The Property Perspective
From hidden gems to billion-dollar deals, this is The Property Perspective - where seasoned real estate pros reveal how they spot value others miss, and industry disruptors share the unconventional strategies reshaping real estate.
The Property Perspective
Embracing Change and Growth: Chad Johnson's Leadership Insights
Chad Johnson, Chief of Staff at Maxwell Leadership, joins us for an engaging conversation about personal development and leadership in the real estate sector. With over two decades of experience alongside John C. Maxwell, Chad shares his insights on how sports and mentorship have shaped his leadership journey. Our discussion sheds light on the unique values athletes bring to the workforce, such as work ethic and commitment, and how these contribute to effective people management.
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00:00 - Hope (Announcement)
Wondering how successful real estate investors seem to have amazing teams while you're doing everything solo. In this episode of the Property Perspective, host Preston Zeller speaks with Chad Johnson, the chief of staff at Maxwell Leadership, about the importance of personal development and meaningful connections when it comes to managing people.
00:19
From hidden gems to billion-dollar deals. This is the Property Perspective where seasoned real estate pros reveal how they spot value others miss and industry disruptors share the unconventional strategies reshaping real estate. Now here are your hosts, hey everyone.
00:34 - Preston Zeller (Host)
this is Preston Zeller. I'm the Chief Growth Officer at BatchService and I have Chad Johnson on the Property Perspective here today. Chad is the Chief of Staff at Maxwell Leadership, so of course works closely with the famous John C Maxwell and I'm really looking forward to hearing your story, Chad. I've heard bits and pieces of it, but really having a conversation here. Welcome to the show. Appreciate you coming on.
01:03 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
Great to be here, Preston, excited to be a part of this community and hopefully add some value today to your listeners, fired up to be here.
01:11 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, absolutely. So briefly, what are you doing today at Maxwell Leadership, what's your role and what do you do?
01:22 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
before we go back in time, yeah, so I've been with John Maxwell for 22 years and I know we'll go back in time to let the listeners know how I got there. It's funny, most people in John's circle if you're in that inner circle with John Maxwell, everybody has been there 20 plus, even 30 plus years, which speaks a lot to who John is and how he values his internal team. And so currently I represent John from an agency side. So he is 78 years old I say going on 48 because he runs faster than me even sometimes, which is pretty fast, and he really believes that he has no finish line, because he loves what he does, he's passionate about it, he's on mission, he's purposeful, and so we're all trying to keep up with him. So, representing him as an agent, there's no slow days, he's traveling quite a bit and so keeping up with him from that standpoint, which, if you represent John, then opportunity follows that too.
02:20
So I quarterback and help really move the ball forward on so many different initiatives that John Maxwell is passionate about, that Mark Kolar, CEO, is passionate about. We kind of have an inner circle about five of us that are really about championing these legacy years that John is in. He really is Preston, a once-in-a-century leader. That's not just what we say internally in Maxwell Leadership, but it's what we hear from Inc Magazine and all the big players out there. He's the goat in the leadership and personal growth space.
02:50
So any chance I get to quarterback and carry the ball forward on key initiatives, whether it's transformation in countries we've been asked by 22 heads of states to come and teach values-based leadership in country, helping in those initiatives, anything on the business development side, really playing a role as a senior business development, wearing that chief of staff hat sometimes as well, but those are kind of the things that are keeping me busy. As John runs, so does the rest of us, and he's running incredibly fast, which is great, Preston, because to have a founder and someone like John, 50 years in that, wants to pass the leadership baton at top speed, which that's a leadership lesson in and of itself that so many leaders pass the baton when they're on the other side of the S curve and John is really passing the baton to people like me, to Mark, while he is running at 100 miles per hour, and with that it keeps us all busy. So that's what I'm doing right now.
03:49 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, I mean john's definitely one of those guys, like you know, seems like everything they say is like a quotable um so yeah, put it.
03:56 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
Put it on a billboard. Right, Preston, you can see it all over the highways. John, just drops these one-liners.
04:01 - Preston Zeller (Host)
That man is like, yeah, here it is yeah, that's, and that's like yeah, it takes years, decades of, uh, firsthand experience and application to get to that point, that's for sure. Um, cool, thanks for that, Chad. Um, let's go back in time for you. Um, you know, my kind of back in time question is usually pretty similar, which is um, what was it like growing up for you? What did your parents do for a living? Siblings?
04:30
Why don't we start there?
04:31 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
Yeah, so I grew up in Virginia, grew up with a great, rooted family, values-based fortunate to be in that space, have an older brother just the two of us siblings and my parents put us in great environments For where they may have lacked emotionally or even in mentorship, they put us in environments that offered that, and so most of my journey in leadership came through sports, placed in environments to play small college basketball, so much of who I am today as a leader, a lot of that comes from the work ethic, the commitment, the hustle, the grit, the grind. Everyone plays a role on the team and that's really where I really feel like I developed my leadership muscles or got exposed to them, and I always tell anybody that's in the hiring process of team members if you can hire an athlete that has played, at least you know if they played at the high school level at a high capacity or played a collegiate, I'm like sign me up Like I. Those people rise to the top just because I think there's values. You learn in that world that you don't get elsewhere, and so that's been a big part of my story and journey that's allowed me to do what I do today. And so, yeah, I was fortunate to be in the environments.
05:48
If you look at I talk about this often Preston, like there's a breadcrumb slide, and what I mean by that is there's people in our life and I think I may have mentioned this previously to you, but to the listeners, I think it's important to offer gratitude back to those that put us in the rooms and the environments that we wouldn't have been in otherwise. And so, if you look at Chad's breadcrumbs slide, which are really the people that looked at Preston, looked at Chad, and they said, at a critical season in our life, that you have what it takes, even when there's part of our own heart and our own head that said we don't. But they saw the potential in you. And so I look back at coach John Scorzone my junior year. He said, Chad, you have what it takes. Not only do you have what it takes. I see the work you're putting in to basketball. You're showing up so well, you're putting in the time and the effort and, honestly, you're leading the team by how you run. And basically he was the one that put that C on my chest for captain my senior year because he saw something in me. He saw the way I was influencing the team. He said, Chad, you have what it takes.
06:57
There's about four or five other people in my life. I journeyed even into Maxwell's world Mark Kohler, CEO. He put me in rooms Preston I didn't even deserve to be in at an early age where I wasn't even probably mature enough to even understand it or even appreciate it. But we all have those people in our life. I think anybody that's been successful where we stood on their shoulders right, we lean into that. So if you look at my early years of life, I feel like I was surrounded by people that really said Chad, you have what it takes.
07:30
And I think that's so important even to give gratitude back to them. For those that are listening, maybe there's somebody coming to mind that said, yeah, this person actually gave me a shot, they gave me my first chance. And have we? Have we expressed gratitude with a written letter or a coffee set up where you could actually express that back to them? Because we all at some point lean off of what I call borrowed belief. Right, there's people in our life that have given us their borrowed belief where we couldn't do it for ourselves. We needed that assist, if you will to um, to, to really accomplish what, uh, really was exponential, from what we had internally thinking of, of where we could go.
08:16 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, no, that's. That's a great um observation. I think you know it's interesting because some people not that this is a better way by any means, but they'll have the opposite, where someone's like you're never going to amount to anything, that type of deal, and they use that as fuel, but that's like that's not a bankable strategy either. And then they, you know, kind of try to reverse, psychologize people and it's like eh, but no, I love what you said. I played, you know, competitive sports through high school as well and yeah, it was definitely people you know put putting you up along the way. So I think that's great. What'd your parents do for a living growing up?
08:57 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
Yeah, so my dad was an accountant at at the Newport news shipyard and Newport news, virginia, so we have a big history of even military side in our family. So he worked on aircraft carriers for accounting side of contracts, which naturally Preston. I thought I got to my junior year of college and I thought I needed to follow in my dad's shoes and so I played basketball and I hadn't declared a major and I was like I got to declare something. My roommate's super smart and who can help me get through accounting. I love numbers as a whole. So I was like, well, this is my practical next step.
09:34
Well, I had to cram out junior year. I had to do summer classes of like 16 hours because I declared late just to get through. But I was like, well, this is what my dad did, so I want to do it too. Well, I got a year and a half into doing tax and audit work back in Virginia where I grew up after college and I remember being at NASA in Yorktown, Virginia, doing an audit in a meat locker of cheese slabs and meat slabs on a clipboard just counting inventory and the light bulb pressed and came on and it was a moment where I was like okay, this is an exit stage left for Chad and those that know me just relationally and personally, they're like Chad, I could never label you as an accountant. It just doesn't fit.
10:15
I love accountants out there that are listening, but for me, just personality wise, it was like and honestly, Preston, it's come to play big dividends for me in a lot of the chief of staff stuff and running businesses and the numbers side of P&Ls and all that that embodies. But that's what my dad did, that's what I thought I should have done, Preston, but God made it a very clearly an exit stage left moment for me that catapulted me into John's world and really starting there as an intern in 2002, which is a story in and of itself as well. And then my mom was fortunate. She taught for a little bit teacher side and then um really helped, was able to stay at home with us as kids growing up and uh, and doing that for most of our high school time as well yeah, that's a huge blessing too, because I know that's how, um, my wife and I decided early on.
11:04 - Preston Zeller (Host)
that was, like you know, you're going to raise the kids and, uh, I'll go find the money somewhere. You go around. Um, yeah, and you have two older brothers, I think you said just one, older brother Yep, correct, yep. Cool, um, and were you guys close growing up or?
11:24 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
yeah, we were. We're only 19 months apart. So on my October birthday my parents decided they wanted to start me early versus late. I don't know how she finagled that, even legally in the school system, to get me in, but we were just a year apart in school but I was always the youngest in the class present, which honestly taught me grit and tenacity, because I was typically the smallest, shortest, really needed another year to develop and bloom. But that's part of my kind of Rudy story, if you will, from the movie and like kind of that David and Goliath side where I did leverage that, as you mentioned, I leveraged that as momentum and energy to really overcome and I had to work harder than most to do that. So it kind of became part of my story that hey, if you want to accomplish stuff you can do it. You just got to work a little harder than most because of your size. Quite honestly during that season of time. It really taught me a lot during that stretch too.
12:22 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, you know, I was the youngest too, because I was, I was a summer birthday and so, um, you know you could be, could be the oldest in the class, the youngest, I was always the youngest and I look back at that time frame, I'm like man, there's, aside from size, you're also like, there's a level of mental development that you also just don't have at that time, which makes processing things sports, of course. Of course, like the mental side of sports, like so much harder, a hundred percent.
12:51 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
And I wasn't even planning on going here with this precedent, but you're alluding to something you've been mentioning a little bit earlier too that I'll share it and hopefully it's valuable to everybody and not too deep of a dive here. But because I did leverage some of that of the negative side, I focused a lot earlier on in this conversation on the positive side of my parenting. But one thing my dad did not give me that he outsourced was high EQ. My dad did not tell me, hey, here's what boyhood to manhood looks like, here's how you should date a girl or here's how you should engage in relationships. He was really a doer and he was really a provider, which a lot of that generation. That's what they did. And then they outsourced the rest by placing me in church environments and faith environments, even in the school side.
13:40
That I did get that type of mentorship from. That I did get that type of mentorship from, and so that was a little bit of a disadvantage for me where I didn't have that launching pad from a father you know, from a, from a sonship, you know to in a fathership, of how that could really look. And that's not a knock on my dad, but what that can create in us as men is a family of origin wound, as I call it, where men is a family of origin wound, as I call it, where that leads to a lie. So that absence of a dad that was a little more passive, not in, I mean, he did so much outside looking in great, great, great dad. But I think it's also important for us as men to look back and say, hey, where was there a lack? Because that can lead to a lie which is typically pressed in an I am statement. So for me, because of what I lacked in that EQ side, the I am statement for me became. I am disqualified.
14:30
Because I didn't have that right of passage moment for my dad and then that can lead to a vow which is basically a counter to that lie, which I vow that I will become homecoming king my senior year.
14:46
I will become male athlete of the year, my senior year I will win the beauty and I will validate who I am by who I am dating no-transcript. But when it's becoming a false version of yourself, I think that's where we really need to pay attention and make sure we are staying true to who we are uniquely designed and qualified and called to do. And I think that's an assessment. That's a deep-rooted assessment for people, even maybe your listeners to go back and look at that family of origin in a healthy lens, not to become parent bashing or anything like that, but also to make sure you're living out the true version of who you are and the glory you can provide back to this world. So sorry, Preston, that's a deep dive man. I'm sorry. I hope the listeners are sticking with me. It's really a wound lie, vow, and that equals oppose is kind of the framework of that formula.
16:03 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, no, I'm tracking totally with you and I hope, if people aren't, they're going to. This will probably be, you know, rolling through their brain for the next day or two. No.
16:12
I love that you mentioned specifically the vow side of it, because so I just I lost my brother in 2019. He was a little older than me. Wow and wow. And it caused me, of course, to go okay, well, there's emptiness for a number of reasons, it's my sibling that's lost. But then I started to realize that that's where the whole notion of like these early life vows started to come into play.
16:38
And you know, I'll tell you more on another time, another time, but I think, for the sake of this conversation, I realized that I had made two vows, one about my brother, one about my dad um, that were kind of really rooted in some sort of um, rejection of an idea or hurt that I had, and I I just let those things steer me for a while and so when my brother passed, that vow died with him, and that was a very sort of like visceral example of, oh my gosh, I've been letting this steer me, but as I've talked to people, you know, kind of middle of life, even like you know, people get into their you know, 50s and 60s this way, to where they start to go Wow, am I, you? Wow, am I just operating off of this sort of ancient idea in my life that I'm not even sure what it is anymore, and it's those early life vows. So I really appreciate you mentioning that, absolutely.
17:37 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
And it's provided incredible freedom for me just to go through that exercise. But I think you also have some people to bounce that off of and make sure you're navigating that. That assessment, the right way with the right heart posture to really experience more freedom, ultimately is really the for yourself, right? It's not anything against your, your parents. We're all we're all going to create. I got three young girls and I'm going to create wounds in them, no matter how good of a dad.
18:01
I am, it's inevitable, but obviously we can minimize that to a degree. But I think it's really a great exercise to actually get some freedom yourself through the process.
18:11 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, no, that's a great observation. So after college you mentioned briefly you tried the CPA route. Quickly realized that's not your jam. So what happens from there?
18:27 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
Yeah, honestly, I mean this is a breadcrumb slide as well for me. Rob Shepard, a buddy of mine in Virginia, he knew about John Maxwell. I did not know who he was at the time and he knew I was in transition, honestly, Preston, trying to get out of a relationship that wasn't working out well too. I was looking for kind of new territory to go discover and he told me about John Maxwell and an internship program in 2002. And I was at a season where I was hungry for growth, hungry for something different, and so I moved to Atlanta, Georgia, knowing no one. And the way that I got the internship is I felt compelled. Knowing no one. And the way that I got the internship is I felt compelled.
19:07
I was woken up at 2 am one morning and it was four weeks before the internship even started. I was like surely they're not taking applications at this point? Well, they were. It was like a six-page application process, super thorough, so much involved with this. So for the next three hours, you know, until 5 am, 6 am, I filled it out, submitted it and then was probably up for the rest of the day at that point. But I got a call from Mark Cole, who was overseeing the internship program wearing many other hats, not just the internship program and we did an interview process and four weeks later I found myself walking into the offices of at the time it was called Enjoy, it's now called Maxwell Leadership, which was John's organization, and it was at the time when the show Survivor was at its peak. And so they said, hey, we're going to take five interns. They said they had a thousand applications, which I really believe, because John was so well sought after during that time and he still is to this day.
20:02
But it was an incredible growth time. And they said out of the five, we're only going to keep one of you after this year-long program, good luck, kind of prove yourself Well, being the athlete I am the Rudy, if you will. That I am. I was like all right, this is my time to shine. Sign me up, I'm in, let's go. So I was just two years out of college, you know, still had that competitive juices flowing. I was like, let's do it so and really my model and how I've kind of lived my life is really servant leadership model. So it wasn't a cutthroat model, but it was more. Let me just, I'll do whatever it takes, put me in coach. Whatever you need I'll get done. And I had not pressed and experienced a growth environment that I walked into John's world.
20:57
It was an incredible season of time where all these 20-somethings were gathering together part of John's organization great builders, great minds, great hearts in about four to five years where everybody kind of spun off their own ministry or their own organization at some point throughout those five years just because it was this culmination of what I call just builders and legendary leaders or legacy leaders.
21:17
They wanted to run that long race well together and you could sense that in that environment. And once I experienced that growth environment and I love your title, chief Growth Officer, I mean once I experienced growth at that level I was like I don't want anything else, I want to be around this type of people, this type of organization. And that's a testament to who Mark Cole is, to who John Maxwell is and the people that kind of had been trained and raised by John in their leadership, growth and capacity too. So I jumped right in and then after that year it was such a growth season inside the organization. All of us kind of naturally fit into a certain area inside the organization and we all got hired and I naturally played into this movement called Catalyst and we got to do a massive mega events for the next 10, 15 years all over the country, really looking at leaders 40 and under, and how do we help raise them up appropriately, which was such an incredible season of my time within John's world.
22:21 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Wow, so that's yeah. I think that that's pretty fascinating that they, they, they told you. Did you ever find out if they had planned all along to just hire who they needed, or that that's part of like the psychological setup is to say only one.
22:40 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
No, honestly, I think they genuinely intended to just hire one person. No, honestly, I think they genuinely intended to just hire one person. And once they saw out of a thousand resumes and they got the five, I mean, mark and his team did a great job assessing who would be a great fit, and so I think when you trim down to five out of a thousand, you got some pretty stellar talent. That's hungry. You, Patrick Lindsey. Lindsey on his book uh, the ideal team player. He talks about humble, hungry and people smart. I think they did a really good job of identifying those that fit all three of those pretty well. Uh, inside of who they brought on, and so at the end of the year they're like well, we want them on, they're the right people. You know on the bus, let's just find the right seat.
23:25
Um and that's kind of how it played out.
23:29 - Preston Zeller (Host)
What do you think was your sort of defining trait that made you thrive? I mean, you talked about sort of the competitive nature you had from sports, but then you also talked about earlier you referenced the EQ side, which I can't imagine in that kind of growth environment. They would let anyone in who didn't have a decent sort of EQ level. So but I'm just curious, aside from that sort of competitive, you know also serving leadership mindset, was there something else where you're like this really helped me? You know kind of make sense of the opportunity and thrive in it.
24:10 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
Yeah, I think you know I was actually with. There was about eight of us got to play in a foursome of golf with Tim Tebow just a month ago and we asked this question. Obviously there's more than one leadership trait that makes up a great leader. We can all probably agree to that. But we came down to say, if there's one trait that rises above the rest, what would that trait be? What's that one trait that, whether a good or bad leader, it's made a significant dent in this universe or a significant level of influence and impact, either way you go? And that word that we all kind of pulled out, that we said if there's one word, it hunger to, to, you know, get the things done that make it make an impact. And you look at every great leader that we can speak about to this day, whether bad or good. Right, there was a level of conviction, because you believe so much in the mission of what you were doing. And I do think there's other traits that go around that where there's conviction but there's also humility. Right, there's servant leadership that plays in.
25:30
I think servant leadership was a huge part of my journey, but that was also a level of hunger and conviction that helped me achieve what I have done through Maxwell's world. And when you're on purpose and doing purposeful work with people you enjoy doing it worth conviction even comes a little bit, a little bit easier. But. But I would say, like you know, we always say everything worthwhile is uphill, right Uphill all the way. So, Preston, if we want to, if I want a good marriage, if I want kids that you know, do say great things about their dad or do or do say that their dad delights in them at the end of my life that I cascaded that to them If we want a successful business, if we want to do a startup but make it last longer than a startup, there's an uphill climb to anything that's worthwhile, anything in our life that's worthwhile.
26:23
We have to have that conviction that we're going to do whatever it takes to get it there. And I think I carry that with me Again. Easier to do in a energetic growth environment, harder to do in an environment where you feel like you know it's uphill all the way and nobody's helping you push the rock up the hill. But I had a lot of people alongside of me in that process that believed in me. But I do think that level of conviction and passion and hunger. If you have that and you have a coachable spirit too, man, I'll take that on my team all day. Every day. I can teach a little bit of the people smart, a little bit of the EQ that can be built in over time, but humble and then hungry in this conviction side, those man, that's such a gift.
27:16 - Preston Zeller (Host)
If that can that, that can be in in who you have on your team yeah, there's, you know, brings this kind of I don't know if this is a saying or summary of thoughts around that topic, but like comfort is the enemy of progress.
27:32
Um, and there's like shades of that too, where, uh, I mean, you have the David Goggins type right which is just full tilt all the time, which you're like when do, when do you rest?
27:45
Uh, but then they're but, but, and it's interesting, some of the stuff, like you know, Andrew Huberman, people like that talk, you know, sort of scientifically, pointing out now, like how there's parts of your brain and just the things that result positively from doing hard things and that, and I think to some degree there's like such a convenience and comfort kind of culture that's been, you know, created in us probably in particular, but where, like you, really I think fostering that at a young age is so so much more crucial now than ever because, like you were saying, with your dad and I know my parents as well, like a lot of them when you were just brought up in this generation, where it was really hard and you didn't have a choice, and there's so much more uh, sort of distraction to not do anything now, now that people can make all sorts of excuses like I'm just going to lay around, sit around, do the thing or whatever.
28:47
And yeah, no, I love that, though you know, when you were saying that talking about your golf thing, one of the words that came to mind for me was sacrifice.
28:55 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
As another one of those, and I think that comes with conviction, right Like if you're, if you, if you have a conviction, you know where you want to go. There's going to be sacrifices you're going to have to make to get there. It's that, it's that everything worthwhile is uphill, and I agree with you. I mean you can, you can choose comfort or you can choose growth, but you can't choose both Like it's just, it's just inevitable. If you want to grow, you got to get comfortable being uncomfortable, and many of us want to have that control where it's predictable, it's calculated, and I don't think that's what really moves a leader to true freedom. When you have those things, they're great, they're seasons where you want to be more calculated and controlled, but I don't think it provides true freedom and really letting us live to our full potential if we choose to live in that space. I mean, they always say what that grass grows in the valleys, not on the mountaintops.
30:00
So if you learn to embrace the valleys of life. That's actually where the growth and the maturation and the refinement happen, is in that valleys, and so often we want to live like middle of the mountain, where it's comfortable, safe. We're not going down to the valleys but we're not at the mountaintops and I'm like, if that's what we live at the end of our life, where we've just lived at a midway point of comfort and control, I don't think we've really lived. And I think once you surround yourself, Preston, with other people that are choosing to chase growth, man, it just makes you want to raise the bar, raise the level and success is great, but living a life of significance is even better and I think once you've tasted it, seen it, felt it, it changes your hunger for more of it.
30:48 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah Well, and I'll play off that mountain analogy a bit more right, whereas I think some people want to try to stay at that peak, you know, and it's like how many people are at the top of a mountain? You know, you and a handful maybe. So, like you got to come back down for context, for reflection, to right.
31:12 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
And even Preston to bring people up with you, right.
31:15 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, go down there.
31:17 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
Go down and grab people and show them what you've seen, right like, because, because, uh, what I think john says uh, if you're on the mountaintop and you're by yourself, you're, you're just a hiker, right like so you want to bring people up, up to the mountain, uh, and experience it, and obviously as you get up, you should have people around you, because teamwork makes the dream work right and we really believe that and buy into it. It's better to do it together than alone, because then you are just a hiker by yourself, which really doesn't have a lot of significance and meaning. But also, once we've experienced the mountaintops, what are we doing? To go down and let other people experience the growth we've seen and tasted and to actually bring them up with us and that's the thing I think many companies and leaders are falling prey to with the busy culture we're in is what we call a level four leader. We kind of have our banner curriculums on the five levels of leadership, which really gives a framework for a common language that drives beliefs, that drives behavior. So it's the banner culture curriculum. If your listeners don't have the five levels of leadership and you're leading people or leading teams, you need to get it, because it'll give a common language that will drive your beliefs, that will drive your behaviors inside of your organization.
32:31
But a level four leader is a reproducing leader. It's a leader that actually is taking time to invest and to develop and to pour into. And I want to imagine, even with your role, Preston, you're doing that. You're living at a level four area where you're actually helping develop, raise up, invite them to the mountaintops, invite them at least on a growth track of how to get to the mountaintops right and how often in our current busy schedule and the culture we're in that to do checklists where we feel rewarded actually more from getting our checklist or our inbox clean. But what's the true testament of a level five leader is how are we spending time with the right leaders? The Pareto principle the 80-20%, 20% of your leaders are going to be the ones that really are worth investing in, that are going to help you turn out and produce 80% of the work. So you got to identify who those 20% are. But how are we developing those leaders so that way they're able to experience what we have experienced on the mountaintop? How are we carving out time in our schedule to not just run through production but also relationship, which is really our level two, and they, they build on each other.
33:39
We go from title and position is level one. Level two is relationship and really getting to know the people, their story, just like you're asking me, Preston, what's Chad, your story? You've learned so much about me and 30 minutes here of Chad's journey just by question, great question asking, right, like, how are we asking great questions to relationally build rapport. And then that leads to production. So you gain influence by what you're doing, what you're producing. Then there's reproduction, level four, and there's a pinnacle.
34:06
Leadership is kind of the quick framework around that and they build on each other. Right, if you're leading out of position at level one, it's a great place to start with your influence, because we believe leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less. And so if that's the case, a title gives you immediate influence, but it's a terrible place to stay. You need to build that relational rapport. Then the production rapport, influenced by what you're doing and the revenue you're producing or the things you're accomplishing. But then there's the reproduction side that I think, as you mentioned, we don't bring people up the mountain with us yeah, uh, that's.
34:43 - Preston Zeller (Host)
I love that breakdown too. Um, and you can, at least for me, like I think, if, if you're not pouring into people, you start to feel that, like you know you get, like you said you get caught in the busyness or whatever other things you know, like you said you get caught in the busyness or whatever other things you know, really filling your plate, that's not, you know. You know, keeping you involved and growing other people, you start to go man, what am I? Am I just kind of like selfishly waiting through life right now.
35:15 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
True, yeah Well, and John Preston? John highlights and this is for your listeners probably to even write down and hold with them for any lunch and learn you do for the future. But one thing we are about in our culture is a spirit of curiosity. So becoming great question askers is a huge way to build rapport quickly and get to know people and then live that spirit of curiosity. So, john, we go through seven questions. That man, this is a scalable seven questions. So use this. Your listeners can use this over and over again Family as well, and how you engage. But it's what's your greatest lesson learned? What are you learning right now? How has failure shaped your life?
35:59
We actually learn so much from people through failure than we do successes. What are you doing that I should do? What do you know that I should know? What should I read?
36:15
And here's the last question, which I think turns it right back to the person across the table from you, is how can I add value to you, how can I serve and add value to you? That question alone is worth the price of admission, just because if we act in a posture of how can I serve you, how can I help you, how can I add value to you? You know, john's, in a season of almost leadership, sad right now, just because there's not a posture of how do we help each other. There's more division and divisiveness than there is collaboration and connectedness. But if we really operate of a posture of how can I serve you, how can I help you, man, it changes everything. It changes everything in the relational dynamics and it changes everything in how I make you feel, Preston, and how I value you, and it breaks down the walls of differences pretty quickly when that's the posture of our heart.
37:11 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, I love that. I have nothing to add to that. I want to. I want to get back to your story real quick, because I know we're kind of. I mean, these are fantastic um points that that you're making and we're getting a riff on. So you mentioned um really running john's events for, I think, 10 or 15 years. What did that entail exactly?
37:39 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
great question. Yeah, yeah, and I'm still running some events, and one thing I meant to mention on the front end of what I'm currently doing and then I'll go into the question directly is high capacity leaders. So I really felt impressed upon my heart Preston, and if anybody's ever interested in it, please reach out to me. But as John got to be 75 years old, it dawned on me that I have access to one of the greatest assets I could ever have access to, which is John Maxwell's time and his trust. And so I was like Chad at 22 years really at 20 years at that point of living out a servant leadership model. What am I doing to be a bridge to a once in a century leader like John that may not come around too often to the up and coming generation of leaders? And so high capacity has been formed the last two years where we're doing these curated 24 hour experiences as well as, even now, a mentorship program. So a year long program that we're doing that gives people access to John, gives people access to be mentored by John as well as other handpicked mentors that John and I have riffed off together to really add to the community a chance for these people to get to know each other, and so we kind of have a top a hundred leaders from the cost across the country that we launched this November, our second year of a mentorship program through the community, and so with that we just want to give back as John's running at top speed. How do I impart wisdom and insight from John? Because John talks to this day about the 10 mentors that poured into his life, that made him who he is to this day, and one of those is John Wooden, the iconic UCLA men's basketball coach, and he still talks to them about this day with endearment and just appreciation for the shoulders he was able to stand on to get there. So I really, through high capacity, want to give people a chance to do that same thing with John in a obviously a more group capacity, but it's been pretty incredible.
39:37
But yeah, I love the gatherings, I love hosting the talent.
39:42
I love I feel like I'm a natural gifted curator, community gatherer, a galvanizer, if you will, of people, and so we do look for John's name helps us get in the door with a lot of people.
39:56
But I do also host and actually book the talent we put on our stages for our events, and so I've been fortunate to work with, I mean, some of the best leaders out there, anybody at the top of the leadership game I've been able to work with and connect with, and so you know John's growth minded, and so events give us an incredible opportunity to do that, have these impartation moments for what we get to do, and so it's been a role that I've fully embraced and continue to push forward in all fronts and it just gives us greater reach and impact for what we get to do.
40:32
I don't know if that answered your question directly, Preston, of like the event spaces, like the event spaces, but we are seeing that more intimate, curated, workshop-driven events are much more valuable than these anthem events. Anthem events still have a place, but how do you trim it down to a little more intimate, curated, where people get to know each other, flesh-on-flesh community connection? And that's what high capacity has been an answer to, and we're seeing that even across the board yeah, just to back up real quick.
41:06
So are the anthem events like large gatherings, one, two, three, four, five thousand, and then you have like masterminds, more or less very similar, and you know that I mean even through family mastermind and what we get to be a part of in that community. Yeah, so, so we still do anthem events. Day to grow event is our big anthem event. Live to lead is another one of our big anthem events, uh, but those are really like a feeder event to hey. For those that want to go a little bit deeper and have a community surrounding it, then we'll, we'll, we'll, plug and play this as well.
41:41 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, it's interesting in just doing the show and talking to people, right, the real common thread are people getting real mentorship. And what I love about your background and why I particularly wanted to have you on here is because I think so many people, whatever profession they're going to go into or whatever you know niche, so real estate they think, oh, I need to find, you know, a real estate guru, whatever you want to call them right real estate coach, someone who just does real estate. Um, and, and you know you, you seek that specifically, which is fine. But I think there's also the other side of this, which is just the general, like person, who you are, the leadership side and all the things that go with that and how that can, I think, in many ways, like spill over even more into other parts of your life.
42:46 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
A hundred percent and John talks about this in the law of the lid in relation to your leadership and your personal growth.
42:54
I mean John's really leadership and personal growth. There's a faith arm to him that we don't always broadcast that's a part of who he is through his nonprofit but to the secular world or to the corporate world, he's personal growth and leadership and we talk in the lid. It's like the simple example is hey, if you're growing your leadership and maybe you're at a 6 out of 10 and your best leader possible is a 10, but you're at a six, well, Preston, you're going to attract fours and fives inside of your organization. So it's one thing to be niche focused on the tools of the business and to be competent and qualified in the niches right, I still believe the riches are in the niches in that space. But if you're going to get to what we call a pinnacle leader and your lid as a leader is at a six, you're only going to attract fours and fives. So the moment you start to invest in yourself and I really believe this, not just because I work for John Maxwell, involved in his world but the best investment you can ever make is in your personal leadership growth. If you aren't willing to bet on you for your leadership growth, then who else is right? Like, who else're going to track you get to an eight, you're going to track now six and sevens, the growth in your organization, the people you're going to acquire, the people you're going to bring alongside of, I mean, that's going to only elevate and we really believe that if you grow the leader, you grow the business and that's a natural byproduct of leadership growth, just like what you're referring to. So invest in the things that are going to raise your leadership lid.
44:40
Put yourself in rooms where you're not the smartest person in the room where there is a level of uncomfortability, where you're being stretched, where you're actually around people that are thinking bigger, better, brighter. If you're not doing that, you're not passionate or you're not going to grow right Like that's just. That's just the cause and effect, if you will, of what we're discussing here to this day. So I would agree with you wholeheartedly the and we believe everything rises and falls on leadership. Yeah, the great news in that statement is that everyone can become a great leader over time, and they're also great news is that everyone can lead today, because if influence is leadership, you have a chance throughout your day. Say is what are you going to choose today? Faith, what can you choose today? And her response she's, she's been trained. Her response is a good attitude. Dad, I get to choose a good attitude.
45:52
I'm like I'm like, come on, like that's it, like, if that's as simple for a six-year-old as it could be for us to this day, are we choosing a good attitude for every environment, in every situation we're showing up for, because that attitude is influence and that, as we define it, is leadership, and so it's a chance for us to all live that out in such a simple way and we get lost in that sometimes Are we just showing up with a good attitude? Where's our attitude in this conversation and interaction? So hopefully that answers your question too, Preston, but I agree with you on the that side of leadership, growth and how important of an investment that really is.
46:26 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, I think it's a great example. I mean, I have three kids too. They're, I think, a little older than yours, like preteen, but we'll, we'll talk to them a lot about you know what kind of example they're setting. You setting a good example or a bad example for people you know? Yeah, just get them to think about their actions. So what was? I know you've shared, of course, a lot about leadership, but anything else maybe unexpected, even that you have learned, or have learned from all these different events that you've run um for maxwell over the years something surprising, maybe it's a good question, um, I mean, I think I think the number one thing about events and gatherings is that you have to make it about your audience right, so make sure you're intentional with the audience.
47:24 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
One bit of advice at an event that I heard that has continued to stick with me over time is this statement to give more than you take. I think as leaders, we fall prey a lot of times to you know what's in it for me, what can I get out of it? And I heard this from Angela Arnst at our event. She was doing a fireside chat with John and John even still talks about it to this day. She was the CEO of Burberry and the highest paid female executive when she worked with Apple and just a world changer, just class act lady. And she said she got the advice from her dad of a 60-40 principle around this give more than you take, which basically says give 60, take 40.
48:15
Now the percentages could shift. Maybe it's give 70, take 30, take 30, but the concept is give more than you take, give more than you take in every environment that we're showing up for as leaders. You know why? Because 40 in this example is more than enough and I think we'll find that to be true in our life and we'll live a more fulfilled, significant life if we look to give more than we take. It's a simple but foundational principle and it really stems back to are you leading with adding value? You? Are you first seeking to add value versus extracting value? Are you living that out in your life? Because that posture creates relational rapport, partnerships, growth. I mean it, it can be. It's honestly pressing.
49:15
Why I am where I'm at today in john's inner circle? Because I do feel like I've carried a posture of servant leadership, whatever it takes, a level of conviction, but also a posture of coachability, teachability. But also, I want to give more than I take. I want to give in return more than I receive. And what a better way to live life, at the end of our life, to say we were filled with generosity, not just with our finances, but with our time and our impartation, the reason why I get excited to be on a podcast with you and your listeners.
49:47
Preston is. Hopefully there's something in here that's going to rise up in the heart of the people listening that says, man, I want to live a life that gives more than it takes, and so that was a surprise for me, and it's been something I've held onto for the last five, six years, since I heard her speak on that topic, and it just has had stickiness to uh how I want to live my life right, Even with my kids, my marriage and even uh the, the work that I do, the, the plow that I I make in the fields, fields that hopefully will produce a harvest.
50:22 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, I love that and I think you know this kind of in many ways speaks to just your the a lot of what you were saying, but it's this whole idea of just you know being in the right context too and how much that matters.
50:38
I had a friend, Brad Holcman, on um, who's also in family, but he's been around entertainment quite a while. I came from that world to some degree and but he made uh, I got out of it early on and he made the comment on our show talking about how, when he was in entertainment, like the concept of personal growth or growth is not even like, not even on the radar. You know, this concept of like having an individual sort of identity and brand that can like care about people, not even on the radar. And I think there's, there could be all sorts of places like that where people, the people that you're around, don't care you, it's, it's, it's unfortunately kind of a toxic place to be. And if that I mean I I think you said this too, but I mean you really you can only control sort of your responses and now you're reacting to things and you lead by example and you know if that's not in the place you're at. Sometimes you have to move environments too, right, yeah.
51:48 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
So I think you're spot on. I mean, I talk about it in this, in this sense of like. How do you have such a solid foundation and identity in in what you're gifted, called to do, that you're unoffendable? I just? Ryan Leak is a dear friend of mine. He's an incredible communicator. He's like one of the most sought after speakers on the circuit. He just became a New York times bestseller which we published him for that bestseller, which is so fun to see the fruit of that. But he just did a podcast episode where he mentioned my prompting to him about six years ago where he said Chad, I want to get time with John Maxwell, I'm ready for this. I feel like I'm really growing. I'm at, you know, I'm communicating well. I'm, you know, building great content. Can I get time with him? Can I get time with him? And I looked at him and I said and I've known him for 20 years, 15 years. At the time I said I said you're not ready yet, man, you're not ready yet.
52:43
And I didn't realize the impact it had until you know, now we're five, six years later and he's at the top of this game and you know, now we're doing partnership stuff together where he's a New York Times bestseller because a year ago, two years ago, I put him in a room with John because I said you're ready now, you're ready now. You're ready now and I think it's a reminder to Preston, like who is in our life that's holding us accountable to even challenge us, to say, hey, you have what it takes, but you're not ready yet Like there there's, there's a and how do we receive that? As Ryan received it where he was not offended by it, it was more motivation and inspiration to keep running so he could get there. Where then I could leverage my influence with John to put him in the room to say this guy's ready now, he's ready now.
53:36
And that's a hard pill to swallow sometimes when we hear that. But if we're really surrounding ourselves with people that aren't just encouragers and people pleasers, but we're surrounding ourselves with people that are going to call you to hard, because hard produces growth and is going to challenge you for the right ways, and do it with love, but do it with care that you do have what it takes. But I see more. I even see more before you of what you can be and I'm not afraid to leverage my influence and my trust for that. But you're not ready yet and, man, that really awoke stuff in Ryan, whereas some people will be offended by it and retreat and grow passive, and so maybe you've had that as a listener, a moment where someone said that to you, and how have not in that sort of growth mindset or okay with being the you know the candor, or being challenged.
54:52 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Uh, they get obsessed with starting new things because they're like, oh, I'm okay with like the initial phase of all this, because of course they'll be learning. But then it's like when you have to, you know, scratch and claw and fight your way to like work through those hard times. If you quit, every time you get to one of those man like you're, in some ways you get stuck in that valley, right where you're just like, ah, I hit like the, the first rough patch. Now let's go back to the valley, but I can start again and you just keep doing that versus and hopefully someone's there viewed like you were talking about to go hey, you can make it through these hard times.
55:32 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
Here are the tools to do it, and that's spot on. The first book I ever read, Preston of Johns, was failing forward and it changed my mindset that failure doesn't equal failure, but failure equals growth and as anybody that's an entrepreneur I mean you're going to fail tens of hundreds of times if you keep trying new things until you get the thing that works right and well.
55:59
So, as an entrepreneur, you know that. Right and well. So, as an entrepreneur, you know that. But, as leadership and as we grow in it, so often you're right. The moment we fail, we, we check out or we say that's not for me Right, but we believe in a success cycle and we stated as this it's test fail, learn, improve, reenter. So often people go to test fail, abort done, won't touch it again, whereas even in high capacity, this movement that we've created, it's been a test fail, learn, improve, reenter. Sometimes people will even go through test fail, reenter. And that's the definition of insanity, right, test, fail, reenter.
56:46
What we forget to do and carve out time to do is to learn and improve, because that's where the change happens. So often I've heard that if you're starting something, the greatest adjustments and growth you make in a startup is between year one and year two. Adjustments and growth you make in a startup is between year one and year two because that's the learn and improve season of time, where you're asking the questions, you're interviewing the people, in my case inside the community what's lacking, what needs to get better. You're being a student, right, You're supposed to be the expert, but sometimes you got to flip the hat to a student so that way you can then become a more qualified expert for all that's ahead. And so that whole cycle has been huge for me in making sure that failure isn't defining you or aborting you from what you feel called and convicted to do.
57:35
But it actually is a litmus test of growth and you see it through that lens can change really the way that we view life. I mean, look at, even in working out and getting better shape Like there's always these you know you want to push to failure, right, because then you know what's going to be produced. The tearing down a muscle to get stronger and better on the backside and um, it's such a great example of how most people just say oh well, it's hard, I'm out. We just don't believe that. We believe that the growth, and the exponential growth, happens when we push through those moments.
58:11 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, yeah, I love that. You know it's funny. You mentioned the workout side of things. That's one thing. I started doing more competitive stuff this year competitive endurance races so I've trained a lot. But I got on the treadmill yesterday and it was like this hasn't happened in a while. But where I was, like you know, I kept ramping up the treadmill and then I'd ramp it back down and I kept. This happened like four times. I'm like I this just isn't the day today.
58:44
You know it's not it's not a good day and I'm like I'll usually push through that. But I'm like there's a bit of that like having grace with yourself. You're like, okay, you know I'm not going to be always um performing at the level I expect, but I'm going to get back on it. I got to, you know, weight training session today, and all right, I'm just going to get back to it. I got to wait. You know, weight training session today. All right, I'm just going to get back to it and that's. I think that's some of what you're talking about. You're just like you're going to have off days, but, you know, use those to make the other days better, right?
59:17 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
Well, and I think you hit on something important to press, and it's two words show up mean, you know you, you showed up. You weren't, you weren't at your best, you weren't at man. It's this wasn't your best workout or your best, you know, but you still, you still showed up right and I think that's important for all of us. Is 50 of growth, is is showing up right. The other 50 comes once you show up. But, but if we don't get there in the place that we know we're supposed to be, uh, and showing up well, or showing up at least with a posture that I'm, I'm not at my best, you know, physically, right now I don't feel mentally that I'm even checked in, but I'm, I'm showing up, um, that's, that's an important starting point for growth, for sure.
01:00:02 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, so what is, what's your kind of outlook, Chad? What are you? What are you working towards? I mean, you know, you mentioned, you know, john's obviously in like the sort of later years of his mentorship, and you're part of that inner circle. So I mean, what's kind of on your radar for you know, I don't know, next five years, however you think about it.
01:00:25 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
And I alluded a little bit to this is a great question, Preston, but, um, I want to be a bridge to highly successful but values aligned leaders for the, the legacy race ahead. I feel like God's positioned me uniquely high capacity has become that community that I think, um, not just from what Chad believes in, but what the community is already saying is incredibly valuable, because I do think these intimate, curated, community-built-based gatherings are so rich and so important. I think we have lived so much in isolation since COVID more than we even realize even isolation of busyness and chasing the to-dos. Honestly, look at sports activities across America. It's insane the amount of Ubering we do as parents for all the activities that surround us. Where are we creating that space for enriching, intentional, purposeful community? And I think there's a. I think you know my good friend Liz Bohanian, prolific speaker again, and she's in this space and really creating a revolution around the value of connection with each other that we have lost. It's actually a higher rated need for us as leaders than even physical activity and fitness is this emotional connection with other like-minded leaders in a more intimate setting, and I'm really passionate about that too. I actually feel called and qualified to actually help curate it, facilitate it. And I, as I look beyond, you know, as I look at the legacy of John Maxwell, how can I steward his time to really pass that baton well to those that are coming up behind him and that may be new speakers, communicators, authors, be new speakers, communicators, authors, c-suite leaders, whatever it may be, but really helping facilitate that handoff and impartation well, but then also stewarding and developing and cultivating these unique, curated environments where we can just lean into each other.
01:02:40
And the two questions I always ask when we kick off any of these environments, that I think are great questions to ask even your spouse, if you're married, or your significant other or partner, or even people inside your business. The two questions are what's your current greatest challenge and what are you most excited about? And I think those questions are so important because the first one starts with what's your current greatest challenge, so what's holding you back right now? It may be a personal challenge, it may be a professional challenge, but we don't pause enough to ask that question of each other with and answers. The follow-up question to that is a really statement to that and a question as well as how can I help? How can I help you in that challenge? How can I solve, help you solve that challenge, because so often you know, I believe that the people closest to the problem are the ones that should be solving the problem inside of an organization.
01:03:44
That's a lesson even for organization. How are we elevating people that are closest to the problem to actually have a voice in how we help solve the problem? But what's your current greatest challenge? How can we help you solve it? What are you most excited about? And then, how can I help you fan the flame? Or how can I?
01:04:00
help you behind what you're excited about, because, man, that then you get. If you do that, at a table setting you're going to have cheerleaders and champions. They're going to help you move the ball further, faster than you ever could do by yourself. So those two questions have revolutionized the intimacy, in a very quick way, of community as I really believe it's designed to be, where we carry the weight of each other together, as I really believe it's designed to be, where we carry the weight of each other together and we also carry the advancement and those mountaintop exciting experiences together, all in the same space.
01:04:32 - Preston Zeller (Host)
That was very well said. I love it. Where can people find you, Chad? And yeah, what's the best way to connect with you?
01:04:43 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
Yeah, I mean Instagram is probably the best way. I don't do social media much and you'll see, I don't have like a huge crazy following because I've really been in a servant minded. This isn't a brand of Chad season of time for me, nor has it been. So Chad Johnson 10, there's a lot of Chad Johnson's out there, so I was late on the game on social media. So Chad Johnson, the number 10, that was my college basketball number. So that's what I was able to grab a little while ago On Instagram is probably the best way. And then just chadjohnson at maxwellleadershipcom isa, great email for me. If you're ever interested in anything high capacity, send me an email. That is the awkward MaxwellLeadership3LsInARowcom. So Chad Johnson at MaxwellLeadershipcom is a great way to email me and stay connected that way too.
01:05:34 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Awesome, yeah, and people should definitely go check out the different offerings that Maxwell Leadership has, that you put on and your team puts on. Well, I really appreciate you being on here, Chad, and just sharing your wisdom about leadership and everything that you've learned over the years, and it's really a unique perspective, of course, being who you are and, I think, what you've been exposed to, and I think people will get a lot out of this. So thanks for coming on the show today.
01:06:06 - Chad Johnson (Guest)
Honored to be on Preston. Thanks so much for just asking great questions and who you are and what you've built in this community. And, yeah, such a treat to be on here with you guys today.
01:06:16 - Hope (Announcement)
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