Tails of Truth: The Truth about Veterinary Medicine

Shame Is Real: The Weight of Shoulds

• Dr. Angie Krause, DVM CVA CCRT • Episode 2

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Summary

 In this heartfelt episode of Tails of Truth, Dr. Angie and veterinary nurse, JoJo open up about the hidden struggles of pet guardianship. They unpack the guilt, shame, and self-judgment that often comes with trying to do “the right thing” for our pets—whether it’s managing weight, affording care, or navigating imperfect choices. Through candid stories about their own pets, they shine a light on the emotional load of pet parenting, the sometimes unrealistic expectations in vet culture, and the deep need for compassion over criticism. This episode is a gentle reminder that love—not perfection—is what our animals need most. 

Takeaways

  • Pet care can feel full of pressure and fear.
  • Veterinary professionals also struggle with guilt and shame.
  • It's common for pet guardians to feel judged for their choices.
  • Financial constraints can impact pet care decisions.
  • Pets often disguise their pain, making it hard to notice issues.
  • Pet guardians need nonjudgmental support from their veterinarians.
  • Just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should.
  • Pet parents deserve grace and understanding in their care efforts.
  • The bond between pets and their people is invaluable.
  • It's important to share experiences to alleviate feelings of isolation.

Sound Bites

  • "There's so much pressure, so much fear."
  • "I feel so lucky that the cats eat at all."
  • "There is no room for shame."
  • "I still deserve to have Fritz."
  • "Give yourself grace."

Please subscribe and review! xoxo Dr. Angie & JoJo


Dr. Angie (00:00.834)
Welcome back to the Tails of Truth podcast where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie. I'm an integrative veterinarian and I am joined with my veterinary nurse, JoJo. And today we are talking about all the fear, guilt, and shame we experience when we are responsible for taking care of a pet, whether it's a cat, dog, horse, bird, spider.

There can be so much pressure, so much fear, and a boatload of shame around what you are doing, what you're not doing, and what you should be doing. What are your thoughts, JoJo? Should.

JoJo Smith (00:42.338)
The should, the should. I'm living in the land of should. Yeah, I feel this on such a deep level. So much so that I don't want to do this episode.

Dr. Angie (00:48.528)
Ugh.

Dr. Angie (00:55.824)
Well, should I start? I, should we shame, we'll shame Dr. Angie first.

JoJo Smith (00:59.737)
you're end-

If you bring your shame to light, apparently it feels less so according to Brene Brown, for those who know Brene. So let's bring it to the light.

Dr. Angie (01:07.98)
I know. Well, let's, let's talk about this kitty under the light right now. This is my cat Fritz. I don't know if he's around here somewhere. I can show you. So Fritz is, belongs also to his sister Fiona here. got them when they were about 16 weeks old and they're two now. And, Fritz is fat and I know.

JoJo Smith (01:13.71)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie (01:35.78)
that I should be doing something about it and I can't do what I know I should be doing. So Fritz and Fiona, they eat an exclusively raw diet, either freeze dried or frozen raw. And Fritz is one of the very few cats that has managed to over consume calories on this said raw diet. I always tell people like...

JoJo Smith (02:01.838)
love him for this. Go Fritz!

Dr. Angie (02:06.352)
It's so relatable, right? Like he's just super into eating. guess you jump on. He wants to eat. and his sister could care less about food. And what I need to be doing is counting calories and separating them while they eat, but just feeding them and just feeding everyone in my house, myself.

JoJo Smith (02:08.824)
Yes. Get your chub on.

Dr. Angie (02:32.514)
my kids, have food sensitivities, everyone wants to eat something different. And I'm just, I feel so lucky that the cats eat at all. And when they're hungry, I just feed them because if I don't feed them, they are so annoying. They will hop up on my mantle and start eating my plants. Like, so Fritz has adopted this behavior. Well, he's going to jump up and he'll get the spider plant, the snake plant, all my succulents. And he

chops on them and looks at me and he's just like, I'm so hungry that if you don't feed me now, I'm going to ruin all your plants. And so I just feed him whatever he wants to eat. But what will happen is I'll put food down. Fiona notices I put the food down and then walks away because she doesn't care about food and then Fritz eats it all. So what I should be doing is counting the calories and separating them somehow. And I can't, and I know, I know that

JoJo Smith (03:03.598)
Hmm

Dr. Angie (03:29.088)
all of that extra weight, it's bad for his joints, he's only two. I know that it causes more inflammation. I know, I know that it's bad. And I can't do anything about it right now. And I kind of won't.

JoJo Smith (03:45.038)
When you say can't, you mean like you feel limited. Is that like resource limited? What do you mean by can't?

Dr. Angie (03:50.778)
This is good. Let's there. Pies me. Yes. Yes. It's true. I can't. And when I say maybe I won't, maybe it is more than I can't. I'm a single mom with two kids and like every day I'm just barely making things work. And I love these cats are like the center of our lives and our households, but like the thought of having to do that, I just can't.

And I feel there's not a day that goes by where I don't feel awful about it.

Because, then, I mean, and I'm sure we're going to get nasty comments. I'm going to say it anyways. And I guess let them come, I guess, let the judgment come. But there's not a day that goes by where I don't feel guilty about it. And like, I should be doing something about it.

JoJo Smith (04:29.07)
I'm afraid of that. Yeah.

JoJo Smith (04:41.166)
Hmm, I'm gonna say the word heard, heard. I hear that. I'm sorry it feels bad for you. Like just facing that each day. Fritz is happy.

Dr. Angie (04:42.16)
But I'm not going to.

Dr. Angie (04:52.11)
I wish we could just talk to Fritz. Can we just talk to Fritz? I know Fritz doesn't understand the consequences of his actions.

JoJo Smith (04:59.726)
And even if he did, would he still choose? I don't know. Right?

Dr. Angie (05:07.68)
I don't know. That is such a good point if you knew the consequences. I will catastrophize and think I am going to leave Fiona. They're paired and bonded, right? And he's going to die before her and it's going to be all my fault because she's going to be lonely. Totally. Okay.

JoJo Smith (05:22.284)
Mm-hmm. wow, you're like 15 years down the road. man, this is gonna be good.

Dr. Angie (05:39.194)
Hashtag hot mess. Like, you know, everyone thinks that veterinarians and veterinary staff, like we're all taking excellent care of our pets, but we're just like you. We're doing the best we can. Okay. Now you go. Don't leave me naked out here by myself.

JoJo Smith (05:50.584)
Yeah. Yep.

JoJo Smith (05:57.198)
I? it's such a vulnerable place. When you said the common thing, I'm like, no, nevermind. Let's just not, let's not. Let's not do it. I feel so fragile. but the reason we are doing this, and there's a why, the reason we are doing this is because we see this again and again and again that people feel so much shame. And so this is really like a unmasking, a truth telling.

Dr. Angie (06:05.57)
Okay.

Dr. Angie (06:25.497)
Yeah.

JoJo Smith (06:26.414)
so I have two dogs and I have a 10 and a half year old husky, probably some Malamute in there and a four year old COVID puppy. Like, you know, the ones that we all adopted in 2020 that are completely neurotic. There's something wrong with them.

And I just, Bodhi is getting old. I can see it. Like, I see the muscle wasting, I see the ways he's hiding under the bed. He's got some weird skin disease thing happening on his nose, his chin. Like, that I started peeling it off and it's been growing hair through it. So it's been, that's how long it's been there, like there's hair growing through it. I don't know what it is. And I know he needs blood work. I know he needs a dentistry. It's so clear.

like his gums are inflamed. And here's the thing for those who can see, I have all the tools sitting in my office behind me. I know that CBD works. I know that the perio care works. I know that probiotics work and I'm not doing it. And I'm like, what is that about? So I'm often envious of our clients, our customers, our online customers.

that just order on a regular basis and I'm like, there's people out there doing it. And every day.

Dr. Angie (07:50.542)
No. Yeah. And it works. And then they tell us that it works.

JoJo Smith (07:54.122)
I know the rush is gone. I know it works. I know I could take that CBD and it would help me be a little less me. Type A, neurotic, things need to be perfect. And I think that's what it comes down to, they need to be perfect. Because when I take him into a clinic, like I would feel no shame bringing him to you. But we just don't have, we don't have the brick and mortar and the things that he needs at this particular time. So I think when I take him in,

Dr. Angie (08:04.122)
Ha ha!

JoJo Smith (08:24.044)
I fear there's gonna be judgment about his behavior because he's a biter, which is not my fault that he's a biter. But he bites. So I have to get special treatment and I need to get us into a room and blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm not gonna give him a lepto vaccine. I'm not gonna give him a Bordetella vaccine. So I have to advocate in that way. And then on top of it, they're gonna look in his mouth and be like, what the hell?

Dr. Angie (08:27.812)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nope.

Dr. Angie (08:35.866)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (08:48.112)
Right.

Dr. Angie (08:54.832)
Yeah.

JoJo Smith (08:55.246)
You know, so I feel like I, it's kind of like I'm avoiding it. I know it needs to be done. I'm avoiding it. And also let's just be honest, it's about the pocketbook too. Christmas is a really hard time to go now dish out. Like I've been adding in my head what this is going to cost me. And it's probably going to be easily a $1,500 visit. Because he's growing bumps too. You know, so we.

Dr. Angie (09:00.944)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (09:17.803)
easily.

Yeah.

JoJo Smith (09:22.914)
We need to do all the things. He needs a tune up.

Dr. Angie (09:26.66)
needs a tune up.

JoJo Smith (09:27.598)
And it's also facing the fact that I know some of the news I'm going to get is that he's getting older. And that's where I can feel my face turning red and I feel sad. cause that's my soul dog.

Dr. Angie (09:41.527)
and it's easier to live in that place of denial. And we see that all the time with our clients. like, I just don't.

JoJo Smith (09:42.506)
Ugh, yeah.

JoJo Smith (09:47.904)
easier.

And it's so much easier to be on the side of, it's not your dog. Like, why can't they just see it just needs this? And so I do have those judgments sometimes because it seems so obvious. So I think there's part of me that's avoiding what's coming.

Dr. Angie (10:09.008)
Right. Well, and sometimes just the act of calling to make the appointment or trying to find that time. It's like we wake up every day and we're just trying to get things done, take care of our children, get our work done and get ourselves to our own doctor's appointments and our own healthcare. And you've had so much health stuff this year. It makes so much sense why that's not the first thing you're doing at 8 a.m. is.

JoJo Smith (10:10.445)
Yeah.

JoJo Smith (10:29.966)
So nice this year.

Dr. Angie (10:38.788)
finding a vet that can judge you, right?

JoJo Smith (10:39.021)
No.

Well, and that's, I'm trying to find the right vet. Like we have a great teams on Boulder that I would trust, but I live an hour from Boulder. So I'm thinking as he's going into his old age, I really need somebody who's like 10 minutes down the road. But I've been here and this is where so many of our clients have been once they get to us is the amount of pressure to do things that I don't want to do for him. So the thing that I can do is every day he gets farmer's dog.

Dr. Angie (10:56.208)
Thanks

JoJo Smith (11:11.534)
And this is like, he is, it's the one thing he will eat every day. Every other food we've done, he's like changed his mind over and over again in this one. So shout out to Farmers Dog. I feel good every time I open that and see those fruit, those veggies and you know, such, I'm like, doing that right. And they get walks every, there's a lot that's going right, you know.

Dr. Angie (11:28.43)
Yeah!

Dr. Angie (11:33.688)
Right. It's so easy to focus on all the things that aren't happening. but yeah, you're feeding your dog like cooked food. Yeah.

JoJo Smith (11:44.226)
Yeah, I mean we went through this when he got bit by a rattlesnake, which is a whole story in and of itself. The amount of pushback that I got about the small things, just about, I'm like we're in crisis right now, none of this other stuff matters.

Dr. Angie (11:58.66)
Yes.

Dr. Angie (12:04.4)
Like what would you get pushback about?

JoJo Smith (12:06.262)
about the leptovaccine, like they wanted to do a leptovaccine before he left the emergency. Because it's now a Corb vaccine.

Dr. Angie (12:08.541)
my god.

What?

I know, I know it is. That's insane. No sick animal should get a vaccine. I'm gonna get on the soapbox.

JoJo Smith (12:17.134)
And like, I know. And just, and me wanting to do another blood work test, because I don't know if you remember, but there were some things that were off that just didn't feel settled to me. And I'm like, I want to run one more, one more set of labs, because his urine was smelling really like sickly sweet. And it's just like that I didn't have a right to ask for that because they weren't recommending it. I don't know, there was just a piece. So I think I'm really afraid to face that again.

Dr. Angie (12:34.681)
Ahem.

Dr. Angie (12:47.3)
Well, I, I'm going to tell you that those fears are founded as someone who does relief. Here's what happens. Like a nurse comes in or it's often just a veterinary assistant. When I say just, it's not to make them less, but there are veterinary assistants that go into rooms that have these conversations. and they, they maybe haven't been in veterinary medicine. They're trained to say, here's our package. Here's what we recommend.

JoJo Smith (12:52.173)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie (13:17.154)
And they haven't been in the field long enough to understand the nuances of like, is a really inappropriate time to even talk about is your dog vaccinated for a leptospirosis. So yeah, you're like, my dog is slowly dying in front of you. we might not make it through this. Who cares if we're up to date on leptospirosis.

JoJo Smith (13:28.386)
right I'm like it's my daughter live that's what I wanted to know

JoJo Smith (13:41.646)
Love.

Dr. Angie (13:42.488)
And I think that's where there's such a disconnect between what the conversations veterinarians want to have. I guarantee you no veterinary nurse brings a case back to the veterinarian and says, Hey, this dog just was bit by a rattlesnake and no one, no veterinarians. Like, are they up to date on their vaccines? No one cares. It's not going through our minds. We don't care. my gosh. Yeah.

JoJo Smith (14:01.442)
No, yeah, no.

And that was my first experience with corporate medicine and veterinary medicine. And it was a different experience. But that is all the small clinics are being bought up. And so I'm really struggling to find that good fit place to like, and I took Sage, the four year old in for she ripped her dewclaw. And because I didn't want to go try another place or advocate for myself, I paid.

Dr. Angie (14:11.498)
yeah.

Dr. Angie (14:18.224)
It's so true.

JoJo Smith (14:31.438)
$3,000 to have it tow removed because they had a board certified surgeon. I'm like, great, let's do it.

Dr. Angie (14:38.446)
I know you had a board certified surgeon. Remove a dewclaw.

JoJo Smith (14:41.358)
I did! I did! $3,000 later with my discount!

But those are the decisions I will make. It's beautiful. Her toe-less foot is so pretty. like, not necessary.

Dr. Angie (14:49.658)
That was done well. Totally. Well that, I know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know that boarded surgeon does not care about her vaccine status of leptospirosis. Yeah.

JoJo Smith (15:04.198)
and I think I like that about that place is they were just accommodating. So, you know, I don't know.

Dr. Angie (15:10.02)
Yeah, that's hard. That's so hard. And I see that. And I see what happens is that, you know, there's some like, okay, well, they declined this, they declined that. And there's not enough time to just have a, an educated conversation and a nonjudgmental conversation. So I think what we're kind of distilling down JoJo is that the, the judgment starts with our profession. I think we should own.

JoJo Smith (15:37.134)
Hmm

Dr. Angie (15:38.49)
that there's a lot of our profession that's, you know, passing on a lot of this judgment when it's maybe not warranted. I don't know. Just gonna throw that out there.

JoJo Smith (15:49.294)
No, I think it does partially start with us, but I think there are a lot of judgy people at period out there. I mean, we've heard it before and I'm sure we'll do an episode on rehoming and that will bring up so much tender places and people, triggered places. Yeah, I just noticed.

Dr. Angie (15:58.544)
Mmm, yeah.

Dr. Angie (16:04.937)
yes, we should.

JoJo Smith (16:15.458)
my avoidance and I know you've talked about this, you're really open and this is what gets people to feel comfortable is when you go into an appointment and people are feeling shame around what their cat is eating. It tends to be cats. They'll be like, I know I shouldn't say this word in front of you, but my cat eats kibble. and then you talk about Simba. You're kidding. You're like, had this cat and how it made you feel like a fraud. Do you want to tell that story?

Dr. Angie (16:33.582)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Angie (16:43.962)
my gosh. We, yes, let's talk about my fraudulent feeding. of my, can do it for my pug too. My pug Pugsley. and then my cat Simba. So my cat had really bad IBD and then I felt guilt. here we'll just talk about all the layers of guilt. So he was a vomiter and I didn't do anything about it. I knew better and I just didn't do anything about it I had young children. And so he would vomit and I just kind of.

JoJo Smith (16:51.79)
time.

Dr. Angie (17:11.022)
I don't know what I was doing. so then one day I just went to go pet him and I was like, Simba has lost a lot of weight. was like skin and bone. And I was like, Simba's gonna like Simba's dying. And I thought, no, Simba got cancer and suddenly lost all this weight, but it didn't happen suddenly. It happened over time. And I felt so guilty that I didn't notice it. And so he ended up having inflammatory bowel disease, which was great. I was for sure thinking he had lymphoma, but he didn't. had inflammatory bowel disease.

And, he did the best on Royal Canaan high calorie GI food. I recommend that food all the time, but at the time I was like, you know, I couldn't fix it with a raw diet. I couldn't fix it with all the brands that I would want to feed and that I've represented over time. But at the end of the day, he did super well on Royal Canaan. And I, for a long time, didn't want to tell people. I remember I was.

working for one of my favorite companies of all time and they were like, what do you feed your cat? I was like, no, it's, it's not your food. It's not even the food.

JoJo Smith (18:16.184)
Maybe we need to change that question. What will your cat eat? Not what will you feed your cat, but what will your cat eat? Just flip that on its head.

Dr. Angie (18:21.9)
my gosh, that's such a good one. What does your cat not have diarrhea on? That's what you feed. and then my pug ended up having, he was so atopic, meaning that he was allergic to food and the environment. And I, God, I did all the brands that I love. home cooked for him. I tried raw.

I did it all. did at the time, the fresh, the freshest food you could get was the nom nom now, which I think is such a cool brand. It's similar to farmer's dog. Yeah, they make such great recipes. then, anyway, so we have all these great brands and I did that and he just was so itchy. So I finally broke down and put them on Ultimino, which is a really hydrolyzed, high baller, Jenna food. He was so happy. He was so much more energetic. He finally put on a little bit of weight.

JoJo Smith (18:52.052)
I love, I love Nom Nom now, yeah.

Dr. Angie (19:16.004)
He didn't have gas that would like infiltrate the whole house. And I think he always had a stomach ache. And when I put him on the Ultimino, he did great. And I never took him off. And so when people would say, what are you feeding your cat and your dog? And so at the time I had a cat and a dog and I was like, just Royal Canaan. I'm an integrative holistic veterinarian only feeding Royal Canaan.

which is, you know, I thought what I should be doing is figuring out how to make it work. And I thought if anyone could do it, it's an integrative veterinarian. It's you, Angie, you're supposed to have the answers. and at the end of the day, the technology that was in that food, worked so well for my pets. Humbling, humbling, and shout out to Royal Canaan. Thank you.

JoJo Smith (19:57.902)
Yeah, that's a good word. It's humbling.

Yes, it's that, it's that piece of just...

Dr. Angie (20:09.424)
Yes.

JoJo Smith (20:13.452)
You know better, or this idea of I know better, or I can see there's something going on with Bodhi's nose, like there's something. But I also have this idea that I should know. I should know what it is. Why don't I know what it is?

Dr. Angie (20:22.34)
Right, there's something.

Dr. Angie (20:30.648)
Well, this is a little segue. And if you need to pull me back in, bring me back in, but that's always JoJo's job is to keep me like organized. Yeah, totally. Like every single day. So there's this idea that just because we should do something or just because we can do something, let me say it the right way. Just because we can do something, should we do it?

JoJo Smith (20:39.454)
to reel you back in? Go off the rail, go.

JoJo Smith (20:50.51)
Mm.

Dr. Angie (20:56.272)
And I find this a lot with like veterinary oncologists and internist is that sometimes they take my cases further than I think anyone should take a dog or a cat. Like just because you can treat them doesn't mean you should. And I think especially as our pets age, and I think it's a good conversation to have about Bodhi, like because he hates veterinary care and it's like,

JoJo Smith (21:17.912)
hates it.

Dr. Angie (21:19.406)
where is the line? So let's say we did a biopsy, like, or would we do a biopsy? Is that nose thing bothering him or is it just guilting you?

JoJo Smith (21:28.878)
That's it's bothering him like he's out on the cement, know rubbing his nose so It's time. I was just trying to put all the puzzle pieces together. So I have the answer before I go in But that's not that's not gonna work

Dr. Angie (21:31.715)
Okay.

Okay, so we should do something. Yeah.

Dr. Angie (21:42.928)
Right. Well, I mean, guess the worst thing it could be is some autoimmune something. Or it's just really bad. Yeah.

JoJo Smith (21:49.358)
Yeah, I don't know. Something's changing in him. Yeah, he's 10 and a half. Something is shifting. And 10 and a half doesn't sound that old, but it is when you're a 70 pound dog. Yeah, I'm just seeing it.

Dr. Angie (22:00.772)
Yeah. Yeah. Cause what we think that average lifespan is like what 12 for a 70 pound dog. And so.

JoJo Smith (22:06.178)
Yeah. Ugh.

It's when it comes to our own pets and I see it all the time, we don't know the answers. If it's your pet, it's so easy. And I can remember coming to your house once and seeing Simba and I'm like, Angie, he's losing weight. And you're like, is he? Because it's so hard when it's right in front of you and when you have the attachment. And so I have so much empathy when people are in that space of not really knowing.

Dr. Angie (22:10.96)
Ugh, mortality.

Dr. Angie (22:18.625)
my gosh. No, no.

Dr. Angie (22:27.354)
Yes.

Dr. Angie (22:31.47)
Yes.

JoJo Smith (22:39.778)
what to do or being afraid to uncover the answer.

Dr. Angie (22:44.142)
Right. Cause when Simba was dying, so then eventually years and years later, Simba went on to develop lymphoma. And I think you would come over and I'd say, how does he look now? Was that right? Yeah. I'd like, because I couldn't, I couldn't assess. It's I was too close.

JoJo Smith (22:59.15)
Yeah, and there was a time when it was like, that's a vast difference. Like there was a time in just maybe a week or two where I could see. But it's hard. when you're, yeah, it's like when you look at yourself in the mirror every day, you don't see the changes that other people see. But to bring us back in, we see this with our pet parents all the time. The things that they're afraid to say to us, the things they're afraid of being judged for.

Dr. Angie (23:04.656)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie (23:15.694)
I know. Yeah. Okay, we're coming back.

Dr. Angie (23:23.802)
Yes.

JoJo Smith (23:27.714)
the things they want to hide from us. And it can span, like we have a pet in the practice right now. So this just made me feel so sad. It was first time she went to the brick and mortar clinic. She was shamed for feeding raw. And the appointment was nothing to do, it was for broken bone. And yet she was being shamed for feeding raw. So then this kitty's on rest.

Dr. Angie (23:30.175)
I know.

Dr. Angie (23:52.132)
Yeah.

JoJo Smith (23:56.91)
for weeks, months I think, almost two months. And now she's gone in and the cat's gained weight. And she got the talking to about her cat gaining weight. And I'm like, she can't win. She can't win. Like, the cat's been on rest, so the cat gained weight. Makes sense.

Dr. Angie (24:09.754)
She can't win.

Dr. Angie (24:14.992)
I know, I know. And she, I know which client we're talking about. She tries so hard. So hard. takes such great care of her animals. And, yeah, that's that, that is hard to watch that happen. And I see so many of our clients being, they feel guilty when they can't pay for something, when they can't afford something.

JoJo Smith (24:22.392)
so hard.

JoJo Smith (24:40.697)
yeah.

Dr. Angie (24:42.72)
And unfortunately in veterinary medicine, a lot of life or death situations come down to not having enough finances. Like that is a reason why some...

JoJo Smith (24:50.097)
huh.

Can we jot that down to talk about insurance on an episode?

Dr. Angie (24:56.326)
my gosh. Yes. Let's talk about insurance and Intel. Then everyone get insurance. but yes, I mean, not having enough money. And I always tell people, like, I, I ensure my two cats because I couldn't afford veterinary care otherwise. Like there's no shame. Like everyone, want everyone to know veterinarians can't afford veterinary care either. It's just like how, you know, your GP that you go to, they couldn't afford.

you know, a surgery without insurance either. it's, no one else can afford veterinary medicines. It's not just you. It's not just you. It's not, it's really expensive because it's getting better all the time. Technology is good and it's expensive.

JoJo Smith (25:29.495)
huh.

JoJo Smith (25:36.782)
expensive.

JoJo Smith (25:43.15)
That is so true. I know that's a piece with Bodhi is I'm just like, okay, when does the pocketbook say now is okay. Now it's okay to go spend that 15 to 2000 1500 depending on what they they learn. But yeah, people feel a lot of shame. They feel shame about what they're feeding. They feel shame that they didn't get care every year. They feel shame that, you they didn't notice something sooner. They didn't notice, their pets pain. That's one.

Dr. Angie (26:06.414)
Yeah. my gosh, yes.

JoJo Smith (26:11.256)
when pets are masters at disguising pain.

Dr. Angie (26:14.808)
Yeah, especially cats. Yes. I see a lot of people.

JoJo Smith (26:15.97)
Yeah, we see a lot of it, especially cats. And there's no room for it. That's what I want to say. There is no room for shame. I don't care the situation unless you are absolutely abusing an animal. I mean, that is a line.

Dr. Angie (26:29.688)
Right.

JoJo Smith (26:32.462)
But when people are just trying to survive and make it, like I hear that, I've heard that about the on-housed population that have pets.

Dr. Angie (26:40.73)
Yeah.

JoJo Smith (26:42.272)
And people like they don't have a right to have a pet. And what I see is those people will go out of the way to make sure that pet is cared for in a way in which they have companionship and they have, maybe this is maybe I'm going off the rails, bring me back in. I've gone off the rail. I'm like, that's a whole nother thing. I get, I feel worked up about that. I'm like that pet is loved and is offering support that we aren't offering to that person. And there's some, there's some mutual,

Dr. Angie (26:56.432)
I don't think you are.

Dr. Angie (27:07.376)
Right?

JoJo Smith (27:11.362)
Beneficial, it's a mutually beneficial relationship from what I can tell. They're rarely skinny pets.

Dr. Angie (27:18.48)
They're rarely skinny. They're well exercised. they're outside a lot, unfortunately, like, but for the dog, yeah, they're, yeah, they're living a good life. And I think just because you can't afford the, the big interventions doesn't mean you don't deserve to have a pet. Although this is a conversation I see a lot of veterinarians having online now. And some veterinarians would say, yeah, actually you, you don't deserve to have a pet and you shouldn't have a pet. And.

JoJo Smith (27:21.324)
Yeah.

Unleashed? They're like, yeah.

Dr. Angie (27:47.832)
As someone who's in my adult life, my financial situation has varied so greatly and in ways that I couldn't have ever predicted. I don't think you can commit to a pet and that's going to live 10 to 20 years and know exactly where you're going to be financially and have all the answers. Another plug for insurance, but, I think that, you know, even in, or if you're not like, you know, I still deserve to have Fritz.

I'm going to just say that you still deserve to have Bodhi. We still deserve to have these pets, even though maybe we're not doing everything we can all the time.

JoJo Smith (28:31.542)
I just let that sink in.

JoJo Smith (28:39.566)
Sometimes I just feel someone can do it better.

Dr. Angie (28:46.2)
I mean, I guess they probably could, but it wouldn't be you. And at the end of the day, our pets are so bonded to us.

JoJo Smith (28:50.22)
No, and I know that he is so loved and so cared for. Yeah, and he chose me. I'm just gonna say it.

Dr. Angie (29:05.06)
He did choose you. Yes. And there are a lot of things we're not doing for ourselves. So sometimes when I say like, gosh, I wish I could make Fritz's calorie consumption perfect, but I wish that I could eat less processed foods and I wish I worked out more. I, and so all I can do is every day just make the best decisions. And I think that's same, the same with Bodhi is like, you know, all we can do is just notice the shame and try to make the next right step.

when we can make it and expecting yourself to make that next right step over the holidays when all your kids are home from college might be a little bit much.

JoJo Smith (29:43.215)
right.

And with that, I'm just gonna give myself grace and know that I will be cared for. It will happen.

Dr. Angie (29:54.778)
Give yourself grace.

JoJo Smith (29:56.962)
Yeah. Give yourself grace.

Dr. Angie (29:58.64)
Totally. Yes. Okay. Well, we would love to hear from you. Yeah. How do you feel guilty? And then how do you deal with your shame and how do you give yourself grace when we're not all doing it as perfectly as we could or as perfectly as someone tells you it could be done? What do you do? We'd love to hear from you. Leave us a comment below.

You can find us at natural cat vet or Boulder holistic vet. And if you want to have a more in depth conversation about what you can be doing for your pet, you

Dr. Angie (30:54.8)
and book a consultation with me online at boulderholisticvet.com. You can go to our online consultations. And JoJo, is there anything else you'd like to say before we wrap it up?

JoJo Smith (31:11.086)
I think it's perfect timing because it's saying my internet's not stable.

Dr. Angie (31:17.814)
Okay, not stable. Okay, well we will see you next time.