25. Ownership Over Cancer — How McKenna Transformed Her Diagnosis Into Purpose

At 23, McKenna was living her best life in San Diego when her body started sending warning signals. Pain. Swelling. Fatigue. Tests revealed synovial sarcoma — a rare and aggressive soft tissue cancer that most people have never heard of. It was the kind of diagnosis that stops your world. 

But instead of letting cancer write her story, McKenna became the author. What got her through wasn't just medical treatment — it was her mindset, her ownership of her healing, and her refusal to be defined by what happened to her. Today, she's not just surviving — she's thriving, raising awareness, and showing people what it looks like to move through the hardest diagnosis imaginable with grace, honesty, and purpose. In this conversation, we talk about what it felt like to get that diagnosis, how she rebuilt her life after treatment, and why she's so committed to helping others recognize their own warning signs. 

Connect with McKenna: 

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kenna_inbloom 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatiwishiknewcancer 
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@kenna_inbloom 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@whatiwishiknewcancerpod Podcast "What I Wish I Knew": https://linktr.ee/whatiwishiknew?utm_source=linktree_profile_share&ltsid=c0af5fce-5e2a-419a-9151-a52e338caf96 

Aloha and thank you for being here! Connect with The Sick Burn Podcast: 

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• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@thomascraigviii 

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Credits: Hosted & Executive Produced by Thomas Craig VIII 

Produced by Voice & Video — Bill Lanzarotta 

Audio Engineer — Mickey Dixon 

Edited by — Kevin 

Graphics by — Jeff Lee 

Special Thanks — McKenna Avery 

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants and do not necessarily represent those of The Sick Burn Podcast, its affiliates, or any organizations we are associated with. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as professional advice. #SickBurnPodcast #OwnershipOverCancer #RareDiagnosis #SynovialSarcoma #CancerSurvivor #CancerRecovery #HealthJourney #Resilience #Healing #PersonalGrowth #MentalHealth #CancerAwareness #AdvocacyMatters #FindingPurpose #YourStoryMatters #InspiringStories #RealConversations #HealingJourney #HopeAndHealing #Strength

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;17;27
Speaker 1
It was very much like, okay, I know that I cannot do chemo anymore sort of thing until I remember talking to my doctor and being like, I, I can't do it anymore. And she was like, well, you kind of need to. And she was like, the only. And I was like, well, at least I did one session, right.

00;00;17;29 - 00;00;38;24
Speaker 1
So it's like the only other people who have not completed the six rounds, one person hasn't. And there they didn't make it. And hearing that was like crazy. But at the same time, I knew within me that, well, I'm going to be the one to make it. Why waste my last year of life just thinking about it not going well.

00;00;38;24 - 00;00;53;16
Speaker 1
I'd rather do that and still do everything in my power to heal, but have a good mindset around it and I'm going to truly, like, embrace this. Embrace this time.

00;00;53;18 - 00;00;58;25
Speaker 1
Use.

00;00;58;27 - 00;01;21;07
Speaker 2
Hello, I'm Thomas, a plane crash and burn survivor, and I started this podcast because I know that feeling all too well. I wanted to create a space where people who have been through it, or who are currently going through it, can find ways to overcome their own adversity and learn how to move forward, heal and grow. If that sounds like something you need in your life, please consider hitting like, subscribe and share this episode.

00;01;21;09 - 00;01;44;19
Speaker 2
You're exactly in the right place. Today's guest is living proof that a rare cancer diagnosis at 23 doesn't define your future. You can actually become your purpose. McKenna was living her best life in San Diego when her body started sending warning signals. Pain, swelling, fatigue test revealed synovial sarcoma, a rare and aggressive soft tissue cancer that most people have never heard of.

00;01;44;21 - 00;02;09;11
Speaker 2
It was a kind of diagnosis that stops your world. But instead of letting cancer write her story, McKenna became the author. What got her through wasn't just medical treatment. It was her mindset, her ownership of her healing, and her refusal to be defined by what happened to her. She wasn't just surviving. She was thriving. Raising awareness and showing people what it looks like to move through the hardest diagnosis imaginable with grace.

00;02;09;13 - 00;02;40;02
Speaker 2
Honestly and purpose. But in this conversation, we talk about what it felt like to get her diagnosis. How she rebuilt her life and why she's so committed to helping others recognize their own warning signs. So enjoy McKenna's story. Thank you so much for being here, McKenna. I just really appreciate it. From the moment I met you, too, you had this lightness and bubbly ness to you, and I just would have not guessed you had gone through what you went through and just talking to you more.

00;02;40;03 - 00;02;47;26
Speaker 2
I'm just like, man, what an a what a powerful story. But also like, what a light you are to overcome, to be overcome in something that's super hard.

00;02;47;28 - 00;02;59;10
Speaker 1
Thank you. That's so sweet. And same to you obviously like every room you walk in and everyone just like immediately is more energized. And I've seen it. So I appreciate you having me.

00;02;59;11 - 00;03;20;14
Speaker 2
I'll take that. Thank you. I don't want to get sad, but we were kind of before we even were recording, talking about some of the things we experienced. And we were both patients at UCSD. But can you take us back to, you know, your cancer diagnosis and everything you experienced in that moment? Because I just I can't imagine it just sounds so hard.

00;03;20;16 - 00;03;27;00
Speaker 1
100%, I think. So it was back in, what, 2023 and of 2023? I was.

00;03;27;03 - 00;03;27;22
Speaker 2
Not that long.

00;03;27;22 - 00;03;46;05
Speaker 1
Ago. It was not that long ago. And that was just like the the start of it. It was I, I was at this beach to go back to like the very beginning. And I was in Laguna going through the waves, and I got stung by a jellyfish and then I it was just like, okay, so first time was kind of cool.

00;03;46;09 - 00;04;00;06
Speaker 1
And then like two weeks later, I just launched my company, Empress, and it was like very stress induced of time. And I went on a run and I was on the phone with my mom and sister while running. I was ultra and multitasker.

00;04;00;13 - 00;04;02;04
Speaker 2
Good for you. Yeah, that's hard to do.

00;04;02;05 - 00;04;19;24
Speaker 1
Yeah. Like you don't have the military people saying all they run is kind of like that. And and then all of a sudden they get this, like, shooting pain in my ankle and, like, my whole leg. And I was like, oh my gosh, what is this? And I thought I broke something. And then later my leg just started like swelling a lot.

00;04;19;24 - 00;04;43;12
Speaker 1
And I was like, I looked it up. Oh, it's a delayed reaction to a jellyfish sting, obviously, because that's what web MD said. Right. And then we I do like the t that test, my with my primary and they basically check for like a blood clot too, because it was just swelling like beyond what's normal and put the blood clot came back negative.

00;04;43;17 - 00;04;54;25
Speaker 1
And then I went through like so many series of tests and was treated for a blood blood clot because during an ultrasound there were like, these are the two huge blood clots we've ever seen.

00;04;54;29 - 00;05;00;17
Speaker 2
Like, yeah. So they did find some. And at this moment you're like, oh, it's a blood clot. That's what's happening.

00;05;00;18 - 00;05;18;13
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I'm like, I go on blood thinners and just kind of going through that process. And then, nothing was happening though. The swelling wasn't going down and it was kind of like two, two times the size of my other leg. And it was really hard to walk at that point where, like, I think it's something more.

00;05;18;21 - 00;05;30;29
Speaker 1
So advocating for a lot more scans and kind of calling every day to get any movement done, because the whole system's very bombarded with so many people needing help. And so it's.

00;05;30;29 - 00;05;32;28
Speaker 2
Just. Yeah, and it's just low.

00;05;32;28 - 00;05;33;19
Speaker 1
And yeah.

00;05;33;26 - 00;05;40;26
Speaker 2
You know, process like you have to get your primary to recommend to someone else and you got it. You know, that's why it's like it's nice to have a PPO, but then it's expensive.

00;05;40;26 - 00;05;41;11
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;05;41;12 - 00;05;52;11
Speaker 2
You know, or like for me it was like my action was worker's comp and that's all I was saying because somebody has to approve what you think you need and blah, blah, blah. So yes, you're at this moment for yourself though.

00;05;52;13 - 00;06;05;17
Speaker 1
Yeah. And it's like that whole rigmarole for sure that you're probably not trained in. And like the worker's comp, it's no one really trained you. Like if you get injured on site for work, this is the steps you take.

00;06;05;17 - 00;06;25;10
Speaker 2
And true. True. I mean, I guess for some people does do that. But again, H.R. is normally to protect the company, not to and protect you as an employee. And, yes. So there's various medical systems where we're talking about here. But I want to I want to jump into like what happened with you. So you're trying to advocate for yourself.

00;06;25;12 - 00;06;38;01
Speaker 1
Yeah. And then I get some further scans done. And I remember it was a Saturday night at midnight. I was like, living in P.B., and I had just gotten home from some fun event, and that was.

00;06;38;06 - 00;06;38;24
Speaker 2
With the swollen.

00;06;38;24 - 00;06;39;18
Speaker 1
Leg. Yeah.

00;06;39;25 - 00;06;42;08
Speaker 2
Oh, party stuff, everything.

00;06;42;10 - 00;07;03;19
Speaker 1
It was during my, like, Google go era where I was just busy, packed schedule all the time. Yeah. And and then I like check my chart because like a notification pops up and it's like you're, v I, I guess I forgot this part, but we did. It wasn't the blood clot after all. They did a scan and there was a mass blocking the veins.

00;07;03;19 - 00;07;25;01
Speaker 1
And so that's why it was looking like a blood clot. And so I got a surgery that extracted that mass. And after the point of, like, my doctor's being like, you know what, I don't know what it is like, blah, blah. And so they removed it. And then that night I get a notification, it's like positive for synovial sarcoma.

00;07;25;03 - 00;07;46;24
Speaker 1
And my roommate at the time was a vet and I was like, hey, do you know what this is saying? Like, I don't I feel like it's wrong. Is there any way. And I was like, well, just because did it says like it's cancer. Like it doesn't mean I have cancer. It was just like, oh, that the tumor had cancer, like kind of playing all these mind games.

00;07;46;26 - 00;07;49;06
Speaker 2
So that's what you're kind of telling yourself that.

00;07;49;08 - 00;07;58;16
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I definitely believed it too, cause I'm like I don't know how these things work, but I've seen a lot of movies. And I was like, do they ever say, I don't know?

00;07;58;19 - 00;08;10;23
Speaker 2
Yeah, because in the movies and TV it's like, you have cancer. Yeah. I mean, also, I hope they wouldn't say that to someone, but you also need to tell the truth. And so synovial.

00;08;10;23 - 00;08;11;14
Speaker 1
Sarcoma.

00;08;11;14 - 00;08;12;00
Speaker 2
Sarcoma.

00;08;12;05 - 00;08;36;28
Speaker 1
So it's like a cancer of the soft tissue. And so it was like right in my hip slash groin was where the tumor was. And it was like very much denial in the beginning of like yeah. No like we're good. We'll just get that out of there like all of that stuff. But since they didn't know it was cancer in the beginning, the they didn't know to take like the positive margins or like to take more than just the tumor out.

00;08;37;01 - 00;09;03;04
Speaker 1
And so when you extract it like that, it, it almost like facilitates in the spreading of the cancer. Because now you've opened up the, the boundaries and barriers of this tumor. So it had positive margins. So it had spread. And there's my lymph nodes and all of that stuff. And it was just like a hole. It definitely felt like a movie, even though it's less cinematic because someone wasn't like you.

00;09;03;04 - 00;09;06;20
Speaker 1
Was cancer right. This app on my phone did.

00;09;06;23 - 00;09;21;09
Speaker 2
Yeah. So you find that out? Denial, I guess. Movie sets in. Where does it go from there? Like. Yeah, because I know eventually you go on this amazing trip to New Zealand, right? Yeah, yeah.

00;09;21;11 - 00;09;55;07
Speaker 1
And so after that, they're like, all right, this is the treatment plan. Like, I meet with the oncologist. They're like 4 to 6 rounds of this Red devil chemo. So it's like the most crazy intense chemo you can get on the market. And then after that do radiation and just, like, blast the area and essentially, like, burn, burn it on the inside out and then another limb saving surgery where they would just take as much as they could from that whole area.

00;09;55;07 - 00;10;18;02
Speaker 1
So to like, take away the risk of having to amputate. Yeah. And I mean, in my head I was like, all right, that's six months and then that's nine months. I'll be back to work and I'll be back healthy and like a year and a half easy. I can do that. And it just felt like so boom, boom, bam, it's going to be over and everything's going to go back to normal.

00;10;18;02 - 00;10;18;08
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;10;18;09 - 00;10;38;07
Speaker 2
I'm sorry, I'm not laughing at like you because I'm sure it's like it sure is really scary. But the way you're describing it, it's like, it's funny because I guess I had that a little bit in my mind too, in the hospital, because I was so independent, and I was so, just, I feel like I had all the ability in the world to make whatever happened.

00;10;38;09 - 00;10;57;03
Speaker 2
I could make it happen. And and then I couldn't, like, get out of bed. And then I couldn't, like, talk, I couldn't move, and I was like, whoa, this is awesome. This realization of like, oh, this is really bad. Hit me. And that was really hard for me to take. Because to your point, everything was kind of like, boom, boom, bam, I could do this.

00;10;57;05 - 00;11;06;05
Speaker 2
Like, I'll set it up. Oh, it's not working. I'll fix it. Oh, I, you know, I didn't run a marathon, but in my mind, if it's like, if I wanted to, I could have just done it, you know.

00;11;06;08 - 00;11;12;09
Speaker 1
Was there. I might actually finally hit you that it wasn't going to be so easy. Like, do you remember that switch?

00;11;12;09 - 00;11;36;01
Speaker 2
Yeah. I can't like, pinpoint it, but it was definitely the first hospital. And I had the track in my throat and my dad was trying to do that. I need my dad to do something and so they made this board of all these different commands like water, like scratch or whatever, like simple, simple things. And I couldn't really point to it and I couldn't tell him what I needed.

00;11;36;01 - 00;11;50;25
Speaker 2
And I was like, oh my God, like, I can't do anything. And you're just like, yeah, talk about like, ego death. Instantly I was like, I'm, you know, a baby, like less than, you know, a baby. I'm just I'm so helpless right now.

00;11;50;26 - 00;11;54;20
Speaker 1
And trapped is is what it sounds like to totally that.

00;11;54;21 - 00;12;08;09
Speaker 2
Yeah, I kind of associate things differently because in my mind that's a different mental health disorder. But yes. Yes, to your point exactly. Yeah. So what about what about you? Where was that realization?

00;12;08;12 - 00;12;21;17
Speaker 1
Oh, I feel like once I started the chemo, it was like then I realized, okay, this is getting a whole lot different than what I thought. So I think that was the moment.

00;12;21;24 - 00;12;29;05
Speaker 2
Okay, so did you you've kind of held off on most of the chemo, though, before you went to New Zealand, right?

00;12;29;07 - 00;12;52;22
Speaker 1
Yeah. So basically it was like, okay, this is your treatment plan. But before we do that at home, like a consultation happen where they're like, if you want to ever have like your own kids, it might be time to do fertility preservation. And I was like, oh, I haven't even thought about kids. Honestly, like, I'm not even sure what I want or, like.

00;12;52;28 - 00;12;53;25
Speaker 2
If you want kids.

00;12;53;25 - 00;13;19;14
Speaker 1
Yeah, all of that stuff, because I was like, I don't know, I just got diagnosed with cancer. I can't really think about my life for like that. Far ended in advance. And so but to do the fertility preservation was right around the holidays. We're heading around like November, December at this point. And so I knew that it was going to take a couple weeks after the fertility preservation to then do like have the office be open for all of the chemo, whatever.

00;13;19;14 - 00;13;50;20
Speaker 1
And so I, I saw this window of time where I could take a life changing trip just in case things didn't work out. And I was I've always been of the mentality of like, live like you're dying anyway. And so I've been to this point as well. I was so grateful to feel like, you know what, worst case, if I don't make it, I do feel like I've lived a life that I feel really at peace with, like I've done so much and I've traveled and started a company and gone through other adversity.

00;13;50;20 - 00;14;13;21
Speaker 1
I've spent time with, like family and friends and like just bucket list crossing off that. It really it made me more chill about the whole thing a little bit. But there's still and then it was like, okay to do list aside, why do you want to live in that was to to experience more and to make it impact in like to just turn over every rock on this planet.

00;14;13;21 - 00;14;29;10
Speaker 1
And so that's what this trip symbolized of like before going on this, I want to do one more thing where I'm in my I have a whole body. I'm like able and all of those things. And it was like a celebration of life during that time.

00;14;29;13 - 00;14;48;25
Speaker 2
That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. I love what you said about the the piece too, because I think there was a moment I've talked about this before, but it's like I had a moment where I was in the hospital. I did think I died. I was like, I was in this medically induced coma and I couldn't it felt like I was just awake, but just seeing the craziest stuff.

00;14;48;25 - 00;15;08;03
Speaker 2
But I remember that moment. There's there's definitely like, specific moment where I thought I was dying. And to this day, I try to explain this like the amount of peace I had about what you said. You know, like the things I had done in life, the, you know, I knew I could have made a better impact. I knew I could have been a better person.

00;15;08;03 - 00;15;32;05
Speaker 2
But I'm like, you tried hard, you tried to be a good person. You, like, loved as much as you could. You know, there was this piece of like, you did it, you know, like, you can you can let go now. And it was to this day, like, it's like the most amazing. I've never felt anything like it. And and then coming back to what you were saying, like it's like, oh, well, you're alive now, so like, deal with this was just like, what?

00;15;32;07 - 00;15;52;01
Speaker 2
You know? Yeah. Then I'm like, wait, like, I'm missing fingers now, and like, we, I can't. It's hard to walk in like everything's sore and like. So I mean, I just so get that. I appreciate you sharing that because I just feel like I can super like I can just really relate to that. And I can also relate to, like, why you'd want to go on this trip and just like, who knows what the future holds, like, let's do it.

00;15;52;01 - 00;16;24;09
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so I went for three weeks to New Zealand with one of my best friends, and we just like literally took a truck and camped around the entire country. And it felt so good to be like at every moment making a decision of, of like I'm doing this just because I want to and like nothing else, like that feeling of presence that like in the moment presence that it was on a layer of, yeah, it was a layer of like presence that I've never experienced before, I guess.

00;16;24;09 - 00;16;27;07
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I'm sure you felt that too.

00;16;27;10 - 00;16;48;08
Speaker 2
Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's funny because like, we're kind of the feelings are the same. Like they really are like the situations for us, you know, are so different. But yeah, you know, I think that moment of presence though hit me when I got out of the hospital. Yeah. And once I was a little better because all I wanted to do was not be in the present.

00;16;48;08 - 00;16;49;00
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;16;49;00 - 00;16;54;26
Speaker 2
And, you know, I, I don't know, were you experiencing pain when you were in, New Zealand or.

00;16;54;26 - 00;17;22;09
Speaker 1
Well, I hadn't started any of the treatments yet. And so the only pain I was experiencing was from the leg swelling and, like, having to, I don't know, I was, like, wearing these, like, this thing to keep my leg together, essentially. And so there was definitely like, the leg pain, but it was way more emotional of like kind of that, that unraveling that already started from my interior, my emotions, my spirituality, all of that stuff that was starting to like crack open.

00;17;22;09 - 00;17;25;24
Speaker 1
And that was a layer of feeling that was different.

00;17;25;29 - 00;17;46;14
Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay. So that's I think where we are different in the timing but still experiencing the same thing. Yeah. Because like I was in so much pain from the jump of the accident, I wanted to like, not be in the present moment as much as possible. And I was I was big into meditating before I was a runner like you.

00;17;46;14 - 00;18;08;05
Speaker 2
I would go out and run, and that's how I kind of, like, would calm myself down. And then when those things weren't available to me anymore, I had to find new ways of of trying to think. And it wasn't until I started to go into therapy and started, just being able to kind of and not necessarily reframe, but also just accept what was that I was able to become more present.

00;18;08;07 - 00;18;30;27
Speaker 2
But it I think, I think you're experiencing this natural moment of presence, which is so hard these days. And it's a beautiful thing. Like it really, I feel like it just makes you feel, you know, like the world is beautiful, like the world is abundant, like you are abundant. You can do anything and like how special moments are.

00;18;30;29 - 00;18;35;17
Speaker 2
And I think it's really amazing that you got to experience that before things got really tough.

00;18;35;22 - 00;18;51;18
Speaker 1
Yeah. Because you didn't get any sort of warning as far as like what was to come. And I feel like I did have this window of time to like, kind of prepare myself for as much as I could. And I know you said that you didn't have, like, the regrets necessarily, like, you.

00;18;51;18 - 00;19;06;20
Speaker 2
Yeah, I definitely agree. Regrets. More just like, did I do everything I did? I do everything right. And while it was so crazy for me, it was like I looked over all these experiences in my life and I was like, you did that pretty good. You didn't do that good. You did that good. You didn't do that.

00;19;06;20 - 00;19;22;29
Speaker 2
Why didn't you speak up? And like, I felt immense amount of guilt about it. But when I thought I was actually dying that moment, I was like, you're going to the white light. It's done. There was so much peace, and it was like, you tried your best. You're a human who's having a human experience, and you did try your best.

00;19;22;29 - 00;19;44;21
Speaker 2
And then I had peace about it. But I think for me after that it was like, you better, you know, maybe I get too political now. Maybe I see things a little bit too abruptly, but it's because I also know I had so much regret about not doing things when I thought I was going to die, that it feels like I have this urgency or this compulsion now to just get it out.

00;19;44;24 - 00;19;45;25
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00;19;45;25 - 00;19;52;25
Speaker 1
So did that look like just flashing moments of, oh, this is where you messed up or whatever? Like, how did that actually come to life?

00;19;52;29 - 00;19;56;01
Speaker 2
Yeah, kind of sorry. And I don't want it to to take away from what?

00;19;56;02 - 00;19;57;13
Speaker 1
No obviously.

00;19;57;17 - 00;20;14;13
Speaker 2
Yeah I know, but I would definitely want it to be more about you and your experience. But yeah, it was kind of these like and not like flashing in and out, but it was just like jumps to different points in my life. The situation in middle school, a situation when I was a little kid and they weren't in chronological order.

00;20;14;13 - 00;20;31;07
Speaker 2
Right. It was just like moments through my life, like a time that, you know, I thought I got bullied, a time that I didn't speak up for someone, a time that I really wanted to say something here, and I didn't because I was nervous or I was, you know, afraid that they were going to be like, you know, I don't know, criticize me or something.

00;20;31;09 - 00;20;55;16
Speaker 2
And, and then waking up and not being able to speak for like months, that feeling of, I have so much to say and that I can't say it just was like a pressure cooker in me for months. So you have these moments taking back to you. You have these moments to prepare. What is coming up for you in these moments?

00;20;55;18 - 00;21;19;24
Speaker 1
Well, in this preparation, kind of like dreamy. Oh, traveling, you know, New Zealand, all of these things. It's like, on the surface, really wonderful. And and then having these, like, slight reminders of this thing that's looming over me in this future of scariness that lies ahead. Yeah. And I was I'm so different now. But at that point I was a show of an a void kind of person.

00;21;19;24 - 00;21;43;16
Speaker 1
So when it leaked through, it was like a lot of resistance. Yeah. And I do remember my friend Haley, who I was with, would invite me to go deeper emotionally of like, hey, you don't have to act like everything's okay. Like, what does it look like if you actually just admit any sort of emotional or physical pain that you're in, rather than masking and doing a facade for everyone to make sure you're okay to everyone else.

00;21;43;16 - 00;22;09;01
Speaker 1
Like all of that stuff. And she really pushed me to kind of allow myself to admit to any negative feelings as a yeah, as an overly optimistic person in a way. Not that there's I'm definitely still an optimist, but at that point it was like bridging on the side of still denial. Yeah, she was bringing me back to Earth a little bit, and I think that helped.

00;22;09;03 - 00;22;22;00
Speaker 1
It helped with the drop off of okay, now it's real. Like I think if she wasn't there, then it would have been an even bigger transition of realizing the the future that was ahead. Right.

00;22;22;03 - 00;22;33;16
Speaker 2
So I'm so curious about like, what did it feel like embracing some of that, you know, as somebody who would avoid or, or like try to look at the positive more than the negative in that situation?

00;22;33;19 - 00;22;57;05
Speaker 1
Yeah. Oh, is it a good question because it was it felt like a lot of fear of as soon as I opened just a little bit of these bad or low vibration feelings, it's going to take over and it's going to I won't be able to get out of it. And there was already because it was like, yeah, I was overly optimistic.

00;22;57;05 - 00;23;16;17
Speaker 1
But behind the scenes, I was struggling with a lot of deep depression that I would not tell anyone about. And so it was really scary. Scary to be like, oh, you know, there might be a little more lying underneath. And if I leak it out, it's going to all spill out and I'll never be able to come out of it.

00;23;16;19 - 00;23;17;25
Speaker 1
And so it was.

00;23;18;00 - 00;23;19;07
Speaker 2
You can't put the toothpaste back in.

00;23;19;08 - 00;23;49;19
Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I think the it just felt like even the smallest little like admitting the smallest little doubts or whatever felt like such a big feat because it was all of these steps to go through to just get to that little. Yeah. Maybe I'm uncomfortable in not saying, but everything's fine. Just maybe I'm in control because I've always been of the person of being comparing myself and my traumas to other people, invalidating my own experience all the time.

00;23;49;19 - 00;24;01;05
Speaker 1
Well, least I'm not like that. Or at least I didn't go through this and so be grateful. Like, yeah, being so hard on myself in that way. And I'm like, okay, that's not helping anyone. Like just, yeah, let yourself feel. Yeah.

00;24;01;05 - 00;24;24;19
Speaker 2
If it was, if it didn't take me like 36 years to meet you, I, I would feel like we're twins because I know exactly the same thing where I was always like, I would do that, too. I'm like, well, other people have it worse, so, you know, I can't complain or, you know, I don't want to talk about how I'm feeling sad today because other people you know, like they have less available to them or they're growing up in harsher conditions.

00;24;24;19 - 00;24;37;19
Speaker 2
And. Yeah, and I would kind of diminish what I was going through because, you know, I didn't want to seem like a complainer or a Debbie Downer or also I just didn't feel like mine was as valid as other people's.

00;24;37;25 - 00;24;41;14
Speaker 1
Do you know why that started? Like the origins of why you did that?

00;24;41;17 - 00;24;48;25
Speaker 2
Let me ask you that. Yeah, I mean, I yeah, I think I have an idea, but I yeah, I want to hear where that comes from in you.

00;24;48;28 - 00;25;41;00
Speaker 1
I think maybe like over, like overcompensating for not wanting to be ungrateful and not wanting to be a complainer and in realizing and taking that, taking that too far and also like growing up around some people who were very down bad and then being like, well, I don't have space to complain because I don't have a space to like, showcase because I'm witnessing these things that are on a whole nother plane and, and also like a people, I guess, having like a lot more negativity and then feeling like I need to make up for it with the positivity to restore balance and that that muscle got built so much that it became overpowering.

00;25;41;02 - 00;26;02;13
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. Gosh, we really did. We kind of lived the same way. I totally was that person to where, you know, whether it was, oh, yeah, I'm my mind's going to thinking about, like, work. When I got into the professional world, it was there's all these people who are negative, and they were really, like, bummed about certain situations or even the smallest inconvenience.

00;26;02;13 - 00;26;21;05
Speaker 2
And I thought I had to counteract their negativity with my positivity. And you're right, I think that becomes a muscle. It's a good thing in a lot of ways. I think it's I mean, science will even show that being more positive about things is healthier. You get better results out of it than being negative, but you were also human.

00;26;21;05 - 00;26;30;10
Speaker 2
We have to acknowledge that some things do suck, some things that are hard, and especially what I know now to your point, not invalidating what we're going through. Yeah.

00;26;30;12 - 00;26;43;03
Speaker 1
And then it turns into suppression versus just positivity. It's like because we're ignoring something that's there versus just feeling the positivity because. And then that suppression manifests into all sorts of weird things.

00;26;43;03 - 00;27;01;07
Speaker 2
Totally. Yeah. And then for me, you know, growing up, I was always a pretty happy go lucky kid. But there would be moments where I'd kind of explode and I get really mad. And yeah, and that's not healthy either. That's not a good way to go about it. So, okay, you go on this amazing trip, you're starting to confront these tough emotions.

00;27;01;10 - 00;27;06;12
Speaker 2
What is it like at the end of the trip and then coming back to, I guess, quote unquote reality?

00;27;06;15 - 00;27;25;05
Speaker 1
Yeah. So coming back, it was like, okay, well, I used all the points that I had because that's how we went on the trip. It's like using all the points, using all the miles that I've accumulated for this trip down the line and and relying on friends in New Zealand to help us, like where we're staying or like borrowing the trunk, all these things.

00;27;25;12 - 00;27;51;24
Speaker 1
And so just using my resources to go on this trip. But and then like coming back in like everything like, okay, now it's time to be resourceful in other ways of I need help basically to go through all of this process. So I start chemo and, it was like I was like, week in the hospital, 24 seven infusion over and out.

00;27;51;25 - 00;28;10;09
Speaker 1
That was the plan. And then I was like in walked in this beautiful. It was honestly a beautiful hospital room that I had all to myself. Big TV, beautiful view and, I was like, this is so much better than what I thought it would be, honestly. And I like laid down and everyone so nice checking on me, all these things.

00;28;10;16 - 00;28;35;03
Speaker 1
And then it was the start. Then I see the people come in with the full on body like hazardous material they can't even wear. They're completely like bubbled, like an astronaut. And the handling this bag, that's a fluid that's going to go inside of me where they can't even breathe it. And I was like, what's happening? And then it was like starting the infusion and it was okay.

00;28;35;06 - 00;29;09;07
Speaker 1
But by day three, it started to go really downhill, just like the amount of pain. And like I still remember the, like, internal, like the deepest itch that I ever had of, like, my whole body was like itching, but like a burning itch that I could not scratch right. And it was like after honestly, I would anytime something chemo related would come up, I would PTSD have the itch come back, even though it was like a phantom sensation.

00;29;09;09 - 00;29;30;26
Speaker 1
And and then it was just like the constant nausea of like, like that feeling. We're about to throw up and like all of the, like, tingle, like the dizziness, whatever that feeling. But in them sustained for days. And it was just retching. And now, like I was just like this whole thing that it was like, I hate being nauseated.

00;29;30;26 - 00;29;43;17
Speaker 1
I hate being like, I would I would choose another type of pain over, like, nausea because it's just like, I don't like the never ending about to, but nothing's happening since it, I don't know, I'd.

00;29;43;17 - 00;29;52;23
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, I get over it. I've had some like wild nights where you get inside, you're just like, yeah, yeah. You're right. That's just the worst thing ever.

00;29;52;26 - 00;30;18;08
Speaker 1
But it was interesting too, because in my, in my mind, I was like, I was here. But later on, like, after that, I just. I can't even remember the past like the, the last couple days, like, some people I know visited me, but I don't even remember them really being there. And I it's a function of just like the medicine giving you like chemo brain and all these things.

00;30;18;11 - 00;30;45;22
Speaker 1
But it was very, very clear on the like the last day. And I was just like, I'm never doing this again. Like, so I will never, ever do this again. And that's what I told myself. And but everyone in my cancer community and my doctors are like all the pain you experience, all the uncomfortability you forget before the next session because you get about like three weeks of recovery before the next round to like, have your body come up a little bit.

00;30;45;26 - 00;30;57;29
Speaker 1
Yeah, but my levels were completely falling. I was not responding. No one responds well to chemo, but like, oh my, everything was just zero. Oh man. And I was like, there's no way I'm forgetting this actually. Yeah.

00;30;58;01 - 00;31;04;18
Speaker 2
So that's an interesting point. So did you remember it because, yeah. Okay. You did okay.

00;31;04;18 - 00;31;25;18
Speaker 1
I did remember it and I even so it was like time to schedule my next, my next session. And because it's like it's not even like you go through the chemo, it's all bad. And then you go home and you can recover. It's like you go home and it's still horrible. And like, I quit working and I because I could not function like, let alone anything.

00;31;25;18 - 00;31;42;10
Speaker 1
And I was like, I don't know how people do this or if they have kids or if they have they can't quit or something, like there's just no way. And I couldn't get out of bed or think or anything. So it was it was very like, yeah, I'm not going to forget and I need to find another pathway.

00;31;42;12 - 00;31;55;08
Speaker 1
And at that point one of my I was talking to one of my friends and she sent me this like Instagram like influencer essentially in the more alternative space.

00;31;55;08 - 00;31;56;24
Speaker 2
And like a holistic.

00;31;56;24 - 00;32;17;29
Speaker 1
Approach, a holistic approach. And it just I remember the videos of this woman who was healing from another thyroid cancer. And there was this, this shot of everything she tried and but she was like, had this had this light to her still that I knew mine had completely diminished. I was on steroids and all these things and my face was all swollen, whatever.

00;32;17;29 - 00;32;37;28
Speaker 1
And she was like clear and like trying, like she just seemed so healthy as she was moving through cancer. And I was like, I want that. Like, I think that's what my healing is going to look like. I want that like. And so that was the the pivot to I want to now try everything else because this isn't working for me.

00;32;37;28 - 00;32;53;04
Speaker 1
And I completely respect every pathway that someone takes, because I know that the only the individual knows how to heal themselves. And for that moment, and for me, it was like, oh well, I need to throw the kitchen sink at it and actually try everything.

00;32;53;07 - 00;33;20;16
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's pretty amazing. You're right. It is like medical recommendations are tricky and I, I absolutely believe doctors, I respect them, I respect all the hard work and all the training. But there is a certain point where you have to trust yourself. And it sounds like you met that moment when your friends that you, that influencer, I, I definitely had moments and I became a lot bigger advocate for the medical care I needed.

00;33;20;16 - 00;33;38;22
Speaker 2
I was like, I'm not doing this type of treatment anymore, I am I will continue to do this, but I'm not doing that. And it is it's weird because we're also not taught how to talk to doctors or how to talk to them about like what we feel like we need. And it's a scary thing also because you're like, what if it doesn't work?

00;33;38;22 - 00;33;50;00
Speaker 2
What if I feel like this is what I need and then it doesn't work? But I love that. I also want to like, shout out the, because is it the same friend that you went on the trip with? Who sent you that video? No.

00;33;50;00 - 00;34;02;11
Speaker 1
Different one that wasn't even living in the state. But she just knows me and knows that I was very open to people sending different ideas. Because some people are going through treatment they don't want like that outside.

00;34;02;19 - 00;34;02;27
Speaker 2
Of the.

00;34;02;29 - 00;34;24;28
Speaker 1
Ideas and whatever. Have you tried this? Whatever. So but I was very like, you know what, send anything and whatever sticks, I'll take. And at that point it was very it was really like, okay, I know that I need to try something different, but I don't know where to start yet. And it was relying on community. It was it was.

00;34;24;28 - 00;34;34;29
Speaker 1
Another friend had come into town and stayed with me during that time. And he was like, I, I'm in this natural healing group chat. And he was like, there's this one guy.

00;34;35;03 - 00;34;38;18
Speaker 2
As what normally does, you know, like.

00;34;38;20 - 00;35;02;12
Speaker 1
It's crazy. There's this guy that I think you should talk to, whatever. And there was definitely oncologists incredible in their specialty and they know how to kill cancer and all of that stuff. And there's a need for broader quality of life as you go through this, as in quality of life, as a holistic perspective, all of these things.

00;35;02;12 - 00;35;27;15
Speaker 1
And so that's what I felt like I was missing at that point. And so this, this like, healing coach came into my life and helped me move through one of many of my modalities that I ended up trying. But like Joe Dispenza, inner work and like the the healing meditations and all of these things that there are now significant data behind it working.

00;35;27;15 - 00;35;55;29
Speaker 1
So like UCSD has partnered with the Joe Dispenza, organization and has attached, like the science and the numbers to the seemingly abstract and mystical. And this partnership has been like, so wonderful to see. And I at first looking at the data, was in a skeptic and it was like, totally, oh, does that work? Like whatever. And overcoming that and being like, there's the science behind it.

00;35;56;02 - 00;36;01;06
Speaker 1
And I at any time can decide if it if it's working for me.

00;36;01;07 - 00;36;22;07
Speaker 2
Right. Yeah. Or if you're, I guess, willing to stop or feel like you need to stop doing that, that that option is there. I love it because you just kind of you were very open to the possibilities and I think especially what I look at, people who have not gone through something as traumatic or, you know, everybody has their own trauma and hard things.

00;36;22;07 - 00;36;41;07
Speaker 2
But this was, you know, I give you so much props because it's so scary. And, your openness to just try to explore in this moment that felt, you know, like the world feels like it's closing in on you, and yet you still allowed more of the world to kind of give. And I think that's a very tricky thing to do.

00;36;41;07 - 00;36;42;29
Speaker 2
So I give you so much props on that.

00;36;43;04 - 00;36;44;00
Speaker 1
Thank you.

00;36;44;07 - 00;37;02;04
Speaker 2
Yeah. So how much of that do you start taking in as far as, like the holistic approach here? And are you doing this with chemo or are you completely not doing that anymore? How much of it has now just in terms of your treatment has just gone to the holistic approach?

00;37;02;07 - 00;37;22;02
Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean, it was very much like, okay, I know that I cannot do chemo anymore sort of thing. And so I remember talking to my doctor and being like, I, I can't do it anymore. And she was like, well, you kind of need to. And she was like the only. And I was like, well, at least I did one session right.

00;37;22;04 - 00;37;43;15
Speaker 1
I was like, the only other people who have not completed the six rounds. One person has it and they're they didn't make it. And hearing that was like crazy. But at the same time, I knew within me that, well, I'm going to be the one to make it and and choosing that and then also being like, okay, conventional alternative merge them.

00;37;43;15 - 00;38;06;23
Speaker 1
And so I did proton radiation. And so proton radiation is is different than regular radiation because it just targets the inner. So normal radiation goes all the way through the body. Right. Proton stops right around where they're targeting. And so it's a little less damaging, but it's a lot more complicated. And all these things. So that was like the conventional route that I still took.

00;38;06;28 - 00;38;39;11
Speaker 1
And on top of that I did Urso. So Rick Simpson oil, it's a branch of like the cannabis plant that's like very intense. But it has been used very anecdotally to help people move through a cancer diagnosis. And then I did ozone therapy. So that's like in it's ozone is it's just O2 going in your body and like strengthening the immune system and then like high dose vitamin C IVs going into my body and then complete lifestyle and diet changes.

00;38;39;11 - 00;39;12;27
Speaker 1
So I followed the Chris work Chris beat cancer cookbook. And so he was diagnosed with stage three colon cancer, and he just changed his diet and lifestyle and then eradicated his diagnosis. On top of that, doing all of these different, like mushrooms, Anti-parasitic. So like, kind of like interesting low, low visibility gene therapies and, and and honestly, anything I was like one of these got to work like, and if I do all of them, my odds will be higher.

00;39;12;27 - 00;39;14;20
Speaker 1
That was my math. Yeah.

00;39;14;23 - 00;39;34;28
Speaker 2
So. Okay. What are you what are you telling yourself as. I mean, it sounds like you said you knew you were going to make it. Was there any doubt that sets it? Is there any, like. I don't know if this is working. Or I guess I want to, like, kind of dive into the thoughts that are going on here.

00;39;35;01 - 00;39;45;11
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so I would say Rick was like my, my natural healer. Right. And he really helped with my whole mentality behind everything. And I so.

00;39;45;14 - 00;39;46;19
Speaker 2
Could you share some of that like.

00;39;46;19 - 00;39;55;08
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. And so that one because like Joe, Joe Dispenza and he works off of his like kind of framework.

00;39;55;08 - 00;39;56;01
Speaker 2
Program or something.

00;39;56;01 - 00;40;24;08
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so in that it's imagining and visualize and feeling the healing before it happens. And so really like a lot of meditations of, of just stepping into that future self that is completely free of, free of disease and beyond that of just pure health. And like embodying that to every cell in your body to tell your cells what direction it's going to like.

00;40;24;11 - 00;40;46;20
Speaker 1
Yeah. Just as we like lift an arm, we can also kind of in inform our body of what we want to go to you and get to you and that was like the I had to like, live in this fantasy world, in this like other dimension in a way to like to address my and change my feet in a.

00;40;46;20 - 00;41;05;10
Speaker 2
Way, to just address your needs and where you where you want to be. But I it's funny that you were talking about this because I was literally just reading something yesterday. And there's another podcast I listen to, that is about like just being positive, a positive mindset, which I feel like for me was the most important thing out of all my recovery.

00;41;05;10 - 00;41;26;05
Speaker 2
But it is more about just rather than trying to speak something into existence or trying to create something in, you know, from nothing into something. It's just live like you already have the thing you want. And it's amazing how when you do show up, as I'm, you know, I'm perfectly healthy or I'm, the world's best podcast or whatever, I don't do that.

00;41;26;05 - 00;41;46;27
Speaker 2
I should probably start doing that. But like, if you do show of that, show up like that, it's amazing how this energy and these opportunities and all these things kind of just come your way, right? And you can't act like, well, I really hope I get this. And it's that eagerness that sometimes I think pushes people away and it doesn't attract thing.

00;41;46;27 - 00;41;58;07
Speaker 2
But if you're like, I am this, I am living like this. And then just kind of allows that energy, that that circumstance to fall in your lap. And I love that you're kind of tapping into that.

00;41;58;13 - 00;42;20;27
Speaker 1
100%. That's exactly. It's like I have to live like I'm already healthy by making all of these choices and decisions and also like calming the nervous system because in a state of panic of, oh my gosh, I have stage three cancer and I'm dying and I'm so young and like, whatever going down that spirals not going to help your body recover or help your immune system because you're on fight or flight.

00;42;20;29 - 00;42;40;10
Speaker 1
And how is your body supposed to heal when it is like trying to run away from something. And so he ground me in, kind of create a reality in which getting worse wasn't even an option, and living in that in parts, I was like, what if this doesn't, you know, in the beginning I'm like, what if this doesn't work?

00;42;40;10 - 00;43;04;12
Speaker 1
Like, what if all the things I'm trying don't work? Like, what do I do? And he was like, well, worst case, you die a lot happier. And I was like, you know what? That's actually so true. Why? Why waste my last year of life just thinking about it not going well. I'd rather do that and still do everything in my power to heal, but have a good mindset around it.

00;43;04;12 - 00;43;28;19
Speaker 1
And I'm going to truly, like, embrace this, embrace this time. And that was huge because it it I think the worst part, and one of the worst parts after diagnosis, is not knowing how to feel or think or what to do and the chaos around the next step. And that really grounded me in like okay these are I'm going to try all of these things.

00;43;28;22 - 00;43;49;23
Speaker 1
And even if I don't do them all perfect, it's okay because I'm trying. And as long as I do these things and as long as I try my hardest to really just focus on myself and healing and thinking positively and feeling positively, then it's going to work out and and that just just brought in a whole slew of, of things.

00;43;49;23 - 00;44;09;10
Speaker 1
And like as you said, you attract the right things. And I attracted during that time, like eMDR to release a lot of this suppressed emotion that I've been suppressing all my life and get that out. And after that, to with eMDR, you're like using somatic therapy to release things you've been holding on to, whether that's right.

00;44;09;10 - 00;44;26;03
Speaker 2
It's like the trauma, micro traumas, even, that get stuck in your body. And we don't naturally focus on trying to work those things out. They get stuck there and then they're not out. And we're also not taught how to move them out. Right. And nobody and not a lot of people, I should say, take the time to actually figure that out and to move it out.

00;44;26;03 - 00;44;34;28
Speaker 2
But you had this, in some ways, amazing opportunity to practice being the person you want and then to work on these things that might have been stuck there for decades.

00;44;35;00 - 00;44;54;18
Speaker 1
Yes. And they were like, I would I things would come up that I just didn't even remember or recall. And it was so crazy. And to going from a life of go, go, go where I don't even like remember the day because it was so busy, packed from like 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. every night. It was all of a sudden, okay, I'm not working.

00;44;54;20 - 00;45;16;20
Speaker 1
I'm not doing anything. I'm living alone for like several months at a time, and I would just sit outside and feel everything that I hadn't been feeling for so long. And it was very much like a full, like you're stillness now. You have to face all the things that you've been running from.

00;45;16;21 - 00;45;18;07
Speaker 2
It hits you just like a train.

00;45;18;10 - 00;45;39;12
Speaker 1
Yes. And before that I was not as I to like, show emotion that much or like cry ever. And then once I opened that realm, it was like my emotions shot up. I cried three times a day every day for like a year and a half and almost two years. And then after that whole like, you know, suppression release.

00;45;39;16 - 00;45;47;19
Speaker 1
And then now I'm like, back to normal and balanced and then I but I knew during that like crazy time that it was going to be balanced emotionally.

00;45;47;21 - 00;46;08;03
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. I give you so much props because I, I went through that too. And it's, it's very hard. Like, you know, I can only speak from it from like my perspective, but I feel like and also from like a, I guess a male or a more male perspective. But it's like, you know, I wasn't taught to, like, show emotions.

00;46;08;03 - 00;46;31;23
Speaker 2
I wasn't taught to, like, be able to cry. So I did it. I just didn't cry for years. Like, it just wasn't something that I thought I was allowed to do. It wasn't something that I thought I was capable of doing. I didn't think, yeah, it was something I should do, right? And yes, coming back from the hospital is like all this loss that I was feeling like the uncertainty, the fear, the loss, like it.

00;46;31;26 - 00;46;51;08
Speaker 2
Yeah. It hit me like a ton of bricks to. And as somebody who never cried, like, also in any movie I would watch would make me cry. Like we were watching some Pixar movie because I was out of the hospital during Covid and it would just, like, choke me up, I think, even now. But, but it feels nicer.

00;46;51;09 - 00;46;53;07
Speaker 2
It feels lighter, it feels more balanced.

00;46;53;07 - 00;46;54;05
Speaker 1
It's real.

00;46;54;07 - 00;46;57;28
Speaker 2
Yeah. And it just makes you feel in some ways more alive, too.

00;46;58;01 - 00;47;11;20
Speaker 1
Absolutely. And I'm curious who you're open to. Kind of like what part of your personality has come out since after the big change you went through all that maybe was there the whole time, but now just yeah, out in the open.

00;47;11;20 - 00;47;39;15
Speaker 2
Probably part of my personality, my wife and friends would probably want me to be back undercover, but I think, yeah, I think I'm more willing to speak up if I don't like something or if I don't think something is right. That's not something I would do. And I don't know if it's because I grew up, you know, being half Asian, but also like growing up in a Asian predominant society, it's like you're very, like, kind of meek and shy and humble and all those things.

00;47;39;17 - 00;48;01;19
Speaker 2
And so, speaking up was never something that I thought I wanted to do or felt like I needed to do. I'm like, that's for other people who are, like, audacious and big personality. And, but yeah, again, I think it was this combination of things for me where I couldn't speak. And then I feel like I should have said things and, and just kind of being a little bit more open.

00;48;01;21 - 00;48;26;26
Speaker 2
Everything I'm doing now with this podcast, I would have never done before, Max. And there's no way I would have ever talked about mental health or depression or anxiety, or different modalities of healing or even manifesting in some ways, who you want to be. This stuff was in there. I was always interested about it, but I would have never publicly said anything to people because I would have been too ashamed.

00;48;26;29 - 00;48;28;27
Speaker 1
And you found your voice?

00;48;29;00 - 00;48;53;15
Speaker 2
Well, I think I was still finding it, but I think. Yeah, more. So how do you how does this then carry you through where you are today? Because you're so open to trying different things. And do you have anything in this process that you can, you can put your finger on 100% like that's what helped. Or is it or does it still feel like it's a combination of everything you've done?

00;48;53;18 - 00;48;56;03
Speaker 2


00;48;56;05 - 00;49;20;18
Speaker 1
Well there's this one instance of, of going to a hypnotherapist and just to try to go through the emotional components of it and my biggest take away from that was she was like if you no matter what treatment you choose, if you don't think someone's something's going to work, it's not going to work. And yeah, I believe that because whether that's on placebo is a real thing.

00;49;20;24 - 00;49;22;05
Speaker 2
It is. Yeah, yeah.

00;49;22;05 - 00;49;23;04
Speaker 1
100%. I don't know.

00;49;23;04 - 00;49;36;11
Speaker 2
If you listen to Hidden Brain, but they do an amazing episode about placebo. And it's like, even if people know the drug is fake, but you believe in the placebo effect, you still get better results. Yeah. Even if you know it's fake, it's just like, that's how powerful our mind is.

00;49;36;16 - 00;49;53;27
Speaker 1
100%. And so it's like, even if this medicine is, like supposed to work and you're like, you know, resisting it, then maybe subconsciously you're not going to take it as on time or right, or in your body, it's going to reject it. All these things. And so the believing in what I was doing was going to work is huge.

00;49;53;27 - 00;50;17;03
Speaker 1
And then like to the following my intuition of where like owning my own healing is like number one. Like not just going with whatever's easiest or what people are telling me. Like, truly, everyone aside, what do I want to do? Where do I want? How do I want this to look like? Having that ownership is what helped me heal.

00;50;17;09 - 00;50;39;20
Speaker 1
And like one thing, I guess that would work is, I mean, I do think it's trying everything I do like it's I, it's really hard for me to pinpoint and it's also really hard to be like, hey guys, try everything. I, I and I don't see that ever. I'm like, just look into everything and see what you think's gonna, right have a effect.

00;50;39;27 - 00;51;01;20
Speaker 2
Yeah, I love that. I think to me that speaks farther or I guess it speaks in this powerful way beyond even healing to like, I, I feel like because of that experience that you went through, but also like, I feel like I had some of that my own life. They're like, hey, we can do this surgery for you, or this is or this is one option we can do or whatever.

00;51;01;23 - 00;51;24;23
Speaker 2
I was just kind of open to it to see if it could make my life better. And I think it's now, for me, translated in places outside of my life, whether it's like how I look at life or how I look at situations or, you know, because we get so funneled into how we're taught to think, and then we reinforce how we think by our brain, and it finds evidence for this is this has got to be right.

00;51;24;25 - 00;51;36;24
Speaker 2
And you're like, this is the only way. But is it? You know, it's just because it's worked for you in the past. Is it the only way? And I think that that thought process for me is kind of expanded even beyond just healing and health.

00;51;36;26 - 00;51;58;19
Speaker 1
1,000% and questioning, like you said, like you say, like everything in life. Is this what I wanted? Is this where I go? Is this who I am? Everything just you have that pause in this. You like you're going about life. Something huge happens to you, like it did for you, and you get a chance to reassess everything, especially because what you went through was during Covid where everyone was reassessing everything anyway.

00;51;58;23 - 00;52;03;09
Speaker 1
You got that extra layer of reassessment through what happened.

00;52;03;12 - 00;52;04;07
Speaker 2
Totally.

00;52;04;08 - 00;52;04;27
Speaker 1
In your life.

00;52;05;00 - 00;52;22;13
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah. For me. And it also allowed me to kind of see how everybody else was internalizing their struggles, or I guess even externalizing it, like putting it out in the world, how they were talking about the things that were hard and, and, you know, me trying to heal up from, like, all these burdens and everything was like, oh, wow.

00;52;22;13 - 00;52;43;26
Speaker 2
They're kind of feeling like how I'm feeling. Even though, like physically on the outside, everybody can see how messed up I am. But, yeah, it was this amazing lesson in is there other things out there? You know, my whole perspective changed. It sounds like your perspective, even though you were open to it, I guess. What did change for you in this process?

00;52;43;26 - 00;52;49;06
Speaker 2
Because you seem like a pretty open person before the diagnosis. And then going through treatment.

00;52;49;08 - 00;52;51;17
Speaker 1
Like what in my what about change.

00;52;51;17 - 00;52;54;24
Speaker 2
Like personality wise like thought process.

00;52;54;24 - 00;53;26;04
Speaker 1
Dude every so much I before I was definitely like the do everything and be a people pleaser and like never rest like rest wasn't even my vocabulary in a way. And and not as like I lost that trust with myself and and after now like nowadays, I, I have that relationship with myself because I had to intentionally rest for so long it to heal.

00;53;26;04 - 00;53;49;07
Speaker 1
And now it's like, I'll never lose that. So that's, that's carving out time. Like it's your most important meeting to just chill and just like restore. And now it's very like saying no is really easy for me. Before it was like, I can't say no because then I'm going to disappoint people or I'm going to fail. And I was just like, if I.

00;53;49;07 - 00;53;50;21
Speaker 2
Never get this opportunity again.

00;53;50;27 - 00;54;20;14
Speaker 1
100% and like, no, it's like I did, honestly, I'm just have to be alive. So everything else is a bonus. And and it's I mean, I had that God seed before, but it's just like a different like I'm grateful just to exist versus get to do everything that I want all the time and, and enjoy being here. And I think the I being in touch with my emotions is also like such a big thing for me now.

00;54;20;14 - 00;54;30;19
Speaker 1
And, and like quality over quantity with just like I had 9 million friends before and now people that I see on a weekly basis has gone down to like a handful because it's.

00;54;30;19 - 00;54;31;02
Speaker 2
Like, yeah.

00;54;31;05 - 00;54;51;07
Speaker 1
Who? What's exhausting to me, what causes me stress. Like, I honestly, I can't have that much stress or I get sick and like, I just this, this reaction. I'm so in tune now to what my triggers are like. Just I'm so sensitive and I, I didn't used to be sensitive. I would brush off everything, but I really wasn't brushing it off.

00;54;51;07 - 00;54;52;00
Speaker 1
And also I was.

00;54;52;01 - 00;54;53;03
Speaker 2
You're storing it, I was.

00;54;53;03 - 00;55;00;04
Speaker 1
Storing it. And then also I was like 1,000% extrovert. And now I'm like a 20% extrovert because that's.

00;55;00;05 - 00;55;17;14
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's so funny. You mentioned that. Yeah. Everybody my whole life would have said I was an extrovert, but I think, I guess there's like a new term now, like I am Beaver or something where you're not an extrovert, you're not introvert. But I, I feel that because also, you know, you give so much and you're around so many people and you have to give, right?

00;55;17;17 - 00;55;40;10
Speaker 2
You have to or you're just receiving what they're giving to you. And again, that has to go somewhere. You can't just store that. So yes, I so agree with you. When you go through something, at least as an extrovert, you need that time to kind of process it, process how you feel about it, process that energy. Because I think, you know, all interactions, all words like there's this energy that's there.

00;55;40;10 - 00;55;45;00
Speaker 2
And whether you realize it or not, it can weigh on you. So yeah, yeah, that's a funny similarity I think.

00;55;45;00 - 00;56;12;09
Speaker 1
And hot take a little bit. But I feel like extroverts are running from something like genuinely because they're distracting themselves with being around people all the time, where they don't have a chance to feel what they're actually going through and they're experiencing their inner world. That maybe not as joyful as this all external time. Yeah, and maybe I'm projecting, but I feel like I've met a lot of people like that as well where like, they don't want to feel their own experience.

00;56;12;11 - 00;56;33;19
Speaker 2
Yeah, true. I think it's a side effect of being an extrovert. I don't know if it's necessarily everybody who is running from something, but I do see that a lot with people who are extroverted. But, I also I think there's like a negative side effect of being too much of an introvert. Right? Like, you don't necessarily like open yourself up to amazing opportunities or amazing relationships.

00;56;33;21 - 00;56;52;15
Speaker 2
So I think there that's when you go too far on the end of the spectrum. And, yeah. But I think it's a it's a good thing to call out. I got to agree with you there. This is this is amazing. I think you've reminded me so much of the lessons I learned through my experience. And something you went through is just.

00;56;52;18 - 00;57;10;00
Speaker 2
I don't know how you did it. And people say that to me all the time, but I really feel that about you. And I'm just because of how bright you are, because of how light you handle this, and just the amazing things that you've overcome, it's just really incredible. So I think that brings me to where are you at now?

00;57;10;06 - 00;57;13;25
Speaker 2
And yeah. What's what's going on with you currently?

00;57;13;27 - 00;57;35;16
Speaker 1
Thank you for those very kind, kind words. Very nice. So currently, because it was like, you know, learning to have that connection with myself that trust in myself, all these things. It's like I got to tap into my true desire. Right? And what I actually want if no one else is involved. And that was like documentary producing.

00;57;35;16 - 00;58;04;06
Speaker 1
It was huge. As soon as I was having that fatigue fade away a little bit and felt like I could get back to doing and contributing and stuff, it was like, I want to do documentary work, especially because at a pivotal part of my my journey of figuring out what I wanted to do, I watched two different documentaries that completely changed the trajectory of my journey and like how I thought about healing and how I thought about health and cancer and all of these things.

00;58;04;06 - 00;58;04;25
Speaker 1
And so do you.

00;58;04;25 - 00;58;06;18
Speaker 2
Remember what those documentaries were?

00;58;06;18 - 00;58;34;02
Speaker 1
Yeah, there was, so heal was one of them. And it really the interviewed like the woman who wrote Radical Remission. So she interviewed like hundreds of people who radically went into remission from cancer and talked about all of the similarities, but among them and what got them to heal. And that was huge. And also the kind of like the science behind healing and and how it's such a personal journey, all of those things.

00;58;34;02 - 00;58;47;14
Speaker 1
And then the other documentary was The Source within you. And so that was the documentary on the UCSD Angeles funded collaboration that showed all this in impossible, like was it.

00;58;47;16 - 00;58;48;05
Speaker 2
Was healing.

00;58;48;05 - 00;59;22;01
Speaker 1
Miraculous healing, all these things that really let me believe that there was another route to go. So those were the two, but there was that many more. But I feel like those two spoke to me the most and until after that I met. I got connected to Matt and Leah, who we have shared connections with. Yeah. And they took a chance on me, even though I had zero producing experience, who trained me and to allow me to do the thing that I was that I only had interest in.

00;59;22;03 - 00;59;50;23
Speaker 1
Yeah, and I am doing that now. So I'm so grateful to be in the documentary world and have a cancer podcast as well, where I just kind of go through what I wish I knew as soon as I got diagnosed, whether that's like how to tell people you have cancer or how to pay for it, and how to rely on community and all of these things while looking at the different treatment modalities that to complement, conventional, conventional care or being alternative, like just expanding that view.

00;59;50;25 - 00;59;56;26
Speaker 1
And now it's just like living a slower or more in-tune life.

00;59;56;29 - 01;00;14;06
Speaker 2
Yeah, I love it, I love it. Yeah. It's it's tough because you went through this really hard thing, but now I, I think that there's some positives that have come out of it for you. And you're stronger in a lot of ways. You're maybe happier in some ways. You're definitely more in tune with what your soul is searching for.

01;00;14;06 - 01;00;17;28
Speaker 2
I think probably before and you're doing it. This is that's a great thank.

01;00;17;28 - 01;00;31;21
Speaker 1
You for the. Yes, I genuinely I know that I'm like the happiest and healthiest I've ever been. And I didn't think it would take a cancer diagnosis to get there. But at least I'm here. I made it.

01;00;31;27 - 01;00;53;23
Speaker 2
You definitely did. Yeah. And I think you're giving back to the world, too. And in this powerful way, using your story. It's it's amazing. And I think this is what this podcast is all about, which I truly appreciate. So I ask everybody two questions as we end this. Yeah. Can I fire them now? Yeah. You've been able to handle everything else so far and given so much more than my questions have even asked.

01;00;53;23 - 01;00;59;25
Speaker 2
So thank you for that. But the first question is, what is currently giving you the most amount of peace?

01;00;59;28 - 01;01;05;14
Speaker 1
Knowing that I'm living in alignment, I it like a short answer to yeah.

01;01;05;14 - 01;01;06;26
Speaker 2
It's it's whatever I had to.

01;01;07;01 - 01;01;08;26
Speaker 1
Do. Yeah that's I feel good I'm going like.

01;01;08;26 - 01;01;10;29
Speaker 2
That in I love it I can I ask a follow up. Yeah.

01;01;11;01 - 01;01;11;14
Speaker 1
Yeah.

01;01;11;17 - 01;01;17;00
Speaker 2
What is making you feel like you're in alignment? Like, how do you know you're in alignment?

01;01;17;02 - 01;01;48;18
Speaker 1
I feel like before I would have these, these sensations of being like, oh, this I should be doing this or like, you know, this is this is just the right thing or whatever, very logically and very like for other people sort of thing. And now it's like, I know exactly what I want, and I'm willing to pivot because before it was like even starting my last company, I had so much fear around doing that.

01;01;48;18 - 01;02;03;29
Speaker 1
Like I was so terrified of not running my company anymore and letting down my co-founder, letting down everyone within the company and our our owners and all these things that I was like, oh, I can't leave ever. Like, whatever.

01;02;04;06 - 01;02;04;26
Speaker 2
I'm stuck.

01;02;04;26 - 01;02;25;24
Speaker 1
Here. I'm so here. And now it's like, even if it's really hard, I have to suck it up and do the hard thing because I know it's going to amount to the right path. And so it's like moving past that fear and that uncomfortability to pursue what that inner voice is telling you.

01;02;25;25 - 01;02;27;01
Speaker 2
Yeah. That inner calling.

01;02;27;03 - 01;02;38;20
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so I trust myself to listen to that. Whereas before I'd be like, yeah, whatever the loudest voice is saying, that's what I'll do. And it's really like I have that connection with myself now.

01;02;38;23 - 01;03;05;24
Speaker 2
Yeah. I feel like when you go through a moment of like actual survival, you stop. Like the outside world decisions don't feel like survival anymore. And you're like, listen, letting some people down or letting or not being able to do this or whatever is not as bad as me trying to like stuff down this thing that I'm lucky to have again, which is like being connected to my purpose and being driven by something, you know, more powerful than I am.

01;03;05;24 - 01;03;10;11
Speaker 2
Like, that's that's so special. So yeah, I love that you're keen in on that.

01;03;10;13 - 01;03;11;06
Speaker 1
Thank you.

01;03;11;06 - 01;03;18;04
Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay. So last question is what's one piece of advice you'd give to somebody going through their hardest moment right now.

01;03;18;06 - 01;03;24;23
Speaker 1
Thinking drum roll for someone else's answer right now? Okay. So the hard advice for hard is moment.

01;03;24;26 - 01;03;32;26
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like somebody who just found out they you know they got the diagnosis that you got. And you know, what's one thing you would tell them?

01;03;32;28 - 01;03;56;25
Speaker 1
You're the only person that can that can make these decisions honestly. Like that's what I would tell them. Like it's not about anyone else in order to save your own life, it has to be coming from you. You're the only person who are. And I don't want this to sound lonely or any or isolating, but it's it's more empowering.

01;03;56;27 - 01;04;26;22
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. It's like, don't wait to feel empowered. It don't wait for something bad to happen to you, to feel empowered. It's like I feel that empowerment now in and during this like hardest moment to be like, you know what, maybe all of these things that have happened to me throughout my life was preparing me for this moment, and I can now step into, without any reservation, what I want this to look like in taking that ownership, taking that accountability and taking that that we have.

01;04;26;22 - 01;05;01;07
Speaker 1
So much power and we have so much potential. And it's time, like it's the hardest moments right now. It's time to lock in and choose yourself and and really go in in order to change your external circumstances. Like I it's just so it's so individual and connecting yourself is like the number one ticket to anywhere for sure. So taking ownership and and realizing that that it's not it doesn't.

01;05;01;13 - 01;05;12;04
Speaker 1
I guess it doesn't really help that much to be to only think of the worst case scenario. Yeah. Like you got it. You got to believe in envision the worst case scenario and live that in.

01;05;12;07 - 01;05;17;29
Speaker 2
Yes, I love that. I love this saying that says if you can overthink the worst, why don't you try overthinking the best?

01;05;18;05 - 01;05;20;17
Speaker 1
Yes. And it's harder for sure. Oh it's it's.

01;05;20;17 - 01;05;44;07
Speaker 2
Yeah, we're we're designed or at least I think we're our brains are designed to find the danger, to find the negative, to find the hard thing. It's a lot harder to find the happy, the positive, the growth. And you have it in spades. You've done it. You've lived it. Yes. I really appreciate that. I think it's both beautiful answers, taking ownership of your situation, doing the hard work to confront, not to run away from your emotions or the bad feelings.

01;05;44;09 - 01;05;48;27
Speaker 2
And yes, try to lock in on what's truly what truly matters to you.

01;05;48;27 - 01;06;19;20
Speaker 1
Yes, in taking a deep breath and realizing that you have more time than you think, like not to rush into something, but because you feel like you're on a timeline. Like even just taking a couple days or a couple weeks to figure out what you want to do is totally okay, no matter how pressing everything feels. Because when you're, like, diagnosed with something, it's like, make a decision right now or you're going to die and more like, dude, just just take it beat, take a beat so that you're you are making the right decision.

01;06;19;21 - 01;06;23;25
Speaker 1
Right? So like that time is so crucial.

01;06;23;27 - 01;06;42;00
Speaker 2
Yeah I couldn't agree more I really feel that. All right. Well that was such a wonderful answer. You've been full of just wonderful insight and just you're such an incredible person. I love how you've just kind of transformed everything you've gone through into something that's like, directed you on this better path. Where can people find you? Where can they support you?

01;06;42;02 - 01;07;10;09
Speaker 1
Thank you. I, I genuinely like, enjoy talking to you so much. I feel like I'm like, it's already over. That's flew by in such a good way. But Where They Can Find Me is on for the podcast. It's what I Wish I knew cancer podcast. And then for the documentary company of Sandbox Studios. And, people can just reach out, email me too, if they're in in a tough situation or want community and all of that stuff.

01;07;10;09 - 01;07;18;05
Speaker 2
So I love it. Well, thank you so much for your time. Yeah. I can't give you a hug. Yes. Let's let's see this. That was so amazing.

01;07;18;08 - 01;07;19;06
Speaker 1
All right. Thank you.

01;07;19;11 - 01;07;45;04
Speaker 2
So much. Yeah. If this episode hit home for you, like, share and subscribe and drop your biggest takeaway in the comments. I love to hear what you thought about my story and what it meant to you, and make sure to follow McKenna on social media and check out her podcast, what I wish I Knew. She's doing incredible work over there, so take care of yourself if you can't someone else and keep exploring the bright side to life's darkest moments.

01;07;45;06 - 01;07;51;20
Speaker 2
Aloha.

01;07;51;22 - 01;07;52;02
Speaker 2