Tails of Truth: The Truth about Veterinary Medicine

Spays and Neuters: The Truth About Timing, Risks, and Options

• Episode 24

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🎙 Summary

In this episode of Tails of Truth, Dr. Angie and JoJo tackle the evolving conversation around spaying and neutering dogs and cats. They explore how timing affects growth, health, and behavior, and why there’s no one-size-fits-all answer. From early spay concerns and orthopedic risks, to quality-of-life considerations like daycare access, to newer options such as ovary-sparing spays and vasectomies, this discussion highlights the importance of individualized veterinary advice. They also share candid insights on the unique challenges with cats, the myths around male dogs, and the role hormones play in long-term pet health and behavior.

Whether you’re a first-time pet parent or a seasoned dog or cat guardian, this conversation will help you weigh the options with compassion, science, and your pet’s unique needs in mind.

🔑 Key Takeaways

  • Spay and neuter guidelines are changing—modern veterinary medicine encourages more individualized decisions.
  • Early spaying (before 6 months) can increase behavior problems and urinary incontinence.
  • Allowing dogs to grow with their hormones intact may reduce orthopedic issues like cruciate tears.
  • Pyometra (uterine infection) is a serious, often fatal risk in intact female dogs—especially after age 5.
  • Ovary-sparing spays and vasectomies are emerging alternatives, though they may require later surgeries.
  • Intact male dogs can be bullied at dog parks, affecting socialization and daycare options.
  • Cats are a very different case—living with an intact female cat in heat is not realistic for most homes.
  • Quality of life—yours and your pet’s—matters.
  • Open, ongoing conversations with your veterinarian are key to making the best decision for your animal.
  • There is no universal answer—take it one heat cycle, one year, and one pet at a time.

 🎤 Sound Bites 

 “We used to spay dogs by six months, but now we know early spays can create more problems.” – Dr. Angie

 “Once you’ve seen a pyometra… it’s one of my least favorite texts or emails to get.” ~JoJo

 “When we remove hormones too early, growth plates close later and that changes the way joints form.” – Dr. Angie 

"Cats in heat are beside themselves. No one should live with that.” – Dr. Angie

 “A behavior issue that I hear about a lot when a dog is intact is humping. But I feel like I see that in all dogs. Male, female, intact, not intact.” ~JoJo

"There’s no one-size-fits-all answer — take it one heat cycle, one year, one pet at a time.” – Dr. Angie 

Please subscribe and review! xoxo Dr. Angie & JoJo


Dr. Angie Krause (00:00)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie and this is my co-host and veterinary nurse extraordinaire JoJo Hey JoJo. We have a great... Well you do. I am pink. Is it spring? All the tulips.

JoJo (00:11)
Hey, hi. We look all fallish today for people who can't see us.

I feel like pink is a fall color. Yeah, it's like a year

round color.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:27)
Today we're gonna talk about early or late, spay and neuter. When should you spay or neuter your dog? This is definitely not an episode for cats. Although we can give cats a mention, but most people spay and neuter their cats on time and every once in a while they don't, I think that's for, we'll mention it in here, but this is mostly for dogs.

JoJo (00:39)
Mmm.

Okay.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:54)
And

it's changing over time, our recommendations.

JoJo (00:56)
And we're gonna cover

your options with spaying and neutering beyond timeline. You're getting some options in that world.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:00)
Yes.

Yes.

JoJo (01:04)
So where do we want to jump in?

Dr. Angie Krause (01:06)
Well,

I had a really great conversation yesterday in my exam room and an 18 month old Akita came in and I can I just get off topic and have an ADHD moment where I just I want an Akita. Like we just. ⁓

JoJo (01:22)
It's so funny that you say

this right now, because I just launched our dog breed episode yesterday where you talk about how badly you want an Akita and it got shut down by the dog trainer.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:33)
Yes, yeah, Marissa Martino was like, ma'am, no.

JoJo (01:36)
So

funny that you would launch right into this timely.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:41)
I know. So I just have to like, I just want an Akita and as a single woman, just, would love to have an Akita next to me. Like they are so protective, but they look like teddy bears. And this Akita that I saw yesterday, she wasn't overly affectionate, but she was a little bit more affectionate. She was very sweet and gentle. And it just made me want one. know.

For those of you listening, I'm not going to get one. I have small children. And I know that they're great with small children, but I'm pretty sure if I got an Akita it would bite my kid's friends. anyways. ⁓

JoJo (02:14)
There we go. So it sounds

like you saw a female Akita, so maybe we just jump into spays

Dr. Angie Krause (02:20)
Let's talk about spays. So we used to spay dogs by six months. Now, if a dog's in a shelter, you know, we'll do it really early, eight to 12 weeks. And we know the literature tells us that we have more bad outcomes when we spay dogs before six months. We have more behavior problems. We have more urinary incontinence.

It's not really a good idea if you can to spay them before six months or neuter them before six months, but a lot of shelters do it. And the reason why they're doing it is because they're trying to save lives. So you have, you know, an overpopulation of dogs and cats and what to do about that. But then you also have an individual animal's needs that we're trying to balance. And so

In this episode, I am not gonna come after shelter medicine and what shelter veterinarians are doing. And they're doing their best work and they're doing what they think is best. And so I am not going to be critical of them at all.

JoJo (03:25)
On that note, I ask a question? The question being, okay, so this is gonna be for people who are able to buy from a breeder, most likely, but also a lot of breeders have restrictions on when that pet is spayed or neutered.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:41)
Yes. Yeah, so we, I would say, I don't know, I think a lot of this literature has been out for almost 20 years now. This, when I first got out of school, this was a topic of conversation where we started to get data that showed when we took away sex hormones before growth plates closed. And growth plates close later in bigger dogs. So maybe for a really large breed dog, a giant breed dog, would be.

closer to like 16 months in a small breed dog, maybe it's closer to nine months. When we take away those sex hormones and we let dogs grow without those sex hormones, that growth plate closes later, causing the long bones to become longer and changing the angles of the joints. Stay with me here. And we think that causes more orthopedic disease like

cruciate tears, ACL tears, and that's really common. So we thought, okay, well, what do we need to do to lessen that risk? And to lessen that risk, we let dogs grow with their sex hormones intact. So usually that means having them go through their first heat cycle, which is anywhere from like seven months to 18 months.

JoJo (05:02)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:02)
depending

on how big the dog is. The smaller the dog, the earlier the heat cycle.

JoJo (05:07)
And for some people, that's a big ask to have a dog that goes through a heat cycle.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:08)
That is a...

Yes, because when dogs go through heat cycles, they bleed for several weeks. So two to three weeks, sometimes even four. And for some people, and for some dogs, it's not that big of a deal. But you have to keep your dog away from intact dogs. Maybe there's some behavior changes. Maybe they want to make poor life decisions.

Like run away, like pick fights with other dogs. Yes. That's right. And they feel really influenced by their hormones. And so it's, it's kind of a big deal for some people. For me, I would really struggle with that in my daily life, having a dog bleed for three weeks and having to have them wear a diaper and.

JoJo (05:35)
Like they enter their teenage years.

Dr. Angie Krause (06:00)
That would be a big ask for me. What about you? Would you do it?

JoJo (06:03)
Because the benefits for their long term are So their quality benefits for life. I feel like I could push through That struggle. Yeah, I would do one. I don't think I do much beyond that

Dr. Angie Krause (06:14)
You could do one. Yeah.

Yes. Well, now there's more and more research coming out that, I mean, it's not a ton, but there's research that maybe if we leave dogs intact longer, so if we leave the uterus and the ovaries in there, and it's mostly the ovaries, that we have less cancers. So less lymphomas, know, less hemangiocercomas.

And so that's causing people to say like, okay, I'm just going to keep my dog intact for years. And the problem with that, I mean, I get it and it makes sense. mean, we're in an age with, you know, perimenopausal and menopausal women, we're back to like putting hormones back. We're all supplementing the estrogen, the progesterone, the testosterone back in. And maybe we'll get there with animals too.

JoJo (06:58)
in.

And maybe we'll get there with animals too. So that then

this whole conversation will change again.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:10)
It will. This is, yeah, but it's,

yeah, it's going to keep changing. And so the problem is when we leave a uterus and ovaries in a dog, at some point, I usually think it's around five or six, the risk of uterine infection after a heat becomes, I want to say it's astronomical. That's not a real statistic, but as a practitioner, it feels astronomical.

because we see it and when it happens, it's catastrophic and sometimes fatal. It's a panic because it's a surgical emergency and it's not an easy surgery. Basically what happens is the uterus fills with pus and your dog can become septic, ⁓ the uterus can rupture and

JoJo (07:38)
Because you see a lot of it. We do see a lot of it.

us.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:04)
that carries a really guarded prognosis and it's a surgical emergency. So it's at least $5,000. And we see so many dogs lose their life this way, either because people can't afford it or because we can't get to them in time or our surgery isn't saving their life. And so I really hesitate to keep female dogs intact past like four or five, because it feels.

JoJo (08:28)
Yeah, once

you've seen a pyometra, it's one of my least favorite texts or emails that come through when people are describing something. And I'm just like, ⁓ no, no, no. It's just, I don't know. It's one of my least favorite. Maybe it's also because I'm female and I imagine for that dog, it's extremely uncomfortable. That's putting it mildly. It's gotta be painful.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:40)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, I mean, you're.

JoJo (08:51)
because you can't get

at it, it's inside your body.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:55)
Yeah, and you feel so sick. Like these dogs are so sick. And then we're asking them to go into surgery and then they're, can be terrible anesthetic candidates. It's, it's a mess. Yeah. And I really don't recommend keeping dogs and female dogs intact past five

JoJo (09:07)
Okay.

So if they go through one heat cycle, they're getting the benefit of allowing their growth to be as it should. Is there any benefit anywhere between that one heat cycle and the five year high?

Dr. Angie Krause (09:14)
Mm-hmm.

I think there is. I think there is benefit. I think these dogs stay leaner. They're more muscled. But the downside is that they have heat cycles every six months. They're at risk for unwanted pregnancies. They're at risk for poor decision making. And there are some social implications. Some of these dogs can't go to doggie daycare.

JoJo (09:49)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:49)
And I don't know if this is quite the same in female dogs as it is in male dogs, but an intact male dog at a dog park is like at risk for the bullying. Like neutered dogs do not want to hang out with intact dogs. They are so offended by them and they beat up on them. ⁓

JoJo (09:59)
Mm-hmm.

Well, an unspayed

female is probably going to be harassed on some level too, because she's letting out those pheromones well before we know, you know, those signals. So I would assume she's just the receiver of harassment at times as well.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:18)
I know.

I would, I don't know, yeah, I think, don't know that because there's like less intact female dogs. Yeah, I feel like.

JoJo (10:30)
Mm-hmm. Well, yeah,

it's a lot. It is a lot to ask because how many cycles will a female dog have?

Dr. Angie Krause (10:36)
It's every six months usually. Yeah. So twice a year. Generally. I mean, every dog is different, but yeah. And so then.

JoJo (10:36)
over a lifetime.

Yeah.

And the mishaps

always happen where I don't think she's been around an intact dog Or you don't know that she's in her cycle yet because she's not actively Bleeding so that it's tricky. You got to be hyper vigilant

Dr. Angie Krause (10:47)
they do.

Yeah.

And yeah,

and as we keep more male dogs intact, even in areas where dogs are under very close and tight supervision, I just think, ⁓ no, which, you know, is it the end of the world? Probably not. But for those that are trying to control the animal population or, you know, then it's definitely, they've come in contact with a male dog. might be time to.

have a spay right then and there so that there can't be any viable puppies. It's like a dog abortion. Yeah. Yeah. And so the options we have are to, like you said, you can spay at six months if you're like, hey, I don't want to deal with any of these heat cycles. I had a mom with two young kids and her small dog.

JoJo (11:35)
That's what it is.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:51)
⁓ come in the summer and her dog was four months and she's like, can I not do the first heat cycle? And I, I told her, absolutely. You don't have to do that. We can, we can spay your dog at six months. And so we did. And it was a small breed dog. And I, all of those orthopedic risks are less for that dog anyways. And so I think it's so.

JoJo (12:13)
That was what

I was gonna ask you. the longer, so they don't necessarily have to go through the heat cycle to get the benefit. It's just the longer you delay or is the heat cycle actually the benefit because there's just an, ⁓ how did we use that word twice in one episode, astronomical? I don't know. Yeah, is there just an astronomical dump of hormones that give the benefit?

Dr. Angie Krause (12:24)
now.

It's the word of the episode.

You know,

I don't think that's what it is. ⁓ I think it's just that we're allowing those growth plates to close at the time that they would have in the presence of the sex hormones.

JoJo (12:48)
Okay, so then what is your right? Okay, let's go back to the Akita. So she was at 18 months was she wanting to continue not spaying

Dr. Angie Krause (12:55)
Well, that's what the,

and this man that ⁓ was the guardian of the sequitur was so lovely. We just had the best conversation because he, he was going to rise vet in Boulder next to talk to them about their ovary sparing spay. And I think they're one of the only clinics and maybe the whole state that's doing this. Yeah.

JoJo (13:18)
Really, I thought it was

much more common than that because I've been in clinics that have been doing it. Not here in Colorado though, but it was in Oregon.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:23)
you have?

Okay, was that Rachel's clinic? Was Rachel doing it? ⁓ and ⁓ I mean, cause I don't think it doesn't make the surgery harder. I mean, it's not that big of a deal to just not take the ovaries. You just, you just leave them there. ⁓ So the idea is you take out the uterus so that you can't have a pyometri, you can't have a uterine infection. Although you can maybe.

JoJo (13:28)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:51)
still have, we call them stump pyometras, where the uterine stump is left in. Like it's just, you know, you, there's a little bit of uterine tissue that's left. And sometimes that can still become infected under the influence of estrogen. I don't see that happen very often because we always take the ovaries. And so I wonder if we'll start seeing that.

The conversation I had with this man about doing an ovary sparing spay on the Akita was that 10, 10, 15 years ago when everyone was leaving their male dogs intact, we just thought, we'll leave them intact for their whole life. But over the last five years or so, I just see testicular tumor after testicular tumor after prostatic hyperplasia, like prostate and testicular disease and cancer is

we'll just call it astronomical in these dogs. And I'm like, oh, we did not do them any favors by keeping them intact this long. And I wonder if we start leaving ovaries in dogs and they're going to continue to have the same heat cycle. Are we going to see ovarian cancer? I mean, we will. We'll see it at a bigger rate. I don't know how high of a rate.

JoJo (14:43)
haha

Dr. Angie Krause (15:06)
because I've never practiced in a time where we kept ovaries.

JoJo (15:10)
Right, so what, when someone's asking for an ovary sparing procedure, what are they hoping to gain? Just the continuation of sex hormones.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:19)
Yes. It's kind of like, you know, without the risk of pregnancy and the pyometra and that uterine infection that we were talking about. And so they want to benefit from that estrogen, which is understandable. I mean, we're all replacing our estrogen as we lose it, as our ovaries are failing. And so I think it makes sense.

JoJo (15:22)
without the risk of pregnancy.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:45)
I just can't guarantee that it's the right thing socially for a dog. Now this dog loves daycare. And for an 18 month old Akita, I think daycare is really important. And so I think that they should either do an ovary sparing spay or spay this dog to keep the dog in daycare because I think we really, a holistic general practitioner, my

dog's mental health, my patient's mental health, it's really important to me. It's, yeah, and like how they're, yes, it's a quality of life issue. And I think that ⁓ keeping them home from daycare, and when I say daycare, I mean, they're just basically having social time with their friends. It's like school, keeping them home. I mean, it's their play dates, keeping them home just doesn't, I don't think it makes sense for their overwhelming.

JoJo (16:15)
Yeah, I agree. Quality of life.

All right, play dates.

Okay, so your recommendation

is ideally one heat cycle if you can.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:40)
if you can.

I think it's so individual and that's what we talked about. ⁓ I told him, I was like, why don't we take it one heat cycle at a time and see where you are, see where she is socially, ⁓ see how the heat cycles are. Some dogs really struggle like people with their heat cycles and we can just make them stop. And I told him, if we do an ovary sparing spay, at some point we should consider going and getting those ovaries.

JoJo (17:06)
That's what I was gonna ask you, could he further down the line than just go in and have the ovaries removed? mean, sadly, that's a second surgical anesthetic procedure, but fairly simple. I hate using that word for surgery, but in terms of surgery, fairly simple. Okay, options. I love that people have options and that there is discussion that can be had. And I like your approach that each.

Dr. Angie Krause (17:18)
Fairly simple. Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

JoJo (17:32)
Each one is individual to the household and their needs and the dog's needs and they can pivot at any point.

Dr. Angie Krause (17:37)
Yes, exactly. But I told him by five, the uterus has to come out. Yeah.

JoJo (17:41)
Fair, okay.

That seems super, super clear. Is there anything you wanna throw in about our feline friends and spays

Dr. Angie Krause (17:48)
Well yeah, let's talk about.

JoJo (17:50)
Yeah. Yay.

⁓

Dr. Angie Krause (17:53)
When I think about leaving a female cat intact and living with their heat cycles, which come all the time.

JoJo (18:00)
⁓ that's what I thought about too. At the very beginning

when you said it, was like, that's a very different situation.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:07)
Yeah, no one's gonna live like that. And the cat shouldn't have to live like that. They're so uncomfortable. Okay, so for those of you listening that have never seen an intact female cat in heat, they are beside themselves for days, weeks, and they are very vocal and their, agitation is just next level. Dogs,

JoJo (18:33)
There's

a desperation to them. Ugh, it's a bad look for females.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:33)
Do not do this. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah.

do

you female cats, just no one's going to leave them intact unless the breeder probably would. And I don't know how they live with that, but no, no one's going to do that. So I feel like it's kind of a non-issue.

JoJo (18:53)
Okay, let's move on to the male counterparts, the canines.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:58)
Okay, testicles, when do we take them? This one's so much easier to talk about because dogs do better when they have their testicles for a while. I mean, I would say if you want to leave your dog intact, you are increasing the risk of testicular cancer later. Usually it's later, but I mean, if you could leave those testicles for three quarters of their life,

JoJo (19:00)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:23)
that has a lot of benefit. Your dog is going to be leaner. They're going to have more muscle. There's no data to support that they have more behavioral problems or they're more aggressive. We just don't have the data to support it. Now, anecdotally, people will keep their dogs intact. too, they're like, I just can't handle this and I'm going to neuter them. And they feel like they see some difference in behavior. ⁓ Probably a lot of that's so dependent on

JoJo (19:33)
I was gonna ask that.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:51)
the breed and the dog, the individual dog, but we don't have any data to support that by neutering them. We have less behavior issues. In fact, like I said earlier in the episode, we know when we neuter them before six months, we see more behavior issues.

JoJo (19:52)
Hmm.

Okay, so a behavior issue that I hear about a lot when a dog is intact is humping. But I feel like I see that in all dogs. Male, female, intact, not intact. So I doubt that has anything to do with their testosterone.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:13)
In all dogs, yes.

I know, and I-

which feels counterintuitive. It feels like having testosterone there would make dogs hump more, but we don't find the data to support it. And when dogs are humpers and when we take away their testosterone, a lot of times they stay humbers. It's super disappointing.

JoJo (20:22)
Mm-hmm.

They stay humpers, some of them aggressive humpers.

It's just, it's yeah. Okay, so keep going.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:42)
Yeah, that's a thing.

Okay, so we just have to find out when we're gonna neuter them. And we can do that immediately, it's six months, some people are like, I just need to do this so that my dog cannot interact with an intact female dog and that's okay. Or if the dog is getting bullied at the dog park, can't go to daycare, then I would recommend neutering them. so.

JoJo (21:10)
What is

your theory behind that? Why? What is happening to other dogs know that this dog is intact and different?

Dr. Angie Krause (21:16)
I think they can smell it. I don't know why neutered dogs are so insecure about being neutered and why they have to be aggressive towards the intact dogs. I don't know, maybe it's just more male behavior, JoJo.

JoJo (21:18)
I think it's the smell.

Mm.

I don't know you wanna talk about male behavior and neutered dogs. For those, we do see this and this is not a shame fest, it's just a thing that happens that oftentimes the male gendered human will come into practice and not want to neuter his dog because he's afraid his dog will miss his nuts. True, like he's really like somehow, anthropomorphic.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:31)
You

haha

JoJo (21:53)
anthro, I know when I say it, doesn't sound right, anthropomorphous, meaning putting our human emotions onto another species.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:54)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Dogs don't have toxic masculinity. I'm just going to say.

JoJo (22:07)
Although we kind of just

said they kind of do at the dog park.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:10)
Well,

I guess the neutered ones. ⁓

JoJo (22:13)
Right.

Yeah, it's not likely your dog's going to miss his testicles.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:19)
No, they don't. They're not attached like that. Yeah, I know people really worry about emasculating their dog and they just don't have to.

JoJo (22:22)
Mm-mm.

Yeah, it's a conversation

that happens more than I would like to admit.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:33)
Yes. And you know, when show dogs, when their crypt orchid, meaning one of their testicles did not descend, but we have to go and get it, but they're still want to be in the show ring, which I feel like this, I don't know if this is even allowed, but you can put in what's called a neutical which is a fake testicle. I'm assuming they probably do this for people too. I don't really know. Right? Don't you think this started in people and then just came to the animals?

JoJo (22:55)
⁓ I'm sure.

Well, I was

looking at it because I knew we were gonna do this episode. I'm like, didn't we used to have these neuticals I couldn't believe I even remembered the name, so it must have been a thing, and it started in the 90s.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:07)
neutical

Yeah, I've not seen a neutical in practice ever, but...

JoJo (23:17)
and they come in like seven,

no, 11 sizes, right, for your toy breed to your Danes. ⁓ Or, I mean, who's choosing the, it's just all of this. Would you ever do this?

Dr. Angie Krause (23:25)
so everyone can see their testicles.

I don't know.

No. No. No, I certainly would.

JoJo (23:34)
Yeah, it

reminds me of men who drive big trucks with the sacks hanging off the back. It's just a flex.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:40)
That's probably right. But they...

It's like, get my dog in the show ring.

JoJo (23:46)
It's a flex that is not effective. I guarantee you the girl dogs at the dog park are not like,

you have size eight neuticles. Right? It's just not going to be a thing.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:58)
Yeah, I wonder how much those cost.

JoJo (24:00)
⁓ in the 90s they were $700.

Dr. Angie Krause (24:02)
my gosh.

I wonder surgically, have you ever watched anyone put one in? Okay, because I'm wondering like how you.

JoJo (24:07)
No, I just know we had conversations

about them with the men who were like, please don't take my dog's testicles. Well, here's your options.

Dr. Angie Krause (24:15)
Now we can replace them with nudicles. ⁓

JoJo (24:18)
I wonder

if those have their own set of foreign body issues like breast implants do in humans.

Dr. Angie Krause (24:24)
Yeah,

maybe. I don't know what they're made of. I've never seen one. I've never had to do a reverse neuter where I a neutical back into the... Okay.

JoJo (24:34)
Yeah. Okay, we'll get off the topic of that. But that does happen.

And but there are options now in the vasectomy.

Dr. Angie Krause (24:44)
Yes.

So now practitioners, and I don't know, can you do a vasectomy at rise? Is Andrew doing?

JoJo (24:50)
No, I

don't know. I don't have many people ask.

Dr. Angie Krause (24:53)
Okay, but is he offering them?

JoJo (24:54)
I don't know and I don't know that every veterinarian at RISE is doing the ovary sparing. I think it might just be one, maybe two. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (25:01)
It's just Andrew. Dr. Boal

I should call him by his formal name. Yeah. Andrew Boal We really love him. So we can do vasectomies in dogs. I don't know how many veterinarians do them. And that's valid. You your dog can't cause unwanted pregnancy, ⁓ but we're still at a high risk for testicular cancer later in life.

JoJo (25:06)
yes.

Dr. Angie Krause (25:29)
And so I think just like with the ovary, sparing, and spay, at some point you want to go back and get those gonads, get the ovaries, get the testicles. And so if you're okay with doing two different procedures, that is an option.

JoJo (25:38)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. It's testicular cancer though, easy in terms of its invasiveness. So if somebody were to find it, you just take the testicles then.

Dr. Angie Krause (25:55)
No, I mean, it, the last two that I found probably in the last three months, not only so it invaded the whole testicle, but then it ascended the scrotum to the body wall. And they can be quite difficult. So we had, so one of them, had to have a surgeon come in and do, because it wasn't, it was going to be difficult. And the surgeon did get it all in that case, but then I saw another one.

JoJo (26:06)
Hmm.

Okay.

Dr. Angie Krause (26:21)
where it was like it had invaded the body wall and I don't know that we were ever going to get all that cancer out.

JoJo (26:31)
Okay, I mean, so it sounds like people have a lot of options. There should always be a dialogue with your veterinarian. A lot of plays in the queue, like what's your lifestyle? What's your dog's behaviors? What do you value? Where are your values in terms of longevity, quality of life, multiple surgeries? There's a lot to think ⁓ about.

Dr. Angie Krause (26:35)
Yes.

Yes.

There's a lot to think about. Yes. And I think it's all okay. And I'm going to end the episode with the thought that we can do everything we can to make our dogs the healthiest and live the longest. However, sometimes we cannot win against genetic forces. So if you have a golden retriever and you think I'm going to keep my dog intact and then

because I keep my dog intact, they're not going to get cancer. That's a little bit of a losing battle. And I hate to say that it's just that maybe can you lessen the risk? Maybe. And I think at the end of the day, there's just some acceptance that there's probably not any single decision that you're going to make that will necessarily change the outcome. And so enjoy life, let your dog enjoy life. And if that means

neutering them so they can go to daycare, do it. And if that means I don't want to have a heat cycle every six months, I'm going to enjoy my life and we're going to have a better time together. Spay your dog and it's okay.

JoJo (27:58)
Great, think that's good advice. Okay, any, we didn't talk about our male cats. you have anything to throw in about male cats?

Dr. Angie Krause (28:00)
Yes.

Okay. ⁓ yes.

Okay. So I have seen two male cats that were kept intact inside that did really well. Did you see there was the one that we used to make house calls to? Did you ever come with me to the?

JoJo (28:17)
Yeah,

I don't remember this kitty's name. But yes. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (28:19)
Yes, but like he was so lovely. He was very svelte

too, cause he had testosterone. ⁓ So he wasn't, you know, usually our indoor kitties, like they gain weight because we take away their sex hormones and then feed them and they stay inside. Now this cat did not go outside. I don't know that you can't have a male cat that goes outside and keep them intact. That's not on. So this cat stayed inside and I mean, he did quite well. So that's my...

JoJo (28:41)
Nope. No.

Yeah, and what

you hear about there is marking. And I don't think he had a marking issue.

Dr. Angie Krause (28:50)
Yeah, but he didn't.

No. He was lovely.

JoJo (28:53)
So again,

to each their own, like you evaluate your pet's situation uniquely. You might not always make the same choice.

Dr. Angie Krause (28:59)
Mm-hmm.

Right. And that's okay. And you can take it one year at a time.

JoJo (29:05)
One year at a time, I love that. Easy enough.

Dr. Angie Krause (29:07)
Yes.

Yes. So if you would like to learn more about this topic or any other topic, you can check out our website. We just moved platforms and launched a new website, boulderholisticvet.com. And you can get any of our courses for free just because you listened to this podcast. What is the code JoJo?

JoJo (29:29)
you truth tales and tails can be spelled T-A-I-L-S or T-A-L-E-S and that will get you a free course in which I just thought Angie this would make a good course.

Dr. Angie Krause (29:40)
cause there's so much more. Like we've been talking for 34 minutes and there's still more to talk about. Yeah.

JoJo (29:44)
Yeah, think people

probably would have a lot of questions.

Dr. Angie Krause (29:48)
Yeah. Okay, let's do it. We'll make a course. Okay, see you next time. We love it if you leave a comment and subscribe. It helps us out. Even if it's negative. Tell us what you think. See you next time. Bye.

JoJo (29:50)
Yeah. Okay.

Okay, bye bye.