Choosing Forgiveness: Jessica's story part 2

What happens when forgiveness isn't just a nice idea but your only path forward? In this raw and deeply moving conclusion to our two-part series on forgiveness, Jess bravely continues sharing her journey after losing her husband TJ in a tragic accident.

The story takes us through the impossible decision Jess faced: whether to press charges against the man responsible—someone whose wife worked alongside her at their small school. For months, she navigated the excruciating reality of daily interactions with this family while processing her own grief and raising two young children alone. "I was hurting, I was mad, it was all the things," she admits, revealing the authentic struggle behind her eventual choice to forgive.

Perhaps most powerful is Jess's vulnerability about the criticism she received for her decision. "Family told me that," she reveals when discussing how some suggested her forgiveness somehow disrespected her late husband's memory. Yet through tears, she shares a breakthrough moment, saying aloud for the first time: "He'll be proud of me. He'll be proud of how I raised Thomas and Aaron by myself. He'll be proud of who I chose to help me with that."

The conversation doesn't shy away from difficult topics—like the "honor walk" for organ donation that Jess describes as "awful" in the moment, or how years later, certain emotions still surface unexpectedly. But through it all emerges a powerful truth: forgiveness doesn't eliminate hurt or erase trauma; it simply prevents that pain from defining you.

"When you choose to forgive, that doesn't mean you turn off the hurt," Jess explains. "You're choosing not to let it weigh you down and hold you down. That is the difference."

Whether you're facing life-altering tragedy or everyday frustrations, this episode offers a transformative perspective on how forgiveness creates freedom—not for others, but for yourself. Join us for this heartfelt conversation that might just change how you view the challenges in your own life.

Transcript

Continuing the Forgiveness Journey

Speaker 1 0:01

Hey guys, what's up? I'm Greg. I hope you guys are ready to unpack and get into some good conversations today.

Speaker 2 0:07

And I'm Jess, and this is our podcast Baggage Claim. Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 1 0:16

What's up guys? Welcome back to Baggage Claim. This is a place where we're creating community and some conversations around marriage, life and everything in between we're. This is episode two, part two. Part two yeah, not episode, but part two, on forgiveness If you haven't listened to the first one hit pause.

Speaker 2 0:37

You probably should.

Speaker 1 0:38

That would be episode 28. Yeah, hit pause, go back, listen to the first one on forgiveness and then come back and join us, because we're going to jump right back into the story.

Speaker 2 0:47

Yeah, I was telling a big part of my story and how I've experienced forgiveness.

Speaker 1 0:55

Yeah, and so we're going to jump back into that and so, and at that point in the story, when we kind of left off the last episode, you're in the judge's chambers you had decided to say I'm I'm not pressing charges, I'm not seeking anything toward the family.

Speaker 2 1:13

So you've had eight months leading up to this yeah, moment, six or eight months now, as I said, some of my memories are fuzzy, but had been some months it was six, six or eight-ish to wait for the state patrol investigation of the accident.

Speaker 1 1:30

And so you had had. You said you knew the family. I did. You knew them.

Speaker 2 1:35

I worked with the wife at our school and it was her husband who was the one who actually accidentally hit TJ.

Speaker 1 1:45

And so had you. What was your interaction with them, or had you had any interaction with them?

Speaker 2 1:50

Yeah, for the last six to eight months.

Speaker 2 1:53

Well, she and I continued to work together, right, it was weird, it was really awkward because we were a small school at that point. All of us knew one another. It was a very much like close-knit community, and so she was the school nurse and I worked in the library. So most of the students frequented you know, both of our areas and the families I mean all it was a close-knit community for a school because we were new and so, yeah, we did the best we could. She took some time off. I only took a couple weeks off from work because I knew that the best thing for my kids was to get back to kind of a routine. But I had the blessing of being in the library, so if one of us or all three of us were having a hard day, we could go home. And so, yeah, we interacted daily and we saw each other's kids daily and that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 3:10

So, yeah, so for them. For eight months they had no idea if charges were being pressed or anything Did they have a lawyer? Were they seeking anything like from that point? Do you know that?

Speaker 2 3:24

I honestly don't know. I'm sure that from like a I guess it was their auto insurance would have been involved. I'm sure that there was probably some legal representation that way for protection for them. But I don't know. I didn't interact with that at all.

Speaker 1 3:48

Okay. So you're in the judge's chambers. You tell them you're not seeking charges. So what happens?

Speaker 2 3:52

What happens then? Yeah, so what's?

Speaker 1 3:54

next you said that you cause. You told us that wasn't the end of the story.

Speaker 2 3:57

No, yeah, um, I honestly I don't. I probably had to sign some sort of affidavit there like a legal situation saying that that's my decision, and maybe the family heard it from some attorney situation. But I remember having a conversation with the wife telling her no, I've decided not to press charges.

Speaker 1 4:32

Okay, so you can't just throw that out and say we had a conversation and I said you got to give us a little bit more detail.

Speaker 2 4:37

Well, I mean, both parties knew myself and the family of the man that hit TJ. We knew that that was the day of the meeting that I was meeting with the DA and the judge and all those folks, so they knew that was kind of like the day.

Speaker 1 5:02

So leading up to that, did they ever like?

Speaker 2 5:11

She did. Yeah, she asked me multiple times and I just kept saying I'm not ready to talk about it because I just knew that that was not. There was no need for her to know my thought process, because my thoughts would go from up until I was ready to make my decision. My thoughts would go from, of course he needs jail time because this is what happened to my family, to no, he does not, because it was an accident. I mean, and according to, you know what minute it was and what emotion I was feeling at that point I had not made the choice yet to forgive to and decide to move forward.

Speaker 2 5:51

So I just kept telling her I'm not ready to talk about it yet. I'm not ready to talk about it yet. And there were a time or two where it just kind of was like you got to stop and I had, you know, friends with the administration and that kind of thing, and they would you know friends with the administration and that kind of thing, and they would you know kind of step in. It was like you need to give Jess a minute, you know, don't.

Speaker 1 6:11

Yeah, Cause you can. I mean looking back on site. Yeah, Like I don't know. I don't want to diminish either side of this, but like, at the same time too, she's working with the lady who's kind of deciding the fate of her family and her husband and what's going to happen from them.

Speaker 1 6:27

So, for six to eight months of anxiety, of knowing is he going to go away to jail for years? Am I going to be a single mom? Am I going to be doing this on my own? There's all that. And then, on your side, there's the hurt, there's the frustration, the pain of saying I am a single mom. I am doing this on my own now and I don't get a choice, so there's got to be that.

Speaker 2 6:54

I mean you're wrestling all these emotions and feelings and I had. You know there was family members and friends and outside folks, you know, trying to give their opinion and what they thought was right and, you know, not everybody agreed with my choice in the end.

Speaker 1 7:12

Why do you think that was? Why do you think?

Speaker 2 7:14

I think human nature is. You hurt me, I want to hurt you.

Speaker 1 7:19

Yeah, that's about right yeah.

Speaker 2 7:23

You know, but I just, and it's not. I know that my choices are not normal, quote, unquote, normal or what most folks would do, because when I looked at my two little kids, I'm going to cry.

Speaker 1 7:45

It's okay.

Speaker 2 7:48

When I looked at my little kids who were suffering and hurting and trying to understand what was happening, I couldn't really stomach the thought of me making the choice to make somebody else's children feel that way Because it was an accident. Once I knew 100% it was an accident. I just I couldn't. I couldn't stomach just being the one to be to make that choice. You know you hurt me, I'm going to hurt you was not even a, it wasn't a consideration. Wow, wow.

Speaker 1 8:41

I know that's not normal, but that's a it's a huge thing, though, I think, if we all kind of had enough time to just stop and take a breath and and have that idea maybe and in the long run I mean 15 years later.

Speaker 2 8:57

In the long run, I'm grateful that I had to wait for that report so have a knee jerk because you feel like if you had to decide immediate.

Speaker 1 9:07

Yeah, it would have been a different response. Literally immediate.

Speaker 2 9:09

It would have been a whole different response because, you know, I was hurting, I was mad, it was all the things.

Speaker 1 9:17

Well, I'm sure you're still even fighting that eight months later. You're fighting that years later probably.

Facing the Family After Tragedy

Speaker 2 9:23

Not now, no, but it took a lot of years to kind of work through that.

Speaker 1 9:28

Because, I mean, some people have the idea too, like if you don't press charges, you're almost disrespecting TJ, or that's not fair to him.

Speaker 2 9:35

Oh, I heard that. People told me that.

Speaker 1 9:37

Oh really.

Speaker 2 9:38

Oh yeah, wow, Family told me that.

Speaker 1 9:42

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 9:43

Yeah, and I'm like well, if that's what you thought, then number one, you didn't know TJ Because he would have never. He would have never wanted me to do that. And also, you don't know me Because that's not the kind of person I am. I've never been that kind of person. I've never been an intentionally ugly person, ever. I mean, even now I had people tell me that.

Speaker 1 10:13

Wow. It's crazy because we I've never walked that journey. I've never walked that. For me to tell you what you should and shouldn't do is ridiculous to me. It seems crazy that people would do that, but I know people. They make decisions that are hurt, that are always good ones and healthy ones.

Speaker 2 10:36

And this part of the story is most of the time this is the hard part for me to share. I mean is most of the time, this is the hard part for me to share? I mean there's a lot of hard parts, but I don't want it to come across as I'm such a good person because this or that, or I'm the nicest person because of this, but that was hard. That was hard to get to that point and it felt like a relatively fast timeline to get to that point.

Speaker 1 11:15

Yeah, yeah, six to eight months to walk through. You walk through and be there in eight months. Yeah, seems extremely fast. Yeah, seems extremely fast.

Speaker 2 11:23

I mean to go from I couldn't. I was not the person, I couldn't verbalize the words to tell my kids that their dad died. I couldn't say it. I had to get somebody else to tell them. Two be the one to say out loud I'm not pressing charges, it was an accident. That is in just a handful of months. That's huge.

Speaker 1 11:48

Yeah, it is yeah.

Speaker 2 11:51

But I mean, that wasn't my strength, that was my faith that I drew on. It's wild bringing up these emotions this many years.

Speaker 1 12:05

It's okay. It's okay though.

Speaker 2 12:07

I know, but it's just wild.

Speaker 1 12:09

Yeah, Because we talked about we have. Several times over the last 13 years we've been married. I'm 13 in the next month.

Speaker 2 12:19

Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, the next month.

Speaker 1 12:23

I've asked you lots of questions about TJ. I've asked you lots of questions Mm-hmm. It's, I think, just empathy for what you went through and who you are now. And to see who you are now and how you see life is beautiful. It shows the power of forgiveness, yeah, in such a beautiful way. It's the. It is that beautiful picture of how God forgives us for things in our life. It's like you forgave him when not to be mean, but he didn't deserve it. Yeah, but you gave it anyway, and how that freed you to. I'm not saying like look where you're at now, but I know it's like look what awaited you on the other side. I remember one night I came this is one that just so you'd went to bed early and I had stayed up late and I was watching TikTok.

Speaker 2 13:20

Surprise, surprise, I know it's a typical night around here.

Speaker 1 13:23

I was probably watching YouTube golf and got distracted by TikTok. And then I go across this honor walk and if you don't know what that is, it's when someone is an organ donor at the hospital and these people line the hallways and they're wheeling this person through the hallway and everybody's clapping and cheering and some people are, and these people had lined the hallways and they're wheeling this person through the hallway and everybody's clapping and cheering and some people are in the families walking with them. Yeah, and man, I am just wrecked, like I'm emotionally wrecked, watching this TikTok.

Speaker 2 13:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1 13:58

And then I remember I think it was I told you, I think it was the next morning, I was just like I saw this video and I told you and think it was the next morning, I was just like I saw this this video and I told you and you go, yeah, I did that and my immediately I felt this just brokenness, for I was like I never, I never even thought of that, I never even thought that you that's something you had walked through something emotionally, because just me watching I didn't even know the guy that they're willing down the hospital and I'm an emotional wreck watching it. It's, it's horrible.

Speaker 2 14:32

And when you did that, I was like well, it's horrible and it's beautiful at the same time okay, do you?

Speaker 1 14:38

yeah, can we? Can we? Can you want to share that? I mean, that's not to ask, but I but I feel like it's almost because there's some things too for me like I love you and I love Thomas and I love Aaron, just like they're my own. I do I treat them the same way I do Callie and Cody. I love them the same way they are. And I also, too, want to honor TJ, and I know TJ would be so proud of who they are.

Speaker 1 15:06

He would, but at the same time it's like I want to know his stories, I want to honor him. I want him to be honored in what his legacy of Thomas and Erin.

Speaker 2 15:17

Gracious. This is emotional conversation and that's one of the things. That's—you and I have talked about it. It's such a delicate balance between like—good, gracious. Let me get control of myself.

Speaker 1 15:37

It's okay.

Speaker 2 15:40

It's such a delicate balance of honoring Him and being proud of what— we had and our babies and also being proud of what you and I have. I don't want either thing to be diminished in any way.

Speaker 1 16:02

And we've worked really hard not to do that.

Speaker 2 16:03

We have worked really hard and you have been very helpful even in the first. You know very helpful even in the first. You know five or six years of our marriage, helping me know that it's okay to talk about TJ, and so we have worked on that really hard because I mean it's important for Thomas and Aaron.

Speaker 1 16:28

Yeah.

The Weight of Others' Opinions

Speaker 2 16:30

Because, good gracious, would he be proud of those kids. So, the honor walk thing Because of the nature of TJ's accident, there was only two organs that were salvageable His liver and, I'm pretty sure, his heart I'm not 100% so when the accident happened, because he was an organ donor on his license, they kept his body on life support until there's a company I don't know for sure, there's still a thing but at that point there was a company called LifeLink. Yes, and they would literally link lives with the organs and the recipients that needed them on the donor transplant list. And so, um, the, the, the folks that were representing their company at that time were absolutely fantastic.

Speaker 2 17:41

It was a young man and a young lady and they were precious and they were so well-trained and, um, it was actually me and TJ's mom. We were in this little room together and we met with them and I don't remember all of the conversation other than whatever was salvageable is what they would use and, like I said, I know it was two organs for sure. And so, when the donation day is what they call, it came around I don't know, I don't remember how many days it was after and so, yeah, that whole walk of honor, or I mean you know they roll the bed or whatever. It's a real thing, it's a real emotional thing.

Speaker 2 18:38

It was awful, just to be honest, with you as the widow. It was awful. I did not find joy in that. I didn't find joy that there was somebody that was going to be able to. Their lives would improve for that moment just because of how I got to where that was.

Speaker 1 19:01

Well, that's an honest.

Speaker 2 19:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1 19:03

I mean, that's an honest, real feeling for where you were at. Yeah, but has that changed by now, though no, no, you're still not happy that his organs helped somebody.

Speaker 2 19:15

Okay. So my initial response of no was I got a letter like a year after from a recipient's daughter Vivian's daughter, grown up of how her father could be a part of a grandchild's life and this, and that it's such a strange feeling I mean I guess it was probably the definition of the word bittersweet. Yeah, I'm happy for them, but I'm bitter for myself. I was still bitter then. Yeah, that was hard. Yeah, that was real hard.

Speaker 1 20:06

Oh well, yeah, what's crazy? How someone's? It's this crazy thing in life that someone's death actually gives life to someone else. And then us as humans when we're on the receiving end of that, it's hard for us to see the person, the sacrifice that it took for us to get that life, I mean I still have the letter somewhere in the keepsake box of TJ's stuff that we have.

Speaker 2 20:34

Yeah, um, that was, that was hard and there's been a lot of hard parts of that whole journey.

Speaker 1 20:41

A lot of hard parts, um, and that was a biggie, that was a big one well, yeah, so there's so much here that and I again, this is a lot for you to share and I appreciate you because I know it is very emotional and we're pretty laid back.

Speaker 2 21:02

Happy-go-lucky people we are so, believe it or not, if you're listening to this.

Speaker 1 21:09

So, but also too.

Speaker 2 21:11

And this is hard for me to share. Not, I mean it's hard to rehash some things, yes, but it's hard for me to share in a way that feels, I mean, I think transparent is pretty much how I describe it, but I don't ever want it to come across of I'm better than you because this is how I dealt with it. That's very important to me. I don't. I would never wish my journey on anybody. I never would. I mean this. Many years later, there's still things that come up. I mean when I mean as much as we love Lucy Grace, our grandbaby, she's a year old, a whole year old now. That's our grandbaby.

Speaker 1 22:07

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:08

And then there's still folks that are like we'll bring up. Well, bring up. Oh, tj would be so happy to know he has a grandchild, or you know, are there any Petillo features that you see? Or well, I shouldn't, maybe shouldn't have said their last name, but are there any?

Speaker 1 22:24

I think people can figure this out, are there?

Speaker 2 22:28

any family traits that you see in her and things like that. It still comes up.

Speaker 1 22:37

Yeah, and that's not a bad thing, but it's also too. I think. Here's the part where and you and I have talked about this, so I'm going to say it because you don't have to say it, and you can disagree with me on the microphones, because I know how you really feel. But, like when you're at this crossroads, you're at this place and you get to choose to forgive or you choose not to forgive. Yes, it's almost like as crazy as it is. You pick a side. You either become a victim or you become a victor.

Speaker 1 23:11

Yes is you pick a side, you either become a victim or you become a victor, yes, and then if you're not careful and you don't deal with that, that becomes your identity of who you are and you're toting around this forgiveness weight and that becomes like who you are. That's your identity, like you could have been just the widower, who is a horrible situation what you did, and it doesn't the I know, because some people would say the fact you moved on was almost like, well, you disgraced TJ oh, people did say that to me because I I met TJ a couple of times, which is crazy.

Speaker 2 23:46

It is crazy uh, because he was a youth pastor while I was a youth pastor.

Speaker 1 23:49

Yeah, really cool dude.

Speaker 2 23:56

And I would know, probably at the same sense he'd be like that's not what he would say at all. I know that's what he would say because or not say, or whichever yes, because he lost his father at a very young age. He was 15 when his father died died. So we literally had this conversation multiple times of what he wanted for me. If that happened to him, and so I know without a doubt that he will be proud of me, and that's hard to say why, I don't know.

Speaker 1 24:31

He'll be very proud of you, he'll be proud of me, the way you processed and moved through, because I mean, this was a high school sweetheart you were married to for—.

Organ Donation: A Bittersweet Honor

Speaker 2 24:40

I'll say it's hard to say because I've never said it out loud before. He'll be proud of me. Yeah. He'll be proud of how I've done everything. He'll be proud of how I raised Thomas and Aaron by myself. He'll be proud of who I chose to help me with that. That's probably the first time I've said that out loud and he'll be proud of me.

Speaker 1 25:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2 25:07

And I know that.

Speaker 1 25:08

Yeah, and I know that. Yeah, I think people who know you, jess, who have met you, would just say you have this energy about you that is so attractive, in the sense of everybody likes you, like everybody just wants to be around. They enjoy being around you. They enjoy and I 100% believe Maybe not everybody, 99% of the people, 99.8% of the people, because there's always someone but I think it all goes back to this because it shows your heart. This is who Jess really is. This is Jess's heart, and the heart of it is forgiveness and love and forgiveness and all of that. That's what I was about to say. This is Jess's heart and the heart of it is forgiveness and love and forgiveness.

Speaker 2 25:53

That's what I was about to say. This is not a woo. Jess is the greatest person ever. No, I made a really hard choice a long time ago to forgive, and that's, just from that point on, is how I've lived my life, and it makes little things seem so insignificant, I mean.

Speaker 1 26:19

Well you talked about. We're talking about forgiveness in the sense of like this is a Huge, huge, huge thing. Yeah, it's like man, I hope there's a if they're out there and you're listening to this and you've walked through this.

Speaker 2 26:31

I am so sorry and please message me so I can talk to you.

Speaker 1 26:35

Yeah, but in the same sense, it just goes to show you, no matter what you walk through, there's—forgiveness is always a choice, yeah, and it's always something you get to choose to move forward, and if you do, there's a lot of freedom on the other side of that there's a lot of freedom, and I know when I talk about you, I talk about you like you are literally the greatest thing in the whole wide world.

Speaker 2 26:58

You do.

Speaker 1 26:59

You are like the ultimate hype man for me and I appreciate that. Yeah, I do. It really helps me. You hung the moon in my eyes, yeah, which is not really true, but I appreciate you feeling that way.

Speaker 2 27:30

But that I don't want for people to have to walk through something so just such a tragedy to be able to experience the freedom of what forgiveness feels like. It should not take a huge life-altering event for you to realize, if your husband leaves a mess or if your kids don't put their shoes where they go or like little things like that, to not seem like such a big deal because they're not Like. After, after my whole journey and once I decided to forgive and I was just, I had the, the, the opportunity to, to, to go through counseling and time to pass, and I would hear again this is not. I'm so much better than you. I would hear women complain about their husbands. Well, he can't even put his underwear in the hamper, or he leaves dirty socks everywhere, or there's empty water bottles all over the house. I would get so angry and I was ugly to lots of people and I did apologize to lots of people, but I'm like at least he's there to do it.

Speaker 1 28:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2 28:40

Because, in the grand scheme of things, you can put the water bottle in the trash can for him, or you can pick up the dirty clothes and toss them in the hamper for him, and it doesn't have to be a thing. Everything is not a thing Because at least he's there to do it Well that's a different perspective. That's my perspective.

Speaker 1 29:04

I don't like leaving my clothes laying around. I know you don't, I do leave. There are certain things that I know probably would drive normal people crazy, that you don't like Again in the first episode or one or two episodes ago. I still have my stuff from the golf trip sitting on the bathroom counter. I'm just using my bathroom bag I'm just working out of it instead of putting it into the drawer.

Speaker 1 29:27

It's been days, yeah, and so it's like it's okay with me, I'm okay with it and you're kind of like okay with it too.

Speaker 2 29:34

Like you could give me a hard time about it. I could. I'm going to cry, but you came home.

Speaker 1 29:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2 29:40

You're here.

Speaker 1 29:42

Yeah, and that may seem as crazy as it is, that may seem very trivial and silly to people.

Speaker 2 29:49

But it's not to me.

Speaker 1 29:50

Yeah, until you experience the person you love doesn't come home. Yeah, and you get that knock or you get the phone call. Yeah, and that's what we've always said, like that's why in the morning I get up and I make coffee for you in the morning, yeah, and I give you a hug and I kiss you in the morning, because I'm like who knows if that's the last time we ever see each other. Yeah, we might not come home, yeah, if we get a knock or we get a phone call and everything changes. And so it's like sometimes you can look at life that way and it can be daunting. It also can be very refreshing, yeah.

Speaker 3 30:20

All right, so I got a question for you.

Speaker 2 30:23

Is it going to make me cry?

Speaker 3 30:26

I hope not.

Speaker 2 30:27

I'm not like trying to make you cry, I'm trying to get control of myself.

Speaker 3 30:32

In this time frame, however long it was. You know, we're talking about forgiveness. We're talking about the struggles that come along with that, the hurts and the scars and the pain that comes through that. And this might be a multi-tiered question, but we have already covered some of it, such as, you know, forgiving the, the man who ran over TJ, having those, those wrestlings and those struggles was it something that you were able to forgive immediately.

Speaker 2 31:08

No.

Speaker 3 31:10

So it took time, and I say that because I've experienced things, not what you've been through.

Speaker 2 31:14

No, but you've experienced hurt.

Speaker 3 31:16

And it's not easy to forgive right away.

Speaker 2 31:18

No, it's not. No, I became a Christian when I was 12. But I grew up in church and I grew up, I mean, just you know, kind of right. I wasn't necessarily raised in a Christian household, but I was raised in a Christian family, and so that was just kind of a way of life and so it wasn't like this big idea that I had nothing, no knowledge of, and so I knew what forgiveness meant uh, no knowledge of, and so I knew what forgiveness meant, Um, but it's interesting because, although my relationship with, with Jesus is a personal thing, um, it's, it's more abstract, I guess, because it was not, it's not a physical in my face.

Speaker 2 32:07

And so when it became a physical in my face, um, a choice whether or not to forgive and I don't even know well, I do know it was it was God putting those thoughts in me of just to forgive to be able to move forward. But my counselor also, you know, helped me with that too. I just I knew within my myself and my heart that I had to be able to reach that point of forgiveness to be able to keep moving forward.

Speaker 3 32:44

Yeah. So question, and this may be just at least the perspective I'm seeing this story unfold, right, Because even I'm learning things I've never known about you.

Speaker 2 32:55

It's not something we talk about often while we're hanging out.

"He'll Be Proud of Me"

Speaker 3 32:58

No, yeah for sure, in those seasons of life where you couldn't find yourself forgiving, even though you knew God was calling you towards that, how would maybe one? What did you do that helped lead you to forgiveness? Right but secondly, there's a lot of people who do have a hard time forgiving. I've had hard times forgiving even when I know it's what I should do.

Speaker 2 33:24

Right.

Speaker 3 33:26

Whether it be something as traumatic as what you've been through right, or whether it be something where someone's not putting their dirty laundry in a basket or leaving water bottles around. How would you walk someone through helping find forgiveness in their own heart to share?

Speaker 2 33:45

so for me, my grandmother.

Speaker 1 33:49

I'm sorry, it's okay, oh, nanny.

Speaker 2 33:54

Oh, nanny, my grandmother. We lost almost. This has been two and a half years ago, right, yeah. So, nanny, good gracious, I'm getting control of myself.

Speaker 2 34:16

Nanny was the one who daily walked. I say not just Nanny, my parents did too, and TJ's mother, nanny, was retired already at that point. And so Nanny walked with me day by day. She was also a really big influence of my Christian walk and so she was just grit, and so when it was hard, she would help me. Jessie, what are you going to choose? You know, what are we going to choose today? We're going, you know, she would literally make me say out loud what am I choosing today? What are we doing today? What you know, what choices are we going to make today? So she was a really big influence on, she's a huge influence in who I am in general.

Speaker 2 35:18

But then I always went back to my faith of although I became a Christian at such a young age and I didn't experience that whole gutter to glory testimony I was just like, if God can forgive humanity for all of these awful things, including me, why can I not forgive too? Like, why can I not forgive too? And that's not a natural thought process to have, but that's the thought process I had. I had to just keep choosing it over and over and over again, and it was not a natural choice.

Speaker 2 36:08

I was mad and I stayed mad for a long time, several months and I feel like that was rightfully so. I feel like it was righteous anger at that point. But I just had to keep choosing and I had little faces looking at me and watching the choices that I was making. Erin Grace was a little bitty she had just turned six, not too long before that and so. But Thomas was older and I think that mine and your relationship with Thomas reflects a lot of what he saw me go through. And just, I just had to keep choosing this, choosing to forgive, and choosing what I felt like was right, even though it didn't feel good.

Speaker 3 36:53

That's good.

Speaker 2 36:54

And that's a big part of it. You have to choose what's right, even when it hurts, and it was a lot of hurt.

Speaker 1 37:03

And that's okay.

Speaker 2 37:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1 37:05

So I think choosing forgiveness and choosing to move past that hurt is those things that keep you from being the victim and allow you to be.

Speaker 2 37:14

Oh, I refuse to be a victim right away.

Speaker 1 37:16

Yeah, because there's a lot of people who walk through what you walk through and they're stuck there. They are and it's just, it's really, really sad. Yeah, because it's an easy, I mean.

Speaker 2 37:29

That's the easy choice.

Speaker 1 37:32

I'm not saying it's easy. By any means Hear me out.

Speaker 2 37:34

I'm saying when you get stuck there if you stay there long enough, you're going to get stuck, and then in my opinion, on the route I chose, getting stuck and letting yourself be the victim is the easy choice, because you just sit in it.

Speaker 1 37:51

And so that goes with whether it's a big thing or it's a small thing.

Speaker 2 37:55

Yeah.

Speaker 1 37:55

Like you can choose to be the victim and say I should do this or I should get this or I should get that, Because usually when forgiveness comes in, there's I in front of those statements instead of there's a little different. Yeah, it is so it's a little different, yeah it is. So it's I and me. But wow, okay, so man, so unpack, let's talk about it, let's get, let's give some unpack. Oh, my To, I mean, we've been. This is a wrap up, the second episode, yeah.

Speaker 2 38:26

Of two very heavy and emotional episodes.

Speaker 1 38:29

And talk about some things to unpack. The biggest thing for me would be I don't know. The first thing I think of, the first thing comes to mind, is hey, forgiveness is a decision for you.

Speaker 2 38:40

Like you get to make that decision. Yeah, whether it be big or small, forgiveness is a choice.

Speaker 1 38:46

Yeah, and so whoever it is that's hurt you, or whatever it is that they've went through, if it's this man, the process start, the process of healing, and the healing and the forgiveness is for you, not for them, that's true. And so start to lay this down. They did an episode. Good Lord, I see my life in episodes now, since we're doing a podcast. But okay, brian at church did a sermon and we talked about forgiveness. He gave some good points on things. Do you want to read through some of those?

Speaker 2 39:20

I do, just really quick. I do Because you took notes. I did and I'm holding my church notes in my hand. Thank you, brian Hall, holding my church notes in my hand. Thank you, brian Hall. Forgiveness is a choice, and we've talked about that a lot. And it's a hard choice because forgiveness is limitless too. You can't set boundaries on your forgiveness.

Speaker 1 39:41

No, so true.

Speaker 2 39:47

I probably, if I had different thoughts at that point in my life, I would have wanted to set boundaries, and forgiveness also is without attachments. I will forgive you if no. That's not how forgiveness works. When you forgive, you give up the right to get even, and I did that.

Speaker 2 40:07

And again, I am not being boastful, Please hear the humility in this and I told producer Michael and I told Greg I have a hard time sharing parts of this because I don't want it ever to come off with. I'm so much better because this this has been hard, hard, hard.

Speaker 1 40:26

I think that's the thought in your head. It doesn't come off that way, so let's move on. So you, that's the thought in your head. It doesn't come off that way, okay, well, so let's move on.

Speaker 2 40:30

So you give up the right to give, even, and when you choose to forgive, that doesn't mean you turn off the hurt. No, I mean with the emotion that's coming out of me.

Speaker 1 40:41

Fifteen years later.

Choosing Forgiveness Daily

Speaker 2 40:43

Yeah, fifteen years later, and the emotion that's coming from Greg. He didn't witness me walking through that, but we've talked about it enough to where he feels that hurt with me. Just because you choose to forgive does not eliminate the hurt and it does not eliminate the experience that you went through. A lot of people need to hear that too that you went through. A lot of people need to hear that too. When you choose to forgive, that doesn't mean you're choosing to forget. No, or it eliminates that that happened or the event or the trauma wasn't real. That is not the same thing.

Speaker 1 41:24

You're choosing not to let it weigh you down and hold you down.

Speaker 2 41:26

That is the difference. Yeah, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 41:29

Wow, okay, that is the difference. Yeah, yes, yeah, wow, okay, that's some good, some good things from just preach Jess. Come on now. I mean some good things from Jess, my testimony. So let's leave it up to me to just say let's lighten the mood and let's do something fun. Can we do a Silly questions? Random question time.

Speaker 2 41:52

Question time. Question time. I don't have a question right now. I'm still trying to get myself together.

Speaker 3 41:59

I got a question Would you rather have the superpower of flight or the superpower of super strength, one or the? Either You're not Superman. You're either like Mr Incredible or you can fly. I don't know of any superhero that just flies Incredible, mr Incredible. Don't tell me you've never seen Mr Incredible.

Speaker 2 42:22

Yeah, like the Incredibles, he's just strong. That's his only power.

Speaker 1 42:26

Yeah, I've seen it. Come on, man.

Speaker 2 42:29

In first grade we have morning meetings and this is one of the questions that I come up with for morning meetings. I love this. I would choose.

Speaker 1 42:39

You're scared of heights.

Speaker 2 42:41

I would choose to be strong.

Speaker 3 42:42

Yeah, but if you could fly you'd get over that fear of heights quickly. She's not even flying in a plane?

Speaker 2 42:47

No, I would. I would fly because I think it's the coolest thing that would be.

Speaker 1 42:52

So dope, yeah, just to be able to man the wind in your face and like, just that would scare the crap out of me.

Speaker 2 42:58

I would choose to be super strong, because flying is.

Speaker 3 43:01

I would like fly and scare the crap out of people.

Speaker 2 43:03

Flying is scary.

Speaker 1 43:11

Okay, I have a question. Okay, as a couple, do you fart in front of each other? Do you think it's funny?

Speaker 2 43:15

No, we don't.

Speaker 3 43:16

No, not do you think farts are funny?

Speaker 1 43:19

Yes, yes, they're funny. They are funny. You don't think farts are funny.

Speaker 2 43:24

Babe, we don't fart in front of each other.

Speaker 1 43:26

I know, but that doesn't mean you don't think they're funny, like as Babe, we don't fart in front of each other, I know, but that doesn't mean you don't think they're funny, like as you get the other day I was going to get up, or something you did. I was like oh, I snuck out yeah.

Speaker 2 43:38

But every time that happens we don't laugh. You immediately apologize.

Speaker 1 43:41

I'm sorry, I don't know why we don't. We've just never done that.

Speaker 2 43:45

We haven't but my firsties.

Speaker 3 43:46

But if it happened, at a guy's night, we would rate it. Oh yeah, we would.

Speaker 2 43:49

Yeah, but my firsties if they toot on the carpet, like the little area where we meet to learn, and they make a big deal about it and I'm like stop, Everybody farts, I fart, you fart, Everybody farts. And that's like the conversation I have with my six-year-olds, but at home we don't in front of each other I know which is really weird.

Speaker 1 44:12

It is weird, it's really weird.

Speaker 3 44:14

We never have so in 13 years, you have never once passed gas in front of each other.

Speaker 1 44:18

Yeah, I remember that really embarrassing story. I told you where I farted because I was falling and about knocked myself out because I'd hurt my back and my pants were half down the honeymoon fart heard around the world.

Speaker 3 44:28

I don't remember this. Yeah, I farted and fell in the bathroom halfway in the bathroom and out of my pants, I remember that. Yeah, yeah yeah, that was horribly embarrassing. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 44:37

I've only passed guys in front of you a few times in all the years.

Speaker 1 44:42

Yeah, you do it in your sleep, though sometimes it's hilarious.

Speaker 2 44:45

Everybody does, everybody farts back.

Speaker 1 44:49

All right. Well, thank you all for joining us. Baggage Claim. Make sure to laugh at somebody's fart and like, subscribe and share our podcast.

Speaker 2 44:59

And there will be another episode where you get to talk about your experience with forgiveness as well.

Speaker 1 45:04

Yeah, it's not quite as deep as yours.

Speaker 2 45:06

It's not. That's why there's like one episode for that one.

Speaker 1 45:09

Yeah, it'll be like a half episode, like a quarter of an episode, five minutes in.

Speaker 3 45:12

We'll have extra questions for the next one.

Speaker 2 45:15

We'll have extra fart questions for that one.

Speaker 1 45:18

Yeah, so thanks for joining us again. You guys are awesome. Please keep sharing. We'll be back again.

Speaker 2 45:26

Yes, thank you guys.

Speaker 1 45:27

Go Dogs.