Tails of Truth: The Truth about Veterinary Medicine

What We Love & Hate in Practice: Our Veterinary Confessions

• Dr. Angie Krause, DVM CVA CCRT • Episode 15

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✏️ Episode Summary

In this laid-back, laughter-filled episode of Tails of Truth, Dr. Angie and veterinary nurse, JoJo, let you eavesdrop on one of their most candid chats yet — the real talk about what they love and what secretly grosses them out in vet medicine. From eyeball stories to the oddly satisfying world of pus (yes, really!), they spill the truth about daily icks, unexpected joys, and the moments that test their boundaries. It’s the kind of unfiltered back-and-forth that reminds you vet life is as much about people as it is about pets — and a lot about staying real. Grab your tea and laugh along as they prove it’s possible to take your work seriously without taking yourself too seriously. 

✅ Key Takeaways

  • Every Yuck has a Yum: Even the “ickiest” parts of vet work (like pus and anal glands) can be weirdly satisfying for the right person.
  • Some tasks cross the line: Everyone has a boundary — for JoJo, it’s anythig eyeballs; for Dr. Angie, it’s removing them.
  • Client honesty matters: When pet parents come prepared (or over-prepared thanks to Google), it can actually help — not hurt — the appointment.
  • Communication beats perfection: It’s frustrating when you can’t find answers, but explaining why tests matter is part of good vet care.
  • Vet care is never just clinical: The relationships can be a huge "yum”
  • Balance over extremes: There’s room for holistic care and Western medicine — the goal is to choose what actually helps the animal.
  • Sometimes you bend the rules: Even holistic-minded folks will reach for the heavy-duty preventatives when bugs invade.
  • Consent & kindness matter: Using negative tools like shock collars is a hard yuck; building trust and respecting animals’ signals is a yum.

🔊 Sound Bites

“The very first yuck I can think of are eyeballs. I don't like anything to do with eyeballs. Like, none of it.” — JoJo

“Men that love their cats. So great. — Dr. Angie

“Don't yuck my yum.” — JoJo

“Never will I ever. No, I cannot have bugs. I cannot do it.” — JoJo

“Give me your vomiting cat and itchy dog and I'm gonna make it better.” — Dr. Angie

“Don't do tests that aren't going to change your plan.” — Dr. Angie

“Electric collars are a yuck.” — JoJo


Please subscribe and review! xoxo Dr. Angie & JoJo


Dr. Angie (00:01.104)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth podcast. I'm Dr. Angie, and this is my veterinary nurse JoJo. And this is where we talk about things truthfully in veterinary medicine. And today we're doing something kind of casual and relaxed, and it's just for fun. We are sharing our yucks, like our icks, and our yums in veterinary medicine. And we...

have not talked about this previously. So what you are experiencing is just us. So JoJo, let's start with you. Let's start with your, the first yuck you can think of as a veterinary nurse. Yeah.

JoJo Smith (00:36.43)
Put me on the spot

JoJo Smith (00:41.4)
The very first yuck I can think of are eyeballs. I don't like anything to do with eyeballs. Like, none of it. None of it.

Dr. Angie (00:50.366)
Fair. Mm-hmm. Okay. Like, you don't want to take them out?

JoJo Smith (00:55.256)
Do you? taking them out is just awful. But even just the pressure test. there's just, yeah. I do not enjoy eyeballs.

Dr. Angie (01:00.026)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (01:04.03)
What about a fluorescein diet test?

Dr. Angie (01:09.553)
Okay, no eyeballs for you.

JoJo Smith (01:11.406)
I know eyeballs. Do you like eyeballs?

Dr. Angie (01:13.754)
okay. The only thing I don't want to do ever again is another removal of an eyeball. That's rough for me. That is a boundary I have. And in my current situation, I don't have to do that. So that's great that I am not required, to do an in enucleation but yeah, I don't like it. I don't mind seeing ophthalmology cases, although

After almost 18 years, I do wonder when I'm going to feel good at ophthalmology. Like it still feels like this thing that I'm constantly just, I just take pictures and email the ophthalmologist and I wonder.

JoJo Smith (01:44.91)
Hmm.

JoJo Smith (01:54.338)
I don't even like imaging of eyeballs. No, like I just get a little bit, a little bit of turning sideways in my stomach. Yeah. yum. Okay, pus. Anything with pus. Like, please let me, please let me have it. Like I would fight for it.

Dr. Angie (01:56.931)
you don't?

Dr. Angie (02:05.31)
Well, what's a yum you have?

Dr. Angie (02:16.712)
Like an abscess, like a pimple.

JoJo Smith (02:23.084)
You know, and then like the universe blessed me with four teenage boys, like four boys. So like just teenage years with Puss. It's just, Yeah. I don't know. yeah, for sure. So for sure. Like so much so that Adam, my husband, when you bought me one of those pimple popper, like it looks like skin and you push it and Puss comes out.

Dr. Angie (02:35.806)
So you're always one to pop the pimple. Okay.

JoJo Smith (02:53.582)
So it's a thing. But yeah, if anything with pus, I would like to be the one to do it.

Dr. Angie (02:59.418)
Okay, so you're always in when you're in clinic on like into the abscesses into the infections.

JoJo Smith (03:06.327)
let me pick it. Let me pop it. Let me squeeze it. Let me have it. Yes. Yeah. Have. Is it is it a yum for you? Do you like it?

Dr. Angie (03:08.318)
Yeah. Totally. I like it. I think that's a really common yum amongst veterinary professionals.

I mean, okay, I like the satisfaction of like getting it out. So like draining an abscess. I think sometimes when it gets too big and it smells, it then doesn't become worth it. So I mean, usually infection stinks, you know?

JoJo Smith (03:26.658)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo Smith (03:34.424)
Yeah, smell is different. Kinda...

Yeah, and my nose is my superpower so that's where it gets me in a funk sometimes. What is your first yuck that comes to mind?

Dr. Angie (03:48.338)
can say that. Yeah.

Dr. Angie (03:53.842)
My first yuck and veterinarian. Okay. As a veterinarian, one of the things I don't like is when I have frustrated my client because like they, maybe they bring their dog or cat in and I don't know what's wrong, but they're really sick and I'll spend, you know, easily $500 right away doing diagnostics, maybe even more x-rays.

And then I come back into the room and I'm like, blood work looks normal. Imaging is normal. I'm not sure. And I, I hate the feeling it's that most helpless feeling because then I think they look at me and think, my God, you're useless. What did I pay you to do? And as mean as a clinician, I know that I'm not. It's hard to give them like, you know, explain to them and convince them that what we did was valuable. Cause like I can come in and say,

JoJo Smith (04:40.526)
you

Dr. Angie (04:54.982)
I know your pet's kidneys are working their livers functioning. I know that they have enough white cells and red cells. know they don't have pancreatitis. Like I can know all of these things, but I hate the way they look at me or just that feeling. some, mean, they're very rude ones will say like how, you know, can I have my money back or you didn't even find anything, or I guess I'll have to go to another veterinarian. but I think that's my worst, my worst feeling.

JoJo Smith (04:58.318)
All right.

JoJo Smith (05:15.896)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo Smith (05:23.692)
Mmm.

Dr. Angie (05:24.67)
It's the grossest.

JoJo Smith (05:27.528)
That's interesting. You went relational and I went all physical. Yeah. And you're like, no, the relationship part is hard of it. On the flip side of that, bet you have a yum relationally.

Dr. Angie (05:32.23)
Yeah, you were like, let's get into the medicine. Let's get into the medicine. Yeah.

Dr. Angie (05:39.567)
Yes, okay.

Dr. Angie (05:43.33)
my yum, relationally. Yes. I mean, men that love their cats. So great. and then gay men in general, the gays working for the gays is the best. They love, they love their pets. they're very reasonable. They're great communicators. They can handle their emotions. Like it's okay to have emotions. Like they're.

JoJo Smith (05:57.453)
Hm.

Dr. Angie (06:11.816)
When I walk into an exam room and I get to work for a gay man and it's just the best. My favorite.

JoJo Smith (06:20.11)
There you go.

Dr. Angie (06:22.578)
Love the gays.

JoJo Smith (06:24.846)
yeah, I feel like when I think about my yucks and my yums, they're all tangible, tangible yucks and yums. I wasn't actually thinking on the relational field, which they do exist. I like yum, I love people who've done their research before they come in, even if it's made them go so sideways, because I often learn something.

Dr. Angie (06:34.238)
Mmm.

Dr. Angie (06:43.027)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie (06:50.386)
Yeah.

Yeah.

JoJo Smith (06:54.54)
And I just feel it makes appointments go smoother a lot of times because they're coming in with some, I bet you that's a lot of people's yuck, but I think it's fantastic when people have advocated for themselves.

Dr. Angie (07:07.602)
yeah. think it's overall in veterinary medicine. Veterinarians are like, don't Google. And I'm like, no, please Google. Like who's not Googling. That's so ridiculous to ask people to not Google. I know it would. And the thing is just like, you're going to pop that pimple. You're going to Google. And so we should support people in their Googling and

JoJo Smith (07:13.973)
Yeah.

If I didn't Google my anxiety would be worse. Yeah, it would be so much.

JoJo Smith (07:28.174)
pulling away.

JoJo Smith (07:31.918)
Well, it also can make us heroes because they're coming in with my cat's dying from this. And we're like, oh no, that's not, Google's wrong. We can take care of this. But back to your diagnostics, like that's an important piece, spending $500. Like the way I like to explain it to our clients is like, it's so important. Doing the rule outs is just as important as the rule ins. Like we have to take these steps to just narrow what it is.

Dr. Angie (07:38.546)
That's true. This is going to be fine. Yes.

Dr. Angie (07:53.981)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie (07:59.548)
I know.

But from their perspective, they're in the same position. Like I'm not as a clinician, but they're in the same position. And so like, I told them they're just poorer with a sick animal. And then we're like, and we need more money because now we need to do X, and Z, or we need to hospitalize or. So I get it.

JoJo Smith (08:10.11)
Right, just poor

JoJo Smith (08:18.934)
Right. But you're really good about this. You're really good about prioritizing what diagnostic and what diagnostic we can maybe just bypass. Or trial treating. That's what we're doing with my dog right now. Like sometimes trial treating.

Dr. Angie (08:30.462)
Totally.

Dr. Angie (08:35.736)
I want to thank Dr. Mike Willard at Texas A&M University for giving me the ability to understand why I'm doing what I'm doing. And he was definitely, he was my internal medicine for cats and dogs professor. And he said, you should never run a test if you're not going to change what you're doing because of the results. And so.

JoJo Smith (09:02.595)
I love that.

Dr. Angie (09:03.932)
That's how I learned how to do diagnostics. And I'm not knocking other veterinary schools or other veterinarians that didn't learn from Mike Willard, but I can tell that there are a lot of veterinarians out there just doing stuff. And it's not wrong. It's just not very focused. And so we can think.

JoJo Smith (09:18.446)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo Smith (09:22.83)
Like it's the order of operations. This is, we do this and we do this and we do this, but no, is that what you're talking about?

Dr. Angie (09:29.678)
Yeah, like he had such a practicality of like, don't do tests that aren't going to change your plan. And it makes you think more critically as a clinician. So if I run this test, I get this piece of information, but does it change my treatment plan? And that's the important like, yes, as clinicians, we all want all the information, but we have to think about what we're what we're doing with that information.

JoJo Smith (09:40.44)
Mm.

JoJo Smith (09:46.072)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (09:55.358)
And I think clients really appreciate that too, because I can tell them like, listen, we can do that test, you know, cause I'll Google and they'll be like, I hear this test. I'm like, well, yeah, we can do it, but it's not going to change anything. The information's not going to change what we do. We're going to do this anyways. And I think about that often, like yesterday I saw, um, a Dachshund that had some pain in the hind end. And I was like, you know, most clinicians would take an X-ray and I'm like, I'm not going to take an X-ray. has kind of like some arthritic pain.

JoJo Smith (10:02.584)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo Smith (10:10.455)
Right?

Dr. Angie (10:24.196)
nothing really severe. didn't think anything was broken and there wasn't any like severe limp or any gait abnormality. And I'm not going to just take an X-ray and spend $250 and make that dog really upset, maybe sedate the dog. And because at the end of the day, the treatments for arthritis stand and you know, whether or not I can show evidence on this X-ray. so I think it's important.

JoJo Smith (10:24.206)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo Smith (10:51.468)
Mm-hmm.

That's good. Which just made me, like this triggered one for me that's a yuck was when they don't do full mouth radiographs, it's yuck, right? Like always do it. The dog is sedated, the cat is sedated, just do it. So much we don't see if we don't do it.

Dr. Angie (11:03.926)
yuck. Yuck, yuck, yuck.

Dr. Angie (11:13.768)
Just do it. Yeah.

Dr. Angie (11:18.908)
I know. I mean, I could definitely think there could be some times where full mouth x-rays aren't warranted. Like if you just did them like three months ago, but just like we do at our dentist, you have full mouth rads every year.

JoJo Smith (11:31.566)
I think every six months I think, no? I don't know, maybe that's just mine. Good for you. A so does is one of my kids, loves it. I hate it, I hate the dentist. Speaking of yum, I know it's your yum to scrape teeth.

Dr. Angie (11:33.7)
Is that every six months? I go to the dentist four times a year. So it's just sometimes. Yeah. I love having my teeth cleaned so much. It's the best.

Yeah. Mm. I love all the sounds.

Dr. Angie (11:52.158)
Okay. So when I was in like practicing like full time in a practice, I was the dentistry veterinarian. love dentistry. I love oral surgery so much. And so now in this like kind of house call or whatever I'm doing at the moment, you know, being doing relief, like I love taking my fingernail and especially in cats. wonder if I have a model cats on their premolar.

love just knocking it off. And I feel like more veterinarians should do that because it's so satisfied and you're like instantly I'm like, look, I can see your cat's tooth now. You're welcome. So it comes off in a sheet. It's so satisfying.

JoJo Smith (12:31.98)
Yeah. and it comes off in like a sheet.

Yeah, it is really satisfying. Yep. that's too bad. Sorry, they don't just love it.

Dr. Angie (12:40.626)
I do it to my own cats. They hate it. they hate it so much. They know. And it's like, I'm not doing anything for them. Like it's not treating anything, but it's helping me see the tooth. And I have to imagine that's got to feel better. It is aesthetically pleasing. Yes.

JoJo Smith (12:57.483)
It's aesthetically pleasing.

JoJo Smith (13:02.53)
kind of like those no anesthesia clinics for, I mean, it's really just cleaning, like surface cleaning.

Dr. Angie (13:06.12)
Yes.

Dr. Angie (13:11.622)
Yeah, it's not getting under the gum. And I get why people do it. And I do think it could have some benefit, but you can't do it instead of anesthetic cleanings. Like it does help reduce...

JoJo Smith (13:22.466)
Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's being sold as kind of instead of, or at least people are buying that story. So yuck.

Dr. Angie (13:31.386)
Yuck. Yuck to that.

JoJo Smith (13:35.15)
here's one where I sell out on integrity, you ready? Okay, I totally and I'm okay with it. So you really love Frontline as a topical, it works in Colorado for fleas and such. Never will I ever know, I cannot have bugs. I cannot do it. I cannot have fleas, I cannot have lice, I cannot.

Dr. Angie (13:41.278)
Ooh, sell out. Okay, let's sell out. Okay.

Okay.

Dr. Angie (13:53.755)
I don't know that I love it, but anyways, go ahead. Okay.

Dr. Angie (14:01.086)
No.

JoJo Smith (14:04.894)
I will give them the most toxic stuff. And maybe that's because I've not seen any neurological side effects in my pets. And I would change my tune. But God, you have bugs in your house, I can't, I, no, can't. I will sell out on my integrity every time.

Dr. Angie (14:19.55)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie (14:24.68)
So, okay, so bugs are a yuck for you. And as a result, you think you're selling out. my Fritz is going to join us. You think you're selling out by using this newer generation like for Bravecto Nexgard card. I think, don't know if it's a sellout. We might have to revisit this.

JoJo Smith (14:27.431)
Ugh.

JoJo Smith (14:30.945)
Yes.

JoJo Smith (14:38.248)
Totally. Well, like not selling out, compromising, compromising because when I say integrity, I like to be as clean as possible, clean minded and ingredient decks as possible. And we live most of our life, the rest of our lives that way. But I will like you tell me it's like, yeah, they can have seizures and I'm like, great. Let's just.

Dr. Angie (14:54.888)
shirt.

Dr. Angie (14:58.761)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (15:06.087)
Hahaha

JoJo Smith (15:07.086)
They're still getting, they're still gonna get the monthly, the pill. That's because we had lice, we had, oh, so gross, so gross, so gross. And you know, just when I, every time it came in practice, the ones that are flea infested are the one, I just, ugh, it's so bad.

Dr. Angie (15:12.604)
Right, well, I mean, I remember the lice.

Dr. Angie (15:19.964)
Yeah, that was disgusting.

Dr. Angie (15:30.686)
Well, give you full permission to use that class of drugs. And you're right. Like I honestly, if it's not causing seizures, I'm going to get so much hate in the comments for this because everyone expects me to have a different, a different viewpoint. But I think if it's protecting you from a yuck and your dog's not having neurological side effects, I think, I think it's okay. You have my blessing. You have my blessing. it.

JoJo Smith (15:44.867)
Yeah.

JoJo Smith (15:56.522)
I would have done the same thing with my kids. Like somehow we got through life without ever having head lice. When everybody around us was getting head lice and I'm like, I don't care what kind of poison we would need. Like, I'll drink it. Give me a straw. Like I can't, I can't do it.

Dr. Angie (16:06.546)
Ha ha

Dr. Angie (16:12.646)
Yeah, I think that's reasonable. That is...

JoJo Smith (16:19.606)
And I had seen that in our practice too, people who have been very not like just not wanting to use any chemical products and then having the experience of having some kind of critter in their home and it's just like never again.

Dr. Angie (16:28.391)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie (16:36.732)
Yeah, I mean, it's so relatable, because who wants to live with that?

JoJo Smith (16:40.802)
You don't, it's a nightmare. Just from a practicality standpoint, it's a nightmare. From an ick standpoint, it's.

Dr. Angie (16:43.355)
nightmare.

Dr. Angie (16:50.726)
It is awful. It is awful. And I'm glad we have things that can, you know, stop you from living with lice on your dog.

JoJo Smith (16:58.734)
and ticks just like a single tick is too much for me they're so gross ugh I like living in the northeast could you live in the northeast

Dr. Angie (17:04.328)
Ticks are so disgusting. I don't understand their purpose. Yeah, absolutely. Well, what's another yum? No, just because of the ticks solely because of the ticks and their mountains are small, but.

JoJo Smith (17:16.034)
The tics! Ugh. Yeah. Yeah. Ugh.

Dr. Angie (17:21.31)
Okay, give me a yum, because you got a yuck.

JoJo Smith (17:26.6)
any dog or cat that comes in with a bow tie or a sweater.

Dr. Angie (17:31.17)
the clothes on these pets are getting so good. The vests, they're getting good. Like, especially like I'm telling you, let's go. The puppies. Well, what's really buttoned up is when the gay men come in and they're buttoned up because of course, and then their dogs are buttoned up. And I'm just like, how can I be you? How can I, can you come?

JoJo Smith (17:38.121)
So cute!

The puffy, the little puffers.

Dr. Angie (17:59.134)
Style me. how, how do we do this? Yeah, the clothing is good.

JoJo Smith (18:02.162)
yeah, it's just, I don't care if your dog wants to bite me. It's still cute.

Dr. Angie (18:07.614)
Totally true.

JoJo Smith (18:09.432)
like chihuahuas in a sweater. Cute.

Dr. Angie (18:13.17)
They are cute. think all, all dogs look better in sweaters and vests.

JoJo Smith (18:14.552)
Yeah.

JoJo Smith (18:18.714)
so true and little paw things the little paw boots they have crocs now for dogs okay but i'm not i mean that's probably a yuck for me i don't like crocs on humans i never understood how they yeah i'm not sure that crocs are the way to go but like little suede footies yeah so cute okay your turn your turn

Dr. Angie (18:22.514)
boots. Yeah. my gosh, do they really?

Dr. Angie (18:29.566)
You're like, they're still gross on dogs.

Dr. Angie (18:37.779)
Yeah.

Totally nice. Okay. Okay. Here's a yuck that I have that, and this is such a common one. So I know everyone's going to be expecting it, but when people send their significant others slash parents slash anybody else in with their pet to the veterinarian and they don't know anything that I need to know. So I can't.

There's no information transfer. can't get the information I need and it feels a little helpless. And I also get irritated, especially, and this is like very stereotype, hate me in the comments, please do it. that when, you know, men in heterosexual life partners, you know, whether they're married or just living together,

They'll come in because maybe they had off or I don't know why they're coming in, but they do. And then they don't know anything. And I just think fellas, just take an interest. What does your pet eat? What kind of food is it? Where do they get it? What kind of medication is your pet on? Like just know it. Just know it.

JoJo Smith (19:58.68)
Yeah, okay.

Dr. Angie (19:59.134)
Clean up the vomit so you know how many times or like wake up in the middle of the night to take your dog out. And it's not all of course, hashtag not all men, but it's a lot and it's enough that veterinarians are like, so and so sent her husband in and everybody in the clinic knows why we're like.

JoJo Smith (20:02.136)
you

JoJo Smith (20:20.046)
Well, that's why we take both numbers. I don't know how many times we've been in appointments and we have to call the partner on the other side so we can do anything.

Dr. Angie (20:28.926)
Totally. I have to, my cat here, he, so my screen is a touch screen and he sits in front of the computer and once something moves, he touches it I don't want to do that while we're recording because he could just shut the whole thing down. Um, yeah. So that is a yuck. Um, let's do a yum case. We'll do something yum medically. I like a good itchy dog. Like when itchy dogs come in, I'm like, I've got you.

I got this, we're going to figure this out and I, I'm going to fix this. and so that and a vomiting cat. I can do that.

JoJo Smith (21:02.574)
Mmm.

JoJo Smith (21:07.21)
Yeah, you are like the queen of vomiting cats and itchy dogs.

Dr. Angie (21:11.742)
Give me your vomiting cat and itchy dog and I'm gonna make it better. Give me some time. Do what I say. And I promise this is all gonna get better. But.

JoJo Smith (21:17.422)
Yeah.

That's pretty yummy. It pretty yummy.

Dr. Angie (21:23.422)
pretty heavy, but most people don't, most people that hire me don't do what I say. But anyways, that's another story.

JoJo Smith (21:27.31)
I don't know if that's true. They try for a little bit. It's just, hard to be in it for the long haul. Right? Some of the asks are for the long haul. Well, we all want quick fixes. go, what is it?

Dr. Angie (21:34.782)
You

It's hard, it's true.

Dr. Angie (21:43.24)
I thought of another yuck. thought of another yuck. I really don't like it when people tell me. I, Angie, I don't believe in using steroids or I don't believe in vaccinations. I, it really irritates me. I'd rather them say, I would like to avoid steroids or I would like to, you know, be minimal with vaccines, but

JoJo Smith (21:56.046)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie (22:10.856)
There's something about that extreme that's too hard for me because I've literally and on a regular basis saved lives with pharmaceuticals and vaccines, but I'm like,

JoJo Smith (22:20.632)
Well, yeah, it's probably because it limits your, like it's coming in with a limit already of what you can and cannot do. And you probably know that you're already going to step on, like you have to say what works or you're not doing your job.

Dr. Angie (22:27.08)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (22:31.016)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie (22:37.65)
Right?

Like if your dog's immune system is attacking all their red blood cells, they're going to need immunosuppressants, including steroids to save their life. And so when people say, well, I just don't believe in that. I'm like, okay, well, I guess you don't believe in saving your dog's life. Like, help me. And I just think, but you know, me like, I'm so moderate in the middle. Like I, I see all the.

JoJo Smith (22:59.79)
Hahaha

Dr. Angie (23:06.62)
alternative Chinese medicine. use it, love it, but I also see the Western stuff and like, just sit right in the middle because it all has its time and place. And so I think when, even when Western vets, maybe that's also the ick too. Like when people get so polarized, where you're just like, this is not balanced.

JoJo Smith (23:14.338)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo Smith (23:23.118)
That's where you can use the line that my all my teen boys use with me don't yuck my yum Don't yuck my yum so yum sometimes steroids works. Don't yuck it Yeah

Dr. Angie (23:30.174)
Yes!

Don't yuck it.

Or fire me. Just fire me. That's okay too.

JoJo Smith (23:39.656)
that's okay. If it's not gonna work, it's not gonna work. But I think that is another, that's another hiccup or a yuck is, you know, your business name is Boulder Holistic Vet. So people have idea what holistic means versus integrative. And so I think when people think holistic, they think more homeopathic, maybe. Do you think that that's fair?

Dr. Angie (23:45.779)
Yes.

Dr. Angie (23:57.692)
Yes. Yeah.

Dr. Angie (24:05.138)
I think, yeah, I, over the years, I have learned that people's perception of holistic and my perception of holistic are not always the same. And in fact, often are not. So.

JoJo Smith (24:21.014)
Yeah, I would say that's true. think holistic people think is with the absence of Western medicine. Whereas I think of holistic as the whole body, mind body spirit.

Dr. Angie (24:34.226)
Yes. Well, in all the house calls we've made over the years, we even take holistic to the next level of like, what's the dynamic here? You know, what is the environment? And I love that Chinese medicine does this too. They take the animal and also the environment and the external factors, into account in a metaphorical way, but it's still a consideration. And so I like that because I like to think about all of these decisions we're making for like.

JoJo Smith (24:51.736)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (25:02.966)
the guardians health, the cat's health or the dog's health. And then like what's available and what's our budget. To me, that's holistic. Not necessarily.

JoJo Smith (25:05.24)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo Smith (25:12.302)
Maybe we just need to change it to have a W in front of it, like holistic, like the whole being environment, all of it. But yeah, I think that's a yuck, that preconceived notion sometimes. Another yuck. Electric collars. I don't know if you remember this, and this one has stuck with me forever, but we had one.

Dr. Angie (25:21.672)
The whole thing, yes.

Dr. Angie (25:32.414)
Dr. Angie (25:37.608)
I know exactly what you're going to say.

JoJo Smith (25:40.472)
that was using, they were shocking their dog while I was trying to take blood. Do you remember this?

Dr. Angie (25:45.138)
Yeah, I do remember that. It was awful.

JoJo Smith (25:48.438)
Yeah, so uncomfortable. Yeah, like I feel teary in my eyes. It was so upsetting.

Dr. Angie (25:52.476)
Yep. And I don't think I knew.

I know, did you just see both of us were just like, ugh, like I remember.

JoJo Smith (25:59.424)
Yeah, it's just, I was like, please don't shock this dog while I'm trying to build a relationship with it. I don't know, it was just so, and plus I thought, am I gonna get shocked being this close to the shock? Like I had this like moment of like, that's gonna suck with a needle in my, but it's just that moment of not knowing how to advocate in that situation.

Dr. Angie (26:12.934)
Right.

Dr. Angie (26:18.994)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie (26:25.726)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo Smith (26:26.934)
I think when I am in a situation where I feel like I have this really strong sense of what's right and wrong, but don't know what to do in that exact moment because it's being presented in a way that I'm not, like that's just a yuck for me.

Dr. Angie (26:34.002)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie (26:42.206)
That is a yuck. Negative, negative training overall is a yuck for me. And I know, I know that is a very hyperbolic statement. I know that there are some moments and like what we consider to be negative is a spectrum, blah, blah. I know all that, but in general, people that do, you know, use negative reinforcement are not my people, or they just don't know.

JoJo Smith (27:08.59)
Yeah, and well and it's gone so far for that because you know my my dog was bit by a rattlesnake a couple years ago and so I've been looking at the rattlesnake training which is a negative it's it's a negative reinforcement type of training but it would save his life because he's gonna do it again

Dr. Angie (27:30.856)
Do we have data to show that it works?

JoJo Smith (27:34.574)
Well, that's one how I feel about the vaccine that they have. It's I mean.

Not effective enough.

Dr. Angie (27:44.35)
effective enough, right? So it's like, it worth it? But yeah, it could save his life. Yeah. It's tough. It's tough. Like, and it's easy for me because I won't ever probably be the guardian of any of these hurting breeds, maybe a border collie one day, but I'm probably never going to live with a German shepherd. I'm probably, you know, all of these dogs that usually we think of using the shot collars on.

I'm never going to be the one training them. So sometimes I feel a little bit like, yeah, well, that's easy for you to say. You own pugs, Angie.

JoJo Smith (28:15.372)
Yeah. I have a killer. Like, I mean, he killed a bull snake like three months after his rattlesnake bite. So he's more nothing. yuck. He also swallowed a baby bull snake whole and then threw it up. He threw it up and the whole snake was there like no bite marks or anything. And I'm like,

Dr. Angie (28:27.726)
these are nothing.

Dr. Angie (28:35.72)
Did he poop it out? threw it out.

JoJo Smith (28:43.86)
my god, that must have been alive.

Dr. Angie (28:47.802)
Mm-hmm. It's gross. That's a yuck.

JoJo Smith (28:49.006)
That is a yuck. I'm so glad it came out, but like come on. Yeah, so electric collars are a yuck. But people who listen to their dogs and have consensual relationships with their dogs and cats, yum.

Dr. Angie (28:57.725)
Yes.

Dr. Angie (29:07.614)
so yum. Yeah. That's why most cat people like just are my people. I love dogs too, but usually people that love cats are super into consent and emotional intelligence. And so I think it's.

JoJo Smith (29:18.701)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo Smith (29:22.798)
Yeah, as dog people, we are not quite as much. I feel like we have expectations a lot about how they greet people, how they, I don't know, how they play, how they walk, how they, you know, we pet them for comfort for ourselves and not for them a lot of time. And granted, nice behaviors are a wonderful thing, but we're not assessing the whole situation. Like, why are they jumping? Why are they excited?

Dr. Angie (29:38.066)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie (29:42.524)
Yeah, totally.

JoJo Smith (29:52.014)
Or his cat people are like, oh yeah, he's not in the mood. Hey, don't touch him. Bye.

Dr. Angie (29:54.75)
Yeah. Like it's perfectly acceptable for someone to say when they come into, you come into a new house and be like, Hey, don't pet my cat. He'll bite you. And everyone's like, Oh yeah, I know. get it. Makes sense.

JoJo Smith (30:02.294)
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah, I could go through so many. Like I know a lot of people have a yuck around anal gland and they are, they're gross. They smell terrible, but they're also satisfying. Yeah. It is a squeezing thing. It's that, it's that. Yeah. I don't want to, I don't want to be sprayed with anal glands. That's not like the, what I'm going for here. Totally.

Dr. Angie (30:17.8)
They're disgusting, JoJo. What? It's the squeezing thing. You just want to squeeze things.

Dr. Angie (30:29.778)
Totally.

JoJo Smith (30:31.138)
but to express them is satisfying.

Dr. Angie (30:34.642)
It's a smell you can't unsmell. Like once the anal gland smell gets in your nose, it's just there for eternity, it feels like.

JoJo Smith (30:41.623)
and it gets in your hair and you have it for the rest of the day. You have never had anal gland in your hair.

Dr. Angie (30:45.055)
It's disgusting. Thank God I've never had anal gland in my hair. No, or on my face. It's never happened to me. God. And I really know for real. I regret even saying this now. And because then immediately tomorrow. Yeah. I'm picking up a shifted South Boulder tomorrow and it's going to happen to me tomorrow. So maybe I will ensure that only nurses express anal glands tomorrow.

JoJo Smith (30:53.592)
For real?

It's gonna happen

JoJo Smith (31:05.773)
Yes.

JoJo Smith (31:10.414)
Yeah, that, I mean, it's so gross when it's in your hair, but there's so many of these.

Dr. Angie (31:15.932)
Yeah. Well, this was fun talking about yucks and yums. We would love to hear your yucks and yums about your veterinarian. We should have some people on the show. So leave us a comment. Yeah. About your veterinarian, your client care specialist, like people in reception, your veterinary nurse, you know, or even the clinic cat. Sometimes those guys can be.

JoJo Smith (31:26.702)
That would be fun, I would like to know.

JoJo Smith (31:39.854)
Yeah. Or even your dog and cat.

Dr. Angie (31:45.148)
my gosh, we could do a whole episode on our yucks and yums of our own animals.

JoJo Smith (31:49.66)
I would love, we could just read them. I would love people to comment on that.

Dr. Angie (31:53.01)
Yes. So leave us a comment. Be sure to click subscribe no matter what platform you're watching this on. And that way you'll get notified when we release new episodes and we will catch you later.

JoJo Smith (32:09.198)
See ya.