Is Southwest Still Worth It? Companion Pass & Rapid Rewards Breakdown

Southwest has long been a favorite airline for budget-minded travelers — but with recent changes to fares, seating, and baggage rules, many people are wondering: Is it still worth it?

In this episode, Genni sits down with Max Craig, a long-time Southwest expert who’s held the Companion Pass for 18 years straight, to break down what’s changed, what hasn’t, and how everyday travelers can still get outsized value from the Rapid Rewards program — without overcomplicating things.

You’ll learn how the Companion Pass really works, who it’s best for (and who should skip it), and smart strategies for earning and keeping it year after year.

In this episode, we cover:

• What the Southwest Companion Pass is — and why it’s still one of the best deals in domestic travel
• The recent Southwest changes (basic fares, assigned seating, baggage rules) and what actually matters
• Who Southwest works best for — and when it doesn’t make sense
• How Companion Pass works on both cash and points bookings
• Smart ways to earn the Companion Pass using credit card sign-up bonuses
• Why starting in January is not “too late” — and may actually be better
• The difference between chasing elevated bonuses vs. going at your own pace
• Year-round strategies to maintain the Companion Pass without constant card churning

Timestamps:

• 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
• 00:57 Max Craig's Journey into Points and Miles
• 02:16 Understanding the Southwest Companion Pass
• 04:23 Southwest's Domestic and International Reach
• 06:45 Recent Changes to Southwest's Fare Types and Policies
• 18:38 Strategies for Earning and Maximizing the Companion Pass
• 21:13 Timing and Tips for Achieving the Companion Pass
• 26:27 Temporary Promotions and Final Thoughts
• 29:20 Maximizing the Two Card Method
• 30:02 Maintaining the Companion Pass
• 30:24 Spoiling Your P2
• 32:11 Churning Southwest Cards
• 33:40 Common Mistakes and Misconceptions
• 40:24 Real World Examples of Companion Pass Benefits
• 43:40 Southwest's New Seating Policy
• 46:58 Rapid Fire Questions
• 49:55 Where to Find Max Craig
• 51:05 Conclusion and Farewell

Where to Find Max Craig

You can connect with Max primarily on Facebook:

• Facebook account: Max Craig
• Facebook groups: Optimize Southwest and Optimized Transferrable Points
• Website: https://pointstothemax.com/

Transcript

Genni: hey friends. Welcome back to the Lazy Budget Travel Tips podcast. I'm Genni Franklin, and today I'm joined by Max Craig, a Southwest expert who has a talent for breaking down rapid reward strategy in a way that make sense. In this episode, we're getting into the Heart of the Southwest program.

What's changed recently, what actually matters for everyday travelers, and how to make the most of your points without overthinking it. You're gonna learn the smartest way to approach the companion pass, simple year-round earning strategies that anyone can do, and how to stretch rapid rewards for maximum value.

If you've ever wondered whether Southwest is worth prioritizing or you want an easier way to save money on flights while keeping your travel flexible, this episode is for you. Hey, max, thanks for being on the podcast.

Max Craig: for having me. It's a pleasure.

Genni: So why don't we get started with you [00:01:00] telling us about how you got into Points of Miles and your love for Southwest.

Max Craig: So it's been quite a long journey. Coming outta college 25 plus years ago I had a travel job, is that I traveled a lot for work. And that was back in the day before there really was cards, like transferable point cards. So you got the, a few airline cards, you got a few hotel cards, and you kind of worked each program how it made sense.

my journey has been kind of, I would say throughout the evolution of the transferable point game, and I kept up on the game as it evolved and tried to be, I would say, in the leading edge by not only chasing the right cards at the right time, but also doing it by flying in seats and staying in hotels.

Genni: So What is about Southwest that makes you love it so much?

Max Craig: I would say the flexibility. So I've lived in kind of two major Southwest hubs pretty much my whole working career, but really my whole life is that it basically gives you not only the [00:02:00] flexibility because of companion pass but I would say also the convenience is that they do a lot of the routesthat I enjoy and can work. And actually when I took a relocation like eight years ago for work, being near a southwest hub was part of my thought process of where to go.

Genni: so explain what is the companion pass.

Max Craig: Absolutely. So it is really a buy one get one type of arrangement that you can basically fly on for the duration of the pass. So a lot of companion pass things with other airlines. It's a one time use or it's a multiple time use, but you have to do other things to get a second and a third.

For Southwest, if you have it for say, a year, that is an unlimited pass. So other than basically the taxes and fees. You get to take a plus one on anything, whether it is a pointed fare or on a cash fare. so it's super flexible. and you also can change your designee up to three [00:03:00] times per calendar year, so you don't always have to take the same person.

And one example that I like to use is that my P two is my typical companion, but she is not an Alpine skier. So once a year I usually take a friend out to Colorado or some other ski destination and I'll switch the companion to that friend, and then when I come back, I switch it back to her.

So it gives you that flexibility that you don't even always have to travel with the same person.

Genni: And it's nice that it works for cash and points. Like you could literally be taking BOGO flights just with points and only pay a few dollars for the whole year.

Max Craig: absolutely right. So on a domestic fare it's only $5 and 60 cents, which is basically the TSA fee for somebody. So 1120 round trip. And then if you do go international those landing fees and other charges to go international are basically on you. But other than that, yeah, it's buy one, get one very cheap, very [00:04:00] extensible.

And especially if you do what we're gonna talk about in a little bit here of doing credit card signup bonuses, often you earn enough in the signup bonus that you can probably take a few trips a yearjust on that and not have an outlay of cash, but still get that buy one, get one opportunity.

Genni: I have flown Southwest only a few times. I'm a free agent. I don't really have like a favorite airline or anything anyways. But for Southwest, it's mostly domestic in the US right? I mean, just so that people know before they try to get the companion pass or anything.

Max Craig: it's pretty much US centric. they obviously have Hawaii flights and they're adding Alaska flights coming this next summer. So really all of the US and then plus what I would call the beach vacations. So they do have Mexico, they do have Jamaica. They do have some options in the beach locations right now to go to Europe and Asia.

They do have some partnerships. But the reality is they don't have their own planes that go either direction quite yet, [00:05:00] although they've hinted at that opportunity coming eventually.

Genni: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that'll happen. I know when people ask me about the companion pass, I'm like, I don't know. I've never earned it before. And not because I don't think it's a good idea, it's because it just doesn't work out for us. you gotta think about where you wanna go and there's really no point in earning the companion pass if Southwest doesn't fly to the places you wanna travel to.

I know what's super cool, you know, if you're on Instagram and people are always talking about companion pass season and how cool having the companion pass. But I've had people say to me, oh, well I really wanna get the companion pass. And I'm like, well, where did you wanna travel? Europe. Okay, then why are you trying to get the companion pass?

Max Craig: No. so then it's a repositioning game, right? So it can still

Genni: Yeah.

Max Craig: but if you're only going to Europe once a year, to me that might be way more effort than it's worth to get one free repositioning flight. So yeah, when it doesn't align with your goals, then obviously that's not a good approach.

But if you're in a [00:06:00] Southwest location that has some opportunities to get places that you go, plus you have the option to reposition, it can stack upfor a lot of folks.

Genni: okay, One of the reasons why people, including myself have really loved Southwest is how generous they are as far as like they would have two free check bags.

They're really flexible with cancellations, changes their credits or their points never expired. I think like they had vouchers that never expired. It was, and there also just like the vibe of when you go on a Southwest flight. I mean, I know a lot of people didn't like that there was no assigned seating, but it was always fun going on a Southwest flight, I felt like.

So why don't you give us a little bit more of a background on how Southwest was before and how it is.

Max Craig: Sure. So lots of changes this year, right? And they unfortunately announced [00:07:00] them as they went instead of kind of doing it all at once. So it got a little frustrating. So I'll walk through some of the basics of what happened, is that they did introduce a new fare type called the basic fare. And it's very similar to what pretty much every other domestic airline did a decade ago.

 a very, very bare bones fare. in the Southwest case it only earns two x some of the other domestic competitors actually on a pure basic fare, you don't earn any points at all. so those fares are the cheap ones. And they are what I would call the quote unquote no frills type of fare.

so that's one thing that changed The other thing was that the fare multipliers kind of changed around some for the worst, which probably isn't a shocker and some for better. So at the high end, what used to be called Business Select is now called Choice Extra, that actually went up to 14 x.

So that's actually a win for those that travel like last minute and things like that and pay those higher fare types. But for, the budget conscious flyers, those lower cheaper ones actually don't [00:08:00] earn a lot of points, but they are cheaper. So there's kind of a balancing game there to play. One thing that you mentioned is about not having assigned seats and personally, and it's partially because I have status with them and have for years and years. I was one of the first people on the plane, so I didn't mind that it was kind of boarding in groups only. But going forward, starting in late January, it is gonna be assigned seating you're gonna be able to pick your seat ahead of time.

And that's gonna depend not only on your status, but which credit card you have, which fare type you buy. There's a fair amount of, I'll call it strategizing over what you want, but if you are willing to wait and you don't have to be next to your, P two, um, is that you can kind of take your chances and book those.

cheap fares and you'll pick a seat assignment at 48 hours similar to how you get a boarding position today at 24 hours. So there's gonna be, I would say, some good and bad to that. and then bag fees. This is one that's not so [00:09:00] fun because it was basically two bags for everybody. Didn't matter which fare type, didn't matter which status you had.

Everybody got two. Now it is status based that a-list preferred still gets two. But then a-list and some of the top tier credit card holders get one checked bag included. And the good thing about that is that it's for up to eight people on your reservation companion. So that one card fee, it basically is giving you unlimited bags. doesn't matter how many trips you take, if you take 10 trips, you would get to take eight people 10 times. Like it would, it literally, if you travel more than once a year with more than one person, it's basically a no brainer to not only get but keep a Southwest card in your arsenal because that's your way out of bag fees.

So one example that I promote on my page is that if you have one check bag per person, plus one roller board, plus a personal item, and you have say, three people, [00:10:00] right? you're easily getting value out of that credit card on that trip alone, and you're still getting a fare amount of baggage.

And one, I would say super secret loophole thing that's going on right now is that right now companions are getting two. All the time, even if the primary's only eligible for one, and it seems like it's a mistake, but Southwest, apparently, it's a system limitation, is that they book a companion as like a non-revenue fare. So when like an employee's family is flying, they're considered non-revenue if the employees themselves are flying, it's non-revenue. some other categories also are non-revenue that they put that all in the same bucket and they all have an entitlement to two bags. So that's lasted since May so far.

So if you are, say traveling is a group of two and you have three check bags, check one to the primary traveler and check two to the companion. As of the recording of this, that still is working.

Genni: [00:11:00] Well, I think it goes to show that the fact that Southwest has not upgraded their systems since the 1980s is a win for us again.

Max Craig: win. It is an accidental win for us. And people often say that makes no sense that it should be the status people getting lesser. But it's like, no, sometimes we just gotta take the win where we can find 'em. And it's one case where that system limitation still hasn't quote unquote, the glitch.

Genni: do you think that these changes are making things harder for people if they do wanna earn companion pass?

Max Craig: so. Right. So the companion pass is one thing that they didn't mess with. Right. So the

Genni: Yeah.

Max Craig: is still 135,000 qualifying points in a calendar year. That has been the same for about the same five years or so. Before it was 125,000 and when they moved it from 1 25 to 1 35, they actually gave all card holders a companion pass boost of [00:12:00] 10,000 every January.

So effectively, as long as you have a card still, the metric is 125,000 basically attained points in a calendar year. So as far as earning the companion pass, that hasn't changed at all. I think the other thingsthat we didn't mention earlier is the flight credit expiration. That's the other kind

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Max Craig: is, and now that basic fare is, has a six month expiration and that's from booking. And then the other fare types are 12 months if they're not a refundable fare. And some of those top farees are refundable is that that six month from booking can really. I'll call it jam people up because their schedule goes out usually seven to nine months at a time. So if you're booking early on in that schedule release and you don't cancel and say a month before you fly, there's no fare credit to get back because the six month has already expired.

So I'm really discouraging most cases the basic fare on [00:13:00] cash for that reason. Now on points, worry about it. Points are always refundable back to the account they came from. So when you are booking far in advance, you're doing on points, there's really almost no difference there. but you have to be more diligent about keeping track of your flight credits when you have cash that you are basically allocating to those flights.

Genni: Yeah, and I heard that there was like a trick that was working. Now I forget about it. 

Max Craig: so that's another, I will call it. Accidental loophole, right? the rule for refundability is that it goes back to how you paid for it. So if you buy a refundable fare it's supposed to be refunded back to the card or voucherthat you use to pay for it. one loophole we found accidentally using data points is that if you have a couple of, cash flight credits sitting out there and you get to use three forms of payment to pay for your flight, is that [00:14:00] if you use for your third one, if you use a gift card. That and by refundable fare, that will basically make the refund when you cancel that flight, have no expiration date on it, 

they can't refund it back to a card that's already been used. they don't have a refund date stamp on a gift card. They will not give you the cash back. But the gift that they gave us was that they don't put the expiration date stamp on. So right now you can take the expiration date stamp away from two flight credits by combining with a gift card. Again, it's a huge win. That door is open as of the time we've recorded this, right now hundreds of people have success with really extending their flight credits by using this trick.

Genni: the other thing was about like the, the 12 month expiration is choice fares come with a 12 month. So that gives you a lot more flexibility. And the huge thing that one change is that the choice fare comes with an [00:15:00] entitlement to same day confirm change.

Max Craig: So one thing that they changed was how same day standby and same day confirm change worked and now it is fare based. So that choice fare and the awesome part is same day confirm change is that you can go to the airport at your new flight time. So whether you go earlier or later, you get a guaranteed seat on that earlier or later flight. And whereas standby, you have to go earlier because you can never stand by for a later flight. So standby, you have to go early to be ready to go on the earlier flight. But if you don't get cleared. Then you're waiting for your original flight, same day, confirmed. As long as there's space on the flight, you get it.

And it's really first come, first served. So a status person actually can't bump you. If you were the first one to either call or do it online to get same day confirmed change. And as a person, that flies a fare amount. that I often book the last direct flight of the day and try to go earlier [00:16:00] if I can. And this is with that fare type that keeps that door open. Because if you are say on standby and you're on that early morning flight, there is nothing to go standby on. so you almost would need same day confirm change to go later. So that's one thing to keep in mind. Especially for those that may take a connection that's not as logical because the more efficient option was a lot more expensive, is that some people wanna play that.

I'll call it arbitrage game of I'll same day change it if I can. The choice fare is a great opportunity for that.

Genni: So what would you say for people who are maybe like thinking about Southwest or not really sure if it'll work for them, what's your take on what type of traveler would investing in the Southwest program work and companion pass, or either.

Max Craig: so I think there's really, [00:17:00] I'll call it a few different camps. So the first camp is somebody that goes. Domestically or to beach or Mountain vacations on a farely regular basis, they're gonna do at least say, three trips a year where they would get, say, three flights a year for free because of companion Pass.

so those people that like to go to, Disney or like to take a beach vacation, like to go skiing, it works a lot because Southwest has a lot of options out west to locations where you can ski. They have a lot of beach vacations like in Mexico and Jamaica and things like that. and so you have that flexibility.

 and the other advantage that I have, but obviously I travel for my career as well, is that I have a pretty decent domestic footprint, right? so not only for my work travel, but also for personal travel. We still have family up in the Chicago area. It's super simple for us to fly from Nashville to Chicago, obviously both. I know Southwest doesn't really use the hub name, but for lack of a better term, Chicago and Nashville are both hubs in their [00:18:00] program. Not only can we do it efficiently, but we can also do it pretty cheaply. So I think competitive price wisethat resonates I think with a lot of people.

But if you're not in a Southwest convenience zone and you're gonna have to take in inconvenient connections, then maybe it's not for you. So it's definitely not for everybody, but I think a lot of people can make it work, especially for family type travel where you're getting, or even can get, say both adults in the family, each have a companion pass where you can travel as a party of four for the price of two that's really hard to beat.

Genni: So now people have decided, okay, I like Southwest. I like this companion pass thing. What are some strategies to get them to earning the Companion Pass or to get them to maximize the Rapid Rewards Program year round?

Max Craig: Yeah, so I think the first thing is using signup bonuses to be able to get to your 135,000 qualifying points in a calendar year. I would say that we got some. [00:19:00] Pretty nice gifts. Signup bonus wise from Southwest this year there were elevated personal bonuses that were up in like the 85, 90,000 range.

So that's literally like 75% of the way there alone. Just with that. And actually they did a business card offer. There was 120,000 signup bonus. It required a fairly significant spend of 10 grand. You get three months to do that in that case. But to be able to do that. With the 10 grand of spend, that's 10,000 points minimum depending on your card multiples, but the baseline one is one x and then plus basically the 10,000 companion pass boost.

Really, it was one card signup bonus, and that person got a companion pass four. And this is the rule for the remainder of the current year plus the entire following year. So as of the time of this recording, if you get that signup bonus in Januaryyou basically have the pass through the following [00:20:00] December of the next year.

So let's call it 23 total months of having a companion pass for one card signup bonus. and for those the typical way that I talk about a lot on my page is to do the two card method, which is usually one personal card combined with one business card. You can get there, with those two cards in a way that you get the signup bonuses.

Again, try to time it as early in the year as possible, but you get. basically the same deal and for a little less spend, but it's a little more work because you're doing two cards. But that's another way to be able to have the pass for 23 months. I mean, it's basically unbeatable.

And then some people switch who has the pass every other year, right. And some people do, what I just mentioned a little bit ago go for both adults to have it. My recommendation is to have somebody do kind of what I just talked about, try to get it very early in the year and then have the opposite person do it the next year.

That way when you're trying to time your [00:21:00] bonuses one or the other is working on the renewal and one's working on it the first time. That makes it more perpetual to keep multiple passes in the household at the same time.

Genni: Gotcha. Okay. So like this episode's probably gonna come out in January. So if, let's say you haven't started yet and you're listening to this podcast now, is it too late to get started?

Max Craig: at all. I would say it's almost ideal. So we're recording this in late December, is that this is the perfect time to start, in my opinion, because some people did get their cards and they have what I would call misfired. They achieved their bonus to early, they didn't keep good track of their spend.

Their player two spent money on the card. They had an insurance renewal or something like that, make them go over that minimum spend threshold, and their points will come in December, which means they'll get the pass for the rest of [00:22:00] December. All of next year. So they'll have a pass for 12 and a half months when if they waited to hit their signup bonus, they could have had the pass for 23. So those that are starting, say in January, February, or March, listen to what some people online might say of like, oh, you kind of missed the window. You could have done it the end of the year. No, you can really just go all in, you get your card spend as fast as makes sense for you because you can't mess up the timing when you're starting early in the year and you're gonna get say, 21 or 20 months of the pass rather than 23 with laser focus, but you risk only getting 12.

I would say it's the perfect time to start, because there's less, laser focus and diligence with, with basically not messing it up.

Genni: Yeah, the reason why a lot of people on like Instagram or whatever, they say, oh, you gotta get the card now and just make sure you don't hit the minimum spend and get all your points in December is because of those elevated bonuses and [00:23:00] stuff, but. don't get FOMO or that.

shiny object syndrome when those elevated bonuses come out and stuff. And if you are too nervous about hitting that minimum spend too early, or maybe you're like, it's not a good time for me to hit that spend right now.

I think it's worse for you to just get the card because of FOMO and then not hit that than to get a card when you're ready to, and when you feel confident, you know.

Max Craig: And that's, and that's what gives you the time, right? Is that especially like that 120 k offer is now expired, right? But that offer, you had to be super diligent about when you achieved it because they gave you three months to do the spend, but they took it away with like two months to go.

So if you don't hit it in January, not only do you not get it at all, either get it too early, or if you've missed it in January and that was your spend, like threshold date, [00:24:00] then you don't get the signup bonus at all. So there's definitely more risk of playing that game. Uh, but that's the flexibility is you can go at your own pace.

If you do the two card method and you start now you can achieve the 1 35. In February, it could be March, it could be April, it doesn't matter. You'll get the pass from when you do achieve, say that second cards bonus all the way through the following year. Um, so you do get a couple less months. but for most of us, we're not traveling that intense.

At the beginning of the year typically anyways is, you'll easily have it for say, potentially a spring break vacation or, or those summer vacations when people are more likely to use the, the free flights.

Genni: Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I was like, were you gonna take a trip during those extra two, three months anyways? No. Then why does it matter that you are earning your pass, like, you know, right. In January. So think about that too. I think people lose sight of that and they get tunnel vision.

They can't see the forest beyond the [00:25:00] trees and they're just like, oh, but I need to do it. I need to do it. I want, everyone's talking about it. So like Max said, just take a beat. Think about how this is gonna work for you, and doing something that. Is actually you're doing it at a time that is less stressful for you or you know, is just gonna be the best time for whatever reason, is much better than just getting overwhelmed and not doing anything

Max Craig: Absolute.

Genni: or doing it and then missing it at all.

Max Craig: Yeah, it's like you, I often say in my webinars you go at your own pace. And that's one thing theoretically you're extending your time a bit by playing the late in the prior year game. but it's more risky and you have to be more laser focused.

when you do you take your time and you do it. To me, this is a long term strategy game. This is not that FOMO type game where you're chasing the shiny object and the best deal at the time, the best deal at the time for somebody else may not be the [00:26:00] best time for you. And this is a perfect example of that.

We're talking about the difference between 23 months and say 20 months. how many trips are you gonna take on the pass? Say you're planning on taking five or six, you are getting huge value out of the pass. Not only are you getting the points for the signup bonus to buy the flights with. you're also getting to take all those tripsas a buy one, get one. so really, I focus less on the time because of that, because you get that flexibility. And to bring up one other thing, right nowthey did a temporary pass promo, and it's good from, I believe it's 6th to March 6th, and you had to take certain flights during a certain time period to make that work.

And people are like, why would they, I worked so hard to get a companion pass. Why would they give it away to somebody for free for two months, just for taking like two round trips? And the answer is between January 6th and March 6th. Super slow travel. not a lot of people vacationing. Granted some of the skiers, like [00:27:00] myself, we will take trips in that time period, but there's no spring break.

The only thing really in there holiday wise is like President's Day weekend. And there's a fare amount of people that fly for that, but that's really to try to tease people into, I would say experiencing the buy one get one pass. So people try harder to get the full pass. So those same couple months actually give some people that flexibility if they did that promo as well.

But that's part of the reason they do that usually a couple times a year. And to be honest, that's when Southwest is slow. That's why they're doing it.

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Max Craig: give a free one away in the summer. Why is that? 'cause it's already busy. they do that in kind of off peak times.

Hey guys. It's Genni here. Sorry to interrupt. If you love the podcast, I've got a free budget travel 1 0 1 course to help you start saving on flights, hotels, and more. Grab it@travelingfranklins.com slash budget Travel 1 0 1 or check the show notes. Wanna connect with other like-minded travelers? Join the Lazy [00:28:00] Budget Travel Tips Facebook group.

I share more tips, host live Q as, and keep you up to date on the latest. And if you're looking to show your support, check out my affiliate links or buy me a coffee back to the episode.

Genni: And then, so for those people who are like, well, is it even worth getting those cards when there isn't an elevated bonus? What would you say to that?

Max Craig: the good thing about the elevated bonuses is obviously it makes. Achievement a little easier. So obviously the one card that was a, I'll call that a gift, um, of being able to hit it with one card, business card bonus like that happened. But the reality is doing one of the personal cards, plus usually the lower business card is it still adds up to easily more than 130 5K. And that way you preserve that higher business card for later. What I promote, and I don't think many other creators talk about it this way, is if you do the two card method that way and preserve your bus, the higher business card for [00:29:00] later, that renewal of that pass may be easily achievable with daily activities like spending on the card, doing things like hotel stays and dining program plus one card bonus would keep it because there is a 24 month rule. It's not from when you applied, it's from when you achieve the signup bonus before you can do those cards again. So if you do the two card

You do the.

try to do the two card method again, 24 months from now, it's really more like 27 months. So you're actually gonna shift it out if you, quote, unquote, need to have two cards.

Whereas you really can have all three cards, and if you do it with that elevated bonus on, say the, the higher business card. you erase. I would say that limitation of that cool down period between signup bonuses. so it's another one of those ways to keep your pass in perpetuity by extending it a year at a time.

You don't have to go for the 23 month bonus every time you get a pass. You can [00:30:00] maintain it and extend it a year at a time. That's what I do for myself. I've done the one card or the two card method one time in, I think I've had the pass for about 18 years straight now. Is that one time I did the two card method and that was it.

All the other times I extended a year at a time.

Genni: Wow, you've had it for 18 years

Max Craig: I've had,

Genni: in a row.

Max Craig: Yeah. my wife, my P two basically doesn't know any different than can just choose to add her to anything, whether it's a work booked flight or it's something that we book. I can just add her for the five 60 per segment.

Genni: Oh, wow. Well, she is spoiled.

Max Craig: she is, actually, it's kind of weird. We don't fly, obviously domestically. We hardly ever fly on other airlines. I do for work. But she hardly ever does because like we don't go unless it's really on points, typically, unless it's Southwest. So that's kind of how we do it and we use our transferrable pointsfor other [00:31:00] things.

And sometimes use Southwest to reposition for those kind of flights often to Chicago because that's the area we lived before. But yeah, that gives us huge flexibility and yeah, we don't really know anything different.

Genni: Mm-hmm. Love it. Yeah. my P two's pretty spoiled too. I mean, I feel like all P two's are probably pretty spoiled. They just do what we tell them to do and then just get on the flights.

Max Craig: Yeah.

Genni: So.

Max Craig: That's how my P two is, is just like, what do you need me to do? And I'll, and I'll just do it. And one, joke I used on a webinar is that she asked Hey, did you change the cards in my wallet? And I'm like, I did just use the one that's in there. Oh, okay. 'cause I actually have stickers on the card.

use this one for dining, use this one for grocery, use this one. basically there was a card in there. which of course was a signup bonus card that didn't have any stickers on 'em. I was like, yep, just use that one until we're done with the spend and then we'll reload your wallet.

the normal daily So yeah, some p twos are more passive. Some are fully into the game, some are just like,

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Max Craig: traveling too. Like [00:32:00] just tell me what I need to do so we can go to Europe or Asia once or twice a year and do this by when get one free flight when we do domestic and beach vacation stuff.

Genni: Love it. All right. So do you churn those Southwest cards at all? Like, have you done that in these 18 years, or No, not really.

Max Craig: I've alternated some of the business cards here and there. But like the personal card, maybe once in 20 years that I did it and I think they had some ridiculous bonus and I was just like, ah, it's time. 

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Max Craig: then when I needed to do the two card method I had for a while there, I had both business cards. so no, I very rarely do

Genni: I very rarely do it, but

Max Craig: activity plus like working in like some

Genni: working in

Max Craig: like

Genni: referral.

Max Craig: usually keeps me from having to do it. And that again gives you flexibility to chase and diversify into other programs. 'Cause that's the other challenge with doing, say the two card method, the second or the third time that you have a pass, is you gotta [00:33:00] really watch your velocity with the bank, to be able to have the room to do two cards and relatively close proximity to each other.

'cause you're talking about doing two cards. Basically within 30 to 60 days of each other. And for those that are dabbling in other, other cards and other programs, if you get approved for one card but not the second? you're jammed up, now you 

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Max Craig: more, more gymnastics to either try to get your pass back or keep it.

So that's another reason to try to use what I call those daily driver type activities to keep your pass going in perpetuity is it gives you that flexibility to play the rest of the game. That's obviously wider than just Southwest.

Genni: Right. So what are some common mistakes and misconceptions about, you know, keeping your rapid rewards stash going or achieving and keeping the companion pass.

Max Craig: Yeah, I would say the

Genni: Yeah.

Max Craig: is really what we already talked about is of [00:34:00] not understanding not only the card rules, but also the what's counts for the spend. So there's things that don't count for spend, like your annual fee doesn't count. Things like Venmo and like, like using gambling credits and

Genni: gambling credit and.

Max Craig: So those don't count towards your spend. But usually the mistakes are in meeting the minimum spend too early. and it can be unfortunately as simple as a vendor double charges you and only one goes through because they reverse the other one, but. the transaction counter, only goes up.

So returns don't deduct. From that spend counter, you still need to spend through your original goal. But that spend tracker is super important to keep track of for that reason, is that you can't go off your card statements. You can't say, oh, I spent two grand on this one and a thousand on the other one.

If you returned a thousand dollars worth of stuff. You still hit the four grand. so it depends on obviously what your minimum spends are and things like that. But you gotta be really [00:35:00] diligent in watching that spend tracker. You can't just guesstimate by looking at what kind of closed on your statements.

'cause there's things that go on in between the statements that you might get surprised. And the other thing is like those recurring bills, say you pay your auto insurance and it's every six months is you think you're good and then all of a sudden, boom, an auto insurance fee or something like that, that's recurring hits your statement and it pushes you over that threshold a little too early. so that's one thing. And the other misconception that I think we talked about a little earlier. that you have to buy the original flight to use your buy one get one. And that is true for some of the other airlines is that the original flight has to be a paid flight. You can't use points to be able to apply your companion pass in this program.

That is not true. I have people that literally earn hundreds of thousands of points a year on their Southwest cards, especially those that use it for their business. They haven't for flights in years. Because they earn enough for the trips that they do [00:36:00] take on Southwest.

Genni: Yeah. So if you are a family or even a couple, whatever. And you only take two, even one big trip a year. This is all you need. Yeah, this is all you need.

Max Craig: absolutely right. so that's one thing that I like to kind of use as an example, right? So just rough numbers. If you earn 135,000 points in a year, that's. at least $1,500 worth of free flights. But if since you have a companion pass, it's really three grand because you're able to get, buy one, get one flights on it.

So those points will get you about three grand worth of flights. What signup bonuses are out there right now that are gonna get you three grand worth of free stuff? I usually consider something over a thousand, even 1500 as being super solid for a signup bonus. And really when you combine these things that way, and you're able to fly basically two for one for that duration of time, and that's just one year, [00:37:00] right?

Is that you're really, if you're able to get a pass for say, 20 months or more. you're getting a huge value in return and you don't necessarily just see it in the point volume kind of range, right? It is like Southwest Point, say they're 1.4, 1.50 cents a piece. It's really almost double that because if you're traveling alone, obviously that's the point value, but if you're able to apply the past to it, you're really doubling that and it makes it easily worth more than any of the domestic airlines.

Right now as far as, especially for domestic redemptions.

Genni: Yeah, and also combining Southwest with Hyatt is like, I mean, I can't think of a better combo

Max Craig: absolutely. So that's one thing. I know it's not the topic of today's chat but that is a super good thing, right? So the Chase ultimate rewards both can be redeemed and transferred to either Southwestern or Hyatt. So it's really a one two punch to combine not only the points you earn off a Southwest card but use some of the other cards and now there's other cards like [00:38:00] built that.

I also come to Southwest if you choose to. Right? And so you

Genni: In Hyatt, you can transfer to Hyatt.

Max Craig: now we have Hyatt options too. I'm actually surprised that Chase and Ask were exclusive there because they

Genni: Same.

Max Craig: the Southwest and Hyatt card programs as well. But it gives us a lot of flexibility to work both of those programs together. and it's a huge win. the one thing that I definitely wanna mention though is any of those transferred endpointsto Southwest. They do not count as companion qualifying. So that's good for buying flights and getting your, basically your buy one, get one that's still totally fine.

But it doesn't help you earn status and it doesn't help you renew your companion pass.

Genni: Very good point. Anything else you wanted to say before we get into a couple of like travel wins

Max Craig: just one more. I think a lot, it's probably not as big a volume as it used to be, but some people are like, I can't spend 135 grand a year to keep the pass. don't need to spend anywhere near that, right? So,

Genni: Yeah.

Max Craig: is what I would call the hardest way possible to keep your companion [00:39:00] pass is to do one x spend for the entire year and try to do whatever north of 10 grand a month to do it.

For some people that have business spent, maybe that is easy for them, but for most of us, normal people, that's the, to me, the crazy way to do it, right? So, combining referrals of getting your friends to use your card link, doing things like hotel stays doing things like the shopping portal doing a couple of like reward for opinion surveys here and there, like that's the way to keep it going without spending anywhere near that.

And then to also obviously leverage those signup bonuses that we talked about and knock away at least 50,000 of those qualifying points at least using a card signup bonus.

Genni: Yeah. One of the biggest misconceptions with points of Miles is that people think we're all like huge spenders and bajillionaire, but if we were huge spenders and bajillionaire, I don't think that we would be like extreme couponers with points of miles.

Max Craig: [00:40:00] If you have the money to write a check for a $10,000 business class flight, you probably wouldn't be listening to this podcast. This is how to programs for normal people, right? Normal, everyday spend. That helps give you flexibility to take trips that either wouldn't go on or would end up flying on economy, because you wouldn't wanna be in business class.

But by playing these kind of games, you can travel better on the budget you already have.

Genni: Alright, so just to put things in perspective so that people can really feel the impact of a strategy like Companion Pass or just Southwest Rapid Rewards, what are some like practical, real world examples? Like maybe share your favorite redemption or trip that really showed the power of this program.

Max Craig: Absolutely. So it was five of us. So we got three rooms at an all inclusive on points, obviously not on Southwest points, but on hotel points. we went to Jamaica. So three of us came from Chicago to Jamaica Direct, And [00:41:00] the other two came from Arizona to Jamaica. So they met us there. so five flights, all inclusive stay in Montego Bayon points. So three rooms and the all inclusive, only out-of-pocket money was really the flight taxesthe van to take us to the resort and back to the airport And the airport parking. That was it. so five of us for a week for a few hundred bucks in cash. I calculated back then, this is a pre COVID story. We went right before COVID. that would've easily been eight to grand for the five of us to go. It would've been two to three grand per person, 

But we got to do it all in points and miles. And yes, it was hundreds of thousands of points, but it was worth every penny because it was money that we were gonna spend and card signup, bonuses and things like that, that we didn't have to do anything crazyto get So that's a trip that our kids are now in their twenties still talk about because they had a blast.

So that's one example. Another example is that the flexibilityis that my wife actually works from home as well, [00:42:00] at least most of the time, I was going to a conference and originally when I said I was going, she's just like, nah, I don't wanna go. Then her work schedule changed and she didn't have this huge presentation and she's just like, no, I'll come with,

 So she made that decision literally days before the trip. The price had gone up. We'll use round numbers from say, like 300 round trip to probably like 800 round trip. It didn't matter because the companion pass was $5 and 60 cents per direction either way. sometimes that can get you jammed up. 'cause if the flight was full, I wouldn't have been able to add her. But there was room on the flight, so I got to add her for $11 and 20 cents and she got to come with. So those are huge wins that gives you that flexibility to make what works for youin that equation. that does come up a fare amount where it's like, I don't know if my person's gonna be able to come or not. them in for the flight because you can cancel and get your five 60 back and even if you book them on points, you can get your points back. Southwest is super [00:43:00] flexible that way. As long as you cancel 10 minutes before the flight takes off, which is basically when the doors close, you get all your points back, or you get your money back in. Flight credits. it's still a super flexible program in that regard. all those changes didn't change those types of policies.

Genni: Yeah. And that's nice. I mean, it was sad when they, changed the things that they changed, but for most people, it's still a good program to use, you know, and I think that was the point, is that they wanted to, yes, they love their Southwest loyalists, but they also, they needed to expand.

And I, I understand that.

Max Craig: Yeah. And to me they needed to, what I would say, keep the business travelers, right? So business travelers that have status on other airlines get entitlements to like extended legroom seats and things like that, get those upgrades near departure time and with the old kind of seating modelit wasn't always a guaranteed, like even if you're in that a one [00:44:00] through 30. You didn't necessarily always get those seats, and now they've reconfigured the planes to have those extended legroom seats in those front few rows now with assigned seats. Those are gonna go to either people that pay for them or people that basically earn them through their loyalty to Southwest.

So it's another way for them to remain competitive with the other domestic carriers, because with totally open seating, you couldn't guarantee anything. it was a little bit of hopes and prayers there.

Genni: Yeah. when they announced that they were no longer going to have open seating, I asked in the Facebook group was this a deterrent from you? If you don't fly Southwest and if you do fly Southwest, did you not like this?

pretty much every person said, I didn't fly Southwest because of the open seating. 

and it goes both ways, right? So you wanna reward those business travelers that are taking lots of segments on you a year, but you don't wanna discourage the people that are taking just one or two vacations and they're traveling with multiple children. they did obviously a [00:45:00] family boarding between the a and b group.

Max Craig: but now you'll know if you're traveling as a family, these are our seats. so I think some of the larger groups, especially if you had older children that didn't qualify for family boarding, which is really over sick. so if you have

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Max Craig: like say seven to teenagers, you had to take what you got boarding position wise or try to buy early or do upgraded boarding or things like that.

I think some people said, I don't travel that much. I'll just go on another airline that lets me pick seats. So I think it's the low volume travelers and the high volume travelers both And I think what you talked about is kind of the middle. It was more indifferent.

It was like, Hey, I was always in the late days anyways. It was all right. Either way. I think overall it's a win, even though the initial response was, oh, they're changing everything. This is stressful. I'll look other places. places in my opinion, aren't better. they're doing basically the same thing.

You pick your seat, you're still boarding. As far as boarding group wise, it's still by status and kind of descending order. The people at the highest [00:46:00] status are gonna get on first, and they're really just kind of, modeling it after what the other airlines have done for probably at least a decade.

Genni: Yeah, I mean they made those changes, but they're still better. I mean, like they probably were thinking, where are these people gonna go? Nowhere.

Max Craig: I don't say it out loud a lot, but I think it was a little bit of that of like, where are you gonna go? That's better. you're gonna have assigned seating that's similar to everybody else. The status members are gonna have access to extended leg room similar to what they have on other airlines.

We're still gonna do one bag included. The other airlines. If you don't have their card, you don't get that kind of benefit unless you have the status or something like that as well. It's almost everything is a match, but still some things, obviously like the companion pass are just worlds better. You're not getting one pass per year, you're not gonna spending another whatever, 15, 20 grand to get a second one on your card.

there's some things that are still super solid benefits that isn't even close to what the other airlines offer.

Genni: Yeah. Alright, so [00:47:00] before we kind of wrap things up, let's get into some rapid fire questions. Are you ready?

Max Craig: I am ready.

Genni: I'm ready. Okay. Window or aisle?

Max Craig: Aisle as I got older. When I was younger, it was window after flying a few hundred done over a thousand times. I just take the aisle for ease to get up and get out.

Genni: Yeah. Agreed. Favorite southwest route or destination?

Max Craig: Favorite route, and this is selfish, is Nashville to Denver. It goes many times per day. It makes ski trips super accessible for me. If I go early enough, I can actually ski on the same travel day. If I take an early flight, I can hop in a rental car and still ski like noon, noon to four and take a break.

So it's super convenient to me. it's only a couple hour flight. So that's selfish. I would say second place is Nashville to Milwaukee or Chicago. We have family up in that area still. So again, it's super easy one that works for us.

Genni: Nice. What's your [00:48:00] go-to airport snack?

Max Craig: I, so I'm a Wisconsin guy, born and raised beef jerky is, I always have beef jerky in my bag. It's a good protein source. It's light. And if you travel enough, eventually you're gonna get stuck on a plane for way longer than you expected, right? You're gonna take that one hour flight, but it's gonna take you three or four because you're gonna get stuck in the penalty box on the runway or something like that.

So to be able to have some protein in your bag that doesn't weigh you down and things like that, doesn't get you into extra security or anything like that. It's, it's pretty much always in my bag.

Genni: one. Travel splurge you'll never skip.

Max Craig: Private, private guides in private car services. So, so we've obviously done vacations all over the spectrum of doing group trips and tours and things like that, doing things on our own. I don't think we've ever regretted not having a private car take us to somewhere specific. or having a private guide to do a walking tour of a downtown, say our [00:49:00] first or second day is have somebody show us around.

And you kind of make those mental notes of I want to spend more time there. And we do that on our own. I don't think I've ever regretted paying the little extra, and I'm a pretty frugal person, but paying extra for that one-on-one, definitely worth it.

Genni: And that's the beauty of points, miles, is that you can save on your flights and hotels so that you can splurge without guilt on things that are like that.

Max Craig: And even better, right, is you can do like vier and those types of stuff on some of the travel portals. 

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Max Craig: we burned up some of our Capital One travel portal creditbuying a private guide when we were just in Greece like a month or two ago.

Genni: Yep. No, and that's true too, and there's nothing wrong with that. That is not a bad redemption. There's no such thing.

Max Craig: Yep, exactly. Some people say, oh, that's only a 1 cent redemption free is free.

Genni: Exactly. All right. Well, max, thank you so much for joining me. Where [00:50:00] can the listeners find you?

Max Craig: so if you search on Facebook, that's where I primarily am. Search for Max Craig, MAX C-R-A-I-G. That's my main creator public account on Facebook. the Facebook group that we basically talked about today is called Optimize Southwest. So if you search for Optimize Southwest you'll definitely find that I also have an optimized transferrable points. Both of those accounts will be easily to find once you get there. And then my website is points two thumb max.com. So points, P-O-I-N-T-S-T-O, the THE max MA x.com. So all kinda one link there. But those are on my banners of my pages and my creator account. So you'll find the website. Right now I don't have a ton. I have some blog posts on there. Don't have a ton of content on the website working on refactoring that right now, almost all of what I would say the new freshest materials are definitely on the Facebook groups.

Genni: Yeah, and we're gonna have all [00:51:00] those links in the show notes, so if you just wanna do a click, you can certainly do that. But. Alright guys, that's a wrap on today's episode. Huge thank you to Max Craig for breaking down Southwest in such a clear, practical way from the latest Rapid Rewards updates to simple strategies for getting the most out of the companion pass.

I hope this conversation showed you that Southwest doesn't have to be confusing or overwhelming.you get to choose the strategies that feel easy, realistic, and actually fun for you. So if you wanna keep learning straightforward points and miles tips come join us in the Lazy Budget Travel Tips Facebook group 

So thanks for listening, guys, and we'll see you in the next episode.