Tall Tails Fishing Podcast
Welcome to The Rodcast!
The unfiltered, salt-crusted fishing podcast based out of The Wild West of Australia
Fishing runs deep in our blood—passed down through generations, shaping who we are and how we live. It’s more than just catching a feed; it’s about the adventure, the laughs, and the wild places it takes us. But above all, it’s about the storytellers—the salty sea dogs, the trailblazers, the madmen with experiences so wild they’re almost unbelievable.
Join Mark LeCras & Jake Rotham as they dive into raw, unfiltered conversations with WA’s most seasoned fishos, uncovering legendary Tall Tails from the wild west and beyond.
No filters. No fluff. Just fishing, good banter, and real stories from the people who’ve lived them.
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Tall Tails Fishing Podcast
Ep.04 | Jayson Spencer | Dhufish, Tackle Shop Wisdom & Finding Your Own Spots
Welcome to The Rodcast! — the unfiltered, salt-crusted fishing podcast based out of The Wild West of Australia!
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This week we’re joined by young gun Perth fisherman Jayson Spencer
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Having fished with Jayse ourselves, you can trust us when we say that this dude can fish! From Dhufish & Pelagic species off the coast, to Bream & Giant Herring in Perth's Swan River, Jayse has a lot of them dialled while still taking the approach of endless learning with his fishing…
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Here’s what you can expect from this weeks episode with Jayson Spencer…
- Jayse being a closet Lecca footy fan.
- The importance of supporting a good local tackle shop to find fishing mentors and gain valuable knowledge.
- Dropping a Gopro on unsuspecting structure to find BIG Dhueys.
- A “Fish First” approach to conservation & good stewardship.
- How recruitment patterns in fish populations explain why some years produce good numbers of fish & other years don't.
- Lecca shares one of the all time hype man speeches he received on the water, from Cervantes local legend, Scotty Watson.
- Jayse hits the boys with a question that can only bring up PTSD
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No filters. No fluff. Just fishing, good banter, and real stories from the people who’ve lived them.
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No filters. No fluff. Just fishing, good banter, and real stories from the people who’ve lived them.
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No filters. No fluff. Just fishing, good banter, and real stories from the people who’ve lived them.
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TALL TAILS!!
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INTRO TUNE
🥩 Red Bellied Black Snake - The Beefs 🥩
Courtesy of Sam Smith
Click here to listen to The Beefs on Spotify
For all enquiries about Tall Tails Fishing Podcast, please contact jakerotham@gmail.com
One, two, one, two, three, four. Alright, everybody, welcome back. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Tall Tales Fishing Rodcast. Today we are joined by a bit of a young gun, lekker.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, a young gun Got a lot of knowledge about fishing Makes me feel a bit obsolete when I'm around him, when I start talking to him. To be honest, yeah, no, very impressive young man. We had the good fortune of fishing together actually recently, um, but yeah, and I was very impressed with your knowledge and, um, happy to have you on the happy to have you on the rod cast mate, jay spencer, everybody oh, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, no, really really chuffed to be here. Um, I'd say like, yeah, it's a bit of a weird one fishing with your idol Footy player. Yeah, I mean when I was growing up, when I first started processing footy, I wore the number two on the back of my jersey.
Speaker 2:How's that I'd save this bit of knowledge?
Speaker 3:So, you didn't know this before.
Speaker 1:Well, you're not known for your footy ability, mate, so we've got something in common there. But you are known, I guess, amongst the uh wa tackle trade because you worked at complete angler netherlands. That's where I got to know you. That's, you know, one of my favorite tackle shops going around um and uh. We had a day out fishing together recently which was pretty epic. Just towards the end of the demersal season, start of the year, we went out together um jig for some jews. We actually had a really good day, like getting a bit of a mixed bag there.
Speaker 2:Hey, we've got some species yeah, so, like I think you mentioned, we went out off savannies and, um, we went out with the the idea of getting some demersals early and then trying to mix up our bag limit and species and, yeah, moved on to the inshore stuff and we had a wicked little session Good fun we managed to get some herring and tailor and ended up getting a few ockies out of the ockie pots up there as well. That was a first for me.
Speaker 3:That was yeah weird.
Speaker 2:How good was that I could tell when it came to getting the occies out of the way.
Speaker 1:What do you do Of all the sea creatures you pull out of the ocean? As a fisherman I'd say occies have got to be one, that you've got to have an element of mongrel in you, you know what I mean. You've got to go hard at them. You can't just be relaxed and be gentle.
Speaker 3:I'm used to the cradle hold and the gentle nah this is brute force.
Speaker 1:You're not catching ockies for catch and release, so you've got to be rough with them.
Speaker 2:It's a swift, like you said. Straight to the point grab them by the head and get them out of there. Bit of salt in the pot and they come crawling out at a rate of knots and they're good fun, though, and good fun and you can do a lot with them. They're good bait, obviously good to eat as well.
Speaker 1:We had. Well, so, yeah, I, uh it was actually we had two boats out that day, so we were fishing with a uh, great mate of ours, scotty watson, local up in savannies, and, um, while we were doing that occy fishing, I think you guys were trying for some squid, so you were on your boat, I was with scotty and we'd had a big day like this is getting towards the end of the arvo and I'm sort of sunbaking, almost having a quick bit of shut eye on the front of scotty's boat, and all I hear is jace is on the casting deck of yours with all these hockey heads that we cut off pegging them at me, trying to hit I was quite disappointed with my effort there are you a cricket player too?
Speaker 3:oh yeah, I did play a bit of cricket back in, uh, back in the school days, but you should have an arm.
Speaker 1:You should have have hit me. We weren't that far away.
Speaker 3:I loved it. I haven't lost it, but I lost it.
Speaker 1:That would have been pretty funny. But, mate, touching on the, we'll get back to that day at Savandies because that was a really good day. I want to delve a little bit deeper into that. We had a feed at the pub the night before and you dropped some absolute knowledge bonds on us that I think are going to be of value to anyone that's listening. But going back to the shop, so I've touched on in the last few episodes how important it is to support a local tackle shop. I didn't know you prior to walking into Complete. Got to know you obviously through my great mate, anton pope, who worked there as well. But, um, all the boys at complete have been super helpful, you being one of them. Um, mate, how important was, you know, being part of that tackle shop for your fishing career and what have you learned through working at a tackle shop?
Speaker 1:you know, you've obviously got some really good mentors there as well, so talk to us a little bit about you. Know what you learn in a tackle shop working?
Speaker 3:there. I'd say, first and foremost, with, with, complete is, that had been my tackle store, still is my tackle store since I was a kid, since I started fishing. Yeah, so you know, you got brian, you got kim stalwarts, john stalwarts of the shop um, who I'd been coming in there since I was a little rat, and I guarantee you, you ask them, dan Sim was working there back in the day.
Speaker 3:Tom Shuling, you ask them, I was possibly the most annoying kid because I would come in and I'd ask so many questions, probably the same questions day in, day out, but that's how I kind of learned and I wouldn't say fast track. There's guys who have picked up certain aspects of fishing much quicker than I have. So you were Rothy before Rothy was Rothy.
Speaker 2:I was worse. Imagine what Rothy is.
Speaker 3:I was worse, like I was a shocker. It would be like my grandpa would take me in. He's like, oh, what do you want to do after school? He's like, oh, can I go into complete and just be incomplete for an hour or two? Yeah, you get lost in there, don't you.
Speaker 1:It's actually a dangerous place because you go in there. I might go in there trying to. It's pretty close to the river. I do a lot of river fishing for the mullies obviously and I might be short on a particular jighead that I need to spend in there to say g'day to everybody and grab what I need. But two hours later I walk out and I've spent 500 bucks. It's a dangerous place to be.
Speaker 3:There's a stupid amount of stuff in there and it's actually a bit of a symptom of just how much trust and family environment there is in that store, in amongst the staff as well, as we have really good relationships with our customers and that's a real at the time when I was working there real pride um of the store, yeah um, but I even when it comes to the sheer amount of gear. It's because there's that trust in in even the ordering like, uh, brian will go to to finn, let's say finn's lambaste gun.
Speaker 1:He's a gun on everything, but particularly with fishing talent, that boy yeah, yeah, yeah 100, so he he gives you a little bit of control, the ordering. You know if you guys want something, he'll let you get it in.
Speaker 3:Well, he'll say finn, you do the ordering. Um, you want beach rods, you do the ordering, finn. Finn knows his gear inside out, so he's he's the one who takes on that responsibility. Um, when it comes to fly fishing, you john kimbo, uh, popey, when he was in there, yeah, like all that stuff. So you know really, um, you know putting that trust on as well, and and they've got to sell it as well right.
Speaker 3:So if they're the ones that sell, there's plenty of stuff that doesn't sell there. There's plenty of punts that have been taken, so go go rummage to the bargain bins, but um, there's some absolute bangers what I mean is if they in the product.
Speaker 2:It's easy for them to sell if they've used it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't want to sell shit that's just out of shit. You want to believe in what you're selling. You don't want to send somebody out the door with a product that they just straight up don't need. Money's tight these days for a lot of people, but what I'm alluding to is you guys have been a really important part of my fishing journey. Everybody that I've spoken to in there has been more than helpful and that I guess over time that I've become a familiar face. I chat to everybody and a bit more trust is built and they reveal a little bit more information.
Speaker 1:So I might be like oh, what do you? You know I'm going for this today. What should I buy? Or just try this little spot as well. Like this is what you should use, but try this little spot. There's a lot of warm water here or there's a lot of bait coming around here. So people like joff um, you know poppy kim like what a what a knowledge base that guy has. All he does is work at the shop and go fishing. But, mate, you were very, very helpful towards me, um, when I first started coming in there. So I just wanted to acknowledge that, mate, and thank you for for all your help no problem, but good to see the passion mate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, I just froth and I know you do too, and I think that's why we get along so well. But, um, who is one personality that stands out in that shop that had a real impact on sort of your fishing journey so far.
Speaker 3:It's been different ones at different stages. I'd say Brian, the owner, yeah, legend, just an absolute legend, just a wealth of information from over his years of experience in not only fishing but the tackle industry. And like, yeah, if I said anything, I'd be selling him short. Yeah, like he just goes above and beyond. Like he'll invite you on fishing trips. Invite you, if I said anything, I'd be selling him short. Yeah, like he just goes above and beyond. Like he'll invite you on fishing trips, invite you out on the boat. Will not accept a cent of fuel, money or anything like that. Like he's just, he's like your mentor, your boss, but also your mate at the same time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And like he's been that consistent one throughout. But I can say Kimbo is another one, so I know any bit of info I get out of Kimbo. He's a bit of a closed book at times.
Speaker 1:He is. He holds his cards close to his chest, doesn't he Any?
Speaker 3:chance. But yeah, any bit of info you get out of him is worth. You know it's gospel. Yeah, joffa's another one since he started there. Yeah, before he started there, um, yeah, before he started there he had a bit of a like.
Speaker 1:Obviously it was a reputation as this really really good fish shows being tackle industry involvement from back in the day. He was involved with tackle world up in Mindari, wasn't he?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I believe he managed it at that time. Yeah, yeah, and, um, yeah, this. So I was like, yeah, trying to pick his brains always try and pick the brains of good fishers, because that's how you it's a little hack to get you forward, I guess. But yeah, he's been another one where what he's offered is yeah, it's been fantastic in all the cases. Yeah, how long did you work there for? It was around three years, so time flew. I was at uni at the same time, so I was just working casual. Yeah, it was really close to home as well, five minutes from home, so it was just bounce between there, uni and going out fishing on the boat.
Speaker 2:So for me I want to talk about your younger years as well. You mentioned going into Complete and all that sort of stuff. How did your real passion for fishing kick off?
Speaker 3:It was a family trip to Kalbarri, I think in 2008.
Speaker 3:So, I would have been maybe six or seven at the time. Yep, and Dad just took us down to I can't even remember if it's still there, it's like an old boat ramp thing near the mouth and caught a few of those real cacataila, like the tiny, tiny ones you get in the river there sometimes, and a Moses perch and a whiting. And the whiting was my first fish and I was like I don't know why it just clicked with me like I really enjoyed it. And so he started taking us every day of that holiday. You know we'd be catching tiny brim, little estuary cod and things from the shore and I just loved it. And then when we got back I was like, hey, dad, can we go fishing like every weekend? And so he likes fishing.
Speaker 3:He's not obviously as into it as me and didn't have that same starting point when it comes to experience. So he's one of those just casual, casual fishers. So when we started going out more regularly he wouldn't always put me on the fish kind of thing. Particularly when you're starting off, putting kids on fish is A1. It needs to be done, otherwise they can lose the passion. Yeah, but no, I kept wanting to go, kept going Through school. It was a bit hit and miss, like sport commitments through school, like I was playing footy, I was playing touch rugby, I was playing cricket during summer summer and cricket, you know, takes a stack of time. So there wasn't a lot of time for fishing. I was trying to do it when I could.
Speaker 1:Just get that microphone a little bit close to your face there, bro like that perfect, I want to hear what you've got to say.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so no, like playing sport through school and stuff like that, so it takes a lot of time, yeah, and then the school itself. So it's not like you got access to anything midweek. You got to go home and do your homework and all that. So fishing was few and far between then.
Speaker 1:That takes a long time in itself too right Fishing's, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's an investment in more ways than one. But in about I don't know, it would have been year eight, year nine. I was like, all right, I'm actually going to take this seriously. So I cut back on the sport a little bit, went a little more selective, so I dropped footy. Yeah, um, I dropped touch for a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um kept cricket during summer but went no.
Speaker 3:Winter's my fishing time, yeah, yeah winter's my fishing time so I was like you know, I was at that point. I was like, okay, I'm gonna start taking this seriously, I'm gonna start from square one, yeah, and we'll build up from here. So I was like, okay, square one, what's easily accessible to me that I can go and just go cut my teeth on, and brim was the answer. But within that species, you've got a number of different challenges and and sets of objectives, I guess. So the first thing was I want a 40-centimeter brim out of the swan. How long did that take you?
Speaker 1:A couple months, shit, that's a pretty good going.
Speaker 3:I was fishing bait at this point.
Speaker 1:So I was working.
Speaker 3:There was that Steve Correa video with the mussels floating around at that point in time.
Speaker 1:Oh, the old fishing WA.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I was treating that as gospel and using the exact same approach at certain areas, and I found that during winter there's no blowies in the swan sometimes, particularly when you have good flush. So I was fishing a lot of areas that in summer you wouldn't touch with bait because it would get destroyed and crushing the muscles and using the actual insides. And I used to go down to the floating pontoons and physically get down on my haunches and throw the bait underneath and then free spool and at the particular spot I was fishing, there was this one day where I went down there. It was stormy, it was blowing northerly, it was disgusting, there was no one anywhere near me and I had the hottest session on bait brim at one of the most popular spots I probably won't name, drop it because it'll get destroyed.
Speaker 1:No, don't.
Speaker 3:Well, this is going to millions of people.
Speaker 2:You don't want anyone, uh but it's still got me like first. 40 centimeter brim is still my pb today. It is it's 46.
Speaker 3:How old do you reckon you were? Um 15? Yeah, wicked, but it was, yeah, a couple months into trying. I think it was in september, so towards that end of that winter period. But it was just a disgusting day, not the day you'd think to go fishing, and it was. I think I caught three 40s for that day and a number of fish into the high 30s, wicked.
Speaker 1:Unreal. So you were just that keen, you were out there, yeah every weekend.
Speaker 2:What did you move on to? What was the next evolution?
Speaker 3:Next one was 40 centimeter brim on lure. Yep, and also flatties came along that summer centimeter flatty on lure. Um, that one was not too difficult. Um, actually got that some of my pb, which 59 yep. Um, so yeah, that one was was an easy one and then it was. It was kind of just, oh, now I've got these two options, I can really hone in on them a bit. So the brim became a big thing for me. I'd like five years ago or so I was averaging something like 300 or 400 or more brim a summer. I would just go out three times a week and I'd get 30 fish a session.
Speaker 1:That's a lot of brim, and so I just work on the numbers. It's a lifetime for people.
Speaker 3:Because you're always chasing that 40 or that bigger fish and things happen as well when you're chasing them. You catch soapy mulloway, you catch big flatties. You hook giant herring easy hook giant herring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my better giant herring spots my really quiet ones are all the ones that I found whilst brim fishing. Yeah, mate, you've given me a lot of info over over our time knowing each other, but the gh is, uh, something that you've never really revealed anything to me. So I might even get a bottle. I know what happens when people find out, and even if I want to see someone so desperately catch one, yeah, even if they're your mate, it's not worth it.
Speaker 3:It's too tough. I've seen spots get just hammered to death, Like back in the day. Claremont used to be the well-known one for giants At Caracalla Bank there or along the shoreline, just in the bay along where Mrs Herbert's Park is.
Speaker 1:Okay, so land-based.
Speaker 3:Yeah, land-based and it used to get flogged and the giants quick, smart, so they're really bad with fishing pressure. Even some of my quiet spots if I hammer them too hard, the fish disappear right.
Speaker 1:So you consciously are thinking I've fished this myself too many times, so you're moving around 100. Yeah, so same thing goes for jewies as well as in what mullies?
Speaker 3:or?
Speaker 1:or jewish, oh yeah, yeah, you won't hear me calling them all the way to me spots is one of the.
Speaker 2:It's one of the great rewards in fishing as well If you know that you've got a spot that is going to hold fish and you can leave it as your backup option so you get the chance to explore. And then it's like all right, if I'm desperate for a fish, I know I can go here because I've left them on the chew. There's nothing better than having that up your sleeve. I don't think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's something that I worked hard on with my demersal stuff.
Speaker 1:It and that's something that I worked hard on with my demersal stuff. So, like you know, it's actually a great segue. Mate, I've got this as a dot point here because you have quite a unique approach for finding Deweys. You talk us through that. So, like, go back to your first Dewey. I want to know about that. And then I want to know about your recent stuff with dropping a GoPro down onto there. So let's go to Deweys. What's your biggest Dewey? First of all, biggest.
Speaker 3:Dewey's meter two or meter three, so it was about 18 kilos. That was my first time ever chasing Dewey's. That was my second ever Dewey.
Speaker 1:No way.
Speaker 2:I've got you on a filthy bananary, yellowy, pink, soft plastics.
Speaker 3:Jerk shads on an elevator head, dropped it down and hooked up instantly.
Speaker 1:I've got GoPro footage of it somewhere, because I had a little GoPro rocking at the time. You have to flick that to me.
Speaker 3:It's a little me sounding like a squeaker and groaning and moaning a bit. But that was a good fish, that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah nice, 18 kilos is a massive Jewie. That's a big fish.
Speaker 1:My PB that I got recently 96 centimetres, that was 14 kilos. Four kilos when we're talking fishes, you know that's quite a bit of weight for how much that fish has grown lengthwise. They seem to just get thicker and more of a tank.
Speaker 2:The head's massive as well, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 3:How old is a fish like that? It's funny. You can get real variability between fish of the same age. So let's say you've got a 12 kilo Dewey that fish. Let's say that's probably 90 in the 90s somewhere. That fish could be anywhere from maybe 10 years old at the youngest to maximum age 40. So particularly if it's a female, females 40.
Speaker 1:Yeah but there's 30-year age gap there.
Speaker 3:And females don't grow as large as the males do consistently. So quite often you'll get females in that 90-centimetre range that are towards the end of their lives really, and they're the ones that you want in the population because they're the ones doing the bulk of that breeding. Yeah right, and it's a shame to see when those bigger fish get selected out of a population you know. Obviously the males, because they grow to that larger size, seem to be selected against there, but by the same token you're selecting against those larger females. So it's almost just a shame to see those big females get taken out, like before I found this out I'd, but it's not like you're not going to retain a fish out of 30 meters, but fishing down at augusta I got a meter one, uh, female dewey, which is one like you. Look on um, on facebook or whatever.
Speaker 3:you don't see many big female juries over a metre and this one was probably around that 16-kilo mark. And I look back now and I cringe at the fact that I retained that fish, even though that's what you do anyway.
Speaker 1:It's not going to go back any time, but you've learnt that with. Obviously we haven't touched on it yet, but you have a degree in marine biology, is that correct? It's actually a degree in finance with a major in marine biology is that correct?
Speaker 3:yeah, it's actually a degree in finance with a major in marine biology. So I took a hack and went through the bachelor of commerce and and just decided to do a second major in marine bio.
Speaker 1:So we'll touch on that in a bit because I want to get back to the dewey. So your biggest dewey you've ticked that off. Um, your approach to finding deweys is quite unique. I think you've done a video on it. When you were working at Complete, you were running their YouTube channel for them, but you were dropping a GoPro around, so you were putting around looking for these spots in isolated areas, and then you would find a lump or find an area that looked fruitful what you think would hold fish and then you'd drop a GoPro down. The footage that you were getting was pretty sick. So what was tell us about that?
Speaker 3:so I think I started doing it um in in line with doing the complete stuff, like at the same time as like typically, if I wanted jewies in the past I'd go to savannies because that was my comfort area, careful careful, that was me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, wedge, wedge.
Speaker 3:But that was why I was confident in getting good fish there and not struggling to get a feed and having a good day out. So it's a trip I'll still do, but I don't rely on it to the same capacity that I used to, and it's all as a result of just going, and Joffa put me onto more or less the kind of fishing that I currently do, which is that northern suburbs kind of stuff, yeah, fishing relatively featureless terrain, yeah, and the trouble with that is it's hard to find spots. But when you find them and you find enough of them you can farm it and get a relatively easy feed with minimal effort, which is what my goal was. So it took the better part of two years of camera dropping so I would go out and drop GoPros on whatever I'd see in my sounder.
Speaker 3:It could be absolute rubbish. Like half the time when I was starting I was dropping it on sand and going, oh, there's some sandies there, or oh, there's floating seaweed on the bottom and that's what I'm picking up, or you know, this is just nothing. And then you know it'd just be weird. You get a real sense for reading your sounder at the same time, but also building up a bank of spots.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's like for a lot of people like I can speak from experience here, right, so I've only bought my boat in the last. I think it's three years now coming on three years. When you buy a sounder, you can read the instruction manual, you can look at some YouTube videos or whatever. But it's quite an art to pick up and a skill to pick up and then be able to know what you're looking at on the bottom.
Speaker 1:There's a few people that have said use those glass bottom buckets and look down. So look at what your sound is showing, look in that bucket and then you can know what's underneath you. But obviously in that depth you know where you're fishing for jewies anywhere from sort of mid-20s up to anything deeper it's. You can't see the bottom, so that's not a way to it.
Speaker 1:So what you've done is you've rigged up a GoPro with a big old snapper lead on it right and you're dropping it to the bottom and you're reviewing that footage when you bring it up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, like it's a Hero 9. So this is one of the ones Brian's ones from Complete that he got so we could do the filming for the store. But yeah, it was one of those ones where you kind of just pick up and look at the back screen and go, oh, there's something there, there's nothing there. You can tell the terrain type and see if you're on the mark, because there's a couple of small little subtle things you can pick up on the sounder when you're scanning that featureless terrain. That can be the difference between that is dead sand or that is a ledge with rock bottom On some sounders. It's very hard to separate the two.
Speaker 3:So it did take a lot of trial and error to start. But then when I started seeing the right kind of ground and I started seeing deweys and I started seeing baldios, like okay, we're, we're winning a bit here. And then, like often I would go out during you know, terrible weather on just solo on my boat, or I'd go out without even dropping a line and I would go and drop cameras. Yeah, just build up a bank of spots, because I like, uh, this will pay off in the future, like I want to be out there grinding.
Speaker 1:You're doing the prep work yeah, so I'm taking a little bit more seriously and, yeah, I'm taking a different approach one thing with the cameras.
Speaker 2:I remember when you, when we spoke about it before, was I asked you how you stop them spinning and you actually said I don't?
Speaker 3:Yeah, as much as for presentation. If I go and show people, it's hard to go. Oh, look at this cool school of Dewey's that I filmed when I dropped my camera. The way it pivots gives you a good 360 at times of your surroundings, and the kind of things I'm looking for are tiny, tiny ledges and holes. Like you know, you hear people talking about your Swiss cheese style bottom when you're drifting on that hard flat stuff.
Speaker 1:A wonky hole. Is that what they call them sometimes?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's a slightly different thing, but these are smaller than those Gotcha Like these are. So, like you talk about Swiss cheese bottom, that kind of up and down flat stuff. Um, I was like, oh well, what's so special about that? You're catching ballies and big deweys off it and you know you don't have to mark fish and and you can drift through and catch them. And what I found through that is there are small bits of ground on there that the fish will hold on.
Speaker 3:You're just not picking it up yeah, gotcha and so people do these big long drifts through good areas that have multiple little ledges or or holes in them, and they pick up fish, but they wouldn't necessarily go. At what point of my drift did I pick up fish? So, trial and error, I found out that dewey's love hanging on a ledge. You often won't pick it up because when they're hanging on the and we're talking 20 centimeter ledges here like tiny.
Speaker 1:So it's not. A ledge is probably the wrong word for it. Enough to fit a cray.
Speaker 3:Enough to fit a cray is enough to hold deweys, and actually it's the bullseyes that you look for.
Speaker 1:If I see bullseyes, I actually, even if I don't see a diamonds, yeah, they'll feed on them but it's just an indicator.
Speaker 3:Like they live in caves, gotcha. So if there is a ledge nearby, you will see bullseyes, or you'll never see bullseyes away from a ledge, really, yeah, so it's the same habitat type that you're looking for, and bullies by extension. As much as they'll cruise out in the open, they'll almost always be something in the vicinity that they'll be on, and it doesn't have to be much. So a lot of my sounding and camera drops revolve around bullseyes and small ledges.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's sick. That's a little golden nugget there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, while we're on demersals as well. I want to talk a little bit about what you've got on your shirt. So you've got on your shirt. So you've got the Jewfish Forever shirt. There's been a lot of evolution in regards to the culture around fishing for demersals over the past few years, specifically the past couple of years. Talk to us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So Jewfish Forever is something that me personally, I've been lucky enough to be involved with, not even since the outset, but I know you, mark, as well have had a bit of involvement with it across its entire history, apart from when it, I think, started through Wreckfish West three or four years ago or however long ago it was when that petition came through Yep. But essentially it's promoting good ideas and sharing information amongst wrecked fishers about what is the right thing to do with our demersal fish, with the goal of. You know, we are putting the fish first. These are our fish as much as the government manages them on our behalf. You know we as wrecked fishers also have a role to play and we also have choices we can make which can help them go in the right direction.
Speaker 3:I think there's a there's a bit of short-sightedness when it comes to demersal fishing at the moment, um, and people quite quickly forget what it was like by all reports back in the 70s and 80s, when jewfish populations were healthy. Sure, they got hammered, but what's to say, we can't have that again and, with appropriate management measures in place, to see fantastic fishing experiences, because that's what it's about. It's as much about the fish as it is the fishes. But you need the right mix for that to happen, and it's a bit of a dream at this stage, and I think Jewfish River is one mechanism to get it there. Yeah, fishers, wreck fishers. Even I'd extend it out to charter and commercial guys making the right choices and getting the fish back on track.
Speaker 2:I think you nailed it and you mentioned. I think it's a good movement, I think the more that people can sort of understand what it is and hopefully get out there and do the best practice and treat the fish for what they are. They're not a sport fish. Yeah, they're good to be able to go and get a feed, but we want that fishery to really recover and hopefully our kids and their kids can all enjoy it as well, because it is the iconic WA species, wouldn't?
Speaker 1:you say Ross? Oh, absolutely, mate, it's endemic. There's nowhere else in the world where you can catch that fish. Am I wrong? No, that's endemic.
Speaker 3:So broadly esperance through to about shark bay, yeah, where you get them, and you look at that boomerang stripe through the eye and it's just. Everyone knows what that is in wa. Yeah, well, we were actually talking about.
Speaker 1:You know, when we were developing our logo for the podcast, like how can we make it? We want to interview people from or not interview, but talk to people. Talk to people all around Australia and eventually the world about fishing. But we're pretty proud of where we're from, the fishing we were talking the other day like we kind of feel like WA is one of the best places in the world to be a fisherman.
Speaker 3:Underrated as anything. Hey, how good is it.
Speaker 1:We want to kind of show off that we're from WA and the Jewish stripe the boomerang you actually gave me that idea and the Jewy stripe the boomerang you actually gave me that idea was to incorporate that in our logo. We went in a different direction, but I fully get what you're saying. The colouring of those fish, the stripe through the eye, the big convex tail, is unmissable. You can't mistake it for anything else.
Speaker 3:The other thing I'd say about Jewfish Forever is it's about bringing everyone on board who wants that better future for their demersal fishing. And in saying that, it's not about going and calling out people for doing the wrong thing necessarily. It's about everyone going on the same learning journey. So my learning journey has been steep because I've been involved with it from the internals, from the middle. So a lot of the science information I'm learning a lot of the best practice. I'm learning it step by step along the way as the program evolves. But for the average person out there there'll be ingrained habits, I can say for myself. Still, it is tempting to go and fish for demersals when it's open, as my protocol, as my normal thing to do, because I love doing it.
Speaker 1:It's pretty exciting man it's exciting.
Speaker 3:Jigging is cool, but I need to wrap myself in the knuckles, and that's my next step in this journey. Is I need to wrap myself in the knuckles going? I need to specialize in some other areas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is a great point, because part of that is promoting other fisheries as well, and at the moment, particularly in the metro area, there is lots of stuff going on. I know there's been a lot more fads and stuff put in in recent years as well. So what is a few of the different species that you have been targeting and how have you been going with those?
Speaker 3:So I've been looking at spanny max. Yep, um, so they're. They're one that I haven't touched like they used to be my curse fish, like for about four years. I couldn't get one, I'd done x mouth, I'd done the montes twice I'd done them and I couldn't get them.
Speaker 1:They would all get sharked or I would get bitten off or like even trolling behind the reef at xia.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't even hook one. I'd catch coros and GTs and I wouldn't catch a mackie.
Speaker 2:Tough one Probably too shallow, Poor thing yeah but it was just my demon fish.
Speaker 3:So I kind of got rid of that from. I did one Mackle Islands trip and stick baited without wire and didn't lose a single fish. So I was like cool, done, fixed. But a Metro one would be special for me as well, Like I've got a really soft spot for Kingfish as well. They're one I want to put more time into.
Speaker 1:They're next on my list of mastery. Me too, man.
Speaker 3:Because they're the full package. Hey, they look sick. They are so strong, they fight dirty, so they make it hard for you. And they taste fantastic too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had a sick session on them a couple of weeks ago out at Roto like nothing big.
Speaker 3:They don't need to be big to give you a run around.
Speaker 1:I reckon a kingy of the same size would pull a Sambo backwards.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, and I love targeting Sambos too. That was another symptom of doing that stuff for dewey's is I found some cracking reliable sambo spots and had a session out with uh, with anton uh, and got him. That was on the youtube channel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, on the fly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, go and check that out on fly um like we're trying some different things and dropping flies down with release weights and jigging the release weight off and then stripping the fly up through the sambos oh yeah, so youtube panel.
Speaker 2:So this is Complete Angler.
Speaker 1:Nedlands on YouTube.
Speaker 3:I don't think they've been putting videos out since you left, man, it is a hard job, so I don't blame them.
Speaker 1:But go back and watch that YouTube channel, guys, if you haven't seen it already, because Jase and everybody else that worked at Complete at the time and maybe still works there were really're really dropping some knowledge bombs.
Speaker 3:I know that that helped me out a lot, um, when I was first getting into it for sure, so definitely worth checking it out well, that was the idea is is giving back to the customers a bit and going like as much as when a customer comes in we'll have an hour-long conversation about at whatever they want. Like you know, it'll go to and fro you know how normally like fishing conversations go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll be like that, but you know you're'll go to and fro.
Speaker 3:You know how normally like fishing conversations go yeah, it'll be like that, but you know you're giving them advice along the way and you want to see them catch fish because you want them to go back, come back to you and go this is what you told me to do, I did it, or I tried this new thing which you know, and I caught this. And then you go that is sick, Like it gives you that little buzz, yeah, and that's another reason you do it and you gee other people up who are also excited about fishing. So it's that provision of information through another means they can kind of refer back to if they need. But it was also a smart marketing ploy and I give credit to Tackle West and they still are leading that front absolutely Like.
Speaker 1:Their channel is fantastic and was a great template to work on. He does a wicked job he does yeah, on his youtube channel. Yeah, what have you been targeting?
Speaker 2:recently. I know that you you went out for the maccies um and you did come close or not. What have you been targeting? How's your luck been sorry with the? With the spanish mackerel, because I know I spoke to you the other day after you'd been out there trawling at 4.30am and you showed me a photo. That was the day we were out there. It was a bit of a heartbreak.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was the old gar snippy in half. I mean, could well have not been a Mackie. I wasn't paying attention really. I was solo trying to manage two rods and weed on my swimming gars and all kinds of things going on going really close to the back of the reef and all kinds of things. So I missed the bite, went to check the bait and went, oh, it's in half. So it could have been a tailor, could have been a school mac, could have been a spanish, you don't really know. But um, yeah, a bit annoying.
Speaker 3:I'd spent a couple of hours so far doing it like a couple of sessions, so it's one of those things that I'm gonna have to go on away with. My first one, molly, was the same. 110 hours went into that fish of fishing. So yeah, it's one of those fish you know are put on a pedestal for a reason. It's because they're not easy to catch. On the other front I've been doing a bit of did a sand whiting comp yesterday through the Hillary's Yacht Club. Oh, sick. And so there's this kid that I used to take fishing a lot. I don't so much now. I work full time, but um, I got the opportunity to take him out. He's a member of the club, um, and he's uh, he must be like 11 or 12. Now, what's his name?
Speaker 1:Jackson Jackson shout out jackson. Yeah, shout out to jackson.
Speaker 3:He's an absolute gun um so I think there were a few categories for like heaviest whiting, and there's sand whiting only. So no, king george um, heaviest whiting um, heaviest bag of 10 whiting and heaviest junior whiting. Yep, um, and I think for most of it we were leading heaviest whiting, heaviest junior whiting and heaviest bag of 10. We ended up taking out heaviest bag of 10 and heaviest junior, but you could only win one major prize. So fair enough, that junior one went to another junior who missed out on our one by about 10 grams anyway.
Speaker 1:So credit to them. You need a pretty accurate set of scales. Eh yeah, To the decimal.
Speaker 2:I've emceed the other fishing comp that the Hillary's Yacht Club do every year and mate I've been impressed by the size of some of the flathead that have been weighed in oh the blue spot, Mate. They are massive. Did you get them?
Speaker 3:out whiting. I reckon I hooked one yesterday too. Yeah, and there must have been some wind knot that had pulled tight in my braid or something because it snapped at the rod.
Speaker 1:And I was like I knew what it was too yeah.
Speaker 3:It was doing those slow pulsey runs with big head shakes and I was like, oh, this is a big fight Because Josh got a really big one. When I took him out wilding fishing it would have been the high 70s and I was like, oh, these things exist out here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you happen to watch Tackle West's recent King George video where Paul Willey from I know where they're?
Speaker 3:fishing too, and that's that broader areas where Josh got his, and I've seen him before as well yeah, that thing was a proper crocodile of a flatty like huge.
Speaker 1:They were losing their shit when they got it on the boat.
Speaker 3:I would be too, and I was when Josh got his.
Speaker 1:Good on the chewed too, flatties, really good we got a bari out of Trigg one of those ones you get in the swan.
Speaker 3:They don't usually leave the swan, but this one was well out of its range in a sand hole off Trigg.
Speaker 2:Well, there's some weird things happening. We were talking about that cobia that got caught, yeah, in.
Speaker 3:Sam's 79 kilo cobia, which is I'd give it 80 because it was bled before. It was was it Well, I mean, some blood would have been lost. You're talking about moisture loss as well. I'd say when it was landed, that would have been 80 kilos, 79.6 kilo.
Speaker 2:it weighed in at, so yeah, 80 kilo.
Speaker 1:But smashed the record by 18 kilo.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, Pending record.
Speaker 1:I think they need to confirm everything's still above board.
Speaker 3:We know that's a bigger fish, we'll call that for the biggest cove just about ever seen. And that is a hell of a fish and to be caught in Perth so far away from its traditional range.
Speaker 1:That is so cool.
Speaker 3:You get the odd one venture down here with the sharks that come down.
Speaker 1:But usually they're small. It's the marine heat wave, isn't it? It's going to bring some that we're having at the moment. It's going to bring some that we're having at the moment. It's going to bring some fish down. Like did you? I don't know if you guys watch salt fix on youtube he had a whale shark off two rocks. Come and check out his prop on his boat only a few weeks ago, yeah, a massive whale shark come up to his boat.
Speaker 3:I'd say yeah marine heat waves, kind of just when it reaches a point right where we go. Okay, this is really hot, but it can be just below that. And the last kind of I think five years we've had a few La Nina years, which, for those who don't know, is pretty much when you get a strong drive of the Luhan current as a result of some external factors out in the Pacific. But pretty much it brings a lot of warm water down the coast and this has been happening consistently for the last five or so years, hence why we haven't had much of a salmon run over that time. But it's brought with it a lot of warm water fish and a lot of those have remained down, like giant herring I'm hearing from Bremer, you know a lot of these fish we've got. I've seen rankin being filmed from Augusta, saddle tail from the capes, like coral trout off Roto not things that are absolutely unheard of, but these small things are becoming more common and I think it's that consistency year in year out of a strong luin push.
Speaker 3:Having a marine heat wave, which we're currently in at the moment, is just an exacerbated push of that. It's just one year out of the rest that is particularly hot and prolonged and obviously things like that cove um. What are the other effects like, for example, the sand whiting, usually really really easy to find a patch of southern schools, really hard really really hard.
Speaker 3:The other yeah, like the whole comp was a bit of a struggle. Like we only found it because, um, I tried so many spots. We found a patch of them, but a good half of them were western school whiting and I'd say when you go out doing that, most of what you catch is Southerns. Yeah right, those Westerns are slightly more Northern distribution, so they're probably being favoured by that warm water. That's just me hazarding a guess, but there's all kinds of things. There goes the sign. That's all right, leave it down there. All good, elbow, just needed a bit of room.
Speaker 1:That's all right, mate.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I'd say there's all kinds of things happening with this marine heat wave, both good and bad. I'd say yeah the bad.
Speaker 2:What are the bad? Last it was over a decade ago now. The abalone was like the season was closed from Moore River north.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like it killed a stack of abalone. I wouldn't be able to give a figure, but I think it was northwards of 90% of abalone north of Perth.
Speaker 1:That sounds familiar to me.
Speaker 2:I think I've seen that figure. Is there a concern that something like that may happen again?
Speaker 3:It's hard to say, like it's early days, we're still in the marine heat wave, but there was a fish kill up in the Pilbara which that was big too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was thousands, it was quite large.
Speaker 3:I think it was just on a remote section of coast so it might not have got a lot of coverage, but, um, it was fairly extensive and there's a lot of your reef dwelling species, so like your coral trouts and stuff like that, which isn't great to see um.
Speaker 1:So any fish life is more important than the other, but like, obviously they're they're pretty pretty high value, yeah, yeah rec that's the word I was looking for.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, it's pretty heartbreaking to see that, but I guess that's the first symptoms of it. Hopefully, fingers crossed, it doesn't happen like it did last time 2010-11, I think it was yeah, but we'll just wait and see. As much as there's negative effects for things that can't move, the things that can in some, the things that can in some instances do benefit. So obviously we get a push of pelagics down in Perth. That, cobia, I think, is one of those.
Speaker 2:Well, scotty Coghlan reckons there was reported sighting of sailfish not far off North Mole as well. Yeah, how mental is that?
Speaker 3:That is crazy, and it doesn't surprise me the amount of scalies hanging around there, but also the? Um. The other thing is um.
Speaker 3:Even fish that don't move so much, say your jewfish, can experience really good recruitment years um to different sections of the coast when the luwin carries their offspring down there so a lot of the fish that you're seeing that there's a bit of a bit of an observation the last 10 years that, oh, there's these jewies popping up on the south coast like al Albany way, and typically that hadn't been a common thing or an overly common thing. Yeah, so a lot of that has been attributed to that push in 2010-11 is a lot of the young larval Jewfish getting pushed around the corner and settling on the south coast.
Speaker 1:This comes back to managing the fishery. You know, each individual taking a personal responsibility to not flog it, because the key here is it comes down to that particular year, and the word that you've actually explained to me over the last couple of years and not years, sorry, the last couple of weeks is recruitment and how important that is for future fish stocks. So let's say, for example I'll let you elaborate more on it if people go and give these, these deweys, a flogging now, they're not going to be there for a good amount of time because the recruitment year might not be how it was on that particular year that the luin has been pumping. Is that correct?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it changes species to species so it varies so much with the different reproductive strategies that they have. And I'll say right now I'm not a fisheries scientist, I have a background in marine biology but I'm a fisheries manager at the moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we haven't mentioned that yet. So Jase actually has a position for his nine to five. He works with fisheries pretty closely. You've clearly taken your passion for fishing and you're still a fisherman into fisheries, so just thought I'd mention that yeah, yeah, so it's.
Speaker 3:It's, yeah, been a logical progression of of fishing and wanting to stay involved in fishing and and a development of career through that.
Speaker 3:So, but it's, I've very much got my heart in the game in this one um, but it's, it's. The more I've been involved, the more I learn. And, um, I don't want I'll probably get some things wrong if I try and describe in too much detail this whole recruitment side of things. But let's take Snapper for an example. I think a lot of people have been commenting on an abundance of Snapper, and particularly up in the Gascoyne. But if you look, even down in the West Coast, here we had a pretty good year last summer. Uh, last winter, sorry for for land-based pinkies. Um, there are a lot of fish caught in that 60 to 70 centimeter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man Cracking year. Yeah, Not a lot of mates that did pretty well.
Speaker 3:I'd say that 60 to 70 centimeter bracket was a lot of the same year class of fish from a good recruitment year. So a year when, um, when spawning was actually paid off well for snapper. Snapper tend to aggregate in key areas is particularly in the west coast. So you got coburn sound there, warm bro sound to spawn, so form large numbers. They'll do that mass spawning event. If conditions are good and there's good survival of the larvae, then great. They'll have a bumper recruitment of those fish. If they put all their eggs in one basket like they do that and you have a bad year game over like that terrible recruitment year.
Speaker 3:So you get this variability and you get pulses in the population coming through and it gives the impression of a healthy stock. You go, there's fish everywhere, but they're fish often of the same age class. So what you want in the ideal theoretical population is is a good mix throughout, obviously not top heavy. So like all your fish are big and there's no young fish. That's another warning sign in itself. But you know you want a more even spread. That's not just we've only got young fish or we've only got one or two year classes representing a huge portion of the fishery.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's what people don't don't interesting, it's hard it.
Speaker 3:There's so much detail to it the deeper you dig into it and you can get so technical on this, but I think it's one of those things where, if we're good stewards about our fish and the fish we care about, we need to learn more about them and have a look at what that means for our fishing and our fishing behaviors.
Speaker 1:The days are gone of filling the freezer with Jewish. I'll go out and say it. My granddad, he tells stories. I was saying the other day that he used to go down the road from his house and catch 10 mulloway in a session. Who the fuck needs 10 mulloway in their freezer? Why would you want to freeze that many fish anyway?
Speaker 3:Why would you want?
Speaker 1:to eat a mulloway.
Speaker 3:I'm actually only ever A little one's good, I kept one.
Speaker 1:I kept one that I caught off the beach at Shark Bay just to try it. I hadn't eaten them all away yet this thing, I tried to release it. It wouldn't release. I don't know if it had something to do with the adrenaline or it was just a shit-tasting fish, but man, it was like chewing on a minty.
Speaker 2:It was pretty rough and sticky.
Speaker 1:I didn't really like it to be honest, but each to their own.
Speaker 2:Even the saltwater ones. Generally, my rule of thumb is if fish comes from the salt they're a lot better tasting. The mulloway I've eaten out of the saltwater, there's just a real fishy taste.
Speaker 1:I don't know. The northern ones are actually all right. It probably comes down to how you cook it. Really, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:The soapies are a funny one. Everyone goes, oh, soapies taste like soap. I don't reckon there's much to it. I reckon it's more like the lathering up you get when you're on the skin of that slime. It turns into that soapy kind of foam. Yeah, Because I've eaten 60 to 70 centimetre mulloway and I reckon they're the best eating size of those mulloway.
Speaker 1:That's a sweet spot.
Speaker 2:There's probably a bunch of people that are hopefully there's a bunch of people listening to this but there's probably a bunch of people out there that will say mate, mulloway are the best fish in the sea. It's their experience of going out. And this is what I think is. A fish always tastes better if you've put effort into catching it and you know, and then they look after their catch really well, or they'll have a different way of preparing it that we're not sure about and you know, if we went and sat down and ate it with them, I'm sure it would taste good. So I'm not shitting on Mulloway as an eating fish, but my experience is they aren't the best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, I've only ever eaten one and it wasn't great. I mean, I wouldn't complain If you needed some food and that's all you had. You'd eat it, no problem. I all you had, you'd eat it, no problem. I'm sure you can prepare it in a way that tastes pretty good as well.
Speaker 3:I don't often eat pinkies.
Speaker 1:Cooking skill.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like snapper fantastic eating fish. I don't know, I'm a bit of a fish snob. I've got a lot of selection at my disposal, so I'll take, yeah, yeah, yeah, Braxy Cod.
Speaker 1:King George, but pinkies the mother-in-law. Yeah, no, we go and catch pinkies, I go. I can't be bothered filling them, you guys can take them home.
Speaker 3:I just like the experience.
Speaker 2:Jeez thanks mate, you're doing your favor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, coming back to what I was saying, like you know, my granddad would take a lot of fish more than he needed and it would go to the neighbor, it would go to whoever really your friends at work. Those days are kind of gone, really, in terms of jewies. For sure you can't really be killing that many jewies like you. Look at a lump. You might sound, you know, you probably know better because you drop the cameras, but there's not hundreds of jewies down there is there in the past there has been, so I looked at some.
Speaker 3:Um, there was a fisheries paper that was written a while back that had anecdotal records from commercial fishing.
Speaker 1:What does that mean for us?
Speaker 3:It means that back in the day there were records from commercial fishing of schools of Jewies, hundreds of metres long and tens of metres high, comprised of hundreds and hundreds of fish.
Speaker 1:Blake still couldn't catch one.
Speaker 3:Well, I reckon he could you have a pretty good record.
Speaker 1:I've seen things You've had a few dewy covers on the front of that mag there, haven't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that one in particular probably wasn't the best user.
Speaker 1:Anyway, carry on.
Speaker 3:They're not typically the fish that would aggregate to spawn. Yeah, so they'll aggregate, sometimes in smaller groups pre-spawning, and then they'll pair off and go and do their thing. There's some complex social behaviours involved in that, including the large male, and some dominance behaviour going on there, but I won't touch on that because that's a deep, deep hole to go down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't ruffle any feathers, as much as we try.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's more. I just could spend about an hour talking about it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:No, it's like uh, jewies will typically be in in small packs, I guess, in our current environment, and then at different times a year, the, the sex ratios will vary in in that group. So, uh, right now, when they're in uh spawning mode, so they'll do batch spawning. Where they'll have one spawning event, they'll go and recharge. They'll have another, they'll go re-charge, uh, but they're not doing it like snapper do, where they whirlwind and they'll school up in big numbers and just broadcast spawn is the term for that. So deweys will do that pairing off behavior. And it means that often these smaller schools are controlled by a dominant male and sometimes there's one or two other males hanging around, but the rest are females. So you'll get quite female domino schools. I think from memory the ones we got in Savannahs, the majority of them were female. Yeah, they were. So that seems like a pretty common thing to happen at this time of year and then winter you tend to have a little more even keel, with those males popping up a little more regularly in catches. Yeah right.
Speaker 1:We've spoken about Jewies a lot, but let's go back to that day. It's funny, that was a sick day. We obviously ticked the Jewies off pretty early, Run us through that. What did we end up doing after that? We kind of had a pretty sick day really. Yeah well, I'll just say my experience with Jewies at the moment.
Speaker 2:Is you mentioned? There's not a lot around. I feel like the fishing is as as good as it has been in, in sort of my memory. Uh, the only thing is we've mentioned it's probably not as many big fish as what we used to get. Um, I'd probably, a decade ago, went through a run where we would go out and we would easily get to 12 plus kilo fish. Um, every every time we went out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 2:My record recently is pretty low. But I'm also going out and my cultural shift in how I fish from has probably changed a little bit as well, because I'll go out and I'll just keep the first ones, put them straight in the icebox and move on. So maybe it's a little bit of that that's changed with me, where we're not getting as many big fish. But basically we just went out for a good day's fishing. We wanted to try and mix it up a little bit, but the first target was to go out and get a couple of demersals on the board, and we actually took it quite slow to begin with, didn't we? Because we had some cameras out there and we're like, oh, we'll do a little bit of filming, and went to the first spot and basically dropped down straight onto some deweys and it was.
Speaker 3:You know what they're like when you drop a jig in their face.
Speaker 2:It was straight on, wasn't? It, it was like one of those days where it was like you barely even get a wind on.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And straight up and we talk about farming, when you have one of those days and there's four fish to be caught on the boat and we sort of thought, oh, we'll get ourselves a feed, we'll catch our four deweys, so we'll move spots though.
Speaker 3:So I don't really want to smoke the one spot. Yeah, thought of mursels is important to say, but I mean, when you've got dewey spots like that, it's not unrealistic to say four deweys yeah, but yeah, whether that's baldies and break and stuff, I would have been happy. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Hey, they're just as good, if not better, I would have been more happy with Balching Roper, because they're my wife's favourite fish as well. So if I can take one of those home, I'm in the good books. But that was the thing is, we pulled a fish off, I think the first lump, which is about 30 metres, maybe just over 35 metres, I think it was. So we thought, oh, it's nice weather, we'll move spots and see if we can get something else or something different or another one off, another spot. And then, sure enough, it was.
Speaker 1:That was the big one that I lost, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that first one, my deep liner's still in his mouth, is it? I went a little bit too.
Speaker 1:I've made a habit of losing deep liners mate the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 3:Not the jig you want to be losing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've lost a couple of them, but yeah, I lost a big one on one of Jase's jigs that he lent me.
Speaker 3:That's now donated to the Jewy population. I want a bit of Jewy.
Speaker 1:I was able to redeem myself.
Speaker 2:And basically Got a good little healthy one.
Speaker 1:And we had a little conversation the other day after talking to Whitey about one of your deep liner jigs that we think might have got snipped off by a mackerel as well, yeah, so we actually ended up going, you know, for another trip a couple of weeks later and dropped another deep liner that I just bought from Complete and first drop of the day. Man, I'm like, yeah, gone tight, sunk the hooks into it and snipped gone.
Speaker 3:I need to stop taking expensive jigs to the Savannies because you don't need them. I've done it in the past inexpensive jigs to the savannies because you don't need them. I've done it in the past. I've been snipped on hay, ollies and now deep liners and it's like sometimes you go trips there and you fish a couple of days or whatever, and you don't lose a single jig and you go great. But nowadays there's sharks there, there's Mackies there.
Speaker 1:That's what Whitey was alluding to was the Mackies and kind of how. You probably recall the conversation a little bit better than I do, but what was Whitey saying?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, he's found a couple of spots where he's dropped down for demersals, and they just kept getting snipped off. So eventually they landed a couple of Mackies and then they realized, oh, hang on a second.
Speaker 1:There's a fishery here for jigging for pelagics.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I'm going to have to listen to his podcast now and see what he's got to say about that, see what he's got to say about that boat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's found some great fisheries off that sort of Durian Bay area. Anyway, it was one of those days where everything was aligning, so it didn't take us long to get our demersals, and then we moved inshore, went for a swim.
Speaker 3:And started seeing herring everywhere while I was swimming and I was going. Oh, I need to get back to the boat.
Speaker 2:I don't think I've seen someone swim quicker back to the boat and grab a rod.
Speaker 3:I swam because you had my rod on your boat, on the support boat. So I swam over to that boat, grabbed the rod and backstroked back to the other boat, holding the rod out of the water, and then got the micro jig on and started casting around and pretty soon we found a bulk heap of herring. That was the funnest part of the day. It was just the amount of herring.
Speaker 2:I was going to say's, so that's a highlight for me of of that day right, and which is really what we talk about now. When it comes to to fishing, it's like being able to change it up and target all these different species, and if you had stayed out in the deep blue, um, it's sort of stuff that you would never see. But we're casting these small lures in around the, the reef and literally saying 20 or 30 herring, just come pouring out Even more.
Speaker 1:Mate, I think you're underselling that. It was about 50 at times there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, it's a shitload and they were keen, like we were skipping the lure out of the water as fast as we could wind, and they were getting a little bit aerial on it, the way that salmon do when you get into a school of them.
Speaker 1:We were trying to get photos of them right, big zoom lens trying to get them jumping out of the water, like because they're such a small fish.
Speaker 2:It was actually quite hard for me to nail a shot, but it's sick day, oh yeah, like we moved into taylor after taylor, then we moved into taylor and then it's sort of we, yeah, we went and pulled the ocky pots, as we mentioned, and for me it's like gone are the days of someone being oh, he's a gun fisherman and he can just go out there and target one species and come back in with a big one. It's like now I look at fish shows and it's like if they're the sort of angler that can go out there and they can say you know what? I'm going to go get a yellowtail kingfish today, or I'm going to get a Samson fish, or I'm going to get a flathead, and they can do it all. That's a good fisherman. That's a good fisherman.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree 100%. Even if I look at my own fishing, that's what I strive to be. It's a work in progress and it's why fishing is such a never-ending journey. You're goal-setting throughout the whole process. There's no end to it. You're always learning. You're always getting better. There's always new fish to catch in new ways, like Sam's Fish on Fly. Who does that?
Speaker 1:No one, yeah, no one does that in 30 metres. Craig Radford pioneered.
Speaker 2:that I'm pretty sure I will mention on that fishing trip we did have Scotty Watson what a legend mate On the other boat and this bloke is a character right. So I've done a lot of fishing with Scotty. He was and your family.
Speaker 1:I know Scotty well. Yeah, we're connected through long story, complicated little web, but I've known Scotty for a long time and his family.
Speaker 2:Through the family, and I'll tell a quick story about him. I'd love to have a chat to him. I don't know how he would go on a podcast, but I reckon he'd be epic.
Speaker 1:A couple of beers. A couple of beers, he'd be good.
Speaker 2:He's funny for years and I'll go to Savannies and Scotty lives up there, so if no one was around or whatever he was keen, I'd hit him up. Scotty, you want to go fishing? Yep, always. So he became someone I could rely on. So I remember going fishing with him one day and we tried for inshore pink snapper and it was rough as guts and we bled, got nothing, but we fished pretty hard and then it was like all right, we'll make a plan, we're going tomorrow, we're going out and we're going to try and get ourselves a couple of demersals and the weather forecast wasn't that great. Anyway, we were heading out the south passage and I remember just being massive swell huge sea breeze.
Speaker 1:That's not a passage you want to take in massive swell.
Speaker 2:I could meet my maker here and I was in my little 599 polycraft and getting wet and I remember thinking to myself this is this fucked. I'm about to turn to scotty and say mate, what do you reckon?
Speaker 2:let's just turn around and go in when I you know and just as I've looked at him to open my mouth, I get like this big hand on my shoulder and I was like it took me back and I flinched and then he just like it's like he's looking out to sea and he just goes, take a look around like, and I sort of looked at him. He goes no boys out here, just men it was like a grand final speech.
Speaker 1:he goes no boys out, just men it was like a grand final speech.
Speaker 2:He goes no boys out here, just men. Have a look around. He's like this is when God comes into play.
Speaker 3:This is when we get rewarded. I really hope he doesn't at our spot.
Speaker 2:This is when we get rewarded for all the hard work we did yesterday, we'll get them. First spot, we'll get them. And I was like, yeah, how did you go First?
Speaker 1:spot, we'll get him.
Speaker 2:first spot we'll get him and I was like yeah, how'd you go, did you?
Speaker 1:get fish first spot.
Speaker 2:We got our fish and I just turned around and looked at him. I was like let's go in and he was like yeah, it's bloody shit out here let's go in.
Speaker 1:So he was feeling the same. I think we've needed the bump up speech himself more but anyway that's a little bit about wrap up. You've, uh you've got some quick fire questions to shoot at jace though like every other guest man. So this is. We do not need a complicated uh answer here, man, it's just bang straight at the point. First thing that comes to mind.
Speaker 2:So far away, all right, so top three eating fish.
Speaker 3:Uh king george break seed cod, coral trout he's thought about that Daiwa or Shimano.
Speaker 2:This is a new one Shimano.
Speaker 3:Shimano most things Light tackle rods, Daiwa, there we go. So Daiwa or Shimano.
Speaker 2:Oceans, I guess All right.
Speaker 3:One lure for the rest of your life. Are we talking jig or hard body?
Speaker 2:casting One lure, one lure, one style of fishing. You just got to pick one lure Cam Like hard body casting lure.
Speaker 3:One lure, one style of fishing. You just got to pick one lure Camzen Zip. Bait Camzen tiny.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, you've brain. The flatties brim everything on them. The little red one's your favorite, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2:I'll have to see them. I don't know if I know those ones. All right.
Speaker 3:I mean, I should have chosen a twisty, really there Awesome for rainbow trout. Yeah, yeah, all right, best boat snack I don't eat on the boat, I'll come back and I'll be just starving. Mostly it'll be whatever. I don't even know. Shapes are probably a good one, shapes.
Speaker 1:Barbecue choice.
Speaker 3:I don't know, just whatever I find in the pantry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll raid the pantry and just go. I'm going to chuck in Some sort of biscuit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, just like-.
Speaker 2:Something dry and stuff I'd say maybe chicken crimpy if I had to pick one. No, we disagree there. Barbecue man.
Speaker 3:Bucket list. It all ends up tasting like fish anyway.
Speaker 2:Bucket list destination Fishing.
Speaker 3:That's a tough one. I've got a lot of places I'd love to go. The next kind of destination I want to go and try is the Rollies.
Speaker 1:I want to go and fish out the Rollies.
Speaker 2:But I mean internationally.
Speaker 3:There's so many places I could list.
Speaker 2:Yeah, rollies is a good choice If you could have a beer or dinner with any fisho, dead or alive. Who is it?
Speaker 3:These are meant to be quick for us to think about these.
Speaker 2:That's all right. Yeah, it's a bit of a thought.
Speaker 3:I reckon I could go and talk a while with Scotty Scotty. Coghlan's a good one, but Ross Cusack would be one from back in the day. Mate, I'm with you on that one.
Speaker 1:Eh, have you read his book Hooks?
Speaker 3:for.
Speaker 1:Life. Yeah, I'm in the middle of reading that now, but I'm a bloody slow reader and a little bit dyslexic, so it's taken me a little while to get through. But I've actually got his Fishing in the Wild West book.
Speaker 3:I saw it there. I've got a copy as well, yeah unreal.
Speaker 1:I'd love to get Kiwi on the podcast. Is he still around?
Speaker 3:I'm not sure. I only know him by reputation. That's good, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:No offence.
Speaker 2:Kiwi, if you're listening, yeah one. Any advice for a?
Speaker 3:young fisherman. Uh, don't be scared to ask questions, like at all. Um, there's three things that go into learning about fishing quickly. One thing is going and asking questions to do the research from people who know what they're doing. The second is doing research yourself, reading um, watching videos, picking up as much of that information. And the third is the only thing you can't go and do from the living room or at your tackle store is going out fishing and finding the patterns yourself. They're the three things that go into it and the the bit that varies between people is that experience thing and and what people make a various situation. So you got a bit to be a good fisherman. You got to be thinking, love, thinking, love it.
Speaker 1:Sick man. That was a banger chat. Man Dropped some knowledge bombs there. It was sick to have somebody from your background with a science perspective too, man, so appreciate you coming in man.
Speaker 3:Oh, can I fire a question back real quick Shit yeah, you can. Before you close up, most traumatizing lost fish Rothy, oh you've set me up here haven't you.
Speaker 1:Man, I hooked a pretty big mullet last year, Actually, yeah, last year. Now in 2025. I was actually on the boat with Sammy Smith a fellow complete angler alumni.
Speaker 1:He is a gun, wicked mullet fisherman and what a legend that bloke is. But we were out fishing a well-known spot. You've been there with me as well and I've just got a brand new combo. I think I said this to Leck the other day maybe, and I've hooked up to this mullet. I've seen it on my side scan doing the standard vortex thing that they do when they're starting to congregate and sunk the hook into this thing. I reckon I felt it beat its tail, maybe like three times. It bowed the head to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you know how the rod does the little before it starts, yeah, you know going off and I felt it just run into these um this structure and ding, ding, ding, ding, ding gone. I've fished on that 16 poundpound leader and 20-pound braid.
Speaker 3:It ran me all the way through. Credit to the braid I was using. I just loose, dragged, drove around and around and around, got the fish out.
Speaker 1:No way, that's exactly what I was using, bro P1 20-pound J-braid Expedition and 16-pound J-thread leader.
Speaker 3:So next time use Suffix 832,.
Speaker 1:mate there we go All right, that stuff is the toughest braid going around, sick. It's a big mullet for me.
Speaker 2:My worst.
Speaker 3:Most traumatizing lost fish.
Speaker 2:Most traumatizing is I reckon it was well over a metre 15 barramundi.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:I looked at the leader just before I cast out that live bait because I'd just landed a big fish and I've told Rothy this story and I asked my mate, what do you reckon? And he said, no, that'll be all right, throw it out. So, nath rob, you owe me a meter 20 barra mundi, mate.
Speaker 3:so it was up. Yeah, you let him talk.
Speaker 2:You knew it, but yeah, I know but it was one of those moments and it was like we've said. It was my my own mistake and it was because the bite was so hot and I'd landed multiple fish on it and it was only 60 pound um leader and it's just like I wasn't thinking I was going to get a big fish on the next one and I fought it to five meters from me and it's it would have been my biggest barra to to this point.
Speaker 3:So it's just a lesson yeah, you're just like a lesson of just nothing, like a lost fish. To teach you a lesson, mate I?
Speaker 1:probably would have been good with that mullet that I lost, Like probably. You know, you never know how big that fish was, but having Sammy on the boat with me, who knows?
Speaker 3:mullet. He's caught hundreds of them. He's the ultimate hype man. He put me on to my first one in the swan.
Speaker 1:There you go, mullies in the swamp, and he looked at me and he goes. I could see it in his face that he was devo for me. He goes big.
Speaker 3:I fucking feel sick for you, rothy, that was a huge fit, and I was just like I, I'd had to sit there, like I was like.
Speaker 1:You know that, those memes you see where pablo escobar's standing in his pool yeah, yeah, like just thinking about his life. That was me just sitting there like hello darkness, my old friend. I was just off it, but anyway sick way to wrap it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mate, appreciate you coming in. We'd love to get you in more and more, especially when there's some topical um stuff around. When it comes to fishing, I know that you've got plenty more knowledge than you just gave us um, but it was wicked yeah, man we'll tap in.
Speaker 3:Thanks boys. No, no, pleasure to be on all right have a good one yeah, see ya.
