Tails of Truth: The Truth about Veterinary Medicine

More Than Medicine: Pride and Inclusivity

• Dr. Angie Krause, DVM CVA CCRT • Episode 8

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Summary 

In this powerful and vulnerable episode of Tails of Truth, Dr. Angie and JoJo sit down to talk about something bigger than vet medicine—truth-telling, identity, and standing up for what's right. Intentionally airing during Pride Month, this episode shines a light on Dr. Angie’s decision to come out publicly as a member of the LGBTQ+ community, the backlash she received, and the overwhelming support that followed.

Together, Dr. Angie and JoJo unpack what it means to be a queer woman running a small business in today’s social and political climate, the emotional impact of hate, and why inclusivity and DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) aren’t just buzzwords—they're vital for the future of veterinary medicine and society at large.

Listeners will find inspiration in the vulnerability, humor, and hope woven throughout this conversation. Whether you're part of the LGBTQ+ community or an ally seeking to do better, this episode is a reminder that your voice matters—and it’s more important than ever to use it.

👉 Join our community of compassionate truth-tellers and sign up for the Boulder Holistic Vet newsletter 

Takeaways

  • Speaking the truth—especially during tough times—is a powerful act of resistance.
  • Allyship in veterinary medicine (and beyond) requires visibility, vulnerability, and courage.
  • Hate may be loud, but love is louder—and far more abundant.
  • DEI is not about exclusion; it’s about correcting imbalance and opening doors.
  • Small businesses have big power in shaping inclusive, value-driven communities.
  • Personal identity impacts professional life—authenticity empowers both.
  • Representation matters at every level: gender, age, background, belief.
  • Even if you're small, every action toward inclusivity counts.
  • Leadership means modeling bravery—for clients, community, and kids.
  • The vet field is not separate from social justice; it’s part of it.


Please subscribe and review! xoxo Dr. Angie & JoJo


Dr. Angie (00:00)
Welcome back to Tales of Truth. I'm Dr. Angie and this is my veterinary nurse JoJo. And this is a place where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. And today we're going to get slightly off topic, but not really.

JoJo Smith (00:06)
Hey.

I want to talk about what might land well with some and not well with others. Dr. Angie, you own a small business. It's right now you and me. And we have dialogues about what it means to use our voices in this industry as a small business.

in this political climate, in this social construct that we live in, and knowing that it could have some financial repercussions. And this is where I really admire you as a business owner. One of many places, but I admire this piece of your business ownership. And this last week, we're gonna call this episode hate mail. This last week, you,

decided to be very open about an aspect of your life in a newsletter to our list. Do you wanna say what you outed yourself about?

Dr. Angie (01:15)
Yes.

Yes. I, okay, so it's February 7th. We're recording this February 7th, 2025. And so when you listen to this episode, might be years into the future, but you know, we have this new administration and there's been a lot of censoring and how does that censoring? That's just like erasure. Yeah. Of, um,

JoJo Smith (01:37)
That's so mild. Yeah, let's be honest.

Dr. Angie (01:42)
trans people, queer people, women, know, black people, Hispanic, Latino. I mean, like, it's just, it goes on. Like, I don't even know if we could cover.

JoJo Smith (01:54)
We should probably go, if you're not white and not Christian, are being asked to step aside and be forgotten. Is that a fair way to say it? That's the easier way.

Dr. Angie (02:02)
Yeah.

Absolutely. I

think that's right. I don't want to miss anybody. Like, ⁓ yeah. So in response to that, I feel like the only thing I can do in my position is to just keep using my voice. And so I, I sent an email saying, Hey, I'm part of the LGBTQ community. And so for every flag they take down in government buildings or wherever, let's put up.

another one, let's stick up for trans people. I mean, let's just start sticking up for our fellow human beings. And so then we were talking about all the ways that this year is about telling the truth and there's so much power in the truth and that it can be a rebellious act. And so

JoJo Smith (02:46)
Mm-hmm.

I think it's

the most rebellious act.

Dr. Angie (02:55)
It's the most rebellious act. And so we, we did some truth telling and, ⁓ you know, it was very much like, let's keep creating spaces because what I worry about as a member of the LGBTQ community is that people are going to think that everyone just went away and we all got quiet. And so, yeah, so we're not going to go away.

JoJo Smith (02:58)
Yes.

Hmm, ⁓ that gave me chills.

Dr. Angie (03:21)
We're not gonna get quiet. It's too late. It's too late for any of that.

JoJo Smith (03:24)
Right.

But it's disappointing to a subset of people who may see you in a certain light, right? Like if I'm looking at you, I might think that you are just a privileged white woman and don't have any marginalized community part of you. So this outing of yourself was a first that I've seen you do on this particular part of your life.

Dr. Angie (03:40)
right.

Yes, I've never, I have never found it to be relevant. I mean, we always do stuff for pride and we have, you know, in our store, a cat person with a pride flag on it, you know, for a t-shirt. So it's like, we've always been supportive of all things LGBTQ, but I have.

JoJo Smith (03:55)
Mm-hmm.

Those are a little

more covert though, like someone has to find it. Right?

Dr. Angie (04:16)
It's been a lot more covert. Absolutely.

Yes. And so, yeah, no, this is the first time where I'm like, yep, no, this is me. This is what I'm doing. And I think...

JoJo Smith (04:24)
Yeah. I think

I was scared for you because I had judgment of certainly this is not going to be received well. We need to talk about the possibility that we may lose paying customers and you know, those are, that's really important right now, you know, to have, to have, I was so pleasantly surprised at the amount of love and support that that email received.

Dr. Angie (04:28)
Yes.

Right. Yeah.

JoJo Smith (04:50)
I wonder how it felt for you.

Dr. Angie (04:52)
Yeah, no, it felt good. think it's so funny as a woman in my forties, I think, well, I, know, all the work that my mother's and grandmother's generation has done is coming undone. And it doesn't feel like an option to not keep moving forward. Like we can't just stand still. And so it felt really important to use my voice.

and to say it bravely, whether it cost me money or it cost me subscribers, it feels really important because at the end of the day, I can't look at my community, my children, my neighbors and say, I'm sorry, I didn't do anything. I could have done something. And so I feel like it was important.

JoJo Smith (05:36)
Hmm.

Well, and you have two girls who are watching you.

Dr. Angie (05:42)
I have two girls that are watching me and it feels really important that they see their mother being who she authentically is and more importantly, sticking up for other people. Because while I might not be a trans person, trans rights are human rights. And so when we start thinking, well, that doesn't matter for, I'm not trans, so I don't need to worry about that. I think that is.

That's being on the wrong side of history to think that you're exempt.

JoJo Smith (06:13)
Mm-hmm.

We're sure. Yeah, it's interesting

because we started this conversation and I'm like, I want to talk about the hate mail, right? Because we did receive one was like questionable. I'm like, I'm not sure if you are suggesting that you're angry or not. The other one was so clear that they were going to spend the time telling you where you belong and what's wrong with trans people. And when I was reading that, I felt a lot of sadness for the person who wrote it.

Dr. Angie (06:32)
Yeah, I know she was.

JoJo Smith (06:45)
I thought what a limiting belief and what it must feel like to be so scared of people in the world. Like to really believe, I I have it sitting in front of me that the drag queen story hours are molesting your children. Like that's in this email, right? And so I felt really sad for this person and people like them that are moving through the world scared of other people in the way that

Dr. Angie (07:02)
Right?

JoJo Smith (07:12)
And as you were talking, like, you know what? None of that's important. Like the important piece is that there are people using their voice in a positive manner. There are allies. There are people willing to put their business on the line. Like bigger business, Ben and Jerry's is killing it right now, right? Like they are, no, we're not gonna be silent. We're gonna be very vocal. And I think that...

Dr. Angie (07:28)
Totally.

Yeah.

JoJo Smith (07:36)
The piece as we were talking just now that felt so good inside of me instead of like, I'm like, you know what? I can put the email to the side. It doesn't really matter. And I will say Dr. Angie responded to that email with so much love. I'm so glad she got to her inbox before me. which you can talk to that. But the piece was the more, like I want to know where the companies stand that I'm soliciting.

Dr. Angie (07:51)
You

JoJo Smith (08:01)
You know, so I want to know if it's a small business and they are on the side that I'm on and I want to put my money there. And so while it may shed some people who are like, I'm not giving you any more business. I hope that like attracts like. Like that's what I started. I had this moment just in this podcast of like hope of like attracts like, like we will, the right people will find us and we will find the right people.

Dr. Angie (08:25)
Absolutely. And I hope that that email reached someone in the community that thought, okay, someone else is saying it. Like, we're not all going to be afraid to speak about who we are and claim our identity. And so that felt really important. And yeah, that, the woman that emailed us and she just cited so many, first of all, incorrect kind of propaganda.

JoJo Smith (08:37)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (08:51)
where you're like, where did you hear that from? That's not actually, yeah. She was talking about pride parades where people were naked, which I do think sometimes that has happened.

JoJo Smith (08:53)
Yeah, somebody sold that to her and she bought it. She's buying it. Yeah.

there is nudity. Yeah, but no,

it was the line after that, the naked homosexuals are chanting we're coming for your children. I've memorized this email now.

Dr. Angie (09:09)
Right. I know. And like that's

absolutely not happening. And, and so I think that's, you know, I got to listen to her. Basically she just told me I was gonna, was it burn and fiery lakes or of I.

JoJo Smith (09:24)
I don't know, I grew up learning that I was gonna burn

there, so I've just like resided that that's my afterlife. So that part probably I just skimmed over. I'm like, oh yeah, see you there.

Dr. Angie (09:28)
Hahaha

Yeah.

And so I just responded to her because the point of my email was to tell everyone like, you are welcome here. Like get in here. Everyone's welcome here. And so I just responded to her and I just said, I want you to know that you're welcome here. And maybe I said sending love. don't know what, how I, I think it was just like two sentences of like, you're welcome.

JoJo Smith (09:40)
Everyone. Yeah, not, yeah.

Yeah, I don't know, it was.

There was two sentences which was appropriate. It was appropriate. I, they're just so, I mean it is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven paragraphs.

Dr. Angie (09:59)
Right.

Yes. Yeah.

JoJo Smith (10:06)
of what's wrong with you, what's wrong with

the community, with scripture that has been handpicked for this moment, you know.

Dr. Angie (10:14)
Yeah.

JoJo Smith (10:15)
So I just think that

we all need like a collective breath that this, there are more people that believe this and I feel very sad for those in the LGBTQ community or other marginalized communities where this is right in their face. You know, where they are not safe to be open. Like I'm teary, so maybe you should talk. feel just, it's a hard time right now.

Dr. Angie (10:29)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. No.

It's a really hard time because voices like hers are given a national platform and are being expressed in executive orders and attempted passing of legislation. And you know, what's happening with the military where, you know,

JoJo Smith (10:48)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (10:59)
with trans people and then even, you know, it's a military, I can't remember what it was, but there was a military educational institution that like the, couldn't have any clubs that had anything to do with women or Asian or like there was all these kind of like band clubs and it's just so sad. It's so sad. Yeah.

JoJo Smith (11:19)
Hmm.

It is so sad. Yeah,

I think that that is it like underneath my anger is the sadness that there are people moving through the world who really believe this enough that they needed to respond with seven paragraphs. You know, I think and I think I wanted to protect you from even seeing it. But I think somehow I'm having I'm more emotional than you are.

Dr. Angie (11:37)
I it.

Mm-hmm.

I

JoJo Smith (11:48)
But I think it

translates to other things, right? Like have an Asian child who came home, you know, that he's adopted and he's like, somebody called me a chink. And I'm like, which I don't know if I was allowed to say that on a podcast, but that was the word he received. So I think it's just seeing words infiltrating and having impact on people that I care about and the people I don't know yet that I do care about and just.

Dr. Angie (11:56)
Yeah.

Yeah.

JoJo Smith (12:15)
I feel really proud to be here and being able to use our voice because somebody might be listening to me like, what does this have to do with veterinary medicine? And in some sense, it has everything to do with veterinary medicine because it's us putting one foot in front of the other every day to serve everyone.

Dr. Angie (12:29)
Absolutely, yes. And for every voice like hers that they're writing the paragraphs of hate, like, I do think that there are more voices that aren't. So we just have to...

JoJo Smith (12:41)
But I don't know

if that's because we live in a very, but I guess our newsletter list is national. Yeah.

Dr. Angie (12:48)
It's national. Yeah.

I think. Yes. And we live, mean, in the Denver Metro and then even more so in Boulder County, like obviously we're a very liberal area. ⁓ but I think overall. Most Americans are not against trans people. Most Americans are not against LG. You know, I just, I don't think that that's.

the majority. And maybe that's what I have to believe every day to roll out of bed. That, ⁓ the LG TVQ, you know, population is under that much scrutiny. think it's just a minority that got into power because throughout my life, throughout my 43 years, I have only ever seen it be easier.

JoJo Smith (13:17)
No.

Yeah

Hmm.

Dr. Angie (13:41)
and easier and easier and not that it's ever been easy, but like, think about where we came from in the eighties with the AIDS epidemic and you know, the, like how, how closeted everything is to now, like, you know, last year I could get pride stuff at Target.

JoJo Smith (13:59)
have pride stuff from Target,

but damn you, Target, for taking away your DEI. Which, ugh, yeah.

Dr. Angie (14:03)
Right. I would love to

talk about DEI. Let's talk about DEI. And I think this is something that people aren't going to understand that are against DEI, because I actually don't understand why anyone would ever be against DEI. Cause this idea that people that aren't qualified or being hired because of DEI, but that's not, that's not what DEI is about. But so veterinarians, this is like kind of a little tangent, but

JoJo Smith (14:21)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (14:28)
veterinarians are almost all women. There are very few male veterinarians.

JoJo Smith (14:32)
I was thinking about that

this morning. like, how many male, I had one practice I worked at that had male veterinarians. The rest have been female.

Dr. Angie (14:38)
Yeah. Like if I ever come across a man in, like when I walk into a clinic and there's a man there, I'm like, Whoa, there's a man here. There's just usually, with an, yeah, at any level, like if you walk into a clinic, there might be like a token token man, but like it's, it's not, and that's a problem. It's that's a problem. We need more men in veterinary medicine and we need more men too, that are going to be willing to do some of.

JoJo Smith (14:46)
Especially like at the nurse level too. There's very few. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (15:07)
the roles to play some of the roles veterinarians play in the, food animal medicine, ⁓ in food processing. And, and so I think the, you know, this is one moment where like DEI is really important that we include more men in the profession. And so.

JoJo Smith (15:26)
How about

ageism too, in terms of DEI? It's also an aging outfield.

Dr. Angie (15:31)
Yes?

JoJo Smith (15:32)
I wonder how we

can also like bring more experienced people in.

Dr. Angie (15:37)
I know. And so people don't understand that they think, ⁓ you're just not, now you can't be hired because you're a woman. And I'm like, that's affirmative action. That's actually not the same thing. ⁓ and so I think that, and I, of course, totally support affirmative action because I think at some point we have to take responsibility for the system we created.

JoJo Smith (15:47)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (16:03)
All affirmative action is to me is just taking responsibility and.

JoJo Smith (16:06)
Well, it

takes decades of writing or putting ourselves right side up for those communities that have been suppressed in getting, I mean, we're not starting on a level playing field.

Dr. Angie (16:20)
we are not starting on a level playing field at all. so...

JoJo Smith (16:23)
Women just started

voting win. Women just started being able to get a credit card win. It's not been that long. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Angie (16:28)
recently. It's not been that long. So important.

So I think people need to understand there's probably, there's no industry I can imagine that's not going to be affected by DEI. the removal of DEI negatively. And I'm just thinking, no, we need a DEI in veterinary medicine. schools really do recruit for

people that will come through and be a food animal veterinarian, you know, and, be in the dairy industry. And, and so I, I am kind of sad to see, to see that go from even just in our own little area of.

JoJo Smith (17:09)
What do you think keeps men out of veterinary medicine?

Dr. Angie (17:11)
I have no idea. What does keep men out of veterinary medicine?

JoJo Smith (17:16)
Well, as far from a nursing perspective, I just thought that was probably translates into human medicine too. I mean, I see a lot more female nurses than we do male nurses. So I don't know if it's, is it an empathic field? Do boys not get brought up believing they belong in empathic fields? I don't know.

Dr. Angie (17:25)
Right. So that makes sense.

Yeah.

That's such a good question. I don't know, because when I came into the field, it was just already female dominated. think out of my class that graduated in 2007 was maybe 120 people. Maybe there were a dozen men. So like it was already a sorority. It was just, and then the classes above and below, it was just women, which I mean was so fun. And you know, it's.

JoJo Smith (17:50)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Angie (18:02)
I love to see women being empowered, but also, you know, I think as a feminist too, you're just like, okay, well, we also want men represented in the field too. And so it's important.

JoJo Smith (18:12)
Yeah.

Have you been working, have you had male nurses or in the relief work that you've been doing? Like is there, like now that you're out there, are you seeing any change in?

Dr. Angie (18:23)
There are some, yeah, like let's say since probably in the last 30 shifts I've seen maybe three or four.

So still not very, very common, but it's, it's important. We, we need them too.

JoJo Smith (18:41)
Yeah, not often that you hear females say, bring on the men. It's usually like, where are the females in leadership? That is typically the question. But females are running veterinary medicine.

Dr. Angie (18:42)
Yeah.

You

Right. Yes.

And think one thing that you and I, you know, when all the DEI was getting rolled back, the first thing I thought of was like, okay, well, how can we support DEI? I'm like, what's my DEI policy of like the team of two?

JoJo Smith (19:10)
I

know I'm like, well, we are female owned. We do have one, we have 50 % in the LGBTQ community.

Dr. Angie (19:13)
Hahaha

I know.

JoJo Smith (19:19)
I can't really, I'm old, so we can check that box too. But it is, that's a challenge, I mean.

Dr. Angie (19:27)
Yeah.

Well, then I thought about like, well, how, you know, what could we do from an accessibility standpoint or how can we be more inclusive in who we're serving? so it is definitely, it's something we actually think about anyway. We've thought about this for years of like, how can we be more diverse?

JoJo Smith (19:45)
I think we, yeah, I think we think

we try to approach this business as responsibly as possible from our, what kind of economic impact, what kind of, know, ecological impact, what kind of, I mean, I think we're asking those root questions. If you wanna talk about root causes, I think that's what we exist for. But I mean, it's not like we can just add staff just to.

Dr. Angie (20:07)
Yes.

JoJo Smith (20:13)
make it more.

Dr. Angie (20:15)
We can't,

but I'm like, okay, how do we serve people with, you know, more equity? And, you know, it's hard because we are small and we're very niche and, but I think it's something that we should continue to explore. And at every moment we could be more inclusive. We should, we should choose that.

JoJo Smith (20:22)
huh.

Mm-hmm.

We should end on that. Every moment that we can be more inclusive, we should.

Dr. Angie (20:44)
No matter how big or small it seems, because we feel so small. We're just like this little team. It's like, well, what can we do? But I think every little bit counts. So sending that email was a moment that we created space.

JoJo Smith (20:55)
Mm-hmm.

And I had a thought that I will present offline. So you don't have to commit to it, but I'm like, oh, maybe we could. dun, dun again. Like I'm just leaving it but more inclusivity.

Dr. Angie (21:00)
Okay.

More inclusivity. We would love to hear from you. We would love to hear your thoughts, good or bad about this episode. It's okay to leave a negative comment. It still gets us positive effects in the algorithm. So I welcome your hate. I will give it a heart. Love you so much and we will see you.

JoJo Smith (21:15)
Mm-hmm.

haha

Don't let it find me

first.

Dr. Angie (21:33)
Nope, I won't let JoJo

see any of the comments, but feel free to leave them because it does really help the algorithm. Bye. Go spread some love. See you later.

JoJo Smith (21:41)
and go spread some love.