Ep 66: Life changing decisions

The PickMaster General tested the panel by asking them to list their top 3 life changing decisions. Martin has the most choices to sift through, Gareth is a contingency planner so making big decisions is not an alien concept, whereas "laid back" Andy takes his time over even the smallest of decisions. Find out what the panel eventually chose as their biggest life decisions.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Three men with three decades of separation debate three tough choices every week. This is the Pick Three Show. Welcome back to another episode of the Pick Three Show, where every week our expert panel wrestle with selecting their top three choices in respect of any subject sent down from the PMG's office. With three decades of separation between the panelists, there is a clear divergence in cognitive processes and identifying collegiate solutions. In other words, we rarely agree. This week the PMG has tasked the panel with selecting their top three decisions that changed their lives. PMG specifically stated that we were to ignore the getting married having kids decision, as in their words, that might just get dull. Also, it eliminates the fear for Gareth and Andy that they have experienced in other episodes when they don't remember to mention their families.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

You just knew that, then you just knew it was coming.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

With those parameters set, this is by no means an easy exercise for Martin, who has over 65 years of decision making to review. Gareth loves the research, so he has probably checked through the highlights of his own Hello, I'm Gareth public access database. And Andy, on the other hand, is already rethinking his recent mistakes, which include not bringing the team coffee, his new haircut, and revealing too much information to Martin. To enable the panel to ponder their life-changing decisions, PMG has booked a session for each panel member at the QUB psychology department. And so we are recording today's episode inside the reception area as we await being called for our various appointments. So, gentlemen, are you nervous about today's examination of your life choices?

SPEAKER_04 2:11

Oh no, I have to say, I've gonna be back to Queens. It's a great building, isn't it? Lovely building it's a lovely building.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

I never studied here. No, I did.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

Did you should not get in now?

SPEAKER_03 2:21

No, I went over to Newcastle. Better place. That was almost one of my picks, actually.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Ulster Polytechnic for me.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

No, I was there as well, but then I also then got into Queens as well. What were you at the Polytechnic for? No, I was at the at my whenever I was there, I was at the University of Ulster. Actually, I have a different time for you. I was there and did my accountancy degree there and then did my master's at accountancy degree.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

I started doing accountancy at the uh Ulster Polytechnic was where I started doing it. Yes, I did what was at the time What do you mean you started doing it? FE1.

SPEAKER_04 2:50

Did you have to do the you had downgrade to be that surveyor?

SPEAKER_01 2:54

I do the end of at the end of my year doing FE1, myself and accountancy had a parting of the ways.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

So then you become the surveyor as what do you like best? Chips, beans, or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Or no sort of thing. Listen, it's fine. But do you know what we used to do when we were out surveying on the streets? If somebody came towards us with a skippy walk, we let them go on by because we we thought they were maybe just a bit, you know.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

But it's good to be back.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

By the way, I was mugged once with a guy in a grifter, but I caught him just slightly uphill. Walked after him? Yeah, walked after him, couldn't get up the hill.

SPEAKER_04 3:32

Actually, in my in my past career, I did a a good bit of work in the with the psychology department. So I did. Well, you were a weekend conference. No, I wasn't. No, but I did it, I know work on it that I I engaged them to do research for me. The psychology of spending.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

What was the or there was different types of people got into it? People who had got me brought up, you know, with a tight household and then they were set free and got debt, or people who got brought up in a very luxury household like Martin, where money was no object, then they just continued at all.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Okay, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Or the the people who just look after their money for generations and therefore can go forward with it.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

And I agree that and they were the ones who didn't get into debt, the people who looked after their money.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

So interesting. It's what papa always said to me. Be a lender son rather than a borrower.

SPEAKER_04 4:23

I I was listening to one of our uh podcasts on small luxuries, and he used the word papa, and I was cutting along and killed myself laughing. Oh no, what was it? Papa I can't remember what the thing was, but it was papa and and mama. I used to go to bed early or something.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

How did you find this one? Easy. I don't know. I was sort of some tough, some easy in between a bit.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

I never had younger. And I never find decision making any problems. Life-changing was the thing that I sort of snuggled with. It's my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

So, Gareth, what is your first life-changing decision that you wish to share?

SPEAKER_04 5:02

Don't forget the topic was decisions that changed your life. Yeah. Not life-changing decisions. Okay, we bit similar, but there is, and a reason why I say that.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

That's a very, very good point. So you you'd like that amended.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

Okay, so number three decision was walking into Lisbon Leisure Centre and asking someone, what is that game they are playing?

SPEAKER_01 5:30

We're not in the pickleball story again. Listeners, if you've been with us from the start, Gareth plays pickleball.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Yeah, it is. But I'm just saying that I have loved sport throughout my whole life. Played competitively, football, rugby, cricket, athletic, table tennis, which I uh I remembered, and I at all different levels, but I have found a sport that gives me everything. Competition. I have made the best of friends through pickleball. That every night and every match I have, we are laughing, having the crack more than any other sport I've played.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

And he neither of us play pickleball, so that means we're not in that friendship.

SPEAKER_04 6:13

No, no, no, but but you but you're you're you're gonna go with pickleball. Don't forget you're putting a pickleball court at the house.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Uh where of a Well, it's actually in one of the barns.

SPEAKER_04 6:21

Yeah, yeah, true. Where I've had a sense of accomplishment and ultimately success and one good stuff, but it but the truth is it's the social side. Never have I enjoyed playing sports with three other people and I haven't fun, and I cannot wait to play it every day.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

So would you say when you first played it straight away from day one, you're like, I'm hooked to this? Once I played doubles, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Uh uh the most addictive sport that I would do anything not to miss as you know whenever I finish this podcast, I'm away. I even have we packed lunch with me today to get there in time.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Well, that's assuming that uh Dr. Susan lets you out for the next session and she doesn't I could be short and sweet.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

She doesn't refer you for further treatments, but probably severely messed up he is.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

I um I'll give you a laugh. I remember seeing one of the guys play golf with Lewis. I was like, Oh, Garcy does the podcast with us, it's big into pickup ball. And this was last year, he goes, Oh yeah. He goes, I love it. He says, I didn't think I would love it, but now I'm spending Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesdays. Anytime there's a game going, I'll just turn up. I know. He says, I don't know the people, but after a game, they're going, Do you want to play next week?

SPEAKER_04 7:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

So I I get that sort of community element of the thing.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

The community and social side is the most important thing about it for me.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

It is the fastest growing geriatric sport in the world.

SPEAKER_04 7:43

It's not geriatric anymore. Tell me what's not. It's the fastest growing sport in the world. You play in the seniors. I play in the seniors, but there's no.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Well, I know it's 18 plus, but then you play in the super seniors. No, I play in the seniors. And what's the seniors?

SPEAKER_04 7:58

Over 50 plus. Sorry, it's it's the mid-seniors, 50 plus, then there's 60 plus, there's 70 plus, and um 75 plus there's seniors, super seniors, seriously super seniors, and and you're about to take it up, so I wouldn't go too far because you'll be eating humble pie very soon.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

Do you are pie? I like apple pie, but I've never been keen and humble. Uneducated listeners who go, is that that paddle thing? What's the difference?

SPEAKER_04 8:24

No, the paddle is the one which bounces off the walls, which is a bit of squash in that. The pickleball is more like tennis with a plastic ball and plastic paddles, but uh a lot more skillful.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

And older players.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

A lot more skillful.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Good? Okay, I think there's hardly a listener who's been with us this far in the podcast who is unaware that pickleball will regularly get a mention. So uh pickleball it is.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Andy, well, number three to me is moving home from London when I was 22.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

I lived in London after university, thinking the streets for about six months by the science things because you went to university at 18 and you moved home at 22, and university was like three or four years.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

I was quite young. I was eight, I was just turned 18 in June, and I was moved to Newcastle a couple of months later. But London to me was streets and paved with gold, everyone it was incredible going down, that's great. See after month one. Oh I like I look back now, I have friends of mine who go, Oh, the kids are living in London. I'm like, I feel sorry for them. My my whole thing with it, and it's much more just to leave in London, it's actually sometimes realizing you need to sort of move away to realise how good things are back here in Northern Ireland. Like I I was I was saying this to my dad recently, our Sunday afternoon, we'd be sitting there, me and my brother in the house, we maybe want to go out and play football. My dad would go, Oh, we're going for a run down the coast. We get in the car, they drive down the Ourds Peninsula, me and my brother would be, oh, what a waste. You would get so used to seeing this stunning scenery, and then I moved to Newcastle where I probably didn't see a tree for about two years. Yeah, moved to London, even worse. Came back here and went, actually, this is quite good.

SPEAKER_04 10:08

I I have had this conversation with quite a few people recently, you know, people like Luke Skywalker, the no nothing at that, or Chris Waugh, who originally lived in Australia but lives here now. And Chris would say, This is the best country in the world. You have everything, golf courses, greenery, you can get from A to B quickly, all those various things. The grass is never greener on the other side. Look in in business life, we could have easily and we did to have offices in different you know, in parts of England, but we never wanted to want to always come back here.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

100%. And for me, coming back here and realizing being away for four or five years, coming back here and going, it's actually really good here. Yeah, and actually, I needed that to move away from a life changing decision. I probably would have gone, what if? Yeah, what if? And I think that age coming back. I think I've a lot of friends of mine have kids who are finishing university and doing it, and I'm like, guarantee they'll be back at some point. Yeah, and I think even more so now that's work from home culture. A lot of people are there.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

What tempted Nicole to come and live in uh Northern Ireland as opposed to France?

SPEAKER_03 11:16

What was it drew her to Northern Ireland? I think it was those Reno ads, the royalties, you could retire back here.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah, somewhere that yeah, okay. It's just I'm intrigued why people move.

SPEAKER_04 11:27

I've been very lucky my three kids have all gone to or university or gone to university or gone to university here and have no desire to go. But my eldest daughter, she went to Liverpool University for a week. And thankfully she came back because I I just it wouldn't have been as good without her being away. I would have really missed her, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

What do we mean? And there's a little sadness there.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

What were your boys, Martin? Did they they studied here and stayed here? Did they go?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Uh they both studied here. Mark then did a year out in New Zealand. And Johnny and his uh wife, now wife Kirsty, they did uh two years after they qualified as doctors, they did two years out in Australia. Nice before they came back, but everybody's back here now, yeah. And they don't have any plans to move away? No, and in fact, one of the things we genuinely said to uh all of them at a point in time was if you have a better life opportunity, going away, do not come back just for us. Yeah, don't come back, but they wanted to come back to be friends and family and various things are are here. Plus, they've they've worked out having been further afield, that yeah, there are some real advantages and there are some real disadvantages, and one of them is the lack of community, the lack of the people you've grown up with, etc. etc. So it does make a difference.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

No, I agree. So, yeah, moving back to all the years, Martin?

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Very simply buying our company from Abbey National in January 1994. We had been a private practice sold to Abbey National in 1988, and by 1994, I was or at the end of 93, I was fairly dissatisfied with working for a PLC and was about to head out on my own with a couple of guys, and then we decided we'd have a puppet at buying it back and a management buyout, and we were uh successful in doing that. Absolutely the best decision to actually go ahead. It gave me the freedom to run the practice the way we wanted to. We didn't have corporate reporting, we didn't have stuff like that. We just had to satisfy our own business ideals, and we were independent. And actually being independent is a huge plus uh in certainly in certainly in advisory businesses because you are not in the control of other interests that may have conflicts with some of your local clients. So, from my point of view, buying that out, and now it was a risk at the time. Yeah, you you go in and we borrowed the money, everybody's house was up against the loan and and stuff like that. But uh no, we ran it and um I ran it for well until I officially finally retired in uh 20, I think it was it, 2022, and then finally stepping out from as a consultancy last year. So I mean those sorts of things, you know, you make that decision, you can be a paid employee and or you can take the risk and go on your own. And with my favourite story being somebody telling me it's great if you're in your own business, you only have to work two-thirds of every day. Oh, and it turns out true, any 16 hours works.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

Well, yeah, that's true. Which is Do you ever think, Martin, what would have happened if you hadn't have done that and you had stayed within the the big PLC? I'd have probably been running it, the whole PLC.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

It took a while for you boys to get there. That level of arrogance just talks back. The reality is probably I wouldn't have stayed in the organization after a while. I I just wasn't enjoying that side of it. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

It's a good question because you know, everything we talk about here, there is the sliding doors, you know, the film moment or whatever, where we could have been here, there, whatever. And that's a good question to ask Martin there. And I think all of our decisions here have a sliding doors moment on it, and how we ended up on it. But the truth is, and I think that's a very good thing about Northern Ireland people, Northern Ireland people don't look back, they always look forward. And I've always I remember one time I always which will come to one of my choices, I had regrets. I don't have any regrets now in my life, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

So cool, you're lucky.

SPEAKER_04 15:44

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

No regrets at all in your life. No Andy, could you say that with uh a straight face?

SPEAKER_03 15:51

Don't know, actually. It's a good question. Yeah, I can't off the top of my head think of anything that I think I should have done differently at this point.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

I do. I have several regrets. I have regrets at high at certain times because of my personality and the fact that I'm quite fixed in the way I like things to go, that it cost me friendships at various points in time. So I I would be and I made business decisions, I believed, for the right reasons, but some of them cost me cost me friendships.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

I thought you were referring to the non-drinker discount, you imagine.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

No, no, no, that's somehow that those friendships survived. But uh anyway, but no, but but there is a serious point to it that if you make decisions that you believe are right for the right reasons and other people want to make other decisions for different reasons, which tend to be more personal rather than for the the wider good on certain things. Um that cost me several friendships.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

Yeah, okay. I I've not I've used to think I had one, but whenever I come to one of my choices, you'll understand why.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

Okay, number jump on your number two. Oh, number two. Yeah, you're first. Glad I'm paying attention here. Um my number two is similar in a way to your number three, it is playing golf again. Yeah, taking up golf again. Uh Lily was born in September 2015, and I hadn't played golf probably for about 15 years, maybe 17 years actually, since I left Northern Ireland and went to Newcastle. When I came back, I was like, I can't be bothered. Saturday morning, it's getting up at seven o'clock. What's the what's the beauty of that? Then Lily was born, and I got into a habit of because I was working a lot and at home with a baby, I was sort of and this sounds really selfish. I was like, I need I need that sort of what's it called? People say third space now, yeah. So it's not just home and work, it's actually something else. So I rejoined Carnelly Golf Club where I grew up and actually reconnected. You actually grew up at the golf club. Pretty much every every summer day. That's why my golf game's so good.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

To be honest, I was amazed last year. Your silky swing is is something to behold.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

Yeah, we'll say it was unexpected. We'll say return return leg this uh summer. But but actually, back to your point about the community aspect, like golf is a sport we all know it's it's four or five hours you can walk around, but it's just the people. And I look over the last probably ten years, having that regular sort of Saturday morning and actually just getting out after your week goes, it's just incredible. So life-changing, probably yes, in the ref in the fact that it gives me those four or five hours a week just to switch off from stuff and have the crack.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Yeah. No, I mean, like it was very I nearly was number four. Was this podcast? The ability I like a lot of my stuff is I I love the social aspect of it.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

So we came in at number four, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

Number four.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

I think I was I I take it as a positive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

I love the way you do that. You take it as a positive. Me, it's a personal smell.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

But but but I think you know that you know the sport, the social side, it's the social side of it more. One question Has it been heightened by WhatsApp and groups chats? I think yes. I say yes as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

I just think it gives been heightened.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

The ex the sport in a group experience or sport in a team experience. So, for example, I I'll give uh pickleball as I will. I like I'm in a group chat with you know the boys that I play with and we discuss the previous games and we slag each other off and that type of change.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

It's a group called the Picklers or something.

SPEAKER_04 19:23

It's called the it used to be called the S M Club so those initials of two people, but it's the G and S appreciation society or something, I don't know what it is now, but but you know, because you can go and play the game and then you can have even more crack about it afterwards. Previously it was finished that day. Yeah, no, that's a really good way to look at it, actually.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

I think it probably has heightened it. What's your thoughts, Martin?

SPEAKER_01 19:49

I ran for 35 years and it still exists, but it's just not as active just in the last two years, the Renegade Players Tour. Yeah. And that was our golf society, and it has enabled me to tour all over the world playing golf with my mates, and we've set up a whole range of adventures that have taken us to play right across the globe, and it has been fantastic. And we did all of that obviously pre-WhatsApp and various other things. Starting WhatsApp made it very easy thereafter to communicate, which in the early days it was much trickier. It literally was it, email phone around email in the early days or just the previous week saying we are playing there next week at this time. And you know, please let us know if you're not turning up so we can work out the numbers. But you're absolutely right. I think groups of blokes in particular aren't sometimes very good at understanding the value of those sort of group friendships and the fact that there is an impact. And we we joke about this sometimes being therapy, and we're here at QUB and the psychology, we're about to all get examined to see what they they actually think of this. But I do regard this as a very useful tool to talk about a range of subjects in a way that both entertains us, hopefully entertains the listeners, but also lets us there's a lot of shared experiences come out of this.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

But even our group chat that we have between the three of us, it means the experience doesn't finish the minute we walk out of this.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

I if it's not an AI-generated frog say that's all on a weekend from Martin, it's not a weekend of it.

SPEAKER_04 21:22

No, exactly. Yeah, but I think that group chat has really heightened the enjoyment of those sports or the things that we do.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Absolutely. And listeners, just so that you know, there's a certain ganging up goes on with Gareth and Andy who tried to slag me off. I'll suddenly pick up my phone and there'll be twelve messages. The first one will be a question, and the next eleven will be some level of increasing slagging of me in some way.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

I mean the answering of the question four morrow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

We're agreed we're sorted, not yet.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

But uh but there you go. No, I I do think it is it is very useful.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

And so my number two, and just to get in before you two, my number One choice would have been my children and my partner. So it would have been Angela. So I'm just telling getting that in first before you two because he done us up like a kipper before.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

I didn't do you up like a kipper. You boys did yourselves up like a kipper.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

Okay, my number two retiring at 45 years old. I got very lucky and I got the opportunity to step out at 45. Still do a bit a few direct ships, whatever, to keep going. I could have gone on and furthered my career, furthered wealth, that type of stuff. But I did a calculation that stage that I thought that I had enough for the family and myself to get to the end, whatever. Not you know, you can live. What date is that? I don't know. So this final destination. 120. But I'd done the calculation and the return center and that type of stuff to do it. And you could have gone on and had you know complete extra lifestyle creep, whatever. But I thought, you know, I've worked hard, 13 years old. I was picking strawberries for, I put this down six p a punnet of strawberries, fiver for two days work. I was getting, I worked in bar, yeah, all that type of stuff. And I just thought that was a time. And people say to me now, Oh, do you not have something that motivates you? Or do you not miss your brain being done? And I say, every single day is beep fantastic. Every single day, every single minute of every day is brilliant, and it was the best decision I have ever made. I don't need that work thing to motivate me, and I've got bits and pieces that I do. That's enough. I have things like this that I that I love.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

For our listeners, had you planned a decision for a few years going to want the retirement, or did the opportunity come up go interestingly.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

Remember you and I went to uh thing where a guy, Floyd Rode would row, SES guy, said your North Star. And I had put down I mean North Star was to retire to test myself and other things, whatever. And I believe only I wrote that down as my North Star, I achieved that within two years. All those various things that was it done.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

I was very good at.

SPEAKER_04 24:25

And look at look at the enjoyment now. Like, you know, be to be able to sit here this morning every Wednesday and record and have the crack and all that type of stuff, I think has been completely life-changing.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

Do you think if you had a stayed in industry and you didn't sort of get like involved in things like pickleball, you would enjoy it as much?

SPEAKER_04 24:45

I think we always have to get involved in anything. And I think Martin, you'll you'll probably come in on this as well. Even though you retire, you don't stop and sit on a chair all day. It's there's lots of more enjoyable things to do.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Yeah, obviously, I didn't retire at 45 because I'm not lazy.

SPEAKER_04 25:03

And uh listeners uh let me tell you, I burn more calories than two or three days of you every day.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

That may well be true, but no, I viewed retirement as the opportunity to change and challenge myself in very different ways. Which I've done. And no, I agree. I I mean again, that was just just a gag listeners, but it was too easy. Um for me, what I do now is I still work pretty much as many hours as I was working, but I work on a whole range of things that interest me. Yeah, yeah. And not just to make money, they're not now, it's not focused on the business and making money for the business. And you will have felt this as well at the point in time when you were running the business. You're not running the business just for you, you're running to pay the mortgages of everybody that works for you, etc. etc. So you carry a certain amount of strain and pressure. Yeah. Whereas now, for the first time, um, I feel very much that I'm working really for myself to actually the things that interest me. And yes, I do a certain amount of consultancy stuff, but I do an awful lot of stuff with uh whether it's an Odyssey or whether it's church related or whether it's school related. I do a lot of those things because they challenge me and they interest me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Yeah, well, I still do, you know, not exactly. No, I know you do, and that's why I I am. I don't want too much challenges on it, I like the enjoyment of it as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Maybe I'm slightly different in that I do like the challenges and I do like putting myself and one of my New Year's resolutions, if you remember, gentlemen, was to seek discomfort.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

And seeking discomfort means every so often you take on challenges that you're not quite sure if you've got the capability to fulfil, but you want to challenge yourself to try. And we joke about doing the podcast and all the rest of it, but as I said, that was came up as a that was a challenge to me to cover the technological bits of doing a podcast. But then I wasn't sure how long it would last because it depends whether you have any content to go with it, and so I find all of this now very entertaining because we do it and you know it's a part of it, but I still like the intellectual challenge of producing every episode, yeah, which I'd like to point out, listeners. I do.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

We often say never days, Fears, how impressed we are with his memory detail is quick wit.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Yeah, oh no, no, no, that's just dangerous.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Yeah, we've often said that we have never to compliment them.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

Yeah, we're no I don't want to be as sharp as you at your age now, so that's like I'd like to be like that to you. Well, I think if I'm 70 years old, I think you've got to be just if you keep going as well.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

So anyway, my number two choice was opening the door, although it was with uh my lovely wife also opened the door, so she can blame for this one as well. We opened the door to two good friends of ours, uh Sue and John, um, after they came around to the house and said uh we've had an idea, and that idea was 20 years ago and led to us creating the band in church and a whole pile of other things that have led to my involvement and community involvement with people and making me care about stuff I didn't know I cared about. And so those decisions, whereas I've always joked with John and Sue thereafter, if I'd just lain on the floor, pretended we were out, I wouldn't have had to do this, this, this, this, this, and all the rest. Now, they were the very good friends who persuaded us to go on the Camino and put ourselves through the very hot pain from last summer. But looking back on it, you don't remember the pain, you remember all of the actual bits about it that were very uplifting, etc. etc. So again, the decision to open the door and talk to people about their ideas was actually very beneficial to me at that point in time, and they're just such solid people that you actually you know you enjoy the challenges they throw your way. So taking a very traditional church to add modern music to it and put a band into place and all the rest of it, I like that challenge.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

So actually opening the door to those opportunities, and I mean, in a lesser way, as we we we joke about you two came forward with this idea for this show. No, but it would have been easy to say, yeah, it's not a bad idea, but I'm not gonna do it. But the reality is the fun we've had doing it. So sometimes just opening the door is the best decision to say, Yeah, I actually I I really like that. Give it a go. Give it a go big important thing and and challenge yourself. And this is this thing of as we talk a lot about how you stay reasonably quick-witted, reasonably because you're interested. Yeah, yeah. If you're not interested in something, you'll you'll not you'll not pick up the information. So, from all of those sorts of things, I'm gonna put down as my number two choice was the night we opened the door to our good friends Sue and John. And I will say on the air, because I know they listen, uh, thank you. Because the the places the places you've led us uh have been really quite special.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

And and I I think you know, you know, go back going back to drilling that, you know, there is a mindset to giving it a go. Yeah. Isn't there? There's so many people say no immediately, don't even think about it, or whatever. But you know, the the uh I'm gonna give the example of the podcast. We said, Here, let's give it a go. We thought of the idea, we'll give it a go.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

We gave it a go at a ridiculous speed. We'd have one meeting and half a dozen interactions on WhatsApp when we sat down to record the first episode.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

I worked and I I think you're right. There is a we've met a lot of people over the years with that sort of fixed mindset. Yeah, it's like somebody who just eat Wheatabicks every day for their breakfast. It's like not looking cleanest pipes in Ireland. But no, I think that's a good one. Mark Mark and do they still challenge you?

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Oh, yes. And I I suppose in many ways I've challenged them as well uh on certain things. But and again, it's funny you you wrote about set your North Star.

SPEAKER_04 31:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Setting your North Star and having your your standards and having the things that you're prepared to do and want to do, and how you want to present yourself and act in life. I just think a lot of people have become very insular and only look at their own situation as opposed to looking out and being part of a wider community, and how do I contribute rather than what can I take out of it?

SPEAKER_03 31:27

Listening to the Rory McElroy book this morning, I picked a great example, and it was uh Martin golfer Billy Andre said that when he was in uh the locker room, there was a young lad there, 18 years old, who came up to him and shook his hand and said, Billy, I've seen you play golf for years, I'd just like to say you're great. I've grown up watching you play. I hope you make me feel welcome on the tour. And Billy tells a story in the book, he says, Whenever I came on tour in the late 70s, it was the dumb thing for every kid to go up to the established golfers and do that. He said, I hadn't seen that in 10 years done before, Rory. He said that level of humanity to say I'm I'm lucky to be here, but I also want to be part of it. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 32:10

And you know, funny, it you you say that there there is a lot of taking out there, like you know, because I have freer time, you always ask it in various committees, etc., that type of stuff. But and the work you do in particular committees or the band or whatever, people don't take it for granted and they just want to take, take, take. And if you ask them to give, you know, it's it's become that society a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

A little bit, but anyway, that was uh not to get too moralistic. I just think that society would be better if people went back to some of the attitudes that were from uh 50s, 60s. True.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

I like that number one that's in line with maybe a couple of ones people have touched on there. 2008, I was working as a marketing manager for a company and the credit crunch hit. And basically, uh one of the industries the company I work for was in was the marine industry, and boats stopped being built overnight. And I got called into my managing director's office who said to me, I had a team of my four or five guys, you've got a choice here. Do you um we can make a couple of them redundant and we can still go on a skeleton team, or uh we can look at other ways to do it. And I for no other reason said is there a package available to me? And I remember the time going, it was like an out-of-body experience. And he said, Well, look, we can look to see if there's something available. Give me half an hour with the other directors. Came back and he said, Look, we don't want to lose you, but if you did want to go, here's what we could give you. And I went, done. I left that company after four or five years working there, I thought it was a job for life, and within a week it set up my first business in the worst sort of financial conditions. Everyone kept saying, just try to get another job, try to do something. And I remember going, Nope.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

I'm unemployable.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

There was a bit of that, but it was a that moment of absolute fear that someone had your career in their hands, that actually I felt as low as I did, but also as energized. Like I remember leaving, I can remember every minute of getting into the car tending ignition on driving out there and people looking out, thinking, Why is he leaving this time? And I actually remember now that was just such a pivotal moment of going, This is probably the worst I'm gonna feel. And people kept saying to me, it's a thing me and you we chatted about a bit, Garth, is like how if you look at the news and hear everything about that's not a good time to do this, not good time to do that. And within a few, within a month, I had a business partner on a project, and we had a couple of staff after a few months and just thrived. Like I absolutely found my purpose and need just from that one decision to say, Is there a package available to me? In a time where I would say 99.9% of people would have went, I want to stay. How can I stay? How can I look for that paycheck every month coming in? And put myself into that position where I feel now for the last what 18 years is just refined who I am. I love that. So that was my my sort of crossroads there.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

The big plus in that is you backed yourself, yeah. Yeah, and the when you back yourself, you realise that you can achieve a lot. And a lot of people never reach the point of backing themselves. In fact, they always just assume somebody else will either look after them or they're not getting their opportunity because somebody else is keeping them down. 100%. And the reality is we are all responsible for ourselves, yeah. And you you you make your own opportunities in many ways, and taking that challenge straight on the and going, nope, this is what I'll do. Fair play.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

And I bumped into a couple of guys I worked with uh last month in Biger Golf Club. Two guys have been there since I was there, and I've said things are it's not as good as it used to be, and like they're guys that'll be there forever, and they enjoy that structure and all. And I thought I was one of those people, and I realized very quickly you couldn't pay me enough money to get back into an organization and a role to work a nine to five job.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Having worked with you on this project and all the rest of it, I don't see you as a structure guy. No, exactly. No, it that doesn't mean you you're not good at what you do, but I don't see you as just regimented and structure. I would be much more regimented in a lot of the ways I do things, etc., than you are. But I've worked with somebody who I've talked about many times on the podcast who I think is the best ideas person I've ever worked with. Now he needs some structure in behind that, but the ideas are incredible because he keeps coming up with them and these new angles, but he needs the team that provides some degree of structure behind that.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

So if you're a good ideas person and you back yourself, well then there's plenty of opportunities out there.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

Exactly. You know, I think the time and to a lot of degrees was quite right as well. Like always being involved in cutting out technology and social media, website, everything that's coming out. Getting at the forefront, it's not necessarily about knowing every exact detail. No, it's about communicating that cheering people.

SPEAKER_04 37:10

Well, I I read a very I went looking there for I read a very good tweet last night, and I think the Twitter name is Dear Self, and it says, You gotta do that not to surprise me. You've got to move like you already got it. The universe doesn't bless hesitation. It doesn't. And you've got to you gotta have that confidence to go forward and say, Yeah, I can do it.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

If you are a zebra on the Serengeti and you don't run, well then you get eaten. Yeah. So they they make the decision to run.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

I I actually also quite like that analogy when the the decks stacked against you. It's like a really bad financial condition. Why would you be starting this there? The amount of people go, I don't think that's a good idea, actually fuels me to a degree to go, actually, I want I'd much rather prove them wrong than work for myself.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Well, we we bought our company first of January 1994. We were in a recession. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

Wait, good one, Andy. Good. I think you'll like this one, right? Walking out behind the bin lorry and not looking left and right and getting knocked down by a car in 1989. Right? So I'll tell you a story. 27th of December 1989, I was working in a bar uh in Cross Gar. The bin lorry came early, and we had to you know get all the rubbish out. It was all the Christmas rubbish, etc. Run out. I walked out across the road, put the stuff in the bin lorry, and walked out behind the bin lorry and was knocked down by a car, up in the air, double somersault, crashed, ambulance in the hospital, and that sealed my fate for the rest of my life. And the reason being that woman who knocked me down took me to court for damage to her car. Right, and because she was taking me to court for damage to her car, that was my first year at university, all my mates were going off to America to work and have a whale of a time working in America as a summer job. I couldn't go because I had this court case overhanging me, which she won by the way, uh, and I had to pay the damages. But it ended up I got a job in First Trust Bank and because and just as a summer job, yeah, and I worked there every summer during university and my master's and that type of stuff, and because I and because and my male levels weren't good in accountancy, so I wasn't getting jobs from the big four firms and those type of things, but I got a job only because I worked in First Trust Bank with a company called Jones Peters, and that was my introduction into insolvency and because going become an insolvency practitioner, and I would not be sitting here retired at 45 if I hadn't have gone that career, and it was only because I got that summer job in First Trust Bank because I didn't go to America with the rest of my mates. The other side of that coin, if you hadn't have been hit by that working thing, exactly I would have been away to America during the summer, and I would just be probably a worker or a partner, probably hopefully still a partner in a countenance firm, but just doing the poof. Whereas I got into insolvency, and that was my niche. Countency was never my niche. I didn't really like it, understand it, that type of stuff, but insolvency I got. What were the injuries? Uh concussion, scrapped, scrapped down the face, still good looking after it, you know. And I was in hospital for a night, I think, and then had to rest up for about two weeks after.

SPEAKER_03 40:39

And actually, a court case after that is.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

That you got sued for damage to the car. And you know, these days, you're just not allowed to run people over the way you used to go out to. Oh no, I you know, I I ran him over, I must get compensation. So it was a complete sliding doors moment for me. No, I what I would say to all listeners, and especially the younger listeners, uh, this is not career advice. No, this is not the way to make your decisions in life, walk out from behind the bed, Murray, and get knocked over by Mrs. Smith from number 27, uh, who wasn't looking and was busy on her iPhone at the time. Probably.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

Well, except you could almost see that story on one of those sort of Instagram videos. I got knocked down by a car. I know. I retired at 45 due to these five steps I took.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

And I used to have remember and all five of them took me out. The fourth one took me out past the bin Larry, and the fifth one was in the air.

SPEAKER_04 41:46

I said she had never had any regrets. And I remember for years, 20s and 30s, I was saying, My regrets are that I never got to go to America to work during the summer because all my friends went and had a whale of a time working in Wildwood, which was the Newcastle equivalent. Wildwood is well known. Well known, and they had a wonderful time partying all summer, etc. Whereas I was travelling 30 miles to the bank from my mum and dad's house in Crossgard in Belfast every day. I remember sitting out always early, reading the newspaper outside before going into work. Relatively boring. But if I hadn't done that, eh fair card. And now, Dr.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Susan, in about five minutes when she calls you in for your actual appointment, is going to say, And Gareth, how did that make you feel?

SPEAKER_04 42:28

It made me feel fantastic. Every day is fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Well, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 42:32

There you go. Are you still in touch with your friends from uni who went on the trip?

SPEAKER_01 42:36

And what about the lady who knocked you down? No.

SPEAKER_04 42:38

You're not she was a year above me actually in school or two years above me in school. I have the impression I was an older lady. No, no, younger lady. Um yeah. So she's she won the court case. Do you think she's a listener? No, I'm not sure. I can't give you the name.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

For legal reasons, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Good one. My two choices. One was business oriented, one was sort of personal community. The third one is the pure enjoyment, and what something we chose to do gave us an incredible amount of enjoyment, completely unexpectedly. So in 2003, I was looking for an adventure for the family in the summer.

SPEAKER_04 43:15

It's not awesome. I was saying, he said, I was going, okay, more let's take it here.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Oh no, naive are we anyway?

SPEAKER_01 43:28

It's 2003 and looking for an adventure for the family, and I decided that the good idea was to go to a ranch. And we are not from a farming background, we are not from a horse riding background and everything. But we will go to this ranch in the Canadian Rockies and we will ride horses and go through the wilderness and all of this type of adventure stuff.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

So rich as imagine the bell. I know.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Actually, very reasonable. Back in two thousand three. Got more as it went on. Anyway, so we we Traveled to this place called the Three Bars Ranch in uh British Columbia and done everything online. Rang them one day, talked to them, and went out there. And we arrive in this little town called Cranbrook, and it's outside Cranbrook, and we have to find our way to Three Bars Ranch and we turn off the main road. Where'd you fly into? Uh Calgary. Okay. And then came across in the in the car, obviously. But so we're going up this dirt road, and it's seven kilometres into the boondocks on a dirt road. And as we're going up, there's a couple of abandoned properties on the way up. And Debbie looks at me at the time and goes, I'm not sure about this. And the kids are in the back, they're quite excited by the whole prospect. And I said, Look, do not worry. If we don't like it, we'll leave tomorrow. Because this may not be what I thought it was. So sorry if I've got walked us into something. So we arrive in, park up, go in, speak to the owner, April. And April said, Yep, you're in cabin seven and eight, and uh it's over there at the far side. And we went, Do you have keys? She says, No, we don't use keys. I went, in bear country. And uh she says, No, no, that's fine. There's there's a little chain on the back of the door. I'm going, no grizzlies stopping for the little chain on the back of the door. Went over and Debbie's going, I'm not really very happy. There's no security, we're in the middle of nowhere, etc. etc. That place changed our family's life. We returned year after year thereafter, ending up that I had to do something again, the seek discomfort thing, which is interact with a load of people that I'd never met each year because everybody's there for a week, and things like the campfire. I ended up running the campfire, playing songs, singing. Wouldn't you know? Did you bring a guitar with you? Uh not the first year.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Who like wrecking your vase in the office?

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Several other years. They had a guitar there. I started bringing out like new strings and various things and revamping it each year. But the friendships we made there, we had American friends overstaying recently who we'd met on the ranch. We have other friends we stay in touch with. I think we went to the ranch in total. I think Debbie and I were there 14 times. Wow over the years, because it just became part of the extended family each year, and you would meet up with two or three sets of friends.

SPEAKER_04 46:14

And what did you do in the ranch during the day, for example?

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Got up in the morning, breakfast, rode horses till about lunchtime, came back in. Either you could go back out on horseback in the afternoon, or there'd be things like skiet shooting, we did some ATV stuff, we'd go and play golf in the local area. It was I just fell in love with the place. The kids would have loved that. Absolutely. And then Mark, at one point, he went and worked on the ranch for six weeks before we came out. Oh, right. And that was a great life experience for him. They became such solid friends, and we went out. And one of my favourite years was um they brought in a local musician uh one time, and the first time I met him, and we we played a few songs together. The following year he said, Tell me when Martin's coming in, I'll bring all the kits up. And he brought a full band setup on lights, and it was me, him, and a couple other people, and we just had a night playing music, and it was just awesome. Love the place. We are at the stage now where we have probably we're not riding horses anymore and everything, but we will go back again to actually visit the friends. But that was a decision made through looking at something, and you just go, that changed our families.

SPEAKER_04 47:21

So you're are you an accomplished horseback rider then?

SPEAKER_01 47:24

At a point in time, I would have been what could be described in fact, the best compliment, my my very good friend uh won the US show jumping championships when he was uh 18 years old. And uh he would go out with me and he said the final time he said, Martin, that's the best I've ever seen you ride a horse. He said, until the charge on the way home, when there was a moment where it looked like you surrendered to the horse. And it just it took it, but you're on tracks through the forest, you're rough ground through rivers, climbing up the side of steep sort of ravines.

SPEAKER_04 48:01

Would you ever think looking at him that he was a horseback rider?

SPEAKER_01 48:04

No, not one bit, but then again, is that Ari outside Cal Green then lovely air it is utterly spectacular, and I made uh I made eight movies out there under the title Seven Day Cowboys, and so the first one was Seven Day Cowboys, the second one was Seven Day Cowboys Reloaded, the third time was Seven Day Cowboys Rehashed, then it went to regurgitated and then I made three other movies because when I decided I'd stop doing that because I used to send them to all the guests afterwards, make these movies and send them all set to music, and uh then I went one year and I said, I'm not gonna do it anymore. I've we've we've done so many of them, what can we do? And the Wranglers that were there uh who look after they said, Oh no, no, no, we want our movie. And so I made three more movies for them called Wranglers, not just a pair of jeans. And uh we we did that, and uh then I did a final one when we were out there at a point in time called The Last Rodeo, and I said, I'm not making another one.

SPEAKER_04 49:01

It is sounds like I have to say, you know, like I went to Wilderness America canoeing as well. I look back and I go, That's a trip. With the kids your age, do you have and they it is something that you maybe have oh, maybe maybe we should have done that.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

Have experience. We did a family adventure every summer, and that bonded us as a family unbelievably. And yeah, we're very fortunate people, I like that, but we we would go around, and I mean, in the car, if you were covering the mileage, they'd be listening to Harry Potter audiobooks and all the rest. I remember the two kids fell asleep at one point. Debbie says, Can you turn Harry Potter off? And I went, No, it's quite exciting at the moment.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

But I I like I like the fact that uh poor dad's being dragged to her rants. Oh, I know, I know. Oh, can we not say someone more luxurious more? No, no, me and the boys want this.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Fell in love with the place, she is every bit as much in love with the place as I am.

SPEAKER_04 49:52

Oh, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

That's a great let's see where the listeners go because we've rabbited on a little bit on this. Um but I think we're just getting into the mindset of talking to strangers before we go in for our sessions here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

They did say, Andy, by the way, you they thought your session would be the longest.

SPEAKER_04 50:10

I only have one. Uh Rodney Maxwell resetting the 11 plus. He got the he was able to reset. I asked him. He was able to reset it. He says he wasn't well in the second paper. Oh, that all thing a lot. Yeah, and we still keep him going on the vinyl vault that he didn't score, we all scored. Uh choosing to do 9-0 levels when my teachers advised 7. And he went on to have a quite a successful career. Teachers are sent doing seven. You in my school, you decided you were told what you could do nine or seven, so you got choice. Buying my first house, and number three, buying my first house with my girlfriend. I'd only met six months before. I didn't inquire further in that question.

SPEAKER_02 50:51

So hopefully his uh the current Mrs.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

Maxwell isn't listening. Lewis sent in decisions, laser eye surgery, best money I've ever spent on.

SPEAKER_04 51:02

I totally agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 51:03

Number two, which I'm not gonna read out, I'll fast forward, uh, joining Carnegie and having a group of friends. We have Johnny sent in life decisions bracket, employing a house cleaner, game changer, taking Mondays off, and then an Emma mattress. Ooh, where's three? Life changing decisions.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Yeah, then a lot of people talk about the Emma mattress. I'm not sure that it's a life-changing decision, I think it's a lifestyle decision, but anyway.

SPEAKER_03 51:33

And then Patty sent in number three, choosing who to spend time with with your circle massively shapes your life. These are generic, but there's a point. Learning a new language, Swedish speaking paddy is very different than English speaking paddy, completely different people. Right. And then number one is moving to a new country, massive shift in opportunities and perspective.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

Paddy's the one in Sweden who I wrongly possibly accused of being dull. He did, yeah. Um but maybe Swedish Paddy is dull. Potentially, yeah, it might be. I'm just pointing it out. It is a possibility because he says they're completely different people. So the paddy you know is is really good. Yeah, but maybe Swedish Paddy is quite dull.

SPEAKER_03 52:14

We'll ask him to send in his thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Yeah, but don't give him my home address in case he wants to. Okay, Colonel Lou gave us sticking with playing music in older life, joining the military and giving my life to Christ. Uh, I know Lou's been a Christian for a very long time. Uh Janet Williamson, leading an expedition of 16 boys to Costa Rica with World Challenge. Nice. Uh, becoming a Christian and changing career A-level degree choices, when those choices were very difficult to change. Ashley Parks, who by the way is training as we know as a Presbyterian minister, before I get too uh far into his as well, leaving Queen's University halfway through my first year in 2005 when dropping out was still regarded as taboo. Uh, going to the sizzling stone restaurant in Albufera, where you cook your own steak on a hot stone. So I ate it much rarer than usual. That was incredible. That's a good one. I like that one. And following Jesus. And then Courtney Thompson, buying a house, moving jobs, taking a gap year after school. She goes, boring choices, but true. Johnny Kerr said uh too many, too many to pick three. I'll leave it up to you, Mark. I sent him back some choices.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Uh, can we pick Johnny's four? All right. Meeting me and you in business a number of years ago. Never won.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

And uh big Keith uh accepting an invitation to go to my first ACDC concert. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, I gave him that invitation. Oh, it over. Yeah, uh, being persuaded by my wife that we needed a dog.

SPEAKER_03 53:56

Oh, I yeah, I quite I'm on the fence there, Keith.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

Yeah, let's and seeking professional advice from a then unknown individual in Belfast over 25 years ago. And as I spoke to him when he'd sent his choices through, I said, Well, who was that that turned you down that I got stuck with? And he went, That's not funny. Okay, and I went, Well, it's quite funny, it's certainly mildly amusing to me, but there you go. Listeners, today was quite serious in some ways. There were a few serious bits of debate. There were as the usual um a little bit of banter between between us all. I think we're all now quite calm and ready to go in for our sessions. Dr. Susan apparently is the most direct. She's you, you're you're first in with Dr. Susan. Andy's with Dr. Griselda. Um and that may take a little bit of time. Where I'm with Dr. Jones because uh, well, that was the only one left available. So, anyway, we'll be back shortly to talk about another thing that interests us here on the Pick Three Show. But until then, on behalf of the podcast, my name is Martin.

SPEAKER_04 55:00

My name is Garth.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

My name is Albi. And uh maybe we'll be different people by the next time you hear us because we'll have been analyzed. And uh, well, let's be honest, it wouldn't do us any harm. See you soon.