Behind the Exam Room Door: Mental Health & Burnout in Vet Medicine

Summary 

In this vulnerable Tails of Truth episode, Dr. Angie and JoJo open up about the mental health challenges in veterinary medicine and the hidden struggles of running a small, independent practice. They share raw stories of burnout, the relentless demands of caregiving, and the financial and emotional toll that few outside the profession truly see. Together, they unpack the pressures of balancing deep compassion for pets and their people with the harsh realities of small business ownership. They also offer practical ways pet parents can show kindness and support to veterinary professionals — simple gestures that can make a big difference in sustaining the humans behind the care. 

Key Takeaways

• Veterinary professionals are deeply compassionate — but compassion fatigue is real and often overlooked.
• Small practice ownership brings financial stress, constant pivots, and heavy administrative burdens.
• Many veterinarians feel forced to stretch themselves too thin to meet unrealistic client expectations.
• Veterinary nurses often work for wages lower than other service jobs, despite critical roles.
• A lack of boundaries and constant “on-call” demands can lead to burnout and breakdowns.
• Clients can support veterinary teams by respecting boundaries, paying for time, and shopping local.
• A simple thank you, card, or small act of appreciation can have a huge positive impact.
• Sustaining small vet practices requires community understanding — big-box retailers undercut them.
• Veterinary mental health must be part of the conversation for the sake of pets and people alike.

Sound Bites 

“It’s exhausting. And it’s more than just the medicine.” — Dr. Angie

“I trained people that I was always on.” — JoJo

“Veterinarians are just people. Nurses are just people. We have a breaking point too.” — Dr. Angie

“I promise you, many veterinary nurses make less than my kid at McDonald’s.” — JoJo

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and Setting the Stage
• 2:06 The Hidden Crisis
• 3:36 The Small Business Reality
• 5:02 All the Hats We Wear
• 9:32 Burnout & Staffing
• 12:19 The Challenge of Boundaries
• 14:15 Constant Pivots
• 19:11 Personal Breaking Points
• 20:57 Unrealistic Expectations
• 24:05 How Clients Can Support Their Veterinary Team
• 30:40 Closing Thoughts

Transcript

Dr. Angie (00:01)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie and this is my nurse JoJo. And today we are telling the truth about mental health in veterinary medicine. Hi JoJo.

JoJo (00:15)
Hey juicy topic, vulnerable topic.

Dr. Angie (00:17)
Juicy topic.

I know and it might be kind of sad sometimes but I want everyone that's listening to this that's not in veterinary medicine to understand that we are trying to help you understand what's happening and maybe you can help us. We need help.

JoJo (00:36)
help can just look like empathy and acknowledgement that this exists. I think yeah, it's a heavy one. We've kind of been in it. Well, first of all, we I've been in I've been in veterinary medicine almost my entire adult life. And I'm not young for those who cannot see me. I'm approaching 50. So I think I've been doing this like 24 years veterinary medicine. And I think where are you at? How many years in?

Dr. Angie (00:41)
Yes.

Yeah.

you

Yeah.

So I am 18 years past school. So, you know, then if you put four years of veterinary school and then any veterinary work I did before that, it's a large number. And yeah.

JoJo (01:11)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

large. Yeah. And you won't find

a lot of us in this age range. More veterinarians than veterinary nurses. So I wonder if what we have to share is even more exhaustive because of how many years we've been doing this.

Dr. Angie (01:25)
No.

That's true. That's true.

I think so. I, I think veterinary medicine is exhausting. And we think that, you know, when we go into vet school or veterinary nursing school that you think, I'm going to be able to help animals. And I want to spend my life serving animals and the people that love them. And while that's true, it's so much more complicated than that. And there are all these statistics.

JoJo (01:54)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (02:06)
about how often veterinary professionals into their own life. And I think that that's real and it's worth talking about. mean, I've definitely lost classmates that have died by suicide and there are a lot of resources out there to help veterinary professionals, but we don't talk about our mental health enough. And I don't think people understand why.

Maybe we're sad and anxious and depressed and overwhelmed.

JoJo (02:36)
Yeah, I would say that's fair. I mean, I think there's a subset of people I often hear, I could never do that job. You know, like on days that I come home or am sharing with friends, like, I lost a patient today that I really cared about. Like, I can get emotional just saying that, because, you know, the images of those pets or those people, because also often the people that I care about that moment, people are like, I could never do that. You know, so I think that.

Dr. Angie (02:53)
Totally.

Yeah.

JoJo (03:04)
that aspect people can maybe have some connection to being, huh? Yeah. Yeah. I would actually say it's one of the smallest slivers because honestly that part of my role is also one of the greatest gifts that I hold in this role, to be with those pets that pass or.

Dr. Angie (03:11)
I think that's right. And it's only a sliver of the pie as to why we're stressed. Smallest.

Mm-hmm.

JoJo (03:30)
be with those people at the end of their pet's life. Like that, as hard as it is, it's also one of the most beautiful parts.

Dr. Angie (03:36)
Absolutely.

Yes. Yeah, but there are a lot of other reasons and, well, let's just start naming them. So we were talking about this before we hit record. And one thing we were talking about was just what it means to be in small business. And most veterinarians are just small business owners and you know,

JoJo (03:40)
Ahem.

Dr. Angie (03:58)
So are we, this is a small business right now. It's just JoJo and I, we've definitely had other nurses, we've had other employees, virtual assistants, web developers, and we've definitely had ups and downs. And lately it's been a lot of downs. So it's like even outside of patient care, it's been heavy.

JoJo (04:20)
Right, because you're not trained as a business owner, right? But so many veterinarians, I mean, they should probably put some business training. Do they? Okay. No, and how could it? What you would have learned 20 years ago is not what business is today. So I don't know that that would have really been beneficial.

Dr. Angie (04:23)
now.

They do. They do give a sum. Yeah, but not like enough. They try.

No,

like just so everyone knows like JoJo and I are search engine optimization experts.

JoJo (04:50)
Because

we have self-taught ourselves. It has been, well there have been a lot of tears. know, tears that cried in small business. Doing the taxes. And you were like, oh you're so good at this. You should have been an accountant. I'm like, please don't ever ask me to do this again. She's never asked me to do it again.

Dr. Angie (05:02)
I'm only laughing out of no aid.

The taxes in this organization have been nothing but scandal. And there, and we're just talking about sales taxes and, even just sales taxes are enough to just put you over the edge. So aside from a practice, we also have an e-commerce business. And so trying to figure out how to do. Taxes sales taxes when you're selling in different States is a whole.

thing and sometimes the things we deal with are just too much for us.

JoJo (05:42)
in Colorado

put in a retail delivery fee that had to be implemented on every product that is delivered because you're also a house call vet. So we if we delivered it to a house in a car, we also had to tax that. then like six months later, after we implemented everything, they they are like, if you make under this amount of money, you no longer have to do it. So then we had to like take like those kind of things are so consuming and can just nitpick the little bits of sanity.

Dr. Angie (05:45)
⁓ yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

JoJo (06:14)
that you might come into the day with. And Angie, should just, like, beyond being SEO, Dr. Angie can talk to a web developer now with this web speak that is just like, I mean, I feel like I am in some other country when she starts talking. I have no idea sometimes what you're talking about.

Dr. Angie (06:14)
Net pick. Yes.

Yeah, because like over the years I've had to learn WordPress and WooCommerce and we've had a couple of situations to now where we had web developers that we really thought we trusted that did us dirty. And so it's been out of necessity where I'm like, okay, I have to learn this. on top of keeping up

with medicine and all the things we're doing, I'm now learning like, how do I advocate for my own business and my own website? And how can I learn how to do some of these things myself? Because we've definitely been put in situations where we didn't get the services we paid for, and then there was no more money. So we're like, well, I guess we'll do it now. And so there wasn't a budget to just bring someone else on. And so we've been scrappy or scrappy JoJo.

JoJo (07:17)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, we got some grit.

Dr. Angie (07:26)
And

it's exhausting. So we lost our web developer last year and have been dating new ones ever since or attempting to. And in the meantime, we're JoJo and I are working on how to get our website seen. How do people find our website? Because we can't necessarily run ads because we sell CBD.

JoJo (07:41)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (07:49)
And so we became experts in search engine optimization. So we're like speaking a different language. We're like listening to podcasts, reading, becoming experts, like trying to figure out what all these terms mean. And then in October, Google changed the algorithm. And so all, cause it's like over the months we started in the spring and then over the summer, we're like working really hard and like, yeah, we can do this and we're getting more traffic. We're getting more traffic. then overnight in October.

JoJo (08:04)
That was a sad moment.

Dr. Angie (08:19)
web traffic was down. It was like 60 % decrease.

JoJo (08:22)
⁓

it was, I mean, I've never seen our numbers look so low. And I mean, that's vulnerable to say, right? Like it's just, okay. I think in October, like, wow, we're hitting our, we're hitting our groove here. We're finding our people. We're, and that's a good place. Cause let me tell you, when we do e-commerce, I, at least when I, we're sending out these packages, I feel really connected to whoever's on the other side of it.

Dr. Angie (08:29)
Yeah.

doing this.

Yes.

JoJo (08:49)
There's something about it. And so that's the excitement for me. I'm like, there's another pet that's going to try this. There's another person who's going to try this and we're going to give them such great customer service. And that's where like the juice comes from. And then when it just the next month completely bottoms out to the lowest numbers I've seen since I've been here. It's like so demoralizing.

Dr. Angie (09:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

It's so demoralizing and yeah, it's been, it's been really, really rough. And then at the same time, I've been doing relief work in the Denver Boulder area and I'm having good success with that. And then all of a sudden in January, it just dried up. so I can't get shifts for every shift I'm bidding on. There's like 15 veterinarians. Like you have to get to the shift right when it pops up. And meanwhile,

JoJo (09:32)
Huh.

Dr. Angie (09:43)
everywhere else in the country needs more vets, more relief vets. And of course I'm practicing in the one area that's over saturated and it's just like,

JoJo (09:48)
Hmm.

Well,

I didn't even speak about that because you've had a very successful house call practice, but it's been very dependent on the nursing staff that you have. And there's been burnout just because of the nature of how, I think it's the nature of how much we care and not having great boundaries. Boundaries. Yeah.

Dr. Angie (10:00)
Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Well, we had several hundred people on a wait list

at one time for our services. And I just could not keep a nurse that I couldn't keep them happy and pay them enough and then have anywhere for them to go. And our last nurse was the one that just made me realize I'm like, I can't keep doing this because she wanted to be able to start a family.

as she should and she was like, do you have, you know, any benefits, any maternity, anything? And I'm like, I have nothing, like I can't at this size. Yeah. And so it's, it's rough and there's.

JoJo (10:45)
Yeah, can't offer you that. Yeah.

Well, from her

perspective too, like from a nurse perspective, this business is so small that we have access to all the numbers. We know what the profit margins are. I feel like the nurse has to be really business minded and that that usually typically doesn't go hand in hand because a nurses are more, I don't know.

Dr. Angie (11:04)
Yes.

JoJo (11:15)
nurturing and science-based and the business side doesn't always mesh.

Dr. Angie (11:23)
No, yes. You're thinking at all times like, okay, if you're scheduling a day in the house call practice, you have to be thinking, okay, we need to be making this much just to cover the cost of operating. So we need to see this many people. So what we really need to do is make sure that we're minimizing our drive time. And then the amount of moving pieces in a small practice like this, cause we don't have one person scheduling and then one person being a veterinary system and then one veterinary nurse.

You're all of it.

JoJo (11:54)
and the e-commerce person and the content writer and the, well now SEO optimizer and the, you know, like, and, and, and if there is a role, one of us is wearing that hat.

Dr. Angie (11:57)
Yeah.

Yes.

Totally. Yes.

JoJo (12:10)
And sometimes nobody's wearing that hat. let's just,

like, one needs to go very low on the list. But that makes it really challenging in terms of, I know, I'm gonna speak for both of us. Like, we wanna give A++ service. And when we can't do that, there's the moment that we're like, something has to change.

Dr. Angie (12:21)
Yes.

Yeah. And people demand a veterinarians. And this is one thing that I don't think people think about. So for you pet guardians out there, people think that they should have access to their veterinarians in a way they don't have access to their physicians. Now I don't disagree that you should be able to email your veterinarian. Fritz wants to come up on lab. Just do it. Just come up here. you should be able to,

Email your veterinarian and have these conversations, but at some point we have to get compensated for it because if every appointment has 10 follow-up emails, then we're spending hours in our email and then we're, not making any money so that we can't pay our staff. then, so it's, it gets to be a little tricky and people just expect to have more access to their veterinarians. And we really struggle with that because we.

were a very high touch practice. We wanted to be there for you. We wanted you to feel like you were important, like your animal was important to us because they were and are, but actually doing that in a profitable way is so hard.

JoJo (13:38)
So hard. I mean, I think we did it for a very short period of time where it was profitable, but I think that's also the vulnerable space. I don't know what it's like to be you. I say this often. So like when I'm seeing the numbers in a certain place, I'm like, okay, like, but it could be vulnerable and like, no, is there space for me or like, but I think you and I have always had a really open dialogue about.

Dr. Angie (13:59)
Right.

JoJo (14:04)
those things and just like, do we need to do? So when November and December happened and those numbers tanked, it's like, okay, and she's gonna take some relief work. What are we gonna, how are we gonna pivot? And I think it's that constant pivot that is exhausting of the small business.

Dr. Angie (14:15)
Yep.

Yes.

Yeah. And I think we feel beat up, you know, on March 5th, 2025 as a small business, because we, you and I, we did the pandemic. pivoted. We, yeah, we have stories. We pivoted in the pandemic and then the town burned down. We pivoted in that.

JoJo (14:34)
Which was funny, that's got great stories.

Well when you

say the town burned down, let's just, most of us don't know this, Dr. Andy's town actually burned down, like in a fire. She lost a home, like it happened.

Dr. Angie (14:49)
Burn down, like literally burned down.

Yeah, like it burned. And then, so we pivoted when that happened and then, you you just keep pivoting and then we had some staff changing and then we're, you know, we're constantly pivoting and then we lose our web developer. And then, you know, we have some other stuff happening and then we come in and this change of administration has just.

I feel like there's always a boot on my neck right now because every time a new tariff is announced, some people are like, my gosh, avocados are going to be more expensive. But all I can think of is like, MWI and Patterson, they're going to send out an email next week telling us that, you know,

JoJo (15:33)
Well, some

didn't even send it out. Like one medication that we order, I don't even know if I should name it. I'll just, the one medication that we order, just like all of a I'm like, how is it this much more? Like are we just, so I had to contact them and like, oh yeah, we just raise the prices and add shipping fees on. And I'm just like, oh, awesome. But then the big email that came through, like I presented you with a list of like, here's what we're paying for things now. Here's what it's increasing to.

Dr. Angie (15:36)
They did.

I know it's shocking.

Yeah!

JoJo (16:00)
I mean, we must have gone through like 35 regular items that we sell. And you chose, we had this discussion of like, everybody, we know everybody is struggling financially too, with all of the cost increases. And that is where that gets so tricky of how do we stay in business and how do we honor like the greater good?

Dr. Angie (16:07)
right.

JoJo (16:28)
You know, like, what is the thing?

Dr. Angie (16:29)
No, yeah.

Stresses me out because I, I'm in business because this is what I love to do. And I really want to be able to take care of everybody and I still have to pay my own bills. And so this year, because we didn't raise a lot of our prices last year, we absorbed last year. And so we decided we're absorbing again this year and we've just asked people that are doing business with us to help us grow the business.

JoJo (16:42)
Mm-hmm.

We didn't.

Dr. Angie (16:57)
Because at some point we have to like put our arms around each other and try to get through this together. And I know not every business can do that. And I, I don't even know that we can do it when we send out these like, Hey, will you share this with a friend? Will you leave us a review? I don't even know if people are going to do it. I don't know.

JoJo (17:07)
Mm-hmm.

Well, and we're doing

that not because we want to be liked. We're doing that because we want to feed our kids. I mean, honestly, comes down to like, well, we also know we have a great product, but it's just stressful. So stress impacts mental health. And so many veterinarians are business owners.

Dr. Angie (17:29)
Yeah.

stressed, we're stressed.

Right? And so, yeah, so when Trump does these tariff wars, you know, it's more, your pet's care is being affected, everything that they can order, like, this is going to affect all of our, literally everything we buy.

JoJo (17:38)
that are feeling it, yeah.

Yeah, well was

thinking like the Chinese herbs that we get. Some come from Canada, some come from, yeah.

Dr. Angie (17:55)
Canadian.

Yeah. All of our Chinese herbs are Canadian. I'm just like, and they're already expensive because they're organic. And I'm just like, we don't need them to be.

JoJo (18:03)
Yeah.

And we were able to ship to Canada at a point in time and I was just reading about how that's changing too. And I'm like, we wouldn't even be able to expand in that way. Yeah.

Dr. Angie (18:16)
I just thought about that. Yeah, I thought about that yesterday.

so, you know, and then when this administration's been really messing with the FDA, USDA, CDC, that's stressing your veterinarian out.

JoJo (18:28)
Well, because

we don't have the answers that you that we know the questions you're asking about bird flu and you know, I don't know, there was just something else recently that in our area, there's like raccoon distemper is like an abundance right now. And I'm like, where do we where do I find the data? Okay, I'm already like getting all worked up. There is more.

Dr. Angie (18:40)
You're right.

Right. I know. I know. And wait, there's more.

JoJo (18:52)
And I wanna say that we love, I love what we do. And I love the house call practice, but we just kept redlining it. No matter how hard we tried to stack and I mean, I think when you and I did it, we were efficient.

Dr. Angie (19:02)
my gosh, when it

We are so efficient. Yeah.

JoJo (19:11)
but also it

broke me, like I could never set my phone down, like always on.

Dr. Angie (19:16)
Like JoJo literally broke one day in June of 2023. Yeah. Yeah. I remember the moment that you broke

JoJo (19:18)
I did. I'm glad you know when it is. I don't even know like timelines. Yeah.

Yeah, don't know, because I was still in my broken. So, so I did. Yeah, no, I mean, because that also because we also have lives and people in our lives. And, you know, I'm a mom of four boys and two of them with special needs. And my youngest was having severe mental health crisis where we didn't know who's going to survive that. And it broke me.

Dr. Angie (19:29)
Yeah, you were like, I don't know. You're like, I'm still around, just broken.

Yeah.

Yeah.

JoJo (19:51)
at some point I'm like I don't know how to keep putting one foot in front of the other. I just don't.

Dr. Angie (19:56)
I know. I know. I've since been through a divorce, nasty custody battles. you know, it's just, yeah. Dated some real losers, JoJo. I know. I know. It defects your mental health. Stay single. Stay single.

JoJo (20:06)
Yeah.

I know.

Yep. And there's only so much like good music

that can get you through the day. Like, I can't even remember the hype song. You had some hype song for me sometimes and I'm just like, oh yeah, no longer caring me. I don't know.

Dr. Angie (20:32)
I know. Well, two

weeks ago you were sending me Dochi and you're like, you should listen to this. it, I know. And now I love her, but you're right. Like there's only so much you can do. And what I love about this conversation is I want everyone to note that we haven't even actually talked about the practice of medicine. We haven't talked about how many people have.

JoJo (20:36)
I'm like, how have you not heard of Doechi She's just amazing.

Dr. Angie (20:57)
unrealistic expectations of veterinarians. How many people are charged, they're in some of their worst moments of their life, scariest moments of their life, and we're suddenly responsible for it. And it is, it's hard. We, we suffer a lot of abuse.

JoJo (21:05)
Mm-hmm.

I think the hardest, the hardest ones, don't know, tell me if I'm wrong, but you don't seem as impacted as I often feel about this. I move through different places of it, but I hate the feeling I have when we get the emails or the calls that you clearly don't care about saving animals or helping people because of the price you charge. And now I have like a response to that, but I still feel so defensive around that.

Dr. Angie (21:42)
Yeah.

JoJo (21:43)
Those make me so upset.

Dr. Angie (21:46)
It's so upsetting, right? Because somehow we don't deserve to make money to live, to buy, you know, basic necessities or anything. And yeah, I know it's really, it's really difficult and it does bother me. I, it bothers me less, but sometimes it really gets under my skin, especially if it's a client we've been working with. Like I know recently.

We won't name anybody, but someone was like, well, your expenses can't be that high. And I just think, well, you don't know what my expenses. Yeah. It's like, ⁓ what do

JoJo (22:19)
You have no overhead. I was like, ⁓ that's not true. Just because

we don't have a brick and mortar.

Dr. Angie (22:28)
Right. We have a lot of overhead. so I think, yeah, it's, it's frustrating. And I know people are saying that because they're feeling scared and they're feeling helpless, but veterinarians are just people. Veterinary nurses are just people. And we have our breaking point at some point where you're just like, I don't want to do this anymore. And I've, I felt like that so many times in my 18 years of practice where you just get burnt out and you

JoJo (22:55)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie (22:56)
You care so much that you just can't even care anymore.

JoJo (23:00)
It's that, it's that you care so much. That's true. That's what kept me from setting my phone down in the evening, like responding to clients in the evening. And I realized that, this is not the right word. I trained people that that was okay because I didn't have good boundaries, but it was so hard to come back from that because now the expectation is you're always on for me.

Dr. Angie (23:04)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yep.

Right. And we want to be there for people in their time of need, but gosh, it's, it's too much because we're struggling and we're trying to keep up and we're just human.

JoJo (23:41)
really do care. The truth is we do. And so my my new response to that is Dr. Angie puts out a lot of free content. You know, it's the I mean, you can catch her on Instagram doing live q &a, like you can come with your questions and she's going to be answering them.

Dr. Angie (23:41)
You really do care.

JoJo (23:59)
And to me that feels like a lot of pressure. I'm always amazed that you could just be like, yeah, I'll answer these questions. I'm like, real time? OK. There's blogs. There's, you know, I don't know. There's just, there's a lot that's already out there that, and when I say free, it's actually costing you, right? Like, yeah, like, right.

Dr. Angie (24:05)
I guess.

Yeah.

Yeah, it is, it's not free for me to produce that content, but

it's free for them to consume it.

JoJo (24:23)
Right, and so if you charge $250 for a one-on-one consult, that's to keep our heads above water. Like there has to be, there has to be fees for some things.

Dr. Angie (24:32)
Yeah.

right. Because we collect those records ahead of time. You read those records to make sure you have everything. And then before the consult, I also read those records in their entirety. you know, so there is a lot that's happening that people don't, people don't realize. So I guess, for people that are watching, what would you say they can do to support the veterinary staff for their pets?

JoJo (24:45)
Yeah.

Just plain and simple kindness. Start there. think that your veterinary nurse is not making much money at all. I promise you. And when I say not much money at all, there are veterinary nurses making less than my kid makes at McDonald's. Like this is the truth. And most of them have second jobs. So just start with kindness. Nobody's out there trying to pillage.

Dr. Angie (25:15)
Yes.

JoJo (25:23)
and make money off your sick pet. I mean if there is, they're so far between. That would be my first want and ask.

Dr. Angie (25:26)
No.

Yeah. I'm going to second that.

JoJo (25:35)
And if your veterinarian has

a boundary, it's not because they don't want to care for your pet. It's because they have limitations in their energetic resources. That's just, they need time. Yeah.

Dr. Angie (25:49)
I think what people could do is start saying things like adding this to their vocabulary. I have some more questions for Dr. Whoever. I'm happy to pay for some of their time. Like that has, and you're like, yes. Okay, great. It's not that we are trying to monetize literally everything, but I know I can give that time. I can give my best. can set that side of time. It's set that,

JoJo (26:02)
I love when those come through.

Yeah.

Dr. Angie (26:18)
time aside and just really be with them. And so whether they're in a clinic or whether it's me, when you're just getting some more, consultation time, that's amazing. And it makes us feel so respected and the boundaries of that are great. And so I feel like that's always music to our ears. We're like, okay, great. And then if you can't pay for that time, send your question and I'll answer it for free on Instagram.

JoJo (26:29)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (26:46)
And so there are ways in which you don't have to pay for my time, but when people do. So offer to pay for your veterinarian's time, even if they don't take you up on it, goes, it goes a long ways. Yes.

JoJo (26:47)
Yeah.

Or can I add one more to that?

If you can and if you're able, it's so beneficial. If your veterinarian has an online pharmacy or they sell product out of their shop or an e-commerce shop and you can shop that instead of Chewy or the really big companies that can honestly, Chewy can, they can undersell us in terms of they can sell things for cheaper than we can buy them.

Dr. Angie (27:25)
my gosh, yes.

JoJo (27:26)
And it's

like, it's just destroying small business. And I know that Chewy's good for some great things and I will not say that I've never, but if there is something that you can get from your veterinary practice, that every little bit really helps.

Dr. Angie (27:41)
It really does. And when your veterinary staff have to call something into another pharmacy and if they charge you for it, don't complain because they literally sat on hold for 45 minutes to make that prescription happen and to make sure it's correct for your pet. Cause we often don't leave messages because maybe the instructions aren't right for a pet or maybe they don't have the formulation. So

JoJo (27:53)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (28:06)
understand that every time you ask them to call in and sometimes they will. But when you ask them to do that, that takes up a lot of their time or even when we have to put it in the computer and print off the directions instead of dispensing it from the pharmacy. It's just time that we're spending that we're not getting compensated for. So just being mindful of that.

JoJo (28:27)
Yeah, those are

so like when I have spent so much time calling something in and then somebody and I will call it give that prescription to the person and they'll be like, Oh, I just found this $5 cheaper on Chewy. Like we don't get any kickbacks from Chewy at all. So all of that money is just lost. So the more you can invest in your your personal veterinarian's practice, I think it's really beneficial.

Dr. Angie (28:47)
Right.

Yep. Supporting small business and Chewy is great. Like we have nothing against Chewy.

JoJo (28:57)
Mm hmm. Yeah, that

was not a slam against Chewy. just it does make it more challenging for us.

Dr. Angie (29:01)
No.

Absolutely. Yes.

Okay. Also baked goods, cards, words of affirmation are always right. Like I sometimes I'm fueled by people saying, my gosh, this was so helpful. Thank you. That feels so good to know like, okay, I'm actually helping because sometimes at the end of the day as a veterinarian in private practice, you're like, did I do anything good today? Because some days you just see

JoJo (29:12)
Hahaha

Dr. Angie (29:32)
death and destruction all day long, or maybe you couldn't help. And so there's a lot of helplessness in ourselves as veterinarians and veterinary staff. So if you can just tell your veterinarian, thanks so much. This was actually really good. You can help their mental health a lot.

JoJo (29:46)
That goes such a long

way. And do you remember the house we showed up to who had flowers for both of us?

Dr. Angie (29:53)
Yes! ⁓

JoJo (29:54)
I was just like,

do you still have like?

Dr. Angie (29:58)
Well, I have, it's off here and first it's on my lap. So it's against the law for me to move, but I have it like a shawl that one of our clients and I keep it. I always have it right next to me and the cats have probably carried it off, but like sometimes when I'm sitting at my desk, I put it on to just feel like, I helped this person and they made this for me.

JoJo (30:05)
yeah?

Yeah.

Yeah, did, I don't know what you call it, crochet, is it crochet? What is it, knitting? She knit. She knit one for each of us. And I was just like, wow. That felt really good, yeah.

Dr. Angie (30:23)
Yeah.

I know. it, yeah, it was very impactful. I keep

it down here all the time. So do stuff for like, for your veterinarian.

JoJo (30:36)
Yeah, I don't think we talked

about like 80 % of the things that we talked about before we pressed record. So maybe there's a part two to this, but this was good. I liked it.

Dr. Angie (30:40)
I know.

Yeah. Okay. We would love to hear from you. What are your thoughts on veterinary burnout, mental health, and veterinary medicine, or maybe you're just a small business owner too that's also struggling. So we'd love to hear from you. Leave a comment or let us know what you would like to hear about next. We'll see you next time. Bye.

JoJo (31:03)
time. Bye!