Ponder and Magnify: A Rosary Podcast

S2, E2 - The Resurrection Bible Study (John 20: 1, 11-18)

• John and Jessica Helling • Season 2 • Episode 2

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The mission of the Ponder and Magnify Podcast is to seek an encounter with Jesus through praying the rosary, relying on the grace of the Holy Spirit and the intercession of Mary. Join us as we dive into the First Glorious Mystery of the Rosary! In this episode, Jess, John, and Fr. Archer discuss the account of Jesus' Resurrection from John 20: 1, 11-18. Praise be to God!

Jessica:

Hello and welcome to the Ponder and Magnify podcast, where our mission is to seek an encounter with Jesus through praying the rosary, relying on the grace of the Holy Spirit and the intercession of Mary. I am so happy that you are here. Welcome everybody. Today we are focused on our first Glorious Mystery, the mystery of Jesus's resurrection. I'm joined here again by Father Archer and John and just eager to get into it, excited about this, father Archer, would you mind opening us up in prayer?

Fr. Archer:

I would be happy to. For this opening prayer, I'd like to pray a traditional prayer called the Regina Chele, which means the Queen of Heaven, In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen, Queen of Heaven, rejoice. Alleluia, For he whom you did merit to bear, Alleluia, has risen. As he said. Alleluia, Rejoice and be glad, O Virgin Mary. Alleluia, For the Lord is truly risen. Hallelujah In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Jessica:

Beautiful. John, it's that time again. What is your one word or phrase?

John:

Oh man, the hardest question of the whole podcast. I would say I am feeling very relaxed. Lately work has felt very crazy, very busy, you know in a good way, but has you know, just feeling a little more drained and getting able to sit down, have a good conversation with you guys. I feel relaxed, settled in, and it's a chance to just take it easy and enjoy conversation with you two.

John:

So, father Archer

Fr. Archer:

I would say a sense of spiritual vertigo. I'm afraid of heights and I've made a habit of going to high places to try to overcome this fear, so it's a familiar feeling in some ways. But whenever I approach the resurrection, there's a sense of the magnitude and the depth and profundity of this mystery, that I know there is so much there and I feel like, with all the prayer I've done with it, holy hours through the years and everything, I feel like I've hardly scratched the surface of what's contained within this mystery, and so there's kind of that happy yet solemn anticipation of what may come. Jess, how about you?

Fr. Archer:

What's your word or phrase?

Jessica:

I am feeling really hopeful. I love that we're in our jubilee year of hope, and I just love the hope that the mystery of the resurrection just instills in my heart. And whenever I'm carrying a heavy cross or going, it doesn't even have to be a heavy cross, even just a small daily cross. I just love that, the hope that the resurrection provides. So I'm excited to really think more about that and reflect on that with both of you, and I'm also just appreciative of how much we've been laughing tonight. It's been making me so happy, so I'm just tossing that in too. I'm feeling giggly as well, so we'll go with that. But let's go ahead and jump into this beautiful mystery. Father Archer, would you mind proclaiming our scripture for us?

Fr. Archer:

Absolutely Reading from the Holy Gospel, according to John, on the first day of the week, mary of Magdala came to the tomb early in the morning, while it was still dark, and saw the stone removed from the tomb. But Mary stayed outside the tomb weeping. And as she wept she bent over into the tomb and saw two angels in white sitting there, one at the head and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had been. And they said to her Woman why are you weeping? She said to them they have taken my Lord and I don't know where they laid him. When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus there, but did not know it was Jesus. Jesus said to her Woman why are you weeping? Whom are you looking for? She thought it was the gardener and said to him Sir, if you carried him away, tell me where you laid him and I will take him.

Fr. Archer:

Jesus said to her, "Mary. She turned and said to him in Hebrew, Rabbouni, which means teacher. Jesus said to her Stop holding on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father, but go to my brothers and tell them I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. Mary of Magdala went and announced to the disciples. I have seen the Lord and what he told her, the Gospel of the Lord. Praise to you, lord Jesus Christ.

Jessica:

After taking some time to pause and really let that sink in. John, what stood out to you?

John:

Just how much I can be like Mary of Magdala in this situation where there is grief or stress or even just distraction in my life. Uh, there can be all sorts of signs and signals that are graces that I can miss. That you know otherwise are you know, could be pretty obvious if you can kind of take a step back. Like I think that obviously Mary gets to the tomb and sees that it's open and she's still grieving. And then she sees angels and still it's not like oh my gosh, what's happening? It's still grieving. Where did Jesus go? And then Jesus is behind her and doesn't see that it's him. And just so many times where, yeah, it just seems very applicable, and sometimes, like I said, just mourning something or feeling preoccupied, where, you know, if I take a step back, I can see these little God winks or you know, little nudges or graces that Jesus is there and he's with me.

Jessica:

I love that. I can absolutely relate to that, John, and I love too just how she recognizes Jesus in him speaking her name, and just the feeling of like being met exactly where she is and being known and loved, and just the consolation of hearing her name spoken by the one she loves and she's desperate for. I can't remember what we were listening to, John, or read somewhere about the study where they looked into people's brain activity people's brain activity went like crazy when they heard their name being spoken by someone they loved. Do you remember what that was?

John:

I can't remember where we heard that or saw that, but yeah, it was just. It was talking about the importance of just what it means when people hear their own name being called and to be known.

Jessica:

Yeah, okay, I promise, promise it is some scientific study. It's not something John and I are making up, but just the thought that Mary was having this moment when Jesus spoke her name, that something in her was like coming alive and being recognized and recognizing him, and just that, that is what pulled her out of her grief in that moment, I think is also beautiful, a beautiful piece of that. Father Archer, what stuck out to you?

Fr. Archer:

well It just occurred to me as you were speaking, that the uh, that that grief when there's a loss, that it's it's both the experience of there's someone who knew me in a particular way, who no longer knows me I'll no longer have the experience of being loved in the way that only that person can love me and how that that sense of loss that Mary Magdalene had was just so profoundly reversed, um with the sound of her name. But what kind of stuck out to me is the confusion of the angels. You know you can always read different tones of voice when you're reading the scriptures because we just have the written word. But as I was reading it this time, as the angel said, woman, why are you weeping?

Fr. Archer:

It seems like angels in scripture often kind of treat humans like they assume we should be happy about things, and then they're like kind of catching themselves, like oh, I forgot how fragile you all are. Like at the Annunciation, the angel Gabriel, you know, he greets her hail full of grace and then immediately after that he's like oh, do not be afraid, Mary. And so many times throughout the Old Testament, like when they appear to Daniel, Daniel falls flat on his face and then the angel's like, oh no, you can stand up, we can talk. And then the angel's like, oh no, you, you can stand up. Um, we, we can talk. And so, um, just the great security that the angels have and that like true-hearted delight of the will of God is being done, and how they were confused by the phenomenon of grief, because the resurrection was so real to them.

Fr. Archer:

They're like why are you weeping? Like any human would know. Oh, you're outside the tomb of your friend and you think he's dead. Of course you're weeping, but for the angels it's the fact of the Lord is alive, God is good, all things are in his hand, like there's just nothing that intimidates them. And so, seeing humans that are intimidated by any kind of fear, they just become a little bit confused and they're like what's up with this species? I hope we learn to get along. We'll spend a lot of time together.

John:

Yeah, it's kind of like the two angels looking at each other and being like all right, who's going to tell her

Fr. Archer:

who's going to break the news?

Jessica:

But I love too that is it fair to say, father Archer that angels have, like they have this, more eternal perspective, like they have it, than humans do.

Fr. Archer:

Yes, absolutely so.

Jessica:

I love how, kind of going back to what you're talking about in our introduction episode they're able to see the situation through the lens of the eternal, whereas humans especially me, speaking for myself so often that is a challenge I can get so absorbed in the suffering or the grief or whatever it is that I'm currently going through, and just how refreshing it is to be pulled out of that and view it through the eternal.

Jessica:

It's really beautiful, as you were speaking too in the resurrection stories from all the gospels. To my knowledge Father Archer you're going to correct me if I'm wrong on this Mary, the mother of Jesus, never shows up at the tomb.

Fr. Archer:

That's true.

Jessica:

And I and I'm thinking about that in light of what you're saying she was of course human, so she didn't have the same perspective as the angel, she didn't have this eternal perspective. But we know from what the Holy Spirit says, through Elizabeth at the visitation, that she is the one who believed what the Lord spoke would come true. And so Jesus told his disciples, his apostles, several times before he died and resurrected, that he would rise on the third day. And I just think it's interesting that in these different accounts we have these different women. We have Peter, we have John, we have all these people who are visiting the tomb in grief, in confusion, and yet Mary is not there. Not that she didn't feel very deeply the grief, but I like to imagine that she trusted that the third day was coming and that, though she didn't have the same perspective as an angel, she had God's word in her heart and believed in that so fully that the resurrection was almost alive for her before it was there. Yeah, go ahead.

Fr. Archer:

Yes, that it didn't surprise her.

Jessica:

Yes

Fr. Archer:

And in Luke's gospel, which is, of course, the great Marian gospel, the angels also have a great question, in that that they see the disciples outside the tomb and they say to the disciples why are you seeking the living one among the dead? He is not here, but he has been raised. And then this is the part that was really making me chuckle earlier today when I read it, really making me chuckle earlier today when I read it. Remember what he said to you while he was still in Galilee that the son of man must be handed over to sinners and be crucified and rise on the third day. And so it almost has the feel of a, of like a teacher being like don't.

Fr. Archer:

Don't you remember what we covered in class? That God said that this was going to happen, and now this is happening, so, so why are you humans surprised at it? But with what you're saying, that, of all the humans that would ever exist, um, Mary, within her heart, lived in a way that she didn't have fear. Um, because she, so Mary's perspective would have made perfect sense to the angels that she would just have that confidence and that knowledge that God spoke and what God speaks will come true, whereas we sometimes have fear. But yeah, what comfort in the confusion of angels, totally To know that they can kind of call us out of some of the dark places we find ourselves.

Jessica:

Totally. And what comfort to know we have a guardian angel whose job is to be assigned to us to continually call us out of that and guide us, and that sort of thing too. It's also just fun to imagine if it wasn't recorded in Scripture and Jesus ever did appear to Mary, or Mary even in the resurrection, or Mary even just hearing about Jesus' appearance, her response, she wouldn't need Jesus to speak her name, she would just be like you're here, I knew it, like you're back. Just how she would have received Jesus is a really beautiful thing to imagine and think about, I think.

Fr. Archer:

Yes, there is a story from my parish, a woman who passed away at this point about two years ago.

Fr. Archer:

Her name was Lisa Heap and she had stage four cancer for about five years and then other various situations in her life, different relationships, different things, any one of which for most people would be considered kind of crushing and really hard. And Lisa would spend so much time in the Adoration Chapel. And I distinctly remember one day I was sitting in the back of the chapel and there was something I was grumbling about to the Lord and then Lisa walks in and I was like all right, Lord, I'll be quiet now I know this woman is carrying much more, and yet she lived with such peace. And if you ask Lisa, like Lisa, how are you so happy, how are you filled with peace? She would say well, I just know God takes care of me. And her experience of the risen Lord would come above all in Adoration, which is where Jesus, risen from the dead, continues to dwell. And so she had that Marian heart about her of living without fear despite the hardship of life, because she was living with the risen Lord.

Jessica:

What a beautiful witness. What's sticking out to me here is just an experience I've had over this Lent. I have been on a journey with the Lord this Lent that I was not anticipating for myself, and this gospel from John really makes me think about it, particularly in the way that Mary Magdalene is showing up at the tomb, which is basically a reminder, right in her face, of her pain and grief and for me, so often when I have that, my tendency is to take flight to run, and yet she stays and looks into the tomb like is willing to look into it and not just looking into it without any purpose. She's looking into it with the intention of seeking Jesus and I just have it on my heart from the Holy Spirit to just really share.

Jessica:

So this Lent John got the privilege of going on a retreat and had a great experience there, and when he came back he shared many things. But one of the things he shared with me just in passing, was he heard the story of someone who had been healed, had experienced a physical healing. Someone was praying over this man and asked him do you believe that Jesus can heal you? And this man responded yes, and he had had some sort of knee pain or something. I can't remember exactly what it was, but had received like a complete miraculous healing. And John told me that story and my heart had like a true reaction to it. I just started weeping and I just I knew right away I was like John, this I don't. I don't think I could sincerely answer like, yes, I believe that Jesus can heal me. I don't think I could answer that and I knew right away, coming back to the surface of my heart, was a wound that I've worked through and carried and everything or thought I had really worked through which is a wound from our miscarriage about four years ago in between our first two daughters, and this was what was particularly painful about it was one we were.

Jessica:

We went in for an ultrasound and there was no heartbeat, which caught us completely off guard. But we were the last appointment on Friday and our OB, who's so wonderful was like I want to get this confirmed before we move to any next steps. And the earliest we could get an appointment at the hospital with where he had referred us for confirmation of this was Monday, and so for a whole weekend we were sitting on this and it was just so much grief and anguish but also brought John and I together in a way that no experience in our dating or engaged or marriage had at that point and we just like really fervently prayed together um, we had... Father Archer, what is it called like when someone has like a relic or they like touch something to a relic or touch something to this? Is that like third class or fourth class or something like that.

Jessica:

Okay, we had one of those of Saint Gerard um, who is the patron of pregnant mothers, and I remember like strapping it around my stomach and just praying so intensely over the course of that weekend and when we went to that appointment, that confirmation appointment, just really expecting to hear a heartbeat and just being utterly devastated again in a whole new way, like a second gut punch, that the miscarriage was confirmed and this was obviously like a place of real grief. It's also, oddly, been a place of real blessing for our family and our children who love and adore their sibling in heaven, Judah. But it was just a real painful moment for me where I really was hoping God would show up and it was really expectant of a miracle and didn't receive the miracle that I wanted and I was really feeling this course of Lent that was the tomb, that I was standing by, the tomb in my heart that was feeling desperate and grief and a lot of pain, and my spiritual director encouraged me just keep going there and just try to find Jesus and Mary. They were there in that moment and it reminds me of Mary Magdalene just looking into the tomb looking for Jesus and Mary and I did receive such consolation where I really felt like putting myself back in that room, having John on one side holding my one hand, and I really imagined Mary and Jesus on the other side and Mary just like, stroking my hair, smiling at me, and Jesus holding my hand.

Jessica:

And Jesus, in the gospels, before healing at least once asks the person that he's going to heal, like what do you want? Kind of to in my mind, like invite the person's will into their own healing. And I imagined Jesus at the bedside, like before the ultrasound machine was even turned on. I imagined him inviting me like what do you want, jessica? And I just I said I want this baby to be alive, and he just smiled at me and said he is. And then I said to him but I want to hold him. And Jesus just said to me you will, you will. And I just experienced such consolation in that moment.

Jessica:

It was such a resurrection for me which in my mind, like Lent, is such like a penitential season. It felt like such a gift that this would be a gift of my Lent, would be a healing in this way, and many times since then I've had to remind myself that that was Jesus's word and Jesus's promise to me, when I feel the temptation to really lean into that grief which, like I said, has been kind of upwelling in me unexpectedly again. But there was just one point in Lent in the beginning I was kind of like, oh, I'm going to give up this. Oh no, the Lord's asking me to give up this. Oh, no, the Lord. And I was just kind of being wishy-washy. And finally one day at mass I just after receiving the Eucharist, I was like what do you want me to do this Lent, Lord? And I just really felt like Jesus was saying I want you to let me heal you this Lent. And just such consolation.

Jessica:

I'm just such a person where fear can really influence my heart and my behaviors, and so to be like Mary Magdalene and just stay at the tomb, just like, persist in the pain of it, to seek Jesus, has just been such a gift from the Lord in these last few weeks and just really a testament to his goodness and the fact that he desires our healing and our joy and wants wholeness for us in every way and that the miracle he's going to give us is even better than the miracle that we often are asking for.

Jessica:

And so I just really feel it on my heart to encourage anyone who is facing just any part of their heart that feels like a tomb at this moment to just stay there looking for the Lord, because you've got to stay at the tomb to witness the resurrection. And as I've been praying for this over the course of Lent, I just was reminded that the tomb was in a garden, and as I kept reflecting on this and keep walking with this experience, it no longer even feels like I'm going to the tomb. It's starting to feel like I'm just going to the garden to be with Jesus, the garden where the tomb happens to be. But now it's becoming more and more a place of resurrection for me than a place of grief, and so I just want to encourage you to have faith in the Lord that he will resurrect all the places of your heart that need it, and that is his true desire for you. So, anyway, I just really felt it to share that. John, father Archer, anything left to share.

Fr. Archer:

I just want to mention, with great reverence for what you're sharing there, jess, that these are deep places of the heart, and to share such an intimate and personal encounter with the Lord is such a gift for me to receive and for those who listen. And this is where the gospel becomes real when those places of pain are transformed by abiding with him when it's hard. And so thank you for your generous spirit and being willing to walk there and make a gift of your heart to the listeners on this podcast.

Jessica:

Yeah, absolutely, and thank you, Holy Spirit. Oh goodness, thank you, Lord. Guys, it is such a joy for us to come together to be able to discuss. It bears fruit for each of us, or I should speak for myself. It bears fruit in my own soul just to be here with you, John and Father Archer, and I just pray that it bears fruit for others too. So thank you to both of you and to all those listening we promise to be praying for you and we ask humbly for you to be praying for us. Praise be to God.