Better Trips, Not Just Better Redemptions: Round-the-World Tickets Explained

What if your points and miles strategy didn’t just save you money… but made you a better traveler? 

In this episode, Genni sits down with Kelsey from Point Sisters to talk about responsible travel, global citizenship, and how points can support more thoughtful tourism—without turning travel into a guilt trip.

You’ll hear how Kelsey and her sister Devan got into points and miles through a FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) mindset, why “being a global citizen” matters now more than ever, and how small, simple choices—like shoulder season travel, nonstop flights, and staying longer in each destination—can completely change your experience.

Plus, Kelsey breaks down why the JAL OneWorld Round-the-World ticket is one of the most powerful redemptions in the game (and why “go slow” is the #1 rule if you want to do it right).

What you’ll learn in this episode

• How Point Sisters went from “points as kids” to full-on optimizers through FIRE
• What “responsible travel” actually means
• Why tourism can create unintended consequences
• How to use points to avoid overtourism: follow the deal + choose less-hyped destinations
• Why slow travel is better for you and the places you visit
• Shoulder season travel tips (better deals, fewer crowds, lower impact)
• The basics of round-the-world awards (and why JAL is so interesting)
• The biggest mindset shift: travel smarter… not just cheaper

Timestamps

• 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
• 01:10 Meet Kelsey from Point Sisters
• 01:17 The Journey into Points and Miles
• 02:45 Financial Independence and Responsible Travel
• 03:38 Understanding Global Citizenship
• 07:37 Impact of Tourism on Local Cultures
• 18:06 Practical Tips for Responsible Travel
• 23:30 Slow Travel and Its Benefits
• 28:13 Exploring Around the World Tickets
• 29:07 Maximizing JAL Around the World Tickets
• 29:58 Example Itineraries and Cost Analysis
• 31:15 Comparing Points and Cash Costs
• 32:19 Flexibility and Alternatives with JAL
• 33:57 Booking Strategies and Challenges
• 37:43 Award Bookings and Coaching Services
• 41:32 Rapid Fire Travel Tips
• 45:18 Eco-Friendly Travel Hacks
• 47:19 Conclusion and Contact Information

Where to find Kelsi and Devan

• Point Sisters (Instagram): @pointsisters
• Website: pointsisters.com

Transcript

Genni: Hey friends. Welcome back to the Lazy Budget Travel Tips podcast. I'm your host Genni Franklin, and today's episode is such a good one, if you've ever dreamed about taking a round the world trip, or you're curious how point smiles can actually make you more thoughtful and responsible traveler.

I'm sitting down with Kelsey from Point Sisters, the sister duo known for their epic round the world itineraries and their mission to make points of Miles accessible for every kind of traveler. We're diving into how they got started,and the big theme they've been thinking about lately.

Responsible travel and what it really means to be a global citizen. You'll hear simple habits

for being a more thoughtful traveler. How points of miles can support responsible tourism and why round the world tickets might be one of the most intentional ways to see multiple [00:01:00] regions. You're gonna walk away with practical strategies, inspiring stories, and a fresh perspective on how to travel smarter, not just cheaper.

 So let's get into it. Hey Kelsey, thanks for being on the podcast.

Kelsi Sullivan: Genni, thanks so much for having me. Super excited to be here.

Genni: So why don't you tell us how you and Devan got into points, miles, and started Points Sisters.

Kelsi Sullivan: Yeah, So we've been points and miles forever since we were children, actually. We grew up abroad and our parents points and miles to bring us back to the United States, you know, every summer or every Christmas to see our family and really get to know that side of our, of our culture, if you will. And so we use them a lot, but I wouldn't say it wasn't until much later that we became the optimizers that we are today. and I think that that really came from our interest in financial freedom. So, we were [00:02:00] big in the FI community. We kind of became obsessed with like, okay, fire, like financial independence and retiring early. And if you spend any time in the fire community, you'll find quickly that points and Miles is a very niche kind of subset of the fire community. And I think one day we were like, wait a minute. We're on this path to spend less money so that we can invest more, retire early, set ourselves up for success. But we grew up traveling. We already used points and miles, and so it felt like a really transition. And then we just, you know, as any points and Miles person knows, like junkie knows you, you get on one Reddit and, and it's kind of game over. And that's where we are today.

Genni: That's so interesting that you talk about fire 'cause it's not something that we've really touched on that much on this podcast,we talked about points of miles and how that, you know, translates into being more financially [00:03:00] literate, but, you know, talking about fire, which is financial independence, retire early.

That's also another part of it that, like you said, if you're into that, then that's also another like, subset of it. And actually that's something that Brandon and I have been really looking into lately and interested in doing and trying to figure out ways for us to be able to spend less and invest more so that we can then, retire early or be work optional or there's so many other, like, there's like Coast Fire, there's all different types of.

Kelsi Sullivan: many

Genni: So many things. definitely encourage the listeners to look into that. But what also kind of sparked your interest in responsible travel or seeing yourself as a global citizen and what does global citizen mean to you? Like your worldview, empathy, connection. why has this topic been on your mind so much lately?

Kelsi Sullivan: Yeah, thanks so much for [00:04:00] this question. I think that the answer is kind of three parts, I guess, but it's mostly personal. I think it's because Devan and I grew up abroad. We spent all of our developmental years outside of the United States, and there's actually a term for it, like a sociological and anthropological term.

It's called a third culture kid. And I'm reading a book on it now. if someone's never heard the term third culture kid, it's someone who spends their entire developmental years, zero to 18, outside of their parents home culture. my parents are American, but I grew up in Puerto Rico and in Mexico and spent my entire life outside of the United States. school system,economic system. I spent my life outside of that.that really. Shaped me completely while I was growing up and it gave me this worldview of global citizen.

And, and to me [00:05:00] that means recognizing that we're all interconnected, right? So socially, culturally, environmentally, what we do in one place impacts people somewhere else. Whether very direct or Indirect. And if that's true, right? So if we go based on this premise that we are all interconnected, then we have a responsibility to move through the world with intention, respect, curiosity, tolerance. And so I would say that that's really the personal side. And then there's this other side, right? that side is more just, I. Practical. So on the other side is more the business side, right? Devan and I work with Point Sisters and our goal is very simple. Help people make smart financial decisions with their, with the money they already spend, and use those points to expand [00:06:00] their worldview. And so we want people to travel not just for fun, that's great, but because leaving your hometown or home state will naturally broaden your perspective and when you meet people who are different from you, you become more globally aware and more tolerant without even trying. And so for us, helping people means helping them step into this global citizen, global worldview. And you know, then there's a whole nother set of people, the people who aren't traveling with points and miles, but people who are just traveling more in general. If we look at. the economy right now, I think people between the ages of 20 and 50 feel really shut out of traditional milestones, like home ownership. And what they're doing is they're shifting their spending towards experiences, We hear this all the time, the [00:07:00] experiential economy, and it's true, We have like, there's real, real studies, real data that says, you know, I'm not gonna buy into home ownership because I will never be able to break in there.

So I am going to fly anywhere in the world to see Taylor Swift. I'm going to spend money on live music, I'm going to travel, I'm gonna go see my friends and family in far away places. We are seeing more. than ever. And that's amazing. And I love seeing people travel the world, but still like anything that grows exponentially or really quickly, it can have unintended consequences. So I think that generally speaking, there's this belief if you are a tourist or like a traveler I think people will say, well, if I'm spending money, I'm helping the local economy andsometimes that's true, but it also can have unintended consequences. And I think we see really, really impactful [00:08:00] examples of that. Like the home city where I grew up, Mexico City, it's a perfect example. We saw a huge influx of high earning digital nomads and it's, brought a lot of gentrification, a lot of money to the city. But what has it also done? It's also pushed locals out of central neighborhoods. it's also created these subcultures that are unintended consequences, right?

So this is a very niche example, but I think it really proves my point. Mexicans eat lunch at two and 3:00 PM That is the time that we call comida. So we eat a heavy meal between two and 3:00 PM It takes a long time, an hour, hour and a half, two hours on a weekday. But since the influx of foreign tourists, especially Americans have come, kind of saturated, Mexico City restaurants are now changing when they serve lunch and they're serving lunch at 12 one, right?

To accommodate this, this foreign [00:09:00] palette and. We're changing the culture whether we know it or not. Right. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but we are changing it. And if you are unaware of this, then you missed the plot. You missed being a global citizen. Right. And so I, you know, I think I kind of went on and on, I'm just clearly so passionate about this topic, but we want to help people travel and it's important that we talk about exploring the world and respecting the places and people who make those destinations special. And that's why this idea of global citizenship and responsible travel are really top of mind. And I think we just don't talk about it enough in the points in Miles community, because we're so and obsessed, myself included, getting, you know, that 57,000 redemption in business class to London. [00:10:00] And so I think that it's important we talk about it.

Genni: I completely agree and it's also been something on my mind. I don't think I've thought about it in the way that you have, obviously. 'cause I'm not a third culture kid. Although I find like as you were talking about it, I thought to myself, I've thought of those things and I've seen people post about all they really care about is getting those great redemptions.

And honestly that's awesome and I love that for them, but they don't really. I don't see, and I can tell by some of the things that people post in like Facebook groups and stuff, they don't stop to think like, okay, when I get to this place that I'm going to with this amazing redemption, how can I.

Learn and embrace the culture of that place and that destination as opposed to trying to [00:11:00] impose my culture and my beliefs On them. And I don't know if that's the right way to say it, but that's kind of like what pops in my head when people are like, oh, well I don't like this about this, or it's not that I don't like it, but they might say, oh, well I have to eat at noon to go with your example.

I have to eat at noon and I'm going to Mexico City and they don't serve lunch until 2:00 PM. Like, how am I going to survive? Instead of thinking, okay, I'm going to Mexico City, I'm so excited to learn about the culture, meet the people, speak to them, and just be just like immersed in this new culture and.

I want to know, okay, so they have lunch at 2:00 PM I usually have lunch at noon. What can I do to be able to accommodate them rather than demanding that they accommodate me? Someone who is coming from a foreign destination [00:12:00] to their home and imposing my beliefs on them, you know?

Kelsi Sullivan: Yeah, no, absolutely. Kind of like these micro shifts and, right. It's not forever, it's just for the few days you're in Mexico City, it's like, well, this is what they do, that we don't eat until two or 3:00 PM And if it's a Friday, that 3:00 PM lunch turns into dinner and, you know, we'll be there until 11.

And, of course, if it's just maybe you and a partner, you're not gonna stay at dinner for hours, but you'll see it, you'll observe it. And I think even being able to observe it and say, oh wow, those, I think that they've been there all day. Like, I think it, you know, why, why do they sit around the table all day?

Oh, because Mexicans value community. They value family, they value relationships. And I, Oh, wait, so do I. Right. And that's where we get. We are all interconnected, [00:13:00] right? This creates tolerance. Tolerance when we can see what we agree on, what we have in common, more than, you know, what social media tells us to always look at our differences. I think this is where, travel can really build bridges and I think that's what Devan and I we try to do.

Genni: Yeah.

Kelsi Sullivan: I also wanna say, that I'm talking about traveling here, and so I don't want someone to click off the podcast being like, well, I wanna go to my all inclusive resort in Mexico.

Hey Chica, do your thing. That is a vacation. I'm not saying that we all need to vacate our lives sometimes, you know? And if you're going to Mexico, sitting on the beach, not gonna speak to one other person and you're gonna drink a margarita and eat some tacos. live your best life. I don't think every single of your life needs to be dedicated to this, but even if [00:14:00] 1% of your travel or 10% of your travel can, we can, Make these micro changes in thought. That is good. And that's what we aspire to, like small improvements. so I do wanna say like, I'm not talking about that, you know, like chill on your vacation. that's beautiful.

Genni: Yeah, and I think you might also be, not you Kelsey, but like the audience, like you might be pleasantly surprised at how much it enhances your experience and like you said, broadens your horizons just by making those micro changes. 

you know, it's important to see how other people live and to have different types of experiences. we did grow up traveling, we had a family trip to Italy, and I remember that was my first time in Europe.

We went on a tour group. So it was very much like, this is a tour group. We are here to accommodate you, but our tour guide was Italian. And so listening to her. It be [00:15:00] very passionate about the fact like, yes, we're a tour group, we're here for you, but also you're in my country and this is how we do things.

and she's not telling us that because she wants us to feel bad about how we do things in America. She's just telling us. 'cause she wants us to know and understand. And I had never really experienced that before. I had, been all over the United States, gone to Puerto Rico. But like having that type of experience, I was like, wow, what a mind shift.

something that clicked in my head to where I was like, I want to do that. Like I want to, if I'm gonna be traveling to other countries, I want to understand. How they do things and why. So I think if whoever's listening, if you're like, oh, you know, I don't wanna change the whole way I travel.

Kelsi Sullivan: You don't have to I really like this story, Genni, because, I think it points to something that I hadn't thought about recently, but, our [00:16:00] privilege, right? and I just mean the privilege of being an American citizen, of having a passport where for, a hundred countries, you don't need a visa, right?

this just already makes your life way easier coming from a country where the dollar is, a pretty strong currency abroad, Like just these kind of privileges is what I'm referring to here. In the United States, we can have whatever we want, whenever we want, anytime we want, right.

And, there are no barriers. If you need something, Jeff Bezos will have it at your door in under four hours. And that is interesting because most of the world, you cannot have what you want whenever you want. I think, with globalization, of course, even Mexico City, I couldn't get like peanut butter and stuff growing up as a child, but you can get most things and you know, that is something you have to check yourself, right?

When you go places, it's like, okay, well I might be [00:17:00] uncomfortable. not because it's that uncomfortable, but just because I'm maybe too comfortable. Like I've never had to wait for anything in my whole life, right? Like if you grew up in the United States and you live here now, like there's never been a barrier as long as you have the means to afford it.

so yeah, that's an interesting point. It's like you go somewhere and the tour guide's like, that's actually not how we do it. Like, I know that's how you wanna do it, because where you're from, you get whatever you want, whatever you want. But that's not how we do it here. So I like that story.

Genni: Yeah. 

Kelsi Sullivan: a good reminder for myself.

Genni: I mean, and I've, I've heard people make comments where they're like, well, I didn't like this place because I couldn't get my Dunking Donuts. And I was like, well, did you go there for Dunkin Donuts? Because if you just wanted your Dunkin Donuts coffee, then you should just stayed at home because, you know, like, that's the, I don't feel bad for you.

And don't get me wrong, Dunkin's. Great.

Kelsi Sullivan: I totally get it. You needed to [00:18:00] take a trip to New England just for the Dunking, like I'm here for it.

Genni: All right. I know that you guys are here for the points of miles, so let's get into What are some ways, points of Miles can support responsible travel? Let the people know,

Kelsi Sullivan: Okay. Yeah, so I think there's like a number of things you can do. I think that you can. Let the points and miles guide you. oftentimes we'll see really excellent redemptions kind of randomly last minute to somewhere people will be like, I wanna go to Japan, which I totally get.

We have bucket list destinations a hundred percent. But I think that if you are open to exploring different places, you can find really, really excellent redemptions to other places. this actually happened with a client just recently. She was like, my son is turning 10. You know, [00:19:00] we do a major trip.

We plan a major trip for her and her husband and her family every year. And so at this point, she feels very safe and you know, she's like, can you just tell me where to go? And I said. They didn't have a ton of points left 'cause we had liquidated a bunch for their previous one. I said, why don't we, why don't we send you guys to Peru?

There's a great redemption on Virgin Atlantic from Atlanta to Lima, nonstop direct on latam business class. Peru is fricking awesome. And she was like, Ooh, I don't know about Peru. I had never considered Peru. Is Peru safe? I was like, think that if you go to Peru, you may not go back to Atlanta. Like it is so fun. And sure enough, they went to Peru and she wrote me and she was like, this was the greatest adventure of my life. we went to Machu Picchu, we did all these things. my son will never forget this. And I think that we want to avoid over tour. So there's kind of [00:20:00] like two things at play here. One, consider places that are not your Instagram kind. Top 10 destinations,

Genni: Amen.

Kelsi Sullivan: I'm going to Mongolia this year. I found an awesome deal. if you're going with this intent of being a global citizen and a responsible traveler, should know that wherever you go, you will learn something. actually, I think where there's less tourism, you'll likely learn more because tourists haven't changed the subcultures like what we're talking about. So if you can find, let the points just kind of guide you, let them kind of take you somewhere you never thought you'd go. 

So like one of the things you can do is travel during shoulder season. I think that that's a really good way to kind of even out, first of all, you'll find great deals. Second of all, you'll even out all the kind of overt tourism we see like in Europe in the summer.

and you won't deal with crowds.

Oh my god, it's [00:21:00] insane. Like I won't even go to Europe in the summer now I hate the winter. So that tells you a lot of stuff. Like, so I think those things can happen. I think, there's obvious ones, right? nonstop flights, right. That's obviously just gonna, a responsible or traveler just nonstop is better for the environment.

I think we all know that. and then I think there's of course the around the world, which I think people always wanna talk about. The around the world can be very good for responsible tourism. But I think also too, we constantly have to guide our clients towards a more responsible way of travel.

And so I think, you know, there's a couple around the world. So we have the a NA around the world, which no longer exists, but people who have booked around the worlds are gonna be flying them through June of this [00:22:00] year. So we still have plenty of people who are on and around the world and they can make minor modifications kind of throughout. I guess I'll be speaking kind of to that audience, the people who already have a NA around the worlds and are making modifications. But then we have the JAL around the world, which Devan talked about at the Travel More Conference. So the around the world, both programs are very different. a NA requires you to go around, like physically around the world, across both oceans. JAL doesn't require that, which is actually really nice. A NA you have to call in every time that you wanna book it and you're on Star Alliance, JAL, you're on the One World Alliance and you can actually book online or you can call in, you know, so both have their pros and cons. One of the things about the around the world is you can make up to eight stops, but as both programs are different, so they have kind of minimum and maximum stops.

One of the things that we have to push a lot with people is go slow, [00:23:00] right? I can't tell you the amount of clients who are like, I wanna fly to Taipei, and then two days later, two days is enough in Taipei. When people tell me that it drives, it actually irks me when they're like, oh yeah, three days is enough in Paris.

It's like, oh my god, what are you talking about? Yeah, you can see everything you need to see in Taipei in two. Like what? Like sure, I get it. It's a small place, but there are people, there's culture, there's things to do, right? Anyway, so the point is you want to go as slow as possible. Now we all have constraints in our life.

We have family, children, mortgages, PTO constraints. So I'm not saying like, ah, you can only do it around the world if you have nine weeks. Like, no, that's amazing if you could. But I think realistically nobody has that. you should deeply, deeply consider at least three weeks. Because the fact of the matter is [00:24:00] flying time zones, all these things, if you don't give yourself at least three weeks, like you haven't even been in a place more than three days.

and so that's what we say, we tell people, take it slow, try fewer destinations for longer. And those places. Get to know those places, right?

As opposed to just bouncing every three days. And then when you take into account like ground transfers, so like both programs will allow a ground transfer, which means you fly into like Munich for instance, but then you couldn't find a flight out of Munich. So you have to transfer yourself to, I don't know, maybe like Paris or Budapest or something like that.

you have to account for all these things. Like you're gonna land in Munich, you need to get on the time zone, need to see Munich Munich's, a beautiful, lovely city. And then you're gonna what? Take a train the next morning at 9:00 AM What if you miss your train?

Like you have to really account for all these things. And so going [00:25:00] slower. Doing less is so, so good not only for you, but also for the countries you are visiting. I think too, when you stay longer, like there are plenty of points, deals that work, right? So I think my recommendation when being like a global citizen or responsible or traveler, you know, obviously depending on your budget, if you can stay at a locally owned place and contribute to the local economy, like. You know, somebody who owns an Airbnb, something like that I think is preferable. But if you're using Points and miles, which a lot of us do, if you're staying longer, you always get the benefit, right? Like, we know a ton of programs that stay four nights, get the fifth night free. And so it's really in your best interest to stay longer anyway and really maximize the value of your points.

I think we see that with, is it Hilton? Is it Marriott? So we see it with a few different pro IHG, see it with a few different programs.

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Kelsi Sullivan: And then when you're there longer, you can just go slower, take a tour, learn about the culture. Just go sit at a cafe or something, and. Talk to someone. I can't tell you how many times I've just been sitting at a cafe and somebody will just strike up a conversation and they're like, what are you doing here?

I'm like, I have no idea. What do you recommend I do? And they're like, ma'am, maybe you should find something to do, but

Genni: No, and I love that. And I think, I think we need to [00:27:00] say that more, tell people more slow travel. It's, it's, it's cool.I know that people don't talk about it and they think that going to a different country every day is cool, but honestly, spending at least three nights in one city is very cool. Trust me, you should try it.

When my mom retired a couple years ago, our dream has been to go to Spain. But you know, it, it was just,

Kelsi Sullivan: this trip.

Genni: yeah, and it was just kind.

Kelsi Sullivan: like you messaged me about it.

Genni: Yeah, it was always on the list and stuff, but I very much, when I was trying to think about where to take her to celebrate her retirement, I was very much like, let's just follow the deal.

Like where are the points gonna take us? And so I ended up finding really great redemption with Iberia from Miami, which is our home airport to, Madrid. And we spent 12 nights total, four nights in each city. And I remember talking to somebody about [00:28:00] that and they were like, oh my gosh, what a slow travel four nights.

That's so long in one city. And I was like, what? It was great. I felt. I felt like it wasn't long enough. like I should have spent more time 

so let's talk briefly about if you were going to do and around the world, because I feel like. kind of an unknown program and we're not gonna get into every detail here on this podcast, but at least it will perk up the ears of your listeners and maybe they can do a little research on their own. we have the a NA around the world. Tickets no longer bookable, so anyone who's already booked one is traveling through June of 2026. this would include myself, but we have the JA one World Award ticket, which is, very interesting. And is similar to a NA, it's based on a mileage chart, so it's based on the distance of miles flown [00:29:00] and there's a really nice chart and you can fly economy, business class, first class, whatever you want.

Kelsi Sullivan: And the redemption is magnificent. I mean, there really isn't a better deal if

Genni: If there is.

Kelsi Sullivan: you know, your girl's here for it, but like there just is not order like in the sense of getting you on so many different aircraft carriers to so many different places for so little. So the, when you're traveling like around the world, we typically see people traveling between 12,000 and about 29,000 miles around the world. It really depends what you're doing. 'cause JAL doesn't require you to physically go around the world. You can kind of bop, bop around we'll probably see lower. flight paths, but generally speaking, most people will fall there between 12,000 miles flown and 29,000 miles flown. And this will cost on a JAL around the world ticket between 115,000 and 190,000 points in business class. I, I can give an example, [00:30:00] itinerary. So, a very

Genni: very good example.

Kelsi Sullivan: we're gonna tap into the One World Alliance, and so we're gonna fly on their aircraft carriers.

And I live in Southern California, so my example is out of Southern California, but you could fly Cafe Pacific from LAX to Hong Kong. You could fly on Ga, Qatar, Hong Kong to Doha, Doha to, Heathrow also on Qatar. And then you could fly, Heathrow. To San Diego directly on British or back to LAX, you know, whatever.

I'm in San Diego, so that's my preference. And if you priced all of these out individually on JAL, so purchase through an air, partner airline, it would cost, a 224,000 JAL miles. And with the current transfer partner from Capital One to JAL, it's not one-to-one. So that's about 300,000 capital one points. But you also, you have, is it Bilt?

Genni: Yeah,

Kelsi Sullivan: that now transfers to JAL and [00:31:00] so they transfer outta one-to-one. I just don't have any Bilt points, so I'm

Genni: same.

Kelsi Sullivan: One. Yeah. but still a really good deal, right? I mean, 300,000 points to go around the world, whatever. Now that's, if you price out each one individually. And if you look at the cash cost, I mean, I don't even really wanna look at the cash cost because we know two, a flight on Cathay alone is going to be, and then we have two Qatar and then one British. And British is always just ridiculous for no reason. That's probably around $25,000. But if you did the JL one world ticket, the mileage flown for that exact itinerary is a little under 20,000 miles.

And that would cost 120,000 JL points. And so if you're using Capital One to transfer, that's now 160,000 points to go around the world. And

Genni: And I'm sorry.

Kelsi Sullivan: you just can't find a better deal I'm [00:32:00] going to Taipei and I booked it on Delta. 'cause I just had stranded Delta miles.

I don't necessarily think this was the best redemption, but I have some stranded miles and it was 115,000 points. That's one flight that's giving me, one way. Your girls going one way to Asia for 115,000, whereas I could spend 160 Capital One and take these four flights around the world. And so, you know, you really think about these itineraries, you can do something really, really big like going around the world, but also you're gonna wanna think about like, how long is that gonna take?

These flights are 13 hours. How long do you wanna spend there? realistically, how are you gonna do this in a week? You're not right. You're gonna want three weeks, maybe a month. You do want three or four days in each of these countries. So you could make

Genni: Make it even

Kelsi Sullivan: right? 

Genni: smaller,

Kelsi Sullivan: could do something 

Genni: not necessarily

Kelsi Sullivan: distance, but maybe. around the world. You could go San Diego to Narita. We have a nonstop on [00:33:00] JAL. You could go Narita to Fiji, Fiji to Sydney, Sydney to LAX on Quantas. Or you could go from Fiji back to

Genni: to San.

Kelsi Sullivan: or Fiji to LAX. That's really the nice benefit with JAL, right? You're just kind of going across the Pacific, going down and coming back.

You're not necessarily having to go around the world like we had to with A-N-A-A-N-A had a lot of really, really just so many rules. It was honestly so complicated, but it allowed for a lot of comp, like creativity. Whereas JL is just really flexible. same kind of itinerary would also cost you 160,000 points. and it's just, you know. Who here on this podcast has 160,000 capital one points. mean, probably a good chunk of people. Like, it's, it's not that many points. That's just a couple sign on bonuses. So, yeah, really doable. I think it's just kind of the best redemption in the Points of Miles world. And, we can't go into every single detail [00:34:00] here in this podcast, but, if, you ever wanna hear us speak, we, we always speak at conferences probably at least once or twice a year.

And, you know, we really do, full in-depth sessions and we give away all the information and we say, this is exactly how to do it from A, B, C, all the way to Z. And so if you wanted something really more comprehensive, love to meet you in person and you can come to one of those talks, where we can really dive in.

But I think it's just such a deal. And as points and Miles, people, we love a deal.

Genni: Oh, we love a deal. A hundred percent.

Kelsi Sullivan: Your deal to Spain was really good. It you, because you told me you got the 30 4K before it went

Genni: Mm-hmm. Yeah. that was pretty awesome. 

And I love how you guys literally like no gatekeeping. the first time I met you guys was at travel more. And you were talking about round the world for with a and a, and you literally give us the whole spiel, like this is exactly step one, you do [00:35:00] this, step two, this is how you do it.

And everybody walked up to you and was like, so how much do you charge to do it? And you were like, wow. I told you guys exactly how to do it.

Kelsi Sullivan: That's the funny thing. I was like, 'cause Devan and I talk about that a lot. We're like, we charge $500 for this service because it's very complex. Like there's a lot of moving pieces. it takes a lot of time. And I was like, if we tell them all step by step how to do this, will we just lose our entire business?

and we ultimately were like, nah, let's just go for it. we want people to get after it. And like, honestly at the end of it, we were inundated with requests. Devan and I almost had a panic attack like, come May. So, but yeah, we. You get after it, we will give you all the like A through Z.

You won't even need to contact us. You can do it on your own. But I think most people just ultimately decide like, I don't really wanna do this [00:36:00] on my own. I'm like, okay, we're here to do that too, if that's what you want.

Genni: Well, and they're saving so much money by using these points like for me, the stress on top of not really having time. 

 a lot of mental gymnastics, a lot of coordination, and then also a lot of time on the phone with a NA and I don't have that. I don't wanna spend all that time, you know? So I think it makes sense.

Kelsi Sullivan: funny on that topic of travel more, this one couple, Michael and his partner, he, they wrote me, I can't remember when, kind of recently, and they're like, we saw your talk at Travel more we attempted to do this on our own. And he was like, I spent 17 hours on the phone with a NA and they had to go back 'cause they record all your conversations with a NA and they had to go back and listen [00:37:00] the recording because of like some weird detail that got lost in translation.

And I was like, sometimes you hear these horror stories and if you hear that horror story, I think the immediate thing that no, I'm booking with Kelsey and Devan. Spending 17 hours on the phone with someone with a NA who, like where there's a language barrier, you know?

Genni: Well, and that's on top of all the research that you're doing, trying to figure out the segments that are working 

Kelsi Sullivan: I was so proud because I was like, yes, that is

Genni: Yeah.

Kelsi Sullivan: I didn't wanna feel like they came and paid only to be sold something.

Genni: Oh, I know. True.

Kelsi Sullivan: I don't like that. And so I was like, hell yeah.

They

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Kelsi Sullivan: tried and I love that.

Genni: So for the listeners, you guys don't only book Round the World. You guys do other bookings for people as well, right? it would be great if people knew what you guys offer.

Kelsi Sullivan: Oh yeah, of course we do award bookings all the time. And that's the person [00:38:00] who's like, yo, I, you know, I heed the call, I got all these points, I opened up all the credit cards. I spend so much money 'cause I have kids in a business and I have four bajillion Amex points and I wanna go to Paris and business class. And we're like, Papi, we're here to make your dreams come true. And that's kinda how it works. 

Genni: Love it.

Kelsi Sullivan: yeah. So, know, I think if you're one of those people that's just got like a ton and you're like, I. Please help me. Like that's us. we do do a lot of guiding, right? Because I think with points and miles, you know, anyone who's been in the hobby for a while knows that like, it can be hard.

sometimes we will pivot. Sometimes we'll be like, we'll tell you straight up. this is not possible. I'm working with a client right now. She wants six business class tickets to Japan. I don't know how we got one way we did, we got one way

Genni: Oh my God.

Kelsi Sullivan: I texted her and she's a doctor and I think she was like mid surgery and I was like, I mean, not [00:39:00] quite, you know what I'm saying? But I was like, you need to get here now. Like, this will not last.

Genni: That's hilarious.

Kelsi Sullivan: yeah, that one was like the craziest, but we don't have her return. I told her, I'm gonna be legit. We're probably not gonna get your return. Or if somebody just has something that doesn't make any sense, we'll be like, love the vision.

What if, and we'll pivot. And some people are, you know, very uninterested in travel and very interested in like business class or first class.

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Kelsi Sullivan: if it's something that we think, you know, that's not gonna happen. that's not really what points and miles is about.

Well just say, just pay cash. Like if you're like, if you're this fixated on this, you need to pay cash.

Genni: Yeah, absolutely.

Kelsi Sullivan: so that's what we do. award bookings all the time. We also do coaching calls for very, very novice people. you're still kind of trying to understand what points and miles are we'll go over transfer [00:40:00] partners, how to do very basic redemptions, maybe something in domestic, like Southwest or maybe a quick trip to Europe.

 it's harder coaching calls to work with, like very advanced people. so yeah, I mean those are the kind of things that we do. And then of course you can follow us on Instagram. We just kind of bop around and do educational stuff. But I mean, you could do all of this on your own if you just looked at our Instagram

Genni: Yeah.

Kelsi Sullivan: us to do it for you.

Genni: Yeah, I love it. I've been doing this for a long time and I feel like I'm still very, I mean, I know I'm not beginner in the sense that, like, I know a lot of stuff, but as far as it coming to, when it comes to actually getting those like really crazy redemptions, like six business class tickets to Japan, like, no way.

I tried to find three business class tickets to Japan for next year And I gave up and we just booked a zip bear because it actually ended up turning out that we had to, fly certain dates. And I was like, well then forget it. Like if we have to fly certain dates, then, then no, [00:41:00] let's just fly zip air.

 I mean, that's a thing too, right? Like you have to pay cash, like points of miles doesn't make things free.

No.

Kelsi Sullivan: but just for future reference, like if you have someone doing Japan, I've had the most success with British Airways. 

I've had the best experience with quantity of seats, not necessarily redemption, right,

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Kelsi Sullivan: of seats. I've had the best with British Airways, you know exactly when their calendar opens out, whatever that is, like 355 days. That's been my best experience. 

Genni: all right, so why don't we get into the rapid fire.

Kelsi Sullivan: I'm sorry guys. 'cause I usually don't end up being rapid fire, but, sorry, not sorry. Are you ready?

I'm ready.

Genni: Okay. Favorite destination for responsible tourism?

Kelsi Sullivan: Okay. This one was hard for me, but I think, 'cause I think so many places do do this well, but I was like, let me just do like a 12 month look back I think Tanzania was a [00:42:00] great one for me. I hiked Mount Kilimanjaro. myself, but you have to go with a local guide. And the guides are actually trained by the government and like, need a certification and all this stuff.

And it's like, pack it in, pack it out, and the guides take just like unreal care of the mountain because it's literally their livelihood. they'll talk you through customs. They eat all of the meals with you. I just spent so much time with my Tanzanian guide and he was part of the Maasai and I really felt like I got so much from him in terms of how Tanzanians eat, how they care about, the earth.

So it was really nice.

Genni: What's one thing Travelers should start doing?

Kelsi Sullivan: Going places that are a little bit more uncomfortable.

Genni: Mm-hmm. Yep. Get out of that comfort zone. I agree. when we're ready to book our next [00:43:00] trip after Japan, I think I need to reach out to you and like, just let you pick my trip. Just be like, tell me where should I go?

Kelsi Sullivan: you're going into Namibia,

Genni: Okay. Favorite round the world. Stop.

Kelsi Sullivan: so I haven't been there yet, but I think it's gonna be Mongolia.

Genni: Yeah.

Kelsi Sullivan: In April, think this is gonna be one for the books. I found a local guide who's working on like sustainable community development and I'm staying in like a local gz run by biologists in a national park. so yeah, I think, I think that that's gonna be awesome.

Genni: Wow. that sounds really cool.

Kelsi Sullivan: The only thing I'm a little concerned about is like, it's a little expense. Like that's the one thing Traveling alone is like a little bit more expensive. I'm like, oh my God, I need like a GoFundMe. So, but here we go. So I'm Kelsey to Mongolia, but it's okay. 'cause I was like, again, like kind of going back to like being a [00:44:00] responsible traveler.

I'm not going with some like huge tour

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Kelsi Sullivan: It's like this woman. Owns her own little business is working with local biologists and if all my money goes to her, just take it

Genni: Yeah.

really need it. Oh man. All right, so Go to points. Currency for travel.

Kelsi Sullivan: yeah, I mean, I'm an optimizer, so it's gonna be any currency that's gonna transfer, especially as like a solo traveler. It's like any currency that travels with a, like a bonus promo. So yeah, I think recently I've been at Amex girly, like I literally have like 12,000 points.

But you know, I'm an optimizer. 

Genni: Yeah.

Kelsi Sullivan: I'm probably going somewhere on Virgin for a 40% bonus.

Genni: Yeah. That's how Brandon and I went to, we just did two weeks in the UK and it was because 40% transfer bonus, and I had chase points. I didn't really have a lot of points anywhere else, and I was like, well, I guess, I mean, [00:45:00] this is a good use of those points, especially since we did, upper class on the 8 3 3900 Neo from Miami to Heathrow.

Yeah. And I was like, you know what? We're doing it like, I guess we're going to the uk.

Kelsi Sullivan: Yeah.

Genni: okay. Last one. Most underrated eco-friendly travel hack.

Kelsi Sullivan: This one is funny 'cause it took me a while to think about, even though I do consider myself very eco-friendly, But I think flying nonstop or flying economy, I think that we're just hyper fixated with business class. understandably, like 13 hour flights are literally horrendous.

but you wanna talk about eco-friendly, go somewhere in economy 

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Kelsi Sullivan: carbon emissions are gonna be a fraction of the person taking up three spots in business class. So

Genni: Yeah.

Kelsi Sullivan: think that's my, yeah, just, I mean, just go like, that's a point of travel, right?

Like just go,

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Kelsi Sullivan: an economy,

Genni: [00:46:00] Yeah.

Kelsi Sullivan: physically handle it, just get after it.

Genni: Yeah. I mean, and we're not trying to make anyone feel bad. Like if you're someone who has like anxiety, I know there's a lot of people out there who are like, I get fine anxiety. I need my space. You know, whatever. Like, that's fine. we get that.

Kelsi Sullivan: Totally.

So if you're trying to be eco-conscious,

Genni: Mm-hmm.

Kelsi Sullivan: yo fly nonstop, right? And. Maybe think about economy. economy. I've been way bigger. I've been bigger on economy recently, just 'cause again, flying. Like they keep moving the goalpost. And so I've actually kind of been like, Hey, more if it's a daytime flight, I don't mind economy.

Genni: Same.

Kelsi Sullivan: those red eyes that really, really mess me up at this point in my life. but yeah, I mean like if you can handle it, if it's a daytime trip, like eh, try economy,

Genni: Yeah.

Kelsi Sullivan: eco-friendly,

Genni: Mm-hmm. 

Kelsi Sullivan: I guess as equal friendly as you can get with travel. At least you're [00:47:00] not on like a cruise ship, I guess.

Genni: Yeah, that's true.

Kelsi Sullivan: the

Genni: and honestly, I try to do nonstop. I mean, I probably should think of the, you know, about being eco-friendly more, but I do nonstops just because it's just so much better, like logistically. 

Kelsi Sullivan: way less stressful.

Genni: Yeah, way, way, way less stressful, Well, Kelsey, thank you so much for joining us.

I think this was a really important conversation and I know that I learned a lot and I'm sure the listeners did as well. One more time. Where can everybody find you and Devan?

Kelsi Sullivan: We are at Point Sisters on Instagram. Or you can go to our website, www.pointsisters.com and thank you so much for having me, Genni. Really appreciate it.

Genni: And, I will have that in the show notes as well, but All right, friends, that's a wrap on today's episode. Again, huge thank you to Kelsey from Point Sisters for sharing her thoughtful, real world approach [00:48:00] to traveling with intention, and for showing us how points of Miles can open the door to deeper, more meaningful travel.

I hope this conversation reminded you that responsible travel doesn't have to be complicated.

Small choices add up. And with the help of points of Miles, you can explore the world in a way that feels aligned, affordable, and connected. If you love this episode and more tips to help you travel smarter, not just cheaper, come join us in the Lazy Budget Travel Tips Facebook group. It's where I share daily strategies and answer questions and help you make the most of your points of miles without the overwhelm.

So thanks for listening. And remember, there's no right or wrong way to save money on travel, just the best way that fits your life. Have a good one, guys.