Tails of Truth: The Truth about Veterinary Medicine

Coffee Chat: Just Us, No Agenda

• Dr. Angie Krause, DVM CVA CCRT • Episode 18

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✏️ Summary

In this unplanned, unscripted episode of Tails of Truth, Dr. Angie and JoJo ditch the veterinary agenda (sort of...there's still quite a bit of veterinary talk) and just… chat. From surprise pet stories to what’s happening in their personal lives, this one’s full of laughter, tangents, and those “oh my gosh, same” moments.

You’ll hear about what’s been going on in their lives, what’s unfolding in the business, and a few comical detours along the way. You’ll also hear a few behind-the-scenes confessions and the kind of everyday moments that don’t usually make it into polished veterinary content.

If you’ve ever wanted to feel like you’re sitting in on the breakroom conversation at your vet’s office, this is the episode to queue up. Whether you’re here for the veterinary talk, the laughs, or just to feel like you’re part of the conversation, this episode is a cozy one. Grab your coffee or matcha and join us. 

✅ Key Takeaways 

  • Dr. Angie is genuinely happy at Boulder's Natural Animal — aligned values and a team she trusts, which shows how practice culture matters for clinician well-being.
  • JoJo’s role has evolved from hands-on nursing to e-commerce + management, giving her more flexibility
  • Foxtail injuries can become an urgent, expensive ordeal — JoJo’s Bodhi needed sedation and extraction
  • Website/e-commerce matters  — their old site (WooCommerce/WordPress) was clunky; migrating to Shopify is an investment in accessibility and better client experience.
  • Corporate clinic expansion (e.g., Chewy) is real and visible — Gen Z brand trust and integrated online/offline services make corporate clinics attractive; there’s room for both corporate and independent models if independents emphasize relationship and client-centered care.
  • Market pivots toward affordability are happening (Blue Pearl example reducing prices) — some systems are adjusting pricing to regain accessibility.
  • Government communications around animal health felt political — Dr Angie and JoJo were unsettled by messaging about avian influenza and the lack of clear, consistent data.
  • Student borrowing limits may worsen the veterinary shortage — less borrowing capacity could make veterinary school inaccessible for some and reduce diversity in the profession.
  • Small, unscripted conversations matter — hearing the humanity of the veterinary team builds trust and shows the complexity of decisions veterinarians make

🔊 Sound Bites

“And it's reasonable and I love all the people there so much.” — Dr. Angie

“Love this for you. And I think our clients are really happy too.” — JoJo

“I just feel like I hit the jackpot in terms of roles.” — JoJo

“It's gonna be like a $3,000 ordeal by the time it's done.” — JoJo

“It's clunky and we're sorry and we're making it better.” — Dr. Angie

“That's a shift in corporate veterinary medicine, in my opinion.” — Dr. Angie

Please subscribe and review! xoxo Dr. Angie & JoJo


Dr. Angie Krause (00:00)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie and this is my veterinary nurse JoJo and we are shooting the shit today.

JoJo (00:12)
That's what I'm naming

this episode, shoot this shit. And this, this really is unscripted. It's just Angie and I haven't seen each other for a hot minute and thought maybe we should just talk about all the things that have been like in our little brains.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:20)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally. And I just moved my microphone. Can you still hear me? Okay. Every time I move it, I'm like, Oh no. Okay. Okay. It's a little bit better. Yeah. So we just have stuff we need to catch up on. And I want to start by saying I've been at Boulder's Natural Animal now for, I don't know, like four months. And I am so happy there. I love it so much.

JoJo (00:35)
you did? I can hear you louder. Yeah, so, we'll see. Okay.

Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:57)
And I'm so happy to combine my practice with another practice that feels just as lovely and ⁓ wholesome. And people there really care about people and pets from the receptionist to every nurse, to every doctor. Like, I just want to send some love and tell everyone how happy I am. And it's great to work there.

JoJo (01:24)
love this for you. And I think our clients are really happy too.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:26)
Yes.

think so too. Yeah. And I just have to brag about this clinic, especially now that I've been doing relief all over the Denver Metro for the last year. This is, you're never going to get a high sales pressure or high pressure sales is what I was trying to say. You're never going to get any of that. It all feels really accessible. No one's doing things that they shouldn't be doing. There's a lot of connection. Everyone wants to do the right thing.

And I wish I could say that was easy to find, but it's pretty rare. And so I'm so happy. I get to practice the way I want to practice. And I love coming to work every single day.

JoJo (02:11)
my goodness, this is so exciting because I have known you for a while now. And so there were some places you're like, maybe I should take this one, but it wasn't just right. Or there was a lot of fear about being constricted to a schedule. And so I'm really happy to hear that it feels like a good fit and that you waited and listened to your intuition for the right fit.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:18)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yes. Always listen to that. I, yeah, I absolutely love it there. And anyone that brings their pet there, and I know right now they probably, if you call in your new client, they might say, oh, we're not seeing new clients for a while, but that's just for the summer. Like, please, please keep at it because I do think it's a great place for your pet. It's somewhere I would take my pets and I think the medicine is just how I like it.

and it's reasonable and I love all the people there so much. Yeah, that's rare, rare in veterinary medicine.

JoJo (03:09)
I love that for you. That makes me so happy. ⁓ well, let's talk about rare. So here's,

this is how this episode is going to go. We're just going to go rapid fire. So I feel it's really rare that I have the position that I have here. So it's, I am a veterinary nurse, but I'm not practicing by seeing patients anymore. ⁓ Angie and I have seen patients together for a while. And you guys, I got, I just got older.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:17)
Okay. Okay.

JoJo (03:36)
So, you know, I was thinking about this, I'm like, I have to put on my readers and turn on a flashlight if I'm going to be under a table collecting blood. You know? So it's just got to a point where I want, I want it to shift and you have been such an amazing, I hate calling you a boss. I don't like that word, but okay, boss. What do I call you? She is like, ⁓

Dr. Angie Krause (03:36)
Hahaha

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Pass!

JoJo (04:02)
Yeah, I just really appreciate what the role has transitioned into and that I'm still able to get little touch points with people and I get to do all the e-commerce, but also that it's become a place where my boys are now almost flown the nest. And it's interesting how mothering has shifted is that I still have a mothering role, but now, I mean, I'm going to Switzerland next month with one of my college students and I can still do my job.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:22)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo (04:31)
And I was so nervous to ask for that. And I asked Angie, I'm like, hey, I've got this opportunity. And I'm going to Hawaii in December. So it feels like, God, JoJo grab, grab, grab. That's what it feels like. And Angie's response to me is, well, that's the beauty of this job. Like what you should be traveling and working. that's, you know, there's just some guilt that I was able to set down about being available.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:31)
It's amazing.

Yeah.

Yes,

you should live your life. Yeah, you can be pretty location independent because JoJo does all the shipment. So if you buy something from our website, JoJo's sending it out, but also her entire family is cross-trained on how to do it. So if JoJo needs to be out of town, either I do it or someone in the fam does it. It's a family business at this point.

JoJo (05:20)
It totally is. And I thought that because

I think I've only handed off to you maybe three times in the last. And it will happen in December because I don't know how it happened, but my whole family said yes to Hawaii.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:27)
Maybe. Yeah.

Right, so if your shipment is messed up in December, like no one in JoJo's family ever messes it up, but I 100 % will. Okay, knock on wood. Yeah.

JoJo (05:39)
⁓ don't plant that seed. Because this will be the most away I've been. ⁓ I don't know. Anyhow, so

I just feel like I hit the jackpot in terms of roles. And it's shifted many, many, many times over the years. It's, yeah. But.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:58)
Yes. Well,

I love you so much and I'm so glad that we get to work together. I would do anything to keep this going. So I feel like I hit the jackpot with you. Right, totally.

JoJo (06:10)
All right. Well, we're just living in a bucket of gold. Okay. What are

we going to talk about? Well, yeah. Oh, let's speaking of like jackpots. Um, I wish that I could get veterinary care from you. It's so funny to me that I have to get veterinary care over here because I live so far away. So no, you are and you aren't like, yeah, I use Dr. Angie for consults but not blood draws.

Dr. Angie Krause (06:28)
I know. I know. It's so true. I'm not your veterinarian, really.

Yeah.

JoJo (06:39)
Does that make sense? I had to take Bodhi in. I think I told you, did I tell you I had to take him to urgent care? ⁓ So I've been using two practices. I've been going back and forth between a very small private owned practice, but then he got all these grass seeds, which if you, I don't know, these ones were really fun. They were like a little arrowhead with the long, I can't remember what they're called, but.

Dr. Angie Krause (06:39)
Totally.

Yes.

Yes.

JoJo (07:08)
And when I say fun, I'm being very sarcastic because Bodhi is this big furry dog. he, mean, his paws were covered in them like Velcro. So I took him to the groomer hoping we could just like shave them out before they embedded. And she's like, no, sedated exam. So I called the small practice that I've been going to, but because the vet was out of town, they're just not seeing patients for a week and a half. You know, so it's kind of, which I thought they need a relief.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:10)
Totally. Yeah, no, they...

Yeah.

JoJo (07:36)
They need a relief vet so they don't just shut down. So then I went back to the city vet that I've been seeing. And I actually am liking it there. So I'm going to say that. the corporate, being a corporate, I have actually been appreciating the care that I've got there. But yeah, he had to have a sedated exam and 150 grass seeds pulled out.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:37)
I know. Totally.

Who counted those? That's what I want to know.

JoJo (08:04)
Right, I'm sure

she was like, he was under, well, he wasn't under general anesthesia, it was just sedation, but you know, ⁓ that was the whole thing. But in the process, I'm like, think he has a foxtail in his arm, because something is swelling there. And it came back as just some kind of irritation, you know, just like a lot of different cells, but not mast cell. But I still think it's a mast cell tumor. It's still there. And after she poked it, it got big.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:12)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Well, I wonder if there's a grass on in there. ⁓

JoJo (08:32)
And then it got small.

I know, I'm so I've scheduled July 30th for her to take it off. Yeah, but she's also like, it is acting like a mast cell. So I mean, just to say that, sometimes we have to advocate for ourselves and figure it out.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:42)
take it off. Okay, yeah.

Yeah.

You do.

There's a lot of grass on or fox tails or what there's a million things to call them. Yeah, there are

JoJo (09:00)
Yeah, well, there's a

million different types of them.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:03)
There are, I pulled one out on Friday that had like gotten like lodged above the large pad and like you could see the entry hole, but I couldn't tell what was going on behind there. And so I sedated the dog and just flushed and flushed and finally got it out. But then of course I immediately had anxiety that there were more in there, but surely only one got in there, right? ⁓ But yeah, so.

JoJo (09:19)
you did.

yeah. I don't know. When I saw Bodhi's

feet, Adam learned, my husband Adam, learned a very expensive lesson, because I kept saying, don't take him out in there when there's foxtails So now it's sidewalks only.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:40)
Yeah, no, they're, they're pretty awful. They're pretty awful. I I you wish you had that pet insurance right now. ⁓

JoJo (09:43)
It's gonna be like a $3,000 ordeal. $3,000 ordeal by the time it's done. Ugh, it is pretty bad.

No.

I don't know. Every time we do and talk about insurance, I am so back and forth. I'm so back and forth about it. Because then we did a newsletter about it and some people responded about how they've been screwed by insurance. Like there was another person who was just dropped by her policy when her cat was like 15.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:00)
But even now? Yeah.

Yeah, that's true.

Lemonade took such good care of Fritz and I. Like, Fritz gets physical therapy. And like when I submit my claim to Lemonade, and I'm not paid by Lemonade, by the way, this is not, you know, I have no relationship other than I use their product. I submit the claim immediately gets approved. Immediate approval. And they're like, yeah, it's approved. Great. We're going to pay you now. I'm like, ⁓ thank you.

JoJo (10:31)
Yeah.

Right? And then

I had someone reach out who's fighting with their insurance company over a possible mast cell tumor. And I'm like, I don't want to fight with somebody. That's so energy sucking.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:50)
We have to fight with our own insurances, like, you know, own medical insurance. Yeah. It's gross.

JoJo (10:54)
⁓ human insurances? It's such a nightmare. ⁓

Yeah, that's my Bodhi story. It's going on in your world.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:04)
Let's see, I have spent so much of the summer working in a clinic, either at Boulder's Natural or doing some relief work. And I'm working so hard because we are rebranding the website, which is so exciting. And so, yeah, we are completely moving platforms. Everything's getting redone. And so we have a firm that is helping us because

JoJo (11:21)
So exciting.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:33)
What we do know to be true right now, if you buy a product from our website, you have to really want to, because at every turn it is like the least user friendly situation, non-intuitive. I mean, can we just say we love our, what we've done, but like our website's the worst. ⁓

JoJo (11:37)
I know what you're doing.

Well, the

checkout process is rough, and then we've not had blogs forever because you played with it. ⁓ I don't know where they are or how to bring them back. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:56)
It's-

I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah. So like we lost our web developer that we've had forever and then we had trouble finding a new one. And so we, we just decided to like completely abandon WooCommerce and WordPress all together. So we're going over to Shopify, which if you don't run an e-commerce business, this means nothing to you other than we have been two veterinary professionals trying to like do WordPress ourself.

Like that has been ourselves, I should say. That's been really difficult. So we finally said uncle and we've hired this really amazing firm and they're just, we love them. Like I wanna put on Facebook that I'm in a long-term relationship with them. That's how much I love them. I'm like, can we just be together forever?

JoJo (12:41)
Yeah. Oh, they're amazing. It feels so good. They get us. They? Yeah.

Well, isn't

it beautiful to be seen? They've met with us a few times and then they are able to nail in how we feel about people, how we feel about pets, what we want you to feel like when you get here. And I think they are gonna present us in a way that is so aligned and so true that we haven't been able to do for ourselves.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:12)
Yes.

Right, because we're just veterinary professionals at the end of the day. so.

JoJo (13:24)
That's true. Who make big mistakes in WooCommerce

and all those mistakes always show up on a Friday night.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:31)
I know all of it's on the Friday Yeah,

so we get to put all of that down pretty soon. I think the website's gonna be ready by definitely October 1st, right? Is that what we're thinking?

JoJo (13:41)
Well, now that I'm going to Switzerland, I'm hoping that they are a little slower, because I know I'm gonna have this whole learning curve of...

Dr. Angie Krause (13:46)
⁓

⁓ right. Well, we'll figure it out. It'll be fine. We've figured out way more complicated situations.

JoJo (13:52)
Yeah.

Bye.

I

am so excited. Every time they show me stuff, I get feelings.

Dr. Angie Krause (14:03)
Yes. Well, and then for you as users, when you need to buy something we recommend or download a course or just try to find content that I've hidden, I've hidden all of our content accidentally. ⁓ it's going to be so much easier for you. And the other thing we're doing is we're taking natural cat vet. our cat only brand and we're, we're giving it, we're putting it back on Boulder holistic vet, but it's going to have its own place. Just so there's only one website for us to manage.

So cats still get their own place, but it's just gonna make our daily kind of operations so much easier. And then you'll have access to more information in a much more intuitive way. So if you have been purchasing on our website, we love you because we know it was hard. my gosh, we love you, we love you.

JoJo (14:47)
Right.

We know you are committed and loyal, especially subscription people. I'm so sorry, you guys.

It's been your product always gets there on time. But I have been making excuses for years of like, it's clunky, you guys, it's clunky.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:02)
I'm so sorry. Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

It's clunky and we're sorry and we're making it better.

JoJo (15:19)
And we know

it, yes. So you've been working extra hours to pay for this web team. You guys, she works all the time. This is why we haven't seen each other. She is working all the time.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:24)
to pay for it. Yes, like I just work all the time. am. Yeah.

Yep, if I don't have my children, I am in a clinic. I'm hustling so that we can make this a better experience for everyone, including ourselves. This is a gift to us as much as it is to you.

JoJo (15:37)
Yeah.

Yes.

And maybe now you'll feel confident to share. Hey, I found this great website. And somebody told us that, and it's so true, told us, if people are buying from you, they really, really want to be buying from you. I was like, ⁓ ow. And, and you're right.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:53)
Yes.

We do. yeah. I know. Right. We

are not webmasters. We really tried. We tried for a year for Solid year We tried to do it. But we.

JoJo (16:18)
Yeah. So we're just getting to a place that things are being managed, that we're being able to put out the weekly newsletter again. And, you know, I'm finding that the rhythm is starting to come back. It's not just putting out fires.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:26)
Yes.

Yes. Yeah.

No, things fell apart for a hot minute there. And we just pulled them back together. Cause that's what JoJo and I do. Like we're both mothers and go getters and you can count on us. We're gonna, we're gonna get it done.

JoJo (16:50)
That's true. And in that process, we did get screwed over a little bit too. A lot. Like you hire the wrong people and it can get so bad.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:55)
Yes. ⁓

Yeah,

that happened to us for kind of years, year after year, in multiple different kind of arenas of the website and ads. ⁓ we finally got on track. What's really hard about being a veterinary professional and then being in the online space is that you don't know what you don't know, because of course you don't. so...

JoJo (17:04)
⁓ it does not look...

Yeah. Well, and it's changing. That's why they're,

it changes all the time.

Dr. Angie Krause (17:27)
all the time.

JoJo (17:29)
It's

pretty impressive that you've grown this business without ads.

Dr. Angie Krause (17:33)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think what we do, we fill a space for people that need support and nurturing. And I think we do really good work. And now we're going to have a website that can help us reach more people in a more accessible way. And we're in love with the people that are doing it for us. So there's just so much love. They love us. We love them.

JoJo (18:01)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:02)
I'm

telling you. It's a long-term relationship we're in now.

JoJo (18:05)
It's,

I'm so giddy excited about all of it. Where's it going? I just hope, I keep having this like, am I putting myself out of a job? Like is it gonna get so streamlined that I'm gonna like just bump myself out? And then, I don't stay there very long.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:08)
Yes.

Yeah.

No.

That's hilarious. That is hilarious.

⁓ no, because the only reason you think that is because the part they're taking over is just a small fraction, but it's what we, it's consumed us for the past year. It's been.

JoJo (18:38)
Yeah, that's true.

So it's like, who am I without that? Who am I without that? I know I walked through my house this morning. Mike, look at me. I'm gonna be famous podcast star. I've got makeup on. What is this?

Dr. Angie Krause (18:41)
Yeah, well now you're a podcaster.

⁓ I

know we put on mascara when I put on mascara, you know, it's going to be a day. So.

JoJo (18:58)
You

Yeah,

but the conversations we have if we're just shooting the shit is like, so does mascara go on lowers when you're over 40? Does it? I don't know. So then that's the question I keep asking. How do we attract youngers? I mean, are we older? Where are we? Where do we fit? Because I think I'm cool.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:12)
Yeah, someone tell us. I don't know.

⁓ I mean, we...

Right, but then you hang out with a middle schooler. But I'm not cool. Although, I have a 13-year-old daughter. But sometimes I am. Sometimes she'll say, you know, she calls me mom queen. I know, mom queen. Bruh, yeah, I don't have that for sure. No, I think I.

JoJo (19:27)
I think you're cool. Oh, you're probably not cool at all because you have a, you have a, you have a 13 year old daughter.

Eww.

I'm bruh.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:56)
I don't feel very old.

JoJo (19:59)
Yeah, see, I don't feel old. I told you I went dancing this weekend for a 30 plus dance party. I felt so young and I'm like, we can attract young. What do Gen Zers want with their pets? I have something about that. Can I tell you? I read something. ⁓ I was reading about Chewy and how they are wanting to...

Dr. Angie Krause (20:01)
Yeah.

⁓ yes.

JoJo (20:25)
dominate the market. There is no big player that dominates the vet market yet. So there are about, I think five companies that own about 15 % of the veterinary market. Yeah. I don't know. So Chewy, I'm assuming Chewy paid to get this information because they're probably got some big investment firm that can do market analysis for them. God, listen to me, business speak.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:36)
What about Mars? They probably...

Okay.

Yeah.

You know the deal.

JoJo (20:54)
I don't

know. So they put out and found out that 80 % of Gen Z'ers are willing to get their veterinary care from a Chewy clinic because it's a name they trust. So they want all of their services in one name that they can trust. So Chewy with that data is now on a mission to open a whole ton of clinics.

So if you want to invest in stock, Chewy is the stock to invest in right now. ⁓

Dr. Angie Krause (21:24)
And I've done relief at a Chewy Clinic.

JoJo (21:27)
and yes, and you liked it.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:29)
I did. mean, it's still definitely a corporate structure, but they really are trying to make every experience a good one. And I really appreciated that. They're gorgeous. my gosh.

JoJo (21:45)
Yeah, I imagine.

So they're going to be pretty. They're going to have their own pharmacy. It's all going to be, yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:48)
Swanky. Yes, and what's really great is like anything

I want, I just order it online for them. I put it in their own cart, like their cart. So I'm like, I want this compounded drug. I just put it in their

JoJo (21:59)
⁓ yeah.

So I just had this moment that I believe that Chewy can dominate the market.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:07)
you do?

JoJo (22:07)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:08)
Interesting. So they have two.

JoJo (22:10)
And that's what Gen

Z wants, a name they trust.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:14)
Yeah. So do you think that they're like, we're going to be moving away from like the local privately owned clinic and more

JoJo (22:22)
I'm so

sad about that and yes, I'm watching myself do it.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:24)
Interesting.

Right? Cause you're liking your corporate outfit that you're using.

JoJo (22:31)
It's just more

accessible. I like its accessibility.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:34)
Right. And that is true. Like right now, if you were to try to get appointment with me at Boulder's Natural Animal, you're going to wait a little bit. Or they might say, we're not taking new clients until September or whatever. Because right now there's just three of us. Three doctors.

JoJo (22:50)
Yeah, what I like about

my independent owned one that I go to is it's the same people there. I see the same faces. I'm imagining the city vet is probably gonna have a higher turnover. I don't know why I imagine that. That's just my imagination.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:55)
rate.

Unless they're really good

to their doctors and they let people come and feel at home.

JoJo (23:10)
Yeah, you saw I sent you. I'm like, wait, look at this. They need a relief vet. I need you to go. Go be eyes on the ground.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:15)
I know. I can,

I have done an urgent care shift with a city vet, but I mean, I can't tall anything by one shift in an urgent care situation because you just, you don't see it there. At that day there wasn't enough volume. So I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. This is what, yeah, this is what we're doing. Okay. Is Chewy going to be taking over?

JoJo (23:26)
Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Then this is how we talk every time.

I'm gonna invest.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:44)
You're doing, you're investing. I mean.

JoJo (23:46)
Yeah, even though it's

kind of like the antithesis of what I believe in, but I do want money to retire Angie, so like, I'm gonna make some choices here.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:53)
Right.

Right. You do need money to retire. yeah. And when I practiced there, it wasn't a bad product at all. Like I did not feel like I, I liked my nursing staff for me a lot of times. Like how happy I am is like how, how well my nursing staff and I get along and like, they're so supportive. And I mean, it was, it was a good vibe for sure. And I took a video of it. don't know if Chewy would want me to do this, but like, it's so beautiful.

JoJo (24:15)
Mm-hmm.

you

Dr. Angie Krause (24:27)
It's so beautiful. So, so funky.

JoJo (24:29)
just think they have the money

behind them and the name behind them that they, if they want to make it happen, they can make it happen. And it makes me sad because the truth is what we offer is so different and I don't want what we offer to go away. ⁓ but the telehealth consultations, I also feel like that is that's gold.

Dr. Angie Krause (24:34)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

It won't. Yeah.

Yes.

JoJo (24:53)
that

no corporate will be able to do that.

Dr. Angie Krause (24:56)
No. And that's why I think there's really room for all of us. I really do. I think that there's room at the table for everyone. I totally support whatever Chewy's doing. I've had good days there and I felt like the medicine I could practice there was good. And I felt like the clients were really happy. And one thing I really loved is that the...

mission of Chewy is to make everyone feel like special and because they are, know, make their visit feel as, you know, tailored to them as possible. And I think that's great. And so I love Chewy for that. Everybody loves Chewy. I mean, they definitely cut into veterinary margins, but as an entrepreneur, I think, and this is a hot take that a lot of veterinarians might come at me for.

JoJo (25:43)
Definitely.

Dr. Angie Krause (25:50)
I think it's our job as entrepreneurs to adapt to the environment. so yeah, online pharmacies are cheaper. And so how do we adapt to that? So we're not going to have as much revenue from heartworm prevention or whatever, because more people are going to go online to get it. So I think it's our job to figure out how we run our businesses and where our value is.

JoJo (26:00)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Well, did you see that, um, blue pearl in Lafayette? I believe it was blue pearl only in Lafayette reduced the prices of many of their services by 30 by 30%. They said, we recognize that veterinary medicine has become inaccessible for many people. And so it was like their, um, for cat blocks, you know, for urinary blockages. Um, I don't know, there were like four big procedures that they just 30 % reduction.

Dr. Angie Krause (26:22)
they did.

It's good to know.

Okay, that's good to know. And I mean, they're listening to what people and their pets are needing. And I think that's good.

JoJo (26:50)
So

I see the pivots and the adaptations happening. Some clinics won't be able to adapt quick enough.

Dr. Angie Krause (26:56)
Mm-hmm.

Well, think people, think clinics that aren't centering their clients, that's where I think that's, those are the clinics that are going to hurt corporate or not. And there are some corporate outfits that are not centering their clients. I've definitely seen those, but I think if you keep doing the right thing, then I, you know, if you keep doing the right thing for the client and for the pet, I think it'll be fine.

JoJo (27:09)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I like that about the city vet too, is they have a groomer on site.

Dr. Angie Krause (27:33)
my gosh, how do they keep

a groomer? Who can keep a groomer though?

JoJo (27:37)
I don't know, but she was so much better than our previous groomer that I just keep settling and going to and they don't like my dog. It's so clear. ⁓ And so I tried them on this time and it was less expensive. They only have one groomer so they see less dog, like it's less stressful for the dog. And when I was walking out, the vet who saw Bodie happened to be there and she's like, how's that, how's that mass on his arm? And I said, actually,

Dr. Angie Krause (27:44)
⁓ okay.

Mm-hmm.

JoJo (28:05)
Just today I thought I felt something sharp around it, like maybe a foxtail's working its way out. And she's like, ⁓ so she just took them back and went and looked at it. So I liked that it was like a one, I don't know, like a one stop shop. So accessibility. Okay, what else? I mean, you sent me something. You sent me something about...

Dr. Angie Krause (28:13)
⁓ yes. Yes. I like that too.

Yes.

JoJo (28:30)
we're going political in veterinary medicine.

Dr. Angie Krause (28:33)
We're going political. It got a little scary. So we, get emails from the USDA because I am an accredited veterinarian and I can ship animals in between state lines or I can write them a health certificate so they can be shipped in between state lines and internationally. And so I forwarded this email to JoJo because it was the first time I had seen any

politicized content from the USDA. Like, just don't normally see that. For the last 18 years, I've been an accredited veterinarian.

JoJo (29:11)
Yeah. I. Well, yeah, I can. It came by way of Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins or Rollins, maybe. It says, OK, what is that? What is about? It was an update on blue bird flu strategy.

Dr. Angie Krause (29:12)
Do you wanna read some of it?

JoJo (29:33)
and that egg prices continue to fall, which is right there. That probably was the clue that was going political because somehow we made egg prices political. This says when President Trump entered office, the cost of eggs was at a record high, seriously denting consumers' wallets after years of awful inflation. On my first day as secretary, we got to work to implement a five-prong strategy to improve biosecurity on the farm and lower egg prices on grocery store shelves.

Dr. Angie Krause (29:37)
Yep.

Definitely.

JoJo (30:02)
The plan has worked and families are seeing relief with egg prices driving food deflation in the April consumer price index. While we are proud that over 900 bio security assessments have been conducted to date, resources remain available and we are urging poultry farmers of all sizes to get your assessments done today.

Is that the part that felt?

Dr. Angie Krause (30:20)
Well, then there was a part about, there was something, they mentioned Joe Biden in there. Yeah. They mentioned about something horrible. Yeah. Yeah.

JoJo (30:26)
they did. I remember that. Why don't I see it on this?

⁓ yeah, here it is. Here it is.

Says it's a five prong strategy announced in February to combat highly pathogenic avian influenza after reaching a record high due to the Biden administration's lack of action. Wholesale egg prices have now dropped 64 % with retail prices falling 27 % from their peak earlier this year. We must remain diligent. ⁓ Yeah, that was a piece.

Dr. Angie Krause (30:55)
Yeah. And the part that rose me the wrong way is we've never had that kind of rhetoric in the USDA that has been communicated to me about like what president is in office and their policies and that sort of thing. And so I, I was really disappointed and kind of alarmed to see that, like what administration we have to blame. And now that

JoJo (31:21)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (31:21)
this administration is here where everything's gonna be better. And what we do know is that there have been so many cuts to the CDC, the USDA, the FDA, that there's no way things are going better. And I mean, I don't know who's gonna come get me for saying this, but I'm gonna say it. Like, I wonder how much we just don't know now that because we're not getting the data.

JoJo (31:47)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (31:49)
because no one's looking at it. so basically looking at egg prices alone as like the metric for success feels really scary. And I was alarmed as a veterinarian to see that I do care about egg prices as a veterinarian, but that's not the first metric or the most important metric, right? Like I just thought, no. So, no.

JoJo (32:10)
Mm-mm. Right.

no. Well,

and on that, no, we had made some episodes around avian influenza in the beginning that we didn't release because it was, there was information and then there was no information. And I can't imagine it just went away. And so that feels, I don't know. I made the decision to hold those episodes because I'm not sure it's useful when we don't know what's happening now.

Dr. Angie Krause (32:44)
We don't know what's happening now. I, I agree with that. And I am, I am. I, what I think I'm getting from this is that we actually just don't have the information and now we're just going to deflect to egg prices and which administration and you know, we don't care which administration we just care about our security and our, you know, health practices, like food, animal health practices. so I'm alarmed.

JoJo (33:13)
Well, and didn't they put a pause on development of a bird flu vaccine?

Dr. Angie Krause (33:18)
I mean, that's what I heard on the news, but we're not right. And so you're just, it's so hard to know what, what we're trusting and what we're hearing. But now that the, bodies that I have always trusted, I'm now looking at thinking like, no. no.

JoJo (33:20)
⁓ that's right. I don't know where I hurt it. Yeah. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, they're

infiltrated in terms of what they can and can't put out.

Dr. Angie Krause (33:41)
right. And now we're blaming administrations and I just, I've just never seen it get political like this. So sad. And now everyone that listens to this knows. And then hopefully someone doesn't come get me somewhere.

JoJo (33:51)
Yeah. Woo! Yeah.

I don't know. I won't go into that. I'll hold that. I'm gonna hold.

Dr. Angie Krause (34:03)
Yeah. So

yeah, I guess there's so many reasons to come and get me, but like.

JoJo (34:08)
No, I was... I don't know, I have ideas. Okay. Wow.

Dr. Angie Krause (34:14)
Yeah.

So, I mean, overall things are going well in life, but there are, you know, we still have to stay vigilant about everything that's not going well.

JoJo (34:23)
How do you stay vigilant about what you don't know?

Dr. Angie Krause (34:26)
I don't know. Yep, eyes wide open.

JoJo (34:28)
Eyes wide open.

we were going to talk about VPA, but I was thinking about that while we were sitting here. Like maybe that is a decent episode because Colorado voted for a VPA. Now I don't even remember what that veterinary practice, what was it? Associate veterinary. I don't remember what it stands for now, ⁓ but that is rolling out.

Dr. Angie Krause (34:45)
Yes, yeah.

But we do,

it's rolling out and we do have a whole episode about it. I think we should publish it.

JoJo (34:55)
Yeah, I think I need to go and listen to it. That's why I was like, maybe we don't need to talk about it. And I know that Florida either just recently voted on it or is voting on it. So it not even waiting to see if we, if Colorado can successfully do it. Well, yeah, but that's something I'm going to go one more place because that, that makes sense that, but all these cuts to ⁓ funding for

Dr. Angie Krause (35:10)
Okay, I've got to pick up my cat.

Okay.

JoJo (35:24)
There's a max limit on which you can borrow now for school, for schooling. So I've, I'm on a lot of veterinary channels and I'm just watching people say they can't now attend the veterinary program that they were accepted to because they can't borrow enough money. So we might actually have just induced another shortage, which means your veterinary medicine is going to get more expensive.

Dr. Angie Krause (35:28)
Yes. Yes.

Yep. Yep. It's a disaster.

Yes. Yes.

Yes. Or do you think that's what it means or it's just harder to find? More expensive?

JoJo (35:52)
Well, if you can't,

mean, So I'm thinking, so I'm thinking, yeah, exactly.

Dr. Angie Krause (35:54)
Right, right, right. Supply-demand.

Yeah, I guess I can see how if we have less veterinarians it gets more expensive. I'd hate that though.

JoJo (36:08)
Or if your debt is bigger, how's that going to even work? Or we're going to have less diversity in veterinary medicine.

Dr. Angie Krause (36:12)
I don't know, our debt's pretty big. And we still don't get-

That is guaranteed, and there's already hardly any diversity in veterinary medicine. Yeah.

JoJo (36:22)
Yeah, so I

mean, ugh, people.

Dr. Angie Krause (36:26)
I know. Ug.

JoJo (36:28)
It makes me

sad. Can you imagine getting to the point that you were accepted to a program and you can't go?

Dr. Angie Krause (36:33)
No, especially to veterinary school, it's so hard to get in. It's so hard to get in. And so that is devastating. Yeah, it's devastating. Yeah.

JoJo (36:38)
It's devastating news. So, okay,

I will end on that. No, let's not end on a sad note. I'm so happy you're at Boulder's Natural. I'm so happy for our website development. I'm so happy for the job I get to have. You're really cutey. Wait, is he your chunker? my God, he's so handsome on camera. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (36:53)
And look at this cute kitty. Look how chunky he is. He is a chunk. Because like this is him before when he was a kitten. Isn't he? He's so happy right now.

And his little foot is doing so much better. It's healing. It's healing. So.

JoJo (37:12)
So cute.

My dog would never let me lift him up and show him on camera. Okay.

Dr. Angie Krause (37:17)
No, no, no. Okay. Well,

as a little parting gift, I know we were just shooting the shit today, but if you want to learn from us on the website, boulderholisticvet.com, if you go to courses, you can get any course for free by using the truth tales spelled either way, any way you want to spell tails, T A L E S T A I L S and it

JoJo (37:44)
That's a hundred dollar value y'all. It's $97.

Dr. Angie Krause (37:47)
It is!

JoJo (37:47)
Like, and I just said y'all. Okay, Truth Tales free course. And until next time, bye.

Dr. Angie Krause (37:50)
That's okay. Okay. Okay. Talk to you soon. Bye.