Why Early, Fun Training Builds Calm, Happy Dogs Who Actually Listen

What if your dog’s “bad” behavior is just good behavior in the wrong place? We sit with certified trainer Sara Monro to unpack a kinder, smarter way to shape habits—one that trades stress for clarity and turns small wins into lasting change.

We start with the core idea: dogs do what works. Sara explains how to set the environment so the right choice is the easy choice, then pay it well. You’ll hear why settling on a mat beats constant micromanaging, how clicker timing accelerates learning, and why management matters as much as training. We dig into practical potty strategies, from marking the exact “go” moment to creating a consistent potty spot. For city life, late nights, or unsafe conditions, we explore how Fresh Patch can bridge the gap, keeping routines reliable while you build outdoor habits.

Puppy parents get a roadmap for early socialization—safe exposures during the eight-to-twelve-week window without overdoing greetings or chaos. Multi-dog homes learn how to train dogs one-on-one so focus sticks, not just excitement. We also cover enrichment that replaces the food bowl with sniffing, puzzles, and foraging, so brains and bodies relax. And if you’ve ever wondered when to fade treats, Sara shares how to shift to variable schedules and life rewards without tanking motivation.

From accidents handled without punishment to reading body language before things boil over, this conversation keeps it real and actionable. Bring your questions, a handful of high-value treats, and a mat your dog will love. Subscribe, share with a friend who just brought home a puppy, and leave a review telling us the one habit you’re going to change this week.

Thanks for listening to the Fresh Patch podcast brought to you by Fresh Patch. We hope you enjoyed the show. Give us a like or a follow, or shop all of our real grass supplies at freshpatch.com. Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, Youtube, Reddit

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Welcome everybody to the Potty Tongue podcast presented by Fresh Patch. My name is Drew with my lovely co-host Gabe over there on the other side. And we have an awesome guest today on the podcast. So if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself to the people.

SPEAKER_07 0:34

Yeah, my name is Sarah Monroe.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Sarah Monroe. And what do you specialize in, Sarah?

SPEAKER_07 0:40

I'm a certified professional dog trainer, and I work with dogs and puppies and their people.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

There we go. Yeah. Yes. No, awesome. And you've already given me some tips on Mr. Oakley down there, so I really appreciate it. Even though he's going right back at it right now, but that's okay. We're going to get it figured out by the end of the day, right?

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Yeah, that's definitely like a big reason why we were excited to like excited to have you on today is because we have all these office dogs and they have their little crazy dynamics. So it's been really cool kind of like giving you the walkthrough and getting some insight on why they act the way that they do.

SPEAKER_07 1:13

So a little bit, little bits and pieces. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Cool. And then just for everybody watching or listening, go ahead and hit that subscribe button if you're watching on YouTube, um, Apple Podcasts, Spotify Podcasts, and then give at Fresh Patch a follow on all socials and check out freshpatch.com as well. Check out Sarah's you have socials, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:33

Do you want to I am a social media phob. Fashions of a social media phobe. I'm in process. There we go. So yes. Painful process.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Yeah, it's a it's a big learning curve, honestly. And uh I don't blame you at all. Honestly.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Social media is a beast. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:52

I do have a website. There we go, which is Sarah Monroe Dog Training.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Oh, yeah. Perfect. So go check out her website if you are interested and take sit back, relax, take a listen. We're gonna go through some questions and get to know you and have the audience get to know you and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

So absolutely. And she is local to Santa Barbara. So for those people who have reactive dogs in Santa Barbara, great resource to have here. So check out her website.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Perfect. So yeah, let's just dive into some questions, get to know you. And uh, Gabe, you want to start it off?

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Yeah, absolutely. So let's let's kind of start off with your story. Like um, we were talking earlier, and you mentioned that you actually were originally a cat person. Um tell us a little bit about yourself and then like how you got into dog training.

Hazel’s Story And A Career Shift

SPEAKER_07 2:35

Okay. Um, that's funny. I was a cat person long ago in a previous life, and I still love cats. Uh, and dogs uh came into my life a little bit later. I did have a dog as a child, but as an adult, a dog wandered into my backyard while I was living in the desert. Oh wow. And she was exactly the dog I had imagined. And I hadn't like up to that time, actually, I was barely able to keep plants alive. So, and I was traveling a lot for work, so I didn't have an animal. Um, and uh this dog showed up and um I walked into the backyard to see her because my neighbor said, You have a there's a dog in your yard, and she just immediately put her forehead on my thigh. Oh, yeah, it was Yep. Typical That was the moment, and um and she put it also at one point she put her paw on my foot, and it took me a little while um to decide to keep her, but I kept her, and she was a phenomenal, phenomenal being, and um was really important, I think, in my just development as a human. Yeah, definitely. Honestly.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

That's cool. What kind of what kind of dog was it?

SPEAKER_07 3:53

She was a complete mystery mix, but she was nice. She was about 40 pounds, kind of white cream color, pr ears straight up, curly tail. And uh she looked like my neighbor's dog who was a malamute, white malamute. And I used to go running in the desert with this dog's dog's name was Daisy, and I was sitting on the ground at one point with Daisy tying my shoe, and she had come run over and she sat next to me, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I I was I have we have a relationship. You know, there was that moment I realized that she and I had a thing. We were connected. And um, so I imagine this is what Hazel, the dog that showed up in my yard, looked very much like Daisy. Just a smaller version and with less hair. So um, and uh then Hazel actually was played into why I became a trainer. I was actually in a um in transition phase, and I was I had started walking dogs, so I was doing off-leash pack walks with lots of dogs.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Oh, that's fun.

SPEAKER_07 5:01

Yeah, it was fun, it was super interesting, had a lot of questions about what the what these dogs were up to. And um Hazel died and broke my heart. She had an aggressive hemaggio sarcoma and was gone in three weeks, and in the meat while that was happening, I was studying uh chemistry and statistics and animal behavior and preparing to apply to graduate school somewhere, and I just shifted. And I thought, I really want to do something that I love. And I love dogs, and it felt heart connected, and uh we have movement here, everybody is shifting around because Adriana brother treats us. And if you could only see what was happening over on that side of the room right now.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Some angles might have dog butts.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

It's a dog buttons are being pay, it is payday. Yeah, it is payday, isn't it? Right. Um, but that's cool. So you were out in the desert, so yeah, yeah. You were doing these like off-leash, like kind of package.

Science-Based, Force-Free Methods

SPEAKER_07 6:01

So I wasn't doing those in the desert, but I had come back and I was doing the I know that was probably a tr hard to track all of the chronology of that. But I was doing, I was in Santa Barbara doing these off-leash pack walks at the beach and in a couple of different areas that are great for that sort of thing in Santa Barbara. And um I decided I wanted to study dog training. And I had a friend who was a certified applied animal behaviorist. I connected with her and I just to kind of get some information about like how do I go forward with this. I learned there were different schools, like significantly different schools of thought about training. And I I chose one and I deter I decided to go to the Karen Pryor Academy school Karen Pryor Academy for of training and behavior. That's a lot of syllables. And um and study uh in a six-month program to study the science of dog training. And that's where I started. And actually before that I had taken a behavior pro class. And yeah, I started my business shortly after finishing the KPA program. That was in January of 2016 that I started my business.

SPEAKER_06 7:11

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_07 7:12

Yeah, and since then I've done a variety of other programs and have to maintain my credentials with ongoing education and always webinars and conferences, and I'm in a great mentorship group right now with with a bunch of other behavior professionals, and it's fascinating. There's just it's ongoing, always learning, learning, learning.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

I was gonna say it's really interesting to me that you know, I wonder like how different the training, like the guidelines were like maybe in 2016 as to where they are now. It seems like it would be like shifting a lot.

SPEAKER_07 7:44

So one thing that's ongoing is study of dog cognition and behavior, and there are many people studying genetics and studying how dogs think and behave, and so we're always getting new information about dogs.

SPEAKER_05 7:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 8:00

Right. And uh we also know from a lot of the studies that learning happens when dogs are having fun, when dogs are not stressed, just like humans, right? We're all mammals, right? When we're a little freaked out, we don't learn. And uh we know that um dogs work for they they they work for stuff, they do what works. Yeah, you know, and so whatever that is. So a little while ago, Oliver jumped up here on the sofa, and that was positively reinforcing to him because this is a comfy place. Yeah. So he does that again because that works for him.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_07 8:41

So we know that, and we've known that for a while.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Yeah. Interesting. Very interesting.

How Dogs Learn When Stress-Free

Choosing The Right Trainer

SPEAKER_02 8:45

That's really cool. Yeah. Going back into training and stuff, and you know, when people are looking for for training, what should what should they look for when they're hiring a dog, a dog trainer? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_07 8:57

Uh a transparent uh trainer. I it'd be great to get on the phone with a trainer and just ask them, like, what are the methods? What are their philosophies? Ask them like so what does my what happens to my dog if my dog gets it wrong? For example.

SPEAKER_05 9:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 9:16

Right? And then ask the trainer what kind of uh education they have, what conferences they go to. Um do they what methods and uh equipment do they use? I would recommend force-free reward-based trainer where um please turn.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

It's a revolving door. Oh boy.

SPEAKER_07 9:42

Yeah. So um and I think it's important that a trainer would allow you to observe them at work.

Start Early: Puppies As Sponges

SPEAKER_03 9:51

Yeah, absolutely. Like obviously, like with Fresh Patch, like we are people who buy Fresh Patch, they have dogs of all ages, but a big clientele of ours would be people like potty training their dogs. Right. So, like, in your opinion, is it better to uh start with a trainer at that kind of stage, like the potty training stage, or maybe like wait until you know they're ready to kind of learn more advanced things or like show beh behavioral issues or things like that?

SPEAKER_07 10:18

Yeah, no, I am a strong proponent of starting training off early. And you can start with a puppy at eight weeks. And puppies, I mean, puppies are learning sponges, they are learning constantly, they're learning 24-7. So when they come home, whatever it is that they are doing and they are they're practicing, they're rehearsing, they're getting better at it. So yeah, you want to start then. And um and they learn fast, they learn super fast. Yeah, so you can work with a trainer. There's a lot of people doing DIY stuff. It help having a trainer, having a positive reinforcement trainer on board at that time is very, very helpful. And um, you just you know, treats are super powerful rewards for animals. Yeah, but seriously, and and and understanding though for the puppy, like what particular type of treat, right? Because it's matters to the animal. It's not like I think this is a great treat for a dog. Yeah. Like if I was a dog, I would love that treat. But but not necessarily. So taking the treats and testing them, figuring out which works best for your dog or for your puppy, and yeah, getting to work immediately on the potty training. I think that's one of the first things you want to do because that is one of the things that sends dogs and puppies back to the shelter. And I, you know, yeah, and I think it's great to get in there with the puppies because uh when adolescence hits, I've have been called in with big dogs who are jumping and barking, and they have now long have at their seven months, they're teenagers, and they have already been now jumping on people for five months. So that's a very robust behavior that they've been reinforced positively for over and over again.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_07 11:58

So you can you can still teach a re uh incompatible behavior to jump jumping, but it's so much easier to to teach a sit and to teach a go-to-place, relax on your mat, and to do that early.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

Absolutely. Yeah, and then those are kind of like foundational things too that like you know, if you try to train them right in the beginning, it's you know, hopefully something that they'll carry throughout their entire life is like what they learned at that time.

Foundational Skills: Settle On A Mat

SPEAKER_07 12:24

Yeah, yes. And so there are like relaxing on a mat is a foundational behavior, and it's a really important behavior to teach to um, I think any animal. My dog is 11 and a half. Still, when I put the mat down, whoop, she is she goes right over and lies on it. So that and that's great for people who are coming into your house, you're at the coffee shop, etc. You're you you need a place for your dog to be that they feel comfortable, that they, even if you're in an unfamiliar environment, they're like, Oh, it's my mat. I know exactly what to do on my mat.

SPEAKER_06 12:54

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_07 12:55

So that is foundational. And and also it's you know, i i uh y it's important to train dogs throughout their lives. Like just like us, we didn't finish school, you know, when we were six.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 13:10

Right? We continued or we to for to get some kind of education along the way. And uh dogs like to train, they like to do it works, they like to they like to be positively reinforced.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

For sure. And that's that's something that I've noticed with Oliver's like as he's gotten older, like he continues to pick up new habits and you know, be somewhat receptive to training and new things. And I always found that fascinating.

SPEAKER_07 13:35

Yeah, well, and it's really important for senior dogs, actually. It helps them cognitively. And I have to say, with my dog who's now a senior dog, I've gotten a bit lazy in the last few years, and we we've been waking up and she's kind of like ready to go. And so we've been doing some training in just in my little living room, and she's so psyched. She does spins, she'll do a bow. I taught her to do a high kick, and she's like, Come on, man, let's go. So I and she had you know, she had a very strong learning history with that in the very beginning because she's the dog that I took through school with me.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_07 14:15

And so I I feel like I've kind of um I've been neglecting her a little bit because she's like, you know, you started training me. I went to school with you when I was little, and now I'm not doing it anymore. So yeah, I think that's very important. Also, just on another note, what's also super important for these guys, along with training, like training is not the only piece, is cognitive um enrichment and physical activity. Uh cognitive enrichment are like puzzle toys, scatters, sniffing. Like dogs are natural problem solvers. So throughout their life, we want to give them problems to solve. Uh, like I I'd like to think we we often we love our animals so much, they come into our household and it's almost like we just like say, here's the remote control, have at it. And you know, and like I'm a big proponent of like tossing the food bowls. Excuse me.

Lifelong Training And Enrichment

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Yeah, a little parched. Little frog in your throat.

SPEAKER_07 15:13

Yeah, a little fur ball in the throat. So um, yeah, I'm a big proponent of um giving them things to do and tossing the food bowls. So giving them interactive feeding toys or scatters or snofaris or different things that ways that they can eat. It it just burns off a bunch of their energy and it's pretty easy. And then, of course, physical exercise. And again, back to like how treats are important, like treats for that the dog is motivated by what motivates the dog. What does this dog want or need to do per their genetics? You know, some different dogs need to do different things, and all dogs need to go do the same things, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Yeah, oh yeah, because some dogs are like hunter dogs and like you know, different herders, like shepherds. Yeah, I was gonna say these two dogs, like they're always herding us places, so like they're definitely like their shepherd roots are showing theirs really.

SPEAKER_07 16:08

Like, right. So we might miss. You might like get all this great stuff for your dog to do, and then still your dog is has all this extra energy because they're not getting that, you know. It's like what's their wordle or their spelling bee or their pickleball?

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Yeah, right. Gotcha, gotcha, definitely.

Toss The Bowl: Make Food A Job

SPEAKER_07 16:22

Yeah, um, yeah. And then the other other piece is management and um those are like the three pieces of uh of behavior change and a love learning, and management is preventing animals from doing the stuff from learning the stuff you don't want them to learn, which is back to your fresh patch. Like when your puppy, you know, you bring your puppy or your your rescue dog home, and you want to make sure that you they're gonna go there, that they're not gonna go around the house. So you might create some kind of confinement for them because it's a new place for them, and you're figuring out what their schedule is and when they need to go. And so you would set them up for success and take them out of a confined area and bring them to the the patch and on leash and wait there and be really boring until they go and then heavily reinforce that. Yes, and then the association starts like, oh, this is where I potty, like and there's there's an association right to the space, and there's also it works. I some I get really rewarded for this. Yes, like dad throws a party, and yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

That is actually like that's I'm so glad you said that because we have another dog trainer that says the same thing. She's like, throw a party when they go potty on the patch. I want you to throw a party pretty much, you know, and like reward them, tell them they're a good boy or good girl, and like really reinforce that that is the exact spot. And I like how you mentioned the leash too, and yeah, we we say that a lot, you know, it's just like lead them on the leash at first because this is gonna transition into outside potty and stuff, and just getting them familiar with that is very, very key. So yeah, no, thank you for all that information. Um, and it kind of goes on to our next question a little bit, but um, telling us about your style of dog training and how you implement these things with your actually kind of have been talking about that.

SPEAKER_07 18:06

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 18:08

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 18:09

Yeah, so I it's critical to set dogs up for success. So the first thing is choosing an environment where they can perform what I'm teaching them successfully and repeat it. So if I'm training um I, you know, just starting with a dog, I start at home. I start where they feel safe and comfortable and where I know that there's less distraction. And then I I may have to tweak the environment a little bit. Sometimes the puppy comes out like a puppy comes out of the confinement area and it starts like, oh, check it out. And they want to Yeah, right? It's like, okay, we got to take all the stuff out of confinement, put you back in confinement, and now we're gonna work and then and work you know, work with you. And um so we set the animal up for success so that we can reinforce because it is reinforcement that drives the behavior in the future. Right? So if I can't reinforce, then then I'm not a dog isn't getting feedback, yeah, right? Not getting information. So I want to create an environment environment where they can be successful and then move out from there in in small steps as a dog is successful. So one of the things that's really important to me is that I work at the dog's level. So I'm watching the dog's body language, I'm watching levels of arousal and um capacity to focus, and we work there so that again we can be successful, so I can reinforce and then we can take the next step.

Management, Schedules, And Potty Plans

SPEAKER_03 19:35

It's really interesting you bring that up, like that last part, because it makes me think of something with Oliver. It's funny, I feel like we keep bringing up our responses case scenarios. So a problem that um we sometimes have with him is he loves coming to work, he gets super excited about it. Um and he also hates you know, he has a little bit of separation anxiety as well. So a problem with him is that um you have to like tie. His feeding right. So I usually like I'll try to feed him before I get into the shower. Because if I wait too long to feed him, then he gets really excited and aroused and and like will not I'm like, dude, like please, I want to take you, but you gotta eat your breakfast. And so it kind of like when he's excited like that, he doesn't like to. So it's like it's so interesting thing.

SPEAKER_07 20:22

Yeah, so that's a tell. When a dog who can typically eat isn't eating, you know that they're bumping up against their emotional threshold. They're in stress zone. It's it's like when it's the nervous system, it's a sympathetic nervous system response. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So that's like more a little more of the stress chemicals are floating around in the body. Gotcha. And we've all experienced that, right? When you get nervous, you do not want to eat.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I I struggle with that all the time.

SPEAKER_07 20:52

Yeah. So that yeah. I I used to be a teacher. Oh, there you go. Partially, yes.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

A big thing I feel like in the dog training world these days is like there's kind of the old school thought process of like the Caesar Milans and you know, that kind of style of training, but the new it seems the new and emerging kind of style is this like positive reinforcement. Um I saw on your website that that's something that you really do with dogs.

SPEAKER_07 21:23

Yeah, I do call that out.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

So, like, given that, uh like what like let's say you're potty training them and they have an accident, like with that situation, like how should you approach that?

Accidents Without Punishment

SPEAKER_07 21:36

Yeah, that's a great question. So the dog is having a quote unquote mistake. Well, maybe we could talk about what a mistake is too. Right. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And whose mistake it actually is. But um, yeah, so you just want to you want to interrupt that you might say something not to scare the dog, but maybe you might say outside, then they might stop. You if they're little, you can swoop them up. Otherwise, you can maybe take them out with a lure them with a treat and bring them out to your designated potty area. If it's the fresh patch, bring them there. If it's outside, bring them there. Bring them to the place you want them to go and let them finish going and reward at that place. So sometimes we freak out, right? And we scream and we terrify the dog. Sometimes we also put punish, you know. Some people might yell at the dog or rub the dog's nose in it. And that what that what's just the what that will do is basically teach the dog not to go in front of you, right? So now the dog is choosing behind the chair. Because like you just they just got scared. That was just like um harm to the human-animal bond. That makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

And how could how could they know exactly why you're screwed to their bathroom? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

I'm just relieving themselves like we all do, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

What's wrong with that?

SPEAKER_07 23:00

Yeah, and so that's why identifying a location, bringing their them consistently, anticipating when they have to go so that you can reinforce them when you get there, and then rewarding them and setting them up for success is gonna end run all of that stuff, and anticipate that up to a year, at least for young dogs, up to a year, there could still be, you know, something happening in the house that you didn't want to have happen. So you have to supervise.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 23:27

I think potty training can be can be really simple.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 23:32

If you supervise, if dog is in confinement, and when I say confinement, I don't mean like doggy jail. Yeah, I mean like playpen, yeah, supervision. Think Disneyland for dogs, all the good stuff in there where they're like hanging out and chewing and biting and you know, finding treats. And then then when they're out, they're heavily supervised. And when you go outside with them, you want to make sure you're supervising so that you can catch them getting it right. And you have about a half a second to do that.

SPEAKER_06 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 24:01

Right? So if you wait till your dog runs outside and comes charging up the port to the porch steps order and comes inside and you treat them there, they're like that was kind of maybe you were rewarding some sort of a recall. Yeah, nothing. That's what's nice.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Them going up the steps or something to yeah, that's what they think they're getting rewarded for.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

Another Oliver anecdote there. Like he will sometimes like trap himself places. Oh. And like he's fine. Like he gets stuck? Not that he gets stuck. Quote unquote stuck. And he's pretending to be stuck. Come help me, and then you know, we're like, dude, okay, come on, and we get him out, and then he goes straight to the treats. Like, I did something good, like give me, you know. So that's a that might be where the disconnect is, like what you were just describing.

SPEAKER_07 24:43

Well, dogs, uh you know, this is operant conditioning, dogs do what works. That's right, so whatever works for them is what they're going to do.

SPEAKER_06 24:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 24:51

Right? If like jumping on the counter and grabbing that chocolate cupcake works, and if it worked once, you can bet they will go back and do it again.

SPEAKER_05 25:00

Yes.

Clickers, Markers, And Timing

SPEAKER_07 25:01

Right? So, so back to like also my my training philosophy here is like if you don't want your dog on the counter, countersurfing, then that's a place where you might put a baby gate up or s do something to keep dogs out of the that area because that's they'll they will learn that and they will do it, and they may come back a year later. They may keep checking. Yeah, because the payoff was so good the first time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

That's this guy. He's stolen a few things off my desk. Yeah. He's desk kite. If he's desk kite, yeah. If it's on the edge, he's grabbing it.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

He's so relaxed. I know. He's really, really feeling good now. I know. Sweet baby, look at him. He's a big polar bear in his dreams. All his German Shepherd dreams.

SPEAKER_07 25:46

He just gave a little teeny toe stretch there. Oh, oh, there it is. There it is. Now we're gonna do that. It's like they're talking about me.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

That's great. That's great. Um, and then, you know, as we talk about the potty training side of things and your training, how do you see Fresh Patch aligning with your style of dog training and what scenarios would you recommend Fresh Patch?

SPEAKER_07 26:10

Yeah, um, I s Fresh Patch solves a potential large problem for people. And it can be I could see it especially in places where people don't have back or don't have yards and can't get outside um with their dog. Um I see it in any place. If it's super cold, if it's a dark night and your animal's sick, or if you're sick, if um you're in an apartment and having something nearby where your dog can go and you can train to the fresh patch. That's I I see that as being very useful. A lot of the people that I work with have space to get their dogs out with relative ease. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So um, yeah, so I that's it I see it as a tool to assist potty training in places where it's not easy to do that.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Yeah, definitely. Apartments, like you said, apartments, um, colder cities. I know we get a lot of feedback too. Um women don't feel comfortable going out at night in big cities and stuff, so that's where they use it too. Um living in California, for all you listeners, I'm sure you know, we have coyotes. That's another reason uh piece of feedback we get. That's why people get the fresh patch. Even like I have a yard, but I don't want to let my dog out in that yard at night because of all the coyotes and and such. But you know, and then focusing on like the puppy side of things, obviously, you know, great tool, even no matter what your living situation is.

SPEAKER_07 27:44

Like, yeah, or if you're bringing a rescue dog home, yes, it'd be very helpful.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Yeah, and that's why we work with a lot of rescues and you know offer the fresh patch for the dogs that are you know up for adoption, and then we always encourage it's like hey, they've been on this on the fresh patch as long as they've been here. Like easy transition to just you know take that home with you, start ordering a fresh patch on your own because they're familiar with it and it's just gonna help you out, you know, as being a rescue.

SPEAKER_07 28:10

Do you have shelters who are providing these for their dogs in kennels? Yeah, currently.

Fresh Patch As A Training Tool

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Yeah, mainly on the rescue side, not like uh more on the rescue than the shelters. Yeah, than the shelter side, like the county shelters and stuff. Yeah, because they have a lot of kennels and stuff versus like you know the more private ones and stuff that are a little more, yeah. Like uh you've probably heard of Paw Works and Thousand Oaks, um, mainly in LA. We work with Pup Culture Rescue, uh Vanderpump Dogs, and yeah, they all they're either in the kennels or they're in the dog run area, or they're strictly for the puppies. Like I know Eastwood Ranch Foundation, they just have them in like a rock garden and like they let the puppies that aren't fully vaccinated go on that as well. That is another thing too.

SPEAKER_07 28:54

Yeah, this could be great for that. And so that's really interesting because um there we look at dogs through different lenses, right? The veterinarian is looking at the dog through the medical lens, the trainer or the behavioral consultant is looking at the dog through a different lens. And what we know about puppies is that uh and dogs through puppyhood that the the window of socialization is between eight to twelve weeks. And that is a critical period for animals um to uh experience the world feeling safe.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Okay, right?

SPEAKER_07 29:29

They to see things, to experience different surfaces, to be in different environments, to see, you know, uh novel items, uh any kind of like you know, wheelchairs and crutches and umbrellas and motor b bicycles, vacuums, all these things, different people slow guys, vacuum, mailmen, yeah, costumes, you know, other animals. And and what's interesting about the recommendations is that you not take your anal your puppies out until they're fully vaccinated, which often doesn't happen until 16 months.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_07 30:02

So what's really important is to figure out how to balance those things is like how do you take your puppy out safely, create exposures to all of the things that they need to see with them emotionally comfortable and uh so they they don't have to have big experiences with people, they don't have to go out and greet people, they don't have to meet all the dogs, but they do need some exposure. So that's in a really important uh developmental phase for animals.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 30:29

Yeah, and you can overdo socialization as well as underdoing it. Gotcha. Again, that's where you go at the dog's pace. Yeah, for sure. And if the dog's backing away, the puppy backing away, then you want to kind of move out of that situation.

Socialization Windows And Safety

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah, I love how detailed your insights are with you know, like eight to twelve weeks. Like I don't think I've ever heard that. Like there's that there's certain time periods where you need to do certain things in the training phase for them to really take on to it and stuff. And that that's very interesting.

SPEAKER_07 30:57

It can also be a little bit longer than twelve weeks, give or take, you know. But basically that's the in all the literature that's that's really cool.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

I mean, like just a lot of these kinds of insights that you're providing seem very like scientific slash like animal psychology based, which is a really cool kind of take. You don't really hear much of that.

SPEAKER_07 31:16

Well, yeah, so that's what um reward-based force-free training is um based in evidence, and it's there's animal learning learning science. And then we also have something called you know ethology, which is you know about adaptation and natural behaviors. But um is that related to like ethos of like ethology is is it's really like um what is adaptive for animals, why do animals do certain things based on what is um effective for them, what works for them out in the environment to survive. Gotcha. Right. Um and then behavioral st a behavioral science is really about like operant and classical condition and conditioning and desensitization and how those things work and and positive reinforcement is a quadrant of operant conditioning, which has positive and negative reinforcement and positive and negative punishment. So yeah, so like I land predominantly in positive reinforcement. Every once in a while I may walk away from a dog whose puppy was jumping on me, a dog was jumping on me. That's not positive reinforcement, right? But it's removing my attention, attention from something. So yeah, and and the cu the science of like also training and knowing when to ask for a behavior and when to mark, use acoustic marker to mark a behavior to tell a dog that the thing that they're doing at that particular moment is earning them the reward. Because then dogs will begin to work for that marker signal, which is what a click is.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

Gotcha. Right? Which you've probably heard of a click.

SPEAKER_07 32:53

Yeah, so like a click, click, it means a treat is coming. So it's a Pavlovian conditioning, right? Classical conditioning, click means treat, click, treat. So you click treat, you click treat, you click treat, and then there's a moment where you see the dog go, where's the click? Where's more treat? Yep, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:08

And I feel like that goes back to what you're saying, that that that half second that you were mentioning before where you know you need to reward them.

Operant Conditioning In Practice

SPEAKER_07 33:15

Exactly. Yeah, so that and so that clicker becomes a bridging stimulus. Gotcha. So it bridges the moment the dog the dog does the thing and you click it, and then you get the treat. Sorry, it bridges the moment you click to the time you can get the treat to them.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_07 33:29

Which is right, if the dog is over there, I can't get the treat to them. Yep. But if I say click, or if if I click or say yes, they're like, Cool, where's my treat? I got it.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

It's uh it's ready for me. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

So it like experiences window a little bit. Yes. Yeah. Interesting. That's okay.

SPEAKER_07 33:44

Wow. Right? And they literally will begin to like, what do I need to do to get her to click? Yeah. Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_02 33:51

And they haven't heard that click in a while. What am I doing wrong?

SPEAKER_07 33:55

And then what's also super cool about that is that dogs have agency. So now the dog gets to make the choices. So the dog is like, what do I need to do to get my human pez dispenser to distribute food? And so this is the way also like I see is that, you know, I dogs wouldn't have created this kind of living situation, I don't think. And and the world's gotten much busier. I mean, I remember when I was a kid, the dogs would roam the neighborhood and dogs would come over to the house, and my dad had biscuits and would give them to the other gamer dogs. That doesn't, at least, you know, where we live, that doesn't happen. And um so dogs have to kind of conform to our life, and it's not really, you know, always the greatest thing for them to conform to, right? Yeah. I mean, it's I mean, we're humans and we're a little crazy, I think, sometimes. And uh they've but but we're in charge, so they have to kind of figure out we have to figure out how to live together. So if we have ways to teach them to do the stuff that we need them to do that benefits them, that's fun, then they're like cool. You know, and then they're like, Oh, you know, I there's this point with in training where you can just see the dogs like, Oh, I got I got this human wrapped around my little big ball. You know, because I'm just doing I'm lying down, I'm going to my mat and she's giving me a treat. And so there's they're having fun, there's no stress in the training, they're not afraid of something that's going to happen to them. So we you know, if they don't they don't know why this thing is happening, you know, there's some kind of internal, external stimuli coming at them this way, they're like, oh, I do this and I get that, and it works for them. Wow.

Multi-Dog Homes And Jumping

SPEAKER_02 35:36

Beautiful. Yeah, that's that's that's amazing. That is I love that so much. And um, I wanted to go off script for a second. Yeah, because I actually got this question from um our one of our reps for uh Meta. I had a call with her this morning and told her that you know we're doing a podcast and stuff. And so Alexa, if you're listening, this one's for you. Um she's so she has her dog, two chocolate labs, right? Uh I think they're younger, about two years old and stuff, but so she has hers and then her roommate has one as well. And they she's like, one has a problem, like, right? One was stealing socks, the other one wasn't. Now all of a sudden, that one who wasn't stealing socks is stealing socks, and the one who was originally stealing socks isn't anymore. And then we got she's like, one was a jumper, no longer a jumper. Now the other one's a jumper who never used to be a jumper. So they keep flip-flopping their habits or their you know things. So she was like, I don't know. Yeah, they're mistakes. Yeah, exactly. So she was like, I don't know what how to correct them, and or like, are they just like ganging up on us and figuring out like, oh, you did that, I can do it too. Like, I don't, you know, so wanted to want me to solve this problem. I mean, you don't have to fully solve the problem, but I was like, I bet you she'd have more insight than me on how to deal with this situation. So about the socks. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 36:57

The socks are kind of an easy thing to comment on.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 37:01

Um management. Yeah. Put your socks away. Okay. Fair enough. That's a good point. They're really good point. Alexa, put your socks away. Yeah, so that's management. Like there are th when we when animals come into our household, they're everything's a chew toy. Right? So if we leave remote initially would leave remote controls out and we leave shoes out and glasses and the things that we care about, right? They're gonna put them out in their mouths because that's how they discover the world, that's how they experience the world, it's going in the mouth, and they're gonna, you know, that's a very large possibility. Um so if you if there's something that you care about, uh protect it. I mean, certainly there might be a point two years old, it's not social is is these dogs are probably not fully um mature. Yeah. Social maturity happens between two and three. So anyway, does that the sock thing I think is pretty straightforward. Yeah, right. Regardless of whether who what dog is in your space and what you know, you never know what they're when they're gonna start doing stuff. Because di behavior's dynamic. Um and so then you have jumping was the other issue.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Yeah, and I think her main point too is that they kept they switched now. Like their habits are now the other dog's habits, and like the other one just completely stopped jumping, but now then this one's jumping. And like yeah.

SPEAKER_07 38:24

So did uh just out of curiosity, do you know? Did are these siblings? Are they the same age?

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Are they I think they're the same age, but I don't know if they're siblings like same litter. But I know they're both chocolate labs. And I know the chocolates.

Paying Dogs: Rewards That Last

SPEAKER_07 38:39

It's the chocolates, they're always the wild ones. We need to look at what's happening for each dog individually, and then we need to find out why the dog is jumping. I think if you're wanting to resolve the behavior, the the the questions to ask that are more helpful to answer are like, what's the function of the behavior? What does the dog get for jumping? When does the dog jump? You know, is it when people are coming home? And how what what do we do to um train an alternative behavior to jumping? So, like what would you sh what does she want the dog to do instead of jump? Go to a mat and lie down, let's let's train that.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_07 39:17

And let's set up the environment so we can get that successfully. And if the dogs are super excited and jumping out of excitement, then maybe we do need to do something different at the door so the jumping isn't happening. Because dogs can't learn to go relax on a mat if they're l still practicing jumping.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, makes total sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Alexa, if you're watching, I think a great place to start, maybe putting away the socks.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Yeah, putting away the socks, get a clicker, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Get the clicker, maybe.

SPEAKER_07 39:44

Well, you know, another thing I would just say is that multi dog households, especially with two young dogs, can be really challenging.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_07 39:51

Because you they what often happens is they um they connect with each other and they re ref refer to each other, they orient to each other. So you have To train them both individually and build relationships with each individual dog. So those dogs are, you know, referring to and orienting to you.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_07 40:08

But otherwise they're like, hey, I it's much more fun to play with my other two-year-old buddy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Exactly. Yeah. I think that's the best way to for her scenario. You know, it's like, yeah, they a little more training and then they're they're starting to gang up with each other. It's like, oh, we're creating our own pack two alloy. To go against the, as you said, the human pez dispensers. I love that reference. It's so good. Um, but okay, cool. I appreciate that the help on that.

SPEAKER_07 40:32

You know, can I just add one other thing? Yeah, too, because I know there's some one of the questions that comes up around food, using food and human pez dispensers, is that we don't always use food. We f we use food to establish install behavior and generalize it and go through the phases of learning. And then we can start to um go to a different type of reinforcement schedule where we're not using a food food all the time or we're using life rewards. Right. And I still think you know, we need to pay dogs for doing stuff that we want them to do. I mean, we don't go to work for free.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

No.

SPEAKER_07 41:05

You guys don't come here or won't come here if you didn't like your job and we're getting a paycheck.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_07 41:09

So we're asking you know, so the having rewards consistently through a dog's life is helps maintain and strengthen the the behaviors that you've already taught.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Beautiful. Yeah. No, that's that's our joke too here. It's like gotta give them payment when we need photos of the dogs or we need them to have be in a TikTok or something. They don't work for free. They do not work for free. They do not. Uh uh.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:36

Okay.

Reading Body Language

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Uh this is an interesting one.

SPEAKER_05 41:38

No.

SPEAKER_03 41:38

Um if you were to, you know, like come across a dog on a s on the street, um, are you able to kind of like tell initially like their behavioral patterns, or do you need like more time to kind of like study them and like you know have full access to their life to like fully understand?

SPEAKER_07 41:56

Um so if I see a dog standing on the street, the only thing I know is what I'm looking at. Is uh the data points that I can observe at that moment. And that is the dog's body language. And I don't even if I don't even know the dog, I don't necessarily know the way this dog's body language presents. I mean, body language there's it's kind of universal, but it's different in every dog slightly different. Also, depending upon, you know, do they have what kind of ears? Do they have floppy ears? Do they have hair in front of their face? Like, can I see their eyebrows? Can I see stress in their face? You know, what's their tail position? What's their overall body telling me? Is it stiff or is it relaxed and floppy? Observe your dog and know what their different body language means, what emotions correspond with the signals that you're seeing. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Oliver. What's up, buddy?

unknown 42:55

Who's that me?

SPEAKER_07 42:58

That means that means wrap it up. He's like, I think that's like I'm I'm done here. Tell her to go home. Meanwhile, Oakland over here.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Oakley just gave another stretch and he's like, I'm pretty cozy. Like you guys can take your time, you know. Like Oakley's my spot. Yeah. That's why he's frustrated. He's like, Oakley's in my spot, I'm over the floor.

SPEAKER_07 43:18

But another another thing to add to that, in a consultation, we gather a lot of information. What I missed that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Oh, he just gave Oakley like a look. You're in my spot. Look at there you go.

SPEAKER_07 43:31

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Would you like me to move and you can sit up here and like, hey, yeah. He's like, that'd be really cool.

SPEAKER_04 43:37

Yeah, I know. I'm so sorry. We're all taking your couch. Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_07 43:43

Um, but in a in a behavioral consult, typically um the behavior consultant and trainer will dig into what what's been going on and ask a lot of questions and gather a lot of information.

unknown 43:56

Interesting.

SPEAKER_07 43:57

And then still, when we start training, we see more. We see more. We learn a lot more.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. That's very interesting. The yeah, like you said, the like hair over the eyes or something. Like I can totally see. Like they can't see.

SPEAKER_07 44:11

Like they might be a little more on it, you know, a little anxious because well, also they you can't tell what that dog is looking at. You can't tell if they're looking away, you can't tell if they're hard staring. And then other dogs aren't picking up the emotional signals of that dog either.

SPEAKER_06 44:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 44:31

So the dog with a hair over the eyes is at a little bit of a um um uh the word, the at a disadvantage. Okay. Because other dogs, if that's a totally relaxed dog, the other dogs can't tell. Are not they're not being able to get gather that information.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Yeah, eye contact's a very important thing, you know. Right. Yeah, that's very interesting.

SPEAKER_07 44:50

And the dogs, of course, are picking up all of the information typically a lot faster than we are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Thank you so much. That does wraps up all our questions. Um so much information. So much information. Really, so I mean, I learned a lot right now. This is this is fantastic. And this has been fun. Yeah, thank you. Really appreciate you coming on. And yeah, again, for the viewers, listeners, whether you're watching on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify Podcast, please hit that subscribe button, give us a like, comment, um, follow at Fresh Patch on all socials, check out freshpatch.com and if you want to shout out your website one more time.

SPEAKER_07 45:24

Yeah, Sarah Monroe Dog Training, may I spell it? Yes, S-A-R-A.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Oh.

SPEAKER_07 45:30

No H. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Oh boy. Good job, Oliver. Okay, one more time. One more time for the spelling, Oliver.

SPEAKER_07 45:38

Extract my arm. Yeah. Uh S-A-R-A M-U-N-R-O. Dog training.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

Also, if you guys have any general questions for us, for Sarah, leave them in the comments and um, yeah, we'll make sure that uh we pass those along and get those answered for you. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 45:57

Great.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

Thank you again. And see you guys on the next episode of the Potty Tog Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Thanks for listening to the Potty Talk Podcast. From TikTok. We hope you enjoyed the show. Give us a like or a follow or follow our real craft at freshcut.com.