No Life 'Til Lager

No Life 'Til Lager Episode 18 - Juleidy Peña x Notch

• Adam Zuniga • Season 1 • Episode 18

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No Life 'Til Lager Episode Eighteen with Juleidy Peña, head brewer at Notch Brewing.

Hosted by failed Master Cicerone® Adam Zuniga. Produced by Jeremy Batchelor.

No Life 'Til Lager theme song by The Bad Actors. Episode art by Leigh Zoto.

Follow @nolifetillager, https://nolifetillager.buzzsprout.com

Lager Forever - https://www.notchbrewing.com

Copyright 2025 No Life 'Til Lager

Welcome Juleidy!

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to No Life to Lager, a show about lager beer, the brewers who make it and we that drink it. This is a conversation between two people over one pint. My name is Adam Zunaga. I'm a failed master cicerone. I'm part of the creative team behind the Six Most Metal Breweries and Beer Like and Doss Movie. And my guest today is Julady Pinya, the head brewer at Notch Brewing in Salem, Massachusetts. Cheers and welcome and happy Halloween, Julady.

SPEAKER_00

Hey Adam. I'm happy

Happy Halloween

SPEAKER_00

to be here. Happy Halloween.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, thank you so much. It is the most wonderful time of year, and I'm happy to celebrate it with you. That's our goal to launch this episode on Halloween. If we did it, mission accomplished. If we didn't, maybe we're in time for the day of the dead. But again, the most wonderful time of year. Thank you for celebrating and sharing it with me.

SPEAKER_00

We lean heavily in this season, especially in our Salem location.

SPEAKER_02

I bet. I bet. Do you have any for yourself any particular traditions around Halloween? Uh any particular uh rituals or celebrations? How do you like to celebrate Halloween on your own time?

SPEAKER_00

We I come from I'm from the Dominican Republic, so Halloween is not really a thing for us. But since being here, I definitely did the pilgrims to go to Salem, kind of visit all the uh all the spots for for like, you know, the little tourist traps, as we call them now. So and in the brewery we lean heavily into the whole Halloween thing and the decor and all that. So it's it's a big month for us, and we spent a lot of time preparing for it. And yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I I know that there is much more to Salem uh than the witch trials. I admittedly do have friends that make a pilgrimage every single year to do all the tourist things that you mentioned. Uh, but Salem's gonna be a big part of this story. Um my only regret from living in uh New York City in all my years in the Northeast is not visiting Salem and not visiting Notch for that matter. So we're gonna make up for it now. I think I first heard of the brewery from Zach when he was at True and uh the drummer in the band, Kimmis, and he may have collaborated, uh he might have collaborated with Notch at one point, or at least likewise made his own pilgrimage there on tour. Uh, but it's my only regret. I'd never had your beer before now. Thank you for sending me such a thoughtful, creative collection of cans. And uh we're gonna catch up for lost time. So before we begin, before we talk about you, before we talk about the brewery, um, can you tell us a little bit about the beers

Spirit beers

SPEAKER_02

in our hand? Uh, what are you drinking?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I'm drinking the Salem lager. This is um or Hellas. Um, this is a style that I really enjoy because it's kind of like you cannot hide behind it. Um, it's so simple, but also it has like a lot of complexity. Um, we brew this in our Salem location, and everyone loves it. We spent a lot of time thinking about it and just like perfecting uh the process of how we brewed it. Um, so yeah, it's one of my favorites of the beers that we brewed.

SPEAKER_02

Well, um, I believe I was drinking it last night while watching Hocus Pocus to prepare for this interview. Uh one of my own rituals for the year. It's true. It's true. Um, okay, and then admittedly, every October, every Devil's Night, I watch The Crow. So I am drinking the Crow, your Vienna Corn Lager. Um I found my Go ahead, please.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I was just gonna talk a little bit about that beer.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, because it's very interesting. We that's an old recipe uh that we kind of brought back. We are always um brewing stuff with corn. We really like corn uh at notch. Uh we know that like corn got like demonized for a little bit at the beginning of the whole craft beer movement. Uh, but corn is amazing uh when you use it properly in beer. Um for this one we use uh local ingredients uh from a mulster in Holyoke, Massachusetts, called Bally Malt. Uh, and they have this very interesting Vienna corn. Um and that's what we use in that beer, and it turned out amazing. This is also one of the only laggers that we dry hoped as well. Uh so we use crystal hops that are um American hops, uh, that we really like as well. Uh, and it's been a fan favorite, and the staff also really loved it, and I think that beer turned out uh pretty good.

SPEAKER_02

You're brewing my spirit beer. Um I've never I've never had anything quite like this. Um thank you for uh at least kind of uh we'll we'll say this if corn and adjuncts are the demon, here is to uh the demons in beer, the devil's in beer. And the craft beer movement didn't help itself by alienating so many people who enjoy adjunct lagers and pointing the finger. Um it's come up many times on this show. Um yeah, brewing with corn, brewing with rice isn't necessarily a bad thing, and when used properly, it's remarkable. Um, what is Vienna corn? I was kind of curious, just is it corn that has somehow been killed or toasted to mimic some of the color and flavor of Vienna malt?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's uh it's like a little bit toastier than the regular corn, and they actually developed that for distillers um first. Um, and it turned out to be pretty good in the beer. It kind of like took over uh the flavor of the whole thing and kind of like made it this like very nice, kind of rich uh multi corn lager that is like I think it has that like nice toastiness to it. It's not as like a the sweet corn flavor that sometimes you get for just like a plain uh corn lager. Yeah. So that was pretty interesting. It wasn't really made for beer, and it just like worked out pretty well.

SPEAKER_02

Remarkable. Um, multi finish. Uh the dry hopping is immediate, and I think you're using a variety of hop that's all all of this is kind of more of like an old school throwback to historical beer styles, um, which we see in notch uh throughout all the years to present day. But uh I will say again, you are truly brewing uh my spirit beer now. This is gonna be my first and only plug

The Crow

SPEAKER_02

for this episode. We once shot a beer parody of the crow at uh Lucky 13 saloon in Brooklyn and Adroit Theory Brewing in Virginia. Um, so shout out to Lucky 13 to Adroit Theory, uh, to our director of photography, producer, and editor for all these no life to lager episodes, Jeremy Bachelor. This was probably the crowning achievement of my personal and professional life. I realized no one's ever gonna hire me to play the crow, and I don't ever want to see that movie remade, especially after the last one. So why not do it ourselves? And we did it ourselves. Definitely. So thank you, thank you, thank you for this beer. Um

Know thy head brewer

SPEAKER_02

and moving right along, um, let's get to know you. We like to know our brewer, we like to know whose house we are in. Can you tell us a little bit about life before beer, some other life experiences you've had, some other jobs you might have had, and then ultimately what led turning this passion into a profession for you, Julady?

SPEAKER_00

Uh yes, so I'm from the Dominican Republic. Um back home. Um I had an office job for the longest time, and I developed a passion for beer. I was in a work uh trouble, and next to my hotel room was a German bar, and I went there with my co-workers and we're just like drinking beer, and I was kind of like taken aback. I was like, wow, there's like so many beer styles that they all like taste pretty different, and they're so different from what I'm used to drink back home. Mind you, we are uh very heavy beer drinkers in the Dominican Republic. Uh, but you mostly have back then um it was just your mass-produced lagers that was everything that was on the market. Uh so after that trip, I kind of like made it my mission to try as many beers as I could. And for me, the next logical thing to do was to try to brew my own beer because I really liked it. And my my beginnings in home brewing was were uh pretty pretty simple. Um, one of my friends uh gave me one of those Mr. Beer kits. Um that they're just like you're basically just diluting uh malt extract um in water. So that became boring pretty soon uh for me because it could I tried to kind of uh make copies of like uh beers that were in the market, and then I try to brew my own recipes. Um and said friend one day was, uh, do you think we should do all grain beer? And I was like, uh sure. I have no idea how we're gonna do this, but I'll just go on the internet and I'll get some books and we'll do it. Um, mind you, at this time, uh you couldn't get any ingredients in the DR. So we basically had to get everything shipped from the States, and it turned out to be a pretty expensive hobby for like two years. Uh, we were homebrewing every weekend, tried just to learn how to do it. Our first brew day was like 12 hours, and the beer was uh pretty undrinkable. All of our friends were like, oh, this is fantastic. And I was like, You're lying.

SPEAKER_02

This is it's good to have friends.

SPEAKER_00

This is, I understand, it's like free beer, but this is like not good. Um you can be honest, you're not you're not helping me.

SPEAKER_02

Um doing their due diligence for the sake of friendship, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We tried to uh our idea was to eventually open some sort of like brew bop or something um like that. So we tried to make uh an amber L a thing because we were like, well, you can't this these palettes are uh accustomed to drinking Pilsner beers. Uh so if we wanted to do something different without competing with the mayor producers of beer, um we thought that that was a style that would kind of like worked. So we brewed that beer style for like a year straight until we actually uh got good at it. Um we tried to eventually uh work into opening a small brewery, which we kind of did in paper. Um because when we were pretty close to get all the permits that we needed, uh we couldn't get the last uh approval because the neighbors were not happy with the locations that we were at. And that meant that we needed to start the whole process over. And um, we just took a pause at that point. Um and then I moved here, and I was like, well, this is my opportunity to make uh make a career out of this passion, right? Uh because I was like, by that point, I was like pretty sure that that was what I wanted. So all those years in the DR, I was just still had my day job and doing this on the side on the weekends on nighttime. Uh, but when I moved here in 2018, I was I was determined to get a job in Bruin. So uh I started just applying to beer jobs, and I was lucky enough to get a job like within a month of being here at This Is Before Notch uh at a brewery called Aeronat Bruin, and they hired me as a bartender, but I was very vocal about what I wanted to do. And I I was pretty honest about like the kind of experience that I had back home. Um, we had a like a pretty small brew system, but they were like, we have this part-time opening in the back. If you want to jump to that, we'll give you it. I'm like, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

It's awesome.

SPEAKER_00

And by before I even started working there, I had that like part-time um seller position. And I think like a lot of things aligned for me in a in a way because my supervisor at the time quit within three months to go work at a another brewery. So I was I found myself by myself in the cellar uh within three months. So um, yeah, that was that was a bit of a challenge, but it I guess it kind of helped me to kind of be like, you need to get good at this fast, yeah, um, kind of situation. But it worked out. Um it were it worked out for me. I was at that brewery for uh three and a half years, and uh within the first year I was already brewing there. Um and now I've been at Notch for four and a half years.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. There are that was pretty long. Yeah, no, no, no, no accidents. Um, all meant to be. And it's just interesting how uh your story parallels so many of the other brewers I've spoken to. You know, originally, uh whatever it was, an office job, a survival job, you know, having that moment, that epiphany, whether it was at a German bar or a beer garden in Germany, um, you know, becoming a home brewer. It's really interesting. You tried to build out like a craft brewery, a nano brewery in the Dominican Republic, and uh that it ultimately led you, I'm glad your roots are there, and that it ultimately led you here. I will say, welcome home, and to quickly, so quickly land a job. This is all in Massachusetts, right? Kind of like around the bottom.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, this is us being only Massachusetts, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah,

Brewers as Mentors

SPEAKER_02

yeah. And we ultimately learn by doing, right? So everyone who's had that oh shit moment when they're suddenly given a lot of responsibility and just have to figure out. I mean, that's the best way to learn.

SPEAKER_00

Um I've I honestly feel like pretty lucky as well because with everyone that I've worked, um, they have everyone has been like an open book, uh, you know, and I think that is also like pretty important and something that I try to do as well. It's like you you lean heavily on your co-workers and you build that community and then you they help you grow, right? Yeah, didn't get here by myself. So another one. Everyone that I work with, I have a little bit of them in me with the thing of how I do things.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, we can call that mentorship, we can call it friendship, but you know, here's to sharing information and experiences rather than you know keeping trade secrets. Um that's also how we learn, also how we grow. And you know, Todd said the same in uh one of our previous episodes with Good Word. It's a recurring theme that good brewers share, that the best brewers share and ultimately make better brewers. Um, I love it. And when you talk about uh just being a uh a beer drinking

Presidente

SPEAKER_02

country in the Dominican Republic, um Pilsner drinkers, is that Presidente? Uh what's typically the beer? Yes, Presidente, my God.

SPEAKER_00

Definitely. Uh Presidente is like oh, the the main brand in the DR. We have other brands that are local. Um Bohemia. Um, we have another one, Quisqueya. I tell all my friends that they go when they go to the DR, I tell them not to drink Presidente to drink Bohemia, which is what we drink. Um which we think is better, but it's probably all the same a little bit.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, maybe. I mean, Presidente, is it still actually brewed in the DR? Would you say there's anything kind of like authentic about it to the Dominican Republic? Or is it international beer at this point?

SPEAKER_00

It is an international conglomerate, but it is still brewed in the DR. They actually brew other brands from like they do, I know they do uh modelo there. I think Heineken is also brewed, but definitely the Dominican brands are still brewed uh in the VR.

SPEAKER_02

Nice. Very nice. Um, and that brings us up to present

Know thy lager brewery

SPEAKER_02

day, and it's it's relevant to to Notch as well, just kind of talking about uh brewers who learn, brewers who share, contract brewing. Um, I don't think that's necessarily a dirty word anymore by any stretch of the imagination, especially when you're doing it the right way. But uh I know Notch was founded, what, 2010? So left of the dial since 2010 is what the website says. I never heard that term left of the dial before, but I just know it means basically, you know, broadcasting under the radar or without corporate sponsorship and advertisement. I love it. Um initially brewed at a number of great breweries around the Northeast, like uh what, Harpoon, like Two Roads, uh Zero Gravity. Um which allowed you uh to kind of build the brand and then ultimately build out initially your Salem tap room circa, what, like 2015, 2016?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So just tell us a little bit more about the brewery, the vision, the mission, the story behind its founding, and then how we all ultimately come full circle and connect to what you're doing between the Salem tap room as well as the Brighton beer garden as of now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so Nosh started like uh a contract brewing brand. Uh basically, uh Chris Loring, the founder, uh he came up with just like brewing this uh sessionable beers. He brew his brand, Life of the Dial, and Session Pills in uh a bunch of different places within Massachusetts before uh building the actual uh brewery in Salem. And the idea when he designed that brewery was that he wanted to take uh the inspiration that he got from a trip to the Czech Republic and kind of in Germany as well, uh, and kind of bring that back. And he designed the whole brewery, and we have a pretty nice brew house that is designed to uh do decoctions pretty easily, and that's the kind of like the mindset behind um everything that we do in Notch. We take these uh let's say historical styles and kind of try to pay homage to them to um brew them as close to uh the originals as we can. Obviously, we're not in Germany or the Czech Republic, so these are just Czech or German style beers, but we try to kind of do it as best as we can just to pay homage to those uh uh beer styles. Uh now we have a second location um in Brighton we opened around four years ago. Um, it's a smaller brewery, same setup, and we kind of try to do the same thing there. Uh we have a very interesting setup there because the brew house and the the brewery is smaller. So the the check beers are served straight from the laggardine tank into the Luca faucets. That's the only difference that uh we have from the Salem location. Um but it's the same process, the same care, um, the same beer. Sometimes we use that brewery too to kind of try different uh new stuff or do a smaller batches of of things, but we try to maintain a very concise concept between uh the two locations.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah.

Salem and Brighton

SPEAKER_02

And both, um, I mean, out of Salem, it's what? Maybe like a 10-barrel system in Brighton, maybe seven barrels, give or take. So the You're brewing truly bald ash lager at both.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. So Salem is a 10-barrel brew house. Um, Brighton is a seven-barrel brew house. Uh the call site of uh Brighton is way smaller. Uh we only have eight lagering tanks, and um we try for these beers, all the Czech beers, some of the German beers we have open fermenters that they will go there. Um, and we try to everything will be horizontal, laggered, and then naturally carbonated.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And do you brew all beers and all styles at both? Um, do you spend your time at both dividing your days between both? Or is there is there a reason that you would be at Salem over Brighton or Brighton over Salem? Just what do both facilities mean to you and how do you kind of structure your brew days around it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I initially was the lead brewer in Brighton. So I was the one mostly uh doing all the work there. Um we're pretty we're pretty small team. Um is Chris Deoner, me, and we have uh another brewer, Anna. Um and we just split our days. So as it is right now, the main production for us is the salmon location. And then I'll split my time between the two. Um, as of now, I will go to Brighton twice a week. I'll go one day um to brew and then I'll go the next day to cellar. I'm usually brewing the check uh check style lagers there. So everything goes into the open fermenter. So I have to go to transfer them, meet fermentation. So I uh kind of like just like split my days uh depending on what is in the tank, what is is what is on the schedule. Um, if we're in the busy season and we need to do more brews, then uh Chris will jump into the brew house. That's one of the advantages of have having an owner that is also a brewer that really enjoys brewing as well. Uh so he's always open and happy to fill in the gaps uh when we uh need some some extra hands. People are always uh so surprised when we when we tell them that it's only the three of us uh in the brewery, in both of them.

SPEAKER_02

For the for the for the quality and the variety of beers you brew, it is kind of surprising. I mean, to your credit, and I think you've been a part of Notch basically ever since there were both locations, correct? For Salem and Brighton.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I started working when the uh Brighton Brewery was getting built up.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and promoted to head brewer at Notch um within the last year, correct?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that was like around April this year or so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh well, pretty much. Pretty new.

SPEAKER_00

I'm still learning.

SPEAKER_02

Uh many, many congratulations. Thank you. Uh to the beer I've had so far and to the crow, the beer I'm drinking now. I mean, we are always still learning, but it's hard to improve upon perfection. These beers, I mean, I I want to talk about a little bit. I don't know if this is necessarily what makes Notch different, but I mean, it is what makes Notch so special.

Lagered forever

SPEAKER_02

The fact that you've been doing this, the vision was there in 2010, the production and the execution um has been there since 2016 or so. Um, but everything that we're enjoying the fruits of in craft beer now, just the emphasis on proper glassware. Um, you know, you label all your check beers with the starting gravity. You I know you set your setup for decoction and open and closed fermentation, horizontal lagering. Lagering, some of the some of your beers are lagered, three months and more is exceptional because that is precious time and precious real estate.

SPEAKER_00

We are we sometimes don't mean to do that that long. It's just like it's it works out. You know, it's uh now that you say that, it's it's like the vision was there when this brewery was created. So Chris had a very clear uh idea of what he wanted to do. Um, so it's very refreshing to kind of not be in the mindset that these beers needs to need need to be out in the world at X date. Um you know, is probably not the best for the business, but there's uh intention behind every beer. And we try that every beer that we put outside, we put in a can, kind of like we are all in the in in the same um point that we're happy with it and it it tastes how we want it to be, is how it's intended to be. And beer changes because it's like the grain, everything that you put in beer isn't like an agricultural thing, right? Like the grain, the hop. So uh the yeast is a live organism, so everything behaves differently. So it's in order to always have like uh a consistency in your product, sometimes you'll need to lagger it a little longer, or sometimes it needs a little more time in this, and it's it's always being open to understand that this process is is flexible, right? That every brand behaves differently and that we're taking the time just to put the best beer that we're all proud of out there, so that's like extremely important for us.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I will say hashtag laggard forever. Forever, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So sometimes in I've in the Brighton location, since we are serving out of the lagging tanks, and the winters in New England can be long and cold. Um, so sometime unintentionally, we have beers that have been laggering for uh three months. Doesn't make the beer better, we don't really see uh like outstanding difference. The beer is gonna round up, obviously, but is the the beer is ready when it's ready. It doesn't we don't like to set ourselves to oh it needs to sit in the town for three months. Um sometimes the beer will be ready in six weeks, and it is what it is. Uh but the main thing is that we we're we're focused on just putting the best beer out there every time.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, for sure. Um, I've heard similar things before that the beer is ready when it's ready, that the beer decides when it's ready, that the brewer's taste uh ultimately decides when it's ready, that it's brewed to taste, that it's brewed to touch, that beer is uh a living, breathing agricultural product uh that for some time was discarded as an industrial product, but uh no. Uh beer is uh alive, beer is food, beer is good for you. I keep hearing this interpreted different ways, but that's a big part of why we're doing this show, is just because I think lager beer is one of the finest expressions of that. Um that you are rooted in historical styles, um, in session drinking, and just trying to bring that to present-day, you know, to current audiences, to present-day beer drinkers and have been since 2010, 2015, 16 onwards with Salem and then Brighton. You know, it's just uh it's living, it's a sense of living history. It connects us from now to then. So um tell us

Seance in Salem

SPEAKER_02

a little bit more about just uh your location as well. Um I mentioned it this at the top, but I just I want to talk about Salem since I've never been there. Um I want to have a seance. No, I'm just kidding. I just want to see Salem kind of through your eyes. Do you actually live in and around Salem or just kind of the greater Boston area?

SPEAKER_00

I live in the greater Boston area. I uh don't live in Salem. It's um it's a great town. I've usually not the most fan of Salem in October. Uh but for us as uh as notch, um, October is a great month. We get a lot of people in the door that some of them are visiting us for the first time. Um, some of them are not going there for the beer, but it's uh great to because these people were probably not where they're not gonna reach out to us in any other way. So it's good to have people that might have no idea of what or what notch is just coming to the door just because they're they're in town. We are um definitely embracing that. We are lately have have had a lot of conversation of kind of like being like a third space. So besides beer, we kind of kind of try to like cater to everyone just because we want to be a sort of like a communal um place where groups can come and just like spend time over beers, even though beer is the main thing that we do and the more most important thing, um we just want that like sense of community. So having all this group of people that are not usually in town coming in and just trying our things is just pretty good. Uh, but also specifically in the sale location, um, we have a lot of regulars that are so loyal to our brand. So I've always found that to be like the best for our uh breed as a whole. It's just like so many people that are always there all the time. They kind of hide a little bit in October. Um but uh yeah, it's just like it's a great time in the month, in the year for us, and we kind of like try to prepare. There's always this like uh with the staff, everyone's just like, oh my god, October is coming. Everyone is just like preparing for this month. So even though it's like a lot of tourists, it's it's still great.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, October is coming. Um, I know there is much more to Salem than the witch trials. Um, I was curious if it's haunted. I was curious if there's a sense of year-round Halloween, or is it really just kind of this explosion of interest in October? And if you were to visit any other time of year, you'd have a completely different experience.

SPEAKER_00

So I think overall is it's not as intense as like the rest of the year, it's not in as intense as October, but there's always people walking around in Salem, like all this sighting that people are going to, they're they're year-round. Right? I actually like recommend my friends to pick another time of year, and it's it you can do everything. So we see the crowds just like in a smaller scale, and I feel like the residents of Salem are also like kind of like all the the Halloween vibe and the decorations, and I'm saying if you walk around town, you can see everyone just like putting stuff on their their front yards, and we as a brewery we embrace it as well. We have this, we have crows, everyone in the brewery right now.

SPEAKER_02

And we have a reason in the brew house.

SPEAKER_00

We have this huge scrape crow. No one has guessed yet. I have to go count them. I do not know what the answer is. I saw the first one and I thought it was real, and then I was very confused. Uh, but there's a lot of them. So yeah, I think that's that's kind of like the theme of Salem, and everyone just like leans heavily into it, and I think that's what it makes it great.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I love it, and I think it's it's reflected in. I know that you all kind of reluctantly put a witch kind of back on your notch t-shirt and merch for the month of October. And I I again, you know, I know this is easily kind of overdone or over.

SPEAKER_00

We we just like feel uh that we can like kind of like honor the whole thing without just like going into like the wish trials, um kind of like money graph situation. We just try to make it more uh more like our own and you know respect the history and all that. And now we put a cat on it because we have a cat and he's um a little demon on himself.

SPEAKER_02

Nice. Uh well I'll say it again. Here's to the demons, whether that's the cat, whether that's the corn or the rice and your delicious adjunct lager. Um, and for

Czech core, Rot rotators

SPEAKER_02

any of the tourists that are visiting now, or for any of your regulars that are there year-round, um, let's talk a little bit about kind of core beers versus rotators. Um, I know you have a few that are basically around, uh Czech, we'll call it a session Pilsner, um, clocking in at 4%. Left of the dial, a British style IPA. Um Salem lager, your Hellas. Kolsch served by the Stange or by the Crons, which I love both options. You know, all of these beers are what, four and a half percent and under. Uh the crow I'm drinking right now is 4.2. So again, emphasis on historical styles, emphasis on session drinking, emphasis on small beers with big character. Um, so if these are year-round, then you know, I can pull up your tap list at any given moment and I will see a Czech pale lager, Tamavi, a Czech dark lager, uh Rotbier, a German red lager, Altbier, Zwickel beer, Keller beer, Rausch beer, a Caribbean punto pills, which I don't know if that was maybe part of your doing, thinking on uh your days in the DR and Presidente. Um and then a Hefeweizen, and maybe under other beers we'll have a pale ale, a cold IPA, a West Coast IPA, but those aren't uh the obvious players. You know, you're a logger-led, logger-centric group.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so we have a lot of year-round beers, if we think about it. So we we always have so we have uh the lucre faucets, and we always have four shek style lagers on. So we have a tenor, which is our 10-play-down pill lager, we have the standard, which is our shek style pills, is 12 play do. Um, we have uh poltamave, which is our uh dark uh lager, I'm sorry, amber lager. We have tamave, which is a dark lager, and then we seasonally have shurn it, which is a black uh check style lager, and those are always on. Um we try to have them always on. We incredible. We usually played a lot with the last couple years. We've been playing a lot um with different heritage grains. Um, and we've been just like taking the standard recipe and brewing it with like different grains. We have uh done it with a local uh local mulster from uh Massachusetts volley mold uh last year. We did something with uh grain from Indiana, um, but those are the core four that we always uh try to have on. Um for the German side, then those are a lot, but we usually try to kind of we try to either have Kulch or Albier on. We try to either have Vienna or Dunkel on. Um, we try to either have swickle or German afternoons, which are which is our German-style pills. Um, Hefeweizen, we have it in the summer. Um, pretty, pretty popular that beer is. So we have it for like four to five months out of the year. Um, and then for the full winter, we'll do stuff like the Rod beer, which is the uh Normberg Red Uh Lager. We'll do a stickle, we'll do uh Baltic Porter, um, and then we take the colder months to kind of like experiment um and create new things that we can like put in the menu. We have Dog and Pony Show, which is our New England Pele, which is extremely popular, so we brew that beer um year-round pretty often, and then um sometimes we'll do we did Garage Land, which is our take on a cold IPA kind of thing. Um and yeah, we recently put on a West Coast IPA, and we'll see how that goes. We try to, we are mainly a lager brewery, but we're not opposed to uh just tried or or shot on um different styles.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, of course. Um, and that the fact that you're able to produce so many different styles year-round with a with a core brewing team of three people and uh and a system, uh, you know, like I said, every batch, like every batch, small batch lager, you know, on a relatively small production setup. I mean, that's that's amazing. That's amazing. Um talking about like the Czech beers and the the faucets, I

Perfect Pour

SPEAKER_02

um the Lucre Faucets, did I read you have a draft system imported from the Czech Republic in uh in your Salem tap room? And I didn't know if that's like just a reference to Lucre Faucets, or is it literally the entire draft system? What's the story there?

SPEAKER_00

So not the entire draft system. We have uh Lucre Tower that has four faucets, and um basically in when Chris was opening this brewery, he uh wired this money to uh Lucre, which is the name of the company um to send the the tower and to the brewery, and he just did that and like wished for the best. Um and it showed up. It was it was a learning cure for um people trying to just uh explain how this faucet works, that you need that thick wet foam on top of your beer, that this is how it's intended to work. Um, luckily at this point, uh the Lucre faucets are pretty popular, they're pretty much everywhere by now, so people have a better um understanding of what it is and how it works. Um we spent a lot of time thinking about these beers, developing uh the recipes and just like brewing them. And uh, but it's also like important, like very important to us as well, the service part that we're um serving this beer appropriately, how they're supposed to be served, like a lot of thought is put into um the pouring of the beer, the glassware that we use, um, and all that we try to um kind of nail that part as well. Um we have amazing staff that are incredible uh pouring these beers out of the Lucre faucets. We a couple years ago we have like staff from from Lucre come visit us and they're just like praising our staff because they're like so good. Um we spent a lot of time training them. And yeah, it's is I think that's like the next thing after you spend a lot of time into these beers, just like we try to present them as best as we can in in serving and glassware and all that it takes.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah, it's uh I mean for some of the theater around beer, you know, it's a visual experience. We drink with our eyes first and foremost. Um so yeah, investing in you're investing all that time in your beer, you of course want to invest all that time in uh the people that are serving it, the people are pouring it and presenting it, and then of course in the glassware. Um, I think that was another example of just what makes notch so special, like investing in a Lucre Faucet and a Lucre Tower from like 2016 or whatever it whatever it was onwards. That was also not the norm about a decade ago. And again, we're enjoying the fruits of that now as it becomes more and more commonplace, more and more trendy. Um, that's extraordinary. And I think everything that you were saying earlier about your regulars and just the community of sailing.

Festivals, goths, pierogi

SPEAKER_02

Kind of contributes to this really just fun, quirky sense around the brewery and your tap room events of different festivals you do, of different events you do. I saw there's pumpkin carving, there's knights in armor engaging in medieval combat. You do a goth fashion swap. You have live music and have even done a Forever Lager music and beer festival. Of course, Oktoberfest and Stark Beer Fest definitely caught my eye, you know, with the with the hot poker in your in your uh your glasses of Doppelbach. Not even glasses, you do like traditional like Steins, I think, for it.

SPEAKER_00

Soin Kruges, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So again, all very interesting. And I don't know, can you just speak a little bit about? So who is kind of curating these events? Who is kind of creating these spaces and giving your tap room this kind of character, uh, the fun around the festivals that you throw? Where is this coming from? Is it the community of Salem looking in? Is it notch kind of looking out? Just what's the inspiration behind some of your events and some of your festivals?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so for some of our festivals are start there first. Um, it's kind of just like um us replicating this festival as I have like assisted for a while. Um, the Start Beer Fest, which is uh sort of like the higher ABB beer festival, is kind of like a spring festival in Germany. Um and the hot poker is something that we kind of like took borrow from uh historically, and another American brewery was doing it first too. Um, and for this we brew specific higher gravity beers that will do well uh with the loggerhead, which what it basically does is caramelizes the sugars in the beer, kind of like creating this uh sweeter kind of marshmallow flavor um to it, and people love that. It's pretty it's pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_02

Um I've never done it before, never had it before.

SPEAKER_00

We had Chris had a like a custom-made logger head that is um pretty wide, so it just needs to touch the beer for two seconds, and you have your cold beer, um, and then on top you have this like kind of warmer foam to it. So it's like a very interesting sensory uh thing happening when you get this like marshmallowy warm foam, and then you have the cold beer afterwards, is uh a pretty, pretty, pretty neat experience. So we'll recommend to anyone that hasn't done it before. And then the Oktoberfest is one of our uh biggest festivals that we do. Is we do it every year. We brew a fest beer just for it, and now we have both locations. We do it one day, Saturdays will be Brighton, uh, Sundays will be Salem. And it's basically just like a celebration, and it's really embraced by the both communities on both of our locations, and people just like have um such a great time. And uh yeah, we also have a Polish fest. Uh Chris' family um comes from Poland, so we do this uh early in the year. We have this um Polish style lager called Loiko, which is the last name from his uh I think great-grandparents. And yeah, it's also a huge celebration. We have old old town will come in, and I think for the other things, we lean into the community as well. Uh the goth uh swap, clothes swap. We have this um store that we collaborate in with with them in in a beer. So it's kind of like both ways. We kind of have our own things going on uh from notch to the outside, but we also lean into the community to create things that we think they will they will like, but also we want to be this space for the community as well, um to do things with us. And yeah, it's kind of like a two-way street, I feel.

SPEAKER_02

It's it's super cool. Um speaking to being Polish, this also seems to keep coming up on different episodes because talk talking with Tom at Goldfinger, talking with uh Dusan at Live Oak in one of our last episodes, you know, uh they both brew a Grodzicki, a Groat-style beer, um, and have both won awards for it, and they both have Polish roots to the point of even printing Nazdrovia on the can. And uh that you also share that at Notch, or at least among Chris's family. Um I mean, I think you regularly bring in a lot of creative food vendors as well. I've seen Lionheart Confections uh at your Brighton uh location. And uh, and I don't know if I'm even saying this right, but Jaju pierogi, Yayu Pierogi. Yeah. Um they probably have the single best Instagram account, the single best social media account I've ever seen. You know, so all of this just really adds to this really fun, festive, and creative spirit around both your locations. Um, I see a lot of David Lynch

David Lynch lagers

SPEAKER_02

references as well in your in your branding, in your social media. I've just who's the David Lynch fan. We're gonna give him a shout because of course rest in peace as of this year. Um, yeah, who's the David Lynch fan at Notch? And you have a couple different beers, right? There's uh Firewalk with me, which you sent me. Thank you. It is incredibly rare to get a Rousch beer in a box of beer, so thank you for that. You have the Black Lodge as well. So yeah, what's the who's the David Lynch fan?

SPEAKER_00

Uh so it's definitely Chris. Um and he's also mostly the one behind all over or most of our um beer names or a song from a band or something. Um, so yeah, it's um all that background uh with like movies and music. Um and we try to like reference it, uh, but it's definitely Chris who he gets the point on that one.

SPEAKER_02

Uh you know, yeah. Maybe we all think the decade we grew up in was the best, or the decade maybe we weren't growing up, but we were when we started to become aware of something and the world was much bigger than our own, right? So for me, it started with the crow and then moved on to David Lynch with a racer head and lost my way and roll holland drive and all that. So um, yeah, the 90s, they're coming back, or I'll say it again, maybe they never left. But um one more

J stands for James

SPEAKER_02

question specific for you, uh, Julady, uh, before we move on to some I like to ask everyone before we wrap up. Just some of uh your work with the Michael James Jackson Foundation, just speaking to brewers who share, speaking to mentorship. Can you tell me what your experience uh with them has been uh during your time uh here brewing in the States, uh how it might have helped you grow and flourish, and how you might be supporting it and giving back to it for that matter?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so being involved with the Michael Jackson Foundation has been like one of the best things that um has happened to me in being involved with beer. Um I actually did get my scholarship like three years ago, but the amount of people that I have met through them and the events that I've been able to go and the connections and the friendships that I've uh fostered through them is I think that's like beyond um even the scholarship that I got. Um, you know, brewing education is extremely expensive. Um and the whole idea behind this um foundation is just like bringing more uh people of color into the industry. We're here, we're doing great things, but just like just having that exposure to just like show um other people that it's doable and that they have your back. Um, so for me has been one of the best things. Um, as I said, I foster so many friendships and beyond having now a formal education in beer, I have this uh group of people that I can reach out at any time. And as I mentioned at the beginning, it's just like all community. Um, and just being able to have this incredible amount of people with incredible amount of knowledge in different areas of brewing, um, that you can reach out, just like pick their brains about anything, um, and just feeling like you are a part of something bigger. So anytime that they reach out to me what with whatever they need, which is like things like we need you to take uh a media training, or I we need you to do this interview. Can you like do a little video? It's like minimal with the the things that I get back, um, in in the sense of just having that support and just knowing that um these people have my back and we just continue to grow. Um, so yeah, for me it's like extremely important that that work that is being done, and I love being part of it. Um, and I think a lot how I can give back so other people can also um take advantage of it. So it's it's uh it's an amazing job that they're doing um overall, and I hope that it just continues to grow. That's really beautiful, it's great.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, really beautiful. I I mean I will say again, beer people are good people, and um the beer community is what yeah, I spent a lot of years just kind of lost in New York City, and the beer community is what made it special and significant and feel more kind of small and personal for me. Um so however you plug into that community, you know, it is worth worth cherishing and worth sustaining and worth supporting. I um yeah, my one, I'm not even gonna call this a critique or criticism. I think one suggestion to the Michael James Jackson Foundation is it might as well be called the Garrett Oliver Foundation. Yeah, I think the name kind of confuses people.

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah. I mean, he's the face of it. Oh and he's uh very good with words, he's a lot of fun. He's he's stepping down soon, so we'll have we'll have a new president soon. Okay, but yeah, but but I I I get where you're coming from.

SPEAKER_02

Uh yeah, I think it might be confusing for people from the outside looking in, but um, yeah, that it is a shout out to the the beer hunter, the historian, uh Michael Jackson, the British beer writer. Yeah, but I think uh, you know, maybe years ago working in New York, I might have been able to get to Garrett for an episode of No Life to Logger. I think he's too big now, but we'll see. We'll see. Garrett, if you're listening, I'm never gonna give up trying. We want you. Please do. Please do.

Puritan beer

SPEAKER_02

Um, okay, July. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story, for sharing Notch's story. Um, there's a few questions I just like to ask everyone before we wrap up. Um, there's a lot of dialogue around sobriety now, around temperance, around non-alcoholic beer, non-alcoholic everything for that matter. Um and that category has continued to grow in recent years post-pandemic, whereas you could argue the beer category in traditional alcohol has continued to shrink or become smaller in any case by by comparison. So, your thoughts on this, I think it's it's particularly meaningful to ask you because I know notch produces their own, right? You brew non-alcoholic beer, you do a Kraft Pilsner and a hazy IPA. So, your thoughts on the dialogue around uh NA beer and uh the NA beer you produce for that matter. How do you do it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so we do not brew it or own in Salem. We don't have the equipment for it, but we do have um uh New England hazy IPA, um, NA and uh NA pills. And yeah, we're all for it. As I mentioned before, we want to be this uh third space for people, and we understand that not everyone wants to drink beer, or not everyone can drink beer, so it's good to have a third option for um people that are just not um drinking alcohol for whatever reason that it is, and you know, it's always I think a good idea if you're just taking it slow or uh just not involving in alcohol drinking. So yeah, I feel like the industry is shifting, there's less um alcohol being consumed, uh, but in that sense, having options is always a good option, right? So we're we're on it, and I think it's it's a good thing, and I'm happy that now um technology is in a way that these NA beers are actually pretty good, you know? So you can you you don't feel left out, kind of, right? Or being like not pleasantly uh drinking something that it doesn't even taste like beer. Um so yeah, we're we're definitely pro-NA.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. The category has grown, the quality has improved, but I I think to your point, just to have options, to have alternatives. Uh, for the sake of your tap room being uh a gathering space for all, it's good to meet those options and meet those alternatives when you need it. Um so yeah, much agreed. Uh

Green Day Slappy Hour

SPEAKER_02

celebrity loggers, there's a few on the market. Um I'm just kind of curious what you think of that culture. And more specifically, if you were gonna, if you were gonna brew a celebrity logger at Notch, uh, who would it be with and why? And that can be a local celebrity, a national celebrity, an international celebrity, maybe someone uh speaking to your roots in the Dominican Republic. Just how would Notch do this if you were gonna do it?

SPEAKER_00

Um this will be like me.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, please.

SPEAKER_00

Personally, yes, um, I I find it pretty interesting, the whole celebrity alcohol overall. Yeah, because is it are they good really? I yeah, I have no idea, but if I were to brew a beer, I would like to brew a beer with Billy Joe Armstrong from Green Day. Please call me. I'll make it happen. I'm a big Green Day fan. So Billy Joe, please, whatever you want.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, uh, I love it. So, okay, I was right. The 90s are coming back, or maybe never left. Um, yeah, all right, Green Day, Billy Joe, if you're listening, yeah, notch is willing. And just for uh just for sake of sake of argument, so we can visualize it, what would the beer be? If Billy, if Green Day came to you and said, you decide what would you want to brew for them?

SPEAKER_00

I think uh for Billy Joe, I feel like it would be like either like a Pilsner or like a dry hop lager with like very modern hops, those like new priorities that are out there. I feel he has to be like bitter, uh, because it's you know pop punk, but not too bitter because it's not too punk. Oh, I love it. All right, they have a coffee, so maybe a dark lager, perhaps.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, all good things, Billy Joe. If you're listening, Green Day, if you're listening, uh yeah, that's a beer I want to drink. So um decoction mashing, you kind of already addressed this, and I know the answer is yes. And I always kind of like to put people on the spot at the end and say yes or no, one word. Uh, but you know, quickly just why or why not? Is it for sake of um kind of historical reenactment and doing what brewers before you have done to be as authentic to the style as possible? Or do you feel that there's a clear flavor sensory difference uh to decocted beers versus not?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, to both is you can definitely make amazing beer without decoction, but you need to admit that decoction really makes a difference

Decidedly Decoction

SPEAKER_00

in beer. Right? Uh so for us is a little bit of both, is we try to um historic historically kind of like brew these beers as best as we can. And for that, decoctions are part of the process. Um and but also we take a lot of um time and effort into the process of how we create beers and how we brew them, and luckily we have the flexibility to tweak our um decoctions in a way that fit better for specific styles. We are not decocting all of our laggers, we are decocting the the beer styles that are gonna benefit uh from the decoction. We're not decocting beers just because we're specifically doing this uh and the type of decoction that we do. Um it depends on the beer style that we brew it, and it has a specific purpose. Um, so it's a little bit of both. So there's a lot of meaning um for us in the process, specifically uh with decoction as well. But the short answer is yes to decoction.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the short answer is yes, and I think um every answer from every episode has been basically yes, no, and maybe, you know, uh to suit the beer and the fact that your brew house was built for it, of course, from the very beginning speaks volume. So yes to decoction. And uh

Tip your bartender

SPEAKER_02

is there anything else um you would like to share just on behalf of yourself, on behalf of Notch? And uh, what do you say to someone out there who's deciding on their first beer at age 21, pondering what might be their last beer at age 101? Uh, what do you want to say and share to beer drinkers out there?

SPEAKER_00

Um for people like starting drinking beer, I will say don't be discouraged if you do not like what you have. Um lean into your bartender, they know uh what they're selling, just like there will guide you. I feel like people kind of get put off when they try something and it's not the best, um, or it's just not within the profile of like things they liked. Um, so it's good to have a conversation. People will guide you, just like tell them what you like and just give beer a second try. There's um amazing beer out there, and I'm glad that the industry is kind of like coming for full circle again, and we're back into uh drinking lagers, drinking lower ABB beers, just kind of like leaning into beer uh as a social thing, um instead of just like getting hammered, I guess. Um but yeah, just there's so many things out there, but beer is still I think it's like better than ever at this point. I've in and breweries are just like being very mindful of uh what they're crafting now. Um so it it is a it is a good time to drink beer. So we come to the breweries.

SPEAKER_02

That's really encouraging and really inspiring. You know, I haven't quite thought of it that way, but I'm glad you say it that maybe now is a better time than ever to be a beer drinker, to be exploring beer, to be introduced to beer. Yes, trust your bartender. Yes, of course, tip your bartender. Yeah, definitely. But yeah, that your gateway beer no longer has to be, you know, hazy, pastry, everything, or on the other extreme end of the spectrum, like a really kind of thin uh macro lager. That there's a whole color and spectrum in between. The crow that I'm drinking right now is both malty and hoppy and low in alcohol and distinct. And like the best beers leave us just kind of speechless. It's not really fun to overanalyze them. But if I was drinking, I wouldn't necessarily guess there was corn in it. I just know there's something else going on, and it really kind of sparks my imagination uh as well as the palate. So thank you for sharing your beer with me. Thank you for sharing your time with me, Julady. Yeah, my pleasure. Um thank you for taking me to Salem and uh I can only hope to join you at Notch

Goodnight and Good Lager

SPEAKER_02

in person. So if you like what you're hearing, uh, yes, follow, like, subscribe, know life to locker. Uh, help us hit the road and make a better kind of beer show. Help us get to notch for Stark Beer Fest. And uh hopefully we will do all of this in person at some point, you lady. So as we get to where we're going, I always love to say it good night and good lager. And thank you so very much for joining us in the here and now. Cheers.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for having me. Cheers. No life to lager.

unknown

No life to lager.