{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.86,"body":"Hello"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.86,"body":"listeners. This is the risky"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1.86,"endTime":4.2,"body":"planner podcast. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1.86,"endTime":4.2,"body":"tuning."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":10.5,"endTime":12.0,"body":"In, Otter. Is it too late to say"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":12.0,"endTime":14.64,"body":"Happy New Year?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":12.0,"endTime":14.64,"body":"Albert, it's never too late to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":14.64,"endTime":16.02,"body":"say Happy New Year. Happy New"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":14.64,"endTime":16.02,"body":"Year."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":16.379,"endTime":18.359,"body":"No, it's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":16.379,"endTime":18.359,"body":"got to be within two weeks and"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":18.359,"endTime":20.479,"body":"then a Seinfeld episode. Well,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":18.359,"endTime":20.479,"body":"anyways, happy"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":20.54,"endTime":22.52,"body":"new year. Happy"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":20.54,"endTime":22.52,"body":"new to you. I mean, yeah, we've"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":22.52,"endTime":24.86,"body":"been talking, of course, like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":22.52,"endTime":24.86,"body":"we've, yeah, we this is not the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":24.86,"endTime":27.32,"body":"first time we've said Happy New"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":24.86,"endTime":27.32,"body":"Year to each other, but only one"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":27.32,"endTime":29.96,"body":"opportunity. We've only talked"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":27.32,"endTime":29.96,"body":"once. That's true. We haven't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":30.5,"endTime":31.76,"body":"just only once."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":32.299,"endTime":35.719,"body":"But Well,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":32.299,"endTime":35.719,"body":"we're, I think we got a really"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":35.719,"endTime":38.059,"body":"this is going to be an"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":35.719,"endTime":38.059,"body":"interesting season, let me just"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":38.059,"endTime":41.139,"body":"say, because we've got some"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":38.059,"endTime":41.139,"body":"really exciting episodes"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":41.139,"endTime":45.579,"body":"planned. But before we talk"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":41.139,"endTime":45.579,"body":"about that, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":45.579,"endTime":47.619,"body":"episode is going to be, is"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":45.579,"endTime":47.619,"body":"pretty fun."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":47.98,"endTime":50.38,"body":"It's, yeah, this"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":47.98,"endTime":50.38,"body":"is a fun one. We were kind of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":50.38,"endTime":54.1,"body":"dream boarding this one from"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":50.38,"endTime":54.1,"body":"last year, and I think we've got"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":54.1,"endTime":56.38,"body":"some good, good stuff to talk"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":54.1,"endTime":56.38,"body":"about. But before we get into"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":56.38,"endTime":57.46,"body":"that, how was your break?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":57.64,"endTime":60.54,"body":"Yeah, my"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":57.64,"endTime":60.54,"body":"break was restful because I"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":60.54,"endTime":65.22,"body":"didn't do too much, yeah? Like,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":60.54,"endTime":65.22,"body":"we went up to my in laws, my my"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":65.22,"endTime":70.08,"body":"father in law's house, and other"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":65.22,"endTime":70.08,"body":"than that, like, no, didn't do"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":70.08,"endTime":73.44,"body":"too much. It was great. Lot of"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":70.08,"endTime":73.44,"body":"like, just lying low."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":73.44,"endTime":75.96,"body":"You did. I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":73.44,"endTime":75.96,"body":"developed some extremely"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":75.96,"endTime":79.62,"body":"damaging habits, W, slash r"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":75.96,"endTime":79.62,"body":"slash T, sleeping too long and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":79.62,"endTime":83.12,"body":"eating too much. Yeah. So, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":79.62,"endTime":83.12,"body":"know, it's been really hard to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":83.12,"endTime":87.92,"body":"break those since I got back"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":83.12,"endTime":87.92,"body":"into adulting and the New Year"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":88.1,"endTime":88.94,"body":"adulting."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":89.0,"endTime":92.18,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":89.0,"endTime":92.18,"body":"true. I said it last year, and"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":92.18,"endTime":95.12,"body":"I'll say it again, but like, the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":92.18,"endTime":95.12,"body":"break kind of makes me nervous,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":95.12,"endTime":98.54,"body":"because then the first week you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":95.12,"endTime":98.54,"body":"get back, it's just a constant,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":98.54,"endTime":101.08,"body":"like, Oh my God, what's going"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":98.54,"endTime":101.08,"body":"on? Like, you gotta follow up"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":101.08,"endTime":103.9,"body":"with people. You gotta like,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":101.08,"endTime":103.9,"body":"what? Where did this thing go?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":103.9,"endTime":107.38,"body":"It's a lot of like, scrambling."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":103.9,"endTime":107.38,"body":"Yeah, it is. But I think we're"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":107.38,"endTime":110.62,"body":"in a good place. Like we"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":107.38,"endTime":110.62,"body":"announced some news this week."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":110.62,"endTime":113.08,"body":"Man, it was a major week for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":113.08,"endTime":115.72,"body":"a major week. Huge"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":113.08,"endTime":115.72,"body":"week for us. Major week. We are"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":115.72,"endTime":118.78,"body":"recording this on January the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":115.72,"endTime":118.78,"body":"22nd just to be clear. And"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":118.78,"endTime":121.98,"body":"earlier this week, we announced"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":118.78,"endTime":121.98,"body":"a partnership with Saud consult,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":122.22,"endTime":127.2,"body":"that's right, which is a huge"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":122.22,"endTime":127.2,"body":"deal for us, and also, frankly,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":127.2,"endTime":129.6,"body":"maybe getting a little too big"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":127.2,"endTime":129.6,"body":"for our bridges here, but for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":129.6,"endTime":130.14,"body":"Canada,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":130.259,"endTime":132.659,"body":"no, it's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":130.259,"endTime":132.659,"body":"it's huge. So Saud consult is"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":132.659,"endTime":139.139,"body":"the oldest and largest"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":132.659,"endTime":139.139,"body":"engineering firm in Saudi"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":139.139,"endTime":144.739,"body":"Arabia. They've got 2800 uh,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":139.139,"endTime":144.739,"body":"engineers, you know, Team"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":144.859,"endTime":149.419,"body":"employees, staff across the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":144.859,"endTime":149.419,"body":"kingdom, and we are teaming up"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":149.419,"endTime":155.299,"body":"with them to bring our, our, our"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":149.419,"endTime":155.299,"body":"brand of project controls and"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":155.299,"endTime":159.199,"body":"system implementation in an apcm"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":155.299,"endTime":159.199,"body":"model to the kingdom. So it's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":159.199,"endTime":164.259,"body":"really exciting. It's not only"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":159.199,"endTime":164.259,"body":"so that's cool, but even cooler"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":164.499,"endTime":169.179,"body":"was the Minister of"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":164.499,"endTime":169.179,"body":"International Trade from Canada."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":170.319,"endTime":174.579,"body":"He gave us a quote for our news"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":170.319,"endTime":174.579,"body":"release, an endorsement, and"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":174.579,"endTime":178.119,"body":"then after the fact, and that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":174.579,"endTime":178.119,"body":"announcement came on the 20th so"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":178.119,"endTime":181.139,"body":"that's just two days ago, and"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":178.119,"endTime":181.139,"body":"then after the fact, just"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":181.139,"endTime":185.279,"body":"yesterday, the Canadian"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":181.139,"endTime":185.279,"body":"ambassador to Saudi Arabia,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":185.759,"endTime":189.779,"body":"yeah, tagged really cool on"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":185.759,"endTime":189.779,"body":"LinkedIn. So it's been a huge"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":189.779,"endTime":190.559,"body":"week for us."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":190.62,"endTime":193.02,"body":"This all makes"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":190.62,"endTime":193.02,"body":"more sense in context when you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":193.02,"endTime":197.46,"body":"understand that our CEO, Tarek"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":193.02,"endTime":197.46,"body":"do kanesh was part of the trade"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":197.46,"endTime":201.38,"body":"delegation to Saudi that just"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":197.46,"endTime":201.38,"body":"came back, like they just came"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":201.38,"endTime":205.52,"body":"home. So, you know, we had a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":201.38,"endTime":205.52,"body":"couple of folks there to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":205.7,"endTime":210.86,"body":"represent Canada's competitive"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":205.7,"endTime":210.86,"body":"advantages and interests in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":210.86,"endTime":214.76,"body":"collaboration with the kingdom,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":210.86,"endTime":214.76,"body":"and it went really well, like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":214.76,"endTime":217.34,"body":"we, you know, obviously it was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":214.76,"endTime":217.34,"body":"that one deal, but that wasn't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":217.34,"endTime":219.98,"body":"the only one. Like, you can go"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":217.34,"endTime":219.98,"body":"check on LinkedIn and see all"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":219.98,"endTime":222.52,"body":"kinds of other interesting stuff"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":219.98,"endTime":222.52,"body":"that came out of that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":222.52,"endTime":225.4,"body":"delegation. But, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":222.52,"endTime":225.4,"body":"is all part of that whole"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":225.76,"endTime":231.7,"body":"geopolitical reorganization that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":225.76,"endTime":231.7,"body":"happens for reasons we won't get"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":231.7,"endTime":233.08,"body":"into. But, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":233.62,"endTime":235.54,"body":"well, I"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":233.62,"endTime":235.54,"body":"mean, and I, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":235.54,"endTime":240.76,"body":"saying it's a huge week. It's,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":235.54,"endTime":240.76,"body":"let's be clear, like we have a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":240.94,"endTime":246.48,"body":"solution and services that are"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":240.94,"endTime":246.48,"body":"peerless in the market, so to"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":246.48,"endTime":252.66,"body":"speak. And there is so much work"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":246.48,"endTime":252.66,"body":"that's happening in Saudi Arabia"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":252.66,"endTime":258.24,"body":"and UAE and GCC nations that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":252.66,"endTime":258.24,"body":"it's the place like we're"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":258.54,"endTime":262.1,"body":"supposed we should be there,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":258.54,"endTime":262.1,"body":"because we're gonna have an"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":262.1,"endTime":262.64,"body":"impact."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":262.64,"endTime":264.8,"body":"So especially"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":262.64,"endTime":264.8,"body":"since a lot of the projects that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":264.8,"endTime":267.8,"body":"are that are happening, there"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":264.8,"endTime":267.8,"body":"are sufferings from some pretty"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":267.8,"endTime":272.72,"body":"typical mega project woes, yep,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":267.8,"endTime":272.72,"body":"which happened to be the topic"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":272.72,"endTime":275.66,"body":"of today's episode. Segue."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":272.72,"endTime":275.66,"body":"Thanks, right? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":275.66,"endTime":278.06,"body":"unfortunately, it was an"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":275.66,"endTime":278.06,"body":"excellent segue that I'm going"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":278.06,"endTime":281.56,"body":"to have to segue directly out"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":278.06,"endTime":281.56,"body":"of. But because before we get to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":281.56,"endTime":284.8,"body":"that, yeah, let's Yeah, our"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":281.56,"endTime":284.8,"body":"survey, yeah."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":284.8,"endTime":288.4,"body":"So we, you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":284.8,"endTime":288.4,"body":"know, we're a year in, we'd love"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":288.4,"endTime":292.66,"body":"to get to know you better our"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":288.4,"endTime":292.66,"body":"listeners this year. And so"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":292.84,"endTime":296.62,"body":"starting with this episode,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":292.84,"endTime":296.62,"body":"we're going to be running the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":296.62,"endTime":299.32,"body":"survey to get to know you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":296.62,"endTime":299.32,"body":"better, and we're going to be"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":299.32,"endTime":302.4,"body":"asking you. Have several"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":299.32,"endTime":302.4,"body":"questions, we'll make sure that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":302.4,"endTime":306.06,"body":"it's doesn't take a lot of your"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":302.4,"endTime":306.06,"body":"time, but we'd really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":306.06,"endTime":310.44,"body":"it if you engage with us and let"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":306.06,"endTime":310.44,"body":"us know who you are and sort of"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":310.44,"endTime":313.5,"body":"what you would be interested in"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":310.44,"endTime":313.5,"body":"hearing more of you know,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":313.5,"endTime":318.0,"body":"feedback is always welcomed, so"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":313.5,"endTime":318.0,"body":"stay tuned. We'll have more"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":318.0,"endTime":319.26,"body":"information at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":318.0,"endTime":319.26,"body":"show"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":319.8,"endTime":322.88,"body":"for sure. So we'll"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":319.8,"endTime":322.88,"body":"we won't belabor it any further,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":322.88,"endTime":325.82,"body":"but look for a link to that in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":322.88,"endTime":325.82,"body":"the show notes. We'll also get"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":325.82,"endTime":328.34,"body":"it out on LinkedIn. So if you're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":325.82,"endTime":328.34,"body":"the kind of person that only"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":328.34,"endTime":331.58,"body":"listens to the first 10 minutes"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":328.34,"endTime":331.58,"body":"of a podcast, this is for you."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":331.58,"endTime":334.46,"body":"Go check us out on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":331.58,"endTime":334.46,"body":"Follow that link, complete our"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":334.46,"endTime":335.78,"body":"survey, help us out."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":336.5,"endTime":337.82,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":336.5,"endTime":337.82,"body":"we're under that 10 minutes"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":337.82,"endTime":339.44,"body":"mark, so hopefully people are"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":337.82,"endTime":339.44,"body":"still"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":339.5,"endTime":340.78,"body":"boy, just under,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":343.72,"endTime":346.42,"body":"okay,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":343.72,"endTime":346.42,"body":"Albert, let me segue back to the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":346.42,"endTime":351.04,"body":"episode and our topic at hand,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":346.42,"endTime":351.04,"body":"Yep, yeah. And so last month, we"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":351.04,"endTime":355.36,"body":"were talking about like a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":351.04,"endTime":355.36,"body":"concept of a capital project"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":355.36,"endTime":359.14,"body":"time machine, where we spend a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":355.36,"endTime":359.14,"body":"bit of time going back and"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":359.14,"endTime":365.22,"body":"dissecting the mistakes or"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":359.14,"endTime":365.22,"body":"decision making, the risks, the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":365.22,"endTime":369.48,"body":"delays and projects that turned"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":365.22,"endTime":369.48,"body":"into disasters, and just"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":369.54,"endTime":373.56,"body":"spending some time dissecting"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":369.54,"endTime":373.56,"body":"them, ones that you will know"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":373.56,"endTime":377.94,"body":"very well, and bringing our own"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":373.56,"endTime":377.94,"body":"brand of expertise to them,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":378.36,"endTime":380.66,"body":"yeah, like you can"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":378.36,"endTime":380.66,"body":"come you kind of think of it as"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":380.66,"endTime":383.6,"body":"like, what if we were time"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":380.66,"endTime":383.6,"body":"traveling project managers from"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":383.6,"endTime":389.18,"body":"the year 2026 going back in time"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":383.6,"endTime":389.18,"body":"to run these projects again?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":389.48,"endTime":392.3,"body":"Right? What would we do"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":389.48,"endTime":392.3,"body":"differently? What would we know"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":392.36,"endTime":396.02,"body":"that could maybe change the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":392.36,"endTime":396.02,"body":"outcome a little bit? And I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":396.02,"endTime":399.32,"body":"think it's worth mentioning that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":396.02,"endTime":399.32,"body":"these projects are all failures"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":399.32,"endTime":402.04,"body":"from the perspective of their"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":399.32,"endTime":402.04,"body":"cost and schedule performance,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":402.22,"endTime":406.18,"body":"but not all of them are, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":402.22,"endTime":406.18,"body":"know, failures, from the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":406.18,"endTime":409.24,"body":"perspective of, did they achieve"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":406.18,"endTime":409.24,"body":"their objectives, right? You"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":409.6,"endTime":411.82,"body":"know, some of the things we're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":409.6,"endTime":411.82,"body":"going to talk about are"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":411.88,"endTime":415.96,"body":"absolutely iconic. And, in fact,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":411.88,"endTime":415.96,"body":"let's, let's start with arguably"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":415.96,"endTime":418.42,"body":"the most iconic, the Sydney"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":415.96,"endTime":418.42,"body":"Opera House."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":418.419,"endTime":420.519,"body":"Yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":418.419,"endTime":420.519,"body":"Sydney Opera House is beautiful."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":420.519,"endTime":425.339,"body":"It's like, really put I mean,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":420.519,"endTime":425.339,"body":"it's emblematic of Sydney as a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":425.339,"endTime":430.979,"body":"city, even like Australia as a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":425.339,"endTime":430.979,"body":"country. Yes, it has incredible"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":430.979,"endTime":435.659,"body":"significance. It's beautiful by"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":430.979,"endTime":435.659,"body":"all measures. It's a success,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":435.659,"endTime":436.499,"body":"right? Like after"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":436.5,"endTime":439.44,"body":"the fact, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":436.5,"endTime":439.44,"body":"yeah. I mean it. I don't know"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":439.5,"endTime":442.4,"body":"how good it is as an opera"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":439.5,"endTime":442.4,"body":"house, but it sure looks great"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":442.4,"endTime":446.54,"body":"on a postcard, right? And it's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":442.4,"endTime":446.54,"body":"in the background of like every"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":446.54,"endTime":451.22,"body":"movie that films in Australia. I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":446.54,"endTime":451.22,"body":"mean, it is undeniably one of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":451.22,"endTime":455.72,"body":"the architectural marvels of the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":451.22,"endTime":455.72,"body":"world, that's right? And all"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":455.72,"endTime":462.14,"body":"that cost just over 13 100% of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":455.72,"endTime":462.14,"body":"what they thought it was going"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":462.14,"endTime":462.62,"body":"to cost."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":462.62,"endTime":465.16,"body":"13 cost."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":462.62,"endTime":465.16,"body":"1300 Yeah, okay, let's, let's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":465.16,"endTime":467.86,"body":"jump into it. Albert, what are"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":465.16,"endTime":467.86,"body":"your thoughts like right away?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":468.46,"endTime":470.5,"body":"Well, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":468.46,"endTime":470.5,"body":"worth mentioning this in the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":470.5,"endTime":473.2,"body":"next one we're going to talk"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":470.5,"endTime":473.2,"body":"about which, you know, spoiler"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":473.2,"endTime":476.08,"body":"alert, it's the Big Dig. We"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":473.2,"endTime":476.08,"body":"can't shut up about the Big Dig."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":476.08,"endTime":479.08,"body":"So we're not going to. But the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":476.08,"endTime":479.08,"body":"in both of these cases, you're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":479.08,"endTime":482.1,"body":"talking about projects that, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":479.08,"endTime":482.1,"body":"know, like we said, unmitigated"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":482.1,"endTime":485.4,"body":"successes from the perspective"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":482.1,"endTime":485.4,"body":"of, did they get the thing done,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":485.46,"endTime":490.56,"body":"right? I mean, in fact, the City"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":485.46,"endTime":490.56,"body":"of Sydney considers the project"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":490.56,"endTime":494.82,"body":"to be a pretty massive success."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":490.56,"endTime":494.82,"body":"Now, this is, you know, 60 years"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":494.82,"endTime":499.62,"body":"on from from when the thing was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":494.82,"endTime":499.62,"body":"actually finished, but it's, it"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":499.62,"endTime":503.18,"body":"generates a ton of revenue. It's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":499.62,"endTime":503.18,"body":"a it's a massive tourist draw,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":503.18,"endTime":506.36,"body":"like it's, it is a success. But"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":503.18,"endTime":506.36,"body":"that doesn't mean that it"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":506.36,"endTime":510.62,"body":"couldn't have been done for a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":506.36,"endTime":510.62,"body":"smaller price tag. And yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":510.62,"endTime":514.82,"body":"thing was delivered 10 years"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":510.62,"endTime":514.82,"body":"late, 10 years Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":514.82,"endTime":518.12,"body":"So people"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":514.82,"endTime":518.12,"body":"don't remember right, the pain"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":518.42,"endTime":521.98,"body":"or the frustration of some of"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":518.42,"endTime":521.98,"body":"these projects. You know, the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":521.98,"endTime":526.42,"body":"Big Dig In particular in Boston"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":521.98,"endTime":526.42,"body":"that was like, by all measures,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":526.42,"endTime":529.18,"body":"that's, that's a success, right?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":526.42,"endTime":529.18,"body":"They're talking about doing"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":529.18,"endTime":534.76,"body":"another one, and that, after the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":529.18,"endTime":534.76,"body":"fact, is, yeah, let's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":534.76,"endTime":537.76,"body":"all is forgiven. Let's go. Maybe"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":534.76,"endTime":537.76,"body":"people get voted out of office"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":537.76,"endTime":539.62,"body":"and whatnot. But there's, well,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":537.76,"endTime":539.62,"body":"that's something"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":539.62,"endTime":542.04,"body":"that we're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":539.62,"endTime":542.04,"body":"definitely because when, when"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":542.04,"endTime":545.82,"body":"schedules go long like they did"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":542.04,"endTime":545.82,"body":"on on Sydney, right? There are"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":545.82,"endTime":549.12,"body":"political changes that happen."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":545.82,"endTime":549.12,"body":"People start to want to throw"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":549.12,"endTime":551.94,"body":"rocks. Yeah. So when, when new"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":549.12,"endTime":551.94,"body":"politicians do, new"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":551.94,"endTime":554.64,"body":"administrations come in, they"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":551.94,"endTime":554.64,"body":"want to throw rocks at the old"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":554.7,"endTime":558.12,"body":"team and start making changes"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":554.7,"endTime":558.12,"body":"and stuff, and making changes to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":558.12,"endTime":561.14,"body":"your by the way, this is going"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":558.12,"endTime":561.14,"body":"to be point one that we're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":561.14,"endTime":564.32,"body":"talking about, like, the longer,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":561.14,"endTime":564.32,"body":"by the way, it's not my point."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":564.32,"endTime":567.14,"body":"It's, it's, it's something I'm"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":564.32,"endTime":567.14,"body":"lifting, as I often do from Ben"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":567.14,"endTime":571.58,"body":"flyberg. He put this pretty"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":567.14,"endTime":571.58,"body":"Nate's laughing at me, holler,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":571.58,"endTime":575.54,"body":"holler, bent back, shout out to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":571.58,"endTime":575.54,"body":"shout out to Professor flyberg."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":576.5,"endTime":579.14,"body":"There's a lot of, there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":576.5,"endTime":579.14,"body":"of Ben flyberg In this episode,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":579.14,"endTime":582.76,"body":"just, you know, race, that's the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":579.14,"endTime":582.76,"body":"research is right? So that's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":582.76,"endTime":586.24,"body":"where it comes from, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":582.76,"endTime":586.24,"body":"it. But in this particular case,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":586.24,"endTime":589.66,"body":"it's about that window of risk,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":586.24,"endTime":589.66,"body":"right? The longer you spend in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":589.66,"endTime":593.98,"body":"execution, the more stuff can go"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":589.66,"endTime":593.98,"body":"wrong. So you know the old"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":593.98,"endTime":598.72,"body":"truism that $1 spent in planning"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":593.98,"endTime":598.72,"body":"is worth $1.50 in execution is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":598.72,"endTime":603.968,"body":"even truer. On mega projects and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":598.72,"endTime":603.968,"body":"iconic projects and unique or"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":603.968,"endTime":607.388,"body":"first of a kind projects, than"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":603.968,"endTime":607.388,"body":"it is on your average everyday"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":607.388,"endTime":610.148,"body":"project. And it's pretty true on"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":607.388,"endTime":610.148,"body":"your average everyday project."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":610.148,"endTime":611.768,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":610.148,"endTime":611.768,"body":"that's right. So Albert, can we?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":612.188,"endTime":617.468,"body":"Can you just kind of level set"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":612.188,"endTime":617.468,"body":"on the Sydney Opera House, like"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":617.528,"endTime":620.288,"body":"we're gonna go back in time?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":617.528,"endTime":620.288,"body":"Let's start at that moment. What"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":620.288,"endTime":623.54,"body":"are we? What are we looking at,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":620.288,"endTime":623.54,"body":"and as an executive, sort of"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":623.54,"endTime":627.26,"body":"overseeing that project and sort"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":623.54,"endTime":627.26,"body":"of, what are you prioritizing?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":627.44,"endTime":627.92,"body":"Sure?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":627.98,"endTime":632.12,"body":"So first off, I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":627.98,"endTime":632.12,"body":"want to say that the if the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":632.12,"endTime":635.78,"body":"Sydney Opera House is, is, is,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":632.12,"endTime":635.78,"body":"like, emblematic of any one kind"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":635.78,"endTime":639.14,"body":"of project failure. It's a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":635.78,"endTime":639.14,"body":"failure of scoping, right? Of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":639.14,"endTime":642.46,"body":"like having some arms around"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":639.14,"endTime":642.46,"body":"your scope. So my favorite"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":642.46,"endTime":646.0,"body":"factoid about this is that, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":642.46,"endTime":646.0,"body":"know, in the mid 50s, there was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":646.06,"endTime":650.32,"body":"an architectural contest for the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":646.06,"endTime":650.32,"body":"new opera house in Sydney, and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":650.32,"endTime":657.04,"body":"the winning sketch was so"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":650.32,"endTime":657.04,"body":"beautiful and so iconic and so"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":657.16,"endTime":662.22,"body":"revolutionary that the committee"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":657.16,"endTime":662.22,"body":"awarding the prize to the to the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":662.22,"endTime":665.82,"body":"architects ignored the fact that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":662.22,"endTime":665.82,"body":"it did not meet almost any of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":665.82,"endTime":669.12,"body":"the requirements for a valid"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":665.82,"endTime":669.12,"body":"submittal to the architectural"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":669.12,"endTime":672.6,"body":"contest, right? It didn't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":669.12,"endTime":672.6,"body":"include structural calculations."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":672.6,"endTime":675.36,"body":"It didn't include, like, a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":672.6,"endTime":675.36,"body":"constructability plan. It was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":675.36,"endTime":678.24,"body":"literally just a sketch, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":675.36,"endTime":678.24,"body":"So when we talk about building"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":678.24,"endTime":680.84,"body":"something from the back of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":678.24,"endTime":680.84,"body":"napkin, that's the Sydney Opera"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":680.84,"endTime":684.44,"body":"House. That's literally where,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":680.84,"endTime":684.44,"body":"you know, flash forward to 14"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":684.74,"endTime":689.42,"body":"100% of cost overruns. Now you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":684.74,"endTime":689.42,"body":"know why, right? They had"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":689.42,"endTime":693.68,"body":"absolutely no idea how to build"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":689.42,"endTime":693.68,"body":"the roof shells. Construction"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":693.68,"endTime":697.1,"body":"began in 1959 they didn't know"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":693.68,"endTime":697.1,"body":"how they were going to build the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":697.1,"endTime":701.5,"body":"roof geometry until three years"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":697.1,"endTime":701.5,"body":"later. So anybody who's ever"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":701.5,"endTime":703.9,"body":"built anything before might be"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":701.5,"endTime":703.9,"body":"thinking, but hang on, they were"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":703.9,"endTime":706.24,"body":"three years into construction,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":703.9,"endTime":706.24,"body":"and they didn't know how the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":706.24,"endTime":710.08,"body":"roof was going to be. So how did"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":706.24,"endTime":710.08,"body":"they build the foundations?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":710.56,"endTime":713.2,"body":"So when"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":710.56,"endTime":713.2,"body":"you go back in time, you're"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":713.26,"endTime":716.62,"body":"you're going all the way back to"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":713.26,"endTime":716.62,"body":"the contest to begin with,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":716.62,"endTime":716.86,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":716.86,"endTime":719.2,"body":"Because that's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":716.86,"endTime":719.2,"body":"when the planning starts. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":719.8,"endTime":721.98,"body":"so, what's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":719.8,"endTime":721.98,"body":"the conversation you'd have with"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":721.98,"endTime":722.52,"body":"that panel?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":723.18,"endTime":726.84,"body":"Well, first off, I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":723.18,"endTime":726.84,"body":"would tell them, you know. And"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":726.84,"endTime":729.72,"body":"then again, like everybody"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":726.84,"endTime":729.72,"body":"listening to this is going to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":729.72,"endTime":732.72,"body":"immediately key into like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":729.72,"endTime":732.72,"body":"hindsight is 2020, of course,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":732.72,"endTime":734.7,"body":"yeah, yeah, time traveling."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":732.72,"endTime":734.7,"body":"That's the point. That's the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":734.88,"endTime":738.12,"body":"point. Okay, yeah. So you know"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":734.88,"endTime":738.12,"body":"what we know now is that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":738.12,"endTime":741.68,"body":"projects like this one have a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":738.12,"endTime":741.68,"body":"tendency to run massively over"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":741.74,"endTime":745.52,"body":"on schedule, and then those"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":741.74,"endTime":745.52,"body":"schedule issues tend to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":745.52,"endTime":749.48,"body":"translate into cost issues,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":745.52,"endTime":749.48,"body":"right? So you know, back to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":749.48,"endTime":751.82,"body":"that, you know dollar in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":749.48,"endTime":751.82,"body":"planning, dollar 50 and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":751.82,"endTime":756.26,"body":"execution thing, you spend as"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":751.82,"endTime":756.26,"body":"much time as you can in project"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":756.26,"endTime":758.9,"body":"planning, you spend as much time"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":756.26,"endTime":758.9,"body":"as you can getting your arms"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":758.9,"endTime":761.56,"body":"around the scope. That doesn't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":758.9,"endTime":761.56,"body":"mean that owners have to develop"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":761.56,"endTime":763.96,"body":"their own scope or own their own"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":761.56,"endTime":763.96,"body":"scope. In fact, that's a really"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":763.96,"endTime":768.88,"body":"inefficient way of doing things,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":763.96,"endTime":768.88,"body":"usually. But at the very least,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":769.12,"endTime":772.06,"body":"you and the people who are"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":769.12,"endTime":772.06,"body":"responsible for the design you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":772.06,"endTime":774.52,"body":"know you as an owner, need to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":772.06,"endTime":774.52,"body":"get your arms around what you're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":774.52,"endTime":777.58,"body":"building before you break"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":774.52,"endTime":777.58,"body":"ground. Right, right? So I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":777.58,"endTime":780.54,"body":"mentioned earlier, we don't have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":777.58,"endTime":780.54,"body":"roof geometry solved until three"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":780.54,"endTime":783.24,"body":"years into construction. How did"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":780.54,"endTime":783.24,"body":"they build the foundation? Well,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":783.24,"endTime":786.0,"body":"the answer is, they built it"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":783.24,"endTime":786.0,"body":"wrong, right? They had to rip"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":786.0,"endTime":788.52,"body":"out the foundation and rebuild"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":786.0,"endTime":788.52,"body":"it three years into"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":788.52,"endTime":791.4,"body":"construction, right? So how"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":788.52,"endTime":791.4,"body":"crazy is that?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":791.819,"endTime":794.279,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":791.819,"endTime":794.279,"body":"pretty wild. So walk me through"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":794.279,"endTime":799.319,"body":"it, like put yourself on that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":794.279,"endTime":799.319,"body":"panel and you're looking at the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":799.319,"endTime":802.279,"body":"napkin. Let's say you're looking"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":799.319,"endTime":802.279,"body":"at the sketch. What are the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":802.279,"endTime":805.519,"body":"questions that you're asking"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":802.279,"endTime":805.519,"body":"your fellow panelists to"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":805.519,"endTime":806.119,"body":"consider?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":806.18,"endTime":808.22,"body":"Well, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":806.18,"endTime":808.22,"body":"this case, I don't even have to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":808.22,"endTime":811.58,"body":"be a time traveler to answer"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":808.22,"endTime":811.58,"body":"that question, because there"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":811.58,"endTime":813.08,"body":"were, I mean, I would be, but I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":811.58,"endTime":813.08,"body":"would because"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":813.08,"endTime":815.72,"body":"of these."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":813.08,"endTime":815.72,"body":"It's not real. It's not even"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":815.72,"endTime":819.02,"body":"time travel, time traveling,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":815.72,"endTime":819.02,"body":"yeah. I mean, I don't have to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":819.02,"endTime":822.7,"body":"be a real time"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":819.02,"endTime":822.7,"body":"traveler, obviously. But even"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":822.7,"endTime":825.82,"body":"somebody at the time, people did"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":822.7,"endTime":825.82,"body":"raise this concern at the time,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":825.88,"endTime":830.2,"body":"it wasn't a compliant bid,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":825.88,"endTime":830.2,"body":"right? So, like the it's really"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":830.2,"endTime":832.72,"body":"interesting. It's something that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":830.2,"endTime":832.72,"body":"they probably should have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":832.72,"endTime":835.24,"body":"considered, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":832.72,"endTime":835.24,"body":"another building, someplace"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":835.24,"endTime":837.94,"body":"else, or whatever. But there is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":835.24,"endTime":837.94,"body":"an argument to be made that they"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":837.94,"endTime":842.64,"body":"should have been to that sketch,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":837.94,"endTime":842.64,"body":"right, or at the very least, if"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":842.64,"endTime":846.36,"body":"they were so married to the idea"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":842.64,"endTime":846.36,"body":"that that sketch was the winner,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":846.54,"endTime":850.08,"body":"then they should have given all"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":846.54,"endTime":850.08,"body":"of the proponents an extra two"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":850.08,"endTime":854.04,"body":"weeks or something to develop"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":850.08,"endTime":854.04,"body":"their designs further. And like,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":854.04,"endTime":856.32,"body":"you can put a smoke screen up"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":854.04,"endTime":856.32,"body":"and saying, like, Hey, we got a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":856.32,"endTime":858.36,"body":"really a lot of really great"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":856.32,"endTime":858.36,"body":"bids. We want to see them"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":858.36,"endTime":861.5,"body":"developed more. So we're adding"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":858.36,"endTime":861.5,"body":"two weeks of the contest to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":861.5,"endTime":864.92,"body":"flesh out structural details and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":861.5,"endTime":864.92,"body":"constructability, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":864.92,"endTime":867.32,"body":"do a little bit of early doors"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":864.92,"endTime":867.32,"body":"planning, which you can very"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":867.32,"endTime":870.26,"body":"much do in two weeks off a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":867.32,"endTime":870.26,"body":"sketch, right? Because you don't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":870.26,"endTime":873.38,"body":"need much, but you need"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":870.26,"endTime":873.38,"body":"something, right? They literally"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":873.38,"endTime":876.2,"body":"had no idea how they were going"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":873.38,"endTime":876.2,"body":"to build this thing when they"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":876.2,"endTime":879.74,"body":"said, Yep, that's our winner,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":876.2,"endTime":879.74,"body":"right? So, you know, initially"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":879.8,"endTime":881.9,"body":"they were going to build the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":879.8,"endTime":881.9,"body":"whole opera house, and, granted,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":881.9,"endTime":884.5,"body":"this was in the mid 50s. In the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":881.9,"endTime":884.5,"body":"mid 50s, for 7 million"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":884.56,"endTime":888.82,"body":"Australian dollars. That's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":884.56,"endTime":888.82,"body":"crazy. And that 14 100% price"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":888.82,"endTime":893.44,"body":"increase takes us up over 100"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":888.82,"endTime":893.44,"body":"million Yeah. So by the way, 100"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":893.44,"endTime":896.38,"body":"million dollars for that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":893.44,"endTime":896.38,"body":"building is a steal"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":897.4,"endTime":899.5,"body":"in today's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":897.4,"endTime":899.5,"body":"dollars, yeah, I was gonna say"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":899.5,"endTime":901.8,"body":"in today's. These dollars. Wait"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":899.5,"endTime":901.8,"body":"a second, you have to, like,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":901.8,"endTime":905.52,"body":"adjust, yeah. So what were all"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":901.8,"endTime":905.52,"body":"the like? What else did you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":905.58,"endTime":909.9,"body":"discover about sort of Sydney's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":905.58,"endTime":909.9,"body":"Opera House and the process by"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":909.9,"endTime":911.4,"body":"which they built it? One thing"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":911.4,"endTime":915.48,"body":"that's really"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":911.4,"endTime":915.48,"body":"crazy about it is that it very"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":915.48,"endTime":921.62,"body":"nearly did not get fully funded,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":915.48,"endTime":921.62,"body":"right? There was, there were,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":922.22,"endTime":927.98,"body":"there were 496 special lotteries"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":922.22,"endTime":927.98,"body":"that raised the exact amount"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":927.98,"endTime":933.14,"body":"required to finish the building."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":927.98,"endTime":933.14,"body":"Okay, wow. So the the taxpayers"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":933.14,"endTime":936.86,"body":"in Sydney were ready to tear the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":933.14,"endTime":936.86,"body":"building down, you know, with"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":936.86,"endTime":940.12,"body":"sticks and rocks, because it was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":936.86,"endTime":940.12,"body":"taking so long and costing so"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":940.12,"endTime":943.3,"body":"much like people were expecting"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":940.12,"endTime":943.3,"body":"to go see operas in there when"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":943.3,"endTime":946.54,"body":"the roof wasn't even on yet,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":943.3,"endTime":946.54,"body":"right, right? So, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":946.54,"endTime":950.44,"body":"delivering something 10 years"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":946.54,"endTime":950.44,"body":"late. Is, is, is, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":950.74,"endTime":954.22,"body":"pretty bad. And like, we're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":950.74,"endTime":954.22,"body":"gonna have some others that are"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":954.22,"endTime":957.64,"body":"that are in that same timeframe."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":954.22,"endTime":957.64,"body":"But you know, this one really"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":957.64,"endTime":961.26,"body":"stands out for being a massive"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":957.64,"endTime":961.26,"body":"overrun on both cost and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":961.26,"endTime":964.44,"body":"schedule, and people noticed,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":961.26,"endTime":964.44,"body":"right, right? So, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":964.44,"endTime":969.12,"body":"the architect resigned, and you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":964.44,"endTime":969.12,"body":"know, before the building was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":969.12,"endTime":973.32,"body":"finished, like in 1966 he"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":969.12,"endTime":973.32,"body":"resigned, and he never came back"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":973.32,"endTime":977.88,"body":"to Australia ever. Wow, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":973.32,"endTime":977.88,"body":"so, and by the way, what's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":977.88,"endTime":983.66,"body":"really crazy 1966 when we're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":977.88,"endTime":983.66,"body":"talking about in 2007 UNESCO,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":983.66,"endTime":986.06,"body":"right? The United Nate. What"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":983.66,"endTime":986.06,"body":"does UNESCO stand for?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":986.06,"endTime":988.82,"body":"Nate,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":986.06,"endTime":988.82,"body":"United Nations,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":990.68,"endTime":992.84,"body":"yeah, yeah. We're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":990.68,"endTime":992.84,"body":"blanking on this one. You're"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":993.319,"endTime":995.599,"body":"just"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":993.319,"endTime":995.599,"body":"supposed to say UNESCO, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":995.599,"endTime":998.059,"body":"but it does stand"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":995.599,"endTime":998.059,"body":"for something. So Nate. Rescue"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":998.059,"endTime":1003.359,"body":"me from this googling while I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":998.059,"endTime":1003.359,"body":"explain that UNESCO named this a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1003.359,"endTime":1007.859,"body":"World Heritage Site in 20 in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1003.359,"endTime":1007.859,"body":"2007 while the main architect, a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1007.859,"endTime":1012.419,"body":"guy called Utzon, was still"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1007.859,"endTime":1012.419,"body":"alive. Okay, that is the only"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1012.419,"endTime":1015.239,"body":"time that's ever happened. And"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1012.419,"endTime":1015.239,"body":"this is the youngest building"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1015.239,"endTime":1017.579,"body":"that has ever been listed as a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1015.239,"endTime":1017.579,"body":"World Heritage Site."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1017.939,"endTime":1020.159,"body":"It's the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1017.939,"endTime":1020.159,"body":"United Nations Educational,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1020.159,"endTime":1024.919,"body":"Scientific and Cultural"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1020.159,"endTime":1024.919,"body":"Organization, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1024.919,"endTime":1033.499,"body":"it's, it's, it's like the this"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1024.919,"endTime":1033.499,"body":"sagrida familia in Sagrada"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1033.499,"endTime":1037.879,"body":"Familia, yeah, thank you. Is was"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1033.499,"endTime":1037.879,"body":"a UNESCO heritage site before it"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1037.879,"endTime":1041.079,"body":"was finished. But you know,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1037.879,"endTime":1041.079,"body":"everybody who planned that was,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1041.079,"endTime":1042.039,"body":"you know, long dead,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1042.459,"endTime":1045.399,"body":"Oh, yeah. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1042.459,"endTime":1045.399,"body":"the that was a different thing,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1045.399,"endTime":1047.499,"body":"yeah, this is, that's a whole"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1045.399,"endTime":1047.499,"body":"separate thing, because you can"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1047.499,"endTime":1048.819,"body":"actually, I've been inside"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1048.879,"endTime":1052.659,"body":"so have"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1048.879,"endTime":1052.659,"body":"ielio is beautiful. It's crazy,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1053.08,"endTime":1055.36,"body":"worth every dollar"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1053.08,"endTime":1055.36,"body":"spent on this. But again, same"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1055.36,"endTime":1058.18,"body":"thing for the Opera House,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1055.36,"endTime":1058.18,"body":"right? Like, massive failure"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1058.24,"endTime":1061.02,"body":"went way over on everything. But"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1058.24,"endTime":1061.02,"body":"come on, man, it's the Sydney"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1061.02,"endTime":1061.62,"body":"Opera House."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1062.04,"endTime":1063.9,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1062.04,"endTime":1063.9,"body":"What's funny is the we're going"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1064.68,"endTime":1068.64,"body":"to talk about the so the Sydney"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1064.68,"endTime":1068.64,"body":"Opera House, the Big Dig, we're"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1069.36,"endTime":1073.8,"body":"going to talk about some other"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1069.36,"endTime":1073.8,"body":"projects. All of these projects"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1073.8,"endTime":1081.5,"body":"had capable people, right? They"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1073.8,"endTime":1081.5,"body":"had a PMO, right? The these were"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1081.5,"endTime":1088.22,"body":"smart people, but they, they or"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1081.5,"endTime":1088.22,"body":"the group, or the, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1088.22,"endTime":1092.18,"body":"sponsor, they all made bad"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1088.22,"endTime":1092.18,"body":"decisions at certain points with"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1092.18,"endTime":1093.62,"body":"the data that they had."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1093.679,"endTime":1097.399,"body":"Yep, right? Well,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1093.679,"endTime":1097.399,"body":"for sure, and sometimes that's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1097.399,"endTime":1099.859,"body":"for very understandable reasons."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1097.399,"endTime":1099.859,"body":"Now, I don't think you could"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1099.859,"endTime":1102.759,"body":"throw that particular rock at"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1099.859,"endTime":1102.759,"body":"Sydney. So much. I don't think"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1102.759,"endTime":1105.939,"body":"there was any real strategic"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1102.759,"endTime":1105.939,"body":"misrepresentation going on"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1105.939,"endTime":1109.359,"body":"there, but strategic"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1105.939,"endTime":1109.359,"body":"misrepresentation is definitely"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1109.359,"endTime":1112.119,"body":"the theme of our next project"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1109.359,"endTime":1112.119,"body":"that we're going to talk about,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1112.119,"endTime":1112.959,"body":"which is the Big Dig,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1113.139,"endTime":1116.319,"body":"yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1113.139,"endTime":1116.319,"body":"that was, that was something,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1116.859,"endTime":1119.439,"body":"you know, it's been well covered"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1116.859,"endTime":1119.439,"body":"in the media. There's lots of"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1119.439,"endTime":1123.839,"body":"research. So I think we can"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1119.439,"endTime":1123.839,"body":"spend a little bit of time sort"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1123.839,"endTime":1127.739,"body":"of, how would you have"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1123.839,"endTime":1127.739,"body":"approached that, even, like some"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1127.739,"endTime":1131.039,"body":"of the community engagement was,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1127.739,"endTime":1131.039,"body":"was pretty wild in terms of"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1131.159,"endTime":1135.839,"body":"trying to get that through and"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1131.159,"endTime":1135.839,"body":"finished. But was that an was"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1135.839,"endTime":1138.959,"body":"that a project where it's just"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1135.839,"endTime":1138.959,"body":"kind of like, let's get it"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1138.959,"endTime":1140.899,"body":"started and we'll sort of plan"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1138.959,"endTime":1140.899,"body":"it as we go?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1141.679,"endTime":1144.739,"body":"No, it wasn't. It"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1141.679,"endTime":1144.739,"body":"wasn't intended to be that. It"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1144.739,"endTime":1147.679,"body":"was actually subject to a great"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1144.739,"endTime":1147.679,"body":"deal of planning, but the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1147.679,"endTime":1150.139,"body":"planning was was wholly"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1147.679,"endTime":1150.139,"body":"insufficient to the task of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1150.139,"endTime":1153.679,"body":"actually building it. So this is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1150.139,"endTime":1153.679,"body":"like, unlike the Sydney Opera"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1153.679,"endTime":1156.019,"body":"House, which basically got"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1153.679,"endTime":1156.019,"body":"started with no plan, the Big"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1156.019,"endTime":1158.599,"body":"Dig, got started with what"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1156.019,"endTime":1158.599,"body":"everybody thought was a pretty"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1158.599,"endTime":1163.359,"body":"good plan. You know, there, with"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1158.599,"endTime":1163.359,"body":"the exception of people who"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1163.359,"endTime":1165.519,"body":"were, you know, what we would"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1163.359,"endTime":1165.519,"body":"now call NIMBYs, right, like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1165.519,"endTime":1167.859,"body":"folks who were just not"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1165.519,"endTime":1167.859,"body":"interested in having a giant"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1167.859,"endTime":1170.319,"body":"construction project in their"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1167.859,"endTime":1170.319,"body":"backyard, like those people"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1170.319,"endTime":1173.199,"body":"didn't love the plan. There were"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1170.319,"endTime":1173.199,"body":"always alternative solutions,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1173.199,"endTime":1178.119,"body":"right? Because the point of the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1173.199,"endTime":1178.119,"body":"Big Dig was to delete a large"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1178.119,"endTime":1181.139,"body":"elevated highway structure that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1178.119,"endTime":1181.139,"body":"went right through the middle of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1181.139,"endTime":1184.559,"body":"downtown Boston and reclaim all"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1181.139,"endTime":1184.559,"body":"that space for like green space"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1184.559,"endTime":1188.099,"body":"and housing and things like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1184.559,"endTime":1188.099,"body":"that, and, you know, improve air"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1188.099,"endTime":1191.399,"body":"quality and improve noise levels"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1188.099,"endTime":1191.399,"body":"and all that stuff. So, like all"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1191.399,"endTime":1194.639,"body":"of those, those objectives could"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1191.399,"endTime":1194.639,"body":"have been met in a variety of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1194.639,"endTime":1199.499,"body":"ways, right, right? So the Big"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1194.639,"endTime":1199.499,"body":"Dig was just the one that won"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1199.499,"endTime":1202.227,"body":"out. Right? But there were"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1199.499,"endTime":1202.227,"body":"always people who were against"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1202.227,"endTime":1204.927,"body":"it, and that actually is one of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1202.227,"endTime":1204.927,"body":"the things that made it take so"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1204.927,"endTime":1209.187,"body":"dang long, because this one, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1204.927,"endTime":1209.187,"body":"know, the Sydney Opera House,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1209.187,"endTime":1217.467,"body":"went over by 14 100% the Big"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1209.187,"endTime":1217.467,"body":"Dig, went over by a lot more"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1217.467,"endTime":1221.259,"body":"than that. Well, in real"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1217.467,"endTime":1221.259,"body":"dollars, in real dollars, in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1221.259,"endTime":1228.879,"body":"real dollars, right about 560%"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1221.259,"endTime":1228.879,"body":"but it was over budget by what"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1228.879,"endTime":1232.059,"body":"was it like? $20 billion"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1228.879,"endTime":1232.059,"body":"something like that. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1232.239,"endTime":1236.739,"body":"we're talking about a starting"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1232.239,"endTime":1236.739,"body":"cost of 2.6 billion, a finished"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1236.739,"endTime":1240.959,"body":"cost of 14 point 8 billion. But"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1236.739,"endTime":1240.959,"body":"there were also $9 billion"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1240.959,"endTime":1244.379,"body":"dollars in interest in servicing"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1240.959,"endTime":1244.379,"body":"on the actual funding. So"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1244.379,"endTime":1248.939,"body":"there's a total cost of $24"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1244.379,"endTime":1248.939,"body":"billion on an initial $2.6"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1249.419,"endTime":1252.359,"body":"billion budget. So if you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1249.419,"endTime":1252.359,"body":"include all that stuff, it's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1252.359,"endTime":1254.039,"body":"almost 10x Yeah."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1254.28,"endTime":1256.2,"body":"And you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1254.28,"endTime":1256.2,"body":"know what is interesting? Like I"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1256.2,"endTime":1260.96,"body":"said, like there were seasoned"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1256.2,"endTime":1260.96,"body":"planners, there were seasoned"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1260.96,"endTime":1269.3,"body":"project controllers, you know,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1260.96,"endTime":1269.3,"body":"smart executive sponsors. Do you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1269.3,"endTime":1274.4,"body":"think like the data wasn't there"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1269.3,"endTime":1274.4,"body":"that caused the overruns, or was"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1274.4,"endTime":1278.72,"body":"it that, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1274.4,"endTime":1278.72,"body":"executives or whomever didn't"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1278.72,"endTime":1282.04,"body":"want to pay attention to what"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1278.72,"endTime":1282.04,"body":"the data was saying. Well, I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1282.04,"endTime":1284.44,"body":"mentioned that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1282.04,"endTime":1284.44,"body":"strategic misrepresentation was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1284.44,"endTime":1288.64,"body":"a big part of this. Trusting"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1284.44,"endTime":1288.64,"body":"your contractors too much is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1288.64,"endTime":1291.58,"body":"another part. We'll get to that."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1288.64,"endTime":1291.58,"body":"But, like, what is strategic"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1291.58,"endTime":1295.24,"body":"misrepresentation? So on the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1291.58,"endTime":1295.24,"body":"subject of smart executives,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1295.24,"endTime":1297.04,"body":"yeah, like you, generally"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1295.24,"endTime":1297.04,"body":"speaking, there are some"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1297.04,"endTime":1299.38,"body":"exceptions, of course, but you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1297.04,"endTime":1299.38,"body":"don't get to be a project"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1299.38,"endTime":1302.64,"body":"executive, you know, overseeing"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1299.38,"endTime":1302.64,"body":"a mega project, if you're a, if"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1302.64,"endTime":1305.46,"body":"you're a dumb, dumb, okay,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1302.64,"endTime":1305.46,"body":"you're probably a pretty smart"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1305.46,"endTime":1308.04,"body":"cookie. That's probably have a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1305.46,"endTime":1308.04,"body":"term, yeah, dumb, dumb,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1308.04,"endTime":1310.62,"body":"definitely a technical term,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1308.04,"endTime":1310.62,"body":"yeah? But, like, there's a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1310.62,"endTime":1312.96,"body":"pretty good chance that you got"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1310.62,"endTime":1312.96,"body":"your head screwed on straight."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1313.02,"endTime":1315.66,"body":"You've done that's right,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1313.02,"endTime":1315.66,"body":"something big like this before,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1315.66,"endTime":1319.26,"body":"even if it isn't this specific"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1315.66,"endTime":1319.26,"body":"thing. So you kind of know what"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1319.26,"endTime":1322.46,"body":"you're looking at. You know"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1319.26,"endTime":1322.46,"body":"you're not a nobody, right? You"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1322.46,"endTime":1327.8,"body":"know what? You know your stuff."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1322.46,"endTime":1327.8,"body":"But executives tend to fall into"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1327.98,"endTime":1332.24,"body":"a trap that leads to strategic"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1327.98,"endTime":1332.24,"body":"misrepresentation on projects."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1332.24,"endTime":1334.94,"body":"So what is strategic"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1332.24,"endTime":1334.94,"body":"misrepresentation? It's project"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1334.94,"endTime":1338.36,"body":"managers and project teams"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1334.94,"endTime":1338.36,"body":"intentionally lowballing their"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1338.36,"endTime":1341.44,"body":"estimates when they're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1338.36,"endTime":1341.44,"body":"communicating to stakeholders"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1341.44,"endTime":1344.5,"body":"outside the project team, like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1341.44,"endTime":1344.5,"body":"Project executives or the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1344.5,"endTime":1348.1,"body":"general public, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1344.5,"endTime":1348.1,"body":"whomever else, for the purposes"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1348.1,"endTime":1351.94,"body":"of getting their project"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1348.1,"endTime":1351.94,"body":"approved. Okay, so strategic"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1351.94,"endTime":1354.4,"body":"misrepresentation, you might"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1351.94,"endTime":1354.4,"body":"have guessed another Ben"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1354.4,"endTime":1358.18,"body":"fleiberg term it. This is from"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1354.4,"endTime":1358.18,"body":"way, way back, though, like the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1358.18,"endTime":1361.06,"body":"90s, he kind of think, or maybe"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1358.18,"endTime":1361.06,"body":"even the 80s, he coined this"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1361.66,"endTime":1364.86,"body":"term. But the idea here is that,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1361.66,"endTime":1364.86,"body":"and I've seen it happen in real"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1364.86,"endTime":1367.2,"body":"life, in my own projects, like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1364.86,"endTime":1367.2,"body":"in miniature, compared to the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1367.2,"endTime":1369.96,"body":"Big Dig. But you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1367.2,"endTime":1369.96,"body":"always the project manager, like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1369.96,"endTime":1372.96,"body":"I had a reputation when I was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1369.96,"endTime":1372.96,"body":"working for big oil company that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1372.96,"endTime":1376.8,"body":"you definitely heard of for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1372.96,"endTime":1376.8,"body":"bringing projects to their their"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1376.8,"endTime":1379.68,"body":"approval gates, so that they"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1376.8,"endTime":1379.68,"body":"could be killed, right, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1379.68,"endTime":1382.52,"body":"Because they would hand me the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1379.68,"endTime":1382.52,"body":"projects. I would cost them"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1382.52,"endTime":1386.24,"body":"accurately, right? Build risk"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1382.52,"endTime":1386.24,"body":"in, make sure the schedule was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1386.24,"endTime":1389.18,"body":"executable, like do"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1386.24,"endTime":1389.18,"body":"constructibility, so all that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1389.18,"endTime":1391.64,"body":"stuff right for much, much"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1389.18,"endTime":1391.64,"body":"smaller projects than this, but"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1391.64,"endTime":1394.16,"body":"I would bring them to the gate."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1391.64,"endTime":1394.16,"body":"Everybody be like, great job."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1394.16,"endTime":1396.74,"body":"You passed your gate, and then"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1394.16,"endTime":1396.74,"body":"they wouldn't fund it because it"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1396.74,"endTime":1399.38,"body":"was too expensive, too"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1396.74,"endTime":1399.38,"body":"expensive. And I always had the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1399.38,"endTime":1401.62,"body":"thought in the back, I wasn't as"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1399.38,"endTime":1401.62,"body":"well read on this stuff as you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1401.62,"endTime":1403.66,"body":"know, then, as I am now. But"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1401.62,"endTime":1403.66,"body":"like, I always had, the thought"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1403.66,"endTime":1405.94,"body":"in my mind is like, man, should"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1403.66,"endTime":1405.94,"body":"I have just gone in with the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1405.94,"endTime":1409.12,"body":"last guy's numbers? Like, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1405.94,"endTime":1409.12,"body":"know, I typically was taking"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1409.12,"endTime":1412.0,"body":"these projects over from other"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1409.12,"endTime":1412.0,"body":"people who had gone to a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1412.0,"endTime":1414.76,"body":"previous gate and said it cost,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1412.0,"endTime":1414.76,"body":"you know, some number, and that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1414.76,"endTime":1416.98,"body":"number would be three or four"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1414.76,"endTime":1416.98,"body":"times lower than the one that I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1416.98,"endTime":1420.04,"body":"would present. So it's like, if"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1416.98,"endTime":1420.04,"body":"I just came in with the lower"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1420.04,"endTime":1423.48,"body":"number, would I be running a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1420.04,"endTime":1423.48,"body":"project right now, like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1424.68,"endTime":1427.08,"body":"strategic misrepresentation,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1424.68,"endTime":1427.08,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1427.26,"endTime":1430.08,"body":"And so,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1427.26,"endTime":1430.08,"body":"you know, it makes me think of,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1430.92,"endTime":1434.52,"body":"if I'm going to go in, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1430.92,"endTime":1434.52,"body":"to low ball, and then I'm going"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1434.52,"endTime":1437.94,"body":"to get it approved, and then I'm"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1434.52,"endTime":1437.94,"body":"going to start, what's the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1437.94,"endTime":1443.12,"body":"moment where, all of a sudden we"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1437.94,"endTime":1443.12,"body":"have to have that conversation."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1443.3,"endTime":1446.48,"body":"Yeah, yeah. I need more money. I"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1443.3,"endTime":1446.48,"body":"need more money. And, like, what"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1446.48,"endTime":1450.08,"body":"does that look like from an"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1446.48,"endTime":1450.08,"body":"executive sponsors perspective,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1450.38,"endTime":1453.38,"body":"right? This is like a coming to"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1450.38,"endTime":1453.38,"body":"Jesus moment,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1453.86,"endTime":1457.52,"body":"or whoever can be"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1453.86,"endTime":1457.52,"body":"it, come to deity of choice,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1457.94,"endTime":1462.04,"body":"come to date of choice. It could"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1457.94,"endTime":1462.04,"body":"be, it could be, but it often"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1462.1,"endTime":1467.14,"body":"isn't. And I think this is where"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1462.1,"endTime":1467.14,"body":"the the real insidious nature of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1467.26,"endTime":1470.2,"body":"strategically misrepresenting"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1467.26,"endTime":1470.2,"body":"your project for approval really"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1470.2,"endTime":1473.68,"body":"comes in because you then have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1470.2,"endTime":1473.68,"body":"to, because you're effectively"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1473.68,"endTime":1478.36,"body":"exploiting two cognitive biases"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1473.68,"endTime":1478.36,"body":"when you're doing this. One is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1478.54,"endTime":1482.28,"body":"small number better than big"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1478.54,"endTime":1482.28,"body":"number, right? Like when, when"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1482.28,"endTime":1485.34,"body":"you see big number, you think,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1482.28,"endTime":1485.34,"body":"Well, that's pretty expensive,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1485.34,"endTime":1488.4,"body":"right? Sticker Shock, right? Is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1485.34,"endTime":1488.4,"body":"the common term for it. Yeah, ex"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1488.4,"endTime":1491.1,"body":"executives absolutely get"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1488.4,"endTime":1491.1,"body":"sticker shock. So when you start"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1491.1,"endTime":1493.68,"body":"talking to them about your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1491.1,"endTime":1493.68,"body":"project, which, you know, some"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1493.68,"endTime":1496.26,"body":"joker in another country told"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1493.68,"endTime":1496.26,"body":"you was going to cost this much"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1496.26,"endTime":1499.8,"body":"and take this long, you know,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1496.26,"endTime":1499.8,"body":"thinking here specifically a big"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1499.8,"endTime":1502.16,"body":"way. Company, they would"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1499.8,"endTime":1502.16,"body":"frequently do their estimates"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1502.22,"endTime":1505.1,"body":"out of Houston, and then, like,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1502.22,"endTime":1505.1,"body":"here I am in Calgary, and I have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1505.1,"endTime":1507.44,"body":"to go run this project in the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1505.1,"endTime":1507.44,"body":"oil sands. And I'm like, these"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1507.44,"endTime":1511.22,"body":"numbers are a fantasy, right,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1507.44,"endTime":1511.22,"body":"right? So if you, if you just"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1511.22,"endTime":1514.52,"body":"take those numbers, which are"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1511.22,"endTime":1514.52,"body":"designed to get projects"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1514.52,"endTime":1517.1,"body":"approved, and run with them,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1514.52,"endTime":1517.1,"body":"then you're going to run up"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1517.1,"endTime":1520.6,"body":"against, you know, change order"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1517.1,"endTime":1520.6,"body":"city, for sure. But all that is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1520.6,"endTime":1524.26,"body":"in service of, like, big"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1520.6,"endTime":1524.26,"body":"numbers, scary, right, right? So"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1524.26,"endTime":1528.76,"body":"that's one cognitive bias. The"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1524.26,"endTime":1528.76,"body":"other one is sunk cost fallacy."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1528.94,"endTime":1533.98,"body":"Yeah, right. We've talked about"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1528.94,"endTime":1533.98,"body":"that before on the show. So when"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1534.16,"endTime":1539.32,"body":"projects are underway and they"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1534.16,"endTime":1539.32,"body":"are starting to show signs of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1539.32,"endTime":1541.8,"body":"life, right? Like there, it's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1539.32,"endTime":1541.8,"body":"clear that, you know, you dig"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1541.8,"endTime":1544.26,"body":"your big trench, you're going to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1541.8,"endTime":1544.26,"body":"put some pipe in it, and then"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1544.26,"endTime":1546.42,"body":"one day, there's going to be a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1544.26,"endTime":1546.42,"body":"fire hydrant at the other end,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1546.42,"endTime":1549.24,"body":"your fire hydrant project will"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1546.42,"endTime":1549.24,"body":"be ready, right? So once that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1549.24,"endTime":1551.28,"body":"starts, it's hard to stop,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1549.24,"endTime":1551.28,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1551.52,"endTime":1555.48,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1551.52,"endTime":1555.48,"body":"right. So when you're doing a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1555.48,"endTime":1561.08,"body":"project as large as the Big Dig,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1555.48,"endTime":1561.08,"body":"at a point like you just can't,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1561.26,"endTime":1564.5,"body":"you can't stop, like, you have"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1561.26,"endTime":1564.5,"body":"to finish it, right? Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1564.5,"endTime":1567.56,"body":"that probably happened early on,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1564.5,"endTime":1567.56,"body":"when some of the construction"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1567.56,"endTime":1570.44,"body":"started. I mean, there's no"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1567.56,"endTime":1570.44,"body":"looking back, well there."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1570.44,"endTime":1572.48,"body":"So this is what"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1570.44,"endTime":1572.48,"body":"I'm talking about with sunk cost"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1572.48,"endTime":1574.82,"body":"fallacy, though, you just summed"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1572.48,"endTime":1574.82,"body":"it up beautifully. Like, that's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1574.82,"endTime":1577.4,"body":"exactly what people are thinking"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1574.82,"endTime":1577.4,"body":"when they're having these"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1577.4,"endTime":1580.34,"body":"difficult conversations about"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1577.4,"endTime":1580.34,"body":"cost and schedule overruns."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1580.34,"endTime":1582.46,"body":"Because they're thinking, well,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1580.34,"endTime":1582.46,"body":"like, we can't turn back now,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1582.52,"endTime":1586.9,"body":"yeah, you can, absolutely you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1582.52,"endTime":1586.9,"body":"can. I mean, there does come a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1586.9,"endTime":1591.22,"body":"point where it makes more sense"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1586.9,"endTime":1591.22,"body":"to finish than it would to stop"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1591.22,"endTime":1594.64,"body":"and start over, but that point"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1591.22,"endTime":1594.64,"body":"is much, much later than most"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1594.64,"endTime":1598.9,"body":"people think, right? And we have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1594.64,"endTime":1598.9,"body":"examples, you know, in the canon"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1598.9,"endTime":1601.36,"body":"of projects which we should"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1598.9,"endTime":1601.36,"body":"probably pick. This one, I can't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1601.36,"endTime":1604.98,"body":"remember the specific name of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1601.36,"endTime":1604.98,"body":"it, but there was a large Super"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1604.98,"endTime":1608.16,"body":"Collider that, I think, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1604.98,"endTime":1608.16,"body":"know, folded up its tent in the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1608.16,"endTime":1610.92,"body":"90s, early 2000s we'll do some"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1608.16,"endTime":1610.92,"body":"research on that one and bring"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1610.92,"endTime":1612.54,"body":"it up. But, like, yeah, maybe"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1610.92,"endTime":1612.54,"body":"that one cost."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1612.54,"endTime":1613.92,"body":"We could"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1612.54,"endTime":1613.92,"body":"do another episode on, like,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1613.92,"endTime":1616.44,"body":"just defense. We definitely just"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1613.92,"endTime":1616.44,"body":"scientific. Yeah, that would be"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1616.44,"endTime":1618.72,"body":"interesting. We're gonna do"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1616.44,"endTime":1618.72,"body":"another one. Sorry, go ahead."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1618.78,"endTime":1621.14,"body":"Yeah, but that,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1618.78,"endTime":1621.14,"body":"that project cost more to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1621.14,"endTime":1624.62,"body":"dismantle than it would have to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1621.14,"endTime":1624.62,"body":"finish, and the dismantling, I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1624.62,"endTime":1628.76,"body":"believe, is still ongoing,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1624.62,"endTime":1628.76,"body":"right? And that all took place"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1629.12,"endTime":1632.48,"body":"while another better Super"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1629.12,"endTime":1632.48,"body":"Collider was being built, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1632.48,"endTime":1635.36,"body":"So it made it really difficult"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1632.48,"endTime":1635.36,"body":"to justify finishing. So there's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1635.36,"endTime":1638.12,"body":"lots of ingredients in that too,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1635.36,"endTime":1638.12,"body":"and we'll definitely talk more"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1638.12,"endTime":1640.54,"body":"about it, because it's a really"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1638.12,"endTime":1640.54,"body":"interesting one, but that one"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1640.54,"endTime":1644.86,"body":"was definitely too far along to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1640.54,"endTime":1644.86,"body":"justify canceling it, right? But"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1644.86,"endTime":1648.04,"body":"the Big Dig was delivered nine"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1644.86,"endTime":1648.04,"body":"years late."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1648.1,"endTime":1651.04,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1648.1,"endTime":1651.04,"body":"let's put yourself in the room"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1651.16,"endTime":1654.82,"body":"as the executive sponsor,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1651.16,"endTime":1654.82,"body":"looking at some of that initial"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1654.82,"endTime":1657.46,"body":"planning and proposals. You know"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1654.82,"endTime":1657.46,"body":"that you're at the first"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1657.46,"endTime":1661.26,"body":"decision gate, like, what could"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1657.46,"endTime":1661.26,"body":"you as the executive sponsor"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1661.26,"endTime":1665.58,"body":"have asked, or what could you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1661.26,"endTime":1665.58,"body":"have pushed for that would have"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1665.58,"endTime":1669.36,"body":"given you sort of better insight"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1665.58,"endTime":1669.36,"body":"beyond that strategic"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1669.36,"endTime":1670.74,"body":"misrepresentation?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1671.46,"endTime":1673.86,"body":"Well, one of the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1671.46,"endTime":1673.86,"body":"reasons why strategic"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1673.86,"endTime":1676.56,"body":"misrepresentation works for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1673.86,"endTime":1676.56,"body":"getting projects across the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1676.56,"endTime":1680.3,"body":"starting line is because"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1676.56,"endTime":1680.3,"body":"executives don't have as much"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1680.3,"endTime":1683.84,"body":"information as project managers"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1680.3,"endTime":1683.84,"body":"and project teams do, so they're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1684.14,"endTime":1687.08,"body":"reliant on others for that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1684.14,"endTime":1687.08,"body":"information, and if that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1687.08,"endTime":1691.7,"body":"information seems to support a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1687.08,"endTime":1691.7,"body":"small number case, then they"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1691.7,"endTime":1695.84,"body":"will approve it, right? So in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1691.7,"endTime":1695.84,"body":"order. So I guess the point is,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1695.84,"endTime":1699.68,"body":"you know, we as time traveling"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1695.84,"endTime":1699.68,"body":"project managers, we know what"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1699.68,"endTime":1704.2,"body":"went wrong, right? But that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1699.68,"endTime":1704.2,"body":"doesn't mean that we should"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1704.2,"endTime":1706.84,"body":"expect people, at the time to,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1704.2,"endTime":1706.84,"body":"like, look at a number and know,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1706.84,"endTime":1709.42,"body":"oh, that number is too small,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1706.84,"endTime":1709.42,"body":"right? But that's not a fair"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1709.48,"endTime":1712.12,"body":"expectation. So what you have to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1709.48,"endTime":1712.12,"body":"do instead is ask a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1712.12,"endTime":1715.42,"body":"general questions that would"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1712.12,"endTime":1715.42,"body":"apply to any project that would"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1715.42,"endTime":1719.26,"body":"either validate that the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1715.42,"endTime":1719.26,"body":"estimates are good or not,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1719.44,"endTime":1725.52,"body":"right. So one of those is, have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1719.44,"endTime":1725.52,"body":"you built risk into this, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1725.64,"endTime":1728.64,"body":"How much risk? Like, what kinds"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1725.64,"endTime":1728.64,"body":"of risks? So for something,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1728.64,"endTime":1731.52,"body":"anything that's going"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1728.64,"endTime":1731.52,"body":"underground, right? And as the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1731.52,"endTime":1735.18,"body":"Big Dig name would imply, it's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1731.52,"endTime":1735.18,"body":"underground,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1736.32,"endTime":1738.6,"body":"one is"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1736.32,"endTime":1738.6,"body":"also big. It's also big. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1738.6,"endTime":1740.58,"body":"that was a horrible dad joke."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1740.639,"endTime":1742.939,"body":"Okay, yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1740.639,"endTime":1742.939,"body":"fine. No, don't worry about it,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1742.939,"endTime":1746.179,"body":"buddy. You are horrible. I'm"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1742.939,"endTime":1746.179,"body":"trying, yeah, I'm just kidding."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1746.539,"endTime":1750.319,"body":"I'm sure you're a wonderful dad."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1746.539,"endTime":1750.319,"body":"But anyway, there were, there"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1750.319,"endTime":1753.439,"body":"were massive, massive risks that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1750.319,"endTime":1753.439,"body":"were encountered on this"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1753.439,"endTime":1757.219,"body":"project. For example, as pretty"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1753.439,"endTime":1757.219,"body":"much as soon as I started"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1757.219,"endTime":1759.739,"body":"digging, they realized that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1757.219,"endTime":1759.739,"body":"there were a set of unmapped"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1759.739,"endTime":1763.059,"body":"underground utilities there that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1759.739,"endTime":1763.059,"body":"were over 150 years old. 50"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1763.059,"endTime":1765.579,"body":"years old. There were no as"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1763.059,"endTime":1765.579,"body":"built drawings, no maps,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1765.939,"endTime":1769.959,"body":"nothing. The geology hadn't been"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1765.939,"endTime":1769.959,"body":"adequately figured out, so they"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1769.959,"endTime":1773.979,"body":"had to keep stopping the dig to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1769.959,"endTime":1773.979,"body":"deal with these kinds of issues."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1774.819,"endTime":1779.379,"body":"And that's the kind of thing"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1774.819,"endTime":1779.379,"body":"that you you can't see coming"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1779.379,"endTime":1782.999,"body":"specifically when you're on day"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1779.379,"endTime":1782.999,"body":"one of a project, when you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1782.999,"endTime":1787.379,"body":"haven't broken ground yet. So"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1782.999,"endTime":1787.379,"body":"that's where risk estimation"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1787.379,"endTime":1792.659,"body":"comes in, and some risks may"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1787.379,"endTime":1792.659,"body":"over top the actual scope of the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1792.659,"endTime":1794.879,"body":"that's what happened here,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1792.659,"endTime":1794.879,"body":"right? Like paying for these"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1794.879,"endTime":1798.779,"body":"risks and for the consequences,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1794.879,"endTime":1798.779,"body":"like the costs of those risks,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1798.779,"endTime":1801.319,"body":"is what made this project. So"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1798.779,"endTime":1801.319,"body":"expensive, right?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1801.32,"endTime":1802.88,"body":"But what"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1801.32,"endTime":1802.88,"body":"I'm hearing from you is like,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1802.94,"endTime":1808.22,"body":"even though you don't know that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1802.94,"endTime":1808.22,"body":"those actual utilities by asking"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1808.22,"endTime":1811.64,"body":"a more general question, look,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1808.22,"endTime":1811.64,"body":"Boston is an old town, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1811.64,"endTime":1815.84,"body":"there's going to be stuff buried"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1811.64,"endTime":1815.84,"body":"underground, perhaps. So what"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1815.84,"endTime":1819.32,"body":"are we going to do when we"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1815.84,"endTime":1819.32,"body":"encounter that? Not if, but"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1819.32,"endTime":1822.76,"body":"when? We're going to kind of"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1819.32,"endTime":1822.76,"body":"just assuming the risk is real,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1823.06,"endTime":1826.0,"body":"and just assuming that, because"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1823.06,"endTime":1826.0,"body":"it's old, there's going to be"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1826.0,"endTime":1829.9,"body":"stuff, right? So I that's what"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1826.0,"endTime":1829.9,"body":"I'm hearing from you. And I"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1829.9,"endTime":1830.56,"body":"think, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1830.56,"endTime":1833.98,"body":"yeah, no, that's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1830.56,"endTime":1833.98,"body":"exactly it. I mean, you have to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1833.98,"endTime":1836.8,"body":"ask those kinds of questions. I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1833.98,"endTime":1836.8,"body":"mean, the usually this gets"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1836.8,"endTime":1840.3,"body":"standardized in some kind of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1836.8,"endTime":1840.3,"body":"form that you'd fill out as a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1840.3,"endTime":1843.18,"body":"project manager, it's like, go"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1840.3,"endTime":1843.18,"body":"to your decision gate and bring"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1843.18,"endTime":1845.82,"body":"it to your project executive,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1843.18,"endTime":1845.82,"body":"fill out all this information,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1845.82,"endTime":1848.88,"body":"and they'll ask you about"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1845.82,"endTime":1848.88,"body":"accounting for risk, right? But"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1848.88,"endTime":1852.72,"body":"as an executive, it's your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1848.88,"endTime":1852.72,"body":"responsibility to have some idea"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1852.72,"endTime":1856.86,"body":"of precisely how badly these"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1852.72,"endTime":1856.86,"body":"kinds of projects can go, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1856.98,"endTime":1860.48,"body":"Because if you come to your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1856.98,"endTime":1860.48,"body":"decision gate for something as"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1860.48,"endTime":1864.86,"body":"big and risky and frankly,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1860.48,"endTime":1864.86,"body":"unique as the Big Dig, and you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1864.86,"endTime":1869.24,"body":"say, Oh, I'm carrying about 10%"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1864.86,"endTime":1869.24,"body":"of contingency or 20% of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1869.24,"endTime":1872.48,"body":"contingency. I think their"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1869.24,"endTime":1872.48,"body":"number was, was, was 15% I'm not"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1872.48,"endTime":1875.96,"body":"100% on that one, like they came"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1872.48,"endTime":1875.96,"body":"to the to the initial decision"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1875.96,"endTime":1879.92,"body":"gate with a budget that was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1875.96,"endTime":1879.92,"body":"comically undersized, right? We"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1879.98,"endTime":1884.92,"body":"know now as time travelers that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1879.98,"endTime":1884.92,"body":"this project was multiple"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1884.92,"endTime":1888.94,"body":"hundreds of percents over for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1884.92,"endTime":1888.94,"body":"reasons that maybe weren't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1888.94,"endTime":1891.52,"body":"foreseeable, but they could have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1888.94,"endTime":1891.52,"body":"foreseen the fact that it would"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1891.52,"endTime":1896.08,"body":"go multiple hundreds of percents"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1891.52,"endTime":1896.08,"body":"over, right? So the correct"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1896.08,"endTime":1899.74,"body":"budget for this project was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1896.08,"endTime":1899.74,"body":"probably that 15 billion number,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1900.22,"endTime":1904.38,"body":"right? And like all that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1900.22,"endTime":1904.38,"body":"interest servicing is driven by"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1904.44,"endTime":1907.44,"body":"the schedule that you know, like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1904.44,"endTime":1907.44,"body":"the fact that the project"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1907.44,"endTime":1909.9,"body":"stopped and started a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1907.44,"endTime":1909.9,"body":"times. There were a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1909.9,"endTime":1913.68,"body":"lawsuits. Like, a woman even"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1909.9,"endTime":1913.68,"body":"died, you know, during a ceiling"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1913.68,"endTime":1917.16,"body":"collapse in 2006 like when a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1913.68,"endTime":1917.16,"body":"three ton concrete panel fell"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1917.16,"endTime":1921.62,"body":"off the roof onto her car. I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1917.16,"endTime":1921.62,"body":"mean, that's, that's tragedy"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1921.62,"endTime":1924.98,"body":"and, like, that was absolutely"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1921.62,"endTime":1924.98,"body":"preventable through, like,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1924.98,"endTime":1927.74,"body":"enhanced structural engineering"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1924.98,"endTime":1927.74,"body":"and not building the plane while"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1927.74,"endTime":1931.7,"body":"you fly it, right, right, right."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1927.74,"endTime":1931.7,"body":"So accounting for all that,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1931.7,"endTime":1932.54,"body":"sorry, Nate, go ahead."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1932.78,"endTime":1934.64,"body":"No, I was"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1932.78,"endTime":1934.64,"body":"gonna, yeah, that's, that's a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1934.64,"endTime":1935.9,"body":"lot to account for."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1936.74,"endTime":1939.98,"body":"It is, I mean, it"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1936.74,"endTime":1939.98,"body":"is, because"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1939.98,"endTime":1942.4,"body":"that's my"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1939.98,"endTime":1942.4,"body":"insightful moderation. Okay, go"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1942.4,"endTime":1943.54,"body":"ahead, you can't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1943.54,"endTime":1946.18,"body":"see it coming,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1943.54,"endTime":1946.18,"body":"right, yeah. But you, you can't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1946.18,"endTime":1950.86,"body":"see that specific thing coming."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1946.18,"endTime":1950.86,"body":"Royal, can see some things, some"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1950.92,"endTime":1953.44,"body":"something,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1950.92,"endTime":1953.44,"body":"right, yeah. And that's kind of"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1953.44,"endTime":1957.64,"body":"like moving on to the next one,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1953.44,"endTime":1957.64,"body":"which is, I find, which is a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1957.64,"endTime":1963.6,"body":"really interesting one, but is"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1957.64,"endTime":1963.6,"body":"the flood the gates in Venice,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1963.6,"endTime":1968.22,"body":"yeah. And that sort of this,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1963.6,"endTime":1968.22,"body":"the, could you see it coming?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1968.22,"endTime":1971.7,"body":"This is a little bit different"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1968.22,"endTime":1971.7,"body":"in terms of, like, why the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1971.7,"endTime":1975.06,"body":"delays and why it went over"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1971.7,"endTime":1975.06,"body":"budget, and, you know, stuff,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1975.12,"endTime":1978.54,"body":"stuff happened that was tragic,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1975.12,"endTime":1978.54,"body":"but, you know, at a on a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":1978.54,"endTime":1979.38,"body":"different level,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1979.8,"endTime":1983.78,"body":"yeah, yeah, that."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1979.8,"endTime":1983.78,"body":"It's tempting when you're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1983.78,"endTime":1986.84,"body":"talking about a project that's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1983.78,"endTime":1986.84,"body":"being executed in Italy, to be"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1986.84,"endTime":1990.32,"body":"like, well, obviously the reason"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1986.84,"endTime":1990.32,"body":"why it went over was because of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1990.32,"endTime":1993.38,"body":"corruption and graft and the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1990.32,"endTime":1993.38,"body":"mafia and whatnot. And you're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1993.38,"endTime":1996.02,"body":"like, come on. That's a little"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1993.38,"endTime":1996.02,"body":"bit, you know, a little not"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1996.02,"endTime":1998.9,"body":"racist exactly, but a little bit"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1996.02,"endTime":1998.9,"body":"of a stereotype. Like, why would"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1998.9,"endTime":2000.96,"body":"you do that? Like, come on."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":1998.9,"endTime":2000.96,"body":"There must have been something"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2001.38,"endTime":2006.06,"body":"else. No, actually, that's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2001.38,"endTime":2006.06,"body":"exactly what happened. So, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2006.06,"endTime":2009.54,"body":"know the now, I must be said"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2006.06,"endTime":2009.54,"body":"also that there's, there's a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2009.54,"endTime":2013.98,"body":"really interesting case to be"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2009.54,"endTime":2013.98,"body":"made that this project should"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2013.98,"endTime":2019.26,"body":"not have been built at all,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2013.98,"endTime":2019.26,"body":"right? And we can, I mean, that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2019.32,"endTime":2021.72,"body":"sounds weird. We'll get to that."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2019.32,"endTime":2021.72,"body":"But like, put a pin in that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2021.72,"endTime":2024.5,"body":"extremely controversial"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2021.72,"endTime":2024.5,"body":"statement. But the point is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2024.5,"endTime":2028.88,"body":"that, you know, this project"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2024.5,"endTime":2028.88,"body":"went over by about 4x right? And"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2028.88,"endTime":2032.66,"body":"even those early estimates are"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2028.88,"endTime":2032.66,"body":"not really clear, because there"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2032.66,"endTime":2036.26,"body":"was no public bidding, no"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2032.66,"endTime":2036.26,"body":"competitive public bidding on"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2036.26,"endTime":2040.1,"body":"this project, zero, yeah, it was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2036.26,"endTime":2040.1,"body":"a single source to a consortium"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2040.16,"endTime":2045.22,"body":"that immediately descended into"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2040.16,"endTime":2045.22,"body":"bribes and padded costs and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2045.22,"endTime":2049.18,"body":"using companies that didn't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2045.22,"endTime":2049.18,"body":"really exist, and like the in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2049.18,"endTime":2054.4,"body":"2014 an investigation done by"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2049.18,"endTime":2054.4,"body":"the city revealed that there was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2054.4,"endTime":2059.68,"body":"systematic corruption that made"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2054.4,"endTime":2059.68,"body":"the thing cost as much as it did"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2059.68,"endTime":2062.94,"body":"and take as long as it did. And"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2059.68,"endTime":2062.94,"body":"the Italian government is not"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2062.94,"endTime":2066.54,"body":"famous for its ability to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2062.94,"endTime":2066.54,"body":"control costs on projects, okay,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2066.84,"endTime":2067.08,"body":"like,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2067.08,"endTime":2068.88,"body":"Well, and,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2067.08,"endTime":2068.88,"body":"like, just to play devil's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2068.88,"endTime":2072.78,"body":"advocate to that. I mean, like,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2068.88,"endTime":2072.78,"body":"they it is, when you talk about"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2072.78,"endTime":2078.06,"body":"it is old, like the Italian like"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2072.78,"endTime":2078.06,"body":"Rome, like, everything in Italy"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2078.06,"endTime":2082.16,"body":"is so ancient, right, yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2078.06,"endTime":2082.16,"body":"I think in Rome, aren't they"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2082.16,"endTime":2084.8,"body":"doing, there's a there's a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2082.16,"endTime":2084.8,"body":"subway, but I mean, it's like"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2084.86,"endTime":2088.64,"body":"they dig a foot, and you're"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2084.86,"endTime":2088.64,"body":"running into other things that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2088.64,"endTime":2090.68,"body":"have to be so yeah, I've"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2088.64,"endTime":2090.68,"body":"actually"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2090.68,"endTime":2092.72,"body":"happened to that,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2090.68,"endTime":2092.72,"body":"that subway line have your own,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2092.72,"endTime":2095.78,"body":"by the way. Oh, yeah, yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2092.72,"endTime":2095.78,"body":"I've also been to the museum"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2095.78,"endTime":2098.9,"body":"that they opened specifically to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2095.78,"endTime":2098.9,"body":"contain all the artifacts that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2098.9,"endTime":2099.92,"body":"they keep finding that are."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2100.0,"endTime":2102.4,"body":"Extracting,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2100.0,"endTime":2102.4,"body":"yeah. I mean, they're, they're"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2102.4,"endTime":2105.82,"body":"dealing with, like, a level of"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2102.4,"endTime":2105.82,"body":"complexity that I think in North"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2105.82,"endTime":2108.4,"body":"America you just do not have,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2105.82,"endTime":2108.4,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2108.46,"endTime":2110.44,"body":"You don't but,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2108.46,"endTime":2110.44,"body":"like, you know, flash back to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2110.44,"endTime":2113.2,"body":"our conversation just now on the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2110.44,"endTime":2113.2,"body":"Big Dig, and we're finding 150"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2113.68,"endTime":2116.92,"body":"year old buried infrastructure,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2113.68,"endTime":2116.92,"body":"right? I mean, that's not that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2116.92,"endTime":2119.86,"body":"different from, I mean, the the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2116.92,"endTime":2119.86,"body":"treatment of the risk is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2119.86,"endTime":2122.46,"body":"different, but the the fact that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2119.86,"endTime":2122.46,"body":"you're, like, you're digging a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2122.46,"endTime":2124.86,"body":"foot, and then you find the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2122.46,"endTime":2124.86,"body":"thing, and, well, I guess I'm"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2124.86,"endTime":2127.5,"body":"stopping to deal with this now,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2124.86,"endTime":2127.5,"body":"like, that's exactly what you're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2127.5,"endTime":2130.92,"body":"dealing with in something like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2127.5,"endTime":2130.92,"body":"the the Rome Metro, which, like,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2131.04,"endTime":2133.02,"body":"having been there, I've been"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2131.04,"endTime":2133.02,"body":"there a few times over the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2133.02,"endTime":2137.52,"body":"course of several years, and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2133.02,"endTime":2137.52,"body":"that thing never seems to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2137.52,"endTime":2141.68,"body":"progress. I'm telling you, like,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2137.52,"endTime":2141.68,"body":"yeah, it's, it's a wild, wild"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2141.68,"endTime":2144.92,"body":"project, like it's been in in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2141.68,"endTime":2144.92,"body":"play, and it's one of those"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2144.92,"endTime":2149.3,"body":"things that, like in Rome and in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2144.92,"endTime":2149.3,"body":"Italy generally, so much public"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2149.3,"endTime":2153.32,"body":"money is spent on preservation"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2149.3,"endTime":2153.32,"body":"and cultural stuff, right? And,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2153.32,"endTime":2156.02,"body":"of course, it is, because it's a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2153.32,"endTime":2156.02,"body":"massive tourist draw, like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2156.02,"endTime":2159.56,"body":"places like Venice. You know, if"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2156.02,"endTime":2159.56,"body":"you ruin Venice, you ruin the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2159.56,"endTime":2163.6,"body":"economy of northern Italy,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2159.56,"endTime":2163.6,"body":"right? So, you know, obviously"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2163.6,"endTime":2165.94,"body":"they have to, they feel like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2163.6,"endTime":2165.94,"body":"they had to really protect it."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2165.94,"endTime":2168.4,"body":"And one of the things they were"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2165.94,"endTime":2168.4,"body":"trying to protect it from is,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2168.4,"endTime":2172.6,"body":"you know, sea level rise and the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2168.4,"endTime":2172.6,"body":"the impacts of climate change on"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2172.6,"endTime":2177.4,"body":"the local ecosystem, and the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2172.6,"endTime":2177.4,"body":"fact that storms are getting,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2177.82,"endTime":2181.68,"body":"you know, rougher and tougher,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2177.82,"endTime":2181.68,"body":"and dumping even more sea water"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2181.68,"endTime":2185.64,"body":"into the lagoon than is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2181.68,"endTime":2185.64,"body":"typically there, raising the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2185.64,"endTime":2188.28,"body":"water level. So, like, there was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2185.64,"endTime":2188.28,"body":"a flood in Venice a few years"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2188.28,"endTime":2190.92,"body":"back that knocked out a number"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2188.28,"endTime":2190.92,"body":"of historical buildings, and,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2190.92,"endTime":2193.5,"body":"you know, had people sheltering"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2190.92,"endTime":2193.5,"body":"on top floors or buildings."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2193.5,"endTime":2196.68,"body":"That's not that uncommon there,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2193.5,"endTime":2196.68,"body":"but it is uncommon for it to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2196.68,"endTime":2200.16,"body":"happen this severely, this much,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2196.68,"endTime":2200.16,"body":"which leads me to what I was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2200.16,"endTime":2202.26,"body":"saying before. Like, they"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2200.16,"endTime":2202.26,"body":"probably shouldn't have built"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2202.26,"endTime":2204.62,"body":"this project. They this project."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2202.26,"endTime":2204.62,"body":"They should have built something"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2204.62,"endTime":2207.92,"body":"else, right? Because they have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2204.62,"endTime":2207.92,"body":"to leave these gates closed,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2208.34,"endTime":2209.6,"body":"like most of the time."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2210.02,"endTime":2211.94,"body":"So let's,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2210.02,"endTime":2211.94,"body":"let's imagine, let's just go"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2211.94,"endTime":2216.5,"body":"back and imagine that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2211.94,"endTime":2216.5,"body":"skip the corruption. Like, how"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2216.5,"endTime":2217.76,"body":"would you set this up?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2219.26,"endTime":2221.92,"body":"Well, it's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2219.26,"endTime":2221.92,"body":"tempting to think of this, and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2221.92,"endTime":2224.98,"body":"like an Italian politician,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2221.92,"endTime":2224.98,"body":"compared this to the moon"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2224.98,"endTime":2228.1,"body":"landing, like the president of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2224.98,"endTime":2228.1,"body":"the consortium, I guess he"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2228.22,"endTime":2230.56,"body":"wasn't a politician. He was one."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2228.22,"endTime":2230.56,"body":"He was part of the the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2230.56,"endTime":2233.26,"body":"consortium that built it, but he"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2230.56,"endTime":2233.26,"body":"asked the question, did the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2233.26,"endTime":2237.4,"body":"Americans launch a public bid to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2233.26,"endTime":2237.4,"body":"go to the moon? And the answer"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2237.4,"endTime":2242.58,"body":"is, yeah, no. But by going to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2237.4,"endTime":2242.58,"body":"the moon had literally never"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2242.58,"endTime":2246.18,"body":"been done before, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2242.58,"endTime":2246.18,"body":"Building giant flood gates"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2246.36,"endTime":2251.82,"body":"absolutely has been done before,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2246.36,"endTime":2251.82,"body":"right? I mean, and the system as"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2251.82,"endTime":2255.48,"body":"it's built, it does work, like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2251.82,"endTime":2255.48,"body":"it's been activated. Like I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2255.48,"endTime":2257.58,"body":"said, it's closed more often"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2255.48,"endTime":2257.58,"body":"than It's open now."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2257.58,"endTime":2259.2,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2257.58,"endTime":2259.2,"body":"pretty wild. Like to watch it,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2259.2,"endTime":2262.16,"body":"like the videos on YouTube."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2259.2,"endTime":2262.16,"body":"Like, it's pretty, pretty"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2262.16,"endTime":2263.18,"body":"interesting to watch."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2263.24,"endTime":2265.4,"body":"Yeah, it is. It's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2263.24,"endTime":2265.4,"body":"a, it's a really unique I mean,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2265.4,"endTime":2267.68,"body":"again, I'm saying it's been done"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2265.4,"endTime":2267.68,"body":"before, and then I just said"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2267.68,"endTime":2270.56,"body":"it's unique. But like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2267.68,"endTime":2270.56,"body":"big, massive floodgate has been"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2270.56,"endTime":2273.2,"body":"done before. This specific type"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2270.56,"endTime":2273.2,"body":"of, like, floating structure has"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2273.2,"endTime":2277.1,"body":"not been used for it, as my"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2273.2,"endTime":2277.1,"body":"understanding, yeah. So now,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2277.1,"endTime":2278.9,"body":"with sea"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2277.1,"endTime":2278.9,"body":"levels rising like that,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2278.9,"endTime":2282.76,"body":"apparently they have to adjust"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2278.9,"endTime":2282.76,"body":"it like there's, yeah, yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2282.76,"endTime":2283.12,"body":"that's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2283.12,"endTime":2284.74,"body":"what I mean when"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2283.12,"endTime":2284.74,"body":"I'm saying, like, as a time"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2284.74,"endTime":2287.38,"body":"traveler, we know that this"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2284.74,"endTime":2287.38,"body":"project wasn't the right thing"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2287.38,"endTime":2289.3,"body":"to suit their needs, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2287.38,"endTime":2289.3,"body":"Because it doesn't allow"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2289.3,"endTime":2291.76,"body":"recirculation with the sea, so"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2289.3,"endTime":2291.76,"body":"they have this massive algae"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2291.76,"endTime":2295.12,"body":"problem. And Venice already"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2291.76,"endTime":2295.12,"body":"smells terrible, I mean, so you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2295.12,"endTime":2297.7,"body":"know. And now it smells even"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2295.12,"endTime":2297.7,"body":"worse, because in addition to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2297.7,"endTime":2300.48,"body":"smelling like, you know, reflux,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2297.7,"endTime":2300.48,"body":"raw sewage, it also smells like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2300.48,"endTime":2302.28,"body":"algae. So, you know, right?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2302.34,"endTime":2304.92,"body":"Yes,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2302.34,"endTime":2304.92,"body":"great. Let's move on and talk"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2304.92,"endTime":2307.98,"body":"about the last project that that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2304.92,"endTime":2307.98,"body":"at least we're going to discuss"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2307.98,"endTime":2312.0,"body":"on this podcast. We have a lot"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2307.98,"endTime":2312.0,"body":"of experience tokenish with"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2312.0,"endTime":2318.24,"body":"nuclear, and so this is right up"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2312.0,"endTime":2318.24,"body":"our alley. But volt voltal In"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2318.24,"endTime":2319.02,"body":"the US, did"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2319.02,"endTime":2321.68,"body":"I say that? Right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2319.02,"endTime":2321.68,"body":"Voltal volt? I think so, votal,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2321.98,"endTime":2324.14,"body":"vodal, it's spelled Vogtle."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2326.54,"endTime":2329.06,"body":"Like, you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2326.54,"endTime":2329.06,"body":"know, when I was from the US,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2329.06,"endTime":2331.94,"body":"like, yeah, I probably would"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2329.06,"endTime":2331.94,"body":"have pronounced it the same way."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2331.94,"endTime":2338.0,"body":"And Vogtle, yeah, like, Merlot,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2331.94,"endTime":2338.0,"body":"or like, oh God, Warrior. Or you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2338.0,"endTime":2339.56,"body":"like, I can Yeah."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2340.4,"endTime":2343.12,"body":"Foyer is again,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2340.4,"endTime":2343.12,"body":"for me, honestly, like, Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2343.12,"endTime":2347.38,"body":"can't get behind foyer. I can't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2343.12,"endTime":2347.38,"body":"do it. It's foyer. You can say"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2347.38,"endTime":2350.38,"body":"foyer. Here's a question, what"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2347.38,"endTime":2350.38,"body":"is the Do you know? Do you know"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2350.38,"endTime":2355.42,"body":"that piece of furniture that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2350.38,"endTime":2355.42,"body":"looks like a couch, but like the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2355.42,"endTime":2359.14,"body":"the half of the back is missing,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2355.42,"endTime":2359.14,"body":"you know? And like, maybe it has"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2359.14,"endTime":2362.04,"body":"like, a short back on one side,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2359.14,"endTime":2362.04,"body":"like an armrest. That's kind of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2362.04,"endTime":2370.32,"body":"like swoopy Shays, a Shays, what"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2362.04,"endTime":2370.32,"body":"lounge? It's a shades long, what"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2370.62,"endTime":2372.12,"body":"it's called a chaise long."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2372.24,"endTime":2374.58,"body":"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2372.24,"endTime":2374.58,"body":"let's delete that. Okay, no,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2374.58,"endTime":2377.7,"body":"because absolutely not like a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2374.58,"endTime":2377.7,"body":"fool. Okay, let's, let's go back"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2377.7,"endTime":2380.54,"body":"to the project. Yeah, late,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2377.7,"endTime":2380.54,"body":"late, like, tell me about this?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2381.32,"endTime":2384.74,"body":"Yeah, so the Votel"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2381.32,"endTime":2384.74,"body":"three and four is what we're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2384.74,"endTime":2387.5,"body":"talking about. Like units three"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2384.74,"endTime":2387.5,"body":"and four represented the first"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2387.5,"endTime":2391.22,"body":"attempt to build a new nuclear"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2387.5,"endTime":2391.22,"body":"reactor in the United States in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2391.22,"endTime":2397.22,"body":"over 30 years. So as you, as you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2391.22,"endTime":2397.22,"body":"are likely aware, the Carter"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2397.28,"endTime":2399.92,"body":"administration effectively"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2397.28,"endTime":2399.92,"body":"killed nuclear in the Korea."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2400.0,"endTime":2404.02,"body":"Crib for reasons good and bad."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2400.0,"endTime":2404.02,"body":"Okay, yeah. Like, this is one of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2404.02,"endTime":2406.18,"body":"those, like throwing the baby"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2404.02,"endTime":2406.18,"body":"out with the bathwater moments"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2406.18,"endTime":2409.72,"body":"in American history, where we"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2406.18,"endTime":2409.72,"body":"could have started down the road"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2409.96,"endTime":2413.98,"body":"of a more responsible, more"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2409.96,"endTime":2413.98,"body":"affordable version of clean"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2413.98,"endTime":2417.04,"body":"energy, you know, than we"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2413.98,"endTime":2417.04,"body":"currently get from the nuclear"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2417.04,"endTime":2421.08,"body":"industry in the US and Canada,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2417.04,"endTime":2421.08,"body":"because we've we just threw 30"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2421.08,"endTime":2424.14,"body":"years of reactor building"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2421.08,"endTime":2424.14,"body":"experience right in the garbage,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2424.86,"endTime":2428.7,"body":"and that's unfortunate. But you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2424.86,"endTime":2428.7,"body":"know, there's a nuclear"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2428.7,"endTime":2432.0,"body":"renaissance now, right? There is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2428.7,"endTime":2432.0,"body":"we're trying to get more"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2432.0,"endTime":2435.0,"body":"reactors built more quickly, all"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2432.0,"endTime":2435.0,"body":"over the world, but in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2435.0,"endTime":2437.94,"body":"particular in North America, and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2435.0,"endTime":2437.94,"body":"this is one of the standard"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2437.94,"endTime":2441.86,"body":"bearers for that nuclear"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2437.94,"endTime":2441.86,"body":"renaissance, right? So what did"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2441.86,"endTime":2445.46,"body":"you learn? Oh, sorry, no,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2441.86,"endTime":2445.46,"body":"please, yeah. What did we learn"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2445.46,"endTime":2448.7,"body":"from that when you were doing"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2445.46,"endTime":2448.7,"body":"some of your research? Well, as"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2448.7,"endTime":2451.16,"body":"you might have guessed from the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2448.7,"endTime":2451.16,"body":"fact that we're including it in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2451.16,"endTime":2454.76,"body":"this episode, it didn't go"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2451.16,"endTime":2454.76,"body":"great. It was, you know, two and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2454.76,"endTime":2455.18,"body":"a half X."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2455.54,"endTime":2457.46,"body":"How bad"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2455.54,"endTime":2457.46,"body":"was it? Two and a half x is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2458.42,"endTime":2461.08,"body":"pretty bad,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2458.42,"endTime":2461.08,"body":"delivered about seven years"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2461.08,"endTime":2464.32,"body":"late. Both reactors, three and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2461.08,"endTime":2464.32,"body":"four were delivered seven years"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2464.32,"endTime":2468.16,"body":"late. There was also a sister"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2464.32,"endTime":2468.16,"body":"project that got canceled along"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2468.16,"endTime":2471.04,"body":"the way because it wasn't deemed"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2468.16,"endTime":2471.04,"body":"affordable, but that project had"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2471.04,"endTime":2475.96,"body":"already spent $9 billion Wow. So"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2471.04,"endTime":2475.96,"body":"in addition to the overage on"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2475.96,"endTime":2480.04,"body":"voltal three and four, the VC"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2475.96,"endTime":2480.04,"body":"summer project, you know, adds"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2480.04,"endTime":2482.64,"body":"$9 billion dollars to that price"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2480.04,"endTime":2482.64,"body":"tag you have, you know,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2483.12,"endTime":2487.44,"body":"taxpayers carrying almost an"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2483.12,"endTime":2487.44,"body":"additional $30 billion versus"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2487.44,"endTime":2489.72,"body":"what they thought they were."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2487.44,"endTime":2489.72,"body":"It's taxpayers and rate payers,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2489.72,"endTime":2493.08,"body":"right? Because eventually all"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2489.72,"endTime":2493.08,"body":"these things are owned by like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2493.08,"endTime":2496.56,"body":"consortia, whose job is to sell"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2493.08,"endTime":2496.56,"body":"electricity, and the way that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2496.56,"endTime":2499.86,"body":"they recover the cost for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2496.56,"endTime":2499.86,"body":"building, the thing is with"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2499.86,"endTime":2503.78,"body":"their rates, right? So nuclear"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2499.86,"endTime":2503.78,"body":"is still a high rate way to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2503.78,"endTime":2505.82,"body":"generate electricity. It's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2503.78,"endTime":2505.82,"body":"expensive."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2505.939,"endTime":2508.339,"body":"Yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2505.939,"endTime":2508.339,"body":"is. And some of the so the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2508.459,"endTime":2514.099,"body":"causes of the delays were like,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2508.459,"endTime":2514.099,"body":"there was a design that that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2514.099,"endTime":2518.719,"body":"existed on paper only. There"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2514.099,"endTime":2518.719,"body":"were coolant pumps that had to"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2518.719,"endTime":2522.399,"body":"be fixed. They had it took time."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2518.719,"endTime":2522.399,"body":"There was a bankruptcy involved,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2522.459,"endTime":2525.939,"body":"yeah, I don't know, unpack some"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2522.459,"endTime":2525.939,"body":"of those and like, how would you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2525.939,"endTime":2529.899,"body":"have planned look as as a time"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2525.939,"endTime":2529.899,"body":"travel? How would you have"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2529.899,"endTime":2534.819,"body":"planned running the PMO for some"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2529.899,"endTime":2534.819,"body":"of these what seemed like"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2534.819,"endTime":2538.119,"body":"obvious delays. Now that were,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2534.819,"endTime":2538.119,"body":"you know, time travelers,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2538.24,"endTime":2540.1,"body":"yeah, yeah. As"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2538.24,"endTime":2540.1,"body":"Time Travelers, they do seem"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2540.1,"endTime":2544.02,"body":"obvious. But you know, again, at"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2540.1,"endTime":2544.02,"body":"the time, you know it should not"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2544.02,"endTime":2546.96,"body":"have been impossible to predict"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2544.02,"endTime":2546.96,"body":"that, maybe not these specific"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2546.96,"endTime":2551.4,"body":"things, but something would drag"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2546.96,"endTime":2551.4,"body":"your schedule down. Right? Now,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2552.3,"endTime":2554.94,"body":"there's an old saw, an ounce of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2552.3,"endTime":2554.94,"body":"prevention is worth a pound of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2554.94,"endTime":2559.08,"body":"cure, right? Right? That is true"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2554.94,"endTime":2559.08,"body":"in project space. It absolutely"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2559.08,"endTime":2563.84,"body":"is so when you are when you have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2559.08,"endTime":2563.84,"body":"a risk first footing for a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2563.84,"endTime":2567.8,"body":"project like this, I mean, the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2563.84,"endTime":2567.8,"body":"core thing to talk about on this"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2567.8,"endTime":2572.0,"body":"project is first of a kind,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2567.8,"endTime":2572.0,"body":"right? It's building a unique,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2572.12,"endTime":2575.96,"body":"novel design that no one has"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2572.12,"endTime":2575.96,"body":"ever built before, like this"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2575.96,"endTime":2580.78,"body":"particular generation of reactor"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2575.96,"endTime":2580.78,"body":"is like two or three generations"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2580.84,"endTime":2583.96,"body":"more recent than the last one"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2580.84,"endTime":2583.96,"body":"that was built in the US. So"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2584.38,"endTime":2587.86,"body":"anybody, even if you did have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2584.38,"endTime":2587.86,"body":"people on the project team who"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2587.86,"endTime":2593.44,"body":"had built, like a Westinghouse"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2587.86,"endTime":2593.44,"body":"reactor back in the 60s, right,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2593.44,"endTime":2596.68,"body":"even if you did have those"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2593.44,"endTime":2596.68,"body":"people, there's very, very few"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2596.68,"endTime":2598.9,"body":"similarities, other than the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2596.68,"endTime":2598.9,"body":"fact that they both involve"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2598.9,"endTime":2601.8,"body":"nuclear fission between, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2598.9,"endTime":2601.8,"body":"know, a reactor design like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2601.8,"endTime":2604.2,"body":"that, and one like, what they"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2601.8,"endTime":2604.2,"body":"were actually trying to build,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2604.26,"endTime":2606.42,"body":"which was the Westinghouse AP,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2604.26,"endTime":2606.42,"body":"1000"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2607.319,"endTime":2609.359,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2607.319,"endTime":2609.359,"body":"that's actually, you bring up a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2609.359,"endTime":2613.379,"body":"good point, which is that some"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2609.359,"endTime":2613.379,"body":"of these projects are literally,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2613.379,"endTime":2618.599,"body":"like, the career of an"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2613.379,"endTime":2618.599,"body":"individual, yeah. And if they,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2618.659,"endTime":2623.059,"body":"you know, if they span longer,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2618.659,"endTime":2623.059,"body":"you know, then, then the career"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2623.059,"endTime":2626.299,"body":"like, what are we How do you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2623.059,"endTime":2626.299,"body":"manage that kind of risk when,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2626.299,"endTime":2630.079,"body":"when the timeline is so long"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2626.299,"endTime":2630.079,"body":"that you've got new people that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2630.079,"endTime":2632.779,"body":"are coming on, you're replacing,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2630.079,"endTime":2632.779,"body":"you know, people on the team,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2632.779,"endTime":2635.299,"body":"etc. Like, how do you approach"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2632.779,"endTime":2635.299,"body":"that? What are your What are"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2635.299,"endTime":2638.059,"body":"your thoughts or frameworks"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2635.299,"endTime":2638.059,"body":"around now, the, the first"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2638.24,"endTime":2640.04,"body":"thing to think"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2638.24,"endTime":2640.04,"body":"about here is that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2640.04,"endTime":2642.7,"body":"we're talking about like rate"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2640.04,"endTime":2642.7,"body":"payers and actually having to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2642.7,"endTime":2645.16,"body":"buy electricity, and that's how"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2642.7,"endTime":2645.16,"body":"you make your money back on a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2645.16,"endTime":2648.88,"body":"project like this one. I think"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2645.16,"endTime":2648.88,"body":"it's important to note here that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2648.94,"endTime":2652.78,"body":"any time your job when you're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2648.94,"endTime":2652.78,"body":"making a project is to sell"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2652.78,"endTime":2656.92,"body":"something at the end of it, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2652.78,"endTime":2656.92,"body":"should spend basically however"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2656.92,"endTime":2660.3,"body":"much it costs to accelerate your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2656.92,"endTime":2660.3,"body":"schedule. In the case of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2660.3,"endTime":2663.42,"body":"something like this, this"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2660.3,"endTime":2663.42,"body":"project clocked in seven years"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2663.42,"endTime":2666.54,"body":"late, and I'd be willing to bet"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2663.42,"endTime":2666.54,"body":"that a very, very large"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2666.54,"endTime":2669.6,"body":"percentage of the extra cost"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2666.54,"endTime":2669.6,"body":"that came along with that was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2669.6,"endTime":2676.08,"body":"driven by that schedule. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2669.6,"endTime":2676.08,"body":"for example, there were over 180"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2677.28,"endTime":2680.6,"body":"design changes that required"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2677.28,"endTime":2680.6,"body":"regulatory approval submitted"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2680.6,"endTime":2684.68,"body":"during the course of this"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2680.6,"endTime":2684.68,"body":"project. Okay, now you know what"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2684.68,"endTime":2688.7,"body":"you don't have to do change a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2684.68,"endTime":2688.7,"body":"design if you've already gotten"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2689.0,"endTime":2692.9,"body":"all of those elements approved,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2689.0,"endTime":2692.9,"body":"right? Like, I'm not enough of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2692.9,"endTime":2695.84,"body":"an expert. I'm not an expert at"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2692.9,"endTime":2695.84,"body":"all in the design of nuclear"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2695.84,"endTime":2698.24,"body":"reactors. Okay? So I could, I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2695.84,"endTime":2698.24,"body":"couldn't tell you what all 180"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2699.02,"endTime":2701.8,"body":"design changes were in. And how"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2699.02,"endTime":2701.8,"body":"many of them were valid, okay?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2702.16,"endTime":2705.1,"body":"But I can tell you that this is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2702.16,"endTime":2705.1,"body":"the sign of a project that just"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2705.1,"endTime":2708.28,"body":"didn't spend enough time doing"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2705.1,"endTime":2708.28,"body":"its own homework, right, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2708.58,"endTime":2711.58,"body":"So, you know, plus, like, the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2708.58,"endTime":2711.58,"body":"the contractor involved in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2711.58,"endTime":2714.28,"body":"building it, like I mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2711.58,"endTime":2714.28,"body":"it was a Westinghouse design."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2715.3,"endTime":2717.76,"body":"Westinghouse went bankrupt over"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2715.3,"endTime":2717.76,"body":"the course of the project"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2717.76,"endTime":2720.78,"body":"execution. The risk of that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2717.76,"endTime":2720.78,"body":"happening is present on every"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2720.78,"endTime":2723.72,"body":"large project. Like, that's one"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2720.78,"endTime":2723.72,"body":"of the things I screen for when"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2723.72,"endTime":2727.02,"body":"I'm screening risk registers for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2723.72,"endTime":2727.02,"body":"quality, is I look like, Do you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2727.02,"endTime":2730.38,"body":"have a contractor insolvency"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2727.02,"endTime":2730.38,"body":"risk here, right? Because it's a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2730.38,"endTime":2733.14,"body":"real problem, and it affects"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2730.38,"endTime":2733.14,"body":"projects pretty dramatically,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2733.14,"endTime":2736.08,"body":"like it did this one, because"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2733.14,"endTime":2736.08,"body":"this was initially priced out as"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2736.08,"endTime":2739.56,"body":"a fixed price model, which"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2736.08,"endTime":2739.56,"body":"literally drove the contractor"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2739.56,"endTime":2743.18,"body":"bankrupt and forced the, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2739.56,"endTime":2743.18,"body":"know, the government, to switch"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2743.18,"endTime":2747.92,"body":"to what's called a Cost Plus"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2743.18,"endTime":2747.92,"body":"model, right? So cost plus is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2747.92,"endTime":2752.48,"body":"basically, I have a contractor"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2747.92,"endTime":2752.48,"body":"spend $1 my markup is 10% so you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2752.48,"endTime":2758.42,"body":"pay me $1.10 Right, right? So it"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2752.48,"endTime":2758.42,"body":"puts all of the risk onto the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2758.54,"endTime":2761.5,"body":"owner, operator organization,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2758.54,"endTime":2761.5,"body":"and and removes all the risk"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2761.5,"endTime":2764.14,"body":"from the contractor, which was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2761.5,"endTime":2764.14,"body":"the purpose of making that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2764.14,"endTime":2768.46,"body":"change, yeah. But then, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2764.14,"endTime":2768.46,"body":"know, as somebody who is, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2768.46,"endTime":2773.14,"body":"know, I don't have to buy my"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2768.46,"endTime":2773.14,"body":"power from this particular, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2773.14,"endTime":2776.8,"body":"know, reactor, but if I did, I'd"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2773.14,"endTime":2776.8,"body":"be pretty sore about the fact"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2776.8,"endTime":2781.2,"body":"that I bailed out, you know,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2776.8,"endTime":2781.2,"body":"giant electric company at my out"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2781.2,"endTime":2784.44,"body":"of my own pocket, and I'm going"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2781.2,"endTime":2784.44,"body":"to continue doing that for the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2784.44,"endTime":2785.46,"body":"rest of time."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2785.88,"endTime":2789.66,"body":"So what"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2785.88,"endTime":2789.66,"body":"about the, you know, fixes, and"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2789.66,"endTime":2792.9,"body":"you know, we talk about, there's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2789.66,"endTime":2792.9,"body":"coolant pumps that have to be"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2792.96,"endTime":2796.26,"body":"recorded, yeah? Like, what walk"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2792.96,"endTime":2796.26,"body":"me through? What was it? And"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2796.26,"endTime":2801.26,"body":"then, you know, maybe, is there"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2796.26,"endTime":2801.26,"body":"a way that you can, having"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2801.26,"endTime":2806.3,"body":"looked at the data, say, like,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2801.26,"endTime":2806.3,"body":"how would you approach sort of"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2806.3,"endTime":2809.6,"body":"planning for that and making"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2806.3,"endTime":2809.6,"body":"sure that you allocated?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2809.78,"endTime":2813.08,"body":"I'm gonna bet. I'm"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2809.78,"endTime":2813.08,"body":"gonna make two bets here. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2813.08,"endTime":2817.34,"body":"I'm gonna bet. Okay, two things."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2813.08,"endTime":2817.34,"body":"One, I'm going to bet that some"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2817.34,"endTime":2820.36,"body":"risk like this existed in their"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2817.34,"endTime":2820.36,"body":"risk register, or at the very"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2820.36,"endTime":2823.0,"body":"least in the minds of the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2820.36,"endTime":2823.0,"body":"estimators and project managers"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2823.0,"endTime":2826.48,"body":"at the time, right? I will not"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2823.0,"endTime":2826.48,"body":"take that bet. You shouldn't,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2826.48,"endTime":2829.54,"body":"because I'm I can basically"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2826.48,"endTime":2829.54,"body":"guarantee I'm right about this."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2829.54,"endTime":2833.08,"body":"I will not take that bet major"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2829.54,"endTime":2833.08,"body":"components of your project, like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2833.08,"endTime":2836.8,"body":"major technical components,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2833.08,"endTime":2836.8,"body":"failing and needing to go back"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2836.8,"endTime":2839.26,"body":"to the shop for whatever reason"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2836.8,"endTime":2839.26,"body":"and then come back. That is a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2839.26,"endTime":2841.74,"body":"risk. Again. That's another one"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2839.26,"endTime":2841.74,"body":"that I screen for when I'm"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2841.74,"endTime":2844.68,"body":"screening large project risk"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2841.74,"endTime":2844.68,"body":"registers for quality. Is like,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2844.68,"endTime":2847.98,"body":"do you have, like, a procurement"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2844.68,"endTime":2847.98,"body":"failure of some kind on your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2847.98,"endTime":2851.46,"body":"risk register? Is it attached to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2847.98,"endTime":2851.46,"body":"one of your major technical"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2851.46,"endTime":2853.8,"body":"components? Like, are you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2851.46,"endTime":2853.8,"body":"because, like, if you don't do"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2853.8,"endTime":2857.04,"body":"that, you're making unsafe"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2853.8,"endTime":2857.04,"body":"assumptions about how you know"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2857.04,"endTime":2860.96,"body":"solid your your your scope is."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2857.04,"endTime":2860.96,"body":"And this is a first of a kind"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2861.02,"endTime":2864.14,"body":"you're kind of making it up as"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2861.02,"endTime":2864.14,"body":"you go. So you really do need"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2864.14,"endTime":2867.08,"body":"to, you know, hang some pretty"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2864.14,"endTime":2867.08,"body":"beefy risks. So this brings me"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2867.08,"endTime":2871.88,"body":"to bet number two. I bet that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2867.08,"endTime":2871.88,"body":"even though they saw this risk"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2871.88,"endTime":2874.76,"body":"coming, they dramatically"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2871.88,"endTime":2874.76,"body":"underestimated how much it could"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2874.76,"endTime":2877.52,"body":"possibly cost them in terms of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2874.76,"endTime":2877.52,"body":"time and money, right?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2877.76,"endTime":2879.32,"body":"Because,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2877.76,"endTime":2879.32,"body":"and that's probably almost"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2879.32,"endTime":2880.54,"body":"impossible to predict."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2881.14,"endTime":2882.94,"body":"It may be, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2881.14,"endTime":2882.94,"body":"know, again, we're time"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2882.94,"endTime":2885.4,"body":"travelers, so of course, we've"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2882.94,"endTime":2885.4,"body":"got great insight into this"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2885.4,"endTime":2888.34,"body":"right? Like we know that they"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2885.4,"endTime":2888.34,"body":"needed two years to get this fix"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2888.34,"endTime":2892.24,"body":"in, right, and that basically"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2888.34,"endTime":2892.24,"body":"ground the project to a halt"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2892.24,"endTime":2895.54,"body":"because they were already four"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2892.24,"endTime":2895.54,"body":"years into construction. So, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2895.54,"endTime":2898.78,"body":"know, they and when you have to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2895.54,"endTime":2898.78,"body":"stop a project for something"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2898.78,"endTime":2902.64,"body":"that dramatic, yeah, stopping a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2898.78,"endTime":2902.64,"body":"project is really, really"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2902.64,"endTime":2904.86,"body":"difficult. Yeah, restarting it"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2902.64,"endTime":2904.86,"body":"is even more so."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2905.1,"endTime":2907.68,"body":"And I"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2905.1,"endTime":2907.68,"body":"think to use your example from a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2907.92,"endTime":2911.82,"body":"couple projects back in this"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2907.92,"endTime":2911.82,"body":"episode, like as an executive"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2911.82,"endTime":2917.82,"body":"sponsor, you know, it's my job"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2911.82,"endTime":2917.82,"body":"to sort of ask more general"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2917.82,"endTime":2921.56,"body":"questions about the risk. So"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2917.82,"endTime":2921.56,"body":"what happens if you know, our"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2921.56,"endTime":2925.64,"body":"supply chain breaks down. What"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2921.56,"endTime":2925.64,"body":"happens if these, you know, the,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2926.42,"endTime":2930.26,"body":"you know, the pieces don't all"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2926.42,"endTime":2930.26,"body":"fit together? You know, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2930.26,"endTime":2933.14,"body":"going to ask you about a rate, a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2930.26,"endTime":2933.14,"body":"cooler, and I'm just going to"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2933.14,"endTime":2936.8,"body":"ask you, like, do the Legos fit?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2933.14,"endTime":2936.8,"body":"Like, yeah. And what happens if"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2936.8,"endTime":2938.42,"body":"they don't? Well, that whatever"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2936.8,"endTime":2938.42,"body":"it"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2938.42,"endTime":2941.26,"body":"is perfect. I wish"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2938.42,"endTime":2941.26,"body":"project executive ask questions"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2941.26,"endTime":2943.72,"body":"like that makes that's the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2941.26,"endTime":2943.72,"body":"perfect question to ask, like,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2943.78,"endTime":2944.02,"body":"on my"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2944.02,"endTime":2945.7,"body":"way up."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2944.02,"endTime":2945.7,"body":"That's right, yeah, I'm gonna go"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2945.7,"endTime":2947.68,"body":"from marketing into project"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2945.7,"endTime":2947.68,"body":"Exec."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2948.34,"endTime":2950.5,"body":"Pretty soon, I'm"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2948.34,"endTime":2950.5,"body":"gonna be going hat in hand to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2950.5,"endTime":2953.38,"body":"Nate being like, please have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2950.5,"endTime":2953.38,"body":"some money for my project."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2953.38,"endTime":2955.0,"body":"And I'm"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2953.38,"endTime":2955.0,"body":"rubber stamping everybody's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2955.0,"endTime":2960.16,"body":"face. I don't know what that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2955.0,"endTime":2960.16,"body":"means, approved across the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2960.16,"endTime":2963.24,"body":"forehead, approved, or worse, or"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2960.16,"endTime":2963.24,"body":"denied?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2963.84,"endTime":2966.84,"body":"Yeah, the rejected"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2963.84,"endTime":2966.84,"body":"backwards, so you can see it in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2966.84,"endTime":2967.74,"body":"the mirror every morning."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2968.04,"endTime":2970.32,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2968.04,"endTime":2970.32,"body":"right. So you're so you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2970.32,"endTime":2973.74,"body":"say, so you're gonna praise me"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":2970.32,"endTime":2973.74,"body":"in my my elucidation,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2973.86,"endTime":2976.14,"body":"Yeah, indeed,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2973.86,"endTime":2976.14,"body":"because it was a, it's a, it's,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2976.14,"endTime":2978.72,"body":"it's exactly the kind of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2976.14,"endTime":2978.72,"body":"question that I'm talking about."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2978.72,"endTime":2981.5,"body":"Like it's generic, but not"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2978.72,"endTime":2981.5,"body":"generic enough, like, the truly"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2981.5,"endTime":2984.74,"body":"generic version of that would"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2981.5,"endTime":2984.74,"body":"be, sorry, it's generic, but"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2984.74,"endTime":2987.38,"body":"it's not too generic, because if"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2984.74,"endTime":2987.38,"body":"you take it one level of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2987.38,"endTime":2990.74,"body":"abstraction higher, then you're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2987.38,"endTime":2990.74,"body":"asking a question like, well,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2990.74,"endTime":2995.12,"body":"could it run over? And the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2990.74,"endTime":2995.12,"body":"answer is yes, right? But the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2995.12,"endTime":2999.08,"body":"way you phrased it is good for,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2995.12,"endTime":2999.08,"body":"like, driving technical"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2999.08,"endTime":3001.86,"body":"conversation. So. You ask a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":2999.08,"endTime":3001.86,"body":"question like that. It's like,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3001.86,"endTime":3005.64,"body":"you know, throwing something"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3001.86,"endTime":3005.64,"body":"into the ring right while"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3005.64,"endTime":3007.98,"body":"there's a fight going on and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3005.64,"endTime":3007.98,"body":"just watching the chaos happen."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3007.98,"endTime":3009.9,"body":"Like, you don't have to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3007.98,"endTime":3009.9,"body":"participate in the fight, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3009.9,"endTime":3012.9,"body":"can just watch right? Yeah, but"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3009.9,"endTime":3012.9,"body":"that's what your job is, to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3012.9,"endTime":3015.6,"body":"create chaos in your project"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3012.9,"endTime":3015.6,"body":"team. As a project executive,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3015.6,"endTime":3017.58,"body":"like you're supposed to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3015.6,"endTime":3017.58,"body":"challenge them. You're supposed"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3017.58,"endTime":3019.68,"body":"to make them think hard"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3017.58,"endTime":3019.68,"body":"questions that they haven't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3019.68,"endTime":3022.14,"body":"thought of before. So if you ask"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3019.68,"endTime":3022.14,"body":"them, like, what happens if all"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3022.14,"endTime":3025.22,"body":"this stuff doesn't stuff doesn't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3022.14,"endTime":3025.22,"body":"fit together? I mean, if they"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3025.22,"endTime":3027.86,"body":"hadn't included that risk in the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3025.22,"endTime":3027.86,"body":"risk register, of like, well,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3027.86,"endTime":3030.68,"body":"there's going to be integration"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3027.86,"endTime":3030.68,"body":"failures, or a major component"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3030.74,"endTime":3033.5,"body":"has to be returned and replaced."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3030.74,"endTime":3033.5,"body":"Like, by the way, the pump that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3033.5,"endTime":3036.02,"body":"came back to them. I don't know"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3033.5,"endTime":3036.02,"body":"this for sure, but I'd be"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3036.02,"endTime":3038.24,"body":"willing to bet that there were"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3036.02,"endTime":3038.24,"body":"at least some technical"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3038.24,"endTime":3040.66,"body":"differences that had knock on"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3038.24,"endTime":3040.66,"body":"effects to other parts of the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3040.66,"endTime":3043.9,"body":"design, right? No doubt. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3040.66,"endTime":3043.9,"body":"So by the time they actually got"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3043.9,"endTime":3046.84,"body":"it back and started integrating,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3043.9,"endTime":3046.84,"body":"the reason why it took two years"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3046.84,"endTime":3049.48,"body":"isn't because it's hard to hook"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3046.84,"endTime":3049.48,"body":"a pump up, is because there was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3049.48,"endTime":3053.62,"body":"a lot of other stuff to do,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3049.48,"endTime":3053.62,"body":"right? And you don't get to a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3053.62,"endTime":3056.5,"body":"seven year delay on your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3053.62,"endTime":3056.5,"body":"schedule without having missed"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3056.5,"endTime":3059.68,"body":"some of those, right, right? So"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3056.5,"endTime":3059.68,"body":"asking that question early"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3059.92,"endTime":3063.3,"body":"letting the knife fight get"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3059.92,"endTime":3063.3,"body":"started. You know, you don't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3063.36,"endTime":3065.76,"body":"approve a project until the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3063.36,"endTime":3065.76,"body":"knife fight is over and you have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3065.76,"endTime":3067.26,"body":"a winner in the ring, right?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3067.26,"endTime":3069.24,"body":"So, so"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3067.26,"endTime":3069.24,"body":"what do you you've done"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3069.24,"endTime":3073.86,"body":"quantitative or risk assessments"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3069.24,"endTime":3073.86,"body":"before you like, you've, you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3073.86,"endTime":3077.16,"body":"know, optimized contingency that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3073.86,"endTime":3077.16,"body":"you're talking about, right?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3077.4,"endTime":3080.24,"body":"Yeah. Like, what do you think"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3077.4,"endTime":3080.24,"body":"their risk register looked like"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3080.24,"endTime":3082.04,"body":"in, you know, 2016"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3084.8,"endTime":3088.22,"body":"too short to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3084.8,"endTime":3088.22,"body":"numbers too small. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3088.28,"endTime":3088.7,"body":"that's,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3088.88,"endTime":3090.5,"body":"that's the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3088.88,"endTime":3090.5,"body":"kind of generalization that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3090.5,"endTime":3091.58,"body":"we're talking exactly."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3091.58,"endTime":3095.36,"body":"I mean, like, if"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3091.58,"endTime":3095.36,"body":"you're embarking on, okay, so"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3095.36,"endTime":3100.12,"body":"good rule of thumb, if you are"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3095.36,"endTime":3100.12,"body":"embarking on a project of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3100.12,"endTime":3103.36,"body":"massive complexity, your risk"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3100.12,"endTime":3103.36,"body":"register should have hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3103.36,"endTime":3107.44,"body":"things in it. Okay? Over 100 is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3103.36,"endTime":3107.44,"body":"a good benchmark. So like, if"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3107.44,"endTime":3110.08,"body":"somebody hands me a risk"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3107.44,"endTime":3110.08,"body":"register for a make a project,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3110.8,"endTime":3113.5,"body":"and they're like, We want to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3110.8,"endTime":3113.5,"body":"spend, you know, $26 billion"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3113.98,"endTime":3116.56,"body":"building a new reactor. And"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3113.98,"endTime":3116.56,"body":"here's our five risks, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3116.56,"endTime":3119.38,"body":"to be like, go home, come back."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3116.56,"endTime":3119.38,"body":"When you're serious about this,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3119.38,"endTime":3121.74,"body":"you have not done your homework,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3119.38,"endTime":3121.74,"body":"you have not thought through the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3121.74,"endTime":3125.22,"body":"risks, do some research and come"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3121.74,"endTime":3125.22,"body":"back when you're ready, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3125.4,"endTime":3128.52,"body":"Like I have a personal rule to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3125.4,"endTime":3128.52,"body":"save myself time when I'm"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3128.52,"endTime":3132.06,"body":"reviewing something and that is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3128.52,"endTime":3132.06,"body":"so obviously broken that it just"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3132.06,"endTime":3134.76,"body":"needs to be started from the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3132.06,"endTime":3134.76,"body":"ground up. I don't finish the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3134.76,"endTime":3137.04,"body":"review. I hand it back to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3134.76,"endTime":3137.04,"body":"people, and I say, you need to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3137.04,"endTime":3141.08,"body":"do a better job. I shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3137.04,"endTime":3141.08,"body":"have to tell you in the ways in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3141.08,"endTime":3144.32,"body":"which you are failing right now,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3141.08,"endTime":3144.32,"body":"because I'm one page into your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3144.32,"endTime":3147.44,"body":"10 page document, I already know"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3144.32,"endTime":3147.44,"body":"that you did not hit the mark,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3147.5,"endTime":3150.02,"body":"right? Yeah. So I'll give some"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3147.5,"endTime":3150.02,"body":"high level notes. Ask the kinds"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3150.02,"endTime":3152.48,"body":"of questions you asked, let"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3150.02,"endTime":3152.48,"body":"people go back and come back."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3152.48,"endTime":3155.0,"body":"And it's amazing how risk"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3152.48,"endTime":3155.0,"body":"registers. Go from 10 risks to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3155.0,"endTime":3156.98,"body":"100 risks when you make"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3155.0,"endTime":3156.98,"body":"challenges like"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3156.98,"endTime":3159.62,"body":"that one."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3156.98,"endTime":3159.62,"body":"Yeah, right. But here, here's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3159.8,"endTime":3163.42,"body":"the so my theory, right? Like"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3159.8,"endTime":3163.42,"body":"I'm listening to you talk, and I"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3163.42,"endTime":3166.84,"body":"think that the most, actually,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3163.42,"endTime":3166.84,"body":"all these projects that we've"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3166.84,"endTime":3173.08,"body":"talked about, right? They, they"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3166.84,"endTime":3173.08,"body":"someone confused, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3173.38,"endTime":3177.46,"body":"approvability of the project"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3173.38,"endTime":3177.46,"body":"with the deliverability of the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3177.46,"endTime":3181.8,"body":"project, right? They, that's the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3177.46,"endTime":3181.8,"body":"strategic misrepresentation,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3181.8,"endTime":3185.4,"body":"right? And they, they confuse"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3181.8,"endTime":3185.4,"body":"those two, you know, they built"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3185.4,"endTime":3188.88,"body":"these risk registers or"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3185.4,"endTime":3188.88,"body":"schedules that, just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3189.12,"endTime":3193.92,"body":"in hindsight, were unachievable"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3189.12,"endTime":3193.92,"body":"or or, you know. So what is the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3193.92,"endTime":3194.52,"body":"anecdote"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3194.52,"endTime":3197.82,"body":"to that? Well, I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3194.52,"endTime":3197.82,"body":"would say, before I get into"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3197.82,"endTime":3201.86,"body":"anecdote, yeah, antidote and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3197.82,"endTime":3201.86,"body":"anecdote, a story and yeah,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3202.7,"endTime":3206.0,"body":"antidote. We're telling an"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3202.7,"endTime":3206.0,"body":"anecdote about antidotes."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3206.0,"endTime":3207.68,"body":"What's an"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3206.0,"endTime":3207.68,"body":"anecdote? Albert,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3209.42,"endTime":3213.2,"body":"well, before I go"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3209.42,"endTime":3213.2,"body":"there, a good antidote, yeah."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3213.26,"endTime":3215.84,"body":"Well, thank you for restarting"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3213.26,"endTime":3215.84,"body":"this for the third time. But"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3216.8,"endTime":3220.84,"body":"before I go there, I want to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3216.8,"endTime":3220.84,"body":"draw a distinction here between"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3221.14,"endTime":3224.5,"body":"strategic misrepresentation,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3221.14,"endTime":3224.5,"body":"right, which was definitely"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3224.5,"endTime":3227.5,"body":"going on in the Big Dig to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3224.5,"endTime":3227.5,"body":"something else, like it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3227.5,"endTime":3231.28,"body":"kind of, I wouldn't even call it"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3227.5,"endTime":3231.28,"body":"it's, it's, it's evil twin,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3231.28,"endTime":3234.4,"body":"because I think strategic"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3231.28,"endTime":3234.4,"body":"misrepresentation, call it evil"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3234.4,"endTime":3239.14,"body":"twin, yeah, but this, but, but"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3234.4,"endTime":3239.14,"body":"that's the evil twin. The more"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3239.14,"endTime":3243.36,"body":"benign twin is optimism bias,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3239.14,"endTime":3243.36,"body":"right? Yes, and we've talked"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3243.36,"endTime":3246.6,"body":"about optimism bias a lot on"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3243.36,"endTime":3246.6,"body":"this show before. But just to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3246.6,"endTime":3250.74,"body":"quickly recap, optimism bias is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3246.6,"endTime":3250.74,"body":"the feeling that you know your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3250.74,"endTime":3254.04,"body":"team, you as a manager, you as"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3250.74,"endTime":3254.04,"body":"an estimator, whatever you're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3254.04,"endTime":3257.94,"body":"just going to do better than the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3254.04,"endTime":3257.94,"body":"last guys, right? That's that's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3257.94,"endTime":3261.08,"body":"what it means. So it is your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3257.94,"endTime":3261.08,"body":"belief that you can do better,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3261.26,"endTime":3265.52,"body":"and that's a great thing to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3261.26,"endTime":3265.52,"body":"have. Like that strong belief in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3265.52,"endTime":3268.82,"body":"your in your team's ability to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3265.52,"endTime":3268.82,"body":"achieve success is great, but it"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3268.82,"endTime":3272.48,"body":"shouldn't translate to your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3268.82,"endTime":3272.48,"body":"numbers. Okay, you should manage"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3272.48,"endTime":3275.72,"body":"your team in an optimistic from"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3272.48,"endTime":3275.72,"body":"an optimistic perspective, from"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3275.72,"endTime":3278.06,"body":"an optimistic footing, like,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3275.72,"endTime":3278.06,"body":"manage them like they are rock"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3278.06,"endTime":3282.28,"body":"stars. But, you know, a rock"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3278.06,"endTime":3282.28,"body":"stars need a lot of maintenance,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3282.52,"endTime":3286.42,"body":"and you that doesn't mean that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3282.52,"endTime":3286.42,"body":"you're going to, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3286.42,"endTime":3288.58,"body":"average project performs"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3286.42,"endTime":3288.58,"body":"averagely, and the average"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3288.58,"endTime":3291.28,"body":"project goes way, way over. So"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3288.58,"endTime":3291.28,"body":"why would you think that you're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3291.28,"endTime":3293.86,"body":"going to be better than that?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3291.28,"endTime":3293.86,"body":"You won't be right, right, like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3294.04,"endTime":3298.36,"body":"there's and the more unique your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3294.04,"endTime":3298.36,"body":"project is, the more time has"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3298.36,"endTime":3301.08,"body":"passed since last time it was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3298.36,"endTime":3301.08,"body":"done. The fewer members of your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3301.08,"endTime":3303.78,"body":"team have built one of these"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3301.08,"endTime":3303.78,"body":"things before, the higher those"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3303.78,"endTime":3307.68,"body":"chances are that your optimistic"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3303.78,"endTime":3307.68,"body":"estimate is going to be not just"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3307.68,"endTime":3310.62,"body":"wrong, but dead wrong to the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3307.68,"endTime":3310.62,"body":"tune of hundreds of percent"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3310.68,"endTime":3310.92,"body":"right,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3310.92,"endTime":3313.62,"body":"and that,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3310.92,"endTime":3313.62,"body":"that is the cure, folks,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3313.62,"endTime":3316.08,"body":"that's the cure."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3313.62,"endTime":3316.08,"body":"Yeah, you have to dial that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3316.08,"endTime":3320.18,"body":"optimism bias back right, and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3316.08,"endTime":3320.18,"body":"you have to control for it like"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3320.18,"endTime":3324.26,"body":"the the UK has a published"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3320.18,"endTime":3324.26,"body":"estimating manuals that are"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3324.26,"endTime":3327.14,"body":"pretty darn good. And the the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3324.26,"endTime":3327.14,"body":"green book is kind of like the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3327.14,"endTime":3330.92,"body":"the colloquial name for the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3327.14,"endTime":3330.92,"body":"estimating guidelines there. So"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3331.04,"endTime":3333.74,"body":"they released a supplement"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3331.04,"endTime":3333.74,"body":"specifically to combat optimism"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3333.74,"endTime":3337.28,"body":"bias that has a lot of really"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3333.74,"endTime":3337.28,"body":"interesting data in it. But it"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3337.28,"endTime":3340.22,"body":"basically boils down to like,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3337.28,"endTime":3340.22,"body":"you're adding 100% to most"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3340.22,"endTime":3344.44,"body":"project estimates early on."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3340.22,"endTime":3344.44,"body":"Like, if Votel comes back to me"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3344.44,"endTime":3348.04,"body":"and says, you know, hey, 14"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3344.44,"endTime":3348.04,"body":"billion bucks, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3348.04,"endTime":3351.52,"body":"get this thing done. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3348.04,"endTime":3351.52,"body":"don't have to think for a moment"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3351.52,"endTime":3354.16,"body":"before I say, like, Nope, it's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3351.52,"endTime":3354.16,"body":"28 billion. Go back, sharpen"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3354.16,"endTime":3357.04,"body":"your pencils. Figure out why"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3354.16,"endTime":3357.04,"body":"it's 28 billion. When I'm"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3357.04,"endTime":3359.62,"body":"convinced that you've got your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3357.04,"endTime":3359.62,"body":"arms around this, then we'll"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3359.62,"endTime":3363.9,"body":"talk. Right? Yep. So the first"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3359.62,"endTime":3363.9,"body":"blush estimate, especially if"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3363.9,"endTime":3366.18,"body":"you can look at contingency"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3363.9,"endTime":3366.18,"body":"numbers and see them as a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3366.18,"endTime":3368.58,"body":"percent, like they're 10 or"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3366.18,"endTime":3368.58,"body":"lower. For a project like this"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3368.58,"endTime":3371.58,"body":"one, you just don't approve it."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3368.58,"endTime":3371.58,"body":"You just don't, you can't,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3372.0,"endTime":3375.9,"body":"right, no, and like, it's also"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3372.0,"endTime":3375.9,"body":"really tempting to focus this"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3375.9,"endTime":3380.36,"body":"conversation, as we have, on"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3375.9,"endTime":3380.36,"body":"cost. But as I mentioned before,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3380.36,"endTime":3383.72,"body":"like, most common driver for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3380.36,"endTime":3383.72,"body":"cost increase is schedule"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3383.72,"endTime":3387.38,"body":"extension surprise. So you've"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3383.72,"endTime":3387.38,"body":"really got to think hard about"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3387.38,"endTime":3390.5,"body":"your schedule too, and the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3387.38,"endTime":3390.5,"body":"schedule risks, right? Like the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3390.5,"endTime":3393.92,"body":"timeline, if it's going to stay,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3390.5,"endTime":3393.92,"body":"you know, fixed in stone, your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3393.92,"endTime":3396.8,"body":"cost is going to be"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3393.92,"endTime":3396.8,"body":"astronomical. You need some"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3396.8,"endTime":3400.1,"body":"schedule contingency in there to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3396.8,"endTime":3400.1,"body":"absorb the very predictable"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3400.34,"endTime":3403.84,"body":"delays that are going to happen"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3400.34,"endTime":3403.84,"body":"on a first of a kind project,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3404.14,"endTime":3404.56,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3407.44,"endTime":3409.18,"body":"All right,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3407.44,"endTime":3409.18,"body":"Albert, let's wrap up. What's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3409.18,"endTime":3414.76,"body":"your one piece of advice for"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3409.18,"endTime":3414.76,"body":"that executive sponsor who's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3414.76,"endTime":3420.54,"body":"looking at sort of that first"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3414.76,"endTime":3420.54,"body":"estimate, you know that first"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3420.66,"endTime":3422.16,"body":"blush, schedule."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3422.88,"endTime":3425.4,"body":"My piece of advice"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3422.88,"endTime":3425.4,"body":"for them is one I've given on"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3425.4,"endTime":3428.7,"body":"this show before, and that is,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3425.4,"endTime":3428.7,"body":"Do not be afraid of the big"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3428.7,"endTime":3433.74,"body":"number. Okay, like your choice"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3428.7,"endTime":3433.74,"body":"as an executive isn't small"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3433.74,"endTime":3437.52,"body":"number versus big number. It's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3433.74,"endTime":3437.52,"body":"big number now versus bigger"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3437.52,"endTime":3441.92,"body":"number later. Those are your two"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3437.52,"endTime":3441.92,"body":"actual choices, right? All the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3441.92,"endTime":3444.74,"body":"projects we discuss, like the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3441.92,"endTime":3444.74,"body":"Opera House, the Big Dig, the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3444.74,"endTime":3448.4,"body":"Venice, flood barrier, voters,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3444.74,"endTime":3448.4,"body":"three and four, they all have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3448.4,"endTime":3450.98,"body":"something in common, which is"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3448.4,"endTime":3450.98,"body":"that they are unique in their"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3450.98,"endTime":3455.18,"body":"time, right? So if you are an"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3450.98,"endTime":3455.18,"body":"executive and you are looking at"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3455.18,"endTime":3458.18,"body":"a unicorn, do not confuse it for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3455.18,"endTime":3458.18,"body":"a horse."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3459.08,"endTime":3462.04,"body":"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3459.08,"endTime":3462.04,"body":"that's the that's the advice,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3462.04,"endTime":3462.58,"body":"folks,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3462.58,"endTime":3466.6,"body":"that's the advice."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3462.58,"endTime":3466.6,"body":"Lady unicorn, it's not a horse,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3466.66,"endTime":3466.96,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3467.02,"endTime":3469.3,"body":"We also,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3467.02,"endTime":3469.3,"body":"you mentioned some interest in,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3469.72,"endTime":3475.96,"body":"just to add to that too, you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3469.72,"endTime":3475.96,"body":"your pointed advice about asking"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3476.02,"endTime":3480.96,"body":"the general, but not like, super"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3476.02,"endTime":3480.96,"body":"general questions, to start to"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3480.96,"endTime":3484.86,"body":"have some of that. You know,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3480.96,"endTime":3484.86,"body":"technical conversations to spark"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3484.98,"endTime":3488.64,"body":"that conversation is a really"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3484.98,"endTime":3488.64,"body":"good takeaway for, yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3488.64,"endTime":3490.08,"body":"for our listeners, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3490.08,"endTime":3495.18,"body":"I mean, to me, if"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3490.08,"endTime":3495.18,"body":"you're a project executive, it's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3495.18,"endTime":3498.66,"body":"almost, it's almost your"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3495.18,"endTime":3498.66,"body":"responsibility to say no, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3499.02,"endTime":3502.34,"body":"It's, it's the first thing that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3499.02,"endTime":3502.34,"body":"you get from your project team."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3502.34,"endTime":3505.52,"body":"I mean, the data tells us that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3502.34,"endTime":3505.52,"body":"project teams are really, really"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3505.52,"endTime":3509.18,"body":"awful at generating a first pass"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3505.52,"endTime":3509.18,"body":"estimate early in the project"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3509.24,"endTime":3512.72,"body":"right? Every single bit of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3509.24,"endTime":3512.72,"body":"published data from the UK Green"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3512.72,"endTime":3515.36,"body":"Book, supplement about optimism"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3512.72,"endTime":3515.36,"body":"bias that I mentioned earlier,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3515.42,"endTime":3519.32,"body":"to the AAC e cost estimating"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3515.42,"endTime":3519.32,"body":"guidelines, to every single bank"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3519.32,"endTime":3522.64,"body":"of published historical data you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3519.32,"endTime":3522.64,"body":"can imagine, including, again,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3522.64,"endTime":3526.18,"body":"Ben flybergs. That's an appendix"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3522.64,"endTime":3526.18,"body":"to how big things get done. He's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3526.18,"endTime":3528.64,"body":"got a cost appendix there that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3526.18,"endTime":3528.64,"body":"says, Buy industry. Here's how"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3528.64,"endTime":3531.28,"body":"much things go over. Guess what?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3528.64,"endTime":3531.28,"body":"There's very few of them that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3531.28,"endTime":3535.72,"body":"are in single digits. Okay, so"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3531.28,"endTime":3535.72,"body":"when you are talking about a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3535.72,"endTime":3538.6,"body":"first blush estimate as an"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3535.72,"endTime":3538.6,"body":"executive, you probably don't"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3538.6,"endTime":3541.26,"body":"even have to open the envelope"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3538.6,"endTime":3541.26,"body":"and see the number before you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3541.26,"endTime":3544.68,"body":"just say, like, Nope, it's too"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3541.26,"endTime":3544.68,"body":"low. But you haven't even seen"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3544.68,"endTime":3549.12,"body":"our number yet. It's like, but I"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3544.68,"endTime":3549.12,"body":"know it's too low, exactly. So,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3549.36,"endTime":3552.06,"body":"you know, I guess that's my"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3549.36,"endTime":3552.06,"body":"second piece of advice for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3552.06,"endTime":3555.96,"body":"executives, is say no more."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3552.06,"endTime":3555.96,"body":"Yeah, right. Like, it's good"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3555.96,"endTime":3559.02,"body":"advice. Start the knife fight."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3555.96,"endTime":3559.02,"body":"Be don't be afraid to say no."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3559.02,"endTime":3563.96,"body":"Like, force your teams to spend"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3559.02,"endTime":3563.96,"body":"more time figuring things out."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3564.02,"endTime":3569.66,"body":"Right? Number does not go down."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3564.02,"endTime":3569.66,"body":"Number goes up. Guys. Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3569.78,"endTime":3570.38,"body":"that's true."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3570.38,"endTime":3572.0,"body":"Well, that"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3570.38,"endTime":3572.0,"body":"was a good that was good"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3572.0,"endTime":3577.76,"body":"conversation, man. I love the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3572.0,"endTime":3577.76,"body":"the insights on the past"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3577.76,"endTime":3581.14,"body":"projects and yeah, it's easy to"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3577.76,"endTime":3581.14,"body":"be a time traveler and sort of"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3581.14,"endTime":3583.54,"body":"look back, but then it's, you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3581.14,"endTime":3583.54,"body":"know, let's, let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3583.54,"endTime":3586.18,"body":"how it could have gone better."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3583.54,"endTime":3586.18,"body":"But, yeah, it was super"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3586.18,"endTime":3588.7,"body":"interesting. Like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3586.18,"endTime":3588.7,"body":"everything"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3588.7,"endTime":3591.52,"body":"old is new again."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3588.7,"endTime":3591.52,"body":"Shoot, right. We're gonna,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3591.58,"endTime":3593.92,"body":"there's, there's gonna be more"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3591.58,"endTime":3593.92,"body":"big, you know, splashy"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3593.92,"endTime":3597.34,"body":"construction projects. There's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3593.92,"endTime":3597.34,"body":"gonna be more big tunnels to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3597.34,"endTime":3599.56,"body":"replace elevated highways."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3597.34,"endTime":3599.56,"body":"There's gonna be more flood"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3599.56,"endTime":3602.04,"body":"barriers. And there's definitely"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3599.56,"endTime":3602.04,"body":"going to be more nuclear so"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3602.04,"endTime":3604.26,"body":"there are lessons to be taken"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3602.04,"endTime":3604.26,"body":"away from our time travel"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3604.26,"endTime":3605.04,"body":"experience here."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3605.34,"endTime":3607.08,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3605.34,"endTime":3607.08,"body":"before we go, I want to rehash"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3607.08,"endTime":3611.7,"body":"that survey a little bit. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3607.08,"endTime":3611.7,"body":"please talk about our goal is to"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3611.7,"endTime":3616.5,"body":"get to know you our listeners,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3611.7,"endTime":3616.5,"body":"right? We, I don't know if I"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3616.5,"endTime":3619.92,"body":"told you this, but we, we have"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3616.5,"endTime":3619.92,"body":"passed a milestone. Apparently,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3619.92,"endTime":3625.16,"body":"we have 500 downloads now, okay,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3619.92,"endTime":3625.16,"body":"all right, look at us and and we"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3625.22,"endTime":3629.48,"body":"have lasted for over a year,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3625.22,"endTime":3629.48,"body":"which less than 15% of podcasts"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3629.48,"endTime":3633.14,"body":"I read last that long. So you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3629.48,"endTime":3633.14,"body":"know, kudos, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3633.2,"endTime":3635.12,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3633.2,"endTime":3635.12,"body":"That's a milestone, and we want"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3635.12,"endTime":3637.94,"body":"to celebrate that milestone by"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3635.12,"endTime":3637.94,"body":"with you early all of our"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3637.94,"endTime":3639.74,"body":"planning work to you, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3641.06,"endTime":3643.48,"body":"what I"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3641.06,"endTime":3643.48,"body":"really want to talk about is you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3643.48,"endTime":3647.2,"body":"can we want you to participate"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3643.48,"endTime":3647.2,"body":"in a survey. We want to get to"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3647.2,"endTime":3649.9,"body":"know you. We're going to run a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3647.2,"endTime":3649.9,"body":"survey, short, sweet, it's going"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3649.9,"endTime":3653.5,"body":"to find out who you are, what"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3649.9,"endTime":3653.5,"body":"you do, where you do it, who you"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3653.5,"endTime":3658.24,"body":"do it for. We'd love some"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3653.5,"endTime":3658.24,"body":"feedback on our discussion,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3658.24,"endTime":3663.6,"body":"maybe some ideas and topics for"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3658.24,"endTime":3663.6,"body":"the future to address. As Albert"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3663.6,"endTime":3666.48,"body":"said, we want to offload the"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3663.6,"endTime":3666.48,"body":"planning for future episodes to"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3666.48,"endTime":3666.84,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3666.96,"endTime":3670.5,"body":"our listeners."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3666.96,"endTime":3670.5,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And as part of that,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3670.86,"endTime":3675.54,"body":"we are going to ask you to, you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3670.86,"endTime":3675.54,"body":"know, come up with a question or"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3675.54,"endTime":3678.96,"body":"two for us, right? That's right."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3675.54,"endTime":3678.96,"body":"We are going to start including"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3679.2,"endTime":3683.0,"body":"a Q and A component to each of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3679.2,"endTime":3683.0,"body":"these episodes. Or when we have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3683.0,"endTime":3686.3,"body":"a critical mass of questions,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3683.0,"endTime":3686.3,"body":"we'll throw one in there. But we"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3686.3,"endTime":3690.14,"body":"want to understand what you what"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3686.3,"endTime":3690.14,"body":"kinds of questions you'd like us"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3690.14,"endTime":3692.42,"body":"to address. Like, you know, our"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3690.14,"endTime":3692.42,"body":"style now, like, we've got a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3692.42,"endTime":3694.82,"body":"year. I'm sure you got everybody"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3692.42,"endTime":3694.82,"body":"who's listening this far into"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3694.82,"endTime":3698.72,"body":"the podcast is probably a fan of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3694.82,"endTime":3698.72,"body":"podcasts in general. And"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3698.72,"endTime":3699.92,"body":"probably this one too,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3699.98,"endTime":3702.16,"body":"yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3699.98,"endTime":3702.16,"body":"my neighbor, and my neighbor."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3702.4,"endTime":3703.12,"body":"Hey, Dave, so."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3703.18,"endTime":3707.26,"body":"And also another"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3703.18,"endTime":3707.26,"body":"shout out to my dad. Hey, Dad,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3707.32,"endTime":3710.44,"body":"yeah. But, you know, we want to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3707.32,"endTime":3710.44,"body":"hear from the Dave's and dad's"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3710.44,"endTime":3713.08,"body":"of the world, like, what kinds"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3710.44,"endTime":3713.08,"body":"of questions would you like us"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3713.08,"endTime":3715.54,"body":"to answer?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3713.08,"endTime":3715.54,"body":"And and the project managers,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3715.78,"endTime":3718.54,"body":"the, you know, the other PMO"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3715.78,"endTime":3718.54,"body":"directors, like, give us, give"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3718.54,"endTime":3722.52,"body":"us a give Albert, the hard one."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3718.54,"endTime":3722.52,"body":"I'm just here to moderate. I'm"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3722.52,"endTime":3723.6,"body":"the haha funny guy."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3723.66,"endTime":3725.82,"body":"Yeah, throw some"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3723.66,"endTime":3725.82,"body":"softballs to Nate. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3725.82,"endTime":3729.18,"body":"then, like, what do you do for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3725.82,"endTime":3729.18,"body":"fun, Nate? And then Bert. Like,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3729.18,"endTime":3731.94,"body":"why are you so confident that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3729.18,"endTime":3731.94,"body":"you could do vodal Three better?"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3732.24,"endTime":3734.22,"body":"Yes,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3732.24,"endTime":3734.22,"body":"exactly. I'll take the easy"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3734.22,"endTime":3738.24,"body":"ones. So we're gonna, we're"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3734.22,"endTime":3738.24,"body":"gonna post a link to the survey"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3738.24,"endTime":3743.06,"body":"in the show notes. Please. You"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3738.24,"endTime":3743.06,"body":"know, participate, you know,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3743.06,"endTime":3746.84,"body":"give us your honest feedback."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3743.06,"endTime":3746.84,"body":"We're gonna also have, like, a"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3746.84,"endTime":3750.98,"body":"subscribe so we can start to,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3746.84,"endTime":3750.98,"body":"you know, maybe initiate more"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3750.98,"endTime":3757.04,"body":"conversations, you know, with"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3750.98,"endTime":3757.04,"body":"our listeners off the podcast. I"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3757.04,"endTime":3759.26,"body":"don't know what I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3757.04,"endTime":3759.26,"body":"say, Albert, but yeah, we just"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3759.26,"endTime":3763.84,"body":"want to, we want to communicate"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3759.26,"endTime":3763.84,"body":"with you more, more often,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3763.9,"endTime":3766.96,"body":"so places where we"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3763.9,"endTime":3766.96,"body":"find you, so places like we're"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3766.96,"endTime":3770.98,"body":"about to start doing a little"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3766.96,"endTime":3770.98,"body":"bit more with Reddit, right?"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3770.98,"endTime":3773.92,"body":"That's right. So we're going to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3770.98,"endTime":3773.92,"body":"be spending more time kind of"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3773.98,"endTime":3776.92,"body":"engaging with our community"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3773.98,"endTime":3776.92,"body":"where we find them. So LinkedIn,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3776.92,"endTime":3780.1,"body":"Reddit are the two big ones. We"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3776.92,"endTime":3780.1,"body":"may go with other places now,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3780.1,"endTime":3783.18,"body":"but as always, you can find"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3780.1,"endTime":3783.18,"body":"updates about the show on"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3783.18,"endTime":3787.68,"body":"LinkedIn and on riskyplanner.com"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3783.18,"endTime":3787.68,"body":"that's right. So you know, look"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3787.68,"endTime":3793.14,"body":"there for the survey. We'll have"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3787.68,"endTime":3793.14,"body":"we'll be annoying you with links"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3793.14,"endTime":3794.1,"body":"before you know it."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3794.1,"endTime":3797.1,"body":"So that's"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3794.1,"endTime":3797.1,"body":"right. All right, thanks for"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3797.1,"endTime":3799.08,"body":"listening, everybody. Thanks,"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3797.1,"endTime":3799.08,"body":"Albert, yeah."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3799.08,"endTime":3800.88,"body":"Thank you, Nate."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3799.08,"endTime":3800.88,"body":"And thanks to everybody in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3800.88,"endTime":3803.3,"body":"advance for filling out that"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3800.88,"endTime":3803.3,"body":"survey and asking us. Survey and"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3803.3,"endTime":3805.82,"body":"asking us some amazing"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3803.3,"endTime":3805.82,"body":"questions, some easy ones for"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3805.82,"endTime":3806.0,"body":"Nate"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3806.0,"endTime":3808.1,"body":"and some"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3806.0,"endTime":3808.1,"body":"hard ones for me. Definitely."},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3808.34,"endTime":3810.68,"body":"All right, till next time. See"},{"speaker":"Nate Habermeyer, APR","startTime":3808.34,"endTime":3810.68,"body":"you next time."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3810.979,"endTime":3813.859,"body":"Bye. Hey"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3810.979,"endTime":3813.859,"body":"everybody. It's Albert here."},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3813.859,"endTime":3816.679,"body":"Thanks for tuning in to the"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3813.859,"endTime":3816.679,"body":"risky planner podcast. We hope"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3816.679,"endTime":3819.139,"body":"today's conversation was"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3816.679,"endTime":3819.139,"body":"informative and above all else,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3819.139,"endTime":3822.039,"body":"inspires you to excellence in"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3819.139,"endTime":3822.039,"body":"what you do. If you liked"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3822.039,"endTime":3824.679,"body":"today's episode, don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3822.039,"endTime":3824.679,"body":"rate, subscribe and leave a"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3824.679,"endTime":3828.099,"body":"review. It helps us reach more"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3824.679,"endTime":3828.099,"body":"listeners just like you. I'd"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3828.099,"endTime":3830.979,"body":"also like to thank Thompson Igbo"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3828.099,"endTime":3830.979,"body":"Igbo for letting us use his"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3830.979,"endTime":3834.219,"body":"excellent music on our show. If"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3830.979,"endTime":3834.219,"body":"you like what you hear, check"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3834.219,"endTime":3839.859,"body":"him out@igbomusic.com that's E,"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3834.219,"endTime":3839.859,"body":"G, B, O music.com talk to you"},{"speaker":"Albert Brier","startTime":3839.859,"endTime":3840.119,"body":"later. You"}]}