What If Happily Ever After Is Built Not Found

You can love each other and still be running a relationship on autopilot. We get honest about the hidden systems already shaping your marriage: the routines for money, schedules, and kids, plus the unspoken patterns you rely on when conflict shows up. Then we ask the uncomfortable question: if we build systems for everything else, why do we leave emotional connection, hard conversations, and feeling safe with each other up to chance?

We dig into a research point often cited from the Gottman Institute about how long couples can stay in distress before seeking help, and why waiting makes repair harder. From there, we talk about “fake peace” silence, defensiveness, shutdowns, and what it looks like to create a simple communication system so the tough topics do not turn into landmines. We also connect the dots to emotional discipline: when stress is high, you fall back on what you practiced, not what you promised.

You will hear practical ideas you can use right away, like setting phone boundaries during family time and building a weekly Sunday sync that covers both the business of life and the heart of your relationship. If you want a healthier marriage, a stronger blended family, and a repeatable framework that holds up under pressure, this conversation gives you a clear place to start. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a review so more couples can find the tools to build on purpose.

Transcript

Welcome Back And Set The Stage

greg 0:00

Hey guys, what's up? I'm Greg. I hope you guys are ready to unpack and get into some good conversations today.

SPEAKER_04 0:07

And I'm Jess, and this is our podcast, Baggage Claim. Thank you for joining us.

greg 0:17

What's up, Baggage Claim? How's everybody doing out there today? Welcome. If you're new here, Baggage Claim is a place where we want to create some community and conversation around marriage, relationships, blended families, all that fun stuff in between. We are excited tonight to be here. Things are just kind of just chilling, relaxing. I hope you're taking some time off.

jess 0:45

Yeah, Summer Jess has literally no idea what day it is.

greg 0:49

Yeah, Jess Jess has literally no idea what the day is. Like the other day you asked me. It's like, hey, it's Friday. We're going, we're going. Oh, okay.

jess 0:58

I was trying to talk about when Thomas and Miranda are going out of town, and then I was trying to talk about the 4th of July, and it was a whole thing, and you were like, no, today is whatever it was. I don't even know what day it was.

greg 1:09

Can I can I just say, though, my O C D, and I know I have O C D. I may have O C D. I A D H D. You have D H D A K L M M O P. I have a lot of those. Um a lot of them. Not just one. Just yeah, lots of them. We post every Tuesday. We didn't post this past Tuesday.

Michael 1:27

Mm-hmm.

greg 1:28

It felt weird. It just I didn't like it. It was really odd for me. Um, so welcome back. We're posting. Uh we're we're trying to get back on schedule. Michael's on this whirlwind travel of Florida and everywhere in the southern United States. So in Idaho. Yeah.

Michael 1:46

You know what? Idaho.

unknown 1:48

Oh.

greg 1:50

So got him. We're trying to uh we're just trying to figure it out as we go. Thank you for being with us and just bearing with us. We're gonna jump into some fun stuff today.

Why Talk About Systems In Marriage

greg 2:00

Uh today's topic is one of those that you don't hear talked about a whole lot when it comes to marriage.

Michael 2:06

It's can I say I've never heard this talked about marriage before.

greg 2:10

Really?

Michael 2:10

Never.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

Whoa.

greg 2:12

It's it's just really weird because we Jess and I were hanging out today. We got some time just to kind of decompress. Um we're back on this uh we're re-watching Game of Thrones.

jess 2:22

Okay.

greg 2:23

I don't know.

jess 2:23

It's been very stressful. Yeah, it's been very stressful.

Michael 2:27

Squeezing on you're watching it because life has been stressful or watching it has been stressful. Watching it has been stressful.

greg 2:33

And we've already watched it once we know it's gonna happen, but it's still stressful.

jess 2:37

But it's been a couple years since we've watched it, so now we're nearing the very end of it.

greg 2:41

Yeah, we're in season eight. It's very high. You are at the stressful moment.

jess 2:46

Yes. And there's been a lot of things like, wait, what?

greg 2:48

Yeah.

jess 2:49

I don't remember that happening. Wait a minute. What?

greg 2:51

Yeah, I think my mind blocked it out. So but anyway, we were we had gotten a break and we're like, you know, my mom's out of town, so I was feeding her dogs to take care of her pool. So I was like, just go with me and let's hang out in the pool for a little bit. And so we were just talking about marriage because my mind works this way uh sometimes when I spend a lot of time in the corporate world and in church organizations and those things talking about how systems work, how organizations work. Um and so my natural reaction is to take those things and put them into a marriage. Yeah. And then and to how it works. And I asked the question. I was like, what do you what do you think? What if we talk about systems in marriage today? Like, what if we just talk about how systems and what they are and how they work? And she was like, What? People don't have systems. Yeah, she goes, people don't have systems. Oh, they have tons of systems. I'm like, no, we don't. Everybody has systems that they go by. Yeah.

Michael 3:48

Um in everyday life and everything. Yeah.

greg 3:50

So we start I started, I was like, Do you have a budget? If you have a budget, that's a system you go by that that manages your money. Uh, who's feeding the kids in the morning? Who makes coffee? Who drops the kids off, who picks the kids up, who does this, who like you create these systems within uh your marriage.

jess 4:06

I said, okay, fine, people have systems. We just don't call it that.

greg 4:10

We don't call it that, you're right. We don't create them. We have all these systems in in our marriages, but why don't we create systems that help us have healthier marriages instead of just maintaining marriages? And so that's kind of what we're gonna jump into uh tonight. We're kind of gonna get into that idea of how do we create the systems to maintain uh really good, healthy marriages. And so, but before we get into that too far, like so bear with us, we're gonna get there. Um, this is always

Grocery Store Aisle Question Time

greg 4:42

a good time. What what time is it? What time is it?

jess 4:46

Question time.

greg 4:49

I know there's people probably around the world going, please God, what are you doing?

jess 4:52

It's so beautiful.

greg 4:53

Yeah, why are you singing that? All right, so Miranda's gonna do our question time. Get it for us, Miranda.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

You ready? Yes. If I got lost in the grocery store, what aisle would I be in? Be on in? In I.

Michael 5:07

Hang on, are we asking this specifically about you or is this each of us individually?

jess 5:12

Other.

greg 5:14

So we would like if I'm answering, I'm answering like, where would I find Michael? Where would I find Miranda?

jess 5:19

I feel like you would be a good you answer for Michael. Yes. And then we will answer for each other, and then either one of us can answer for Miranda.

Michael 5:28

Well, who does Michael answer for?

jess 5:30

Who is Michael answering?

Michael 5:32

That's a great question. Thanks for uh including me on that.

jess 5:34

I did include you! You can weigh in on all of the other ones.

greg 5:40

You can you can pick in on anybody you want. I can.

jess 5:43

Okay. I'll go first. If I was lost in the grocery store, what aisle would you find me on?

greg 5:50

Can I ask a deeper question? Sorry, I'm into questions. What is this a Kroger? Yeah, I was gonna say it's a big difference in a Walmart. Trader Joe's, Walmart, Kroger's Kroger.

jess 6:02

If I was lost in Kroger, if we lost each other, where would you lose?

Michael 6:07

Especially if it's a super Kroger or whatever they call it right here. Yes, yep, you would probably be in the clothing section.

jess 6:13

I actually know. I've never shopped in the Kroger Marketplace clothing area.

greg 6:19

Interesting.

Michael 6:20

I was way off then.

greg 6:21

I would say Jess, she gets hung up here a lot. Um I don't know that I would go to this. I would because in this Kroger, there's the the produce and the deli are all kind of wrapped into one. That's where I would find Jess because she gets hung up there and spends way too much time looking at produce.

jess 6:44

I want to make sure it's perfect. Literally the other day I did a pickup because we didn't want to go to the grocery store, so we just sort of watching Game of Thrones and we paused it and we made our Kroger pickup list. And I was like, I'm just gonna put bananas on there because it's hard to mess up bananas, but then they did because they were not ripe enough. I was like, all the other produce bad. I said, All the other produce, I'll just go in and get it because Lucy and I are into nectarines right now and I needed to make sure they were perfect.

greg 7:15

Yes.

jess 7:16

They're not gonna Yeah, okay, that's where I would be, yes.

greg 7:19

Gotcha. All right, who's next?

jess 7:21

Who's next? Okay, Miranda. Where would Miranda be? Where would I be? Uh if I'm if I lose you in a grocery store, I'm gonna go to the baking aisle.

Michael 7:35

That's true.

jess 7:36

Yes, ingredients baking area.

greg 7:38

Yeah, like I feel like that's where we can pretty much find you.

Michael 7:44

Scratch from scratch, yeah. Speaking of I think I know I would look at the meat section for Greg. Yeah, I like the meat section.

jess 7:51

That's where I would go look for you, Michael.

Michael 7:53

That's exactly what I mean. In the meat section.

jess 7:54

Greg would be in the meat or alcohol.

Michael 7:56

Well, the alcohol is really like almost so you can see the meat from the alcohol. Well, the problem is, see, I'm not a beer drinker. I just I've never found a beer. I don't hardly ever buy alcohol from Kroger or any grocery store for that matter. I have to go to a liquor store because I'm like, okay, let me make an old-fashioned very specific.

jess 8:14

You would 100% be in the meat section of Kroger.

Michael 8:18

Because if I'm going and I'm shopping, like it'll take me two seconds to pick out produce. But when I'm shopping for a steak, you better believe I'm getting the right one.

jess 8:26

But that's and that's the opposite for me. It's like if we're gonna go get chicken, I'm gonna go pick up the cheapest pack of chicken I can find. But if you tell me we need bell peppers, onions, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I'm gonna be there for 25 minutes.

greg 8:38

I mean you stay there, the chicken and go through all of them and I pick them up. Yes, it's like, oh, what's the size of anything? I don't know. I don't want to spend 13 bucks. That's too much. Yeah.

jess 8:45

But even for me, I'm like, okay, well, for me, I'm like, if it's $12.13 versus $12.98, I don't care what the chicken looks like, I'm gonna go for the cheaper one, but y'all care what the chicken actually looks like.

Michael 9:00

Yes.

jess 9:00

Yeah, chicken, I don't care.

Michael 9:02

Steak, pork, I care what it looks like. I love it. It is.

SPEAKER_05 9:09

I love it. All right.

Jail Call Question And Real Triggers

SPEAKER_05 9:10

We ready for number two? That was a good question.

Michael 9:13

Oh, we're doing another one.

SPEAKER_05 9:15

Yeah, we have two today.

SPEAKER_03 9:20

It's another I, but yeah, it goes for the group. If I called you from jail, what would my crime be?

greg 9:30

Oh Lord, mine could be a plethora.

jess 9:34

If you called me a word from jail, you know, it makes me think of the movie three of me and goes, do you even know what a plethora is?

Michael 9:42

Once again. Do you even know?

jess 9:50

If you call me from jail in your current era.

Michael 9:55

Careful.

greg 9:56

Okay, this is out there for the weekend.

Michael 9:58

Era, I think you would have gotten to a fight. Rogue rage. Not but like, and I say that not to say you're hot-headed. I'm saying you like you had to step up and deal with something because it was an issue. Yeah, because I don't get I don't get I don't get angry. I don't think I've ever seen you like actually get angry. No. Okay, Miranda, Miranda has?

greg 10:18

Wouldn't you see me get angry?

Michael 10:20

You're also around them more than I am.

greg 10:22

What was that? When was that?

jess 10:24

In a vague situation.

greg 10:27

Oh, that was at the kitchen table.

jess 10:28

Oh yes. Oh, no, it was in the living room.

greg 10:31

No, that one too. I was pounding on the I was pounding on the table using very I was very passionate.

jess 10:40

But I've seen you in the work.

greg 10:41

I do remember Miranda said that after she's like, I've never seen that side of the table.

Michael 10:45

See, I've been with you in like work settings. So like I've never seen it.

jess 10:48

But I've seen him in like the public world. And like the other night with fireworks, there were some folks that were standing up in front of us, and we had our niece and nephew that are four and seven. They couldn't see. And we couldn't see. And we were like, oh my gosh, if that man would just sit down. And but when you were saying, sir, would you mind sitting? It was so quiet. It was like, sir, sir, will you just can you do that one more time? Sir. But I feel like in your head, like when Miranda feels like she's yelling, it is so quiet. But I think in your head that was so loud. Like, I think in the public world, I don't think I I know you would not get into a fist fight, but I think that road rage.

greg 11:30

I will the thing that enrages me, like I kind of lose, and it goes back to my past is like if I see a dude lay hands on a woman, yeah, like I kind of lose. Like I grew up in the city.

Michael 11:41

See, that's what I'm saying. Like you feel like you had to step in on something.

greg 11:44

I just I I this is not a good spot for me. Like I know that's my trigger.

Michael 11:47

Yeah.

greg 11:48

Yeah. Like I'm like, okay, this is gonna go southwest.

Michael 11:51

Yeah, in my opinion.

greg 11:52

Yeah, I don't I don't handle that well, even after all of my things I've worked through in my life. So that's uh yeah.

jess 11:59

Okay, what if I called one of y'all from jail? What would I would be there for?

greg 12:02

Shoplifting. Shoplifting? I'm just kidding. I don't believe that. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. You've probably never stolen anything from the jail.

SPEAKER_04 12:12

I literally never. I remember one time.

jess 12:15

You would too sweet to be in jail.

greg 12:18

You would never go to jail.

jess 12:19

Here's full transparency. When I worked at the bank, one time I accidentally put my pen from my desk in my purse to go home when I was just cleaning up for the day. And I felt so guilty until I got back there the next day, and I can take it out of my purse.

Michael 12:32

No, you didn't. And put it back on my desk. No, I'm not kidding you. Was it like a fountain pen? Like a pen.

jess 12:38

No, it was not a fancy pen.

Michael 12:40

It was just like a 30 cent pen.

jess 12:43

Probably.

greg 12:44

You were such a better person than me. Wow.

jess 12:46

I just felt so bad.

greg 12:47

We used to say Yahoo beer with Eddie Taylor, and we used to think it was the funniest thing.

jess 12:51

But now you gotta say what Yahoo beer means.

greg 12:54

Okay, you gotta understand it's a long, long time ago.

jess 12:56

It was in the 80s. Late 80s.

greg 12:58

And so we had this thing, Eddie and I would go, it's like, hey, if you grab beer, it was basically stealing.

jess 13:04

You No, it's not basically it was.

greg 13:06

And so if you grab beer, you would grab beer out of the thing. You would grab beer out of the convenience store and you had to yell Yahoo as you ran past the cashier.

Michael 13:16

You were like, Yahoo!

greg 13:18

So we called it Yahoo and Beer. Greg. We got in trouble a couple times.

SPEAKER_05 13:23

Yeah.

greg 13:24

I mean, I was not a great person back then. I was I had some issues. So I was.

Michael 13:29

If I you called me from jail, I would be wondering what the cop got wrong.

greg 13:33

Yeah, there's no way.

Michael 13:34

I would be like this is a mistake.

jess 13:36

Let me adjust my halo.

greg 13:37

Yeah, there's no way. You I mean, yeah, I don't know.

jess 13:43

I don't have a mean moan in my body.

greg 13:45

You don't. You would feel horrible if you did something to someone.

Michael 13:48

If I'm to answer this from Miranda, and I'm not gonna lie, I'm low-key a little scared of what your bad side would be. It's very rednecked. Because I've never seen you get flustered or angry or even like high-tempered at anything.

jess 14:07

I've seen it a time or time.

Michael 14:08

But I feel the sass is there somewhere. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 14:13

Somewhere.

Michael 14:14

Oh yeah.

greg 14:14

She's from Fingerville, South Carolina. So there's a lot of uh.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Oh, I'll incriminate myself real quick. You want to incriminate your own self?

greg 14:25

Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

2019 I stole beer in Myrtle Beach from people's front porches.

SPEAKER_05 14:32

Off our front porch? You were looking for coolers? Did you open people's coolers? Oh my gosh. Y'all were there while I was at the beach too.

unknown 14:42

Oh my god.

jess 14:45

Oh my gosh. Well, I will just be really honest.

greg 14:48

I would never I would never pick you stealing. I would never me either.

jess 14:51

I'm afraid. But my honest answer was gonna be for you, Miranda Lee, um, from your past, just from stories I knew, it was gonna be stealing alcohol. That's why you would call me.

SPEAKER_05 15:05

Yes.

greg 15:06

Well, I didn't have that from Ren at all.

jess 15:08

No, I feel like maybe you haven't heard all the stories I've heard.

Michael 15:11

Someone apparently I'm not. Someone in the Walmart parking lot started trash talking you and it just hit a trigger, and like you got in a fight.

jess 15:22

So that's why she got arrested in your imaginary mind?

Michael 15:24

Yeah, in my imagination, that's why you got arrested.

greg 15:26

So my imaginary mind, Michael got arrested over a Facebook marketplace scale.

Michael 15:35

Is that marketplace still gone south?

greg 15:39

Michael is always on Facebook Marketplace.

jess 15:50

He lost his temper.

Michael 15:51

Yeah, some deal with someone tried to scam me, and I just got pissed off. Yeah. That's exactly right.

jess 15:56

And went to fisticuffs.

Michael 15:58

In the Walmart parking lot. I pulled an illegal uh citizen's arrest, is what I did. Well, I'm gonna do it.

jess 16:07

Let me toss hair tossed, toss, toss. I didn't get arrested for anything in this imaginary world.

greg 16:13

When we when we when we say this, it's just I wonder about people with like we have people in Vietnam, yeah, Singapore, all around the world listening to us going, what in the What are these people talking about? These people are nuts. Yeah. And we're talking about marriage. So let's get back to marriage.

Why Couples Wait Too Long For Help

greg 16:32

Let's do that. Um if we're if we're talking about marriage, can we do that?

jess 16:34

Marriage is what brings us here today. Together today.

greg 16:39

You want to lead us off into the uh I jumped us into the systems thing.

jess 16:43

You did.

Michael 16:44

So um Well, we should start with this. Okay. Go ahead. So this is something that we looked into just as far as talking about systems, talking about when people work on their marriages. And we've talked about this before, even in the past, as far as you know, so many people uh treat their marriage like they do their car. You know, the engine light can come on and you just keep chugging.

jess 17:07

Or the tire light like on my car.

Michael 17:09

The tire light comes on and you just keep going, but it's not until you're broke down on the side of the road that you actually try to do something to fix it. Right. You're right. So there is research um from the Gottman Institute that says that the average marriage continues through six years of distress before they try to seek any kind of help.

greg 17:30

Okay. Six years? That's insane. Because the average, like they call it the seven-year itch. Yeah. So at seven years, that's when a lot of divorces happen.

Michael 17:39

Well, and also they also say the honeymoon phase lasts about a year.

greg 17:43

Yeah, so it's it's interesting that that actually lines up. You you you yeah, for a year. You do that, and then six years, and then seven year it's the okay, we're done. It's moving. It's just it's sad to me. I told Jess. I'm like, because we we've been talking about in baggage claim, like we worked out our whole kind of nine-step process of like a framework for for couples to for blended families to help build great marriages. We're like, why why do couples wait till the wheels fall off before they actually try to to make their marriage better? Like they just want to fix it. Like you you rarely run into a couple who says, Hey, I just I want the most out of my marriage that I can get. Like I wanna I wanna I always used to have this dude, I loved him. It was so much fun, Tim Akins. And um I was like, What are we doing today, bro? And he goes, We're gonna peg out the fun meter. That's what we're gonna do today. And I was like, What if we looked at marriage that way? We're gonna peg out the fun meter. Like, we're gonna do the best we can. We wanna have the best marriage we can together while we're here. Because we only have a short. I mean, our our time here on earth is pretty short. Yeah. You found someone that you said, I want to spend the rest of my life with you. I love you. You can have, I'm gonna take all my stuff, get like let's take all our stuff, put it in the in the center, and we're in this together. And so we do those things, but then we're like, yeah, I'm not gonna work on my marriage. I'm gonna work on being a better person at my job.

jess 19:14

I'm gonna make myself happy.

greg 19:15

Yeah, so I can I can have a better job, I can make more money, and then I want to make more money so we can buy more stuff, and so we can do all these things, and we keep going on.

jess 19:24

Yeah.

greg 19:25

And it's so sad to me to go, why not try to figure out how to have the best marriage you can have?

jess 19:30

Yeah.

greg 19:31

Yeah. So it's it's it's it's crazy to me, and it's really sad.

Michael 19:35

Well, and I think also another perspective is I think many times in marriage we'd rather sit in silence in a fake piece, quote unquote, than to step on toes. Because the reality is to be able to address any issues, like it's gonna cause some burrs, like it's gonna cause some friction. So many people don't have those conversations because they don't want to bring about the frictions.

A System For Hard Conversations

greg 20:01

What do we have a conversation today?

SPEAKER_05 20:03

Today.

greg 20:04

Literally today. Um I was like, I need to talk to you about something. But I feel as like every time here lately, when I bring this subject up, you get upset. So I don't know how to bring it up. Because when I bring it up, you get mad, you get defensive.

jess 20:18

But then I get quiet.

greg 20:20

And so I'm like, I need help on how do we discuss this, but here's what I need. And so I was trying to be very because for me, I I get when people get quiet, because for me, the internal the internal voice was telling me, don't say anything, just let it go, because whatever you say is just gonna blow up, it's not gonna go well. And so for me, I'm like, if I chase that idea or that thought down the road, that doesn't end well for anybody. Like, because I'm gonna create separation from Jess, I'm gonna be frustrated at her, I'm gonna be mad at her.

jess 20:52

Yeah.

greg 20:53

So I've I've got to figure out a way to address this.

jess 20:56

And then on my end, I have to own the fact that when you do bring up tough subjects, I either shut down or I go into defense mode.

greg 21:05

Yeah. Which is natural.

jess 21:08

But we're both aware of that.

greg 21:10

And so this is that whole system thing we talked about. Like, what's the system of how you talk about hard conversations? What's the system about how you how you how you navigate these situations and knowing those things? Because for us, I wasn't I I mean, honestly, for if I'm 100% honest, I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to I don't want to deal with this. I just want to I want it to be solved, but it wasn't gonna be solved unless I dealt with it.

jess 21:37

Well, even when we were talking about this episode, which connects well to the actual conversation we had today, when we were talking about you said something about well, what systems do people operate under? I said, Well, we don't. And I'm like, systems, that's like a that's a business word. But then when when we started kind of breaking it down, no, we we all have systems. systems, whether it's communication style like what we were just talking about, or other other like very practical things.

greg 22:07

But thing is like what's crazy is like you have a system for your finances called a budget. Like if you want to be out of debt, you want to know where your money's going, you want to be financially sound, then you get a budget. It's simple.

jess 22:18

Miranda is the queen of budgets.

greg 22:20

If you don't want to know where your money goes and you just want to free fall and just constantly be chasing your tail, don't give it a budget. But I tell you this budgets are not sexy. No. They're not fun. They're not, but it's a system to help you know where your money's going, where it's not going, and what you need to do. The same holds true for us in

Practical Routines Versus Emotional Discipline

greg 22:41

our marriage. Like you have systems, but it's like why not put those in place for the emotional things of your marriage.

jess 22:48

The other sides of that like practical everyday systems like who gives the kids ready in the mornings who picks up who's dropping the kids off who's taking what?

greg 22:58

Who's packing lunches? Who's not packing lunches? Who's who's doing this? Who's not doing this? Who's paying bills? Who's not paying bills? Who's like there's there's systems you have laid out for the everyday occurrence of how life maybe you're like me and didn't you didn't know that was an actual system quote unquote.

jess 23:15

Right.

greg 23:15

And so they're there they're in place. The problem is is we miss the emotional side of that system. Like we get the practical side especially dudes like we're practical guys. We're like there's a problem we solve it. But when there's an internal issue of an emotion we don't create systems to deal with those hard situations, deal with those tough times. But even just keeping a check on hey are we good? Are things good between us? Are you okay? Do you feel loved? What can I do better to make you feel more accepted? Like we don't have systems for those things.

Michael 23:52

And honestly whether you want to think of it as the word system or not I think and this just popped in my mind you know as we've talked through this I think a better word for it might just be discipline.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

Yeah.

Michael 24:03

We have discipline for our schedule we have discipline for our finances. We do all these things but how many times in your life if you look back because I'm thinking back now whoever teaches on emotional discipline.

jess 24:14

Nobody and another word too that I thought about like you said when we were just talking about is routine. Like you get into the routine of who do who is doing the morning stuff with the kids or who's doing the laundry yeah who's doing the yard work like the routines that you establish that just become like oh this is what we do. But you do that emotionally too though.

greg 24:36

If you're not careful we don't do that emotionally routine you do as like discipline is most of the time when everything settles down you pull out your phone and you sit on your phone and you just look at stupid crap and you just scroll on your phone. Yep that's your yeah you're right.

jess 24:57

It's like Jess said today she goes let's go to the gym and I'm like oh God okay I don't want to but okay would love to but then we had a great time is that really what you said Greg yeah does it make sense it actually did he was like okay I would love to go to the gym with you.

greg 25:11

And so but then when we left I mean it was a tone whatever but I felt better I was like hey that's a thank you we had a great time I appreciate you like pushing that pushing us to go do that together. Like that was that was that was good. It was a fun thing for us um it's one of those disciplines that in the in the beginning doesn't sound great but when you do it it it it works.

jess 25:33

But I that applies to a lot of stuff like communication and making sure you're on the same page like when you do actually get home in the evening and it's family time like do you want your phone in your hand do you want to all be in the same room do you want to be playing like there's so many moving pieces what if I was coaching you as a like I'm your I'm your marriage coach and I sit down and go okay tell me your system for communicating with each other and with your family.

greg 26:02

Yeah like there's so many people who could be like what I don't even know what you're talking about.

Michael 26:06

Honestly I think your most average response would just be well I just tell them when I tell them Oh we have a calendar that we put all our stuff on.

greg 26:16

So it's like no what does that look like? Yeah like um Thomas suggested we spent the weekend with him for his birthday with some friends up at a my baby boy's 25 at a at a lake nearby and he goes why don't we have a phone box and I was like I'm 100% cool. Throw your phone in there and there were a couple times I'll look over we were all sitting out on the on the all of us were out on the patio and I just happened to look up at every single every single person in the room sitting in room we're on Lake Burton at this really cool cabin we can get everybody's on their phone. Yeah looking at probably stuff that doesn't really matter yeah uh that we don't really care about and we're just like what are we do what are we doing? Like what what what stop like let's just stop let's not do this anymore but we constantly it's just our fallback that that's what we go to and so we just naturally fall into that groove because that's the system that we've created and it's comfortable.

Michael 27:13

It is so easy and that's what we do. Yeah the reality is you have a system whether you created it or not.

greg 27:20

You know what's crazy to me though when you think about it everybody when they walk down the aisle has the same goal. Yeah like everybody when you walk down the aisle and you see the bride for the first time or you see the groom for the first time and there's those magical moments at Thomas and Miranda's it was a freaking monsoon. It was raining so hard it was so magical though it was and you're standing there and you you exchange vows everyone has the same goal but not everyone reaches it my question is is because um what was the the quote from Atomic Habits do you remember what

Goals Fail Without Strong Systems

greg 27:59

it was? Yeah by James Clear. Yes James Clear he wrote Atomic Habits a great book if you haven't read it doesn't have anything to do with marriage but it's a great book.

jess 28:06

You do not rise to the level of your goals you fall to the level of your systems.

greg 28:12

So we all have the same goal when we walk down the aisle the reason some people achieve it and some people don't is because they have a system in place that helps them reach the goals that they're after. Yeah so and I know that's not sexy and I know that's not fun and it's not glamorous and it's not romantic.

jess 28:29

It does not give me butterflies.

greg 28:30

No it doesn't but it works. And the thing is is you can have a system you can still have the butterflies in there every now and then you can still have the romance but if you have a system that works for you and your significant other then you're gonna be successful.

jess 28:46

Yeah. If you don't and you just think you're gonna happen upon it would you say that okay let's pretend like you're lining up for a race half marathon you've ran a handful of those would you say that the winners and the losers both had the same goal in the beginning some somewhat maybe they're different.

Michael 29:07

Okay well I think of it like this and because I see where you're going because it races can be different you have personal goals things like that. But and I do not remember where this comes from so I apologize but the the concept is the same but like you think of boxers fighters whatever it is you know and I also think like as a dude right like every dude like has that internal pride or that dream of being like oh yeah I could take him like no it doesn't matter like yeah I could take him whatever but at the same time we always think we're gonna rise to the occasion but the reality is we're going to fall to our training.

greg 29:40

Yes because when and we've talked about this concept before when heart rate is elevated when blood pressure gets higher critical thinking sinks plummets tremendously so we always think oh yeah well when the pressure hits I'm really gonna work great under pressure but the reality is you don't you're gonna fall to what your training is yeah a aka the stuff you grew up in the baggage you brought into the relationship how you dealt with conflict and all the emotional stuff that you did in your past relationship or your past marriage those are the same way you're gonna deal with it now. Like it just it happens all the time and it's a cycle just that cycle. I'll tell you this like when I ran my first half I knew I couldn't win. Like my very first half was half marathon took my very first half marathon was uh in Savannah because I was like it's the flattest place I could think of um the most I'd ever run was a 5K I'd never run anything more than a 5K um I'm like okay I know I'm not gonna win this but I want to finish and I want to finish and I'm not gonna walk I had some goals I'm not gonna walk and I'm not gonna get picked up by the the they called the the lag bus. So if you're lagging and you're too slow the bus picks you up and takes you to the end I was like I'm not walking I'm not getting picked up that bus. And so those are my goals. Now there were guys in the beginning that I mean there were 4000 people in this race. So there were guys in the front that were just like super fast.

jess 31:07

Right.

greg 31:08

My goal was not to win my goal was to finish. So we all had those similar goals.

jess 31:12

That's what I'm saying winners and losers you do have the same goal but how you get there looks different. Yeah like you all hypothetically speaking you all wanted to finish the race but how you got there looks different which is kind of like you know each marriage has different systems to make it successful.

greg 31:33

Well it's crazy though is you ever sit down like I've done some premarital counseling you ever sit down with a married couple and we'd be like what's your goal for getting married like have you ever asked the other person that's you're married to like hey what's your goal in being married just like what are you what are you after yeah what are you chasing uh it's a pretty interesting question just to ask I just love him so much like what okay what's that what does that look like yeah what does that mean like okay I love Fruit Loops like they're awesome when I'm watching cartoons but what does that mean? Like what do you mean you love him so much? Like there's so much more to that and this is one of those simple simple questions but then so many times we just don't so figuring out um when and how do we develop these systems to help us have the relationship that we're after.

jess 32:30

Yeah like that's the that's the key what are you after what does that look like and then when do you engage the system to get you there?

greg 32:39

Yeah because I'll tell you this like if you call me and uh we're starting to we're bridging this into uh we're starting to do some marriage coaching um for baggage claim which is a fun area for us I love it something I've I've done a lot of my life in consulting and those coaching and those things but if I'm sitting down with a couple I can give you goals I can give you those things but for me I'm just like no no no I want to give you the framework yeah that you find your goals and I'm just gonna give you the the the big picture and go these are some the the framework you have to build it like I'm just gonna give you the framework.

Michael 33:18

Well it's gonna be different for everyone yes it is it has to be like a system for one person is not the same. I mean you know when you look into workout regiments when you look into dieting when you look in I mean even in sports like two people of the same sport same position their workout is not going to always be the same.

jess 33:34

No.

Michael 33:35

Because their bodies are different.

greg 33:36

Yeah it's very intentional design what you're after I would and I love Jim Collins and he wrote um built to last good to great great incredible author business guy from way way back when back in the day uh but he used to call them B HAGs like big hot hairy audacious goals. So B HAGs were a big thing back in the day and they talked about them. The problem is is we set those big hairy audacious goals for our marriage and I would say you're you're setting yourself up for failure. Yeah take set a goal but then take a really really small step like have a small step like let's let's just pull this down to make it really really simple don't make it so complex that it just seems overwhelming and you just walk away from it and you say no.

jess 34:26

When it is overwhelming and when you feel like you're not gonna meet that goal you're gonna you're gonna naturally default to what you've witnessed and what was modeled for you when you were growing up. Yeah and you got to change that you got to change the system if you want if you want different goals if you want to if you want to achieve the what you're after you can't rely on those old circumstances if you're trying to set new generational goals like you and I we're very and we still are very intentional about what we've modeled for our four kids if you want to set those new goals you're not gonna get there with using like I'm gonna go to a business term an inherited system like if we if you used what you saw when you were growing up versus what I saw when I was growing up neither one of them were necessarily healthy and if we brought that into our marriage our four kids their marriages their relationships would be failures if they were trying to model that after us my my goal before we get an unpack because I I I just thought of this systems

Toddlers Prove Systems Run Everything

jess 35:34

work.

greg 35:34

Whether you know them you it doesn't matter where you're at it doesn't matter how long you've been married it doesn't matter how old you are Lucy our sweet little two year old knows the system yeah and her system is when I come to G and I grab him by the finger I'm gonna get whatever I want she's gonna get up and he's gonna follow me wherever I want to go. Because she did this the other day she came and grabbed me by the finger we walked out and she wanted to go outside and go play around on the golf balls where the my net is where I hit golf balls she wants to go play.

Michael 36:05

So she grabs me by the finger walks to the door past the door looks at me and I'm like got it like her I mean even as a two year old no she's not even two so she knows there's a system this is how I get what I want systems work in a marriage they work in relationships they don't have to be there to be complex huge yeah well and another one is even this and this is hilarious and I think it I think it's hilarious and absolutely adorable Thomas came in and said hey Lulu it's time for bed what's the first thing she did she went and jumped on the couch.

jess 36:40

Yeah because no one had to work at this house she doesn't do it at their house she knows at this house when it's time to get ready for night night which daddy gave her her passy before we do we didn't give her we don't give her a passy but she knows you get your bath you get your PJs and you get your water and then you sit there and we watch an episode of Bluey sometimes two but she knew and she literally Thomas had the remote in his hand and he went to Disney and then she he was doing whatever and she said I want that one and he was like okay and he looked at me I was like yeah this is what we do like yeah no it's not that at your house of a there's a system here how effective and efficient it is even with a toddler.

Start This Week With A Sunday Sync

greg 37:25

Oh yeah okay so we're 37 minutes in yeah we're talking about marriage let's get to unpack how does this it like how does this work what are some practical things we can do this week to try to even just start thinking about like first off I want to say this is a great conversation starter with your spouse to say if you listen to it let her listen to it let him whoever and then just say let's sit down have a conversation about it.

jess 37:54

Because you have got to build this together.

greg 37:56

Yes it's if it this is not a one-sided thing.

jess 37:58

No you both have to figure out what it is and this is a great conversation starter but what are some things well first I want for you to hear from our heart like we're not here to set goals for you we're I mean we can't do our purpose and not to set goals no it's not but what we like we're not gonna have like inspirational quotes and like posters for you to print out those are so awesome we don't have that but what we're here to do is to give you a framework to work toward together. The the whole idea is together to build this kind of framework together because if you have that as the backbone of your marriage it it truly does it works. And we're not saying that we're perfect Greg and I have never ever ever said that we're like we have the most conversations today today today today weren't fun.

Michael 38:52

No it was not a pleasant well and it's also never going to be a one and done thing anyway like they're gonna constantly be going on for the rest of your life it's not so what are some things that our friends can do I would say two of my thoughts and one of them is an absolute shameless plug it's great to know where you start. Yeah right we have the baggage claim blueprint framework where you can go on the website take the audit it's free it's like what 20 questions something like that 20 questions. It's incredibly accurate in my life it is and when I took it but it helps you understand where your friction points are. Yeah where are your tension points that create frustration for you as an individual whether it may be for your relationship with you and your spouse or your your girlfriend your boyfriend whatever that looks like take that because if you're sitting here and you're like I have no idea what that even means for me I don't know where my tension points are I don't know where my frustration points are okay then go take that learn about yourself find out what they are that way you have a starting point to work with. Right. And then one other thing I saw uh that I thought would be very beneficial for this and you can call it whatever you want but my brother actually does this in in his marriage right now um but it's a Sunday sync resync every Sunday so take 15 20 minutes 30 minutes you know whatever that takes and just check in with each other.

greg 40:19

Oh that's a flashback to our first few years of marriage I would say in that like I I totally agree in the Sunday sink. Like I think that's a huge huge good end of the week beginning of the week great time to discuss um we'd go to our format like have a form again yeah have a system for this and have a format for what we're we had a very set in stone system.

jess 40:46

So we would say what I mean I remember we would always sit down and go what did we do like what did we do we go to church we do lunch with all the children and then we get everybody settled when Callie got old enough. Yes and then we would go to the grocery store we'd go to the grocery store and we sit down and have a coffee because it was a coffee shop. Yeah.

greg 41:02

And we won't hit that that the other day that Kroger because we were turned back and I just looked at the pulling a heartstrings we would say okay what did we do good this week like where what were our wins? Yeah uh what didn't work where did we screw up where we drop the ball um and so we would ask those questions then I would just then I would pull out the calendar of what everybody has going on. What's going on and so we would get the the business things we called them out of work. We plan our meals accordingly we got our meals for the next week all those and then we would just be like okay did you feel love this week did you feel appreciated this week did you feel like you had everything you needed like what could I do better? So then we started talking about the emotional personal side of that and we did that every Sunday.

jess 41:48

And then we'd go be silly in the grocery store.

greg 41:50

Yes and we would have fun and so it wasn't complex it wasn't it sometimes they weren't long the the business part of our the front part was pretty quick and sometimes we get and sometimes that conversation would continue sometimes I'd have to speed up because Callie would say I can't get the boys out of the creek or like there would there would be things that would yeah just like normal life. The emotional part of the conversation as we're shopping and walking through going to get what we want. So I think Sunday check-ins are amazing. Have a system have some questions don't just sit down and go okay let's sync together are you okay?

jess 42:24

Good are you okay?

greg 42:25

Good have some questions you ask each other real questions walk through those. Because I again again if you if you want to just wait till your marriage falls apart don't do any of this just cut this off ignore this just do your own thing and then wait till it just kind of falls apart and then there you go.

jess 42:43

Yeah so um anything else I mean honestly it's easy to let it fall apart.

Michael 42:49

Yeah it really comes in as like where you really dig your heels in I think it's fair to ask this be true with yourself because many times we don't do that and we've had episodes on that so I'm not going into that be real with yourself. If it's true that every person that walks down the aisle has the same goal we want the happily ever after we want the till death do us part yet over 50% of the time it doesn't work.

jess 43:21

More than that now though. Yes which is sad three quarters of marriages now fail.

Michael 43:27

Yeah well and especially your second marriage at 68% oh yeah that's don't work yeah yeah but if that is the case what are you doing to fight against that trend yeah that's all because the reality is if you're not doing something to fight against it statistically speaking you're gonna be

Support The Show And Final Takeaways

Michael 43:45

a part of it.

greg 43:45

Yeah right 100% so be real with yourself to say okay yeah it's Sunday that's my chill day that's a day I don't want to do anything okay well is your marriage worth it right is the person you're with worth it 100% so do it so anything else to add before we go I just I I want to say this like you say we're at this really interesting point where we're at a crux where we're trying to move on we're trying to get better cameras get better audio get better stuff if you want to help us continue to do this to continue to be better go to Patreon you can become a member on Patreon you can go to our store at unpacktogether.com buy some merch from the store um there's so many things like you can just go to Buzz Sprout you can just support us you can just straight up give us money uh just because you love us and just looks good so you can do any of those things just to help us continue what we're doing we're funding this out of our pockets we're not making money out of this we're not and that's not the goal our goal is to help people have healthier marriages healthier relationships so go check us out unpacktogether.com what helps us is to like subscribe share uh get those those things out the more listens the more downloads the more views all those things we have helps us so please do those thank you so much for continuing to grow in and we're gonna continue to record as long as we can yeah and I have a piece of good news yes it's only nine weeks till college football kicks off again so as always