Episode 62 | Warren Jeffs’ 28th Child: “I Was Sent Away Forever” | Sienna Haze

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On The Jaden Jeffs Podcast, Jaden interviews his full sister Sienna Haze about growing up as Warren Jeffs’ children in the FLDS. Sienna recounts early life in Hildale/Short Creek, moving to the Yearning for Zion Ranch in Texas, strict community schooling, and her cleft-lip surgeries that exposed her to the outside world. She describes the 2008 Texas raid, separation at the Pavilion, DNA testing, and being repeatedly reassigned because she was “too much to handle.” The conversation follows the family’s post-raid years of hiding in Colorado, shifting “worthiness” rankings tied to living arrangements (Texas new house vs. original, South Dakota, hiding, Short Creek), and escalating punishments, isolation, and control. Sienna details manipulative “revelations,” name changes, forced separations from their mother, and ultimately being told to leave and “earn their own way,” leading to work and life in the outside world and later upheavals in Idaho and directives to move again.


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42:48 Colorado Hiding Adventures
43:44 Lost On Mountain
44:22 What Hiding Meant
47:43 Hiding Becomes Punishment
48:14 Dad Jail Phone Calls
51:19 New House Worthiness
58:56 Inside New House Rules
01:01:24 Off Limits Dad Wing
01:04:17 Short Creek Triplex Hell
01:05:42 2012 Whiplash Moves
01:07:11 Scribes Mental Torture
01:08:58 Summoned to New House
01:11:21 New House Privilege
01:13:08 Pressure and Favorites
01:14:25 Texas to South Dakota
01:16:13 Forbidden Family Contact
01:16:39 Towers Built and Destroyed
01:20:35 Duplex Non Member Life
01:21:41 Midnight Supply Run
01:24:36 Mother Shena Illness
01:27:30 Hiding House to House
01:29:31 Immorality Accusations
01:32:34 Colorado House Peace
01:35:23 Quaker House Gathering
01:37:59 April Sixth Dread
01:39:06 Sent to Short Creek
01:41:06 Uncle Nephi Message
01:42:15 Privileges and Garden
01:42:56 Service and Confinement
01:45:04 Uncle Lyle Arrives
01:48:25 Sent Away Forever
01:52:25 Learning the World
01:58:05 Denver Work and Rules
01:59:50 Seven Month Deadline
02:03:48 Cedar Meetings Begin
02:05:29 Split Up Again
02:09:27 Letters to Nations
02:15:18 Naomi Takes Control
02:22:44 Fargo Escape Order

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Like, what did I do? Like, why was I moving around all the time? It was just like I was too much to handle. And then by still are.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

I'm just joking.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

I'm proud of it. I'm very proud of it. She would read revelations to me and Jask almost every week about mother and how terrible mother was, and how mother had all like venereal disease and all this stuff was happening with mother and that we should forget that she ever existed. And so it was like we were going through this war of trying to survive there, and then mother's identity was being wiped from our existence, and it was just and then she cut us off from everybody. It was just like getting hit by a train. It was just like I couldn't even think. And I remember like for the first few hours, I was just going on autopilot because it was such a it was just a blow to the face because we've been these good people and you know you're finally telling yourself, okay, I might be good enough, and then suddenly then it's just like you're the most evil people on the planet. I feel like whenever you and me are together, then we laugh so much. It's just like this stupid giggle. Do you want me to look at the camera or look at you?

SPEAKER_03 1:18

Either way, whatever you're more comfortable with. But if you want to like really get into people's minds.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Be like, fuck you.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Welcome everybody. This is the Jaden Jeff's podcast. Today I am joined by my wonderful sister, Sienna Hayes. Uh Sienna, if you want to introduce yourself and tell everybody anything you want them to know about you.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Hey, I'm Sienna. I am Jaden's full sister, and I am my dad's twenty-eighth child. Um, I'm my mom's third child, so I'm the middle child.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Yeah. So if you're if your dad's 28th child and you're your mom's third child, then something's a little bit off.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yeah, I got the double middle thing.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

Yeah. You're really focused on being in the center of the fam. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Of attention. No.

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Well, I was saying the center of the fam, but attention works too.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

No.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Uh yeah, me and Sienna are full siblings, and we sometimes get along. Other times we fight. Uh today we're getting along pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Until we don't.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Yeah, until we don't.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Uh actually, I don't know the last time I fought with you.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Yeah, it's hard to do that. Better to go.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

You always win.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

It's better to join my team, isn't it? That's what I thought. Um so you were born in 2000.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

2000. I was born in 2000. And so I will never forget my age. Nice. I got lucky that way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

So no worries about dementia here. Um, let's kind of walk through the early days of childhood. Everybody knows we're Warren Jeff's kids. They're just wondering how crazy it was. And part of the answer is like, well, if you were there, it was normal.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

It was. It was very normal. We couldn't imagine anything different. And even when we did imagine imagine something different, then it was like, that's weird.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

The outside world was so different.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

It's like we don't even want that.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Even to this day, I feel like I'm living in a new world kind of. It's like, oh, I can all these d all these things that I do these days, it's like all still new to me.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yeah, and it's crazy because it's only we're only four months into t 2026, and I have had so many firsts this year. It's crazy. Like my first tattoo, my first um, I'm going to my first comedian show, and my first flight was like a few months ago. Like so many things I'm doing, it's I've never done before.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

So I feel like a newborn.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Just a first tattoo, huh?

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yep. On my wrist.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

Right there. Wow, what is it?

SPEAKER_01 4:15

It's a heart with an airplane because my best friend is long distance.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Gotcha. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

We're getting matching tattoos.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

I'm I'm pretty sure I'm your best.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

You're my best friend.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Yeah. Well, I've got to be your best brother.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Oh yeah. Well, kind of like my only brother, because I don't really know any of the other ones, and I don't talk to any of them.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Yeah. So. Okay. Well, uh I am your only full brother, but Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Well, even just the other ones, I just I don't really have a reason to talk to them and I don't live around them, so it's like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

You just gotta call them and be like, hey, I'm your fucking half-brother. Or sister. You know.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Oh yeah. Be like, hey. I don't know. I just I don't know. I just I would have to have a reason. I I still feel so weird. I almost have a better time talking to other guys than my own brother still for some reason. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

I talk to him and I'm just like, hey.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

You talk to the boys. Yeah. Hey, what's going on?

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Yeah, and we have a conversation for five minutes and then it just gets weird. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

So what the fuck should we talk about?

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Yeah, I'm like, okay, well, bye.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

Yeah. You're like, you spent the majority of your life praying and trying to not look at me. So see you later.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

And I mean spent the majority of my life not talking to you. So Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

So we're gonna keep that going.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

What you were born in So I was born in Hilldale, so everyone had moved down already. I was born in Hilldale, just at the clinic there in the community, and we already lived in father's house down there in the crick. So I don't really remember it a lot. I do remember when grandfather died because I just remember seeing him in his casket, but I don't have a lot of memories of Short Crick.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

So fuck that place. Yeah. Oh, I'm just kidding. When we moved back there, then I didn't recognize it at all. So like I didn't remember anything that happened there, so it was just like a totally new place to me.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Yeah. It's actually a really pretty place. If you go there without the vibe and the memories and all the things that yeah, dad like put in your head about it.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

You know, like it's like, oh, this is a nice place.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

It is, it's a very nice place. Even the yard and everything is pretty nice.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Yeah. Okay, so we moved to Texas, and that's where you probably remember everything.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

So I do remember when we were separated from our mothers in Short Creek when Dad took all the kids away. I remember seeing mom crying after we were in the van. Like, I don't remember so much the events that happened before that and packing our stuff and everything, but I do remember being in the van and seeing mom start crying. And that was when I was just like, I mean, you know, when you see your mom crying you're just like, what's wrong? You know? Yeah. So I remember that, but then also we were told like we're going with father, so it was kind of exciting and everything. I don't really remember R1 very good. I do remember snow cones though. But that was probably the first time I'd ever seen snow.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Yeah, it was the f some of the first snow I'd ever been in. Yeah. We were down there in Short Creek, they got like an inch a year or something.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Oh yeah. Yeah, I don't really remember R1 very good, but I do remember the trailers when we moved to Texas.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

The trailer houses.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

When we moved to Texas and the trailer houses and not having enough bathrooms, that's probably the main thing, because I remember waking up in the night and being in the line waiting for the bathroom.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Yeah, like if you were like me, you would wet your pants and I did.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

I remember someone hold running me outside because I couldn't hold it in, and it was just like, well, we're gonna have to use the bushes because I couldn't hold it in. I mean, I was three, so I had barely been potty trained and everything. So yeah, I remember that very well.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Throw that diaper back on.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

May as well, may as well.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Yeah. Yeah, so just so everybody knows, uh, when we talk about Texas, we're just talking about the FLDS year yearning for Zion Ranch. And when we first went there, there was no houses.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

And there was one house, but they knocked it down because there was one house, but they let like the grandmothers live in there, and the pregnant women lived in the house, and then they bought like was it three trailer houses and just parked them close by that house. And that was where I don't even know how many of us were in there. There was at least fifty.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Yeah, and we set up like a couple tents outside the house. I remember we had like dressers and everything inside these army tents.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Oh yeah, and that's where we would get dressed. We would get dressed behind the dressers because we didn't have closets and stuff. Um, I do remember the rainstorms though, when we had those tents, we did not realize the Texas storms and how bad they were. I remember one time the tent like blowing down and washing away because a huge rainstorm came through and just like flooded it.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

Yeah, I remember there being like a foot of water in that tent.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Oh yeah. I feel like when we moved there, everything was so different and new that it was quite exciting at first.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

Yeah, well, it is the polygamist way to like move out into the mud, leave any organization that you have to.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Live in hell for a few years.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

It's like one of the requirements if you're a polygamist.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

I know, it seems like it happens with everybody no matter where you're from. Yeah. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Now let's talk about some of your first experiences in Texas and like what you remember.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Texas is kind of the same. So I remember moving into the big house, into our new house. I remember moving in there and living on a bunk bed and stuff. But I just I don't have a lot of memories when I before I was like five years old. I do remember so when we moved to the new house. We had the three-tier bunk beds, so the three beds.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

You mean like dad's main original house?

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

We had the three-layer bunk beds and they put me on the top and I fell off one night and got a I don't think it was a concussion, but I got a really bad bunk on my head. I do remember that. But I I think they put me on the bottom after that.

unknown 10:57

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

You can thank me for building that bunk bed. Yeah. I didn't put a guardrail on the top. I'm just kidding. You built it when you were five years old. I helped. I was out there with Grandmother Gloria, like putting some stain on them.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

Life's going on when we're five, but who who was the main person you were like over you?

SPEAKER_01 11:25

So actually, I had four sisters that were my same age, and we were put in an age group, and Vicki was our caretaker.

unknown 11:33

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Vicki was our caretaker for five years, I think. From the time I was four to eight, so I guess that would be four years. And she pretty much raised us. You know, we all lived in the same room, and we would maybe see our moms once a day, sometimes not. But yeah, she pretty much is the one that at us all the time.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

And you would like write job reports and oh yeah, I remember that so well.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

But um we lived in that house and we just were living life. But then when dad went to jail in 2006, I was still pretty young, so I don't really remember him. Like I remember him a couple of times.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

How old were you?

SPEAKER_01 12:23

I was six when he went to jail, but I remember him once when I was five. And in the middle of the night, then one of the mothers came and woke me and my sister up and was like, We're gonna go see father in his room. And you know, we were half asleep and grumpy about it, but so they took us in there and we had to stand in the foyer and kneel down and and say our prayers before we could go into his room. And then when we went in his room, then he was laying on his bed. And I had never seen that before. It was just like, what is going on? And then so they walked us over to the edge of his bed and and dad was trying to get us to get up on the bed with him. And I don't I remember just crying, I was so grumpy. I did not want to. And eventually then they were like, Okay, you're like disturbing father, so you have to go out. So it's kind of like a punishment to go out, but I think we are just tired and it was in the middle of the night, so I remember that, but I don't know why I remember that, but just stands out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

And then he went to prison and He went to prison and I wasn't I remember only feeling sad because everybody around me was. Yeah. It was like I don't really understand what's going on, but I'll cry because everybody else is crying. I don't know. So I didn't really understand until later when I was older.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Yeah, so you're kind of like, oh, dad's gone to prison, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

But the thing is, is we hadn't seen him so much before that. Like he was hardly ever around. So like them saying that dad isn't coming, it was just kind of like, well, he never does, kind of, you know?

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

So it was like okay.

unknown 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

But then he always told us like he's coming home, so it really wasn't that big of a deal to me. I don't know. Maybe I was a transgressor back then. I didn't pray hard enough for his deliverance.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Yeah. Did you feel like you were one of the good girls?

SPEAKER_01 14:33

So Or were you like always We it was kind of this way, I think, in every group. It was like every group had a girl that was super naughty and got all the punishments, and then there was another girl that was super like tattletale and go tell the mother's everything, so they were the goody-goody. And then there was me where I was the go-between. So like the good girl would talk to me, and then the naughty girl would talk to me, and I would hear all the sides, and it kind of made it so I was really quiet and just like not do anything wrong, so I didn't get in trouble like the naughty girl, but then I would kind of side with her and side with everybody, so I was just like a chameleon everywhere I went. It was like if I'm around this girl and she has this opinion, then I'll agree with her.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

So yeah, that's just how the boys' grips were. There's one boy that gets in trouble over everything, gets in trouble, and another one that is like kind of the favourite, and then the rest are kind of somewhere in between.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

I was the favourite.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Were you?

SPEAKER_03 15:31

I was yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

I feel like I was kind of somewhere in between. I was a a very wild child, like I had crazy energy, and so I feel like that was what I would get in trouble for when I did. Like I would get distracted easily and you know, wanting to go climb the trees and all that crazy kid stuff. But I don't ever really remember getting in trouble for like days and days, you know.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

It wasn't until I was older, and it kind of depended on who you were on with, but when we were on with Vicky, then it was pretty just consistent, and it wasn't I don't remember a lot of punishments.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Yeah. So you don't you don't want to say anything bad about her?

unknown 16:13

I don't just joking.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Actually, at that time she was considered one of the fun mothers because she would let us like do fun things and go on walks a lot and be outside and she had fun stories to tell and stuff, so I feel like she was actually quite a fun mother at that time.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Yeah, there's certain mothers that were just like ever everybody's like, okay, yeah, this is somebody that's gonna be better. Yeah. Funner.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Oh yeah. There was definitely funner mothers and mothers that we were all just like straightening up around, you know. Um the punishments I do remember were from my own mom. Like I remember those better than any of the spankins that Vicky gave me. So I just they just stood out way more.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

Thank you, mom.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

But then dad went to jail and I was actually I was born with a cleft lip. And it didn't go through the entire palate, but it like affected my gums. So it affected like how my teeth grew in and everything. But when I was born, then it was like I didn't have a lip. So when I was two months old, then I had a surgery and they like did they did a plastic surgery where they just like pulled the lip together so that I would be able to eat because I wasn't able to like it was like difficult for me to even drink out of a bottle and stuff. And so I had that when I was two months old, and then when I was seven, then um they recommended that I go and get another surgery. It was mostly cosmetic, but just as I was growing, they wanted to continue like trying to even out my lip and make it look as normal as possible. So we lived in Texas, and you know how everybody says they never went off the land, they never knew anything of the world. Well, I had surgeries and stuff that I was going to, so I had been off the land, and I remember we drove up to Dallas, which was like a six-hour drive, and everything was just so big and amazing to me. I remember the first time I saw the traffic lights, like the green, yellow, and red. It was like, what are those? And I came home and I told the girls all about it, and they could not understand. And I was trying to draw on a paper, and I was like, when it goes green, then you go. When it's red, then you have to stop. It just things like that. It was like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

I know. I remember one of the first times I left Texas, and we get out onto the road, and a couple years had gone by, and it's at night, and there's like all the reflect this is a new rope, too. So like it feels really smooth, and there's all the reflector lights, and I'm like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah, and you can see it for miles.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

This feels a little bit like Zion.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

But I remember so I saw the Gentiles a lot, what we call Gentiles, and I I always felt so guilty for having to be around them and stuff, and like dad would send me messages and be like, You've been among the Gentiles, so you need to try harder and you need to be more fervent and stuff. So I always felt like I was a little bit different in that way. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Yeah, and it's kind of crazy how just a little bit of exposure can do a lot.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Oh, it can.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Like you would go you would go out off the land, you know, once in a while, but everyb I guess all the other children just never did.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

They never knew what it was like. But see, I had gone to these appointments and had I had one major surgery and then I would go to like follow-ups or like other doctors that would like do teeth work or whatever, and so I kind of knew what the world was like just a little bit. And so when the raid happened, I was so much more wild and talkative, and I would just go around with the Gentiles when all the other children were just like really scared and just like we better not talk to them. I feel like the reason I was so open with them was because I had been around them a lot.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

You're like, I'm I'll be a gentile.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Yeah, I don't know. It was just I wasn't scared of them at all.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Well, it's interesting how you and is is Millie younger or older.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Millie is like two and a half months younger than me.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

She has a c uh what is it?

SPEAKER_01 21:04

She had a little um birthmark on her nose.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

We kind of had the same like we both kind of had to go to doctors.

SPEAKER_03 21:14

But it wasn't a clef lip. No.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

So hers was mostly cosmetic. Okay. They weren't sure if it was like um cancerous and stuff, so that's why she was coming to appointments with me just to make sure that it wasn't gonna like get her sick or whatever. So we did go to appointments together for a while.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

But eventually they figured out that hers was okay and they wouldn't take care of it till she was way older, so then it was just me going to appointments after that.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Oh, I see. Okay, so when the raid happens, how were you feeling? How old were you anyway?

SPEAKER_01 21:51

I was seven, and mother had left like three days before. I remember saying bye to mother that time because she She was going to Arizona to visit father in prison. And it was sad because like it meant we didn't get to see her, but it wasn't that big of a deal. And we had actually gone to see Father in Arizona in 2007. Yeah, maybe you, me, Barb, and Mother had all gone to see him.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

That's when we got the dairy queen.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah, Dairy Queen. Yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

That's the trip I was thinking about being out on the road, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

You know, that's the first time I remember a rest area. Just like off the side of the freeway. We went into this rest area.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

I don't know why that sticks in my head, but um Well, it's because we they usually pulled bathroom trailers.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Yeah, we didn't get to go in places.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

They would pull off the road and you would jump out, go back to the bathroom trailer.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

There's this little porta potty.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Yeah. In the front of the trailer. Use it, jump back in the vehicle, and sell on your way.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

And you never get out of the vehicle other than that.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

No, and so when we went to the restory, it was just like wow. But it was one of those Texas ones where it was big, had really big walls and or like glass showcases and stuff. So Yeah, we went and saw Father, but we didn't really go anywhere out in the world at that time. We just drove to a house and then drove to the jail and drove back home.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

Yeah, we left at like two in the morning from Texas.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

Got down to Arizona at like 10 or 12 PM.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

Got up the next day.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Then we s I think we slept that night and slept that night. Drove back home. Drove back to Texas. Yep. So we started traveling young. Those distances were just normal for us.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

Well, if we did travel, it was usually like 17 or 20 hours.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Oh yeah. So it was just normal.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

Because if it wasn't that, then it was up to South Dakota, which was also about twenty hours.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Yeah. So everywhere we went, even when we would go to the houses in hiding in Colorado, it was like twelve hours. Sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

So especially if you have a bunch of kids and they're always trying to use that port of party in the back.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Yeah. So when the raid happened, Mother had gone to see father, but I had already been to see him, so I kind of knew what it was like. So she was gone, and then I remember when they came on the land and all the tension started growing. I didn't really understand what was going on. Like I remember the Gentiles coming on the land and we would bring all the shoes in and make sure everything was clean and so they couldn't tell who lived there or how many people and stuff. And I just thought it was kind of the same thing because it happened before and they had us bring all the shoes in and stuff. But then when they kept being there and stayed there and stuff, then it got really scary. Even though I didn't really understand what was going on. I remember the day we were taken off the land, then we were like trying to find our shoes and stuff after they had come in the house and were telling us that we needed to go and stuff. And I couldn't find my shoes, so I wore my mom's shoes, which were like three sizes too big. And so when we mother has little feet. I know, but I was eight. And so I wore my mom's shoes because that was the only ones I could find. And I remember they were like they were like a week old. She had gotten them like a week before, and getting new shoes was really hard. It was like if you got new shoes, you were so cool. And but they were all I could find and I felt so guilty because I was wearing her brand new shoes. But that's what I wore through the entire raid until more towards the end when they finally got me new ones. But yeah, I wore too big of shoes that whole time. Yeah, so you came were you at the Coliseum or We were we went to the Civic Center, all of us, then we went to the shelters in Port Concho, and then I went straight to the pavilion. I never went to the Coliseum. Because the Coliseum was where they had the mothers and young children, and then the pavilion was where they took all the older children. Yeah, that's that's what I'm and um the reason why is because me and Jasca were is it okay if I say her name?

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Me and Jasca were on just on with one of the mothers. It was actually one of Mother's sisters, and we were with her because our mom wasn't there with us. So we were with her. Miller's Fuck her. I didn't fuck you. I didn't know her though. That's the thing, is I didn't know her, so it was like with a stranger, you know? Yeah. Anyway, so we were with her, and so we went to the pavilion, and I mean I remember going behind the cots and sending all the kids behind the cots, and then they took the Mullers into the other room and they just never came back, and it was I was scared, but also it was just so new and everything was just changing so fast. So it I don't remember being sad until after that, until like a couple days later. But like I said, I was a very, very, very wild child, and I could not hold still and I was all over the place. And so normally at the pavilion they assigned a group of children to one CPS person. Or I shouldn't say CPS. They had like staff members there and they would they were like watching over the children. I don't know what to call them, but they were like assigned to different groups of the children.

SPEAKER_04 28:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Well, I had to be assigned individually to one person.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

So no one else they couldn't handle more than me or something, I don't know, but I was always by myself on with one person, and I I'm sure I was crazy. I was I was all over the place. But I remember um the person I was assigned to, her name was Nancy, and we were always doing fun stuff. Anyway, one day she Shout out Nancy I wish I knew who she was and asked her what she remembers about it, but um one day then she took me outside by myself. Like none of the other kids were out there, and I must have been being super wild or something because she got permission to take me outside by myself, so there wasn't any of the older girls out there. And I remember when we came back in, then the older girls came over and pulled me aside, and they were like, We're gonna tell your mother that you were alone with the Gentiles and you were just partaking of the world, and I felt so guilty. I was just like, Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

Dang, okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

But that's how it was the whole time. I was just constantly getting in trouble. I don't know. I remember the separation. Oh, the pavilion was where I first met my attorney, and they sat me in this little cubicle, but the walls of the cubicle were red. And we all know red is like forbidden. Like we do not have red things, we do not even say the word hardly. And I remember sitting in this red cubicle, and she came in, and I was like burying my face in my arms and whatever, and she was like, Is there anything you need? Like, what are you upset about? And I was like, the room is red. I was so worried about it. But she was like, So who's your mom? And so I told her, and she was like, Who's your dad? And I was like, I looked at her straight in the face and I was like, I do not want to hear you call him dad ever again. She was like, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. She's like, So who is he? I was like, he is father. He is not dad, he is father. She was like, I'll remember that. I do not know why I remember that so good. But yeah, that was kind of funny.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

And they did DNA tests on everybody there.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Oh, yeah, they did fingerprinting and swabs and but that's another thing I was gonna tell people.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

People talk about um what is it, the seed bearers. Yeah. And that's like I was gonna t bring that up because I'm like, yeah, that's a bunch of bullshit. They literally did DNA tests on everybody, and everybody who said their father was a certain person, it was that person. Yeah, it was like like there's not seed bearer shit happening. I don't know why people say that. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

So they knew who everybody's parents were at that time.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Yeah, I remember that. And they gave us all our tags with our picture and our number on it.

SPEAKER_03 31:27

Well, when you first get there, they put a thing on your life. And we're all ripping them off. We reject this.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

I think they tried putting them on like three times and we just kept cutting them off. Yep. And that's when they finally did the tags that we would wear.

SPEAKER_04 31:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Yeah, I remember that. The funny thing about the color red though, I should have said this before. When I was in first grade and we wrote down what our favorite color was and you know what we enjoy doing and all that stuff, my favorite color I wrote red on my paper. And I remember writing it and feeling so guilty about it because they were just like, you can't like red, you know. And I was like, but I do, I like it. Like when we would color, I would always choose red.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

Get rid of this hair.

unknown 32:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Yeah, and I wonder if that's why I like the color, was because of my red hair. But I don't know. I always liked that color and felt so guilty about it. So, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Well, everybody's wondering if we did school.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Oh boy, so we started preschool at two years old. And I remember that was just the tradition. Just start preschool at two, that's when we would start learning like our ABCs, our numbers, the colors, the shapes, all that stuff. And we would do preschool every day, that's when we started learning like the articles of faith. When I was three, I set all the articles of faith up to number ten. And there's thirteen of them. So I knew almost all the articles of faith by the time I was three. And we did preschool till we were six, and by then we knew the whole alphabet, all the numbers, we knew how to write 'em all and everything. So by the time we went into first grade, we were all writing and reading and all that stuff. Um we did homeschool. So uh in Texas we had a building where all the kids would go down to the school and we had all the different grades and stuff, and we did do school. You it's technically homeschool, but it was in a building with a lot of people. Yeah, it's like a community school. Yeah, it's similar. And we did that up until the raid time. So I was in second grade in the raid, so we were almost done with second grade when they came. And after that, I've never had a normal school year because we were moving around so much. We were in Colorado in hiding, and I just mostly did homeschool after that.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

Yeah, and I was in fourth grade. At the raid. And yeah, and I would say the same, like after like there was a year or two where it was normal. I still got my school done, but it was just you know, kind of a big mess from teacher to teacher, from place to place, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

And it was like especially in the older grades, it was like you just did as much as the people you were with could teach you. So if they couldn't teach eighth grade, then you just you couldn't do school very good, you know.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Yeah, it's insane how much we moved around. I know. Like that's why school was such a mess. We all did school.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Well, the reason we did school is because dad thought it was so important. Like that was one of his main things. He used to be a teacher, he used to run a school, and he did make sure we did school all the time, but it was so messy. Like, if I tried to get my GD right now, I wouldn't be able to because it was not consistent enough for me to learn anything.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Oh, I'd help you.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

I need to get it, but I never got mine.

unknown 35:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

I bet I bet I could though.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

I don't think you have to. It just depends on what you want to do and stuff. But I don't know. School was I always hated it. I hated sitting still.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

I I didn't like school very much either.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

My favorite part of school was spelling. I loved spelling.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

That was my worst. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

I hated math.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

And I hated reading. But spelling, I was just fine.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

I don't know. Remember phonics?

unknown 35:48

Fuck phonics.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

I hated phonics. It's like it was one of those subjects where they would just hand out your books and say, go do it. And it was just like, I don't know what to do. What even is phonics? I don't even know I wouldn't even know how to tell anybody what it is. But we always did it. We always did it. We always did phonics. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_03 36:11

Yeah. Okay. So now let's get into some of your older life. Like, we went through the raid, unless you want to talk about that more.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

No, through the raid was pretty much what everybody went through, you know. We we were separated into our oh, I will tell this one thing. Um, like I was saying, I was always assigned my own person. And after we were separated from the pavilion and we were like scattered across the state, then I went to the same place as like Barb and my two younger sisters. So we were all together in the same place, which was rare. Most of the kids were, you know, who knows where. And we were together in on the same property, but it had three houses. And we lived in one house at first, and I was with all my siblings, and then I honestly do not know what happened or why they did this, but I must have been naughty or something, and they moved me to a different house. And I lived in that house for like two weeks, and then they moved me to the next house, and I was just getting moved around constantly. And to this day, I even ask people, I'm like, what did I do? Like, why was I moving around all the time? It was just like I was too much to handle. And then by the still are.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

I'm just joking.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

I'm proud of it. I'm very proud of it. Um, but by the end, went right right before we went with our mothers, then I was back assigned to one individual person. Like I had a staff member with me at all times, and I have no idea why. I did not know why it was that way. But I was with her and I loved her to pieces. She would come and like play with me on the playgrounds and swing me all the time and bring me bubblegum, and it was just it was insane, but I was really sad when she when we went home because I didn't get to see her anymore. I know it's kind of the opposite of all the other kids. But one time while we were there, then I got sick. And I was sick to the point where I couldn't sit up or anything. And I was in I was like fevering really bad and stuff, but I don't know why they didn't take me to the hospital. But I was really sick and the girls were in there and the staff were in there, you know, trying to take care of me and stuff, and they were like, So who do you want to stay with you? Do you want your sister to stay here or do you want that staff member to stay here that was always with me? And I chose the staff member. And my sisters were so mad. They were like, I am going to tell mom that you are choosing the Gentiles. And I felt so guilty because I chose the staff person instead of them.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

Yeah. And just so everybody understands, basically what happened is we went, they took us from Texas. We it was kind of all the mothers and everything. Yeah. Then we went to the pavilion and coliseum, and that's where they separated the children from their parents.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yeah, they separated all the older children from any well, there was a couple adults, but most of the adults were gone after that.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Anybody that was over 18, basically. Yeah. And it was funny to us because we're like, oh, this mother's hair. But because she's under 17, they didn't know she was a mother.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

She was one of our mothers. That's so funny to look back at.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Yeah, we were like, they didn't know she was a mother.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

And we couldn't call them mother so-and-so. We would have to say just their name, and it was so weird. Because after the raid, we had to get back used to saying mother so-and-so.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

But it was funny because they were just there because they were under 18.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

But to us, they were a mother. They were an adult. Like, what the fuck are you doing here with all the kids?

SPEAKER_01 40:31

I will say one thing about the raid is that was when we were the least watched. So, like, my dad had 80 wives, and there was two mothers for every kid, like, pretty much my whole growing up life. And so it was like we were constantly, constantly watched. And so in the raid, it there was so much freedom because we did not have so many adults like telling us what to do and getting after us and stuff. So we definitely had a lot more fun at that time. And so when some of our mothers were there because they were underage, then it was just like, why do they have to be here?

SPEAKER_03 41:04

Exactly. Because they're a mother and they will report us and yeah, and they would try to tell us what to do, and we're like, I thought we got a break from this.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Oh, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

Okay, so I have to go to the bathroom. Okay, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

Okay, where were we at? The raid.

SPEAKER_03 41:25

After the raid, yeah. So this is kind of when your life starts to get serious.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Yeah, because I was oh actually, during the raid, while we were separated from our mothers, I turned eight. And that was like the first time I had ever gotten a birthday present or a birthday cake or anything, and it was great. It was awesome. I loved it. But after the raid, so I turned eight, and eight is like the age you're supposed to get ready to get baptized and do all the like grown-up stuff. And after we moved to Colorado and were in hiding, then I did we did go back to 17 for like or our 17 in Texas for a week, and I got baptized when I was eight.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

So I was a good girl.

SPEAKER_03 42:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Got baptized by Uncle Wendell or It was Uncle Isaac actually did it. Um, Uncle Wendell and Grandfather Merrill were there, but Uncle Isaac is actually the one that was in the water.

unknown 42:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

But it was Uncle Wendell and Grandfather Merrill that laid their hands on my head. Yeah. So that was the first time I ever saw a boy with white jeans. It was so funny to me. I was just like, why?

SPEAKER_04 42:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

And so then we were in hiding and home and hiding and home, and you know, we kind of traveled through hiding and home a lot at that time. It seems like we were moving back and forth.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

Yeah, I remember that time going to hiding. That was our first time.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 43:05

And I was excited. I was so excited.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

And we like drove to Colorado, and yeah, that was pretty fun to me too. We had lots of snow and new stuff every day.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

Yeah, I like Colorado. Yeah. I liked it then.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

I still think that the time we were in hiding at the brick house in 2010 like the last time we were in hiding was probably the funnest time. Because we had our garden, we did a lot of canning, we would do like the hay rides and all that stuff. Like we were super busy and we did a lot of fun things at that time.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

When we went to so we went to hiding after the raid, moved back home, and then when we were sent back into hiding, the whole family was when Barb and me got lost in the top of the mountain. We would do trips up the mountain and do like campfires and lunch and stuff, and we went on a hike, and Barb and me and a couple other people we got lost on the mountain for like six hours. That was pretty traumatic.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

Yeah, it was you, Mother Sheena who died.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Barb and then let's explain hiding a little better because I feel like later hiding is a punishment. But at this time it wasn't bad to be in hiding.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

In hiding, we were truly in hiding. Like, so after the raid, then the government was talking about doing another raid on the Texas compound. So father sent us all into hiding out of state so that they couldn't take us again. And um that's why we were in hiding for like the first two years of hiding. It wasn't because we were bad or you know, we needed to be punished for anything, it was almost like a re um a reward or a privilege or something. Cause like not really, because we always wanted to go back home to Texas, like that was our main goal or whatever, but it was like we were there for a reason, not because we were bad. So we didn't feel guilty for being in hiding at that time. But hiding was pretty much just those big houses, those big rich houses that you see up on the mountains that you always wonder what's going on in those. That was us.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

Yeah, it's like 40 acres.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

40 acres, sometimes eight bedrooms or however big the houses were, and they had a ton of them. They had a lot of those houses.

SPEAKER_03 45:40

By the end, they had like 20 of them.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Oh, at least. Different sizes and everything. There were a couple houses that they kept for a long time though.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

Yeah, so we we were at the log house when you guys got lost, and yeah, we would just like go out to where nobody was and take like an hour drive up into deep into the mountains and just have fun.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

It was like the only time we could really just get out and do stuff. So but yeah, we got lost for a few hours and I don't remember it being that scary. I don't know. It was just like we said our prayers every 15 minutes and I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

Yeah, you guys uh tied flowers. Oh yeah. You're going totally the wrong way.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

I know. But I get it because I like when we went up there more recently, then there you can tell there's just you have no idea where you are. So we were pretty lucky to be found that fast.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

It was they were preparing for like search and rescue to come and us to be out there overnight because it was in May, so it would still get pretty cold at night. May or June.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

Yeah. It was in May. Uh yeah, I was up there by Buena Vista, Colorado.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Yeah. I think that was when we stopped going up the mountain, actually. Father told us we couldn't go up the mountain anymore.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

After that, we stopped going up the mountain.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

And going up the mountain was kind of like the m most exciting thing we did. Like it was like we're gonna have a mountain day or whatever. And then we didn't get to after that. So it was sad. Yeah, I guess it was my fault.

SPEAKER_03 47:28

Yeah, I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

Bring um the wrath of God down upon everyone. Yeah. But then after we came home in 2010, I would say after 2010, hiding was a punishment.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

So after we all came home, moved back home, and we were all just living our lives, then when individuals started being sent away, that was when it was like, You're bad, so you can't be on this land or whatever. And it just became a major event in everybody's lives at that time. I don't know of a single person that didn't ever go to hiding for at least a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

Yeah, so 2011 was kind of this it's basically after Dad's trial.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

It was during Dad's trial.

SPEAKER_03 48:22

During and after.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

In end of 2010, Dad moved down to El Dorado, which I have no idea why they did that. Why did they move him so close to us? Was it because it was in the jurisdiction of the evidence and stuff?

SPEAKER_03 48:35

Probably.

SPEAKER_01 48:36

For some reason they moved him like twenty minutes away from the compound in Texas.

SPEAKER_03 48:41

Yeah, they flew him over. They flew him over the compound twice.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Did they? I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

When they they took a chopper from Arizona.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

Brought him down to Texas, flew him over twice, and then landed in El Dorado.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Yeah, and he was in that jail for months. And all through that time then his family would go see him twice a week.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

That's just because you before you go, you have to go to jail and then Oh, and then to go through a trial and then go to prison. Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

But his trial was in San Angelo.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

But I don't know why they had him in El Dorado, but it made it so we were so close to him. And that jail did not have restrictions on phone calls or how long he was on the phone or anything. And there was some crazy things happening. Remember when father would call for hours and say weird things and tell us he was speaking in tongues?

SPEAKER_03 49:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

And we would have to listen for hours on end every day to him just speaking all kinds of nonsense. And it was like the Holy Spirit is here.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Yeah. 2011 was crazy for me. In 2000, end of 2010, I had gotten my like the most major surgery for my mouth and my lip. And that was yeah, that was a lot because they did a bone graph. I took like bone marrow from my hip and stuff, so my leg was healing still, and my lip was really ugly at the time. But after that happened, I wasn't really among the Gentiles very much until 2012 when I started getting my ortho work done. So 2011 was probably when I started realizing like the consequences of everything. Like, yeah, things started getting serious. Like get silly and someone would report me, and I'd and that was like the first time I got sent away and had to go live in South Dakota for a couple months, and that was when everything was just started getting so stressful and so real.

SPEAKER_03 50:55

Yeah, that's when thing I would say that's when dad's family started getting probably the main end of the things he was doing. Like just constantly.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

I would say that is when the punishment started.

SPEAKER_03 51:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

And I know for some people it was before that, but like for the main family and all the children and everything, that was when we started feeling it like a lot.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

And you guys had moved into the new house, and I was the only one of Mother's kids that didn't get to move in at that f the first move. So I was just at the original house by myself.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Yeah, let's clarify. So Dad had this he has a big house.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

It's a big in 2004, a big house was built with like 30 bedrooms and a really nice house. And then in 2010, he had a house that was like three times that size built. Just like was it like 500 feet away or yeah, it was just right next to it. Right across the road next to it.

SPEAKER_03 51:57

Had a big, big concrete uh 12 foot wall wall that was like you know, one foot thick.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Yep. Um you couldn't see in there, you couldn't go in there unless you were like named directly being worthy to go inside those walls.

SPEAKER_03 52:14

And it was all like it was three stories high. Oh yeah. But everything in there was perfect.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

It was too though, like even the yard, it was completely finished. There was like retaining walls and everything. It was so nice.

SPEAKER_03 52:29

Everything had to be done before we moved in. Yep. The everything in there was perfect, and we could not take any old stuff in stuff in there, no old furniture.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

We had to do nothing, new wardrobes, new everything, new shoes, new hair uh products, new like brushes and combs. We had to have new everything. We made all the blankets and the beds and the doors and everything for that house. Yes, even down to the garbage cans. The garbage cans were wood in that house because we made them.

SPEAKER_03 52:58

Yes, everything in there was homemade, and you could not bring anything from the old house to the new house.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

Nope. That is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 53:07

And it was nice.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

Oh, it was a very nice house. It was huge.

SPEAKER_03 53:11

The living room was where we did classes and stuff was massive.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

It was huge, and even like the sound systems and everything was amazing. Yeah. The house was very, very nice.

SPEAKER_03 53:21

They spent $10 million just on the materials.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

That's not labor.

SPEAKER_03 53:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Yeah. That house was incredible. But funny enough, in 2011, I was like worthy to help like make the furniture and help sell the blankets and stuff, because you know how you had to be like called of God to like be able to go in the areas where they were sewing all the new stuff. Yeah. And all the girls in my group were like worthy of helping. So we every day after school, then we would go out to the wood shop and like glue dowels into the wood chairs or help like pin blankets or something. Yeah. So we were doing that all through 2011 until you guys moved in, and then I was the only one that didn't get to move in. Which was so sad. I felt the consequences so much.

SPEAKER_03 54:14

Dude, I was lucky.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Like I you and Jask and Barb all I didn't get to help build that place at all. Really?

SPEAKER_03 54:23

No.

SPEAKER_01 54:23

That's surprising.

SPEAKER_03 54:24

I was like shut out from helping build it.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

But then you moved in right away.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

Right, but I managed.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

You're finally good enough. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, we helped with all that stuff. And then you guys moved in, and then I was left on my own, which was pretty traumatic for me. But because then I didn't really have my age group there, and I was just kind of left on my own.

SPEAKER_03 54:51

Yeah, so now Warren Jess has half his family or part of it, probably a third in the old house.

SPEAKER_04 55:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:02

And then he has a third in the new house where you're kind of worthy, and these houses are right by each other.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

But the funny thing is, if you live in the new house, you cannot talk to the people that live in the old house across the street. Like if you pass each other on the road, you can't even say hi.

SPEAKER_03 55:18

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 55:19

So it's like you're a totally different level of worthy.

SPEAKER_03 55:23

Yeah, and you're hearing all these messages and stuff in the new house that you won't hear. And the original house is getting messages of being unworthy and stuff that the new house isn't getting at all.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Yeah, yeah. So in the original, we're like getting trainings about how to become worthy to move into the new house. And the people in the new house are getting all these special trainings, and it was it's crazy how that all works.

SPEAKER_03 55:52

And then another third of the family is in hiding or in dad's other H house in South Dakota.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

Yep, yep. And it was like hiding was like the worst of the worst, and South Dakota was like bad, but not as bad as hiding.

SPEAKER_03 56:08

Right. So it went for dad's family. It went the new house with the big white wall. You were top tier. You couldn't do better than that.

SPEAKER_01 56:17

You were like perfect if you lived in there.

SPEAKER_03 56:20

Okay. Then there's the original, which is 500 feet away, right? There's the original.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

On the same land.

SPEAKER_03 56:27

That means you you're still worthy to be in Texas.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:31

But something's wrong with you.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

You still gotta prepare.

SPEAKER_03 56:36

Yeah. And then from there, you go to South Dakota, Dad's H house in South Dakota. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

What was his obsession with H's?

SPEAKER_03 56:46

I don't know. Every one of his houses were H houses. Um so I think it's just because you could do such a big house.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

Because they would have all the wings. Yeah, exactly. Um so you go to South Dakota, if you were and then if you couldn't be there, then you went to Colorado.

SPEAKER_01 57:07

Yep. Then you went to Colorado to whatever house he sent you to, and in Colorado they had so many houses. At this time they were still accumul accumulating them.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

Yeah, because initially it was just like five main houses, and 30 people would be in one house. I know that was crazy. But then later it was like he would have one person in this massive house.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

Yeah, it was, and like two people and three people. So I'll tell but talk about that later because we're not there yet. But so yeah, it was when you were in hiding, it was like the worst of the worst, and if you were allowed to go from hiding to South Dakota, you were like way better than the people in here.

SPEAKER_03 57:49

You're like, that was a close one. Okay, there's one more level though. If you go from hiding to short crick.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

Oh, you are damned. You are completely at the lowest level ever.

SPEAKER_02 58:04

Yeah. Like, what is your problem?

SPEAKER_01 58:07

Yeah. And if you got sent there, the rest of the family was just like, you are so wicked.

SPEAKER_02 58:12

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

It's like you are the worst of the worst. You are almost worse than an apostate.

SPEAKER_04 58:19

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 58:22

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

Yep, I remember that. It was it was terrifying. So in 2011, I actually at the very end, like the last few days of 2011, I got to move to the new house. And I was finally worthy, and you got sent away the next day. You and mom. So mom went to live at the original, you went to live in South Dakota. It was crazy. I was finally worthy, and then you guys weren't worthy.

SPEAKER_03 58:56

I wish I could describe to people like the feeling in the new house. Like getting to move in there with and not take anything and leave everything behind.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

Okay, but imagine winning a million dollars. That's kind of how it felt.

SPEAKER_03 59:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:11

It's like you had made the grade.

SPEAKER_03 59:14

You but also it's like a whole like. Like it's a new physical experience, too.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

It's like you're a completely different person. You have completely new requirements. You have c new clothes, new hairstyles, new everything. Okay, but even we even had new requirements on how to do our laundry, on how to hang up our clothes. Like in the new house, we had to put the right side of the hanger in first before we put the left side in. Like when I moved to the new house, I had to learn so many things and it was so confusing.

SPEAKER_03 59:52

Yeah, and we had this certain way we would take our shoes off when we entered the house.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

And we would and they had like bathrooms down by the outside door so that we could change from our dark dresses into our light dresses because we were not allowed to wear anything darker than a light pastel in the house.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:08

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

Yeah. And we had to keep our light dresses right there.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:13

And another rule in the new house is you have to take your socks off.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

When you come inside, you take your socks off and put a new pair on to be inside the house.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:23

Yes. Or you could wear sandals.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:27

We ha we could wear sandals in the house, but we still had to have our new socks on. So we could not wear anything we were outside, we had to change right when we got into the house, and that's what those little entryways were for.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:39

That's crazy. I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:41

Yeah, I did too. Damn. Yep, swap out those socks.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

Yep. And we got so many pairs of socks at that time. I remember having like 20 pairs.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:50

This house was way better because, like, in the boys' hall, there's so much more room that only two of the boys needed to sleep in a room together. Yeah, yeah. Instead of five or six boys in a room, only two boys needed to sleep in a room.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

Well, I bet that was nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:06

You know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

Yeah. Well, by the time I came, then so many people have been sent away that we practically could all have our own rooms. Because there was there was over sixty rooms in that house. And people would come and go all the time and everything, but I was there for a while.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:23

Yeah. And in this new house, there's one wing that's off limits.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

Yep, it it has its own separate wall. All the doors to it are locked, like you can't get in there.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:35

Even out in the yard, the wall that goes on the outside of the building, it extends all the way right up to the house around that wink. Yeah. And that is like dad's wink.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

That is where all the scribes lived. That's where all the weird stuff happened. That's where the heavenly sessions happened and all that, which I didn't know about.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:55

The mothers were like doing lesbian stuff. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Which is crazy. I would have never dreamed of that. It was just some special area that you had to be worthy enough to go in there.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:05

Yep. And you see the mothers, oh, it's my turn. They go walking into the door, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:11

And now I'm just like, ugh. I remember that. Because I remember waking up in the middle of the night and there would be no adults anywhere to be found.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

But I just thought they were doing some special sacred thing for father.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:28

That house was designed perfect for how we lived. Oh yeah. Like the boys had a place to come up in the front. They had a set of living room. To come up in the front of the living room so we didn't have to walk past all the mothers.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Yeah, that's how it was. And also every wing had its own laundry room. Like in the original house, there was two laundry rooms, and we there was never enough washers. But in the new house, each wing, so there was four separate wings, they each had their own laundry room on each floor.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:00

Yeah, so and this house was three floors high.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

Yeah. It was super tall.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:05

And the old one was two.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:06

And there was decks on each level. Remember those big decks? That was so nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:11

It was.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:13

To like a luxury person, the house might have not seemed like too luxurious, but everything was brand new. Everything was. And it was designed well.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

One thing about FLDS houses is like the carpet was always light blue. The furniture was always just like natural wood. It couldn't be dark wood. It was always like the light oak wood.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:33

Yeah, no stain.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:35

So it was very, very homemade. Very one cer a certain style, you could always spot it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:41

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

Why did we have light blue carpet? It was so stupid.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:46

That's dad.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

Hey Dad, what's your obsession with light blue? Yeah. But I think in his part the carpet was white.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:56

Yeah, so once Texas kind of expires, well, it takes some time.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

Like we're moving back and forth, we're all over the place.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:08

Okay, in 2012, I guarantee everyone of Dad's family moved 14 times.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Oh, I believe it. So it was in 2012, early 2012, that I was sent to Short Crick to the triplexes.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:25

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

I was sent to the triplexes for two weeks, and I have never been. I don't know how to explain the foreboding feeling. It is like you are truly living in hell. You are the bottom of the bottom of the bottom. And it's like you don't know how to get back up. I don't know. It was like my first time ever being named a non-member. And it was awful. It was absolutely awful.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:58

Give me hiding. Give me South Dakota.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

I will go to hiding. I will go to South Dakota. I will even live in the original. Just do not let me be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:07

Oh, it was awful. But then we went home after two weeks, and after that, I kind of went to Texas. We went back to Texas at that time. But I went to Short Creek from the new house, and when I came back home, I didn't get to live in the new house. So I went back to the original.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:25

How long did you even live in the new house?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

Let's see, from December to March. So just a few months, but a lot happened between that time.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

That's a long time in those days.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:36

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:37

Like I lived there for a while too.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:40

Yeah, you were there for a while. Um I feel like 2011, 2012 are the whiplash years because like 2012 I went to the triplexes, came back home, and then just like a month later, then I got a message saying that I had to move up to South Dakota. So So we drove up to South Dakota and I slept for like four hours, and then they brought me the phone, and the scribes were telling me that I was supposed to move back down to Texas, and I was just all over the place. It was like so I was in South Dakota for six hours, we drove back down to Texas, and then a month later was when the entire family moved up to South Dakota, and we were in South Dakota for a few months, and then I got to go back home, and we moved back up to South Dakota and back home and back up to South Dakota, so it was just like we never were in one place. I think I moved around probably the most that year.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:35

Me too. I remember just like every day. Cause at that time it was dad, you wouldn't go to the visit, and dad said he would just call and be like, take this person this place.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:48

Or he would send letters to the scribes and they would type them up and just suddenly call and be like, You're going here, you're going there.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:54

And the next visit he would say do something different, which was like the next day. Yep. And so a bunch of people would be like returning back.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:01

And some people would get a mesh as they were supposed to go, and before they were even all the way packed up, they would get a message that they were supposed to come back.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

So then they would just unpack and stay there. Which is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:11

And the scribes would like, because they didn't know for sure what to do, they would read they knew. They would read you the message to leave, let you pack up, and tell you your ride was coming, and then after you were ready, they would come and be like, Okay, we have another message for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

They would torture us. Oh, it was so bad. They would do that, and it's the mental punishment. Like the mentality of you are not good enough, you have to move away, and then they come before you even leave and are like, okay, you're good enough now, and you have to spend those five hours just like in the depths of hell.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:51

It's just but the scribes, if they didn't they didn't know that if like sometimes they weren't sure, and if they didn't do what dad wanted, oh then he would correct them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

He would get really upset and do and then they would be sent away.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:05

Yeah, and you would definitely see a trailer pulling them away.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

Oh yeah, definitely. So I know that they were like trying to do their best and stuff, but it was crazy. Why didn't they just lie to him?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:17

Tell him they did it. They were so into it. I know more than any of us were. Oh, yeah. They were fervent as ever.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

Don't you remember seeing the scribes coming down the hall and we would all like start saying our prayers and start walking with our arms folded, and we'd just be perfectly Zion. Yeah. When those guys would come, and then they would go into a different room, and we're just all like it wasn't for us this time.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:40

Go back to the A-wing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:42

Yeah. Go back to the A-Wing. That is so funny. The boys' wing was B-wing, wasn't it? I think oh no, D wing. Probably.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:56

I think I lived in D Wing. Um I just remember that. Oh. When when I moved into the new house, Mother Aura came. She was one of the scribes.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:11

This is like this is how it works. She she's like, hey, she comes, she taps me on the shoulder. She's like, I need to talk to you for a second. She takes me into another room.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:22

The whole body just goes into panic.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:25

Something's about to happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:26

And your stomach, you just want to throw up because you get so nervous.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:31

Anyway, she's like, we have this special meeting. Every you're supposed to move into this new house, and we have this special meeting at this certain time. Your only job is to be there. Okay? And then you'll be told what to do from there. You know? And so, and she's also like, do not tell a soul. And so I go out and I start working. And all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:59

You can't even work.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:01

Yeah, well, I'm working, and uh then he the man says, Hey, I have to go. And I said, You know what? I do too. And he's like, really? And he's like, Where are you going? I'm like, I need to go back to the house. And he's like, Are you he's like, Are you really coming?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:18

He couldn't believe you were worthy enough.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:20

Yeah. I was like, no, I'm coming.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:25

So yeah, we go and we go we go to this meeting.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:28

I remember when that meeting was happening because um Jask was in there, and I went to the bathroom right by that by the living room, and she came in as I was coming out, and she was telling me that she was so hungry. So while she was in the bathroom, then I ran into the kitchen and got her a little tiny bowl of food because she was starving. She was like nine, nine at the time, and they you guys were in there for hours because you all had to get hands laid on your head, and you all had to get like confirmed to go in there.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

It was crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:02

And we had to get all these revelations about how to take the socks on and off and what we were supposed to do, and so the rest of that day, like we had a meeting with the bishop that day, yeah, and it was like fuck the bishop. You know, it was like this is way more important. Whatever that bishop has going on, like fuck off.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:24

Yep, I know, and I remember when um father would say all the families had to help deep clean the storehouse and we had to like help with the public areas on the land. Well, the new house people were off limits. Oh it was like if the of my family that lives in the new house, you cannot ask them to do anything. No, like they are their own separate group.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:42

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:43

And they have their own training and their own like way of life.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:46

If you lived at the new house, everybody could fuck off.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:51

It was, it was an even like going to the storehouse to get our food, they had our food separate from the rest of the family. And it was like get the new house everything they need before you feed anybody else. That's how it was. I remember that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:06

I do too.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:07

It was like, nope, that's for the new house. You can't take it.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:09

I know. I'd walk out the gate to the new house to go to men's prayer or something, and like people would like be like, this dude, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:20

He is a god.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:22

It was literally like that, though. If a man, like the men that used to totally like disrespect me, would stop and ask me if I needed anything, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:32

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:33

If people saw you coming in and out of there, they just worshipped you.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

They did, they did too. I know I remember even with our family when we were doing digging the cactus and stuff and we had the cactus deadline to get all the cactus off the land, then we would go out and dig cactus, and I lived at the new house at the time, and it was just like we were the most saintliest people of anyone, and if we were digging cactus a certain way, then everybody would watch us and do it the very same way we were. It was insane.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:03

Oh my god. It was terrible. I forgot just how crazy the new house was.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:08

But I it was a lot of pressure too, because when you moved in the new house, like you knew that you were like above everybody else, but also it was like to stay there. It was hard. It was hard to stay there for us. Yeah. Because it was like you didn't know if the next second you were gonna get a phone call and say you have to move out, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:27

Some people just had it good and they just some people stayed there the entire time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:32

I do not know how they did it or what they did.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:34

Favorites.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:35

Yeah. I don't know. Some people were there way longer than others. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:41

If I was in Texas, I was usually there after it got done.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:44

Yeah. I was I was kind of half and half because at the end of 2012, when only a few people went back home, like right before the land was taken, then I went to the new house and lived in the new house. Like I was like the last group that lived in the new house.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:01

Well, at the end, I think I lived in the triplexes on R17.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:09

I think all the boys lived up.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:10

All the boys did.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:11

All the boys lived up there, and we weren't allowed to even look at you guys. Yeah. Wow, I forgot about that. Yep, and there wasn't very many people on the land, so there was a lot to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:23

Yeah. Okay. Texas slowly gets like we moved Dad has a bunch of the family moved to South Dakota.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:33

South Dakota, after they took the land in Texas, South Dakota kind of became home or like the best place we could be.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:40

Yeah, it became kind of the new house. But it wasn't anything like the new house.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:46

Oh no. But it was like that was our goal to go to South Dakota.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:50

Yeah, so they served these papers. Dad has his whole family taken away from Texas, and everybody moves up to South Dakota, and that's when they got way more houses of hiding.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:02

Oh yeah. Because now there wasn't as many places to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:06

Right. So the best family now was in all the people that were in South Dakota for years, the mothers that were just kind of like, meh, you know. Yeah. Or I guess that's how the family looked at them or dad looked at them.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:24

They were sent away so fast at that time off to hiding or to short cricket or shut them. Yeah. And the best family was left in the South Dakota house. Yep. And then a few of the other houses in South Dakota.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:40

Well, see, all the families that had like settled that land and had built it up for years and years, decades actually, they were sent away. All those families, every single one of them, were sent away so all their houses were empty. And then dad would it kind of became like the new house in the original. Like if you weren't good enough to live in the main house in South Dakota, you had to go live in one of the other houses on the same land.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:06

Yeah. So like Mother, did you live with mother in the duplex? Yep. It was me and mother for months. And we I lived in the A house.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:16

Which was just like down the road.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:18

Right. And I was not supposed to talk to her at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:22

It was like she is evil. If you talk to her, you will be evil.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:25

Yeah, one time I was coming, you know, the tower on R23. Uh when we say that, we're talking about South Dakota.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:33

In South Dakota, they had like a watchtower. It was a really tall, it looked like a lighthouse tower type of thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:39

Oh, dude, did you know about the tower in Texas?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:44

The one by the gate?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:46

So we built a tower in Texas.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:49

Oh, the one that had to get torn down? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:51

Yes, I remember. We built this tower. It had a massive foundation. The walls at the bottom were eight feet thick.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:01

Concrete. And that thing was concrete to the top.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:04

And the top of the top, the concrete walls, were two feet thick.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:08

Oh, that they started building that tower at the same time they were building the arena out on the edge of the land.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:15

Right. But that was put on hold, and everybody came to do the tower. And they put this thing up, and I was being too white-minded. And so I didn't get to help finish this tower, but I saw like I helped put almost most of the concrete up.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:32

But they get this thing done. It's painted white. It's like this really kind of fancy building.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:36

Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:37

But it's stronger than sin. You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:41

It was huge. It was massive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:45

Anyway, dad gets a picture of it. And he's like, rip that sucker down.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:51

Yeah, he's like, tear that down.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:53

I remember that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:55

So one day they go and just like knock that.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:57

They take the hammer out there and just do base the the at the base of that thing and it just.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:05

Yeah. Well, I drive up to the gate. I I get to come back to Texas, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:11

And I drive up to the gate and I look out and I'm looking for this tower because you can see it from the gate. Oh yeah. And I'm like, what? Where is that thing? And I'm like, no. Surely I I know I could see that from here.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:25

And we drive up there.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:27

And it's just gone.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:28

And it's just flat.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:29

I know they they took every evidence of that thing away. Yeah. The entire thing. Which was crazy. That was like millions of dollars to build that thing, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:39

Yeah, anyway, I was uh walking from the tower. The tower in South Dakota was like this cheap tin metal tank.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:46

Yeah. It just it was a lot cheaper, but it blended in with the trees a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:51

Uh but I was walking from the tower over to the A house.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:55

And we called it the A House, right? In in South Dakota, we called Dad's house the A House.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:01

Um and I also didn't hear mom's voice out of these trees. And I'm like, what? Anyway, mother had walked up from the duplex, stood in these trees.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:16

Waiting for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:17

Waiting for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:19

But she wasn't supposed to talk to you. And I was at the duplex waiting for her to come back. But you didn't know that she'd been watching you for days before that.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:32

Anyway, I talk to her for a sec, we say hi, and then I go back down to the A house.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:37

So that's kind of the vibe.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:40

But it was like such a secret. It was like so bad and naughty to even talk to your own mother.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:46

And this is when things started just getting, I would say, like it was almost impossible. Okay, but in 2012, 11 and 12, we were moving everywhere. It was the A house, it was, you know, the new house with the white wall and everything and all that stuff. But after that, like now that Texas is gone, it's more like hell. Like before that, there's enough action that it wasn't as big of a deal.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:16

There wasn't as much pressure.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:19

Yeah. In a way. Yeah. And so now you're left in a house without hearing anything for months. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:28

And you just you feel abandoned, you really do.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:31

Especially after all that action for years. I don't know. I feel like being sent to the duplex. So we were actual non-members when we got sent to the duplex. So it was a little different than being uh in Texas. Because in Texas, if you lived at the original, you were still a member. You just weren't worthy to live in the new house. But in South Dakota, if you weren't worthy of living in the big house or the A house, you were a non-member and you were awful.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:59

But you were better than the people that were in hiding.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:01

But you could not even go to the storehouse or anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:05

You couldn't We couldn't even go outside.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:08

We could not be seen.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:09

You got your food brought to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:11

Our sewing. We had to do everything inside. We could not go to the garden. We could not do anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:17

Yeah, so if you lived in the A house, it was just a normal like you go to the garden, you go to the storehouse, you live your normal life. If you live in the duplex or the south house or the B house.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:28

You do not step a toe outside.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:31

You don't go to the storehouse, somebody brings you everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:33

Yep. And you sew all day. You build up the storehouse to prove that you are worthy of being a member again.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:40

Yeah. Dude, I gotta tell you this story.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:44

So you know how there's the duplex.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:46

Well, we're living in the A house at South Dakota.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:51

And there's this mother who lives at the duplex, and I guess they really need some toilet paper or something over there.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:00

Well, we didn't even have phones or anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:02

You literally You wait for someone to come and see if you need something. And if they forget, then oops.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:08

Well, there's this mother at the A house that's supposed to take care of them. Well, this person, this mother from the duplex, she's sneaking at night over to the A house to try to get what she needs.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:26

Anyway, uh we're sitting there in our room one night and the lights on, and this hood, okay, this hood, camouflage hood.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:38

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:39

It's like 9.30 or 10 at night.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:42

It goes past our window really fast. And we're like, no way. You know, we I grab my flashlight and I tell one of the boys, you go out this way, I'll go out this way.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:55

We're gonna catch us. Because you didn't know who it was. We're gonna catch us in drinkers.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:04

Yes. Anyway, I go, we open the door, and my heart is pumping so hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:13

You thought a gentile was on the land.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:17

I run over there. I run over to this person. And they are when I first see them, they are throwing rock little rocks at the window.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:28

Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:29

That this mother lives at. They are thro trying to get her attention. And I run up to this person, and they run over to the to the house wall. They put the hood against the house.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:44

To cover their face.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:45

Yeah. And I shine right on them. I'm like, who are you? And they are like up against the house, just hoping I don't see who they are. Oh my goodness. And I'm like, oh, that is one of the mothers. Oh, I can't. I'm like, okay. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:09

Oh, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:11

Then this mother that can't that's supposed to take care of him, she comes down like a half hour later. She tells us how, you know, this mother was all scared and she was trying to not let us see her. She tells us sorry and everything, and anyway, it was funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:28

Isn't it crazy though? Like that doesn't happen to normal people. It was crazy. Yeah, we lived at the duplex for a while and then I was sent into hiding. And I did get to come back to we call it 23 in South Dakota. I came back to 23 for a couple months, and that was when I was on with Mother Sheena. And she was really sick at she was getting sick at the time. So she couldn't like lay flat or she couldn't work very hard, so we were just kind of I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:02

Did she even know she had cancer at that time?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:04

No. I think she wondered, but at the time one of her vertebrates had already crushed because she could hardly walk and she was in so much pain. It was a few months later that she found out. But at this time, then she hadn't gone to any doctors or anything. So I was actually either the last child she was on or one of the last ch children that she was ever a caretaker of.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:28

And she was pretty chill.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:30

Oh, I loved her to pieces. She would do so many fun things and like she made really fun food and we would go outside and do really fun activities and stuff. She was always a funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:40

She was always a fun person. Yeah. She was at the brick house.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:43

Oh yeah, she would do like the water, the water um activities and stuff, and yeah, she was a really fun person to be with.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:53

Her story's kind of sad because she could be alive.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:56

Oh yeah. She could have gotten that taking care of Claire back in 2010. So it's really sad. But yeah, I remember in in 203 uh 13, the last time I was at 23, then she did have an open sore. So I knew about that. It was just small though. So I remember them telling me that she had an open sore at that time. Which her cancer was already stage four if you have an open sore, so yeah, that was really sad.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:28

Yeah, and she didn't even know. I remember she moved over to the bee house just to be taken care of. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:35

Well, she was told that she wasn't worthy and that she was sick because she had sinned episode. Which is so messed up.

unknown 1:26:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:44

Yeah. I think if people totally I think I'm gonna make a video about her.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:49

You should, because her the anniversary of her death just passed. It was in the first of April or something. But yeah. She was fun and I don't know. I think toward the end she was a little bit I wish she wasn't as faithful as she was, because she didn't let herself.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:10

I think the sickness made her more faithful.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:12

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:13

She was very, very devout and like now she knows she's going to die. And so I mean at some point she had like she knew she was gonna die.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:24

And she was just They were pretty much just doing pain management at the end, like anyway, but on to the subject. Um I moved into hiding end of 2013, and I was in hiding until we were sitting in the house. Were you with mom? So some of the time. So when I went into hiding, then I went and lived with mom for a month, and then I went and moved to a different house for a month, and then she came and lived with me for a little while, and we were just moving from house to house, and and I would see mom for a month and then And she would leave for a few months and you know, she was with me sometimes, with Barb sometimes, and and then eventually in 2014, then um I moved with mom mom and Barb. So then we all lived in the same house for a few years actually, before you came to live with us. So it was me and mom and Barb in the same house for years, all by ourselves, and sometimes it was a tiny little trailer house, sometimes it was a big six-bedroom house, which is insane. But I feel like at that time I was in my teenage years, and I I got to learn all the teenage stuff away from the family. Like I didn't have the pressure of the family watching me and getting me in trouble while I was learning all that stuff, like learning how to cook and how to do my hair and all the stuff that we would learn growing up and stuff. So I was we were very like secluded and all that stuff happened when I was all we were when we were all by ourselves. And I've never really lived in a big group of people since then. Like just kind of always been on my own since then.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:14

Well, to me to me, and I'm not saying it needed to be this way for you, but those days were the most dreary days.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:25

Like I would have taken the chaos of 2011 and 2012 over those days.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:30

Oh yeah. Those days were just So those days in 2013, 2014, 2015 was when the messages about immorality got so intense. Like everybody was being accused of doing all manner of things and and these things still kinda made sense. But at this time it was just like you were immoral, you're immoral, and you gotta be sent here and you had immoral thoughts about so and so, and I don't know, it was so hard to escape it. It was just like how how can I not be immoral, you know? And that's when the confusion c kind of started. It was like, what am I doing? Like how am I being immoral? Because I didn't even know what being immoral meant. I didn't even know what I was running away from, you know? So I feel like that was when the pressure started a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:23

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:24

And by the time you came to live with us in 2016 in the in that house in Colorado, it was just we were so scared of even thinking for ourselves because it might be immoral and stuff. And it was so weird to have you in the house. It was so weird to have a boy in the house. And I remember when you came and mom was like, go say hi to him, and and we were just like hi and ran away. You probably felt like you were Oh no, I was the same way.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:54

I was like, Yeah, don't fucking touch me.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:56

Yeah, it's like don't look at me, don't talk to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:59

I I ain't looking at you.

unknown 1:31:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:01

I feel like I didn't say anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:04

We were so scared of everybody at that time because we were accused of it so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:09

Yeah. There was no way I was gonna look at any of you guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:13

No, no one we wouldn't even talk to our brothers. Like, yeah, it was like insanity.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:19

Yeah. I remember moving in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:22

Was that kind of a punishment for you?

SPEAKER_03 1:31:24

I was relieved. Oh, was it?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:26

Because you had been living with the boys and we weren't sure if it was like hard for you to like not live with the boys anymore and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:33

Well, I had just been there for so long. Yeah. And I was just ready. I didn't care. I was just ready for something different.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:41

Yeah. Yeah, I remember you moved in and you were supposed to do like good words, and you were kind of like the man of the house. You didn't hold the priest at that time.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:50

No, I was a non-member.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:51

Yeah, we were all non-members at that time. But yeah, that's where I learned how to grow plants, how to can, how to cook, how to but you'd been doing that stuff your whole life. Yeah, but the thing is is we had our whole family doing it. So like we had mothers that knew how and everything, but when we moved into hiding and were br by ourselves, like there wasn't anybody there that knew how to make bread really good or sew clothes really good and all the stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:17

So you weren't just helping anymore, you were So I was like in charge of everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:20

So I learned how to make an entire meal by myself and how to make all the canning that we used to make, you know, we would all get in a group and can, so we never knew how to do it from start to finish.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:31

And like sewing a dress from start to finish and all that stuff. I learned how to sew everything there and how to grow a garden from start to finish and all that stuff. So I I feel like that house, like if I could go back to that year without any of the religion stuff involved, it would probably have been the most happy time of my life. Just because I was free, nobody was there to judge me, like none of the other girls were there, the mothers, you know, nobody was really reporting me for anything and stuff, so because it was just mom and Barb and me.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:00

So I got there in like May, uh March. April. April. It was March. March. And it was just a beautiful spring.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:11

It was amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:12

It's right up there behind on the back side of Pike's Peak. Yep. A little ways up a ways up from Woodland Park, I guess. And the view from that deck is just beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:23

And it was so quiet and just kind of out of the way. And like there was no drama there. Like because it was just mom and her kids, and we were just there.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:33

It was like the probably the only house in hiding where there was no drama. It was just like whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:39

It was so pretty there.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:40

It was, it was amazing. And we had the deer. We had this huge herd of deer that would come up and eat out of our hands, and it was just like if I could go back to that year, I would actually raise my kids there. Yeah. Because it was such a nice place and just chill.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:56

Dude, I walked like while we were there, I went walking off into the trees like quite a ways. Yeah, it did. But I went clear off into the neighbor's property and stuff, and I came across this greenhouse with like marijuana.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:15

I was like, I'm getting out of here.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:17

You're gonna be accused of doing drugs. Did you tell father?

SPEAKER_03 1:34:22

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:23

Oh, you better thought of I mean I just saw it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we we had a lot of fun there, and I I feel like if I could go back there, I would. I mean, I know a lot more now, but have you? I drove back. I've been so curious. I wonder if it's still like I don't know. I think the owner lived in Germany, and that was why we never dealt with anybody.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:50

What's crazy is that house cost $1,700 a month.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:54

For 50 acres.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:55

And it was like this nice house.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:57

It was a six-bedroom house. It was it was it like the floors had the heating in the floors, and all the floors were like real red wood floors, and yeah, it was the kitchen was amazing. That was a very, very nice house.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:12

But yeah, they But I was only there for like a month or two.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:16

You were there for a month and then we and then father had like three small groups all moved into another house.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:23

Into the Quakey house. Yep. And the Quakey house we had had since 2011.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:28

Oh yeah, we'd had it for like eight years.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:31

Yeah. And now and it was kind of the hub of hiding.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:36

Yeah, it was like a caretaker always lived there most of the time, and it was kind of like where people would come to meet and like trade rides and I guess people should also know like when you lived at one of these houses, you never left unless you needed to go to the dentist or something, but going to the dentist or the eye doctor was like a treat. It was like I get to go to the dentist. Because it was the only time you got to leave.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:02

And it was usually kind of looked down on by authority, like mom, she called Uncle Isaac how many times to get her children to go to the dentist.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:13

Well, see, at this time I was doing my orthowork, but the only reason I was allowed to was because everywhere I went, like any time father would move me to a new house in that message, he would say, continue your orthowork. And so when he moved me to live with mom, then he said, continue your orthowork. And so you know, every time like the caretakers would get really frustrated with it, then Mother would just be like, Well, this is what Warren told us to do, you know, and so we always had that excuse, like to get out of the house or whatever, but I don't know. It was always kind of a a uh just an extra thing they had to do. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:53

But so we moved to the Quakey house, and at this point for me, I'm just kind of relieved. Even when I moved with you guys, and then when we moved to the Quakey house, I'm just like whatever. You know.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:07

Well, see, being gathered into a group of people was kind of like a reward. All this time it was like if you got to be with ten or more people, then you were worthy. Like you felt amazing and like you were making progress if you could be with that many people, and so a bunch of people moved into this house all at once, and it was like you're being gathered, you get to be with all these people, and we just felt like that we were just preparing and we were about to go home.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:33

Yeah, and if you did, also dad would also send a bunch of messages.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:37

Yep, you would start getting to hear from him, and which was like the crux of all things. Yeah. It was like the most important thing to hear from Father.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:47

So how old are you at this time? So you're like fifteen.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:51

I'm sixteen. Oh no, I'm fifteen when we moved to the Quakey house, and we lived there for like was it a month? It was a month because we had April 6th conference. We finally got to hear from Father about what we should do for April 6th, and then like a few days later we got to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:10

And that's Jesus' birthday, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:11

Yeah, that's when we believe Jesus was born and died and all the things. Joseph Smith started the church on that day.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:21

I mean, you could practically say father was pre-born that day, or that day is like the biggest day. I do too. Even still, that day is self-reporting. Yeah. Like I'm like with April 6th. We fasted for three days on April 6th. And it was always like the earth, like, for some reason, I don't know if it was ever said this, but it was like Jesus is gonna come on that day. So it was like it was like the the world might end on that day because when Jesus comes in the world will be wiped clean and stuff. Anyway, um I was fifteen at this time and we lived at the Quakey house, which was a house in hiding. We lived there for I would say three weeks maybe. We all got to come together and live in this house, and then we get this call and it says you're supposed to pack up, you're supposed to get yourself packed up and make sure you bring snacks because the drive is gonna be long, and that pretty much just meant you're not going to another house of hiding. It was either like we assumed we were going to 23 in South Dakota because that was the only long drive we could think of.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:32

Yeah, because Texas was gone. Yep. We knew we weren't going to another house of hiding, which we did all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:37

Which would have been just a couple of hours away.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:39

Right, and it wouldn't have been this big of a deal. It'd been like, get your shit ready and let's go.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:43

Yeah. But this time they were like, make sure you bring snack boxes. And so it was like, well, maybe we're going home, because they were like, we're not gonna tell you where you're going until you're I was like, we're going home.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:55

Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:56

Yeah, and we were like, because we had been gathered with this group of people and we were preparing, we were finally good enough, we were gonna go home. We start driving and we go the opposite way of home. We're like, we are not going home. This is not the way.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:10

And pretty soon we hit Grand Junction and I'm in Colorado.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:16

And I remember um the mother asking the driver, she was like, Are we going to Short Creek? And he was like, Yep. And we I swear the spirit in that car dropped the mood, everything. We went totally quiet. It was just like for the rest of the way, it was like we are completely damned.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:42

We were going to Short Creek. And then we get there and we move into Father's old house that we lived in back in 2003. And like I said, I didn't remember it at all. Like I did not remember anything about that house.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:57

And they like now this is kind of a special place.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:02

Well, we didn't know that the first day.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:03

I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:04

We got there, went to bed.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:05

We thought we were going to hell.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:06

Got up, and then our uncle, who was like kind of like father's mouthpiece or like the caretaker over the family, he calls and Shout out Uncle Nephi. Yeah. He calls and he gathers everybody into the main gathering room, and he read us this message, and so before this, father had taken away a lot of the food. Like he had restricted our diets a lot. We didn't get to eat like three quarters of everything that we eat. And in this message, he told us that he gathered like 30 of us together, and we were living in this house, and we were preparing for him to come home, and this was like a step up. Yeah, it's a surprise.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:52

He's like, This isn't the downgrade. Yeah. This is an upgrade.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:55

Yeah, it was like you're preparing for me to come, and you know, you're being gathered together, so that this is like kind of like a gathering place, and so we were like, oh, we must be good.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:05

And I guess the reinforcement behind that was um s like twenty-five of the mothers came.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:13

And there was a couple of us children there.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:15

Yeah. It was only mom's kids, and then um a couple of other ones. But so there was a few of us kids and a ton of mothers, and we were and he like told us where to do the garden. He told us we could plant all this food that we hadn't been allowed to eat for like three years. Yeah, he was like, You go plant squash.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:33

And he said it in a way that was like amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:36

Yeah, it was like this is like you pass the test, you can eat this now, like Heavenly Father will purify it, and it was just insane. Like, we got to do so many things that we hadn't been allowed to eat.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:49

Yeah, and he was also telling us exactly where to plant the garden. We were getting a message like two or three every week.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:56

Oh yeah. And it was like for the people who live in the Short Crick Stake of Zion, and we were so special, and the people in Shortcreek bowed and scraped to us. Like if we needed something, it came that day.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:10

I know that that was a level of service I had never seen.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:14

But it was partly because Father told him to have it that way. Like I remember hearing how he told them, like, if they need something, you you give it to them, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:24

Yeah, it was crazy. And I didn't realize like when we were in hiding, I would call, you know, Uncle Isaac or something and ask him if we could get something, and it would come in a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:35

Or I would just ask the caretaker or whatever to get me something, it would come in a couple weeks or whatever. Yeah. But here it was like that day.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:44

He needed a tiller to till the garden and they drove it down within a half an hour. Yeah. Like, but I also think it's partly because the people in Short Creek hadn't seen Father's Family in so long. Like, we had been so apart from the rest of the community for so long, and it was now that Father's Family was in the community, then it was like they would literally do anything for Father's Family.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:07

Dad, he said I could not step my foot outside that wall. And I did not like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:15

I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:16

Because I could not, but if I asked for something, they would bring it in 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:21

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:22

But I could not step my foot off that point. It was kind of small.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:27

I know. But it was in the fence, though. It wasn't even the entire block. Right. It was like the fence that blocked off that single house. We could not step outside of that fence.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:37

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:37

It was crazy. So it was like it's a privilege to be here, but you are in prison. But the house was really big, and we had a lot to do there, but we were only there for like two months. We were like these good, righteous people for two months, and then it was like, you know what, you're going to hell. Well, so we tell the story there, living there, and we're getting these messages every day. Every day we was like, you are preparing, you are becoming better every day, and we were getting all these privileges, and you get to eat this and that, and you get to you know, all this stuff. And then all of a sudden Uncle Isle shows up at our house. And we are just like, What the fuck? Because we knew he had been in prison. Because we were there in Short Crick, so we knew everything that was going on because we were right there around all the news and or I mean like people would hear stuff and we would hear it from all over, so we were hearing everything that went was going on.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:36

He had been arrested for food stamp fraud.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:38

He had been arrested and he w we knew he was in house arrest and that he couldn't leave and everything, and so one day he just walks in the house and we're just like, What the fuck? Like I mean, I remember to some people it was like he's been delivered, like God just opened the doors, and it was like this is a miracle happening. But what we didn't realize at the time was that he was pretty much threatened, like if you don't do this, then you're going to hell forever or whatever. But he walks in and he was like, I have a message for I think he read a message to the entire family, and then he was like, I have a message for Mother Monica and one of the other mothers, and I did not know what to think, especially because it was Uncle Lyle, and we hadn't even had anything to do with him.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:24

Uncle Lyle did not have anything to do with that family.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:28

He had zero importance to us, he had zero authority over us, and it's funny because the people that lived in Shortcirk, he was like a god to them, but to us, he was like the dirt under our feet. Well, like Uncle Isaac and Uncle Nephi were way more important than he was.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:44

Well, Uncle Isaac and Uncle Nephi were like they talked to Dad every week.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:49

Well, then they were like our caretaker for the whole family for years, and Uncle Lyle was like for Short Crick. Oh, he just been short crick.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:57

Oh, we and then we say we weren't arrogant.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:02

But we were kind of told that.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:04

I mean it was kind of like how dad looked at it. Lyle runs short crick, and short crick was so put down to us. Like, if you live in short cricket, then you're terrible. And that's kind of how dad made it be. So I don't know. It wasn't like he wasn't important, but he just was not our authority over us.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:22

Well, even when he walked in, I'm like, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:24

It's like, what are you doing here?

SPEAKER_03 1:47:25

Yeah. Like you're gonna read us a message from dad? Yeah, it's like off.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:32

I know. So he's talking to Mother for like half an hour, and I started getting more nervous and more nervous, and it was just like, what is about to happen to us? Because a few of the mothers had been sent away forever, like the week before that. So if we had already said bye to three of the mothers the week before and watched them like load a trailer on the other.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:52

One of them was Miller Amy.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:53

Miller A uh Ada Marie. Yeah, Ada Marie had left the week before, and her brother had to come pick her up, so we knew like she was sent away forever to go live with relatives.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:03

Yeah, and when when I first heard she was leaving, I was like, oh, she's probably going back to 23 or something. And then her brother comes and picks her up. I'm like, oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:14

Not by me.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:16

Yeah. And it it kind of became a fear, but also it was like anything could happen, you know, because we've been getting all these messages about how good we were and stuff. And then I see Mother walking down the hall and she is bawling her eyes out, and she motions to me and Barb, and then she's like, I gotta go find Jaden, and so we're just standing there and she's bawling, and I'm like, Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:38

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:39

It was like, we are doomed, we are completely doomed. And she got us and took us out into the garage, and she was like, So I guess we're being sent away forever, and we have to like go live somewhere, and we're not supposed to live in Idaho, Utah, or Arizona or something. And I I didn't even cry at first.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:01

She's like, We've been doing too much self-enlivening.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:05

Yeah, and she was like, We need to like have more of the spirit of God, we need to not be immoral, like we've been too immoral, and I was just like, it was just like getting hit by a train. It was just like I couldn't even think. And I remember like for the first few hours, I was just going on autopilot because it was such a it was just a blow to the face because we've been these good people, and you know, you're finally telling yourself, okay, I might be good enough, and then suddenly then it's just like you're the most evil people on the planet. And also, like, before this, when others of our family had been sent away, we knew that father would send a message and say all this bad stuff about him, and like get rid of all the pictures.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:50

And we had already got one about those mothers that had left.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:52

Yeah, we had gotten messages about everybody that had been sent away before us, and we weren't supposed to think about them, we weren't supposed to talk to them, we weren't anything, and Mother. had been talking to Jasca and Mon before this while we lived in Short Creek. She had got to call them and then she was told she couldn't have anything to do with them and we knew this message would be coming that they could not have anything to do with us and that was that was so hard. That was just like I think that was probably the biggest punishment was like we were being wiped out of eternity. Even out of the records out of everything. Like we were no longer even an option.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:33

I I was in so much shock too. Like I could not bel Dad had been sending me messages from Uncle Nephi.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:42

He would call me and he would read me a message or yeah and I would talk to him almost every day.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:48

And so I was used to like getting things directly from Dad but he just read it to mother and it was supposed to be from me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:55

Yeah which was weird.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:56

And I was like and it was Lyle too so I was also like It was like do we trust this? Yeah. And then so I went and called Uncle Nephi like twenty times.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:09

Oh I believe it.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:10

And he never answered he like would not talk to me anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:13

I remember that he wouldn't answer because I remember we tried calling him a bunch of people tried calling him he wouldn't answer but later I found out he had just been sent away. Yeah he might have been he had just been sent away at that time so I I think that's why he hadn't been answering anybody. But yeah I think that's why he wasn't allowed to read us our messages because he had just been sent away. At least that's what I heard. It's possible and then um so we packed up our stuff and we had been living with Mother Sheena and a bunch of the mothers and stuff and Mother Sheena was so sick.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:47

I know she was so sick but oh she came out there and told me you know this is your final test.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:54

Yeah she was very faithful and very very and I remember like right before we left it finally hit me and I like started crying or whatever and she came over and she like got out of her walk or out out of her little cart that she drove around and came and gave me a hug and that was really rare for her to get up and walk and stuff. Yeah that was that was the end of the world. And that was the first time we had ever left without having a ride so we didn't have so all our lives you have to understand all our lives we had been provided for like food we were given fabric for our clothes like we did work really hard but it wasn't for money. So what we were working for was mostly just spiritual stuff. It was like being prepared for all the spiritual stuff we did not provide for ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:52

And also like we had been kept from like I couldn't step off that property. Yeah I couldn't drive anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:00

I couldn't do anything like the adults didn't even have driver's licenses or anything like that. Like we all our school curriculum from before I even started school they had taken all money out of the system. So we did not even know money like hardly at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:16

Like when we left here I was afraid I wasn't gonna know how to use the credit card at the gas station.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:22

Yeah because we had never done a I had no idea how to fuel a car. I had no idea how to even go in a gas station. It was like completely off limits. And so when he's just like okay you have to go and earn your own way now that was kind of the term he used go and earn your own way you have to move far away and it was like what does that even mean like how do you even get a house how do you even get food because we had never been shopping for ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:49

I mean I had been into Walmart a couple times before that but it was just like but it had been years because at this point like the last time was around tw 2010 when the raid had happened and then we had been more and more isolated up to this point.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:06

And we did not go out for anything except for appointments and yeah it was just like I had I did not even fathom what it meant to earn your own way. Like it was like so much above my head that I couldn't even decide what it meant, you know? And so it was just like what are we gonna do? Like are we just gonna be homeless? Are we gonna go sit on the side of the street? Like so many thoughts were going through my head. But then mother went and saw grandfather Merrill and visited with him before we left and stuff and went and worked out what we were going to do and who we were going to live with and stuff because a lot of times when father would send his family away then he would say you have to go live with your relatives like your former relatives and so I've been telling us to not talk to for about 10 years. That I've been telling you are wicked and immoral for like 20 years and all of a sudden it's like you have to go live with them and it just makes the punishment even more. Because it's like now we have to go and associate with those people you know yeah because they were so bad in our minds anyway so we drove to Colorado definitely not a cult oh no not a cult. At that time we were like no way anyway so I think one of Mother's brothers came and picked us up with a van and the trailer and I don't know it was I don't even a lot of that times it feels like my brain kind of blocked that out now because of how hard it was and just it was dark.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:42

It was just Okay but do you know what happened? I was kind of losing my mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:47

And you didn't hook up the trailer bite You're like the pro at trailers and you did not hook up the trailer bite. I guess that explains what you were going through. Yeah and when we were going out it popped off the hitch I was like oh God Yeah so then we had to sit there and all the mothers were standing at the end of the driveway waving at us and we were balling and it was just insane. Like even I haven't when I talk about this now I realize how much I have not let myself think about that and just different things that have happened it's just like I have not even begun to process that stuff because I have no words to explain like what it felt like and everything. It's just insane.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:32

That was the that day and like the months after were the weirdest point in my life just weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:43

It was like you don't even know what status you're at or like but also you you're you're out in the world now and you could do anything you want but yeah it's like at your fingertips but you want to go dying to go back. Yeah. I would say that was probably the beginning of the end just because that was when we came out into the world that's when we started compromising a little bit like we lived with people that would listen to Gentile music and we started going to parks and stuff and we had a dog it wasn't our dog but we lived with a dog and I feel like I learned a lot about the world like when we moved up to Denver it was like we did our own shopping we we started like being introduced to so many things like going into stores and seeing all this amazing stuff you know like we would go into Cabela's and it would just be like oh my gosh this is amazing and we would buy stuff and it was just crazy I never imagined all this stuff and we had our own car and we just got to drive around whenever and that was just like Yeah we got a car. Yeah I was 16 I had barely turned 16 I barely turned 18 you turned 18 right after we left and got your job and started working and we were moved into a company apartment. So we went and worked for Phase Concrete which was like an FLDS company and we were and you were hired for the company we were hired to cook for the men and I think um we just got that job because one of Miller's brothers was kind of like the boss of the area and we were supposed to go to relatives and that's kind of what Muller worked out with grandfather Merrill and stuff and so we were moved into a into one of FaZe's apartments that they were paying for so technically at the beginning we didn't have to pay for our own house which I don't think we could have done. We couldn't I mean that would be insane so yeah we moved into that apartment for yeah it was nice of them to get the apartment for us. Yeah it was it was kind of a relief because it was like what do we do now and then we got a place to live so you know we weren't on the streets like I was I was so worried. I had seen homeless people before and I was just like are we gonna be like that oh it was crazy. And then we started having to do with a lot more people like one of our cousins lived there and we moved in with her and her children for a while and we just started doing way more stuff like you got into football and you were like with the guys a lot and we would like listen to her music that she would play sometimes she would play Phil Coulter sometimes which was like so bad and Gentile but we would secretly listen to it and we started like getting games to play and just a little bit compromising just a little bit but we were also told we had to be prepared to go back in seven months. So seven months was like our timeline if you're not back in seven months then you're kind of just doomed forever. Yeah so we were trying to be good kind of I was so there's this one time I have to tell you about um you guys were at the the construction yard what we called the yard and you guys were out there playing football. And we're living in uh Denver right now yeah we're living in the Denver area and the company had a big yard for all their equipment and you guys were out there throwing football and we came to drop off dinner and T and the person we lived with accidentally ran over the football. She didn't pop it it just went under the car so she got out and gave it to you guys and I just felt like you guys were just compromising way too much. And so when we got back in the car I said her name You ought to take that out okay I don't want to get in trouble. Um so when she got out of the car and gave it back to you she got back in and I was like you should just run over that football and tell them to go read the scriptures I was so scared that you were gonna be damned forever. Oh I remember and she thought that was so funny. She would laugh and laugh for days about that because I was so serious I was so fucking serious just like those guys are going to hell.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:34

And what's crazy is she's still there and we're all gone.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:38

Yeah I know and whenever we try to talk to her now then she's like no it's crazy. Anyway so we we kind of started compromising a little bit and like you guys got phones but we didn't have internet or anything I feel like we were pretty good at that time.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:56

We were we were pretty good I have not even started to leave.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:00

Yeah but I feel like I don't I wouldn't say it was it the reason I say it was kind of the beginning of the end was because like that's when we were introduced to the world. Like we were introduced to the possibility of something else. So I feel like that's kind of where dad went wrong is like he put us out where we had the opportunity to learn other stuff.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:21

Unless he unless he knew unless he wanted to do that I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:24

I don't know I just think if he wanted everybody to stay faithful and be and go to heaven and stuff like if that's his main goal then why did he send all of his family? Because I don't know of any of his family that didn't come out and yeah the thing we didn't know is that was happening to everybody.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:40

Everybody not even just our family even if it wasn't that week the rest of the people in Short Creek every last one of them were gone within a couple months.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:49

Yep of our family everybody was sent away but we didn't know that because we weren't allowed to talk to anybody.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:54

And we weren't even allowed to write letters to dad anymore.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:57

That was probably the biggest punishment of all it was like you have to write letters to Uncle Lyle which was like I did not know how to write letters to Uncle Lyle that was so weird. It was like bear my testimony in about this big of a paragraph and be like I want to go home and I don't know it was oh we just we didn't know him for one. And for the other he had been sent away just a month later yeah so we were writing letters to nobody it was crazy and then the seventh month mark came and we did not get a phone call and I was I was devastated I was it was like okay we're doomed and right when I began to accept that after nine months and I began to accept that you know we're just doomed forever then we get the call to come to meetings and like we get this message and father's telling us to move down to Cedar and be under one of Mother's brothers and he was like our caretaker now and he should rent a house he should rent a house and we should like start preparing this was like something special. This was like so amazing that we got this message and you know most of Mother's kids were living with her now and it was just like we were moving up in the world finally it was like the next step to going home and we got to go to these meetings that turned out to be absolutely insane. But so we started going to these meetings we moved down to see her you know I think my uh mother's brother spent so much money on that but you know he was just trying to obey like the rest of us anyway so we moved down there and start going to these meetings and everything and I don't know it was weird because the whole people was there and all of our lives Father's family had been so separate. Well 500 of them well yeah but it was like everybody that got to go we just all sat together. And like and in Texas whenever like we never went to meeting at the meeting house and if we did we were told to sit in the very back of the room and we would leave before anybody else did. And so our whole lives we were so separate from the rest of the people and then we go to these meetings and we're just mixed in with everybody and I am not a social person. I am not after that I do not I do not like people and it was hard it was it was so scary and I would go in there and sit on my chair and hold still the entire time and it was so nerve wracking but anyway after a after a couple weeks then we get another call from Russell Johnson and he's saying that me and Jasca have to move up to Idaho and that mother and Barb are these wicked people now and they have to move far away and we had to go live with um one of actually one of mother's mothers like someone that was married to mother's dad so grandfather. And we were told we had to go live with her and she was kind of like our caregiver now and I didn't know her I didn't know her in the least and that was really hard we said bye to mother and then mother's brother drove us up to Idaho you didn't come with us at that time. I was in Idaho so you were sent to work with mother's brother and you were in Idaho but we didn't get to talk to you. So we were living like not in this on the same property but you guys were living like 15 minutes away and anytime you came we didn't get to talk to you or anything. I remember sneaking in a conversation here and there and it was just like hi and the mothers would be like so we moved to Idaho and mother moved away and it was just another time of being separated from her and another time of thinking that we were doing so good and then suddenly we were so terrible again. But we still got to go to meetings. Yeah um we cut this part out if I ask you a question really what should I say about Naomi Jessica whatever the fuck you want she tortured us there. She got her own revelations about mother and about what we were supposed to do and everything you can say it's fine with me.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:32

Oh I don't know because it really kind of did shape how that place was and how it went should I say her name or should I just say one of the mothers just say her name I don't know you could you could uh you could say her name and then I'll just like clip it okay just like yeah because I feel like it did impact a lot of stuff that happened at that time.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:06

Yeah pull the mic a little bit closer anyway so we move up to Idaho mother moves I had no idea where later I found out she moved to Oklahoma and then you were in Idaho too but you know we didn't get to talk to you and stuff and we lived with um one of mother's mothers for a month or two and then I don't know how to talk about her I think she's she's okay with it. She has asked me forgiveness so many times and I'm just like I don't want to talk to you I don't know if I can forgive her. Anyway so we were still going to meetings and um one one of the weeks we were down in Shortcrick going to meeting we would go there and stay at a house that was empty and all of our family somehow we landed at one of the houses there.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:05

We would stay there go to meeting and then we would all drive back to where we were living and yep every week we would drive down there go to meeting and leave from meeting and go all the way back up to Idaho or wherever.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:18

And people clear from Kansas and Illinois and people were coming from all over ever to those meetings every week which was insane. And then um we started doing the letters so father would like write letters to the nations of the earth and he would have the people that were coming to meeting he would have us put them in envelopes and label them and send them off and there was all of the people would come and help. So that big meeting house that room would be filled with people just doing letters and stuffing envelopes and putting labels on and stamps and we thought it was so cool and we were just helping the work of God by sending all these crazy messages to people that they were killing so and so and that tomorrow they were gonna do this and that and it was insane now that I think about I'm just like how did we even It's another level of genius right there What the fuck anyway we were down at meetings one week and we had been doing letters so usually when we would do letters we would stay there for the week and then we would have meeting on Sunday and then we would go back to Idaho for a week and then normally so normally it was every other week we were doing letters and so it just kind of became our routine but one of the times we were down there then Naomi Jessup came and told me and Jasca that father had told her that she was supposed to be our caretaker now.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:55

Yeah and she's then that was legit.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:58

So later I found out that she actually was told to come there but I don't think she was directly told to be our caretaker.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:07

And she was uh Dad's favorite wife for a long time back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:12

So she was one of the scribes for a long time she was like one of the important mothers for a long time and then she was told to come and be our to come and live with us and I actually don't know the details about her being told to be our caretaker because I thought later then someone confirmed that she wasn't actually told to be on us two girls. But anyway she came and told us that she was supposed to be our caretaker and that we were supposed to move away from mother's the mother we were living with so one of our what would you call them our aunts maybe no I don't know what you'd call her but who? Mother She's one of mother's mothers I don't know I don't know if there's a word for that. Grandfather Merrill's she's not

SPEAKER_03 2:12:00

I mean she's a grandmother, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:12:01

Oh, I guess she'd be one of our grandmothers.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:03

But she's not actually a grandmother.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:05

We're not related.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:06

But we would consider her a grandmother.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:07

Yeah. One of Grandfather Meryl's wives.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:10

And she we were told grandmother. We were told to not live with her anymore. We were supposed to come and live in in our uncle's house with Naomi Jessup and some of our other family that was living there. And she was supposed to be our caretaker. Anyway, so we moved there. You know, we made that change and everything. We continued going to meetings and stuff. And then after a month or two, meetings stopped. And like we drove down to Short Creek. We were sitting by the meeting house waiting to go in, and Russell Johnson came out and told us that there was no meet no more.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:50

I have a picture of that. I'll put it on the screen. Yeah. Wow. A whole bunch of cars lined up waiting for the game. Then Russell comes out finally, and each car drives by and he tells them like meetings are shut down. Fucking get.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:03

Yep. That was kind of devastating because it was just another setback, you know? The people felt like they were getting somewhere, and now it's just like we're so bad again. Anyway, so we just went back up to Idaho, and I would say the thing about meetings, it was a relief because up in Idaho things were so intense. Like just the environment we lived in, it was so intense that when we got to go down to meeting, then it meant we got to see people and we got to do different things and it wasn't so controlled and so.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:34

Yeah, and just so people understand, we have uh one of Mother's brothers who's kind of uh this he's like a solid FLDS type of person. Oh yeah. Okay. And so he feels like he's the head of this.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:52

It's kind of like the priest had head over us.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:54

Yes. And then you have Naomi Jessup, who is kind of who once was one of Dad's favorite wives and his chief scribe kind of.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:05

She used to be an authority figure.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:07

Yeah. And so then you have one of Dad's other wives who also was kind of a scribe. Yeah. And then you have Mother Stelle.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:22

That's a whole other situation. You have a combination of dad's wives that just was not ideal. It was not.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:33

And they're all sisters.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:35

They're all sisters, and they're all Grand Palomaro's daughters, and so when he would come, he would hear their stories first, and then he would get after us. He would they would get us in trouble with him, and it was just a constant it was control to the point where Okay, but also Mother Mother wasn't here, so she didn't have anything to do with it. So mother wasn't here, so she couldn't stand up for us either.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:00

And um we gotta tell people, like Naomi Jessup's right in Revelations.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:08

Okay, but this is after meetings stopped.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:11

So after meetings stopped, we went up to Idaho and kept living our lives, but now we weren't going to meetings anymore. And this is what I meant. Like going to meetings, we had a change of scenery. But after meetings stopped, we were just there all the time, and that is when the crazy started. It was like a month after meetings stopped, then one day, then Naomi Jessup calls, and she had been disappearing for days, and she was supposed to supposedly supposed to be our caretaker, and she told us that we were supposed to move out of the house because we were not supposed to live in the house with any boys, and our brothers lived there.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:52

And your brother? Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:54

Some of the boys lived there, and she told us we were supposed to live in a different house, and that we were supposed to um live, like who to live in what room together in this new house, and that we were supposed we weren't supposed to work, we weren't supposed to go shopping, like me and Jasca couldn't drive anymore because we were learning how to drive so we could get our driver's licenses, and we she literally took all our freedom away. Like we could not even go outside hardly.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:25

Via revelation. Via revelation, and you know, we were so supposedly from dad.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:31

We were so faithful and so starved for direction and revelation from dad that we just went along with it. We moved all our stuff, we moved to this other house. We went through hell to obey these revelations.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:46

And she's like was was one of Dad's main people that could be.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:52

So it wasn't a surprise. It wasn't a surprise that she was the one reading us as revelations. Anyway, and then she would have these times when she would leave for a week, and then she would show back up at the house, and then she would be in her room for hours, and she would come and tell us that she was suffering and that she was atoning, and then she would tell us that she was typing up these revelations from father, and she was she had to go meet people and give them revelations and stuff, and so she kind of became this important figure again, and everybody was just doing what she said. And she was so I don't even know how to explain it because she was very physical at that time. It was like the first time I had ever had someone be that physical with me. And even even emotionally, she was so manipulative. Yeah, she gave us she would read revelations to me and Jask almost every week about mother and how terrible mother was, and how mother had all like nearal disease, and really all this stuff was happening with mother, and that we should forget that she ever existed, and so it was like we were going through this war of trying to survive there, and then mother's identity was being wiped from our existence, and it was just and then she cut us off from everybody. We couldn't even go over to the main house where we had been living before.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:17

And just so everybody knows, these revelations were not from dad.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:21

Later we found out that she had been writing them herself. This was when um she changed my name. So I grew up with the name Sweetie, that was just my nickname, and she told everybody they had to call me Marie. And that is where the trauma from that name comes from. Like, do not call me that because I will not appreciate it. Yeah. But she she told the entire family while we were going to meetings to call me Marie. And so there was just a lot of changes. She isolated us from everybody. We didn't even get to see our own family that lived in Idaho like we had before that. And yeah, it was just hell. And it was rough, but eventually she started disappearing a lot, and we were just left on our own. We'd be left in that house for days by ourselves. And it was just like we didn't have a phone, we didn't have anything. Anyway, so eventually she showed up one day and gave us another revelation saying that we were supposed to move to back to our uncle's house where our brothers lived, and we were supposed to be on with Mother Stelle. Me and Jasker. And um we were supposed to live there and whatever. So we moved back over there, and that's when our uncle got his trailer house, and we remodeled the trailer house on his property and stuff, and that's what we moved into because his house wasn't big enough for us all. So we moved into this trailer house, and we're just being so good, and you know, father's giving us these revelations, and um Naomi Jessup would call on Sunday and read revelations in our meetings. Like that is how that is how intense it was and how real it was because that's what had happened all our lives. She would call and read us this messages during meeting and stuff, and it was just like God was speaking to us. We were so good, we were so faithful. Anyway, it was that way for so we lived in Idaho until January of 2018. And by this time we hadn't seen you in months. You I don't even know what had happened to you.

SPEAKER_03 2:20:44

Dude, I was working for Rich.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:45

You were working for Rich, but you were also going to meetings. I'd had no idea that you were. I was going to I started going to meetings.

SPEAKER_03 2:20:52

Oh no. I stopped working for Rich.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:55

You were working for Joe.

SPEAKER_03 2:20:56

I stopped working for Joe.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:58

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 2:20:58

I went down with Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:01

You were working for cabin with cabinets.

SPEAKER_03 2:21:03

I went down and started Well, I was going to meetings. Yeah in the meetings dad had said like grandfather Meryl and Joe and all those guys were bad.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:21:12

So I left them, went and started doing cabinets. So yeah, I hadn't been there for like three months.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:17

Yeah, see, like all this time I had no idea what happened to you. You just stopped coming around, and I hadn't gotten to go back to meetings. I didn't know anything about meetings anymore, and so we were just living in Idaho, and you know, the end of the year came and turned 2018 and it was winter, and we were just trying to another thing that that really threw me off was um the uncle we were living with. He would gather the girls and take us by ourselves on trips and like he whenever we would go on an outing or something, then he would have all the girls ride by ourselves with him. And then um like as time went on and stuff, then he would have us call him. And it was kind of like he was trying to be our dad or our priest at head or something, but it was even at the time it was just creepy. Just weird. And I think partly he was doing that because of Revelation's name when we just up read to him that he was supposed to be like our figure or father figure or something, I don't know, but it was so it was to the point where even I felt uncomfortable and it was like this is weird or whatever, and I didn't mind going with Grandfather Merrill by myself, but yeah, it was just so strange, and so he he kind of became a terror to us, and it was like, is he in there, is he in there, like is he coming to our house, you know? And um so in 2018 then we were kind of going through this, and I we were it was a Sunday, and all of a sudden we get a call, and the mothers are in on the phone for a few minutes, and then they come and they're like, I guess it's for you. And so me and Jas go in our room and um it was Mel on the phone, and she read us this message from father telling us that we were supposed to go live in Fargo, North Dakota with mother and all of her children. And it specifically named every single one of her children, it specifically named that we were supposed to go to Fargo, North Dakota, and um also it told I don't remember if it told Jasca this, but it told me that I had had venereal disease and that Heavenly Father had healed me of it, and I had to stay strictly stay clean and pure to not get it again.

SPEAKER_02 2:23:46

Dang.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:47

And what I didn't realize is by this time you had heard tons of crazy messages, but I hadn't heard any of that crazy stuff. So when he was saying this, I was devastated. And this is embarrassing, but the thing about it is like the week before I had had a really bad UTI. Because Yeah, we won't say why, but um, we can say why, but I don't want them to know why. But it kind of became a punishment. Like, but I got a UTI because I like after so many corrections from Naomi Jessup, then like I wouldn't let myself like go to the bathroom and stuff to try and punish myself because I felt so wicked. I don't know, because I was so immoral. But anyway, I had had a UTI like the week before, and then I get this message that I had had venereal disease, and it just confirmed that it was true. Because I just figured that's what venereal disease was. I had no idea. I had no idea what venereal disease was, and I still hardly I mean I know what it is now, but anyway, so it just confirmed it in my head. I was like, wow, I've been healed. Anyway, so um we were told that um Jaden was gonna come and pick us up, and we were gonna go meet Mother, and we were gonna move to North Dakota, and Father, and in our message, father said $12,000 to give us $12,000 to move. And so me and Jask, we just hung up the phone and we went and started packing, and we decided we were not gonna tell anybody what we were doing, and they were all just like standing in the doorway, just like, what is going on? And we were just like, Finally, we are leaving this place. And so we told them we were like, somebody's coming to pick us up in like three hours, and they're coming to pick us up and we're going. And I don't know what went on in their heads, but I was so happy. I was just like, God, I'm getting out of here.