No Life 'Til Lager Episode 22 - Josh Brengle x Hércules

No Life 'Til Lager Episode Twenty Two with Josh Brengle, head brewer at Compañia Cervecera Hércules.

Hosted by failed Master Cicerone® Adam Zuniga. Produced by Jeremy Batchelor.

No Life 'Til Lager theme song by The Bad Actors. Episode art by Amanda.

Follow @nolifetillager, https://nolifetillager.buzzsprout.com

Estrictamente Lagers - https://www.hotelhercules.com/the-brewery

Copyright 2026 No Life 'Til Lager

Transcript

Bienvenido Josh!

SPEAKER_04 0:14

Welcome to No Life to Lager, a show about lager beer, the brewers who make it and we that drink it. This is a conversation between two people over one fight. My name is Adam Zunaga. I'm a failed master citrone. I'm part of the creative team behind the Six Most Metal Breweries and Beer Like and Dots movie. And my guest today is Josh Bringle. He is the head brewer at Campana Cervecera Hercules. That is in the city of Cuerataro, Central Mexico. Cheers and thank you and welcome, Josh.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

No, thanks. I'm flattered and stoked to be here. Um first of all, cheers. Thanks for thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_04 0:53

Uh we are stoked and thankful to have you. We are on the same continent, but this is a first for no life to logger uh from a different country. We are so grateful to have you join from Mexico and give your perspective on lager beer and craft beer and how cerveza Hercules kind of fits within this dialogue uh locally, regionally, nationally, internationally. It's a really exciting moment for us. So thank you again for joining.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Cool, yeah. And I'm glad you said continent too, same continent, because you'd be surprised how many people in the states uh say South America when referring to Mexico or or even sometimes Central America, but yeah, we were definitely um North America.

SPEAKER_04 1:36

So yeah, I would say now more than ever, uh, it's important to remember that we are on the same continent. And a beer is what helps bring us together and cross those borders or any perceived divide. So we're gonna talk more and more about how beer looks south of the border and to your from your perspective to the north.

Humble Sea on deck

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Um but uh first tell me a little bit about what we're drinking. So uh I saved these cans and I have to give a shout out to Nick Sanchez at Humble Sea for holding on to uh their ninth anniversary collaboration with you. Um it is uh Humble C's ninth anniversary, Lewis Raceway dry hopped Italian pills clocking in at 4.9% alcohol. It definitely smells dry hopped. Tell me a little bit about the beer in my hand and how the collaboration came to be.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Well, I gotta reach back into the archives here because we we planned this like late last year, I think. Um we had uh a few collabs planned in California, uh one with Ism um and another one with Humble C. So we we uh I think we actually did the or made the the brew or made the beer in uh February. So it's been a little bit, but I do remember uh we talked about several different lager styles. For their anniversary, they did they were sure they wanted to make a like a lager with us. Um that's kind of one of the things like uh with Hercules, where I'm at now, you know, um we make we make plenty of different styles, but I think in the beer world, our lager lagers tend to resonate with people a little more than anything else. So when another brewery comes over or when we do something else like with another brewery in the States or in Europe or wherever, it tends to the conversation is always like talking about lager. So we end up always making lager, and I'm totally cool with that, by the way. But but yeah, we haven't um we haven't really made a lot of Italian pills over the years, you know. We've experimented around like a lot of the different, you know, lager styles that you can, and and even styles with styles within styles, like regional differences between Hellas, you know, like the country Hellas, let's say, and Amunic Hellas, Munich style Hellas, you know, we we kind of and then everything in between. So we we always mess around there um to putting our own spin on things, but I would say like um yeah, with with them, the Italian pillars thing came up, and I was like, yes, let's do it, you know, because yeah, it's it's one of those styles we just don't have so much experience with. Um, so it's a blend of hot varieties. If you give me a minute, I'll check which ones they were. I actually forget, but um I have maybe it says it on there.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

It's Callista and Tango, um, yeah, which is a really interesting choice. Um pronounced aroma, pronounced a flavor. In the most simplest terms, uh Italian Pilsner is a dry hop piltner uh with what would be considered German noble style hops, usually being used in a more unconventional way, like not so much for bittering as for aroma and flavor. But you chose two modern German hops that don't have those classic noble qualities. They're much more tropical fruit for it it really shows. And whatever magic you all did in the brew house, um the hops haven't oxidized at all. It still is really vibrant, it's still extremely refreshing. It's still a pilsner and the hops aren't beating you over the head, but it's noticeably different and it's still fresh. So job well done to you, Josh. To you, Nick at Humble Tea. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Yeah, they have a they have a great team there. And and you know, when we uh we were there for the brew day, you know, they they definitely pay attention to the details, which in a beer like that you have to. So and we were stoked to do something with uh Calista Tango, you know, kind of some of the newer, you know, Bavarian varieties that are coming out and uh over the last few years. And uh for us, like with the whole West Coast Pills craze, which those are great too. Like I I I don't discriminate too hard on any beer style, but I love those. But yeah, it's hard to find the pills sometimes and in in in those categories. And and the idea was to also you know make a beer with new world hops that still tastes like a pills in a way. Yeah, so I love it. Like I'm taking your word for it because I haven't tried it.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

So yeah, and it sounds like it sounds like you will uh coming up. But again, you know, part of why we started this podcast was because we missed the flavor of malt, but uh lager can be such a great showcase for hop flavor as well. And oh, you succeeded here. Uh it's a really beautiful vibrant beer. Um tell me what you have in your hands before we move on.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Uh, right now I'm drinking our export hellas, which is called uh Gold Hute, which just means like uh golden hats in in in German. But uh we don't make it that often, so when we do, it's just uh it's like if you want to picture like somewhere in between like a Hellas and a Fest beer, maybe so maybe like 5.6, 5.7% alcohol. So it just tastes like a Hellas, it just has a little more alcohol and a little more body, maybe. So it's nice.

SPEAKER_04 6:44

Well, if

Distro to Disney World

SPEAKER_04 6:45

brewed for export, at some point I hope I will get to try it. I don't know if you all do you distribute um export at all outside of Mexico to the United States, or no such luck, not yet.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Uh yeah, I mean we we do like work with Disney World. Um, unfortunately, not your Disney, but oh uh the the the Disney in um Orlando, or not Orlando, it's Lake Buena Vista, but anyway, technicalities that for I'm from Florida, so like that's things that we always say. People are like, yeah, Disney's in Florida. I'm like, no, it's not, it's outsided, but whatever. Um and uh so we send some beer to Disney. We send also like like we'll send a container. Disney takes a big part of that for their Epcot, you know, in we're in the Mexico part of uh of Epcot. And um we move a decent amount of beer there, and we also, you know, we have a distributor there that we work with that sends some beer throughout the state, so it's not a ton. Um honestly, we're just so far from meeting current demand here in Mexico that I mean good problems to have. We just haven't been able to uh to um facilitate that and get but yeah, we do have interested people in in California for sure. Um Texas, you know, conversations are there, just just trying to get the beer, the beer out. But for anyone listening in California, we'll be at the Firestone Walker invitational um uh next month. So hopefully you guys can stop by the booth and try some beers.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

Uh so much to look forward to, and like you said, good problems to have. And we'll say Disney and Florida uh is truly the happiest place on earth as a result.

Meet the brewer

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Um you said you're from Florida. Let's talk a little bit about you, kind of your past uh before we get up to present and look toward the future. Um, just tell us a little bit about uh who you who you are as a human being, as a human doing before you became a human brewing. Um what's your story? What are some of the other jobs you had and what ultimately led you to turn this passion into a profession? Tell us about you, Josh.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Yeah, so like I I you know, before professional brewing, I was homebrewing a lot, which obviously that's a really common, common story. Um uh I had had several jobs, you know. I worked uh I had I like cut cut lawns, like I was doing that when I was a teenager, trying to make money, buy records and stuff. You know, I love music, so I was playing in like punk rock and heavy metal bands, you know, um around that time.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

Um another common theme to most brewers I talked to, and something you and I definitely have in common. And well, that is worth mowing the lawn. Uh yeah, good taste in music, good taste in beer seem to go hand in hand. Um, what else?

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Yeah, so I had a few jobs, worked at a chocolate factory, like making, I was like doing shipping and receiving there. And through that job, I also worked at Burking for a little bit, like when I was 16 or whatever. Like, I don't know, dude. I was just all over the place and and and doing whatever I could to like make a buck in this crazy uh late-stage capitalist society. Um, but but uh so uh through FedEx or through uh sorry, through that chocolate factory job, I was working fit uh shipping and receiving. I got a job at FedEx and ended up working there. And and that was the time I really got into homebrewing. I worked with a guy at FedEx that like uh he was he was doing like all extract kit homebrewing, like not even adding hops, it was like pre-hopped extract. So just like all you need is a stove. I don't even think he was like, I don't remember all the details, but this is like 20 something years ago now. But anyway, um he kind of showed me like I was like, oh, that's really cool. And uh he kind of showed me what was up. I had a friend that had joined the Navy and he said, like, I have all this stuff and I have this Mr. Beer Kit I've never used. If you want it, take it. So I was like 19 years old making like some god-awful concoctions in my parents' house, you know. Just like just got out of high school and and you know, I was um also really into skateboarding. So I was all my all my skateboarding buddies, you know, we'd we'd we'd get done for the day and they'd come back to my house and drink this stuff and probably be like, I don't know, man. I don't at the time I guess it was passable. Like I don't think it was uh I don't think it was like that bad. You know, I I was I think in retrospect I was pitching enough yeast to make sure uh that there's no like contamination issues, but I would say the rest was pretty um uh subpar at best. So anyway, like I did that for did that for a while into my 20s. I'm like driving trailers at FedEx, like 18 Lilers and stuff, and doing this homebrewing thing. And I don't know, I had a uh my best friend at the time push me into like all grain. He's like, why don't we just see what this is about? We're getting we're kind of also getting older at the time, and we're uh you know trying these beers, which in Florida and and the early yachts, there weren't there weren't like a ton of choices, let's say, but um we would try anything we could find or get our hands on. And and when we did find something, you know, kind of cool or worth it, you know, did kind of inspire us. So um yeah, there was like a point where we did step up, start doing like all grain brewing. I know I'm like rambling here, but um not at all.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Not at all.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

But yeah, but it it was uh it was cool to and there wasn't that much information available, you know. There were books and you did have like uh it just wasn't like a thing that had blown up yet, and the internet was around, obviously, but wasn't like there's just a lot of bad information everywhere. So like uh we we kind of or I kind of you know leveled up and got got into all grain brewing, and then I just like really got obsessed with it, you know. I I don't think I think if I hadn't done that and I kept doing this extract stuff, I just would have quit. But I think what I really needed was the challenge, and that kind of challenged me and opened me up to like way more beer styles that I knew existed. So uh traveling traveling to Europe, you know, throughout those years and trying to find as many beers as I could and learn as many, as much as I could about those classic styles and and also newer ones too. Um and got really involved in the homebrew club, you know. So I'm like this kid, uh I guess I'm like 23, 24, something like that. And I'm just yeah, I'm just totally all in and um judging and doing all that stuff that homebrewers do. And I love my hobby, and I was like, yeah, I don't want to ruin this hobby. So I I worked part-time at some brew pubs a little bit in Florida. There wasn't a lot going on around that time in in Florida, let's say, like, well, maybe in California and in places like Oregon and Cal Colorado, and maybe a little bit in in the Northeast and Midwest, there was some stuff happening, but Florida didn't have anything going until um let's say 2008, 2009. So worked at some brew pubs. Uh at that time I I ended up like winning this Florida Brewer of the Year Award for my homebrewing stuff. And um I guess I had some friends that at this new brewery had just started called Cigar City. So I had already decided I don't want to work in this industry. It's like too stressful. Everyone I know knew in it at the time, you know, it's like don't ruin your hobby. You're you're you're doing great, you know. Yeah, you know, just just keep, you know, I I went to school, I had like an anthropology degree, so I was like thinking about what's next. And um, yeah,

Hecho a Cigar City

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Cigar City called me up soon after they opened and they're like, Yeah, you know, we saw you won this thing. Um, we tried your beers at festivals. I kind of knew these guys a little bit. And um, they're like, Do you want to come here and be a brewer? And I'm they had so they had like I hadn't seen hype like that before in any Florida brewery or any brewery really in the southeast. Because they just came on the scene and it was like you just got to see how far the ceiling was on like demand and and beer geekiness and all that. Like, like they just really um uh were able to create and harvest that demand, I think. Um long lines, those were the days. So like I was like thinking about it, I'm like, so I'm gonna take this job, like earning half of what I'm making right now, and I'm gonna work the night shift. And everyone's telling me not to do it, and I ended up being like screw it. I have to see what's on the other side of this door.

SPEAKER_04 15:26

It's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

And and um if I I can always go back to whatever I was doing before, you know, it's fine. But uh, so I I jump shipped, uh ditched my real job, working third shift at Cigar City, and then um yeah, worked my up way up there pretty quick. You know, we were just growing so fast. So I ended up uh becoming lead brewer and then uh production manager pretty pretty quick for a guy with limited pro professional experience. And uh I was just hungry for it. You know, I really wanted I really wanted it, and um, I felt like it was my calling in a way, like it was something that felt like I was pretty good at and uh quick to adapt and learn, which you kind of have to be. And and not only that, I always say like those, I don't know, from 2008, 2009 until like 2016, maybe if you were in the beer industry, you you you just earn exponential experience just because most of those breweries were growing so fast and way too fast, honestly. But yeah, that's that's kind of yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

So congratulations all around. Much agreed all around. It's good to have friends that are willing to drink your mediocre homebrew. And I've heard that every step of the way from basically everyone that's been on No Hype to Lager. But I maybe I knew that you had Cigar City in your background. It's so exciting to think about first of all just those years when like craft beer was still kind of young and flooding in the US, even though it'd been like established on the roots for decades prior. Those years of rapid growth and expansion when it still felt so new and so fresh, were so exciting. And it's incredible to think of when Cigar City was new. I I I mean, I remember when God, how do you say it? Gili, what's what's the IPA? The claim to find out, yeah. Yeah, I remember when that hit New York City. I mean, Cigar City was known and loved. Now, I didn't know that you were such a big part of it. Um, did you ever cross paths with Eddie Torres while you were there?

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Yeah, yeah. He came on um forget which year, but he did like South Florida sales for us. So yeah, I don't stay in touch with him too often. Like we just don't cross paths, but uh yeah, we worked together for some years. He's a cool guy.

SPEAKER_04 17:47

Small world. Shout out to Eddie, host of the RRBG podcast. I mean, I've been on that one, so if you haven't done it yet, by all means join Eddie for an episode.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Yeah, it's a that's a cool podcast. I listen occasionally, it's cool.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

Yeah. Um, again, recurring themes across the board, but what a small world it is, and we're never more than one degree separation apart. So I'm I'm really glad to know Cigar City

FL to MX

SPEAKER_04 18:10

is part of your story. And were you were you born and raised in Florida?

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Yeah, so I I kind of skipped over, I I went kind of straight to the beer stuff, but like uh yeah, so I was born in Tampa, grew up in Orlando, um, you know, went to you know everything from middle school to high school there, um just north of Orlando. So like um when Cigar City called me, that was another you know, part of the equation was I couldn't just like quit my job and and and you know work there. I had to move to move back to Tampa, which was like it was a big decision at the time, you know, being like 20-something-year-old kid. So like when um when I did that, I had to move back over there. And I yeah, I lived there until 2016 when I moved to Mexico. So um and did that year I'd yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:01

Well, that's why I asked, just how so now we know our brewer and we want to get to know our brewery, but how did you make the leap from Florida to Mexico? Was it was it with the job at Hercules? Um, just what led you from A to B to C and where you are as of today?

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Yeah, so like when I was at Cigar City, I was uh, you know, mostly uh well yeah, I was running the plant and with with Madison, who was my boss at the time. Um and uh I was tasked with a lot of the malt procurement and like uh you know we had uh invitation every year to go up to uh Canada where our malt's power was based, Canada malting, um in Alberta. So we'd go up there and uh the year the first year I went, um I I got there a few days early because they had like this thing where you could go explore BAMP and like the Canadian Rockies and all that, which is just if anyone listening hasn't been, it's just really freaking cool. And we drink, we had a group up there of brewers, industry people, and we were just drinking tons of beers and hanging out every day. And yeah, I met this girl from Mexico City who ended up becoming my wife, you know, she was working for uh constellation brands at the time. And congratulations. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

So it was a happy ending to this ongoing story. That's wonderful. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Yeah, so um, you know, we were you know dating internationally for because she would travel to the US a lot, so I'd meet her up in whatever city she was in, you know, at the time. And I would also travel to Mexico City often. And you know, we were just dating and then found out we were pregnant, you know, and then uh next thing you know, um, yeah, I had to make a make a move. And I honestly, you know, full transparency, I was also, you know, considering uh moving out of the country, you know. I had a good friend of mine started the first craft brewery in Vietnam, so I was kind of thinking about that and are thinking about at least getting out of the out of Florida, you know. But um, so it was like a natural type thing, but it just maybe expedited that that move and and and and where I was gonna move to, it kind of decided for for me in a way. But yeah, I was ready to kind of get out of the states, maybe. But um, yeah, so it it was it was it was time and and it was cool. So I came here, I didn't really know any Spanish. Um look for a job everywhere. You know, there's not so many breweries in this country, this country, Mexico, I mean. So like I sent my resume everywhere. I was like, well, I'm a you know the big cigar city dude, so someone's gonna hire me. Like, no, I didn't get that response. And and I I was kind of uh losing some uh losing hope and thinking, like, well, I'm just gonna have to work in a different industry or do something else. And uh Luis, who's the owner uh here at Hercules, you know, they were really small at the time. He he somehow Uh got my resume in his hand and call me up and the rest is kind of history, you know.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

Yeah. I think uh we'll say maybe Lager transcends most languages, but um I really wasn't sure if you had Mexico um in your past, if you were uh part Mexican, part Hispanic, where you grew up, where you're from, and kind of what led you to the here and now. So that's that's

Meet the brewery

SPEAKER_04 22:25

just amazing. Um let me tell you what I know about Hercules, and then maybe you can tell everyone listening uh what else, like what we don't know. But I I think it was founded in 2011. Um it's named after a textile factory and a working class neighborhood that uh kind of rose around this classic statue of Hercules son of dude. It's very striking. Um it's now a 40-room hotel that offers live music. Um there's three restaurants, including a bar and beer garden. And I want to understand the full scope of your operation as well. There's also a uh an Almaston that's uh it's more in like the central city, that's a general store and a beer garden in its own right. Um and I then I think you have two more tap rooms in Mexico City as well. There's a Lager Bar, which is strictly lagers, no hype, and then there's uh tienda de cerveza Hercules, uh, which is some hype, but still lagers. And uh let me know if I'm getting the full extent of this, just like who is Hercules? How did it begin? Um, and how has it grown to the point that your paths align to be what I think is now um you could call it a regional craft brewery, or just a regional brewery uh in the country of Mexico. So what did I get right? What did I get wrong? And what else should we know about Hercules?

SPEAKER_00 23:42

No, all that's all that's pretty much correct. Uh well yeah, all of that is is correct, I should say. Uh I think uh emphasizing some points, maybe the when you come here, the hotel is a thing. Um, but I would say most people are coming here for the beer garden experience. So we have like a 1400-person beer garden. Um and yeah, it is an ex-textile plant. You know, the textile plant ran from like the 1840s. It's the second, I think, I think it's the second oldest textile plant in all of Latin America. And it was like the one of the biggest and the top three biggest uh of its day as well. Um I mean, plenty of Mexican presidents have been here over the years, and and they built the railroad that goes all the way to the United States, you know, because that's where the cotton was coming from at the time, uh, all the way from the US to here, you know, because of this plant. So like that that that that railway is still used to to move things back and forth from Mexico City and even further south, even from Guatemala, all the way to um the US border in Texas. So um before before that it was, I mean, this place even has like pre-Hispanic roots. So before Textile Plant, it was a convent. Before that, it was a mill owned by uh some of the indigenous families here in the area that are if you're from here, you might know they're kind of famous. So um, and yeah, there's still a pre-Hispanic aqueduct that you can see here, you know, on site. Um so yeah, I think I think the the historical part, and and like I said, I I I was an anthropology major, so like all that stuff is what really grabbed me here even more than the other possibilities of of brewing and all that. I was just super stoked on on everything that this place had to offer.

SPEAKER_04 25:32

Um and then I just have to say that real quick, the the history and the setting is like one of the most visually stunning sites I've ever seen for a brewery, for a brewery. It's just so so well curated, so artistic, so creative, so tasteful in the way you project yourself to the world. It just almost looks like a movie set. It has to be one of the most stunning sites I've ever seen for a brewery. Is all the brewing actually done at the hotel site, or do you have a production brewery um, as mentioned, kind of closer to the to downtown uh Guaritaro to the city center? Where is all the brewing done?

SPEAKER_00 26:13

So, so yeah, the the the actual brewery, the beer garden, um, and the hotel and all everything in between uh is all here on one site, you know, in the neighborhood of Hercules, which is like just outside of Kedatero, it's a 10-minute walk or 15-minute walk to the um to what is called Kedatero. So we're technically in the city, uh, but it's in a it's in another neighborhood um called Hercules. Um downtown we have like uh like you said, the Almacen, which is like our general store, and then we have another bar in South Central Quedatero, and then uh we're opening up uh possibly a new place downtown. Um so that yeah, and then we like you said we have Auger Bar and then the tienda in Mexico City, and we're opening up a new one in Guadalajara, also. So um it's a country with with uh some extreme taxation as far as alcohol goes. So um it's really the only way to like get ahead is to just open up your own tide houses and do that. I mean that that's the way it's worked for centuries, I think, in in parts of Europe. So yeah, yeah, it works here too, you know, just trying just trying to also control the history of the narrative, you know, try to have like uh your own people there running things and you know getting the freshest beer in all these locations that you as you can. Um but yeah, I think um it's it's just a fascinating place. It is one of those places where I, you know, full full honesty, also like when I when I was looking into where to go, you know, Luis had kind of sent me an offer and um I looked at where Creditar was because I was living in Mexico City, and I said, Man, that's like three hours away. I can't work there. That's or that's what I'm thinking at least. And I ended up uh getting on a bus one day when I first moved here. I came out here just to see what it was all about, and I was completely for it. I was like, man, this is just fascinating. Like um, like, and it didn't really have the beer garden yet. The hotel, there was no hotel. I mean, there was nothing that you kind of see in the photos today was what it, but I just saw the historical relevance and also like the the the overall like footprint that they had and like the ideas they had, and Luis was super ambitious and still is. Um, and then part of what you see online is you know, we have a great social media team, Diego. Um, and his team really just knock it out of the park with um yeah, with the imagery, you know, trying to just showcase what the place is about.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

So it's just stunning. And you know, we can debate, you know, as like what's projected on social media, does it always reflect the reality? But from this distance, it looks like you've created a space where I want to live and work and drink. I mean, it's just so striking um and so rich in history. So due to everything you've created, and did you mention, like, I don't know, the the the owner or the founder? Was it Luis?

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah, Luis, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:18

Is that the so Luis uh Luis Raceway? I'll show the can here. Is that a reference? So the Humble C collab is named for him, essentially. And another fun fact, you can actually pull this sticker right off uh the label. So watch them all, yeah. I'll say again, happy anniversary, humble C. Um, but that's just amazing. And your reference to tight houses, you're basically saying that brewing companies across Mexico, they all own their own bars, they all own their own pubs. And does that apply to the to the big guys and the little guys as well?

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Oh no, I no, I think that's just in our case. And uh some of the there's other breweries that have that same type of model are starting to adapt to that, but at least when I moved here, um a lot of the model was you know just the dis distribution model, the the um get the beer out, you know. And the big guys are all uh you know, let's say the Corona Monelo guys, you know, which is ABI and Constellation or Heineken for the other guys, which are Jose Keys and all that. I don't think they have any. They might sponsor, like if you have a restaurant, they'll come in with money and just make sure you're exclusive with them, and they'll buy you a bunch of POS stuff, and you know, so the place looks cool.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

But I um we're not that different, my friend, from one country to the next, and you know this well. Uh another recurring theme on this show, the breweries that are finding success are creating pubs or multiple tap rooms as a destination to serve their community, and that's also how they're making money and continuing to grow in the process rather than chasing national distribution.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Um yeah, I think it's the US, the US revival of that uh, you know, old concept is what um made us, you know, remember that in when we had uh when we had uh maybe hard times, you know, in distribution or whatever, like let's just distribute less and let's just you know take care of our margins and try to um put the customer first. Everyone wins. I mean, like we'll we have a little bit uh um I think like uh an assurance towards fresher beer, you know, we can we can we can just check all the boxes and give give the customer better experience and also you know we can maybe try to make a little more money in a country that let's be honest, it's super difficult to run a brewery in.

SPEAKER_04 31:46

Yeah. Um I want to hear more about

Cerveza Artesanal

SPEAKER_04 31:50

that. Like when we speak to craft cerveza in Mexico, um, is that the word? Like, do you distinguish yourselves as a craft brewery among others? Um I am really curious. Like, is it still kind of uh like a young and fledgling industry in that respect compared to the United States, or is it well established when you're looking for it? Just tell us a little bit about craft beer, craft breweries in Mexico. Um, how are they distinguished from everyone who you just mentioned, like the whole like constellation uh uh Reyes kind of Corona modelo, kind of those powerhouses? Just what does craft brewing look like in Mexico?

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Yeah, so super uh in general, I would say super small. Um even even the plant sizes down here are quite small, just because you know, yeah, like if you if you have money and you're trying to get in into this, I mean you could say the same in the US, but uh at least for some time and and especially these days, that it's not the business to get in if you want to get rich. Here it's definitely not just because it's it's so highly regular regulated and it's also uh very hot heavily taxed. So uh we do call we do use the word uh in Spanish, we'd say artisanal beer. So cerveza artisanal nice is the way we would we would say it or explain it to people. And most people, especially so breaking it down a little further, you know, the closer you are to the US, probably the the the more advanced um the brewery is gonna be. Uh and maybe a little bit better uh in general, beer could be better, you know. Let's say so, like the the breweries that are up near uh uh Tijuana area, like just south of San Diego, um, and maybe the breweries that are just south of Texas and Monterey, like you might see in general better quality beer in those types of areas. Guadalajara is also a pretty decent beer city as well for Mexican craft beer. Um, but I would say like uh most of the time if you're traveling and you see craft beer from the Mexican perspective, it's like artisanal obviously doesn't mean the same as craft. It doesn't directly translate the same, you know, it can, but I think you think of something just super small and handmade when you say artisanal. Like maybe maybe you think of that when you say craft also, but um, but I guess I guess for me, like most people, unfortunately, I think in this country don't associate craft with quality. Um so it's a it's a harder sell here, maybe, like is a is a good way to put it. And most people also are oblivious or don't know uh that uh their favorite brewery, you know, like whether it's Corona or whatever, you know, um or their favorite beer, is not owned by Mexicans anymore. So like there's a pretty big PR campaign to keep that, you know, pretty quiet when that stuff did happen back in the day when those trans when those acquisitions did go down. So like the the typical mindset might be, well, why would I pay this many pesos for a beer that's you know artisanal and I can't uh or craft and I can't guarantee any quality on it. I know what Corona tastes like, and that costs like four times less. And I so I'm just gonna go with the safe bet. So there is uh yeah, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 35:21

I not to interrupt, I just I will keep emphasizing we are more alike than not, and I think both the trends and the ebb and flow that you're seeing in Mexico are what's happening in the states now. Um, craft beer is not as closely associated with quality, maybe as it was in the years that you and I both were kind of growing up or coming up within it, just because it's not quite as popular as it is right now, so it's not moving quite as quickly. So the perception is it might not be as fresh or high quality and it is more expensive. So that's something that craft brewers are up against. Um and on that same point, kind of not understanding that something positioned as the great American lager might not be a great American loger or an American logger at all anymore, truth be told, you know, for sure, for sure. We can argue, I mean, how much that really matters or not, but it's a similar perspective from a from a customer point of view. So I think craft brewers are kind of up against much against this, uh, much against the same, uh, much of the same in both the US and in Mexico, which is which is really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Yeah. Yeah, it's I think it's similar. Uh maybe there's nuance there. You know, the the I would say the the the inherent poverty here in Mexico, you know, is like 60 plus percent, you know, um, you know, low-level income. Um, so a lot of people don't have that opportunity uh or or or can't, and that's one of our goals as a company is to make craft beer, you know, affordable to to everyone. Try to try to try to make make sure that people that live here in this neighborhood and in this state and also in this country, you know, that um they could figure out uh and I think that's also Luis's like mindset, you know, like he's always mentioned that he wants to be like the new glaris of Ketatero, you know, like just be the beer that everyone thinks about when you say Ketero. Like it doesn't matter where you're from or what you how much money you make, like you say, yeah, we drink this. So like like a landmark, a social landmark, or sorry, like a I would say like a yeah, so I don't know. It's it's it's hard to explain, but yeah, something like that. I get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

I get it, and I love it. I mean, that's probably why Nuglaris hasn't had to venture really that far out of Wisconsin, I think, where it is, because again, they serve and support their community, they make their beer as affordable and accessible and uh high quality as they possibly can to its surrounding environment, and it's self-sustaining and supported back, um, which is a beautiful, beautiful thing. And uh again, a good model for what would be considered trying, challenging times. Um can I ask, like on

North of the border

SPEAKER_04 38:05

that note, just looking north, like crossing the border back over? I mean, do you feel that America is still kind of like the industry leader? Call it craft beer, micro microbrewery, um, small batch beer, artisanal beer, whatever we name it. Like, do you feel like you look like the you look to the states to kind of follow the example uh or the trends that inform what you're doing at home? Or is that not necessarily the case right now?

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Uh maybe, yeah, for guidance, I think it's it's there. I mean, I I have to I have to say like like times suck for breweries right now, but it's there's never been a better time to be a beer drinker. Like you can go, yeah, you can you can walk down to your local and and I know you're saying about shelf life stuff or like maybe it's moving slower, but about package beer, let's say like but I would I would say like when you're talking about the ubiquity of breweries and and and the the just the sheer amount of uh beer that you can have access to in styles that are if you know where to shop, you know, and you know uh your local breweries, let's say, you know, you can easily have just amazing beer experiences every day of your life if you want. So um, but yeah, I think we look we look towards the US, you know, we I I it's just uh there's so many data points there. I mean, there's like uh so many breweries doing different things, and and now because of podcasts like your your own and and uh the internet in general, and um we have access to just so much information to see how how how things can work and and what didn't work. And Mexico's a I mean some styles may uh maybe don't work here, like uh maybe in this part of Mexico, it's also a very regional country. There's there's just like the US, you know, people have their their tastes and their customs and every part that are different. So sure. Um so for us, you know, I think we at least personally, you know, talking about myself, you know, I try to always look at what's happening in other parts of the world and and and see if we can learn learn something. Is there a lesson there or or was that just um a one-time thing, you know? Because probably there's a new new beer style that just is killing it in a certain part of the world right now or in the US that maybe the people just aren't ready for here or just don't like.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

So yeah, that is a that is a a holistic approach and an international view to brewing that informs you. Um that's excellent. Can I uh can I also ask? So you said Hercules, um, so you're about three hours north of Mexico City and maybe 90 minutes away from San Miguel. Does that sound about right? So I I've landed in Mexico City, I've traveled to San Miguel, I so regret that I didn't know you were stop along the way. Um but you've given me every every reason to come back at this point. Um, but I uh the the reason I ask is um uh

Mexican Lager

SPEAKER_04 41:10

for the country as a whole, but also regionally, and this this came up a lot in the episode with Chris at Figaroa Mountain just like talking about Mexican lager as a style in its own right. Um, is that how you regard it? Like a corn-based lager, do you consider that kind of local and specific to Mexico? Or is that a little bit talking about again being on the same continent, but is that kind of like a like a US or a uh a northern North American approach to Mexican-style lager? Um, tell us, please.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Man, it's uh it's a super tricky uh thing to get around just because it's very complex. Uh you know, all the Mexicans will say down here, like any lager made in Mexico is a Mexican lager. So if we made like a if we made like a Czech style pills down here, it's still like a Mexican. I I think that's just to cop out, maybe sometimes to not answer the answer the question. But I do think, you know, like if you look at I mean just look at the big guys, forget, forget, you know, craft beer exists, and you go like, okay, what happens when you have like Pacifical and then you have Bohemia Bohemia um pills, which is like very aggressively hopped. I forget how many pounds per barrel go in that thing on the hot side, but someone once told me uh had it had that information or worked there. Um it's it's it's an insanely high highly hopped beer. So like um both are considered on on at least in our market uh uh to be you know national lagers, Mexican lagers. So there's just a huge amount of um I would say like uh stylistic, you know, um stylistic intent, you know, can be one way or another, I guess. So like um from the way I see it, you know, and also corn is a thing, but the corn that people know Mexican lagers for is most likely, you know, either a a type of syrup or or it could be I know all all those breweries do have uh capability for cereal cooking and for mash cooking, but um I know based on market price of corn versus syrup, um they might go one way or the other um based on what what what's needed or what's better for margin that year. So um interesting. And then and then also rice is like a big component too. Like like some of your favorite Mexican laggers might actually have rice instead of corn.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

So but if you wheel that back to like the craft world, you know, we are in a country with 10,000 different corn varieties, you know, you can go make yourself crazy just just trying to experiment with as many as you can. Um and uh but yeah it it's a hard thing for me to define living here just because uh for me it's I I guess uh such a broad style, you know. I think what what people want, you know, uh when they say Mexican lager, um when you say it, uh people are looking at Ticate, Pacifico, um, and maybe Corona and a few others, uh, is is kind of like the the if if if I'm a US brewery and I put that on the board, there's kind of an expectation at the tap room then by the client.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

It's true.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Yeah. And if you if you throw out, like I mentioned, bulimia pills, you know, they might be like, wow, this is good, but this is really hoppy. And I don't know if I identify this as a Mexican lager. So one thing is like what it is, another thing is how it's identified, and how um, yeah, I mean, that's just like with any product on in the world, you know. Like, so like we have our own ideas about Chinese food, but maybe uh again, there it's very regional and and yeah, you know, so it just uh I guess I'm not really answering your question, but like it's like you are actually like across the board.

SPEAKER_04 45:17

It's just not that it's not that simple. It's much more complicated. I think what you're doing, what Hercules is doing, I mean, it just challenges uh definitely challenges like the American perspective of Mexican beer and the American idea of what a Mexican lager is. Um I think it's a great thing that uh like uh you said a client, a customer, a consumer will often just go to the bar or go to the store and have this idea that they just want like a Mexican beer. They just want like a Mexican lager. And because of that, for various reasons, we will see like Modelo outpacing Budweiser in the United States now. It's really interesting. It is also perceived as like an import product, um, higher quality, higher value. You know, these are all good things, but I love that you're kind of challenging the idea of what that is and what it can be. And uh you're right. I mean, I've seen I mean I've seen that you brew with corn, I've seen that you also brew with Morelos rice. Um did I read that the brewery, do you actually plant and harvest your own corn variety to use in your beer, to use uh on the menu and recipes for food offerings? Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Yeah, yeah. So I mean we do have uh, and by the way, based on your comment, you know, just now, I I I totally agree. In America, we love everything to compartmentalize everything and everything fits into its box, you know. Yeah, Mexican lager, Mexican lager. I mean, hence why we have BJCP and you know, in the food world, we have other organizations that you know are guidelines towards you know what um what you know is this uh more or less the stereotype, and and it's it you have to always take it with a grain of salt, I guess. But I I totally agree. And yeah, um, it's just in our culture somehow.

SPEAKER_04 47:04

Um it's the opposite of like like a Belgian approach to beer, for example. Yes, we like to have rules and boundaries and definition. Uh, I mean, again, talking to someone that's worked their way through Cicero and BJCP and all of it, and you know better than any of us as a brewer. Yes, that is how that is the American mentality and how we like to operate. And it can be useful and it can be helpful, it can also be limiting. Um, do you work with it?

SPEAKER_00 47:28

I used to I used to be like that a lot and and and or I used to think of things like that constantly. And and now I think I'm definitely have like a little bit more of a European mindset, you know, where it's like talking about Franconian beer, it's like, well, I don't know, it's just the lager we may. Like it doesn't fit into always doesn't always fit into like a uh uh into a category um super easily. So I I think uh yeah, it's just uh easier, easier that way to think about things when you're not thinking about competitions all the time or like uh figuring out where things fit. It does help the consumer though. So I realize that. So we try to be honest when yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

You are right that I guess not to go off on too much of a tangent, but whether we're talking about music or beer or art or however someone chooses to express themselves, whatever they choose to do it, whyver they're drawn to doing it that way, it is a little bit strange to ask someone, well, why do you do this? Why do you do it? How do you do it? Why do you ask someone to explain themselves when they're so obviously like compelled to do it out of love, out of passion, out of interest. So yeah, it's typically for someone else that we have it to give it, we have to give it these parameters and these boundaries to understand it for ourselves. So you're it's it's really fascinating. It's a different approach, it's a different way of thinking. And um, I love you know that this particular idea and expression of Mexican lager has gained traction in the States. You will see it on every craft brewery's board, almost across the board now. You know, and that's not a bad thing to take a corn-based lager and have it as a regular offering. Um, you know, but it can be it can also be limiting. Um

99 bottles on the wall

SPEAKER_04 49:15

when I look at just the sheer like variety of beers you have at any given moment. And I mean help me work through this. Is it is it ways so you you you are the head brewer, but you essentially you function as like a production manager like you were doing at um at Cigar City as well, correct?

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Yeah, yeah. But we have a we have a really great team, you know. We have uh several different managers. I have uh like an assistant headbrewer, Stefano, that he does a lot of the work production. Uh we have uh Emilio who who is a little bit kind of like more like a plant manager, lead brewer, um, kind of making sure that everything gets done, scheduling, procurement, a lot of that stuff. And we have like a seller manager, packaging manager, maintenance manager, and QA manager. So like yeah, um so yeah, I mean, uh we kind of have some structure similar to like a bigger US brewery, um, let's say. But um but yeah, I I think I think we're somehow heading in the right direction.

unknown 50:20

Hopefully.

SPEAKER_04 50:20

I love it. I mean, here's to you and your team, and it it shows that you are built and structured to produce more beer because I see a okay, I see a Czech pills that you can enjoy poured the three traditional ways at your lager board at your lager bar, for example, through a Lucrefaucet, the Malikos night in Ladinka. But I see a Czech Dark lager, uh a super lager, which I think I understand is a Keller beer, um, brewed with Morello thrice, a Vienna lager, a German Leichtbier, Schwarzbier, Munich Dunkel, Hellas, Hellas Export, and Heller Bach. And the beauty of all those is that they're under 5%. So they are meant to drink. And uh except for what, the Hellas Export and the Heller Bach might climb above. But this is one part of Hercules and not the whole, right? I see a variety of British, American, Belgian, uh, Scotch, and Irish ales, and we have to give a shout out to your Pueblito, Irish Export Style, at six and a half percent alcohol, because it won World Beer Cup gold in 2024, and I've seen the celebration video. So many, many congratulations. Um just tell us a little bit. Yeah, um, what is considered, and here is another distinctly you can argue it's an American way of thinking, or um, but um just in terms of like core versus seasonal, can you tell us which of these beers you brew year-round, which of these beers you brew on a more limited basis? And how do all of them kind of come to make up uh again, like campagnos of Sarah, Hercules, if I'm saying that even close to correct?

SPEAKER_00 51:56

It's close enough. Um, you're doing you're doing you're doing great. No, I hope so. There's there's like uh, I would say like um basically I created a monster. Like when I first moved here and and and you know started running production, you know, I I came on as a consultant actually, but you know, within a few months I was offered, you know, the the the um just run the brewery. So once I did that uh or took accepted that role, my my first job among many was like um I'm gonna I want to see what what what people in this region like to drink. You know, you guys built this giant beer garden recently. I wanna I want to try to understand what people like. So let's just make like a ton of different styles. And we had just commissioned, I I think we commissioned a pilot plant, you know, soon after that. So we were able to just crank out all these different styles. Some of them didn't work, some of them were in my mind great beers, but just didn't sell here. Some of them um were okay beers or style stylistically okay, but people loved them. And other beers, complete overlap with maybe your local brewery or bar in California, you know, like like they just worked um across the board. So like um I would say like uh we just started making like uh a hundred or over a hundred styles per year, and a lot of those had significant demand. So we've been trying to wean ourselves off that many brews just because it's very difficult to keep track of all that yeast, different yeast strains, let's say, and um raw materials coming from Europe from other parts of the world, it's definitely difficult. So, like um we have eight like core brands right now. Um so most most of them are loggers. Um, but we have an IPA, a pale ale, and uh um I'm missing one. Oh, a brown ale. Brown ale down here never died. In fact, it's like it was our number one seller until like a year or two ago, and now it's like number two or three. But people people love brown ale for some reason. I don't I don't get it, like, but it's just just uh just a thing. I I guess it might be due to the fact that Negromodo and Bohemia Dark, Bulimia Vienna, they call it now, uh, and uh maybe you could tie in Victoria there and uh Montejo and a few others, um you know, do have significant popularity still, so it could be could be that. Um so then we have like um seasonals, quite a few seasonals. Then we do one thing that rubbed off in my cigar city days were just an asinine amount of collabs. So we do just we just do like I don't know, because I I think we started doing them, you know, because I wanted to this place to gain awareness, you know. So I started inviting friends down, and I go back to the US quite often. So I'd be like, hey, while I'm there, you want to do something. And so that was maybe the the the reason why that we headed in that direction, but now we're just kind of like addicted to it because it's fun and and it it you always get to learn from other breweries, you know, what people are doing on all aspects of their of their business and yeah and inside their plant. So like I'm I'm always uh I'm always uh I love being proven wrong. I love having my ideas, and then you showing me a beer and saying, well, they do it this way, and I'm like, wow, my mind just got I love you know uh someone showing me some something new that they did, you know. It doesn't matter if it's in the plant or outside the plant. I love all that. Um so uh and then we also have a wild beer program, we have a clean barrel each program too. We do a lot of spawn beers uh and spawn blends. We're in wine country, so we do a lot of work with pumice, with uh crepe must, and also with uh finished wine. So we we work around uh a lot of that stuff. We we try to use some Mexican ingredients on the wild side, like uh Mexican cherries, uh called they're like uh capulinas. So we make like a Mexican creek with that, you know. So around like I would say, I'm probably missing uh some of the stuff that we do, but I would say around like just all of Europe and the US, just that beer-flavored beer category, we're just trying to hit everything. I think there's some beers we're focused on lagers more than anything, but we we do like to experiment. We do have a robust team, so we're able to kind of go out and have the bandwidth to to to to work on other styles that are not specifically lager, let's say. But our our our goal is just to have, you know, uh with the climate here and with um yeah, have have people be able to sit down with their families, have have a few pints and a few liters of beer and like uh really enjoy it and and prove that you know we can uh at least on a quality basis compete with the big guys and give you a consistent product and kind of dispel some of those ideas that people might have, you know, about what craft beer is to them, you know, like just a weird thing that you make in in small batches, you know. So like which there's great beer down here. I'm not saying that, but uh maybe in this part of Mexico, uh, and we're I I have to shout out to give a shout out to Quatropalo's brewing and and Puto Medio that we happen to be in a city that would not geographically be known for good beer, but we have three really good breweries here in Queretar. So anyone who wants to come visit one day, we have we're surrounded by pretty good beer.

SPEAKER_04 57:48

It's it's clearly uh a destination for beer and food in its own right. Um two things you two things you said. Um so first of all, I guess

A few small beers

SPEAKER_04 58:00

is it is it the climate as well as say say the competition from like Constellation, from Modelo, uh Corona dos X from those brands that kind of led Hercules to be a little more uh logger focused, logger-led, uh, to the point of opening a lager bar, a devoted lager bar in Mexico City. Is it kind of the climate and the competition, the expectation from customers that kind of led you to head in that direction?

SPEAKER_00 58:28

Yeah, so um that's a good question. I think uh I think you know, in the US, um not all the time, but many times I see more of like a conventional war against them, you know, going out after tap handles and and trying to fight the fight, you know, uh bar by bar, and and distributor, working with the distributor and working with uh smaller retailers, working with supermarkets, all that off-premise stuff too is important. Uh here, you know, it's it's a little you're just never gonna even get close to you just can't. So like I think uh here it's more like a guerrilla war, you know. We're not gonna fight them directly at ever, you know. And that's why we have tight houses and stuff like that. Cause it's just like, well, what are they gonna they can't offer us like anything there, and they can't, or sorry, offer like a client or something, you know, there's nothing that they can do to like really fight us on that level other than like legislation or or something like that. Lobbying, they can do that. So like, and that definitely happens. So like, but yeah, I I think we don't even think about it just because they're such a force, you know, and they're so big. You know, in the US, I think craft beer got to 10%, you know, which was crazy to get that that high, you know. I might be wrong there with that number, but I'm pretty sure it got around to around 10. Um, and then but I I think here we're still like a percent of a percent, it's just so small. And I don't I'm not really sure we can ever uh get higher than that just because it's like the challenges are real, so struggle is real. So I think uh we'll take what we can. Um uh and and yeah, I think I think having having this plan and these tied houses just helps us be able to do it. Having having the beer garden because it's not necessarily relying on consuming alcohol uh or consuming beer, let's say, like it's a often it's a family, uh most of our places are family, you know, places you can come with your grandparents and with your kids and whoever. Um, and if you're not drinking or you don't drink, you know, you know, there's options and and I think like uh that kind of helps a little bit. Um and the ambience, like you were talking about, you know, the stuff you see in the photos and online, you know, that definitely helps because yeah, you might decide to come here not even thinking about the beer. You just want to stay at the hotel or or go to the beer garden and enjoy. So I think I think uh we're a little bit um I I guess exempt from some of the issues that are happening in in North America, especially right now with beer consumption and I guess all over the world in some ways, you know, it's happening everywhere. So um I'm not gonna say it can never the storm can never get to us, but at least you know, we have uh some ideas and in in in place to to kind of uh avoid uh you know a big issue uh if if that does. But let's say the beer garden is just uh yeah, you have to come come here and experience it for yourself because it's just uh it's it will drop you for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:40

That that's an an absolute deal. And hearing that craft beer, um artisanal beer might be like 0.5% of the market share in Mexico does make me think there is still room to grow, which is exciting. And yeah, you know what? It's peak craft beer in the U.S. Um might have uh might have even exceeded 10% and 10% out of 100 likewise still means there is room to grow. And I'm thankful to the breweries that continue to push for it. Um there's one more point I just have to make

Hustle at Hércules

SPEAKER_04 1:02:10

because and you brought it up with your collabs, with your travel. I think Hercules has to be one of the hardest working breweries in the market, just with the extent of the collaborations you do, uh, the festivals you work. I obviously I'm almost done with my humble tea and considering getting another can. Um but I um and it came up at Fig Mountain for Lagerville last year. You know, um that was a Mexican style lager, uh I think it was brewed with ibiscus. Um I believe you've collaborated with uh Freem in Oregon. Um I don't know if you actually brewed a beer with Wild East in New York City, or maybe you invited them to kind of take the taps in Mexico with you, but there is definitely a partnership there on some level. I've seen you at Torst in New York City, um, which I have a love-hate relationship with that bar after working in beer in New York City, but well worth the trip. Um and what else? You mentioned the Firestone Walker Invitational is coming up, you will be there. The McKeller beer celebration coming up for 2026, you will be there. You recently had a Fruitingsfest uh on site at the Almondson, uh German Spring Festival, you know. So you're clearly creating, again, like a destination, a reason or an excuse, not that people needed to get out and commute and drink in the space that you've provided with the beer that you've brewed. So I do think that coupled with the sheer amount of 50 to 100 beers per year that you're producing is is amazing and just really an exemplary work ethic, my friend. And it and it shows because Hercules is coming up more and more and more, not just in this conversation about lager beer, but to anyone I ask as a fan, as a believer, as a supporter, uh, as an as an enthusiast for craft beer. So you are known. You are known, and we've gotten to know you a little bit better over the course of this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:06

No, I appreciate that. Thanks for the kind words. Seriously, I mean it's it is uh I think getting noticed uh in a different country, especially Mexico, that we do have our fair share of grape breweries down here, you know, it's it's been it's been arduous and I think uh um difficult, you know, over the last few years getting raw materials down here, um exporting what we can to the US in small amounts, you know, also none of it's easy, but I'd say um yeah, like I said, we have a we have a great team and and I'm I'm still stoked. I'm still I have to do like a health check every once in a while or mental check on my on my where I'm at in beer, you know. I can I'm still I'm still I have to poke myself, I'm still stoked on it. I'm still I can't believe it because I know so many people that I respect that kind of like uh over the years, you know, you just get burnt out. And it's happened to me before too. So I'm really stoked to be uh still be around and and you know, um let's say combining with my with my uh you know other brewers here in in this country and also in the states and other parts of the world too. So um yeah, it's just such a cool industry and um yeah, let's let's keep going. You know, things are tough right now, I think, especially in the states, but I mean, I know a lot of people pushing through and giving it their all. So that also inspires me to keep going.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:32

Yeah. Um well said. I do want to know, just talking about all these collaborations and all these festivals, kind of how do you decide who you want to collab with? Um, what festivals do you decide you want to work? And there's

MXPDX Fiesta

SPEAKER_04 1:05:45

one more coming up that we just have to mention before kind of moving on to some rapid fire questions and the way I like to end every episode. But the MX PDX uh Fiesta de la Cerveza, I feel like it started maybe in Portland, Oregon, in 2024. It is about to happen in Waras in Mexico this year, coming up in the end of April. And then it moves back to Portland, Oregon in 2027, which is which is really interesting. So tell us a little bit just about how do you decide who do you want to collab with, what festivals do you want to work for the MX PDX festival? How do people join if they want to take part?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:23

Okay, yeah, it's in Mexico City and the neighborhood of, or I think it's Parque Juarez, Park Juarez Park in Mexico City. So anyone could come, anyone could come out. I think Saturday is sold out. That's what I heard. But Sunday is still available. This will be our second collab with them. Natalie from Wayfinder is coming down, I think, too.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:55

Still trying to get Natalie on this show. It will happen eventually. Eventually, our calendars will align.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

She's a boss. She's cool. So she'll she'll be down here. I'm pretty sure she collab with somebody. I haven't been too privy to all the details, honestly. So I'm I'm probably missing missing something, but I would say uh there's there's like 10 uh collaborations that are gonna be served. And um, yeah, we're we're stoked on that because every year they like you said, they were doing it up in the States. So having it down here this year is pretty cool. Um I I think side note, you know, that's something that's just part of our DNA too, is like just knowing that you know, a lot of people can't travel or don't have the means to, or they can, but they don't travel. So like, you know, a lot of our uh the beers we make, the the culture we try to bring, which also is highly representative of Mexican culture, also in the in the culinary sense, and and in the beer. Um we we try to bring in a lot of these other serving methods from Europe, you know, um like the the side pool faucets or like Holtzbass German like wooden serving vessels, you know, let's say like for the Frühlingsfest. Yeah or cast beer. We have like a cast bar at the hotel.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:09

So um I saw that as well. Again, truly something for everyone. Um but for all of these, for all of these festivals and all these collab, I guess there's no shortage of breweries collaborating with breweries, and to the point of it might have been overkill in recent years. So I am just kind of curious what makes a brewery collaboration a festival? What how do you decide who you're gonna collaborate with, what festivals you're gonna work, what makes them like still compelling, still interesting for you? Is it is it the opportunity to kind of to be challenged or to learn something new, as you were saying earlier?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:43

Yeah, I think that's that's what it is. Um, I mean, it comes, it always comes from a good place, and that that's like super important for me because it's like I don't want to waste my time with people that have like ulterior motives or whatever. Like that that um I want to be around people that um yeah, that are cool, respect beer, you know, listen to cool music, and and you know that that but in the end, you know, like um we almost always, you know, if we if we're given an opportunity to collab with anyone, we we'll do it. And like um in a few weeks, I'm going to Texas uh for um my wife's uh nephew's graduation. And while I'm there, we're gonna run over to Austin and or I'm gonna run over to Austin and do a collab with meanwhile. So like nice, like there's a lot of stuff like that too that's been in the works. Like we've talked with so many people about collabing, and then like if if it just so happens, like like one of us will be somewhere near there, you know, we'll just do it. I think um I think it's just about synergy and like spontaneity also. I love when we like are on the brew day. I know the brewers, at least here, hate it because like, but I love like uh if like somebody we're having lunch and a beer or whatever, and somebody comes up with a hey, why don't we use Motueca at the because of this and this and this, like on the hot side, you know, like let's do it. Like let's I love it when it's like I know like breweries like Sierra Nevada, you know, they they might do one or two collabs a year, and it's really well thought out. Like I love being uh open and free and spontaneous with those things, and I think it makes for cool stories too. And um the same for the festivals, you know, the festivals, you know, we used to do uh a lot more, I think. Um now maybe we're a little more selective just because of time. Uh, you know, we're we're we're all really busy here in the planet, so it's not a lot of time to always always get away. But um yeah, like I think it's just like you see in many cases over and over again, and like you said, everyone's two or three degrees from uh of separation away from each other. Uh, you know, the as um my friend Tobias at uh Wein Stefan and in Germany always says that the beer and craft beer is like a small village, and we all just kind of know each other, and I always identify with that. So like I don't know if like it's just just uh about making the connections and you know, maybe you're a hop hop harvest, or maybe you're at a festival and you run into somebody else, or or you're doing a collab and somebody else tags along from another brewery, which has happened to, and then they say, like, hey, I I think this is cool, we should do something too. And next thing you know, you're I don't know, I think um it's fun to have that openness um and and uh ability to to to do it. And having a hotel here also helps to host people and show people a good time. You know, I think um we have some advantages here too, to to to collab and show people what we're about. And yeah, it's just about uh we're all in the same fight, you know, making, trying to make good beer and trying to learn from each other and trying to, you know, have some beers and listen to some heavy metal and what else?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:09

I mean, so okay, well, that is the perfect segue um to my next question. And like I said, we're gonna move to uh kind of a lightning round of something I like to ask everyone before we go. But but real quick, um, because this is just for you.

Home with Helles

SPEAKER_04 1:12:25

Um I just I want to know uh where do you consider home now since making the move to Mexico? Do you feel like you're there to stay? But you know, like it's been like Mexico, the country, the people have always been such a central figure in this conversation. You've talked about your family. I wonder if there's any internal conflict between your wife working for Constellation and you for the artisanal brand.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:49

But she's gone, she's gone now, but yeah, uh she's not working, so she she's willing to talk as much trash as uh as necessary, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:59

I love it. Um that's great. Well, it saved your marriage. Um, and to you and to your family. I just I do want to know because you are obviously um you're well traveled between all the collab beers, the festivals you do, and kind of the worldly outlook to life you've expressed. Do you feel like you know, Hercules and Mexico is this home to stay? Where do you feel is home now? As an American from Florida, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:22

Yeah, yeah. I I think um more than anything, it's hard to go back to the US just because of the the weather. Like we have uh I mean I'm from like yeah, coming from Florida, I think it's uh we're we're talking about just insane humidity and and um yeah, I think I think it's a hard place to live. I think you get used to it, but I don't know if I could do that again living in this climate, which is just like ideal. Like I I live in Mexico City right now, even though the plants in Kitatero. So I'm in between the two every week. Like uh, but the weather because of the elevation is just kind of like the same all year round, you know, it's just nice. So like um uh that that's one factor. I think you know, I love Mexico and I think uh the food, the people, everything down here are great. You know, I've been here down here long enough to to there's pros and cons like living anywhere, but I would say um I'm still stoked on it, you know. Um still, you know, enjoy enjoy very much, you know, being a part of the brewing industry also down here. So like um I I I don't know that there's like an escape plan or anything right now. It's year by year, day by day, whatever. But right now I'm still 10 years in and I'm I'm I'm I'm pretty excited just to just to still be down here and be a part of it. Yeah, this project's still fun too.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:49

So yeah, it's good times. I'm I'm really happy you found a sense of place in Mexico, and I'm really happy that you continue to collaborate with uh breweries in the U.S. So keep doing it and I will keep seeking it out. That I promise, cool friend. Um

Brewhaus music

SPEAKER_04 1:15:05

Okay, um, so as we move, wrapping this up, I do want to know about brew house music. What do you like to listen to while you're brewing? And this started with Chris at Fig Mountain, and it's a selfish question because it inspires me, and I've been listening to Meshuggah ever since. So tell me just like what you like to listen to while you're brewing. How does it inform? How does it inspire?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:29

Yeah, uh, I mean, we're all over the place. Like uh we do have a few metal heads on the team, so there is a lot of yeah, there's there's some thrash, there's some like um uh I don't know, like um old school new wave, uh British heavy metal type stuff. Um, there's some hair metal days too, like not gonna lie, which are which are which are fun, you know. Um you know, something uh it's typically not like too crazy. Like uh though we do um Blood In Conditions new album, we play a lot of that, you know. Um it's more on the like on the deaf side, obviously. Um some old school death metal occasionally, like uh I don't know, Possessed or Death or any of the 80s stuff, you know, coming from Florida, that's always a must.

unknown 1:16:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:18

And then a lot, a lot of like stoner, rock, metal, like I don't know, um Wand or um Ruby the Hatchet. I mean, there's a bunch of bands in there. And then we just like play Michael Jackson sometimes, and then we play like uh I don't know, like we play a lot of 80s, like uh 70s and 80s, you know, pop music, you know, everything from Steely Dan to um I don't know, do you name it, Kenny Loggins or whatever, just all over the place. And uh a little bit of hip-hop in there sometimes too. So I'm not always in charge of the radio. Most of the time I'm not actually.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:57

I will say fun and fitting and represents the sheer diversity of the 50 to 100 beers you brew a year. Um, and I love it that you know Ruby the Hatchet. That's excellent.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:07

Yeah, metal. Yeah, great band.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:09

Um

Cerca de Cerveza

SPEAKER_04 1:17:10

okay, uh, non-alcoholic beer, is that part of what you offer? I am curious here just because the rise, you know, the volume, the conversation, the dialogue around non-alcoholic beer has increased substantially in the United States since COVID and the pandemic. Um, there's been leaps and bounds in quality and diversity in that category now. I'm just curious uh if you offer it, but also is it part of like kind of um, you know, kind of uh like a Mexican beer ritual? Like, does non-alcoholic beer have a place in Mexican culture that you see? Just tell me a little bit about what you think about non-alcoholic beer here and now.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:45

Yeah, yeah, I'm honestly not sure like uh how it's viewed here. I I you know, some of the brands that do have like um what do you call it? Like um a zero-zero program. Like let's say um Corona has Corona Zero now, and you have like Estrella from Spain that that does does um does have like a zero beer. Like some of those beers you'll see as options, Heineken Zero also too. Um, I don't know enough data on how they're doing, but I do know there's some demand for it, I guess. Um we've over the years, you know, just focused and doubled down on session beers, you know, even some down to the two and a half percent range, you know, nice for those options, you know, and and I'm not gonna say we're never gonna do it. I just think, you know, still making beer, alcoholic beer, let's say. It's weird, you have to say alcoholic beer, but like it's just like an in it's like a part of what beer is, I think. But I I think um, you know, a lot of the I'm I'm I'm I'm generalizing and and yeah, I'm generalizing hardcore right now, but I would say like a lot of the breweries that you see doing NA type beers, not all of them, but a lot of them, are trying to fill tank space, and I get that totally. Like right now, we're fortunately in a still in a place where we're not desperate to to fill tanks, you know, and and and and every everything, every beer we can make, we can sell in a way. So like there isn't like that necessity. I think that's part of the part of the driving factor in the NA market, at least in the craft scene. And in and and with the big guys too, is that you know trying to find other avenues to sell products. And I I totally get it and understand there's nothing wrong with that, but um, it's just not something that we've seen like a huge necessity for. Like um, I think when you come to the beer garden, most people are drinking beers and it's it's fine. We have had a few clients or customers uh mention it'd be cool if you had something. I think for us, uh just hasn't been um on our radar as of as of yet. But who knows? Probably things can change and and they can change rapidly. So maybe it'll be different in a year.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:11

You know, it's interesting. I I mean I work um a lot of Mexican colleagues on the distributor side um who are among the hardest working of any. And that's what we even talk about. That's a that's a whole different game when you're competing for shelf space uh on a national scale. But a lot of them just love to kind of joke about how them and their Mexican friends don't even understand or know or relate to non-alcoholic beer, you know, and and I do really appreciate that you are saying a beer kind of 4% and under 4% give or take, like is a part of this conversation that it doesn't necessarily have to be all or nothing. And I I agree in working in the beer industry, I appreciate small beers with big character more and more and more.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:56

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I I mean I I think there's I've had some some really good ones. Uh I I'm not in your target market, Adam, unfortunately, because like if I'm not drinking beer, I just drink water or whatever. But I do I have done I have done the one-in-one thing. Like, I know like uh where I have done that and it is cool. Like and it if you're if you're driving, there's there's a huge uh I would say motivation to to have those products. And I see I have a lot of sober friends that you know are very thankful and grateful that you know there are products out there that they can still enjoy and and not be um yeah, you know, um in in the alcohol space, let's say, you know, still enjoying hops. So really cool. I I'm all for it, you know. And I'm it's actually, you know, side note it is something that I think about all the time, like to how would we do it and how could we um yeah, make because I think it is a very, very challenging uh uh thing to get into, you know, making a a really flavorful NA beer or zero zero beer or whatever, you know, I think that that's not the easiest thing on the planet. So making it stable. So props to the guys that are doing it well.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:16

I mean, I think if you put to your mind to it, you and Hercules could do it or anything, you know. But um again, what you are doing now, concentrating, like leading with loggers, you know, offering beers that people can have more than one of, you know, I think that scratches a similar itch. So more power to you. Um we're seeing more celebrity loggers and celebrity partnerships around non-alcoholic beer than ever. Yeah. Um for sure. Yeah, non-alcoholic and not something people typically like to cite that seems like a really authentic kind of partnership and collab is the Kelsey brothers with garage beer. Like you can see them drinking it, you see the marketing as a reflection of their personalities. Um for you, I would just love

Witte Wheat Lager

SPEAKER_04 1:23:00

to know like outside of collaborating with breweries, and not necessarily like a celebrity, but who would it be if Hercules decided they wanted to partner and collaborate with like a public figure? And you know, this can be speaking to the brand or just from you personally, who would you like to work with in that respect?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:18

Oh man, that's a super tough question. Um, there's there's so many. Um I said Michael Jackson, but obviously that might be a bit difficult.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:31

I mean, there's the new biopic coming out. Maybe it needs a movie, but uh, maybe it needs a beer, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:38

I don't know. Like um I I saw uh Stone Cold had a beer. I thought that was pretty cool, you know. I think uh That's from El Segundo, yeah. El Segundo was doing. I I I I said, man, I was kind of jealous when that came out. And being from Florida, you know, there's just so many wrestlers that like it's some like abysmal, crazy percentage, or um not abysmal, but uh it's just a crazy percentage of wrestlers that have come from Florida. So maybe maybe something there. Um man, I have to think. Man, I wish I was prepared for this because I know later I'm gonna I'm gonna think like, why didn't you say this?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:15

But I'll put it in the um yeah, I'll put it in the notes when we uh when we go live. But I think wrestling, I mean, and being from Florida, I love the connection and God honestly, yeah. I'm sure there's a number of different examples we could cite here, but most wrestlers outside of the ones that you know you everyone knows their name really just do it because they love it. And it can be a thankless, uh moneyless perfection. And that is something that brewers and craft brewers in particular are often up against. It sounds a little crazy, but when I watched like the wrestler's dock on Netflix, I was like, wow, there's a really interesting parallel here. And it's not just wrestling and it's not just beer, and it could be music or anything else, but there's something so compelling about people doing what they love without having to explain or justify it, and it's not necessarily for the money or the recognition.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:08

For sure. Yeah, I think we did uh some notable collabs that I I I was able to be a part of is the skate park of Tampa. We we did a a few years collab there because they have like the Tampa Pro and the Tampa Am every year. We did do a few collabs with them. We did a collab with Obituary when I was still in Florida. Actually, no, that was right after I left, but I I kind of had a hand in the recipe, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:34

Um, and then uh who else? Um trying to think. But yeah, we we actually talked with Exodus a little bit, but that never never came to fruition. We did uh municipal waste beer one time because we're good friends with those guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:48

Oh, shout out to Dave Whitty, uh the ultimate uh cheerleader for beer and metal. So yeah, maybe it's time to pick those conversations with Exodus or whoever else back up. I love it. Most metal.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:01

Yeah, I would I would redo my celebrity. I'll just choose Dave Whitty. We'll just put it there.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:06

Perfect. I don't think it'll be hard to get municipal waste down to Mexico City for a series of shows, and maybe we can see a collab here out of Hercules.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:12

We're trying to get them to complain here. We've been talking, talking with uh, I've been emailing their because you know, you know how big bigger bands are, and he's just like, Yeah, right, write my write the not the promoter, the the manager managing company or whatever. But I'm like, man, we we we we had um we've had a couple like hard rock slash metal concerts here, but that's one that's definitely one that uh um I'd love to to bring down is just have the those guys come down and hang out because uh yeah, they're they're craft beer guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:48

So Dave Whitty, if you're listening, come on to No Life to Lager for that matter. But I'd love to see a collab with Hercules and a show at the hotel remote venue. Um wrapping up here, last

Decoction oxygen

SPEAKER_04 1:27:00

couple questions. Decoction mashing, this is never fair, but I always love to ask people in a single word, yes or no, and in a single sentence, why or why not? Do you employ decoction mashing at Hercules?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:13

Uh yes, but very selectively. No, um, we we I think uh with Czech style lager, check style pay lager, um, and any Czech lager, I'd say, it is like in a way an ingredient. It has to be there, and the checks would tell you the same. Um with German Weiss beer, which is obviously not lager, it's there. We always do that too. Um but with other lagers, especially like the the softer, more delicate, like Hellas and stuff like that. I know we have plenty of friends like Ashley from Beerstat or Gathers that will completely disagree with that, but we just have found that the shelf life is uh much more. Uh yeah, we give the beer more life if we just don't eat the crap out of it. And that's kind of what decoction is doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:09

That's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:11

Yeah, you're building flavor. Uh and decoction definitely definitely has a flavor. But at the same time, you're um oxidizing some of those antioxidants that exist in the beer post-package, you know. So is you know uh hot side aeration is real. Hate to break it to everyone, but um yeah, that is I think that's why you see why you see so many like Bavarian breweries, you know, backing off on decoction, also energy cost too. But um uh if you drink one of our check loggers, you'll definitely taste the decoction.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:44

Yeah. Um man. For being 22 episodes in, I haven't heard yet that decoction potentially decreases shell life shelf life. So really interesting note heating up the ongoing debate to decoct or not. Um, but I also appreciate that you say it's increased flavor and just kind of like essentially another ingredient for something like check pills.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:07

Yeah, and check out, I encourage everyone to check out also, you know, uh Tobias. Uh I mentioned him earlier from Weitstefan, you know, he Weinstefan did some studies. I think they worked with Budvar on on this, or they I might be totally wrong, but they they were on a few podcasts and they they did some talks about it and about all the all the shelf life uh studies, uh triangle testing, everything on because they have two Hellas. I don't know if everyone knows that, but one Hellas is decocted um in the bottle, the original Hellas, and then they have a Hellas that uh is in the can that goes out to export in the US. And the reason why they don't decoct that one is because they were seeing uh reduce a reduction in shelf life. So like uh just just throwing that out there. Some there's some data behind it now.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:57

Very interesting. Um well, one more shout out to Humble C. Um, I know they are often known for like single decoction with their beers and uh natural carbonation, and everything I've had from them is good, um, including the Luis Raceway here and now, which I'm about to have another can as soon as we wrap up. So I don't think this beer was decocted, correct?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:19

No, I I think we opted not to uh on this one. Makes sense. But they they did they do decoct a lot, and man, there's also theories that that's why I was saying earlier about collabs and and and and being able to join minds with someone for a day in a way, like where you can kind of pick their brains about a lot of stuff because again, I love to be proven wrong, and I love when um someone that decocks brings a beer and like maybe it's not super fresh, but it tastes super fresh, and I say, wow, this is this is this is blowing my mind right now. I love uh I love that that that part of Brain where because we can all do the same thing or we can all do it in different ways and we can all come up with a different results. I think I think uh I think uh you could give everyone your process and everyone's gonna uh have a different slightly different beer. So the ones that can do it and and are proud of it, and I'm all for it. So yeah, team decoction for for for the guys that can do it and do it well, and and guys and girls, I say. But um here we just found other some other underlying, you know, not underlying, uh some some other results that I would say like, yeah, it's cool, it's a cool thing to have in the toolbox. It is for real. Yeah, maybe we don't use it all the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:40

Yeah. All right. Um, very well said. And

First and last round in Querétaro

SPEAKER_04 1:31:45

as we wrap up, last question. And this is for both um just speaking to Mexicans and to your audience south of the border, talking to Americans that might be considering a trip to visit Hercules. Just what do we say to someone who is 21, who's on that trip for the first time? What do we say to someone who's 101 and taking that trip for the last time? Um, what beer do they want to drink? First and last and foremost. Uh, what do you want to say to the beer drinkers out there? Um, what do you want to say about Hercules before we go?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:20

Yeah, so uh like you said, doesn't matter age, you come down. Uh I think the the beers I gravitate towards um uh are Caballo Banco, which was our first like World Beer Cup medal that we won here. Um that on a cask is like for me, it's one of our top experiences. Um Super Lager, which is like our uh I would say Japanese-inspired rice lager, but just hopped, heavily hopped. I would say uh that's that's a second place, and then uh Ripolita after that. Plenty of food down here. Um I would say try everything that you can eat a lot so you can drink a lot. Um I think uh it's a very unique experience. We're in we're in a place. I I think that people have an idea internationally, people have ideas about Mexico. Of course, Mexico City tourism has grown a lot in the last decade or decade and a half, but uh I think you know a lot of people just think of the beaches and there's so much more here. This whole region, we're in the the Bajio region, so um you just have access to all these small cool talents, like all with their own identities and their own cuisine, their own ways of of thinking, or uh sometimes their own dialects, the way that you might speak or say things. So um the message would be come down, come come come for the beer, come for Hercules, but you know, stay for stay for the rest. Mexico has a lot to offer. So um, you know, we're we're down. If anyone um writes me, you know, I I try we don't give uh we do give tours now, but um as a company, but if anyone ever writes us or or reaches out uh specifically, you know, because of a podcast like this, we'll try to give them a little extra attention and show them around personally. So yeah. Everybody, everybody come down. We'd love to have you guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:26

I love it, and I appreciate that you're inviting people to come and eat and drink and celebrate. And I think uh again, I mean, I've definitely learned a lot in the course of this conversation. And you're challenging this idea of, well, first and foremost, like what you just said, there's so much more to Mexico than like just Cancun, for example. And there's so much more um to Mexican lager, you know, or or what might have might might be perceived as like kind of macro, not even Mexican lager in a can. So yeah. Um here's to more. Um here's to eating and drinking and celebrating, and I hope we get to do it together at some point. So uh if you like what you yeah,

Goodnight and Good Lager

SPEAKER_04 1:35:10

here's my friend. Um if you like what you're hearing, I will say yes, like, subscribe, follow No Life Till Lager, help us hit the road, help us cross the border and make a better kind of beer show. And to you, Josh, uh to Campania, to Hercules, thank you so very much for joining this show in the here and now and giving me a moment. So until we get to where we are going, I will say goodnight and good lager. My glass is empty, so I'm going for a refill. Josh, Hercules, Humble Steve. Thank you all so very much. Cheers.