Stop Buying ESA Letters From Amazon

A puppy can be the best decision you make or a daily stress machine if you skip the unglamorous planning. We sit down with Prairie Conlon, a mental health clinician who works with animal-assisted therapy, to talk about what new pet owners actually underestimate: your environment, your schedule, and the real cost of “tiny dinosaur” chaos. We get specific about why potty training routines have to start immediately, how inconsistency follows you for years, and what it really takes to set a dog up for success in an apartment or a busy workweek. 

Then we tackle the emotional support animal letter conversation with zero fluff. We break down ESA vs pet ownership, what makes an ESA letter legitimate, and why the only clear legal protection is housing between a landlord and tenant. Prairie explains how the ESA landscape shifted culturally, why “instant letters” and online certificates are major red flags, and what a real clinical evaluation and treatment plan should look like if you’re seeking an emotional support animal. 

We also dig into the mental health benefits of pets, from research on cortisol and blood pressure to the everyday truth that animals create purpose, routine, and mindfulness. We talk trauma and depression, why walks and fresh air matter, and how accessible bathroom solutions like Fresh Patch real grass dog potties can help people with limited mobility or high-rise living make pet care workable. If you’ve ever wondered whether a rabbit can be an ESA, we cover that too. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s about to get a puppy, and leave a review with your biggest pet routine win.

Use code FRESH15 for 15% off your ESA evaluation at certapet.com (valid until 6/8)

Thanks for listening to the Fresh Patch podcast brought to you by Fresh Patch. We hope you enjoyed the show. Give us a like or a follow, or shop all of our real grass supplies at freshpatch.com. Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, Youtube, Reddit

Transcript

Welcome And Quick Housekeeping

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You may know Fresh Patch from Shark Tank, Oprah, or the Today Show. This is the Fresh Patch Podcast where good pets get it. Sit back, put your paws up, and enjoy the show. Welcome everybody to the Fresh Patch Podcast. I am your host, Drew, with my co-host, Mr. Gabe, over to my right for all the viewers. And we have an amazing guest on today, Prairie Conlin. So all the viewers, listeners, welcome, Prairie. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Yeah, I'm excited to be here and uh and talk about dogs.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, as as we are too, you know. We love talking about the dogs. So before we get started, just want to let everyone know hit that subscribe button if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, Spotify Podcast, if you're watching on YouTube, like, comment, follow at Fresh Patch on all social media. Check out freshpatch.com for all your real grass potty needs. And prayer, if you wouldn't mind shouting out some of your socials or website and everything, we'll give you that that chance right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

For sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um, emotional support animals, service dog experts. You're looking for those, go to certipet.com. Um, you can find me on journeys with prairie.com. Um, yeah, that's where you can see us.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

There you go. So for everyone listening, check it out if you have any interest in that. And you're gonna learn a lot today. So uh let's just dive right into these questions and and get started. Gabe, you wanna you wanna start us off?

What New Puppy Owners Underestimate

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I want to talk a little bit about um things that maybe first time pet owners like overlook right from day one. So, first question here. Um, what are the top three things that new pet owners underestimate when bringing home a puppy?

SPEAKER_03 1:53

So kind of a little background on how I assess that as a mental health clinician when I'm looking at an emotional support animal or a service dog as part of somebody's treatment plan. I'm gonna go through and assess those exact things. Like, are you prepared for this? Because puppies are a lot of work. I call them tiny dinosaurs. They are just they're a lot. They're, I mean, just little raptors running around. You've got to watch all of your stuff. You have to puppy proof. Um, it's a it's a it's a little dinosaur toddler running around. So um I'm always assessing with clients, all right, where are we at, you know, as far as space goes? What is your environment? Do you have a yard? Because if you don't have a yard, that's going to quadruple your work for you. You're gonna have to be taking, you know, scheduling how am I gonna be able to take this puppy out? Um, if you're working, how am I gonna get home to let the puppy out? So accommodating that puppy because we don't want to stick him in a crate for eight hours. If I have a client that's like, that's what I'm planning on, like, you know what, this isn't a good fit right now. It might be something that would help you, but we also want to think about the animal, also. And so there's a lot of different things, the environment, um, you know, talking to them about um finances. Puppies cost a lot. Oh, yeah, you know, um that's they right, and and and always not just putting out, oh, here's like a budget for food and the basic vet and this and that. You need to have a contingency. I always tell everybody double what you thought because they're puppies, they're gonna eat things that they shouldn't eat, they're gonna, you know, I mean, they're they're they're gonna be all over the place. So um we talk about finances, um, and then we talk about um just general time and understanding do you have like the additional time, the money, the attention to give to an animal? And is that gonna cause additional stressors? So, do you have that available? And on top of that, will that cause you additional stressors? If so, let's look at something different. So, those are kind of the things as a clinician when I'm working with people that I like people to think about.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yeah, no, absolutely. And and it's really cool that you kind of compare owning a puppy to like owning a toddler because it kind of is like that. Like it can like take over your whole life, and you know, a lot of people aren't expecting it. And I know it's kind of you know a thing that people like impulse by dogs and and pets in general, and yeah, so it's like definitely really cool that you're like shining a light on these sort of things that people like often don't really think about um when

Potty Routines And Consistency

SPEAKER_00 4:38

they're getting a dog. Uh, to follow up on that a little bit, um, I want to ask a little bit about potty training and like bathroom routines. How important is establishing a bathroom routine early and what happens when that foundation is shaky, like when say get out of puppy hood.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

Yeah, yeah. So um, you know, disclaimer, again, I'm a mental health therapist that I use animal assisted therapy. So I'm not the animal expert, but I work with it enough that, you know, when I'm working with people and they're planning on getting a new puppy versus adopting um an older dog, um that's again, it just really is do you have the right place? Do you have the amount of time to do it? Because if you don't get started right away, in my experience, my personal experience, my professional experience, you're gonna have a handful for for the rest of your life. I mean, in these dogs, you know, we're planning hopefully on having our animals 10 plus years. And so, do you want to deal with that? No, it's one of them things it's like, you know, I say to my clients, buckle up for three months solid, just like this is what we're gonna do. You have to be consistent. Um, otherwise, you know, for 10 years, that's what it's gonna look like. You know, you're you're gonna have pee in places, you're gonna, yeah, I mean you're gonna be cleaning up. So um, as much as that, and that's again another piece of that assessment. Do you have time to really buckle up with this puppy? They're gonna chew on everything, they're gonna pee on everything, they are going to need you to basically follow them around, but it's necessary, otherwise, then this is what you're dealing with for 10 years. So, so buckle up, get ready, please plan to have a puppy.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, it's beyond potty training, just training in general is like a huge undertaking, and it, you know, is it it is really important part of the process. So, um, yeah, definitely I agree. Something something to consider there.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yeah, and I feel like a lot of people just overlook, they just look at the fun side of having the dog, you know, and they totally overlook everything else, which is you know, just not the traits you want to have. And yeah, buckle up, like you said, because those, I mean, we've met our fair share of puppies, you know, working here at Fresh Patch and hearing the customer feedback and stuff, and it's like, hey, and we I get come almost complaints like, Hey, your your product doesn't work, and it's like, How much did you try? And they're like, Oh, just like once or twice, and it's like, hey, you know, we need we need a lot more commitment from you because it's even with our product that that's not gonna work, you know what I mean? So totally um 100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Consistency is key.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Yep, totally, and not to discourage anybody from getting a puppy, like puppies are amazing, and if you have the time and you know, capacity to like train one and handle one, like it's it's a great, it's a great process, yeah, at the end of the day, yeah. Um, but yeah, just definitely understand there are you know things to prepare for.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Yeah, exactly. Cool. So moving on from the you know the top three things and everything.

ESA Versus Pet And The Law

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Wanted to kind of dive into the the ESA side of things and and pet ownership. So um ESA versus pet ownership, you know, um what clinically distinguishes an emotional support animal from a regular pet, and who is a good candidate for an ESA letter?

SPEAKER_03 7:55

For sure, for sure. Well, um, you know, again, I'm gonna just throw it out there before I get into it that I think all animals um, you know, play some part in emotional support.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

Um, so whether or not you need that clinical letter. Um, because an emotional support animal, um the the legal aspect is that they are prescribed for um somebody that is in a hoa situation or a rental situation. The only place an emotional support animal is legal is between a landlord and a tenant. Um, so that helps with um, you know, like pet rent, pet fees, um, stuff like that. So if you own your own home, you're not gonna need an emotional support animal letter. Does that mean your animal doesn't provide emotional support? Absolutely not. So there's that aspect of it. But as far as legally having an emotional support animal, you need to talk to your doctor or your therapist that you're working with about getting an emotional support animal, adding it to your treatment plan because an emotional support animal should be part of a treatment plan. Um, a lot of doctors and therapists won't write the letters. Um, a lot of people that come to CERTAPET font are generally people that have a treatment plan in place, um, but they're finding that their doctors and therapists can't write the letters just because there is specific training that does need to go in behind behind that. There's not only understanding how to do a clinical evaluation because it's different than evaluating for you know medications or different types of therapies. Um, so there's that aspect of training, but there's also the legal side. You want your doctors and therapists, if they're writing a letter that invokes federal law, you want them to know what that federal law is.

SPEAKER_04 9:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:38

So making sure you're working with a doctor or therapist that knows that. Um, and if that's not available, certipet, we I personally have worked with all the therapists and doctors there. They are fully trained on the legal and the clinical piece of that. So um, you know, we can absolutely get you taken care of there.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Amazing. Yeah, that's definitely good to. I mean, that's very good points because I wouldn't even think of that too, you know, when it comes to the legalities and stuff like that, making sure everyone knows what they're doing. That's obviously very important. So um, yeah, that's that's great information. And I feel like you touched on this maybe a little bit, but the next question was how was how has uh the ESA conversation shifted culturally and what misconceptions do you still hear most

ESA Scams And Proper Evaluations

SPEAKER_01 10:24

often?

SPEAKER_03 10:26

Yeah, I mean, it's 10 years ago um from today, uh it's still a little bit of the wild west, but 10 years ago it was just the wild west. It was like, you know, your ophthalmologist could write you an ESA letter and it's like, huh?

SPEAKER_04 10:41

Okay. That doesn't add up.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

They even have that written in the federal law that your ophthalmologist can write you an ESA letter and you can have a kangaroo. The word kangaroo was literally in there. Wow. Yeah, I no, no, I don't want none of that. I don't want any of that, but um, yeah, so uh it's changed a lot. Um, people are starting to see that um emotional sport animals and service animals are are very valid. Uh they're they are a huge piece of people's mental health. Um, I've seen animals save lives. We've seen it just, you know, I mean, they're they they create a reason, they create purpose. And so um, yeah, so I think there it's it's recognized more, but unfortunately, there's still problems with regulation. So we have a lot of um companies uh that either have been bad actors in this um uh in in the ESA world, um, that you can go and you could probably find somebody that costs less than Certipet, um, or some of the places that cost more. But if you are going and you are putting information into a website and they are giving you a letter and that's it, you don't have a valid letter. You're in a situation where you could get in trouble with your landlord. And that's where, as certipet, you know, we're really trying to advocate for vetting of companies because who's gonna actually get punished when they use a bad company? The client. That's not how are they supposed to know? That's not fair, yeah. And so I think there should be a vetting of companies that says this is what a clinical evaluation for an emotional support animal looks like. This is what an evaluation for a service animal looks like. There should be clinical standards. Um, we're very heavy in pushing that, very heavy into training. Um, and hopefully that will be something that changes in the future. But right now there's a lot of what we call pop-up companies where we'll hear clients go, oh, I got an ESA letter from this place and now they don't exist anymore. Yep, they took your money and ran.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

You know, that's and and uh they're like, oh, you can go on to Amazon. Um, I I'm one of those that I submit complaints to Amazon and they're like, for $39.99, you can get an ESA certificate.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Wow, what's that? Yeah, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

It's like it's not a certificate, it is a legal prescription clinical recommendation from your therapist. It looks like a letter. It's saying this is what they need. So yeah, be very careful in looking for ESA letters. Again, I always tell people first try your doctor, your own doctor or therapist. If that doesn't work, go to Certipet. Certipet, we can work, we work with your current doctors and therapists. And then if you've never you don't have insurance or you've never worked with the doctor or therapist before, we can get you started on a treatment plan. You know, it's all it's a comprehensive mental health um evaluation. And so we're looking at, you know, overall mental health.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah, and what does that process look like?

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Of like, yeah, so um, you know, you can go to Certipet, there's a pre-screening there. Um, the pre-screening is you know, it it's what it is. There's that, you know, business piece of of um getting people in, and it kind of talks a little, it shows, you know, this is what it is. Um it does a pretty good job though of vetting people out by you know, when people are like, oh, they're serious, versus um, I'll never forget, like it was like five or six years ago, I had a client come through and say, How much of this is wink wink nudge nudge? And I'm like, All right, that's not good. You know, definitely not a candidate.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

So yeah, so that's something through.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm sure that person got an Amazon certificate, you know.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Oh, 100% after Amazon ESA, good three for Timu ESA. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Oh gosh, yeah, that's the one. Yeah, the Timu.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Yeah, yeah. So um, you know, the pre-screening generally people kind of go, okay, I think these people are serious. Um when you actually then go, okay, you know, you might be a good candidate, it will explain that is determined by your therapist. So then um you go, you go in and you purchase an assessment. You're not purchasing a we're purchasing assessments, and so they go in, they fill out the clinical assessment, intake paperwork. You've been to a doctor's office, the intake paperwork is a lot, and honestly, that's what it looks like. If it's legal, that's what it looks like. So there's about 80 some questions, they're not yes-no questions, they are, you know, fill it out. We have the PHQ 9, the GAD set, we have all the clinical measures in there. So they fill that out, they click submit, and then it goes into a queue where we have doctors and therapists in all 50 states. And when we have um when they see, oh, there's somebody available, the therapist will click them in their queue. So then an email is triggered to the client, you've been assigned. Generally within, I mean, even less than 12 hours, the therapist is already saying, Here's my scheduling link. Let's schedule our appointment. So by the time that appointment's scheduled, uh, you know, we've read through their assessment, we're ready to have a discussion about um additionally what else we need to know, setting up treatment plan or coming alongside an existing treatment plan, which it's really about half and half. I, you know, we're really excited about people that start their mental health journey with us. And then there's also, you know, um people that are like my doctor or therapist couldn't write the letter. So could you help me? And and we come alongside that. Um, so gotcha, yeah. Um, and and we we do a pretty good job, I think, getting sorting people out because if people are really that kind of, you know, the like the wink wink nudge nudge guy, yeah, they're not gonna fill out the 80-sum questions. And I was already kind of going, hmm, with this person because it was like in a in a non-applicable, not applicable. I'm like, that's interesting. Pretty sure. Yeah, yeah. So um but yeah, that's what the process looks like. Uh, if you are approved, um you're not only getting your ESA letter, you're getting your treatment plan, you know, to come alongside or a brand new treatment plan, you're getting recommendations, you have access to your therapist all year long. There was a company that we were just vetting to see how they did things, and they literally uh sent um you know, sent something that said, Do you do you want to talk? And we wanted to see what they would say. No, okay. Well, I've diagnosed you with anxiety. What? And they also said we're protecting the therapist's privacy, so you can't have their email address or their phone number.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Huge red flags. Yeah. My clients, I'm gonna send my my um make sure you're saving my phone number. Here's my email address. I'm gonna email you throughout the year, I'm gonna check in throughout the year, but you can always reach out. That's you know, big red flag is there if people are looking for any services like that.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Yeah, totally, especially as like a mental or like a uh mental health, you know, clinic clinical kind of you know, professional, you want to be there for your clients. That's kind of a big part of it.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

Yeah, yeah. And again, that calls into question, you know, what who's working for these companies and is okay with that? Which is scary. You know, I mean, there's bad actors everywhere in every profession. Um, it's just unfortunate that this is in one too where people don't know better and they're getting in trouble with their landlord. There, you you can get evicted because of your animal, and that's and that's awful. And you know, I mean, I just the moral compass of these companies too, like, are you okay with that? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Apparently, but yeah, apparently so. Yeah, um

How Pets Change The Brain

SPEAKER_00 18:50

cool. I want to dive a little bit deeper into like some of the maybe the emotional benefits of pet ownership. Um, so from more of like a clinical standpoint, what does the research say about how pets reduce stress, anxiety, loneliness, things like that?

SPEAKER_03 19:06

For sure, yeah. The the research um, you know, gets can even get really scientific with the you know, the oxytocin, which is that feel-good cuddhorm, the dopamine, the all those neurotransmitters that um, you know, if it if you looked at how much medication, how much Xanax it would take you to get your um brainwaves to settle the way they do from petting your animal for 15 minutes, trying to replicate that with medication, you would kill somebody because it's so heavy and impactful, and trying to replicate that feel-good, um, like it's it's um like medically not possible. Um, so some really cool um statistics over that stuff. Um, I mean, it helps with sleep. It, you know, there's a lot of people that are like, I've taken everything under the sun, but then my cat purring next to me, my dog, you know, just the warmth of them um just makes a huge difference, you know. Um, so there's there's a lot of really cool stuff about uh lowering of blood pressure and cortisol levels, um, which is amazing. And so yeah, there's there are a lot of benefits, and then the ones that are more anecdotal where I can't just lock down a number for you, yeah. Um, but is just huge, is you know, depressive symptoms. That's a reason. That's a reason to get up. You have to get up. You have, I mean, there's no better alarm clock than a dog. Oh, yeah, except a dog about to throw up. That one's a better alarm clock. Okay, I'll be there before quick. Yeah, when you hear that that yakking sound, it's like, oh, I'm really gonna there's no snooze button on that one.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yeah, seriously. Oh, that's funny.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

That's good, yeah, yeah. But no, it it it it gets people up that might struggle with getting up. Um I've again I've seen it just change lives, so yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Um, and I do appreciate like the anecdotal kind of um evidence as well. Like, I think that's really important. Obviously, like you've been doing this for a long time, so you've personally seen how how this can help someone. So that's that's really cool to hear. Um kind of going off the last question. I wanted to ask, like, if there are in your experience, if you've seen like specific populations, as in like people who struggle with depression or PTSD, um, who maybe would benefit like m the most.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Yeah, so it's hard to say like who would benefit the most. Um I would say trauma and animals. That is it just regulates people. They're animal like. I mean, they can have a wonderful human in their life and a great support system, but animals provide a different type of support. Um, you know, we don't have to put a mask on. And no matter what, we just do that with you. Generally are gonna kind of monitor what you're saying, you're gonna monitor what you're doing. Um, people aren't masking with their animals, their animals are unconditional. People are not unconditional, they're just not. We can't be, and an animal can, and I think that really appeals to just the humanity in us, is just that that innocence and that unconditionalness that needs us. Um, and so yeah, yeah, they I I would say where I've seen it be the biggest help. I think it helps everywhere, but um trauma.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Totally, yeah. That makes that makes total sense to me. I mean, yeah, I know when I have a bad day, like going home to my dog is like, you know, just makes everything better, like you said.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

So Oh yeah, oh yeah. No, they they I think um, you know, I would I would put depression closely after that just because again, it requires that routine, that accountability to them.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

And when you are taking care of your animal, um, it's really interesting to watch um, you know, how that in turn they start taking care of themselves because in order to take care of your animal, you have to take care of yourself. And so um I see that help a lot, but um, you know, I would I would put trauma right at the top.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Got it, gotcha. Yeah, I feel like that kind of leads us right into the next question and Steph. And you you kind of already touched on this, but pets as a daily anchor, how caring for a pet quietly structures your own life. And um, our first question was how does having a pet create a sense of daily purpose, especially for people who struggle with motivation or depression?

SPEAKER_03 24:02

Yeah, yeah. And I love that you use the word anchor. I mean that that's what it is. I mean, you know, it it's it's again, it's a strange thing how and that's where I think I hear a lot of people say stuff like, Well, you know, I know it's just a dog, um, and I've got a great family and everything, but there again, there is a different aspect to that. It appeals to a different part of our brain, and there's the innocence to an animal. So, first of all, I just want to tell anybody listening to not feel guilty about the crazy good relationship you have with your animal.

Trauma Depression And Daily Purpose

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Again, it probably helps you have better relationships with the other people that you have. Oh, yeah. So so many people talk about that all the time, like, oh, I know this sounds crazy, or I know this sounds stupid. No, it doesn't. If it's making you a better human and it's making you a better person and having better relationships, excellent. That's wonderful, you know, and so um, yeah, I think there's there's just something about the innocence of the animal, uh, the nonverbal piece to it, you know, where you have to actually kind of get out of your own brain and and and they are communicating with you and asking you to, you know, take care of them. Yeah, um, and I think there's just a lot to that as far as motivation goes. And as far as you know, and of course, the especially with the dogs, and man, I am seeing a lot more people that have cats that walk on leashes. Mine would murder me for that. Yeah, I mean, pun intended, he goes completely catalyctic.

SPEAKER_04 25:44

Why is the ones five?

SPEAKER_03 25:46

I I just uh but getting outside for 15 minutes. I don't care. I tell everybody, and that's why I love animals. I love my clients that have animals because I'm like, go outside more. Your dog's never gonna be upset at you about that. Oh, they're never gonna, you're never gonna regret that. There is a lot to be said about fresh air and vitamin D. It is absolutely going to help your the homeostasis of the neurotransmitters you have going up there in your head.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Totally 100%. Yeah, and there's something about that happy happiness that you see on a dog when you're getting ready to take him on a walk, and it just it makes you happy.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

So there's definitely Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's a that's a big thing I use in therapy too, is that mindfulness and being in the moment. When you see your animal doing that, mirror it back to them. That is the biggest gift you can ever give your animal. Yes, you're you know, your dog's like, oh, this is the best day ever. I mean, did you ever see the cat diary versus the dog diary?

SPEAKER_04 26:47

Uh uh. Have you ever seen that?

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Kind of it. The cat was uh the dog's like, oh, we're waking up, it's the best thing ever. And now I'm gonna get my treats, and it's the best thing ever. And and my mom's filling my water bowl, it's the best thing ever. Now we're gonna go on a walk. And that's their daily dog diary. Well, the cat was really funny, it was like the day 316 of my captors, and they're you know, which was perfect.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Oh my god, that's so good.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

So I have both and like I see that that's so good, yeah. But but yeah, is using that attitude that the dogs have for that daily mindfulness, yeah, and meeting them where they're at, you know. And and I get people too, they're like, Oh, well, I'm really worried because my dog's getting older.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

Again, they're not worried about it. No, meet them where they're at. Yeah, meet your dog where they're at. They're not worried about tomorrow, they're not worried about the mistakes they made yesterday. Meet them where they're at, and when they're like, Oh my gosh, there's a squirrel, it's my favorite thing, and I'm gonna sniff on this rock, and it's my favorite thing. Be there with them, be there with them. They are the best teachers of gratitude and being in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Well, but yeah, that's that's amazing. And going back to like the motivation side of it too, that you're kind of oh, there goes Oakley.

SPEAKER_04 28:03

He's done.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Um, but um, it's just you know what Gabe said, like seeing the joy on them of before the walk, but for me, it's seeing the joy on them after the walk, too. You know, and it's like, and just that motivation, like, yeah, you might struggle, and I I have this trait too, where it's just like, oh, I don't really want to go out right now. But then I always tell myself, I'm like, what's 15 minutes? 15 minutes for me is the whole world to them, you know, at least just that time frame. And then once you do it and you see the joy or the relaxation they get afterwards, it's like, all right, that was rewarding. I'm glad I did that. Look how happy they are now, just for 15 minutes, and like that's nothing to us, you know what I mean? But everything to them. So oh, he's back. You don't see him on the camera. You can't take my clipboard, sir. He's trying to take my clipboard. I don't know if, Corey, you want to turn the laptop, but so she can see. He's trying to Mr.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Oakley's uh I thought Oakley was the boss, so can he have it?

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yeah, he can. He can. Let me just read my um we'll just ask the next question, then you can have it. Uh can you talk about the idea that taking care of your pet is also a form of taking care of yourself? I feel like we might have touched on it a little bit more. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

But I mean, yeah, just to reiterate, um, you know, it's one of those things we always hear that cliche expression, you have to put your um your mask on in an airplane that's crashing before you put your other before you put it on somebody else. You cannot take care of somebody else if you're not okay. And you know, that I think it's amazing to me how an animal um can encourage us and motivate us to take care of ourselves better. I hear all the time, you know, and of course, as a therapist, there's pieces to that. And I'm like, well, we need to build the support system a little bit more, but like that self-care piece of um I I work hard so that my animal can have a better life. And I like that, and that's something to build on, though. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Yeah, no, definitely. And I I it's funny, you've brought it up a couple times, but that dog the dog needing to feed the dog, him asking to be feed, like getting you out of bed. That really like that's something that I have 100% experienced. Um, and I never had thought of it that way, but that's that's really, really cool. And yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Well, and it's not just people with depression that have experienced that, you know, those days where you just want a bed rot, right? I mean, everybody's experienced that. I don't care if you've got clinically diagnosed depression or not, there's days like, hmm, I don't have to do anything, why would I get up? And you know, that the it's scary how that can turn into, and next thing you know, it's like, oh my gosh, it's one o'clock. So having the animals, it's just an excellent way to motivate yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

For sure. Yeah, no, definitely. Um, it's almost like they're hurting you a little bit, you know, and you're they're like it's goes back into their taking care of you in a sense. Like, yeah, it's really, really interesting and like kind of a cool way to you know change the way that you you you think about those sort of things. Um I'm getting herded over here right now. Yeah, I'm getting I'm just getting barred.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

I've noticed, I've noticed just give him the clipboard.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

I know he started chewing on the metal though, so I didn't want him to get up because he'll rip it right off, you know.

SPEAKER_03 31:27

So yeah, I petition that Oakley gets his own doggy clipboard.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

I know we need to we need to invest in that.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

What I will tell you is we just got some new little nightstands here for our little podcast studio, and while I was putting them together, I left the room for a second and I came back, and like one of these like wooden boards was absolutely chewed to shreds. And I was like, like, such a funny thing for like you know, a dog to quit.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

The toddler, it's like, yeah, hey, it got quiet in the other room. Why is it quiet in there? That's bad.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Oh, that's funny. So I want to I want to go back to you, you were talking about going outside with your dog and how beneficial and important that is.

Outdoor Time When It Is Hard

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Um, so you you kind of already talked about this, but just to like retouch on it again, um, what does going outside with your pet do for your mental health? Um, that indoor time just can't simply simply can't replic replicate.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

And could you repeat the last part of that?

SPEAKER_00 32:35

You said Yeah, yeah, sorry. Um what does going outside uh with your pet do for your mental health that being inside with them can't replicate?

SPEAKER_03 32:45

Yeah, again, that that's fresh air. I mean, that's as simple as fresh air. You're getting your blood pumping.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

Um, you know, a lot of times there's sure you could make the argument that maybe there's you're getting a little movement inside, but but walking, um, that aerobic, um, you know, walking, getting the blood pumping, all of those things, they increase those natural neurotransmitters that we need that help us feel good. That, you know, your your antidepressants or anti-anxiety medications are trying to supplement, those are being reproduced naturally, naturally when you are walking, when you're getting vitamin D, when you are pumping good oxygen in your body. So yeah, absolutely that.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Yeah, that makes that makes tons of sense. Um, and it's great to have that little inspiration to you know, force yourself to get outside, you know, have a reason to to kind of get out on days where you normally wouldn't. Um so that's really cool. Um, now I not everyone can it's it's not as easy to get outside for everyone as it is for others. Um so and I'm sure like in your experience you've had um you've worked with people who are maybe maybe have limited mobility or live in an apartment where they have to go down a bunch of stairs and and that sort of stuff. So what advice would you give to people in that situation to um help them like maximize that outdoor time, even if it's like in smaller doses?

SPEAKER_03 34:17

Yeah, I mean again do as much as you can, but obviously there are you know situations that you know there's limited mobility on the pets part, there's limited mobility on the people's part, you know, that exactly. Um, and I think you know, that's again as a clinician when I'm assessing doesn't an animal play a part in your life to where you could do well with it. Um there I have uh several clients that have you know three-legged dog that they use potty pads. Um, so that was when your product came in. I was like, oh wow, that is pretty great. Like that would be great because the three-legged dog is like good for five minutes and then like I'm good to go back in. I'm pretty good. Like I would like to go back in, and if I don't have to, you know, be drugged downstairs or through an elevator, you know, it's great to have a product like like you have past the potty pads because I've used those before. And um, I don't know what it is about like why they shred them. Why do they shred those things?

SPEAKER_00 35:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

I know it's so gross, yeah. Especially when they've been used already and they start shredding them. Yeah. What are we doing?

SPEAKER_03 35:27

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So um, you know, I again I think it's always assessing, you know, the environment, what you know you have available. Um, you know, uh there's a lot of people that like to adopt the senior dogs, and again, doesn't make that doesn't make sense to just be like, let's drag them all over. They have arthritis, they have this or that. You know, going outside twice a day, you know, like a little in the morning, a little in the evening, but then other times, you know, using a product like yours, I think it makes a ton of sense. It's gonna give access to more people, and on top of that, it's still it's really still providing that same benefit because you know, you're you're gonna have to clean that still and and um you know replenish that for them. You're gonna still, you know, give them their food and water and they're still gonna have their routines. So is it still providing the same benefit? Yeah, when it comes down to it, yes. Fresh air is always good. Fresh air is always good, but it's not always reasonable for everybody. So I think you know, that's you know, when they approached me and they were telling me about your product, I was like, that is fabulous, just because it it opens the door for more people to have things. And it honestly, I've I've talked about it to clients too, where it's like, well, it's an older dog, and um, and I'd been looking at this and that, and I was like, oh, you should you should check that out because it does make it easier, and that is kind of what we're looking for, that balance, like pros and cons. Should you get an animal, what is this gonna look like? So I think you know, weighing all those things, but yeah, fresh air is always great, not always reasonable.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Definitely. Um, just to kind of build on your your fresh patch point a little bit. Um, I always like to think, I'm obviously like have no scientific or clinical background at all, but um I like to think that having real like the natural grass for them to go and maybe like they can't have that all the time, it's not super easily accessible for them. I like to think that that can help like the dog's mental health and like kind of like bring you know on the on the dog side.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

So yeah, yeah. Well, and again, then that helps you. We see them happy, it makes us feel good, and dogs love smells. Like, oh my gosh, my one dog. I'm like, if I go on a walk outside of our yard, I'm gonna stop every five feet because we're gonna smell things. Yep, it's fun to smell things, and like they love grass, they love the fresh, you know, so yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Awesome. Yeah, no, that's that's my dog. It's we're stopping every two feet to smell everything, but most of the time that's what I tell on walks. I'm just like, hey, you you obviously I have the leash, but like you you take me where you want to take me. We have our route, you know what I mean? But oh yeah, if you want to if you want to stop and smell this tree for a little longer than you did yesterday, by all means, sir. We're gonna smell this tree a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

I'm always impressed. Like, how do you have anything left? Like, how do you have anything left?

SPEAKER_01 38:32

No, that's so funny you say that because Gabe, you know this too with Oakley. It's like, we'll walk to Starbucks, it's just like half a mile down from our office, so we'll take Oakley on the walk with us and everything. And by the time we're on our way back, like he's lifting his leg and there's nothing coming out. Like, just lifting his leg. And I'm like, bro, you got nothing left in the tank. Like, but then he'll do the the scoots, you know. Like he makes up for it for the scoots, you know. But I'm like, dude, like, yeah, so that's so funny you bring that up because I experienced the same thing. I'm like, oh why are you even trying? But it makes sense. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Do what you love. Hey, there's another motto from a dog, do what you love. Lift your leg, even if you got nothing left.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Yeah, like yeah, lift gotta live by that quote right there. That's a t-shirt. Yeah, that's great. Cool. So moving

Puppies As Anxiety Interruptors

SPEAKER_01 39:20

on to our next topic: puppies and anxiety. Uh, the unexpected therapeutic value of the training process itself. So puppy training can be incredibly frustrating, we all know. Um, how do you reframe that process for owners who are feeling a little overwhelmed?

SPEAKER_03 39:36

I love puppies for people with anxiety because it anxiety is rumination, right? We're just ruminating. We're taking something that um maybe there's some validity to it being a concern. Um, but true anxiety comes from when we take concerns and then they are just blown out of proportion, they are catastrophic in our head, and we've thought about it a hundred times. That's when a normal concern becomes actual anxiety. Um, so puppies, um, you know, from the outside, you would think, well, that's gonna cause more anxiety, right? I have found it does the opposite 95% of the time. Um, are there times where it's like, okay, this is too much and somebody's got too much going on? Sure. So I don't want to hear about all the variables I'm sure people might say. But 95% of the time, anxiety is going to be interrupted. That rumination that I'm worried about this or this or that is gonna be interrupted by the tiny little monster dinosaur you have running around and you're nipping at you, trying to bite the electrical cord, trying, you know, dragging the couch cushion off the couch, and it's so interrupted that and they don't and and they don't realize it. It's funny, it'll be like somebody that you know, I haven't seen them in two weeks, they just got the puppy, they come back. How's your anxiety? Well, I well, I'm like, well, what are you been thinking about? Well, my puppy did this and blah blah blah. And although it might seem like it's an anxiety-based thing, well, I'm afraid they're gonna electrocute themselves. So we did this and this and this, and they had to focus on, you know, and then we went to Lowe's and we got these kinds of extension cords and blah blah blah. They're pulling their focus away from things that normally cause, you know, those normal habits of the brain where it's like we're going to cycle that and cycle it, cycle it, cycle it till you're just driven crazy by it, versus I have just focused all of my energy on this puppy, and I didn't even realize that I did it. Like, this is this is uh like a cognitive behavioral therapy technique we call thought stopping. And you could spend you know 12, 15 sessions in here with me, and we could try it. Uh, and that's basically trying to interrupt those anxiety thoughts versus if you have a puppy, the puppy's very much going to interrupt those anxiety thoughts. Oh, yeah, and so it's one of them things like I don't need to use cognitive behavior therapy on you to reframe that because you're gonna be focused on that little thing right there running around the house.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Yeah, I love how you reference them as uh Velociraptors, raptors, dinosaurs. That's uh so accurate. Um, I've definitely met my fair share of Velociraptor dogs. The golden retrievers might be the most uh they're the puppy. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Oh, I don't know. One of my friends just got a Viesla puppy.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

Ooh, uh oh.

SPEAKER_03 42:42

That is a tiny dinosaur. And it likes paper for some reason. It took a little bite of toilet paper, somebody left the bathroom door open, and it just goes streaking across the room with it flying behind. I was like, that's like out of a movie. That was so perfect.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

The dog was so proud of itself. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

See, that's that's the tough part sometimes. Yeah, they are so proud of themselves. It's like oh yeah. Oh man, I gotta, I gotta tell you, this is not the thing to do. Yeah, man, you're having fun. I think that's that is awesome. Cool. So next, oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

I was just gonna say that I saw a video today where um the this person's like two dogs were digging holes in their backyard, and it was exactly that. The dogs like were like so excited, like grab their owner and like take him to the hole, and they're like, Look what we did. It's like, how can we how can I be mad at them when they're just showing me their art? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

Yeah, it's a masterpiece.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Yes, exactly. They're all artists in their own way. Great. Um, the second question on the puppies and anxiety topic was uh Is there a therapeutic element uh to the consistency and patience that training demands from the owner?

SPEAKER_03 43:57

Absolutely, you know. Um There's a lot to be said about the patients that you know puppies take. This one is a can be a little controversial, just and this is where I think it's really important with uh you know clinicians that are evaluating people for this. Um, because if we're looking at different elements of anxiety, there's so many, it's so multifauceted anxiety, all the different, you know, pieces to it. And is there an element there that I'm worried about? Well, there might be some anger management stuff, you know, things like that. I'm gonna be really careful about that. I might, you know, completely steer away from it just because you know, there is that fine line between uh, you know, when you're being patient with something of, okay, now I'm calmed down and I'm gonna deal with it versus now I'm gonna escalate. And so um, yeah, and and generally what we do see is you know, people are like, I noticed that I was starting to elevate, and that did help me with my patience, you know, with settling down with going, okay, it's just a puppy, it's not their fault, they're just you know, being a puppy. Um, but you know, that is definitely something that we want to take note of and make sure that we're being careful with um, you know, anxiety and anger management, sometimes those comorbid disorders like that. Um you have to be careful with it. So we're definitely thinking about that, but um, does it definitely help just, I mean, generally learning to be patient with the puppy, learning to yeah, and I think more than anything, I think it's just the routine of the puppy that that helps, you know. Um because that alone, once you kind of have an established routine, and that's again kind of back to that very first conversation we had um about establishing a routine and getting after that potty training right away, you know, because routine does help kind of settle anxiety and help you learn to be okay. Well, you know, I the reason they had an accident, I wasn't on schedule, so therefore it is what it is. Um, yeah, so absolutely again. I think it really just comes down to kind of that routine.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

Yeah, no, that makes total sense. Yeah, I guess you know, when I have routine, I'm not stressed out about you know what's going on or what has to be done and so yeah, that that totally makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Definitely, and I I really like that you mentioned that it can help like teach patience because it really, really does, you know, like outside of like owning a child or like sorry, how owning a child of owning a child, go ahead, yeah. Flip down for bloopers outside of having a child, like there's very few things that like you know, it they do things, and you like you said, you can't really be mad at them because they don't know any better. So yeah, no, I I think that that's a really cool thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Cool. Well continue. You got the next one.

Apartment Dogs And Bathroom Planning

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Cool. So let's talk a little bit about pets and apartments and making it work without a backyard. I'm sure that factors into what you do a little bit. Um, so what what advice would you give to clients who like want a dog? They want an emotion emotional support animal, but they worry because their living situation isn't suitable, you know, whether they live in a high rise, they don't have a backyard, um, things things like that.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

Yeah, well, you know, again, that it really comes down to that first, you know, initial intake talking to them about what does that look like for you? What how would that change your life now? You know, what kind of a routine change would we have if this happened? And to be honest with you, um, you know, I mean, I I have my little checklist of things and like, okay, well, let's talk about it. If you live in a high rise and what might you need? And to be honest with you, I actually put that product when I learned about it just recently as hey, here is also something that you could possibly use. Um, you know, there's of course you've got to, you know, be after it just like you do with body training, like you were saying. So it's it's there's the element of training to it, there's the element of cleaning things up too. Um, but there is, you know, an option. So we really kind of do like the pros and cons and see does this work for you? How could that work? Um, and so I think really it is just individually individualizing what would work for somebody. Um, but yeah, I I threw that in the mix there too, because that is pretty, that's pretty great. I mean, it's always been, you know, tried puppy pads before, and then when I hear them say, well, they've been my other my dog shreds them, and I'm sitting there like, yeah, mine didn't too.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Oh, we hear that all the time too. Yeah, yeah, definitely very common. Yeah. Um, yeah, no, that's that's really cool. Um, so how does maybe like having a little bit getting a little more like fresh patch focused here? Like, how does having like a reliable, accessible bathroom solution kind of change that mental calculus for apartment owners?

SPEAKER_03 49:36

Yeah, I mean, if you already don't have an an if you don't have the animal yet, honestly, I feel like that's like kind of the number one thing you should be thinking about.

SPEAKER_04 49:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:45

Really? I mean, they have to go to the bathroom. And that I I feel like that should be like at the top of the list of do you have a yard? How are you going to take them to the bathroom? Do you have what you know resources do you have available where you're at? I feel like that's top tier. I mean, that's the first place that I go. And if somebody's like, no, I, you know, I'm gonna potty train them, but uh, they're gonna be in the kennel seven, eight hours until I can get home. We're what then we're done having the conversation. Yeah, I'm not even gonna go into the clinical in into the clinical aspect of it because it's not it's not gonna happen. So I would say honestly, that's like top tier. First thing that you need to really talk about is what is the space look like for the animal? Where are they gonna go to the bathroom?

SPEAKER_01 50:33

Yep. You know, I always say to it's like humans, you know, we're just so mentally we have a bathroom, you know what I mean? We can go whenever we please, you know, and you gotta think about that for your pet. And that's where fresh patch does come in as that hey, it's here, it's natural, and you got that spot for yourselves, just like humans have our spots, you know. So um, I think that's a great point. Like that should be top of mind, and like I love that approach.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

Yeah, again, I don't I don't even yeah, I don't even continue with the clinical evaluation for that if there's not the you know, I talk about the animal first and say, is this even plausible? And that right, it's top top tier, so I don't even go into the assessment further. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Why move why move forward with more information when it's not gonna applicable and stuff?

SPEAKER_00 51:21

So definitely cool. Like we actually hear from people sometimes like on social media and things like that. Like, hey, like I didn't think I was gonna get a dog, like I didn't think I had the opportunity to just because of my situation, my living situation. Um, but now that I know Fresh Patch is a thing, like I'm you know, I'm more open to it, or I got that dog and it's going great, like things like that. So really cool to hear.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Yeah, that's also always always fun to hear. I think there was another one, right? Well, oh no, no, that was that was the last one. That was it for accessible bathroom solutions. But yeah, no, I love that approach. I think that's just so great. Like, you know, why would we continue to especially just on the ESA side, you know what I mean? Like gotta think about the the main points first, people. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:03

And I and I really like that too for especially because a lot of you know, there's a lot of dogs that need homes that are already older, and yes, um, they would probably just walk in and not already know how to use that because it's grass. I mean, they would just walk in and be like, I'm good to go, versus training the puppy. So I I have I mean, I've done both, so I'm not saying on any level which one, but like uh, you know, the adopted adoption dogs or humane society stuff like that. Yeah, um, a lot of those dogs already know, oh cool, you walk in and they're like, you already have grass in here, great. So you might already be done training. You might already be done. Like it's easier to train with that than it is like the potty pads or the other things. So, you know, definitely something to think about. Puppies, just yeah, they're puppies for sure.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Yeah, and we actually like work with a lot of rescues and shelters locally, um, doing grass donations for you know, to give them a nice potty spot to go. So um, that's another thing with Fresh Patch, uh, is that you know, uh again, we we work locally. I mean, we'd like to expand eventually, but um, just preparing those dogs and and teaching them how to pee on Fresh Patch, it kind of opens up possibilities of oh, maybe they could be an apartment dog. And if if you adopt this dog, they'll already know how to use Fresh Patch. So that's that's a really another really cool kind of like rewarding thing.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

Yeah, and it's really cool to see some some breeds that like you were saying, sometimes puppies don't always take to it, but there are some we get videos they're like, he took to it as soon as I opened the box, but it's like because it's real grass, like you know, it makes sense, you know. They make it green.

SPEAKER_03 53:42

Well, and it's something too. I think I wish I would have known about your product months ago because um I had a a dog that and we have a yard, but um they you know that became diabetic just like overnight. And so we started using potty pads just because they can't get there fast enough. Um and I was thinking, man, that would have been a great product to have. Um they've they've since passed, but that would have been a great product to have um just to also supplement because you know when these dogs get even though I have a yard, when these dogs get older, um have mobility issues, it might be a really nice thing for them to just have right there too, you know, just uh for the in-case moment.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

So totally, definitely. Yeah, that's a great I I love that you just said that. That's that's huge. I mean, that makes so much sense. So if anybody's listening, you have these situations, you know, and you are hearing similar things, um, check out freshpatch.com, check it out, you know, get in touch, and we'll we'll help you out as best we can. Um, cool. Going to the last topic of the pod.

When Pets Become Life Saving

SPEAKER_01 54:47

Um, when a pet is the best medicine. So your experience about what pets do that therapists can't. Um and the first question is have you seen cases where a patient's progress shifted significantly after getting a pet?

SPEAKER_03 55:01

I've seen it save lives multiple multiple times. I've seen people that uh said that they would literally not be here. And you know, been in the middle of situations where the pets actually save their lives. So a hundred percent. There's nothing more significant than you know, than than saving a life. So absolutely definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

That's big. I mean, that's just a win I wanted to toss my toss my papers after that one. You know, that's that's all you need to hear right there. So great.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Yeah, see those. I don't know if you guys have seen those videos of like dogs who are trained to like recognize when they're um owners like having a seizure or like some sort of like medical emergency, like that always blows my mind.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

Yeah, no, that's amazing. Those dogs are incredible. Yeah, when they're able to put their head underneath their head and stuff, like I'm just that just brings even more joy. It's like, gosh, dogs are just amazing creatures. Yeah, they're just unconditional, yeah. Like what you said, you know, earlier in the podcast, too. It's just they your emotion, they're like they're gonna take to you, especially if you're giving them what they want too, and they're bringing the joys that they're looking for, like it's just gonna work out cohesively, which is it's just a beautiful thing, you know. So um last question, uh, still on that same topic, but what would you say to someone on the fence about getting a dog because they're not sure they're in a good enough place mentally?

SPEAKER_03 56:24

Well, first of all, I would say thank you for even considering that. Some people, you know, like you were saying earlier, it can be impulsive. Yeah, the fact that you're asking yourself that question, that you're on the fence, that's a good sign.

SPEAKER_01 56:36

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

It's a good sign that you're thinking, wait, let me figure this out. Um, so what I would say to you is, you know, set down it is cliche at it as it is, those pros and cons. What how would I deal with the bathroom situation? Number one, that's gonna be big, that's gonna be huge. How would I deal with the bathroom situation? Um, you know, finances, um, like I said, kind of doubling up on that because and having contingency plans because you know, dogs get into things, um, you know, and really, you know, saying, do I have the time, the money, the attention to put into this animal? Um, answer those questions for yourself. Um, if you're looking at an ESA, work with a clinician that is trained in this. Um, you know, talk to your doctor or therapist first, but certipet, we actually know that line of questioning. We are gonna take you through that and figure out is this right for you? Um, what would make more sense? Sometimes I see people switch to, well, I think actually a cat might make more sense. So um, you know, figuring out what makes sense for you. Um, but the fact that they're asking that question in the first place, that already makes me happy.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

Yeah, that's a good point. That's amazing. Oh, I do have one bonus question. Bonus question round. Bonus round.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

So yesterday

Bonus Rabbits As Emotional Support

SPEAKER_00 58:00

um we had this crazy thing happen where this is great. There was uh uh one of our neighbors came up to us and we're like, hey, like we found this abandoned carrier, and um there's this bunny hopping around, and like, you know, we can't catch him, but like keep your eyes open, and we were like, Oh, let's go catch this thing. Um, so we went out, we got some lettuce, and you know, we kind of enticed it with a little bit of lettuce. And we we scooped them up.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

They munch on the lettuce from time to time. We were told that they're actually not fond of carrots. Surprising, ironically, yeah, yeah. Which is funny. Yeah, that's the whole I know that's the whole you know, Easter and bunnies and carrots, but yeah, no.

SPEAKER_00 58:42

So um, so we're connected to like our local shelter and the head volunteer for like the bunny section of it. So we gave her a call and like, what do we do? And um she's like, Oh, uh, take it to the shelter. Um, and then she's like, Do you think you'd want to adopt it or foster? And I was like, Oh wow, I hadn't really thought about that, but um, yeah, so I'm thinking about fostering this bunny, and I'm wondering if bunnies are part of you know what you do, if they would kind of qualify and like how how they could be emotional support animals.

SPEAKER_03 59:19

Yeah, yeah. So um we only through certifet work with three different types of animals dogs, cats, and rabbits, um, just because like other things, uh like livestock zoning issues, you know, when there were many horses and digs, and then the exotic animals like monkeys and raccoons and all that stuff, and it just got too much because it's really hard to prove, like, oh, okay, well, having this possum in my house makes me feel better, or this snake makes me feel better, you know, back in you know, before 2021 in the Wild West, where you could take an ESA on the plane and they're like, I want to take my snake, and it's like, oh, great, that would make you calm, but then the other 50 people are bringing the freaking plane down because there's a snake. Absolutely not. So, you know, I really put my foot down and I said, I think credibility lends itself to what can we show actually has, you know, like the benefits versus and also non like people were like, what about a hedgehog? Well, there's some communicable diseases there, so there's just all you know, there's all these different reasons, but that's what we landed on. And with rabbits, um, yeah, there's a there's a lot. Uh first of all, they're very trainable. That really surprised me. There's people that I have clients that jump them, that take them to the little in their little bitty jumps, and I'm kind of like, I kind of want to get into rabbit jumping, to be honest. I mean, I just was like, okay, that looks pretty fun. I don't know if there's any local rabbit jumping groups, but it looks pretty fun. Um but uh but yeah, there's uh you know a lot to be said. I uh um rabbits in particular are used a lot in the autistic population. Oh, really? Um, because they're quieter. Uh they're very tactile because my goodness, I mean, our dogs and cats are soft, but like how they I mean, it's just you can't keep your hands off them, and they and they and the rabbit enjoys that generally. Um, and so uh, and then again, they're very trainable, but they're very quiet. Yep, and so there is a lot. I mean, I see ESAs for rabbits, you know, in general population as well, but um, in the autistic population is very helpful.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:34

Oh, that's so interesting. That makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:37

Yeah, like where it's a dog or cat can be a little overstimulating, you know, like the rabbits, yeah, yeah, total sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Yeah, no, that's good. I um it's funny you mentioned that because we actually did an adoption event a few weeks back, and there was uh a family there, and um, they had an autistic child, and they were like, we really want to get a dog or some sort of animal, but you know, they're sensitive to loud noises, so like we don't know how to handle that. And I wish I knew that before because I could have totally suggested that to them. But that's that's really good knowledge to have. And I'm really excited to join my uh local hopping community, so yeah, that's something to look forward to.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:18

Seriously, look, I mean, I was like, that's not a thing, and then I start looking them up, and I just got sucked down the rabbit hole again, pun intended. Um let's they have cute harnesses and they're jumping, and then the ones with the floppy ears when they jump, it's just like hysterical. Uh I was like, I could totally see going and setting up a lawn chair on the weekend. I'm like here with my rabbit ready to do some jumping.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:44

Sounds like a great time.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

Yeah, that sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:47

That sounds fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:49

Yeah, pretty excited about that. But yeah, thank you for answering that. That was not on the list of questions that we had, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:54

No, that's good. I was also you kind of expanded into too. I was gonna ask if you guys do any other pets outside. So I'm glad you answered that as well because I do know of a lot of people with like you said, back in the wild, wild west, you know, people taking snakes on planes and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

Coworker wants to adopt a raccoon, so oh, maybe there could be first I've heard of this.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:16

Don't recommend.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

Gotcha. We'll let it we'll let her know right after this.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:20

My mom's been feeding the raccoon on the back of her porch. She's like, I I named him Ricky Raccoon. I'm like, mom, stop feeding the raccoon. They will have friends. Oh, yeah, stop beating the raccoon. Oh, yeah. So cute though. I'm like until he gets old of you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

I know. I love how they they put out their little hands and grab things, and it is it is adorable.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:39

They are so human that it freaks me out. Yep, yeah, they freak me out.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:44

Because you can see them, they're smart and they'll figure things out. Like, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

Yeah. That's cool. Well, she's kind of I I've always wanted uh, I forget the technical term, but I've always wanted a bird of prey. Like to be able to um like dual gloves.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:58

Yeah, yeah, I've always wanted to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

I'm like, every time I see those, like you know, the OHI Raptor Center and stuff, it's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:04

I'm like, yeah, I'd love to be able to handle my my husband has has said that before. He's like, how cool would that be? Like, I'm you know, I'm gonna go falconing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:13

Yeah, falconry, yeah. Yeah, that's exactly okay, yeah, yeah. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

I my irrational pet, I've always wanted a pet bear. I know it'll never happen, but like in my dreams, like you liked Winnie the Pooh growing up, huh? Dude, heck yeah, Winnie the Pooh.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:28

Oh, my son has wanted a bobcat.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

Oh, that's cool. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:32

He has literally, I mean, we have kindergarten pictures where he's drawing bobcats, and this is the bobcat you're gonna get us. And I'm like, what's gonna happen when this kid goes to college in a few years? We're gonna just show up and he'll have a bobcat in his dorm room. Oh my gosh. That is not an emotional support animal. That is not legal, son.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

That is a predator. Awesome, perfect. Well, thanks for coming, going a little off topic with us right there. Those bonus question round, but appreciate it. That is all our questions for the for the podcast. Thank you again, Prairie. This was very awesome. Learned a lot, and um, yeah, thank you for for joining.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:15

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I love what you guys do. I'm anxious to uh you know recommend the product. Honestly, it's it's one of those things that it really does make it more accessible for more clients when I'm in that first round of questioning. So very cool, very cool product.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:30

Awesome, thank you so much. And for everybody listening or watching, smash that subscribe button on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify Podcast, wherever you listen to your podcast, follow at Fresh Patch on all social media, freshpatch.com for all your real grass potty needs, treats, poop bags. We got you covered. And then, prayer, if you want to give a shout out to yours as well one more time.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:53

Yeah, sirtapet.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

Jump right in.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

Surtipet.com. You heard it here. So if you're having problems. With your living situation, your landlord, or you just want some more like you know, mental mental health advice and you know how you can work with your dog. It's an amazing resource. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:11

Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:12

Check him out.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:12

Yeah, thank you again. And uh everybody else, we will see you on the next episode of the Fresh Patch Podcast. Bye bye. Thanks for listening to the Fresh Patch Podcast, where good pets get it. We hope you enjoyed the show. Give us a like or a follow and shop all real grass supplies at freshpatch.com.