures. We were leaving. Yeah, yeah. Frightening. It was a little wild. And what year was that? That was probably like 2004. Oh, my gosh. So we're like three years out. Like, it's very fresh. It's still tender. You got a freaking triple seven coming in. You're leaving, bro.

SPEAKER_01: 1:49:42

You're leaving. All right. What can you tell us about CSU?

SPEAKER_00: 1:49:47

CSU, do you want to get into July 13th now? That's your department now. So you're in CSU. You leave New York. So I leave New York, yeah. You're in CSU. Yep. What is it? So counter surveillance unit is like the plainclothes guys. I always enjoy that because you could, you know. Secret Service has a very high standard for grooming. That's when you could let your hair grow out. I don't have any much anymore, but I could grow a pretty good beard. So I could grow a beard. I always tried to pull off the construction worker look because D.C. is always under construction. So put on a Carhartt and grow your beard out, and you look like you're working on something on the road construction guy or something. So that was always kind of cool. I enjoyed that. And then in the summertime, you know, it's hot. It can get hot in D.C. You could wear shorts and, you know, wear shorts. What do you do?

SPEAKER_01: 1:50:37

Ultimately, what do you do? Are you around the White House?

SPEAKER_00: 1:50:39

Yeah. So you're basically, for the counter-surveillance division, you're running the NCR, the National Capital Region. So you're doing in-town, what they call in-town. You remember the in-towns? Like you got advances out of town and then in-town. So in-town, you're the National Mall, the Reagan National Mall. The train stations, the parks, the White House, the VPR, you know, the NAVOPs up in Naval Observatory. Oh, yeah. So you're just embassies, all the embassies up there, Foreign Missions Branch, you know, Foreign Missions Branch runs the patrol units. So you're just kind of, you're out there in plainclothes. You're just another element. You're just another set of eyes and ears that no one, you know, people probably know it exists, but like, you know, you don't stick out. You know what I mean? You're just blending in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:51:27

I

SPEAKER_00: 1:51:27

spent a lot of time at Lafayette Park, which is right across from the church over there with the president's little yellow church. The little stand, the little protest that's been there forever since the 70s. You just walk up and down. You just spend a lot of time saturating that area. Just walk around. Did you ever uncover anything huge

SPEAKER_01: 1:51:51

that you

SPEAKER_00: 1:51:53

can talk about? No, I don't think I don't think. Or it's not even about that uncovering something. I think that we, you know, the problem with CSU is it's so intangible. You know, it's like. Yeah. Maybe I stopped something and I didn't know. How many things did we stop because I saw something that didn't look right and I had a UD guy on the trek, might go talk to him. Or we did the dog thing. How many things, can I say, no, on this day we stopped this attack. I can't tell you that. But I can't help but believe day in and day out, day in and day out, year after year, that we didn't thwart some stuff because of... being proactive and then maybe something didn't come to fruition or maybe maybe a guy saw us like oh that might be an undercover guy you know it's hard to say yeah because you don't always blend in as good as you think you do anyway yeah well there's actually a story that comes to mind because i was there at the

SPEAKER_01: 1:52:54

time it sounds like around the same the time frame that you're talking about and there was a a vendor out in the street with one of those trucks

SPEAKER_00: 1:53:03

and

SPEAKER_01: 1:53:03

and it appeared to be selling watches but they were confirmed a spy from another country yeah and it was i know the story because it was my roommate at the time who you may have worked with i won't say his name i'll tell you after the episode but you guys may have worked together on it and then he found himself getting uh cash and metal award in the basement of one of the huge agencies in DC. Cause it was a giant name. So there's an example that could have been something you guys worked on. Yeah. That's incredible. All right. How long do you do on CSU?

SPEAKER_00: 1:53:37

So as a worker B I did four and a half years. Okay. And then when I got, when I left New York, it came back and I ran. the unit for the white house for a year. Yeah. So five and a half total years, five and a half total to two different kinds of assignments. Are

SPEAKER_01: 1:53:50

we staring at retirement now? We're two years.

SPEAKER_00: 1:53:52

So now I'm at no, cause that's 2019. So I'll, uh, 2019. So I probably got three years left to go. Three, maybe three. What are you seeing in those three? So I thought, okay, uh, my time was coming up. I'm tired of DC. I've been there, you know, a long time, man. I'm, you know, I bounced, you know, to New York and back, but New York was stressful. And in that time I had gone to London and back to, you know, in the early, like, Oh, Oh nine to Oh nine to 12, you know, but I spent a lot of time, 13 years of your career in DC is a long time. It's, it's a long time. And so, um, we were starting to become, we were getting really close to being empty nesters. You know, I had one at home and my wife, we knew we were going to retire North Carolina. And, um, she said, do you want to do one more? It's funny because she's the one that kind of talked me into putting in for London. I'm a homebody. And then she's like, her favorite place on earth is Hawaii. And I'm like, well, you realize that the office in Hawaii is in Honolulu, not Maui. So it's not like vacate. She's like, yeah, but why don't we put him? I'm like, okay. Wow. And so, I felt like I'd be pretty competitive for it because I was already a boss on PPD. And it's like, I got to rotate off. They rotate you off, right? There's a shelf life. And so I was coming up on three years. I'm like, I think I'll be pretty competitive because they got to put me out to pasture, basically. And so I'm like, I'll put in for this Hawaii office so I can go check that box. Because as you know, the Secret Service is like Office of Protective Operations, Office of Intelligence, Investigations. There's like eight or nine, whatever. And so I'm going to go check the INV box because out of all the directorates, the OPO, the Office of Protective Operations, and INV, the Office of Investigations, are the two biggest because that's what we do the most. And there's some smaller ones, but that's the two big ones. So I'm going to check that box to be well-rounded. And then I'm going to come back to PPD and, As a 15, because that was my ultimate goal to be an ASAC, to be like the number two. Yeah. Not number two, but like number three, whatever, on PBD. To me, the 14 on PBD is the hardest job. There's nothing harder. A 15, which is a step up, is probably about the best job because you're the second soup and you fly out the night before the advance. you know, on the car plane and you work the man the next day and you fly home on Air Force One, it's pretty good living. So I'm like, that's, that's what I want to do. I don't need to be the man. I just want to be one of the guys. And so, cause I'd paid my dues and I felt like that'd be a pretty good way to end my career. Cause you're working the man. I mean, you're working, you're flying home on Air Force. It's easy. It's not easy, but it's good, good living. And, and so I went to Hawaii and ran our investigative team. section over there and then of course that was in December 19 and of course COVID hits and what was what I thought was going to be an amazing assignment which was still a good assignment it's Hawaii so no one feels sorry for me for moving to Hawaii but at the same time it's like it got really shut down and got weird and we did have some visitors but not like we thought we would have yeah and it just it pretty liberal state. Like they kind of do what, what California does about a week or two later. So whatever Newsom was saying, that's what was happening. It's like, okay, it's 85 degrees here year round, but I can't go to the beach. What? Like COVID doesn't live in the air at the beach. We're fine. Like we're like literally like follow the science until you disagree with it. So it's like, it was just weird. It got weird, you know? Um, But I did enjoy it. You know, it was Hawaii, so it was very enjoyable. It was me and my wife, and we took one of our dogs, and that was fun and everything. But, like, I did that for about two years, just under two years. I had planned on doing that and coming back. Like I said, try to get promoted one more time. But it got so crazy with the COVID thing, and then we didn't take the vaccine. So, like, they were really– I was really fighting to keep my job because I was within two years of my retirement, and I was trying to not lose my job. And I couldn't travel. I was kind of a burden on the office because there's only two of us in the office that didn't take the shot. And so I felt like the guy above me and the two guys above me were– I don't know if they were mad at me, but I frustrated them because they had to pick up my work. And one guy retired. So I felt like I was kind of a– I was a little bit of a burden. I was a little bit dead. I mean, if I'm being honest, I was dead weight. Cause I couldn't, I couldn't do anything but sit at my desk and grade papers. You know, you turn in a report, I could read your report, but I couldn't travel. And so, uh, and it was getting weird too, because like you couldn't go, if you didn't have a vaccine card, you couldn't go to a restaurant. And we're like, okay, well, what's next? Grocery shopping. Eventually, they're like, let's go groceries, which did happen later. We got out before that. But if you didn't have a card, you couldn't get in. I'm like, well, I got to eat. How the heck am I supposed to get food? So I'm like, peace. And so I went to my boss. I was like, look, man, I'm within a year of retirement. I have no desire to go back to D.C. I've had a good career. I'm out. I'm going to cut my losses. I'm out. And I would like to respectfully take a downgrade. I want to go home. And he thought I was crazy. And in hindsight, I do regret doing that because I worked really hard to get to where I was, and then I gave it back and went back to doing stuff I had done 10 years ago or whatever. But hindsight is 20-20. And I did what I thought was right at that time for my wife and me and my kids. Because we're a long way. Hawaii is great, but, man, you're a long way from the family. I had kids in college and stuff. It was just time to come home. And so I took a downgrade and went to Wilmington, North Carolina. I'm from Charlotte area, but I went to Wilmington. So North Carolina is a hard state to get to. It's like, you know, it's– God's country. People want to, you know, get to North Carolina. So it was kind of hard to get home. So I got as close as I could get. I went to Wilmington, super small office. And I did that for a year. I'm like, I can do anything. I can stand on my head for a year. And so I was, I was completely anticlimactic way to end my career. You know what I mean? And I was like, man, I wish I hadn't done this, but you know, I got home. I built my forever home. Great. My wife doesn't, she didn't, she's, I'm still married to the same woman. Yeah. I didn't get divorced and my kids don't hate me. So, you know, I think, I think we won.

SPEAKER_01: 2:00:21

It's incredible. Do you, do you do it all over again?

SPEAKER_00: 2:00:25

Um, yeah, probably. I would do some things differently for sure. You know, I think that's, that's life, right? What's one you would do differently? Um, well, I would have definitely gone in the military. Okay. Which is not exactly what you're asking, but I would probably gone in the military. Yeah. What would you have done? I would have loved to have been a SEAL. I don't know if I would have made it through BUDS or made it through SF. I would have liked to have done something high speed. That's just my personality. I would have liked to have tried. So I think that's like not ever having tried is hard. Listen, I'm 53 years old, so that ship has sailed for sure. But I think that's why I was chasing that GRS carrot for a long time. Yeah. Because I just like... I can do this. I know I can do it. But it's like when I had the physical ability, I probably wasn't there mentally. Now that I'm mentally there, physically I probably can't do it. So it's like, dang it, Scott. But listen, I'm a Christian. I am not perfect, but I believe in God, and I believe we all have a path. And I believe I was where I was supposed to be when I was supposed to be, and I don't necessarily have to like it or understand it. I just have to try to accept it. And so I know I've done– I've done my little patriotic thing in my own way. I do wish I could say I was this, that, or the other thing, but I played college football for a while, too, and I only did that for two years, and I decided that was enough because I got out of that thing unscathed. I saw a lot of ACLs torn and concussions and all this stuff, so I'm like, you know what? This is not worth it. So it's like everything's got a shelf life.

SPEAKER_01: 2:01:58

Yeah. That's awesome. Now tell me what you're doing today.

SPEAKER_00: 2:02:02

Well, I can't say where I work because I'm still in law enforcement, and the place I work is I really like where I work, but they've asked me to not. I can talk about Secret Service stuff, but they've asked me not to say where I work. So I'm coming up on my second retirement. Very cool. I think. Is that called double dipping? Yeah, probably. When they say double dipping, is that what you're doing? I think that's fair to say. It'll be a very small thing. Retirement because I've only, you know, five or six, it's not thirds. Like I've got a pretty good retirement from Uncle Sam, but the local retirement will be small because I've only done five or six years, you know, so it'd be small, but that'll be fine. And I'm trying to figure it out. Like, you know, Am I going to go and do like everybody else and get it in the private sector and chase the money for a little while and do executive protection or something completely unrelated and just get in the business world and make some money? Maybe. But I'm really trying to get my social media stuff going. I have a podcast, as you know, and I'm hoping that that will be...

SPEAKER_01: 2:02:57

Tell us the name of

SPEAKER_00: 2:02:58

that. It's called Scott Bryson Beyond the Service. Mostly just BTS, like Scott Bryson BTS. I'm on all socials and my YouTube channel is that And so trying to grow that platform and hoping that that will take off and we'll just have to see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:03:16

And you have a big

SPEAKER_00: 2:03:18

following out on Instagram. So what's the... Instagram's done well. Instagram's

SPEAKER_01: 2:03:22

done well. What would you say is the core of your sort of wrapping this up now? What... What's the core of what you're trying to accomplish out there? What's your message?

SPEAKER_00: 2:03:32

Man, that's a great question. I think when it started, I just wanted to do this to be sort of cathartic and get some stuff off my chest. Because the Hatch Act, right, for 25 years, I couldn't say much about how I felt. And Secret Service agents are pretty good about compartmentalizing. I just want to get some stuff off my chest. It's hard to see all the stuff, and you can't really have an opinion. So I think at first it was just sort of a cathartic thing for me. And, again, it sounds a little cliche. I just really want to help people. I think there's a lot of things out there that benefit the veterans as there should be because PTSD is a real thing, right? You go down range and get shot up or blown up. That's a real thing. So there's a lot of– I feel like there's a lot of stuff out there for the vets as there should be. I'm going to be very clear. This is not a Mount Everest thing. I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges. I just don't think that the law enforcement community does a great job outside of each individual. Like, there might be a chaplain or you can go talk to a psychiatrist, but there's not a whole lot out there for the law enforcement community or first responders. And I think that my wife and I are trying to figure out how we can help that community, like a self-help thing. Like, how do you stay married? Because it's a hard career. It's more like death by a thousand paper cuts. Like, as a police officer, you see all this crazy stuff. Not every day, but you see some crazy stuff. And then... at the end of 25 or 30 years, you're like, you got issues too. Like you might not have gone to Iraq and gotten a shootout, but you've seen a bunch of bad stuff over 30 years. And so it's like a more of a slow death than like a sucker punch type thing. And so we're just trying to figure out how we can help people with getting through some of that mental health stuff. Yeah. stay having a healthy marriage because marriage is hard. We all know marriages, you know, this career field is hard on marriages. Yeah. Um, they're hard enough the way it is. Yeah. So just, I don't know, just trying to help people without sound completely sounding cliche. We're just trying to figure out how to help people. Yeah. I think.

SPEAKER_01: 2:05:31

Yeah. More will, more will be revealed as time goes on. So we'll keep getting more and more feedback and stuff like that. So, all right, cool. The last, last topic I want to talk around is the, the famous, assassination that took place and let's couple it in with the state of the agency whatever you know since you've been gone for a while I've had Eddie on I've had Derek on they hear things yeah I don't know where what do you think

SPEAKER_00: 2:06:00

yeah I mean I'm still kind of wired in it's been almost three years I'm you know the further away I get the less and less people I know you know what I mean but like I still I'm in some text groups with guys that are on the job and stuff I think for me what really stuck out for July 13th was, I did that job for a long time. And I mean, that's hard to sit here. I mean, one of the things I love to say on my show is we call balls and strikes. Like I do. I call balls, like I'm going to call balls and strikes. And so sometimes that's painful because I got to say things that I don't want to say about an agency that I gave 25 years of my life to, but I think D man, this was going to say it, man, this is going to, this is going to hurt me a little bit, but I don't care. Like DEI is a thing. I think DEI has hurt the agency in certain ways. And you, you can let your imagination run with that, but you know what I mean? I think we possibly lowered the standards on certain things, not everything. And that's only part of it. That's not the whole thing. It's, you know, you're only as good as you're, weakest link, your lowest common denominator. What I love to say is the standard is the standard. If you can meet the standard, you can be on the team. If you can't meet the standard, you're out. We don't all have to be. It's okay. We all have different things we're good at. The standard is the standard. Race shouldn't matter. Sex shouldn't matter. Nothing should matter. Are you competent? I work with plenty. I want to be very clear. I work with plenty of females that were competent. I'm not saying that. Likewise. Plenty of females that I would go through a door with. There are some, not only females, but there are some men on the job that shouldn't be on the job. It is what it is. I think that was a big part of it. I also think that some of the assets weren't there that should have been. We talked about surveillance. You also have to realize that as a former president, and I don't want to sound like I'm defending the agency here because I'm ultimately not. But as a former president, you don't get the assets that a sitting president gets. You just don't. However, this wasn't Carter. This wasn't Bush. This wasn't Obama. This was a guy who just got out of office, who was very controversial, whether it's his fault or not. He's also the nominee, so he should have had more. So this isn't like Bush 41, who's been out of office 20 years. He's passed away now. But this isn't a guy who's been out of office 20 or 30 years. This is... a guy who's still in it. And so I think some of that– because they had a– you know, if you go back and look at the footage, the guys that jumped up on the stage with the working shift, the guys in suits, and there's a couple guys in tactical gear, that's the counter-assault team. So he had a CAT team with him. It might have been a smaller team, I don't know. But he also– you look in the background, you can see the SWAT guys, the local SWAT teams. Okay, he had tactical assets. Why then did he not also have counter-surveillance, which would have– that would have been their moment to shine. Because, you know, it used to really upset me because I was a, my heart's really with the CAT program. Like, I felt like more of a, like, if I had to pick, I'm like, I'm a CAT guy. But I also enjoyed the surveillance stuff too. And it always had a chip on my shoulder because a lot of the times they were like, oh, the counter surveillance guys, you guys don't do anything. You're just that Starbucks drinking coffee. No, dude, we're working. We're really working. That might be part of the job. I'm like, God bless. But it's like, If I would have been there, and I know what I'm talking about because I did it as a hump for four and a half years, and I ran it for a year. If they would have had, I don't care if it was one, two, I don't care how many guys you had. If you'd have had a couple of people there in plain clothes, they would have found that guy. There's no chance. I don't believe there's no chance. I think they would have found him.

SPEAKER_01: 2:09:44

Sure.

SPEAKER_00: 2:09:45

I'm having a hard time getting it out right. But, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I guarantee they would have found him. Had we had surveillance guys there, I believe they would have found the guy. And if somebody like me would have been working, I would have probably killed him, right? You know what I mean? The right guy would have, you know. He's laying there with the right. Someone would have walked up and killed the guy or put him in handcuffs. Yeah. Stopped. They would save the day. And forever and ever and ever, the counter-surveillance unit would have been the hero. The hero. And instead, they didn't have the asset, and we know what happened. And I just can't wrap my head around how a guy got within 130 yards. And I have some thoughts and opinions on it, and I don't know if I'm right. I don't know that I'll ever know. But I don't know how a guy like that acted alone. I don't know how far I want to go with that publicly, but I think that the deep state is a real thing. I do not think the Secret Service was complicit. I don't. I think other agencies could have been. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. I don't think we'll ever know. I really don't think we'll ever know. But I just have a hard time believing. And again, maybe I'm dead wrong. Maybe that was just dumb luck. Maybe it was Murphy. Maybe it was just the dumb luck of the bad. You know how it is. Like a cop gets shot in the big toe and he dies, and you shoot the bad guy in the chest twice and he lives. It's like Murphy's always against the good guys. You know what I'm saying? So maybe it was just Murphy. But... I don't know. Regardless of what it was or why it was, if the Secret Service would have had, in my opinion, if they would have had a surveillance unit working, it would have never happened. And I'll never not believe that. What do you

SPEAKER_01: 2:11:29

think about there's theories on the highest point at the site being unmanned? Is there any... relevance to that what are you talking about like highest tower

SPEAKER_00: 2:11:43

oh the the water tower at the back

SPEAKER_01: 2:11:45

was on weren't there two there there is the cs and i still don't have confirmation if it was a secret service counter sniper team or if it was a local law enforcement that's irrelevant here but wasn't

SPEAKER_00: 2:11:57

the highest point unmanned to start off with no for starters well I don't know that. Okay. Probably. Like, if you're talking about the water tower. The tower. I think. The tower that was

SPEAKER_01: 2:12:08

still in the, it might have been out of the physical site plan, but it's not out of here's where.

SPEAKER_00: 2:12:16

Yeah, I think you're right. I don't know. I haven't heard anybody say, because I've asked some questions. I've asked some really, like, I've gone to some, and a lot of, they're just, for whatever reason. I've gotten some information, but I've also gotten some guys like, you know, they're kind of scared. And I get it, man. They're still in the job. So I've got some guys that are sort of scared to talk about it. I will tell you this, though. I do know this. So the sniper teams that we're working, everything's off. I don't want to say that. I can't say that. So Tactical 12, the service works off of Tactical 12. So anyway. the the guys that were in position that this the snipers that you keep see it we don't see it much anymore but when it first happened the guys that were all over tv that's not the shooting team it was the team that wasn't on camera that shot it was even further it's like a 400 yard shot and i think they were on like a scissor lift or something i don't know there's a lot going on like when when shots rang out to like as fate would have it You know, one of the freaking hydraulic wires got, you saw like water or something. From what I understand, that was hydraulics. The scissor lift had gotten shot. And the hose was going crazy. And it looks like water, but I think it was hydraulics. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so, like, they kept saying, and I'm not a sniper, so I don't know. But, like, you know, the thing that I do know that people, What was the director's name that took a beating on that? It was a female. Cheetle. Cheetle, Kim Cheetle. I keep wanting to say Julia Pearson, but it was Cheetle. But like... Dude, really? Just eat it. There's no pitch. It's so embarrassing. I know. Don't say that. It's so embarrassing. Oh, my God. I was, like, cringing. I was like, oh, my God. They're for a while, man. I'll be honest with you. Like, I didn't want to tell people that I retired Secret Service agent because I was like, they're like freaking Keystone. It used to be a cool thing. Now it's like... Freaking Keystone cops. I'm like, oh, embarrassing. But, like, the guys that did shoot, the guy that shot was from a different clock position and... It was about a 400-yard shot, and it was– I mean, he got him good. But there was a lot going on, too. It wasn't like an easy shot with all of the stuff going on. So I know some of these– I've seen some podcasts and stuff where, you know, these former military snipers have weighed in, and they're– They're speaking more intelligently about it than I am because they're snipers. The only thing I would say in defense of the Secret Service guys is this isn't a war zone. Not that the snipers aren't accountable. The military is accountable for their shots too, right? But, like, this is America. This isn't Iraq. This is civilian. We're not in an armed conflict. You know what I mean? Like, you have to be super careful, and it's easy to armchair a quarterback. Now, I'd like to think they would have shot the guy soon. I wish they would have shot him sooner too. But I wasn't there. I didn't see the angle. I'm not a sniper, so I don't have much of an opinion on that. I'm glad the guy got him. I wish they would have shot him sooner. I wish they'd have had a CSU team there that would have saved the day and the snipers would have never had to do their thing. But it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01: 2:15:21

Incredible. If CSU's there, do they take the guy off property

SPEAKER_00: 2:15:27

one way or another? Oh, yeah. There's too

SPEAKER_01: 2:15:29

much. He's doing too many things that don't make sense, right?

SPEAKER_00: 2:15:31

Well, what really bothered me too is– Allegedly, right? An officer climbed up and saw him. Dude, you're a cop. I know. Shoot his ass. Right. Shoot him right now. Right. I mean, he's laying on a roof in a protected zone with a leader, not the leader, but a presidential candidate right there with a freaking AR-15. Right. He's out there to sell ice cream cones. I know. Kill him.

SPEAKER_01: 2:15:55

I know. This is so crazy.

SPEAKER_00: 2:15:58

Or if you can't, at least get the drop on him. Yeah. And then if he doesn't comply, then you can– you know what I mean? Yeah. And handcuff– I mean, like, dude, it would have been– to me, again, I wasn't there, and I'm trying to have grace for these guys. Sure. But it's like, dude, it could have been so easily avoided by having a plainclothes– unit working which I know we have because I used to do it and it would have been you would have been you may have never gotten publicly recognized but you would have been an internal rock star

SPEAKER_01: 2:16:32

right

SPEAKER_00: 2:16:33

and that program would be like see I told you this crap works and you would have been you would have saved the day yeah He's lucky. He shot him right there. How does that happen? Crazy. So insane. So crazy. That was a hard day, man. That was a hard day to watch. Awful. Awful. Still is. Still is awful. Yeah. All right, man. You're

SPEAKER_01: 2:16:57

incredible. Thank you so much. What a career. Oh, gosh. I appreciate you having me. From just the travel with Trump and all you got to see and do. I mean, you saw a lot. lot of great stuff man so i appreciate you coming in appreciate you having me sharing all this good stuff we'll make sure to tag you follow up um and that's it

SPEAKER_00: 2:17:18

yeah thank you appreciate you thanks thank you man