Ep. 72: How a 25-Year-Old Led the Army’s First Cyber Unit—and Never Looked Back | Chris Schueler

This episode originally aired on 20-Minute MBA and is now part of Interesting Humans—because stories like this deserve a bigger stage.

Chris Schueler’s journey isn’t just about becoming a CEO in cybersecurity—it’s about discipline, humility, faith, and the moments that redefine a life.

From growing up in a small town outside Chicago to serving in the military, helping build the Army’s first cyber operations, and eventually leading at the highest levels of global cybersecurity—Chris’s path is anything but typical.

But the real turning point?
A moment of devastating loss that forced him to confront something he never had before: a lack of control.

This conversation dives deep into:

• What builds true resilience
• Why discipline is the foundation of success
• How humility keeps you grounded at the top
• And why the hardest moments in life often shape your greatest purpose

If you’re chasing growth—in business, leadership, or life—this one will stay with you.

 Key Takeaways

1. Discipline is the Ultimate Advantage

Chris wasn’t the smartest or most naturally gifted—but discipline became his edge. Small, consistent actions compound into elite performance.

2. Humility is What Sustains Success

Talent might get you noticed—but humility is what keeps people trusting you, following you, and investing in you.

3. You Don’t Attract Luck—You Position Yourself for It

Opportunities don’t just happen.
Chris built skills and showed up consistently—so when opportunity came, he was ready.

4. There Are Levels to Everything

From military experiences to business leadership, one lesson stood out: There’s always another level—stay humble and keep learning.

5. Your Lowest Moment Can Become Your Defining One

The loss of his daughter changed Chris forever.
It shifted his perspective from control → faith, and from achievement → purpose.

6. Balance Drives Performance

Discipline without humility leads to ego.
Humility without discipline leads to stagnation. The combination is where elite leaders live.

7. Leadership is About Creating Thinkers, Not Followers

Great leaders don’t just give answers—they build people who can solve problems on their own.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hey everyone, Jeff Hope here, host of Interesting Humans Podcast. Before we jump into today's episode, I want to give you a little context. This conversation originally aired on another podcast I owned called 20 Minute MBA, where I sat down with business leaders and entrepreneurs and asked them the same four questions to uncover the lessons behind their success. As I've continued to build interesting humans podcasts, I've decided to bring some of those powerful conversations over here. Because at the end of the day, great stories and great people belong in one place. Today's guest is Chris Juler, CEO of Cyberist Cybersecurity, who you may also recognize from episode 23 of Interesting Humans Podcast. In this conversation, you'll hear his journey, the mindset that shaped his leadership, and some hard-earned lessons around trusting your gut and taking risks. Let's go ahead and get started. All right, folks, welcome back to another episode here of the Interesting Humans. And today I've got with me Chris Schuller. Chris is just uh he's gonna tee up and deliver an incredible message today. There's so much hope in this story. Um, and I want to I do want to start off, Chris, by saying thanks. First off, I really appreciate this. The audience is gonna just get so much value out of this show. And uh I want to start off by saying um how I know Chris. So Chris and I met um about in in around 2010. My wife, who's a fourth degree black belt, had the great privilege of instructing uh two two or all all of you, all of you all my daughters, all of your daughters in uh in Taito Karate. And then from there, sort of the rest was history. We became friends. We um we I had brought a bunch of people to your office that some you hired, some you used as contractors, and we just built built a really good relationship. So again, I do want to say thanks, Chris. And I think what the audience you know can is really gonna get out of today, um, for they're gonna get incredible stories, they're gonna get awesome, awesome hope and encouragement. But I sort of I want to say these three things. They're gonna really extrapolate discipline, attitude, and humility, okay, in that order. And I like to say it like this if if you're driving, if you're uh floating down the river in a in a kayak and you're you're going back and forth and you got discipline on one side and you've got attitude on the other side, and you but you want to get the kayak to level out. Some people go like, just turn this one up, or just turn this one up. But here's what's interesting about you out of all these accomplishments, and you are decorated, you take that brick to lay in the back of the boat, the back of the kayak to level it out. That brick for you is humility. And that's that's why you're here. Okay. Yeah, that's why you're here. So your your accomplishments, you started off with uh a decorated career in the army, and then you worked in as a civilian in the Pentagon, which we're gonna get into some of those stories, and you were doing cyber before cyber was cyber. Yeah, like we we weren't even talking about that, right? And then you know, your father of and and such a proud father, you wear that hat every day, which is just so cool, makes me emotional, but you you are so into that role. Um but what's just off the charts is a text that you got not long ago that said from Robert Hershebeck on Shark Tank, Chris, you're my guy. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah, kind of surreal. Um you know, uh uh someone told me when I was young in my career, and other people have used it as well, right? But I like to think a lot of times um you know, you don't necessarily, you know, wish for luck or or get lucky. I think it's like you gotta put yourself in a position to attract luck. Um but you know, my my whole career has been in cyber. I mean, 20 plus years outside of my military days.

SPEAKER_07 4:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Um, but you know, I'm I'm a CEO today, currently, of a uh a large cybersecurity but focused on identity. And uh I got a message out of the blue, like, hey, we're interested in you in something else, but you know, we can't tell you what it is. And there was an NDA and this, you know, and and rightfully, um, because they didn't want it to actually get out there until they figured out like what is the plan. Right. And this current CEO, founder, absolute legend, Titan was on board with this is the guy who I'm gonna hand over this Ferrari to, you know. Oh my gosh. Um yeah, so I'm um it's kind of surreal, like it really hasn't hit me, which is I guess like that 10-pound weight. Yeah. Because in in some ways, like I'm scared to death.

SPEAKER_05 4:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Right. In other ways, like I couldn't be more excited because I feel like, you know, as an athlete, like I've trained for this day.

SPEAKER_08 5:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Like I put the work in, uh, the muscle memory's there, my body's in perfect condition, my mind's in perfect condition. Like, so there's this balance kind of in that same kayak experience. I'm like, like, let's go. And like, what am I doing? Right at the same time. But yeah, in just a couple days, I take over uh a CEO of Cideris, which is a uh you know, cybersecurity, but it's a cyber detection and response, and it's all they do, that's all they do for the largest brands in the world. Um, so yes, that's a really super exciting, but at the same time, crazy nerve-wracking for once that come. Gosh, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

All right, so I like to say this on the show. You were not born the CEO of Sideris. So all these things happen to you in life. Like, so let's get to know who you are. Let's go all the way back. Tell me about like your siblings and what did life look like growing up.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Yeah, that's a man, that's it's it's crazy it's crazy. I think this is where probably the humility comes from, right? Yeah. Because like where I grew up, you know, probably an hour plus outside of Chicago, small town, no one leaves a small town. Nobody. Right? Like, if you left a small town, you're a big deal. Yeah. Um and you know, I was the youngest of three boys. Um, not not the the crazy athlete of all of them, or at least not portrayed to be, not the smartest of all of them. Um and uh, you know, obviously gapped by five and six years from them. So I literally was the baby of three big boys, right? Like my brothers are significantly larger than me. Oh, in size, too. In size. Oh wow. Six four, you know, 250, I mean massive humans, right? Um but but but I look back at at those days and like the tenacity and the grit that it built in me is what I lean on today, you know, and and in some ways, really what it built in me is this uh performance base mentality because the best way, and I love my father to death. I mean, he texted me a picture this morning at 77 in the gym, right? Like Pop's getting after it. But like for me, it was it was always, you know, how do I make my dad proud? Right? How do I get those those moments where my dad's like, you know, I'm proud of you.

SPEAKER_07 7:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

And I was always living in the shadow of two monsters or brothers, right? That were always getting the trophies and the accolades and the attention, and everybody knew them in town. So there was always this like living in the shadow of two giants, right? Um and I knew I was very different than both of them, yeah, just to like where my attention was at and how I put my focus in. Um, but it really kind of just created this, you know, this uh this grit inside of me and this performance-driven mentality that I look back, you know, so many years later, and I can see these moments now where I'm like, oh, that defined who I am today. And yeah, that taught me like when things go bad, learn from them, get better from them, yeah, and then re-rack, reboot, and then re-engage. That's incredible. And now I'm like in this cycle now where, you know, like I look back and I'm like, yeah. And then with the crazy part is, um, and we'll get into it, but you know, I was the first one to ever leave our town from our family, ever, from our whole like my father had been there for you know decades. Um and I left and it was almost like I was in some ways like forgotten in some ways. My one brother lived less than a mile away from my parents. Yeah, the other brother lived a couple miles away. Yeah, my parents were integrated within their ecosystems, watching their kids and all that, yeah, sure. And I'm here like in Georgia, right? Like, you know, hours away, almost forgotten in some way. Right. Um, and that, you know, you know, and that that to me is, you know, I look back and now all my brothers and my parents don't live in Illinois anymore. Incredible. They've all moved away. They've all moved away. Yeah. What did your parents do? Um, so my dad was uh, you know, kind of definitely blue-collar, um, worked multiple jobs, yeah, worked at a plastics company, um, on the floor, eventually kind of worked his way up into kind of you know managing uh products and and and balancing kind of materials, sure. Um, but also ran a construction company. He was the head umpire for the city baseball league. Like he my dad worked so many different jobs, and then he retired really young.

SPEAKER_08 9:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

I retired at 55, actually. Um, and uh since then has worked a ton of other jobs. He still works to this day. Sure. My mom worked at Kmart, yeah, um, was a stocker retailer at Kmart. Oh, cool. And uh and she hung it up um at you know, I think around 50 as well. Yeah. Um, yeah, and the the crazy part is like three brothers, huge people. My dad's not a not a small guy. Yeah, um, and we grew up in a 900 square foot house with one bathroom.

SPEAKER_03 10:04

Oh, that's you know, so like and guess what? Guess who got the cold shower, Jeff? Oh, your showering last week.

SPEAKER_04 10:11

All right, well that that lays a good foundation, man, for the you know, the springboard, like for sure, which is which is incredible.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

What did sports look like? Yeah, I mean, I was that that's where I found like my identity in many ways. Okay, like I wasn't great, and I think I had some learning disabilities when I was a kid, but it was undiagnosed. Yeah, um, but I definitely was not great academically, yeah, and I found success in sports. So I was, you know, every sport I wanted to pour myself into. You know, you know, four-year varsity and wrestling and played football and did track, uh, was a pole vaulter, like everything to me revolved around sports. Yeah, like everything. And that was again kind of back to that performance mentality of like me trying to get trophies to show my father of my worth. Yeah, right. Like, look, dad, like I'm the captain of the varsity team, right? Like, look, dad, I won this tournament. Yeah, and my dad was so proud. I mean, like the some of the best moments was like when I would win and like come back to my dad and get that hug, you know. And I had this the most amazing supportive mother that anyone could possibly have. I mean, I'm literally was was a mama's boy, right? Who used to help me, like even help me do my homework, yeah, right? Because I couldn't do my own homework. I wasn't, you know, like equipped enough for it. Right. Um, but yeah, sports were I mean, it was everything for me when I was a kid. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

Then college, what how'd you make that decision?

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yeah. I mean, it was, you know, uh, I was supposed to go because my brothers went to the military right out of high school. Okay. And my dad was in the military, so you know, the military ecosystem. What branches were they? Um, all army. All army. Yeah, all army. Wow. And my mom was like adamantly against me going to the military because she'd already dealt with two boys and both had served in wars, and she was like, I can't do this again. You're the baby. I want you to go to college. Um, and that was the route. The route was go to college, even though I didn't feel like I was equipped to go to college because I didn't feel academically I was gonna survive, but I I felt like I probably could do pretty well if I went to a college and and wrestled.

SPEAKER_06 12:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Um, so we were going on that path, and then there was this like, you know, monkey on your shoulder, if you will, whisping in your ear, right? And and you know, as a as a Christian, I don't know like what that voice was, yeah, right? I I do believe it was in some ways God kind of calling me to cancel a potential demon, and that was you know, looking back and saying, if I hadn't went in the military, would I have ever been treated the same as my brothers and my dad who had served, right? Oh so because of that, I listened to it and I was like, you know, I I gotta do it. I just have to. Like it's four-year commitment. I don't know what's what's to hold, but like I'll get back to college. I told my mother, I was like, mom, I just I can't not be the only brother who doesn't serve. Like, I gotta do it. And it was probably the best decision. I mean, truly.

SPEAKER_06 13:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Um, in hindsight, I wish I probably wouldn't want to go to college first and then went in, you know, as an officer. Yeah. Um, because I quickly realized like I actually was pretty smart because I started to apply myself in the right ways. Right. I started to realize, like, hey, I'm as smart as these officers. Yeah. And uh that's kind of what drove me, you know, further in my career. But but yeah, that kind of what jumped me into that. Um, and then I'll just tell you like, you know, you fast forward to getting out of the military. And again, now that I've like switched on, I know, hey, like you're actually pretty sharp. Yeah. You can get stuff done. People rely on you, not just for your athleticism. Um, I went to college and got my degree done in three years, right? Like 16 to 18 hour classes, worked full time, yeah. Um, got married young. Yeah. My wife was on bed rest my senior year of college for six months with our baby, you know. I still got I still got A's.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

Right. Right? Still still survived. Like, yeah, I looked back and I was like, maybe I wasn't that as dumb or you know, as like slow as I thought I was. Right.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

It was just an application thing. Somewhere you that that message was planted in your brain somewhere that you're you're you're not enough.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

But totally. What's your alma mater? Um uh well, NIU was where I went to my undergrad. Okay. Um, and that's a a college about 45 minutes uh north of Chicago. Okay. Um and my wife went to the same school with me.

SPEAKER_07 14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Um and then I went incredible. I I wanted to continue my my education. I felt like, hey, this is working for me. Sure. And I went right into my MBA just after that at Auburn.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

M NBA Auburn.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

NBA Auburn.

SPEAKER_04 14:45

How did you meet your wife again? At school or after?

SPEAKER_01 14:47

No, like man, God's God's incredible with his stories uh that he he he knits together. But um my wife was actually going to school at Penn State and happened to be in Savannah, where I was stationed in the military, um, to see her mother in a sabbatical, like in between semesters. Okay. And I happened to bump into her, like through mutual friends. And of course, like, you know, she was raised in she's uh Pennsylvania Dutch and Colombian, right? So you know, big cheekbones, definitely stands out in the crowd. Yeah. Um, but yeah, we we uh we got married at 21. Literally at the end of my military active duty military career, yeah, we got married. We were just so in fat inf emphatically in love with each other that I was like, I just can't live without you. Yeah. Um that's incredible. Yeah, and then well, this the surreal story, and again, like how God and Etsy stories together, but the surreal story is we elope. Like, like I was so in love with her that I was like, you know, babe, like let's just get married. Yeah, and the military will pay for housing for me. We just won't tell anybody. And then eventually we'll like get engaged and we'll officially get married, right? Yeah, and we thought like that was the plan. Well, then God decided, like, okay, I have a different plan for you. So, first of all, my mother was managing my bank account because I was being deployed a lot and I couldn't take care of my bills. So my mom ran my bank account and paid all my bills for me. Um, and my mom noticed, hey, there's an $800 increase in your paycheck. Like, you're not on active duty airborne jump pay, like, what's going on here? And uh, so you know, we had to drive up on the weekend and surprise my parents, and then my wife's father, Jeff, and it gets worse. It gets worse. My wife's father was a missionary in Honduras, right? And we eloped and didn't tell him. And then, not even a month later, after eloping, I get called in my commander's office, and he tells me, hey, Chris, uh, I don't know how this has happened. Um, we've never sent anybody there, but uh, you're going to Honduras on active duty for assignment to help run these DEA missions and support them as one of only 20 Army guys, right?

SPEAKER_03 17:01

And oh by the way, oh by the way, Jeff, it gets one level worse. It's 45 minutes away from your father-in-law. Oh right? What the channel is. So, like, I mean, that's when you feel like, okay, now there's there's there's definitely like this isn't me. This is not me. Like, this is surreal.

SPEAKER_04 17:20

That's incredible. Yeah. All right. One great story from the military days.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Oh man. Um, so many amazing stories. I mean, like, again, like I don't I don't regret those days at all. And I encourage any, you know, young, young men, women that are trying to find who they are. Like, you know, look at me. Like, I found who I was. I knew I wanted to do, I knew what I was capable of, but probably the one that that is the most humbling for me is uh, you know, I was one of those guys that like I loved physical fitness, I would max my PT test. I was like, you know, did all the military schools. I thought, I thought in many ways I was, you know, like indestructible.

SPEAKER_08 18:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Right? I I really did. Um and we went on this mission, we came home in uh back in in Honduras, and we were back kind of in in what we called hooch, and we were in a hooch. And um, the military uh allows you when you're not deployed to you know have beverages, beers, and all that kind of stuff. And we were celebrating, right? Great, great time, and you know, all these service members, and we had Navy guys, Navy SEALs there, and special forces guys. Um, and everybody's you know, when when you have a few beverages and you get a little bit inebriated, which you know, those weren't my finer days in that regard, but you start talking big stories as guys, right? And we're talking a whole lot of smack. And of course, like I was with my buddies, we're talking a lot of smack about some of these Navy SEALs and SF guys to say, like, you don't even know what it's like, right? Like your pre- Madonna's pretty boys, and uh it's like 3 a.m., Jeff, right? And we've been drinking since like, I don't know, eight, maybe seven post-barbecue. So like we weren't in any shape, right? Right? And literally one of the special forces guys goes, Okay, guys, you think you're that tough? You know that mountain outside of our base. Yeah, let's go climb that mountain tomorrow morning, that mountain tomorrow morning. And we were like, done. Easy, done, we're gonna run up that mountain, right? Like, because you know, again, like you know, you're you're talking smack, like you think, like, you know, ah, we're just you know, we're just BSing, right? Right. So we get home at like 4 a.m. Jeff, 5 30 a.m. I hear this banging on my door, right? I've been asleep an hour. I think I'm I'm hearing things, right? I bow bah bah bah bah. Yeah, wake up, shuler, wake up. So I open the door. Here is all of them fully dressed with gear, ready to go hike the mountain.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

I just got that feeling of one hour of sleep.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

I thought I was I thought I was dreaming. Right, right. Like, oh my gosh, I'm I'm I'm drunk. Yeah, I'm still sleepy. Oh and here they are ready to run. Ready to go. Right? And like you know, you know you can't not go. Right. Like you're like, okay, right? Like, I'm not getting back in bed. I'll never live that down.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Never. So I was like, all right, give me, give me 20 minutes. So like you got 10. Okay, right. So, yeah, and oh, by the way, all my other buddies were doing the same thing I was doing. They were all sleeping. Oh, so this this is like the biggest humble pill, right? So we we get out there, we start hiking up the mountain. Of course, like they're just talking non-stop, right? Because one get one buddy throws up, another buddy throws up, like we're dry heaving, sweating, we didn't bring enough water. What was the weather? Um it was I mean, it's it's hot, humid, yeah, like the humidity down there is is insane. Um, and we finally make it, right? And of course, like we thought for sure there's no way, right? Yeah, and and and of course, like, you know, the whole time you're just like regretting every decision. You're like, never again am I gonna talk, you know, these stories. Yeah, and then the craziest part, Jeff, so all that was insane. Then we get to the top of the mountain, and there is a black hawk helicopter on top of the mountain, right? And we're thinking, oh, what's going on? Right? And then we start walking toward the Blackhawk, and like the whole crew's already out of the black hawk, like in chairs. They had loaded up a cooler of beer and food, and we're already setting up a barbecue on top of the mountain just for this team coming in. Oh my god. Jeff, in an hour, in an hour, from going to bed to waking us up, they had already orchestrated this whole thing. Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Because they were like, it's game time. So then I realized there's levels to this thing.

SPEAKER_06 21:51

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Right? And like be careful on the levels that you're playing with because there's levels to this game.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

But that's the one I always remember, like, whenever I get I hear guys talk. Talking like smack and stories. Right. It brings me back to like 1997 in Honduras, where I got the biggest humble sandwich of my life. Right. And now like I always undersell and overdeliver.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Right. Since that day. Undersell, overdeliver, man. We were in a barbecue at what, 7 a.m. It was like, it was about probably 8, 8, 8, 8. 8 a.m. 8 a.m. I think that's a good thing. First beer of the day, 8 a.m. Correct. Correct. That's incredible. I was still sick. I didn't have a beer. Water, hydration. It was like, I just need to survive, man. So glad I asked that question.

SPEAKER_04 22:35

I'm so glad I asked that question. I almost glossed right over like not asking about that. So bad. Military. Oh my goodness. All right. So you get out.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

Uh you did four years?

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah, four years active. And I had I did another four years in the in the reserves. Okay. But got stop loss from 9-11. I had to stay in four more years. So 12 years total service. Um what I did, like again, kind of some of the things I did in the military, particularly around like information operations. Yeah. Um, that that was like one of the key MOS's they wanted to make sure they keep on to. Yeah. Um, but yeah, had did a 12 years totals total service. 12 total. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

Okay. What so that that last for like during 9-11? I mean, were you?

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Yeah, that was I mean, that was yeah, I mean, it was um so you know, when I got out uh and went to went to college is really when I started to lean into like IT in general. Okay. And I started to identify like really in 98, 99, that within IT there was this like information assurance problem. Right. So think of like risk, like how does risk occur in an IT world, right? Well, it's usually around data and access, and there was nobody looking at that stuff at all. And the military was just starting to invest in that, like for its war fighters and such. Um, so I really started to lean into that, and we we actually created in in 98, 99, we created the first information operation commands in the army. Um, and and it was actually I give uh the generals and and uh civilian leaders like all the credit in the world. And most people don't even know this, but um, they for the first time actually leaned into the civilian side of the military and said, you know what, most of our reservists and national guard people in the private sector are doing these things. We can't ramp up and scale fast enough, active duty-wise. Yeah, right? And like there's not you can't sign contracts and bring people in quick enough, especially in the warfighter world. So let's actually lean into our reservists and national guards that are doing these jobs and let's create commands for these people so that instead of like active duty uh two weeks at two weeks a year when you're in the reserve, you can serve. Yeah, instead of doing that, yeah, let's deploy them on weekends throughout the year to active duty installations and overseas to actually help protect and create these protections around both our um CONUS networks and OCONUS, particularly warfighter networks. Yeah. And uh so that's what I did literally for all those years in the reserves. Wow. I was like working active duty, doing college full time, and then I would literally fly out on a Friday, yeah, spend Saturday, Sunday at Fort Bragg or Fort Carson, and just like pen test, scan, help the IT team remediate, fly back home Sunday night or Monday morning and go right back to work again. Incredible. That was like 98, 99, 2000, right? So it got me really into this industry that's the craze today. Yeah. Um, but all because like, you know, there was a need. Wow. I found the need and I started investing myself in it. And then obviously opportunity came with the uh the military investing in us.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

And then the okay, awesome. The last so that last four years ended, what what was the year? And then you did you go to the Pentagon right after that?

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Yeah, so that was you know another um it was in 02 actually. So like in conjunction with um in this IOC command, an opportunity came up, particularly in the Army, focusing on the Army and the reserves, okay, was they wanted an information assurance leader. So like one person to run the whole program. Okay. Um, and and we started, I started focusing exclusively on the reserves. Okay, right? Because if we can get this right, it's gonna be applicable to everything else. So yeah, started in 02, um, really being an information assurance program leader. I had a team of like five people. Yep. And then fast forward, like almost four years later, well, three years later actually, um, had the very first security operations center ever built in the Army, right? Which blueprinted that was replicated throughout all the Army. Um, had a team of, I don't know, like 300 people working for me in just a couple years. Um and uh deploying like the first, you know, kind of uh analytics, if you will, around data to find threats and vulnerabilities and identify truly like hackers coming in to the warfighter networks and the Oconas, the domestic networks. Um yeah, incredible. I mean, like, you know, it's it's one of those, again, like being in the right place, the right time, but having the right knowledge, right? Like, I mean, Jeff, I was 25, right? 24, 25 years old. Like, no one should be listening to me.

SPEAKER_08 27:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Especially not like an SES2, which is uh equivalent to like a two or three-star general in the civilian world, right? They shouldn't be listening to some 20-year-old kid. And I was a kid, yeah, right, but but they, you know, there's a lot of trust because like things that I said happened. Yeah, right. There was definitely like technical competence, yeah. That was like this evolution of constantly learning and leaning in and um, and then just you know, being a guy who gets stuff done, right? Like, I think they saw that in me and they kind of brought me up and gave me these elevated roles. Yeah. So I was the director of you know, the very first crewed operations center for the army at like 25 years old.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

And that was at the that was the Pentagon. Yeah. What's it what's it like being in there?

SPEAKER_01 28:13

I mean, it was it was crazy. I mean, a lot, a lot of it's interesting too, because like a lot of the decisions happens in the Pentagon, but all the work happens in Crystal City, right? So it's like this this separation of the two. And then in uh in 03 and 04, we decided that, you know, this is um a lot of it's because of like 9-11 and such, but we decided, you know what, we need to create these dark data centers throughout the US, yeah, so that there's not like an epicenter of like what happened with the World Trade Center when like 40% of the internet went down, right? Because it was in the basement of World Trade Center, which is where MCI was. Um we built actually, that's what got me to Georgia. We built the data center, a dark data center in Peachtree City. So I went from like Pentagon Crystal City to all of a sudden living in Peachtree City, building a dark data center and literally creating a security operations center removed from the Pentagon remotely, yeah, in in literally in Peachtree City, Georgia, that nobody knew. Like no signs on a building, right? Nothing.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Nothing, you wouldn't even know what was in there.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Oh yeah, like you wouldn't even know what was in this building. Wow. Um yeah, it was uh And you lived there? Yeah, lived in Peachtree City.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

In Peachtree City.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Yeah, and you used to just bounce. I mean, I would it's great living there because you're only 15 minutes of the airport, but yeah, you bounce back and forth to DC and back to here, and then the Army's intelligence is located in Fort Wachuca, Arizona. So you used to bounce bounce to Arizona as well.

SPEAKER_04 29:38

Oh my god. Is that still here in Peachtree City?

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Uh no, not anymore. They've moved it, yeah. They moved it now with some with cloud and everything else. You don't need like to hug your server all the time. It's probably somewhere so cool right now.

SPEAKER_04 29:49

I won't even ask you where because we I'm sure we can't talk about it. But okay. So what happens after that then?

SPEAKER_01 29:57

You Yeah. Um yeah, so like now I'm kind of like uh in some ways weaponized, yeah, right, running cyber programs. Yeah, and I get this phone call from uh a recruiter, which had never gotten recruited.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

Yeah. Really, like what year are we in here just for um this is in 05.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Okay, so 05. So cyber's not really on the not out in the world, yeah. Not not in the not in the mainstream. Okay, so like fintech companies are investing in it, yeah. Military's heavily invested in it. Okay, and that's pretty much the Joe public doesn't know anything about it. No perspective. Got it. Like you may know about like phone freaking back in the days, right? But not um this is like right at the entrance of like when the blaster worm and slammer worm and all that shut down email. Okay. So I get this phone call from a recruiter, and they're like, hey, we know what you do, we know all about your army career. Um, we're looking for someone like that, and we want someone to come in and build that for us. There's this company called Internet Security Systems based here in Sandy Springs. Um and uh I had never like never interacted with the private sector ever, right? So intriguing, but I've been in the military career my my or military life my entire career, right? So I was like, I'll at least go for an interview, you know? And in the middle of the interview, um they were like, you gotta talk to this one guy who like runs the whole managed services. Um, he's gonna love you, and you gotta talk to him. Um this uh conversation with this guy, Rick Miller, and he's like, You're my guy. That's literally what he tells me. He's like, You're my guy. Um, I need what you got. Like, this is the sort of thing we need to build out. And uh started working for ISS um as a director of security operations for ISS, which was like uh one of the one of the products that we actually used in the military to scan networks. They were known for their vulnerability scanning tool. Okay, and they were just building out really how to manage security operations for customers, so outsourcing the security operations. Um, so started doing that in 05, and then literally a year later, IBM swoops in, right? And wants to partner with us, naive. So I'm presenting about all these things that we're doing with the security operations, with our products, and then like all of a sudden they bring me in a room and they're like, Oh, yeah, by the way, like they're not partnering with us, they're actually gonna be acquiring us. So then, you know, I become an IBMer like within the next, I don't know, two or three months.

SPEAKER_04 32:25

And that's how you got into IBM, was you got acquired. Yep, that's right. So now you're an employee of IBM.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yeah, and then you're doing what that and yeah, that was the another like kind of military story where IBM also realized that like we can't innovate fast enough. We need to actually do some reverse integration. So instead of like acquiring and assimilating, let's actually take all of our cyber information assurance assets and give them to this new acquisition that we made, right? So they bought you know ISS for a couple billion bucks, yeah, super high horsepower company, yeah, great leadership, right? Chris Klaus, Tom Noonan, right? Legends in Atlanta that we all know. Um, and they leaned into us hard. They gave, so I literally overnight, I maybe had 300 people, I had 700 people. Like everybody, anybody that had anything to do with anything remotely looking like security operations centers, all of a sudden it worked for me. And you're 30 probably at the time-ish. Young. Yeah. 28, 29, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:24

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Yeah, like, you know, and of course, like at the time, IBM was definitely like older, right? Like a lot of people, mid-50s, late 50s. Um, so you're coming in, Lily is this like you know, late 20s guy who like everybody wants a part of because like security operations now is starting to become mainstream and starting to become a thing that clients want. And all of the you know, massive IBM clients, they all wanted to have that integrated in their portfolio services. So yeah, I went from you know flying back and forth to DC or to Arizona and occasionally on the weekends and my reserve days, yeah, to all of a sudden flying every week around the globe. Wow. Um, I think I flew like my first year, I flew maybe a million and a half miles in the first year of acquisition with IBM. Yeah, and then it just sustained. Like for the next 15 years, I probably flew an average of a million and a half miles um yeah, a year. Unbelievable. Insane. I mean, like, there's so many, so many countries I even forgot I've been to. Yeah. How about it?

SPEAKER_02 34:29

But my kids are like, oh, you know, like whatever in Manila or Thailand, and I'm like, oh, I was there one time.

SPEAKER_04 34:36

I was there one time, maybe even twice. Yeah. There's a word you've used many times, information assurance. Yeah. So two things. Define it, like it sounds like it's a word that came up a long time ago. And then what does it look like today? Is it still called that or is it something different?

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Yeah, so I mean, information assurance essentially is is morphed into cybersecurity.

SPEAKER_04 34:56

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Right? So the way that we looked at it before was like, how do you protect information? Okay. Which today we would say data.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

Like web, you're talking okay, data.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Yeah, the data itself. That kind of how do you protect the data? Like, what's the the ecosystem? So one of the things I helped uh in the military is there's a thing that we call defense in depth, right? So defense in depth is something I helped kind of co-author to say like there's layers of protection, right? Like you have cameras outside of your house with motion detection. Yeah, you have locks on your doors, you have motion inside of your house. Yeah, you have a dog, right? You have two big huskies, right? And then next to your bed, you probably have your own protection. Yeah, right. And you also have protocols probably in your house that, like, hey, if the alarm goes off in the middle of the night, what do we do, family? Yeah, right? Wow. So like all these are like protection levels in defense and depth. And that really is what's morphed into cybersecurity, what it is today. And it really is treated the same way.

SPEAKER_08 35:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Like you have all your assets that you own, assets you integrate or integrate with. So that really is what cyber really is doing is creating all those protections.

SPEAKER_07 36:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

And then the detections, which are looking for the anomalies, which, like, if you have your Google nest or your ring, yeah, right, where they're like, hey, somebody strange came by your house at 2 a.m. Right and slowly drove by. Maybe they were scoping out your your neighborhood or something.

SPEAKER_07 36:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

So those are the sort of things that you know we built into defense in depth, and now cybersecurity has taken over as you know, the thing that we do.

SPEAKER_04 36:26

That makes sense though. Tell tell me about some books you've you you've read.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Yeah, so that was as part of this job. I recently went through this uh psychometrics, and you guys should should look that up if you're listening. Psychometrics. Psychometrics. Um, but I was recommended this book because I talked about a cold plunge. Okay. Right? Of like, I'm waiting to get a cold plunge, and it's part of my kind of discipline routine, and and I've heard all the great benefits of it, and I'm a life hacker in general, right? And and she said, uh, I have this book for you, and it's not about the physical benefits, it's the mental benefits and the mental awareness that you have with a cold plunge, and you should read it. It's called Dopamine Nation. And I would highly recommend this book to anybody. Okay, it's absolutely fascinating. And essentially the the summary of the whole book, the punchline of the book is essentially anything you do, anything you do in excess, can be excess dopamine, which is a drag. Right? So anything you do, right? So if you cold plunge too much, right, the benefits of cold plunge can become dopamine, can become negative, right? So it it really what it did to me is it kind of was like this amazing awareness of like, you know, a lot of things that we do with that are good, we're like, we're gonna do them every day.

SPEAKER_08 37:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Well, the problem doing it every day is it doesn't turn into the benefit that you would hope. It actually creates the negative dopamine drag, right? Which then reduces your serotonin, and then it becomes this counteractive thing where it's a beast that you have to feed. Then if you don't feed it, the beast takes over. So the book just impacts that whole thing and it goes through. She's she's a psychiatrist, she goes through case by case by case. But again, like my biggest takeaway was like, you know, I'm I'm an extreme guy. Like I do one thing and I do it amazing, and I go like inch wide, mile deep.

SPEAKER_07 38:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

And what that book told me was like, be careful on the mile deep, don't let it take over, because then it becomes that dopamine drag, and you gotta feed the beast, otherwise you don't feel like yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

Is that like a physical? You're saying a physical drag.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Yeah, physical, no, mental, more mental.

SPEAKER_04 38:39

Okay, ment. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Yeah, it's like it's like the met it's like the whole book is on the mental side. Uh-huh. So it starts with everything, like it's case-by-case studies of you know, people who have addictions and how that how to solve the addiction problem. It's incredible. But then it backs out into you know the cold plunge craze. Yeah. Right? Where like you read Huberman, and Huberman's an amazing, you know, uh uh uh bio scientist, and and really like you know, between him and Peter Atier are my two sources of all things lifestyle related and health and longevity. But he even says like you only need to cold plunge like three days a week. That's it. Three days a week for like three to five minutes all you need to do. Not every day. Not every day, right? Because again, it's it's not the physical benefits anymore, it's the mental benefits. Now all of a sudden, if you're only doing it for the mental benefits, it's feeding that dopamine, which is then has that negative drag throughout the day. So yeah, dopamine nation, highly recommend it. Audible. It's the way that read all my books around.

SPEAKER_04 39:37

I'll be order ordering that one today. Yeah, that's fantastic. Wow. Okay, incredible. Just looking back at your life, not necessarily professionally, not necessarily personal. It can cover the two. Is there a turning point that you can look at?

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Yeah, I would say like um Yeah, I mean, you know, the the the turning point in my entire life was uh uh 25. Um my wife and went through multiple miscarriages, uh we finally got pregnant, good, the bumps coming, yeah, right. I'm still in college, but like you know, things are great, right? Like she finished her degree, she's starting to work, she was a teacher, um six months pregnant, things are still looking good. Um and then in the middle of the night, you know, water broke, and we're rushing to the hospital, you know. We're we're you know, we have really no family was around us, don't know what's going on. And you know, fast forward we give birth. Our daughter doesn't make it through the first day. Um and that was that was that was the the most um lowest part of my entire life that like you know maybe brings emotions even even now to this day because I remember the moment in the room like holding your baby, and you've been waiting for a baby, and you finally get the baby, and you know that the baby's not gonna not gonna make it, right? Yeah, and we had this most beautiful baptism for, but you know, and I was a seeker at the time, I wasn't a Christian. Um but I walked out of the room and we had been going to a church, and mostly for my wife wanted us to go to this church, yeah. And man, God had the pastor sitting outside of our room waiting for me. I mean, I walk out of the room and I'm like, imagine, like up to this point, everything in my life, Jeff, I've controlled. Everything, I've controlled everything. Like, I want to be the best athlete, I was, I want to be the best in the military, I was. And in that moment, like the lowest of low was like, I control nothing. I can't even take care of my daughter, you know? So it was this lowest moment for me in my entire life. And then here's my pastor sitting there, and just like that shoulder to lean on. And and at that moment, like literally, like it changed everything in my whole life because like I realized I couldn't control it. I realized my faith is everything, Jesus is everything. Yeah, and from that point forward, like I think it's like everything in my life started to kind of come in balance because I knew like you're not really in control. Stop trying to control, right? And and your motivations are not aligned with like the motivations that really are aligned with where your faith is. Right. And just every, I mean, literally, I look back 20 years, 20, I'm 48, so 22 years later, and I can see that moment in that room, and and I see like the calling that God had on me my whole life from Honduras to my wife, bringing me there in that room, you know, with my daughter. So it was, you know, I I recently I've been wanting to get a tattoo for 20 plus years, but I've never gotten it. I finally in this transition decided I'm doing it, and uh it's it's to celebrate my family, but I got a halo put on to remind me of my first daughter, Kristen. Um and fast forward a year later, and I had my first girl, Bella. Right? So like one year later, but yeah, that was the you know, to to make it, I mean not make it too serious, but like that was yeah, that was the moment, man, that you know, I look back and I'm like, God, like like you, you stamped your approval on me at that moment and said, now you're mine. Yeah, right? Now I know you're gonna listen to me. Yeah, and and since that point, like I just I see him in everything I do, even at this job. I see this like it was perfectly created just for me to step into a titan, a giant, a shark's shoes. You know? It's incredible. Never in a million years would I've thought like I'd be in this position, but you know, God's put me here, man. That's it's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 43:41

Wow. Well, what a story. Well, is there any one or several things you'd say that like really shaped you into into who you are today?

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Yeah, I mean, I I think the um the discipline that I learned like in sports and you know, not being good at something like skill. School.

SPEAKER_08 44:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Right? Like that first semester in college.

SPEAKER_08 44:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

I I wanted to quit.

SPEAKER_08 44:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

You know, like I wanted to quit. Like it was hard. I'm like getting tutored. I'm like, this, I don't get this. Yeah. You know, like I didn't want to do it. Um, I would say discipline has been an anchor to me. Like, I'm I've never been the guy that like closes the bar down, goes to client dinners, and like wants to celebrate. Or I've always been like the discipline, like, no, no, no, I gotta wake up tomorrow morning. Right. I gotta work out, I gotta be my best. Um, because you know, we like our bodies, like they're there, it's a temple, man. Like, you gotta take care of it, otherwise it's gonna fail. And we rely on it, especially when you travel so much, yeah. You can't afford to get sick. So I would say discipline is is is that one. And then the humility side of it, I'll just tell you, and shout out to my my my beautiful bride, because like she's the one that that reinforces it in me. But um, man, you need someone in your life that is gonna call your BS.

SPEAKER_06 44:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Right? Someone in your life that's gonna tell you, like, hey, yeah, like your perspective on that's not right. And it's someone that you love unconditionally, that you trust their opinion. You may not agree with it. Like there's things that she says, and I'm like, I don't agree with you.

SPEAKER_06 45:10

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

But trust me, like that resonates in your brain. Yeah. And you're like, you look, if you're if your better half is telling you that, like you probably should listen. Yeah. Right? So I think those two things for me, it's like, you know, the discipline um is just like allowed me to perform at the level I perform. Yeah. And the flip side is is, you know, obviously in the the having the equilibrium of my wife, keeping me kind of balanced the whole time and keeping me rooted into like who I really am. Um, yeah, that's what's really shaped me into kind of who I am. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 45:44

All right. So let's talk a little bit about your discipline routine. What does that look like each day?

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Yeah, I mean, it's it's uh it's evolved. I mean, so much. I used to be just uh wake up and grit and just go lift weights. Um uh, you know, mutual friend of ours, uh BARTUS. Yeah. Right? When we had when you anointed that again, like knowing people and connecting. Yeah. Remember the question I asked him, I think maybe you had laughed, but I said, like, what would be the one thing that you would do differently if you were my age? And this was years ago. Yeah. And John said two things. He said, get a Peloton, start biking, and get a cardiologist.

SPEAKER_04 46:20

Cardiologist. I remember that. Remember that moment?

SPEAKER_01 46:23

I bought a Peloton that night and I went and got a calcium scan, a cardiologist, etc. Right. So that's always been like my my thing, right? Is like anything I can do to better myself, because I want to be a centurion. I want to live to 100, but I want to be someone who, as Peter Tia says, like, has quality years later in my life. So like be the grandpa that can pick his grandkids up in 80 and jump in the pool and have those quality years, right? Great book, Outlive, or Outli, I think it's Outlive or Outlast. No way.

SPEAKER_04 46:53

Peter Otia. Stacy Miller just told us last episode about Outlive.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

Incredible. No way. Incredible. But a lot of things that he does, so like that's part of my discipline, right? So it's like diet, nutrition, exercise, um, you know, getting all the preventative stuff, the body scans for skin cancer, right? Like all these things that we know is gonna get us. So that's kind of the root, right? So if that's the root of like physical performance, then it's like discipline on the spiritual performance.

SPEAKER_07 47:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Right? Having the you know, discipline to do quality time with God and having the you know, kind of meditation moments and um, and then I think it discipline and work, right? Which is, you know, again, uh one one of my strengths, I think, at work is you know, I'm I'm always fairly a cool head to every conversation. Yeah, it's very difficult. In fact, you know, because I've been in the military, I can I can say this, but I always tell people when they get excited, I'm like, hey guys, it could be a whole lot worse. People could be shooting at us right now, right? So, like, like let's take it in perspective. Like, this isn't the end of the world. Yeah. Like calm down. It's okay. Let's think about this from a different perspective. And I think that's also discipline, right? Is like knowing when to like really use two ears versus when to like fill the room with your voice. Um, that takes discipline, right? Of knowing, like, hey, I got the answer, yeah, but like I need my team to find the answer themselves. Yeah. Because if I just give them the answer, it's just gonna create that back to dopamine, that fix for them. Yeah, that they don't need to problem solve on their own. Right. So to me, it's like I I talk a lot about discipline, really because it's a whole ecosystem that like you have to live and breathe it.

SPEAKER_06 48:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

And you have to hold yourself accountable to it.

SPEAKER_06 48:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

You know, but like I I really do truly believe, and like I get bracelets for a lot of my companies that always talk about like just one percent every day, right? Is like because a lot of times like you could be negative yesterday, but if you just get one percent that day, you can control that, right? So if you're disciplined and just saying, I'm gonna be a little bit better to be like my kids, right? Yesterday wasn't a great day. Yeah, but today, like I want to spend quality time with my girls or one of my daughters and hear a story from them, or I need to be better to my wife, or at work, like you know, yesterday wasn't a great day, but today will be the day that I turn it around and I make it different.

SPEAKER_07 49:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

So to me, it's like the discipline is really what gets you through. Because there's gonna be moments, right, where you can't work out.

SPEAKER_06 49:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Right? And you and like if you're disciplined, then it's gotta be in the back of your head of like it's okay, but tomorrow I will work out and you will do it. Um, and then the last thing is I think for for me, it's I'm very much a man of my words. So like when someone does say something to me and I commit to that, like word is your bond.

SPEAKER_08 49:33

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

So when I say like I'm in, like you gotta be in. And that again is like when people aren't in that mindset, they have discipline problems. Yeah. Because like you gotta say, like, no, no, no, I committed to that. That is my that is my commitment. Yeah. I have a discipline now to make sure that I actually follow through on it. That's incredible. Um, yeah. So discipline is, I mean, I think Jocko Willis says all the time, like, discipline equals freedom. Yeah. But I think when you live it, it's not necessarily freedom to like do whatever you want. Yeah. It's like, no, no, no, it's freedom because you don't have those regrets. You don't have those things eaten in the back of your head of like, I'm not good enough. Yeah. Or like, you know, I wanted to work out, but I just can't work out. And you think less of yourself. Yeah. So I think this world just tries to beat people down all the time. Sure. Right? Like that's just the world's created to like make people feel less of themselves. And I think like people need to believe in themselves first. I think before you can love, before you can love your wife, your kids, like you gotta love yourself. Yeah, you gotta look in the mirror and be like, no, no, no, I love who you are. You know, like we're not great today because of whatever reasons, but we can be great tomorrow. Yeah, and then to me, it's just like discipline gets me there. It's like my route. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

Special. All right, so I want to end. Um, I want to end talking about what this next new chapter looks like. This is just so encouraging. Yeah. Before we do, though, I do just want to say this. I I could see now why a guy like Robert, like in hearing your entire story, going through this interview, I could see why he goes, You're my guy. Because now I see the character resemblance. I've always said this. He was always my favorite shark. Always my favorite shark. He's a compliment to the to entrepreneurs in general, to the business world. He's the show that you don't have to be like big tough guy, no matter how much money or success you've had. Like his humility comes well through that camera. You don't need to sit in a coffee shop with him for an hour to see that he's the real deal. So, like, when like a guy like that is gonna hire a guy like that. Yeah, and and it's cool now to sit here and do this and like feel it. Yeah, it's very and verify it.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

It's very true about him too, because I I'll tell you, you know, when I when I first interviewed with him, it wasn't even an interview. Like Robert literally said, like, so what do you want to know about my company? It was almost surreal to me. It kind of caught me off guard a little bit, right? Because I thought for sure like he'd be kind of grilling me. And yeah, but it was more, it was it was less about like getting to know me. He wanted to know like who I was, you know, what what what I want what I wanted to know about his company, how I could like, you know, he could see me and I I could see myself in the role. Um incredible guy, like I can't wait to get that to really get to know him because you know, board member, founder, investor. Um, you know, and I already can get glimpses of the company and like what he's created. And yeah, that's that's where my mindset has is now. Like, you know, build build on what he's created, and how do I take it to the next level, which is where we all want to get it to?

SPEAKER_07 52:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Um, because all the bones are there. Like he's done, I mean, starting from a small practice in Canada to literally like a thousand-person global powerhouse now, um, you know, with the biggest brands in the world all using their services. Yeah. I mean, absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_04 53:03

What are some of those feelings like that that like the one-word feelings, like afraid, confident, that the like unpack some of those, like going into this? You're getting ready to start this soon.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Yeah, I mean, technically, I'm kind of already doing both jobs, right? Yeah, it's like you're stepping in and they it's not like a cold start, like they want to warm start you. So, like, you know, Robert and I are spent a lot of time together uh at night on videos because he's living in Australia right now with his family. Um, super gracious in his time, but you know, we're we're really getting me ramped up. Um, yeah, so it's just for me, it's just, you know, um, he says this all the time. He says constant forward momentum, right? Is like one of one of the things that he says a lot. And I think of that like as I go into Q4, and my chairman tells me just yesterday on the phone, he's like, Hey Chris, want to make sure you know this. Like, there's one skipper in your head, but you own Q4, right? You start one October, Jeff. You like you you run businesses, right? So when your chairman says that to you, right? Like, okay, it's time we gotta go. We gotta go. So there's there is a sense of urgency with me. Yeah, like a real sense of urgency.

SPEAKER_07 54:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Um and and and in culture, right? Like, I think Robert knows it. Like, I'm gonna iterate on his culture.

SPEAKER_04 54:20

All right, folks. What an incredible, incredible interview that was. I know for me personally, gosh. Uh I had an idea what to expect, but man, you took it to the next level. Thanks. I appreciate how deep you went into these stories. Thank you. Thanks. Um I, and I think I'm gonna speak for a lot of people, wish you the best with your next venture. Um thank you. You're you're you really are. You're you're you're an interesting human and you're an incredible human. And I and I I'm so glad I got a chance to sit here and interview you. So it's always my hope, my prayer that this lands in the hands of people that are struggling in one of these areas, whether it's discipline, attitude, humility, whatever. And and you this can just be some light for them, a reminder that no matter what it is you're going through out there, it doesn't matter. You are never, ever, ever alone. Although it always feels that way. That's right. But you're just not alone. So thanks for taking uh your your time. Really, really appreciate it. And to everybody out there, um, as always, thanks for joining us. Um, we I I welcome your feedback, it's been so helpful. It's helped us, number one, rebrand the show, which is the biggest thing. Um, people had a hard time out there finding interesting humans because there's a lot of shows in and around it. So the feedback's helped me um rebrand to the Jeff Hope show, and also got some great feedback um recently on would you mind Jeff sharing in the beginning how you know these people? Because somebody had asked me, they go, Can you pay to get them on? Or and it's it's been friends and friends of friends. So Chris, thank you, thank you again. It was an it was really an honor, and um a lot of people want to say thank you for your service. I'm sure we'll see it in the comments, but thank you for your service too. Thanks. Thanks, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 56:17

Thanks for watching the Jeff OPEG show. Be sure to subscribe and follow us on all socials.