Collateral Beauty,Finding Grace That Stays When Grief Won’t Leave Part 2

Loss can level a life, but it can also sharpen what matters. We return to the theme of collateral beauty—those quiet, steady forms of goodness that rise alongside grief—to show how pain and hope can occupy the same room without canceling each other out. Through raw stories of faith, frustration, and surprising peace, we trace the moments of clarity that arrive in ordinary places: a bathroom floor, a broken lawn mower at dusk, a hug that suddenly carries the weight of time.

We unpack what collateral beauty is not: it’s not comparison, a silver lining, or a tidy justification for suffering. Instead, it’s grace that shows up uninvited and stays; it’s the strength to forgive when forgiveness feels impossible; it’s the courage to ask for help and the humility to accept it. Along the way, we talk about urgency, time, and the small choices that build a life—calling now instead of later, thanking someone today, saying yes to community when isolation feels safer. Those choices become seeds planted in broken ground, the kind that can yield tenfold when tended with care.

We also draw a clear line between being alone and being lonely, and we share practical ways to notice progress: track what hurts a little less, celebrate tiny wins, and allow joy without guilt. The desert metaphor runs through our conversation—flowers on a cactus, life after sundown—as a reminder that growth continues even in harsh seasons. Healing isn’t closing a chapter; it’s learning to read the rest of the story with honesty, compassion, and a renewed sense of purpose.

If this resonates, share it with someone who needs a little light in their desert, subscribe so you don’t miss what’s next, and leave a review with your own moment of collateral beauty. What small win are you claiming today?

Transcript

Welcome Back To Part Two

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hey guys, what's up? I'm Greg. I hope you guys are ready to unpack and give him some good conversations today.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

And I'm Jess, and this is our podcast, Baggage Claim. Thank you for joining us.

What Collateral Beauty Really Means

SPEAKER_03 0:16

What's up, Baggage Claim? How's everybody doing out there today? I just want to say thank you so much for joining us, uh, for taking time out of your schedule to listen to us. Baggage Claim uh is a place where we're hoping to create some community and some conversations around marriage, relationships, friendships, splendid families, uh, all those good things uh that are out there. If you're new to us, thank you for joining us. If you've been here before, you know the drill. Thanks for coming back. Yeah, take a deep breath. Thank you for coming back. Yeah. Grab your favorite drink, uh, whatever that may be, and pull up to the table for us because we're jumping into part two of collateral beauty. Um, the first part, uh part one, we talked about the collateral damage. Uh, now we're talking about this after a loss, a loss or grief or something that's happened. Now we're jumping into the beautiful part that comes about as a result sometimes of that loss or that grief or wherever it is that you're walking through.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

So if you haven't heard part one, um You really should before you listen to this.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

Hit pause and go back. Uh listen to that one because it'll this one will make a lot more sense if you have uh listened to that one. So without any further ado, let's just jump right into uh part two.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Well the phrase collateral beauty is not something that we made up.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

No, no, no, it's from a movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Um that's why I'm gonna be good, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yeah, it's literally called collateral beauty, but gosh, if you watch it, you'll get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

It's a Will Smith movie. Go check it out. You can rent it on prom for like$3.99. Uh go che if you listen to these episodes, go watch the movie. It's phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Phenomenal.

Moments Of Clarity In The Dark

SPEAKER_01 1:54

So collateral beauty comes after a loss of some sort. Um, but what collateral beauty is not, it's not a reward for suffering. Um, it's something that grows alongside with your pain.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

There's yeah, there's a there's this uh can I share the part of the movie that kind of sets this up for us? Yes. I'm sort of in part one, but it's like there's a lady, two two ladies sitting in the hospital, and one of the ladies looks over because the lady's crying, and she said, Are you about to lose someone? And she goes, Yes. And the lady uses the phrase, she says, Don't forget to see the collateral beauty. Um and it's such a powerful phrase that as she's walking through this horrible situation, that she's encouraging her to make sure you see the beauty.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

And collateral beauty can show up in unexpected moments, moments of clarity, moments of connection or compassion or or strength. And those moments don't erase your pain, but they help you carry it.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Yeah, and clarity. I mean, that those moments of clarity can look like a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Oh, yeah. And that's the thing. Like, this is not a cookie cutter, one, two, three, do this, do that, don't do this.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

No.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

This is a it's kind of an a very, very rough outline of what it looks like in in walking through that inspiration.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

It's a way of processing, too, I think. Walking through an experience that you didn't ask for.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Like, what would be a moment of clarity for you that you um that you got through that? Do you do you remember a moment of clarity? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Yeah, share yours.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

I was um I I've shared some of this, but I became a Christian when I was 21 years old. My life was a train wreck. Um, my relationship um with God had been had been growing and growing and growing. And I had always I always said these phrases, God will never leave you, he will never forsake you. He's always there, no matter how far. You can't run away from him. Once you're you you know, he's a part of your life, you're part of his, that's that's soul, that's just done. Um walking through all of this, the the the loss, I was I was pissed at God. Like mad. I didn't talk to him. I didn't um I I didn't I didn't I didn't listen to music, I wasn't going to church, I wasn't giving, I wasn't doing any of the things the church tells you to do. I was just mad. But I told God how mad I was every single day at him. Um and then I remember one night, I was I I've shared the story, I was laying on my bathroom floor. Um, and it was just I was just mad. And I was still, I mean, it's weird because I it's the only several times this happened in my life, but I hear this very, very clear voice saying, Are you done? Um and I was just like, Okay, is there somebody in here with me? Because this is weird. And I remember sitting up and he said, Are you are you are you done? And and I and and now it's just set there and it says, get up. And so I got up. And and and I felt this amazing presence of God in my life and in that bathroom that I it's hard for me to put into words that can explain. And he says, I'm I'm still here. Yeah, and it was that moment of clarity for me that changed all of that for me. Yeah. Like it was one of those that it he loves me for who I am, not what I look like, not what I do, not how much money I give, not how much I read, not how much I tell the butt he just loves me for me.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Um, and that was my moment of clarity that changed a lot for me. Um, and I I I was in the bathroom floor bitching, yeah, like mad uh when that happened. Like it wasn't like I did this formula to make these things high. I was just ticked. Um, and that was the rawness of who I was, but that was a moment of clarity that made me just not look at that relationship different, but it made me start to look at other relationships in my life different too.

Comparison Isn’t Collateral Beauty

SPEAKER_01 6:03

So here's some things that collateral beauty is not.

unknown 6:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

It's not saying, well, at least I don't have it as bad as so-and-so. Well, at least I still have this.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

We we always say hey, here baggage claim, and I'll I'll I'll beat this drum till the day we die. Comparison game is always losing. When you compare your marriage, your relationship, your friendship to someone else's marriage relationship, you're gonna lose everything.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

That's not what collateral beauty is. It's also not trying to find the quote unquote silver lining. And it's also not a justification for your loss. That's not what it is. But here's some things that collateral beauty.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

Were you gonna say something?

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Oh no, I was just gonna talk into the comparison thing as well.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

Like how damaging it can be.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

Yeah, it's all producer Michael grab the mic, and I was like, oh, something's going down. I've heard them say.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

But some things that collateral beauty is, is beauty that shows up quietly. It is um meaning that emerges slowly, and it is grace that sticks around even when it wasn't invited. And that was something that we talked a lot about beforehand of that statement.

unknown 7:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, that grace that wasn't invited, but it stays.

Grace That Shows Up Uninvited

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Yeah, we did. We we talked about, we debated that statement. Debated would probably be better. Uh we're like, what does that mean? How do we, how do we well like in that statement, how does that like how does that work out? Because we're always trying to unpack these things too uh in our lives and be like, how does that what does that mean? Yeah. And I think uh for me, in essence, it meant I'm in the middle of something that I didn't ask to be in, but I'm in it. Um and now I'm here. Yeah. And grace has showed up and it's just gonna hang out.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Well, that's not to mean this very heavy statement, but for me, a way that grace showed up that I did not invite was choosing to forgive the person that killed him. That was not grace that I invited upon myself, but it was there and it stuck around, and God allowed me to use that.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

Well, the grace to forgive. We talked about that in your forgiveness story, um, which is powerful. If you guys haven't heard that, go check it out. It's Jessica's story. It's um, but at the same time, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

It could be grace that's given to you, it could be grace that you experience your own self. It can show up in lots of different ways, but typically when you're in a in a loss that feels like a disaster, grace is not something that you're gonna find on your own sometimes. Sometimes it it just it sticks around.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

And shows up.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

And one thing that I find so beautiful about that grace is uh um many times, yes, it sticks around, but it carries you through.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Oh yeah.

Storms, Solidarity, And Being Carried

SPEAKER_02 9:00

But also it's on the forefront of your own perspective and vision that when you see others get through that, that they're walking through that same thing, that you have that torch carrying of grace that carried you through that you get to ignite within someone else that carries them through. Yeah. And I find that that incredibly beautiful. Like one time, um, and I know I I share this with you guys, you guys know, but I was walking through divorce and and I was like, I am in the middle of a storm and I can't see the other side. And to be honest, I have no idea what that looks like. I can't see anything good on the other side. And uh it was months a month or two after my divorce, and here I'm just caught in this storm, and I'm like, I'm trying to push through, I'm trying to see through God. Let me see a light at the end of the tunnel. I can't see life on the other side of this. And I just remember I ran into someone um at work and I kind of shared what I was going through because he didn't know. And he said, That's crazy, Michael. Same thing happened in my first marriage. And like, this is a man I had known for a couple of years and did a lot of ministry together with, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I had no idea. And here he is now, you know, in his 60s, has kids in college, all this. And then the next week a buddy of mine asked me out to lunch. I had known him for five or six years at this point. And he asked me how I was doing, and I just can't hold sometimes. I just can't hold my emotions back. I wear more on my sleeve so often. And I was like, it sucks. And I just boom shared my life story, what I was going through. And he said the same thing. Michael, that's uh that's awful. I'm sorry to hear you going through that, but the same thing happened in my first marriage. Again, older man got kids in high school, graduating high school, family is great. And I'm like, oh my gosh, and that happened multiple times to me. Right. And that was that grace that carried me through. Okay, there is something on the other side of this dorm.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

I can't see it, but I can see that others have lived it. Yeah, and I can see that it's possible. And then the craziest thing, and this is what I think is so important about this grace, because if we take that grace and we just hold on to it, we're not being conduits of that grace. We're just a bucket that holds it, and that's it. But then there's this guy that walked up to me in church after one Sunday, and I don't know if I've ever shared this with you guys. And he said, He didn't know me. And he just noticed that I was a worship pastor on staff, so he came up and talked to me. He said, Man, my wife's leaving me. He said, I got kids, I'm walking through all of this. And it was just, oh my gosh, it just filled me with such joy to see that grace that God had shown me. And I was able to pour that into him as well. Yeah. And it's just, I think that's incredible because we can use that grace, yes, on our own self, but don't forget to extend that grace to others. Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Very much so.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

And that's part of what collateral beauty can teach you. Um, because it the the pain teaches you something without permission. Like the pain, you know, it it just happens to you.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

Like the things you just talked about taught you something through that pain that you are in hand turn around. Some men shared it because they walked through that pain with you, and then you got to turn around and share that with someone who's walking through. So those it's just crazy how that works. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

And it also helps you notice things that you didn't maybe didn't notice before. Like you can have a deeper empathy for other people's pain, like you just said.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

Um I do that, man. Now now I look at I just I look at marriage, I look at families, I look at it just look at it different.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

You can't help but.

Mortality And The Weight Of Small Moments

SPEAKER_01 12:54

No. Um, it also can give you a greater appreciation for small things, small moments that you might have breezed over before. But little things become big things.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

In a good way, not in a bad way.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Yes, not not in not in that like for you, we've always said a phone call changed everything.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Everything.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

You don't know when your last goodbye is your last goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Like me and Miranda, we're talking about that today.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

And so when you say those things or someone leaves, sometimes you you have a better appreciation for like I know this is crazy, but I I grew up across the street from um my Aunt Jerry and Sandy, and I harassed them a large part of my life. Yeah, like harassed with the city.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Uncle Jerry and Aunt Sandy.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

Yeah, love them to death. Um and I mean, she was just diagnosed with cancer just uh a couple weeks ago. But I'll tell you this when when I hugged her this past Sunday when we were getting together for Christmas, it was different.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Yeah, it definitely was.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Like when you hug her, you tell her you love her and you look into her face, it's different.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

And it's just it's just crazy. It makes you appreciate all those little moments.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

It gives you a clear sense of what actually matters.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

Yeah. Yeah, it really does.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

So much.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Yeah. So talking about mortality, basically, how you just brought that up with with your aunt. Um that pain and that collateral beauty, it really does help you kind of reframe what urgency feels like.

unknown 14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

And what you what you decide to be urgent about.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

And I mean, it could be like that urgency. I I I feel an urgency to hug you every time I see you, or just to tell you thank you when you help me with things. Or I it it kind of reframes that.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Yeah, you went on and on and on about how much I helped you take down Christmas decorations.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

I did.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

It was like, well, what was I gonna do? Sit on the couch to write you? Like I was so thankful. There you were.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yeah. Um collateral beauty also helps you to make sure that you don't postpone making connections with people too.

SPEAKER_04 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

And making connections that matter. And really it's just making sure that the people in your life know that they matter to you.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

I think you if you if you allow it, you can see the beauty in each friendship or relationship that you have, whatever that looks like, whatever it is, and you appreciate that in a different level. Because you know, when you lose that, yeah. Like I I was telling a guy, we were having a conversation about business and building business, and he was talking about it. I asked him, I was like, what are you searching for? Like, what are you doing? Like, why are you building this business? What do you want to do? And he was he was telling me these answers and over and over and over. And I was like, I used to chase some of those things. And I was like, but you know what's crazy? Is that one day I was chasing those, and then one month later, yeah, I'm sitting in my house by myself, don't have my kids, don't have my wife, losing my companies and everything. And I was like, What really matters then? So I was like, what are you really chasing? Not to be that morbid guy that's like, what was me?

SPEAKER_04 16:09

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

But at the same time, it says everything can change just like that, really, really quick. So know what you're after.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah. And you develop less of a tolerance for for what drains your life.

SPEAKER_03 16:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

When you're talking about what really matters, you figure out what doesn't matter.

Urgency, Time, And What Matters

SPEAKER_03 16:24

Well, when you have those moments of clarity, like we talk about later, whatever those clarity moments look like, and you get focused. And a lot of other stuff, you're like, yeah, I don't have time for that. I don't want that.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

No. And when you experience grief like this, it teaches you what the the cost of waiting. I mean, waiting around and waiting to make changes or waiting to make connections, it costs you.

SPEAKER_04 16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

And and collateral beauty can show you that and it can help you.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

But always costs you. We talk about maybe we did an episode. I won't I think it was just called time or clock or something. Something. We talked about the value of time. Yeah. And how important it is, but we just throw it away. We just treat it like it's not that important. And this is the most valuable thing that we have.

SPEAKER_04 17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Um, and it's like we even in the relation, not just in life, but just in relationships. You know, it's just that that's a thing you can't reproduce.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

You can't. Um, there's there's beauty in the rebuilding, though, after the loss and the grief. And when you figure out what your collateral damage is for all that, but then you start looking for the beauty. There's beauty in the rebuilding too, though. That's part of this whole idea of collateral beauty. There's beauty in learning to trust again.

unknown 17:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

As hard as that is, there's beauty in that.

unknown 17:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

There's beauty in learning how to ask for help.

Rebuilding Trust And Asking For Help

SPEAKER_02 17:48

1000%. Yeah. Yeah, if I can share, and this is just kind of on that that same concept of the rebuilding. There was a a podcast I was listening to by Kerry Newhoff, and I forget the guest that he had on. But he was talking about how do you know who to pour into when you have so many people around you. And he he compared hearts of or of people, of human hearts, to ground and soil. You know, if you just go out and throw seeds on ground that hasn't been touched, prepped, broken, anything like that, it doesn't yield much fruit. But when you have ground that is broken, soil has been dug up in the same way that our hearts do when we go through grieving, brokenness, hardships, um that ground becomes very fertile. But that ground doesn't grow unless you plant. And so if if you are listening to this podcast and you're going through hardship, then it's not to say to ignore the hardship or to to just gloss over it and just straight to rebuilding, but also at the same time realize that the seeds that you plant in your heart, in your mind, in your life right now, five years can from now could be tenfold, right? Simply because of the condition of your heart. So I say that one to be intentional with the seeds that you plant in your heart, but also to be careful of what type of seeds you plant in your heart in this time too. Yeah, very true.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

It is wow. Yeah, there's also a beauty and you mentioned this too, um, of learning the difference between being alone and being lonely. Yes. Right. You you found a strength in being alone.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

Yeah, it was one of those things. Um growing up I guess in in the home I grew up with, it was kind of crazy. I was always um, I don't know, I don't know. I mean other I I just remember this one time when we were hiding in the woods because my dad was it was just uh I don't want to get into details, but it wasn't great. Um There were lots of times where I was just afraid. I never wanted to be by myself. Like I didn't want to be. And I know I know there was a lot of weight that carried without with other things. And so for me in my life, that was something I was, I didn't want. And I I didn't ask for and I wasn't looking for it. But all of a sudden I found myself in a place where I'm at home by myself.

SPEAKER_04 20:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

Uh alone. And I'm like, okay. But in the silence, it was so freaking loud in my life and the quietness. It and when I say that, people are like, what do you mean? I'm like, get somewhere for a while. Like I didn't have the option of just going into another room and it being quiet. Every room I went in in my house was quiet.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yeah.

Fertile Ground After Brokenness

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Everywhere I went was quiet. And so I was forced to wrestle those thoughts, those ideas, and wrestle them to the ground and deal with those things. And what's crazy is I I became a strength of mine. Like we had this platform on the uh on our zipline canopy tour that set out on the end of the point on this lake. And I used to go out there at the end of the day when everything was and I would listen to this song. And it's an older song because it's been a while. But it was a Montfort and song song, Montford and Sons. It's from um, and he used to talk about it says one day that the you know that ha the the love won't bring tears, it'll bring happiness, the sorrow will end, the battle will be over. And I remember I used to sit on that platform, man, and I would just weep and just sit there. And I man, I was like, I can't, I can't wait for that day to where I see that. And then but the thing is, is it wasn't the next day, it wasn't the next week, it wasn't the next it was the it was months and years down the road that I'm like, yeah, that there's that that pain brought about some joy and it brought about love and it brought about some other things that just had to keep going.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Yeah. So and one thing I learned too that I learned that joy and sadness can coexist at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

Yeah, which is crazy. It's kind of an interesting yeah. You got an example of that?

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Well, just like my kids were so little, and so I would work on creating opportunities for them to feel joyful and make sure that they still have you know happy childhood memories. And I allowed myself to feel that joy too, even though I was incredibly sad. So it's just finding joy in just the little things like painting on the back porch or whatever the case may be. I had to I learned that those two emotions can can be at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Yeah. And sometimes we find ourselves in those situations, and that's what we talk about with this collateral beauty part. Like we find ourselves in these situations sometimes unintentionally. Yeah. Like it just happens. Like you're sharing a story. Do you want to share the story about your lawnmower story?

unknown 23:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

Can you share that? Do you want to share that?

Alone Versus Lonely

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Absolutely. Um, so this is probably maybe six months after uh my divorce, everything was finalized, and just going through it, honestly, finding it hard to do the everyday life things. One of those things was mowing my lawn. Yeah. I've got uh two acres, beautiful out here in Georgia Country, you know, um on the back side of a cow farms. Like it's great. I love it, it's beautiful. Um, but my transmission on my lawnmower went out. Yep. Pissed me off. So here I am. Now I gotta spend extra money to get another lawnmower. So I bought another used one. Um new to me, but used on Facebook. Had a leaky carburetor, so had a gas valve, shut off valve before the gas line, in the gas line to be able to keep gas from leaking and overflowing the um carburetor. So here I am going out. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna grab me a couple drinks, grab a cigar, and I'm gonna make the best of this because I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. And I didn't have the money to hire someone to do it, barely had enough to just get my own lawnmower so that I could do it for the rest of the season. So uh out there mowing the lawn, doing my thing, you know, great cigar, great drink, you know, just chilling. And uh my nephew calls, and uh probably I I remember it was over a fantasy football because I'm pretty sure he was demolishing me and he wanted to rub it in my face. And I was like, in my mind, like this is my mind, I remember being, okay, Michael, I know you're having a heck of a day. Just take it, love him. He's your nephew, he's 10 years old. Yeah, and he's kicking my butt in fantasy football. Right. So I did, and I just sat there and we talked for like maybe 10, 12 minutes on the phone, and you know, good time talked in the conversation. Well, I went to crank back up my lawnmower, and mind you, I bought this the day before. Right, wouldn't crank. Yeah, wouldn't crank. Then I tried and tried, and honestly, I'm just getting pissed that I just spent all this money, like 450 bucks, on a used riding lawnmower, and I'm just like pissed. So I'm literally, I'm like, I'm at the bottom of my hill at the house. I don't want to walk what 200 yards up to push the lawnmower up. And I'm like, I am not dealing with this today. I'm done.

unknown 25:29

Right.

The Lawn Mower Night Of Peace

SPEAKER_02 25:30

So I just sat on my lawnmower, drank the rest of my drink, smoked the rest of the cigar, and was like, I'm gonna get something out of this. Because I'm done. Right. And I did. I just listened to music, um, which I literally I had to force myself to do because this was in that season that I didn't want to do anything with that. So just kind of one of those things where I'm like, no, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it regardless. That's it. So I did, and I sat down and probably for like an hour. Sunset, it's dark, bright moon out. It was actually, I say this, it was beautiful. Like it was dark as can be, but the sky was like a bright blue. You could see the dark shadows of the trees against the skylight. And I just remember sitting back, and this song came on my iPad that was playing my iPhone, and uh, it was Beauty by David Funk. Just talking about, oh, you're beautiful, God, everything you've done, everything you're doing. I just remember getting mad at God while worshiping. And I was like, why? Why have you let this happen? Yeah, you know, I was doing everything that I could think of to do that was right, um, and all of this still came falling apart. My life has completely fallen apart over the past six months to a year. And I was like, why did you allow this to happen? And I remember very still, because not just the weekend before I was going through something, and I remember God spoke to me in that moment and he said, I didn't promise it would be easy. I promised I would be with you. And that just kept coming to my heart. Man, like, dude, I just started crying. Yeah. Sitting on a lawnmower, smoking a cigar. At the bottom, my neighbors were probably like, What is this guy doing a break? Sitting on his lawnmower crying for like an hour. Like that was not a beautiful sight. Right. But I just remember in that moment I was going through such frustration, and God brought such a peace to my heart. Yeah. Absolute peace. And I just remember like I still tears running down my eyes, and I just started chuckling. I was laughing. I was like, thank you, God. Like I've needed that peace in my heart. And I was like, all right, it it's time to go inside. And in my mind, I was like, I am not pushing this lawnmower up. I'm gonna walk up, and if I gotta get my car and tow this thing up there, that's what I'm gonna do. So I was like, all right, I'll give it one more shot. I'll try to crank it again. I try to crank it, it doesn't crank. And I'm like, oh, I opened the hood. When I was on the phone with my nephew, I turned off the gas line. So this whole time it wasn't even an issue with the lawnmower.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

So I turned the gas line back up, cranked it up, drove it up to my house. Wow. So it was just completely unexpected. But you would have missed that moment. Absolutely. And I honestly, that is that and one or two other moments that are very, very similar to the to that exact same circumstance that completely changed. I don't think those are moments I will ever forget in my life. Right. Ever. As old as I may get, they were, they made such a life-changing, heart-changing impact on my life that changed me. And your moments of clarity.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

And something that came to mind when you were talking just then, as I moved through my journey of finding collateral beauty, although I didn't know that's what I was doing at that time. Um, there was there's a verse in the Bible that says he brings beauty from ashes, strength from fear, gladness from mourning, and peace from despair. And that was something I really hung on to and still do. Like it that beauty from ashes is literally tattooed on my arm. Um, but that's part of looking for the collateral beauty. Yeah. It's there.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

You just have to want to see it some of the time.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

You know?

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Yeah, that's the hard part.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

It is. So let's unpack.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Okay. Just jump in.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Just jump right into it. Um, one thing that all of our little stories that we've shared, um, in the moment it's hard to notice. But if you think back through some of these experiences, um, I bet you could probably pinpoint sometimes where you could ask yourself, what didn't hurt as much today as it did yesterday or last week?

unknown 30:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

As you're peeling back layers thinking through our journey each of our journeys.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

I remember. Well, I think it's important like being able to acknowledge the victories that you find because it helps you build that self-confidence. It helps you build the ground you're standing on.

SPEAKER_04 30:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

And that's significant, especially when you feel like the ground you're standing on is weak and shaky. Um and so being able to do that is tremendous.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Seeing I know we've talked about this in in the last episode part one, where we talked about finalizing your thoughts. And that was a big thing for me because every small victory gave me more confidence that next time the mental battle started growing again. And again, that victory led to more confidence in the next one. And then that victory led more confidence. Like talking about trying to fight mental battles, like that was significant for me, being able to acknowledge those. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

It's not a natural thing to ask yourself daily, well, what didn't hurt as much today as it did? But it is a thought to hang on to, or even ask yourself what surprised me in a good way. Like I remember when I noticed that I was making progress. I was like, I have a I didn't cry today.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

It was like, whoa, I did it.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Well, and for me, it wasn't uh ask yourself this daily or ask yourself this every once in a while. But it was uh when that moment comes, and and I it sounds weird to say it like this, when that moment of enlightenment comes, right? When you see that, acknowledge that and hold on to it.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Yeah. Yeah. That's huge.

Beauty From Ashes And Permission For Joy

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Yeah, I was just thinking through one, I do remember feeling proud of myself more than once, but this one specific time because um every night for months, either my grandmother spent the night with me or my dad, because I was afraid to be alone. Um, and I remember the first time when my dad was getting off work and he was like, you know, Jesse, what time do you need me to be at the house? I was like, you know what, daddy, you don't have to come tonight. And he burst into tears on the phone too, of just pride. I was like, I think I can do it. I think I can do it. And I remember he said, I'll have my cell phone right by the bed, just call me. But I and I did it.

SPEAKER_04 32:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

But I didn't notice, like I said, didn't notice those things while I was walking through it. But if you do, if you're walking through this and you just take time to to notice things, yeah, ask yourself, okay, am I what what did I do today that I can feel proud of?

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Because that's not always something that you can find in the moment.

SPEAKER_04 32:44

It's true.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Um I think it's also important that you give yourself permission to feel joy and to feel proud of yourself. Because whether you ask for it or not, like if it's divorce or death or whatever, it's a loss. And it's okay to move forward. It's okay to to process those feelings. Yeah. Just because you feel joy in a moment doesn't mean you you're betraying the loss or you're, you know, discounting the loss that that you've that you've experienced. Like it's okay. Give yourself permission to feel that.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

Yeah, that's hard for that. It was hard for me. Like, well, I think there was just a lot of guilt, shame, all those other things that come with that. And I had plenty of people to help keep that on top of my head.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

Continually.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

And so it's just hard. It was hard to let go of that and actually feel that joy.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

So it was just, it's funny though. Like, but then I remember back some dear, dear friends of ours, Scott and Jen Cagle, love them to death. Um, she texted us, this is weird text. This is our group text and couples. She goes, Where are we at? Or where are we at, or something? And I was like, Where are we?

SPEAKER_01 33:58

With like three questions.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

And I was like, the first thing I thought of was like, crap, did we forget? Are we supposed to be somewhere?

SPEAKER_01 34:07

I immediately checked my calendar. I was like, Where uh where are we? Where are you? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

And so she said, I don't know. Where are you? And she goes, Where'd Indian pass? And as soon as she said that, I just started smiling. I was like, I remember that's that's the place we still I remember I still remember the weird band because we bought a t-shirt of the band that was playing. We even bought their CD. They had a CD. That tells you how old it was. It's back a while.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

They had merch.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

Yeah, they had merch and we bought it. But it was like this old gas station that had amazing food. Um, but this band was just literally playing in the parking lot. In the parking lot. And we were standing under there, and that was the first time we danced together. It just I look back because you forget those moments. Yeah, you forget all the other things, and then when she just takes it and I brought all that back, I just remembered. I was like, that was a moment of joy.

SPEAKER_04 35:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

Where we just we shared there, and it was just fun. That was fun. So we hit the joy part there.

Spotting Small Wins And Progress

SPEAKER_01 35:12

We did, but anyway, yeah, and sentimental or emotional. Well, even you bringing up that trip, that was a trip that we you went on with your friends, and then I started going with you as well. It was um a week every summer with the whole friend group. So fun. But that having that connection though is a really big deal. And that's part of collateral beauty, also, is making sure that you you still do things, you still find joy in doing things, you still find joy in relationships and making connections with people.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Because they've been on that trip, Damon said a morrow drug me on that trip the first time. And he basically told everybody, hey, give Greg some grace. And and they gave me a lot of grace, and I needed a lot of people. Yeah, they would just out sometimes. I would just sleep on the beach and they would come out and give me just be like, hey, bro, okay. But they loved me. Those those people, no judgment, no, no shame. They just loved me and cared for me.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Um and you said yes to the invitation, that's also very important.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Yeah, I did. I did. And so, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Yeah, and something to remember is that you don't replace damage with beauty. Like the damage is still there. Yeah. But you can carry both of those things with you. They don't cancel each other out. So that's why that that phrase, collateral beauty.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

I think that's the probably the probably the biggest crux or the just hurdle people. They try to cancel one out. Yeah, it's even more all the time. And it's like just stop. You save yourself so much. It's okay. It's okay not to, but we we fight against it because for some reason we think it's bad.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Yeah. Why do why do we feel that though? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 37:07

I I've been that way.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Like, I was certainly made to feel bad once I decided like I'm ready to move along with my life. And uh it it didn't necessarily mean like, ooh, I'm looking for me, a husband. It wasn't that. It was just like, no, I'm ready to move forward. I'm ready. And I was made to feel bad about that.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Well, when I was going through counseling, one thing my counselor told me, and this changed a lot, and I feel like it brings this imagery of of collateral beauty and to perspective and in such a way that I find incredible. I just remember like we're meeting for like an hour and like 50 minutes going through, and I just venting, venting, and venting about all the crap I was going through. And I'm like, my work life sucks, my personal life sucks. Obviously, my relation life is obliterated. She's gone, like there's a cloud over everything, and I'm just living in the shadows. And uh, I remember him saying, It's like you're walking through a desert. And I was like, Yes, yes, and there's no end in sight. And uh he kind of stopped for a minute, and it was like an awkward silence. It felt like an eternity, but it was probably like 30 seconds or anything. I don't know. Um and he said, You know, there's there's cactus in the desert. And if you take a minute to look, you'll you'll find flowers blooming on that cactus. And you may have your face down in the sand, it's hot, you can't breathe, you're sweating. But you can realize there might be a scorpion that walks across too. And then at night you'll see that the mice come out. And he's like, You are in the middle of a desert. But don't forget life still exists in the desert. Yeah. And and on this side of life and things we've talked through, it's like, okay, you're in the desert. You you may have made yourself be in a desert, you may have been dropped in the middle of a desert unaware. You may have chosen, it may have not.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

Yeah.

Community, Invitations, And Saying Yes

SPEAKER_02 39:12

And yes, there's gonna be some days that you're gonna have to march. You're just gonna have to put one foot in front of the other. But don't forget that there's still life to be found in that desert.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

And so to me, it brought this beautiful tie of saying, yes, there's still sadness. Yes, there's still growing pains of I gotta get up and get out of bed, I gotta put one foot in front of the other, I gotta go mow the lawn, I gotta go to work, I've gotta pay the bills, I've still gotta do all these things. But there is still life that can be found in the desert. And when we forget that moment, I feel like we lose so much of this concept of collateral beauty because we're never aware of it. Yeah, we don't even take time to look for it. Yeah. Yeah. We get so overwhelmed with being in the desert that we don't we don't get to appreciate things that we still have. Well powerful.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Yeah. And speaking of powerful, this statement, I wrote it down earlier today. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Because wow. I'm gonna read I'm gonna read it twice. Okay. Um healing isn't about closing the chapter, it's about learning how to read the rest of the story. That just makes me want to cry.

unknown 40:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Healing isn't about closing the chapter, it's about learning how to read the rest of the story. Whoa.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

Well that being said, yeah. Thank you for taking the time to listen to Baggage Claim. Thank you for caring. Thank you for coming back. Thank you for making this. I mean, there's people out there who are listening.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

In 18 different countries.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Thank you for being a part of our community.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Yeah. I hope you invite others to come into our community with us. And uh let's enjoy the journey as we continue to dig in in uh 2026.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Wow, yeah.

unknown 41:14

Gosh.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

That's crazy. That's now holy crap.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

That's now.

SPEAKER_03 41:19

Let's enjoy and uh move forward. Thank you guys so much. And um, as always, I would love to sign off with saying, go dog.