Scaling Climate Tech - We’re racing past 1.5 degrees, now what

Welcome to the unDavos Summit - A community-organized series of interactive panels, talks, and networking taking place in Davos, Switzerland - and online - in parallel to the World Economic Forum’s Annual Meeting 20-24 Jan 2025. Our mission is threefold: Democratizing Davos, Humanizing Davos, and Bringing Action to Davos.

In this illuminating session, "Scaling Climate Tech - We’re racing past 1.5 degrees, now what?!", we delve into the urgent realities of climate technology in 2025. Despite record investments exceeding EUR 70 billion in 2024, global emissions continue to rise. This panel will explore innovative strategies across various sectors to rapidly scale climate tech and mitigate the climate crisis while promoting economic resilience. Join industry leaders and policymakers as they discuss how we can better harness climate tech's potential for a sustainable and trustworthy future.

Meet our esteemed panelists:

• Saskia Bruysten - Co-founder International, Carbon Equity. A passionate advocate for impactful investments in climate solutions.
  
  
• Jinal Surti - CEO, Epoch. A technology leader reshaping agribusiness to foster environmental stewardship.
  
  
• Henning Rath - Managing Director, Enpal B.V. A seasoned professional overseeing crucial supply chain and hardware development.
  
  
• Chad Frischmann - CEO & Founder, RegenIntel. An innovative mind behind advisory platforms for regenerative intelligence.
  
  

Moderated by:

Philip Stehlik - Partner, Earth Capital. A serial entrepreneur with a robust background in backing climate-driven startups and advancing systemic change.

Don't miss this opportunity to be part of the conversation that shapes a resilient climate future.

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Transcript

Scaling Climate Tech - We’re racing past 1.5 degrees, now what - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tDCO-5E1_s

Transcript:
(00:01) [Music] good morning wow that worked really well thanks um good morning to the four of you I'm super happy that we're here check quickly that the microphone is on hello would you pass do we have another mic my normal voice I know it's the end of De and I but that I didn't get a mic was something I was aware of yet cool yeah we will share no worries thanks well good morning my name is Philip stellic I'm a general partner at Earth Capital where we invest in climate Tech startups and I'm super happy to be here with a wonderful panel of people
(00:50) who actually actively work on scaling Climate Technologies and scaling climate interventions um worldwide and super happy to go into this conversation with you and first I want to just get a quick show of hands who here is actually working in sustainability or climate Tech in one way all right welcome so you probably know a few people in the room um great I'm just going to say a few words about your backgrounds individually and then we Dive Right Back In so super happy to have you Chad here and Chad fres is the CEO and founder of
(01:33) region Intel um a global advisory and education platform supported by a network of system thinkers to create a virtuous cycle of regenerative intelligence and Chad is also the founder of the global Solutions Alliance and um the co-creator of project drawdown which some of you might know so super happy to have you great to be here and we have janal sorti the co-founder and CEO of epoch where they work with millions of Agri businesses around the world to monetize the environmental St stewardship of their land and ginal has
(02:12) 10 years more more than 10 years experience in payments and Supply chains uh previously at Ripple and also bring in um affordable payment rails to the global South that way and we have um Henning rat who is the chief supply chain officer and managing director of Nel group since 2020 and hanning is responsible for procurement Logistics material planning Hardware development supply chain finance and quality management so everything around the supply chain and in addition to his work as MD there Henning is also a member of The Advisory
(02:47) Boards of many other companies um also including solid state batteries and transportation and we have saskia Briston um she is the partner and co-founder um of carbon Equity so co-founder International of carbon equity and carbon Equity is a platform enabling impact investors to scale and democratize investments in climate Solutions and prior to that she co-founded unus social business together with the Nobel Prize Laural Professor Eunice and through Unice she also empowered millions of people with essential services like healthcare and
(03:26) education thank you for being here so we have a brought back around from supply chain to finance to um supporting others in doing the work and I want to get started maybe um talk a little bit about the work that you do and how that directly relates to scaling Climate Technologies and maybe we just do for the first round we just go down the line here to your left okay um hi everybody great to be here um and thank you for the invitation to actually join you here thank you for the invitation to join you here um yeah so so regenerative
(03:57) intelligence is a global advisory where work with different organizations to find the right system of solutions to invest in or to implement at scale that have a Cascade of benefits that multisolve for climate sustainability and regeneration so when I think about climate Tech I think about not only its effect on the atmosphere but what are the other kind of benefits that come along through the implementation of these solutions that can affect and uh uh not only you know a financial return for investors for businesses that are
(04:31) implementing them but also on uh human wellbeing our planetary buing how do how does climate Tech also have an impact on biodiversity human health Etc and so we work with organizations like the world fund one of our founding clients largest climate Tech VC and we evaluate potential portfolio Investments that they that come that that they that they are coming into their portfolio we look at their climate performance potential but we also evaluate their sustainability performance potential their regenerative performance potential
(05:00) so how do these potential companies that they want to invest in not only have a direct impact on the on the atmosphere and hopefully return for the world fund but also have all these Cascade of benefits and I think when I think of how to scale climate Tech we have to think about not just the climate not just Finance but how we're implementing these Solutions and how uh companies are implementing these Solutions are taking an account for the uh the both the Cascade of potential costs that come along with that implementation but also
(05:32) in parallel the benefits that can you know maximize that return on investment outside of just the you know the the monetary return right there's a lot of other types of value that when you implement Solutions you can particularly as a system of solution so what I see in climate Tech is really essential what we try to do is steer our our clients and organizations to look at not just one solution but how that one how a solution or group of solutions fits within a system right because the enabling Solutions and Technologies around an
(06:03) implementation is as just as important as the solution itself that you're trying to implement so it's really a holistic view of how we're uh investing in systems rather than an individual technology or practice or how those individual companies can fit within a broader network of of of solutions than uh hi everyone my name is janal I'm one of the co-founders of epoch uh as Philip mentioned we work with uh the producer side of agricultural Commodities so we're an environmental monitoring and decarbonization platform for uh Global
(06:40) Agri businesses that primarily produce raw materials and commodities uh like rubber Timber cocoa coffee soy so some of our large our customers include the largest uh producer of palm oil in the world uh some of the U uh one of the largest producers of coffee in the world um and what we do with these businesses is we Implement a scalable monitoring um uh technology uh in their plantations uh at any actually any scale so it doesn't have to be a very large producer uh but we help them monetize those uh environmental metrics uh and
(07:18) that comes in a whole kind of host of different incentives uh sometimes directly from buyers sometimes from governments sometimes in the form of financing from development Banks uh sometimes in the form of um uh Aid money uh if there's a direct farmer incentive involved so basically we're we're helping a lot of these commodity producers um uh actually earn an extra Revenue stream on top of the product that they're prod uh they they're producing um we think you know starting at that end of that supply chain is the
(07:54) most powerful because that's really the land use uh conversion doesn't just have a climate impact it has water impacts it has biodiversity impacts and so on and if you help them Drive positive impact there while making more money uh there's a win-win in in the entire supply chain uh and and in the broad ecosystem thanks yeah warm welcome from my side my name is Henning um as Philip mentioned I'm the MD and chief supply chain officer of npal um npal right now is a seven and a bit year oldy company um we started the company with the
(08:32) vision of actually electrifying residential homes um it's based in Berlin and getting rooftop solar heat palms for an residential homeowner is an absolute hustle you have to fill in like 20 applications and papers and everything so we had the vision of let's digitize this and make it accessible to the masses um so Empire um scaled it uh rapidly today we are offering rooftop solar battery EV charging infrastructure heat pumps and combining all of those uh assets into what we call a virtual power plant in the end it's an iot cloud
(09:10) computing solution that uh takes all the the production and the consumption data and we're optimizing it via AI algorithms and we are connecting hundred of thousands of micro power plants into one virtual big one and trading actually Arbitrage for our customers the energy and create um additional revenues um for our customers that is actually in a nutshell what we're doing um so I think today we are really talking about how to scale climate Tech um so very much looking forward to the discussion yeah I have my own mic thank
(09:44) you um yeah so today I'm here to represent carbon Equity um we're a climate Tech investing platform investing in the top venture capital and private equity and also infrastructure funds that in turn invest in climate so it sounds a little bit boring at first what is this woman doing here just investing in funds but um I actually think that this is one of the important ways to scale climate Tech uh because a lot of the big Capital providers like Pension funds at least in Europe in the US or a little better don't dare to
(10:18) invest in a climate Tech because it is just a too risky asset class for them and so we actually see by creating a um a fund of funds we have the ability to to scale uh get more Capital into these very important companies but maybe taking one step back so what's our U Mission at Carbon Equity we have two missions on the one hand a we want to make sure that as much as possible Capital gets into this very very important space but two we're also called carbon Equity um and that second dimension is that we don't just want to
(10:52) make sure that Ultra rich and big institutional investors can invest in this very important asset class but that also let's say a little bit more normal people that have a salary can invest in the climate transition why is that so important well I think we're seeing it left and right happening I'm German I see it in my own country right now the elections are upon us uh five years ago um when the European election was uh was on climate was all the rage and everyone was voting for climate now I see in my own country Germany uh climate is not
(11:25) even a topic on the agenda for the election which is happening in a month because the topic has become so toxic um and how do we detoxify climate uh in various ways a making it less political and I can talk more about that also in a in a in in another intervention but I also feel it's about taking sort of the average more Average Joe again still an average Joe that has a salary with us onto this journey of seeing how they can invest in this very important asset class how they can become part of the climate solution
(11:59) Solutions and in turn also make money while they're doing this because that's of course also a prerequisite for any normal investor to invest into so that's how we look at uh scaling climate uh Tech Innovation um in those various ways thank you very much and maybe we just actually stay with you and tag on to that is when you evaluate funds or when you EV evaluate projects where you invest how how do you evaluate or how do you look at what the potential scale is that they can see and also with the question of you also have an
(12:32) infrastructure fund right so the question of new innovation versus scaling the things that are there and I'm really curious how you are thinking about that well the truth is uh we need all of it right we need Innovations we need to scale up existing uh Technologies we need it both and um and that's why um we at Carbon Equity have decided to go for this super Diversified strategy so on the one hand we have an infra infrastructure F funds where we allow our individual customers to invest in infrastructure so scaling up existing
(13:06) Technologies be It Solar uh be it wind etc etc why is that important because we know those Technologies work and today they reduce carbon emissions so we need it so in terms of the time value of carbon it's a very important intervention yet we also believe that uh Innovations are also important Innovations are for us not only uh to be clear moonshots so if I look at our portfolio only about 5% of our overall Diversified portfolio is really in those moonshots like nuclear fusion for example but we do see that we do need to
(13:42) also allocate Capital to those moonshots uh the majority of our portfolio is in technologies that are in commercialization so with um positive gross margins that you know are um building their first larger commercialization not their first but their commercial ization larger uh um uh factories production units um and the second part in um in earlier Innovation that's where we have the bulk of our portfolio and let me also say one more thing I think we need to be somewhat selective because indeed in The Innovation space we can't do it we also
(14:17) can't do it all so we try and really find the best funds that also have a very clear focus on um and E the of change why they invest in the areas that they're investing into because let's say investing in too many things and in let's say if we would be investing in 20 different nuclear fishing uh approaches we're also not going to get to the solution because we're just going to have like this speckled uh distribution of capital E everywhere rather than let's say U aligning on let's say three or four key approaches to tackle that
(14:49) technology so I think that's also something that we need to keep in mind if we're talking about Innovation not to spread ourselves too um too thin but to actually try and find a couple of those big beds thank you how is that for you Chad like you see a lot of different companies projects funds that you advise how do they look or how do you support them in selecting what actually can scale and also there the question versus the what exists today can be scal it enough it might not be enough but and how do weave The Innovation part in that
(15:22) yeah I mean it's a good question I mean obviously you know uh in 2017 we published a book called Draw down the most comprehensive plan ever proposed reverse global warming we listed a bunch of Technologies and practices there and what we saw in previously in terms of investment Into Climate Tech we saw a very very small amount you know pretty stable linear you know year after year kind of grow a little bit when we published that book you saw a a a a massive scale in investment you started to see growth in investment from our
(15:52) book but also many other Frameworks that were released subsequent to that now why is that important because just understanding that these Technologies and practic exist today allow us to unlock the investment to implement them right and we get caught up in trying to innovate for the next thing something new and I think we do need this news but we need to be innovating those technologies that already exist today we need to make solar more resource productive more efficient more effective using less materials to produce the same
(16:23) amount of generation we need to think across you know our electric vehicles our batteries things that already exist we know work today how do we innovate the hell out of those Technologies and this is what we try to work with our uh our clients on is how do we measure and map the potential for Innovations to to Within These existing suits we already know work to be more effective more productive and I don't think that's in the discussion enough we want to see the next big thing whether it's a moonshot or it's a new technology or this but how
(16:54) do we innovate what we already know works and direct a lot of that funding there and I think that's where we're going to see even more scale because we need to see those you know renewable energy we have a very short amount of time in our car in our carbon budget a very short amount of time to change things we have to change things dramatically we don't have time to waste on what's the next thing we have to be thinking about how do we make what we already have no work be more effective and so this is what we do at regen int
(17:20) and but we did a draw down but with regen inel the other thing is stop talking about climate Tech right that's sounds really it's really say right what do I mean by this because it's a niche right we talk about climate dech climate take and it it is a political you know uh becoming more and more politicized and we're seeing it start to taper off this is why we talk about the Cascade of benefits let's use other words for it because these are the same sets of solutions that help us solve the climate crisis yes but they
(17:53) also help us solve the poverty crisis the biodiversity crisis the the the Human Health crisis the air pollution crisis so whatever lens that you want to approach this we can be using the same sets of Technologies as systems to achieve our outcomes by using different words that matter to different audiences I spoke this all this last year the United Nations asked me to go and speak to uh uh UNICEF about the refugees how do we take the the how do we find the same set of solution to the refugee crisis and to Children's Health outcomes
(18:23) in the future it's the same set of solutions as our climate Solutions so how do we scale we use the same sets of solutions and exist and innovate the hell out of them and use different framings come in there because like this is also one of those things that I'm really seeing here in Davos that the debate is Shifting right we're now in the new golden era of trump um and I actually think the things that you are just saying we need to use different language I fully agree but the language that I would start using is less this
(18:53) crisis that crisis because that still uh you know appeals to our Humanity of to Sol a that's not how let's say the Zeitgeist is these days in my eyes I'm feeling that the Zeitgeist is now to talk about self-interest yeah and and I don't even mean just living on the planet I actually mean we need to talk about energy Independence our geopolitical needs that's the language that currently in the Zeitgeist is being understood so yesterday evening I was speaking at a dinner and it wasn't called climate this climate that it was again called
(19:26) transition Finance right so I think it's actually we need to talk about those things that are more geopolitical that fit into the the trumpy and zit guys and only then we will ensure that we'll have that survival of the greenest hopefully rather than just the survival of the fittest yeah thank you for that maybe if I sorry don't want to crash the panel but 100% agree with that because uh in the end climate change and climate Tech is a business for 8 billion people right so we need to bring it into the masses
(19:55) that this is a business model that is actually very attractive you know in Germany I always uh get feedback from governments and they ask me Hing you need what is your plan how much subsidies you need I said nothing yeah let's talk about it let's talk about it openly it's a business model that works so let's find it and bring it into the societies that make people understand it is not additional money we spend we are actually saving money and saving the planet as you already as you already uh picked up the mic actually I wanted to
(20:24) pose a question to the two of you dinal and Henning specifically as we're in this transition as like there's national interests are are rising and as we're sailing past one and a half degrees already much sooner than we planned um how do you see Supply chains changing how do you see Supply chains have to change like on the agriculture side but also for you in in Nal how do you produce how do you Source how do you deploy would love to hear a little bit about that yeah um before a little kind of bit of a continuation from from the
(20:57) previous discussion we'll we'll FL into I already I promise that's what you wanted right an actual discussion so I mean I grew up in India uh moved to Canada when I was 13 then moved to the US and now I live in London uh and I've spent my past the P majority of my career um selling to Global South businesses or solving problems for Global South businesses and it's a very different mindset um these businesses are not represented at events like this like you know you have to look very very hard to see a large agricultural
(21:31) producer being here although I met one this morning it was sort of a a weird coincidence but the reality of these producers is very very different and this like notion of you know doing something for the climate or doing something for the environment is a very Western notion of thinking about this crisis it's for them it's really about how do we um get an opportunity to grow and how do we get an opportunity to to compete more effectively so I'll just put you in the mindset of my customer these are you know Agri businesses that
(22:06) run you know maybe a few thousand to a few hundred thousand hectares of plantations and and uh Farms to produce maybe 10 15 of these kind of major Commodities um over the past years every single one of these Commodities most of them uh there are a few exceptions but every single one of them have been over supplied in the market the price Spikes have not been because because um because the producers are making more money it's because there has been climate shocks that have limited Supply but in general every single commodity is over supplied
(22:38) so now you're competing in a in a business that has over Supply you are a price taker because when you produce palm oil you're going to sell into a blackbox commodity Market you're not able to set the price and you have to take whatever is given to you um you now have governments and your buyers you know telling you you have to comply with UDR you have to comply with csrd you have to you know you have to do all these things and then you have your Banks telling you hey what are your emissions you know we're going to you
(23:13) know you're going to lose this relationship if you don't you know do this and so they're sort of like they're so and by the way they have they are already dealing with climate shocks like we have customers that have been dealing with landslides and forest fires and you know all these things that have been applying that that have been kind of um uh decimating their production and so you know with that mindset if you go to them and say you know do this because it's the right thing for the world it's absolutely not going to fly so what you
(23:42) have to go to them with is here's what you are already doing to counter all this but in you doing that there is a business opportunity for you in an extra Revenue stream or access to cheaper capital or longer term contract from your buyers or just a different you know a differentiation in your product um and so these these producers you know like our sale to them has never been about you know decarbonize your that's what we tell their buyers they're definitely decarbonizing their supply chain but for these producers is really about making
(24:19) an incremental sort of you know Revenue stream or or creating a bigger opportunity so the this this talk of you know that we need to shift the conversation I think I think it's a very vestern sort of mindset and it's it's already sort of it just would it never would have worked in the global South anyways um but even more so now um coming back to your question on you know what so what you know how do these Supply chains change um I think the first step is transparency uh you know there's no way around it every single
(24:53) commodity producer in the world is going that is going to be a global player um is going to be need be is going to need to be transparent in in terms of what they're doing how they're doing it um and you know if there are any negative or positive impacts in in what they're doing um and I think once we get to that first step then there are you know Pathways in which these things can then have a path to remove uh carbon increase biodiversity increase water yields all these things can start coming after you sort of measure and be transparent about
(25:29) um about this um just one real example you know lack of transparency uh sort of hit home for me with when working with our last client um if you look at any sort of emissions factors for you know meat or uh uh per 100 grams of protein one of the worst offenders is or seems to be shrimp um if you look at kind of beef lamb and then shrimp comes Farm shrimp comes next um and these Global averages basically say oh well you know shrimp if you get 100 grams of protein from that shrimp the um average emissions of that is 18.1
(26:10) or 18.6 uh kilogram of CO2 equivalent um we work with a a large producer in in Honduras and they're doing all the right things they you know all of their Farms are deforestation free they're sourcing uh sustainable feed they have solar panels on their rooftop and so when we applied our solution we actually were we were even shocked that their footprint is not 18 it's actually three and three is actually even lower than the average footprint for an egg for 100 grams of egg uh or protein from an egg and you know when they sort of have this way of
(26:48) communicating with their clients with their buyers to say actually you know what you're reporting in your scope 3 footprint is a gross exaggeration because we're actually a lot better than you know the average shrimp producer it then makes a ton of business sense for them and that's how these Supply chains change is through that level of transparency you're going to have Market pressures and just you know pure supply and demand that's going to go into more transparent and better ways to do business because they just look better
(27:18) and they are cheaper and more efficient and sort of um less risky thanks um yeah double clicking on this I mean npal supply chain um changed a lot in the past 5 years um I lived in China the past 12 years I'm still living in shenen um so we are very close to our partners um the npal supply chain runs U basically fully integrated we are co-developing Hardware software Solutions with Partners um and then going into the industrialization phase and in the end we are looking at this uh from the geopolitical perspective
(27:55) today the majority of renewable energy components come from China so if we go through a solar module silicon poly silicon Ingot waiver cells module in the end the value chain is 98% China now be diversifying with the inflation reduction R in the US and we have the production link incentive in India um southeast Asia is picking up but it still is like this so for for me right now is the pressing question with Trump being back and Trump 2.
(28:24) 0 is taking off as we have seen all on Monday and yesterday and it's proceeding um um what does it actually mean for us as for me as a European um for our company as a European company with a European Home Market um our tariffs in the uh on the uprise uh are we as Europeans moving closer to China um we are somewhere in between um you know in German we have a nice word we are not meat and not fish so we are undecisive right now and we are trying to be be everybody's darling but with a very I would say um indecisive government on on on German
(29:03) level right now speaking as a German but also on European level um and I think this is what what what keeps us very busy so we are running what we call a China plus X strategy we are diversifying into Vietnam into Indonesia into India um but I think the global um the globalization that we all enjoyed in the past 30 years um was one of the key success factors for for Europe was basically three factors in the past 30 years it was cheap energy uh through Russian gas it was cheap labor through China and it was cheap protection
(29:36) through through the us all those three things are changing right now so we need to reinvent ourselves and that means we need to reinvent our supply chain and I think we need to reinvest into local for local production even though from my perspective this will cost a lot of money and it will slow us down in fighting climate change and if we're being honest we have a CO2 budget right now that is exhausted in seven years so means 1.
(30:06) 5 degrees it's gone let's see uh how much harm we can still avoid but the target is gone um and whenever we are talking about right now relocation of production capacities massive investment first of all it means we are slowing down the transition and in China right now we have on the PV module side um we have a production capacity right now end of last year was like 900 G GS we have a um a demand Global of 400 this year probably 450 gaw so actually we have double the production capacity already but due to geopolitical conflicts and world power shifts we are
(30:42) not uh utilizing it actually and being being a one world to fight this because we are created this as one world through globalization to be honest um but instead of right now we are discussing of Reinventing Supply chains that's cost trillion of dollars and uh that is frustrating um to me being honest um so we are trying to try to find to navigate this as efficient as possible with an endtoend um approach from co- develop products until it hits the customer doorstep um but it's going to be an interesting year I
(31:16) think thank you both and maybe going back to you zasa um how you mentioned the politization of climate and I'm also wondering how you see public versus private money playing playing a role or public versus private interventions in the funds that you're looking at and how you are approaching the next coming years yeah um well I fully Echo what what uh Henning just said um a second ago about uh us not acting as one World um and I also Echo the point that we need to make climate Solutions um completely competitive
(31:59) in some areas that's just still not the case and therefore um I do think that governmental interventions in the broadest sense can be extremely helpful I mean one example of one of the the companies that is in one of the portfolios of one of our portfolio companies is Infinium uh they're um an incredibly successful company that among other things produces uh sustainable aviation fuel and that's one of those sectors that just still has a massive green premium um and there uh without any governmental uh let's say guidance that area could
(32:34) not be successful uh yet yet obviously we know that Aviation is whatever about 2% of our Global CO2 emissions and it's not so easy to fly electric um at this stage for obvious reasons we don't want the battery to go out so um this company for example was successful because the uh they got a massive off-take agreement from from British Airways because the British government um was has now committed to I believe it's 10% of um saaf has to go into the kerosine by 2030 and has given a very very clear guidance that this is the way it is and so they
(33:09) were able to also raise like more than half a billion dollars off of that agreement which allows them to scale so this is where I think one way of sort of like regulation guidance can be relevant the second element is well in Europe we do see uh we need also Public Funding to go to back uh uh the Venture Capital funds um uh and we see too little of that of course we've seen that the European investment fund has been much more active and is basically backing pretty much every climate Tech fund it feels um but we
(33:41) still need to do more and I think Pension funds I already alluded to that earlier it's ridiculous that European and I was sitting next to a pension fund yesterday evening I won't mention the name and I was saying why are you not investing in European Venture Capital this is a this is a Europe European pension fund and they say well you know the track records of the American VCS is just so much better and I'm like okay but like you should I mean they are and I'm not I'm not saying they aren't and I we should all as a diversified investor
(34:12) also invest in the US I don't want to say that but if I am a government person or if I if I uh let's say represent the money of people uh living and working in Europe you would think that there's also an interest of those people to invest in the decarbonization of this continent which is also going to be the USP of this continent and if not we are just going to de-industrialized and we're going to be whatever a luxury goods provider and a tourist destination which is not going to give us the same kind of uh level of of of wealth that we want
(34:44) and also not the leadership that the world actually needs from Europe right now because there is a certain value set that we have here that we need to continue to uphold so I see in other words I do think that in certain categories uh like governmental inter wrenches are relevant both let's say on the um regulatory side as well as on the capital side um I will say one maybe controversial thing uh in Europe we've obviously been pushing very much also the csrd this is more on the corporate side rather than on the CL for the
(35:14) climate Tech startups and this is something that I think is very important yet Perhaps here and there we've um gone a little too far in terms of the alphabet soup and and thousands of kpis that companies have to report on and we actually need to focus on the essential topics and for me climate and climate related kpis are very essential and we need to make sure that they stay front and center in the csrd because I know it's being reviewed as we speak maybe do if I add one more sentus what what we wish really from government is Clarity
(35:44) yeah you know we as nire we are deploying heat pumps right now in Germany there's a massive subsidization program going on 75% of the total cost you will actually get a subsidies from the German government the issue is whenever uh the government is changing or there are um different forces pulling um how to plan in this Clarity how to make business models how to innovate products in three four five years uh time period And I think this is what we wish really for um it's a global problem we need we need globalized Clarity for
(36:16) businesses to invest for funds to invest for allocate capital and and Human Resources thank you I want to I want to go back to Chad for a moment um also mentioned some of the metrics like getting back down to the fundamentals obviously the 1 and a half degree Target was something for uh 20 2 2100 I can't even say the number so far away um and yet we're racing past this right now and I wonder from your perspective also working on draw down and all the Frameworks that you work with what are actually metrics that we
(36:52) as a climate Tech or innovation Community should pay attention to also in the short term because such a far out Target it's just really far away and hard to grasp like what what can we measure ourselves against um as we as we go over the next first the Trump 2.0 and then beyond that well I mean it's a good question and I I think you know you know it's not that far away a number we experienced it this year we've already last year we've already passed 1.
(37:20) 5 degree but what that means and I think it's really important to note uh because of course in the media and how we communicate things in the language we use where we're assuming that that 1.5 we passed it we blown past it we're not going to be able to achieve our 2100 Target but the reality is is if you are a scientist and you dive into the ipcc reports you'll actually understand that most models for over a decade have already shown that overo we already knew that we were going to go past 1.
(37:46) 5 degree we already knew we were going to go past two degrees and almost all of those models that the IPC most of them I say about 80% and we actually have a uh a atmospheric physicist in the room here as well who can probably correct me um but I say about 80 80% of them already show an overshoe and did well before we published draw down so the concept of draw the concept of global cooling already existed and it was built into the scientific Community from day one but yall probably didn't know that how many people knew that I only know
(38:16) because you told me last week I told you last week right so so so so what I mean by this is though it feels like a far-off number and it is a far off number we're experiencing it last year we we breach that and what that means is that it's happening faster than we thought a hell of a lot faster than we thought and that's where it becomes that level of urgency so I think we the metrics we have to we have to measure is how fast we are actually implementing the technologies that have a direct physical uh uh response physical impact
(38:50) on the atmosphere period because if it doesn't have a direct physical impact on the atmosphere we're wasting time and every every 01 degree and even we've assessed with the Trump there have been assessments of the new Trump policies and pushing out uh pulling back uh uh some of the the the policies from the Biden Administration theyve estimated 0 z0 point 04 degrees higher from just us and someone a reporter asked me yesterday does that matter it matters it doesn't seem like it matters but it matters so every point
(39:28) measure yourself against every estimated 0.1 degree higher that's what we should be measuring your Investments on because if you don't if you were not investing in direct directly in the physical realities of our natural environment if we're not that's not the main measure of this then we are in a crisis and I'm sorry to say we are in a crisis but if we shift that into an opportunity this is what I was going to go with in terms of language yes we are in we have to sit with the reality that we are in a crisis
(39:59) it's urgent we approached the 1.5 we're going to quickly we're going to reach that two degrees faster than again the IPC scientist already predicted we were going to reach and have to go to overshoot we have to move farther faster than ever before it's a crisis it's right in front of us but let's switch the narrative and talk about the many opportunities that are available the opportunities no matter what space we're operating in so I'm not saying I mean this space obviously you should keep talking about climate Tech and I'm still
(40:27) going to work with climate Tech investors and so on but when we're seeing the opportunities in different spaces we can we can really uh measure how we're having an impact based on the physical realities of how these Technologies and prcts are actually operating in the world right and I think we talk a lot about Innovations and digitalization and and the latest you know Ai and stuff but we have to figure out how to uh invest in those real and we actually have a a hardware guy right here look Sebastian um and we have to be investing
(41:01) in real technologies that have that physical reality and we're not we're not F we're not investing them fast enough not even near fast enough so yeah keep doing we should that's the number one metric yeah that's for hening come you can jump in thanks Chad we only have five minutes left so I leave it up to Philip he actually let's um let's take the last five minutes just from each of you I wonder what is one thing that you think is not talked about enough like we talked about a lot of things that you're working on like the one and a half
(41:32) degree overshoot for example is something I learned and I would just love to close with like what what is one thing that maybe this audience or maybe somebody's looking at the recording at a later point that they should take that you think this is not vocalized enough or this is not in people's minds enough you want to start I want to start then we go and we end not vocalized enough even though some of us have been saying it for a very long time is there's an 80 to 100 trillion doll investment or sorry trillion dollar
(42:03) return on investment in the system of solutions that solves the climate crisis and guess what it's the same system of solution that solves the biodiversity crisis and all the crises the poly crises that we are living in today right 80 to1 trillion dollar return on investment over a 30-year period using conservative Financial estimations we're not even incorporating risk not talked about enough in the investment space it's a win win win win it's I call it the duh Factor we should be investing in it because it makes
(42:36) Financial sense E I don't even really I'm not a profit guy I'm not a profit Maxim you probably know that probably got a sense of that but if you are this should be a system you invest in because you will make a return on investment and you'll be thriving be future proofing your portfolio for 30 40 50 100 years into the future it just makes sense thank you um very much Echo that in fact I was going to make the point the one thing not talked about is the role of capital markets in this and if if you had the right kpis against your
(43:12) Investments your fixed income your Equity Investments you know what is it actually doing to the world and what are the externalities and the costs that are sort of built into those Investments if those came out you know in the location phase uh then this would be a very very clear solution and you know fixed income markets can move really you know they can really drive a lot of impact here I mean our customers worry less about their shareholder price uh their their um Equity value they they care a lot about their banking relationships and
(43:50) their loans uh and if the equ if the bond markets uh decide that these are the the metrics that they want to care about and the risk factors that they want to care about I think this becomes a very very easy transition and that's not talked about enough thank you from my point of view as I mentioned already it's a global issue um and I think the people in this room obviously are in climate attack and we are in in some sort of a silo we believe uh everybody probably has the knowledge and uh the discussion that we are having
(44:24) that's not the case so I am for me it's really important that the majority of this world understands that we have a climate crisis and that the climate Tech we can deploy is a business model that actually creates value for the world and it's not something to seen as a burden and I think that is what we as a as a society it's very easy to complain about governments it's not a solution but us as Leaders I think this is my wish uh for today uh let's draw it into the world and then communicate it um and I think talk about this
(45:00) more um well I'll end on a little bit more negative note I mean I I to to to be very honest we're in our bubble and I think everyone in this room we're all convinced we have to invest more in climate Tech and I think we all know that and and so on but I can tell you again I was at a dinner with very very large investors yesterday night and I heard people say again and those are you know rational people oh you know what we're actually starting to invest in fossil fuels again because if I wasn't in fossil fuels the last let's say 2 3
(45:33) years I actually didn't make my uh return Benchmark and so I heard those people making those statements again I also heard people question if we really have the urgency because they were questioning the Tipping points that you were just alluding to that you know that if we're overshooting that we will run into tipping points like water oceans getting much higher and in a much much hotter in a much faster way than we actually thought Etc and if you believe that the Tipping points are not real then you can just say okay we're going
(46:04) to overshoot we're going to be at whatever two three degrees and then at the at 2100 we'll be back down because we're then going to nuclear fusion our way out of it or geoengineer ourselves out of it and to be honest I I I can see that rational logic especially if you don't want to care but for me that is a very high-risk strategy and I don't want to screw around with our planet because we don't actually know if if we can geoengineer or nuclear fusion our way out of it so I think that like that I just just wanted to share that people
(46:34) are starting to doubt or starting to speak more openly in this Trump era about the those um um let's say acceleration moments maybe not being as real as they are and so that brings me back to now the more Optimist note um I think there's a number that's floating around that we need something like 9 trillion a year to invest into the climate transition so that sounds like an insane amount of money but we at Carbon Equity as you know um also get the focus on getting capital from private investors and there are
(47:07) currently 177 trillion in wealth in the hands of mass affluent I don't even talk about high net worth individuals because that's much more so again let me get those numbers we have 177 trillion in the hands of the mass affluence so normal people making salaries Etc that's a massive amount compared to the 9 trillion only that we need every year now over the next uh decade or so to invest into this climate transition how can we just mobilize that Capital we're one of those ways of doing it um and I'll add you one additional
(47:43) thing um there is from the 177 trillion there are 68 trillion now transitioning to the Next Generation so the millennial generation and I think we've all you know complained about the millennial generation left or right how they they don't want to work and stuff like that we've had that discussion but one thing that we can agree on is that this group is more um let's say in tune with climate and that they want to do something with their money that they think that money is more uh than than just a tool for making more money but a
(48:15) tool to actually make some make a difference and so that 68 trillion if we don't believe it's 177 trillion in Mass half fluent hands then maybe we can believe in the 68 trillion um that are in the hands of the uh millennials that will hopefully invest more into the climate transition uh because they be believe uh that that this is something that their money should be doing that's The Optimist note thank you to the four of you for um giving your time and sharing your experience and your wisdom and your optimism and your pessimism and
(48:46) your realism and thank you to all of you for coming for the session and um there will be another session after this so if you want to stay for that you can and if you're not staying let's move out into the hallway so we're not disturbing um the follow on discussion thank you very much thank you [Music]