The State of Climate Investing in 2025

Welcome to the unDavos Summit - A community-organized series of interactive panels, talks, and networking taking place in Davos, Switzerland - and online - in parallel to the World Economic Forum’s Annual Meeting 20-24 Jan 2025.

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• Democratizing Davos: We open the doors to diverse voices and ideas, breaking down traditional barriers to participation.
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In this engaging panel titled "The State of Climate Investing in 2025," we confront critical questions facing the climate investment landscape in 2025. As climate disasters escalate and prior investment trends show a worrying decline, this session aims to highlight the necessity of innovative investment strategies and the potential within new sectors. Join our expert speakers as they share insights on navigating the fundraising environment and the importance of allocating capital to foster sustainable solutions. 

Featured speakers include:

Scott Wharton - CEO of Tandem PV, Scott is a recognized leader in solar technology, with a powerful track record in transforming companies and driving innovation.

Stephan Pouyat - Chairman of Green PowerHouse, Stephan brings over 20 years of expertise in international finance and transformative green energy initiatives.

Derek Brooks - Principal at 2150 VC, Derek specializes in mission-aligned investing, focusing on industrial decarbonization and sustainability.

Fiona Banister - Investor and Catalyst, Fiona is a global sustainability leader, advocating for impactful investments across multiple sectors including climate tech, health, and ESG.

Bryony Cooper - Director of Investor Relations at PT1, Bryony is spotlighted for her work in the startup ecosystem, focusing on investments that drive energy transition and climate resilience.

Don’t miss this chance to gain valuable knowledge from industry pioneers and thought leaders shaping the future of climate investing!

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Transcript

The State of Climate Investing in 2025 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRFE0p6KKcY

Transcript:
(00:01) [Music] and then 2024 it was down 14% year-over a year so it's almost down by half um but we're in a new year of 2025 so I think part of what we're going to start with for the panelists we'll have them introduce themselves and then we'll ask them about the future so why don't I go uh W you start here no problem with pleasure thank you very much for the invitation my name is Stefan puya I'm the chairman of green Powerhouse I actually spent 20 years in a company called uh Euro clear Euro clear is the largest clearing uh platform in the
(00:37) world with uh 40 trillions of asset under custody so the whole challenge is to see you know how much of that money flow into this industry and uh I think the panel will try to address that thank you very much only 40 trillion okay D I think you have passed one all right hi I'm Derek Brooks I'm a principal at 2150 VC 21 50 is a series a climate Tech fund focus on decarbonizing the built environment and Industry so very much focused on physical assets though we also look at software to optimize those assets as well as
(01:15) physically decarbonizing through new materials or Technologies uh we've been around for uh four years uh we're now deploying our second fund and very excited to uh be here thank you all that one figure that out hi um my name is Fiona banister and one aspect of the world is that I have the opportunity to have invested in deep decarbonization for more than 30 years for me and working in also the other side of research and Innovation I have a nonprofit called decarbonized dorg and we have another nonprofit called
(01:58) Partnerships for change .org and so we're research science-based so a big part of the world of deep decarbonization for me we can talk about solar I've co-invested with others into small nuclear we've done solar we've done alternative areas but the care that I care about the care that's the core is forests food sanitation health and water so for the base root of all of that comes what I say from the mud comes the lotus flower we just competed in the xprize rainforest conservation as the semi-finalists with our indigenous
(02:37) co-leaders who were the shamans the doctors the environmental lawyers that structured and built out systems so we can measure and monitor using drones using um environmental DNA but also enabling Ai and Tech to actually be able to measure through what is the value of our universe what is the value of our gut biome and the biome of the Earth and now we're coming back out to do a biodiversity series of credits and then bonds and building out more um economic models around it I was a micro Finance investor and um so I've been an Tech
(03:15) investor for a long time but tech for good that actually is on the ground in the ground in the hands and also that helps people thrive and survive thank you great thank you Fiona hello I'm Bry Cooper um I'm a director at pt1 which is also a venture capital fund and working in a very similar space to Derek actually so we we do a little earlier stage investment so preed and Seed Europe wide um but we're also looking at the built environment so we used to be called prop tech one so our Essence came from Real Estate construction Tech um
(03:45) also some infrastructure but in the last couple of years seeing the the massive growing need we also transitioned into the wider ecosystem around the built environment so that includes energy transition and the niche that we're looking at now is climate adaptation Tech and especially how is the climate crisis impact ing urban areas and and the world that we live in um prior to that I Was a Serial entrepreneur myself so I built a few companies before jumping to the other side of the table um and I'm mentoring women Founders a
(04:12) lot to try and bring up some more voices in this space um but yeah very happy to be here so you can see we have a really diverse panel we have a $40 trillion on the later stage we have earlier and mid-stage VC we have a family office investing um so good perspective my my background uh right now I'm running a deep Tech startup that's building a Next Generation solar panel um so I've been deep in involved in fundraising since I've been doing that which means I'm both very very good at handling rejection um but also I've been
(04:41) successful at raising money and we're just closing around now so I have a lot of experience at talking to most of the most of the VCS on both sides of the pond um so why don't we start out with a a short answer from all of you guys um all right it's down 50% it's a lot what's going to happen in 2025 and when don't we we'll go down the line is it going to go up down flat well this one is dead Okay um as you said I I start with a different perspective because uh Euro clear uh 40 trillions if you where to just move 1% of it uh that would solve
(05:19) the problem so the whole question is why this 1% doesn't move so um I think that 2025 is not going to help because it's going to take a bit more time uh when you look at it um at the level of U this 40 trillions and you ask yourself who have this money you look at it and you understand that it's long-term money so it's a central bank reserve uh wealth funds uh Pension funds State Pension funds and the like so that's really the citizen money the citizen money is actually not moving to support that industry so that's a
(05:52) fundamental problem so yeah you want to ask yourself why the government doesn't take his Lion Share to move this 1% not not even 10% not even 20% You could argue it could be much more but anyway 1% doesn't even move and um one of the fundamentals is that the majority of the ones that would benefit from this decarbonization come from the global South there is absolutely no money flying to the glob sou if you look at it in details experts like these guys here next to me you will see that over the last 5 years they pull out of the global
(06:26) s they didn't put in they put out living a little bit of a space to the the Chinese to be honest you mentioned that in the previous panel uh the Indians as well and all of that that are entering into this space in full speed um but it still small money small tickets so what we are trying to do at green power house is that we're trying to recreate a financial backbone that support this energy transition at scale I mean this this whole industry at scale and that will take a little bit of time okay before we go Derek I just want to make a
(06:58) comment that uh on the glob South so some of the biggest deployers of solar energy last year are actually in the global South so places like Pakistan Bangladesh Nigeria have uh triple digit growth in solar and I I don't know how they're getting it funded per se maybe it's the Chinese I don't know maybe we can come back to that Derek I think this works now excellent um so on the uh question of the reduced uh climate Tech uh deployment that was the right we well more of it's so it's a fact it's it's gone down about 50% so where is it going
(07:29) to keep going down is it going to go back up so I I mean I think there's a couple things of at work right there's some that are structural and there's some that are actually issues if you look at climate Tech investing from The Venture side specifically that are particular to venture one is I actually if you look at where are all the Venture dollars going and it's all being dumped into Ai and data center infrastructure right there's been you know besides the I would say the dir of actually Venture allocations from LPS the few that are
(08:01) you know being made are going to funds that are deployed in that area right this is maybe it's a hype cycle this is or it's the you know Grand Design of the next few years but that's also reality um the other reality is that climate Tech even in 2.0 or 3.0 has not returned Capital back to investors the people that make allocation to venture funds in climate dech have not received any Capital back and we're not thinking that that Pi is growing until capital is being returned they're not going to be allocating that's structural but I think
(08:33) you know I I I'm actually optimistic for 2025 and I put it in this direction um not every climate tech company labels itself as a climate tech company I don't know if that has to do with the current mood in the US particularly around themes of sustainability and ESG but sometimes I find as as a investor I am doing the work to discover that someone is actually doing industrial efficiency play they won't necessarily Market themselves that way and I that might be okay if that is really the trend that's okay because in the end I hate I I hate
(09:09) this jargon but someone used it yesterday and makes sense and you know no more green premium green discount right we should be investing in things that are low operating costs for the consumer or for industrial players today and I'm seeing quite a lot being developed in that space um so I'm optimistic I think the the statement made on the global South is particularly relevant my background before coming to climate Tech VC was in infrastructure and Emerging Markets private Equity uh there is less money being deployed at
(09:40) that later stage that is doing true infrastructure investing particularly in more Frontier markets that are the best places for solar and wind uh that do need to uh increase their grid um I don't know if that's actually the role of Western VCS in some ways what we need to think about is how do you build up local Capital markets and systems to deploy uh where it meets best so that would be okay great Fiona you have many hats but one of them and one on right now but um one of them is on the family office side maybe you could speak
(10:15) particular about uh how are the family office uh institutions how are they thinking about investing in the climate in 2025 first of all I never call it a family office I call it a family forest because I I absolutely believe and have dedicated a tremendous amount of time in my life to being in Jungle with the Amazonian Leaders with the shamans working and learning whether it be the years of my personal life in mosambique or in Asia or working on the HIV crisis I've just been this year in sumba Island working on malaria and food and nutrition and
(10:57) health systems and looking at build building this so where you talk about the Deep decarbonization one of the greatest is our forests our food and our water and so a big pivot in our sort of Global Group of tonic members or family office members that have dedication there's been a radical change a lot of us have assets how do we decarbonize our own personal assets and how do we Inspire and bring forth that community opportun Unity of uplifting especially for the next Generations whether it be my own daughters who one is now in
(11:36) environmental engineering studying that but she's really critically I would say engaged she has been in Panama she's been in environments that are really on the edge of transition where the forests the combination of planting more trees building up nurseries working with the teams of the women and the young women are now trained by Smithsonian to Monitor and measure and mitigate the rarest plants in the world which are also our medicines so I think when we talk about decarbonization we have to really look at the biggest snc in the
(12:13) world which is our actual Earth and so there's every areas in in um investing where we use Blended Capital it's an essential part right now I'm working on mint energy mint energy we're doing for the Zulu Nation down in South Africa it's a 2.2 2.9 billion large infrastructure and the biggest piece in there is that I have to have an arc nuclear reactor to take the waste to energy and from there I'm doing fuels natural fuels I'm doing ingredients that do agriculture we do pesticides that are non-toxic so that was from a board of
(12:51) when I was on solos so then you bring in the other last is the graphine batteries that are going to power your amazing solar because we have to have we don't want to extract from the earth we want to use the Earth's waste to make the next positive part for energy so that's the core okay great briani thank you um I think the the language we use around the whole narrative is going to make uh a lot of impact on how much gets invested actually because if you look in different parts of the world so in Europe a lot of startups will talk about
(13:21) ESG whereas to us investors it's just synonymous with overregulation so that might make them more nervous about investing and as Derek was talking about you know Financial return returns we had a few years ago clean tech uh didn't pay off uh investors Lo lost a lot of money of course that makes nervous so now we've kind of rebranded as climate Tech and we're having a Resurgence and of course technology come along quite a bit in those last few years so we have better opportunities using Technologies like AI to facilitate that um but you
(13:48) know we have to kind of win back the trust of the investors I think um and the other thing is I think from a VC perspective it is important to specialize because climate Tech is a very broad topic and also as you were saying Derek like quite often compan are not marketing themselves as a climate tech company but of course they are having environmental sustainability benefits just from whether it's digitization or automation um yeah so I think yeah it's it's all about kind of how you brand it and how you package it
(14:13) and what language you use of of where we're going to end up investing our dollars without being too nervous so where where are you guys finding that the areas that you're interested in 2025 and maybe the areas that you're not interested um so for us of course we we have the expertise of the built world so even though and forests are super important to us that's not our background or area of expertise so we're focusing on those built areas where we live um so everything to do with infrastructure resilience so that might
(14:39) be Advanced Materials you know how can we actually build from the ground up to be more resilient against the you know uh the climate crisis um and weather events but also looking at how can we use hardware and software together in collaboration um so we have you know we have software that's doing kind of climate risk analysis for companies and on the other hand we've got iot solutions that are doing early risk monitoring um and and early warning systems that is going to be really important um and then also looking at
(15:06) the difference between mitigation it's it's I think something like 95% of the capital invested right now is into mitigation which is super important but we're not doing enough focus on climate adaptation and resilience um and you know for the next looking at the next 20 years and what a mess it's going to be we have to focus on that as well so that's why we're specialing in in adaptation and how can we bolster urban areas where we're living to be more resilient so we were talking about that earlier before we move on I'm just
(15:31) curious can you give some examples about what what does a climate adaptation investment look like yeah so the the one I just mentioned about early risk detection for example so in my previous Fund in Poland we invested in a company called wiox that's working with wind turbines um but they actually have they use sound sensor technology to have a non-invasive um risk monitoring and uh like early detection system which is fantastic because normally if you want to repair or there's some downtime on a winter on you're losing so much money to
(15:58) repair and do m while it's offline um but this actually is a non-invasive solution so I think something like that where it's using a iot it's using AI um and it's increasing the efficiency of renewable energy so that would be one example great Derek you know so uh mean so in terms of our Focus I think I'm not going to talk about this part too much because you covered on the last panel but thinking about grid orchestration flexibility I mean if you looked at corporate power prices in Germany this past year is absolutely insane I don't
(16:30) know how you do business as a German uhme when you don't when you experience these kind of wholesale prices so that's something that we're definitely going to spend more time on and corporate power procurement is part of that as well as flexible storage um on the adaptation point maybe I I hate feeling like I'm jumping on a trend but we're doing a big deep push in this space we have accidentally invested in adaptation uh we have two companies i' like to point to particularly one is nature metrics which is a biodiversity monitoring
(17:04) software right it start you have to really start with the measurement and how do we know where to put our efforts around the uh the nature economy unless we actually know what species are there and how they change over time and the other and this is the one that I think is going to be the biggest for my portfolio in the global South is a dehumidification technology we're going to be experiencing especially or the majority of the it lives increase weather systems uh increased heat Cooling in other places uh which is
(17:36) going to put a lot of pressure on the grid when it comes to putting in air conditioning and if our air conditioning is not reduced in terms of energy consumptions by 90% um we have we have another problem right to where humans live um and that is that's going to be a global South issue so we've we've started this journey um we're looking also into um you know parametric modeling we're looking into Insurance schemes what we've struggled into is what is investable now because who's going to pay um for physical
(18:09) infrastructure um at this moment just one follow up on that so you mentioned a lot of software things and but one of the observations I think I've made with with investors and Venture capitalists is that uh they tend to want to invest in software but uh climate change is actually an earth science problem right so you need physical things how do how do you uh how do you think about that in terms of the disconnect between VCS who want climate VCS who want invest in software but that's not how you solve climate change for the most part my
(18:37) dehumidification company is clearly a hardware company come on fantastic come on man but right I mean look I'm not picking on you per se I'm just talking more about this group the overall sector look I mean I mean software only exists as an asset class because we have Legacy Hardware to work it with right and if we think of that there are Innovations across robotics um across chemistry of course I mean it starts with uh the physical world and we think of some of the most valuable companies actually right now right think about like I mean
(19:08) I hate to say it but think about SpaceX and Tesla right those are Hardware I mean they are software fied Hardware companies in the end right it's the iPhone right you know all the software applications in the mobile space was only enabled because of something like the iPhone developing so we do have to spend a lot of time with it and then dare I say now we have to talk about something called first of aind right folk how do we fund these initial manufacturing when it's all going to be loss making it's not a it's not a
(19:33) traditional VC area to think that you know you should sell a product at like negative margin for the first five years this is a very difficult mental shift uh we do focus a lot on Hardware um but we have to be very careful we look for where are the off-takers where's the non-dilutive financing coming from um until like two days ago right grants in the US were particularly helpful in getting these off the ground um but yeah I mean but you need a balance right we all we do have a responsibility to return Capital to LPS um so can I
(20:08) jump okay yeah maybe it's a little bit of a uh thought provoking uh feedback I personally I I told you I spent 20 years at the heart of the Capital Market um I don't think that uh to all due respect for the VCS and everything that they've done and it's fantastic but as as you rightly said they kind of follow the money all right and there is a huge amount of money to be made on the software related side of uh the uh climate change because a lot of people are very interested by that and it's easy return but the true fundamentals as
(20:46) you said uh have to be able to support a 12 to 15 years Capital intensive yeah investment no way that the VC industry can be part of it I mean a tiny part of it but they they can just tag along they can't basically lead that path that's why this decarbonization over the last 10 years is not really picking up okay so you talked about Pakistan you talked about those things if you look at the fundamental uh deal equation these are intergovernmental deals has nothing to do with uh normal money if I may say it's called uh you know concessions
(21:28) agreements so over 99 years and all of these things that's why we are working with the uh inter American Development Bank and the ifcn and all of that to to put in place this infrastructure backbone only government related institutions of that scale can put one to two to 10 billion 100 billions of investment to actually put in place the infrastructure that is required and the global sou has to look at this um climate impact uh with a wireless mentality yeah un no chance that they will be able to actually uh you know put in place the
(22:08) necessary infrastructure so even the you know the green energy deals the the solar panel and I know you are in this field but nonetheless you know you can't transport it if you don't have infrastructure and that's the whole challenge of those deals that collapsed a huge amount of deals collapsed because people thought only about the green energy project rather than the whole ecosystem yeah unfortunately I agree with you and I was just an anecdote I was about a year ago was at San Francisco climate week and there was
(22:37) another panel like this with uh four VCS climate VCS and they were asked the question kind of about software and climate they said well if you have to choose between your your LPS getting a return or having being good for the climate what would you choose they like one of them said let me tell you a little secret rlps don't give a about the climate they just want to make money and then all them said yeah that is it's a trade-off well there's some of us that are in it for the long run so let's keep it on the positive basis I
(23:08) mean I talk about my nonprofit but I am also with uh two different VC non-vc private Equity large scale we do infrastructural Finance building up systems with governments with people I don't need to think about food security I get to go in work in Zambia I get to go and say these are systems that can help finance and yes we have solar but I have a lot more interest to be able to scale things so right now part of SK Capital Associates which is a multif family office we have the capacity not only have we got some of the top
(23:49) investment bankers and mitigation lawyers that have been in their environmental social justice type background because that's my passion and then I've got other family offices that are involved we can scale in the billions now we can't go as far as you go but we're way out of the VC we've never looked at a VC c cap table saying we're going to return you something in seven to 10 years when we talk about deep deep carbonization it's a long run and it's for everybody and for all our children so three quick techniques that
(24:21) I use is when you think about investing what is it that you personally because everybody can invest whether be choosing how you got here today why we're all in Davos where we take it forwards but the second side of investing is how do you term your longevity that of the impact of it we've been Forest investors so there's a portfolio Forest we have even generational Forest we have a 50-year note we have a 100-year note yes I can sell it to Shell Chevron who have to write it off but you know that's one area then we have deep decarbonization
(24:57) just in our Ive data centers and that's really important because 80% reduction with immersion 4 of the cost the energy the price and then it's like green Lego we can build it out and send it off and then smart nuclear so we have to come with a combined direction for that thank you I was just going to ask you would you call the like a a farest uh invest is that investment or philanthropy or both absolutely investment this is what is the core of our values and it isn't carbon we're doing biodiversity we do regenerative full models we buy back
(25:32) from the meat production industry in Panama we get the cow pasture land that has been destroyed we regenerate it we rebuild it we built coffee food food security for the communities they are trained up or they teach us let's get back to the reality they teach us what they need how they want to survive what foods the asai berry that was being stolen by a American company put on public they even tried to patent it and it's like no it's not theirs so I love to I'm a bit of an activist you can hear that but I'm a reactiv where we put our
(26:08) money into places where we can cultivate strong models that bring really long-term returns so that's about when we said I said there's three parts of your choice as an investor because I think all of us are when I asked yesterday on a panel on food security um also and who was also an investor in the room two or three people put their hand up and I was like no no no no you're all an investor whether it be what you do what you eat how you involve yourself but who's managing your money which banks have you given it to you know are
(26:42) you investing or divesting and making choices where you're directing your Finance because we have all the power and why do the larger entities or why do we give it away I'm asking everybody to plant a tree but really plant a tree and also in your gut biome in your health and nutrition because if we don't stand in that area then how can we actually think we're living longer or decarbonizing the earth the earth is here it's ours to protect great thank you and uh briani I and by the way I noticed that briani and her firm pt1 a
(27:15) sponsor so thanks for that yes we are you're welcome okay so um got to give you that plug right thank you so um we're in Dava so obviously we're talking about money but also it's finance and politics how how are you seeing from a investment perspective the current political environment uh not just in the US but around the world changing your outcome on investing a lot um yeah so I think a lot of VCS pt1 included historically have tried to remain fairly neutral to the outside world you know whatever our stances internally we don't
(27:45) really publicize that because it's a separate topic but those days are over I think the the time is is passed when we can keep silent about this so we've actually stepped up to take a very active role I mean we've got the German elections coming up ahead of us of course we had Trump inaugurated just a couple of days go and that has a massive impact on a lot of companies and startups that are working in the climate space have been very dependent on subsidies and on public money and those resources may very well dry up so now
(28:09) it's so important if they're fundraising that they're going to actually have a financially sustainable business model you know pretty early on because they can't depend on on those subsidies anymore um what we're doing internally is we're actually trying to provide a bit of a voice for the local ecosystem so we're running a series of political events within our event space at pt1 in Berlin um where we're inviting the leader of each of the leading Democratic parties there's a couple we didn't invite um uh that we didn't want to give a
(28:37) platform to but giving them a chance to actually have a a discourse with VCS with um serial entrepreneurs um and with companies in Berlin to ask them what are you planning to do about climate about Innovation and about entrepreneurship so that we actually have a very clear stance from the horses mouth on their policies so that we can make a more informed Choice great Derek what's what are you saying so we did an exercise with all of our portfolio companies um especially the ones in the uh us to really clearly lay
(29:06) out where all po potential policy changes could impact them both policy and then also what sort of tax credits subsidies or other benefits they may be getting and of course I I you know we can't deny it right um there you know me you know companies are at risk what we are happy with um is that for the most part uh they're fairly insulated so any grant money that they were thinking of receiving tax credits were distributed uh in the last 10 days actually there was a quick uh quick um action on behalf of you know the bureaucracy in the US to
(29:43) to get that out um but for the most part you know and this is a limitation of being a VC you know we've been very cautious to not invest in anything that right is not providing you know a cheaper operating expense to whoever their client is so maybe some of our companies re Rebrand to uh uh industrial efficiency I I don't know what they do but in terms of that but I think we're fairly isolated but there are some certain industries that I think are going to be more impacted I think um when we think about carbon removals
(30:16) right I mean there is the voluntary Market how do we really create a market without regulation um biodiversity is another one where we haven't really been able to price it on a massive level we've been able to do it on certain scale where you're able to get through regenerative uh agriculture better yields but still I mean that's something that the market hasn't developed and governments play a role um and then we're nervous for Europe I think you know there are some great regulations in place but I think those will Whittle
(30:47) down even with time I think the general mood is moving that way I haven't heard the word great regulations in a while for an investor but they create markets right you don't want them to last forever but regulations can create markets see I was also going to you can comment up but I was going to ask you um so if I think about the world CL the word cloud for this week um AI Trump um and climate um the one that I I'm surprised not have talked about at all is China because has a huge impact on the world obviously and uh you know
(31:15) bringing it back to investing and uh I think one of the things that's interesting is you talk about not wanting to invest in things that are subsidized but China is clearly targeting certain industries and subsidizing them to the point where you could I was going to ask you um what do you think about investing in a in a market where China is going after it because you could say all right they're they're not playing fairly maybe I want to stay away from it or on the other hand there are governments who are trying to balance that out with
(31:41) protecting their industry so how do you how do you feel as an investor about uh investing in Industry where China has said we want to be the leader well I I think uh a bit what funa said earlier I think that we all live in one planet so the first that do good I'm with him I really don't care it's not a political game it's really a a survival game a species Survival game uh one of the thing that you know I foresee in the next uh 20 to 30 years it's going to take time 30 years maybe 50 years I may be wrong by 20 years as
(32:15) big as it is but I I really believe that uh the green hydrogen which brings automatically clean water is going to help a significant amount of people in this planet you know uh being of the century the past Century we were less than two billion now we are 7 billion almost 8 billion we're going to go all the way to 11 I mean this is a significant massive problem and everybody talks a little bit about you know VC and R returns and two to three years return five years returns there's no way there's no way this is
(32:49) much more fundamental problem so how do we protect our next Generation kit how do we make sure that we have sustainable thing and I'm I'm not a guru of of hydrogen I care less actually but I believe that this energy has the power force that is much bigger much more powerful than than the fossile one to send people in in in the sky if they wish but uh it's not going to be done by batteries power it's not going to be done by solar panel neither so there is room for everything but really if we want to C for that we need sustainable
(33:25) energy that creat sustainable ecosystems that create clean water that create simple agriculture you know things that are very basic what F was saying earlier so this is this is my focus right I want these these these big guys these 40 trillion um people to understand the fundamentals and to think about 30 to 50 years down the road and what do we do together yeah so maybe for the rest of you more on the early stage how do you think about investing in an area where China is targeting cuz the balance is there may be some governments that are
(33:54) trying to protect their Industries um and maybe that will help them be successful but um I think Ranna you said you don't want to invest in something that necessarily has only regulatory protection but that in some cases that may be the only way to survive in this geopolitical world yeah I I think it's no secret that from a Global Perspective Europe is not the most trendy market right now um we're we're pretty behind in terms of bringing you know microchip production in house so that we don't have to rely on China
(34:23) um we're still pretty behind there so you know we can only kind of work within the framework that we have at the moment uh and try to push for change but yeah right now we're still pretty dependent on them okay where's China for me I lived over there so there's a side of um deep respect of ancient wisdom there I do also have to compete with them in Africa where they can come in on the solar side or wanting to bring in industrial for Waste Management or where I've got immersion 4.
(34:54) org and immersion 4.com where we do the lowest cost data centers because we have to be energy efficient or when we go into deep decarbonizing shipping we haven't none of us have talked on shipping but I have invested in a collaborative effort with several of the top scientists in the world to not only decarbonize shipping because that also is sorry it's very much controlled by a lot of the Chinese communities Andor those out in the sea meaning there's no regulation so it's been the most interesting side for my personal development I mean I couldn't
(35:29) believe that we still have so many Pirates and I'm talking Pirates of energy Pirates of money traffic talking about Johnny de yep I tell you that all the way because for I spent a lot of time up in boat building up in Bergen and then I looked at different areas I've got the team that's Parker Maritime Technologies um William Parker III Dr Parker worked also for the US Navy he's built out technology with his AI systems with his adaptation for shipping that actually can decarbonize shipping 4% of the world's carbon is in shipping it
(36:05) will be double and triple because we're wanting to move all the solar all the technology we want it's heavy it has to be moved around the world we're commodity driven now so one thing about um this Parker Maritime Technologies is the reason that some of our family offices and communities have invested in it for me it actually lowered the Sonic sound that was killing the whales just to be able to do a a retrofit for between 1 to 3 million on every ship 286,000 ships that are moving right now across the globe to be able to not only lower the
(36:42) use of the fossil fuels by reducing the drag in the ship itself and then it will move to hydrogen it will move to Smart nuclear but it's not there yet but it also helps to save the ocean and we learn from the technology that's developed around it so there's certain things when we talk about Commodities when you were asking in a sense um for the Chinese but we are dependent on them so I I have to find ways to communicate with them to empower them to participate in decarbonizing the planet as well okay great Derek if you want to add something
(37:20) there and then I'm gonna last question because I think we're out of time I'll go around the panel for 30 seconds um what advice would you give to entrepreneur rurs who are raising money in this climate but you you did you want to jump on that on on the China topic um I only pay attention to it as much as the world pays attention to it right so if if we think that there's regulatory um changes we think there's going to be tariffs that's something we always have to consider but I also look at um basically I mean if you look at
(37:47) German Solar a bunch of these solar installers just were like wiped out because they had a right right off their entire inventory because of the change in price the price coming down too fast right so those are also risks you have to look at and I don't think it's necessarily A China PR and we shouldn't make this like some sort of culture War um at all because it's not but they are right a large economy right that does subsidize a lot of their own Industries but you have to take a look um yeah I me I'm not bringing it up as a culture War
(38:13) so much as they an enormous player yeah ex we don't care about Zimbabwe yeah subsidizing things and then they they tend to just play by different rules you could argue that maybe our rules are Antiquated we're playing the wrong game but I think the Western countries Europe and the us we assume that companies want to make a profit yeah right and it's hard to invest in an area where a company will sell below cost very very true um and then I'm happy to actually jump into the final question yeah please uh I mean this is just bringing it to
(38:39) the basics remember we're VC's um you know I am an article 9 fund so we are looking for uh that deep sustainability commitment through the lifetime of your company but the key thing to fundraising is to uh is to balance the being having a Grand Vision like the big Market but also deliver ing um those results on time um of course with some margin of error but you know every VC shares every Deck with each other everyone s saw your seed deck where you promised XYZ but you know be you know don't be too realistic
(39:12) right shoot for the moon but also you know stick to the plan and if you can show that you are able to predict the future a bit right it makes it really much easier to back you especially when it comes to Hardware right so it's very basic stuff yeah thank you for the invitation again thank you also for the sponsorship uh I I would say to close uh I I don't think they sell at Cost I don't think they sell uh because they cross subsidy anything I think they just have a different uh timeline and uh in 20 years from now
(39:47) that's when really we will see who was smart today and the problem we have in Europe and in the US is that we can't think Beyond two to three years return I mean at Large Scale I mean if you and I can do much except for this exactly uh but no at large look we're not so many uh here decarbonization is the top number one type of challenge we still have uh gzl cards that just uh completely pack the the prominade in Davos that's reality right and we are going to use uh oil to the last drop all right however you know those states are
(40:23) taking this long-term approach and they are investing massive L and they have the time with them to make sure that when everybody you know it's you know dry up then they will be the ones benefiting from it great F then briani uh briefly uh advice for entrepreneurs raising money don't think you're raising money think you're raising Consciousness and being in a community Collective that's the first it's about the people it's about the purpose around the people and then finding the values because I've seen so many I mean in the
(41:02) investment banking world where part of our family's been in for many many years you have these value-driven requirements you know do you make it to scale are you going to make it to seed ABC what's your timeline how is it when is it we taking you public where are we going with it um and you know I I just want to come back to one area there you talked China but India I've done a lot of work in India and it's a very important economy as well because the technology comes maybe wrapped with a different philosophy sometimes when you
(41:39) invest in India and invest together so I have been able to blend also some Chinese technology some of the best Chinese technology in some of the work that I do in in Medtech and investing into um health and gut biome and looking at because it's if we're not healthy how do we invest even to look at a new type of air conditioning that we need and a filtration system so it should be a combination so I wanted to just place that when you're raising Capital think about the consciousness of how many people can you affect because for me I'm
(42:14) a yeah I'm a lucky investor in a way because I've had failures I've had a lot of failures because I've seen companies that didn't have a Long Run Drive and in that way I can say hang on a minute you've got an IP here I can combine you with this other great team that has skills here and what hang on a minute you think you're valued and you have 80% of the company this was last week um but hang on a minute if I bring you in a 64d investment where you're going to be devalued but you're going to scale it into 16 20 more countries this year I
(42:51) think that's a really wise step to take so don't think about you as a as a individual or as an owner of a VC or of your company even for you guys your VCS I want you to grow I want you to thrive and take what you've built and take it to as many people and the planet as fast as we can thank you thank you Fiona I'll keep it brief in addition to what I said earlier so if you're a startup founder wanting to raise capital from VCS as well as having a commercially viable business model because we're going to be looking at the bottom line um I
(43:23) personally found it always so valuable to really hone The Art of Storytelling because as a leader of your company it is your job to convey your values and your vision and your purpose for existence to the investors you're talking to and that's what's going to really resonate with them and have that you that emotional reaction that you want to raise especially in uh sectors like climate Tech so yeah work on that pitch all right fantastic so we uh we have another panel after this um where we're going to go a lot deeper into
(43:48) climate and energy and that starts in 45 minutes so because we have a break they told us we we do have time to take some questions um so I'll let some of you if you want to go and I'll say thank you to the audience and the rest of you can say so thank you for uh for those of you have to go uh but if you can stay we'd love you to stay and have you have a few questions yes thank you uh my name is Simon bures I am a partner at Green investors we are something between a not a venture capital fund but we're an investing company that does not only
(44:20) invest cash Capital but also our brain capital or human capital into building venture um projects but also companies in the hydrogen space so uh I was Keen hearing that uh you believe in hydrogen that is usually somewhat of a mission to to explain to people um my question is we do have renewable hydrogen based on renewable energies electrolyzers mostly looking at the global South because it's cheap there and they have an export opportunity there uh we also look at a mega Trend called natural hydrogen which is something that occurs naturally in
(44:57) the the Earth and we have uh also one of our uh companies that we invested in here with us so question is um did you ever look into natural hydrogen uh what is your opinion on it and um the cost of natural hydrogen is around $1 a kilo uh that could literally disrupt uh the energy transition and make everything it make um natural gas uh natural hydrogen cheaper than electricity so just a a few words about that and happy to connect later on as well on on different topics um just hav't I haven't uh we haven't yet made a investment in
(45:36) hydrogen into the supply chain I have looked at it a bit um also into stimulated hydrogen oo um I think for for me what's always been hard in that vein is um we tend to invest in products not projects and most of what I've seen feels like once the technology is ready for me it's actually more ready for um infrastructure type investing right and and building um projects but that's I I do find it a really interesting area so I've done hydrogen with certain groups and I will say we're moving as you asked into different Realms of hydrogen there's
(46:21) been a lot of commodity finance and infrastructure in Europe that put into Hydro hen um and I'm not sure it was the right hydrogen technology but they've put too much money in that infrastructure so they're going to keep it going and you know they don't want to they they've they've went in too early with tech that probably wasn't the right Investments personally and so that's what happens and so then they want to give a return back to the government of Germany or whether it be in France with more certain areas of nuclear where
(46:55) they're having to replace with smarter nuclear with fision and fusion and moving forwards I had the the joy of Nasim haran um and different people looking at how are we moving Tech into that but for you for hydrogen we need it there is an investment thesis that can move really radically forwards we've just been doing some into Brazil and Latin America um so I don't talk publicly about some of the other family office and larger scale Investments we do work um with major Banks and so those kinds of bonds are really important and
(47:32) that we can talk offline on well maybe uh sorry I just quickly answer your point uh natural hydrogen um is part of the mix not a problem for me um I think hydrogen is not made for all uh countries I think actually in Europe and to some extent in the US but certainly in Europe it's not not um the best and the smartest energy uh the reason is it's we are over infrastructured equipped and so the cost of running that industry in the middle of a very efficient infrastructure model it is not really making a lot of sense
(48:16) and because of that we are letting the whole field to the Middle East India China and all of that because we don't understand the rational of it but in countries where you have significant amount of land and as you said large populations in climate deteriorations drying up and all of that I mean those guys they don't have anywhere near the capacity to bring the infrastructure I was talking about in order for them to uh fast sustain themselves so the hydrogen itself is the only long-term solution including the shipping industry
(48:53) because that is the energy of the future so it's not going to be tomorrow it's going to take 30 years going to take 50 years but I'll be around even if I'm quite old and I will witness that one there's two questions here and back there I'll believe you first thank you um my question uh given that the sustainability transition is more or less inevitable I think we can all agree on that um less exploitative more um socially um equality based business business models um might bring less margins in the future or take more time
(49:32) to bring the margins for VC um Capital raises how do you feel about that when you take that into the equation is the VC World ready to accept uh less profits on the sh term I won't answer that one because clearly my experience is no um yeah I think there's a bit of a yes and no um as someone you mentioned earlier Scott about how you know when you ask the LPS A lot of them say like yeah we're proclimate but uh the reality is they care about the bottom line but we as a VC we get to structure the thesis of what we want to invest in and
(50:07) then it's our job to try and justify that to our LPS so because I've been working now with a lot of Hardware a lot of built worlds and in my previous fund as well a lot of iot and connected Hardware we know from day one that the time to Market is going to be longer that the time for potential exit is going to be a lot longer than pure software and that's why so many more VCS are investing in pure software because it's quicker to Market quicker to commercialize um but yeah we just have to think about the long game so um as we
(50:31) don't expect all of our companies to become unicorns it's much harder um and fewer in in a hardware space but we are willing to wait I think uh in terms of social impacts I mean we will take a look at how our companies are performing uh uh what communities they're solving a problem for um many often times you can find companies that are reducing costs increasing access for low-income communities or diverse communities and we will attempt for that um but there are boundaries to as in a narrow investment thesis on how narrow you can
(51:07) go when we're already doing um Hardware uh a lot of Hardware infrastructure um but I think um if we're really really focused on lowering costs um I don't I don't necessarily believe in trickle down technology but uh you will be you can identify Technologies that are providing um for the right communities and we have some in the US right that have created innovative business models that allow for uh lower income households to have Quality heating um that they're not paying for right that is reducing costs for their landlords
(51:43) and then that is actually in some ways passed down to the to the tenant the long-term tenants but it's not a direct Focus I would like to see more funds in that space um there are a lot of social justice funds that are focused on Healthcare Financial inclusion that have done a good job I just haven't seen much with a with climate Focus funds being able to um narrow that in the time frame that VC funds are expected to return whereas virtue Ventures was just launched there we go and that's one of I'm a co-founder of virtue Ventures so
(52:16) it should speak for itself there's virtue and then there's Ventures so it's virtu ventures. org and that's our spectral Collective consciousness people personal liability reliability and where do you walk and talk and plant and grow and feed and so it's really rooted in the essence of it is a venture capital model but it has a longer walk and path that Bridges us to go together forward so thank you next question good morning everybody thank you very much for this speech I I will ask a question to everybody in this room
(53:00) and also for you Scott and the panelists a very different question I'm an investor my name is Malik living in London uh we are investing a company a technology which found the solution to bir's energy and CO2 problem in Heating and Cooling two questions one think about there is a heat pump or a solar panel and there is a radiator inside it and nothing else only one time outside is -2 inside is 25° C no boiler no fossil fuels what I mean everybody heard about the waste heat our planet globally produces 3 trillion gwatt energy per day per day 40
(53:46) percentage of it 1.2 trillion gwatt energy per day is wasted under 100° C use there is no technology in the world which can recycle it except the one we invested my question is if we say Hocus Pocus and all the chimneys adapted wasted Recovery Unit very small unit what happens do you think that all the governments my question is focused on wasted recovery Technologies which is the most most simple way to stop carbon footprint thank you I'll just say that uh I I can't comment on the physics of it but I and I know he's not as popular
(54:39) as it used to be but Elon Musk has famously said that uh why would we build a fusion plant on earth when we've got one that comes up every day and provides us all the heat and electricity and power we need so I I'm sure there are ways to kind of capture it part of is through solar and electricity part of it's probably through Heating and other other techn why not makes sense it's free comes up every day it's pretty reliable well I will say um come and uh uh visit our farm here in Davos uh not my farm it's a farm where I stay those
(55:11) are farmers uh real Farmers they have cows and uh they Heat their house exactly the way the way you just describe it so it's something that is uh potentially accessible I think it's today we have have a problem of cost it's not so much a problem of Technology being a hyrogen extraction being a a you know a simple renewable solution as you just described uh using natural element uh the truth is that if we were to shift to this at scale uh another part of the economy will will go down very fast which is not really what the
(55:52) geopolitical you know people wants so um that's why I'm saying this is going to come in the next 20 30 40 50 years it's not a question of um you know does it make sense or not we could all do it but if you were to do that you need 30 years to recover your Investments oh what the hell you know diesl works fine yeah I'm sustainable but diesel works fine maybe later on when I am rich and I can put 10,000 Swiss Franks in the solution I will but not for now and not for my generation and that's a common General Behavior because it's it's way too
(56:33) expensive you know put these cost way down and people will buy them byy the in it but it's not uh where we are at this very moment 2025 yeah maybe just adding quickly before we wrap up we do have the technology already right I mean two of the things that you mentioned just now uh We've invested in one company called alag that's optimizing how heat pumps are installed because quite often it's done inefficiently and there's another one called neocarbon that's doing direct air capture that is utilizing existing
(57:01) infrastructure and capturing the the excess heat um so you know we have the Technologies but the real question now is can we scale those and of course in Europe especially there is that funding gap which is why I was so happy to see Sarah on the panel earlier doing series B and based in Germany I was like yes we need more of you thank you to make sure that we can properly roll these Technologies out great do we have a can we keep going one more two okay we're out of time I love the fact that everyone is still staying here it means
(57:25) that there's some interest so thank you for the Chanel thank you for coming and hopefully we'll see you uh at is it yeah 11:45 for 11 so plant some trees it's that's all I ask 11 just in your own garden come back here for 11:00 for the panel on energy and I'll be moderating that too so hope to see you back you thank you [Music]