Devotion That Changes A Church

In this episode of the Sharp Podcast, we talk about Frank’s powerful experience at UPPERROOM and how it challenged our perspective on what church is meant to be.

Frank shares what stood out the most—the hunger for God, the culture of worship, and the deep commitment to serving the house of God. It sparked a real conversation: why don’t we always see this in every church?

Jay asks questions about the trip, but the conversation quickly turns deeper…
We dive into the reality that the work of the church isn’t always glamorous—it’s built on obedience, sacrifice, and a willingness to serve.

Too often, we love the idea of salvation, but struggle with what comes after.
Because while salvation is freely given through Jesus, living it out daily requires discipline, surrender, and commitment.

If you’ve ever felt like there’s “more” to your faith… this episode is for you.

#ChristianPodcast #UPPERROOM #FaithInAction #FollowJesus #ChurchCulture

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Transcript

Upper Room Sparks Big Questions

SPEAKER_01 0:00

So Frank apparently went to Dallas, Texas, and he visited a church called Upper Room. Yeah. You went there, you got to see how they do things. You got to feel the spirit and the culture and how God was kind of moving in that place. And when you were talking to me, it was like I was blown away. What was it about Upper Room that stood out the most?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

To me, like it was the worship as a whole in that place. You can tell people were obedient to what God was calling them to. Like what the Bible talks about as a true church, like edifying each other and getting under the word and the teachings and getting together and worship and prayer and praise and like that's that's what they were doing.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Everything that you found fascinating about that church was work. It's what God calls work, it's what God would call as labor. Since you mentioned that, I thought we could talk about what work looks like in a church. Since this church was so fascinating, why did them taking their gathering serious become super effective in the way they meet? Welcome to Sharp Podcast. I'm your co-host Jay. I'm Frank. And we are back with another episode. We got our Bibles open, pens in our hands. But Frank recently had an experience that blew my mind. I mean, I've never been. Blew your mind? Well, yeah, because I don't know, it's always okay. So I can give you an example of how these things blow my mind. You went somewhere that you're always seeing on TV and on your phone. Yeah. And I've experienced online dating, and when I finally see the person in real life, my mind like freaks out. It's like, oh my god, that person's real?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Oh my God, is this happening right now? This is real? And I'm always, I'm always a little star struck.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Does it ever like do are your expectations met? You know, like does it always every time you were to meet that person, was like, this is who they were? Well, I'm not married, so it hasn't been met. I think that's a great gauge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Anyways, I don't have high expectations of people, but you know what I mean. Yeah. I agree. But um, but yeah, no, I I I I just think it's pretty cool that you got to follow this place for years and admire what they're doing from afar, and then finally you got to see it in person, and not only did your admiration grow, but your love for what they're doing in God's kingdom has just, you know, yeah, really expanded. So Frank apparently went to Dallas, Texas.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

And he visited a church called Upper Room. Yeah. I did. That's like a Negro Spiritual. Right. That's a song I know you song. But, anyways, if anybody knows anything about Upper Room, they are known for their worship group. Man, you can look them up on YouTube and they're gonna have millions of views just because I don't know. I be listening to them and every song they make is just gonna just cause the tears to flow. You know, make the rivers bring water just start pouring out in you. That's actually why I got tinted windows on my car. So that no one sees my worship or no one sees my prayers. That's fair. It's a holy place. We should have tinted windows in a church, right? Yeah, but we want people to see. Yeah, I just don't want people to see me in my car. Who are you talking to? It is it is a sacred matter, intimate.

How Upper Room Runs All Week

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Frank, tell us about upper room. The first thing I want to ask you is uh how many times did you visit while you were there? Oh, a few times. A few times. Over five. Four or five times?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Yeah. We were there. We were there for like Saturday to Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Okay. And you went four or five times. Yeah. So I'm assuming they mean. No, six times. They have like service, it sounds like they have service every day or something.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah. Tuesday? Yeah, well, not service. So yeah, they have um they have service on Sundays, they have three services. So we went to the morning and then the night, but then every day, like Monday through Saturday, they have prayer rooms that are well known. Um, they stream them, and they're like just offering, you know, ministering to the Lord. Okay. Morning, noon, and night. That's what they do. Just throughout the day. Yeah, just praying. Yeah, praying, worshiping, praising. So I like that theme.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

So they're called upper room, but then they got a prayer room. Yeah. I wonder how many rooms they got, right? Throne room. That's what you could call a sanctuary. No, it was. Okay, so they man, if you went six times and you weren't even there a week, that's that's a pretty effective trip.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah, it was. Yeah, I would say we went, um, you know, we went because me and my wife don't know if we're gonna live here our whole life. Chicago, yeah. Chicago's rough.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Almost everybody I know that live in Chicago says the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah, I don't know if I'm gonna live in a few years. Yeah, so so we were we were thinking about checking out, we're gonna use our spring break to check out a place we could potentially see ourselves living in the future. But obviously, if you know anything about me and my wife, uh we're deeply rooted in the church. And um and so we were gonna go to Florida, um, and we still might one day visit. But you know, Florida always has a Florida is Florida, you know? Florida is Florida. So uh we've been we want to check out Dallas, and and that one of the things was upper room. Um because I I do follow the ministry, it's blessed me. And um, and yeah, I was like, why don't we go check out Dallas? I'm all over there. Let's go check out the church. So we did that, and it was it was it was awesome. That's what's up.

The Value Of Visiting Ministries

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Yeah, I think I I think I should start doing that more often, just visiting these ministries that I follow online.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah, you know, you know what's interesting? I don't know if you feel the same way, but I encourage people to go go to other ministries, like not church hop, but like go visit places that have impacted your life in a good way. Because there's always something like we're we're like a global church, you know? Right. So there's something that we can all experience that another place is doing, and maybe we bring it, you know, maybe we just experience it there. But I just think there's so much value in checking out, you know. We're one body of believers, so I think that's awesome. And when we were in college, whenever we would go on like road trips, because I know we went to go visit, you know, my family up in Pennsylvania, but we also would like visit other places. Um, I don't know about you, but every time I would take those trips, I always seen it as an opportunity to just spend time with God. Like whenever I go on a long drive, I'm thinking, okay, I'm gonna be in this car for this many hours, there's nowhere to go, right? There's nothing to do. So I I usually look at it as an opportunity to just be my word or be prayerful or just have a nice worship time with God. Yeah, that's the way I view long trips. So um, I do encourage it. I think it's there's some so many good things that can come from it.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

That's good. That's interesting. I mean, it's I don't know. I guess my mind doesn't work that way for some reason. My mind works in a way that if I'm gonna experience something new, let's see, you're laughing already. If I'm gonna experience something new, I I um I don't know why it just reverts to saying, I'm probably gonna be disappointed. Like let me just keep it online or something. Let me just let me just talk to this person on the phone. I don't want to see them face to face. You know, it might be it might be different or something. But um You don't want it to fall short. I don't want it to fall short, yeah. That's fair. That's why I'm fascinated by this trip that you took. You went there, you got to see how they do things, you got to feel the spirit and the culture and how God was kind of moving in that place. Yeah. And when you were talking to me, it was like I was blown away. Yeah. The bar for me was raised as to how I see God, how I love God, how I go to church, how I see the people at church. And I guess when you started explaining that to me, number one, I was fascinated. But number two, I wanted to like ask you questions because I don't know, some of us go to church and it might be a finite dull experience. Yeah. It might be an experience that we don't particularly look forward to. Maybe we see it as a chore. Maybe we see some of our churches that we go through as going through the motions. Yeah. Maybe we see it as just a part of a routine. But when I was interviewing Frank, Frank clearly stated that was not the case when he went to Upper Room. So, yeah, what was it about Upper Room that stood out the

Worship As Obedience And Expectation

SPEAKER_01 9:11

most?

SPEAKER_00 9:11

I don't know. I think for me it was just like the way, like the worship. It was the worship. And I'm not saying like just the singing. Like when I say worship, that's a part of it, but it's the way, you know, like we talked about it plenty of times before. The first time worship was mentioned in the Bible was in Abraham took up Isaac in obedience to God. Right. And so to me, like it was the worship as a whole in that place. Like people, um, people were so I feel you can tell people were obedient to God to what God was calling them to.

unknown 9:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

You know, I think we we also come from a church background, like a Christian college background, Bible college, where you know, people would stress the importance of being obedience, but it was always like it seemed like it was um it wasn't in the right hands, you know, it was more used as a weapon than to Oh, that information. Yeah. It just like just obedience, like the word obedience. It was almost like a swear word rather than like a god word. And so, um, and so yeah, like at this place, I just felt like just worship as a whole, like the way people would serve, the way people interacted, the way people came to the place. Like, like you said, sometimes we go to church and we're just like, this is a routine, like this is just what I do. Like I'm checking off a box, or you know, I'm coming and maybe I'm gonna experience something today, maybe not, and and I'm okay with that. I just felt like that wasn't the case that I feel like people went into that place with expectation. I feel like people went into that place going to seek God. I feel like people went into that place with the right intentions. I feel like people went into that place wanting to bel want to leave, you know, like transformed. Right. And and to me, it's not that like I know people there are people that go to a specific ministry and it's more of like an experience where like I'm coming just to get, just to get, just to get. But I feel like like that that wasn't it. Like I I feel like when we go like in that place specifically, and there's other ministries I've been to that were similar to this, but you go to that place and it's like you're encouraged, like like what the Bible talks about as a true church, like edifying each other and getting under the word and the teachings and getting together and worship and and prayer and praise, and like that's that's what they

The Work Of Faith And Salvation

SPEAKER_00 11:29

were doing.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

It's funny that you're talking about what I call work. I call everything you're talking about work. Everything that you found fascinating about that church was work. It's what God calls work, it's what God would call as labor. You laboring in the kingdom of God is you spending time with God, spending time with the people of God, spending time in expectation and in faith with God. You know, one of the things that I find interesting about myself, and it seems to be like a cultural theme, is that you know that there was a time I was engaged. Yeah. Now I'm getting personal now. But there was a time I was engaged, and one of the things I wasn't good at was when we were dating and we were boyfriend and girlfriend, and everything was going sweet, and we were going out to eat and having fun and cracking secret little inside jokes. All that was cool. But the moment we got engaged, it seemed like there was a shift. Okay. And the shift meaning, number one, it's getting more serious. Number two, if it's getting more serious, that means there's more implication of work. And I was not good at that work. I was not good at learning how to communicate with this person. Yeah. I wasn't good at considering the emotions she's feeling at this moment. I wasn't good at, you know, going to therapy and trying to figure out, well, how do we, you know, get this life to work? Combining two souls together is gonna be a difficult thing. And in that process, I learned about salvation. Salvation, how can I word it? I learned that salvation is easy to attain but difficult to maintain. So when you told me about this church and how there was like a sense of maturity of the people there, I thought about that season in my life. I was like, wait a second, you're telling me that this church was filled with people who were willing to do the work?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

You they were willing to pray on their own without the church, they were willing to give their money if they ever needed any offerings, they were willing to spend time in prayer throughout the week in their prayer rooms. They were willing to give up their talents and give things for free, you know, without asking for anything. They were willing to show up early for church so that they could prepare and get everything right. You tell me these people were willing to do the work for salvation. And I think that's just something that's like a theme that I've noticed in my friend group that used to go to church, that kind of straying away, or the you know, the lukewarm salvation is easy. Getting engaged is easy, even getting married is easy. But you've been married for almost five years now. Well, I already know that once you get married, the maintaining of that relationship to get stronger and stronger and stronger, that's an uphill battle. Yeah, it is. It's not easy, and it's the same with salvation. I understand that you went to an altar and got prayed for and accepted Jesus in your heart, but I want to let everybody listening know the work has just begun.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Yeah, that's so good.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

There's a scripture in the Bible that says that says that our labor is not in vain. And that also says, Let those who follow me count the cost, yeah, unless the builders build in vain. In other words, the scriptures are trying to tell us when you follow Jesus, make sure you think about how hefty this journey is gonna be, how difficult the toll is on your body and your mind and your soul, you know, because yeah, you got we gotta be willing to do the work. Yeah. Yeah. And I and I'm fascinated at how many of us want to do work in every other area. You want to go to work and work overtime and give them your best, and you put in late hours, you want to go to the gym and work out every body group seven days a week, get your calories in, count your macros, go to the grocery store. But when it comes to God, the work is not there. It's missing. And so, since you mentioned that, I thought we could talk about what does work looks like in a church. Why would, since this church was so fascinating, why did them taking their gathering seriously become super effective in the way they meet?

Why The Church Is Essential

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Because I know there might be people listening that are Christians that don't go to church. Yeah. They don't see it as a necessity. What do you say to people like that?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I mean, it is. It is. Well, because you probably have a lot to say. My bad. I took it. Well no, no, no, no. I know. I think that's I love what you said. And I I want to go to, you know, if I have it here, Ephesians 5, 25 through 27. And it says right here, and you husbands must love your wives with the same love Christ showed the church. He gave up his life for her to make her holy and clean, washed by baptism in God's word. He did this to represent her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or a wrinkle or any other blemishes. Instead, she will be holy and without fault. So to me, like, I've gone into those conversations with people regarding church and them not feeling they need to be a part of it. But the reality is when we read our word, that we each one of us make up the church, right? We're the bride of Christ, the church is the bride, we're one body, and so we we make up the church. So when you're a Christian saying, like, I don't feel like I need to belong to a church, well, that makes no sense because you are the church. So you're trying to stand alone. It doesn't make sense. The other thing is like, you know, within and I've said this before, when you're in a relationship, like when I'm married to my wife, any other relationships I have outside of that, like with my friends, if you don't honor my wife, that relationship is not gonna last. That relationship is not healthy. And so I don't understand, like, I don't understand though how like us as Christians we can do that to God. We can say that I don't want anything to do with your church, I don't want anything to do with your bride. Come on, like that. That doesn't make sense. That doesn't make any sense, it's crazy, yeah. And I think that so I don't I know that initially, right? People might have experienced hurt within the church, or people have bad experiences, whatever it looks like. And so I can understand in the beginning where someone might come from, but as you continue, like you said, like when you're walking, when not the moment of your salvation, but the moment of maintaining your salvation, right? Walking, doing the work, right? Because the word says that you need to believe in Jesus, and that belief is not just a thought or speaking of the mouth, right? But it's a heart transformation, it's a life transformation, it's it's everything is being made new, it's a faith that moves but further than you're thinking, right? And so, and so, like, you you need to move like as a believer, you need to read the scriptures and understand the importance of the church, the importance of your role attached to the body. And um, and I think it changes over time if we really get into the scriptures, because our identity will also come from being from being in the word. Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

That's powerful. I mean, maybe maybe I never thought of it that way, but if you if you really want to get to know someone well and you don't see them very often, you could talk to somebody close to them and get to know a lot about that person. You know, me knowing you tells me so much about who your wife is. And I don't even know your wife. Yeah, I don't know her like that. Yeah. I shouldn't know her like this. Yeah. But me knowing you, I know a little, I know a lot about her already. I know what she stands for, I know what she values, I know, know what she likes to eat a little bit, I know who she spends time with, I know where she likes to go, strictly because I know you. If you want to, if we want to know Jesus, that's true, you better know his church well.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

The people around you. And I mean, I don't, I'm not just saying this as some kind of facade or some theological obligation I have. I mean, it's not only an obligation, but the scripture tells us there are benefits you get from being with the church, with the people of God, gathering with them that you cannot get on your own. There's more times in the scriptures where great men and women of God were around the people of God and great things happened than when they happened alone.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Way more. I mean, it's over and over again in the Bible. I mean, it says one person could chase a thousand demons, so two should chase two thousand. Yeah. Is that what the Bible says? One could chase, no, no, no, one could chase one thousand and two could chase two thousand. That's not what it says. It says one could chase one thousand and two could chase ten thousand. Look at the power of being around a church. One could chase one thousand, two could chase ten thousand demons. It says a three-stranded cord is not easily broken. That means when you're around people, it's hard for your faith to break. That's good. When you look at the book of Acts, let's just go to one verse.

Acts Pattern For Power And Healing

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Let's go to Acts 2.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Acts 2. Let's do it. Okay, you could read it, Frank. All right. Uh 42 to 47. They joined with the other believers and devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, sharing in the Lord's Supper and in prayer. A deep sense of awe came over them all, and the apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders. And all the believers met together constantly and shared everything they had. They sold their possessions and shared the proceeds with those in need. They worshiped together at the temple each day, met in homes for the Lord's Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity, all the while praising God and enjoying the good will of all the people, and each day the Lord added to their group those who were being saved.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

I want to focus on two things first. I want to focus on, and all who believed were together and had all things in common. Verse 44. And I want to focus on uh and all came over every soul, and man, and 43 and 44, and many wonders and signs were being done to the apostles. All who believed were together and had all things in common. They devoted themselves to teaching and fellowship, and then what followed? Signs, wonders, and miracles. Yeah. Well, I well, I've never even thought this, to be honest, after reading this. But like America wants signs, wonders, and miracles, but we don't take church serious. No. We don't take gathering of people seriously. I mean, to be honest, probably some people see having service twice a week as a burden. Yeah. Some people just want to come on Sunday. Yeah, one's enough. Sunday's good, brother. That's all we need. Okay. Sunday is perfect. You try to give me during the midweek. I'm going to sleep, brother. I work tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

And don't make it too long.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Don't make it too long. You know? Muslims are meeting seven days a week, five hours a day. They need hurt. They're fasting. They're devoted. Devoted. This is the word it uses here. Devoted. Yeah. Maybe we need to see what devotion actually looks like to implement it in our lives. Yeah. So I just love that this the book of Acts teaches with so much clarity because it says, hey, they devoted themselves to the teaching of the word, fellowshipping with one another, and breaking bread in prayer. And then what happened? Signs one of the miracles broke out.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

I think that's powerful. It is. I I think there's another verse that I want to go to. You mind? No, let's go. I think let's go to James 5.16.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Let's go to James 5.16. Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and wonderful results.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Okay, so it says you may be healed. Uh-huh. Did it say pray for yourself and by yourself and you will be healed? No. In other words, there's healing that comes with being around the people of God. Yeah. You going to church is healing you little by little, whether it's your body or your mind or your traumatic experiences or the way you were raised and how it's effectually making you think of people in a pessimistic way. You going to church is healing you. Look at all the benefits of going to church. That's a good one. Look at all the benefits of going to church. I mean, you could look at everything in the book of Acts when Peter was locked up in jail. What happened? The church got together and started praying. All of a sudden, Peter is released. The gates open up. Look at what happens when the church gets together and prays. Gates start opening. I just can't believe it. I could talk about it for a long time.

Making God The Center

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Well, something I wanna something I want to mention too is that I I believe what I was telling you was that one thing that really blew me away was that I felt like these people had built their lives truly on God. Right. And then everything else was built around it. And you know, my upbringing, I I met Jesus when I was 18. And so I've been growing and and on this discipleship, right, with Jesus and learning through the word um what it is that my life should look like as a believer, right? Yeah, and um, and and one thing I'm learning is that it's a life of a pilgrim. Like we're not we're not staying, no, nowhere's our home. You know, we're constantly moving. The psalms talk about this how when they're going um to seek after the Lord and He's He's leading them, it's like they're a pilgrim. They know that they're they're living in tents because the moment the Lord asks them to move, they move, you know? And then and just everything that comes from that, like don't attack, don't be attached to things. And what I felt there was that people had built their life around God, and that everything else found its place after that. So He was He was on the top, he was ahead, and everything else this world has to offer, and everything that we're supposed to even do as believers. I mean, we're supposed to have God as number one in our lives, but we are we're still we need to work, we still need to raise a family, we still need to be a husband, we still need to be a father, you know. But what I've noticed is that, you know, where I live and the people I know, and you know, my brothers and sisters in Christ, it's not always like that. I think we build our lives around the way we picture it and the way we want it to be, and then we add in our faith, and we add in our devotion to Jesus where it fits in, and that's that's not the way it's supposed to be, right? Like I was getting into pro I was getting into Proverbs, someone had given me just uh a new Bible recently, a different version. So I started in Proverbs because we're in the beginning of the month, and man, just reading Proverbs 1, it was like Proverbs 1, I think it was 19 or 33, one of those, but it was talking about how people who live with greed, and this was like the greed of just wanting, attaining things, specifically money. And it was saying how when you live like that, you miss out so much on what this world has to offer because you're slaving for something that is just so temporary and it doesn't satisfy. That's good, but then when we put our trust in God, we're able to enjoy the fullness of life. We don't chase after things, and when we do, Proverbs is really clear that you miss out on so much, but when you focus and put him in the right place, you experience the fullness of life, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:50

I completely agree, and I mean, so what is that? I mean, let's let's talk about for maybe a minute or two what that even looks like. Like, what is a person who adds God to their life has different than someone who makes God the center of their life, like their whole life is built around God. Yeah, one example for me personally is before I used to read the Bible to learn. That's great. But now that's when I first got saved. That's what I learned in my salvation period. Now that I'm in my maintaining period, I'm not reading the Bible to learn as much. I'm reading the Bible to spend time with God. Yeah, it's I don't see it as a learning experience anymore. Like every time I get around you, I'm not around you to learn more about friends. Like, but me just spending time with you, the learning comes.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Yeah, it can be.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

But but the priority is the time. Yeah. The priority is not the learning, the priority is the time.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Because your focus is not on what can I gain from this.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Yeah, I'm not focusing. Exactly. I'm not focused on what I can gain. Just like being. Right. And that's what he called us to do. That's the strict priority that I have. When you're around people, I'm not. You know what? And we were talking about this, we might as well just say it. Yeah. I hate when people call me once a year. It's the same people. Uh-huh. Because they need something. And I already know they're gonna call me because they need something. Yeah. You know, because they never call me. Can you imagine if God was looking at his, this is just a metaphor, his spiritual phone, and he sees people calling him, he already knows. Oh, I know I know Crystal. She she wants she wants a husband again. She's lonely, people getting married, she asked for a husband. Yeah, okay. Yeah, you know. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah. That's JJ. Yeah, he he needs some money. I can tell. Yeah, it's that time of year. He spent his tax return and he wants some money now. Okay. He's praying. Yeah. Like, can you imagine? Can you imagine we get to heaven and Jesus tells you what's where you're gonna go and and you're you're not that happy about it.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

And all of a sudden he responds, Well, this is the first time we've talked in years.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

You had a whole 30-minute conversation with him. He's like, this is this is the first time we've had a conversation since let's see, all the conversations we've had have been less than five minutes since about 2015. Have you noticed that?

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Can you imagine that? You know, so I that's what my life looks like. Now when I read the Bible, it's like, man, it's not only an antidepressant for me, it's joy for me. It helps me delight, it helps me get to know God, it helps me, you know, realize that this life is not as important as I thought it was five minutes ago because I get so caught up in it sometimes. It helps me learn so that when I'm speaking to people about God, I'm like, no, no, no. I had this experience with God. I could tell you about it. It helps me learn how to treat people better, kindness, patience, it gives me the fruit of the spirit. There's so many things that I used to read the Bible for just because it was interesting, but that's no longer the case. That's good. Now my life is built around it. Wow. That's just one example.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah.

What Is Your Good Thing

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Yeah. I think for me, one of the biggest things I said when you asked that question was I think the person who doesn't build their life on this rock, who is Jesus, the way he's called us to, I think they end up frustrated. Like their whole life, just frustrated. Um because things aren't going the way they had planned. And and that's because things are out of order. But I think like when you put Jesus number one in your life, it's really um it's it's faith. You know, it's you putting your trust in him. I mean, because that it's just so crazy. The world we live in, that makes no sense. Like if someone said, Oh, you're so successful, man. I see you're doing all these things great. I see you got you know money in your bank account, you have a house, you have a beautiful family. What what's the what what's the number one thing? And if someone were to say, put God number one, they they don't they would lose. They wouldn't want they would say, Yeah, yeah. But that's like, but that's that's what it is, you know, and I think that we gotta understand that it's it's a journey, it's a journey, it's a journey. Like we're not we're on this earth for a season because it's so short, but it's it's just like we continue, it's it's about being, like you said, you know, it's not so much about doing things, but being and being who he's called us to be and being close to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. So I think it's just we need to put our trust, and and once he's at the center, I believe God speaks to you on what the the things you need to get rid of, the things that are are taking the number one seat, right? Right in your home or in your heart, and how you gotta get rid of those things. You know, to me, it I I that's the best way I could explain it is like, man, bring your heart to God in such an honest and genuine posture, and say, Things are not going right. What is it? What is it that I've gotten wrong? What where are you not first? Because if my life is looking like this, you're not at the center. And what is taking your taking your seat? Right. And I believe that the Lord speaks to us and he starts to tell you things that you need to rid, that you need to get rid of in your life, and and just I know that blessing follows. I know that there's all I don't want to lie to you and say that life is gonna look perfect, like there is suffering, and suffering looks like like it can look so different for anyone and everyone, but the reality is is that suffering is going to help us endure. Suffering is is a door, and it's like, are we gonna walk through the suffering and draw closer to God, or are we gonna allow the suffering to pull us away from God?

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Right. That is so I mean, yeah, we we we gotta hone into this walk. Like it can't be a going through the motions thing, yeah. You know, uh it and and I just want to say this everything me and Frank are talking about, it might feel like you're going through the motions at first. Yeah. I remember when I first started working out, I didn't feel like you know muscular people, they feel the muscle contract. Oh yeah you gotta squeeze the muscle. I never knew what they were talking about. I was like, I ain't got no muscle. What am I squeezing? Like, what am I feeling? It's gonna feel like that at first. Like you're gonna feel like, what is the I don't feel like I know God at all. I'm putting in the time, I'm making sure my prayer life is in the right place, I'm putting an effort towards it. But I I just want you to know that this is the goal. This is the goal. Even if you don't understand the Bible that you're reading sometimes, this is the goal. Even if your prayer feels like you don't hear from God, this is the goal. You ready for the goal? Psalm 16. Preserve me, O God, for in you I take refuge. I say to the Lord, You are my Lord, and apart from you, I have no good thing. We have a lot of good things in this life. Thank you. But I'm here to tell you, if you lose them, that's a test. If I lose Frank as a friend, the test is was Frank the good thing or was God the good thing? No, God's God's a good thing. If if I lose my house, was was my house the good thing, or was God the good thing? No, no, no, God's a good thing. If if I lose my car, my job, was my job the good thing? Or was God the good thing? You can tell what was the good thing by what makes you happy. Yeah, what brings you joy, what you take serious. When a hooper tears his ACL, you can tell, oh, hooping was his good thing. Man, but when you when some of us feel like we're not feeling the presence of God, all of a sudden you can see our faces, dang, where's my good thing? Oh, I gotta get back in here. I'm losing the good thing. I don't feel it like I felt it before. What's the good thing for you right now?

SPEAKER_00 35:55

That's so good.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

If you lose it, what is that good thing? Because that's the fight. That's the point of the work, that's the point of going to church, that's the point of reading this book. It he has to become the good thing. No matter where you move, no matter what family passes, no matter if you had a lot of money, now you got less money, less money, more money, doesn't matter. What's the good thing? Yeah, you know, and we have to fight every day. God, I want you to be the only good thing I have. God, I'm doing this because I want you to be the only good thing I think about. God, I'm doing this because I want every good thing in this world not even to come close to comparing to you. This is the ultimate standard we gotta set for ourselves. That's good, you know. Um, so yeah, that's all I have to say.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

That's good. I think we could wrap it up here. I mean, I think it is uh I think it it it blessed me. Just whenever I get to talk with someone about the church, right, and we can get into this word, it always blesses me because there's there's so many areas of my life that I just know that okay, where I'm at, I'm never I'm never gonna arrive, and I know I'm not there yet. And every time like this it's a sharpened session. Like when we come together, there's this things and words of God that come, and I'm like, man, that that that's something I need to hold on to, and that's something I need to pray about, and that's something I I need to strive for. Like, you know, I loved how you said that, like the good thing. We need to find the good thing in in our situation, everything, yeah. And that's it, that's a daily thing, right? Like the highs and the lows. I think sometimes we we think the lows are the harder things, but I actually think that when we have these highs in life, it's easier to take us away from God because we focus on that, being like, this was it, this is what I needed, and it takes us away from God.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Completely agree.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

And so, man, that that's a good word. That was a word for me, like focusing on the good thing, on the good thing, man.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

I mean, and I and I put a quote out from a book I'm reading, practicing the way, and the author he blew me away with this quote.

Heaven Into You And Farewell

SPEAKER_01 38:06

He said, because most people, I mean, and I see it too after I read this book. Most people trying to get into heaven. Man, I want to get into heaven. I I see all these signs of the end, and I want to make sure I get in. But he's the author wrote in the book, I'm Jesus is not concerned about you getting into heaven. He's concerned about getting heaven into you. He's not concerned about getting the Israelites to the promised land, he's concerned about getting the promised land into them.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

That's why it was a 40-day journey, Frank. Yeah, it was. And it took them 40 years. Why is God taking so long to give me to the promised land? Because it's not about heaven. Yeah, it's not about the promised land. It's about is the good thing in us. Is God in us? I'm not trying to get to heaven to talk to God. God right here. I got the good thing. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's here. I'm not waiting for heaven. Heaven is, yeah. I used to, and I used to think like that. And now I wish somebody told me sooner. Who cares about heaven? Heaven's great. But first of all, just in case you guys didn't know, heaven's temporary. We're not gonna be there forever.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

That's why John 17, 3, this is eternal life.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

This is eternal life. Right now, we are seated in Christ. Right now we got citizenship. You know, people who come to America and they're citizens of wherever they came from, they always say, Oh, I'm ready to go back home. But it's not a big deal. I'll stick around. Like, that's how I feel about heaven. It's not a big deal. When it comes, it comes. Right here, uh right now, I still, yeah, I got my citizenship.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

That's good. That's anyways, man. Well, yeah, like, comment, subscribe. Um, yeah, we I'm excited for what we're doing and where we're going. God's blessing this um this podcast, honestly, man, and just our talks. You have any final words? Fear what you don't know. Peace. Deuces.