Web3

Welcome to the unDavos Summit - A community-organized series of interactive panels, talks, and networking taking place in Davos, Switzerland - and online - in parallel to the World Economic Forum’s Annual Meeting 20-24 Jan 2025. Our mission is threefold: 

• Democratizing Davos: We open the doors to diverse voices and ideas, breaking down traditional barriers to participation.  
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Join us for the "Gaming & Web3" session, where we will delve into the exciting intersection of gaming, entertainment, and digital platforms. In this panel discussion, we will explore how gaming is not just reshaping the way we consume entertainment, but also leading the charge in redefining business models and immersive experiences in the digital age. 

Featuring a diverse lineup of industry experts, this session provides valuable insights into the latest trends and innovations driving the future of entertainment and gaming.

Moderated by:
Mike Butcher  
Editor-at-large, TechCrunch  
Mike Butcher (M.B.E.) is a renowned journalist and tech industry leader, recognized as one of Europe’s most influential figures by Wired UK. He has led discussions at prestigious events, including the World Economic Forum, and has significantly contributed to initiatives like Techfugees and TechVets.

Panelists include:  
Agne Linge  
Head of Growth, WeFi  
Agne is an expert in financial services innovation and blockchain technology, with a background in decentralized finance and deep expertise in crypto.  

Bill Laboon  
Director of Education and Governance Initiatives, Web3 Foundation  
With experience in academia and a passion for software testing and cryptocurrency, Bill brings an educational perspective to the governance of Web3 technologies.  

Yip Thy-Diep Ta  
CEO, J3D.AI Labs  
An advocate for human-centric collaboration and gender equity in emerging technologies, Yip is known for her thought leadership and contributions to educational initiatives in AI and Web3.  

Don't miss this chance to engage with thought leaders and discover how the future of entertainment is evolving. 

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Transcript

(00:01) [Music] okay hi everybody we are back uh come on in if you're coming in if you're not don't Etc come on in I think we'll just close this um come on in if you if you would like otherwise I don't know right um we're going to now uh I think we we're going to do a lot of um bit riff here now on the sort of web 3 and and the economy and its impact um you got a little bit of a preview earlier uh we did actually raise the the issue of trump coin and Melania coin and and even those those even though those kinds of things are very much of the
(00:52) cultural Zeitgeist as we like to say in England um uh there are wider implications and what I think is as a journalist um having tried to tried to unpack this space for a few years um I've always looked for the real world consequences the real world impact not just you know pump and dump and you know mcoins and the yard yada but the real world impact on economy so let us have a little discussion about this um I've got um possibly the best looking panel in in Davos um uh and uh let's not including myself um so uh let's hear from uh agna agna
(01:43) agna L uh agna from weed chain uh Bill uh from padot Melody from Spartan and Yip from Jedi or is the right way to say it Jedi and uh so round of applause for our panel ladies and gentlemen these people have dragged themselves out of out of bed after spending staying up until 3:00 in the morning in the hotel Europe I'm joking I prob well that's what I did anyway um so let's let's just uh we'll do a little bit of an intro round um starting with you agna just give us 30 seconds what you're working on right now what kinds of things you're
(02:21) interested in in at the moment so um how does it work hello yes it's working hi everyone it's pleasure to be here uh magnet Ling and I work in ftech and crypto ecosystem I've been in this area for over eight years right now I worked with centralized exchanges uh built defi projects and right now I'm working for Wii Wii is a now bank and we also operate a wi chain uh which helps to operate Financial infrastructure uh our goal is to make U Financial Services accessible to everybody what we're propagating is actually economic freedom
(02:57) we understand that a lot of people never had um access to to financial services loans or or anything uh even bank accounts and with Wii this is what we're trying to revolutionize we're trying to give access to Banking and to to banking services to people fantastic thanks so much Bill hi I'm Bill leoon uh Director of Education and governance initiatives at web 3 Foundation uh I come from an academic background before this uh teaching at the University of Pittsburgh uh so I work on polka dot uh especially on increasing decentralization on
(03:29) ensuring that everybody can contribute uh and helping to make sure that polka dot in a uh very secure manner supports over 50 blockchains that are running on it currently great y hello wonderful wonderful s Souls here in in Davos my name is yep I'm the CEO and founder of Jedi our vision and mission is to make peace more profitable than war and we think the first step is to accelerate interdisciplinary and international collaboration that's what we do here in Davos fantastic you you replacing United Nations or uh uh I'm just kidding the
(04:11) network States let oh Network States oh let's talk about that's a good that's a good topic okay go ahead Melody hi um my name is Melody I started my career in traditional Finance Investment Banking um I uh um got bitten by the I guess the crypto bug in 2015 and uh we um launched a Spartan uh group in 2017 and just focused on investing in web 3 and uh building and Advising um web 3 project um I'm very much inspired by um how um Capital has uh been formed um by crypto and uh how that unlocks um accessibility to um not only Founders startups um
(04:54) Founders uh projects and also um investor in also individual investors so yeah fantastic thanks so much um well um we wanted to talk about the economy of the future now let's think about what do let's think about the how the economy works at the moment people go to work they get paid a salary maybe uh there is obviously things like gig economy work um uh it's in fat currency most of the time vast majority of the time um we've had some interesting experiments such as in Venezuela I think where people got Bitcoin uh sorry El Saad apologize wrong
(05:30) country um but yeah so that's happened um I think the the the El the um El Salvador experiment was that mostly was that people got an app on their phone and they were got little got given a little bit of cryptocurrency and then basically they sold the cryptocurrency and just used the the financial you know app on their phone for in a fintech manner like a banking app so that was interesting um and um I think one of the problems we've had over the last sort of 50 years I suppose is that uh we started off um we were told that if we worked
(06:09) hard we would be able to pay for a house and pay for the kids and then we'd be able to retire and then the kids take over and everyone's happy now um we can't nobody can pay for anything nobody can afford anything uh nobody can buy a house uh no wonder digital nomadism has taken off because nobody can actually afford to to have any kind of like property virtually um unless you got lucky and bought some Bitcoin in 2010 or something crazy so um uh so that's going on so how is uh web 3 and blockchain going to improve the world from here on
(06:49) just a small question um should we go with you melody first yeah great just solve all our problems soling all our problems um well I think web3 allowed you to put uh money where your mouth is like it does give you an opportunity to own a piece of something right you don't not you can't really if you if a young person you start working you have a bit of capital if you um if you have time you do your study you do your research um and you um believe in a piece of technology and you contribute a piece of technology it doesn't only allow you to
(07:25) um draw a salary it also allow you to own a piece of um a stake of a bigger protocol that if your work contribute a bigger um success of the protocol you'll also you know get paid it's almost like yeah if you back in the days you have you the only thing you can buy is a house and if the house price goes up and yes you will make money but um today is you can own a piece of um uh protocol right and uh you can continue to um be rewarded by your contribution so I think that unlocks um true ownership of of Technology from is how is um this is for
(08:01) anyone who wants to maybe B you want to jump in how is anyone how do we get past the idea that really it's just sort of the greater fool and the Ponzi scheme criticisms um of assets going up and you know it's kind of like a hot potato and everyone's playing musical chairs and eventually at the huh PVP like peerto peer means like you know um we're just fighting each other with who where the money goes yeah and eventually all the world's energy is used up on trying to kind of hold a couple of Bitcoin together um what how
(08:34) do we get past that yeah I I uh I think it's actually a good segue you had you know accidentally said Venezuela instead of El Salvador and excuse me people forget there was you know this Venezuelan experiment of energy backed crypto and we see what El Salvador is doing on polka dot we see like uh something else right where there's you know staking rewards being sent to help pay for Developers for the network what I think what crypto is going to allow how it's going to do this it's hard for anyone to predict but what crypto allows
(08:59) house is for all kinds of different experiments to take place and very easily uh you know try something new see if that works and see if something else Works um and I don't know which is going to be the correct one but I think that blockchain technology is what lets us try these things out and figure out what the next step is how much longer do we have to wait for the experiment to start working or or has it already worked because when was when was uh Bitcoin invented 2009 2008 uh so we had a several years now for it to this experiment to to play
(09:33) out and work is it working now or is it going to work better in the future um so just for contextualization this has been 16 years only 17 years since Bitcoin has been up and running and actually when we look at the market caps of today when you look at the most valuable companies in the world today like across the globe top 10 70% are american-based tech companies it's the Google the alpha what is it meta Google Amazon and so on they hold basically all the market caps now when we project that maybe 10 years into
(10:10) the future it will still be technology companies why because technology companies historically have driven down the costs um of humans interacting with each other through technology you think of the first internet web one that drove the cost of information to zero or the marginal cost of information everyone can all the certain tap into the global wealth of wisdom at zero marginal cost as long as you have internet access then web 2 Amazon the rise of Amazon the rise of Google Cloud the rise of the mobile phone what did it do it drove the cost
(10:44) of communication the marginal cost of communication down to zero now like since 2005 we can talk to each other even using Zoom video not only text and we don't pay a single dime if we have internet access so now what is the next step well pay with data you pay on the data you pay with your privacy effectively cuz Mark zuberg owns my phone my phone number now basically this is why there's a really big use case for blockchain Technologies and cryptocurrencies for decentralized um how do you say coordination of economic
(11:19) transactions in preservation of privacy and this is the technological backbone of the economy which we call the web 3 economy it would drive down the cost of economic transaction to zero and then we have true globalization and you will see it in the market caps who of you is actually really familiar with web 3 in in this room or yeah so majority maybe hearing about web 3 for the first time and this is the beautiful thing about Davos the world leaders listening to economic Paradigm Shift um uh you said something there along
(11:56) um um think uh privacy so I want to come back to that in a minute later on um especially in regards to governance and things like that but agna um you at uh is it we chain or Wei or it's word so we switch it off Wei is part of we chain is combination so I'd like to so what's your what's your answer you're doing working on economic freedom but how are you doing that so I'd like to follow up what Yip actually said um about internet and how you know you now have access to things um yesterday I was listening to a speech uh
(12:32) by Brian AR Armstrong of coinbase he said why cannot money move like internet like what we're talking about the wealthy people they they are protected from inflation they they have the real estate they can Access Loans you know they can leverage they do business etc etc what we're talking about is those people who are poorer let's call it this way who do not have access to mortgages as you said they they cannot purchase they cannot even perhaps you know access um bank accounts or whatever to purchase Bitcoin so what they are facing is
(13:02) Transmissions right their remittances they're sending money back to the countries where they're working and you probably know how much does it cost to send money it's crazy like it's I know from 20 to $100 to make a single transaction plus it takes how many days to send those money abroad from UK to Nigeria or whatever so this is what we're talking about so blockchain technology is already solving this problem by uh streamlining the transactions we know that the settlement is is zero right um you know the the
(13:31) block the block confirmation time and uh what I wanted also to follow up on your uh specific question when is going to change the world I think it's already changing with stable coins look at the countries uh that have a high inflation rate so people in those countries that have access or understanding about stable coins they want to get out of their inflationary currency and go to usdc or usdt just to protect what they have because cash is the only thing they have on this day and we know so people are doing that and businesses who are
(14:02) already operating let's say in Nigeria or in Latin America or in Asian countries to get the money out you have to go to ston and then you do the transactions to get because otherwise nobody's going to take your naira and transfer to to United Kingdom United States isn't um stop me if this is a stupid question but isn't Bitcoin the only anti-inflationary currency because there's only 21 million Bitcoins because I mean you take things like xrp and ripple that's all just mined by the company effectively um and that mcoins
(14:33) similarly uh Dogecoin or whatever you know it's it's all you know it's there's no ends to this it's infinite virtually isn't it so it is actually all is actually similar it has that a finite number of tokens they're mine and people just started but a lot of these things just don't so um I think it depends AR they part of the inflationary economy no I think you know it depends I think that's a very specific question um why you design tokenomics um the way it is I think Bitcoin seres a certain purpose it's why they want to have a capped uh
(15:07) Supply and ethereum has inflation because um it is not uh a a reserve currency it's really built as a a computation platform and you want to have certain inflation so that um there will be um new distribution like coming out of the the network to incentivize additional economic behavior so it's really about how you design the toonomic um but uh if you specifically talk about uh store value yes Bitcoin has a finite number um and that's probably one of the reason why Bitcoin is a better sort value compared to many other crypto
(15:42) assets right yeah uh if I may add to that it's like really an economy of the future you could think of it as Bitcoin maybe as gold in your asset portfolio then you have technology assets in your portfolio and it's really techn I really want to stress the point if you're new to web 3 and you leave this room that web 3 is not cryptocurrency speculation it's the technological backbone of the economy of the future and we're seeing it already mirrored in the market caps and every project you can look like coinmarketcap.com is the place where you
(16:15) see like the index of the largest cryptocurrencies and then you can see the philosophies at the moment at at this very moment it's like different Islands every island has its own culture its own philosophy its own policy and governance and maybe bill can speak about it but they decide the people who kind of build this technology they decide on how they are doing the incentive mechanisms of course together with their investors their stakeholders and so on and there's a lot of competition of who has the right model
(16:43) of how much inflation should the inflation be capped should the inflation be defl deflationary should the community have the power to vote and change the rules and and I don't I don't know maybe but but surely um now um I then we could also get into the subject of the network States idea and whether um how to summarize Network States effectively where people take over their kind of like a city state almost like an Athenian city state where people come up with their own uh method methods for for governing themselves in the anglosaxon
(17:16) era in England there there was a uh excuse me my phone's getting I apologize uh there was um there was a concept of anglo-saxon Justice uh where you would effectively fight the other person to the death you know that kind of thing that um and so there's all sorts of ways of doing this you know a um the Athenians had their own ways Etc are we going to enter a a rather experimental era where some uh people say we're going to create a little city over here and we'll operate certain way using web 3 some people over here use it operated
(17:58) differently surely there must be a perfect model for this I think if you don't have military power you better not start isn't it is it the Golden Rule as in with the people the gun defend yourself and you become really rich and people want to is going to want to take over what you built so I think I think it's a I don't think it's realistic you don't so you don't think this whole network State thing is realistic I think they're just like uh real estate projects right so I I'll just be spicy and against it um so so but re really quickly you
(18:34) know something I think that you sort of touched upon here and I think that goes into this is you know saying like the specific things that blockchain might bring you like all right C inflation or difference governance models I think the big thing that all this brings you that blockchain brings you is that we can all agree on rules you know the people that belong to this group to this blockchain will agree on some rules inflationary tokenomics this type of governance this type of network State Etc okay so now
(18:58) let's uh you know do you it depends on when you're talking about physical places or it's just like a virtual kind of identity or a virtual existence right so I think if it's a physical location you actually want to I think a lot of the network State uh topics we had is really about acquiring a piece of land building a city on your own um so that's the physical and the virtual uh connection I think it's it's very difficult to is difficult and I will grant you there have been several failed experiments you know like like Sealand
(19:29) um liberland Etc um I couldn't call it a failed experiment but it's not you know a lot of experiments of of this nature have have failed in the past you know liberland is still going strong though nothing against liberland um but uh you you also see a lot of Nations uh you know I look here in Switzerland you know uh lonstein right lonstein is not on its own a huge military power right um you know that uh however you know they have certain rules they still live under a prince they are they have developed a way to work under their own rule system
(20:02) in this broader system of of great Powers uh and I think blockchain technology helps that right so I'm not saying that uh oh this is going to be like the next you know like there's going to be three world powers and one of them is going to be a network state but I do think it is something that can exist and we've seen similar things happen in the past to draw it back to our theme of the economies um you know we you could design a very small Comm using blockchain and and you know if you're in lonstein you're surrounded by
(20:33) the Alps so nobody's going to come and get you um but if you Max it up to the size of a country like America or or Russia or Nigeria with 160 million people um these we have to talk about the economies in a different way don't we right and that's maybe that's just an obvious thing to say nobody needs to answer that question also i' like to say that U military power is not the same as used to be now it's Information Technology War before you send a tank you know some Rockets now people are fighting you know cyber security is much
(21:11) more important than it used to be before so the war is being done in different tools as well we could have an entire panel on disinformation um we were going to talk about it is super important to understand this what Anne has just said um in the cyber warfare you know in traditional Warfare one bullet equals one victim you have a m it's like a gun and then you can shoot one time in cyber warfare one hack can affect an unlimited number of devices and this is the scale that we're having with the threats and now you think about um Network States or
(21:51) economies and States Nation States how many years has the US dollar and USA been in existence it's been 200 years only 250 years so what happens is we're talking about history as if it were a given because that's what we know as of today Germany as where I was born has been in existence for 35 years in the way it is in existence today and then you look at the Eastern the balans they have been in in place like even less numbers so basically what happens is we cannot assume nowadays that the world we know as of today will exist in the next
(22:28) 100 years or in the next 50 years and we know that very well in the EU where we have all these frictions with um with the war in between Ukraine I mean I'm I'm not super excited by that future because I think um we we're already fairly chaotic as a as a planet as it is and things getting less stable I think I'm I'm not very excited by but this doesn't this bring us to the subject if you just leading back so I can see meland um uh the um uh uh we were going to talk about governance weren't we and so what's the state of governance in web
(23:02) 3 versus economy at the moment is it is there a is have we reached a a point of stability or have we and have we reached a point of agreement about how things should operate in this world especially where web 3 meets for want of a better phrase the real world economy yeah I mean I think in governance we're still in the sort of pre-cambrian era right um and if you look at all the different blockchains doing very different things you look at Bitcoin where there's a oifc essentially uh you know only soft Forks
(23:35) whereas you know polka dot very Dynamic Lots you know thou over a thousand referenda and uh change all the time and I think you know there are benefits and drawbacks to each of these approaches um but I think you know we are going to see more and more onchain Covance I think this is a huge reason for blockchain to exist uh and for that to start impacting the real world more than just what's happening on on blockchain I mean the the I remember the early days and the the the great white the great hope of of blockchain was this sort of more
(24:07) democratization of of of money melody in the as an investor uh are do you feel that uh governance has become uh much more sort of sorted and sort of uh not you know kind of agreed upon in the way things ought to operate or not I I think in reality um decentralization or decentralized govern um depends on the stage I think two leaders are very rare and um if you want things to really happen happen fast leaders needs to have a lot of power them like at the beginning especially when you build something um in web 3 the we have because we invest
(24:51) in a lot of projects right and some of them pre maybe too early try to decentralize their governance um as significantly slows down their growth but when you have too much centralized and opaque governance there's lack of trust in the community especially when you are selling tokens right you are promising people who buy your tokens I will be transparent I will um disclose good and bad right I will speak to community to decide how to move forward when things you know hard things happen so I think it's a really in reality that in
(25:27) practice it's a very difficult thing to to do and even you look at um ethereum now the italic just came in and say I I am stepping in I'm stepping up um I think I think it's because of competition right ethereum is losing uh market share and uh and mind share to salana and salana is very centralized in terms of um you know the thought leader in that community and that's um you know I think vitalic now I mean what the ethereum foundation realized the the foundation wasn't empowered and there not incentivized and
(26:00) um and there was no true leader so I think what wasn't that the point of that was the point of of blockchain that there wasn't going to be one yeah but thing in reality it's really difficult to balance I think I think what we talk about the governance is uh its transparency like decentralized governance provide you that transparency but it doesn't replace decisionmaking and Leadership so that's a very difficult balance so we get transparency on a dictator effectively then you choose not to support right yeah in a way in a way
(26:35) it's kind of like Singapore where it's like you know it's Singapore where where I live it's very much um dictatorship but benevolent and certain transparency but you know people can vote and they can they're subject to Sentiments but um but it do if if you say something uh controversial you might end up in jail no yeah you can you can yeah so it's not really decentralized governance no no yeah but I would say like you know nothing in the world is perfect but a transparent dictatorship or a transparent almost you any type of
(27:06) governance is better than an opaque one where you don't know what's happening so it is a step in the right direction and that's you know what it's always going to be is you can see how many people are in jail versus not seeing how many people I mean I would say that is better if the people know I'm not saying that's a good thing but I'm saying that is one step better and that's what we're here to do right is always make one step better not to just say all right if it's not a Utopia then it's nothing you're right fair enough Let's uh let's get
(27:30) into two two topics quickly then we'll switch to Q&A um the world of work and the world of banking you're obviously world you're interested in know you're interested in in banking and uh people having access to e economic freedom um let's all talk about um how how we how we do that from here on in and Empower people uh what's your what are your thoughts so I checked the panel Topics in the Congress for World economic for and I filtered all the banking and finance related topic and all of them saying the time is now we have to rush
(28:05) we have to look at fex we have to innovate so the incumbent Banks of course they're not serving the needs already they're built on a very old infrastructure so they either have to innovate of course they have to build something new or they have to purchase the fex and integrated services this is very clear for everybody because you know we there is an evolution and we don't not have the people sitting in in front of the till teller you know giving you cash in the bank so uh blockchain technology and artificial intelligence
(28:32) and everything else all the data that we are consuming this has to be utilized in order to create a new Financial infrastructure and financial rates so um I am 100% convinced that the banking is changing uh the banks will not be Banks as we used to know them before uh potentially corporations will be offering uh banking services in Europe we have open banking where a a company can actually also offer you Financial Services I heard that even Uber has a Emi license electronic money institution license in order to service their um the
(29:04) drivers so you can see that this uh financial industry is totally transforming with what we have with all the new technologies yeah totally and in Ireland now uh the revolute is so prevalent people people now just talk about rev they just they just say uh can you rev me this or can I pay can i r can I rev it it's become so ubiquitous um for some reason Ireland is completely taking over Ireland almost completely um and of course on revolute you can have your traditional Banking and you can also have cryptocurrencies as well um
(29:40) but there's a certain centralization there to some extent and then we we talked about uh hopefully I get it right El Salvador uh that with the with the banking app which held crypto but then people just started using it for banking anyway um so uh the is it is it are the big Bank let's let's just zoom out a bit once the big traditional Banks get involved in in web 3 H is it game over for the web 3 players because people are so used to you know dealing with Barclay's bank or HSBC or whatever any thoughts um I I don't think so um as
(30:18) someone who used to BU Goldman Sachs yeah well um yeah we um well Gman is experimenting has been experimenting um a lot of like kind of trade Finance related but it's like you know different different story but I do think a stable coin uh is something that the big bank's very excited about um I think they can offer they can design their own way of uh adding service and um and um and deciding how they charge their customers right in the end I think what we we see is going to be um the foundational uh products because the data and The Ledger
(30:53) are on the same um the same same Ledger and the same data and all the B what whether you are a Traditional Bank whether you are fintech whether you are a decentralized application it's all about user experience whether you can provide the best user experience and may that you know player win and because of the ability to move around your assets lot lot more frictionlessly between all these um front and like applications from One bank to another bank to another defi application to another wallet um is really um made the best product win
(31:26) right yeah yeah um so so I think like you know we've seen like you know banks operate under lots of different economic mechanisms right you know the gold standard and Fiat standard and everything and I think they also could operate you know under a Bitcoin standard continuing to operate but giving two benefits one is that there's you know transparency that you can see you can you know a bank can prove that it has so much you know backing behind it um and also just like the the there's always the opportunity right for people to to not use the bank
(31:57) there's an alternative to them and I think that competition you know this is something was very difficult to do in the past this competition also I think will help to keep banks on their toes but I'm sure they're going to evolve just like blockchain is going to evolve it's just it's more options for people and and more Truth for the world right um now in the final two three four five minutes um I'd like to throw in you know another curve ball of AI and um and and one of the the panel earlier we talked about web 3 and gaming and we almost we
(32:29) just about got to the point where because AI had taken all the real world jobs we now had jobs inside games what a beautiful Utopia it was um and and of course now with AI progressing at the point at this point um and assman was he just literally just making an announcement a few couple of days ago about how he's got some AI agents now which are PhD level agents um I'll have to tell my son who's doing a PhD or planning to do a PhD sorry uh next year um that he he might be out of a job I'm kidding um but um obviously these things
(33:10) get so so intelligent and so useful um where is the the where does that fit into our future economy that we're building here uh on this panel obviously and we'll we'll go off into create our networks data any minute now um where does that where does I fit into this sort of puzzle um does it take over aspects of work does it do work for us can I create something which will which other people um think wow Mike you've created a brilliant AI agent I want to hire it and then it goes off and does work and pays me while I sit back and
(33:48) get a suntan what's our let's go down the line starting with you what do uh with that what do you think um I remember always they say there's a human errand you know the centralized point of failure so we blame humans now now we can blame AI right so somebody programmed it in a wrong way um I think a is definitely beneficial uh what's in terms of finance and banking for fraud detection for artificial intelligence um powered kyc why do we have a person to check all the documentations actually I have a personal story I fail the kyc on
(34:19) one exchange because they say it's a post address not my full address but there was a full address written somebody just couldn't read it like it's actually full address so very annoying for me and I had to go through trouble so I hope that AI will automate some of these minor mistakes that are happening and uh yeah I think it's for banking Financial Services really for automation for fraud detection uh very much important yeah yes it's exponentially useful yeah yeah so so I yeah I like I like to joke uh I like to joke that you like you
(34:52) know blockchain is all about truth and AI is all about lying uh so it's a bit of a joke right but AI that's what it's good at right is making stuff up making new things uh but it often hallucinates because it just wants to say something um and so I see blockchain and web 3 technology as such a great you know mixer or counterbalance to that where AI generated information can point to something or something that's you know made up or potentially hallucinated but it would always have to point at something that is provable on and
(35:20) verifiable on blockchain so I I see this as a going to be a much more integrated path going forward of AI and blockchain right um yeah you're actually you're very interested in the AI world aren't you so yeah I I I think AI cannot work without the blockchain and the crypto and I just think Mike it will not be your agent doing the work for you but it will be your agent representing you or your squad of Agents representing you dealing each agent dealing with the banking with Anne then dealing with the governance
(35:54) voting for you on your behalf dealing with me dealing with her and it will be our agents dealing with each other transacting economically with each other with automated payments that follow the programs or the rules or the guides that you have given into these systems so you kind of taught your agent to do things for you like you would teach your executive assistant right now just that you have 1,000 or 100,000 agents doing work for you I love that scene in her the the movie Her where right at the end of the movie sorry if
(36:25) you haven't seen it I'm about to ruin it for you uh where he says uh but are you talking to anybody else he's falling in love with the AI and she says yes and he says how many and she says 8,316 uh so it's a fascinating beautiful vision of the future Melody have you got any thoughts on this sure yeah um yeah I um I the first time I got I think three years ago I was I got very anxious about yeah because I feel like from the perspective of a crypto or um investor who always think about decentralization you feel like this thing is the most
(37:02) centralized technology one can invent um amass all the power it can find aass all the data in the world it try to replace or um not replace but I Tred to consume as much as possible and try to um um do as much as they can so it's a um I had my moment of um being very anxious I'm still am I I feel very like I'm not sure how to tell my kids like what they should be doing because I don't know whe they're going to have jobs that you know they can do that AI cannot do um I have this like I have this moment like when I
(37:42) think I I had a conversation with Claude and the answers are so good I was like you know what I should just work for him and I was like I should just do whatever he tells me because it makes a lot of sense and he must you know it looks much better all this business plans and white papers and the Technical Solutions features and and think it seems so thoughtful like it better than most of experts right in the in the world because most of experts are only expert in one area but the clot knows everything um so I had this moment I was
(38:15) like oh my gosh like if if AI is going to become sentient what are they going to do so I think the first thing they're going to do is to replicate themselves in um um um temper proof um U permissionless and um Unstoppable infrastructure which will be crypto and which will be web 3 which be decentralized compute um and the currency they're going to use so the conversation I had with Claude is if you are to invent your own currency what would that be so they will invent their own currency right and uh they will have
(38:54) their own economic and they'll activities Go off into space and we'll never see them again I I I don't know maybe if they want to live with us they will if they don't yeah maybe they go explore the the the Galaxy yeah so I think in a way even though I don't know what the future is like excitingly I'm like oh we should build all that infrastructure for AI to have a way to exist on their own without our Interruption uh or disruption it could result in something horrible but uh but I do think it's coming so I I think the
(39:28) best um infrastructure um especially in web 3 or decentralized infrastructure they need to think about how they serve AI how the AI will pick them instead of another infrastructure to be to use it more right right so why human why do we choose Bitcoin as a better store of value over gold and why do AI choose one token over another as their infrastructure provider right you have to think about how do you be a better token for AI wowe my mind's exploding right now with what's got what the potential for uh what that might mean
(40:07) but um uh uh ladies and gentlemen I I want to draw this section to a close um we're going to have some questions now but please give it up for AG from we chain and Wei bill from poka dot Melody from Spartan group and Yip from Jedi and me Mike Butcher from Tech Ranch um do we have any questions uh any questions Q&A I'm going to be like I'll be like the TV show host and wander around go uh when you ask a question you say your name your company and a question thank you okay so I'm an Su uh I'm working for chain for travel
(40:46) I'm the chief growth officer um and uh we are building uh layer one blockchain for the travel industry which is governed uh by the travel companies that themselves um um among them Lans atoui you know them a lot of smaller Siz companies as well and we we are going back to the the start of the discussion we are already working on we have use case live uh a blockchain OTA uh uh and and yes and others and my question is do you see um blockchains evolving for specific Industries because there's the overa blockchain for the luxury industry
(41:25) as well of course Finance Etc great question any thoughts yeah I mean I think that uh you know blockchains for specific Industries are very actually quite useful uh and we see like a lot of these collaborations I always say like you know blockchains are good if you don't you may not trust any one individual entity one individual travel company that would have a chance to cheat but you TR you can trust and prove in the aggregate that they will you know come together um and so you know a lot of these like you know
(41:53) vertical specific blockchains you know we see you know quite a few on on polka dot uh that are focused on for instance um uh you know on AI uh and and you know polka SD based systems as well uh supply chain all these things uh where uh Internet of Things where there are several companies that want to interact and not on you know a broader monolithic blockchain where there's lots of chances for other things to go wrong right the network gets clogged up or you know other things happening they may not may even not want to be transparent outside
(42:23) of their own ecosystem right or you know between their own little group uh so I think having a blockchain that's specific to that is very useful and we'll probably see more vertical specific blockchains going forward really good point um any other questions or points go hello my name is Lano I'm the CEO of LCA we're building virtual Sayo for games like for platform and my question is isn't the fragmentation like everyone launching chains and second layers third layers uh let's say ethereum has a problem arbitrum stops optimism stops uh why
(43:01) don't use like spin up chains and use Bitcoin as a security layer is that an option like there's a possibility to uh put into a Bitcoin block a ZK proof and give Bitcoin actually a brain uh to not only be a store of value where do you like where do you see this going yeah I think there's a lot of research being done uh they're trying to make a Bitcoin um compatible with all these other um um smart like a computation layer right but it's not easy to do uh and uh I think there will be some techn uh some research uh trying to launch I think bit
(43:37) VM is one of them uh I think there's a lot of research being done by saret Foundation um so this the in reality is the tech is not really uh there yet is ready well I haven't I haven't seen it working July last you guys could take this offline last one from Bill yeah I think are we argue back and forth about the tech but let's you I would say like you know there are a lot of disadvantages to building on um on bitcoin specifically and you know this is something like you know we at polka dot have been looking at for a long time
(44:08) right so there's lots of you know again over 50 blockchains running on polka dot but there are certain standards of how they can interact with each other you know this is something that you know other chains haven't done but I think it's something that as you were looking to build it doesn't matter if it's whatever it's on right all of these different l2s or different blockchains should have some way you know some standard in order to interoperate otherwise you get this M mation great um I I think we're going to call it there
(44:33) and I feel free to talk to our panelists any minute now but anyway thanks so much and please join us and have a uh coffee thanks so much [Music]