Episode 13 - Leading Through Change: A Conversation With JMU Interim Provost Bob Kolvoord

Welcome back to the CFI Faculty Lounge Podcast, where we explore the experiences, challenges, and strategies of dedicated educators. In this episode, host Eric Magrum sits down with Dr. Bob Kolvoord, JMU’s Interim Provost, to discuss how the university—and higher education more broadly—is evolving in response to emerging technologies and shifting student needs. 

Dr. Kolvoord shares insights on: 

• The ethical use of AI in teaching and learning 
• How education continues to evolve at JMU 
• Creating an environment where faculty can thrive 

Tune in for this thoughtful conversation on leadership, innovation, and the future of teaching at JMU. 

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Transcript

The thing that's been great about JMU for me is every time I feel like I'm ready for change, there's a new opportunity. One of the things folks should know about me is I'm very curious, I love to learn, and I love to make connections between things that I wasn't aware were connected. It's not easy to be a faculty member today.

There's a lot coming at you in hopes of a powerful thing, because we are an institution on the rise.

Welcome to the CFI Faculty Lounge Podcast, an outlet created for continuous learning and actual insights for faculty. I'm your host, Eric Magrum, inviting you to join us in conversation with dedicated educators who share their experiences, challenges, and effective solutions. Today, I'm excited to welcome Bob Kolvoord, Interim Provost and Senior Vice President for Academic Affairs Division here at James Madison University.

Welcome, Bob, and thank you for being here with us today.

Thanks, Eric. It's a pleasure.

So could you reflect on your journey as an educator and highlight one or two moments that were especially meaningful for you?

I'd be delighted. And there's an additional part of my title that you didn't say, which is I'm also a professor in the School of Integrated Sciences. And I think that that bears on this particular question.

I'll give you two things actually somewhat spread out in time. One thing that was especially meaningful for me was my first day of class at JMU. I came on campus at a time when we were rapidly expanding and my classroom was a double-wide trailer.

And it was up in this cluster of things that was up above the convo. We had an old portable building from IBM where our offices and our labs were. This was the very early days of the College of Integrated Science and Technology.

And I remember my very first day walking into that double-wide, seeing my class of students. I was teaching an applied math class called Analytical Methods. And it was the realization of a dream.

I had been a researcher at the University of Arizona and I thought I need to have my own classroom. I had been doing some work in and around teaching. And I had been a teacher most of my life.

Various summer jobs. I was a substitute teacher during my college years when I would come home on vacation. So this was sort of a culmination of a dream to actually get to step into a classroom on my first day as a very wet-behind-the-ears assistant professor was particularly meaningful.

The other piece, and we'll probably talk a little bit more about this later in the podcast, I am the co-creator of something called the Geospatial Semester. And the Geospatial Semester is a dual enrollment program that we do with schools around Virginia where high school students learn about geospatial technologies, the technologies we use to make maps, and then apply them to problems that they're interested in. And we've been running this for 20 years.

But we had a group of students go and present at a national conference in front of almost 20,000 people. And I got to sit in almost the front row and watch these students do just an amazing job sharing the work that they had done amidst professionals and to a group of like-minded folks. And it was a highlight.

And so the time course between those two points was?

That was a decade plus. Wow. Yeah, probably 15 years between those two time periods.

Can you talk a little bit about when you first walked into that double wide?

I was excited. I was a little bit trepidatious. It was material that I was quite comfortable with, but it's always the question of, well, how the students are going to connect with you?

Are you going to find a place where you can challenge them, but they can both work hard and enjoy the ride? And I was fortunate to find that place. I think that's one of the things that's kept me here at JMU, that I really enjoy our students.

And I enjoyed that first group of students, and I've really enjoyed every group of students since then.

And I think that the connection piece that you mentioned is, I think it's what makes JMU really unique, at least in my estimation. There's a lot of connection between faculty and students.

I agree, very much so.

What do you wish faculty knew about you?

Oh, that's a great question. There are some things that, well, at least those that go to the opening faculty meeting have figured out. I am from Vermont, and that is an important part of my identity.

I like to exercise. So I'm often seen around U-rec or I still get to play hockey, which has been a passion since I was a boy. This may come as a surprise to some.

I really like the performing arts. I am a STEM guy, unapologetically, live in the science, technology and engineering world, but I've always found the arts really interesting. I like to read, particularly speculative fiction and science fiction, not surprisingly.

What else is there to know about me? I have three kids, one of which is a JMU grad, and they have spread out across the country. Interestingly, for a while, all three of my kids lived west of the Mississippi, although we did have one move back more recently.

I'm also in a job that I feel privileged to hold, serving as the interim provost, and I'm really enjoying it. I was ready for change. The thing that's been great about JMU for me is every time I feel like I'm ready for change, there's a new opportunity.

And so I've been able to do a number of different things during my now almost 31 years here. And each and every one of them has been stimulating in its own way.

So I want to double click on something. You said your identity as someone who grew up in Vermont.

Yes.

Can you speak a little bit about that? Because I don't think I quite or the listeners quite understand that.

Sure. So what I mean by that is I have a Yankee sensibility, not in the sense of the New Yorker Yankees, but in the sense of I am loath to crow about my own achievements. If in New England, if you are doing something very well, it's not up to you to brag about it.

It's to other people to notice it and remark upon it. So I think that's very much in the JMU ethos, which is actually a little bit of a problem for us because I don't think we actually brag enough about the great things that we do. But that's a part of who I am, just on the basis of where I grew up.

Now, the state slogan for Vermont is, is it something like live free or die?

No, that's New Hampshire.

Okay, okay, sorry.

Yes.

My apologies.

No, it's okay. It's easy enough. They are right next to each other.

And in fact, my grandfather lived in New Hampshire for many, many years and I spent a lot of time there. But no, for Vermonters have a little different view of the world. Vermont was an independent nation before it became the 14th state.

Vermont was the next one in after the original 13. And so there is a little bit of that kind of independent mindset up there. It's also not a very high population state and it has a little bit of a scrappy aspect to it.

I'm assuming an appreciation for the outdoors because of where it's located.

Very much so. Very much so. Although interestingly, if you spent any time in Vermont, the Shenandoah Valley looks very similar.

My wife and I visited Acadia National Park, which I know is not in the same, but it's in the same general area. And we actually said something similar, particularly because we went around this time and it again, in both beautiful places.

Indeed.

You also talked about enjoying your current role as the provost. Can you speak a little bit about that?

Yeah. So I'm a systems thinker. And serving the provost role, you have to figure out how all the parts fit together and how they work well together.

And so it involves processing a lot of information. It involves getting to know lots of different things. So one of the things folks should know about me is I'm very curious.

I love to learn and I love to make connections between things that I wasn't aware were connected in some fashion or another. I also, one of my core values is showing up. I have believed that from very early on.

And as the provost, I get a chance to show up at all kinds of interesting things, at student events, at faculty events. I get to work with alums. I get to work with government officials.

And so I found it really stimulating. And we're at an institution that's really making some good things happen at a troubling, challenging time. Well, not troubling, but at a challenging time.

Well, maybe troubling for higher ed. And so there is some feeling of satisfaction to help us continue to grow, to prosper, to be regarded and recognized for the great things that our faculty and students are doing. And there's great things happening all across our campus.

When you say show up, I am assuming part of that is the physical, but is there another element to that?

That manifests itself in a couple of ways. There is the sort of supportive piece, but that comes in actually physically being there. And folks notice when the provost shows up.

Absolutely.

And I think it's important for the provost to show up. And so I make it a point. Sometimes it makes the day a little bit crowded.

But I always find I'm learning really interesting things. So I can give you, for instance, last Friday, the Somos Latinos in Leadership Conference was held at JMU. It was held in the festival.

And we had former Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez, who was being interviewed by JMU alum Jim Acosta. It was a spellbinding hour. It was absolutely fascinating to hear about Gonzalez story, to hear his view on current events, to think about it as he was an official in a prior Republican administration.

And it was compelling stuff. And I really felt privileged to be able to be in the room and listen to this.

Wonderful. So speaking about faculty, what's one lesson you've learned from faculty that has shaped your leadership approach?

I've learned that there are at least two sides to every story and that a leader needs to have some patience and listen and learn before taking action. What I found when I was a more novice leader, when I was new to the roles, is I would have this predisposition towards action. So I'd hear one side of the story, I'd figure I knew what was going on, I'd have a solution and I would try and implement it.

And then I would discover that there was more going on, whether it was faculty having an issue with another faculty member, a student having an issue with another faculty member, a student having an issue with a faculty member. So listening has been a pretty critical element to that for me. I also very much watch and learn from other people, particularly leaders or especially effective faculty members.

So I will watch our unit heads or our deans that are particularly effective in their interactions and I will learn and sometimes shamelessly copy.

Because leadership is a journey, it's not a destination. And so I think you have to continue to build your skill set, you have to continue to learn and also hopefully grow in the role. And when you stop doing that, it's time to think about doing something different.

Yeah, so it sounds like a lot of what you're talking about is behavior modeling and seeing the effective behaviors of leaders and then copying those behaviors. Is that correct?

Yeah, yeah, part of it.

Yeah. And so one of the things that at your opening address, I believe it was the new student convocation, you talked about walking around campus and picking up a piece of trash.

Yeah.

Can you speak a little bit more to that? Because I thought it was so cool.

Well, if you follow me around campus, I do that most every day. Unfortunately, a little more trash than we might care for. I think our place is really important.

And I think we have a building and grounds crew that spends a huge amount of effort taking care of our place. And we are, I think we're better at our jobs because we live in this beautiful place and a set of facilities that are well cared for. I mean, go around to other schools and you see facilities that are really not cared for in the same way that ours are.

So it feels to me like I am just in a very small way helping them, validating their efforts, if you will. But also, just trying to do my part in keeping the place up and keeping it nice so that we all can continue to enjoy it.

Yeah, I think anytime we can just give one little piece and keep JMU beautiful, because it is an absolutely gorgeous campus, I think that goes a long way for a sense of ownership over the university.

Yeah, I completely agree. And I think a sense of participation in it, and that's what I was encouraging the students to do.

I really appreciated that sort of call to action, and that's something that I've been trying to implement more and more in my day to day.

Much appreciated.

To date, what's the biggest change you've seen in higher education, and what has or might JMU do to meet those challenges?

I got three.

Okay.

So, and I'll keep it brief. I think top of the list is student mental health. I will say, thinking back across the three decades that I've been here, that change is perhaps the starkest in terms of day to day work of faculty, that our students are coming with a different set of expectations, they are coming with a different set of needs, and I think we are challenged to figure out how to adapt to that.

And I think just saying, well, you know, toughen up, buttercup, this is what it was like when I was a student, and the world has changed. And I think trying to understand that, to have, to continue to have high expectations, but to understand how to be compassionate in those expectations and meet them where they are, because they are remarkably bright. They are no less bright than they ever were.

But they come with a little different set of coping equipment than perhaps we had. And I think part of our task here, part of our responsibility really, is to help them build a better set of coping skills so that they're going to be able to be educated and enlightened citizens who will lead productive and meaningful lives. Okay, that was one.

Yeah, that was one.

Two, and I wouldn't have expected this when I started, but we're in a shrinking industry right now. Higher education in the US is shrinking. We've lost a number of schools.

I think we're going to lose a number more over the next decade. And that's coming from a few reasons. One is there are fewer of the traditional age college students to go around.

The financial models are also proving to be challenging. We are a very people-centered business. Well, people-centered association.

Right, we're not a business, but business principles apply. And in academic affairs, 80% of our budget goes to our people. So trying to understand how that works, how that we can continue to make higher-ed affordable, particularly to those of limited means, continues to be a real challenge.

And I think as you look around, even in Virginia, I mean, some of our sister public schools are struggling for enrollment right now. We are in a very privileged position to not be here, and I really all credit to Melinda Wood and her crew and Access and Enrollment Management for continuing to bring us really good students in the numbers that we need. And in fact, she's become, we've become more selective over the last couple of years.

We're admitting a lower percentage of our applicants, even while our applicant pool continues to grow. So that's actually really kind of remarkable in the landscape of higher-ed.

Yeah, it seems like higher-ed is sort of, as you just said, it's getting more and more competitive, yet JMU seems to be doing rather well in that competitive environment.

We're working at it.

Yeah.

We're working at it. And the third element, and this ties in a little bit, I think, to the shrinking industry part, the public in the US has a growing degree of disaffection with higher-ed. I think they are not completely buying what we're selling.

Again, pardon for the business analogy, but I think they're not everyone is seeing the value that we all see in it. And I think we need to think about that because part of that's on us, because in part, we communicate about what we do, and I think we need to think about how we are sharing both the opportunities for students to grow and develop, but also to have the opportunity for a better life when they're done. And for most students, almost all students, that includes a job.

And so understanding how we can position our students, again, educated and enlightened, but also productive and meaningful.

So I might ask a question. So if I'm the listener and I'm thinking, okay, when he's saying that, that disaffection, is it coming from a, hey, why aren't students getting jobs? Or is that kind of where the public you believe is?

I think the public is saying, is this worth the money?

Okay.

Is this worth the money? And I think it's a legitimate question, right? Higher ed is one of the most expensive things, second only to a house, that someone might, might spend their money on in a lifetime.

And I think, now I will say in Virginia, we are doing better than much of the rest of the country. The recent polls and surveys are suggesting that Virginians still see a lot of value in higher ed. And I think we've made the case in Virginia, in fact, I'm going to a conference tomorrow, the Virginia Business Higher Ed Conference, where we talk a lot about higher ed and the connections with business and industry.

You know, our challenge is, and I think, and particularly in some of the areas that I've taught in, well, we struggle with this idea that we're not a vocational school, right? You don't come here to learn a trade. But yet, you still need to have a set of skills that's going to help you be able to find a place in the workforce and to prosper.

And so finding a way to balance that dynamic tension, because I often say it, that we're not only educating you for your first job, but also your second career. And so to give our students some degree of resilience and the ability to continue to be lifelong learners, to take that skill set they have and find different ways to apply it as the world around us evolves. And it continues to evolve.

AI is a driver, and that's something I've been really involved in on campus. I've been kind of pushing us for the last two and a half years to be thinking more about the impact of AI and also the appropriate and ethical use of AI. And I think there's some really interesting experiments going on across a lot of campus, and I think we're going to be in a good position.

We didn't get caught up in just chasing AI for cheating. That's a rabbit hole that a bunch of schools fell down into. And the reality is there's no tool right now that gives you reliable evidence of cheating.

There are things that suggest there's cheating. But it sort of takes the onus off the faculty member to say, OK, the technology has changed a little bit. But how am I going to change my instruction?

How am I going to change the assessments to attend to the fact that students have a different set of tools? And by the way, cheating is not new, right? It's just a different way to do it now.

I think cheating has a very long history.

So I've heard AI liken to the calculator. When the calculator came out, or even when Google came out. Now, I'm much too young to understand, really, the intricacies of either of those two.

But how does it...

I'm not.

How does it compare to those?

I have been calling AI the calculator moment for writing instruction. OK. So I was in middle school when hand calculators really started to become more affordable.

And people started to think about how they might be used in mathematics instruction. And there was a lot of hand ringing about essentially, you know, this is going to destroy math instruction. Our students become math illiterate.

And what happened is math instruction changed. So the math instruction that my kids got, having graphing calculators and these available, is different from what I had. There's some things I can do that they can't do.

Long division, use a slide rule. That's fine. You know, the world has changed.

And I think that the challenge for me, the challenge for me on the AI front, is we teach writing not only to push nouns and verbs around sentences, but we also use writing to teach critical thinking. And I worry about that part of it, because how, if in fact students are going to use AI to do more writing for them, how are we going to teach those critical thinking skills that we typically teach in writing essays and other kinds of pieces. So, and I know that our folks in SCOM, WRTC, English department, they're all thinking about this.

And I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do, and also our College of Ed, because of course, you know, it all starts in K-12, and the experiences they have in K-12 inform the students and inform what we do. So, I'm really thrilled that there's a lot of interest over in the College of Ed, and a lot of good thinking going on, a lot of interesting projects happening.

Yeah, it can be scary, but actually, I'm quite excited to see where AI takes us, and how we adapt, and how instruction adapts.

Yeah, I am too. I will say, it feels like we're in maximum hype cycle right now, and I really like to come down off that mountain, and then we'll have a little less heat and a little more light, and I'm really interested in the adaptive instruction piece. I think for areas that are really skills-based, the opportunity to have personalized adaptive instruction that's then mediated by a faculty member really lets a faculty member be able to personalize things in a way that's just, you know, if you're teaching a math class with 30 students, that's limited as a, for instance, our language class with 24, whatever it is.

So I think there are going to be ways where it's going to be a force multiplier for us. But we got a little ways to get there yet.

Is there a, it sounds like you were working towards a specific example of the way in which that would be used. Could you, would you care to expound on that?

Well, it's more in my imagination than anything else right now. It's nothing under development. But the whole idea is that you can use AI to basically assess wherever you are with, so let's say you're learning algebra.

It can provide a number of examples to assess where you are, and then it can feed you back instruction or additional examples to help you build skills where it's identified that you're weak. And this can happen quite quickly. Now, instructors do this too, but they aren't able to work individually with every member of a class in 50 minutes.

And so I think that's where there's some opportunities, and then it would allow the instructor to say, okay, I've got three or four students that are at this level. Okay, I'm going to gather with them and work with them. I've got three or four others that are a little more advanced level, I can let them be for a little bit.

And so I think it's starting, my sense of the evolution of higher ed is that, Moses didn't bring down 15 credit hours, 15 weeks a semester, 50 minute class periods. We invented that. So what if things were more focused on outcomes?

There's no sense that seat time is the greatest arbiter of how much somebody's learned, it's just how we keep track, because it's easy, part because it's easy, right? AI may allow us to keep track in some ways that have been harder in the past, but that may actually lead to better student outcomes. And I think those are the questions to ask.

Yeah, my mind is just swirling with ideas, but also again, with the idea that the 15 week or the 16 week semester, et cetera, might be altered essentially with AI because of the student outcomes. That's fascinating. It's fascinating.

So switching gears to a little bit more personal, if you will, what are you most proud of throughout your time at JMU?

Well, I seem to be stuck on Trinity's today, so I'm going to give you three things. I'm proud that I've played a small part in helping JMU to get from where we were in 1995 to where we are today. And I think all of us that have been a part of that journey share in that pride of helping to build an institution that's now 23,000 students large, more than 1,100 faculty, that is doing amazing work in the community, that is producing fascinating scholarship and creative activity.

It's pretty cool to be a part of something like this and to have seen the arc of it over time and to feel like it played a small role.

So can I pause you right there?

You bet.

So, as somebody who recently joined, I am seeing my arc is, I'm in my fourth year here, so my arc is very, it's just a snapshot of that. Can you, in like 30 seconds, maybe, could you walk us through that arc from 95 to right now?

Yeah, so 95, when I joined, we were 13,500 in terms of the number of students. We didn't have any doctoral programs. We had a limited number of masters programs.

We had facilities of all kinds, academic, student affairs, athletic, that were okay, but were dated. And now we come to the campus of 2025, and you look at the facilities that we have in all of those areas. You look at robust enrollments.

You look at faculty searches that have these great candidates coming in and the faculty that we've hired in the last... Well, I mean, the faculty we've hired the whole time, but the last five years have really been tremendous. And you all are going to take us the next 25 years.

And so that's part of what we do as faculty members here, is we build for the future. We both help our students build for the future, but we also help the institution build for the future. And then we play our small role in helping to move things forward.

Thank you for that. Your next point you are going to.

I have been fortunate to be part of a number of curriculum development projects. I came in very early on in the Integrated Science and Technology program. I got to play a role in the Masters of Educational Technology, got to play a role in the Intelligence Analysis curriculum being born.

I was involved in a major revision of the Geography curriculum. I also was a part of both the development of the original ISAT Masters program, as well as our joint degree with the University of Malta in Environmental Management. And that's been really stimulating work.

I am cut from an interdisciplinary cloth. I guess I should have said that earlier. My training is interdisciplinary.

My three degrees are all in slightly different areas. And I just get a lot of energy and excitement from looking at the connection points between disciplines. I think the interesting stuff happens at the boundaries.

And so I like to live on the boundaries. And then the last piece for me was the geospatial semester that I mentioned before. So this is this dual enrollment program that we talked about.

We've had more than 8,000 students participate in that over the now, this is the 21st year that we've done it. And we've been able to do, and I was able to collaborate with researchers here and elsewhere, to be able to demonstrate the impact of, on students' spatial thinking and cognitive ability by the use of these technologies. So on the faculty members, are both teachers and scholars.

So on the scholarly side, this has been a real point of excitement and pride for me. And it continues to go strong. We had our biggest year ever last year, more than 1,000 students did it last year.

That's a piece that I'm...

Yeah, that's absolutely fascinating. Now, when you say geospatial technology, Chris, so can you, for listeners that... Because I don't have the foggiest idea.

Can you give the listeners a little...

You bet. So geospatial technologies typically consist of three elements. One is remote sensing, so think satellite images, and all of the data that we can take either from space or from airplanes and the like.

The other is GPS, so this idea that you know exactly where you are on the surface of the earth. Of course, we all have GPS units in our pockets now, because our phones allow us to know exactly where we are and to navigate. Then the third element is a software package called GIS, which stands for Geographic Information Systems.

It's basically an opportunity to make maps with computers. Those three things together, it turns out that it's an almost ubiquitous technology. It's everywhere across disciplines and industries, but it's kind of hidden in plain sight.

You don't think about it, right? You just get the map app out, and I'm going from here to the nearest sheets, and you don't think about what's underneath it. Anybody that's ever looked at a red state, blue state map during an election, that's GIS.

Wow.

I guess my mind goes back to the buying the standalone GPS units and putting them in your car, to now, your phone wirelessly syncs up to the console on your...

It's all integrated.

Yeah. It's just been mind-boggling how quickly that technology is going.

The thing that's been particularly cool about the geospatial semesters, we started it in the midst of Virginia being in the SOL era, the standards of learning, the high-stakes testing era. And we recognize that students were not buying into that fully. They did it because they had to.

In the geospatial semester, the students get to choose the subjects of their projects. They have to do a final project. It's been absolutely fascinating to see once students learn these technologies, what they do with them.

They look at social determinants of health. They look at food deserts. They look at renewable energy.

They look at traffic around their schools and a wide sweep of things everywhere in between, including, I will have to say, I've seen this project a number of times, where to put the 32nd NFL team. I'm a little tired of that one. But it's been interesting.

In fact, some students have actually digitized video from their own athletic events and used GIS to analyze it. So to look at passing patterns in soccer or attack patterns in an opposing team's volleyball striker.

Wow.

It's really amazing once you open the door to students, and in fact, it's led a bunch of them to JMU. In fact, our geography program is one of the largest in the eastern half of the US, and between 15% and 20% of the geography majors come out of the geospatial semester. And it also opens up a whole new career path, because there are all manner of careers that, if you know something about this technology, you can get into.

Wow.

That's my side hustle.

Yeah, that's awesome. We could go off on a big tangent there, but I will refrain. So, speaking of faculty and your role as a faculty member and now moving into this role, what do you see as the biggest challenges facing faculty today?

It's not easy to be a faculty member today. There's a lot coming at you. And we're also an institution in transition.

We have gone from being a comprehensive university to now we're identified as an R2 national research university. What does that mean for faculty work? And I think we're trying to understand what that is.

We're trying to figure out the evolution of JMU into this national space. We've always had national ambitions. We've always thought that the work that we were doing really put us up with the folks that are doing great work across the country.

So I think this is the place that we want to be. But understanding exactly what that means, that's been a challenge. And I think it's a challenge we're going to continue to work through.

One thing that we've been very fortunate at JMU is we've had very stable leadership at the top. But we now have a new president for the first time in a dozen, well, interim president King aside, you know, for the first time in a dozen years. I mean, I've been here 31 and I've served with four permanent presidents.

There are some folks that have been at schools for five years and they've served with four permanent presidents. So I think that stability really sets a foundation for faculty to be able to build. We talked earlier about the differences in students and I think faculty are needing to understand that perhaps there's some different things that they're needing to do to support students than we might have done 25 or 30 years ago.

So it is a challenging time. It is also a time though, I think, working at JMU at least, that there's hope and hope is a powerful thing. Because we are an institution on the rise, we have solid enrollments, we've got good finances, we've got an inspiring new leader.

That there's really a sense of opportunity here that when I talk with colleagues at other places some folks have lost hope. And that's a hard place to be.

I can't imagine being in a place where I've lost the sense of hope. That sounds not too pleasant.

No, I don't think so.

So, when you think more about faculty, particularly with regard to the mindset around fostering a culture of belonging and psychological safety, what do you think about?

I think about that a fair bit in serving as the interim provost. I think because we've had some challenges, I think, over the last few years. And I think a key element in this for me is trust.

That folks have trust in their leaders, that they will act rationally, that they will look out for the institution's best interests, and that there's predictable behavior and consequences for different actions. And as well, a key element for faculty or the colleagues around you, that is perhaps the most important element. And to make sure that we're continuing to hire folks for whom JMU is a good fit, that they are supportive, that they build the units that they're a part of, that they're able to augment the teaching and the scholarship and the opportunities for students.

You know, from the Provost Office, our role is really, I guess there's a motivational aspect to it, but we're trying to really build an atmosphere where faculty can thrive. And units like CFI are a critical part of that, where we're providing additional support and connection. And we're looking to make sure that we can figure out the resource piece, space, equipment, travel and the like, so that folks can continue to thrive.

But I think, you know, belonging, psychological safety comes from a feeling of trust, and there's a sense of stability. And we've really tried hard over the last, I mean, I've been in the role 15 months now, but that was from day one has been an important piece for me.

Can you talk a little bit about COVID and how, because I was not here during COVID, can you talk about how that kind of shook up faculty and maybe their idea of culture?

Oh, yes. So at that point, I was serving as the dean of the College of Integrated Science and Engineering. And the work there is very communal and hands-on and face to face, and it all went away and felt like a nanosecond.

So we had to really, not claiming that that work was any different than anything going on in the rest of the campus. I'm just speaking to what I experienced. But we went from building full and teaming to a building that some days I was the only one in.

And so trying to figure out how community, how you retain a sense of community, and in fact, I think we lost a sense of community. And I think it's taken us a while to build it back. And in fact, in the years, so we went back face to face as soon as we could safely do it.

But what we found is people were not participate, they would come and do what they had to do, but they wouldn't do anything else. So the student clubs kind of died out. And it's taken us a while to resurrect them.

And in fact, one of the things that I noticed is students, in the same way that we model behavior after colleagues that we respect, our students are under lower division students, actually model their behavior after the upper division students. Well, all of a sudden, the upper division students were gone, so they didn't see them leading clubs, doing their capstone projects, being involved in all the ways that they were. And so, we almost had to help them reinvent that.

Now, thankfully, it's coming back, but I think, you know, for the faculty, there was also a sense of a loss of community. And it's taken a while to get folks to feel like they're able to reengage and they're getting value from that reconnection. It was a tough time.

And there are still some lingering aspects to even, what are we now, five years past. So, it's something that we continue to talk about, but it does feel like we're getting to the tail, finally.

Yeah, yes. So, final question, or at least the final planned question.

Okay.

If you could go back in time and meet yourself before your first day at JMU, what advice would you give yourself and why?

Oh, that's a really good question. I think I would tell myself to enjoy every day that this is going to be a great place for me to work, and that I'm going to be surprised at how fast the time goes. I'm a little bit in denial that I'm in my fourth decade here, and this is year 31.

In some ways, it feels like I just got to town three months ago. I think that maybe speaks to being engaged in a career, and the days can go slow and the weeks can go fast, or in my case, the years can go fast. So, I think that's what I would share with myself.

Thank you so much for being with us today. Again, I got a tremendous value. Always enjoy it.

Thanks for having me on.

Thank you. That's it for today's episode of the CFI Faculty Lounge Podcast. A big thank you to our guests, the CFI Ops team, Sarah Rush, Zach Williams, and most importantly you, our listeners.

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